Latest / Relatables / EP 28 - BEING A MAN! W/LUKE BATEMAN

Transcript

EP 28 - BEING A MAN! W/LUKE BATEMAN · Relatables

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Coming up on relatables, ninety two percent of violence and
• 0:05
  Speaker 1: abuse against women come from like male violence, when ninety
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: two percent of it comes from a man that the
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: woman knows, either a partner or a family member or
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: someone in their in their close circle. So you know
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: when men talk about, you know, being like protectors, the
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: person that needs to be the person that your partner
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: needs to be protected from is you. Yeah, like, statistically
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: ninety two percent, So it's not even happening. You know,
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: we're not talking about women getting you know, assaulted by
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: a random man in the street. We're talking about women
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: getting bashed at home and abused at home by brother, father, partner,
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: et cetera.
• 0:53
  Speaker 2: Relatable relat Okay, listen to a podcast the other day
• 1:04
  Speaker 2: that you were on Luke and you said that you
• 1:08
  Speaker 2: ask your ten year old self and your eighty year
• 1:10
  Speaker 2: old self for advice. Yep, So I have a scenario
• 1:14
  Speaker 2: and I want to know what your ten year old
• 1:16
  Speaker 2: self and what your eight year old self would say
• 1:18
  Speaker 2: in this scenario. Pretty simple one. You've just been dumped,
• 1:23
  Speaker 2: came out of the blue, broken hearted. You know, you
• 1:27
  Speaker 2: can't think of what your next step is going to be.
• 1:29
  Speaker 2: What would your ten year old self give you advice,
• 1:31
  Speaker 2: and what would your aid?
• 1:32
  Speaker 1: Your old self give you a great question. I know
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: exactly what my eight year old self would say to me.
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: My eighty year old self would say that it's happened
• 1:38
  Speaker 1: for a reason. That he would say that rejection is protection.
• 1:44
  Speaker 2: Oh, what's good.
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: That's exactly rejection is protection. Rejection is protection up. No, no,
• 1:53
  Speaker 1: I can't trade mark. That's I think that's that's the
• 1:56
  Speaker 1: sort of saying I suppose. Ah, yeah, rejection of second
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: that's for me. A the old self would say to me,
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: you don't know why yet, but it's happened for a reason,
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: and that like that, Yeah, that's what meself saying. A
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: ten year old self, he would say to me, My
• 2:12
  Speaker 1: tenyurred telf would probably just cudd on me. I reckon
• 2:15
  Speaker 1: oh he just yea.
• 2:18
  Speaker 2: I was expecting like a fuck that anyway, she was
• 2:22
  Speaker 2: the one.
• 2:25
  Speaker 1: My ten year old self would just be like, come
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: over here and give us a cuddle and cry together.
• 2:29
  Speaker 3: And what's the reason for doing both dynamics of eighty
• 2:31
  Speaker 3: and ten.
• 2:32
  Speaker 1: I was so you want to make you want to
• 2:35
  Speaker 1: be the man that would make your ten year old
• 2:38
  Speaker 1: self proud. You want to be the kind of man
• 2:40
  Speaker 1: that your ten year old self would look up to.
• 2:42
  Speaker 1: There'd be a role model, a hero to you. And
• 2:44
  Speaker 1: you want to be the kind of person your eighty
• 2:47
  Speaker 1: old self will look back at and go I made
• 2:52
  Speaker 1: I lived to my values, and I did everything in
• 2:56
  Speaker 1: life that I wanted to do. I didn't let fear
• 2:58
  Speaker 1: control me, or I don't have I don't have any
• 3:01
  Speaker 1: large regrets.
• 3:03
  Speaker 2: I like that.
• 3:04
  Speaker 3: I love it talking about younger selves, Jake. There's one
• 3:08
  Speaker 3: thing I've taken from my youth and I know for
• 3:11
  Speaker 3: a fact that I'm still going to be doing this
• 3:15
  Speaker 3: when I'm eighty, is what's enjoying.
• 3:19
  Speaker 2: Here we go Crispy Creams. Looks like you may have
• 3:25
  Speaker 2: enjoyed one or two right now. I have here, take
• 3:27
  Speaker 2: take one. Thank you very much, very much, appreciate it.
• 3:31
  Speaker 2: Krispy Kremes. When I was a kid, I love them.
• 3:34
  Speaker 3: I love them still do. And I've always had the
• 3:37
  Speaker 3: motto because why not just because Yeah, I'm a.
• 3:42
  Speaker 2: Bit of a sucker for a cheeky little maybe a
• 3:44
  Speaker 2: road trip. Yes, maybe I'm on a road trip. And
• 3:48
  Speaker 2: then I'm going past and filling my cart with fuel,
• 3:51
  Speaker 2: you know, as you do on a road trip. And
• 3:53
  Speaker 2: I go in and I'm like, it's like have you
• 3:55
  Speaker 2: ever you know, like in shows when someone looks at
• 3:59
  Speaker 2: something and it's got the white lights behind it than
• 4:01
  Speaker 2: in the music. The background music's like ahh to go in.
• 4:05
  Speaker 2: You see Krispy Kreme stand three two one? Oh No,
• 4:11
  Speaker 2: I'm the same. So I feel when I walk in
• 4:13
  Speaker 2: and see airports, I think the same thing. Oh, Sydney
• 4:18
  Speaker 2: Airport having a standalone Krispy Green. What's one more? What's
• 4:25
  Speaker 2: one more? Good question?
• 4:29
  Speaker 3: I saw this and thought of you. Three two one,
• 4:36
  Speaker 3: go grab a Krispy Kreme. Today, The Relatables podcast is
• 4:39
  Speaker 3: hosted by myself, Audie Clark okay, mummy and my partner
• 4:42
  Speaker 3: in crime, mister Jake Craig ak Daddy, that's me.
• 4:47
  Speaker 2: Luke didn't know that we wanted him about that. Very
• 4:51
  Speaker 2: special guests. We have author so soon to be author
• 4:56
  Speaker 2: currently writing a book. Logger everybody here. He's not a farmer,
• 5:01
  Speaker 2: he's a logger and X n R L star anything else.
• 5:06
  Speaker 2: Which that was your first job when you grew up?
• 5:09
  Speaker 1: I used to pack. I used to pack shelves at
• 5:12
  Speaker 1: a fruit market, so we.
• 5:14
  Speaker 2: Can shelf packerbody.
• 5:22
  Speaker 3: Thanks all right, we wanted to start the episode with
• 5:25
  Speaker 3: you said your up and coming author, and we have
• 5:30
  Speaker 3: organically dabbled in that space as well, so we wanted
• 5:33
  Speaker 3: to pitch you our book idea.
• 5:36
  Speaker 2: Doubled is a strong so we have a book club.
• 5:40
  Speaker 3: And it came up organically that we could I'm not
• 5:44
  Speaker 3: going to say write a book, but write maybe like.
• 5:47
  Speaker 2: A solid ten chapters.
• 5:49
  Speaker 3: And we were just spitballing one time and we thought
• 5:51
  Speaker 3: we landed, and we thought we could come to the
• 5:53
  Speaker 3: pro and you tell us if it's actually a good idea.
• 5:57
  Speaker 1: Will give you the book.
• 6:00
  Speaker 2: The hardest thing is like, there's backstory, and I'll give
• 6:03
  Speaker 2: it to you so quickly. All of this has happened
• 6:06
  Speaker 2: on Patreon, unfortunately to people that are on Patreon, but
• 6:08
  Speaker 2: it's in the description if you want to go find it.
• 6:11
  Speaker 2: And we have all of our audience we call them
• 6:14
  Speaker 2: the baddies, and then very recently we've started deciding that
• 6:17
  Speaker 2: we want to make the United Nation of Baddies. We
• 6:20
  Speaker 2: want to buy an island. Yeah, so that's something to
• 6:24
  Speaker 2: keep in mind. And Oddie wants to name one of
• 6:26
  Speaker 2: his kids. He doesn't have any kids yet, but in
• 6:28
  Speaker 2: the future he wants the name is kids after the
• 6:30
  Speaker 2: botanical name for an Australian native plant. Okay, I found
• 6:34
  Speaker 2: a list of them and basically our you're going to
• 6:39
  Speaker 2: hear the names pola and callistomon. So just keep that
• 6:42
  Speaker 2: in mind. And that's all the bout story.
• 6:46
  Speaker 3: Okay, world setting, should we say, should we set it
• 6:49
  Speaker 3: with ourselves?
• 6:49
  Speaker 2: We're in the book? Yeah, okay, yeah, of course.
• 6:52
  Speaker 1: Well yeah, so what genre are we talking here? Okay?
• 6:55
  Speaker 1: Fantasy with you boys?
• 6:55
  Speaker 2: Okay, yeah he said that, as if that doesn't make.
• 6:58
  Speaker 1: Sense, this is a bad premise.
• 7:05
  Speaker 2: We're in, but we're not the main characters. No, yeah,
• 7:08
  Speaker 2: where okay, so think about it. So we've got the
• 7:12
  Speaker 2: u n B the United Nation of Baddies. It's an island,
• 7:15
  Speaker 2: but it's split in half. Each half has a high
• 7:18
  Speaker 2: lady running it. High Lady Bethany is my girlfriend, and
• 7:21
  Speaker 2: High Lady Cassie is his girlfriend. We're wife and husband,
• 7:24
  Speaker 2: be seeing so they have just like their high lady
• 7:29
  Speaker 2: and they're both very good high ladies to their people.
• 7:31
  Speaker 2: Each side has like kind of different you know, things
• 7:34
  Speaker 2: about them. They don't hate each other, and then different
• 7:36
  Speaker 2: cultures and then we come in they meet them their husbands.
• 7:40
  Speaker 2: We're spiteful we're high lords now maybe high men, and
• 7:45
  Speaker 2: we I'm high Lord Power.
• 7:47
  Speaker 3: High Lord calystemons On, and we both have a child,
• 7:52
  Speaker 3: son daughter.
• 7:54
  Speaker 2: They both die, we both blame each other for their deaths.
• 7:58
  Speaker 2: So now the UNB is cutting big divide, big divide. Yeah,
• 8:02
  Speaker 2: and I will premise the high ladies that don't they
• 8:05
  Speaker 2: don't really give much of a ship, but we.
• 8:08
  Speaker 3: Are causing a rocket yeah, okay, okay, yeah, and then
• 8:11
  Speaker 3: our magic system is working on the name. But it's
• 8:14
  Speaker 3: dream based, so when you go to sleep, whatever you dream,
• 8:18
  Speaker 3: you wake up with that power.
• 8:19
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 8:20
  Speaker 3: And so there's a bit of confusion in the UNB
• 8:22
  Speaker 3: with people trying to stay awake for too long because
• 8:25
  Speaker 3: they want to keep their good powers, and people who
• 8:28
  Speaker 3: are sleeping for too long because they're trying to get
• 8:30
  Speaker 3: a good power. So there's heaps of people stand awake
• 8:32
  Speaker 3: and not functioning, and there's heaps of people who are
• 8:34
  Speaker 3: just always asleep.
• 8:36
  Speaker 1: Interesting yeah, interesting.
• 8:38
  Speaker 2: Yeah, as far as we've got yeah, okay, could you work.
• 8:42
  Speaker 1: It's got legs, Yes, it's got legs. We want it's
• 8:44
  Speaker 1: got legs. I'd love to know motivations for characters. Ye,
• 8:50
  Speaker 1: So I'd love to know what your you know what
• 8:52
  Speaker 1: the motivations are for how the how that's going to
• 8:56
  Speaker 1: propel the story along. So you need to so and callistemon.
• 9:01
  Speaker 1: They need to.
• 9:04
  Speaker 2: Very good fantacy names.
• 9:06
  Speaker 1: I might steal it.
• 9:08
  Speaker 2: I'll tell you what if you do. They're all all life.
• 9:10
  Speaker 1: But what we need to know, so then you need
• 9:12
  Speaker 1: to work out, So what are their motivators? What was
• 9:14
  Speaker 1: their childhood like? Are they are they driven by fear?
• 9:18
  Speaker 1: They driven by greed? Are they driven by sadness? Like
• 9:21
  Speaker 1: you both had your children die? So I imagine that
• 9:23
  Speaker 1: they're both driven by sadness. You need to know what
• 9:25
  Speaker 1: their motivators are. And with your magic system, if every
• 9:30
  Speaker 1: single person in the entire world can get powers from
• 9:33
  Speaker 1: their dreams, then how does that make if everyone special?
• 9:40
  Speaker 1: No one special sort of thing? And that's finally you
• 9:43
  Speaker 1: don't actually have to have people special. But you need
• 9:45
  Speaker 1: to know the answer to that question.
• 9:46
  Speaker 2: Why are we special? So no, wh're not. That's the
• 9:49
  Speaker 2: thing is, we're not going to think we are. We're men.
• 9:51
  Speaker 1: And also and if and if and if you're and
• 9:54
  Speaker 1: if you're what if the high ladies don't care? But
• 9:57
  Speaker 1: are you seeing as you've sort of come in into
• 10:00
  Speaker 1: this pace, so who actually makes decisions like who holds
• 10:03
  Speaker 1: the power because the high ladies don't care and you
• 10:05
  Speaker 1: two are running a running a mark. Surely the surely
• 10:09
  Speaker 1: the high laders is stepping in and going like, you know,
• 10:12
  Speaker 1: here's there's a lot of whys, but there's a lot
• 10:16
  Speaker 1: of why. And I go through these too when my
• 10:20
  Speaker 1: publisher will literally like put comments on my think why
• 10:24
  Speaker 1: why why? And you know, and that's the thing because
• 10:27
  Speaker 1: you're like because sometimes you and she's like, yeah, she's
• 10:32
  Speaker 1: like I don't know why because it's cool because I
• 10:36
  Speaker 1: like it. That's yeah, and you know, maybe that is
• 10:39
  Speaker 1: your why. But yeah, so I think you've got legs
• 10:42
  Speaker 1: and you've got and you've got a cool world. I
• 10:44
  Speaker 1: really like the two opposing cultures. That's really cool because
• 10:47
  Speaker 1: you can do a real the dynamic between those can
• 10:50
  Speaker 1: be really distinct, and it's like how how they sort
• 10:55
  Speaker 1: of interact with each other coming from different cultures. Because
• 10:57
  Speaker 1: a lot of fantasy, that's a lot of a lot
• 10:59
  Speaker 1: of fantasy actually takes all of the elements from our
• 11:02
  Speaker 1: real world, like be a political, cultural, class, gender, race,
• 11:07
  Speaker 1: and they put it into fantasy books and that's they
• 11:10
  Speaker 1: put it through that scope. Of fantasy. So a lot
• 11:12
  Speaker 1: of what you're actually reading is actually a story about
• 11:15
  Speaker 1: the real world through a fantasy lens. I may have
• 11:20
  Speaker 1: taken this all. I mean, you've got legs, you've got.
