Latest / The Christian Reeve Podcast / Understanding Customer Service | The Christian Reeve Podcast #337

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Understanding Customer Service | The Christian Reeve Podcast #337 · The Christian Reeve Podcast

• 0:00
  Hello and welcome to another episode of the Christian Reeve
• 0:03
  Podcast. We are here with a big topic.
• 0:07
  I say we, I am. I'm trying to get guests
• 0:13
  arranged for the show until the end of the year and then who
• 0:17
  knows for next year, But I don't know.
• 0:19
  This is good practice for me to kind of explore an area that I'm
• 0:24
  not as comfortable with. And they always say that you
• 0:27
  should kind of explore your come that come out of your comfort
• 0:31
  zone, so to speak. And it's doing solo episodes.
• 0:35
  I've not done many over the last five years.
• 0:38
  I did, of course, do a show on Patreon for quite some time.
• 0:44
  And I kind of, I canned it in the end because I just didn't
• 0:48
  feel very inspired doing it. I, I never really felt like the
• 0:53
  episodes where it was just me talking were particularly
• 0:56
  interesting. Listeners of the show, viewers
• 1:00
  of the show and people that have checked out YouTube and, and
• 1:04
  such have said otherwise. I mean, it was the inspiration
• 1:07
  for me doing Life with Christian Reeve on Patreon.
• 1:11
  However, I don't know, I, I always try to trust my gut with
• 1:16
  these things. If I feel like something's not
• 1:18
  going well, you know, I give it time to breathe.
• 1:20
  And then I ultimately change course now with the podcast in
• 1:26
  an effort to obviously continue the show and keep it going.
• 1:29
  It kind of forces my hand. You know, if there's not a guest
• 1:33
  arranged for that particular week, I have to just think of
• 1:38
  something. And I don't know, it's not
• 1:42
  really the sort of thing where you can just turn on the camera
• 1:45
  and start talking. You have to plan.
• 1:47
  Or at least, I don't know, maybe maybe some people can just do
• 1:50
  that and make it work. I have done in the past, I've
• 1:55
  winged it a little bit, but I don't feel that those shows can
• 1:58
  never be as strong as a show where you've actually sat down
• 2:01
  and planned it and have something to bring to the table.
• 2:05
  You know, it's like the equivalent of rocking up to to a
• 2:09
  lecture and the lecturer is is just winging it, but he's losing
• 2:14
  the audience. Why is he losing the audience?
• 2:16
  Well, he's not planned, so he's prepared to fail.
• 2:21
  Sometimes you can get away with just jumping between topics and
• 2:26
  kind of just making that work. But for me, I've always felt
• 2:30
  it's best to at least have Cliff notes.
• 2:34
  You know, I call it the wrestling approach, being that
• 2:38
  some of the best promos in the business have often been people
• 2:42
  that don't completely go with this like a script, but they
• 2:46
  have Cliff notes. They have an idea of what the
• 2:49
  promo should be. They've got a rough idea of the
• 2:52
  timing of it because they're obviously they've got a specific
• 2:56
  time slot. They've got to make it work.
• 2:57
  So if let's say the promo is to build up a pay-per-view match
• 3:03
  that is coming that week, they know that they need to build
• 3:06
  some intensity, they need to build some stakes, they need to
• 3:10
  build intrigue into the program. And therefore they might have
• 3:15
  like 3 to 5 minutes to do that, maybe even less time than that.
• 3:19
  So they have Cliff notes. They're going to say this, this,
• 3:22
  this and this. The other person's going to say
• 3:23
  this, this, this and this. And then they either brawl or
• 3:27
  there's, you know, someone gets the last word or there's a stare
• 3:32
  down, whatever. But the point is, as you can
• 3:36
  tell, wrestling fan, there's a structure to it.
• 3:39
  And a podcast I feel is no different.
• 3:42
  I think that over the years I've learned that the more I prepare
• 3:50
  things, the better the outcome. And if you are kind of stuck for
• 3:56
  something to say, you can kind of push the conversation in
• 4:00
  another direction. This show is going to be
• 4:03
  interesting because I've got a bunch of questions prepared, so
• 4:06
  I'm essentially going to interview myself, but I am going
• 4:10
  to wing it as far as, you know, I did originally write down
• 4:13
  notes, but I feel it's too distracting to, to just read
• 4:17
  them verbatim. I, I did that last show, Full
• 4:21
  disclosure, and I tried to make it feel natural and I think I
• 4:25
  did to some extent, but I noticed I just wasn't looking at
• 4:28
  the camera. I wasn't, you know, completely
• 4:31
  focused. And I think that's where you
• 4:32
  begin to fumble a little bit, or at least I do.
• 4:36
  So we're going to wing it a little bit, but we've at least
• 4:39
  got some good questions. And I'm just going to kind of
• 4:42
  breakdown what comes to me throughout the show.
• 4:47
  But a little bit on why I haven't been able to get guests
• 4:49
  recently, I have been reaching out.
• 4:52
  You will get a episode with Josh, Josh Leonard of the
• 4:57
  Pursuit of Infinity podcast some point in December.
• 5:01
  We have arranged that. It's just timings and stuff like
• 5:04
  that. I have a surprise guest that I'm
• 5:10
  working on. I'm just trying to finalise the
• 5:13
  details for that. But it will be huge for the show
• 5:15
  if it does happen again. I'm not promising anything
• 5:18
  because I don't know, you know, it'll only be promised when it's
• 5:21
  happened. And I've always learnt like not
• 5:25
  to get ahead of yourself with these things, you know, don't,
• 5:27
  don't get excited until it's actually happened.
• 5:31
  But for the guests that I have been trying to get on the show
• 5:34
  recently, I had two lined up that were like very different
• 5:38
  and very interesting. And one of them, unfortunately
• 5:42
  her Internet wasn't working and we just couldn't make it work.
• 5:45
  And that really sucked. I have said to her like, hey,
• 5:52
  open platform, please let's reschedule.
• 5:54
  Let's let's make this happen. So hopefully that show will
• 5:58
  happen at some point. If she, if she is able to get
• 6:00
  back to me, if she's changed her mind, so be it.
• 6:05
  I'm used to not getting replies for things.
• 6:08
  That's one thing you learn through doing podcasting is that
• 6:12
  never expect anything, even the basics like an e-mail back.
• 6:16
  Don't don't expect that because you never know how people are
• 6:20
  going to react. You expect everyone to react the
• 6:22
  same way, but they just won't. Which brings me on to the last
• 6:29
  topic before we get on to today's main event.
• 6:33
  I had, I mean, I normally, I depending on like how things go.
• 6:37
  I, I don't normally bring up the behind the scenes unless I need
• 6:41
  to. The reality of podcasting and
• 6:45
  hosting a podcast on your own is that you're always looking for
• 6:50
  guests all the time. The search is never over.
• 6:53
  I've often done the show way in advance if I can.
• 6:58
  Lately I've just I've been I've caught up, you know, I used to
• 7:02
  have like 5 guests lined up. Now I've got no one.
• 7:06
  It's just how it goes sometimes and it's weird though after five
• 7:10
  years, 300 plus guests, it's very strange to be in this
• 7:14
  position. But as I said before, I think
• 7:17
  it's good practice to work on my ability to just do a show solo
• 7:21
  and see where we can go with that.
• 7:25
  I had this guest lined up. The stuff they had to bring to
• 7:31
  the table was interesting. It's not the first time I've
• 7:34
  explored something like that, but I had a lot of questions.
• 7:38
  I had a whole show planned ready for them.
• 7:41
  Comes to the day of recording. Now, here's what happened,
• 7:45
  right? So I always e-mail my guests
• 7:50
  hours and hours before just to kind of see, you know, maybe
• 7:53
  something's come up, maybe something's happened.
• 7:56
  You never know. Unless I know for sure my guest
• 7:59
  will probably show up like I, I typically will just kind of send
• 8:03
  a courtesy e-mail few hours ahead and just be like, hey, are
• 8:06
  you still available for today's show?
• 8:09
  Now I get a lot of guests from the United States, so you have
• 8:13
  to work out the timings. The good one is never is on the
• 8:18
  East Coast because I think there's a smaller gap.
• 8:21
  It's usually about four or five hours.
• 8:22
  So like if it's morning time, say there or midday, it'll only
• 8:27
  be about like 3 or 4 in the afternoon here in the UK.
• 8:29
  So it's not, it's not too bad. However, sometimes you'll get
• 8:33
  like 1 where they're on Pacific Time, so they're on the West
• 8:38
  Coast and the time difference doesn't favour you.
• 8:41
  So it'll be like midday for them, but it'll be like night
• 8:44
  time for me. So I'd arranged to do this show
• 8:47
  night time around 7:00 PM, which I don't know, maybe this person
• 8:52
  didn't appreciate that sacrifice.
• 8:54
  But like, I sacrifice a lot when I do this show.
• 8:56
  Like I don't receive any money to do this show.
• 8:59
  I do extensive research on my guests.
• 9:01
  I prepare a full show. I put aside time, you know, I
• 9:04
  spend 2 hours of my life potentially talking to the
• 9:07
  person and then I spend the rest of the time editing, promoting
• 9:10
  it, doing it all myself. These are all things you have to
• 9:14
  do when you have a podcast. Some people are lucky enough to
• 9:16
  have a team, resources, all these different things.
• 9:19
  I don't have these luxuries. It's just me.
• 9:23
  I'm not looking for sympathy or pity or whatever.
• 9:25
  I'm just saying that I don't know.
• 9:28
  For future reference, anyone that ever comes on the show, if
• 9:31
  you think this is easy, if you think it's just a walk in the
• 9:34
  park, you're wrong. It's a lot of effort.
• 9:37
  And if I mean, there are people out there that just, you know,
• 9:42
  flip on a camera and put their microphone in front of them and
• 9:45
  start talking and call it a show, I don't think that's a
• 9:48
  show. I think a show should have
• 9:49
  structure and be a show like, you know, a television show or a
• 9:54
  radio show or whatever. You know, it should be
• 9:57
  structured. It'd be, it should be something
• 9:59
  that people can follow. They know, like the rough
• 10:01
  segments. Like take today as an example.
