Latest / Ageless and Timeless Podcast® / James White CEO and Owner KBMO Diagnostics.

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James White CEO and Owner KBMO Diagnostics. · Ageless and Timeless Podcast®

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Good morning everyone. This is Michelle Hughes from Ageless and Timeless. We're doing
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audio only today with our wonderful guest James White, who is the CEO of
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KBMO Diagnostics, which is in Hope Gale. Probably never heard of that,
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but Hope Gale. Is that how you say it? Hopedale, Massachusetts?
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Right, yeah, that's right just on the just outside, just outside both.
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Yeah, so you know, I grew up and I told you this,
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but I grew up in South Natick, which is right right well as
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the college. But I've never heard of Hopetale, sorry about and I lived
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there for what twenty twenty years until I went off to our nineteen years till
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I went off to college, So I'm sorry about that. It must be
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a very little town. It is. It's very cute, but but nowadays
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it's just don't pull any five. It's a good spots, so okay,
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so it's easy for people to get you right in the technology corridor then,
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huh exactly exactly just off the Mask Pike, the dreaded mass Pike. So
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yeah, yes, well you know, I have a funny story about that
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because when I met my husband, who we met at fourteen, he was
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going to Harvard and I was going to the University of Massachusetts and Amherst.
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But our parents didn't want us to keep seeing each other during college. They
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thought there was time after eight years to you know, just branch out and
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have a little dating experience. So we didn't want to let them know that
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that wasn't happening. And my father bought me a car for using a campus,
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but he didn't know that every weekend I was driving that car on the
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mass Pike the Native exit, and every time I would go there, I
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would beholding my breath that my father and mother would not see me because they
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were out shopping somewhere or so. That's a very Massachusetts version of star Cross
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love. There we go, That's what it was. But they did,
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and we actually ended up, you know, obviously violating their wishes. But
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yet we went through all through college and then and then got married, so
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it was it was a happy ending. But that Mathpike always reminds me my
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weekly trips to King So James, welcome to Ageless and Timeless. So we're
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so happy. You know, I've been looking forward to this since I met
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you at the eighth for M show in December and well, I didn't meet
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you, but I met your people and did your little, amazing little blood
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trick that tells you so much information, which we'll get to in a moment.
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But the reason I've been looking forward to this for so since December is
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that I wanted to do a microbione series, knowing how important this is.
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The subject has become m in the minds and in lives of many people who
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are health conscious. So um, and I am having doctor Rob Silverman in
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two weeks. Uh, and I know you two are collaborating many courses another
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microbiome or at least say um, at least say the GI tracked you know
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they're we're both very experts. So let's start by telling us more about you
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first, because people want to know who you are, how where did you
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come from? And how did you get here? Yeah? So I um
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I, as you can probably tell from my accent, I had to tell
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our home from East Boston on the basis, probably further east than most people
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imagine. So I'm roaging from the UK and h we moved over here about
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nineteen years ago, so nearly twenty years ago. And my children don't quite
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found something tames me they've got the Boston accent, but that's okay, uh.
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And we've really enjoyed living over here. And in that time I was
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running a UK public company and we had operations in beautiful Pasadena, Atlanta and
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then Boston as well, so we moved over here and I kind of felt
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that New England was a great place to bring up our children, and so
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we did that, and that really is the is the foundation of the name
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of the company. So it's called KBMO Diagnostic. K is for Kat and
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my wife, The is for Ben, my eldest son, Emma is for
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Max, my middle son, and OHS for Olivia, my daughter, and
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so you know, we all have bosses, and they're my four bosses.
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So it was kind of it seemed like a good way of naming my company
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to have it named after the foremost important people in my life. So that's
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how we kind of got here twenty years ago running a UK public company,
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which was we sold off a number of the divisions to various companies like Roche
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and so it worked went very well, and we weren't very keen to going
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to head back to the UK. We really liked liked living in Massachusetts and
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so I came across a company called, at that time Brendan Bias Science that
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was being headed up by my technical founder of Kuma generman called doctor Brent Dorville,
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who's not insignificant claim to fame, was invented the first rapid HIV diagnostic,
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and he'd moved into this kind of whole area of food sensitivity. And
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we can talk about the difference between allergy sensitivity and all these things, but
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he kind of moved into this area, and so he and I kind of
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got together and partnered about ten years ago now, So that's really how we
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got here. It was originally running a different business and then kind of once
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we've kind of sold that off, moved into this area of food sesitivity.
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So that was that, that was the genus. And again there's so many
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bright, intelligent people here in Massachusetts and the US as a whole who were
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looking at healthcare. But see, as you mentioned with your husband and Harvard,
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there's a many universities in and around this area, and so we've really
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enjoyed being here and you know, talk about a bit more about our company,
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and you know, some of our great employees that we've we've had a
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who were all from this from this area. How did you not get a
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Boston accent? But your kids did? It's so funny. It's in the
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UK. It's a bit more common than I think over here. But generally
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people have what they call a gap here, which as you leave high school
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and you have a year of kind of bumming around the world. And so
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a lot of my friends who went kind of through fire Australia came back sounding
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like, you know, they've grown up in Australia. I think you get
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past a certain age and you're kind of stuck with what you're stuck with.
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So I'm stuck with this one. So I guess I'm okay with that.
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Well, you know, just as a segue, when I came to San
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Francisco, which was many many decades ago now, but so I consider myself
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a San Francisco local, not a native, but a local. But anyway,
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when I came here, the people that I met couldn't understand me.
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They always made fun of me. And you know, I had a really
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really bad I mean not bad, but you know, a very strong yeah.
