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How Will The Vault Tours Play Out and Prizing Revealed · Archons Corner

0:19
All right, what's going on everybody? I am still one the only the
0:23
w oh okay I joined here. We're like nine misfits short of a happy
0:28
meal. Well we have the well the smoke show draft co. Hey,
0:33
how's it going? And how many misfits? Are you a happy meal?
0:35
By the way, there's like, I don't think of your kids, like
0:38
four of those misfit there's a four misfit. Yes, I we're mighty,
0:46
the mighty. I don't think they call it a mighty kids me. I
0:49
just if there's an option now, yeah, I mean it's definitely I want
0:53
to be mighty. I won Remember when McDonald's had chicken tenders No, now
1:04
what were they called ro No? They were delicious. No, they're not
1:10
nuggets, said he is in Iowa. That's kind of grossy Oh yeah,
1:15
I wouldn't go to Iowa doing there chicken selects. My wife just chimed in
1:22
there. They were called chicken selects. Oh yeah. They used to come
1:26
up with max sauce. Wait that was a yeah, that was a snack
1:32
wrap. They also need to bring those back as well. We also have
1:34
the PhD of key Forge doctor sheep yep, getting stupider, getting dumber by
1:41
the day. But we got some new we actually have like news news ish
1:46
this. But first we are two weeks out boys, heck yeah, from
1:53
twenty twenty four's first vault. I'm excited. Who's excited? Sheep? I
2:00
am. I'm not going. Sheep's not going. The sheep is not excited.
2:06
Unfortunately, Sheep will be on. You're going on a cruise. How
2:08
angry can you be? I'm moderately angry. You can play Shredders and just
2:14
throw the cards into the ocean. I played wetter, just playing because of
2:17
the pool. Yeah, yeah, yeah, and the card sinks, the
2:21
creature dies. Well, we got we got a little bit of information.
2:24
Finally, only two weeks out from you know what's going to be happening.
2:29
So we are going to have sealed on Friday, our kind of alliance running
2:35
in tandem. I guess side by side on Saturday. And then it looks
2:40
like all the finals, if I read this correctly, will be happening on
2:44
Sunday. Wrong. Wrong, Okay, then we're gonna make my mistake.
2:50
So the Arkon Alliance final is on Sunday. The sealed final will be after
2:53
the main tournament on Saturday. Oh perfect, yes, so you and after
3:00
the main tournament you can then go play more sealed and be more tired.
3:06
So what you're telling me if I'm in top eight, I'll definitely it's like
3:10
week AM week by the double elimination fifteen hour days. Yea, handle this,
3:21
listen. We all make life choices. I mean I was not one
3:23
of mine. I never had to that. Well. Yeah, so Second
3:28
Ember will be going on as well, and they will have prizes for the
3:34
Second Umber. So attendees who do not participate in the main tournament are also
3:38
invited to participate in Second Ever, but must bring a deck that follows the
3:40
Second Ember format normally sealed ark Alliance modifications may be announced by the event staff
3:47
and vary at each tournament. Sure, oh wow, that came out of
3:54
nowhere. Playing in a second Ember gives everyone a chance to keep having you
4:00
for five Josh that Josh wrote this. He loves like just adding fun behind
4:08
key forge and then like it's a thing like you manifested, right he forges
4:13
fun. Yeah, I agree, that's how that works. It's in a
4:17
more casual rond robin style format and you can earn additional prizing and entering Second
4:23
Ember gives one prize ticket, and everyone in Second Mber gives you an additional
4:28
prize ticket. At the conclusion of Second Mber, there will be a prize
4:30
raffle for participants. Prizes will include special decks, tokens, sleeves, and
4:35
more so all the prizes you already own and more of the prizes you already
4:41
own. Although do you see I do you see what I see? I
4:47
actually don't own some of this stuff. What don't like? Okay? What
4:51
don't you armor tokens? I don't know armor tokens. But are you gonna?
4:56
Would you use armor tokens if they were available to you? But I
5:00
don't own them. I don't own yellow stun tokens. I have lots of
5:06
yellow stunning. I'm gonna have extra jet. I'm cheap, but I just
5:15
have all the key for it, stuff, all of it. That's called
5:18
not being a quitter. During the hiatus, I didn't quit. I also
5:24
went on hiatus. I'm like a bear into hypernation. I didn't I looted,
5:30
and I believe I'm okay. I mean yeah, looks like there will
5:40
also be menagerie going on. If that's your jam, Yeah, Official supported
5:46
Menagerie Slash unchained ARCon style, so I'm already out on that, Like I
5:54
don't want people to only bring the most broken junk because I don't have broken
5:58
junk for that. Yeah, I mean I don't know. Like at least
6:01
it gives you something to do with these decks, like I'll probably participate and
6:06
then uh gigs, still stealing more people's ship. Weekend Key Warrior Wait what
6:14
oh oh, just unabashedly taking people's podcast names ideas whatever. Not a big
6:21
deal, but the Weekend Key Warriors less of a side of it and more
6:26
of a side happening. It is funny. It is the weekend Key Warriors,
6:30
not just key Warrior, right, Weekend key Warrior is what they call
6:33
them. Humor said, it's the whole thing, not just key Warrior,
6:40
because key Warrior, like you know, there's only so many good key puns
6:45
out there anyways. Mm hmm. So give me give me a what do
6:50
you think they're gonna name after us? Like I've already they've already named it.
6:57
It's called Alliance. Were they gonna call at arcs Quarter? We have
7:01
them decks up. We have the most hated format in the history of keyboard.