• 10:04
  I've not officially called it an intro, but I guess this could be
• 10:07
  the intro every time I start a podcast if I haven't got a guest
• 10:11
  on. You can typically expect me to
• 10:13
  talk a little bit about, I don't know, some stuff that's gone on,
• 10:17
  something relevant. Maybe it's something that's
• 10:19
  unrelevant, unrelevant, irrelevant.
• 10:21
  And you know, just it's a bit of talking, You know, obviously
• 10:25
  we're going to get into the main event, but it's just a little
• 10:28
  bit of a here's what's going on situation.
• 10:32
  So with this guest, I'd given them a three hour e-mail.
• 10:39
  Why did I say it like that? Three hour e-mail?
• 10:42
  Yes, it was. It was a three hour e-mail.
• 10:44
  I emailed them three hours prior to the start of the show.
• 10:49
  That's what happened and no response.
• 10:55
  And I was like, fair enough, maybe they're busy.
• 10:58
  Then I e-mail an hour before the show is about to start.
• 11:02
  No response. Now, typically when that
• 11:06
  happens, I'm anticipating a no show.
• 11:09
  No shows happen a lot in podcasting.
• 11:12
  It's just one of those things. I can't tell you how many people
• 11:16
  over the years have no showed. I think it's somewhere in the
• 11:19
  region of like 20 or 30 people over the last five years.
• 11:23
  Many people will get back to you and be like, hey, sorry this
• 11:27
  happened. But there's a lot of people.
• 11:30
  I'd say the greater majority of that number just never said
• 11:33
  anything, which, you know, look, if you don't want to be on the
• 11:36
  show, just say, you know, just say you're not interested
• 11:39
  anymore. Don't waste my time.
• 11:42
  You know, my time is valuable. Time is the one commodity that
• 11:47
  just goes, you know, money comes, money goes, time just
• 11:49
  goes. I don't want to have my time
• 11:52
  wasted. And yes, I do take it that
• 11:53
  seriously. You know, I, I try to be a fun
• 11:57
  loving guy and, and a bit silly, but there are things in my life
• 12:02
  that I take seriously. And I, I take this very
• 12:04
  seriously because I've sat down and made the effort.
• 12:07
  I expect my guests to do the same.
• 12:11
  So no shows, as far as I'm concerned, are not cool.
• 12:15
  Now, this person didn't know show.
• 12:16
  They just never got back to me. So in my mind, I'm like, well,
• 12:21
  show's probably not happening. Then I'm.
• 12:23
  I'm not hearing anything from this person.
• 12:25
  I've changed my plans. Now I start doing a stream later
• 12:30
  on, I'm in the midst of it. Then I get an e-mail finally
• 12:33
  come through about 15 minutes before the show's about to start
• 12:36
  telling me, yeah, ready to go, let's go.
• 12:38
  Sorry, didn't receive your emails.
• 12:41
  I'm like, well, you've seen them now.
• 12:44
  You've just only gotten back to me now.
• 12:47
  And it's unfortunate, but it's like now I'm no longer available
• 12:50
  because I've not heard from you. So I've change my plans because
• 12:55
  you've not responded. And I think that's totally fair
• 12:59
  and reasonable. I've done this in the past, you
• 13:01
  know, and when a guest has been late coming back to me, there's
• 13:06
  never been an issue with rescheduling.
• 13:08
  Rescheduling is something that happens all the time.
• 13:11
  And the reason I brought this up is that this person was
• 13:13
  incredibly rude to me. And that was the problem in this
• 13:18
  whole situation. I just, I there's not enough
• 13:24
  time in life worth spent on rudeness and people being
• 13:30
  impolite and all of these things.
• 13:32
  Me asking to reschedule a show is perfectly reasonable.
• 13:36
  And just all of the business guests that I've had on a show
• 13:39
  previously have been totally cool with that.
• 13:41
  Many of them have rescheduled last minute.
• 13:43
  I didn't kick up a fuss. I've done the same.
• 13:48
  You know, guests didn't kick up a fuss.
• 13:50
  There's been times when a particular show has been
• 13:54
  rescheduled like 3 or 4 times and it's and then it still
• 13:57
  happened. And guess what?
• 13:58
  It was a good show. If you're not prepared to
• 14:01
  understand that people have, you know, commitments, lives,
• 14:07
  timings different to your own, time zones different to your
• 14:09
  own, then you know you're not living in the real world.
• 14:12
  This person said to me that like they had several meetings.
• 14:16
  I was the fifth meeting of the day, which just, you know, how
• 14:20
  can you not be that self? How can you be so unself aware
• 14:23
  that of of like how small you're making someone feel?
• 14:27
  That was a big issue with the rudeness was it was like he was
• 14:30
  trying to make me feel small. Like, you know, I'm this big
• 14:32
  businessman. I've got all these important
• 14:34
  means. I set aside all this time for
• 14:36
  you and now you're, you know, you're cancelling on me.
• 14:39
  This is, you know, unprofessional.
• 14:40
  And it's like you're completely discounting everything I've said
• 14:44
  to you. And it's only from your
• 14:46
  perspective. One of the things he said was
• 14:48
  that kind of like, don't pin it on me.
• 14:51
  Like I don't want the weight of this cancellation kind of thing.
• 14:54
  Like it's your fault, not mine kind of thing.
• 14:57
  And it's like, well, you know, like you, you, you didn't get
• 15:02
  back to me. I've changed my plans now
• 15:05
  because, you know, I'm not going to sit here and wait forever,
• 15:08
  you know? And here's the thing about when
• 15:10
  you're setting up for a podcast as well, you're sitting down to
• 15:14
  speak for like 2 hours potentially.
• 15:17
  So you need to get in the zone for that.
• 15:20
  I can't get into the zone like with 15 minutes notice.
• 15:23
  Do you know what I mean? Like, it doesn't work that way.
• 15:26
  It just doesn't, you know, if I know an hour ahead, for example,
• 15:31
  the show's happening, I know to like, right, I need to get my
• 15:33
  coffee, get my notes all set up, get everything prepared in the
• 15:36
  background. We're ready.
• 15:37
  We're doing it like right now. I've got everything I need in
• 15:40
  front of me. I've got my notes, got my
• 15:42
  recording here, phones recording here.
• 15:44
  Everything's set up. Just just got to do the show
• 15:48
  now, right? It's a process.
• 15:50
  Maybe I've not spoken about this enough in the past, but it is a
• 15:53
  process. And as with all processes, they
• 15:56
  have different parts, quite extensive parts involved in the
• 16:01
  planning aspect of things. And I think for many guests,
• 16:04
  particularly people that have never done a podcast before, or
• 16:07
  maybe they've just never seen the set up for a show, they
• 16:10
  don't appreciate that. They just see it as like, why
• 16:12
  can't you just be available when I'm available?
• 16:15
  And it's like, well, I was available and you didn't get
• 16:18
  back to me and I emailed you twice and now you're giving me,
• 16:23
  you know, attitude because we can't do it right this second.
• 16:26
  Now, I understand it's frustrating when something
• 16:28
  changes last minute, but then this person is supposed to be a
• 16:31
  business person. Like things change last minute
• 16:34
  all the time in business. It's very common.
• 16:37
  The difference with me is that I will go out of my way to try and
• 16:40
  reschedule something to make it work for that person.
• 16:44
  You know, I can't count how many times over the years I've
• 16:47
  rescheduled to try and accommodate people's schedules
• 16:51
  and in a way that like, inconvenienced me big time.
• 16:55
  Like, I don't want to be doing a show at 7:00 PM at night.
• 16:58
  You know, this person didn't think about that.
• 17:00
  Like, you know, I'd gone out of my way.
• 17:02
  I'd I, I had other things to do that day as well, you know, and
• 17:08
  being told like, oh, you're the fifth meeting of the day I
• 17:10
  rescheduled this, you know, for you, it's like, you're not going
• 17:15
  to make me feel bad about this. You know, this is on you.
• 17:18
  This is your unwillingness to reschedule and be reasonable
• 17:23
  about how things change and also the fact that you didn't get
• 17:26
  back to me. So anyway, they reacted badly.
• 17:30
  They're like, yeah, I'm never, we're never going to be on the
• 17:32
  show. And I'm like, it's really not a
• 17:34
  big loss for me, to be honest. I mean, if anything, that kind
• 17:38
  of gave me an idea of what the show would have been like.
• 17:40
  I mean, if that's the kind of attitude and the response, it's
• 17:43
  like, I don't want to promote your brand and you and give you
• 17:47
  a platform if that's how you're going to be, you know, have a
• 17:52
  look at all the people that have appeared on the show.
• 17:54
  Business guests, very professional, all compose
• 17:57
  themselves very professionally and we had no issues at all.
• 18:02
  So there you go. It's not often that I have an
• 18:05
  issue on the show. There's been a few over the
• 18:07
  years. I've always tried to sort of
• 18:11
  protect my audience from that as much as possible.
• 18:13
  But you know, this, this was one that just kind of irked me
• 18:16
  because it's like, I don't feel that much appreciation goes into
• 18:22
  like podcasting in general and just how much is involved in the
• 18:27
  process. I think it gets overlooked a
• 18:29
  lot. Like the problem I think really
• 18:32
  is that the bad podcasts out there have given podcasting a
• 18:37
  bad name. I can't tell you how many people
• 18:40
  have looked at me weirdly when I said I do a podcast and they're
• 18:43
  like, oh, like red flag, right? And then they hear, oh, you've
• 18:47
  been doing it for five years. Oh, like, you know, I'm serious.
• 18:51
  Not like I'm just some Muppet with a microphone who's just
• 18:54
  sitting there hating on something or trying to clip farm
• 18:57
  or whatever. Like, Nah, like, yeah, I release
• 19:00
  clips. But I the show comes first.
• 19:03
  Everything else comes second. That's how it should be.
• 19:06
  That's how a show, it should always be.
• 19:09
  Like, ideally you're listening to this in the car or you're
• 19:12
  listening to this on the way to work, or, you know, you've got
• 19:16
  it on in the background while you're cooking.