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And you know, I look, you grow up there, that's what
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happens. I don't know how I got rid of it. Every once in
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a while, maybe if I have a glass of champagne or something, I
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have people say, oh, I hear that Boston accent. But mostly it's
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gone. But I'm so grateful for that. When I come back to see
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my family and I hear that accent, I think, I can't believe that
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I actually have that accent. And it's a great chim That's a good one.
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But they know where they come from and they're proud of it, so
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that's a good thing. Yeah, that's good. Well, let's talk about
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ABMO that and I want people that are you know, our viewers, well
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today it's our listeners. I want them to understand what exactly your testing can
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do for them. So we're going to that's our goal for the podcast.
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But in the meantime, I'd like to hear a little bit the science and
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maybe start with that open ended question first is what is the difference between or
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among those terms which people hear all the time food allergy, food intolerance,
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food sensitivity. If those three were put on a screen, how would you
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differentiate. Yeah, that's a great question, and unfortunately the medical community are
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as guilty as as you know, as consumers in terms of the kind of
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inter use of those three terms. So I think it's it's a fair place
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to start in term the kind of giving people our understanding of how they differ,
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to make to make it more sense of it. And so you know,
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allergy is generally what we describe as an IgE reaction, and it is
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kind of cause and effects. So think of you know, child eats peanut,
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instant reaction and generally are very severe reactions. I think things like prophylactic
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shock. So an allergy is a immediate response and generally a very severe outcome
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to it. So that's the allergy. And as I remember hearing from one
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provider, he was an MD, he said, you know, generally,
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James, I don't test for people over twenty four allergies. If they're still
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here at twenty, then they don't have an allergy, which is maybe it
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is the work on his bedside manner, but it was kind of certainly stuck
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in my mind. And then if you think of food sensibly, which is
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what we do. Again, it's an immunological response, but it's a delayed
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response. Up to seventy two hours is delayed, so that makes it much
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harder for a patient or a provider to work out which food patient might have
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consumed in the last seventy two hours is leading to the symptoms that the patients
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present with, and those symptoms, to be honest Michelle, are many in
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vary which makes it harder for them to work it out. So the differences
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is the time as well as severity of response. And naturally, the best
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way to think about it is an allergy is instant, the sensitivity is delayed,
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and generally those symptoms are much more varied. So again they may be
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kind of non specific author immune type reactions and arthritis things like that. So
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there are there are many and varied versus analogy which is more prophilectic, ship
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shot and more severe or severe. So what does I G E stand for?
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And what does I G so's It's just an immunoglobulin E and are immunoglobulin
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g SO again an E. It's just a different pathway as it were in
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terms of you think of sometimes like cardiovascular testing, they'll test you form a
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number of different cardiovascular markers and for the IgG IS there's one pathway and the
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I G E is another one, and so they're both in munological but it's
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the IgG is the one that we measure, and it's a slightly different pathway
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these powerful methods. Okay, and then it's food intolerance. It just kind
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of in the middle or is that told more things think of things like lactose
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intolerance and stuff like that. So that's where that's another different kind of format
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again slightly in the in the middle of a good way of putting it,
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but probably am slightly the IgG in terms of it's an intolerant versus an immunological
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response. In terms of that the IG is and what does compliment mean?
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So yeah, so, so now come into our kind of specific bethificity or
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the specific nature of our test. And what we do is we measure not
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only the IgG, but the subclass is the IgG one through four. But
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we also measure compliment activation. So we're looking at two parts of your immune
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system. So there's the acquired immune system, which is the IgG, and
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then the innate immune system is the compliment activation, and that's the compliment that
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we measure. And what that does is to kind of simplify the bit is
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IgG is a great way of finding out which food you're exposed to, what
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you're consuming, and the compliment activation the innate pathway is an inflammatory response.
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So in essence, what we do is we try and work out what you're
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exposed to with the IgG, but then what we go on to do is
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measure of the food you're exposed to, which ones are causing you an inflammatory
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response, because if you think about it, an inflammatory response is the underlying
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cause of most of the symptoms that patients present with. So a lot of
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tests are out there, Michelle, which are just looking at that IgG pathway.
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And one of the reasons I got very excited about working with doctor Brent
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Dauville all those years ago was he didn't just stop at exposure because again,
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we all need to be exposed to foods let's be clear. But what he
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worked out was, let's not just look at what you're exposed to, because
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that would come up with a long list of foods and they're not all relevant
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in terms of what you'd need to eliminate to reduce the symptoms you present with.
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So he went on, and that's the brilliant of him to say,
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well, why don't we look at which foods are actually causing in innate response
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the compliment, which then gives you a way of really zeroing in on,
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frankly, a much smaller list of foods which is focused on the inflammatory response
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and so then correlates much more tightly with the symptoms of patient presents with.
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And so that's the big difference about our test, and it's the reason why
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we're the only test in the world that is patented because of doctor Duvall's brilliant
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looking at the IGGI the exposure, but then going on and look at the
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inflammation as well. So the great companies out there measuring IgG the limitation isn't
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them. It's that pathway because it's only telling you what you're exposed to.
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Oh is that what the alka and the every well or whatever that one every
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weell's look at that ALCAT is slightly different. It's looking at how your white
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lymphocyte cells swell. But the reality is is not multiple reasons why they swell,
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And so sometimes you know what I hear from providers is that's why that
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test, again very accurate, measuring that swelling of the white lymphocyte cells,
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but in reality, there's multiple reasons why they may swell. So you end
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up we've put a few bold positives. So that's the issue that it's again
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very accurate, but again there's multiple reasons why the white blood cells not only
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linked to food sensitivities. Yeah, and I think honestly, you have an
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obstacle or a challenge to face because the history of testing has been very spotty
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and and a lot of false positives that you know, people then take us
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kind of a generalized Okay, this is not really worth doing because I'm going
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to get a lot of information is going to scare me or make me go
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down a path that is inaccurate. So how do you overcome the history of
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testing food sensitivity testing? Yeah, and it's a very good point, Michelle,
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because again when I got involved in this area, I was like anyone
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else, you kind of you you look at Google or I think it was
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probably Yahoo back in ten years ago, but you look at Google and you
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kind of go, well, you know, what does it say about food
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sensitivity testing? And you know, you're right, there are some pretty negative
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articles because of that focus on the exposure versus the inflammation that we look at.
