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An Interesting, Vastly Incomplete Look at Baseball Cards · Stuff You Should Know

• 0:01
  Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff you should know, a production of iHeartRadio.
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: Steve Rich and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh and
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: there's Chuck and it's just us today because we left
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: Jerry back in Vegas and one of us has to
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: go get her and we haven't cost a coin yet
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: to see who's who that's going to be. I'm not
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: going back to Vegas. I'm not either. The smoky casinos
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: destroyed my already weary, allergy ridden throat. Yeah, it wasn't
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: pleasant for my throat either. But we should probably tell
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: everybody why we were inhaling secondhand cigarette smoke in Las
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: Vegas recently and why Jerry is still there. Go ahead, well,
• 0:44
  Speaker 1: it's because we were honored this year by the Podcast
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: Academies ambi's basically the Oscars of podcasting with the Governor's Award,
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: which basically says, hey, you've been at this for a
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: while and we think you're doing a pretty good job,
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: and why don't you think about hanging it up? And
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: here's an award on the way out the door, right
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: And we were like, but we're a big career and
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: they're like, nope, too late, you got the award. You've
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: accepted it. You have to stop now. Yeah, it was
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: really cool. It's kind of a lifetime achievement. And we've
• 1:15
  Speaker 1: gotten a Webby or two here and there and some
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: other things that you know, it's always nice to get
• 1:20
  Speaker 1: those things, but this felt like a genuine honor and
• 1:23
  Speaker 1: like the one that we should go pick up in person.
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: And we had a great time and a epic dinner
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: celebration dinner afterward with Jerry and her friend and and
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: my friend and Nathan who does our marketing, and it
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: was just a really great celebration. It really was. It
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: was a wonderful experience. So thanks a lot Podcast Academy
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: because that was really cool. So it's really neat. Yeah,
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: and got heffed? Did you pick They didn't give us
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: one on stage because they're mailing them. But did you
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: pick that thing up in the green room? No? Did you? Yeah? Dude,
• 1:56
  Speaker 1: it's it's heffed. It's got heffed. I mean it looks
• 1:59
  Speaker 1: like it. It's like a genuine bona fide statuette. Yeah.
• 2:03
  Speaker 1: All my other statues you can blow on them and
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: they tip over. You're like, oh it's hollow. Yeah, this
• 2:09
  Speaker 1: one's got halfed. That's awesome. Yeah, thank you again to
• 2:12
  Speaker 1: the Podcast Academy, and honestly, thank you to everybody who's
• 2:14
  Speaker 1: ever recognized us with an award. That's really meaningful every time.
• 2:18
  Speaker 1: So thanks, Yeah, buddy, Well, and we said this you
• 2:21
  Speaker 1: know on stage. In fact, you buttoned it up nicely.
• 2:23
  Speaker 1: But you know, the listeners or the reason we have
• 2:26
  Speaker 1: this career in this job that we've been doing for
• 2:28
  Speaker 1: so long. And I know it sounds trite, but like
• 2:31
  Speaker 1: we wouldn't have gotten this award or even be doing
• 2:33
  Speaker 1: this job if we didn't have the amazing support over
• 2:35
  Speaker 1: the years from you guys. Absolutely means a lot. So
• 2:40
  Speaker 1: we should probably get going on baseball cards, right, Yeah,
• 2:44
  Speaker 1: another quick CoA for baseball cards. We have learned over
• 2:48
  Speaker 1: the years the hard way that when you do a
• 2:50
  Speaker 1: topic that is it's just like yeah, it's not like oh,
• 2:55
  Speaker 1: ballpoint pins or this or that. When some people are
• 2:58
  Speaker 1: very passionate about this thing, that we can get ourselves
• 3:02
  Speaker 1: into trouble because we get little things wrong here and
• 3:05
  Speaker 1: there that they think are major things. So we respect
• 3:10
  Speaker 1: the baseball card community and just want to not apologize
• 3:13
  Speaker 1: in advance, but just say that you know, we don't
• 3:16
  Speaker 1: know nearly as much about this as you do, so
• 3:20
  Speaker 1: so be kind. I think it's well put. I'm just
• 3:22
  Speaker 1: going to come out and admit right now, I cannot
• 3:25
  Speaker 1: find the difference between a bonus card, an insert and
• 3:28
  Speaker 1: a subset card. Okay, they may be all the same thing,
• 3:32
  Speaker 1: but I am terrified that there's a slight difference and
• 3:35
  Speaker 1: that we're going to get chewed up for it. Well,
• 3:38
  Speaker 1: I didn't even know that we were going to be
• 3:39
  Speaker 1: comparing those three things. So I'm in big trouble. Did
• 3:42
  Speaker 1: you collect baseball cards as a youth? Here's my deal
• 3:46
  Speaker 1: is I have somewhere a box of probably I don't
• 3:51
  Speaker 1: even want to hazard a guess, maybe five hundred, two hundred,
• 3:55
  Speaker 1: let's say two hundred cards of different kinds. Have some
• 3:58
  Speaker 1: old Star Wars card So I've got a few football cards. Yeah,
• 4:02
  Speaker 1: I have some baseball cards, but I was never a collector.
• 4:06
  Speaker 1: I would just get them as any kid who wasn't like,
• 4:09
  Speaker 1: oh I need to start collecting something gets them, which
• 4:12
  Speaker 1: is like, oh, sure they're in the stocking, or might
• 4:14
  Speaker 1: buy one here or there. But to answer your question, no,
• 4:19
  Speaker 1: I was never like a collector of baseball cards or
• 4:22
  Speaker 1: any card. That Star Wars card thing. Sounds familiar. I
• 4:25
  Speaker 1: think you talked about did you discover your collection again
• 4:28
  Speaker 1: recently in the last couple of years or something? Not
• 4:33
  Speaker 1: recently recently, but I could see we've been doing this
• 4:35
  Speaker 1: a long time, my friend. Yeah, recently, meaning like since
• 4:39
  Speaker 1: two thousand and eight. Yeah, we've been doing how long
• 4:44
  Speaker 1: have we been doing this show Governor's Award? Long? Is
• 4:46
  Speaker 1: what I'm just gonna say from now on. So okay,
• 4:50
  Speaker 1: So I actually was a collector. I was a kid
• 4:54
  Speaker 1: collector in that like every month I could not wait
• 4:57
  Speaker 1: for the new back Price Guide to come out. That
• 5:00
  Speaker 1: to me was like the Bible. Wow. Um, I had
• 5:03
  Speaker 1: friends that would like steal cards from me, like a
• 5:06
  Speaker 1: real collector at like age eleven twelve? Right now, Why
• 5:10
  Speaker 1: because you weren't that into baseball, were you? No? No, No,
• 5:14
  Speaker 1: I wasn't. There's something different. You don't have to be
• 5:19
  Speaker 1: into baseball to really be into baseball cards. It's a
• 5:22
  Speaker 1: really weird thing. Like it's impossible not to know a
• 5:26
  Speaker 1: lot more about baseball than you otherwise would if you
• 5:30
  Speaker 1: weren't collecting baseball cards, but means, well, no thing about it.
• 5:34
  Speaker 1: So like if you weren't, if you were, if you
• 5:35
  Speaker 1: were just into flying kites. Okay, you'd probably know almost
• 5:39
  Speaker 1: nothing about baseball if you weren't into baseball. But you
• 5:42
  Speaker 1: can collect baseball cards and you're gonna know a lot
• 5:45
  Speaker 1: more about baseball and baseball players, and you would if
• 5:49
  Speaker 1: you were just into kites. But that doesn't mean you're
• 5:51
  Speaker 1: actually you want to sit down and watch a baseball
• 5:54
  Speaker 1: game given time. Yeah, yeah, I get you. Baseball cards
• 5:57
  Speaker 1: are like that. It's really weird. I think that the
• 5:59
  Speaker 1: majority of people who collect baseball cards are into baseball,
• 6:03
  Speaker 1: but it's not requisite. Yeah. When I went through mine
• 6:07
  Speaker 1: recently out because I guess it was semi recently, because
• 6:09
  Speaker 1: I was like, I wonder if you know I have
• 6:10
  Speaker 1: some gem in here worth twenty grand and I didn't.
• 6:15
  Speaker 1: I think the best card I had was a Wade
• 6:19
  Speaker 1: Bogs rookie not wasn't a rookie, but it was like
• 6:23
  Speaker 1: a first year card. But that's a no. No No, no,
• 6:26
  Speaker 1: a first year like in the big league's card, not
• 6:30
  Speaker 1: like their rookie Minor league card or whatever. No, it
• 6:32
  Speaker 1: was the first year in the Big zis the rookie card.
• 6:35
  Speaker 1: It wasn't worth anything, Let's put it that way. So
• 6:38
  Speaker 1: you're like, please, don't want to end this conversation. Yeah,
• 6:40
  Speaker 1: because I looked it up and I think I sent
• 6:42
  Speaker 1: it to my friend who's a Red Sox fan. I
• 6:44
  Speaker 1: was like, here you go, you can have this. Oh
• 6:45
  Speaker 1: that was kind of you. Yeah. I discovered my old collection.
