Latest / Reflect Reclaim & Liberate - with Sallyanne Hartnell / Deciding To Leave A Marriage - A Reflect Client Story

Transcript

Deciding To Leave A Marriage - A Reflect Client Story · Reflect Reclaim & Liberate - with Sallyanne Hartnell

• 0:07
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome to Reflect, Reclaim and Liberate the podcast, finding the space for all of you in life and love.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_00: I'm your host, Sally Ann Hartnell, and this podcast is for anyone wanting to reclaim and liberate themselves in their relationships and their life.
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_00: Wherever you are on your relationship journey, these conversations meet you right there.
• 0:30
  SPEAKER_00: In soulful, deeply supportive DNMs with me and interviews with other gorgeous humans, moving you from where you are to where you most want to be.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_00: A life and love completely aligned with your deepest desires to have it all on your own terms.
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_00: If you're seeking a relationship and a life that lights up all of you, you're in the right place.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_00: I'd also like to acknowledge that this podcast is recorded on the traditional lands of the Wurundri people and pay my respects to elders past, present, and emerging and acknowledge them as the original storytellers of this land.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_00: This story is about Emma and her husband Dave.
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_00: When Emma connected with me, she was the one asking all the big questions.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_00: She was wondering and had been for quite some time, and probably deep down knew that yes, she wanted something different, but really needed some support and nurture and caring to help unravel that and explore that objectively with someone who wasn't emotionally invested in the outcome.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_00: You know, she was asking, is my marriage over?
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_00: Could we possibly reconnect?
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_00: Um, what do I even want for my life?
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_00: And then, of course, what will my future look like if I stay?
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_00: And what about if I leave?
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_00: You know, she was telling herself all the stories that if she left everyone would blame her.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_00: You know, how could she leave such an outwardly perfect kind of looking life?
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_00: You know, she would lose everything, she would lose everyone, she'd blow up her life.
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_00: And so when she started with me, part of my work with her was gently challenging her on that.
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_00: You know, how true is that thought?
• 2:34
  SPEAKER_00: How true is that really?
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_00: You know, how else might you look at that differently or think about that differently?
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_00: How could you reframe that for yourself?
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, what is the real story you're telling yourself?
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_00: What's underneath all these stories?
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_00: There was a lot of conditioning and a lot of unraveling work to do, you know, deeply ingrained beliefs about how a wife should be, who she should be, what marriage meant, and you know, how it should in inverted commas look.
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_00: But a lot of it was really just that.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_00: It was stories that she'd um taken on, beliefs that she'd taken on, learned through you know, lived experience, uh, family of origin, and it really wasn't aligned anymore with who she was or who she wanted to be and the life she really wanted to be living.
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_00: And then, of course, came the next step.
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_00: You know, how do I open these hard conversations I know I need to have with my partner, you know, and some of that was regardless of whether she chose to stay or leave.
• 3:41
  SPEAKER_00: She knew that she needed to have some of these big conversations with him, and so we worked on that, and I supported her with how to open those conversations with compassion, with a gentle start-up, so that they weren't um that they were constructive and forward-focused, and he didn't feel like they were an attack, that they could open and have these conversations with gentleness, with kindness, with compassion, even love.
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_00: You know, we work through where he, as in her partner, let's call him Dave, where Dave was, where he was at, what were his key drivers, what were his fears, what were his core values, what was most important to him, what was underneath his beliefs and his behaviours, so that Emma could actually open conversations in ways that would be least likely to tip him into reactivity, to tip him into fear.
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_00: You know, she was worried that on the one hand, you know, Dave might react explosively and impulsively and you know escalate things really quickly to this full-blown lawyer-driven divorce scenario, or that he would completely shut down and refuse to discuss things and just yep, yep, yep, whatever, whatever, whatever.
• 4:57
  SPEAKER_00: So she was worried about both of those scenarios, and we worked then on how to create those emotionally safe spaces, that emotionally safe environment for both of them to be able to discuss where they were at, what was most important to each of them, and how they wanted to move themselves forward.
• 5:18
  SPEAKER_00: And then, of course, came the list of all the things, all the practical, tangible things.
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_00: You know, what about the house?
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_00: What about the dog?
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_00: What about work?
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_00: What about income?