• 19:18
  I don't know. But you, it's a, it's a, it's a
• 19:21
  long form show. It always will be.
• 19:24
  And the beauty of long form shows is you can put them on and
• 19:28
  come back to them and whatever. And that's the beauty of
• 19:30
  structure as well. With a show like this, maybe you
• 19:34
  just needed to kill like 20 minutes and you've successfully
• 19:37
  done that. And you might not even hear me
• 19:39
  talk about customer service now, but it doesn't matter because
• 19:43
  those 20 minutes were all you needed while you were chopping
• 19:45
  vegetables. And now you'll move on to
• 19:48
  eating. Well, no, you got cooked first.
• 19:50
  But you know what I'm saying anyway, But enough of this
• 19:55
  silliness. That's that's why there's not
• 19:59
  been guests a lot lately. I am reaching out to people.
• 20:03
  I am trying. But I guess to the moment, my
• 20:07
  message to the to the audience is that I hope that you're still
• 20:11
  enjoying the show regardless. I hope that you enjoyed the
• 20:15
  previous show. I hope that you enjoy this show.
• 20:19
  I need your help though. If there's anything in
• 20:22
  particular that you would like to hear me speak about, any
• 20:26
  topics, any questions, anything at all, please send it in either
• 20:31
  in the comments on, say, YouTube.
• 20:33
  I think you can do comments on like Spotify now, wherever you
• 20:37
  might be listening to this show. Obviously there's the Discord as
• 20:40
  well. Links are on my website for
• 20:43
  that. Christian reeve.com/links.
• 20:46
  Just like anything you might have, anything you want to hear,
• 20:49
  let me know. It really helps because if I
• 20:52
  know what my audience is kind of more into, I can kind of try to
• 20:57
  cater for that, you know, rather than just throw out what I think
• 21:01
  people might want to hear and what I think might be
• 21:04
  interesting, which, you know, what I think might be
• 21:07
  interesting, might be boring to other people.
• 21:09
  I don't know. Anyway, today's topic, customer
• 21:15
  service. I've spoken about customer
• 21:18
  service over the years. I did a few shows on Patreon.
• 21:22
  I've obviously spoken about it extensively on live streams.
• 21:29
  Most of it has been me complaining, not going to lie.
• 21:33
  But you know, it's not, it's not a career or a job that I ever
• 21:38
  chose. It's something I kind of fell
• 21:40
  into both times that I did it and it just pays the bills.
• 21:45
  But it's not my career. It's just what I have to do to
• 21:48
  get the flexibility that I need in my life to pursue music,
• 21:53
  acting, podcasting and the like. My goal for those who don't know
• 21:58
  is to just make money from creative endeavours and to live
• 22:03
  that way and hopefully one day never ever have to do another
• 22:06
  customer service job again. But you know, what is
• 22:11
  interesting is that anything in life, if you really look at it,
• 22:15
  is always going to have some value.
• 22:19
  And here's the reality. I was talking to someone at work
• 22:22
  the other day about this because I was comparing when I had
• 22:25
  office jobs versus customer service.
• 22:29
  So like for those who don't know, I have a degree in
• 22:32
  marketing. I worked in marketing for years.
• 22:35
  I also did a bit of sales and recruitment.
• 22:37
  So I've kind of seen all the different styles of jobs you can
• 22:40
  have. Like I've worked freelance, I've
• 22:43
  worked as a subcontractor, I've worked obviously directly for
• 22:47
  companies. I've done like just only article
• 22:52
  writing, which comes under the freelance bracket.
• 22:54
  I've of course in, in customer service.
• 22:57
  I've I've done everything from monthly pay by monthly pay,
• 23:01
  casual contracts, part time contracts, never did full time,
• 23:07
  luckily never never fell into that trap, but I've always had a
• 23:13
  variation on a part time or a casual contract as it pertains
• 23:17
  to customer service. Actually, I tell a lie.
• 23:19
  My very first job officially with a contract when I was 18
• 23:24
  was a full time contract in a supermarket.
• 23:27
  And I'd never make that mistake again.
• 23:29
  That that job did teach me a lot about life at an early age,
• 23:34
  mostly about being able to say no to things.
• 23:39
  But yeah, I, I figured this out recently.
• 23:43
  I have 11 years combined customer service experience.
• 23:50
  The first couple of jobs I had in customer service were in
• 23:53
  supermarket retail, clothing retail, and then like hotel
• 24:00
  work. And then I graduated from my
• 24:05
  degree and then I didn't work in customer service again for like
• 24:12
  at least four or five years, I think.
• 24:14
  And then about two years ago, I started doing customer service
• 24:18
  stuff again. And look, let's let's talk about
• 24:21
  the positives before I go into any negatives.
• 24:23
  The positives are the in an office job, you won't get this
• 24:28
  level of flexibility. You just won't.
• 24:30
  If you need like a Wednesday off, a Tuesday off, a Monday
• 24:33
  off, you need a bunch of days off.
• 24:35
  You're not going to get that. You're not going to be able to
• 24:39
  talk to your manager and be like, hey, can I get this time
• 24:42
  off? Unless you've just got the
• 24:43
  world's best manager, most places will be like, you need to
• 24:46
  book holiday or you know, you need to book leave or something
• 24:50
  like that and it can be refused. And you know, you're monitored
• 24:54
  and trapped and you're trapped. You're really trapped in many
• 24:57
  ways. And I know not every employer is
• 24:59
  like this, but in my experience over the years in different
• 25:03
  companies around the world, it's all just kind of throwing the
• 25:06
  book at you when you ask for anything.
• 25:08
  But if they need things from you, you know, nothing is out of
• 25:13
  the way. Nothing is unreasonable to ask
• 25:15
  of you. Whereas in customer service, you
• 25:19
  know, the good, the bad jobs, whatever, everything in between,
• 25:22
  there's always been flexibility. It's very rare that I've had a
• 25:26
  manager turn around to me and be like, I can't accommodate that.
• 25:29
  And these days I just, you know, if I come across a job like
• 25:33
  that, I leave. I've got a good enough CV now, a
• 25:37
  varied CV where I have the capacity to do that and I'm not
• 25:41
  afraid to do that. It is a pain in the arse.
• 25:44
  You should ideally always have work on the go, but if something
• 25:50
  is that bad, you shouldn't subject yourself to it.
• 25:53
  You know, like there's only so much a person can take or should
• 25:57
  be taking. You know, life should not be
• 26:02
  suffering and punishment, you know, for the sake of the
• 26:04
  almighty dollar. But that being said, customer
• 26:07
  service is a lot about enduring, endurance, enduring.
• 26:11
  And you know, whether it be supermarkets, clothing stores,
• 26:19
  hotels, bars, you know, I've done it all and there's a lot of
• 26:23
  similarities between all of those jobs.
• 26:25
  And we'll get into a lot of that today.
• 26:27
  But I just wanted to say like, I am very grateful for anyone over
• 26:31
  the years who's given me an opportunity in customer service
• 26:35
  and has, has enabled me to have the flexibility I need to pursue
• 26:40
  acting and music and stuff. Like no one's ever scoffed at
• 26:43
  that. They've always been really fair
• 26:45
  with me. And I always tried to be fair
• 26:47
  and do the whole, I scratch your back, you scratch mine.
• 26:49
  So like, Hey, can you give me this time off and I'll work this
• 26:52
  weekend and you know, stuff like that.
• 26:54
  I, I think that also that's the best way to approach these kind
• 26:57
  of jobs. Don't just go in there thinking
• 27:00
  like, Oh, I want everything. And you know, you just have to
• 27:03
  accommodate me. Like, no, like it's a business.
• 27:06
  If you look at it for what it is, which is a business.
• 27:10
  I give you this thing, you give me this thing.
• 27:13
  That's fair. And if they're not willing to go
• 27:15
  for that, find somewhere that will.
• 27:19
  So let's start with the questions.
• 27:20
  What do you think most people misunderstand about customer
• 27:24
  service work? Oh, easy that it's easy.
• 27:27
  There's nothing at all that is easy about this job.
• 27:33
  Nothing I think people focus a lot on like what you're doing as
• 27:40
  far as like, OK, I'm going to tables and serving drinks or
• 27:45
  taking orders. I'm at the bar making drinks for
• 27:47
  you. I'm whatever.
• 27:50
  I'm I'm stacking shelves. I'm you know, I'm at the
• 27:54
  checkouts and I'm helping you pay for your goods, whatever.
• 27:58
  Like all of those things are easy to do.
• 28:03
  Like legitimately, like sometimes places will have more
• 28:06
  complex payment systems or maybe they'll be like a long winded
• 28:13
  process for things. But like once you know how to do
• 28:16
  these things, you know, you're basically on autopilot.
• 28:19
  Like when I work BAR, you know, the trickiest thing about BAR
• 28:24
  really is timing, is timing things.
• 28:27
  So for example, you're really, really busy, there's loads of
• 28:29
  people around and you're trying to stay on top of that, but
• 28:34
  you've also got to make sure that you have ice and your ice
• 28:37
  is quickly going down because people keep ordering things.
• 28:40
  Or you can see that everyone's ordering cocktails and you'll
• 28:43
  run out of glasses. So you're going to need to wash
• 28:45
  some glasses. But you also can't ignore the
• 28:47
  people at the at the bar, you know, So you, it's balance, it's
• 28:51
  timing of things. It's trying to kind of see ahead
• 28:54
  with things. And that I think is, is where
• 28:58
  the difficulty comes from, from customer service is the balance
• 29:02
  of things. Like you might see servers in a
• 29:04
  restaurant walking around and think, oh, that's easy.
• 29:07
  I just walk up to tables and I serve.
• 29:09
  But what you're not considering is that let's say that
• 29:13
  restaurant is like like, I don't know, 60-70 covers.