• 6:49
  Speaker 1: I had several hundred, and they were just loose. Any
• 6:53
  Speaker 1: good ones I started to go through. I was like,
• 6:55
  Speaker 1: I don't feel like doing this, so I just donated,
• 6:57
  Speaker 1: well because I knew that they there weren't any like
• 7:00
  Speaker 1: amazingly ridiculously valuable ones, in part because when I was
• 7:05
  Speaker 1: collecting it was smack dab in the middle of what's
• 7:09
  Speaker 1: called the junk era of baseball cards. Yeah, because the
• 7:12
  Speaker 1: market was so flooded. We'll talk all about it. But
• 7:15
  Speaker 1: to me, Chuck, just researching this and going back and
• 7:19
  Speaker 1: seeing like the design of some of those cards, like
• 7:22
  Speaker 1: seeing how Don Mattingly is like like just in the
• 7:26
  Speaker 1: midst of like tossing his bat to run to first base,
• 7:30
  Speaker 1: and like in nineteen eighty eight tops card, Like just
• 7:33
  Speaker 1: seeing these things. It's just these neural pathways that haven't
• 7:37
  Speaker 1: been like stimulated in decades are going off, and I'm
• 7:40
  Speaker 1: just like in nostalgia Heaven looking at all this stuff.
• 7:43
  Speaker 1: Because I forgot school. Well all of it looked like.
• 7:46
  Speaker 1: So it's been kind of a nice little journey down
• 7:48
  Speaker 1: the yellow brick road. But I want to circle back
• 7:51
  Speaker 1: to our CoA and say that doesn't mean that I
• 7:53
  Speaker 1: remember like all the ins and outs either. Yeah, I'm
• 7:58
  Speaker 1: no expert. I just was a big time fan back
• 8:00
  Speaker 1: in the day. That's cool. That surprises me too, but
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: I love it. Another little Josh factoid to stick in
• 8:06
  Speaker 1: my hip pocket. We need a little jingle for that,
• 8:09
  Speaker 1: like we have for Colon. So we're going to kind
• 8:12
  Speaker 1: of breeze through the earliest days of baseball card trading.
• 8:15
  Speaker 1: So we're not in here for two hours. But the earliest,
• 8:18
  Speaker 1: earliest sort of ancestors of baseball cards were trade cards
• 8:23
  Speaker 1: that you know today you might see a business that
• 8:27
  Speaker 1: hands out a calendar with like the local sports team
• 8:30
  Speaker 1: or something, or refrigerator magnet or something. These are kind
• 8:34
  Speaker 1: of what trade cards were. They were business cards and
• 8:37
  Speaker 1: they said, hey, why don't we just stick something interesting
• 8:40
  Speaker 1: on here so people will keep it. And sometimes that
• 8:43
  Speaker 1: became a baseball player or a baseball team. And these
• 8:47
  Speaker 1: cards weren't. I mean, I guess there may be a
• 8:50
  Speaker 1: market for them in some circles. But it's not like
• 8:55
  Speaker 1: this is considered like a tradeable baseball card today. I
• 8:58
  Speaker 1: don't think, right, No, I think that there's probably there's
• 9:03
  Speaker 1: collectors out there who collect that in the same way
• 9:05
  Speaker 1: there's people out there who collect like old timey potato
• 9:09
  Speaker 1: chip tunes, you know what I mean. It's like super antique,
• 9:12
  Speaker 1: and I think it's probably a niche market in the
• 9:15
  Speaker 1: baseball card market, you know what I mean, Yes, but
• 9:19
  Speaker 1: they are. It's questionable whether you can be like, this
• 9:22
  Speaker 1: is a baseball card, and there are a lot of
• 9:24
  Speaker 1: people kind of putting baseball teams and baseball players on
• 9:28
  Speaker 1: things at around the same time. So there's a lot
• 9:31
  Speaker 1: of different competing first baseball card ever, but the one
• 9:36
  Speaker 1: that usually gets pointed to is an eighteen sixty nine
• 9:41
  Speaker 1: Cincinnati Red Stockings card by Peck and Snyder, who were
• 9:46
  Speaker 1: and apparently still are a sporting goods manufacturer who took
• 9:50
  Speaker 1: a team photo super Victorian. There's like heavy curtains on
• 9:54
  Speaker 1: the edges of the photo and everything super Cepia, I mean,
• 9:58
  Speaker 1: just Cepia to the max. And then on the back
• 10:01
  Speaker 1: there's like a drawing in an advertisement for Peck and
• 10:04
  Speaker 1: Snyder's location on Nassau Street in New York, and a
• 10:09
  Speaker 1: lot of people are like, this is this is really it?
• 10:11
  Speaker 1: This is the genuine progenitor of the baseball card. Yeah,
• 10:15
  Speaker 1: and that one, I believe, and Ed helped us out
• 10:17
  Speaker 1: with this one he found that was valued at a
• 10:19
  Speaker 1: couple hundred grand. Certainly no slouch card wise, right if
• 10:24
  Speaker 1: you happen to have this one. In the eighteen eighties
• 10:27
  Speaker 1: is when things really kind of started taking shape, and
• 10:30
  Speaker 1: that's when tobacco got involved. There was a farmer named
• 10:35
  Speaker 1: James Buchanan Duke who started putting just cardboard cards and
• 10:39
  Speaker 1: cigarette packs to keep them from getting you know, bin
• 10:42
  Speaker 1: up and stuff when you sit on them. And they
• 10:46
  Speaker 1: started printing pictures of things on those cards to make
• 10:49
  Speaker 1: them interesting. And sometimes it might be a movie star
• 10:52
  Speaker 1: and sometimes it might be a sports star. And I
• 10:56
  Speaker 1: believe in eighteen eighty six is when the old Judge
• 10:59
  Speaker 1: cigarette company started including baseball players. And this is also
• 11:04
  Speaker 1: looked at as a kind of a milestone for a
• 11:08
  Speaker 1: couple of reasons. One was because you got a random
• 11:11
  Speaker 1: card that you didn't know you were going to get.
• 11:14
  Speaker 1: It's not like it was a cigarette pack for you know,
• 11:17
  Speaker 1: I know it was I can't name a baseball player
• 11:20
  Speaker 1: from Beckton, so I'm not even gonna try. It was random,
• 11:23
  Speaker 1: just like kids like you later on would buy packs
• 11:27
  Speaker 1: of cards, like not knowing who you're going to get,
• 11:29
  Speaker 1: and the other thing it was called a premium, which
• 11:31
  Speaker 1: is basically like this is just an extra thing and
• 11:34
  Speaker 1: something you were already buying, right, although I will argue
• 11:38
  Speaker 1: that the gum part was not White kids were buying
• 11:40
  Speaker 1: baseball cards, right. That gum was not good. No, it wasn't.
• 11:44
  Speaker 1: But that's how baseball cards later on would kind of
• 11:47
  Speaker 1: get their their restart well as we'll see, but that
• 11:50
  Speaker 1: I mean. But so that's kind of how it went
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: for about a century. Like they were random and then
• 11:56
  Speaker 1: they were extras to what you were buying. An old judge. Actually,
• 12:00
  Speaker 1: like you said, I think it was eighteen eighty six
• 12:02
  Speaker 1: that they were released their first That set, it's called
• 12:04
  Speaker 1: the N one sixty seven set is considered the first
• 12:08
  Speaker 1: official set of baseball cards. Pretty cool. Yeah, so you
• 12:12
  Speaker 1: can thank cigarette manufacturers for introducing baseball cards to the world.
• 12:16
  Speaker 1: But the thing is, it's not like it was like, okay,
• 12:19
  Speaker 1: it it just started from there and it just kept
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: going and developing. That's not the case, because baseball wasn't
• 12:25
  Speaker 1: the only thing that you would find on these cards
• 12:27
  Speaker 1: and cigarette packs. Eventually, because they were a premium, they
• 12:32
  Speaker 1: were like, well, here, we want you to have something
• 12:34
  Speaker 1: that you actually want. So here's a movie star who
• 12:36
  Speaker 1: you've never heard speak out loud. Here is a bird,
• 12:41
  Speaker 1: Here is a train. You don't know what train is, Well,
• 12:45
  Speaker 1: buckle up because you're going to within the next few years.
• 12:48
  Speaker 1: It wasn't just baseball players, and it wasn't just baseball
• 12:51
  Speaker 1: card collecting. That kind of it didn't develop immediately, I guess,
• 12:56
  Speaker 1: is what I'm trying to say. There were other like
• 12:58
  Speaker 1: detours and side tracks and stuff like that. Yeah, and
• 13:01
  Speaker 1: they you know, these early ones kind of look like
• 13:03
  Speaker 1: you would think they were black and white. Sometimes they
• 13:05
  Speaker 1: had a cepia tone. Color. Photography wasn't really a big thing,
• 13:10
  Speaker 1: at least a widespread thing at this point, and so
• 13:14
  Speaker 1: these cards didn't last long. They faded out in sunlight
• 13:18
  Speaker 1: and just basically being you know, on planet Earth. They
• 13:21
  Speaker 1: would degrade because they weren't very high quality, and a
• 13:25
  Speaker 1: lot of times they weren't even prints. They were actual
• 13:27
  Speaker 1: like photographs that were glued to cardboard. So it's it's
• 13:32
  Speaker 1: kind of a quaint early days of baseball card kind
• 13:35
  Speaker 1: of thing. The Library of Congress. If you ask them,
• 13:38
  Speaker 1: they will say that the first baseball card was a
• 13:42
  Speaker 1: printed photograph of a baseball team that was a souvenir handout.
