Latest / Beyond The Horizon / Mega Edition: Family Members Of The Victims In Moscow Push For More Access (9/14/26)

Transcript

Mega Edition: Family Members Of The Victims In Moscow Push For More Access (9/14/26) · Beyond The Horizon

• 0:01
  Speaker 1: Welcome back to the program. When it comes to transparency
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: from the court, I am usually in favor of the
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: courts being as transparent as possible. Why? Well, I don't
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: really trust the government to always do the right thing.
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: When you take a look at the way people have
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: been railroaded throughout history, it's always a good idea for
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: the public to have access to what's going on inside
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: of a courtroom. However, there has to be a limit
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: to that, right? You can't just have access to every
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: bit of information as the public, especially if it's going
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: to destroy the integrity of the case or of the trial.
• 0:44
  Speaker 1: So there has to be that fine line that is
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: walked by the government when they're navigating issues such as these.
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: And for Judge Marshall to issue the second gag order,
• 0:56
  Speaker 1: the sweeping gag order, She might run into some trouble
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: with that one. And there are some legal professors that
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: we're going to hear from in this article who are
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: talking about that very thing and how it might be
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: an issue for Judge Marshall, considering that the media organizations
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: have now come together and they're trying to get that
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: restrictive gag order knocked back a bit. So it's going
• 1:21
  Speaker 1: to be interesting to see how it all plays out
• 1:23
  Speaker 1: and who ends up winning this tug of war. Today
• 1:27
  Speaker 1: we have an article from Insider. Headline, a new gag
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: order in the Idaho murders case effectively silences the victim's families.
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: And as the court or the prosecution, the last thing
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: you ever want to do is to be seen as
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: silencing the families. The family should have, you know, the
• 1:46
  Speaker 1: ability to talk about pretty much whatever they want. As
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: long as they're not, you know, attacking the integrity of
• 1:53
  Speaker 1: the case. And as long as officials... prosecutors, lawyers, clerks,
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: anyone involved doesn't give the family any information they shouldn't have,
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: then it shouldn't be a problem. So when you have
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: one of these large in scope orders, like the gag
• 2:12
  Speaker 1: order we see now, it's going to cause a bit
• 2:15
  Speaker 1: of friction. There's no doubt about it. This article was
• 2:20
  Speaker 1: authored by Michelle Mark and Haven Arequio-Agritz. The Idaho judge
• 2:28
  Speaker 1: overseeing the case against Brian Koberger, the suspect accused of
• 2:31
  Speaker 1: fatally stabbing four University of Idaho students last year, expanded
• 2:36
  Speaker 1: her gag order on Wednesday, forbidding attorneys representing victims, victims' families,
• 2:42
  Speaker 1: and witnesses from speaking publicly about the case. So they
• 2:46
  Speaker 1: can't speak about, you know, what's going on in the
• 2:49
  Speaker 1: case as far as if they think he's guilty, if
• 2:52
  Speaker 1: they think he's innocent, stuff like that. But they can
• 2:55
  Speaker 1: talk about the memories of their loved ones if they want.
• 2:59
  Speaker 1: You know, Kaylee loved XX and X. Ethan was really
• 3:04
  Speaker 1: having fun doing, you know, this activity. That sort of
• 3:07
  Speaker 1: thing will be fine under this gag order. But they
• 3:10
  Speaker 1: can't come out and lambaste Brian Koberger or go after
• 3:15
  Speaker 1: the actual case itself. Because that's part of this sweeping
• 3:20
  Speaker 1: gag order. And that's why there's people that have issues
• 3:23
  Speaker 1: with this sort of thing. As far as it's stepping
• 3:27
  Speaker 1: on the First Amendment, at what point do we say
• 3:30
  Speaker 1: as a society that a judge has that much power? Now,
• 3:35
  Speaker 1: of course, this is a unique situation. And I think
• 3:38
  Speaker 1: that a gag order of some sort is probably a
• 3:42
  Speaker 1: good way to go here. But this overreaching gag order
• 3:46
  Speaker 1: that we see here, the second one, the amended one,
• 3:49
  Speaker 1: I think it's a bit of an overreach, honestly, by
• 3:52
  Speaker 1: the court. And I think that with this challenge, we
• 3:55
  Speaker 1: might see some alterations to the amended order and get
• 4:00
  Speaker 1: another amended order that will reduce the scope of what
• 4:05
  Speaker 1: the gag order can be. Remember, the Supreme Court has
• 4:07
  Speaker 1: said that a gag order has to be the least
• 4:10
  Speaker 1: restrictive pathway that they can possibly come up with. And
• 4:14
  Speaker 1: this doesn't seem like it's the least restrictive pathway to me. Kohlberger, 28,
• 4:20
  Speaker 1: faces four first-degree murder charges in the deaths of Kaylee Gonsalves,
• 4:25
  Speaker 1: Madison Mogan, Zanna Kernodle, and Ethan Chapin. Attorneys for the
• 4:30
  Speaker 1: students' families have been outspoken about the case, responding to
• 4:34
  Speaker 1: media inquiries, issuing statements, and even weighing in on major
• 4:39
  Speaker 1: developments like Kohlberger's arrest and the release of police documents. Well,
• 4:44
  Speaker 1: I wouldn't say all of them have been outspoken, But
• 4:47
  Speaker 1: the Gonsalves family, for sure. And certainly Shannon Gray, their lawyer,
• 4:52
  Speaker 1: who was holding the police's feet to the fire. So
• 4:55
  Speaker 1: definitely they've been outspoken. But I wouldn't say that the
• 4:58
  Speaker 1: other families, especially the Chapin family, we haven't heard anything
• 5:03
  Speaker 1: really from them. So I think it would be more
• 5:05
  Speaker 1: accurate to say that the Gonsalves family's lawyer, Shannon Gray,
• 5:10
  Speaker 1: because he has been the one who has been the
• 5:12
  Speaker 1: most outspoken. But Judge Megan Marshall's newly amended gag order
• 5:17
  Speaker 1: bars any attorney representing a witness, victim, or victim's family
• 5:22
  Speaker 1: from making any comments about the case that go beyond
• 5:25
  Speaker 1: quoting or referring to official public records. The order had
• 5:30
  Speaker 1: previously only applied to prosecutors and Koberger's defense attorney. The
• 5:35
  Speaker 1: attorneys are now not even permitted to speak publicly about
• 5:39
  Speaker 1: the character of the victims. So, that's a little crazy. right?