• 5:27
  SPEAKER_00: You know, she had been studying to change career after the kids had sort of left left home and were at university.
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_00: She'd taken on some study to change career.
• 5:39
  SPEAKER_00: So, what was that going to look like?
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_00: What would that mean for her now?
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_00: You know, who would likely get what if they split?
• 5:45
  SPEAKER_00: And her guilt was huge.
• 5:47
  SPEAKER_00: And she was wondering, you know, maybe she should just walk away and let him keep most of their assets, keep the family house, you know, that was so important to him.
• 5:55
  SPEAKER_00: He was so connected to and proud of, you know, the garden that he loved.
• 5:59
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe she should just walk away and let him have all of that.
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_00: You know, and as I said, some of this was really driven by guilt.
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_00: Dave is essentially a really good man, a kind-hearted and caring man.
• 6:09
  SPEAKER_00: There just wasn't the intimacy or connection there that she was craving and had tried over years to reignite or to ignite.
• 6:21
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and she had been grown exhausted by that by that trying, by that trying to keep it alive, trying and doing all the work to remain emotionally connected or to to build an emotionally connected, intimate partnership.
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_00: And she really felt like she'd buried that part of her, you know, the spark, the light, the joy, that carefree, fun human being she had once been.
• 6:44
  SPEAKER_00: She felt like she'd lost all of that in the fight to reconnect or to connect and build a marriage, a relationship where she could bring and be all of that.
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_00: She'd lost her spark.
• 6:58
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and so we also explored, you know, what would this mean for her relationship with her young adult kids?
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_00: How could she stay really connected to them and preserve the relationship with each of them?
• 7:11
  SPEAKER_00: You know, would they blame her for breaking up the family?
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_00: Would they blame her for hurting and leaving their father?
• 7:18
  SPEAKER_00: You know, so we explored a lot of that and about how to have conversations with them, independent of their dad, but also with their dad, how that could look.
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and she took that back into conversations with their father and fostered really grown-up but also grown-up conversations with their kids, but also conversations where their young adult children were still allowed to be the kids that Emma and Dave were the parents, and they led the conversation in ways that allowed their young adult children to still be the kids and to still have independent relationships with each of their parents.
• 8:01
  SPEAKER_00: We also went deep on exploring what she really wanted.
• 8:06
  SPEAKER_00: She was really clear on what she did not want.
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_00: You know, she didn't want disconnection, she didn't want to live um in a way that felt like she had to she had dimmed her light.
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_00: It wasn't that she had to, it's that it had become dimmed through the years of this disconnected, um emotionally stunted relationship, you know.
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_00: So she knew what she didn't want, what did she really want?
• 8:35
  SPEAKER_00: And so together we moved through exploring all of that.
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_00: I coached her through that, I supported her to look at really deeply what she most wanted for her life, what her core values were, what was really important to her, and how did she most want life to look and feel in the future?
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_00: And then, of course, while she was um grappling with the should I stay, should I go decision?
• 9:01
  SPEAKER_00: Is it possible to have all of that and stay married to this person?
• 9:07
  SPEAKER_00: Is it possible to have all of that and stay in this version of life, in this version of marriage?
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_00: And when the answer was no, then can this relationship change, morph, grow, evolve so that you can have all that you want in your life, that you can feel seen, heard, fulfilled, that you can feel joy and light, that you can tap back into your creativity, you can be all of who you want to be.
• 9:36
  SPEAKER_00: Is that possible in this relationship?
• 9:39
  SPEAKER_00: And for Emma, the answer was no.
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so I invited her to go really deep on where she wanted life to take her, what she wanted to do, how she wanted life to look and feel in 10, even 20 years' time.
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_00: Again, was that compatible with this current relationship?
• 9:55
  SPEAKER_00: Could the relationship be different, or was it time to call time?
• 9:59
  SPEAKER_00: It was time for her.
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_00: And so then, of course, supported her to open those hard conversations, conversations she needed to have with her husband, with Dave.
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_00: Emma had got to that point where she pretty much knew it was over.
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_00: She knew that the life she wanted to be living, the woman she wanted to be, the Emma that she wanted to be able to bring to the light and to shine again, that just wasn't possible in this relationship within her marriage.