• 13:47
  Speaker 1: And I'm not one to usually quibble with a Library
• 13:50
  Speaker 1: of Congress, but I'm not sure I would count that
• 13:52
  Speaker 1: as the first baseball card. Some people do, some people don't.
• 13:55
  Speaker 1: I think the one from Um Snyder or Peck and
• 13:58
  Speaker 1: Snyder's typically the one that, as collectors think of as
• 14:01
  Speaker 1: the first one. I'm sure we'll hear from people for sure.
• 14:05
  Speaker 1: You so yeah, oh, I know, so Um. There are
• 14:09
  Speaker 1: a lot of different um eras in baseball card collecting,
• 14:13
  Speaker 1: and they're not they don't necessarily follow chronological order. Weirdly,
• 14:18
  Speaker 1: they more are referred to by where the cards came from.
• 14:22
  Speaker 1: And like I was saying, there are a lot of
• 14:23
  Speaker 1: blind alleys and sidetracks and just weird, weird evolutions of
• 14:28
  Speaker 1: baseball cards. And one of the ways that's evident is
• 14:31
  Speaker 1: that in the late nineteenth century and early twentieth century,
• 14:35
  Speaker 1: there were a lot of different random places that you
• 14:38
  Speaker 1: would get a baseball card. It wasn't standardized yet, so
• 14:43
  Speaker 1: you might get one from the magazine that you subscribe to,
• 14:47
  Speaker 1: or from your cigarette pack, or you bought like a
• 14:50
  Speaker 1: box of biscuits and a baseball baseball card fell out.
• 14:53
  Speaker 1: So I think I think people who collect those kind
• 14:58
  Speaker 1: of cards are okay with things not being particularly standardized
• 15:02
  Speaker 1: and kind of hurly burly instead, because that's how baseball
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: cards were kind of kind of like a train just
• 15:08
  Speaker 1: is kind of like chug, good chug, chug chug, with
• 15:11
  Speaker 1: each like additional chug. A bunch of new baseball cards
• 15:14
  Speaker 1: spat out in different, weird, random places from non existence,
• 15:19
  Speaker 1: a lot of train refs so far today, Well, there's
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: a lot of train stuff going on at the same time.
• 15:25
  Speaker 1: Sure it's of the era. Should we take a break?
• 15:27
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, all right, I'm gonna go study trains, I guess,
• 15:31
  Speaker 1: so I can keep up and we'll be right back,
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: all right. So, if you're looking at a modern baseball
• 15:59
  Speaker 1: car card, and you know, we're not jumping forward in
• 16:01
  Speaker 1: time that much yet, I'm just kind of talking about
• 16:03
  Speaker 1: the labeling of the cards. You're gonna probably see the
• 16:07
  Speaker 1: company that made it. You're going to see the player's name,
• 16:11
  Speaker 1: maybe a collector's number on the card if there was one,
• 16:15
  Speaker 1: there might be some additional things on there, like you
• 16:18
  Speaker 1: know how many sets were made that year. It might
• 16:21
  Speaker 1: be a set name or a subset name, so you
• 16:25
  Speaker 1: might see something like Ed gave an example two thousand
• 16:29
  Speaker 1: and four Bowmen Chrome number two sixty four. Hector Himenez
• 16:34
  Speaker 1: is like the official sort of name of the card, right,
• 16:37
  Speaker 1: so what your god is? The bowman is the maker
• 16:40
  Speaker 1: of the card. Chrome is the type of card of
• 16:42
  Speaker 1: the addition number two sixty four. I'm if I remember correctly,
• 16:47
  Speaker 1: that would be Hector Jimenez. Card was two sixty four
• 16:52
  Speaker 1: in the set of say like three hundred or something
• 16:54
  Speaker 1: like that. Okay, Those tobacco sets so we were talking
• 16:57
  Speaker 1: about that came with cigarettes are very popular. It's called
• 17:02
  Speaker 1: the Tobacco era T sets. So for instance, a list
• 17:06
  Speaker 1: of the T two O six, very famous set from
• 17:09
  Speaker 1: American Tobacco Company. And this was for a couple of
• 17:12
  Speaker 1: years between O nine and nineteen eleven, and this has
• 17:16
  Speaker 1: the very legendary the card that you may have heard of.
• 17:19
  Speaker 1: Even if you know nothing about baseball cards, you've probably
• 17:23
  Speaker 1: heard of the Honus Wagner because it is I guess
• 17:28
  Speaker 1: not the most expensive or valuable baseball cardot all time,
• 17:31
  Speaker 1: but maybe the most well known, and it's certainly up there.
• 17:34
  Speaker 1: I think it was the first baseball card to crack
• 17:37
  Speaker 1: one million dollars sail, all the way back in two thousand.
• 17:41
  Speaker 1: But one of the reasons why it's so well known
• 17:43
  Speaker 1: is because there just weren't that many of them. The
• 17:47
  Speaker 1: legend goes that Honus Wagner said that he didn't well,
• 17:51
  Speaker 1: some people say that he was a posed to tobacco product,
• 17:54
  Speaker 1: so he didn't want his card being sold within packs
• 17:58
  Speaker 1: of cigarettes, And he may or may not have been
• 18:01
  Speaker 1: opposed to tobacco. He just said that he didn't want
• 18:04
  Speaker 1: his picture in cigarettes. But the real truth is probably
• 18:08
  Speaker 1: that he didn't like not being paid for his likeness,
• 18:11
  Speaker 1: which was being used to market and sell cigarettes. Now,
• 18:15
  Speaker 1: regardless either way, there are not that many Honus Wagner
• 18:20
  Speaker 1: cards T two o six Honus Wagner cards. And then
• 18:23
  Speaker 1: one of the other reasons that it's really valuable and
• 18:26
  Speaker 1: probably overvalued is because of a price guide from nineteen
• 18:29
  Speaker 1: thirty seven. Right, yeah, there was a price guide that
• 18:33
  Speaker 1: it seems like the author who wrote this just himself
• 18:37
  Speaker 1: could not find this card readily and kind of I
• 18:43
  Speaker 1: guess misstated it's rarity because of that, because there are
• 18:47
  Speaker 1: other much rarer cards that from those sets even then
• 18:50
  Speaker 1: aren't worth what the Honus Wagner's worth. And then it
• 18:52
  Speaker 1: just kind of became one of those things where the
• 18:55
  Speaker 1: legend grew of the Honus Wagner card, and it kind
• 18:58
  Speaker 1: of became famous invaluable because people said it was famous
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: invaluable right exactly because that T two O six set,
• 19:07
  Speaker 1: which was I think from nineteen o nine. You can
• 19:11
  Speaker 1: get cards from that same set for one hundred bucks
• 19:13
  Speaker 1: or less today, but then it was yes, but that
• 19:16
  Speaker 1: Honus Wagner sold most recently for seven point two five
• 19:21
  Speaker 1: million dollars in the last few years. So it really
• 19:25
  Speaker 1: is just basically it's it's become iconic and legendary just
• 19:29
  Speaker 1: because people thought it was rare, and even when they
• 19:32
  Speaker 1: found out it wasn't that rare, it doesn't matter. It's
• 19:34
  Speaker 1: still a Honus Wagner card. Should I buy you a
• 19:38
  Speaker 1: T two O six card for eighty bucks online? Sure?
• 19:42
  Speaker 1: A stretchy brown Stash card. Stretchy brown sash. Oh man,
• 19:46
  Speaker 1: I'm glad we circled back to that because you were,
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: like I can't. I can't hazard a guess at a
• 19:50
  Speaker 1: name of a player from back then, and I was
• 19:52
  Speaker 1: like thinking about it, but then the time had passed
• 19:55
  Speaker 1: and then bam it came back again. So it's way
• 19:57
  Speaker 1: Brown Stash time. Okay, So that was off the eight
• 20:00
  Speaker 1: minutes ago exactly. Okay, very nice way to hang onto that. See,
• 20:04
  Speaker 1: you don't throw away jokes, not if they're okay or better,
• 20:08
  Speaker 1: because you never know when it might come up. That's
• 20:10
  Speaker 1: exactly true, man. And that's not just the case with
• 20:12
  Speaker 1: jokes too, Chuck. That's the case with just information in general.