• 5:45
  Speaker 1: The attorneys can't even speak about the character of the victims.
• 5:48
  Speaker 1: I mean, that's a little bit too much in my opinion. Look,
• 5:52
  Speaker 1: you have to find that fine line. And I'm certainly
• 5:54
  Speaker 1: not qualified to sit in that courtroom and figure it out.
• 5:59
  Speaker 1: But there has to be a less restrictive way where
• 6:02
  Speaker 1: we can maintain the integrity of the trial, maintain Brian
• 6:07
  Speaker 1: Koberger's rights as the accused person here. And also at
• 6:11
  Speaker 1: the same time, maintaining a very, very important aspect of
• 6:15
  Speaker 1: all of this, which is the First Amendment. So it's
• 6:19
  Speaker 1: up to Judge Marshall to toe that line. And with
• 6:23
  Speaker 1: this new gag order, I don't really think she's doing
• 6:26
  Speaker 1: a good job of that, at least right here. Though
• 6:30
  Speaker 1: the order does not explicitly bar a victim or a
• 6:33
  Speaker 1: victim's relative from speaking publicly about the case, some relatives
• 6:38
  Speaker 1: of the victims have relied on their attorneys as spokespeople
• 6:41
  Speaker 1: using them to navigate the media frenzy on their behalves. So,
• 6:46
  Speaker 1: in other words, once again, they're inferring to the Gonsalves
• 6:49
  Speaker 1: family and Shannon Gray, because he's the only lawyer for
• 6:54
  Speaker 1: any of the victims that has been front and center.
• 6:58
  Speaker 1: So they're definitely talking about Shannon Gray. But I will
• 7:01
  Speaker 1: tell you this, if you think Mr. Gonsalves is going
• 7:04
  Speaker 1: to need somebody to speak for him, I highly doubt it.
• 7:08
  Speaker 1: And if Mr. Shannon Gray... Can't speak for the family.
• 7:12
  Speaker 1: You better damn well believe that Mr. Gonsalves is going
• 7:15
  Speaker 1: to continue talking about his daughter, at least from what
• 7:19
  Speaker 1: we have seen so far. He doesn't strike me as
• 7:21
  Speaker 1: the kind of guy that's not going to talk about
• 7:24
  Speaker 1: his daughter. Experts told Insider that judges across the country
• 7:30
  Speaker 1: have been increasingly liberal with issuing gag orders in criminal cases,
• 7:34
  Speaker 1: a practice some argue undermines attorneys' freedom of speech and
• 7:38
  Speaker 1: and shields the criminal justice system from public scrutiny. And
• 7:42
  Speaker 1: that's something we all have to be aware of, right?
• 7:44
  Speaker 1: Trust but verify. I don't know about you, but I
• 7:47
  Speaker 1: don't sit here and just trust the government to do
• 7:50
  Speaker 1: the right thing. The government's made up of people and people, unfortunately,
• 7:55
  Speaker 1: are untrustworthy sometimes. And that goes for people in the government, judges, whatever.
• 8:02
  Speaker 1: So it's very important that light is shined on all
• 8:05
  Speaker 1: of these cases and that the public has the ability
• 8:09
  Speaker 1: to have a peek at what's going on. You want
• 8:12
  Speaker 1: to make sure people aren't getting railroaded, right? You want
• 8:15
  Speaker 1: to make sure that the process is going the right direction,
• 8:19
  Speaker 1: and especially in these small little towns. Margaret Tarkington, a
• 8:26
  Speaker 1: law professor at Indiana University who specializes in the First
• 8:30
  Speaker 1: Amendment rights of lawyers, told Insider the judge in the
• 8:33
  Speaker 1: Koberger case was treading in murky waters with the inclusion
• 8:37
  Speaker 1: of the victim's attorneys. There's no doubt that that's pretty unique,
• 8:42
  Speaker 1: and I don't know how it's going to go over
• 8:45
  Speaker 1: when all is said and done. However, that is the
• 8:48
  Speaker 1: gag order as of now, and that is what the
• 8:50
  Speaker 1: court has ordered everybody to abide by. So my guess
• 8:54
  Speaker 1: is that Shannon Gray is going to abide by this order.
• 9:00
  Speaker 1: I think there's a very solid argument that it would
• 9:02
  Speaker 1: be unconstitutional to prohibit victims from making statements, Tarkington said,
• 9:07
  Speaker 1: that undermines the whole right to public access to criminal proceedings,
• 9:12
  Speaker 1: which is a foundational block in the U.S. justice system.
• 9:16
  Speaker 1: This idea that we will not have secret criminal proceedings.
• 9:20
  Speaker 1: And there's no doubt we need to make sure that
• 9:22
  Speaker 1: things are in secret. Anyone who followed the Jeffrey Epstein
• 9:26
  Speaker 1: case understands very much so that the courts are not
• 9:30
  Speaker 1: to just be trusted. Unfortunately, that's fantasy land shit. We
• 9:36
  Speaker 1: have to make sure we're on our toes as the
• 9:38
  Speaker 1: citizens and the populace and the taxpayers and make sure
• 9:43
  Speaker 1: that these dudes and these women are doing the right thing.