7:06
That's what we have I think. I think Josh brings a porta potty,
7:10
puts it out in the in the parking lot and puts arc on the
7:13
corner on our That's that's what they're gonna name after us. See what's funny
7:17
is Josh wasn't here for all the times. I used to put like segue
7:21
stuff in there, and we used to have all the fun. I don't
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know if anybody actually listen, any of you guys listen to this show,
7:28
but I used to put fun segue stuff about being in the corner. But
7:31
we have ads when I listen to it, so I don't Yes, we
7:33
do have ads. That's a problem. Somebody's got to pay the light bill.
7:40
Ads. Yeah, they help. Uh. The player with the most
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overall I'm sorry, less of a side event, more of a side happening.
7:48
All wins and the second und Ofer Tournament and the Sunday Mini Tournament will
7:53
be tracked and tabulated by At the end of the event, the player with
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the most overall wins will be named the weekend Key Warrior and receive some bonus
8:03
prizes. That's good. This is good, Like, hey, this is
8:09
the stuff that didn't sell. I don't want to pack it up so you
8:11
can take it home. I mean say, I don't say. It doesn't
8:16
say what it is, so we don't know. It's like, yes,
8:20
you might get more of those damage coins, who knows it's the stuff,
8:22
hopefully to give you a feed or something. I still have damage coins.
8:28
I won't say I use them. Yeah, I USh them. When I
8:33
run out of my regular damage coins, I normally use my one. You
8:39
us need to get some more tokens. You keep running out of everything.
8:41
Well, it's not my fault you steal thirty six member, it's and you
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know, you know who's the worst. Pennies has plenty, you know who's
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the worst. I'm ninety nine point nine percent sure a majority of my tokens
8:54
have ended up in Jr's little damn thing tray he uses because I used to
9:01
have a bunch of those acrylic ember like a lot, and now I'm down
9:05
to like, I don't know twelve. He's maximizing his KeyForge time. He
9:09
is maximizing Yeah, by stealing I'm almost positive he's stealing mine. But regardless,
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merchandise, Vault to Where's attendees will gain access to an exclusive merchandise that
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has only seen limited availability in retail or has until now been limited to game
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found campaigns. These include menagerie decks, unchained decks, housepins, and even
9:33
the flup Plushy. Additional exclusives may be available depending on the specific event location,
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and even more exclusive items remain to be announced. Some items have limited
9:46
availability, like the signed Janet eight by tens or caps on the number of
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items signal individual may buy. What's what's missing? What's missing? Sing?
10:01
Yeah, what's not listed there? Okay, hold on, let me think
10:05
about this. So other stuff that was all a big deal last year.
10:11
Last year the vault Master decks. Oh, the vault Master released until the
10:18
day that I'm gonna put mine on Facebook for three hundred dollars and see what
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I get. Maybe maybe they're going with consistency and the first baut of the
10:26
year doesn't have them. I thought to fly him in from next door.
10:33
I was gonna say, from what down the hall? Like what the palette
10:37
didn't show up? Guys? We sent a pony Express, you see,
10:41
like the the dominant guys over the palette by accident, and it's just cards
10:46
flagged through the parking lot. Luke wandering around in the parking lot. He
10:50
can't find the way into the My key card doesn't work, guys, I
10:56
assume that's I don't know if Jeremy locked him out. You know, it's
11:00
good good pranks, you know, Yeah, I'm missing Palette at Roseville would
11:03
be the Yeah, your home base and it's just gone, like we don't
11:07
know what happened. It's just not here anymore. It must be you know
11:13
what. Then then that's when the arcoves quarters guys get shook down, because
11:18
true, there are one hundred percent looking at us off the bat. Just
11:22
what did you guys do? And it would and and and you know what.
11:26
To be fair, they'd be one hundred percent right to do it because
11:30
it probably was us. I wonder if they do use RFI D chips to
11:37
get in their doors, because there's a new all that little some little do
11:41
Dad you can buy and it'll spoof any anything. And it's like twenty bucks
11:46
or a hundred bucks something. It's pretty cheap and it'll spoof just about anything
11:50
that's r f I D or proximity style. So we can break in.
11:56
Yeah, I'm just saying we can break in. Ye wait to give them?
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Why are we why are we jumping to crimes. Now, way to
12:03
give away all of our secrets. Thanks she I mean first it was the
12:07
reseiling that clue. Now it's the spoofing r if I need d o you
12:11
know what, we should up the price on that now that's oh, that's
12:13
right. Yeah, back to full price for the resealing Gluic ghosts. Yep,
12:18
yep, yep. But we'll also be getting a goodie bag, so
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for the twenty twenty four goodie bags will be oh, I'm sorry, the
12:30
twenty twenty four goodie bags will be cloth. So more backpacks. Josh are
12:37
making more backpacks. They're I think they're the exact same bags we got at
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Worlds. They probably had to print ten thousand of them. Or cloth.
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Those were those clothes there, cloth ish, they're vi. I think those
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are vinyl. Yeah, those are like polyester or something. Josh has been
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busy at work pressing just hundreds of these. He's actually weaving them. He's
13:01
got a big loom back there. Yeah, he's making them all by hand
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and just pressing Q forge onto each one. Although I have to say I
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was I was when the when that was busted, I was like this,
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this is the kind of choch key. Shit, I'm talking about this one.
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Keep me this one, keep me coming back for a little bit,
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not forever. But I was like, oh, this was a nice surprise.
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Did you look at those first place prizes. Well, yeah, let's
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get let's no, we haven't gotten talking about We're getting there. But anyways,
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they're gonna be cloth logo printed bags filled with the following items. Three
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Grim Reminders decks, one Vault to Her pin so you can keep your pin
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collection going sheet with the location name specific to the event, and a mystery
13:45
item that will be revealed. I bet it's that lanyard that's in the picture.
