Latest / Houselights: A Film Director Podcast / La Femme Nikita (1990) - Luc Besson | Houselights #257

Transcript

La Femme Nikita (1990) - Luc Besson | Houselights #257 · Houselights: A Film Director Podcast

0:03
Speaker 1: Welcome to the ned party. No unto manza un ratuspective
0:26
Speaker 1: Luke Berson Nakita nineteen nanti lufim Quille, It's Quizim's quiz
0:38
Speaker 1: tonight on house lights. We began a Luke Besson resperspective
0:41
Speaker 1: with Lafim Nikita from a nineteen ninety the film that
0:45
Speaker 1: put him on the international map and laid out almost
0:49
Speaker 1: everything he'd obsess over for the next decade. Criminality as
0:53
Speaker 1: an organized system, style as a form of identity, and
0:57
Speaker 1: violence being used as control. It's a French quote unquote
1:01
Speaker 1: thriller that quietly rewired how assassin stories work and then
1:06
Speaker 1: got remade, exported and imitated endlessly. With me is cool,
1:12
Speaker 1: alert and already three steps ahead of the conversation Darren
1:16
Speaker 1: Moser and bringing strong Victor the cleaner energy, calm, precise,
1:22
Speaker 1: and just itching for someone to make a mistake. John Mills.
1:27
Speaker 1: Lifim Nikita means every birthday present is the assassin's equivalent
1:31
Speaker 1: of socks and underwear, and every vacation means you have
1:34
Speaker 1: to bring your laptop, let's rage, pick up a fiance
1:38
Speaker 1: at the grocery store and bite our sense.
1:41
Speaker 2: Okay, I mean you've definitely laid out a to do
1:43
Speaker 2: list there. I don't know that Victor is really as calm,
1:47
Speaker 2: cool and collected as he'd.
1:48
Speaker 3: Like to think he is.
1:50
Speaker 2: He seems to have some anger issues, but again still appropriate,
1:54
Speaker 2: still appropriate.
1:55
Speaker 1: Yeah, he's kind of the worst cleaner, Like he's the
1:58
Speaker 1: cleaner that makes the biggest mess. I think he really does.
2:02
Speaker 3: He really does.
2:03
Speaker 2: There are a couple of like, you know, te's that
2:05
Speaker 2: should be crossed and eyes that should be dotted before
2:08
Speaker 2: using acid, I would offer, but if.
2:11
Speaker 4: These bottles have acid, then the restaurants no, where's my
2:17
Speaker 4: holy water? I will say, I was totally going to
2:21
Speaker 4: do the entire podcast at French, but you would have
2:23
Speaker 4: to turn the subtitles on and I don't think that
2:25
Speaker 4: would be a very good audio experience, so I think
2:28
Speaker 4: I'll just do English.
2:29
Speaker 3: So I definitely think.
2:32
Speaker 2: That the they maybe should take another pass at the
2:36
Speaker 2: translations and the subtitles, because this film very much seemed
2:41
Speaker 2: to suffer from what I would run across from time
2:44
Speaker 2: to time watching you know, different like anime films in
2:47
Speaker 2: the original Japanese and stuff like that, where it was
2:49
Speaker 2: like you would read it and you're like, I know,
2:51
Speaker 2: that's literally what the words are, but I think the
2:54
Speaker 2: spirit of what they're saying is not quite there. I
2:57
Speaker 2: think we need to practice our idioms a little bit better.
3:00
Speaker 3: From time, like was.
3:04
Speaker 1: Like there was like they I remember there was some
3:05
Speaker 1: introductions and they said enchante and it means how.
3:08
Speaker 3: Do you do?
3:09
Speaker 1: Like I I get what they were going for. But
3:12
Speaker 1: at the same time, I was like, I don't speak
3:14
Speaker 1: a lot of French, but there's was more than a
3:17
Speaker 1: few times when I'm like, that's not what that word means.
3:20
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's not the equivalent of s you know, like
3:23
Speaker 2: it's you know that sort of thing.
3:26
Speaker 4: You know it did both of you watch it with
3:28
Speaker 4: subtitles then and the original audio? Yes, yes, because I
3:31
Speaker 4: watched it with the dub and you heretic it was
3:36
Speaker 4: not the best dub I've ever heard. It was very
3:39
Speaker 4: like like and now we're going to go here, Yes,
3:42
Speaker 4: I'm going to go here right now? Yes we should
3:44
Speaker 4: go Yes, let's go like it. That's what it was
3:47
Speaker 4: the entire movie. So, uh, it really made me appreciate
3:51
Speaker 4: good dubbing really makes a difference. So it wasn't unwatchable
3:54
Speaker 4: by any means, but it was very wooden and it's still.
4:00
Speaker 1: I think that's one of the reasons why I can't
4:02
Speaker 1: really handle dubs, is because you know, there's there's often
4:07
Speaker 1: times when you'll get a dub and it's a really
4:10
Speaker 1: good dub where you get some you get some voice
4:12
Speaker 1: actors who are really involved and they really want to
4:15
Speaker 1: do it, and you get a production company where there's
4:17
Speaker 1: a lot of love behind it and they try to
4:19
Speaker 1: get the intonation, they try to get the verb right,
4:23
Speaker 1: but it's really hard because like something in Japanese or
4:25
Speaker 1: French that takes ten seconds could take you know, maybe
4:29
Speaker 1: fifteen in English, and so they're trying to like cut
4:32
Speaker 1: it down and put it together. And then there's other
4:34
Speaker 1: times when it's just like, yeah, say these words, just
4:36
Speaker 1: just say it. It doesn't matter, and you never know
4:39
Speaker 1: which dub you're gonna get.
4:40
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's it's definitely, I mean, with the esteem that
4:43
Speaker 2: this film has around it, I'm surprised that, you know,
4:47
Speaker 2: whether it's the subtitles or the dub. I mean, like
4:51
Speaker 2: this seems like something where it has enough positive energy
4:54
Speaker 2: around it in the States at least that they would
4:56
Speaker 2: have taken more care.
4:58
Speaker 1: You'd think, especially with like the four K release, Like
5:01
Speaker 1: the four K remaster. You know, you'd think they do
5:04
Speaker 1: something behind that, where like, if it has enough enough
5:08
Speaker 1: of a cult following to garner a really, really pristine,
5:13
Speaker 1: in my opinion, four K release, you'd think that at
5:15
Speaker 1: least get the subtitles to be a little bit more
5:17
Speaker 1: on point, or the dub to be a little bit better.
5:20
Speaker 1: But hell, we're in an age now where oh god,
5:23
Speaker 1: don't get me started, but like where we're getting like
5:26
Speaker 1: beloved anime with AI dubs instead of actual people. So
5:31
Speaker 1: it's only gonna.
5:32
Speaker 2: Get worse, probably so, But at the same time, it's
5:38
Speaker 2: I don't know, it's really weird because you know, and
5:41
Speaker 2: I know how this is going to sound. And I'm
5:44
Speaker 2: not making a Lucas reference here, but film is a
5:46
Speaker 2: visual medium, so like it's one of those things where
5:50
Speaker 2: I think, I don't want to obsess too much about
5:53
Speaker 2: the dub or the subtitles because at a certain level,
5:55
Speaker 2: it's like trying to look at it from the perspective
5:58
Speaker 2: of this director is now for his visual style and
6:01
Speaker 2: what he attacks and how he constructs things, you know,
6:04
Speaker 2: like that for me, that's the biggest thing is like
6:06
Speaker 2: did the visual style make up for the deficiencies in
6:08
Speaker 2: the audio or subtitling for you.
6:10
Speaker 1: Guys, right, did it? Did it compasate for it? Okay, Yeah, yeah,
6:14
Speaker 1: I think so. I think that's a solid point. I mean,
6:16
Speaker 1: because you know, we're looking at it from a very
6:18
Speaker 1: American perspective, you know, from a very monolingual which you
6:23
Speaker 1: know is you know, kind of redundant when you say American,
6:26
Speaker 1: but it's you know, it's I think with something like
6:29
Speaker 1: this where this is a type of movie and I
6:32
Speaker 1: know it's I know people say this to sound intelligent,
6:35
Speaker 1: but I truly mean this that this is one of
6:37
Speaker 1: those movies where you could turn off the subtitles and
6:40
Speaker 1: still know exactly what's going on.