• 9:46
  Speaker 1: Because if not, forget it. It's going to be an
• 9:48
  Speaker 1: absolute shit show and there's going to be corruption. Now,
• 9:52
  Speaker 1: I'm not saying that's what's going on here, but I'm
• 9:54
  Speaker 1: talking about overall. It's very important that we, the people,
• 9:59
  Speaker 1: are able to... have a look at what's going on
• 10:02
  Speaker 1: inside of these criminal proceedings. It is a foundational block,
• 10:07
  Speaker 1: and it's something that has to be respected by the court.
• 10:12
  Speaker 1: While gag orders often prohibit prosecutors and defense attorneys from
• 10:16
  Speaker 1: speaking about their cases, It's unclear how common it is
• 10:20
  Speaker 1: for gag orders to target victims and their families. Not
• 10:23
  Speaker 1: very common, by the way. Not from my experience. Ken Paulson,
• 10:29
  Speaker 1: the director of the Free Speech Center at Middle Tennessee
• 10:32
  Speaker 1: State University, told Insider that while the practice was likely
• 10:36
  Speaker 1: not unprecedented, it would be hard to justify it in
• 10:39
  Speaker 1: this case. It's difficult to understand why. why the lawyers
• 10:43
  Speaker 1: for the victim's families should be deprived of their free
• 10:47
  Speaker 1: speech rights, particularly in a case in which the details
• 10:51
  Speaker 1: of the crime and identity of the accused are universally known,
• 10:55
  Speaker 1: Paulson said. So that once again takes me back, at
• 10:59
  Speaker 1: least in my opinion here, to the mad Greek. and
• 11:03
  Speaker 1: getting the leak about the Mad Greek, getting the leak
• 11:05
  Speaker 1: about Instagram, and that's Judge Marshall trying to get ahead
• 11:09
  Speaker 1: of it, and maybe being a bit overzealous with her reaction.
• 11:14
  Speaker 1: But it is interesting that it comes all in the
• 11:16
  Speaker 1: wake of those leaks or those rumors, whatever you want
• 11:20
  Speaker 1: to call them. The gag order also carries implications for
• 11:24
  Speaker 1: the news media attempting to cover the Idaho murders, according
• 11:28
  Speaker 1: to David Heller, deputy of the Media Law Resource Center.
• 11:32
  Speaker 1: While this order doesn't gag the press directly, it does
• 11:36
  Speaker 1: so more subtly by silencing all the sources of information
• 11:39
  Speaker 1: about the case, including most broadly the victim's representatives. Heller
• 11:44
  Speaker 1: told Insider, a fair trial is important, but so too
• 11:48
  Speaker 1: is vigorous press scrutiny of court proceedings. That is 100% correct.
• 11:55
  Speaker 1: Of course, making sure that a fair trial is had
• 12:00
  Speaker 1: is of the utmost importance. but we can't throw away
• 12:03
  Speaker 1: the rights of the people because we're, you know, going
• 12:06
  Speaker 1: to bend over backwards over a quote unquote fair trial.
• 12:11
  Speaker 1: Because guess what? It's not like the prosecutors are giving
• 12:15
  Speaker 1: out this information. We're talking about the representative for the
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: family who allegedly gave out some information or there's a
• 12:22
  Speaker 1: fear that they might give out information so much so
• 12:26
  Speaker 1: that judge Marshall came with this very broad information. Gag order?
• 12:31
  Speaker 1: And there's no way in my opinion that all of
• 12:33
  Speaker 1: this just happens to be a coincidence, meaning the timing.
• 12:38
  Speaker 1: He added that it's also uncommon to issue gag orders
• 12:41
  Speaker 1: before disputes over fair trial issues arise. John Bruschke, a
• 12:46
  Speaker 1: professor at California State University Fullerton, who studied pretrial publicity,
• 12:51
  Speaker 1: told Insider Research shows gag orders are often ineffective. The
• 12:57
  Speaker 1: vast majority of criminal defendants who go to trial are
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: convicted with or without the protection of a gag order.
• 13:04
  Speaker 1: So I think what they're trying to do, and again,
• 13:07
  Speaker 1: this is just my guess, folks, is they're trying to
• 13:09
  Speaker 1: avoid an appeal later on down the road saying, look,
• 13:13
  Speaker 1: he got a fair trial. Everything was on the up
• 13:15
  Speaker 1: and up. You can try and get your appeal, but
• 13:19
  Speaker 1: the appeals court is going to take a look at
• 13:20
  Speaker 1: everything and they're going to see that a you were
• 13:22
  Speaker 1: guilty and that the process was followed to a T.
• 13:27
  Speaker 1: That's what I hope that they're shooting for here, and
• 13:30
  Speaker 1: that's why they're trying to be so restrictive? Because there
• 13:33
  Speaker 1: shouldn't be any other reason than that, right? Much of
• 13:37
  Speaker 1: the pretrial publicity in a criminal case comes months or
• 13:41
  Speaker 1: even years before the trial begins, Brushke said. In Koberger's case,
• 13:45
  Speaker 1: his next hearing won't occur for another five months, and
• 13:48
  Speaker 1: a trial could take even longer to begin. Just imagine,
• 13:53
  Speaker 1: you have to sit through a trial that's going to
• 13:56
  Speaker 1: be six to nine months long, listening to expert after
• 13:59
  Speaker 1: expert and forensic specialists and science and a bunch of statistics,
• 14:03
  Speaker 1: and you don't understand. How likely is it that what's
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: really going to tip your decision in the end is
• 14:09
  Speaker 1: something you saw on the news three months before the
• 14:12
  Speaker 1: trial started? Bruschke said, human memory isn't that good. And
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: this is what I've been saying from the jump. I
• 14:19
  Speaker 1: think people are making a lot more out of this
• 14:22
  Speaker 1: than needs to be made. Whenever you have a trial
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: that has notoriety, there's going to be issues about a
• 14:28
  Speaker 1: fair trial and all of that. But why don't we
• 14:31
  Speaker 1: wait till we get to that phase? Let's wait till
• 14:34
  Speaker 1: we get to jury selection and see what the jury
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: pool looks like before we start firing off broad orders,
• 14:41
  Speaker 1: gagging people who should be able at the very least
• 14:44
  Speaker 1: to represent their clients. So For me, anyway, I think
• 14:49
  Speaker 1: the broad gag order that has been amended, the second
• 14:52
  Speaker 1: part of it, is not very good and not a
• 14:55
  Speaker 1: good idea. Now, do I think that some gag order
• 14:59
  Speaker 1: should probably be in place? Yeah. Do we need prosecutors
• 15:03
  Speaker 1: running around, piping off from the side of their neck? No.