• 11:25
  Speaker 2: Our final pitch was we want you in the book.
• 11:30
  Speaker 3: Okay, and we're thinking unless you add some mightyars off
• 11:33
  Speaker 3: the top of your head, am I my son's actually
• 11:38
  Speaker 3: my son is actually not dead and he's actually like
• 11:42
  Speaker 3: got an alias.
• 11:43
  Speaker 2: And you can be him.
• 11:45
  Speaker 3: Okay, But if you could call yourself anything in a book,
• 11:48
  Speaker 3: what would it be?
• 11:49
  Speaker 1: Well, if we're going to go with like poem callistomone,
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: I think i'd have to be like.
• 11:54
  Speaker 2: We can't sound like pokemon. Yeah, Like, there's a few
• 12:01
  Speaker 2: different plan Oh, I tell you what we can do.
• 12:03
  Speaker 2: I'll insert it or something.
• 12:05
  Speaker 1: I'll go up.
• 12:06
  Speaker 3: What's the pines.
• 12:08
  Speaker 1: That you log cypress pine?
• 12:09
  Speaker 3: Yeah, so you can just be called cypress botanical name
• 12:15
  Speaker 3: for Cyprus.
• 12:15
  Speaker 1: There is no whatever.
• 12:21
  Speaker 2: The botanical name for Cyprus is, that'll be. That'll be. Yeah.
• 12:25
  Speaker 1: But so if I am the son, how and I
• 12:31
  Speaker 1: am not dead? Who's looking after me? And how old?
• 12:35
  Speaker 1: Am I?
• 12:37
  Speaker 2: No? Here's the thing, right, So you're old, you're you
• 12:40
  Speaker 2: take care of yourself, right, You're like, you guys are annoying.
• 12:44
  Speaker 2: But basically what we were thinking at one point as well,
• 12:47
  Speaker 2: was we stid away from this slightly. Is so my
• 12:50
  Speaker 2: daughter and you actually had a relationship, but it was
• 12:55
  Speaker 2: sort of like you know, Romeo and Juliet style, where
• 12:57
  Speaker 2: they couldn't be together, all right, and we were all
• 13:00
  Speaker 2: like no, no, no, no, no, okay, And so then I
• 13:03
  Speaker 2: have maybe because you're alive. You guys were going to
• 13:06
  Speaker 2: commit the double suicide, but she didn't and you didn't. Yeah,
• 13:12
  Speaker 2: and the brandchild involved where.
• 13:17
  Speaker 1: I would I would say to you that it's probably
• 13:19
  Speaker 1: getting too complex at this point. Okay, you've got too
• 13:22
  Speaker 1: many wise, and we can add into Grandchile. Yeah, but
• 13:28
  Speaker 1: I'm losing track of I'm losing track of the war
• 13:30
  Speaker 1: between these two, these two high We can work on it.
• 13:34
  Speaker 2: We can work on that. Yeah, we can work on that.
• 13:36
  Speaker 2: We'll come back to you maybe in like a few months.
• 13:38
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you've got legs with it, the dream Magic system
• 13:41
  Speaker 1: like that. Yeah, I'm a big fan of that. Actually, Yeah,
• 13:44
  Speaker 1: I don't know how that.
• 13:45
  Speaker 2: I think it'd be cooler if the classmen could do
• 13:47
  Speaker 2: it and lower classmen couldn't or something.
• 13:49
  Speaker 1: Well, I mean usually with magic, you want to try
• 13:52
  Speaker 1: and it usually is a it's something that separates classes,
• 13:56
  Speaker 1: or it's it's it's something that's either separate, as you said,
• 14:01
  Speaker 1: like the elite from the from the lower class, or
• 14:05
  Speaker 1: it is something that is really hated upon. I would say, oh,
• 14:10
  Speaker 1: what's what's what I'm looking for? Persecuted. So yeah, so
• 14:15
  Speaker 1: usually like magic users either like the elites or they're
• 14:18
  Speaker 1: the persecuted things like that.
• 14:20
  Speaker 2: That makes sense. Is there any magic systems you don't
• 14:23
  Speaker 2: like in books that are like pretty popular?
• 14:26
  Speaker 1: Hmm, well, seen as we were talking about Akatar earlier.
• 14:31
  Speaker 1: So Akatar for me is really so when you talk
• 14:34
  Speaker 1: magic systems, you've got hard magic systems and soft magic systems,
• 14:38
  Speaker 1: and hard magic systems are have you I don't know
• 14:41
  Speaker 1: they ever run any Brandon Sanderson Brandon send is probably
• 14:43
  Speaker 1: like the absolute pinnacle of hard magic systems. Hard to read.
• 14:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you haven't want to He's Okay.
• 14:50
  Speaker 1: I've got issues with Sandson, but but I really respect
• 14:54
  Speaker 1: what he does. I think he's incredible what he does.
• 14:56
  Speaker 1: But when you talk when we're talking magic systems, so
• 14:58
  Speaker 1: if they're hard magic systems, it's it's like it's engineering,
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: like it's something you cannot have this without this, and
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: this is how this works, and you have to go
• 15:06
  Speaker 1: through these steps for this to happen. It's such a
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: very rigid, very set up. And the more the more
• 15:15
  Speaker 1: a magic system, the bigger the role the magic system
• 15:17
  Speaker 1: plays in the world, the harder it has to be,
• 15:21
  Speaker 1: if that makes sense, because if it plays a massive
• 15:23
  Speaker 1: role in your story, it needs to be a hard,
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: like really outlaid magic system. Then you have soft magic systems,
• 15:30
  Speaker 1: which are more like a Gandalf if you don't really
• 15:34
  Speaker 1: actually sort of like know what his the limits of
• 15:36
  Speaker 1: his power are. With the scope of his powers, he
• 15:38
  Speaker 1: couldn't sort of do these things, but his magic doesn't
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: have a huge role in the story, so it doesn't
• 15:45
  Speaker 1: really need to be defined. My issue with an Akata
• 15:47
  Speaker 1: say so, it's not so much I hate magic systems.
• 15:50
  Speaker 1: What I hate is when I'm reading a book and
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: it's a soft magic system that solves that can just
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: solve everything. Ah.
• 15:57
  Speaker 2: So when you because we have he did a some
• 16:00
  Speaker 2: rebottals with that, how many act books have you read?
• 16:04
  Speaker 1: I've read the first three, so you finished, so.
• 16:06
  Speaker 2: Oh okay, So spoiler alert, everyone's about to come up
• 16:09
  Speaker 2: basically at the end of the third one.
• 16:11
  Speaker 1: Yep, when when they went.
• 16:12
  Speaker 2: Against it went spoiler alert when Reese dies. Yes it,
• 16:17
  Speaker 2: I'm not gonna lie.
• 16:18
  Speaker 1: Like.
• 16:18
  Speaker 2: I was like, cool, he came back to life. But
• 16:20
  Speaker 2: I also was like, if you're going to kill someone,
• 16:23
  Speaker 2: kill someone. Then what pissed me off even more was
• 16:26
  Speaker 2: when they bring him back to life and then Amron,
• 16:28
  Speaker 2: who literally just like committed suicide to save everyone, right,
• 16:32
  Speaker 2: He's like, oh, we better get Amory out, she's getting cold.
• 16:35
  Speaker 2: I was like, Okay, I pissed me off even more.
• 16:37
  Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly. See, that's that's what I mean. When you've
• 16:40
  Speaker 1: got these And that's my issue with the Actars. It
• 16:42
  Speaker 1: never really defined what the magic could do. And Fairah
• 16:46
  Speaker 1: sort of she was at times like she was the
• 16:49
  Speaker 1: she was the most powerful being or she had, you know,
• 16:52
  Speaker 1: in the whole thing. But then when they went to war,
• 16:55
  Speaker 1: they're like, sit out, and I was like, you don't
• 16:57
  Speaker 1: leave a Ferrari in the garage.
• 16:58
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I do agree.
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah, And so the my issues I said that I
• 17:02
  Speaker 1: don't have any issue. I love all magic systems, but
• 17:05
  Speaker 1: my issue is when a soft magic system needs to
• 17:08
  Speaker 1: be a hard magicism because you can't once you if
• 17:10
  Speaker 1: you don't define what it does and it sort of
• 17:13
  Speaker 1: saves a day or you're just that you get to
• 17:15
  Speaker 1: the end of the book and assist crisis moment and
• 17:17
  Speaker 1: she's like, oh, I've got this power that can save
• 17:20
  Speaker 1: the entire planet, and you're like, where did that come from? Yeah,
• 17:24
  Speaker 1: so that's so that's my issue. You need to the why.
• 17:27
  Speaker 2: They must have got a wye on that, and she
• 17:31
  Speaker 2: would have just said.
• 17:31
  Speaker 1: But because, but I mean also, then you got also
• 17:34
  Speaker 1: that's Romancey, so you don't actually you're not really reading
• 17:37
  Speaker 1: a Romancey for a magic system because it's much more
• 17:42
  Speaker 1: about I think they're much more about the accessibility and
• 17:45
  Speaker 1: their strength is in other areas.
• 17:47
  Speaker 2: We got comments same because we we went hard. I
• 17:51
  Speaker 2: remember I was I was going hard.
• 17:53
  Speaker 1: I'm sure, I'm actually I remember seeing the clip of
• 17:55
  Speaker 1: you boys reading that really yeah, yeah, fair.
• 17:58
  Speaker 2: I remember we got some comments and people being like,
• 18:00
  Speaker 2: it's a fantasy book, like a happy ending.
• 18:03
  Speaker 1: Yeah, And I was like, look, fair, but that I
• 18:06
  Speaker 1: had an issue with two because book three, I said,
• 18:08
  Speaker 1: it's this is too Disney like everyone everyone lives and
• 18:11
  Speaker 1: everyone's the day saved.
• 18:14
  Speaker 2: That is true, I will say if you read the
• 18:16
  Speaker 2: rest of it.
• 18:18
  Speaker 3: Book.
• 18:19
  Speaker 2: So book four is the little novella and it's it's
• 18:24
  Speaker 2: it's a setup for yeah, yeah, it's it's it's a
• 18:28
  Speaker 2: set no Frost and Starlight, sorry novella and then Silver Flames.
• 18:33
  Speaker 2: It's a really good book. But it's once again just
• 18:35
  Speaker 2: like there is lots of moments where the softer magic
• 18:38
  Speaker 2: just it just saves them always. Yeah, there's like this massive,
• 18:42
  Speaker 2: massive build up. I won't spoil it, but just there's
• 18:45
  Speaker 2: this huge build up. Like the fifth book is actually
• 18:48
  Speaker 2: about Nesta, it's not about recent and so her story
• 18:52
  Speaker 2: is awesome, like her growth is amazing, but at the
• 18:57
  Speaker 2: very very end, there was this massive build up for
• 19:01
  Speaker 2: this thing that was so terrible and then she's just
• 19:04
  Speaker 2: like it's like, oh I forgot I could do this. Yeah,
• 19:10
  Speaker 2: and then it just everything. But at the same time,
• 19:13
  Speaker 2: I was kind of like I read it for the smart.
• 19:16
  Speaker 1: Like at the end of the day, that's actually not
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: what you're reading.
• 19:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but so yeah, it was good. Damn. We have
• 19:23
  Speaker 2: actually talking about smart talking about we have a bit
• 19:28
  Speaker 2: of a game we'd like to play with you.
• 19:30
  Speaker 3: Have you read much Smart Hate, Yeah, we actually do
• 19:34
  Speaker 3: quite enjoy it and we thought we'd play a game
• 19:39
  Speaker 3: with you.
• 19:40
  Speaker 2: Let me, let me just so we're going to read.
• 19:50
  Speaker 2: We're going to read you some passages from books, and
• 19:54
  Speaker 2: you need to tell us whether it is actually from
• 19:57
  Speaker 2: a smart book or if it's from our brains.
• 20:02
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 20:06
  Speaker 2: I was really keen to do this. And now I'm
• 20:09
  Speaker 2: we're going to get.
• 20:10
  Speaker 1: A character a bit, give me, give me a real
• 20:14
  Speaker 1: smoky voice and stop.
• 20:16
  Speaker 2: No, no, no, we'll get you to read them after. Yeah,
• 20:19
  Speaker 2: you're like the best, really nice people. Yeah.
• 20:22
  Speaker 3: Well, the good thing that we because we were new
• 20:24
  Speaker 3: to the whole smart world in a Katar is like
• 20:27
  Speaker 3: it was eye opening in a sense of it teaches
• 20:29
  Speaker 3: so much of how men should be having sex with
• 20:31
  Speaker 3: their partners as well.
• 20:32
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Well for so long, you know, women were getting
• 20:37
  Speaker 1: a lot of their intimacy from those books. They weren't
• 20:40
  Speaker 1: getting it in the real world. And yeah, I mean
• 20:43
  Speaker 1: and still and still now yeah, of course, yeah it's still.
• 20:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, those books like changed a lot for me.
• 20:52
  Speaker 1: And yeah, and it's very eye opening as a male.
• 20:58
  Speaker 1: Hang on a minute, it's almost like I think I
• 21:00
  Speaker 1: pay more attention to it's almost a hack.