• 10:26
  SPEAKER_00: The intimacy she craved, the woman that she really wanted to live her life as was not that was not possible in this relationship.
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_00: And so opening the hard conversations with Dave.
• 10:41
  SPEAKER_00: It was really important, even though she just then wanted to rip the band-aid off, get things done, tell him we're done, I'm out, and walk, was really important to allow Dave to have the time to catch up, to allow that emotionally safe space to give him the time to catch up.
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_00: So the separation could be kind and compassionate and respectful, to allow him the time to process some of the big emotions that she already had, so that those conversations could be more of an exploration rather than a declaration or an ultimatum, so that it could be, you know, a collaborative exploration of what each of them wanted, future focused, you know, in both of their best interests.
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so the conversations were about the future, that's where she started.
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_00: They were about the future, where each of them was headed, what their values were, what they each wanted, how they wanted to live the future part of their life, um, and was what they wanted the same or at least compatible.
• 11:45
  SPEAKER_00: So together they actually decided it wasn't.
• 11:49
  SPEAKER_00: Even though Emma was fairly sure she was pretty certain it was over, it was important to her to go through that process with Dave, not just to lead him through it, but to be in that exploration with him together.
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_00: So together they decided that it they weren't on the same page or the same path.
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_00: They really did want and need different things from life and things that the other couldn't give without self-abandoning or squashing down their own wants, needs, desired desires.
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_00: So they decided to separate.
• 12:26
  SPEAKER_00: Together, they made that decision and and quite amicably.
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, it was sad.
• 12:31
  SPEAKER_00: Was there anger?
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, was there sadness?
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, there was all those things, but overall it was an amicable um mutual decision, and then once that decision had been made, Emma and I moved on to okay, what and how to tell the kids.
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_00: They had two young adult children who were living away from home, they both wanted to be sure that they were okay.
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_00: So we mapped out again the conversations to have with with Dave first about what and how to tell the kids.
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_00: You know, initially he was fairly fixed in his position that, you know, even though it was an amicable mutual thing, it was really her decision.
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_00: It was Emma's decision, Emma's choice.
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, that's what they should, that's what we're going to tell the kids.
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_00: She wanted to leave, it was over, she was leaving him.
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_00: So my coaching work and my support of Emma around that, unraveling that and thinking back on what were her husband's key drivers, core values, reflecting on where he was coming from, really helped her to go into an open further conversation with him, which was really deeply focused on what was in the best interests of their children and with of their each of their relationship with their children going forward.
• 13:51
  SPEAKER_00: What was best for the kids and what was best in terms of fostering a strong relationship for the kids with each of their parents.
• 13:59
  SPEAKER_00: So after a while, a bit more conversation, they came to more of an agreement about how and when and what to tell the kids.
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_00: What to tell them, how much of the story to share with them, and what the kids really didn't need to know, what was just personal and private between Emma and Dave.
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_00: So they came to some agreement and they both agreed together that they would tell together and then have independent conversations going forward if that's what the kids wanted.
• 14:31
  SPEAKER_00: But they agreed on the narrative, they agreed on the story, on the parts that were to be shared, and the parts that were just private between husband and wife separating, separating adult couple, the parents.
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_00: So that allowed their kids, even though they're young adults, that allowed their kids to remain the kids in this scenario.
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_00: Because even young adults have strong reactions, strong emotions around their parents separating, you know, the potential of new partners coming in can be a source of conflict.
• 15:05
  SPEAKER_00: So if this part can be unraveled, if this unraveling part can be done gently and compassionately and with the kids' best interests at heart, rather than wanting to point fingers or blame shame, it is helpful for the kids and their ongoing relationships with both parents.
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_00: So they told their young adult children together, as I said, without blame, without much anger, or without anger in that conversation and without making any one of the parents the bad guy, one of them wrong, without blaming, finger pointing.
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_00: So they decided that they would put the house on the market.
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_00: Um potentially, hadn't made a firm decision on that, but Emma decided that she would move out into a rental, taking a lease to give her a bit of breathing space, to give them breathing space from one another while they did the next hard bit about, you know, are we going to sell the big family house?
• 16:04
  SPEAKER_00: What's that gonna look like?
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_00: How are we gonna move actually move the stuff?
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_00: Um so it gave them both a bit of breathing space from one another.