• 15:07
  Speaker 1: Do we need his defense attorneys doing that? No. But
• 15:10
  Speaker 1: at the same time, the media certainly needs access to
• 15:14
  Speaker 1: what's going on and the public, well, We're entitled to
• 15:19
  Speaker 1: the inner workings of what's going on in that courtroom.
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: Maybe not the information, but we are entitled to the
• 15:25
  Speaker 1: inner workings of what's going on. And if this gag
• 15:28
  Speaker 1: order is going to restrict that, then my guess is
• 15:32
  Speaker 1: she's going to have to amend it again and come
• 15:35
  Speaker 1: up with something different. But we'll see where it all
• 15:37
  Speaker 1: goes and we'll see what happens with this gag order
• 15:40
  Speaker 1: in the days to come. All right, folks, that's going
• 15:43
  Speaker 1: to do it for this one. If you'd like to
• 15:45
  Speaker 1: contact me, you can do that at BobbyCapucci at ProtonMail.com.
• 15:50
  Speaker 1: That's B-O-B-B-Y-C-A-P-U-C-C-I at ProtonMail.com. You can also find me on
• 15:57
  Speaker 1: Twitter at B-O-B-B-Y underscore C-A-P-U-C-C-I. The link that I discussed
• 16:05
  Speaker 1: can be found in the description box. What's up, everyone,
• 16:10
  Speaker 1: and welcome back to the program. Today, we're going to
• 16:15
  Speaker 1: dive right back into some of the headlines that we
• 16:18
  Speaker 1: might have missed from overnight. And to do that, we're
• 16:22
  Speaker 1: once again going to use The Independent. Headline, Idaho murders.
• 16:28
  Speaker 1: Moscow police deny families are left in the dark as
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: university offers self-defense classes. Now, what in the hell are
• 16:37
  Speaker 1: self-defense classes going to do for you? These kids were
• 16:42
  Speaker 1: sleeping in their beds when they were murdered. And I
• 16:45
  Speaker 1: don't care if you're Gordon Ryan. If you're asleep in
• 16:48
  Speaker 1: your bed and someone comes in with a knife and
• 16:51
  Speaker 1: stabs you to death, no amount of self-defense training in
• 16:54
  Speaker 1: the world is going to put an end to that.
• 16:58
  Speaker 1: So it's a nice gesture and all on the part
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: of the university, but self-defense classes, really? This article was
• 17:05
  Speaker 1: authored by Rachel Sharp and Andrea Blanco. Police investigating the
• 17:13
  Speaker 1: unsolved murders of four University of Idaho students have denied
• 17:17
  Speaker 1: that the victim's families are being left in the dark
• 17:20
  Speaker 1: about the case. Moscow Police Chief James Fry told NBC
• 17:24
  Speaker 1: that officers are in communication with the four families daily
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: as he defended law enforcement's handling of the investigation. And
• 17:33
  Speaker 1: in our previous episode, we went into a little bit
• 17:35
  Speaker 1: more depth about James Fry in that interview that he
• 17:39
  Speaker 1: gave to NBC. And he had a lot to say
• 17:43
  Speaker 1: about the liaisons to the family, about how there's lines
• 17:46
  Speaker 1: of communication that have been open with the families since
• 17:49
  Speaker 1: day one. And that the families are certainly not being
• 17:54
  Speaker 1: left in the dark, at least according to Police Chief
• 17:58
  Speaker 1: James Fry. Every family wants a little bit different information.
• 18:03
  Speaker 1: And we have a liaison with each of the families
• 18:06
  Speaker 1: that we talk to them daily, he said. His comments
• 18:09
  Speaker 1: come after Kaylee Gonsalves' family voiced frustration with a lack
• 18:13
  Speaker 1: of communication from police and raised questions about the experience
• 18:17
  Speaker 1: of officers on the case. More than five weeks have
• 18:21
  Speaker 1: now passed since Gonsalves, Madison Mogan, Zanna Kernodle, and Ethan
• 18:25
  Speaker 1: Chapin were stabbed to death in their beds in Moscow
• 18:29
  Speaker 1: on November 13th. No arrests have been made and no
• 18:32
  Speaker 1: suspects have been named, with a promising lead about a
• 18:35
  Speaker 1: mystery car falling flat In recent days. Now, what exactly
• 18:40
  Speaker 1: made that a promising lead? Can somebody explain that to me?
• 18:43
  Speaker 1: Because there was a banged up car 500 miles away
• 18:46
  Speaker 1: that was the same make and model. All of a sudden,
• 18:49
  Speaker 1: it's part of this investigation. Now, obviously, the investigators, they
• 18:53
  Speaker 1: have to track this lead down and see what's what.
• 18:55
  Speaker 1: But a promising lead? I don't know if I would
• 18:58
  Speaker 1: have called it that. With the killer still at large,
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: the University of Idaho announced plans to offer self-defense, stalking awareness,
• 19:07
  Speaker 1: and vigilance courses to students returning to the college town
• 19:11
  Speaker 1: for the upcoming spring semester. And that's all fine and well.