• 21:02
  Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, and then all the other blogs give your
• 21:05
  Speaker 5: ship for reading god fantasy, smart or just smut in
• 21:10
  Speaker 5: general when it's written by a woman, is an actual,
• 21:13
  Speaker 5: like step by step.
• 21:15
  Speaker 2: Guide of what women want in the bedroom.
• 21:18
  Speaker 1: Yes, absolutely, I would say it some sometimes, like some
• 21:22
  Speaker 1: things you're just like that is completely unrealistic, of course,
• 21:27
  Speaker 1: but definitely and even but even as a man, you know,
• 21:29
  Speaker 1: even I would say as a man, there are things
• 21:32
  Speaker 1: I've read in books I'm like, I would like that, Oh,
• 21:36
  Speaker 1: that'd be really nice, Like I think i'd really enjoy that,
• 21:39
  Speaker 1: you know, like when especially when it's a lot I've
• 21:42
  Speaker 1: read Fabulous Mother's Duel POV. It's a male and female
• 21:48
  Speaker 1: and you get like the female and what the female
• 21:50
  Speaker 1: does to the man is I'm like, I really like that? Yeah,
• 21:55
  Speaker 1: like really because because something like and you just said
• 21:58
  Speaker 1: we were taught white porn, Yeah, and you just so
• 22:02
  Speaker 1: just have this one image of what sex should be
• 22:06
  Speaker 1: and that's it. Yeah, and you actually and so even
• 22:08
  Speaker 1: as a man, I think that there's many things in
• 22:10
  Speaker 1: those books where I've been and they like I'll be
• 22:13
  Speaker 1: reading them, I'll be getting aralist and I'm like, I want,
• 22:16
  Speaker 1: I want to do this.
• 22:17
  Speaker 2: It's yeah, I have you read dagamouth No okay, good book.
• 22:22
  Speaker 2: But I was reading it and like within the first
• 22:25
  Speaker 2: like five chapters, I was like reading it and I
• 22:27
  Speaker 2: remember in my heart started racing and I was like, fuck,
• 22:30
  Speaker 2: what the hell? And I like put it down for
• 22:31
  Speaker 2: a bit and I was like Jesus Christ, I was like,
• 22:34
  Speaker 2: and I was just like this is I was just
• 22:37
  Speaker 2: like that was. So I was speechless. It was like
• 22:41
  Speaker 2: the craziest thing, and like I could, I didn't fully
• 22:44
  Speaker 2: do that for me because like it.
• 22:45
  Speaker 1: Was is still not like super spicy.
• 22:48
  Speaker 2: No, and it's not spicyest no, and like Daggermouth is
• 22:51
  Speaker 2: set more. It's like a dystopian like the world could
• 22:53
  Speaker 2: eventually like you can imagine that could happen, like magic.
• 22:57
  Speaker 3: And so I was kind of like, dang, we were
• 23:00
  Speaker 3: going to do some role play, but we decided against it,
• 23:02
  Speaker 3: like male female and would both back together.
• 23:04
  Speaker 2: But yeah, yeah, okay, yeah, yeah, okay, okay, So.
• 23:13
  Speaker 1: Are you ready good?
• 23:15
  Speaker 2: Is this from a smutty book? Yeah? Is this from
• 23:18
  Speaker 2: a smutty book or from one of our brains?
• 23:20
  Speaker 1: Yep?
• 23:22
  Speaker 2: He accentuated every word with a savage thrust. Do I
• 23:27
  Speaker 2: feel good to you? She whimpered her confirmation, then managed
• 23:31
  Speaker 2: to say I like it when you ride me hard
• 23:34
  Speaker 2: every time I move and my body is sore. She
• 23:37
  Speaker 2: had to fight for the words for control. I think
• 23:40
  Speaker 2: of you, of your cock. Good. I want my cock
• 23:44
  Speaker 2: to be the only thing you think about. His pace
• 23:46
  Speaker 2: faltered as he licked up the column of her neck.
• 23:50
  Speaker 2: She could hear the taunting smile in his words as
• 23:53
  Speaker 2: he whispered, because your pretty little is the only thing
• 23:56
  Speaker 2: I think about. That is from a novel, correct, Yeah,
• 24:03
  Speaker 2: that is all ship that that's actually from Sarah J.
• 24:06
  Speaker 1: Mass novel.
• 24:07
  Speaker 2: There what gave away?
• 24:10
  Speaker 1: I think straight off the bat. When she said it
• 24:13
  Speaker 1: accentuated every word. I was like, that's a writer.
• 24:17
  Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, fair, dang it you might. That's so true.
• 24:24
  Speaker 2: You one from one, one from one. All right, my turn,
• 24:26
  Speaker 2: I gotta get a character a bit. Sorry, that was
• 24:28
  Speaker 2: a quarter sivil flames, by the way, you can read it.
• 24:33
  Speaker 2: Here we go.
• 24:34
  Speaker 3: She pushed him gently back onto the bed and paused,
• 24:38
  Speaker 3: allowing herself a moment to take him in. The confidence
• 24:41
  Speaker 3: in her gaze made his breath quicken.
• 24:44
  Speaker 1: He reaps. He reached for the.
• 24:46
  Speaker 3: Clasp of her Crimson Crimson lace, but she caught his
• 24:49
  Speaker 3: wrist with a playful smile. And said, just watch, don't touch.
• 24:55
  Speaker 3: Slowly deliberating, she stepped back and began to undress, never
• 25:00
  Speaker 3: breaking eye contact. Every moment was unhurried, calculated, and entirely
• 25:05
  Speaker 3: on her terms. The anticipation in the room grew heavier
• 25:09
  Speaker 3: with each passing second. She could see the effect she
• 25:13
  Speaker 3: was She could see the effect she was having on him,
• 25:16
  Speaker 3: the way his eyes followed her every movement, the way
• 25:20
  Speaker 3: his cock grew thicker and longer with every movement. In
• 25:23
  Speaker 3: that moment, she held all the power, and she knew it.
• 25:29
  Speaker 1: That's from what his brain God all.
• 25:37
  Speaker 2: Game that way. I thought that was good.
• 25:39
  Speaker 1: I'm very honest. The way you were reading that was
• 25:42
  Speaker 1: exactly the way someone who wrote their own thing would
• 25:44
  Speaker 1: read it.
• 25:44
  Speaker 2: Ah, so we should have read each other's.
• 25:48
  Speaker 1: But also, you actually repeated a word.
• 25:52
  Speaker 2: Movement twice, that movement twice when you were reading it.
• 25:55
  Speaker 2: I heard it and no and.
• 25:56
  Speaker 1: No and no author. I mean you you do I
• 26:00
  Speaker 1: do it all the time. You don't repeat words in
• 26:05
  Speaker 1: the same paragraph.
• 26:08
  Speaker 3: Dang, I was soe, we'll get one, we'll get one,
• 26:14
  Speaker 3: We'll get.
• 26:17
  Speaker 2: Okay. He focuses on my mouth, then back to my
• 26:21
  Speaker 2: eyes again, then back to my mouth. He whispers my name.
• 26:26
  Speaker 2: He says my name so softly, I'm not even sure
• 26:29
  Speaker 2: if his mouth moves. I don't have time to respond.
• 26:32
  Speaker 2: His hand leaves the button of my shirt and slides
• 26:35
  Speaker 2: through my hair. At the same moment as his lips
• 26:37
  Speaker 2: connect fiercely with mine. He slides his body on top
• 26:40
  Speaker 2: of me, and his kiss instantly becomes intense, deep, dominating.
• 26:46
  Speaker 2: His kiss is full of something that's never been there before,
• 26:49
  Speaker 2: full of feeling, full of hope.
• 26:52
  Speaker 1: Mm, that's from the big Fellow's brain.
• 26:58
  Speaker 3: No, that's a compliment to You's god.
• 27:03
  Speaker 1: Okay, ugly love.
• 27:04
  Speaker 2: Colin Hoover.
• 27:06
  Speaker 1: There you go. Okay, you know what.
• 27:08
  Speaker 2: I know what I did to you. Though they use
• 27:11
  Speaker 2: a name in here, and I didn't say the name
• 27:14
  Speaker 2: I was going to say. I was going to say blank,
• 27:18
  Speaker 2: he whispers, but instead I said, he whispers my name.
• 27:22
  Speaker 2: You would have got it if I said blank, he whispers. Okay,
• 27:25
  Speaker 2: let's oh.
• 27:26
  Speaker 1: I mean, oh yes, if you said blank, yeah, that
• 27:29
  Speaker 1: would have gave it.
• 27:32
  Speaker 2: But that's not about it's about the feel. It's about
• 27:35
  Speaker 2: the Okay, Okay, let's say he's two from three. He's
• 27:40
  Speaker 2: pretty good, pretty good. I think that's a compliment.
• 27:46
  Speaker 3: I'm gonna try to read it the same way no
• 27:48
  Speaker 3: matter what I do.
• 27:51
  Speaker 2: Okay, here we go.
• 27:52
  Speaker 3: He pushed her leg aside and sank inside her. She
• 27:56
  Speaker 3: groaned and arched, forcing him to speed up to a
• 27:59
  Speaker 3: faster pace. His fingers clenched over her thigh, and he
• 28:03
  Speaker 3: moved harder, deeper, shafting her in long, fast strokes. Delicious.
• 28:09
  Speaker 2: She slid her hands down over his back, slick with sweat,
• 28:13
  Speaker 2: and grasped his pumping butt cheeks. He pressed his mouth
• 28:19
  Speaker 2: against her neck and kissed her, his tongue working over
• 28:22
  Speaker 2: her sensitive skin.
• 28:24
  Speaker 3: Fuck.
• 28:24
  Speaker 1: He mumbled, that's from a romance novel.
• 28:30
  Speaker 3: Good good, good good answer The Right sweighte by Alicia Ray,
• 28:37
  Speaker 3: something a bit different.
• 28:39
  Speaker 2: I remember when I read that, I was like, that's good.
• 28:41
  Speaker 2: I thought I was gonna get in with the butt cheeks.
• 28:43
  Speaker 1: But yeah, funny, you know what actually thought. That's that's
• 28:47
  Speaker 1: why I thought it was a romance novel, to be honest,
• 28:49
  Speaker 1: because I wouldn't say that. I don't think you'd say that.
• 28:51
  Speaker 2: Yeah, because also full transparency. One time when me and
• 28:56
  Speaker 2: my girlfriend were making love, she brought her hands around
• 29:00
  Speaker 2: in my bum and afterwards I was like, slightly vulnerable
• 29:07
  Speaker 2: in that in that moment.
• 29:11
  Speaker 1: Okay, yeah, that is a vulnerable position.
• 29:16
  Speaker 2: It's not I don't know the side, but bum. I
• 29:19
  Speaker 2: also don't have a bum.
• 29:20
  Speaker 3: So like, just like that, I'm thinking like I've got nothing,
• 29:25
  Speaker 3: nothing to grab.
• 29:26
  Speaker 2: That's fair. Yeah, I remember being like a bit of
• 29:30
  Speaker 2: a postgame interview. Let's do a review on that. Bring up,
• 29:40
  Speaker 2: bring up. I'll tell you after. Don'tory about it. No
• 29:45
  Speaker 2: one cares about that. Okay, next one, do you like
• 29:52
  Speaker 2: it when I am? Without finishing her question, the hand
• 29:56
  Speaker 2: she had around his cock started stroking or her other
• 29:59
  Speaker 2: hand delicate, he circled the tip. His head jolted back
• 30:03
  Speaker 2: as he said through his moan. If you don't stop,
• 30:06
  Speaker 2: I'll come all over your hands right now. She looked
• 30:09
  Speaker 2: him in his dark brown eyes, and without breaking eye contact,
• 30:12
  Speaker 2: she leaned down and spat on his cock. His whole
• 30:16
  Speaker 2: body tensed as the stroking sped up. Knowing he couldn't
• 30:19
  Speaker 2: hold it in, he looked her in the eyes and
• 30:21
  Speaker 2: leant into her beautifully soft hands, covering every square inch
• 30:25
  Speaker 2: of them.
• 30:29
  Speaker 1: Oh that's difficult. See, I want to say that that
• 30:36
  Speaker 1: was from you, because I feel like you wouldn't. I
• 30:39
  Speaker 1: feel like you'd want to throw one of your own
• 30:41
  Speaker 1: in there somewhere. I also think that that's from a
• 30:46
  Speaker 1: romance novel because she said come all over my hand.
• 30:53
  Speaker 1: That's something that that's like, that's a pretty Things like
• 30:57
  Speaker 1: that are pretty common in smitted. So I'm gonna say
• 31:01
  Speaker 1: it's one smart noble gotcha.
• 31:07
  Speaker 4: Sign u NB is going to be a smart fantasy.
• 31:20
  Speaker 2: Well, I feel like I need to calm down after that,
• 31:29
  Speaker 2: because we're taking a very sharp left, very sharp left turn.
• 31:33
  Speaker 2: This is actually something that we didn't actually we didn't
• 31:38
  Speaker 2: know how to bring up properly, and we kind of
• 31:42
  Speaker 2: just book yeah, like we thought, and it's not like
• 31:45
  Speaker 2: head on, it's more of a topic. So the topic
• 31:49
  Speaker 2: at hand, we want to talk about binnscas women and
• 31:53
  Speaker 2: basically we we have spoken about it a little bit
• 31:59
  Speaker 2: between ourselves and the podcast and full transparency. Though it's
• 32:04
  Speaker 2: something that we have been scared to talk about, which
• 32:12
  Speaker 2: in hindsight, I would say comes from a pretty privileged
• 32:16
  Speaker 2: place of like, you know, to be scared about to
• 32:20
  Speaker 2: talk about the thing that you know our gender does
• 32:22
  Speaker 2: so badly, and that be the reason we don't want
• 32:26
  Speaker 2: to talk about it is because it's like confronting is
• 32:29
  Speaker 2: a pretty big thing. But then seeing you talk about
• 32:33
  Speaker 2: it quite openly, I would say it has been just
• 32:35
  Speaker 2: like an inspiration or just like almost like a gates
• 32:42
  Speaker 2: are open type of thing like and mission permission. Yeah,
• 32:46
  Speaker 2: we kind of just wanted to like ask, were you
• 32:52
  Speaker 2: like us at any point were you scared to talk
• 32:55
  Speaker 2: about it? And like how did you grow into being
• 32:57
  Speaker 2: so like, you know, you seem to be very articulate
• 33:00
  Speaker 2: in the subject.