• 20:16
  Speaker 1: Something that may seem trite or boring. Even at one
• 20:19
  Speaker 1: moment down the road, you might be like, oh, I
• 20:21
  Speaker 1: know the answer to that, and then yam, someone's fallen
• 20:24
  Speaker 1: in love with you. Well, you know it's funny too,
• 20:27
  Speaker 1: is you know. I've never done improv, but I know
• 20:29
  Speaker 1: a lot of improvers, and they all have a little
• 20:32
  Speaker 1: hip pocket stuff, you know, like they're they're certainly improving,
• 20:36
  Speaker 1: but they all have their little bag of tricks that
• 20:38
  Speaker 1: they keep in, little gags and jokes and names. And
• 20:41
  Speaker 1: when we did our TV show, Caitlyn Bits, a guy
• 20:45
  Speaker 1: who was played our boss Steve on the show and
• 20:48
  Speaker 1: was one of the legit talented actors that surrounded us. Caitlyn,
• 20:52
  Speaker 1: I don't know if you remember this, but in one
• 20:54
  Speaker 1: of the episodes, she she threw out the name Mike
• 20:57
  Speaker 1: Vlasney and that's stuff with me all these years as
• 21:01
  Speaker 1: somebody's who's like something something Mike Lasney said? And I
• 21:04
  Speaker 1: asked her it just killed me for some reason. It
• 21:06
  Speaker 1: was just to had a funny ring to it. And
• 21:07
  Speaker 1: I asked her after word if she had just made
• 21:09
  Speaker 1: that up, and she said, uh, She's like no, She's like,
• 21:11
  Speaker 1: I've been using Mike Lasney for years. Good. It's a
• 21:14
  Speaker 1: good one. It is a good one. It's like my Todd. Yeah,
• 21:17
  Speaker 1: well you true Todd. But now you've got stretchy black
• 21:20
  Speaker 1: what black brown brown stash. It's good stuff. Hang on
• 21:25
  Speaker 1: to it, thank you. Ironically, he was blonde. Oh wow,
• 21:29
  Speaker 1: See this story gets richer and richer. Yes, and so um,
• 21:34
  Speaker 1: let's get back to baseball cart shall we? Yeah? Um?
• 21:40
  Speaker 1: Oh well hell go ahead? No, no, go ahead? Uh.
• 21:43
  Speaker 1: The T two O six was one of the ones
• 21:46
  Speaker 1: we were mentioned with the Honus Wagner Uh card. Included
• 21:50
  Speaker 1: was one of the last tobacco sets and then World
• 21:53
  Speaker 1: War One comes along and kind of puts a halt
• 21:56
  Speaker 1: on production, because it seemed like warriors back then put
• 22:00
  Speaker 1: a halt like World Wars put a stop on lots
• 22:04
  Speaker 1: of production of things that weren't needed when you needed
• 22:06
  Speaker 1: other things. Not to mention the nineteen nineteen flu pandemic too, right, Sure,
• 22:11
  Speaker 1: So I saw Chuck somewhere the time between basically nineteen
• 22:16
  Speaker 1: hundred and World War One as the golden era of
• 22:20
  Speaker 1: baseball card collecting between Waight Ears nineteen hundred and basically
• 22:25
  Speaker 1: nineteen seventeen nineteen sixteen. Oh. Interesting. Yeah, I thought that
• 22:30
  Speaker 1: was interesting too, because again, these are the ones that
• 22:32
  Speaker 1: are like, they follow very little rhyme or reason, like
• 22:35
  Speaker 1: Nibisco was putting out like baseball cards. It's just weird. Yes,
• 22:40
  Speaker 1: they called they're notated with the D and that's your
• 22:44
  Speaker 1: bread baseball cards, yeah, or bread like products whatever. Um.
• 22:50
  Speaker 1: But apparently that's the golden age of baseball card collecting.
• 22:53
  Speaker 1: I disagree. I think when I was collecting, it's the
• 22:55
  Speaker 1: golden age of baseball card collecting. But it could just
• 22:58
  Speaker 1: be my skewed opinion, your first person point of view, right.
• 23:03
  Speaker 1: But the thing is, around this time, people started saying like, oh, kids,
• 23:07
  Speaker 1: maybe we should stop forcing them to start work at five,
• 23:10
  Speaker 1: and maybe we should have a problem with them smoking tobacco.
• 23:15
  Speaker 1: And about this time, people said, well, these kids are
• 23:16
  Speaker 1: starting to really get into this baseball card thing. They
• 23:19
  Speaker 1: like baseball, they like things that remind them of baseball,
• 23:21
  Speaker 1: so hence their fascination with baseball cards. But I don't
• 23:25
  Speaker 1: really think we should be pushing old judge cigarettes on
• 23:28
  Speaker 1: them so that they can get their baseball cards. What
• 23:31
  Speaker 1: if we package these things with candy? And here was
• 23:34
  Speaker 1: a huge, huge step in the evolution of baseball cards. Yeah,
• 23:39
  Speaker 1: they said, why try and sell cigarettes to ten year olds.
• 23:42
  Speaker 1: They shouldn't start smoking till they're twelve, so let's start
• 23:46
  Speaker 1: putting them in caramel packages and things like that, and
• 23:50
  Speaker 1: that kind of birth, some real kind of fun oddity,
• 23:54
  Speaker 1: is at least fun to me. Yeah. I don't know
• 23:55
  Speaker 1: how the baseball card community looks at this. I can't
• 23:58
  Speaker 1: stand it. Oh really, I like things to be standardized
• 24:01
  Speaker 1: and follow like a set of rhyme and reason. So
• 24:05
  Speaker 1: sometimes these things were round, which is kind of fun,
• 24:08
  Speaker 1: I think. And then sometimes, like in the case of
• 24:10
  Speaker 1: the nineteen twenty American caramel or caramel set, they were
• 24:15
  Speaker 1: die cut cards that were just in the shape of
• 24:18
  Speaker 1: the player. It was a little cut out of a player. Ah, well,
• 24:23
  Speaker 1: hurt your sensibilities. I just don't like it. No, I
• 24:26
  Speaker 1: don't like it at all. It's just too random. I
• 24:29
  Speaker 1: think it's neat. I know, and I can understand how
• 24:31
  Speaker 1: some whoult would. It's my own foible for sure. Yeah,
• 24:34
  Speaker 1: I got you. So it was basically like the Wild
• 24:37
  Speaker 1: West for baseball cards all the way until about World
• 24:40
  Speaker 1: War two, and actually passed World War two. But a
• 24:44
  Speaker 1: little after World War two, Bowman, a gum maker, started
• 24:48
  Speaker 1: taking over baseball cards. They started adding baseball cards sets,
• 24:54
  Speaker 1: they started kind of professionalizing the whole thing, and in
• 24:57
  Speaker 1: very short order, another gum maker called Tops said, oh,
• 25:01
  Speaker 1: I like what Bowman's doing. They're really like increasing their sales.
• 25:04
  Speaker 1: Let's see if we can figure out how to build
• 25:06
  Speaker 1: a monopoly out of this, And they actually did. Tops
• 25:10
  Speaker 1: had a monopoly on baseball cards, like literally, you could
• 25:14
  Speaker 1: not get a baseball card that wasn't a Tops baseball
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: card from about the early fifties till about nineteen eighty.
• 25:22
  Speaker 1: They were all that they had because Tops had figured
• 25:25
  Speaker 1: out that they could go to individual players and say, hey,
• 25:28
  Speaker 1: sign this contract so that we're the only one who
• 25:31
  Speaker 1: can reproduce your likeness, and we'll give you X number
• 25:34
  Speaker 1: of dollars every year. And players would be like, sure,
• 25:37
  Speaker 1: why not, I don't have any allegiance to bowmen or
• 25:39
  Speaker 1: flear or anything like that. And Tops just dominated the
• 25:43
  Speaker 1: market somehow survived an FTC investigation. They were a literal monopoly.
• 25:49
  Speaker 1: They would get sued all the time, and they just
• 25:51
  Speaker 1: withstood all of it until finally the players Union was like, hey, guys,
• 25:56
  Speaker 1: these other companies are willing to pay way more stops
• 26:00
  Speaker 1: signing these Tops contracts. And it wasn't until the players
• 26:03
  Speaker 1: themselves stop signing these contracts with Tops that the monopoly
• 26:07
  Speaker 1: ended up getting broken up in that way. Yeah, I
• 26:10
  Speaker 1: think it was just kind of what you did, Like
• 26:14
  Speaker 1: you got you went to Major League Baseball and you
• 26:17
  Speaker 1: signed with Tops. Was just part of your deals, like
• 26:19
  Speaker 1: signing with an agent or whatever. Right now, were there
• 26:21
  Speaker 1: not any other companies making cards for nobody baseball players?
• 26:26
  Speaker 1: Even I don't know if they were for nobody. The
• 26:30
  Speaker 1: way that Ed puts it is that basically you had
• 26:33
  Speaker 1: to not even be a prospect in the minor leagues,
• 26:36
  Speaker 1: like maybe a mascot level player, right. I'm just wondering
• 26:41
  Speaker 1: if there were any other Baseball cards aside from Tops
• 26:44
  Speaker 1: during that thirty year period. Surely there was something, right,
• 26:47
  Speaker 1: not that I understand. There were like football cards, there
• 26:50
  Speaker 1: were hockey cards, but Baseball seems to have been totally
• 26:54
  Speaker 1: locked down by Tops, essentially because think about it. If
• 26:57
  Speaker 1: you're safe fleer arrival the Tops and you want to
• 27:01
  Speaker 1: put out a baseball card set, but you can only
• 27:03
  Speaker 1: sign seven players out of all the players in Major
• 27:06
  Speaker 1: League Baseball, Like, you're not even gonna go to the trouble.
• 27:09
  Speaker 1: Nobody's gonna buy it, right, right, So I would guess No,
• 27:13
  Speaker 1: I think that it was basically just Tops this whole time,
• 27:16
  Speaker 1: as just exclusively with baseball, is all I'm saying. Well,
• 27:19
  Speaker 1: what was flearmaking? Were they making other sports cards? Probably
• 27:22
  Speaker 1: hockey and football, Yeah, and maybe basketball, because those those
• 27:26
  Speaker 1: cards have been I think hockey cards were almost as
• 27:30
  Speaker 1: old as baseball cards. They were put in tobacco packs too. Yeah.