13:50
Yeah. No, it's gonna be the Vault Master twenty four. Oh
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it is, it is correct, just more manange decks probably. Oh so,
14:01
by the way, Vault Warrior decks, which are menagerie decks that are
14:09
now watch Oh Josh, that's what you should do. Should call them arc
14:11
on corner decks. And it's just like thirty six play rats or something.
14:16
No. I would totally love that. I don't know why I love Playgrats,
14:22
but I do. They should just start collecting the leftovers of shredded decks
14:28
and then that stuff they sell them as puzzles KeyForge little KeyForge puzzles. All
14:35
right, So the main tournaments which will be held are Sealed, ARCon and
14:41
Alliance. There will be side tournaments going on. You can participate in as
14:46
many tournaments as you have access to our kind of Alliance. Tournaments will be
14:52
run simultaneously for well attended events, so participants must choose which format they wish
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to play. What constitutes a well attended event eight players per event eight players
15:05
as well? I mean, what if? What if is there gonna be
15:09
bribery going around? Like? Am I going to like? Are they gonna
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be like, hey, we have too many, We have too many for
15:18
now, They're gonna stagger them, just like at Seattle last year. Yeah,
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because because there's not gonna be that many people SEP. I'm also gonna
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need to borrow your for Alliance. I'm also needed going to borrow your Alliance
15:33
deck. Yes, that's Sydney. Oh Sydney, I'm gonna need to borrow
15:39
your Alliance deck. Either one will do so. No, you'll need an
15:46
event key for each one. So what is it fifty Ember shards or something
15:50
like that? I forgot which is an event twenty five? So just four
15:56
boxes of ao A four by it for twenty dollars anyway, Yeah, they
16:02
you can get less than that. Every main tournament will have a registration period,
16:08
typically one hour, but maybe longer or shorter for some events, and
16:11
a start time. Players are encouraged to show up in the early part of
16:15
registration period to ensure they have a spot, and may not be able to
16:19
participate if they show up after the start time, so don't do that.
16:25
Don't be late. All tournaments will offer some the same fantastic prizing for the
16:32
top eight competitors, including a chance to become a Vault Warrior Vault Warrior and
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earn an invite to key Forge twenty four World Championships. I feel like,
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what's that movie was? It'd be like Volt Warriors come out and play what
16:48
is that movie? That's from a movie, and I can't Yeah, that's
16:55
yeah, it's yes, it's from a movie. There you go. Price
16:59
packages will very on overall placement. Says it's from a movie called The Warriors.
17:03
The Warriors, that's what it is. They were. He is correct,
17:07
Yes, he is correct. I don't think I've ever seen it.
17:11
Price packages will vary on overall placements but Vault Tour champions will take home a
17:18
package that includes two special mystery deck displays, each with twelve decks marked with
17:26
the specific Vault Tour, a unique Champion playmat, a Champion Achievement pin,
17:33
and a glass trophy that sheep will then bust over somebody's head. That is
17:41
the goal. Runner up, finishers and the rest of the top eight can't
17:45
expect the combination of mystery displays or mystery decks, play mats, and pinons
17:52
so big. The biggest question we've had is are we happy? So when
17:59
last year when you want a Vault Tour, what did you win? Five
18:03
grand? Five grand? Now now you're getting well, I think idea was
18:11
three grand. It was three grand. Yeah, so we're going from three
18:17
grand to two displays, uh, play matter, achievement pin, and a
18:22
glass trophy. Yeah. Well, so we've already said they had to do
18:25
this right, So I don't them taking away the cash. Yeah, I
18:30
just think to displays. Okay, you're saying it's okay, the cash is
18:36
gone. But I'm fine with well, because here's the deal, Like,
18:38
you can either give out cash or you can give out product, which we
18:42
already kind of have an idea of what the product costs, right, and
18:48
like like two boxes? Two boxes? Yeah, I look, I I
18:56
don't know the what would be the right number or whatever? But two cases?
19:00
I think, what is wrong? What is wrong with that answer?
19:11
Why is that? Check? A second bag? Flag home? That's the
19:15
problem. Too much shit, I can't back it all in here. You
19:19
still you're you're still putting that at a point where just the to yourself the
19:26
cost, what's the cost calculator? Where's my calculator? You want cases?
19:32
Do you mean twelve? They're not a six boxes per case? Right?
19:34
I thought it was always six boxes per case. No, it was always
19:37
twelve. New stuff might be six. Okay, So say you're getting twelve
19:41
boxes, twelve decks and then there what two three dollars a piece or something?
19:49
Is what what it's costing them? What we tabulated what we kind of
19:53
came to the idea of, oh, you know, five, I guess
19:56
that's five hundred dollars worth of stuff us. They got to provide prizing down
20:02
from there. You know, the question is is what is at some point
20:07
you could sit down and do math and try to fer out how much money
20:11
there actually is for prizes. Yeah, there's no perfect number of decks,
20:18
right, Like, there's somebody the two displays for first cool? I really
20:30
like, Hey, it's marked with a specific Vault tour, right, so
20:33
it's got something cool and special that is unique to that event. I think
20:40
that's really cool. So I'm just you know, I'm thinking, what what's
20:48
the actual value? Even if they gave you two cases or whatever, But
20:52
what's the Actually the more they give you of a special print run deck,
20:56
the less the special print value becomes. It's true to that. Yeah,
21:02
do the special print like do special print ones decks have a value if they're
21:07
no good? That is something we were talking about some of the discords after
21:15
this was released. And yeah, I'm I hear you, because like,
21:18
I have plenty of bad Gamma decks and they're worth nothing nothing. So if
21:26
my art decks are worth nothing nothing, I mean they might be worth four
21:30
or five bucks or something, but yeah they really are. What are my
21:36
relationship decks that I got worth right now? Probably ten fifteen. Let's just
21:42
pretend the game gets big, right, because that's our hopes and dreams.