• 33:03
  Speaker 1: Great question, And first of all, I don't think you
• 33:05
  Speaker 1: should be. I don't think you should ever feel guilty
• 33:07
  Speaker 1: over sort of staying quite about it, because that's how
• 33:10
  Speaker 1: we were conditioned, Like that's how we were raised in
• 33:13
  Speaker 1: cultures where that's what we were taught. So these are
• 33:16
  Speaker 1: like subconscious conditionings to stay silent about it because our
• 33:20
  Speaker 1: silence keeps us safe. So if we stay silent, we
• 33:24
  Speaker 1: stay safe. And as a human being, like you want
• 33:27
  Speaker 1: to stay safe and you want to survive and when
• 33:29
  Speaker 1: we live, and to speak about these things will get
• 33:34
  Speaker 1: you cast out of the group. And you're actually like
• 33:36
  Speaker 1: biologically wired to not want to do that. You want
• 33:39
  Speaker 1: to be a part of the group because that means
• 33:40
  Speaker 1: you survive. So I always, you know, don't feel I
• 33:43
  Speaker 1: don't feel bad about that because a lot of it's
• 33:45
  Speaker 1: not a lot of the time, it's not an active choice.
• 33:48
  Speaker 1: It's actually just like you, I need to survive. So
• 33:50
  Speaker 1: I'm not going to say anything about this. But I
• 33:53
  Speaker 1: think once you actually know better, and once you have
• 33:55
  Speaker 1: that information, then it becomes a choice. So it's so,
• 33:59
  Speaker 1: you know, speaking about it now is fantastic, but this
• 34:04
  Speaker 1: is great. So violence is the language of the inarticulate.
• 34:09
  Speaker 1: So growing up as men, we don't get taught how
• 34:13
  Speaker 1: to understand our motions, how to express our emotions, how
• 34:17
  Speaker 1: to share our emotions. It's always suppress, don't share, keep
• 34:22
  Speaker 1: it inside. You need to be if you want to
• 34:24
  Speaker 1: be a man, and this people don't say this to you,
• 34:28
  Speaker 1: like people didn't go to you when you're a five
• 34:29
  Speaker 1: o kid. If you want to be a man, you
• 34:31
  Speaker 1: don't show your emotion Like this comes through all this
• 34:34
  Speaker 1: other conditioning where when you did show emotion someone said
• 34:38
  Speaker 1: you don't be a pussy or things like that, so
• 34:41
  Speaker 1: you don't actually like someone doesn't sit you down and
• 34:43
  Speaker 1: say you can't show emotion. You get all of this
• 34:45
  Speaker 1: sort of indirectly. And men don't cry exactly. Yeah, you know,
• 34:48
  Speaker 1: men don't tough enough, you know, stop stop being a pussy,
• 34:52
  Speaker 1: stop being gay, like, don't be a don't be a girl,
• 34:55
  Speaker 1: things like that. So all this what seems really harmless
• 35:00
  Speaker 1: the time is actually you internalize that and you go, Okay,
• 35:03
  Speaker 1: every time I do anything that's associated with this, I
• 35:07
  Speaker 1: feel shame. People shame me. So then you internalize that shame,
• 35:11
  Speaker 1: and then you start shaming yourself. So then you start
• 35:14
  Speaker 1: selling yourself, Like then you start telling yourself like, don't
• 35:17
  Speaker 1: be a girl, don't cry, don't be weak. You start
• 35:21
  Speaker 1: telling yourself that. Yeah, so external voices policed us, and
• 35:26
  Speaker 1: then our internal voice shaped us. And that's how that
• 35:30
  Speaker 1: and that's how conditioning works. And so we never ever
• 35:34
  Speaker 1: got the language or the tools or the ability to
• 35:38
  Speaker 1: express our emotions and then those emotions because we live
• 35:42
  Speaker 1: in cultures where aggression, violence are extremely accepted, and you know, aggression, violence, anger,
• 35:52
  Speaker 1: where those things are actually really accepted for men. So
• 35:54
  Speaker 1: we grew up knowing, okay, crying not accepted, anger accepted.
• 35:59
  Speaker 1: And then when we feel all of this shame, the
• 36:01
  Speaker 1: only way that we then know how to externalize that
• 36:04
  Speaker 1: is through anger, violence and aggression because it's so accepted
• 36:08
  Speaker 1: in our world because you won't get shamed if you're
• 36:10
  Speaker 1: an angry man. It's like, oh, that's just he's just
• 36:12
  Speaker 1: you know, that's just him. That's just what men. That's
• 36:15
  Speaker 1: just what men are. But whereas you if you cry,
• 36:18
  Speaker 1: if that, if that emotion expresses itself through tears, you're
• 36:22
  Speaker 1: a girl, get you feel shamed for that. So we
• 36:25
  Speaker 1: live in these cultures where it's extremely accepted to be violent,
• 36:29
  Speaker 1: to be aggressive, and because we can't articulate our emotions,
• 36:33
  Speaker 1: they always express themselves as violence. And you're not going
• 36:36
  Speaker 1: to be violence against another man because that could you know,
• 36:40
  Speaker 1: that man could kill you. So you're going to be
• 36:43
  Speaker 1: violent to the person that you know you can harm,
• 36:45
  Speaker 1: that you can take power from. Because men, really we
• 36:50
  Speaker 1: live in a world where where we're very patriarchal worlds
• 36:52
  Speaker 1: and we're conditioned to power. You know, we are really
• 36:56
  Speaker 1: driven to find power, and when we feel powerless, we
• 37:00
  Speaker 1: will take power from those who we know we can
• 37:02
  Speaker 1: get it from, which is women and children. So that's
• 37:05
  Speaker 1: and that's why, and you know, that's why these statistics
• 37:09
  Speaker 1: we see are so horrible and we talk about it
• 37:11
  Speaker 1: as well. Ninety two percent of violence and abuse against
• 37:18
  Speaker 1: women come from like male violence when ninety two percent
• 37:21
  Speaker 1: of it comes from a man that the woman knows,
• 37:23
  Speaker 1: either a partner or a family men, or someone in
• 37:26
  Speaker 1: their in their close circle. So you know, when men
• 37:31
  Speaker 1: talk about, you know, being like protectors, the person that
• 37:35
  Speaker 1: needs to be the person that your partner needs to
• 37:38
  Speaker 1: be protected from is you.
• 37:40
  Speaker 2: Yeah, like statistically.
• 37:43
  Speaker 1: Ninety two percent. So it's not even happening. You know,
• 37:47
  Speaker 1: we're not talking about women getting you know, assaulted by
• 37:51
  Speaker 1: a random man in the street. We're talking about women
• 37:55
  Speaker 1: getting bashed at home and abused at home by brother, father, partner,
• 38:02
  Speaker 1: et cetera, someone that they know. Because we just we
• 38:06
  Speaker 1: live in as I said, we live in a society
• 38:07
  Speaker 1: where that is so accepted aggression violence and is so
• 38:10
  Speaker 1: accepted for men. And then when it expresses, when it
• 38:13
  Speaker 1: expresses itself, it expresses onto those closest to us.
• 38:18
  Speaker 2: Fuck.
• 38:19
  Speaker 3: Yeah, that struggle that Jake spoke about in a sense
• 38:22
  Speaker 3: of when we had trouble bringing it up. I guess
• 38:25
  Speaker 3: our cop out, and I think a lot of men's
• 38:26
  Speaker 3: cop outs are yeah, but we don't do it.
• 38:29
  Speaker 2: And that's like the whole Like good men correct a
• 38:32
  Speaker 2: massive part of the problem.
• 38:34
  Speaker 1: Yep.
• 38:34
  Speaker 2: And then another thing, and that's where that's.
• 38:37
  Speaker 1: Where our silence comes in. Yeah, because our silence keeps
• 38:41
  Speaker 1: us safe. And it's very easy to say, oh, I
• 38:43
  Speaker 1: don't do that, and my mates wouldn't do that. Yeah,
• 38:46
  Speaker 1: but that's not the problem silence exactly right, exactly right, yeah,
• 38:50
  Speaker 1: like because your mate might not have done that yet,
• 38:53
  Speaker 1: but there's nothing to say, you know. And even for
• 38:55
  Speaker 1: me when I was going through addiction, the people that
• 38:59
  Speaker 1: I harm the most and this wasn't like physically, but
• 39:02
  Speaker 1: this was emotionally the people that ham ament with my
• 39:05
  Speaker 1: mum and my sister, because they were the ones who
• 39:07
  Speaker 1: loved me, they were trying to care for me, and
• 39:09
  Speaker 1: because I could only express myself angrily and violently like emotionally,
• 39:15
  Speaker 1: they were the ones who had who had to wear
• 39:17
  Speaker 1: all of that. The person that I loved more than
• 39:20
  Speaker 1: anyone in the world, my mother, is also the person
• 39:22
  Speaker 1: that I've caused the most harm. Yeah. Fuckah, sorry going
• 39:26
  Speaker 1: about this.
• 39:26
  Speaker 2: No, no, you're fine. Like recently, we so I saw
• 39:31
  Speaker 2: my girlfriend actually sent it to me and it was
• 39:34
  Speaker 2: a video saying that basically, like all men benefit from
• 39:42
  Speaker 2: violence against women. And it's like, you know that because
• 39:47
  Speaker 2: the violent men bring the standard down so much. It's
• 39:49
  Speaker 2: like if you've got someone at home that's been like
• 39:51
  Speaker 2: maybe a shitty boyfriend whatever, Like a lot of the
• 39:54
  Speaker 2: time they get the benefit of the doubt because it's like, well,
• 39:55
  Speaker 2: at least he's not violent, I understand. And when we
• 39:58
  Speaker 2: spoke about it, like we do this when we talk
• 40:01
  Speaker 2: about it together Oddie and myself like maybe I'll do
• 40:04
  Speaker 2: it when maybe I'm talking about it with my girlfriend.
• 40:06
  Speaker 2: So like in this particular conversation, it was something that
• 40:10
  Speaker 2: Oddie did and like he didn't do it in a
• 40:12
  Speaker 2: way to be like, oh, I don't want to talk
• 40:14
  Speaker 2: about this anymore, but like we almost so it's like
• 40:19
  Speaker 2: violent men bring make all men look good. And then
• 40:23
  Speaker 2: what we ended up talking about in that episode was
• 40:25
  Speaker 2: how just like men being pretty shit in general make
• 40:28
  Speaker 2: all men look good, and like we almost try and
• 40:30
  Speaker 2: change the subject without realizing it to being able to
• 40:33
  Speaker 2: talk to something that's more digestible for us to talk about,
• 40:37
  Speaker 2: just like the fact that you know, of rape and
• 40:41
  Speaker 2: murder is committed by men is something that's like confronting
• 40:47
  Speaker 2: for us for someone that would never do it, and
• 40:49
  Speaker 2: then we'll like, you know, or the fact again that
• 40:52
  Speaker 2: violent men make all men look good, we just say like,
• 40:55
  Speaker 2: oh yeah, like just shiit. Men in general make men
• 40:57
  Speaker 2: look good, and then that's easy to talk about. So
• 40:58
  Speaker 2: that's just like another thing.
• 41:00
  Speaker 3: One step down from the problem at hand.
• 41:02
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's like it's a conversation. Yeah, they shouldn't be connected.
• 41:06
  Speaker 2: So that's another like yeah, I would say, I guess
• 41:09
  Speaker 2: that's just like another maybe issue.
• 41:11
  Speaker 1: And this also comes from the fact that so patriarchy
• 41:15
  Speaker 1: teaches boys competing over connecting, winning over relating, and fighting
• 41:20
  Speaker 1: over cooperating. So we also when other men are being
• 41:25
  Speaker 1: really shit, there's a part of us through because we've
• 41:28
  Speaker 1: been conditioned by patriarchy, there's a part of us that goes, oh,
• 41:31
  Speaker 1: that's my win, Like I don't need to I don't
• 41:34
  Speaker 1: need to do anything, because if he becomes like a
• 41:37
  Speaker 1: good man, then that's someone who can beat me. That's
• 41:41
  Speaker 1: someone who can compete with me. So well, he's ship
• 41:44
  Speaker 1: and I'm better than him. When when I'm when I'm winning,
• 41:46
  Speaker 1: you know, the the competition, that's probably not the right
• 41:50
  Speaker 1: way to say it, but when he's a man, that
• 41:52
  Speaker 1: means I win. Yeah, I look I look good exactly right.
• 41:56
  Speaker 1: And that's another reason why we stay signed because you know,
• 41:59
  Speaker 1: if all if all these ship men are doing shit
• 42:02
  Speaker 1: things and then I'm good, then I'm beating them. And
• 42:06
  Speaker 1: that's and patriarchy teaches us to compete. That's why, Mayo,
• 42:10
  Speaker 1: and when we talk about and this is what going
• 42:13
  Speaker 1: a bit off topic when you talk about the male
• 42:14
  Speaker 1: loneliness epidemic, that is because we are conditioned from boys
• 42:17
  Speaker 1: to compete with each other. So we can't form a
• 42:21
  Speaker 1: close male friendship because you're my competition. So I need
• 42:25
  Speaker 1: to compete with you. I need to fight with you,
• 42:27
  Speaker 1: I need to beat you, and and and then we
• 42:31
  Speaker 1: try to be friends. There's all there's a ceiling to that.
• 42:35
  Speaker 1: If I'm competing with you, there's a ceiling to whatever
• 42:37
  Speaker 1: connection we can have. And I think we you know,
• 42:39
  Speaker 1: when we talk about the male lonly and epidemic, men
• 42:41
  Speaker 1: aren't lonely physically like men men where we live in
• 42:45
  Speaker 1: cities with millions of people, we're in proximity to each other.