• 27:35
  Speaker 1: You know what's funny is now that I'm remembering my
• 27:38
  Speaker 1: pseudo collection, I had a few NBA cards and a
• 27:42
  Speaker 1: few NHL cards in there too. Everybody's I know. I
• 27:46
  Speaker 1: remember seeing the random toothless hockey player. Uh, you know
• 27:51
  Speaker 1: mulitied toothless hockey player. Yep, that is standard issue stuff
• 27:57
  Speaker 1: right there. It's pretty good. And I also get the
• 27:59
  Speaker 1: same neural pathways when I opened that box. It's like
• 28:03
  Speaker 1: it's the best. That's pretty strong stuff. One other thing
• 28:07
  Speaker 1: I ran across the chuck is that, ironically, there's a
• 28:09
  Speaker 1: company from Italy called Panini, and Panini has a lock
• 28:13
  Speaker 1: on the licenses for NBA and NFL until twenty twenty six.
• 28:18
  Speaker 1: So Tops got beaten at their own game. They can't
• 28:20
  Speaker 1: produce an NFL or NBA official cards until twenty twenty six.
• 28:25
  Speaker 1: Now we look at you, Panini locking down the sandwich
• 28:30
  Speaker 1: making process and the football cards right this. There's a
• 28:35
  Speaker 1: little sidebar it included which I think is interesting, which
• 28:37
  Speaker 1: was that you know you mentioned I don't know if
• 28:40
  Speaker 1: you actually said it, but Flear sued Tops in nineteen
• 28:44
  Speaker 1: seventy five, and a lot of case law has to
• 28:49
  Speaker 1: do with baseball cards, including a very interesting side note
• 28:53
  Speaker 1: that the whole idea of name and likeness and like
• 28:56
  Speaker 1: owning your image and being able to profit from your
• 29:00
  Speaker 1: own image and keeping people from profiting from your image
• 29:03
  Speaker 1: came from a baseball card case in what nineteen fifty three? Correct, Yeah,
• 29:08
  Speaker 1: Halean Laboratories, which is a terrible name for a gummaker,
• 29:12
  Speaker 1: but that's who they were. They bought Bowman and Tops
• 29:15
  Speaker 1: was poaching their players that they had contracts with, and
• 29:17
  Speaker 1: they sued Tops, and Tops argued, look, Bowman doesn't own
• 29:22
  Speaker 1: the person's likeness. Yeah, they have a contract with the player.
• 29:25
  Speaker 1: But what the player was saying is I won't sue
• 29:27
  Speaker 1: you Bowman for making a baseball card with my likeness.
• 29:32
  Speaker 1: Not that I'm giving you any ownership over my likeness.
• 29:35
  Speaker 1: I'm just waiving my right to sue you with this contract.
• 29:38
  Speaker 1: And Top said, you can't see us because you don't
• 29:40
  Speaker 1: own the likeness. You can go sue the player, but
• 29:42
  Speaker 1: you can't see us. And the court said, you know what,
• 29:44
  Speaker 1: You're absolutely right. It resides in the person, and the
• 29:48
  Speaker 1: person not only owns their likeness, but they're able to
• 29:50
  Speaker 1: sell it or lease it to third parties. And it
• 29:53
  Speaker 1: was all because of baseball cards. It took a little
• 29:56
  Speaker 1: while to develop. Remember our legal precedent episode. Oh yeah,
• 30:00
  Speaker 1: I think the decision came from the Second Circuit Court
• 30:02
  Speaker 1: of Appeals. Um, so it wasn't binding in other courts,
• 30:06
  Speaker 1: but it was eventually cited as precedent and spread and
• 30:09
  Speaker 1: spread and spread, and then in the seventies it was
• 30:11
  Speaker 1: like a thing. Yeah, and boy, talk about a monumental case. Yeah,
• 30:15
  Speaker 1: especially these days. I mean, they're the human beings are
• 30:19
  Speaker 1: brands these days with influencers and not just influencers but
• 30:23
  Speaker 1: I hate even saying that word, but just celebrity image
• 30:27
  Speaker 1: or whatever, and that that was a huge, huge case.
• 30:32
  Speaker 1: And I think, you know, one of the most important
• 30:33
  Speaker 1: reasons is it kept like it meant you could profit.
• 30:37
  Speaker 1: But I think the big thing was it kept other
• 30:39
  Speaker 1: people from being able to steal your image. So if
• 30:42
  Speaker 1: you just want to be like a George Clooney class
• 30:46
  Speaker 1: act and not put your face on a he probably
• 30:50
  Speaker 1: does those ads in Japan and stuff. Though, I bet
• 30:52
  Speaker 1: he does presso adds here, Oh does he? Okay, it's
• 30:56
  Speaker 1: so weird. It's so random because it's like the only
• 30:58
  Speaker 1: thing he does. Yeah, that is weird. Maybe he's just
• 31:02
  Speaker 1: into it. I guess I just think classy. I think Clooney,
• 31:05
  Speaker 1: that's it just comes out of my mouth. He's cold. Uh.
• 31:10
  Speaker 1: Should we take another break on that wonderful joke? Yes,
• 31:14
  Speaker 1: all right, we'll talk about the kind of getting into
• 31:17
  Speaker 1: the modern era right after this. Okay, Chuck, So this
• 31:44
  Speaker 1: guy is my guy that we're going to talk about.
• 31:46
  Speaker 1: His name is cy Burger. I say Burger. He codified
• 31:51
  Speaker 1: things and you love him for it. He did. That's
• 31:53
  Speaker 1: absolutely right. He said, Hey, everybody, let's start acting like
• 31:56
  Speaker 1: we actually care about the product that we're putting out
• 31:59
  Speaker 1: and standardizing some of this stuff. Let's get the look
• 32:02
  Speaker 1: up up to date. Let's, oh, I don't know, put
• 32:05
  Speaker 1: the logo of the team on the card, right, Let's
• 32:08
  Speaker 1: start using color in normal, coherent fashion, like we are
• 32:12
  Speaker 1: all sane. Um. So, Cyberger he was the one. He
• 32:15
  Speaker 1: worked for tops appropriately enough, and he did such an
• 32:19
  Speaker 1: amazing job that he's set just basically standards that are
• 32:23
  Speaker 1: still around today. Yeah. The those stats on the back
• 32:28
  Speaker 1: that you love so much, that was Cyberger, the little
• 32:33
  Speaker 1: printed signature Cyberger. Yeah, well he wasn't signing them Cibergers
• 32:39
  Speaker 1: a card. The size, the three and a half by
• 32:42
  Speaker 1: two and a half size became standard in nineteen fifty
• 32:46
  Speaker 1: seven because of Cyburger. Well that was a cost saving
• 32:49
  Speaker 1: measure too, right, Well, yeah, I mean it, it definitely
• 32:53
  Speaker 1: made sense because I think it just that was less
• 32:56
  Speaker 1: less waste right on the printing sheets. Yeah, you could
• 32:59
  Speaker 1: just more cards per sheet, so you could save some
• 33:02
  Speaker 1: money with printing. When you're printing millions of cards, you know,
• 33:05
  Speaker 1: the thing is, Chuck is I think also that's another
• 33:08
  Speaker 1: reason why I love baseball cards starting in this era,
• 33:11
  Speaker 1: because they're all the same size too. It's very much
• 33:14
  Speaker 1: like my love for the right size g I Joes
• 33:18
  Speaker 1: and not the overly large, weirdo g I Joes of
• 33:22
  Speaker 1: the days of your as you hunting me, well, I
• 33:26
  Speaker 1: mean I think there's I'm not like particularly m OCD,
• 33:33
  Speaker 1: but I have a little bit of that stuff. We've
• 33:35
  Speaker 1: talked about it before, and a stacked thing. If there
• 33:38
  Speaker 1: are irregularities in that stacked thing, it drives me crazy.
• 33:42
  Speaker 1: So I kind of get where you're coming from there. Yeah.
• 33:45
  Speaker 1: Imagine like a die cut arm sticking out of your
• 33:49
  Speaker 1: Oh my god, you know how I feel. Oh geez.
• 33:55
  Speaker 1: One of the other things about Cyberger's success, Chuck, is
• 33:58
  Speaker 1: that it was his transition. This is the nineteen fifty
• 34:01
  Speaker 1: two set that his first that debuted his work. I
• 34:04
  Speaker 1: guess the first one. Yeah, he was so successful that
• 34:08
  Speaker 1: TOPS was like, oh my gosh, like this is amazing.
• 34:11
  Speaker 1: Our sales are through the roof. Let's release a second
• 34:14
  Speaker 1: set in nineteen fifty two. We'll catch everybody just in
• 34:17
  Speaker 1: time for the playoffs, so they'll be all super psyched
• 34:19
  Speaker 1: about that, and we'll just sell even more than we
• 34:22
  Speaker 1: normally do. And they missed the mark. I think they
• 34:25
  Speaker 1: came out a little late. They missed playoff fever and
• 34:29
  Speaker 1: instead ran into base or football fever, so people weren't
• 34:33
  Speaker 1: really interested. So they actually took all of these leftover
• 34:36
  Speaker 1: remnant This is like the et the game version of
• 34:39
  Speaker 1: baseball cards. They took all of these just overstocked leftover sets,
• 34:46
  Speaker 1: and they warehoused them for a few years, I think,
• 34:49
  Speaker 1: and finally in nineteen sixty they're like, we're paying for
• 34:52
  Speaker 1: these cards that we're never going to do anything with.