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And so from when I got involved in the business, you know,
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I did my due diligence to see how does it differ from some of those
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other companies out there, and for me again, you know, there's I
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think it's it's it's a pretty key thing that you know, if your business
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and your company and your product is based on sound science with some very good
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scientists around it, and then really what you need to then is you know,
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communicate better your message. That's an easier story to do versus if you've
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got poor technology to start with, doesn't matter how good your marketing spin is,
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it's going to fade away. And so I think the nicest thing with
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our technologies based on really sound patented technology with the gentleman that invented the first
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rapid HIV diagnostics. So from my standpoint, that's why I was so excited
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to get involved and own this business was because the very sound technology, brilliant
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scientists based around it as well, and from that place you can then explain
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the differences. As we were talking about earlier, it's not just measuring exposure,
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it's the brilliance of doctor Dorvill looking at the exposure, plus a compliment
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in terms of that inflammatory pathway that we described, so that helps you reduce
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those false positives. And equally, you know, when I got involved,
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there was only a handful of doctors running a test, but they were all
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telling me about these amazing outcomes they'd had from using the testing, so you
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know, it was very gratifying to think, well, wow, I wonder
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if we can take this to a larger number of providers versus where we were
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at the time that I got involved. So taking a deep dive into the
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actual testing, what first, let's start with inflammation. I think that term
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is bandied about, So why don't you define what is inflammation and how the
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oppression? No, they have inflammation, so I think you know, there's
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a there's a long list of symptoms that you know, we've now we've very
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thoughtunate. We've gone from probably just under ten providers to nearly ten thousand providers
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in the last ten years, so we've had some explosive growth in terms of
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the number of people running the test, and they you know, I'm often
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asking the providers and it's a great one of the highlights of my day that
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we do lunches with many providers most days and so talking to them about you
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know, success stories and to your question, how do they use the test
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and what are the types of symptoms, and so they'll talk about weight loss,
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they'll talk about kind of brain related issues like migrains, anxiety, they
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talk about arthritis, and so if you think about most disease states, the
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underlying cause a lot of them, the root cause them is an inflammatory response.
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So whether it's skin related that you know, all those things are inflammatory,
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and so by measuring the complement, we can get to that root cause
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of those different symptoms and identify if there's inflammation linked to your diet, we
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can help reduce that inflammation that you know, again we're never claiming we're going
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to cure anything, but if you can greatly reduce that inflammatory response which is
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causing that symptom, and what you would hope to see is a cessation or
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a great reduction excuse me, in the symptoms that that patient presents with.
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Yes, So I think that the issue for a lot of people that,
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like when we're talking differentiating between food allergies and food sensitivities is that it's more
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subtle. Food sensitivity is more subtle. The allergy, like you said,
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is more extreme, and so people can live their lives and that say,
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oh, I don't feel so well, but they don't know really the subtle
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reason is that they're reacting to certain of the foods that they eat on it
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probably on a daily basis, knowing like Blueton, for example, is a
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big, a big culprit dairy another culprit show. We'll talk about that at
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the moment, but I mean it's a great point. I mean, I'll
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give you just a brief example that I was talking to a doctor many years
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ago and he said, like, I'm not going to run your test,
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James, because I know I'm sensitive to eggs. I said, well,
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why don't you give it a whirl and just try And it's really interesting.
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He didn't come up for eggs. He came up for oranges. And so
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I said to myself, what do you have with those eggs every morning,
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doctor, he said, oranges, oranges something exactly. So again it's that
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point where sometimes you'll assume what you think it is, but until you t
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why guess, why not test to make sure you can make sure that you
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know you're actually eliminating the right food. And in his case he was you
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know he was closed, but you know, no cigar, as they say.
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So the idea is, what you want to do is make sure you
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test to identify. And I think that this is the great thing on an
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individualized basis, and I think we all recognize now there's no such thing as
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one size fits all in any walk of life. So what you want to
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do is try and make sure with medicine in particular, how do you individualize
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your task to make sure that as an individual, those results are unique to
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you. So you may be sensitive to eggs, I may be sensitive to
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dairy, but we need to know on an individualized basis which foods they are
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so we can eliminate those from our diet and help improve whatever the symptoms that
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we have that we present with. Well, I think there's a there's another
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part of this too, and that is that it can your food sensitivities can
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change. So let's say you do the chest in December and then you do
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another chest in June six months later, what have you found When people are
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testing even let's just say they've done the elimination, but now other those foods
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have disappeared on most of them, however, new ones appear. So you
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know, this is what I know in the past when I've done the doctor's
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data. They specters sell those tests, have food food sensitivity tests. They
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I could do them and and they change. So how do you deal with
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that, the fact that these food sensitivities to change. Yeah, I mean,
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I mean all of them look at slightly different, you know, elements.
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But I think what we see is that there's a common list of foods.