• 16:13
  SPEAKER_00: Um and also allowed Emma to tap back into who she wanted to be going forward, what was on the other side of this.
• 16:25
  SPEAKER_00: So really focusing on bringing in joy and calm and peace, the words that she most the, you know, the things that she most wanted to bring into her this next chapter of her life.
• 16:40
  SPEAKER_00: It also gave Dave a bit of time and space to dial down and move through some of his big emotions so that he could come back into those conversations about money and property and selling a house with a little bit of a different perspective, with a little bit of space that Emma had already had.
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_00: You know, she was that 10 steps ahead, it allowed him time and space to catch up.
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_00: So down the track a little bit, the family home is on the market.
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and Dave is also considering his next move, his options.
• 17:17
  SPEAKER_00: So both of them are really looking at and thinking about their future and and asking themselves, hmm, what do I want that to look like?
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_00: And how can I make what I want it to look like a reality?
• 17:27
  SPEAKER_00: And they're actually having those conversations together with a mediator, so they're coming together episodically to nut that out.
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_00: How is this going to look?
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_00: How are we going to split out our money so that we can both have what we need and what we want moving forward, or at least both have a part of what we want and what we need moving forward.
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_00: You know, their dog moves between two homes, and they've both come to a point where they can interact as they need to without too much angst or too much activation while they are navigating these next steps, financial separation settlement, and they both have really strong relationships with their children.
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_00: They're not at the point where they're happy families and able to go out for dinner together, but they I think they both hope.
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_00: I know Emma hopes, and I think they both hope that that is on the cards in the not too distant future, where they can go out as you know, a reorganized family and have a meal together or share a birthday together.
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_00: Emma has finished studying, graduated, um, she accepted an offer and started a new job.
• 18:40
  SPEAKER_00: She took a contract position, again, not locking herself in, but just giving herself time, breathing space to consider next steps and where physically, geographically, where she really wants to be, and the sort of work, the type of job she really wants to be doing.
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_00: We've finished our current container of coaching work together, but Emma messaged me recently, having finished work in her new job for the week, saying I've finished a big work week.
• 19:13
  SPEAKER_00: I just had a conversation with Dave, which was a really positive conversation.
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_00: I've been for a run, done the grocery shopping for the weekend, and I'm cooking dinner with a glass of wine, listening to some great music, feeling settled, grateful, peaceful, and really proud of myself.
• 19:31
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm very sure that I would not have been able to steer myself to this place without your thoughtful objective support.
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_00: So thank you.
• 19:40
  SPEAKER_00: I also have a connected loving relationship with both of the kids, and I'm sure I wouldn't have managed that quite so easily without your help.
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_00: It's not yet mission accomplished, there's still a little way to go, but I know I'm in a far, far better place from working with you than I would have had than I would have been.
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_00: This is the power of coaching.
• 20:03
  SPEAKER_00: This is the power and the value of working with me.
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_00: So if Emma's story resonates with you and you are looking for that deep nurturing support, either to make the hard decision, to decide whether to stay or leave a long-term relationship or a marriage, or move through the messy parts of separation and divorce, I would love to support you either one-on-one as I did with Emma, or I would love to welcome you into my new offering, my new group program, Decide and Thrive.
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_00: A supportive, safe, confidential, healing community of women, or anyone who identifies as female, people who are going through the same as you.
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_00: It will scaffold you, it will support you to make hard decisions, to do the hard things, to get to the other side.
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_00: And of course, I'm in the group supporting all of you with my knowledge, expertise, wisdom, coaching.
• 21:03
  SPEAKER_00: I will be holding all of you, and I would love to welcome you into that.
• 21:07
  SPEAKER_00: Link in the show notes, as always, to book a free intro call, to sign up to the wait list for the group program, which kicks off April 2024.
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_00: And as always, as always, thank you for being here.
• 21:21
  SPEAKER_00: I hope you've found some light in Emma's story.
• 21:27
  SPEAKER_00: Until next time.
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_00: I'd also be so grateful if you'd follow the podcast and review this episode so we can get it in the ears of a whole lot more humans just like you who are ready to reclaim and liberate themselves in life and love.
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_00: I hope you'll join me next time for another episode of Reflect, Reclaim and Liberate.
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_00: Until then.