6:43
Speaker 3: Yeah.
6:43
Speaker 2: Yeah, And that's I mean, that's a tribute to the actors.
6:45
Speaker 2: And I mean, I guess you know, that's something I
6:46
Speaker 2: guess that you should give the song credit for, is
6:50
Speaker 2: that he gets those performances from the actors. They are
6:54
Speaker 2: obviously responding to the script and what he's laying out
6:56
Speaker 2: there for them. And you know, to your point, yeah,
6:59
Speaker 2: you could have turned off the subtitles in that scene
7:01
Speaker 2: where she's having that sort of crisis emotionally while she
7:05
Speaker 2: has to commit the assassination. In the bathroom of a
7:08
Speaker 2: place where she thought she was just going to be
7:10
Speaker 2: able to go on vacation with the love of her life,
7:13
Speaker 2: and he's on the other side trying to understand what's
7:15
Speaker 2: going on in there, and it's you know, I think
7:19
Speaker 2: that's a really well constructed scene in those terms. I'm
7:23
Speaker 2: just not sure if the film like this is something
7:27
Speaker 2: where I think that it very much points to, like
7:31
Speaker 2: like you said in your intro, where bism is headed.
7:34
Speaker 2: But I don't know that it's really a calling card
7:37
Speaker 2: film the way that I've come to expect it to be,
7:40
Speaker 2: because this is my first time seeing it. I've heard
7:42
Speaker 2: so much about so much about this movie. There are
7:46
Speaker 2: two TV series based on it. They're like, there's the
7:49
Speaker 2: Bridget Fonda was in an American remake. There was there
7:53
Speaker 2: was like a Hong Kong remake. There was like two
7:56
Speaker 2: other remakes in other countries. So obviously this film had
7:59
Speaker 2: an impact, a big impact. And that's just the thing
8:02
Speaker 2: that I'm sort of like trying to cope with is like,
8:04
Speaker 2: I think the expectation was too big coming into this thing.
8:08
Speaker 4: Well, you know, often or not often, but occasionally, as
8:11
Speaker 4: we're talking about directors, I will say, especially in the
8:15
Speaker 4: early work, I can't they haven't found their visual yet, Like, oh,
8:22
Speaker 4: this could just be any film. It doesn't necessarily feel
8:24
Speaker 4: like this director just yet. Not The case for me
8:29
Speaker 4: was Boisan with this one. I could immediately see where
8:33
Speaker 4: he's going, like the low shot in the courtroom that's
8:37
Speaker 4: taking you down the aisle and up through the prosecution
8:41
Speaker 4: box to just yeah, just shot selection. You could tell
8:46
Speaker 4: this is the type of film and type of director
8:49
Speaker 4: that is telling you things, world building in itself with
8:54
Speaker 4: how they shoot things, and he just he never stops
8:59
Speaker 4: doing that. From all the other pieces of his I've seen,
9:02
Speaker 4: some of which we'll cover in the next couple of weeks.
9:05
Speaker 3: But it was it was nice.
9:06
Speaker 4: It was nice to see and I get what you're saying, John,
9:09
Speaker 4: where the calling card is just starting. But I can
9:13
Speaker 4: definitely aras twisted said someone who likes cops, and yeah,
9:19
Speaker 4: I kept thinking of fifth Element, like oh, yeah, like
9:22
Speaker 4: that is kind of like that and except for large
9:25
Speaker 4: and in a sci fi, you know, fashion. But it
9:30
Speaker 4: was a nice refreshing start to have something that off
9:34
Speaker 4: the bat was already telling this director's signature, and that's
9:38
Speaker 4: just fun, especially on this kind of podcast.
9:41
Speaker 1: And I forgot to mention that this is Luke Bison
9:44
Speaker 1: on the nineties of the nineties. That's who, That's what
9:47
Speaker 1: we're because you know, sometimes we do restrospectives of everybody.
9:50
Speaker 1: Sometimes we like their entire film works. Sometimes we do
9:54
Speaker 1: just a certain decade or just when they started. But
9:57
Speaker 1: Bison is is just to the nineties, and this was
10:00
Speaker 1: his first one. This was in nineteen ninety and you know,
10:03
Speaker 1: as I talked about it, you know, and John, you know,
10:06
Speaker 1: this made an impact globally. I mean, this put him
10:09
Speaker 1: on the international stage, and it arrived at a moment
10:13
Speaker 1: when French thrillers or even European thrillers were kind of
10:19
Speaker 1: restrained where it was you know, pseudo realistic and kind
10:24
Speaker 1: of monotone. And the song was kind of made some
10:29
Speaker 1: waves because he injected some fashion and some you know,
10:34
Speaker 1: you know, pop culture scoring and you know, the violence
10:37
Speaker 1: was was crazy and it immediately immediately launched his career
10:42
Speaker 1: into bigger, more commercial projects.
10:46
Speaker 2: You know, looking at it, what I wonder, because we're
10:50
Speaker 2: talking about the impact, is I wonder if this is
10:53
Speaker 2: sort of an unacknowledged trailblazer. I don't want to say trailblazer,
10:58
Speaker 2: but like this this is a first step toward somebody
11:03
Speaker 2: like Tarantino getting his foot in the door, because it
11:06
Speaker 2: warms up audiences in other markets, you know, the international market,
11:11
Speaker 2: if you will, but especially the American market for that.
11:13
Speaker 2: What you're saying, the stylized violence, the stylized dialogue and interest.
11:19
Speaker 2: You know, the characters are all very unique. I can
11:23
Speaker 2: clearly draw a distinction between each character and this film.
11:26
Speaker 2: This person is this, This person is this, This person
11:28
Speaker 2: is this even visually I can look at them and
11:30
Speaker 2: I can say, I know what type of personality each
11:33
Speaker 2: person this is.
11:34
Speaker 3: And maybe this is.
11:36
Speaker 2: Something where it doesn't get enough acknowledgment for paving the
11:40
Speaker 2: way for those sorts of things, because American action movies
11:44
Speaker 2: pre lefem Nikita there. You know, it's McTiernan style stuff.
11:48
Speaker 2: It's very big, it's it's it's very you know, it's
11:51
Speaker 2: shot a very certain way. Taking nothing away from mc
11:54
Speaker 2: tiernan at the show. Yeah, action movies, I guess kind
11:59
Speaker 2: of globally shift a bit after this. You know, maybe
12:03
Speaker 2: this points us toward you know, the evolution of the
12:06
Speaker 2: action film overall, and even more.
12:09
Speaker 1: You know, like specific than that, the female espionage expert
12:14
Speaker 1: is you know, grew exponentially because of this, Like think
12:17
Speaker 1: about post nineteen ninety, like think about the nineties, think
12:21
Speaker 1: about the early two thousands with the female espionage agent.
12:25
Speaker 1: We would not have had alias if it wasn't for
12:29
Speaker 1: La fem Nikita. And and like you know, like you know,
12:32
Speaker 1: John you talked about at the beginning, you know, like
12:34
Speaker 1: there was two TV shows one with Peta Wilson I
12:38
Speaker 1: think is her name, like Pete, one with Peter Wilson,
12:40
Speaker 1: then one with Maggie Q and and of course you
12:44
Speaker 1: know Point of No Return.
12:45
Speaker 3: With Bridge of Fun Bridgefonda.
12:49
Speaker 1: And my dad watched that movie ah the freaking time,
12:53
Speaker 1: Like he loved Bridge Fonda so much. And I actually remember, uh,
12:59
Speaker 1: he had this movie on and it was a scene
13:02
Speaker 1: where I didn't like, there was no talking. It was
13:04
Speaker 1: just like a gunfight. I think it was the kitchen scene.
