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Epictetus On Pain: What The Mind Adds · The Stoic Handbook with Jon Brooks

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm guessing at a certain point in your past you have known what it's been like to be ill, to be injured, to be sick.
• 0:12
  SPEAKER_00: How did it feel?
• 0:17
  SPEAKER_00: I'm fortunate enough to not be particularly ill very often, but a few months ago I did get COVID and I lost my sense of smell, had a persistent cough, had chills, and was generally feeling under the weather.
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_00: Many people when they get ill with the common cold or flu or nausea tend to link the psychological suffering in with the physical.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_00: This is quite a normal reaction.
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_00: A lot of people will say they just don't feel good, they don't feel motivated, they don't feel like themselves, they just want to get through this illness so that they can be happy on the other side of it.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_00: But the question that I'd like you to explore within yourself now is the question does a physical illness automatically have to mean psychological suffering?
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_00: The Stoics, in their characteristic view, liked to dissect these commonly held beliefs, and the belief in question is that when you're physically sick, you have to be psychologically in distress too.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_00: But Epictetus would have said that whenever you are ill, remember that this is actually a problem for the body, not the mind.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_00: He believed that illness only becomes a problem for the mind if the mind decides to make it a problem.
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_00: If you take the example of being crippled or injured, this is definitely a physical hindrance in that it can limit your mobility, but it isn't automatically a problem for the mind.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_00: In fact he would say that whenever you experience a physical illness, you should practice saying the mantra this is a problem for the body, not the mind.
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_00: This is a problem for the body, not the mind.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_00: By questioning the way that you add your own layer to events, even events like injury and sickness, eventually you'll be able to see what is within your control and what is not within your control.
• 2:27
  SPEAKER_00: And when something happens to your body that is outside of your control, you start to discover that the sickness is not actually any of your concern.
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_00: Now this isn't to say that the body and mind are not connected.
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_00: In fact, Socrates believed that the body and mind are connected, and he encouraged people to try and stay active and to be physically healthy.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_00: In fact, the favorite exercise of Socrates was to dance alone at daybreak.
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_00: So, yes, if you had this impression that Socrates was extremely rational and made no time for peak ecstatic experiences, then I guess we need to reconsider that.
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_00: The modern understanding of dance is that it is a fantastic form of exercise, it has a meditative component, and is responsible for human peak experiences, and this is something Socrates was doing over 2,000 years ago.
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_00: So why did he value exercise and why did he think that it was important to stay healthy?
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_00: Well, he realized that if the body gets extremely sick, then the mind can get extremely sick.
• 3:36
  SPEAKER_00: There are different types of depression that exists.
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_00: Not all depression is the same.
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_00: In fact, depression is very complex and we still don't really understand it that well.
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_00: We know that some people suffer with postnatal depression, which is a specific type of depression that comes after giving birth.
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_00: We know that some types of depression can be cured with thyroid hormone.
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_00: Some types of depression respond well to medication, some don't.
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_00: Some types of depression respond well to psychotherapy, and some don't.
• 4:11
  SPEAKER_00: Some types of depression are atypical, some come with delusions and psychosis.
• 4:17
  SPEAKER_00: It's a complicated topic.
• 4:19
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm talking here, of course, about clinical level depression.
• 4:23
  SPEAKER_00: But the point is if you let your body degrade and you don't take care of it, that will have some effect on your mind, because your mind is identical on some level to your body.
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_00: So how can we reconcile this view with this idea that when you get injured or feel sick, you can say to yourself, this is a problem for the body, not the mind.
• 4:49
  SPEAKER_00: More than anything, this is a really useful mantra to simply remember that we often tell ourselves stories, stories in which we turn ourselves into a victim about things that happen to us.
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_00: And one of those things is sickness and illness.
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_00: When we are babies and we get sick or we fall over, it is quite frightening and we don't understand it.
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_00: And we cry for our caregivers and they support us, hopefully, and they feel a lot of empathy towards us and they cuddle us in and they make us feel special and loved.
• 5:23
  SPEAKER_00: It's a very nice feeling.
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_00: It gives us a sense of security.
• 5:27
  SPEAKER_00: As we get older, maybe we don't act out so dramatically, but we still share our grievances with other people in hopes that we can be comforted by them.
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_00: There's nothing wrong with this, though it may come at a cost, and the cost could be the inclination you develop over the years to turn physical illness, injury, and sickness into an opportunity for seeing yourself like a victim of circumstances?
• 5:59
  SPEAKER_00: If you fall over and bang your knee, do you tell yourself that you're having no luck, that today is not your day?
• 6:07
  SPEAKER_00: Do you want to moan and complain?
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_00: And do you want others to know about it?
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_00: Or in the moment that you bang your knee, can you take a step back and accept that physics and fortune has conspired to make this indifferent, neutral event that was outside of your control happen, and it has resulted in something you call an injury, and you don't know the true significance of that injury, whether it's good or bad for your life yet, can you say to yourself this is a problem for the body, not the mind?
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_00: I would encourage you to suffer but suffer once.
• 6:49
  SPEAKER_00: If you feel sickness, then feel sickness, but don't feel miserable about being sick.
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_00: To do that would be to suffer two times, to suffer more than you need to.
• 7:01
  SPEAKER_00: But I don't want you to take my word for this.
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_00: Like all stoic practices, the gems are found in the practicing of it.
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_00: So for the next week or two, if you experience pain, if you bump into something or you feel unwell, practice saying the mantra, this is a problem for the body, not the mind.
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_00: And see how you feel.
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_00: In the moment you'll have your answer, and it may not be what you expected.
• 7:31
  SPEAKER_00: And I wonder how much relief and freedom you might feel in the midst of pain.