• 29:17
  OK, That means if you've got enough staff, and that's a whole
• 29:22
  other thing, but let's assume you've got enough staff, you'll
• 29:25
  probably have like a person for each section, which means, OK,
• 29:29
  if it's a sixty person restaurant, 60 cover restaurant,
• 29:32
  that means each person has 20 covers that they're dealing
• 29:36
  with. OK, that's potentially 20
• 29:39
  tables. So like you're not the only
• 29:45
  consideration on their mind. There are, you know, 19 other
• 29:49
  people that they've got to look after and they've also got a
• 29:52
  liaise with the kitchen and the bar and make it all work
• 29:56
  smoothly and make sure you're having a good time and clearing
• 30:00
  your table and all these different things.
• 30:02
  And again, timing I'll now people that are good at their
• 30:06
  job don't kind of bend under that pressure.
• 30:11
  But there are things that happen that you don't always see that
• 30:17
  slow the whole process down. So for example, if you get a
• 30:21
  customer that's very difficult, that is just deliberately being
• 30:25
  difficult. We've all seen them, you know,
• 30:26
  the Karens of the world. Also, someone said to me that
• 30:30
  Darren is the male because I'm like, I don't know what's the
• 30:32
  what's the male equivalent of a of a Karen?
• 30:36
  Throw that in the comments down below or or send me a message.
• 30:40
  Let me know what's the male version of a Karen.
• 30:45
  These people slow everything down.
• 30:48
  These people are the reason why your food is being held back,
• 30:52
  because guess what? Your server, They're having to
• 30:55
  deal with this person's problem and nothing will please this
• 30:58
  person. Nothing in the world will ever
• 31:01
  please this person. They just want to moan at
• 31:05
  someone so they can feel better about themselves.
• 31:08
  And you're the target. You're the one who has to take
• 31:10
  the brunt of it. I can't tell you how many people
• 31:13
  over the years have belittled me, have been abusive, rude,
• 31:17
  obnoxious, have sworn at me, have kicked up a fuss, just been
• 31:22
  unbelievably disrespectful and we just have to find a way to
• 31:25
  put up with it and get through it.
• 31:27
  That's a big part of customer service.
• 31:30
  If you think that that's easy, I welcome you to come and work in
• 31:34
  customer service today. I don't think you'd last the day
• 31:37
  if you had to do it. For anyone that thinks it's
• 31:39
  easy, I've often thought that customer service is a lot like
• 31:44
  balancing plates. Remember that spinning plates
• 31:47
  thing that you did as a kid? It's like that.
• 31:51
  And if one of those plates smashes, guess what?
• 31:53
  It's entirely your fault, even though it isn't.
• 31:56
  You know, it's a team effort and sometimes things happen,
• 31:58
  mistakes happen. The way that the judgement comes
• 32:02
  down on you from the customer perspective is you know, you're
• 32:06
  the worst thing ever. Like how dare you make a
• 32:09
  mistake. But you just have to kind of
• 32:13
  like, after years of doing this, you just kind of just, you move
• 32:17
  past all of that and you and you start to understand how to
• 32:21
  approach this, this work and you figure out that you're in charge
• 32:27
  of the service, not the customer you dictate.
• 32:30
  And you kind of have to be a bit of an arsehole sometimes with
• 32:33
  them and be blunt with them and match their energy if that's
• 32:37
  what it takes. Yeah, don't ever take crap.
• 32:41
  Doesn't matter if you're working in customer service, you know,
• 32:43
  don't take crap from anyone. But there's a polite way to do
• 32:46
  it. Question #2 How does it feel to
• 32:50
  admit that you hate this line of work and yet rely on it for
• 32:53
  survival? I've often been pretty open
• 32:55
  about my feelings with customer service.
• 32:57
  I've even told customers over the years, I've never let it
• 33:01
  affect my work ethic. Just because I hate something
• 33:05
  doesn't mean that I'm going to make it a bad experience.
• 33:09
  For the people that have come in there, they're just coming in
• 33:11
  there to eat their food or have a drink or have a nice
• 33:14
  experience. You know, they spent their hard
• 33:16
  earned money and I believe in making a good service.
• 33:19
  That's what the job is. The job is to deliver customer
• 33:22
  service and and to do it well. If you talk about like
• 33:27
  hospitality, the best way it was explained to me was imagine you
• 33:31
  are inviting someone into your home.
• 33:33
  How would you treat them? You'd go out of your way to make
• 33:36
  them feel at home, to make them feel respected, to make them
• 33:39
  feel like it's their space as well.
• 33:42
  A restaurant, a bar is no different.
• 33:45
  That's exactly how you should make people feel.
• 33:48
  You should make them feel welcome.
• 33:50
  And if you don't make them feel welcome, you're not doing your
• 33:52
  job properly. I, I try not to let it be a, you
• 34:01
  know, there's been times when I've really struggled with
• 34:03
  customer service and I've let it be known and, you know, people
• 34:06
  are like, why don't you just quit?
• 34:08
  And I'm like, I wish I had that luxury.
• 34:12
  But most, I think most people in customer service get it.
• 34:14
  Most people are like students or people like myself, like
• 34:18
  creatives trying to just figure out how to make things work and
• 34:23
  get to the next level or, you know, people that are in between
• 34:27
  jobs and they just kind of fell into customer service.
• 34:30
  And then and then you've got the career people and they're a
• 34:33
  mixed bag. You've got awesome people that
• 34:35
  love it and you know, they're just, it's just their career and
• 34:37
  that's fine. You've got people who are
• 34:39
  resentful and will take it out on you for some reason, I think
• 34:45
  probably out of jealousy. But then it's like, you know,
• 34:50
  you, everything in life is a choice.
• 34:51
  Like you, even when you feel trapped, like you can still make
• 34:54
  an effort to get out of the situation you're in.
• 34:57
  Like look at me now, like I'm working this evening and I'm
• 34:59
  doing a podcast right now and after this I'll do auditions,
• 35:03
  you know, like make use of your free time any and all time.
• 35:06
  When I hear people say they don't have any time, that's a
• 35:09
  lie. Like unless you're a full time
• 35:11
  carer for someone and you're working or you know, you've got
• 35:15
  disabilities that prevent you from doing things or you know,
• 35:18
  like some big thing, major thing in your life, it's actively
• 35:20
  taking your time. If you're just working like a
• 35:23
  nine to five or whatever, there's time in the day.
• 35:26
  Even if it's just half an hour after work, we'll use that half
• 35:30
  an hour every day. You know, that adds up and
• 35:33
  that's something you can do. That's time well spent that can
• 35:37
  be put towards your dreams and what you really want to achieve.
• 35:43
  I don't it's interesting the way this question is worded.
• 35:47
  Like how does it feel to admit that?
• 35:49
  Like I don't feel anything. I just think it's the truth, you
• 35:53
  know? I don't, I don't hate like I
• 35:57
  don't look down on customer service in the way that society
• 36:01
  seems to. I've never looked down on it.
• 36:04
  Actually, when I was younger, I did like not as in I didn't look
• 36:11
  down on it like as a concept. I looked down on the idea of
• 36:14
  taking a job in customer service, which was, you know, I
• 36:17
  was young. I was like 18 at the time and
• 36:19
  I'd worked in customer service before as well.
• 36:21
  Like I, I did, I worked as a Saturday assistant for my dad
• 36:26
  because he's a Barber. So I'd worked in customer
• 36:29
  service before. So it was really stupid at the
• 36:31
  age of like 17, going on 18 to even have that opinion.
• 36:35
  Like there were, you know, I needed to get a job at the time.
• 36:38
  And, you know, there were jobs like working at Subway and I was
• 36:41
  just like, for some reason, like above doing that.
• 36:45
  And Oh my God, that job working in a supermarket humbled me in a
• 36:51
  big way. And thank God it did.
• 36:54
  Because within six months, like you forget all of that, like
• 36:57
  you're now you're, you're in it, you're in the job and you're
• 37:01
  understanding exactly what customer service is and what it
• 37:05
  takes from you and what it requires from you.
• 37:08
  And you know, after that, I, I never really ever thought about
• 37:12
  it again. I just thought this is, this is
• 37:14
  a job like any other and it's a hard job.
• 37:16
  It's not easy. And I think that's the reason
• 37:19
  I've always been able to reliably get customer service
• 37:23
  jobs and keep them for, for for a long time, because I can deal
• 37:27
  with the pressure and all of the tough parts of it without
• 37:31
  crying, crumbling, you know, never coming back.
• 37:35
  Like I, you know, you show up and you get it done and yeah,
• 37:37
  you don't know what you're walking into.
• 37:39
  Some days it's bliss and you have an easy day.
• 37:42
  Other days it's like you've walked into hell and it's just
• 37:46
  hell. From the minute that you walk
• 37:48
  into the minute you leave, that's the job.
• 37:51
  And that is what people, I think going back to the previous
• 37:54
  question about, you know, thinking it's easy.
• 37:57
  Like imagine you come home and you're emotionally, physically
• 38:00
  just burnt out from this job. You've been on your feet all
• 38:04
  day. You've been running around,
• 38:05
  you've been abused by people. Maybe you've got a sucky
• 38:09
  manager. I don't know, like you're
• 38:11
  getting attacked from all ends, right?
• 38:14
  That's easy. Is it really, come on, as far as
• 38:20
  like survival? I mean, it's, it's minimum wage.
• 38:25
  If you look at the state of the UK right now, the UK is in one
• 38:29
  of the worst economic situations it's been in for quite some
• 38:33
  time. You know, I, I live within my
• 38:37
  means. I never have money to buy myself
• 38:39
  new things. That's like a pipe dream a lot
• 38:42
  of the time. Most of the time I'm trying to
• 38:45
  defeat debt or something. I'm trying to survive.
• 38:48
  I'm trying to juggle things. It's very difficult to survive
• 38:52
  on customer service wages. I try to make it work.
• 38:56
  I try to be sensible with money, but everything's expensive and
• 39:00
  it's only going up in price. And customer service wages are
• 39:05
  always pitifully low. They're just minimum wage, and
• 39:09
  minimum wage never really goes up.
• 39:11
  Like it goes up with inflation, marginally.
• 39:15
  Some, you know, say retailers and hotels will pay a little bit
• 39:19
  more, but you know, you're talking about an extra # which,
• 39:23
  yes, it does add up, but often it's only like an extra tenner
• 39:26
  here and there, which over the course of a month does add up,
• 39:29
  you know, but then it gets eaten by tax.