13:07
Speaker 1: And I was like, Oh, is this Point of No Return?
13:09
Speaker 1: He's like, nopeh uh.
13:15
Speaker 2: You know it's I would be interested to see Point
13:18
Speaker 2: of No Return now because I didn't see I've never
13:20
Speaker 2: seen it, but I would be really interested to see
13:25
Speaker 2: how that was translated to you know. I mean they
13:28
Speaker 2: basically Magnificent sevened this and.
13:31
Speaker 3: It would be interesting to see. Yeah, yeah, yeah, because
13:34
Speaker 3: it can get a feel for us.
13:35
Speaker 1: I've seen it now.
13:36
Speaker 2: The one thing I'll sort of throw this movie under
13:39
Speaker 2: the bus. Four is one thing that I think did
13:42
Speaker 2: not age very well at all was the music. The
13:44
Speaker 2: music is so oh my goodness, it is so of
13:48
Speaker 2: its time that it's like it took me out of
13:50
Speaker 2: it a couple of times.
13:51
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm so glad you brought that up at the
13:53
Speaker 1: beginning of the show, Darren. How did you feel about
13:56
Speaker 1: the music, Like, did you notice it at all? Was
13:58
Speaker 1: it so ninety that you wanted to go drink some surge?
14:02
Speaker 1: You're like, what what? What happened?
14:03
Speaker 4: Oh?
14:04
Speaker 3: What a pull? Oh my gosh.
14:06
Speaker 4: Yeah, you know, honestly, what it made me think of
14:08
Speaker 4: is like nineties video game music, like the kind of
14:11
Speaker 4: music you have in a first person outer like who
14:15
Speaker 4: is great for that? Not for a feature film, Like again,
14:20
Speaker 4: it was better than no music, but it wasn't. Yeah,
14:23
Speaker 4: I could see how it took you out of it sometimes.
14:25
Speaker 1: John, Yeah, it was done by Eric Sarah. Wow is
14:30
Speaker 1: that right? Which is really funny Darren. It's really funny
14:35
Speaker 1: that you bring up video game music, because John don't
14:39
Speaker 1: look anything up. Don't look anything up. Look turn your
14:41
Speaker 1: head a way. Okay, okay, okay, what what video game
14:45
Speaker 1: do you think of when you think of this?
14:48
Speaker 4: But it's what I was thinking of. It was good
14:51
Speaker 4: gold is it?
14:52
Speaker 3: Okay?
14:52
Speaker 1: It was GoldenEye. Do you know who composed GoldenEye?
14:57
Speaker 4: It's got to be this guy. Then the only way
14:59
Speaker 4: you're gonna hate me in this it.
15:00
Speaker 1: Is this guy.
15:01
Speaker 4: Wow.
15:02
Speaker 1: Eric Sarah composed the movie GoldenEye, and GoldenEye sixty four's
15:08
Speaker 1: you know, soundtrack was based off of his work. And
15:12
Speaker 1: then we get I.
15:13
Speaker 4: Will say that is better, a better score, like, oh,
15:17
Speaker 4: overall it has the roots in in this like that
15:24
Speaker 4: doesn't surprise me at all. That was a circular Oh yeah,
15:26
Speaker 4: we were right back where we started, right before we started.
15:29
Speaker 4: And also like later on when we get to the
15:32
Speaker 4: Fifth Element, because we're gonna do uh for ladies and
15:35
Speaker 4: gentlemen at home, uh, where we're doing le fem Nikita,
15:38
Speaker 4: then Leon the Professional, then the Fifth Element, and then
15:42
Speaker 4: the Messenger. He did all of them.
15:44
Speaker 1: And yeah, Eric Sarah's composition in the Fifth Element is
15:49
Speaker 1: fan freakantastic and its into the digital ness of it,
15:54
Speaker 1: you know, it leans into into the pop stuff of it,
15:56
Speaker 1: but in a in a much more palatable way. I
15:59
Speaker 1: think that was one of the weakest things of this
16:03
Speaker 1: movie was the composition. But John, I want to ask
16:07
Speaker 1: you about what did you think about the Leeds performance
16:11
Speaker 1: on Pario.
16:12
Speaker 3: I thought that she was very good.
16:15
Speaker 2: I think that the film as a whole didn't support
16:18
Speaker 2: her adequately. I think that the way things were constructed
16:22
Speaker 2: undercut her performance so so much so at certain points
16:25
Speaker 2: that like at the end, when she's begging Victor just
16:29
Speaker 2: to go, just not to kill anybody else, let's get
16:32
Speaker 2: out of here, it seemed to come out of left field,
16:35
Speaker 2: like it was. It just didn't seem to go together.
16:38
Speaker 2: And it's like I could tell that she was doing
16:40
Speaker 2: something in that scene, but the film didn't get me there.
16:44
Speaker 3: It just sort of leaped to that point.
16:46
Speaker 1: It didn't feel like an earned moment right exactly.
16:50
Speaker 4: And Yeah, for me, she she never the character never
16:57
Speaker 4: got out of being a tool, being a weapon, and
17:00
Speaker 4: never had that agency, that protagonist agency you need. And
17:06
Speaker 4: it's like they tried, but it never crossed that threshold
17:10
Speaker 4: where oh now she's calling the shots. Oh now she's
17:14
Speaker 4: leading her own life or making her own choices. Every
17:18
Speaker 4: moment of this movie, and even from the beginning when
17:22
Speaker 4: the courtroom, you're like, oh, this is badass. She's good,
17:25
Speaker 4: she already has some skill, but now no, we're going
17:28
Speaker 4: to programm her. We're gonna teach her she's not good enough,
17:32
Speaker 4: and so she never like I thought they were gonna
17:35
Speaker 4: set her up as being more already in this world
17:38
Speaker 4: rather than starting from scratch. And yeah it and so
17:43
Speaker 4: I think that's why in those scenes where she's you know,
17:46
Speaker 4: calling out in despair against the system, it just feels
17:51
Speaker 4: like a passenger.
17:52
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think you're absolutely right, And that's actually a
17:55
Speaker 1: common criticism of this film even back then, even in
17:58
Speaker 1: nineteen ninety. Like I know, with that we're looking at
18:01
Speaker 1: it in a twenty twenty five lens, But there is
18:04
Speaker 1: a severe lack of agency for this character. And you know,
18:09
Speaker 1: like not only as that doubly horrible because she's a woman,
18:12
Speaker 1: but every interaction that she has in her life in
18:16
Speaker 1: the movie is dictated and shaped by men, men that
18:20
Speaker 1: she either has a father figure relationship or even like
18:23
Speaker 1: a pseudo you know, father romantic relationship with. And so
18:28
Speaker 1: it's it is difficult because you like it's kind of
18:31
Speaker 1: a double edged sword. Where one thing I really enjoyed
18:35
Speaker 1: is from a story standpoint, she was not picked because
18:39
Speaker 1: she was taekwondo expert, or because she was a munitions
18:42
Speaker 1: export or because she's had you know, like ten years
18:46
Speaker 1: experience in the military. It's because she was wild. She
18:49
Speaker 1: had nothing left to lose and you know, moral ambiguity.
18:54
Speaker 3: That was it.
18:54
Speaker 1: That's why she was chosen. And then from there, you know,
18:57
Speaker 1: they they were able to train her and mold her
18:59
Speaker 1: to what they needed her to be. But even after that,
19:03
Speaker 1: like we're not seeing her, you know, jump off of
19:06
Speaker 1: a tensory building and surviving. We're not seeing her as
19:09
Speaker 1: a martial arts expert. She's just a tool. Like she
19:14
Speaker 1: she's there. She can walk up, blow people away in
19:17
Speaker 1: a restaurant and then escape through the window. Or she
19:20
Speaker 1: can you know, like she knows how to handle a rifle,
19:22
Speaker 1: and so she does that. But at the same time,
19:25
Speaker 1: while that is interesting, Darren, like you said, there's no
19:28
Speaker 1: agency there, so why are we following this person?