• 19:15
  Speaker 1: It doesn't hurt to have some self-defense expertise, right? But
• 19:19
  Speaker 1: I don't know how that's going to help you if
• 19:21
  Speaker 1: you're asleep in your bed and some madman comes in
• 19:24
  Speaker 1: and stabs you to death. Moscow Police Department's past success
• 19:28
  Speaker 1: was solving crimes. The families of the four victims and
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: residents of the small college town are living in hope
• 19:34
  Speaker 1: that the murders will soon be solved. But there may
• 19:38
  Speaker 1: be one detail about the Moscow Police Department that gives
• 19:41
  Speaker 1: those searching for justice in the Idaho murders concern. Police
• 19:46
  Speaker 1: there tend to do far worse than their counterparts across
• 19:49
  Speaker 1: the state in solving crimes. And according to these numbers,
• 19:53
  Speaker 1: it's certainly not a good look for the Moscow police department, right?
• 19:57
  Speaker 1: It's not like they had these advanced investigations that they've
• 20:00
  Speaker 1: been looking to clear. We're talking about assaults, robberies, stuff
• 20:04
  Speaker 1: like that. And they're still doing worse than their counterparts
• 20:08
  Speaker 1: around the state. And that's not just my opinion. That's
• 20:11
  Speaker 1: what the numbers say. Up until the student killings, there
• 20:15
  Speaker 1: hadn't been a murder in Moscow since 2015. So it's
• 20:20
  Speaker 1: difficult to compare the department's homicide record to other agencies
• 20:23
  Speaker 1: around the state and country. However, generally speaking, Moscow police
• 20:29
  Speaker 1: only cleared about a quarter of group A crimes between
• 20:32
  Speaker 1: 2016 and 2021. According to the independence analysis of state data,
• 20:39
  Speaker 1: a broad category, which includes everything from murder to theft.
• 20:43
  Speaker 1: The state average during the same period was a clearance
• 20:46
  Speaker 1: rate of over 50%. So they were clearing at half
• 20:51
  Speaker 1: that rate in Moscow. So that certainly is not reassuring, right?
• 20:55
  Speaker 1: You have a police department, a small town police department
• 20:59
  Speaker 1: who is now dealing with a quadruple homicide. And they've
• 21:03
  Speaker 1: already only been able to clear a fraction of the
• 21:06
  Speaker 1: crimes in their city compared to the other districts around
• 21:09
  Speaker 1: the state. So when people have concerns and reservations and
• 21:15
  Speaker 1: those concerns and reservations are based in fact, I don't
• 21:19
  Speaker 1: really look at that as criticism of the police department.
• 21:23
  Speaker 1: It's just stating the facts. Now, does that mean that
• 21:26
  Speaker 1: they're not going to be able to solve this case?
• 21:28
  Speaker 1: Of course, that doesn't mean that. But we have to
• 21:30
  Speaker 1: take it into account. And we have to take an honest,
• 21:34
  Speaker 1: sober look at everything that's going on. Attorney for Victim's
• 21:41
  Speaker 1: Family says the community will solve the case. An attorney
• 21:45
  Speaker 1: representing the family of slain student Kaylee Gonsalves has said
• 21:49
  Speaker 1: that he thinks the community will solve the murder case.
• 21:52
  Speaker 1: I think that it'll be a tip from somewhere. Now,
• 21:55
  Speaker 1: I don't know if it'll be the community, and I
• 21:57
  Speaker 1: certainly don't think it's going to be the sleuthing community.
• 22:00
  Speaker 1: I think it's somebody that knows the killer. Eventually, something
• 22:04
  Speaker 1: will slip, somebody will know something, and somebody will give
• 22:07
  Speaker 1: a tip to the authorities if that's not already underway,
• 22:10
  Speaker 1: which is very possible. But the fact is, somebody out
• 22:15
  Speaker 1: there is going to know something at some point. Shannon
• 22:20
  Speaker 1: Gray told CNN that the Gonsalves family believes that the
• 22:23
  Speaker 1: more information law enforcement share with the public, the greater
• 22:26
  Speaker 1: the chances that the killer will be caught. That's a
• 22:29
  Speaker 1: fine line. I can't 100% agree with that because it
• 22:33
  Speaker 1: depends on what they're sharing. If it's something that has
• 22:37
  Speaker 1: to do with the actual inside of the investigation, then
• 22:40
  Speaker 1: that should not be shared. If the police are looking
• 22:43
  Speaker 1: for a car like a white Hyundai Elantra and they've
• 22:47
  Speaker 1: exhausted all of their avenues of research, then yes, they
• 22:51
  Speaker 1: should be reaching out to the public to try and
• 22:54
  Speaker 1: get help on locating that car. I think Steve and
• 23:00
  Speaker 1: I and the family think the community is going to
• 23:02
  Speaker 1: solve the crime, he said. And I think the more
• 23:05
  Speaker 1: they ask community to help and reach out to them,
• 23:08
  Speaker 1: then the better the investigation will move forward. He added,
• 23:12
  Speaker 1: that's why some of our questions in the past have
• 23:14
  Speaker 1: been about not reaching out soon enough. So moving forward,
• 23:18
  Speaker 1: they'll be able to get the resources they need and
• 23:20
  Speaker 1: move forward to solve this crime. Investigators working to track
• 23:24
  Speaker 1: down the killer of the four students have kept several
• 23:27
  Speaker 1: details about the case under wraps, including why the murders
• 23:31
  Speaker 1: were thought to be targeted. This decision has pitted law
• 23:35
  Speaker 1: enforcement against the Gonzalez family, who have spoken out about
• 23:39
  Speaker 1: several details to the media. And again, where did they
• 23:43
  Speaker 1: get those details? Did they just whip them up out
• 23:45
  Speaker 1: of thin air? Or did somebody tell them that stuff?