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And again, because we're running these multiple pathways, it helps in terms
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of the reproducibility, which is kind of what you're getting at I. You
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know, if I test it on Monday, when I get the same result
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kind of Friday, now Tuly you your immune your system is changing the whole
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time. But Jenny, what we see is a really good commonality again reproducibility,
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and part of that is again you know, I don't want to keep
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half halfing back. But it's you know, one of the things that excites
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me when I go to ball was when we run the test. You know,
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we've are testing and our manufacturing, our approach is under that real infects
23:07
disease disease approach from doctor Doldan and his HIV background. So we run fifteen
23:15
standards of controls patient to make sure the testing is highly accurate and highly reproducible,
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which I think is what you're getting at Michelle. And that's the big
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difference here is can you make sure that you're producing a test which is highly
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accurate and highly reproducible. And I think that was the thing that excited me
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when we got involved ten years ago, and we've only improved it over that
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time. So going back to the question about how do you know you have
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the symptoms that are causing these reactions? So you mentioned you know, the
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weight glass issue and the brain brain issues or brain fog or memory you know
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those kinds of you know, because of the gut brain connection. And then
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but what about within the GI tract itself? Mean, people do people have
24:02
like, you know, the feeling of being bloated or what what are the
24:07
signs that a certain food is causing you to have an influentflammatory reaction. I
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mean they're all I mean a diarrhea that all of those you know IBS type
24:18
symptoms. In fact, we did a study on IBS on one hundred IBS
24:22
patients. It was an IRB approved study, so again it went through a
24:27
medical board to make sure that you know, we were doing it all the
24:30
appropriate way. We took a hundred patients under the guidance of a general called
24:34
doctor William SSP in Los Angeles. And so this study took a hundred patients,
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fifteen in the control, fifty in the intervention, and we tracked all
24:45
those various symptoms that you talked about there and to see could we improve them
24:49
by eliminating those foods from their diets. So we tested them on day one
24:52
and then six months later, and we saw a dramatic reduction in the thing
24:57
called their IBS severities or based on eliminating those foods. And in terms of
25:03
that elimination debt that you talked about, so you went from identifying the foods,
25:07
eliminating them and then retesting them, and we saw dramatic improvement in their
25:12
IBS severity score and what we also meant measured at the same time as I
25:18
think called high sensitive CRP, which for clinicians is a general marker of inflammation.
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And what was really encouraging for us is we saw that come down dramatically
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as well. So again not only by eliminating these foods do we see their
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symptoms improved, which is important from a patient perspective. We saw, for
25:38
example, the number of days lost at work because again these IBS patients,
25:42
the number of times they have to visit their providers is really high, so
25:48
that came down. But more importantly, you know, from a scientific standpoint,
25:52
their overall levels of inflammation as measured BYRP came down precipitously as well.
25:57
So it was nice to see symptoms improving for the patient, but then as
26:02
well in terms of what is that what how do you define that? When
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we looked at inflammation, we saw that come down directly as a correlation of
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that. So that's what we've seen with this test when we've done it in
26:14
an independent study, and I think that's one of the things we're very proud
26:17
of that we've done independent studies, because if you do it yourself or you
26:22
know, you have your lead scientists as the lead lead author on these things,
26:25
you're probably going to get the answer you're looking for. So it was
26:27
nice to do independent studies to see that, you know, we could get
26:30
that through independent physicians running the testing well, So just to confirm those terms
26:37
so people understand. So so IBS means irritable vowel syndrome and CRP is C
26:45
reactive protein C reactive proteins. Used a lot with pardio vascular testing too to
26:49
see whether the you know, you should always be under one or one or
26:56
below right, So that's a marker of inflammation. But it's more than just
27:00
cardiovascular, as you've just explained. And you know, the other thing I
27:06
noticed is that people who have food sensitivities often have acid reflux or gird I
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guess that's called gird um, you know. There they have problems with their
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digestion, and that in itself is it's got a it's a debilitating experience for
27:25
anybody that when you eat something you don't feel well after you eat, instead
27:30
of feeling nourished, which is what food. Food is your medicine. It's
27:33
opposed to nourish you, not make you feel sick. So so all that
27:37
you're doing, I honor you and congratulate your efforts to do this, you
27:41
know, scientifically and with true medical expertise behind the science as well, and
27:51
with ten thousand providers confirming that it works. I think that's a nice thing.
27:57
It's it's nice. When we first got involved, we were doing some
28:00
stuff through the insurance companies and the insurance industry is you know, is you
28:06
know, don't regardless of how people view it, um, you know,
28:11
some people will get things paid for automatically because it's covered on insurance. So
28:15
for me, the gratifying thing is we're doing all these tests and people are
28:18
paying out of pocket for it. So again a patients believe in it,
28:22
and to your point, more importantly, providers do. So. Again it's
28:25
not well, I'm going to run it because it's covered by my insurance.
28:27
I don't really care. It's very much. You know, they're thinking about
28:30
it, and they're and they're choosing the providers wisely who've gone and done the
28:34
extra work to say, look, you know, let me seek out some
28:37
of the tests that will help you move me from you know, let me
28:41
be on on ten pills a day to you know, let's eliminate some of
28:44
those drugs that I'm on and let me see if I can look as you
28:48
mentioned, you know, food being my medicine and identify which foods actually my
28:52
medicine versus which ones are actually causing me, you know, issues like you
28:56
mentioned of good diarrhea and some of these other symptoms that come along with them.
29:02
So, you know, James, it's really overwhelming when you're as the
29:07
individual. I'm sure you can relate to this as you're not a medical doctor.
29:11
You're you're you're a consumer just like the rest of us, even though
29:14
you're running a company that's in the medical field. So I think you can
29:19
be very compassionate to people. So you do know how overwhelming it is to
29:26
make the right choices when you're trying to take responsibility and be proactive with your
29:32
health. So do you have any advice or how would you guide people?