19:32
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that it's it's a fault of the script.
19:37
Speaker 2: I don't think it's necessarily that it like it's a
19:40
Speaker 2: like a male female thing so much. I get what
19:43
Speaker 2: you're saying with that, but I think that the script itself,
19:45
Speaker 2: like I could easily see looking at it, you know,
19:48
Speaker 2: with these criticisms and saying, well, giving her another person
19:52
Speaker 2: who was in the program and like spend time with
19:54
Speaker 2: the two of them and seeing how she progressed while
19:57
Speaker 2: the other person didn't, or they both progressed in the
20:00
Speaker 2: same way, and then she had to kill him at
20:02
Speaker 2: the end as her final test. I know that's a trope,
20:04
Speaker 2: and I'm not saying that's what they should have done.
20:06
Speaker 2: I'm saying that's the sort of thing that I think
20:09
Speaker 2: gives her more of a more of an arc, right,
20:13
Speaker 2: because her training happens in these little stutter steps, and
20:17
Speaker 2: even the point when she decides that she's going to
20:19
Speaker 2: stick with the program, there's no conflict apparent. He simply
20:23
Speaker 2: walks in and he's like, well, if you don't pick
20:24
Speaker 2: it up dead in two weeks, and then she walks up,
20:26
Speaker 2: puts on her makeup, and Yay, we did it fine.
20:29
Speaker 2: It's like I didn't see a struggle to get to
20:31
Speaker 2: that point of her sitting in front of the mirror,
20:34
Speaker 2: Like that's the moment where it's to see her crying,
20:36
Speaker 2: to see her saying I'm giving up this sense of
20:39
Speaker 2: identity now simply to survive. Like that's the scene that
20:43
Speaker 2: doesn't play for me.
20:45
Speaker 4: And for me, the best aspect of her character was
20:51
Speaker 4: it's not the best part well, the fact that she
20:55
Speaker 4: was unquestionably like the trigger, meaning as soon as she
20:59
Speaker 4: was given like, hey, there's a gun over here, you
21:01
Speaker 4: need to shoot this person right now, she unquestioningly just
21:05
Speaker 4: did it. Like so that was interesting as so far
21:09
Speaker 4: as Okay, she's responding immediately, the training is kicking in
21:13
Speaker 4: all of that, but because it's not surrounded by her agency,
21:18
Speaker 4: as soon as that moment passes, she reverts back to
21:23
Speaker 4: just you know, the off switch of just oh, I'm
21:26
Speaker 4: back in I'm back in my life and I don't.
21:28
Speaker 3: Know what did.
21:29
Speaker 4: I almost as if it would almost be better if
21:31
Speaker 4: it was literally programming where she had no memory of
21:34
Speaker 4: it and it literally took her over. But it doesn't
21:37
Speaker 4: go far enough. And I had hoped that, you know,
21:40
Speaker 4: when he's like, okay, now you have a mission. You
21:43
Speaker 4: have six months, I'm like, great, we're in charge. But
21:47
Speaker 4: she's not even in that. It's still a manipulation to
21:51
Speaker 4: get in the position to become the trigger and the
21:54
Speaker 4: third time, same thing, every single time. She's not, you know,
22:00
Speaker 4: in power. I don't know we've stated this already, but yeah,
22:03
Speaker 4: without you know, you can be the most cold killing
22:07
Speaker 4: people without thought, assassine, but if you're not the one
22:10
Speaker 4: making the call, then it falls flat.
22:14
Speaker 3: You know.
22:14
Speaker 2: I'll give a little bit of a break in that
22:16
Speaker 2: one scene having to do with the when Victor shows
22:19
Speaker 2: up because she's trying to call the shots and she's
22:23
Speaker 2: not allowed. I agree, that's you know, that's a ceiling,
22:27
Speaker 2: and it would have been nice to see her in
22:29
Speaker 2: that scene to then have conflict with Victor to the point.
22:34
Speaker 3: Where they get in the shootout.
22:36
Speaker 2: I think the mistake is that she basically pairs up
22:39
Speaker 2: with Victor afterward to complete the mission, and it's like,
22:42
Speaker 2: no the Even though again it's another trope, it makes
22:46
Speaker 2: more sense and gives the character more to do and
22:50
Speaker 2: develop by having Herbie the one that kills Victor right
22:54
Speaker 2: and then decide not to complete the mission because she's
22:56
Speaker 2: had enough of this crap. And then she's on the
22:59
Speaker 2: run and evil father figure is coming after her and
23:03
Speaker 2: the Yeah Bob is coming after her and her love.
23:10
Speaker 4: Or or reverse where Victor the Cleaner is all like,
23:14
Speaker 4: you're done. I'm here to erase this mess, and she's like, no,
23:17
Speaker 4: we're not, and steps up and then completes the mission
23:21
Speaker 4: in her way. But these are all pieces of the puzzle.
23:25
Speaker 4: It just is not how it came together unfortunately well.
23:29
Speaker 2: Which is why it sort of gives near dark vibes
23:32
Speaker 2: with bigelow right where it's if you look at near dark,
23:36
Speaker 2: you can say you could you could go progress through
23:39
Speaker 2: and be like, okay, I can kind of see where
23:41
Speaker 2: she's pointed from that point forward. There's some of that
23:44
Speaker 2: visual sensibility there. There's some stuff going on here that's interesting.
23:49
Speaker 2: I want to pay attention to this person, but it's
23:51
Speaker 2: not necessarily a film I want to revisit because like,
23:55
Speaker 2: I could see the pieces and it's pointed in the
23:57
Speaker 2: right direction, but it's not there. So again, it's that
24:01
Speaker 2: whole thing that makes me go back, and I'm like
24:03
Speaker 2: really struggling with why this got so much positive press,
24:08
Speaker 2: like Ciskel and Ebert loved it, and Janet Maslin the
24:10
Speaker 2: New York Times used all of these words I don't
24:12
Speaker 2: know what they mean to talk about how much she
24:14
Speaker 2: loved it and everything like that, and I'm kind of
24:16
Speaker 2: watching this and I'm like, oh okay, Like, like I
24:20
Speaker 2: was around in nineteen ninety, I was watching lots of stuff.
24:23
Speaker 2: I think it's entirely possible that because we were at
24:26
Speaker 2: the height of the Schwarzenegger stallone type of movie. Bruce
24:32
Speaker 2: Willis had entered the conversation by that point. I think
24:35
Speaker 2: it was such a masculine sort of thing going on
24:38
Speaker 2: in action films at that time. I think a lot
24:40
Speaker 2: of the positive reaction has to do with simply the
24:42
Speaker 2: fact that it was this was just different period, female protagonists, intrigue,
24:48
Speaker 2: punk rockers, modern stuff, breaking the rules with visual language for.
24:53
Speaker 3: The genre, that sort of thing.
24:55
Speaker 2: I really think this is just one of those ones
24:57
Speaker 2: that's just a benefit of the fact that it was
24:59
Speaker 2: a palette cl lens that it's like counterprogram like movies
25:02
Speaker 2: that got that hit it big when they counterprogrammed against
25:05
Speaker 2: like a Marvel movie or something like that, where it's
25:07
Speaker 2: like by the time we got to that point where
25:08
Speaker 2: like I'm ready for something different.
25:10
Speaker 3: Oh hey, look that's different. I really like that.
25:12
Speaker 4: Cool.
25:12
Speaker 3: Let's see if we can get more of it.
25:14
Speaker 1: Well, I think you were mentioning earlier, like a couple
25:17
Speaker 1: like two or three times you said, hey, I know
25:19
Speaker 1: it's a trope, but it probably would have worked better
25:21
Speaker 1: if you did X y Z. I think this is
25:24
Speaker 1: one of those times when because it didn't go with
25:28
Speaker 1: the trope, and that it didn't go with X y Z,
25:31
Speaker 1: it went with something different, it made more of an impact.