• 23:50
  Speaker 1: And when I say somebody, I'm looking directly at the
• 23:53
  Speaker 1: coroner who's not even a medical doctor. That's a whole
• 23:56
  Speaker 1: nother conversation for another time. But how is it that
• 23:59
  Speaker 1: these coroners around the country aren't even medical doctors, really?
• 24:03
  Speaker 1: So you mean to tell me that my dumb ass
• 24:05
  Speaker 1: can become a coroner? I don't get it. You should
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: have to have some kind of medical training to be
• 24:11
  Speaker 1: a coroner, no? Victim's father doesn't think mystery vehicle is
• 24:17
  Speaker 1: still in Moscow. The father of slain student, Kaylee Gonsalves,
• 24:22
  Speaker 1: has said that he doesn't believe the mystery vehicle spotted
• 24:26
  Speaker 1: near the student home at the time of the murders
• 24:28
  Speaker 1: is still in Moscow. Neither do I. I have a
• 24:32
  Speaker 1: feeling that this vehicle is long gone and probably destroyed
• 24:36
  Speaker 1: by now. I can't tell you how many cars burnt out, destroyed,
• 24:41
  Speaker 1: and just absolutely jacked up I've come across in my
• 24:44
  Speaker 1: hikes down here in the Southwest. I live in Nevada,
• 24:48
  Speaker 1: Las Vegas, and there's destroyed cars all over the place
• 24:52
  Speaker 1: in the desert. So there's plenty of places for somebody
• 24:55
  Speaker 1: to take a car and get rid of it. Never
• 24:58
  Speaker 1: mind just pulling it into a garage. Year after year.
• 25:02
  Speaker 1: For the last two weeks, the investigation has zeroed in
• 25:05
  Speaker 1: on the search for the occupant or occupants of a
• 25:08
  Speaker 1: white Hyundai Elantra seen near the scene of the murders
• 25:11
  Speaker 1: in the early hours of November 13th. Investigators believe that
• 25:15
  Speaker 1: the individual or individuals in the car, which is a
• 25:19
  Speaker 1: model from 2011 to 2013, has an unknown license plate,
• 25:24
  Speaker 1: may have critical information to share regarding this case, and
• 25:28
  Speaker 1: are asking for the public's help in tracking them down.
• 25:32
  Speaker 1: Border agents along the U.S. border with Canada have been
• 25:35
  Speaker 1: notified to be on the lookout for the car, and
• 25:38
  Speaker 1: tips have been pouring in from the public. And there
• 25:41
  Speaker 1: has been a ton of tips coming in. How many
• 25:45
  Speaker 1: of them have been worthwhile? I have no idea. But
• 25:48
  Speaker 1: that's neither here nor there, in my opinion. Like any
• 25:51
  Speaker 1: other mystery, I think the more details, the better. So far,
• 25:55
  Speaker 1: police have identified around 22,000 vehicles that fit the description
• 26:00
  Speaker 1: of the vehicle and are combing through the information for clues.
• 26:04
  Speaker 1: Steve Gonsalves told CNN on Wednesday that he is glad
• 26:07
  Speaker 1: police are appealing to the public to help track down
• 26:10
  Speaker 1: the mystery car. I'm glad that they're reaching out and
• 26:14
  Speaker 1: they're asking for the community to look for this car,
• 26:16
  Speaker 1: he said. I don't think it's in this town anymore,
• 26:18
  Speaker 1: so they can only work in that county. So sometimes
• 26:21
  Speaker 1: you've got to reach out. That's where the FBI comes in.
• 26:24
  Speaker 1: They have the ability, obviously, to work across state lines
• 26:28
  Speaker 1: and logistically speaking, put it together with local municipalities to
• 26:32
  Speaker 1: make things move in a smoother manner. So that's certainly
• 26:35
  Speaker 1: a good thing with the FBI being involved here. And
• 26:38
  Speaker 1: there's plenty of other reasons why it's good that the
• 26:41
  Speaker 1: FBI is here as well, right? Because this is something
• 26:45
  Speaker 1: that even a big city would be hard pressed with
• 26:49
  Speaker 1: a quadruple murder like this. Never mind a small town
• 26:52
  Speaker 1: like Moscow. Investigators are following every lead, experts says. More
• 26:59
  Speaker 1: than five weeks have now passed since the four University
• 27:02
  Speaker 1: of Idaho students were brutally murdered in their beds and
• 27:05
  Speaker 1: no arrests have been made and no suspects have been named.
• 27:09
  Speaker 1: Ted Williams, a former Washington, D.C. homicide detective, told Fox
• 27:13
  Speaker 1: News Digital that he is confident investigators in the case
• 27:17
  Speaker 1: are following every lead. Absolutely. I'm certainly not somebody who
• 27:21
  Speaker 1: thinks the investigators don't care or they're not doing their job.
• 27:26
  Speaker 1: I know for a fact that they're working hard on
• 27:28
  Speaker 1: the ground. And I know that everybody involved, as far
• 27:31
  Speaker 1: as investigators and police officers and FBI agents, whoever, they
• 27:36
  Speaker 1: all want to see justice in this case. It's important
• 27:40
  Speaker 1: when you're doing a murder investigation to run down each
• 27:43
  Speaker 1: and every lead that may lead to the killer, Mr.
• 27:45
  Speaker 1: Williams said. In this instance, even though this vehicle in
• 27:49
  Speaker 1: Oregon was some 700 miles away from Moscow, Idaho, they
• 27:53
  Speaker 1: still had an obligation to look at that vehicle since
• 27:55
  Speaker 1: it fit the description of a vehicle that they were
• 27:58
  Speaker 1: looking for. And look, he's not wrong about that. You
• 28:01
  Speaker 1: have to exhaust every lead. But it never struck me
• 28:04
  Speaker 1: that the Elantra that was found up in Eugene had
• 28:07
  Speaker 1: anything to do with this investigation. My guess is if
• 28:11
  Speaker 1: somebody did get rid of that car, it's burned out already.