• 42:50
  Speaker 1: We're lonely emotionally because we don't actually connect with each other,
• 42:54
  Speaker 1: which which draws it back to because we're always competing
• 42:56
  Speaker 1: with each other.
• 42:58
  Speaker 3: And what I was going to ask further down the track,
• 43:00
  Speaker 3: but because you brought it up when you started posting
• 43:03
  Speaker 3: online and Jake mentioned, like, you're a great male role model.
• 43:08
  Speaker 3: Did you lose your friends in any sense because they
• 43:12
  Speaker 3: felt threatened or saw you as competition or like the.
• 43:15
  Speaker 2: Fact that you were like maybe calling them out.
• 43:17
  Speaker 1: That is a really great question, actually, and yes, I did,
• 43:21
  Speaker 1: not not all my friends, but I did lose people.
• 43:26
  Speaker 2: And I think that's part of the problem.
• 43:27
  Speaker 3: And we're in a position where our sort of education
• 43:30
  Speaker 3: has been sped run. Our demo is nine percent women,
• 43:33
  Speaker 3: so we have a lot of women in our corners,
• 43:35
  Speaker 3: which we learn from and we're very grateful for. But
• 43:38
  Speaker 3: we wanted to ask too, because you're so open about it.
• 43:40
  Speaker 3: We've struggled to wrap our heads around of what each
• 43:43
  Speaker 3: individual man can actually do to like say, what they
• 43:47
  Speaker 3: can do to help the problem, rather than just being
• 43:49
  Speaker 3: silent because it doesn't affect me. Yeah, and then like
• 43:52
  Speaker 3: us even us talking about it is a great start, obviously,
• 43:56
  Speaker 3: right and acknowledging the fact that like we neither one
• 43:59
  Speaker 3: of us that have ever harmed a woman, But we're
• 44:01
  Speaker 3: also like, yeah, bus being someone's part of the problem,
• 44:03
  Speaker 3: Like that's one thing to acknowledge, but like, and then
• 44:06
  Speaker 3: there's also just there's other things obviously that need to
• 44:09
  Speaker 3: be done.
• 44:09
  Speaker 1: Yeah, really case, because we sort of know, Okay, this
• 44:14
  Speaker 1: is where men are and this is where we want
• 44:17
  Speaker 1: men to be, Like, we actually know what that looks like.
• 44:19
  Speaker 1: We you know, when we talk about being very integrated,
• 44:23
  Speaker 1: being very high emotional IQUS, being able to connect, being vulnerable,
• 44:28
  Speaker 1: being intimate, Like, we sort of know what the image
• 44:30
  Speaker 1: of where we want to get to is and we
• 44:32
  Speaker 1: know the space between where we are now and where
• 44:34
  Speaker 1: we want to get to? So how do we bridge
• 44:37
  Speaker 1: that gap? And that's what I think, that's what you're
• 44:38
  Speaker 1: asking very much. How do we actually what do we
• 44:41
  Speaker 1: implement to get there? And I always say it begins.
• 44:46
  Speaker 1: We can talk about this until the cows come home,
• 44:49
  Speaker 1: so it has to be put into action. And then
• 44:51
  Speaker 1: so how do you put that into action? And that
• 44:53
  Speaker 1: is issual, just like you two holding each other accountable
• 44:56
  Speaker 1: and then you hold your other mate accountable and you say,
• 45:01
  Speaker 1: this is the standard we accept and if you don't
• 45:04
  Speaker 1: meet that standard, you are not our friend. We like,
• 45:07
  Speaker 1: we will not associate ourselves with you. And then once
• 45:10
  Speaker 1: we get enough men, once you get you know, fifty
• 45:13
  Speaker 1: one percent of men, once you have the majority of
• 45:15
  Speaker 1: men doing that holding each other accountable, saying that this
• 45:18
  Speaker 1: is the standard that we will accept, otherwise you don't
• 45:22
  Speaker 1: get to be a part of this group. True, we
• 45:26
  Speaker 1: get there.
• 45:26
  Speaker 2: So do you think that men being cast out is
• 45:29
  Speaker 2: a fear of theirs? Nearly, because like that's one also
• 45:32
  Speaker 2: triggering us being too scared to talk about the thing.
• 45:35
  Speaker 1: One hundred percent.
• 45:36
  Speaker 2: And then the other thing though with that is like
• 45:38
  Speaker 2: not not to say you're wrong or anything, but like
• 45:41
  Speaker 2: it's like, so, let's just say one of our mates
• 45:45
  Speaker 2: is maybe talking about how that he got physical with
• 45:49
  Speaker 2: with his girlfriend and and he's trying to justify it,
• 45:51
  Speaker 2: and we're like, no, that's like sucked up.
• 45:54
  Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, yeah, So it's.
• 45:55
  Speaker 2: Like calling him out is one thing, but then casting
• 45:58
  Speaker 2: him out is like not going to stop him from
• 46:02
  Speaker 2: doing that.
• 46:02
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 46:03
  Speaker 2: So that's the one thing as well where it's like
• 46:05
  Speaker 2: you're almost just like, well, we're not going to be
• 46:06
  Speaker 2: a friend anymore.
• 46:07
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 46:08
  Speaker 2: So it's like obviously you don't want to be friends
• 46:10
  Speaker 2: with someone like that, but then it's not going to
• 46:12
  Speaker 2: stop that guy.
• 46:13
  Speaker 1: I see what you're saying. The behavior needs to change,
• 46:17
  Speaker 1: and there is a yes, there is an absolute distinct there.
• 46:21
  Speaker 1: We're like, well, I would actually prefer to stay with this,
• 46:23
  Speaker 1: like to stay with this person to be able to
• 46:25
  Speaker 1: show them and be able to make sure that I
• 46:28
  Speaker 1: keep them on the right track. And that absolutely, yes,
• 46:31
  Speaker 1: you right, but that has to come with boundaries, yeah,
• 46:34
  Speaker 1: like that has to come with complicated complicated you absolutely,
• 46:40
  Speaker 1: But and that's where and I think that that's also
• 46:43
  Speaker 1: where we need to bridge the gap because you can
• 46:46
  Speaker 1: explain that to someone, but if they don't have the
• 46:50
  Speaker 1: capacity or the knowledge or the ability to understand that,
• 46:54
  Speaker 1: it kind of falls on deaf years. And this is
• 46:56
  Speaker 1: where I take it back to, you know, when we're boys,
• 46:58
  Speaker 1: teaching him about a emotional you know, emotional intelligence and
• 47:02
  Speaker 1: getting their emotional quoted up that so that when they're older,
• 47:06
  Speaker 1: they can actually understand the things that they're talking about.
• 47:08
  Speaker 1: Because I talked about this when I went through recovery.
• 47:11
  Speaker 1: I was seeing psychologists and psychologists were giving me tools,
• 47:15
  Speaker 1: but I was like, I don't know how to use
• 47:18
  Speaker 1: this tool. No one taught me how to use this tool. Yes,
• 47:22
  Speaker 1: I understand that if I feel this way, I should
• 47:25
  Speaker 1: do this, but I don't know how I feel. Yeah,
• 47:28
  Speaker 1: okay that you're like, okay, like when you feel like
• 47:31
  Speaker 1: this do this be like, well, I don't even I
• 47:33
  Speaker 1: can't do step one. So you're telling me how to
• 47:35
  Speaker 1: do step two, but I can't do step one. So
• 47:37
  Speaker 1: I think that you know, that's where an important part
• 47:41
  Speaker 1: of this picture too, where he's like, you need to
• 47:43
  Speaker 1: know if you're when you when your friend is like hypothetical,
• 47:47
  Speaker 1: if your friend is violent, and then you're trying to
• 47:50
  Speaker 1: explain to them like what's wrong about it or how
• 47:53
  Speaker 1: they can change, et cetera. I think you really need
• 47:55
  Speaker 1: to also understand does that person actually have the ability
• 47:59
  Speaker 1: to know what I'm saying to them to be able
• 48:01
  Speaker 1: to learn from what I'm saying to them, Because if
• 48:04
  Speaker 1: I'm telling them something that they don't comprehend.
• 48:07
  Speaker 2: It's just like you said, they just don't care.
• 48:11
  Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly. Yeah, yeah, but that's where But also that
• 48:14
  Speaker 1: doesn't mean that like, that doesn't mean you should give up,
• 48:16
  Speaker 1: like because we like, yeah, this is we absolutely need
• 48:19
  Speaker 1: to be doing this consistently because that's how we learn
• 48:24
  Speaker 1: and working with them. If they're open to it, I think,
• 48:29
  Speaker 1: you know, because they've got to be open to it
• 48:31
  Speaker 1: as well. And I think that's the difference, because if
• 48:34
  Speaker 1: someone's not even open to it. I think that's where
• 48:36
  Speaker 1: you go see it later, because nothing I do will help.
• 48:40
  Speaker 1: But if someone is open to it, that's when you stand.
• 48:42
  Speaker 1: And that's where those boundaries come into play.
• 48:44
  Speaker 3: I think that's where we went wrong in our youth
• 48:46
  Speaker 3: as well, is rather than saying something, none of our
• 48:50
  Speaker 3: friends like did anything like that, but it was the
• 48:52
  Speaker 3: first step to maybe objectifying women or doing something like that,
• 48:56
  Speaker 3: and we knew that it was wrong. Yeah, but we
• 48:59
  Speaker 3: had that same male mindset. And I don't want to
• 49:01
  Speaker 3: put an excuse on it saying it's immaturity, but I
• 49:04
  Speaker 3: remember telling myself from my head or no, that's just
• 49:06
  Speaker 3: the way so and so is.
• 49:08
  Speaker 2: Rather than doing what we've learned now and.
• 49:10
  Speaker 3: We've The reason I asked that question is we've lost
• 49:13
  Speaker 3: all of our friends from this podcast because I think
• 49:14
  Speaker 3: it's confronted.
• 49:16
  Speaker 2: Of how they view women.
• 49:19
  Speaker 3: And I wish you we said at the start ten
• 49:21
  Speaker 3: year old self. Probably too early, but if I could
• 49:23
  Speaker 3: tell my younger self something, it's say what you're thinking,
• 49:25
  Speaker 3: because a lot of men do think what is right,
• 49:27
  Speaker 3: but they won't say anything. Yeah, and that's where it
• 49:29
  Speaker 3: should start.
• 49:30
  Speaker 1: Absolutely. Yeah, So you would have lost like all your mates.
• 49:34
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's kind of like a weird one. Like we
• 49:37
  Speaker 2: basically just like our our old friend group, we had
• 49:39
  Speaker 2: like a very close, close friend group for a long time,
• 49:42
  Speaker 2: for like quite a few years, and then we started
• 49:44
  Speaker 2: the podcast and the friend group from like what we
• 49:48
  Speaker 2: know has you know, it's not just all still together
• 49:51
  Speaker 2: and we're the only ones. Not like I think everyone's
• 49:52
  Speaker 2: still friendly, but some of them there's like separate groups
• 49:55
  Speaker 2: now forming that are stronger and stuff like that. But
• 49:57
  Speaker 2: the thing that we're we're like, oh what the hell about?
• 49:59
  Speaker 2: Is like we will have a couple of friends that
• 50:01
  Speaker 2: we're still quite close with that will tell us like
• 50:05
  Speaker 2: just like stuff that's said about us, you know, behind
• 50:07
  Speaker 2: our backs, and we haven't spoken to them for maybe
• 50:09
  Speaker 2: a couple of years, and so we're just kind of.
• 50:11
  Speaker 1: Like, what the fuk?
• 50:12
  Speaker 2: Like, it's just so so.
• 50:14
  Speaker 3: I think it's that they feel threatened or.
• 50:18
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and they would never admit that.
• 50:21
  Speaker 2: I would struggle to admit it.
• 50:23
  Speaker 1: They might not even know that, you know. And that's
• 50:26
  Speaker 1: and that's what I'm coming back to, is like the
• 50:28
  Speaker 1: reason that people act certain ways, they might not even
• 50:32
  Speaker 1: understand why they're acting that way, So they would feel
• 50:35
  Speaker 1: threatened by you so then they need to go, Okay,
• 50:37
  Speaker 1: well I need to shame, shame them to feel good,
• 50:40
  Speaker 1: to feel good about myself, and and and they wouldn't
• 50:43
  Speaker 1: even really understand that they're doing that, which once again,
• 50:46
  Speaker 1: which comes back to when we're children. But you so
• 50:49
  Speaker 1: when we're growing up, when you grow up in those cultures,
• 50:52
  Speaker 1: and believe me, like I say this wholeheartedly, I have
• 50:55
  Speaker 1: been the I have been the epitome of that culture.
• 50:59
  Speaker 1: Like I paid in I was in rugby league my
• 51:01
  Speaker 1: entire life, in Hypermassing Golgi, and I played in the NRL,
• 51:04
  Speaker 1: which is, you know, absolutely steeped in misogyny, homophobia, racism,
• 51:09
  Speaker 1: every hyper masculinity. Like it's the absolute tip of the
• 51:14
  Speaker 1: the top of the pyramid for that kind of stuff.
• 51:17
  Speaker 1: So I haven't always been I haven't. I wasn't like
• 51:19
  Speaker 1: this when I was, you know, two years old. I
• 51:21
  Speaker 1: haven't always had this sort of view. But once you understand,
• 51:23
  Speaker 1: and the way that I actually began to understand it too,
• 51:26
  Speaker 1: was because when I went through my addiction recovery, I
• 51:29
  Speaker 1: started I actually really had to look at all the
• 51:31
  Speaker 1: systems because I was like, why was I one hundreds
• 51:36
  Speaker 1: of thousand dollars a year playing in the NRAL, which
• 51:39
  Speaker 1: was like my dream in a privileged position that so
• 51:44
  Speaker 1: many other people would want to be in, and I
• 51:47
  Speaker 1: wanted to kill myself, so and I had to go
• 51:50
  Speaker 1: why was that? And then through that recovery process, which
• 51:55
  Speaker 1: was encompassed many many things, but a part of that
• 51:58
  Speaker 1: was actually what were the system that conditioned me into
• 52:02
  Speaker 1: that belief? And that's when I started to look at
• 52:04
  Speaker 1: you know, masculinity, patriarchy and how misogyny plays out. And
• 52:09
  Speaker 1: I think that what men don't understand is is that
• 52:12
  Speaker 1: misogyny externally internalizes, as internalizes itself within you. And then
• 52:19
  Speaker 1: so you have to reject everything inside of yourself that
• 52:22
  Speaker 1: is that you see as feminine or related to women.