25:35
Speaker 1: It would it have been a stronger story if it
25:37
Speaker 1: did some of the things that you recommended, or at
25:40
Speaker 1: least did a left instead of a right. Yeah, I
25:42
Speaker 1: think so. But with the time that it came out,
25:45
Speaker 1: I think this is one of those you know, this
25:47
Speaker 1: came out thirty over thirty five years ago, you know,
25:51
Speaker 1: like this, when the time it came out, I think
25:54
Speaker 1: we got to look at it through that lens in
25:56
Speaker 1: nineteen ninety instead of twenty twenty five, and it's that
26:00
Speaker 1: that is that is the case, like this, this made
26:03
Speaker 1: waves for that reason for being different, for not always
26:07
Speaker 1: going towards the trope. Now, we talked about Bob, and
26:10
Speaker 1: we need to talk about Chicki Carryo. I freaking love
26:15
Speaker 1: him so very much. I feel like, if you're any
26:18
Speaker 1: movie that you have, if you had Chicki Carrio into it,
26:22
Speaker 1: it's gonna be a better movie because of him. Now,
26:24
Speaker 1: Darren what did you think about his performance was there?
26:27
Speaker 1: Was he too much of a blank slate or was
26:29
Speaker 1: he Was he cool enough?
26:32
Speaker 4: I wanted to for sure talk about his intro when
26:36
Speaker 4: he comes in to that white room. He is like
26:41
Speaker 4: a void. The color match between his shoes and his
26:45
Speaker 4: pants and his suit. It is like a single shade
26:50
Speaker 4: of black and he's just emanating out of that. I love.
26:54
Speaker 4: I like. I rewound to watch it again because it
26:57
Speaker 4: was so on point how it was introduced, seeing this character,
27:01
Speaker 4: you know, all black, little bit of white, little teeny bit,
27:04
Speaker 4: you know, peeking through. But it was so imposing of
27:09
Speaker 4: this guy. He hasn't even said anything yet. You're just like, oh,
27:12
Speaker 4: this is the this is the guy who calls the shots.
27:14
Speaker 4: Like I know so much about him just on how
27:18
Speaker 4: he was introduced, and I got to applaud that. But yeah,
27:22
Speaker 4: all of the you know a little bit of the
27:23
Speaker 4: cat and mouse, the pulling the strings, but not you know,
27:27
Speaker 4: he's not a hands off boss. He's not a I'm
27:30
Speaker 4: gonna call you from over here. I mean he does,
27:33
Speaker 4: but he's also going to show up at your house
27:35
Speaker 4: and and be like, here's some flowers, and I'm uncle
27:37
Speaker 4: Bob and I think Bob is just a hilarious name
27:40
Speaker 4: to be for your character if you're in this kind
27:43
Speaker 4: of role. But yeah, I think you know, as we've
27:46
Speaker 4: mentioned in some movies, if you stick the landing, it
27:49
Speaker 4: absolves a lot of sins. I think it's also fair
27:53
Speaker 4: to say if you nail the intro, you can almost
27:56
Speaker 4: get away with anything, because it's so strong that even
28:01
Speaker 4: by the end where he's kind of like, oh, I
28:03
Speaker 4: guess she's out now, I'm like, okay, sure, I guess
28:06
Speaker 4: that's your call to make. But you're Bob, and I've
28:11
Speaker 4: already been hooked, so sure, let's go with that. That
28:14
Speaker 4: was my impression of signor Bob.
28:18
Speaker 3: You know, I think that.
28:20
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, yeah, he's he's.
28:22
Speaker 3: A great actor.
28:23
Speaker 2: And the thing is, what while you were talking, Darren, like,
28:26
Speaker 2: I just was like, you know, let's pick a pull
28:28
Speaker 2: up his selected filmography, and it's like the guy was
28:31
Speaker 2: everywhere for so long. I'm like, oh, yeah, he wasn't that.
28:33
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, it wasn't that. Oh yeah, it wasn't that too.
28:36
Speaker 2: And Tristen, to your point, he comes on screen and
28:38
Speaker 2: you're like, oh, I'm in good hands. Okay, I know
28:41
Speaker 2: this is going to be good but Darren, to back
28:43
Speaker 2: you up, I think what it is is that he
28:46
Speaker 2: he's a tremendous actor, and I think that he's given
28:50
Speaker 2: very little to do or say of real substance in
28:54
Speaker 2: the film. But being a tremendous actor, he's able to,
28:58
Speaker 2: you know, use even the tiny bit of clay to
29:01
Speaker 2: make a beautiful sculpture. And I think that he is
29:04
Speaker 2: that perfect blend of menace to the point where my
29:08
Speaker 2: favorite scene with him is when he's inventing the story
29:11
Speaker 2: of her as a child, and he's able to get
29:14
Speaker 2: that right dead eye look where you can tell he's
29:17
Speaker 2: talking to her saying, I control every aspect. I'm writing
29:21
Speaker 2: your life right now. And he doesn't do it with menace.
29:24
Speaker 2: He doesn't glare at her, he doesn't snarl or anything
29:27
Speaker 2: like that. He's just charmingly letting her know I am
29:31
Speaker 2: completely in command right now. Don't think for a second
29:35
Speaker 2: that you can do anything against me.
29:38
Speaker 1: It also blew my mind that Nikito was surprised she
29:43
Speaker 1: had to kill someone on vacation. I'm like, dude, do
29:47
Speaker 1: you remember who gave you the tickets?
29:50
Speaker 3: Right?
29:50
Speaker 1: Do you think he did that out of the goodness
29:52
Speaker 1: of his heart?
29:53
Speaker 3: Right?
29:54
Speaker 1: Just so we could get the frequent flyer miles. No.
29:58
Speaker 2: Well, I mean, I gotta give credit to the advanced
30:01
Speaker 2: team because they really made the most. Those European hotel
30:04
Speaker 2: rooms are very tiny, and they they hit a lot
30:06
Speaker 2: of equipment and a lot of very creative places in
30:09
Speaker 2: that hotel. So hats off to them. That is just
30:11
Speaker 2: that's organizational efficiency that I think we need to call
30:14
Speaker 2: out from time to time.
30:16
Speaker 1: It was really well, all those old bathrooms had a
30:18
Speaker 1: lot of nook and crannies for those yeah, traveled to Europe.
30:21
Speaker 1: It's true, It's true.
30:23
Speaker 3: Yeah.
30:23
Speaker 1: Now I want to talk about the cinematography a little bit.
30:25
Speaker 1: So this was by Tierra Arbergast, and I feel like
30:29
Speaker 1: this is very it's a very tight visual language, Like
30:34
Speaker 1: you don't get a lot of wide angles, don't. You
30:37
Speaker 1: don't get a lot of vistas or even establishing shots,
30:42
Speaker 1: and it's a lot of clean lines and color palate,
30:46
Speaker 1: cool color palettes, and you pretty much only get handheld
30:50
Speaker 1: during incredibly active violent scenes. John, what did you think
30:56
Speaker 1: of the cinematography overall? Did it leave an impression or
30:59
Speaker 1: was just kind of.
31:00
Speaker 2: Oh it definitely, it definitely left an impression because it
31:04
Speaker 2: it was a you know, I I don't have the
31:08
Speaker 2: the you know, the the book language to describe it,
31:12
Speaker 2: but there was a very maximalized way that the camera
31:17
Speaker 2: was used, where even when I was in a tight space,
31:19
Speaker 2: I could tell that it was the camera placement in
31:22
Speaker 2: the way the lens was made the most. I saw
31:26
Speaker 2: so much of that space, even though I knew I
31:28
Speaker 2: was in a very tight little shop in the beginning.
31:31
Speaker 2: It was a very tight shot, but I never felt
31:33
Speaker 2: like I was cramped, And I think that's that speaks
31:36
Speaker 2: to the skill of the DP to go in and
31:38
Speaker 2: be like, oh, it's a.
31:40
Speaker 3: Tiny courtroom, don't worry.