21:45
Right. If the game gets big and there's enough collectors, people will want
21:49
them, right, So you're sort of saying in that how much people go
21:55
back and collect the stuff that they weren't there for, especially in this game
22:00
where like Magic players want old cards, right, yeah, they want old
22:03
cards, but they want old cards because they're good. Like they're not looking
22:07
they're not looking for old old crappy, they're still worth like thirty rare stuff.
22:12
No, even like ALFA Alpha commons are worth it, stupid well Alpha
22:18
Beta stuff, Yes, even third or revised is now getting to the point
22:22
where just crappy comments carry like I think Alpha Lands were still going for like,
22:29
uh like thirty or forty dollars a piece some something like that. But
22:34
I that this is again something I keep saying we got to quit doing,
22:38
is comparing this to other card games, because the what I call the average
22:45
player and just where this game I think is going to be successful is not
22:52
in the realm that is comparable to classic card games. So it's I,
23:00
I don't think we're ever going to have the classic card game value on anything.
23:06
You know what I would actually be more happy with, and again I
23:12
don't know what this, I don't know. I'd be happy with some really
23:17
nice like luxury play style tokens Yeah, they are cool. All costs for
23:26
them, though you have that they don't make it themselves. That I understand
23:30
because they don't make it in house, so it is going to be a
23:33
cost for them. But I don't know. It's something that like. And
23:37
then so many people already have other tokens that they don't want another style token
23:42
in their box. Although there's also this thing is not that long ago.
23:48
We were on this very podcast whinding on about how why don't they just do
23:52
more special print decks, and now we're all of a sudden on this like
23:56
thing. Eh, we don't want any special print. I'm still on board.
23:59
I still like it. I still like I like the battle tested,
24:02
I like the uh what called campaign. Some of us were on board,
24:07
not all of us. Now you were on board with that? Just fine.
24:11
We've also talked a lot. Pretty sure. I wasn't cry. Yeah,
24:18
I was on board for more acrylic tokens. Yes, I I like
24:22
the acrylic tokens. I know I wasn't on board formcial for more special print
24:26
run decks because I was the ewok was how much I do know, but
24:30
I was kind of uh more so now I have crappy decks that have a
24:36
special print. Run Yeah, what so you just want more decks that don't
24:41
have a special print that are crappy. I don't exactly like, we come
24:45
on, we get you know, you gotta get the special ones. I
24:47
would I would find with two cases of just normal reminders, Oh my goodness.
24:55
All right, so the I just would be like, it's just me,
24:57
Like, I mean, I would take them to but they're better because
25:00
they're customized. They're specialized, like there's a limited number of them. You
25:06
have them, Like I would bring them to my locals and be like,
25:10
I'm just gonna try to, you know, roll with uh you know,
25:14
an ARCon Knight with something in here, like be cool. I like the
25:18
Matt. It's a one of one champion, twenty twenty four champion Roseville Matt.
25:23
That's pretty cool. I guess one of three, one of three.
25:29
But yeah, I wonder if they will I wonder if it's gonna be the
25:33
same art and they just changed the banner. Uh oh no, mate,
25:38
I'm I don't know listening. I was a little disappointed when I won Our
25:42
Star Championships. You a, Matt, I was kind of I was kind
25:47
of irritated, Matt. I tryed to the cast say no more, Matt,
25:53
Yeah you know what that I will give you. But like it fell
25:56
hollow. You're like, all of a sudden, it's like, oh shit,
25:59
I'm the winner, and where's where's my Matt? And I tried to
26:03
see this National Championship. What if you could pick the card art that would
26:08
be cool? So you could have a one on one Matt, that says
26:11
Champion Roosevelt twenty twenty four, and it could be any card that would be
26:17
cool. Oh no, I was going in a different direction with this.
26:19
What if, right, you win a Vault Tour and they they immortalize you
26:26
now in a card in the next set, like they just freeze you in
26:29
carbonite. Well no, like I'm saying, like, what the what they
26:32
did? Like they sold it and that thing sold out like immediately, right,
26:36
Like yeah, it's the overpaid for what he did. What if the
26:44
vol Tour winners got their likeness in the in a card from to the next
26:49
set. I wonder, I wonder how much job prap they're gonna have trying
26:57
to deal with that here in the end and actually getting it done. I
27:00
think I do you think I actually think they undersold that at the price they
27:06
put it out with the amount of hassle and work it is. Listen,
27:10
we know how much Z paid for his, Yeah, but that's not what
27:14
most people. That's not how much they got for his So it doesn't matter.
27:18
But I'm saying I think they could have one hundred percent got what Z
27:22
paid for his. I out got much more than they did. Out of
27:27
ten was ten five? How many did they offer or way off target?