• 39:31
  So, and that's the thing as well, you get taxed so much in
• 39:35
  customer service, even though you're at the bottom end and
• 39:37
  you're adding peanuts, you get taxed like crazy.
• 39:42
  So, yeah, talk about that for survival.
• 39:45
  What do you want listeners, especially fellow workers, to
• 39:48
  take away from your stories? I, I think I just kind of want
• 39:55
  to give like a balanced breakdown of what it's really
• 39:58
  like to work in customer service, the good and the bad
• 40:02
  and the ugly. I guess there's going to be,
• 40:04
  look, I'm not going to lie, there's going to be a lot of
• 40:06
  negativity in this. Well, hopefully there'll be some
• 40:10
  positivity. I've tried to kind of push
• 40:12
  forward the good parts of it, you know, as well.
• 40:17
  But yeah, I, I, I think that I, I want listeners to just gain an
• 40:22
  understanding, you know, if you've never worked in customer
• 40:25
  service, maybe this will be a good eye opening experience for
• 40:30
  you, for fellow workers. I guess it's that that feeling
• 40:36
  of relatability, you know, there'll be people listening to
• 40:38
  this, watching this going, oh, yeah, no, I that's my life.
• 40:43
  You know, that was my life. And I guess I just want to say
• 40:47
  like, you know, you're not, you're not alone.
• 40:49
  And to hang in there, it can, it can get better.
• 40:53
  So, yeah, what's the hardest part about working in customer
• 40:58
  service? I think that really depends.
• 41:02
  I mean, in my experience, people make the place.
• 41:08
  If you've got a good team and a good manager, a good set of
• 41:11
  managers, then the only thing you're really dealing with is
• 41:14
  difficult customers. And if you've got that kind of
• 41:17
  team where you're close knit and you know you can rely on each
• 41:20
  other, you don't even have to be friends necessarily, but if
• 41:24
  there's respect and you can rely on each other and trust each
• 41:26
  other, you're going to be fine. You can kind of deal with
• 41:29
  anything and look, especially when it comes to work in bar,
• 41:33
  working in a restaurant, you know, whatever.
• 41:36
  If it's, if it's hospitality, customers are very tough in that
• 41:42
  environment. Because when I worked in retail,
• 41:44
  like you could kind of get away from it.
• 41:46
  I could do things like make an excuse and go to the back, go to
• 41:50
  the warehouse. I could get away from these
• 41:51
  people when it's front of house, when it's working in a bar or a
• 41:57
  restaurant, you can't really get away from those people.
• 41:59
  Like, you can try and hang out in the kitchen for a bit, but
• 42:01
  like, your place is on the floor serving people in front of
• 42:05
  people. Yeah.
• 42:06
  You're the face of the business. And, you know, sometimes there's
• 42:12
  that old expression. I hate it so much, killing with
• 42:15
  kindness. Like try to just be overtly nice
• 42:18
  when someone's being so rude and abusive to you.
• 42:21
  And I've tried it to varying degrees over the years.
• 42:24
  Some people feel bad and apologize.
• 42:26
  Most people just get even more aggressive.
• 42:30
  I, I just try to match people's energy really and be polite, but
• 42:34
  not take crap from people. But yeah, it's, it's been a
• 42:40
  mixed bag. I've had some fantastic
• 42:42
  managers. I've had managers that made my
• 42:44
  life a living hell and, and you know, made every single day
• 42:48
  miserable. There's been times when I've
• 42:50
  like dreaded coming into work because of people I've had to
• 42:53
  work with or work for. So that's a big part of it when
• 42:58
  it comes to customers, like most people are fine, you know, so
• 43:08
  you, you're not worried about like if every customer is
• 43:11
  horrible, then it would be, you know, you'd always be anxious,
• 43:14
  right? But most people were pretty
• 43:15
  reasonable and decent. And you know, many of them have
• 43:19
  worked in customer service. So they get it or, you know,
• 43:22
  they're just, they're just respectful human beings.
• 43:24
  So it's probably like one in 10 that's going to be difficult,
• 43:29
  right? And you can, you can kind of
• 43:30
  sense it when it's going to happen.
• 43:32
  Like there's a shift in the energy, the way they act, their
• 43:37
  body language, everything just suggests problem, problem
• 43:41
  person. Obviously that can be to a
• 43:44
  varying degree. Sometimes.
• 43:45
  Look, sometimes people have had a bad day.
• 43:48
  You know, there's been times when I've I've seen someone's
• 43:52
  clearly agitated and annoyed, but they're not annoyed at me,
• 43:56
  they're just annoyed at the situation.
• 43:58
  And you try to just be like respectful and sympathetic,
• 44:02
  right? Then there's people that take
• 44:03
  things out on you like it's all your fault and I don't accept
• 44:07
  that. Even if it is our fault, you
• 44:10
  know, there's a way to go about things.
• 44:12
  I'm still a human being, you know, I deserve respect.
• 44:15
  I don't deserve abuse and I won't take it.
• 44:18
  And I don't think anyone should. In customer service, that's
• 44:21
  always been a contention point for me with managers over the
• 44:24
  years that expect you to just deal with that.
• 44:26
  I'm like, no, I, if, if you expect me to deal with abuse, I
• 44:30
  will walk out. I'm not paid to be abused.
• 44:33
  I'm paid to deliver customer service.
• 44:35
  Let's make that abundantly clear.
• 44:38
  But that, that will be the hardest thing.
• 44:40
  I would say the hardest aspect of, of working in customer
• 44:44
  service is the people because they can make or break the
• 44:46
  situation. Other than that, there's other
• 44:50
  things like, you know, if you're understaffed, you're doing the
• 44:53
  work of more people. And that is quite like, you
• 44:58
  know, it's happening and you know how it should be.
• 45:01
  And there's more pressure and obviously get more complaints
• 45:04
  because things aren't happening the way they should be, but
• 45:07
  there's nothing you can do about it.
• 45:09
  And that's a time when you begin to see that, like, people can be
• 45:13
  really unsympathetic when they can see that you're struggling
• 45:16
  and can see that you're understaffed, and yet they still
• 45:19
  decide to be really mean. Like, what do you do with that?
• 45:23
  How do you deal with that? Like, I don't know.
• 45:28
  And it is what it is. Let's move on.
• 45:32
  Can you describe a typical day on the job?
• 45:33
  The chaos, the rhythm, the people.
• 45:37
  I mean, it's varied. Obviously in every job I've
• 45:41
  done, every job I've ever done, there's always kind of like
• 45:44
  structure in the day. Like when it was retail, it
• 45:47
  would have been morning delivery.
• 45:49
  Get the main things that need to go out straight away out and
• 45:54
  then throughout the day kind of just picking and sourcing areas
• 45:57
  that need to be addressed and you know, any, any things that
• 46:04
  come up on that day. And then obviously checkouts was
• 46:06
  a big thing where it would kind of like halt everything that you
• 46:11
  were doing and it would cause backups in what you were doing.
• 46:16
  Because, you know, you one minute you're doing this cage
• 46:20
  and you're trying to get all this stuff out on the shelf.
• 46:22
  The next minute you're stuck on a checkout for an hour.
• 46:24
  And apparently it's your fault for not having got the work
• 46:27
  done, even though you physically can't be in two places at once.
• 46:32
  I'm not bitter, ladies and gentlemen, but I do resent a
• 46:36
  little bit the the things that they would put on my shoulders
• 46:41
  at age 1819 that were not my fault.
• 46:45
  They really do, like some places really do try to manipulate
• 46:48
  people and gas like you. It's one thing that I always try
• 46:52
  to address whenever I'm working somewhere and like a new, like a
• 46:56
  kid comes in, you know, they're 1819 or they're in their early
• 47:00
  20s and they've never worked in this.
• 47:02
  I always try to kind of give them the like the actual
• 47:06
  breakdown of how things are and what to avoid because I don't
• 47:09
  want them to like be treated how I was treated because it sucks
• 47:12
  when that happens when it comes to hospitality, you know, I
• 47:19
  mean, it's, it's you got your standard breakfast, lunch,
• 47:22
  dinner, you know, and depending on the set ups that you have, it
• 47:26
  will require different things from you.
• 47:27
  Like there's buffets, there's a la carte restaurants.
• 47:31
  Typically when you come in, it will be like prep, get ready,
• 47:35
  serve, clear, serve, clear, serve, clear, end of service.
• 47:40
  And then, you know, you carry on as normal, right?
• 47:44
  Some places are open continuously and so you kind of
• 47:47
  have to have a continuous clean as you go kind of policy.
• 47:51
  And but you always have like people coming in doing different
• 47:55
  shifts and stuff and people, your team will be split based on
• 47:59
  said fact. You know, it really just depends
• 48:04
  where you are as far as like the chaos and the rhythm.
• 48:08
  I mean, there are certain times, like I said, that you'd expect
• 48:10
  it to be busy depending on where you're working.
• 48:13
  So if you're working in a hotel, you can expect checking the
• 48:16
  checking in time to be like really, really busy.
• 48:21
  Maybe also check out depending on what system you have.
• 48:24
  You know, if you've just got like a drop your card thing,
• 48:26
  then you're not going to be busy.
• 48:27
  But if you have to physically check out, then you can expect
• 48:31
  check out to be a busy time too. And check out for most hotels
• 48:35
  tends to be like around midday or you know, 11 AM where
• 48:41
  checking into a place might be like 3:00 in the afternoon or
• 48:44
  something like that. So it's, it's, it's tricky, but
• 48:50
  at the same time, I think structure is useful because you
• 48:54
  kind of know how to adjust yourself and when you know when
• 49:00
  it's going to be busy and when it's not.
• 49:01
  And what I've always done over the years is I, you know, I
• 49:04
  don't rush around unless it's absolutely necessary.
• 49:09
  So like I do things at allegedly pace, you know, I don't like
• 49:14
  slack, but I, I don't run around when it's quiet, you know, I, I
• 49:18
  make sure things are done and ready.