• 34:55
  Speaker 1: Let's just put them on a barge and dump them
• 34:56
  Speaker 1: in the ocean. And they did. They dumped him in
• 35:00
  Speaker 1: the ocean. It's so strange, like little decisions like that,
• 35:04
  Speaker 1: like not to bury them, not to incender him to
• 35:06
  Speaker 1: dump them in the ocean, so yeah, not to go
• 35:09
  Speaker 1: through them and maybe pick out ones that might be valuable. Exactly, Well,
• 35:12
  Speaker 1: that's the thing they didn't know that any of these
• 35:14
  Speaker 1: things were going to be valuable, but it just so
• 35:16
  Speaker 1: happened that the most expensive, the most valuable baseball card
• 35:20
  Speaker 1: of all time, the nineteen fifty two Mickey Mantle, is
• 35:24
  Speaker 1: down there at the bottom of the sea in droves.
• 35:27
  Speaker 1: But because they're at the bottom of the sea, the
• 35:30
  Speaker 1: ones that are top sides still are incredibly rare and
• 35:34
  Speaker 1: incredibly valuable, so much so that the nineteen fifty two
• 35:38
  Speaker 1: Mickey Mantle sold for twelve point six million dollars last year. Yeah,
• 35:44
  Speaker 1: that was a nine point five on the condition scale,
• 35:50
  Speaker 1: and it is not even a rookie card, but it
• 35:53
  Speaker 1: is that first TOPS card that had that sort of
• 35:56
  Speaker 1: modern baseball look in nineteen fifty two. Yeah, so it's considered,
• 36:01
  Speaker 1: you know, or at least valued as the most expensive
• 36:04
  Speaker 1: you know, topsnas Wagner even Yeah, yeah, it topped Honas Wagner,
• 36:08
  Speaker 1: and I think the nineteen thirty three Babe Ruth is
• 36:12
  Speaker 1: third for most valuable card, right, which makes sense. So
• 36:17
  Speaker 1: now we're going into the next era of trading and collecting,
• 36:21
  Speaker 1: which was Hey, you kids, I know you're kind of
• 36:24
  Speaker 1: into this thing, but you know, you put them in
• 36:27
  Speaker 1: your bicycle spokes and you play games with them, and
• 36:29
  Speaker 1: you handle them and muck them up. Adults are going
• 36:33
  Speaker 1: to start collecting these and keep them in pristine condition
• 36:37
  Speaker 1: because there's an actual trade and buy and sell market here.
• 36:41
  Speaker 1: And we'll even have a convention. And the very first
• 36:44
  Speaker 1: West Coast Sports Collector's Convention was in Brea, California in
• 36:49
  Speaker 1: nineteen sixty nine at a guy's house named Jim Knowle
• 36:53
  Speaker 1: because he was there wasn't enough people basically, I think
• 36:56
  Speaker 1: a couple of dozen people, and he was a prominent
• 36:59
  Speaker 1: collector who I guess had a good enough house. Uh.
• 37:02
  Speaker 1: They point to nineteen eighty eleven years later is the
• 37:05
  Speaker 1: first true convention, and then I guess they held it
• 37:08
  Speaker 1: at a hotel, the National Sports Collector's Convention, and you
• 37:14
  Speaker 1: know they were there between that time, there were little
• 37:16
  Speaker 1: shows here and there. But they point to nineteen eighties
• 37:18
  Speaker 1: the first like real deal convention. Yeah, totally. And I
• 37:21
  Speaker 1: saw an article on counterfeit cards, which we'll talk about
• 37:25
  Speaker 1: in a little while, but just right off the bat,
• 37:28
  Speaker 1: I mean, within a year or two of that first convention,
• 37:31
  Speaker 1: counterfeit I think Pete Rose rookie cards started showing up. Yeah,
• 37:35
  Speaker 1: just almost immediately. But it's like you said, like it
• 37:38
  Speaker 1: went from just something that kids got, as you know,
• 37:43
  Speaker 1: kind of like um, imagine collecting ring pops. Okay, okay,
• 37:50
  Speaker 1: it's virtually the same thing, where like like kids would
• 37:53
  Speaker 1: just go buy it and you know, mess around with
• 37:55
  Speaker 1: it for a little while, and then that was it. It
• 37:56
  Speaker 1: It was discarded. Whatever. Imagine if a adults suddenly were like,
• 38:01
  Speaker 1: we want to buy those, Sorry, you don't have adult money.
• 38:04
  Speaker 1: Maybe you shouldn't have stopped working starting at five years
• 38:07
  Speaker 1: back and you would have adult money, but you don't.
• 38:10
  Speaker 1: So now these things are really going to go up
• 38:12
  Speaker 1: in price. And it didn't happen immediately chucked, but slowly
• 38:16
  Speaker 1: but surely, starting around nineteen eighty and then onward, it
• 38:20
  Speaker 1: went from a hobby or something fun for kids in
• 38:24
  Speaker 1: grown up to like to something incredibly amped up and
• 38:28
  Speaker 1: almost on cocaine. Yeah, that's an interesting way to put it,
• 38:36
  Speaker 1: but I think I agree the market is generally driven
• 38:40
  Speaker 1: by exactly what you think, which is rarity, which we'll
• 38:44
  Speaker 1: talk about, and condition, because you know, like I said,
• 38:48
  Speaker 1: kids actually played with the cards and things like that
• 38:50
  Speaker 1: and traded them and touched them, so a lot of
• 38:53
  Speaker 1: these cards were not as valuable because they were mucked up.
• 38:59
  Speaker 1: Sometimes these little cards were designed to be folded as
• 39:02
  Speaker 1: little stand up things, and like, this is one of
• 39:05
  Speaker 1: the things that can drive a rarity. So if you
• 39:07
  Speaker 1: have a card that was supposed to be folded in
• 39:10
  Speaker 1: half as a little stand up tent or something like
• 39:12
  Speaker 1: a little pop up, but you never did that, it's
• 39:15
  Speaker 1: like the grido that you never opened and played with
• 39:19
  Speaker 1: as a kid or whatever. That means. It's a low supply.
• 39:22
  Speaker 1: It's just very simple supply and demand kind of thing.
• 39:25
  Speaker 1: And Ed very stutey points out it's not exclusively but
• 39:29
  Speaker 1: a lot of baby baby boomers and their kids are
• 39:31
  Speaker 1: the ones that are really into this community, and they
• 39:35
  Speaker 1: created a very big demand in those two decades in
• 39:38
  Speaker 1: the seventies and eighties, and manufacturers were like, hey, we
• 39:43
  Speaker 1: can make more money here, so then they ruined it
• 39:47
  Speaker 1: by over producing. In the nineties, Upper Deck came along
• 39:51
  Speaker 1: and did a really good job of debuting like next
• 39:55
  Speaker 1: level cards that just looked awesome. The photos were better,
• 39:59
  Speaker 1: they were on higher qualit card stock as opposed to
• 40:02
  Speaker 1: just like junkie cardboard. Sometimes they were hand autographs. Those
• 40:06
  Speaker 1: are the really really expensive ones now, and they would
• 40:10
  Speaker 1: include little bits of like a shard of a baseball,
• 40:13
  Speaker 1: a splinter of a baseball bat that was used by
• 40:15
  Speaker 1: a player, or a little tiny little thing of a
• 40:18
  Speaker 1: baseball jersey. So these little extras started popping up, and
• 40:22
  Speaker 1: it was really cool, but they not upper deck, but
• 40:24
  Speaker 1: just the market was flooded overall, and there were just
• 40:27
  Speaker 1: too many baseball cards. Yeah, there's one with like a
• 40:30
  Speaker 1: lock of Jose Canseco's hair. Just oh, really, is that
• 40:35
  Speaker 1: one you do? That would not surprise you. It wouldn't
• 40:38
  Speaker 1: me either, man, after reading this, I had no idea
• 40:40
  Speaker 1: that this was the state that baseball cards were in.
• 40:42
  Speaker 1: But they just embed the weirdest stuff into cards now
• 40:46
  Speaker 1: and it makes them just incredibly valuable. So what's happened
• 40:50
  Speaker 1: is the companies that make cards have they used to
• 40:54
  Speaker 1: just make cards? They said, oh, there's X number of
• 40:58
  Speaker 1: Major League Baseball players, we're gonna make x number of cards.
• 41:01
  Speaker 1: And then for some of the ones that are stars,
• 41:03
  Speaker 1: well we'll put them in a different outfit. We'll say, here,
• 41:06
  Speaker 1: hold this feather duster like a bat for this one.
• 41:08
  Speaker 1: We'll use like slightly different colors and things like that
• 41:11
  Speaker 1: for a few of them. So and those will be
• 41:14
  Speaker 1: produced in you know, a little lower quantities, but they
• 41:18
  Speaker 1: it's just been so juiced now that they're like, yeah,
• 41:20
  Speaker 1: give me a little bit of Brett Farve's game Jersey
• 41:24
  Speaker 1: and we're gonna embed it in a card and there's um,
• 41:27
  Speaker 1: you know, we're gonna make two of them. And what's
• 41:30
  Speaker 1: interesting is they put them in packs. Still, it's not
• 41:33
  Speaker 1: like you can only you have to walk on foot
• 41:36
  Speaker 1: to the company's factory and buy this thing with gold bullion.