27:33
Again, we are that would be a cool prize tomorrow. No, it
27:38
would be a cool prize. That would be a cool place. I think
27:41
if they were going to put that as a price somewhere, it would be
27:45
at the world level. That would also be a cool Yes, all right,
27:51
we are a little off topic because we do have a lot of things
27:52
to talk about. Oh my goodness, of my Gussie, I'm just super
27:59
gassy. Rules Version seventeen point three is out. We're gonna go over the
28:06
new updates. Its way better than point two, way better. Cauldron,
28:12
I don't remember point two has been changed, a little bit of decks is
28:15
a new untamed card and grimmer miners. The original text failed to consider a
28:18
game state that extremely clever key Forge players can accomplish to the new texts adds
28:25
or more to account for this occurrence. So originally it said, omni,
28:29
put the top card of your deck face down under cauldron. If there are
28:32
three cards under cauldron, play them one at a time as if they were
28:37
in your hand. And now it says, put the top card of your
28:40
deck face up under cauldron. If there are three or more cards under cauldron,
28:44
play them one at a time as if they're in your hand. How
28:45
do you get more cards under cauldron? Does this have to do? What's
28:48
our google? Now it's a stealth mode. So if there's a bunch of
28:52
actions under there and your punt played stealth modell back yep, So they'll just
29:00
pop back to where they were, and then right you get a fourth one
29:03
in there next time. All right? Seems strange, but into the war,
29:10
printed text was unfortunately ambiguous and how it should resolve. So originally,
29:15
each player discards the top card of their deck the strange creature that shares a
29:18
house with the discarded card. Now reads each player discards the top card of
29:22
their deck de strayage creature that shares a house with at least one of the
29:26
discarded cards. So it used to be discard two cards and then said only
29:33
destroy for one card. Yeah, so it's oh, I didn't either,
29:41
right, Well, several people read it that way, went well, clearly
29:45
intended is and everybody played it right that I know of or played it.
29:52
As for these new rules, yeah, I didn't even realize that some people
29:56
were confused by it, But I guess I see what they're saying. The
29:59
wording is more clear now. Scoop was just broken. Yeah, yeah,
30:07
scoop up is another installment in the abduction mechanic for House Mars is I'll adopt
30:14
abduction mechanic cards. A simple idea has led to a very complex rules.
30:18
Interaction and winds of exchange and the use of token creatures and the ease that
30:22
players could take control of an enemy creature made the former worming on scoop up
30:27
insufficient. So originally put a friendly non creature, a non Mars creature,
30:33
and an enemy non Marus creature into your archives. If that enemy creature would
30:38
leave your archives, return it to its owner's hand. Instead, now reads
30:42
put a friendly non Marus creature an enemy non Mars creature into your archives.
30:47
If either card leaves your archives and you are not the owner of it put
30:52
it into its owner's hand instead. I didn't really think this one need did
30:59
this one need clarification? Well, yes, because like if you end up
31:04
with one of your creatures on your opponent's battle line, like so you play
31:10
talent Scout right, and then you scoop up the talent Scout and one of
31:14
your dudes, and then as for the previous wording, there was confusion should
31:21
it go to your opponent's hand or to your hand? I guess is what
31:23
it's saying. The other confusion was on the talent scout and you put talent
31:30
Scout on their side and their creature on your side. And when you scoop
31:33
up, you scoop up their creature. That's the targeted enemy creature. So
31:40
there is nowhere where that card goes per the ruling on the card it was.
31:48
It is just we talked about this before on the show. Likes,
31:51
all of these mars Or Abductor style cards are just and it's why destructive analysis
31:59
doesn't work. It's all got to do with that same bunch of r's.
32:04
I still don't know why, Yeah, I don't know why they just don't
32:07
just back out of this and like create a word like abduct or something and
32:13
just have the rule book like exactly what it does. I don't want to
32:15
erot of the number of cars that needn't I I don't know. They're still
32:22
getting wrong either. Wait, what's weird is they didn't did they? Let's
32:31
says Animator here, so hold on because it was Animator, the one that
32:37
we were worried about. What are you talking about because it says you're talking
32:45
about the upgrades on artifacts. Thing that's correct. Whatever Awakening was the new
32:52
geistoid card that wasn't really can tighten that much? I do spontaneous awakening?
32:59
Yeah, they didn't. They did not. No, it wasn't all of
33:07
the medium well of Memory. Where are you even at? So okay?
33:15
I asked questions Animator, Awaken Titan for best Sabrina the medium well of Memory?
33:22
Yeah? They so like well of memory was a thing with it had
33:28
location instead item like a bunch of this was just in traits because the traits
33:31
were wrong. Clarifying on Awaken Titan that it can come into play ready because
33:37
of Animator is the interesting one because it's in the Animator and with the rules
33:45
changes they made in the rest of the book. They fixed the upgrades falling
33:50
off artifacts. Now, if a upgrade goes on artifact, it stays there.
33:57
But if it says this creature gains blah blah blah, yeah, those
34:00
effects do nothing. Well, it's an artifact and that's the anima. That's
34:05
why it's under Animator because Animator can gain upgrades while he's animated into a creature,
34:09
per say, and then when it goes back, it's no longer a
34:13
creature and loses all the bonuses or benefits from the tokens that are on it
34:19
that are creature based, but they're still existent. So if it gets turned
34:22
back into a creature again, they all go back into working. They no
34:27
longer fall off. So they fix, you know, the problem with spontaneous
34:31
awakening. And there was another another one from that does very similar thing.
34:43
Yes, yeah, it's weird, but so they fix that. So that's
34:45
what that's about. Let's get into the biggest pile of the BS that ever
34:52
was a pile of BS. Well, for bending tom is actually a significant
34:57
clarification to rules that isn't clearly impacted anywhere. But you set the number of
35:02
cards you need to draw in your draw step, and then you start drawing.
35:07
So if anything changes the number of your cards in your hand or you
35:10
go from haunted to unhunted or whatever, the number of cards you're drawing doesn't
35:15
change after you set it. Like it used to be. There is some
35:19
question with a forbidden to that you become when you're drawing. At the end
35:23
of your deck, you go from haunted to not haunted, so you go
35:27
from drawing seven back down to six. Yeah, so it says I have
35:30
and tone and play. At the beginning of my draw card step, I
35:34
am haunted and have four cards in my hand, meaning I would draw to
35:37
bring me to seven cards. After drawing two cards, my deck is empty,
35:40
so I shuffle my discard pile into my deck, which means I am
35:44
no longer haunted. Do I still complete the seven card draw? It says
35:49
yes. The number of cards needed to refill your hand during drug card step
35:52
is determined before you draw your cards, which is good. That is a
35:57
good clarification. It's in the rules now, It's not just hidden in an
36:00
FA. Right, well, it isn't an f but it's also actually just
36:07
you set it into the rule book. Okay, yes, yes they did.