• 52:26
  Speaker 1: So then you start carving away parts of yourself and
• 52:30
  Speaker 1: you're left with, you know, ten percent of what your
• 52:33
  Speaker 1: entire humanity is because anything that doesn't fit the narrative
• 52:36
  Speaker 1: that you've been told through masculinity in patriarchy, everything else
• 52:40
  Speaker 1: has to be excluded. And that's really and that's how
• 52:43
  Speaker 1: I sort of came That's how I ended up understanding
• 52:46
  Speaker 1: these sorts of things because I was like, why do
• 52:48
  Speaker 1: I hate myself? Is because there were so many parts
• 52:51
  Speaker 1: of myself that I'd had to exclude, and they were
• 52:55
  Speaker 1: parts in so much pain. The only way that they
• 52:58
  Speaker 1: could I could numb them was through addiction. Does that
• 53:02
  Speaker 1: make sense that? Actually?
• 53:04
  Speaker 2: Thank you for share that now? Yeah?
• 53:06
  Speaker 1: Wow, And that's why I think. That's what I really
• 53:09
  Speaker 1: want men to understand, is what we want to do
• 53:11
  Speaker 1: for women, you know, and what and the safe world
• 53:14
  Speaker 1: that we want to create for women is absolutely beneficial
• 53:19
  Speaker 1: for them, Yes, you know what I'm saying. But it
• 53:21
  Speaker 1: is so beneficial for men.
• 53:22
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it is.
• 53:24
  Speaker 1: And that's the dumbest thing about this is it's almost
• 53:28
  Speaker 1: like it makes me sad in a way that men
• 53:30
  Speaker 1: would have to see the benefits for themselves to want
• 53:33
  Speaker 1: to do it. But in a sense like that's how
• 53:37
  Speaker 1: you like, if men can see the benefit for themselves,
• 53:40
  Speaker 1: it will actually mobilize them into doing it. Because while
• 53:43
  Speaker 1: it's sort of as you know, we stay science like, ah,
• 53:45
  Speaker 1: it doesn't affect me. It's not my issue. You know,
• 53:48
  Speaker 1: it's not not happening in my house, so what do
• 53:50
  Speaker 1: I care? Sort of thing. But once I understand it
• 53:52
  Speaker 1: actually helps them, that's when you will start to see
• 53:55
  Speaker 1: real change. But and this takes me back to my
• 53:59
  Speaker 1: other point, they need to have the tools to be
• 54:01
  Speaker 1: able to understand that. Yeah, because we consider and tell
• 54:05
  Speaker 1: men that, but unless they have the tools and the
• 54:07
  Speaker 1: ability to understand that and learn that, then it really
• 54:11
  Speaker 1: achieved nothing as its fools on deaf years.
• 54:13
  Speaker 3: What was the defining factor when, because I know there's
• 54:17
  Speaker 3: a lot of tangible skills getting over any addiction that
• 54:20
  Speaker 3: you can take into life, and I know I've heard
• 54:24
  Speaker 3: your story before and you've gone through so much. What
• 54:27
  Speaker 3: was the defining factor where there was a switch in
• 54:29
  Speaker 3: your brain. Not comparing it to advance against women, but
• 54:34
  Speaker 3: you realize that I need to make a change, And
• 54:37
  Speaker 3: how can that be replicated to other men in any
• 54:40
  Speaker 3: sort of aspect of any issue within the world.
• 54:42
  Speaker 1: Yeah, great question. And this is so because I tried
• 54:48
  Speaker 1: to I tried to kill myself, so I had a
• 54:52
  Speaker 1: suicide of dam which is which is public knowledge I
• 54:54
  Speaker 1: talk about. But we also need to understand and this
• 54:56
  Speaker 1: is once again exactly what I was just talking about before.
• 55:00
  Speaker 1: So the way that we condition boys always shows up,
• 55:04
  Speaker 1: as you know, it expresses itself as violence. That's not
• 55:08
  Speaker 1: always violence against women, that's violence men, that violence against
• 55:13
  Speaker 1: other men too, because men, you know, a lot of
• 55:15
  Speaker 1: like male or male male and male murdering happens. But
• 55:19
  Speaker 1: also if there's five people in a morgue who are
• 55:22
  Speaker 1: dead from suicide, four of those are men. That violence
• 55:25
  Speaker 1: doesn't always manifest itself against women. That violence manifests itself
• 55:29
  Speaker 1: against ourselves a lot of the time too. And that's
• 55:32
  Speaker 1: why you know, when I say men need to understand
• 55:36
  Speaker 1: that this thing like fixing violence against women also will
• 55:39
  Speaker 1: fix violence against themselves. And a lot of like our
• 55:43
  Speaker 1: suicide and stuff.
• 55:44
  Speaker 2: I never even thought of it like that.
• 55:45
  Speaker 1: Yeah, of course, yeah, and you know, and that's for me.
• 55:47
  Speaker 1: So I got to that point where I tried to
• 55:49
  Speaker 1: commit suiciic goes my life was and this is once
• 55:51
  Speaker 1: again was I was living my dream and I tried
• 55:54
  Speaker 1: to take my own life. So that's when I was like,
• 55:57
  Speaker 1: there is something really terribly wrong here because that should
• 56:02
  Speaker 1: not happen. You shouldn't be living your dream and want
• 56:05
  Speaker 1: to kill yourself. And so it was at the end
• 56:08
  Speaker 1: of your questions about what you replicate it, How I
• 56:12
  Speaker 1: replicate it, Yeah, really difficult because it.
• 56:14
  Speaker 2: Means it's an individual experience.
• 56:16
  Speaker 1: It is, and I get asked this question a lot,
• 56:19
  Speaker 1: and it's really difficult. I think everyone has their own journey,
• 56:23
  Speaker 1: and I would love to see I would love to
• 56:25
  Speaker 1: see culture, as I said, culture change for boys who
• 56:27
  Speaker 1: are three, four, five years old, and it really begin there,
• 56:31
  Speaker 1: so no one, so no one actually has to even
• 56:33
  Speaker 1: get to the point that I did before we start changing.
• 56:36
  Speaker 1: We shouldn't. We shouldn't be trying to change men when
• 56:38
  Speaker 1: they're even eighteen, nineteen twenty. This should start when boys
• 56:42
  Speaker 1: are literally two three.
• 56:44
  Speaker 2: Exactly when they can as soon as yeah.
• 56:46
  Speaker 1: This assues, they're coherent of the world. This should start.
• 56:51
  Speaker 1: But the way that I would say to other men
• 56:55
  Speaker 1: is and and it's difficult because this is the way
• 57:04
  Speaker 1: that I understand it too. But there is a level
• 57:09
  Speaker 1: of pain, a level of discomfort, a level of discontentment
• 57:12
  Speaker 1: that you feel, and I would say that like that's
• 57:15
  Speaker 1: for every man, because it's just the way that we exist,
• 57:19
  Speaker 1: and you need to know that that discomfort does not
• 57:23
  Speaker 1: need to be there at whatever level that it's at.
• 57:27
  Speaker 1: And you can find really a really beautiful, joyful life
• 57:33
  Speaker 1: in whatever you're doing if you're willing to step onto
• 57:36
  Speaker 1: the other side of what keeps you safe, like our signs,
• 57:40
  Speaker 1: because we actually because we benefit from patriarchal side. So
• 57:42
  Speaker 1: men benefit from like, we get a lot of benefits
• 57:45
  Speaker 1: from it, and if we're willing to give up our
• 57:47
  Speaker 1: power and give up our benefits, we'll actually, like we'll
• 57:50
  Speaker 1: still have a lot of benefits on the other side
• 57:53
  Speaker 1: of it. But if you're willing to give up the
• 57:55
  Speaker 1: things that benefit you but are really actually like hindering
• 57:58
  Speaker 1: you on the other side, that you want a really joyful,
• 58:01
  Speaker 1: beautiful life, That's that's the way I understand. I don't
• 58:04
  Speaker 1: know whether that's really applicable to everybody, but yeah.
• 58:07
  Speaker 2: No, I see what you mean, and you almost like
• 58:11
  Speaker 2: you went through a much more extreme version version of
• 58:15
  Speaker 2: getting to that point, correct, And like I would even
• 58:17
  Speaker 2: say so, like for myself, obviously I can't speak for Audie.
• 58:21
  Speaker 2: For myself, I would say, like I I don't think
• 58:24
  Speaker 2: I'm not like afraid to admit that. I would say,
• 58:26
  Speaker 2: I'm not even at your point if that, I don't
• 58:29
  Speaker 2: know if that makes much sense, But like I only,
• 58:32
  Speaker 2: it's not a race, yeah, exactly, like it's it's the
• 58:36
  Speaker 2: only My girlfriend is the single and sole reason that
• 58:43
  Speaker 2: I even have any knowledge on violence scains women, and
• 58:48
  Speaker 2: even like she is the sole reason, and like she's
• 58:53
  Speaker 2: like my favorite person on the planet. She's been she's
• 58:56
  Speaker 2: had an experience with you know, like a violence experience
• 59:00
  Speaker 2: with men, and she is the person that has like
• 59:04
  Speaker 2: actually she's like called me out and been like, you know,
• 59:08
  Speaker 2: you guys have a platform, you have a big platform,
• 59:12
  Speaker 2: and you are a good man, but you also are
• 59:15
  Speaker 2: part of the problem. Like she's not afraid to say
• 59:17
  Speaker 2: that to me, and it just like the very first
• 59:19
  Speaker 2: time she ever said it, I remember like it almost
• 59:22
  Speaker 2: felt like I was like the smallest person ever. I
• 59:25
  Speaker 2: like part of me. My first instinct was to be
• 59:27
  Speaker 2: like yeah, but like I don't do that. My first
• 59:29
  Speaker 2: instinct was to do yes. But like she just is very,
• 59:34
  Speaker 2: very articulate in this area, and she is the only
• 59:38
  Speaker 2: reason that I understand that quote unquote good men are
• 59:43
  Speaker 2: a massive part of the problem. And so it's like
• 59:45
  Speaker 2: my version of beginning there was my girlfriend and like
• 59:48
  Speaker 2: being obviously open to taking the criticism and listening to
• 59:52
  Speaker 2: her about her experience, and then also the knowlogy has
• 59:54
  Speaker 2: been then your experience was you know, you went through
• 59:57
  Speaker 2: a lot of things and they got there probably not
• 59:59
  Speaker 2: on your own, but like you got there in your
• 1:00:01
  Speaker 2: own way. Yeah, everyone will get there in their own way.
• 1:00:03
  Speaker 1: Yeah it is, and yeah, you are right, and it
• 1:00:06
  Speaker 1: is a difficult thing to do because it's sort of
• 1:00:08
  Speaker 1: like my advice is not going to work for everybody,
• 1:00:11
  Speaker 1: and my journey is not everybody else's. But I do
• 1:00:13
  Speaker 1: understand what you're saying. I always say my biggest thing
• 1:00:16
  Speaker 1: is doing in a child work. I always say what
• 1:00:19
  Speaker 1: people like, like, what's the best thing that changed? I say,
• 1:00:21
  Speaker 1: in a childwork? Yeah, But you can't go to someone
• 1:00:25
  Speaker 1: at step one and say starting a child work. You know.
• 1:00:29
  Speaker 1: That's yeah, because if someone had the same with me,
• 1:00:31
  Speaker 1: if someone had said that to me back in twenty
• 1:00:34
  Speaker 1: twenty when I very first started going to therapy, like
• 1:00:36
  Speaker 1: we're going to do in a child walk about what
• 1:00:38
  Speaker 1: are you talking about? Because I said, I couldn't even
• 1:00:41
  Speaker 1: I couldn't even describe my feelings. I couldn't even name
• 1:00:43
  Speaker 1: what I was feeling then, let alone like doing a
• 1:00:46
  Speaker 1: child work. Yeah. So that's where and that's a big
• 1:00:50
  Speaker 1: that bridge that we need to gap, is that the
• 1:00:53
  Speaker 1: gap that we need a bridge so that we need
• 1:00:58
  Speaker 1: boys to be able to have the foundation that you
• 1:01:03
  Speaker 1: can build upon, because at the moment we're trying to
• 1:01:05
  Speaker 1: build stuff upon men who don't even have the foundation.
• 1:01:08
  Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, So it's like the every man. Every man's
• 1:01:13
  Speaker 2: like a skyscraper without a foundation, and they're about the
• 1:01:16
  Speaker 2: crumble type exactly, and it's crumbling, you know.
• 1:01:19
  Speaker 1: And now I think that that's and I also think
• 1:01:20
  Speaker 1: that that's why a lot of that messaging and a
• 1:01:22
  Speaker 1: lot of the a lot of what we try and
• 1:01:24
  Speaker 1: say two men gets lost again because even my messaging
• 1:01:28
  Speaker 1: and stuff, it's sort of you know, second or third floor.
• 1:01:32
  Speaker 1: A lot of the men don't have the foundation that
• 1:01:35
  Speaker 1: to understand that or too yeah, or like.
• 1:01:39
  Speaker 3: To apply that's a generational answer.
• 1:01:43
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it starts about kids, their.
• 1:01:44
  Speaker 1: Kids, their kids.