29:37
And why and why should they do the KBMO tests as one of the protocols
29:42
in that health regiment that they're going to be investing in. As you just
29:47
said, many people are paying out a pocket for your testing. Yeah,
29:52
I mean, I think what I found is that you know, we've been
29:55
fortunate that we've I think over the last ten years has been a move to
29:57
more pay understanding that you know, they need to take control of their own
30:03
health and invest in their health. You know, as your ages and timers
30:06
suggest, you know that you don't get there by accident. You get there
30:10
by investing and being aware of what's on the market. And so what we've
30:12
tried to do is partner with the right positions who you know, it's a
30:18
great test, but my view is, you know, it goes from good
30:22
to great by working with a good provider who can look at the supplements and
30:26
other things that involved. So we're very much focused on the idea that you
30:29
know, let's provide a good test and then some of the compliance tools around
30:33
that and the provider network, which I think kind of brings it all in
30:38
together because you know, as ever in life, it's very rarely one thing
30:42
that you need to be working on. It's it's everything and around. It's
30:45
lifestyle. It's you know, and lifestyle encompass to many things, isn't it.
30:51
So the idea here was to think, how do we come up with
30:53
a test, and how's the best route to kind of giving patients access to
30:57
that, and our viewers. Let's do it through a good networker providers that
31:03
has grown, you know, who are looking at these these kind of areas.
31:06
And so that's how we've found the best way to do it is work
31:10
within a provider network. And again, if patients are you know, are
31:14
looking at you know, who's the right person to work with, they can
31:18
contact us. And we've got an extensive networker providers out there now. And
31:22
again we've got some people who we work with remotely. I can think of
31:26
a lady called doctor Philkahina, who's, you know, one of our star
31:30
providers. She's been doing this for ten years plus now. And on top
31:36
of that, you know, she runs all our meal planning. So we
31:38
provide these compliance tools for patients so they can get their results on their phone.
31:44
They have a meal plan which we now individualize per patient. So again
31:48
when you get your results, you've got something to follow. Because to your
31:52
point in terms of things being overwhelmed overwhelming, Michelle, we keep our report
31:56
to three pages. And that's not because doctor kind of round of things to
32:00
say after three pages. That was because the most patients and most providers everyone's
32:06
busy. We want to try and keep it so simple to understand and communicate
32:10
that messaging to our clients. So the report is color coded red being bad,
32:15
green being good. So again often and you know, I'll put my
32:20
consumer hat on. You know, I've sat opposite doctors who kind of run
32:24
through results and find numbers at me that frankly mean nothing to me. So
32:29
that was one of my kind of things. Can we make this report easy
32:32
for the layman like myself to understand versus going, I want to be the
32:37
smartest guy in the room, I'm going to give you all these strange kind
32:39
of spider webs and numbers up the ying yang which don't mean anything, not
32:44
to the average consumer. And so that's why we've tried to do it,
32:46
is to simplify it. So you know it was done by a PhD,
32:51
but we want, more importantly for the ninety nine percent of the rest of
32:54
us who aren't PhDs to be able to understand it. And so I think
32:58
that's where as you say, not being a doctor is kind of helpful because
33:01
I can look at it as a consumer and say, how can we give
33:05
you a report that you might understand? Well, what's the first question I'm
33:08
going to ask as a consumer Okay, you've told you've tested me for all
33:12
these foods? What can I So that's why we put in place, you
33:15
know, the meal plan, so they've got something they can actually follow and
33:19
move forward on their journey to wellness or agelessness or timelessness. So that was
33:23
the thinking behind, you know, our testing is make it simple for the
33:29
patient to understand, because then you'll get good compliance. Because if we don't
33:32
get compliance to your point, that's when patients get kind of a bit grumpy
33:37
because they're going, I spent money on something, but I don't understand.
33:40
Now I've got the results, what are the next pathways forward to actually turn
33:46
that piece of paper into a meaningful change in my lifestyle. So so this
33:52
is the you know, interesting question that I think a consumer has, at
33:58
least I do a consumer. So how can a little prick of blood that
34:04
you know, at the A form show, they put you put your finger
34:07
out, they prick your finger and they put it on a card and that
34:10
tells you so much information. How do you go from A to B to
34:15
get that prick of blood to tell you one hundred and seventy six food sensitivities
34:22
and then further to that now with your new products gut barrier panel, which
34:27
we'll talk about. How can one little prick of blood tell you so much?
34:31
Yeah, So it's interesting so that the blood cards that we use were
34:37
first invented for infects disease testing as well as helstick testing, which is done
34:43
in infant still today. So they use that way as a as a very
34:46
convenient way of storing the blood. And then what we do is when that
34:52
comes back to the lab, it goes for a process evolution, which basically
34:57
means kind of taking that dehydrate example, and rehydrating it, and then we
35:01
then take that sample and then and then run that in the in the testing.
35:06
But again, if you think of things like twenty three and me,
35:07
you're you're doing a boot, you know, a buckle swab on the inside
35:12
of your mouth, You'll take a bit of spit and then you know,
35:14
they come out with thousands of genes and piece of information there. So the
35:17
healthcare industry is used to taking a kind of almost dehydrated sample, rehydrating it
35:24
as it were, and some of the patients or amplifying that signal as they
35:29
do in kind of the genetic world to kind of enable it to kind of
35:32
give you the answers that we can. So that's where we were very fortunate
35:37
again with Dr Dorwell, how do we create a easy to use sample,
35:42
and now we do many Many of these kits are sent to patients at home
35:46
to run the test at home, it gets sent back to us and then
35:50
they can go and talk to their provided to review those results. So again
35:53
it's as you say, it's an easy to do test, a little finger
35:57
stick. It gets mailed back into us, the results get sent to the
36:00
provider and then the provider can then review those with their patients. So again
36:05
we try to make this as simple as we can and it's fascinating for me.