• 28:15
  Speaker 1: Why would you just leave it with all of that
• 28:17
  Speaker 1: evidence available still inside of it? So my guess is
• 28:20
  Speaker 1: we're never going to find this Hyundai Elantra. Now, I
• 28:23
  Speaker 1: hope that we do, but it's like looking for a
• 28:26
  Speaker 1: needle in the haystack here. With all of the different
• 28:28
  Speaker 1: Elantras that are out there in circulation, the same model,
• 28:33
  Speaker 1: the same color. It's going to be very difficult to
• 28:36
  Speaker 1: track it down unless the authorities get a good tip
• 28:38
  Speaker 1: from somebody. And that's what I'm expecting eventually. Somebody to
• 28:43
  Speaker 1: have some information to give it to the investigators. And
• 28:46
  Speaker 1: then hopefully we get to see an arrest here and
• 28:50
  Speaker 1: we get to see some justice. All right, folks, that's
• 28:53
  Speaker 1: going to do it for the morning update. Obviously, there
• 28:55
  Speaker 1: is a lot more on the way today. So as
• 28:58
  Speaker 1: the information becomes available, we'll get it added to the catalog.
• 29:02
  Speaker 1: If you'd like to contact me, you can do that
• 29:04
  Speaker 1: at BobbyCapucci at ProtonMail.com. That's B-O-B-B-Y-C-A-P-U-C-C-I at ProtonMail.com. You can
• 29:14
  Speaker 1: also find me on Twitter at B-O-B-B-Y underscore C-A-P-U-C-C-I. The
• 29:21
  Speaker 1: link that I discussed can be found in the description box.
• 29:25
  Speaker 1: What's up, everyone, and welcome back to the program. As
• 29:29
  Speaker 1: we look back on the past year, since the murders
• 29:32
  Speaker 1: in Moscow occurred, a lot has transpired as far as
• 29:36
  Speaker 1: the investigation goes. But for the family members... of Zanna, Ethan, Madison,
• 29:42
  Speaker 1: and Kaylee, things are never going to be the same.
• 29:45
  Speaker 1: So in today's episode, we're going to hear how Ethan
• 29:48
  Speaker 1: Chapin's fraternity is honoring him. And we're also going to
• 29:52
  Speaker 1: hear from Madison Mogan's father, Ben Mogan, about how he's
• 29:56
  Speaker 1: feeling about a year into this absolute tragedy. We're going
• 30:01
  Speaker 1: to start off with the article from Fox News dealing
• 30:05
  Speaker 1: with Ethan Chapin and how his fraternity is honoring his memory. Headline,
• 30:11
  Speaker 1: Idaho murder victim Ethan Chapin honored by fraternity as family
• 30:15
  Speaker 1: marks one year since slaying. This article was authored by
• 30:20
  Speaker 1: Michael Ruiz. One year has passed since the slaying of
• 30:25
  Speaker 1: four promising young University of Idaho students that rocked the
• 30:29
  Speaker 1: campus in Moscow, Idaho, and made shockwaves across the country.
• 30:34
  Speaker 1: Now the family of one of the victims is reflecting
• 30:37
  Speaker 1: on the charitable work done in his honor. The University
• 30:42
  Speaker 1: of Idaho's Sigma Chi chapter, of which slain student Ethan
• 30:45
  Speaker 1: Chapin was a member, has given the first memorial scholarship
• 30:50
  Speaker 1: in his honor to his brother, Hunter. His parents are
• 30:54
  Speaker 1: hosting a fundraising gala for their own scholarship fund on
• 30:57
  Speaker 1: the one-year mark, and his triplet brother and sister are
• 31:00
  Speaker 1: still studying at the school. Can you imagine what it's
• 31:04
  Speaker 1: like for his brother and his sister? Them being triplets,
• 31:07
  Speaker 1: them still going to the same school, his brother in
• 31:10
  Speaker 1: the same fraternity, that's a lot. And thankfully for the
• 31:15
  Speaker 1: Chapin family, they seem to be a pretty close unit.
• 31:18
  Speaker 1: And when you have that kind of family support behind you,
• 31:22
  Speaker 1: there really isn't much that you can't overcome. Now, does
• 31:25
  Speaker 1: that mean it's going to be easy? Of course not.
• 31:28
  Speaker 1: Think about losing your brother or your sister, God forbid,
• 31:31
  Speaker 1: and then think about how you would try and navigate
• 31:34
  Speaker 1: your life without that person. The person that you always
• 31:38
  Speaker 1: went to when something was wrong, the person you got
• 31:40
  Speaker 1: advice from, the person you looked up to, whatever. Now
• 31:44
  Speaker 1: they're gone forever and all you have left are memories.
• 31:48
  Speaker 1: And now think about that being one of your siblings
• 31:51
  Speaker 1: who is a triplet or a twin or something like that.
• 31:54
  Speaker 1: It's just mortifying to think about. Ethan and Hunter, along
• 31:58
  Speaker 1: with Sister Maisie, are triplets whose 21st birthday was last month.
• 32:03
  Speaker 1: All three enrolled at the university together, and both brothers
• 32:07
  Speaker 1: joined Sigma Chi. Their parents, Stacy and Jim, traveled from
• 32:11
  Speaker 1: Washington State to Moscow, Idaho last week. On Monday, exactly
• 32:16
  Speaker 1: one year after the murders, The family is hosting a
• 32:19
  Speaker 1: black tie fundraising gala to help future students achieve their
• 32:23
  Speaker 1: academic goals after Ethan's were cut short. And I've said
• 32:27
  Speaker 1: this before, and I'll say it again. What better way
• 32:30
  Speaker 1: to honor somebody in perpetuity than doing something like this,
• 32:35
  Speaker 1: using their name, their memory, and turning their tragedy into
• 32:39
  Speaker 1: something that positively affects people in such a way as
• 32:43
  Speaker 1: offering them a way to afford an education. So in
• 32:47
  Speaker 1: my opinion, that's the perfect way to go about honoring
• 32:50
  Speaker 1: somebody like Ethan Chapin. The family also released a series
• 32:54
  Speaker 1: of previously unshared photographs recovered from Ethan's computer, showing him
• 32:59
  Speaker 1: enjoying a day on the boat, vacationing with family, and more.