• 49:20
  So if there's a lot to prep, like you might see me running
• 49:22
  around, but if there's not a lot to prep and it's just a waiting
• 49:26
  service times, then yeah, it's chill.
• 49:28
  I'm chatting to people, I'm not really doing much.
• 49:30
  And then as soon as the old expression goes, shit hits the
• 49:35
  fan. Yeah, speed up, start getting on
• 49:38
  it, jumping into things and observing.
• 49:41
  I think a big thing with customer service, especially
• 49:43
  with like hospitality and stuff like that, is you need to be
• 49:46
  observing everything that's going on and looking at like
• 49:49
  sort of problem areas. Like do we need some more
• 49:52
  servers on this till? Oh, there's a bunch of tables
• 49:55
  that are messy and need to be cleaned and, and, you know,
• 49:58
  refreshed and everything. If you're at the bar, you know,
• 50:01
  you've got to field the cheques that are coming in from the
• 50:04
  restaurant, but also the cheques at the bar.
• 50:08
  Any, you know, any customers that are waiting there, maybe
• 50:10
  they need drinks, food, maybe they need some assistance.
• 50:14
  You know, it's a juggling act is what it is and you need to be
• 50:21
  engaged and focused and on it. And that I think maybe is is one
• 50:26
  of the toughest parts of it. Like that takes a lot of energy
• 50:29
  to just have the energy to just be like fixed in and focused and
• 50:39
  and not make mistakes. It's it's hard.
• 50:42
  What's 1 moment that made you lose faith in humanity or laugh
• 50:47
  at the absurdity of all? If I had a pound coin for every
• 50:51
  time that something like that has happened, I'd be a
• 50:54
  millionaire. I can't think of anything
• 50:58
  specific, but like there's been many times over the years when
• 51:02
  people have been so rude that like, it was shocking as far as
• 51:11
  like lose faith in humanity. I mean, I remember times I
• 51:14
  remember Christmas time was interesting because I remember
• 51:18
  like when I worked in a supermarket, Christmas time was
• 51:21
  supposed to be this like happy time, right?
• 51:23
  Like people getting their food for Christmas presents.
• 51:26
  Yay. But people could not have been
• 51:28
  ruder if they tried. Like it was actually worse at
• 51:30
  Christmas. So I dreaded that time of year.
• 51:34
  And I think one of the craziest ones I can think of off the top
• 51:38
  of my head was, it was just surreal really.
• 51:43
  There was a guy that came in one day and he'd like lost his
• 51:46
  umbrella or something. And I, I recognized him because
• 51:51
  he's a guy. He was a guy that had screamed
• 51:53
  at me about like, what was it change or something?
• 52:00
  Like I've never been good at maths.
• 52:02
  I suck at maths, right? So I'm a bit slower when it
• 52:04
  comes to counting. I can count.
• 52:06
  But this was like before the days when the till would tell
• 52:08
  you specifically what change to give.
• 52:11
  So, you know, forgive me for not being a maths wizard.
• 52:16
  And he gave me more money than I needed.
• 52:19
  And I said that and he was like, yes, of course.
• 52:21
  Are you an idiot or something? I want my change back.
• 52:24
  That's why I gave you that. And I was like, oh, and another
• 52:27
  reason why I hesitated is because in retail there were
• 52:32
  scams and people that would go around and deliberately like
• 52:36
  because we were told not to give cash back.
• 52:38
  That was a big thing we were told not to do.
• 52:40
  You'll see a lot of supermarkets do, but some don't.
• 52:44
  And it's because there is this like running scam.
• 52:46
  And I don't, can't remember exactly how it works, but it's
• 52:49
  like something to do with the flow of money and you can get
• 52:52
  caught out where they end up getting more money than they
• 52:54
  should because they keep asking for like cash back or something.
• 53:00
  I can't remember exactly how it works, but I was wary of that.
• 53:03
  OK, so he'd like screamed in my face like I was a piece of shit
• 53:09
  on the floor for that. And he came in like 2 weeks
• 53:12
  later and he'd lost his umbrella apparently.
• 53:16
  And that was, of course, you know, the end of the world, a
• 53:20
  very, very important moment in his life that demanded that
• 53:23
  everyone stop what they were doing because this man has lost
• 53:27
  his umbrella. So apparently he put it to a
• 53:31
  side or something. And he'd asked, hey, has it been
• 53:35
  given in? And I said, I'll find out for
• 53:37
  you. And at the time, it was very
• 53:39
  busy. It was Christmas time.
• 53:41
  So, you know, didn't really have time to go around on a fucking
• 53:47
  Easter egg hunt trying to find his umbrella.
• 53:50
  But at the same time, it's customer service.
• 53:52
  This customer has asked for something and despite him being
• 53:55
  rude, in that moment, he wasn't being rude.
• 53:58
  So I tried to help him. I looked everywhere downstairs.
• 54:03
  I looked everywhere upstairs. I asked several managers if it
• 54:06
  had been handed in. I did everything I could do.
• 54:09
  This umbrella was not there. So I came back to him to give
• 54:13
  him the bad news and of course he flipped at that.
• 54:16
  He was like abusive and just shouting and screaming at me and
• 54:19
  he was like I want to speak to a manager.
• 54:22
  So of course I went and got the manager and the manager comes
• 54:25
  over. Now this is where it gets
• 54:27
  surreal. So I've got the the duty manager
• 54:29
  to the right of me and the rude man to the left of me.
• 54:32
  Now I'm standing there in case I need to, I don't know, tell the
• 54:38
  manager what's happened. Like I gave her a Cliff notes,
• 54:40
  but maybe she needs more information from me.
• 54:42
  Maybe I might be asked to do something in response to this in
• 54:47
  just a moment, like I don't know, I'm there in the moment in
• 54:49
  case I'm needed. The guy turns and looks at me
• 54:55
  and goes, this is a private conversation.
• 54:58
  And I just, I was just stunned by the level of rudeness.
• 55:02
  And I turned and looked at the duty manager and she, she didn't
• 55:06
  smirk exactly, but she kind of gave that look like, yeah, I
• 55:08
  know this guy's an arsehole. And she just said to me
• 55:11
  politely, like, I'll catch up with you in a bit, Christian.
• 55:15
  And we did in the end, and it was sorted.
• 55:17
  But yeah, he was, he was an arsehole.
• 55:20
  And if you consider the fact that like this would have been a
• 55:22
  guy in his mid 40s screaming at like a 19 year old kid, I think
• 55:26
  it does kind of put it into perspective, especially when
• 55:30
  said kid was just trying to help him out.
• 55:33
  You know, I wasn't like some scrawny kid who just didn't
• 55:37
  care. Like I was trying to help and he
• 55:39
  was so rude. And it's interesting like how
• 55:41
  things stay with you. I mean, look, I'm 32 now and I
• 55:45
  remember that as clear as day. I can remember so many things
• 55:48
  over the years of people being unreasonable.
• 55:51
  Like, one, for example, that stands out to me is when I was
• 55:54
  working, when I was at uni, I worked at this four-star hotel
• 55:59
  and we had like this beautiful site that was overlooking like a
• 56:03
  river. So we had like outdoor seating.
• 56:05
  And it was really, really nice in summer.
• 56:07
  And people would obviously sit outside and not really sit
• 56:11
  inside because it was like almost like a greenhouse in the
• 56:16
  sun, in the sunshine. Like if you're in that part,
• 56:19
  you'd be like boiling. So you wouldn't want to be
• 56:21
  there. Anyway.
• 56:25
  These people sat down on like a sofa.
• 56:27
  There was no tables available for them and they were like, oh,
• 56:31
  can you not just find some? And I'm like, no, like we have a
• 56:34
  set seating plan. We've added more tables from
• 56:37
  another restaurant. This is all we have.
• 56:39
  Like, obviously everyone wants to sit outside.
• 56:41
  It's a sunny day and I'm not being funny, But when you're
• 56:44
  walking past the place and it's clearly completely packed, what
• 56:49
  would you normally do? You'd normally like keep
• 56:52
  walking, right? I, I understand it's annoying,
• 56:55
  but like, look, you're not the only person who's had the idea
• 56:59
  on a sunny day, like, oh, maybe let's go sit at somewhere nice
• 57:02
  and have some drinks. Like you're not the only person
• 57:04
  that's had that idea. So expect it to be really busy.
• 57:08
  Now, I understand if you've got like a specific booking or, you
• 57:12
  know, if you really wanted to go to this particular place, I get
• 57:16
  it. I understand.
• 57:18
  But you also have to use your eyes and be reasonable and
• 57:23
  understand that you might have to wait for a minute or maybe
• 57:26
  half an hour or maybe longer. Because maybe those people that
• 57:29
  sat outside in the nice sunshine are not going to move because
• 57:34
  they're enjoying themselves and they've been there longer than
• 57:36
  you and they have no intention of leaving.
• 57:41
  So in addition to that, I said like I'll do my best to try and
• 57:45
  find them some seats. But also I was serving, I don't
• 57:48
  know, like 50-60 odd tables along with one other colleague.
• 57:52
  So it's not my only priority. It's on a list of priorities,
• 57:56
  right? This couple sits down inside
• 57:59
  waiting to be seated. And in that time other tables
• 58:04
  get seated. OK, I might have even seated a
• 58:06
  table myself. I can't remember.
• 58:08
  But we're serving food. We're serving endless drinks.
• 58:11
  I'm making drinks myself because I'm a trained barista and
• 58:15
  bartender. So you'd often end up kind of
• 58:18
  doing all these different things.
• 58:19
  Sometimes I even prepped food myself.
• 58:21
  Like there was a lot of things that you ended up doing as part
• 58:24
  of the job. Point is, I was always really,
• 58:27
  really busy doing things and basically they pulled me aside
• 58:31
  at one point and had a go at me and said, Oh, other people have
• 58:34
  been seated before us. You said you were going to get
• 58:36
  us this. And I was like, listen.
• 58:37
  And I tried to be really polite to them.
• 58:39
  I was like, it's a really busy day.