36:07
We're always looking at are there other technologies and techniques that can enhance and
36:13
improve that process even further, So we're constantly on the lookout for other ways
36:16
of doing it than we're doing it now. But again it's a it's a
36:21
very robust technology and it's you know, using things like Eliza plates and elect
36:25
alsas which we make those plates here in the house. So again we've got
36:30
a manufacturing facility which is done under FDA Register registration and ISO thirteen forty five,
36:37
and then our two clear high complexity labs are under clear guidelines as well.
36:42
So again it's a highly regulated industry that we work in, and again
36:46
we like that environment because again it enables us to give I think, very
36:51
accurate and reproducible results put out to our patients. And they're all the providers
36:55
and more importantly their patients. What as just as in terms of results of
37:01
over time with you know, ten thousand providers, you've obviously seen a number
37:05
of different results. And what would you say if you want to make a
37:10
list, what are the five most common food sensitivities that you see? Um,
37:17
I mean the big three are eggs, milk, and wheat, and
37:22
then they can vary from there, but again those are the there's probably six,
37:24
but those are those are the three that I think of because we developed
37:29
a rapid test and when we said, you know, what are the three
37:31
things we should put on there, we said, let's do eggs, milk,
37:34
and wheat because they're be synonymous in lots of things. And have found
37:37
that to be a good grouping of of of the big three as it were,
37:42
to kind of measure four. Now we measure for one hundred and seventy
37:45
six and again we were thinking when we kind of expanded our panels to think
37:51
about you know that if you think about, you know, how do people
37:54
how are people exposed to some of these foods and so, and we measure
37:59
color and additives now and what as well, because there's three different ways of
38:02
doing it. Is it in a processed food, you know, is it
38:06
in a supplement, or is it in a personal hygiene product? And so
38:09
a good example of that is I was talking provider the other day and she
38:13
said, you know, they had a nine year old boy who was very
38:15
lethargic and they really couldn't work out, you know, what was what was
38:20
going on. But we tested him for the colorings and additives and he came
38:25
up really high for benzera acid, which turned out was in his shampoo conditioner
38:30
and his mum's washing pattern. They eliminated the benzoa acid and within a couple
38:36
of weeks he was back to being a normal nine year old bounty boy with
38:38
plenty of energy. So I think the reason I mentioned that is a those
38:43
colorings and additives are increasingly in processed foods, supplements, and personal hygiene products.
38:50
In fact, I think I was reading an ask for the other day
38:52
that said, you know a lot of patients who are you know, over
38:55
eating or have obesity issues, fifty percent of the food that they can assuming
39:00
is processed. So on that basis, you should really be measuring those colorings
39:05
and additives that we include in all our pals because they're increasingly showing up in
39:10
the in the in the food chain where they never were meant to. And
39:15
a good example of that, you know, you think of the red dyes
39:17
and things like red velvet cake that was originally invented by Bayer after World War
39:22
Two to color plastics and with no concept that that would then end up,
39:27
you know, all these years later being used for you know, consumed being
39:32
consumed by patients, by patients in terms of in red velvet cake. So
39:36
there's a other examples of that where you know, some of these colorings and
39:39
additives have been i have been now in the food chain and you know they
39:45
would never created to kind of come up with that way. So you have
39:50
this new product, a gut barrier panel. Could you talk to us about
39:53
nulin and occluding and all the aspects of what it means absolute and the reason
40:00
we came up with looking at the gut Barret panel, which is an essence
40:04
for consumes, is really a leaky gut panel. Was because when we when
40:08
when I got it first got involved ten years ago, I'd wander the streets
40:13
of New Hampshire at the time as I was looking after looking for some sales,
40:16
and in between the kind of tattoo stores and the karate shops, there's
40:20
quite a few natural paths in New Hampshire and so we were talking to them
40:22
all about, you know, here's our food sensitivey test. You know,
40:25
are you going to adopt this or not? Unfortunately lots of them did,
40:30
but some of them would say to me, James, I don't test for
40:32
food sensivities because I think my patient's got leaky gup. And so it kind
40:37
of stuck in my mind that when you say, what do you mean you
40:38
think are you testing for that? No, no, we think they've got
40:42
leaky gup. So I thought, why don't we come up with a panel
40:45
that enables them rather than to guess that that they can test for that.
40:49
And so that's what we did, and we said and again, if you
40:52
think about leaky gut and any of these gut issues, generally, it's a
40:57
bit of a continuum. It's not just one single marker can occure us all.
41:00
So we thought, let's put down a number of markers that can help
41:05
us look at the kind of back gup barrier in terms of those type junctions
41:08
and performance. And so we came up with three markers, as you mentioned.
41:13
So we count of Canada, which we use as a kind of early
41:15
kind of canary in the coal mine, is as indicator that there may well
41:20
be some leaky gut going on. Then we developed our very own zonulin assay,
41:25
which again looks at zonulin, which is a marker of how well those
41:30
type junctions are functioning, so are they opening and closing. And the other
41:35
great thing about zonulin is it's what they call a reversible marker. So if
41:39
you've done some damage there or some issues with the right protocols, it can
41:44
be it can be repaired and badly. We thought, you know, we've
41:46
looked at an early stage marker, we've got the how well they're functioning,
41:52
why don't we look at the structure of those type junctions as well. So
41:54
we've started to measure occluding and so those are the kind of three markers that
42:00
we measure and we look at them with two different kind of lens if it
42:04
were. We look at IgA one and two, which is basically i.