• 41:40
  Speaker 1: They put them in packs, but then they automatically become
• 41:44
  Speaker 1: incredibly valuable on the secondary market, and so people buy
• 41:48
  Speaker 1: packs in the hopes of like they're about to like
• 41:50
  Speaker 1: strike it rich because there's a million dollar cards stuck
• 41:53
  Speaker 1: in there. Yeah, it's I mean, it's hard not to
• 41:56
  Speaker 1: be a little cynical as a as a non enthusiast
• 41:59
  Speaker 1: and be like they they kind of ruined it in
• 42:00
  Speaker 1: a way in my opinion, because it's you know, the
• 42:03
  Speaker 1: old days, it was like you you would open a
• 42:05
  Speaker 1: card or open a pack or whatever, and it was that, um,
• 42:10
  Speaker 1: what you wanted to find was a player that ended
• 42:12
  Speaker 1: up being really good and you're like, wow, I've got
• 42:14
  Speaker 1: this thing now of this Ken Griffey Junior rookie card,
• 42:17
  Speaker 1: while they kind of knew he was going to be
• 42:18
  Speaker 1: because of his dad and his legacy or whatever. But
• 42:21
  Speaker 1: you know what I mean, like Mark the player that
• 42:23
  Speaker 1: kind of yeah, sure, why not Mark Grace? Is that
• 42:25
  Speaker 1: the only baseball player you can think of? No, No,
• 42:27
  Speaker 1: Mark Grace's I think eighty eight rookie card was just yeah,
• 42:32
  Speaker 1: and I interest it was very sought after at the time. Okay,
• 42:36
  Speaker 1: I thought you just like pulled that out of your
• 42:38
  Speaker 1: back end. I thought that was pretty good. Oh thanks, um.
• 42:41
  Speaker 1: But anyway, now it's become like almost like gambling, like
• 42:45
  Speaker 1: buying a like looking for a lottery ticket or something
• 42:47
  Speaker 1: that's a winner. And because of that, there have been
• 42:51
  Speaker 1: rico anti trafficking laws and like lawsuits brought up saying
• 42:57
  Speaker 1: the same thing, which is like you're kind of running
• 42:59
  Speaker 1: a gambling business these days. And all those lawsuits have failed.
• 43:02
  Speaker 1: But Ed pointed out there was one against Panini just
• 43:06
  Speaker 1: like a few months ago this year. So people are
• 43:09
  Speaker 1: still trying to to paint them as you know, gamblers
• 43:14
  Speaker 1: or not gamblers, but whatever. It's called casinos, no lottery
• 43:20
  Speaker 1: ticket printers, card sharks. No, that's not it either. You
• 43:25
  Speaker 1: know what I mean, everyone knows what I mean. I
• 43:26
  Speaker 1: think the card sharks so one of the things that's
• 43:31
  Speaker 1: lost though, chuck it. I don't mean to get cynical about,
• 43:34
  Speaker 1: you know, the present or the future in favor of
• 43:36
  Speaker 1: the past either, but it's hard not to because as
• 43:40
  Speaker 1: a kid, you could go to the grocery store on
• 43:43
  Speaker 1: your bike and buy some packs of baseball cards and
• 43:46
  Speaker 1: go have fun opening them. Good luck finding baseball cards
• 43:50
  Speaker 1: in the store these days. No, really, you, yes, you
• 43:53
  Speaker 1: go to a really well outfitted hobby shop, or you're
• 43:56
  Speaker 1: just buying it online basically immediately from the secondary market.
• 44:00
  Speaker 1: And yes, you can still have the thrill of like
• 44:02
  Speaker 1: buying an unopened pack or whatever, but you have to
• 44:05
  Speaker 1: buy it online and wait for it to arrive in
• 44:07
  Speaker 1: the mail. And it's just it's just a different thing
• 44:10
  Speaker 1: to me. I guess it's not necessarily worse, it's just
• 44:15
  Speaker 1: the reality now, but I just feel like kids in particular,
• 44:19
  Speaker 1: and then also like people who just don't have nearly
• 44:22
  Speaker 1: as much income are having trouble keeping up. You can't
• 44:25
  Speaker 1: buy baseball cards unless you're fairly well off these days,
• 44:28
  Speaker 1: because the possibility of buying a really valuable one is
• 44:34
  Speaker 1: very high, or getting a really valuable one, and then
• 44:37
  Speaker 1: you can just buy valuable ones right out of the
• 44:39
  Speaker 1: gate too, off of the internet, So it just seems
• 44:42
  Speaker 1: different to me. Well, it's it's less magical, for sure,
• 44:47
  Speaker 1: and it is hard not to say that it's worse. Yeah,
• 44:51
  Speaker 1: go ahead and say it. Sorry, everybody. We try not
• 44:53
  Speaker 1: to be terribly opinionated, but this one, this one really
• 44:56
  Speaker 1: was pretty opinionated if you think about it. Yeah, you know,
• 45:00
  Speaker 1: we talked about rookie cards. They're usually the most valuable
• 45:03
  Speaker 1: and sought after, and one of the reasons is because,
• 45:07
  Speaker 1: like I was mentioning earlier, you don't know necessarily you
• 45:11
  Speaker 1: might get a King Griffey Jr. That you have a
• 45:13
  Speaker 1: pretty good idea that he's going to be a great
• 45:14
  Speaker 1: player because of his family, but usually it's like, well,
• 45:18
  Speaker 1: you know, baseball is a hard sport and a lot
• 45:21
  Speaker 1: of really good prospects don't pan out, so you don't
• 45:23
  Speaker 1: know for sure if a player is gonna pan out
• 45:25
  Speaker 1: and be a hot commodity as a baseball card. So
• 45:28
  Speaker 1: that's why rookie cards are worth more. And then also
• 45:31
  Speaker 1: Ed points out too, there's just it's sort of the tradition,
• 45:34
  Speaker 1: like the rookie card is more valuable because we say
• 45:37
  Speaker 1: it's more valuable. It's not necessarily because it's the rarest
• 45:40
  Speaker 1: thing out there, right, it's just very collectible. Yeah, and
• 45:43
  Speaker 1: then Chuck, we talked a little bit or I mentioned
• 45:45
  Speaker 1: counterfeit cards. Yeah, being a thing. I mean, they were
• 45:49
  Speaker 1: a thing back in the day when you know, the
• 45:53
  Speaker 1: first convention started. Now that cards have gotten like ultra valuable,
• 45:59
  Speaker 1: the counterfeit are becoming even more difficult to detect, in
• 46:04
  Speaker 1: part because it's just worth the effort now because of
• 46:08
  Speaker 1: the payoff. And then secondly because the technology to make
• 46:11
  Speaker 1: really good fake cards is becoming more widespread and cheaper,
• 46:16
  Speaker 1: so there's more people putting more time into counterfeit cards.
• 46:19
  Speaker 1: So as a result, there's um in a cottage industry
• 46:24
  Speaker 1: of basically valuators and what's the word where you verify indicators. Yes,
• 46:32
  Speaker 1: authenticators has grown up as well, and there's one company
• 46:37
  Speaker 1: called Professional Sports Authenticator. They're not the only ones. I
• 46:40
  Speaker 1: think Beckett who used to make my I think still
• 46:43
  Speaker 1: do make my beloved Beckett price guides they also authenticate too,
• 46:48
  Speaker 1: But these there's a need has developed for professionals who
• 46:53
  Speaker 1: employ experts to look at these things say yes, this
• 46:56
  Speaker 1: thing is for real and all the and by the way,
• 46:58
  Speaker 1: it's also a nine in mint condition. Basically, I'm surprised
• 47:04
  Speaker 1: they haven't started putting like a you know, a chip
• 47:09
  Speaker 1: or a little stripe that the money has the little
• 47:11
  Speaker 1: when you hold it up to the light, you know,
• 47:14
  Speaker 1: stuff like that to legitimize it. Because it's such a
• 47:18
  Speaker 1: big money industry. I guess maybe the Professional Sports Authenticator
• 47:22
  Speaker 1: company that's a great interest in that not happening because
• 47:27
  Speaker 1: it would well, I wouldn't drive him out of business
• 47:29
  Speaker 1: because of all the previous cards, I guess, but I'm
• 47:30
  Speaker 1: surprised there isn't something like that embedded in the card
• 47:33
  Speaker 1: these days. I think that they're the really high value
• 47:36
  Speaker 1: ones do have some sort of security measures. I know
• 47:40
  Speaker 1: they have things like holograms and foil like printing and
• 47:44
  Speaker 1: stuff like that to duplicate. It is hard to duplicate,
• 47:46
  Speaker 1: but it is possible too, especially if you're not a
• 47:49
  Speaker 1: professional authenticator. There are it's probably harder to detect. But
• 47:55
  Speaker 1: I think if you are a professional, it's probably not
• 47:58
  Speaker 1: that hard. Like I said, for example, um on, I
• 48:02
  Speaker 1: think a PSA slab so if you if you have
• 48:05
  Speaker 1: a card that the PSA is authenticating, they encase it
• 48:09
  Speaker 1: in plastic and basically say like this is forever more verified.