• 1:01:46
  Speaker 2: Another thing, Yeah, you kind of like said it in
• 1:01:49
  Speaker 2: a roundabout way there. But another thing on this the
• 1:01:51
  Speaker 2: podcast I listened to that you were on, you said, like,
• 1:01:55
  Speaker 2: growth isn't about adding things, it's about taking things away.
• 1:01:58
  Speaker 2: So it's like if you can grad around that as well,
• 1:02:01
  Speaker 2: then that would be obviously a massive helping factor.
• 1:02:05
  Speaker 1: One hunder And that's how like growth. It's one of
• 1:02:10
  Speaker 1: my favorite things. Growth is not about adding things on,
• 1:02:13
  Speaker 1: it's about taking things off. And that's all the conditioning,
• 1:02:16
  Speaker 1: all the messaging, all our beliefs, everything that we were
• 1:02:19
  Speaker 1: instilled into us growing up, or the all shame taking
• 1:02:24
  Speaker 1: that all off because who you are is has always
• 1:02:28
  Speaker 1: been there from the very day you were born, has
• 1:02:31
  Speaker 1: always been there inside of you, and then that person
• 1:02:34
  Speaker 1: just got slowly suffocated by what the world told you
• 1:02:38
  Speaker 1: to be or what you know ever, everything that just
• 1:02:41
  Speaker 1: got put on top of that. So taking those things off,
• 1:02:44
  Speaker 1: because there's a beautiful man and a beautiful boy that
• 1:02:47
  Speaker 1: has always been there.
• 1:02:55
  Speaker 2: I have an announcement to make.
• 1:02:58
  Speaker 1: What is it?
• 1:02:59
  Speaker 2: I am officially pause for silence, dramatic effect.
• 1:03:06
  Speaker 3: A Marcher, Babe, Man, I am so glad you said that,
• 1:03:09
  Speaker 3: because I am too.
• 1:03:12
  Speaker 2: I absolutely love Marcher.
• 1:03:14
  Speaker 1: It's like a reward.
• 1:03:16
  Speaker 2: Couldn't agree more, my friend could not agree more. Throughout
• 1:03:19
  Speaker 2: the day, I do little tasks and I'm like.
• 1:03:23
  Speaker 3: You know what, I deserve a Marcher same and I
• 1:03:26
  Speaker 3: go to at the moment, Jake, are these perfect head
• 1:03:29
  Speaker 3: vanilla march to late cans?
• 1:03:32
  Speaker 2: Cans?
• 1:03:33
  Speaker 3: Not only do they taste amazing, but it's also a
• 1:03:35
  Speaker 3: different source of caffeine to coffee.
• 1:03:37
  Speaker 2: Mate, That's true, and they're so handy, like it's just
• 1:03:42
  Speaker 2: a cafe quality Marcher in a can in your.
• 1:03:46
  Speaker 3: Head, Mate, I am obsessed, and I know the baddies listening.
• 1:03:50
  Speaker 3: I're gonna be looking for a sign to get a
• 1:03:51
  Speaker 3: marcher today.
• 1:03:53
  Speaker 2: Here it is so hey, you've heard it here First,
• 1:03:57
  Speaker 2: don't walk, but run to.
• 1:03:59
  Speaker 3: Cold all right, it's time for one of you to
• 1:04:02
  Speaker 3: sign off the episode.
• 1:04:03
  Speaker 2: You know what to do by now. There'll be a
• 1:04:04
  Speaker 2: link in the description and hopefully you get.
• 1:04:07
  Speaker 3: Called by us Jake today, who are going to call Katie?
• 1:04:15
  Speaker 2: Hello? Hello? Is this Katie? Yes, Katie's Jake and.
• 1:04:24
  Speaker 6: No freaking works. Oh my god, I just tell you
• 1:04:27
  Speaker 6: I only just set up my Australia number because I
• 1:04:30
  Speaker 6: just moved to Australia because you guys give me some
• 1:04:32
  Speaker 6: advice and I decided to take the jobs and move
• 1:04:34
  Speaker 6: to Australia. Now I'm here.
• 1:04:36
  Speaker 2: What we told you to do it?
• 1:04:38
  Speaker 1: Yes?
• 1:04:39
  Speaker 2: Oh my god? Would you? Did you send a dilemma
• 1:04:41
  Speaker 2: or something?
• 1:04:42
  Speaker 6: I sent a dilemma on Patreon and I my university
• 1:04:47
  Speaker 6: degree and now I'm in Australia.
• 1:04:49
  Speaker 2: Katie. Wait, also, I really hope you enjoy it, Katie, Katie, Katie,
• 1:04:55
  Speaker 2: do you have you heard do you know someone named
• 1:04:57
  Speaker 2: Luke Bateman?
• 1:04:59
  Speaker 4: I do not Luke.
• 1:05:01
  Speaker 2: So we have a guest named Luke on you would
• 1:05:03
  Speaker 2: be you will not regret going and finding his Instagram
• 1:05:07
  Speaker 2: at called Luke Bateman and seeing his content. But Luke
• 1:05:10
  Speaker 2: has a question for you today.
• 1:05:12
  Speaker 1: Hello.
• 1:05:12
  Speaker 2: Okay, Hello, okay, hello.
• 1:05:14
  Speaker 1: I would like to see if you want to some
• 1:05:16
  Speaker 1: one off for us with a riddle or a question
• 1:05:18
  Speaker 1: or anything.
• 1:05:19
  Speaker 6: Yes, yes, oh yes, I'll find the episode of Oh
• 1:05:22
  Speaker 6: my gosh. I just really put my number in a
• 1:05:24
  Speaker 6: few days ago. I was going to write a quote,
• 1:05:25
  Speaker 6: but I didn't get one in time.
• 1:05:27
  Speaker 2: Any life models you live by, I just.
• 1:05:31
  Speaker 6: Say, like, honestly, it's never too late for anything. I think,
• 1:05:35
  Speaker 6: just go with what you think you want to do
• 1:05:38
  Speaker 6: in the moment, because there's always time for you to
• 1:05:41
  Speaker 6: go back and pick up maybe what you didn't want
• 1:05:44
  Speaker 6: to do in the moment when you decided to drop it.
• 1:05:46
  Speaker 2: That's great, that's really good.
• 1:05:49
  Speaker 1: It's perfect.
• 1:05:50
  Speaker 2: Katie. Thank you so much. Thank you for getting an
• 1:05:52
  Speaker 2: Australian number.
• 1:05:53
  Speaker 3: And you guys have the best journey every update us.
• 1:06:00
  Speaker 2: Thank you. Oh that's crazy. Wait, so she's sending in
• 1:06:06
  Speaker 2: a dilemma and if it's the exact one I remember.
• 1:06:08
  Speaker 2: So she Yeah, she had a unied degree and she
• 1:06:10
  Speaker 2: was like, guys, I don't know what to do. I
• 1:06:11
  Speaker 2: really want to go to Australia. I also don't know
• 1:06:13
  Speaker 2: if I want to finish my un degree. And we're
• 1:06:15
  Speaker 2: kind of like, fuck it, do you want to go
• 1:06:18
  Speaker 2: to Australia?
• 1:06:18
  Speaker 1: And she's done it.
• 1:06:20
  Speaker 2: It is two o'clock. Yeah, yeah, well that's good. We're done.
• 1:06:27
  Speaker 2: We love your stay bad Thanks Luke.
• 1:06:31
  Speaker 1: Recording.
• 1:06:33
  Speaker 2: Thanks, that's good.
• 1:06:36
  Speaker 1: Thanks having me on boys. This is a really good chat.
• 1:06:39
  Speaker 1: Really yeah, I like it. Yeah, there's some mad chat
• 1:06:44
  Speaker 1: for real. I want to come back.
• 1:06:46
  Speaker 2: You're only an hour away.
• 1:06:47
  Speaker 1: Whatever you want.
• 1:07:00
  Speaker 2: Oh bad, He's gonna say, if you're still here, you
• 1:07:02
  Speaker 2: are a real one, a real one. We wanted to
• 1:07:05
  Speaker 2: chime in here because in between segments, it happens all
• 1:07:08
  Speaker 2: the time between Audie and myself when we record on
• 1:07:10
  Speaker 2: our own, we'll always maybe like know that the segment's over,
• 1:07:13
  Speaker 2: have a little conversation that just gets cut out of
• 1:07:15
  Speaker 2: the episode. It happened with Luke Bateman, and usually it's
• 1:07:19
  Speaker 2: Oddie and I are just talking some shit that means nothing,
• 1:07:21
  Speaker 2: But with Luke Bateman, they were actually quite good conversations
• 1:07:23
  Speaker 2: in between sex. They were Yeah, So we wanted to
• 1:07:27
  Speaker 2: show them to you, BTS BTS. This first one was
• 1:07:33
  Speaker 2: right after we kind of just like wrapped up the
• 1:07:36
  Speaker 2: first segment. We just kind of kept talking and then
• 1:07:38
  Speaker 2: spoke for a minute, and we just thought it was
• 1:07:40
  Speaker 2: really nice.
• 1:07:40
  Speaker 1: So here go.
• 1:07:42
  Speaker 2: That is fucking sick. By the way, you also said
• 1:07:45
  Speaker 2: another thing on that podcast where you were like, you're
• 1:07:48
  Speaker 2: not a goals based you're values based. Yeah, you live
• 1:07:50
  Speaker 2: based off values, like instead of being like, well, I
• 1:07:53
  Speaker 2: want to get to this goal.
• 1:07:55
  Speaker 1: Because I think when you set goals sometimes they might
• 1:07:58
  Speaker 1: be out of alignment with your values, and then you'll
• 1:08:01
  Speaker 1: reach that goal and you go, oh, this didn't give
• 1:08:03
  Speaker 1: me what I wanted. I'm not fulfilled. I'm not happy. Okay,
• 1:08:07
  Speaker 1: I don't actually get any joy from this. Whereas when
• 1:08:09
  Speaker 1: you make decisions based off of your values, you know
• 1:08:11
  Speaker 1: that whatever end points you end at, it's going to
• 1:08:15
  Speaker 1: be fulfilling and rewarding because it's based on your values.
• 1:08:19
  Speaker 1: So I think I always said to people saying I
• 1:08:22
  Speaker 1: think something, I really love learning, so just learning some
• 1:08:26
  Speaker 1: of that, and it's like, that's why I love reading
• 1:08:27
  Speaker 1: because I love learning. So then when I make a decisions,
• 1:08:29
  Speaker 1: I to go, okay, does this bring me more learning
• 1:08:32
  Speaker 1: or doesn't anything like, okay, that does bring me more learning.
• 1:08:35
  Speaker 1: So yes, I'm going to say yes to that, because
• 1:08:37
  Speaker 1: no matter what the outcome is, I'm going to learn
• 1:08:40
  Speaker 1: something instead.
• 1:08:41
  Speaker 3: Of going all right, well I want to win either way.
• 1:08:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you're no either way, no matter what the guy Yeah, yeah.
• 1:08:46
  Speaker 2: I wish you didn't say that because and I only.
• 1:08:50
  Speaker 1: Know this because I was such a goals based person
• 1:08:53
  Speaker 1: for so long, okay, because I was always you know,
• 1:08:55
  Speaker 1: growing up, I was always I want to make it
• 1:08:57
  Speaker 1: like this footy team, or I want to make it
• 1:08:59
  Speaker 1: to the NRL, want this amount of money, or I
• 1:09:01
  Speaker 1: want to get that I want my NL contract to
• 1:09:04
  Speaker 1: be excellent number. It was always like goals, and then
• 1:09:07
  Speaker 1: I would reach those goals and I'd be like, oh
• 1:09:10
  Speaker 1: I'm still horribly unhappy.
• 1:09:12
  Speaker 2: Dang it. So money doesn't buy happiness.
• 1:09:16
  Speaker 1: Success made all these things success, money, happy, success, money, fame.
• 1:09:24
  Speaker 1: None of it brings you happiness, and and I think
• 1:09:27
  Speaker 1: that they're always what we put our we base our
• 1:09:30
  Speaker 1: goals around growing up, because I was like, I want
• 1:09:32
  Speaker 1: to be famous, I want to be rich, I want
• 1:09:33
  Speaker 1: to be this, I want to be that. Instead of
• 1:09:35
  Speaker 1: going okay, what's important to me and and like storytelling
• 1:09:38
  Speaker 1: is another thing, like a real value of mind storytelling.
• 1:09:41
  Speaker 1: So I go, does this bring me more storytelling? Or
• 1:09:44
  Speaker 1: doesn't it? And then you yeah, and you know and
• 1:09:48
  Speaker 1: same with intent, Yeah.
• 1:09:51
  Speaker 2: Does it help a little bit? What money rich?
• 1:10:00
  Speaker 1: I don't. I would actually even say this too about money,
• 1:10:05
  Speaker 1: what do you want that money for stuff?
• 1:10:06
  Speaker 2: Because because if you.
• 1:10:08
  Speaker 1: Want that money to buy stuff, if you want that
• 1:10:11
  Speaker 1: money to live in a massive house, that's not going
• 1:10:14
  Speaker 1: to bring you for filming, Like and you might think
• 1:10:16
  Speaker 1: once I have an eight bedroom house, they're I'll be happy.
• 1:10:20
  Speaker 1: Not going to happen.
• 1:10:21
  Speaker 2: Is there anything like is there anything freeing about knowing
• 1:10:24
  Speaker 2: that you have enough money to do that if you want?
• 1:10:28
  Speaker 1: Well, I don't have that money.
• 1:10:32
  Speaker 2: I'm talking about books.
• 1:10:33
  Speaker 1: I don't live in it. I don't live in an
• 1:10:36
  Speaker 1: Betty house. But I think for me, especially nowadays, with
• 1:10:40
  Speaker 1: money and being an ex scamming adictor. And we may
• 1:10:43
  Speaker 1: even get that, but being an ex scam I've really
• 1:10:45
  Speaker 1: had to change my relationship with money because money was
• 1:10:47
  Speaker 1: something I had a really bad relationship with for so long.