• 58:42
  It's I tried to explain that it's kind of first come, first
• 58:44
  serve, Like if you see a table and it's free, like take it like
• 58:48
  they, they just wanted me to like basically stop everything
• 58:51
  and just wait until, you know, people have left And then, you
• 58:56
  know, go out of my way to like make sure that they get seated.
• 58:58
  And it's like, I don't have the time or the resources to do
• 59:03
  that. I will, of course, like if I see
• 59:05
  an opportunity and I can see them, like, great, I'm going to
• 59:08
  do that. But like the world doesn't
• 59:10
  revolve around you. And that's the problem with a
• 59:12
  lot of customers that are rude and obnoxious is they think the
• 59:16
  entire fucking world revolves around them and they get annoyed
• 59:19
  when you won't treat them as such.
• 59:21
  And it's like, grow the fuck up, grow the fuck up.
• 59:27
  The world does not revolve around you.
• 59:30
  Be reasonable. You know, I, I most people that
• 59:35
  you see working in customer service will go out of their way
• 59:38
  to try and accommodate you and be there for you.
• 59:41
  Now, the other side is also equally unacceptable.
• 59:45
  If if you see a place and like the staff don't care and they
• 59:48
  just don't care about you and they're ignoring you, absolutely
• 59:50
  admonish them. Destroy that place in the
• 59:52
  reviews. Absolutely, because that's
• 59:54
  unacceptable as well. I'm talking about the instances
• 59:57
  where everyone's working their arse off.
• 1:00:00
  Everyone is running around like a headless chicken and is
• 1:00:02
  stressed and has like sweat pouring out of them of their
• 1:00:07
  orifices. And like, you know, I had like
• 1:00:09
  drinks poured down me and everything.
• 1:00:11
  Like I'm a mess and you're going to have a go at me and say that,
• 1:00:15
  you know, I'm ignoring you and I don't care.
• 1:00:17
  Like, does this look like a guy that doesn't care?
• 1:00:20
  I'm running around like my shoes are worn.
• 1:00:24
  Stains all over me. I'm running around like a
• 1:00:26
  headless chicken. I'm trying to serve all of these
• 1:00:28
  hundreds of people and you're saying I don't care.
• 1:00:31
  Well, fuck you. It's my response to everyone
• 1:00:34
  who's ever said that fuck you. And if you don't get it, then
• 1:00:39
  you just don't have. I don't know a soul as far as
• 1:00:45
  I'm concerned, like have some empathy, be sympathetic,
• 1:00:48
  understand this is not an easy job.
• 1:00:50
  You know, I completely understand being disappointed at
• 1:00:53
  service levels, not being good. But I'd say like 80% of the time
• 1:00:58
  when you go out, like people don't choose to work in customer
• 1:01:02
  service because they love it. Like there's, there's a, there's
• 1:01:04
  a handful of people that are committed and, and love
• 1:01:07
  hospitality and more power to them.
• 1:01:09
  You know, if if that's your passion in life, you go for that
• 1:01:12
  man. For everyone else, it's
• 1:01:14
  something you end up kind of falling into and it's hard.
• 1:01:18
  It's hard to be good at it and make it work and not let it
• 1:01:23
  completely burn you out. I mean, it happens even to
• 1:01:26
  passionate people that in the industry.
• 1:01:28
  It happens to everyone. It's one of those jobs that is
• 1:01:31
  relentless. You know, you don't get any
• 1:01:33
  rewards. You don't get, like, respect
• 1:01:35
  particularly. You know, it's just the
• 1:01:37
  expectation that you have to run around like crazy and make
• 1:01:41
  everything work and just be constantly and physically and
• 1:01:45
  emotionally exhausted. Like, that's the expectation.
• 1:01:47
  And if you can't deal with it, guess what?
• 1:01:49
  We're just going to replace you with someone else.
• 1:01:50
  It is a thankless job. And I don't think people really,
• 1:01:54
  really understand that, maybe as much as they should.
• 1:01:59
  How does it feel when customers treat you like you're invisible
• 1:02:02
  or beneath them? It feels belittling.
• 1:02:08
  A lot of the time you just let it go, you know, you just laugh
• 1:02:12
  it off. You know, Sometimes if I hear
• 1:02:14
  something really, really rude, I might tell a colleague and will
• 1:02:17
  laugh about it. But a lot of the time, it makes
• 1:02:20
  you feel really low, makes you feel bad about yourself.
• 1:02:23
  There's been times when I felt, you know, pretty frustrated at
• 1:02:28
  life in general because, you know, maybe I'm not making the
• 1:02:31
  progress I want to in life and I'm not where I want to be in
• 1:02:34
  life and I'm stuck doing this job I don't like anyway.
• 1:02:37
  And then this person is reinforcing that feeling
• 1:02:41
  unknowingly, but they're just ignorant or rude and I just
• 1:02:46
  won't take it off anyone, to be honest.
• 1:02:48
  I remember there was a hotel job I was working at recently and I
• 1:02:53
  was already having a bad day. It was we were setting something
• 1:02:56
  up and the manager just couldn't give me a one word answer or a
• 1:03:00
  clear plan that I needed basically and I got frustrated.
• 1:03:03
  So I was already in a bad mood and this organiser had come
• 1:03:13
  early. Like normally if they come early
• 1:03:15
  for an event, they'll maybe drop some things off the previous
• 1:03:20
  night, maybe set up a little, a few things, have a little look,
• 1:03:22
  and then leave. These people decided to do all
• 1:03:27
  of that, plus also have their AV people trying to set up the room
• 1:03:34
  while we're trying to set it up, which means we can't fully set
• 1:03:37
  it up because they're in the way.
• 1:03:39
  And we also had to serve all of them food outside of the room
• 1:03:45
  and then pat that down and reset it again for the next day.
• 1:03:49
  And it was only like 30 or 40 odd people, but it was still,
• 1:03:53
  you know, something we had to do in addition to everything else
• 1:03:56
  we were doing. And this woman comes in and I'm
• 1:04:00
  moving stuff that she's asked me to move.
• 1:04:01
  And look, I make a mistake, like the boxes are in the wrong
• 1:04:05
  place, right? But it's easily fixable.
• 1:04:07
  It would take me like a minute. I just take them out of the
• 1:04:09
  room, take them to where she wants them.
• 1:04:11
  She starts getting rude and shirty, as my mum would say with
• 1:04:15
  me. So I just turn around to her and
• 1:04:17
  I matched her energy and I was not rude, but I was very cold
• 1:04:22
  and just kind of explained things very matter of fact to
• 1:04:26
  her. And she backed down something
• 1:04:29
  awful after that. Like suddenly it's polite and
• 1:04:33
  respectful and oh OK, I'm dealing with another human
• 1:04:37
  being. And after that we got everything
• 1:04:41
  sorted and it wasn't an issue. But what I was trying to say
• 1:04:44
  without saying it was you don't, but you, I won't allow you to do
• 1:04:49
  that. You might think that you can do
• 1:04:52
  this to, I don't know, the people you work with and other
• 1:04:56
  people, but that's not going to fly with me.
• 1:04:59
  Too many times I've seen over the years managers turn around
• 1:05:02
  to their staff in customer service and say you just have to
• 1:05:06
  take this abuse. You just have to take this
• 1:05:09
  stuff. Sometimes it's part of the job.
• 1:05:10
  And I'll agree to a certain extent it is, but there is a
• 1:05:15
  fine line between, you know, someone being a bit irritable or
• 1:05:19
  a little bit rude versus like just abuse.
• 1:05:22
  You know, I think everyone should draw the line on that.
• 1:05:28
  And but it is tricky. Everyone has a different
• 1:05:32
  perception on that. Like I, I had a instance
• 1:05:35
  recently where that something like that happened and I felt
• 1:05:38
  like maybe the person I was working with maybe could have
• 1:05:42
  approached a bit differently. But then, you know, I wasn't
• 1:05:47
  completely Privy to the full conversation and I don't know
• 1:05:50
  how it made them feel. I don't know exact wording that
• 1:05:52
  was used. And that is a big part of it.
• 1:05:55
  You know, how something makes you feel.
• 1:06:00
  There's a there's a lot to it, you know, but it's interesting.
• 1:06:04
  Yeah. Beneath them and invisible.
• 1:06:05
  Invisible is a big one. There's been times when I've
• 1:06:08
  said good morning to people and they just, they just walked past
• 1:06:11
  you or they put there's like people from like other countries
• 1:06:14
  who I guess customer service is different in their country.
• 1:06:17
  And they see service workers as, as being like scum of the earth
• 1:06:23
  and like, kind of like Victorian, like never to be seen
• 1:06:27
  or heard from kind of vibes. And it's like, look, this is a
• 1:06:30
  job that I'm doing, but you don't get to treat me that way.
• 1:06:33
  Like I don't care who you are away from.
• 1:06:36
  You don't get to disrespect me like that.
• 1:06:38
  I, I just won't allow it, simply won't allow it.
• 1:06:45
  Again, I don't think anyone should.
• 1:06:48
  I, I think it's one of those like things that no one should
• 1:06:51
  have to deal with. But, you know, it is what it is.
• 1:06:56
  Let's move it on. What's one thing you wish
• 1:06:58
  customers understood about service workers?
• 1:07:03
  I think I've already kind of answered this earlier, but like,
• 1:07:05
  just that it's not as easy as you think.
• 1:07:09
  You know, the job is a juggling act.
• 1:07:12
  And sometimes it's really, really, really hard to juggle,
• 1:07:19
  almost impossible to juggle. And there are some days when I
• 1:07:25
  like I've really, you know, because most human beings, you
• 1:07:29
  know, every human being has shit going on in their life baggage,
• 1:07:34
  right? And you're always told leave
• 1:07:37
  that stuff at the door when you walk in, it's all smiles.
• 1:07:40
  Imagine you're having the worst time in your life, Like maybe
• 1:07:43
  someone's died in your family. Maybe you just got screamed at
• 1:07:48
  by your boss or your girlfriend just dumped you or whatever.
• 1:07:52
  Like something horrible is happening in your life and now
• 1:07:55
  you've got to show up and be all smiles and feel happy and make
• 1:07:59
  everyone's day. Even the world's best actor
• 1:08:04
  would struggle with that because you've got to pretend.