• 48:13
  Speaker 1: This card is verified. They call them slabs that you
• 48:16
  Speaker 1: can buy um on PSA slabs. It has like their
• 48:20
  Speaker 1: patent number for the case that they use, and there's
• 48:24
  Speaker 1: there's a counterfeiter out there who uses the same patent number,
• 48:29
  Speaker 1: same thought and everything embossed on that plastic case, but
• 48:34
  Speaker 1: they forgot the period after pat And that's the way
• 48:38
  Speaker 1: that you tell that it's a counterfeit. Everything else is
• 48:41
  Speaker 1: like that, amazingly well done. And instead of spending so
• 48:45
  Speaker 1: much time trying to rip people off, yeah, it seems
• 48:48
  Speaker 1: like you have enough ingenuity to make money, you know,
• 48:51
  Speaker 1: doing something else. Yeah, you're good enough to be a counterfeit.
• 48:54
  Speaker 1: Or maybe it's the thrill of yeah crime or something.
• 48:57
  Speaker 1: I don't know. I think for some people, crime is
• 48:59
  Speaker 1: very romantic, especially baseball counterfeiting very romantic. The last thing
• 49:05
  Speaker 1: I have is just a kind of cool little footnote
• 49:07
  Speaker 1: that Ed points out, which is in a lot of
• 49:10
  Speaker 1: trading markets, the or collectible trading markets, the rarity and
• 49:14
  Speaker 1: value comes sometimes for mistakes and errors, like the stamp
• 49:20
  Speaker 1: that is misprinted, or the java that looks like it
• 49:24
  Speaker 1: had an erection that they quickly like stopped on the
• 49:27
  Speaker 1: assembly line. Not always the case with baseball, and there
• 49:32
  Speaker 1: are exceptions, but generally baseball card errors are not so valuable.
• 49:37
  Speaker 1: There is at least one exception that I came across,
• 49:40
  Speaker 1: um Billy Ripken, Cal Ripken's brother, his nineteen eighty nine
• 49:44
  Speaker 1: Flear card. He's holding a bat and on the bottom
• 49:48
  Speaker 1: of the bat written it looked like a sharpie it
• 49:51
  Speaker 1: said F face, but it was all spelled out. It
• 49:54
  Speaker 1: was not And he basically just trolled the Fleer company
• 50:00
  Speaker 1: and they printed it. No one noticed it for a while,
• 50:02
  Speaker 1: and they finally I think, I'm not sure what they
• 50:04
  Speaker 1: did with it, but that's a very highly sought after
• 50:06
  Speaker 1: card too. The face. Yeah, they call it the Billy
• 50:10
  Speaker 1: Ripken F eighty nine Fleer or something like that. Oh wow,
• 50:14
  Speaker 1: I love that. The triple F. Yeah, yeah it is.
• 50:17
  Speaker 1: I didn't notice that third F. You got anything else?
• 50:21
  Speaker 1: I got nothing else. This was fun. I hope we
• 50:23
  Speaker 1: got it mostly right. Yeah, and don't forget. I mean, like,
• 50:25
  Speaker 1: there's podcasts out there dedicated to baseball card collecting. We're
• 50:29
  Speaker 1: just doing a general view of it. So if you
• 50:31
  Speaker 1: like it, go seek out some of those baseball card
• 50:34
  Speaker 1: podcasts and enjoy those as well. And since I just
• 50:38
  Speaker 1: said that, of course it's time for a listener mayl.
• 50:41
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna call this a follow up on them the
• 50:47
  Speaker 1: Catherine the first lineage. Remember I couldn't quite remember all
• 50:50
  Speaker 1: that stuff from the Amber Room. Yeah, from the Amber Room.
• 50:53
  Speaker 1: And I'm a big huge fan of the TV show
• 50:55
  Speaker 1: The Great and it comes back first season three, I
• 50:59
  Speaker 1: believe in May Okay, So it's also a good way
• 51:02
  Speaker 1: to plug that show because this will come out kind
• 51:03
  Speaker 1: of closest to them. This from Rebecca. Hey, guys, been
• 51:07
  Speaker 1: listening for quite a few years now. Very informative and
• 51:10
  Speaker 1: I'm not generally one to write in with corrections, but
• 51:12
  Speaker 1: the Russian succession in the Amber Room areas such a
• 51:15
  Speaker 1: good story could be an entire episode. Peter the Great
• 51:19
  Speaker 1: imprisoned his son an heir, after a failed revolt, and
• 51:22
  Speaker 1: he died after torture. After Peter died, the crown bounced
• 51:26
  Speaker 1: around various family members, including the wife that survived him,
• 51:29
  Speaker 1: the Peasant, to born Catherine, the First, for whom the
• 51:33
  Speaker 1: Katherine Palace is named for. Finally, Elizabeth secured the throne,
• 51:37
  Speaker 1: ruled for many years. She apparently lived extravagantly with something
• 51:41
  Speaker 1: like two hundred shoes or I guess one hundred pairs,
• 51:46
  Speaker 1: never wearing the same dress twice. But she never married,
• 51:50
  Speaker 1: so to ensure the succession, she named her nephew her heir,
• 51:54
  Speaker 1: and also arranged his marriage to a German prince's named Sophia,
• 51:59
  Speaker 1: who converted to Russian Orthodox and took the name Katherine. Wow. So,
• 52:04
  Speaker 1: after Elizabeth died, her nephew was so unpopular that only
• 52:07
  Speaker 1: a few months later he was thrown overthrown by his wife,
• 52:10
  Speaker 1: who ruled is Katherine the Second aka the Great? And
• 52:13
  Speaker 1: that is wherein the TV show takes place. Had a
• 52:17
  Speaker 1: chance to visit the Catherine Palace a few years ago.
• 52:19
  Speaker 1: See the recreation of the amber room. It's smaller than
• 52:22
  Speaker 1: I imagine, but still beautiful. Picture frames and tables are
• 52:26
  Speaker 1: also made with amber mosaic. Thanks for the podcast. P S.
• 52:31
  Speaker 1: If you're not ps, you're not supposed to take pictures
• 52:34
  Speaker 1: in the room, but I attempted to sneak a pick
• 52:37
  Speaker 1: before I was called in sculpted. Oh wow, lucky, just
• 52:40
  Speaker 1: scolded and not thrown into the good Rebecca. I'm pretty
• 52:43
  Speaker 1: good about rule following in those cases because I like
• 52:46
  Speaker 1: to I'm a rule follower generally, but I snuck one
• 52:50
  Speaker 1: photo in of one of the Elvis's jumpsuits in Graceland.
• 52:53
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah, you know. I was like, I did
• 52:56
  Speaker 1: a quickie and that was it. I wasn't trying to
• 52:58
  Speaker 1: get too greedy, but I had. And you took a
• 53:01
  Speaker 1: photo too, you may said on his bed. I think
• 53:05
  Speaker 1: I told you on the seven forty seven and set
• 53:07
  Speaker 1: the alarment. Oh I don't think I remember that story.
• 53:11
  Speaker 1: Did you get off that plane pretty quick? That's so
• 53:15
  Speaker 1: just one thing that we're talking about Russia. I want
• 53:17
  Speaker 1: to make a correction from way back in the past.
• 53:21
  Speaker 1: I think in our Louisiana purchase episode, I mentioned that
• 53:27
  Speaker 1: NATO is fighting a proxy war with Russia through Ukraine. Right,
• 53:32
  Speaker 1: I grossly misused the term proxy war. I did not
• 53:36
  Speaker 1: know that proxy war in every case means that the
• 53:40
  Speaker 1: person fighting the proxy war started it. I do not
• 53:44
  Speaker 1: think that NATO started this war at all. I think
• 53:46
  Speaker 1: Russia was the aggressor, and I am definitely not pro
• 53:49
  Speaker 1: Russia in any way, shape or form. As a matter
• 53:52
  Speaker 1: of fact, I have a tremendous amount of admiration for
• 53:54
  Speaker 1: the Ukraine, and I hope that dumb American politics don't
• 53:58
  Speaker 1: get in our way of continuing to support Ukraine. F YI,
• 54:02
  Speaker 1: yeah you were. You were very misunderstood, and I felt
• 54:04
  Speaker 1: terrible for you because we got quite a few letters
• 54:06
  Speaker 1: and that is is not what you meant. But also
• 54:08
  Speaker 1: I learned my lesson too. I should probably double check
• 54:11
  Speaker 1: um big words before I used them. So yeah, apologies
• 54:16
  Speaker 1: to all um Ukrainian Canadian listeners. Apparently there's a bunch
• 54:20
  Speaker 1: of you um for any offense I caused. Yeah, uh,
• 54:24
  Speaker 1: good stuff, Yeah, good stuff. Indeed, if you want to
• 54:26
  Speaker 1: get in touch with us, like any of our Ukrainian
• 54:28
  Speaker 1: Canadian listeners or Rebecca, you can send us an email
• 54:33
  Speaker 1: to Stuff podcast at iHeartRadio dot com. Stuff you Should
• 54:40
  Speaker 1: Know is a production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts my
• 54:43
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• 54:47
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