• 1:10:50
  Speaker 1: So now I you know, I really want to make
• 1:10:53
  Speaker 1: a lot of money. But that's actually so that I
• 1:10:55
  Speaker 1: can change a lot of people's lives because I don't
• 1:10:58
  Speaker 1: really what am I going to do with money? You
• 1:11:01
  Speaker 1: can go from a four bedroom house to a six
• 1:11:04
  Speaker 1: bedroom house. There's only so many things to do where
• 1:11:07
  Speaker 1: I want money so that I can help people and
• 1:11:10
  Speaker 1: change people's lives.
• 1:11:11
  Speaker 2: That's a pretty good. Yeah, it sucks you said on
• 1:11:13
  Speaker 2: that because I've got a decision to make where I
• 1:11:15
  Speaker 2: could either be spiteful or not spiteful, and it's probably
• 1:11:18
  Speaker 2: going to happen this afternoon, and now I'm not going
• 1:11:20
  Speaker 2: to be spiteful.
• 1:11:20
  Speaker 1: I would encourage you to be not spiteful. Yeah.
• 1:11:22
  Speaker 2: Have you ever been spiteful though? And been like that?
• 1:11:24
  Speaker 2: Did feel kind of good?
• 1:11:25
  Speaker 1: Oh? Yes, I've been spiteful many, many times, many times.
• 1:11:35
  Speaker 1: I mean, we're human. I'm probably spiteful every day. It's something,
• 1:11:39
  Speaker 1: but I think it's that. Has it felt good in
• 1:11:43
  Speaker 1: the moment ego before ego? Yeah? Absolutely? Has it felt good?
• 1:11:47
  Speaker 1: Has it ever served me long term? Never better?
• 1:11:52
  Speaker 2: Anyway? Well? Okay, that comes. That was really good. We
• 1:11:55
  Speaker 2: might train to slip that in the pod somewhere, but
• 1:11:57
  Speaker 2: we'll do our actually interright now.
• 1:11:58
  Speaker 3: Okay, that was superful? Yeah, really good. Yeah, we love
• 1:12:02
  Speaker 3: our best friend Luke Bateman.
• 1:12:03
  Speaker 2: Now don't we wait, our best friend Lou Bateman. He's
• 1:12:07
  Speaker 2: such a good friend that we go by Luke Bateman. Yeah.
• 1:12:10
  Speaker 2: But hid the scenes even more is we've been messaging.
• 1:12:14
  Speaker 1: We have been.
• 1:12:15
  Speaker 2: Texting Lou Bateman. And let me tell you one thing.
• 1:12:16
  Speaker 2: I haven't been leaving him on Delivered and I haven't
• 1:12:18
  Speaker 2: been leaving him on Red. I've been texting back straight away.
• 1:12:20
  Speaker 2: We're bff.
• 1:12:22
  Speaker 3: But this next bit is right before we call one
• 1:12:25
  Speaker 3: of you baddies. There was just a break in there
• 1:12:27
  Speaker 3: and we actually talk about something that Jake and I
• 1:12:29
  Speaker 3: have struggled with a lot. In a sense of our
• 1:12:32
  Speaker 3: demo is ninety percent plus women, which were super grateful for.
• 1:12:36
  Speaker 3: But a lot of the issues we talk about we
• 1:12:38
  Speaker 3: have struggle, struggle wrapping our head around how to make
• 1:12:41
  Speaker 3: an actionable change when we're not talking to men most
• 1:12:45
  Speaker 3: of the time. Yes, and we talk about that. We'll
• 1:12:47
  Speaker 3: get to it in there. We talk about calling a
• 1:12:48
  Speaker 3: batty too, That's why we're talking about.
• 1:12:50
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so we kind of asked him or we just said, like,
• 1:12:53
  Speaker 2: we've had comments on posts on Instagram of like obviously
• 1:12:57
  Speaker 2: so many of the comments are so nice but some
• 1:12:58
  Speaker 2: of the comments are like yeah, but like what's the point,
• 1:13:01
  Speaker 2: And I kind of read them and I think sometimes
• 1:13:03
  Speaker 2: I think, like what is the point? And so we
• 1:13:05
  Speaker 2: just like asked him about it.
• 1:13:06
  Speaker 3: Well, that's a great place.
• 1:13:07
  Speaker 2: Was all right, we gotta sign off. Oh yeah we did.
• 1:13:15
  Speaker 2: Did you talk about something?
• 1:13:15
  Speaker 3: Yeah, we call a batie, yes, yeah, and then we didn't.
• 1:13:19
  Speaker 2: The baddies don't know you're on. So whoever answers sick,
• 1:13:22
  Speaker 2: We're gonna be like, do you know who look great? Men?
• 1:13:24
  Speaker 1: Yeah? Oh wait, so this is is this a male
• 1:13:28
  Speaker 1: or female?
• 1:13:29
  Speaker 2: It'll be a woman.
• 1:13:29
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:13:30
  Speaker 2: We've had women about four percent of men that listened
• 1:13:33
  Speaker 2: to our podcast. Yeah, that's like, I know, we're not
• 1:13:35
  Speaker 2: technically this won't be Another issue is like we've had
• 1:13:38
  Speaker 2: people comment on things where we we'll talk about band
• 1:13:42
  Speaker 2: against women and people be like, yeah, but what are
• 1:13:43
  Speaker 2: you doing saying this to women? Women know this, and
• 1:13:46
  Speaker 2: we're kind of like, fun, we're stuck in a bit
• 1:13:47
  Speaker 2: of a suga here. It was like we are we
• 1:13:49
  Speaker 2: know we only have women, but.
• 1:13:50
  Speaker 1: Like we're trying and I'm in the same boat or
• 1:13:53
  Speaker 1: mainly women. Well eighty percent of my audience are women. Yeah,
• 1:13:57
  Speaker 1: because there's books like it's women. So it is really
• 1:14:01
  Speaker 1: difficult because then but the thing is you can't stop
• 1:14:07
  Speaker 1: like that doesn't make your effort. I mean, we shouldn't
• 1:14:09
  Speaker 1: try one hundred percent. Yeah, and that's where I said,
• 1:14:12
  Speaker 1: you when okay, Then it's because it doesn't have to
• 1:14:16
  Speaker 1: be like you don't have to be getting to two
• 1:14:18
  Speaker 1: million men's ears. You've got to be getting to your
• 1:14:21
  Speaker 1: mate of the pub. And that's like and that's like
• 1:14:24
  Speaker 1: I have like my three close friends, and I say,
• 1:14:26
  Speaker 1: this is a standard we accept. And then I hope
• 1:14:29
  Speaker 1: that they tell that their sort of other like two
• 1:14:32
  Speaker 1: or three friends or whatever, this is standard we accept.
• 1:14:34
  Speaker 1: Because once you get every single bloke holding there at
• 1:14:39
  Speaker 1: one or two mates accountable, that's how you get large
• 1:14:42
  Speaker 1: social change. Because this podcast one doesn't it doesn't matter
• 1:14:47
  Speaker 1: even if your listeners were one hundred percent male, you're
• 1:14:50
  Speaker 1: only getting x amount of you know what I mean?
• 1:14:53
  Speaker 2: And we're better off going to four percent of our
• 1:14:55
  Speaker 2: one hundred then zero percent of our.
• 1:14:57
  Speaker 1: Absolutely, yes, yes, because then those four percent, as I said,
• 1:15:00
  Speaker 1: then they go and hold two or three of their
• 1:15:02
  Speaker 1: friends accountable, and then that's how you like, hopefully those
• 1:15:05
  Speaker 1: dominoes start to fall in effect. So you absolutely correct, Like,
• 1:15:09
  Speaker 1: just because it's only four percent, man, that doesn't make
• 1:15:12
  Speaker 1: it any less important.
• 1:15:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah, take your headphones on.
• 1:15:15
  Speaker 3: Let's see what should I I'll preface this segment obviously
• 1:15:18
  Speaker 3: call them, and then we'll say we're here with Luke Bateman,
• 1:15:20
  Speaker 3: and do you want to ask could you please sign
• 1:15:22
  Speaker 3: off the episode? And you can say you can say
• 1:15:24
  Speaker 3: a quote, you can say a riddle, you can say
• 1:15:26
  Speaker 3: whatever you want.
• 1:15:26
  Speaker 2: We've recently been asking for riddles. They might not all have.
• 1:15:29
  Speaker 2: We'll throw it to you. We're going to throw it
• 1:15:32
  Speaker 2: to Luke.
• 1:15:34
  Speaker 1: Addle.
• 1:15:35
  Speaker 2: You could just be like a quote. So if we
• 1:15:37
  Speaker 2: say like we're here with Luke Bateman and he's got
• 1:15:39
  Speaker 2: a question for you, maybe yeah, and so they'll answer
• 1:15:42
  Speaker 2: checking out from the labels, we're here of Luke Bitman
• 1:15:44
  Speaker 2: and he's got a question for you. And then you
• 1:15:46
  Speaker 2: can just be like, hey, we'll sell you her name
• 1:15:48
  Speaker 2: and we'll be like, hey, can you please sign off
• 1:15:49
  Speaker 2: the episode? See what they say? Okay about it. Once
• 1:15:52
  Speaker 2: again he's hit us with something very insightful, something to
• 1:15:56
  Speaker 2: think about. Let us know what you think. One more thing.
• 1:15:58
  Speaker 2: This is the last thing we're going to this are
• 1:16:00
  Speaker 2: you going to end on this, and so I asked
• 1:16:03
  Speaker 2: him a question. So, when we were talking about val
• 1:16:05
  Speaker 2: scans women and we were on the topic of, you know,
• 1:16:09
  Speaker 2: what's the best thing that we can do to a
• 1:16:12
  Speaker 2: friend that we have found out, is you know, being
• 1:16:16
  Speaker 2: violent towards his girlfriend or wife, or maybe he is
• 1:16:20
  Speaker 2: not violent, but he's like, you know, yelling, shouting is
• 1:16:23
  Speaker 2: a shitty man, those type of things. You know, what,
• 1:16:25
  Speaker 2: fuck it just violence, you know, it's not changed topic.
• 1:16:28
  Speaker 2: He's violent. And so he said that casting them out
• 1:16:31
  Speaker 2: of the group and making them feel as though they're
• 1:16:34
  Speaker 2: not part of the group is what we should do.
• 1:16:37
  Speaker 2: And then I think I asked, like, oh, that is
• 1:16:40
  Speaker 2: obviously something that would work, but what about when like
• 1:16:45
  Speaker 2: it's like you're not kind, like you're calling him out,
• 1:16:49
  Speaker 2: you don't know it's stopping. Yeah, but like yeah, so
• 1:16:51
  Speaker 2: it's like you don't know if it's going to be stopping.
• 1:16:52
  Speaker 2: And that's almost kind of like turning a blind die
• 1:16:54
  Speaker 2: by being like, well, we don't want to be friends
• 1:16:56
  Speaker 2: with you. And then he thought about that, and I
• 1:16:59
  Speaker 2: don't think we spoke too much into it after that,
• 1:17:01
  Speaker 2: But this is from a text message you sent us
• 1:17:05
  Speaker 2: from about two days after it, and he sent us
• 1:17:07
  Speaker 2: a really good text message and he thought about it
• 1:17:09
  Speaker 2: more so I'm going to read it to you, he said, boys,
• 1:17:12
  Speaker 2: thinking back to a question from yesterday. So this is
• 1:17:14
  Speaker 2: the day after around what to do with the mate
• 1:17:16
  Speaker 2: who is being disrespectful slash abusive to women, and that
• 1:17:20
  Speaker 2: casting them out may not be the best course. I
• 1:17:22
  Speaker 2: think it needs to be an invitation towards something like that,
• 1:17:25
  Speaker 2: not calling them out, but calling them in saying hey,
• 1:17:28
  Speaker 2: we're your mates and we love you. If you want
• 1:17:30
  Speaker 2: to join us over here, we would love that more
• 1:17:32
  Speaker 2: than anything. But until you're ready to join us to
• 1:17:36
  Speaker 2: learn to do better, we can't be friends. And that's
• 1:17:39
  Speaker 2: a great way to say to set the boundary while
• 1:17:42
  Speaker 2: not casting someone out. Just been thinking about that and
• 1:17:45
  Speaker 2: had to share. We also need to be brave enough
• 1:17:47
  Speaker 2: as men to be okay to stand in that place,
• 1:17:50
  Speaker 2: even if it means we have no friends, because slowly
• 1:17:53
  Speaker 2: the tide is turning and eventually there will be more
• 1:17:56
  Speaker 2: of us than not. And then he said, ted talk xx.
• 1:18:00
  Speaker 3: Which is good too because it gives like a tangible
• 1:18:02
  Speaker 3: step first before casting of course.
• 1:18:05
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, and like you're giving someone the chance
• 1:18:08
  Speaker 2: to want to.
• 1:18:09
  Speaker 3: Do better because we talked a lot about like you're
• 1:18:13
  Speaker 3: talking to death ears, like a lot of these men
• 1:18:14
  Speaker 3: don't want to change, yeah, exactly, Whereas with that you're
• 1:18:18
  Speaker 3: kind of reaching out your hand and saying, hey, this
• 1:18:20
  Speaker 3: is how you should be and hopefully they recognize that first,
• 1:18:24
  Speaker 3: and then if they don't you then all you can
• 1:18:26
  Speaker 3: do is say, mate, I'm not going to be friends
• 1:18:28
  Speaker 3: of you.
• 1:18:28
  Speaker 2: Exactly. Yeah, that's unacceptable. You actually have done, you know,
• 1:18:32
  Speaker 2: everything you can do, apart from, of course, you know,
• 1:18:35
  Speaker 2: maybe getting authorities involved like that type of thing. Yeah,
• 1:18:39
  Speaker 2: so that is our ted talk.
• 1:18:43
  Speaker 3: Yeah, that's it, and it was a pleasure to have
• 1:18:45
  Speaker 3: Luke Battman on board. Sick If you like it, he's
• 1:18:48
  Speaker 3: coming back. He's coming back for sure.
• 1:18:49
  Speaker 2: He's definitely coming back. Thanks Buddie's Leah