• 1:08:09
  I can't tell you how many like I, I've always treated customer
• 1:08:12
  service like another one of my acting roles, but it's it's
• 1:08:15
  often been the hardest one I've ever had because I've had to
• 1:08:17
  pretend to be happy when I'm not.
• 1:08:20
  I've had to pretend that I didn't just hear you say
• 1:08:23
  something absolutely unbelievably rude to me.
• 1:08:26
  And I'm also having the worst time.
• 1:08:28
  Like this year, for example, has been one of the toughest years
• 1:08:32
  of my life for quite some time. And I had to just suck it up and
• 1:08:36
  look, did I moan and complain? Of course I did.
• 1:08:39
  But I got on with it. And in the hardest times, I just
• 1:08:43
  pushed through it. I can think of much worse times
• 1:08:47
  that I've pushed through Same thing.
• 1:08:49
  And having the added issue of of working in customer service just
• 1:08:56
  accentuates that feeling. It's it's ruthless.
• 1:09:02
  Like you're, you're thrown into an environment that expects you
• 1:09:06
  to be this happy person. This, you know, walking advert
• 1:09:13
  really is. Is this like, I can't count how
• 1:09:16
  many places I've worked where they just want you to walk
• 1:09:18
  around with this big shit eating grin as they say, like
• 1:09:22
  everything's great, everything's fantastic.
• 1:09:24
  And it's like it's, it's not, it's OK for things to not be OK.
• 1:09:30
  It's OK for me to not continuously smile.
• 1:09:33
  If anything that's creepy. You know, it's, it's just, it's
• 1:09:39
  so forced and it's so fake and I hate it.
• 1:09:43
  It's cool if it's genuine, if you've got people that just
• 1:09:45
  genuinely happy to be working there and are proud to be
• 1:09:49
  working there. But like, I think ultimately
• 1:09:53
  things are better when they're natural.
• 1:09:56
  You know, like when I think about over the years, certain
• 1:09:59
  ways people have told me how to approach customer service
• 1:10:03
  conversations and I've not felt that it was natural.
• 1:10:06
  I just didn't use that style. I used my style and would slip
• 1:10:10
  in the things that they want, the, you know, the upselling of
• 1:10:13
  things or the talking about offers and stuff.
• 1:10:16
  But I try to frame it in a way that made sense within this
• 1:10:19
  person's life. You know, like they've just told
• 1:10:21
  me that they're just popping in, they're on their way.
• 1:10:25
  They've got a bit of time to kill before they grab the train.
• 1:10:27
  I'm like, oh, do you want to have a quick lunch?
• 1:10:29
  Like we've got this menu, we've got, you know, this is, or how
• 1:10:32
  long you got? Just under an hour.
• 1:10:33
  OK, so not something big, something kind of mid sized.
• 1:10:36
  You know, like you, you break it down and you show that you care
• 1:10:41
  by trying to match what they're looking for, maybe even in
• 1:10:46
  certain idea that they won't even think about thinking about.
• 1:10:48
  Maybe that person just came in to grab a quick coffee, you
• 1:10:51
  know, and now you're selling them something, but you're not
• 1:10:54
  pushing it. You're just trying to insert the
• 1:10:56
  idea and almost make it seem like it's their idea.
• 1:10:59
  You know, planting seeds, so to speak, like a lot of customer
• 1:11:03
  service and hospitality especially is about trying to
• 1:11:09
  almost like get ahead of people's needs, like anticipate
• 1:11:12
  people's needs and then, you know, fulfill them.
• 1:11:18
  And some of the best servers out there I've seen, all the best,
• 1:11:22
  you know, workers in customer service will achieve that by
• 1:11:28
  noticing what the person is lacking or noticing just like
• 1:11:34
  things they might need. And like I said, trying to
• 1:11:37
  anticipate that. And I think that's a big part of
• 1:11:41
  the the what the job that gets overlooked, same as using your
• 1:11:44
  intuition. I can't count how many times I
• 1:11:46
  didn't have a manager around and I just had to wing it on my own
• 1:11:50
  and just figure out and make the best decision in the moment that
• 1:11:53
  was logical, that represented the business and the brand in
• 1:11:56
  the right way. And you know, sometimes you take
• 1:11:59
  shit for it. You know, sometimes you made the
• 1:12:01
  wrong decision and you just have to take it.
• 1:12:05
  But I think as long as your intentions are clear a lot at a
• 1:12:08
  time, that's OK. Moving it forward.
• 1:12:11
  Have you ever had a manager or Co worker who made the job worse
• 1:12:15
  or surprisingly better? Both.
• 1:12:19
  I mean, I think it's it's inevitable that you like
• 1:12:22
  customer service. Like all jobs, you get thrown in
• 1:12:26
  to a job with a bunch of people you've never met before and
• 1:12:29
  probably wouldn't ever associate with, and you've got to find a
• 1:12:33
  way to make it work. Now, you can't force yourself to
• 1:12:38
  like people if you don't like them.
• 1:12:39
  If you don't get on, you just don't get on.
• 1:12:41
  It is what it is. But I found over the years, if
• 1:12:44
  you can build up like a healthy level of respect or trust, then
• 1:12:48
  it doesn't really matter. Yeah, you might not be hanging
• 1:12:50
  out in the break room or, you know, hanging out of the
• 1:12:53
  weekends together, but it doesn't matter as long as you
• 1:12:56
  know that you can rely on that person when shit hits the fan,
• 1:13:00
  when things get tough. Do I know I can trust you with
• 1:13:03
  this? Do I know that I can rely on you
• 1:13:05
  with this? Like it's really important now
• 1:13:09
  of course I've I've explained before there's been managers
• 1:13:11
  who've made my life a living hell.
• 1:13:13
  I would even go as far as saying bullying in some cases,
• 1:13:16
  especially when I was younger. As I've gotten older, I am Privy
• 1:13:21
  to all of that. I can anticipate all of that and
• 1:13:24
  I don't accept it. And if I feel like that's
• 1:13:26
  happening, I'll just leave. I'll just quit the job.
• 1:13:28
  Fuck it. I'll find a job where they won't
• 1:13:30
  treat me like that. Co workers, yeah.
• 1:13:34
  I mean it's a tricky ones, you know, you're always going to
• 1:13:36
  have your favourites and then your people that you don't like
• 1:13:38
  as much. You know, I think it depends
• 1:13:43
  with how how things get dealt with, you know, particularly
• 1:13:46
  from the management perspective. Like in a good place, everyone
• 1:13:50
  should feel at least comfortable.
• 1:13:52
  And you know, even if they don't maybe like people or they're not
• 1:13:58
  comfortable around people in the like social aspect, they should
• 1:14:02
  at least feel comfortable when they walk in and not like dread
• 1:14:04
  their presence. And I've always tried to kind of
• 1:14:08
  make sure that everyone around me feels comfortable even if
• 1:14:12
  they don't like me, that's fine, as long as they feel like
• 1:14:15
  comfortable. Like that's the main thing.
• 1:14:16
  That's the important thing. You can't always get that right.
• 1:14:19
  Sometimes people take the things you say and do in a different
• 1:14:23
  way that you than you'd anticipated.
• 1:14:25
  But then that's part of the learning process is of being an
• 1:14:28
  adult. Becoming an adult is, you know,
• 1:14:31
  you learn, you learn about all the different types of people
• 1:14:34
  because there's obviously that's the thing as well.
• 1:14:35
  Like there's people that you click with and then there's
• 1:14:38
  people that like you could click with and then there's people
• 1:14:40
  that you may never click with and you just kind of have to try
• 1:14:43
  to make it work. I think a big thing with
• 1:14:46
  customer service as far as like making it work with people is
• 1:14:51
  that you're working with is building up that level of
• 1:14:55
  relatability, paying attention to how each other are getting
• 1:15:00
  treated, for instance, and remarking on that.
• 1:15:03
  There's been times I've pulled someone aside when someone's
• 1:15:06
  been rude to them and I've been like, Jesus, they were so rude.
• 1:15:09
  And like, it just makes them feel seen because in that moment
• 1:15:12
  they probably felt very shit about it.
• 1:15:14
  And now it's just like, oh, you laugh it off.
• 1:15:16
  It's like, screw this, right? Like I always liken it a bit to
• 1:15:21
  like being in the trenches together, like, you know.
• 1:15:24
  And that ultimately is where the kind of respect thing comes into
• 1:15:27
  play as well. I think if you've worked in this
• 1:15:32
  this kind of work before or you, or it's your first time and
• 1:15:37
  you've managed to successfully do it without having a mental
• 1:15:39
  breakdown, people respect you. And people like the fact that
• 1:15:45
  they can work with you and rely on you and just get through this
• 1:15:48
  thing that we all have to get through.
• 1:15:51
  And then there's, you know, there's just people you get on
• 1:15:53
  with people that are fun people that you enjoy hanging out with
• 1:15:57
  at work. And you almost sometimes if it's
• 1:16:00
  that good, you almost forget that you're at work.
• 1:16:02
  And that's kind of the best, but I always try to, it's the same
• 1:16:06
  when I'm on set and doing films and stuff or if I'm in the
• 1:16:08
  studio. I always try to make it a good
• 1:16:10
  experience for everyone. You know, let's try to forget
• 1:16:14
  the situation we're in and let's try and have fun as much as
• 1:16:17
  possible and get through this. I hope that it wasn't too
• 1:16:22
  difficult to get through this show.
• 1:16:23
  I hope that you enjoyed it. I'm going to do follow-ups.
• 1:16:27
  So expect more episodes on customer service coming soon.
• 1:16:34
  If you have any questions, please send them in.
• 1:16:36
  This is Part 1. There'll be more.
• 1:16:38
  Send them in, send them in, send them in, send them in.
• 1:16:40
  I thought this was fun. I think I got a lot out of a
• 1:16:43
  little. And there's so many more
• 1:16:46
  questions that I've not even delved into.
• 1:16:49
  There's so many. Oh my God.
• 1:16:51
  Thank you so much for watching and listening.
• 1:16:53
  And until next time, I'll see you in the next one.