42:08
GA is I think called a secreatory marker, which means it's found localized in
42:13
the gut. And so again we thought, let's look at IA as a
42:15
localized marker, which is kind of early stage, so if any of those
42:20
markers are elevated, then it's an earlier stage onset of what might be going
42:24
on. And then we looked at the IgG in compliment, which we run
42:28
on all our foods, to say that's more later stage and systemic, so
42:31
it's gone probably beyond the gut at that point. So that's how we came
42:36
up with this panel to give people thinking of leaky gup more of the continuum
42:40
than a single marker is going to cure all. So we've found it's been
42:45
an amazing time since we launched set in September. We've been on a very
42:50
steep upward kind of trajectory since then, so I think providers and patients again
42:55
are loving the concept. This has been almost two tests for the price of
42:59
one. We've been very careful not to increase our pricing, and again we
43:02
can do that because we develop and manufacture all the products in the house,
43:07
so again we're not seeing some of the inflationary pressures that you just buy these
43:13
tests from third parties. So again, because we do everything ourselves, that's
43:17
enabled us to pass on a much more attractive proposition to our patients and the
43:22
providers at the same price as we were when we were just looking at food
43:28
sensitivities. Now you don't have a supply chain because you're vertically integrated. So
43:32
yeah, that's that's a very important point. So some of the bigger companies
43:37
are going, well, China is not going to letting us have what we
43:38
need. That's not our problem. We're everything we have is here, and
43:44
again we've worked very hard to make sure that we can. We're in were,
43:46
as you say, vertically integrated to control the costs and kind of old
43:51
fashioned, but let's do you know, let's look at everything locally so we
43:54
can source everything locally, and we've tried to do that as much as we
43:58
probably can. Okay, if you if if the individual, can you still
44:04
hear me? Yep? Oh okay, because my power just went off.
44:08
I don't know why we're having we're having issues here. The gremlins in your
44:15
house today? Yeah, Tony, can you am? I? Okay?
44:21
I think I think you and I are good, but I don't know if
44:22
Tony can hear me? You're good? Oh? Okay, okay, I'll
44:27
keep going there. My screen went black. Um okay, it says entering
44:31
power save mode whatever that means. Um. So, because we're almost at
44:37
the end, James, I want to cover a couple more things that are
44:40
very important. If someone were to eliminate all the food sensitivities that come up
44:45
on their chests with that automatically cure their other side of the gut barrier panel
44:52
if they're showing leaky gut or at least the beginnings of leaky gut. Is
44:57
that A Is that A one? Two steps? I mean, there's two
45:02
different elements if you think about it. The foods are trying to identify which
45:07
food to cause the inflammation. And again if you eliminate those foods, and
45:10
you should bring down the in planetary response and then definitely see a cessation of
45:15
the symptoms you're presenting with. When it comes to the gut barrier panel,
45:21
we recommend looking at usually a kind of We've identified three really good companies chemical
45:28
biotics, nutritional frontiers a neutrodyne who have excellent products they're going to help treat
45:34
the leaky gut. So what we'd say, if any of the six markers
45:37
on the leaky gup panel are elevated, then you know your torture provider,
45:43
who will then kind of recommend one of these good gut healing protocols. And
45:46
so that's been one of the great things is working with some of these real
45:51
experts in the field of Okay, so we've identified the problem, what are
45:54
some of the protocols we can help give to providers patients as well of those
46:00
supplements that make sense because as you mentioned former shell, that could be again
46:05
a very confusing field for patients in terms of trying to you know, work
46:09
out which is the right supplement. So we've gone back to some of the
46:13
best companies in the industry and said, what are the best supplements you would
46:16
recommend if you're looking to treat inflammation via the food as well as look at
46:23
the gut barrier panel in terms of trying to help patients, you know,
46:27
pal the gut. So I think it's rather than a you know, do
46:30
one then do two, it's almost like I'd say, look at both areas,
46:35
and then the third one would be looking at some level of supplementation and
46:38
working fourth one with a really good provider to help you attack these things on
46:44
multiple fronts. We could you do us a favor and have your office send
46:47
me the list in an email of those three companies and the products and the
46:54
actual products like if it's a probiotic or or you know what everybody a product
47:00
is that that would be good for people to know about. I'm going to
47:04
put that on my website with our podcast if you'll have someone do that that
47:08
way people can see it. And then again, Michelle, that might be
47:13
a great one to talk through with doctor Silverman on the base do now you've
47:15
got him coming up the next few weeks, because again he's he's a provider.
47:21
You know, we're just we're just the loadly laboratory and sare so you
47:23
know, he can he can help walk you through, you know, where
47:27
it makes sense to use those various products. Yeah, and he likes Ortho
47:30
Molecular. He already talked to me about that company. I don't know if
47:36
you work with them at all, but I think I think there's some great
47:39
products out there, so again he can certainly be excited. Well, this
47:43
is why one of the reasons I'm asking is because I know from experience that
47:46
probiotics that has you know, one of the worst records of getting through the
47:51
gi tracks of the acid in the stomach, so it never gets so it's
47:54
kind of people throw their money away. So I want to be sure that
47:59
our viewers and listeners will know which of these the doctors like and the and
48:06
the professionals like you know, are efficacious and they're not going to throw their
48:10
money away, but they're going to get results, and they're going to get
48:14
results. So if you can do that right now, I provide those three
48:17
four years and said we've asked the experts, they're going to come up with
48:20
one of the best products that they've come up with us. So we'll happily
48:23
share those with you. And you're listening, Yeah, that would be great.
48:27
You know. In Ageless in Time as we try to be not only
48:31
generalized so that people get a big picture of information, but we also like
48:36
to go very specific to protocols, to ways that you can take the steps
48:42
that are going to follow the macro with the micro so to speak. So
48:46
yes, we like to give concrete information to people, and we also have
48:52
a segment of our website an icon called Michelle Recommends, and on there if
49:00
it is if it is a company that does have product, for example,
49:04
we will recommend if we're if we're convinced, we will recommend those products.