31:41
Speaker 2: Our first shot is going to make it feel like
31:43
Speaker 2: it's this big, expansive thing, and then when you reset
31:46
Speaker 2: and everybody's in there, you get that new sense of like, oh, okay,
31:50
Speaker 2: it was just telling me that this is a very
31:51
Speaker 2: overwhelming place to be, but it's actually a small room.
31:55
Speaker 2: And I think that is a tribute to him. I actually,
31:58
Speaker 2: I you know, because I know that he works with
32:00
Speaker 2: the song through the nineties.
32:02
Speaker 1: So I think the entire decade.
32:04
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think their story will be one of those
32:07
Speaker 2: director and director of photography stories that where they just
32:11
Speaker 2: parallel each other, you know, much the same way certain
32:14
Speaker 2: directors can use the same cinematographer or same editors each
32:17
Speaker 2: time because they those people know how to talk to
32:20
Speaker 2: each other and go through the thing that blows my mind.
32:24
Speaker 3: That is always a lot of fun.
32:25
Speaker 2: Is we're talking about Checki Carrio and we're talking about
32:28
Speaker 2: Terry albergast here and they are both involved in nineteen
32:32
Speaker 2: ninety nine's Wing Command.
32:33
Speaker 4: I was just that's me at my desk, what I
32:37
Speaker 4: was reacting to.
32:38
Speaker 2: I really I never watched it because there was no
32:42
Speaker 2: chance in hell I was going to. I really kind
32:44
Speaker 2: of have to see it now because oh okay, I'm
32:47
Speaker 2: on board guilty pleasure.
32:48
Speaker 4: It is not a good movie. Is experience not good?
32:53
Speaker 3: But I kind of have to see it now, I
32:55
Speaker 3: really do. I watched I.
32:58
Speaker 4: And yeah, but he yeah, he is great in that.
33:03
Speaker 4: You know, he shows up again in The Patriot. I
33:07
Speaker 4: remember him there. Yeah, you know we're going to see
33:09
Speaker 4: him later in Joan of Arc.
33:11
Speaker 3: He's in. The more I.
33:12
Speaker 4: See him everywhere, the more I'm like, oh, yeah, he's
33:15
Speaker 4: in the Core. Okay, he's in the core. He's everywhere movie.
33:19
Speaker 4: But I don't care what people say. I love that movie.
33:21
Speaker 4: Oh it's a trash movie, but it's so fun.
33:23
Speaker 2: But in terms of the photography, like I would actually
33:26
Speaker 2: really be interested to just to give a lot of a,
33:30
Speaker 2: you know, more tests to see how much influence Arbagas
33:33
Speaker 2: had on Bison see Bison, because I see that he
33:37
Speaker 2: worked with Brian de Palma, and I'm like, okay to
33:40
Speaker 2: Palma has a definite style and if Arbagas is able
33:43
Speaker 2: to like shift it, then I know that Arbagast had
33:46
Speaker 2: a big seat at Bison's table to determine visual language.
33:49
Speaker 2: Now that doesn't take anything away from Bassan. He found
33:52
Speaker 2: a guy that gave him what he wanted sort of thing.
33:53
Speaker 2: But now I really want to see some other works
33:56
Speaker 2: Wing Commander included to see, you know, how much of
33:59
Speaker 2: a how much of you.
34:00
Speaker 4: Should see it? John, you will have fun again.
34:03
Speaker 1: I'm going to go into Hi.
34:07
Speaker 4: Yeah.
34:08
Speaker 1: But John, you made a really interesting point about the
34:12
Speaker 1: cinematography that I want to kind of touch on a
34:14
Speaker 1: little bit, where you said that he did a really
34:17
Speaker 1: good job of showcasing this space and how you never
34:21
Speaker 1: felt cramped. Well, one of the reasons why I think
34:25
Speaker 1: that is is that they were working off of a
34:27
Speaker 1: shoe string budget and Bisson had everything laid out exactly
34:31
Speaker 1: how he wanted it with storyboards, and he worked with
34:35
Speaker 1: Arbagast on how they were going to shoot it, how
34:37
Speaker 1: they were going to do it, what rooms they were
34:39
Speaker 1: going to do it in, and because of the budget,
34:42
Speaker 1: they were just like, we have this room and this
34:43
Speaker 1: is the only room we got, Like we can't do
34:45
Speaker 1: too much traveling throughout a building. This is the room.
34:49
Speaker 1: And so Oarburgas lit the entire space as opposed to
34:54
Speaker 1: shot for shot, because if he lit the entire space
34:58
Speaker 1: right off the bat, he can pick up the camera
35:00
Speaker 1: and the sticks move it anywhere. And he knew that
35:03
Speaker 1: he was going to get a lit shot and just
35:06
Speaker 1: have a few minor adjustments and that would save time
35:08
Speaker 1: and money. So I think that efficiency translates into better geometry.
35:14
Speaker 3: That's fair.
35:15
Speaker 4: I agree you can tell it's a shoestring movie. It
35:19
Speaker 4: looks like it, but it is still shot really well
35:23
Speaker 4: for what that budget is, and a lot is implied
35:28
Speaker 4: and you're right thinking about it now, I'm like, oh, yeah,
35:31
Speaker 4: we were in that building. We only were in one room,
35:35
Speaker 4: but I never felt like we only spent time in
35:37
Speaker 4: one room.
35:39
Speaker 1: It's amazing now, Darren. This was edited by Olivier MOUFOI,
35:44
Speaker 1: And I want to know, did this editing, you know,
35:48
Speaker 1: insist upon itself. Did it make itself known? Because so
35:51
Speaker 1: many action films do that where it's like fast cutting
35:55
Speaker 1: and it's choppy, it's all over the place, and he
35:57
Speaker 1: try to disguise a lot of stuff that's going on.
36:00
Speaker 1: What did you think about the editing of this movie
36:03
Speaker 1: from a micro level all the way up to a
36:05
Speaker 1: macro level.
36:06
Speaker 4: I mean the first time I think of the editing,
36:09
Speaker 4: because it's hard to you have to separate, like there's
36:12
Speaker 4: shot composition and there's editing, Like they you know, they're
36:16
Speaker 4: doing different things, and just like you can think of
36:19
Speaker 4: cinematography and you can think of production design, and they're
36:22
Speaker 4: both really pushing into the frame, but they are very
36:25
Speaker 4: different disciplines. So I think of when she is montaging
36:30
Speaker 4: her training and we're feeling like we're in again one room,
36:35
Speaker 4: one warehouse, and we feel like this is a hive
36:38
Speaker 4: for this organization. This organization feels like it's been there
36:42
Speaker 4: forever and then it's gone tomorrow. But it's you know,
36:45
Speaker 4: so that editing, you know, I really liked that. I
36:48
Speaker 4: enjoyed Probably my favorite, you know, hit is the you know,
36:53
Speaker 4: out the window, because we're jumping back and forth of
36:58
Speaker 4: what she sees, you know, her fiance on the other
37:01
Speaker 4: side of the door, you know, hearing through the radio,
37:06
Speaker 4: and it's all mixing perfectly to keep the tension but
37:10
Speaker 4: not lose your pace or where you are in the sequence.
37:14
Speaker 4: And then boom, boom, she's pulled the trigger and we're done,
37:16
Speaker 4: and now we're moving on to getting you know, things
37:19
Speaker 4: back into the hiding spots or actually no, I'm like,
37:23
Speaker 4: I don't know where she put the gun. It's been
37:26
Speaker 4: like half a second, and obviously you know, in the bathtub.
37:29
Speaker 4: So yeah, the editing on this overall, I think worked
37:34
Speaker 4: really well. I'm unfortunately he's not coming up under Wikipedia
37:38
Speaker 4: because I was trying to see if he continued on
37:41
Speaker 4: with the son. So I think one of the things
37:42
Speaker 4: we're noticing with the song is he kind of found
37:45
Speaker 4: his crew and I carried them through many other movies,
37:51
Speaker 4: and I think that's going to really impact the next
37:53
Speaker 4: couple of weeks.