36:12
All right, let's get into the big one. This one is probably
36:16
I don't know if it's controversial. Some people are happy, some people are
36:22
not. I am in the not category. Eco Charge is a card introduced
36:27
No I'm this is. Its introduced as an anomaly an ultra ra card type
36:36
and Wins of Exchange set. Later it appeared as a common card and Grimmer
36:38
Minders set, and its minimum Mber requirement was removed. This change left two
36:45
versions of the card of existence. After gathering data from the community on both
36:50
versions, nobody asked me, by the way, we decided to restore the
36:53
minimum Amber requirements. So previously you would forge a key at plus twenty uh
37:01
forge a K plus twenty mber, current cost reduced by one for each card
37:06
in your discard pile if you do purge ecdo charge. Now it reads forge
37:10
a key plus twenty umber current cost reduced by one for each card in your
37:15
discard pile two minimum of six if you do purge ecdo charge. I would
37:22
be fine with what they have done and reinstating the plus six if they did
37:30
not purge ecdo charge, because now it's just it's just it's just spooky charge
37:37
with extra steps. That's worse. They no longer need quote unquote to purge
37:44
it, but I think they want to. I don't remember your original version
37:49
purged itself or not. Yeah I did, This doesn't. This doesn't shuffle
37:53
that spooch key does. But I do get what you're saying. Where now
37:57
it's just like it does feel just like a laan key. It's either often
38:04
much worse than spooky Charge, because when you only have ten cards in your
38:08
discard, spooky Charge gets to go off. And this is junk. Now,
38:14
although it does have the amber pit, so it does forge for one
38:16
lass and you can play it without. If you don't forge, you don't
38:22
you get the amber and you don't have to shuffle, so it does it's
38:25
better in some ways. Yeah, it's it's just a fine key sheet.
38:31
Now. This one was just taken away for the same reason bait and Switch
38:37
is taken away, Not because the act of Forge developers hate players. No
38:45
no, no, no no no. I think maybe this this needed.
38:52
We like we were starting countering situations right on TCO. We were looking at
38:57
decks where people never needed to make ember, Like you could literally just never
39:02
make an ember and you could ecto charge yeah, key abduct key, abduct
39:08
and win Dark Discovery, Dark Discovery that or Dark Discovery Dark Discovery, like
39:14
literally never make an ember except for the pip on ecdo charge incidentally, right,
39:19
yeah, yeah, I mean this happened at my Star Champion. The
39:23
guy did the an Alliance where he basically never needed to make Ember. He
39:30
just ecdo charge key abduction with double nepenthe seed. So this at least makes
39:38
that harder. And we've talked before about ecdo charge basically meaning you only have
39:45
to play the two keys because it's so easy to forge a free key.
39:50
So I think it, I do think it at common right, is going
39:58
to generate a ton of really strong decks and then further boost up your your
40:04
you know your double key sheet. You're the double key. Why is it
40:09
bad to have good like I feel like this is a data situation where it's
40:14
bad to have good car. Why are we having the same discussion we talked
40:17
about this. It's the same reason Bayton switch got nerved. It's not because
40:22
the effect is too good. It's the effect is too good for the commonality.
40:28
They put it in with the other commons and stuff that exist in these
40:32
sets that make it stupid, because it's that's why it has to get addressed.
40:39
It's not because extra Charge on its own is too powerful. It's because
40:45
damn near every deck has it, and it's way too easy to fire.
40:49
And if you're not playing it, So when you open Sealed and you don't
40:52
get it, you're at an immediate significant disadvantage right off of one stinking car
40:59
Well, but if you're playing Sealed right now and you don't pull Geistoid,
41:02
you're already at an immediate dissage. But this was part of the help the
41:07
uh. And you know, I think part of the challenge we're seeing with
41:12
the top level decks was that there's a lot of like solitaire situations going on
41:19
where you're just you're just pulling through your disccard, you're doing this that the
41:22
other thing, you're putting things in your archives. You don't even care what
41:24
your opponent's doing. You're just trying to trigger. And definitely Eco charge was
41:29
a big part of that, and I think, like the solitaire thing isn't
41:35
a great thing to have in the game. So that's why Lands was was
41:40
nuked, right, So I think this was the right move, But what
41:46
are your okay? So but here we are. We haven't even gotten to
41:50
the twenty twenty four vault. We haven't even got the season hasn't even kicked
41:53
off yet, and we've already we've already changed a card. Yeah, not
42:00
actually changed a card two weeks before we've changed We've totally changed a car necessarily
42:07
for one event and not another. Yep, is that necessary? I think,
42:13
like I I I think that that like there's still going to be some
42:17
crazy g r out there that this. I think we'll see what happens,
42:22
right, but but definitely with this that doctor Zixel Fricks. Yeah right,
42:27
I am Target and Doctor Zixel Fricks Target, and I'm sorry the Rebel that's
42:34
the one I'm looking for. Like, I think Mars is going to be
42:37
way more broken than this at top end stuff. Absolutely, yeah, a
42:42
double key of doctor even Sydney rule of six, like four Mars creatures this
42:47
this that's because Mars is good and also needs some addressing. I I actually
42:54
say, it's like, how did this ship get printed this way? And
43:00
then afterwards like what's the point of play testing? It's really strange, right,
43:05
like like clearly the original thought was, hey, it should it should
43:13
go to a minimum of six, right, because that was what the original
43:15
card said, and then I guess they just yeah, I don't know.