49:08
And usually the guests, our guests will offer some kind of a consideration to
49:15
our viewers. So all that is good. We're trying to integrate everything so
49:20
people can we can make this an easy voyage and journey for people to to
49:25
great health. All right, So because we're coming to the end, I
49:30
want to be sure that we do ask you whether you want to offer anyone
49:37
that's viewing and listening today or will be on the internet, anything to get
49:45
them to go to some of the providers to get this test. So just
49:50
give us a little bit of what you'd like to offer and what you'd like
49:52
how you like to incentivize our our viewers on using your product. Again,
50:00
as I said, we work kind of really through providers versus direct consumer.
50:05
But having said that, we have an excellent provider in doctor Silka Heiner who
50:09
I mentioned earlier, who does all the meal planning but has been is a
50:14
doctor of nutrition in Germany and as I say, has been working in this
50:19
field for twenty plus years. So what we would do is if you contact
50:23
kbmode Diagnostics, we can link you up the Silker and then what we'll do
50:29
is we'll give you for one of her packages of running the test and then
50:34
reviewing the results. And we're happy to give a twenty percent off discount for
50:37
anyone who who quotes ages some timeless the Silker, and then I'll make sure
50:44
that we do a deal of twenty percent off any of the any of your
50:47
patients who or all listeners rather who come on and kind of work with Silker.
50:52
And so the best way to get hold of her is if you contact
50:55
KBMOA info at kbmode Aagnostics dot com at KBMO Diagnosis dot com. I'm sure
51:05
Michelle put that up on the website anyway, and then that way, and
51:07
we'll give you the that code of ages and timeless if you quote that,
51:13
then I'll make sure Silk does a twenty percent discount, okay. And then
51:16
yeah, and when you give me that list to put on, Michelle recommends
51:19
would you add her her name to that? Even though I know, yeah,
51:23
we can we can give you doctor doctor Silka's details and then that you'll
51:29
being good check. And then one more I did find out coincidentally that my
51:34
physician in Beverly Hills, doctor Nina slash Jeff, which is sac hd ev
51:42
users, has used your product you're testing, and that was exciting to me
51:47
because I, you know, obviously didn't know you before I went to Las
51:51
Vegas to the show, and then when I was chatting with them, they
51:54
said, oh, yeah, we've been using their tests. So um.
51:59
So, her number if people want to reach her and use her as a
52:05
provider and ask for the KBMO test is area code three one zero seven seven
52:12
seven seven five one one. And doctor Nina s achd Ev she's fabulous.
52:20
She's really great with immune health and hormone health. Well she's an anti aging
52:27
physician, so and I will add that to my website as well. Well.
52:32
James, I knew the time would go by really fast, and sorry,
52:36
sorry we couldn't do the video today. But I think it's all good
52:39
and that we've covered a lot of ground and you've been great and very knowledgeable
52:45
of course and helping people without there's no salesmanship. You don't need to sell
52:50
this This product sells itself. And so that's the great that's the jack.
52:55
That's a nice thing being a small private company, you know, it's it's
52:59
all about my making sure that we can service and give good product services.
53:01
You know, that's what drives us. It's you know, we've got a
53:05
great team of people here. We're very fortunate that you know, we can
53:07
employ some such smart team of good local people here who then can then impart
53:13
that knowledge, you know, all around the world, Frank, is what
53:15
we're doing now. So again we're very fortunate that we can offer these such
53:17
great products and again, you know, we don't need to push them.
53:22
It's one of those things that we've now got this great word of mouth because
53:24
again the team does such a great job of looking after the clients that we
53:29
have. So again it's a great privilege to be running this team. I
53:32
think this is really the next step. You know, people are getting smarter
53:37
about the responsibility of their own health and I think recognizing, i mean,
53:42
artificial intelligence is going to become one of the big a telomere management, DNA
53:49
management, stemselves, all these things are so much more technologically based, and
53:53
people are going to have so much more information through the internet available to you
54:00
know, to avoid the pitfalls and try to take the steps that are going
54:05
to work, like like food sensitivity testing. It's a it's a baseline really
54:10
because eighty percent of our immune system is in our GI track. So if
54:15
you don't focus on your your gut, you're you're maybe just skirting the main
54:21
culprit for your illness. And if you can just fix your gut, you
54:24
might find, in fact fact probably will find that other things symptoms that you
54:30
have, will will clear up. So I think I think, I think
54:35
you hit it on the head, Michelle. It's like if you can focus
54:37
on some of those basics, like what you consume and again yeah, I
54:40
don't even complicate it beyond that, and then work out what those are damaging
54:45
or actually give to your immune system, and you're going to get a long
54:47
way to age just in time myself. And I love that you keep giving
54:52
me a plug. Thank you. Well. You know, when I when
54:53
I created this podcast three years ago, it really was with that intention that
55:00
people could live aipelessly and timelessly as long as they take the proper steps,
55:06
and that requires information is power, and that requires giving every week that we
55:10
do this information that's going to empower you to be the best version of yourself
55:16
and to live a long and healthy life. Who wants to live a long
55:20
life if you're not healthy. Absolutely, So thank you so much, James.
55:24
I really appreciate your being much pleasure my budget. Thank you for giving
55:28
me the opportunity to speak to your very knowledgeable base. I thank you.
55:31
And I'm supposed to tell you all today that you're supposed to I never think
55:38
to even sell my podcast, but I guess you're supposed to hit the subscribe
55:42
button that we're going to have on the screen if you want to keep knowing
55:46
more of our podcasts and when we're producing a new one. And also you
55:52
can hit the bell, ring the bell if you like what you heard today.
55:57
So yeah, I guess I'm not very alz about this, but I
56:01
you know, I want people. I want as many people as possible to
56:05
avail themselves of the information that we provide through the guests like James White,
56:10
who are so gracious to give us their time and share with us their knowledge.
56:15
So thank you very much everybody, and have a beautiful day, take
56:20
care. Thank you all.