37:54
Speaker 2: I don't think that really happened here with the editor.
37:58
Speaker 2: I don't so I think that there are scenes here
38:02
Speaker 2: that I think are assembled really well. But I think
38:05
Speaker 2: some of this is a real jumble. I think there
38:08
Speaker 2: are certain moments where it jumps and it's like wait
38:11
Speaker 2: what wait I went here to there?
38:14
Speaker 1: Yeah.
38:15
Speaker 3: I think the overall.
38:18
Speaker 2: Impression I have is that it's a mess, and I
38:20
Speaker 2: think that the glue that holds it together is it's
38:22
Speaker 2: shot really well and it's an interesting premise and it's
38:26
Speaker 2: got great style, but I don't think that it holds
38:29
Speaker 2: together very well as a piece from beginning to finish this.
38:35
Speaker 1: To me, that doesn't feel like Mufrost's issue. That feels
38:39
Speaker 1: like a song issue, like when you, when you take
38:42
Speaker 1: a look at like when you when you, Like he
38:45
Speaker 1: wrote this and developed this with a lot of things
38:48
Speaker 1: in mind, like he he knew exactly how he wanted
38:52
Speaker 1: to show it, how he wanted to do it, because
38:54
Speaker 1: he wanted to limit the amount of studio interference as possible.
39:00
Speaker 1: And I think he was living with on Paiou. I
39:04
Speaker 1: think I think they were partners at the time. They
39:07
Speaker 1: that they were together and so they wrote yes they were.
39:09
Speaker 3: Yeah.
39:09
Speaker 1: He wrote the lead with her in mind, And I
39:13
Speaker 1: think the jumps were very much due to the script
39:16
Speaker 1: and not because Maffra was like, Hey, do you know
39:19
Speaker 1: what would be cool if we did have anything in between.
39:22
Speaker 2: Well, yes, I think maybe I overstated. Then what I
39:26
Speaker 2: mean is even within within the film as a whole,
39:29
Speaker 2: it's a it's a bit jumbled. I would go to,
39:33
Speaker 2: for instance, there was one time where she like she
39:36
Speaker 2: walked into her room and things, and it's still Bisan's fault.
39:40
Speaker 2: I think you're right because he storyboarded everything. To the
39:43
Speaker 2: point I think Miffron is probably just the he got.
39:47
Speaker 2: He has the job, and it's not he's not given
39:50
Speaker 2: any room to do anything. It's this is my storyboard.
39:54
Speaker 2: I need somebody just to assemble this for me, please.
39:56
Speaker 2: I think that's probably what happened, and so I'm not
39:59
Speaker 2: trashing the guy like it's it's one of those things
40:02
Speaker 2: though where it's like I think he's in a no
40:03
Speaker 2: win scenario where it's like he did what he was
40:06
Speaker 2: supposed to do, but he wasn't given the opportunity.
40:09
Speaker 3: To do what.
40:10
Speaker 1: But you're not wrong, though, you're not wrong from an
40:13
Speaker 1: editing standpoint. On a macro level, whether it's the editor's fault,
40:17
Speaker 1: the producer's fault, the director's fault, it doesn't matter. It's there,
40:22
Speaker 1: and I think you're right, like it's it's there's so
40:24
Speaker 1: many the jumps are weird. And it's not because you know,
40:29
Speaker 1: I don't like big time jumps at all. It's just
40:33
Speaker 1: it's got to make sense because you're cutting out some
40:36
Speaker 1: of the meat here, you're cutting out some really interesting stuff. Now, Darren,
40:39
Speaker 1: you mentioned it before about her training. You know, we
40:43
Speaker 1: get so little of her training. We're just like, oh,
40:45
Speaker 1: this is how a computer works in a mouse, and
40:48
Speaker 1: this is what taekwondo is and and there you go.
40:52
Speaker 1: You're an agent. Now that's pretty cool.
40:55
Speaker 4: It is very montage, and I think you're right. The
40:59
Speaker 4: time jumps is kind of a weak point because like
41:03
Speaker 4: he's like, oh, it's your birthday and then he's like,
41:05
Speaker 4: oh it's your birthday again. Oh you're at this age.
41:06
Speaker 4: And I was like, there wasn't enough. There wasn't enough
41:09
Speaker 4: setup to understand what was going on. Like has years passed?
41:15
Speaker 4: I don't know? Is he just mind Dan playing with
41:19
Speaker 4: her and it hasn't act.
41:22
Speaker 1: I mean, she had a horrible wig. She had a
41:24
Speaker 1: horrible wig on and then another horrible wig on top
41:28
Speaker 1: of that. Couldn't you tell?
41:31
Speaker 2: Yeah, how many wigs can one have? That's the big question,
41:35
Speaker 2: I think. But you know, I do I do want
41:39
Speaker 2: to throw out there that I think that somebody who
41:42
Speaker 2: is a treat in this, even though the character is
41:45
Speaker 2: not written particularly well, is I really enjoy anytime Jean
41:51
Speaker 2: Renaud walks on screen.
41:53
Speaker 3: I love the guy.
41:54
Speaker 2: I like you you say, like when I remember when
41:57
Speaker 2: the first Mission Impossible was coming out, it was like
41:59
Speaker 2: and shaw, It's like, oh, on board cool.
42:02
Speaker 3: He has a great.
42:03
Speaker 2: Screen presence, and I think that it's it's frustrating to
42:08
Speaker 2: me to see him in the film because I'm like, ah,
42:12
Speaker 2: if he had just known what to do with him better.
42:15
Speaker 2: And that's why I'm excited to revisit leon Is because
42:18
Speaker 2: I'm like, oh, I know what's in this guy's future.
42:21
Speaker 1: But when he walked on the way he was dressed,
42:24
Speaker 1: the way that he stood there, I'm like, wait, is
42:27
Speaker 1: this the Leon universe? What is this?
42:30
Speaker 3: Is this?
42:31
Speaker 1: Is he the same character? But then when she called
42:33
Speaker 1: him Victor, I was like, oh, okay, okay.
42:36
Speaker 2: Well, But the thing is I held on even past
42:39
Speaker 2: that moment because I was like, well, he kind of
42:40
Speaker 2: changed his name. And then, of course the movie spoilers
42:44
Speaker 2: for a thirty five year old film, the movie you
42:47
Speaker 2: know what his character dies, and I'm like, oh, okay,
42:50
Speaker 2: well all right, that seals that one up, unless you know,
42:53
Speaker 2: you want to really get wild with head Cannon and
42:55
Speaker 2: it's like, well the professional is him and limbo and
42:57
Speaker 2: he's trying to work his soul through.
43:00
Speaker 1: So as we're rounding third, I want to ask both
43:03
Speaker 1: of you the question, what do you think the theme
43:06
Speaker 1: of this movie was? You know, is it is it
43:08
Speaker 1: about identity? You know, something that's either regulated versus imposed.
43:12
Speaker 1: Do you feel like it's you know, love is an illusion?
43:16
Speaker 1: Like freedom is is it the system you know makes
43:19
Speaker 1: you do what it wants it to do? What do
43:22
Speaker 1: you what do you think? Like? What are you walking
43:23
Speaker 1: away from with this?
43:25
Speaker 2: Honestly I walked away with this with the sense that
43:29
Speaker 2: this was somebody.
43:30
Speaker 3: Who the thing is.
43:32
Speaker 2: I hopefully people have listened to me drone on and
43:35
Speaker 2: on enough through the years to understand that I mean
43:37
Speaker 2: this as a compliment. But I get the same energy
43:40
Speaker 2: that I get from like an exploitation movie, like say
43:43
Speaker 2: I'm watching like Roadhouse in the eighties or something like that,
43:46
Speaker 2: where it's just this feel of like everybody on sets
43:48
Speaker 2: just excited to do it. And so you ask me, well,
43:51
Speaker 2: what's the theme of it? I'm like, I don't know.