43:22
I'm not a playtester. I don't know how this played out. I like,
43:25
but do we but the other short playtesters can't tell us the details,
43:29
so uh, you know. But like now, it's like it feels like
43:34
it doesn't need to purge itself because probably it's fine. It probably doesn't,
43:40
but I don't actually think it purging or not purging itself is going to matter
43:45
enough to Yeah, yeah, it doesn't worry me that difference. I mean,
43:50
like what what uh what what would it get by not purging itself?
43:54
You could with it, Yeah, you can loop it so if you have
44:00
a way to get to ridiculous counts of amber which actually outside of bars,
44:05
and then you just key cheat over there. Anyways, when we're talking about
44:07
arc on silliness or line silliness, I don't yeah, I don't think it
44:14
matters if it purges itself or not, because it's not a good enough key
44:17
cheat now where you're going to want to do it that much. Anyways,
44:21
because like and now somebody's talking about Winds of Death. I feel like I
44:24
shouldn't even talk about good cards anymore because they just get nerved. Like when's
44:30
the death good too? Yeah, I mean, like when when's a death
44:34
and enabler card? You want to talk about that stuff? When's the death
44:37
just pretty much if it's placed at the end of your deck sets up a
44:40
pretty good key abduction well, well met sets things anywhere. It needs to
44:45
be like that too. I'm with you because, like when I actually think
44:50
it's winds of Death, key abduction is far more broken, yeah, than
44:53
any of this junk we're talking about. Well, you just had both right
44:58
because it's eco charge is right. So if you had windows Death winds of
45:01
Death key abduction probably had ecto charge right. So it just made it that
45:07
much easier just to do stuff your opponent can't do anything about. I don't
45:14
know what. Yeah, no, it wins of Death as a common key
45:17
abduction might be uncommon. It is, it is, yeah, but there's
45:22
plenty of doubles out there. But still just I mean, I don't know,
45:28
like it just I was a little teed off that echo charge got hit.
45:34
It's just like, great, another another card that we can see in
45:37
a slot that most players can get it, and we're just not allowed to
45:42
have nice things. But your problem is you're not thinking about how your nice
45:47
things work at top end. Like, oh no, I am, and
45:51
I know it's going to be good at top end, but it's so bad
45:54
at the top end. It's good if it becomes that critical to but we
46:00
don't know how critical it is. We haven't seen the top end of g
46:05
R. Now we if we can't identify ridiculous stuff before it hits the thing,
46:10
like we've always been able to do that with some skill mm hmm,
46:15
and like practice, we've practiced enough with GR that thing is stupid. Yep,
46:22
yep. I think I think going before the vault was the right move.
46:27
There's there's definitely some folks who are probably upset because they just spent a
46:30
bunch of money on on Now. But I'm I don't know. The guy
46:37
who buy a deck off of Maybe he now was like, oh shit,
46:39
I should have sold that deck to Jazcar. You know, if if the
46:44
ECTO charge switches your deck for being good, too bad, I'm no,
46:50
it's not bad, but I'm of the opinion then the deck probably wasn't that
46:54
good. I haven't that. I was looking lately to see if it took
47:00
a hit. I don't even know if it's been programmed into into Dexa key
47:05
Ford jets. So I don't think so I doubt it. Oh yeah,
47:08
it just this just happened yesterday, right, So you know there was a
47:14
time when Dexic key forders on top of it ship just saying yeah, there
47:19
was a time when ten times as many Keyfde decks were being sold per month.
47:23
Mm hmm. This is also true. Yeah, I'm just I'm I'm
47:31
just straught fanning my spanning myselves with my hands. You know what, buddy,
47:37
you weren't playing any good gr decks coming up anyway, so this is
47:40
nothing but good news for you. Well it is good news for me going
47:45
into going into Roseville. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I was like,
47:51
well dodged a bullet on now on mm hmm. But like, I have
47:54
a really good Ecto charge deck. Actually I should go back to slow Walk
48:00
Slow deck because that is very good but doesn't have Ecto charge. And I
48:05
was like, well, it doesn't have Ecto charge, so it can't be
48:07
that great. I mean I have a I have a ninety two Ecto charge
48:10
deck that could did definitely. It also has e Gottens in it, but
48:15
definitely pulled out the Uh, it definitely did a thing. Now I'm looking
48:20
at I'm looking at Foxfire, going maybe this isn't that bad because it does
48:24
a thing too. Yeah. Essentially, my best GR deck was one of
48:31
the best GR decks I had because it could often purge the opponents acto charge
48:37
before they could use it. And now it's lost that strength. So I
48:44
do wonder if anybody tried the thing that we were talking about. Camera fell
48:49
was on the cast or off the cast, But we talked about how ecto
48:53
charge Ken Maverick. So would somebody get like boo boo ecto charge m with
49:01
like some sort of recursion and then just get ecto charge in each house and
49:07
all you care is that you have ecdo charge in each of those houses and
49:10
just win that way. I don't remember where we talked about was that when
49:15
we were talking about ecdo charge like Mavericking and trying to build an alliance that
49:20
just just three ecto charge and double boo three ecto charge and you might you
49:23
might actually do pretty well with that. I mean, you might still do
49:28
pretty well with that. Who knows well now now now I mean not well
49:34
maybe, But now the other cards in the deck matter now before remember we
49:37
were like it doesn't matter what the other cards in the deck, making eighteen
49:40
to ambers pretty good way to win the game without Eco charge. Yeah no,
49:47
I don't know. I just I feel just all the cards I like
49:51
just seem to find their way on in the nerve file. Like I don't
49:55
know, Like I was a big fan of bait and switch that went to
49:59
the nerve pile. What's what's your new? What's your favorite now that to
50:01
charge is gone? I don't, I don't know, you know what I
50:08
say you, I don't know what my favorite is? Iron ironyx ironyx Rebel.