43:53
Speaker 2: I like, I say, there is what it is? Well,
43:58
Speaker 2: I mean that's obviously that's that's obviously Roadhouse is about.
44:01
Speaker 2: But like it's it's literally with this, it's like, oh,
44:03
Speaker 2: is it femininity?
44:04
Speaker 3: Is it societal? No?
44:05
Speaker 2: I think it's just actually an interesting premise about some
44:09
Speaker 2: hopefully interesting characters that a director put together to do.
44:12
Speaker 2: I don't think there was anything any deeper than that
44:15
Speaker 2: at play here. Maybe I'm way off base. Maybe Lukeason's
44:18
Speaker 2: about to kick in the door behind me and.
44:20
Speaker 3: Be like, oh, how can you say that? Right?
44:22
Speaker 2: I don't know, but I didn't walk away really with
44:24
Speaker 2: anything too deep from this.
44:26
Speaker 1: Darren, do you agree with that?
44:28
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's interesting because, like we said, you feel the
44:33
Speaker 4: shoe string, and I'm not saying that in a super
44:35
Speaker 4: negative way, just it's there. It's very obvious with the budget,
44:39
Speaker 4: so it has a kind of student film ish vibe
44:44
Speaker 4: with like a chunk of money, you know, not enough
44:47
Speaker 4: to you know, drive a car around Paris good, but
44:51
Speaker 4: you know enough to shoot what this was. And so
44:56
Speaker 4: it played big within a small stage and I think
44:59
Speaker 4: that works. But yeah, I don't know. I think later
45:04
Speaker 4: Bissan's going to be getting into the you know, the
45:07
Speaker 4: meanings and the morals and the and the pieces. I
45:10
Speaker 4: don't really see it as much here. I think this
45:13
Speaker 4: was more of a I have. I feel like he
45:15
Speaker 4: had an idea, he had a story he had to tell,
45:19
Speaker 4: had to get out, and he does in this movie.
45:23
Speaker 4: But maybe later we're going to add some layers. And
45:25
Speaker 4: there could be layers, there could be subtle meaning and stuff.
45:28
Speaker 4: But it it didn't come.
45:29
Speaker 1: Across to me, Darren. I'm not going to make you
45:32
Speaker 1: go first this time. I'm going to give you the mercy.
45:35
Speaker 1: Oh come on, even though I'm hosting no, no, everybody
45:38
Speaker 1: needs a reprieve. Okay, all right, what a rep man.
45:43
Speaker 4: I'm gonna makes first by your French at the beginning tryst.
45:47
Speaker 4: And I just need to say that off the.
45:49
Speaker 1: Off the top, I mean, I mean, most of it
45:51
Speaker 1: is really the confidence in the pronunciation more than the
45:55
Speaker 1: pronunciation itself.
45:56
Speaker 3: So John, I want to you know, I can't wait
45:58
Speaker 3: to run it back through a filter and see.
46:02
Speaker 1: What are you give in this film? How many titanium
46:04
Speaker 1: bullets are you giving this film? It's tough because I
46:09
Speaker 1: think it's visually interesting. I think that it's got a
46:13
Speaker 1: lot of you know, great energy behind it. It's obviously,
46:18
Speaker 1: you know the excitement of Okay, we're going to make
46:21
Speaker 1: this movie. This is our shot, and everything's thrown in
46:23
Speaker 1: there and they're doing everything they can, and it's you know,
46:26
Speaker 1: all of this stuff going on. But man, the script
46:29
Speaker 1: and the sort of lack of any emotional connection, maybe
46:32
Speaker 1: the lack of emotional connections because I don't speak French
46:35
Speaker 1: and the subtitles sucked or something like that. But I'm
46:38
Speaker 1: actually going to come in at this pretty hard and
46:41
Speaker 1: give it a two. And the only reason it doesn't
46:43
Speaker 1: go any lower is because of all the technical stuff
46:46
Speaker 1: that I thought was really good about it and the
46:48
Speaker 1: direction it's pointing. But I highly doubt that I'll ever
46:51
Speaker 1: revisit Leafem Nikita, unless it's as a remake with Bridget Fonda,
46:54
Speaker 1: in which case I'm very intrigued to try that out now. So, Darin,
46:58
Speaker 1: how many awkward birthdays are you giving this?
47:04
Speaker 4: You know, through its faults and you know, the score,
47:09
Speaker 4: the editing, the agency, I still I'm giving this a
47:14
Speaker 4: three because I could see this movie as something This
47:19
Speaker 4: is totally a film that you would show film students
47:22
Speaker 4: as a teaching tool. It is very well put together
47:26
Speaker 4: in Look look at this, Look what worked, looked? What didn't?
47:30
Speaker 3: Look?
47:30
Speaker 4: How they did it?
47:31
Speaker 3: Like that?
47:32
Speaker 4: You know, that's giving it at least a partial credit
47:35
Speaker 4: right there. And it's an interesting, engaging idea, you know,
47:39
Speaker 4: it gets something of that for originality, you know. And
47:43
Speaker 4: I could also, I think ticked it up enough for
47:47
Speaker 4: me for a three was I would probably watch this
47:49
Speaker 4: again to reabsorb. I want to look at the shots
47:53
Speaker 4: again now that I've seen it all the way through.
47:56
Speaker 4: I think a second viewing would be a little bit
47:59
Speaker 4: more enjoyable. So I'm going to give it three. Three
48:02
Speaker 4: white rooms that are identical but not the same. Darren
48:06
Speaker 4: makes some good arguments. I'm gonna bump it up to
48:08
Speaker 4: two and a half. Two is a little too harsh,
48:10
Speaker 4: so I'm gonna go up to a two and.
48:11
Speaker 3: A twolf here.
48:12
Speaker 1: Two is harsh. Two is harsh, I think, but not
48:16
Speaker 1: far off. I'm with you, Darren. I'm giving it a three.
48:20
Speaker 1: I think I think this movie Lands is stylish, and
48:25
Speaker 1: when you look at it, it's more influential as a
48:28
Speaker 1: genre piece that works better as a blueprint for what
48:34
Speaker 1: comes next than what is a fully satisfying story. I
48:39
Speaker 1: think That's where I'm kind of coming from. Like the
48:41
Speaker 1: atmosphere is really really interesting and precise, and the premises
48:45
Speaker 1: is on point, and you feel like it it's so hard,
48:50
Speaker 1: like when you look at everything that comes afterwards, like
48:53
Speaker 1: the remake and the TV. You know, like just for
48:57
Speaker 1: like the decades of action we got, of of influence
49:00
Speaker 1: that we got because of this movie is pretty is
49:04
Speaker 1: pretty crazy, and it needs some credit for that. But
49:09
Speaker 1: at the same time, the emotional beats are incredibly uneven.
49:13
Speaker 1: Some of the character moments feel unearned and underdeveloped, and
49:17
Speaker 1: I feel like there's almost like a detachment from Bison's
49:22
Speaker 1: directing that keeps the movie at arm's length, so you
49:26
Speaker 1: don't really get to get that intimacy. It feels kind
49:29
Speaker 1: of like surface level intimacy to me. And you know,
49:33
Speaker 1: I think it's a very watchable movie and I think
49:35
Speaker 1: it's very interesting to watch, but it's just not quite
49:39
Speaker 1: as intricate as it could have been and not as
49:43
Speaker 1: good as the Legacy has told us. So I'm giving
49:46
Speaker 1: it three stars. I mean giving it generous three stars.
49:48
Speaker 1: I feel like I probably could have given it two
49:51
Speaker 1: and a half, but for the legacy, I'm bumping it
49:54
Speaker 1: up to three and I'm really looking forward to seeing
49:58
Speaker 1: the song develop over the next decade. And Darren, what
50:02
Speaker 1: are we doing next?
50:03
Speaker 4: We're jumping four years to return to Renault Leone, the
50:08
Speaker 4: professional from nineteen ninety four. Next on house Lights
50:12
Speaker 1: Join the Revolution, Join the Ned Party.