50:15
Oh, Iron ex Rebel is really good. Ironyx Rebels Now sets its
50:20
been in? Are you? Are you asking for a band? Feel free?
50:24
Feel free to nerve it at any point? Are to take that away
50:28
so you can get back to nar Yeah, I can get back to like
50:30
just the best card of the game. Yeah, then then what can be
50:34
happy? I feel like that's where we're headed. I feel it's like every
50:38
card is based off there's every card of the set is better than snarp.
50:45
Yeah. Well no, yeah, every card in the set is better than
50:49
the next. It's the next. Uh just auto generated just changes the letter
50:52
and then creates a different possibility. This is darb and FARP, and that's
51:01
how that's how they're gonna name Uh, that's how they're gonna name brob Nar
51:05
from here on out. It's just it's a different form of NARP. We're
51:07
just gonna change the front letter. I mean, I thought that's already what
51:10
they did for Mars. Like they just sex z y's and x's and then
51:19
stick some land and balls in there and you got a name. Nice sounds
51:22
about right, I mean, But then like, oh, why why are
51:28
cards like befuddled not getting nerved? Why did befuddle not eat a nerve?
51:32
The fuddled is definitely overpowered and it's a common because it didn't win. What
51:39
do you mean it didn't win enough? We don't and ecdo charge did yep,
51:45
boy, that's some data that we don't have and won a lot of
51:50
hatred. Yeah, befuddled or ecdo charge, ECTO charge because I mean again,
51:57
like befuddled is got a bust to just saying I didn't. Yeah,
52:02
I mean I didn't. It's it's fine, it's not it, but doesn't
52:13
just do that thing you need lots of I mean, one copy of Ecto
52:19
Charge doesn't do a thing either. It can pretty said thist just to hold
52:29
Eco Charge the whole game, right, so so, but but I also
52:35
I could I could also end up booing it into my graveyard. That happens,
52:40
and you turn all your fuddles into tokens. That's a dumb argument you're
52:45
making right now. Don't turn into tokens. They just turn into tears.
52:49
For me, we did get befuddled pretty heavily at our store championships to triple
52:55
the fuddle docs, What what do you mean we I got the fuddled?
53:00
You're right, well, if you just lost like me, you didn't have
53:02
to play those decks. I ate every of every one of those six befuddles,
53:07
every single one, and you still won one of those games, So
53:12
I did. I didn't get a mat for it, though I tried to
53:17
steal. So we got anything else? Now? That's that's all we got
53:22
this week. I just I'm up set my my beloved Ecto Charge. You
53:27
know what you I don't know how much I loved Ecto Charge. I put
53:30
a I put a picture, I took a I downloaded Ecto Charge into my
53:36
iPhone. Not only is it my iPhone screensaver. It is a picture on
53:40
my Apple Watch. I loved the Echto Charge. I was like, this
53:46
is disappointing life. I live a disappointment for why. Yeah, if you're
53:52
that interested in Ecto Charge. I loved Ecto Charge. It was fantastic.
53:57
It needed it needed no bad and sing. It was fine the way it
54:01
was three of them. It was fine the way it was. Maybe the
54:07
rest of the set needed all right. Well, in two weeks you can
54:13
tell Wookie in person he is and dress Bar will support you. I will
54:21
not, or I will be somewhere else. I will. I will be
54:24
in the Texas Vault, so you can find me there. And I'm still
54:28
planning the Vegas Vault. He will officially be Booze cruising. He'll be on
54:34
a cruise with Booze more than likely, probably a cocktail in his hand.
54:38
Probably not a cocktail in my hand. Okay, Well, I don't know.
54:43
I was going to ask you what your cocktail of choice was, but
54:45
never mind, you've ruined it all. I'm bringing port. You can bring
54:51
Booze on a cruise. You can bring two bottles of wine. Port is
54:54
wine. I know what port is, thank you. It's my cheat.
55:00
I don't think it technic accounts, but they've never stopped me. You'll never
55:06
catch me. Anyways. I think that's gonna do it for us tonight.
55:16
Please support me in the new hashtag hashtag on nerf Ecto charge. You can
55:22
put it. You can put it right next to the other hashtag, un
55:28
Nerve bait and Switch. I will I'm behind you on bait and switch now
55:31
that can become on nerf now. I think all right, well on Nerve
55:37
bait and Switch. Please, love of God. Anyways, that's gonna do
55:44
it for us tonight. Thank you all for coming out on this oddly time
55:49
Saturday show. Because Gigi likes to release episodes or likes to release articles on
55:53
Friday, the day after they know we record, Yes, this record,
56:00
they release an article and they somehow know that Sheep and Dress are unavailable on
56:06
Friday nights. We are uh, we are pretty full of ourselves. Yep,
56:10
we sure are. I mean they do steal all of our ideas except
56:13
for weekend keyword. No, they only take your bad ideas for true.
56:20
When you ask me why they only take my bad ones, as I said,
56:22
it's because it's all I have. Still not official they're not taking the
56:30
good ideas. That's not and it's also not mine. Yeah, so it's
56:34
ours, it's yours, it's it's one hundred percent yours. You own but
56:42
one day. But that's a guy doing for us this week. Guys,
56:45
thank you so much for tuning in. We'll see y'all next week at George
56:50
and everyone who's doing who's made a four with you? Where is that guy?
57:00
I don't know if he's got a Hwaiian he's a Hian pirate