• 33:03
  Speaker 1: That has to be heartbreaking. Imagine you're sitting around. You
• 33:07
  Speaker 1: get that phone call. Then after all of the dust
• 33:09
  Speaker 1: starts to settle... They release his belongings back to you.
• 33:13
  Speaker 1: And as a parent, you go through the computer and
• 33:15
  Speaker 1: you see these pictures. I would be a blubbering mess.
• 33:18
  Speaker 1: Never mind facing this the way that these parents have
• 33:21
  Speaker 1: courageously taken this on. I have a lot of respect
• 33:25
  Speaker 1: for the way that these parents have handled themselves. Because
• 33:28
  Speaker 1: this is a nightmare scenario that nobody could ever possibly
• 33:32
  Speaker 1: even think about navigating. Ethan majored in sports and tourism
• 33:37
  Speaker 1: management and would have graduated in the class of 2025.
• 33:42
  Speaker 1: The university awarded him a posthumous degree at the commencement
• 33:46
  Speaker 1: ceremony in the spring. In a surprise twist at the ceremony,
• 33:51
  Speaker 1: the Sigma Chi Foundation also recognized Chapin's mother, Stacy Chapin,
• 33:56
  Speaker 1: with an honor that had previously been reserved only for
• 33:59
  Speaker 1: members and alumni. Well, that's a solid move on their
• 34:02
  Speaker 1: part and a real classy thing to do. Her family
• 34:06
  Speaker 1: was the charity's largest donor when accounting for separate donations
• 34:10
  Speaker 1: from Maisie and from Ethan's own checking account, helping Sigma
• 34:14
  Speaker 1: Chi endow the fund so it can award scholarships annually
• 34:18
  Speaker 1: going forward. He would have thought that was the greatest
• 34:22
  Speaker 1: thing ever, Stacey Chapin told Fox News Digital. A Sigma
• 34:26
  Speaker 1: Chi fraternity member will receive a $ 5, 000 scholarship at the
• 34:30
  Speaker 1: University of Idaho every year in perpetuity as a result,
• 34:34
  Speaker 1: she said. So think about that. Moving forward, even though
• 34:38
  Speaker 1: Ethan might be gone, his legacy is going to live on,
• 34:42
  Speaker 1: not only in the hearts and the minds of his
• 34:43
  Speaker 1: family and his friends, but in all of these kids
• 34:47
  Speaker 1: that his name and his tragedy are going to help
• 34:51
  Speaker 1: in the future. The fraternity established the Ethan Chapin Memorial
• 34:55
  Speaker 1: Scholarship Fund just days after the slayings rocked the campus community,
• 34:59
  Speaker 1: declaring they would present it to an undergraduate member once
• 35:03
  Speaker 1: a year. So far, the chapter has raised more than $ 125, 000. Separately,
• 35:10
  Speaker 1: the Chapin family has also established the Memorial Scholarship Foundation
• 35:14
  Speaker 1: in his honor, Ethan Smile, to provide financial assistance for
• 35:18
  Speaker 1: students from his hometown of Skagit Valley, Washington, attending the
• 35:22
  Speaker 1: University of Idaho. The university is also working on a
• 35:27
  Speaker 1: memorial garden, which Stacey Chapin said will be designed by
• 35:30
  Speaker 1: architecture students already on campus. That's awesome. That is really cool.
• 35:36
  Speaker 1: Give it that local flair. Let alumni do it. You know,
• 35:38
  Speaker 1: kids that are there already. And let's make sure that
• 35:42
  Speaker 1: it's done with the proper care and the proper attention
• 35:45
  Speaker 1: that it deserves. Because this might be a tragedy that,
• 35:48
  Speaker 1: you know, all of us have been following. This is
• 35:51
  Speaker 1: a tragedy that people in Moscow, especially, they've had to
• 35:54
  Speaker 1: live through it. So that Memorial Garden should be representative
• 35:58
  Speaker 1: of what they went through and the healing process that
• 36:01
  Speaker 1: is still ongoing. The parents met with those students when
• 36:04
  Speaker 1: they were visiting last week, she said. Jim and I
• 36:08
  Speaker 1: gave the gift of education to our kids with the
• 36:10
  Speaker 1: intent that they could stand on their own two feet
• 36:13
  Speaker 1: one day, Stacey Chapin wrote on Instagram Thursday, where she
• 36:17
  Speaker 1: shared Ethan's old photos. With that in mind, we created
• 36:21
  Speaker 1: the Ethan Smiles Foundation to provide scholarships to post-high school
• 36:25
  Speaker 1: kids so that they can follow their dreams. Better yet,
• 36:29
  Speaker 1: kids receive the scholarship in Ethan's name, and we can't
• 36:32
  Speaker 1: think of a better way to honor him. The fraternity
• 36:35
  Speaker 1: house on Greek Row is about 200-yard walk from the
• 36:38
  Speaker 1: King Road crime scene, where police found Ethan, his girlfriend
• 36:42
  Speaker 1: Zanna Kernodle, and her two housemates, Kaylee Gonsalves and Madison Mogan,
• 36:47
  Speaker 1: dead on November 13th of 2022. After a weeks-long investigation,
• 36:54
  Speaker 1: police arrested Brian Kohlberger, a 28-year-old criminology Ph.D. student from
• 36:59
  Speaker 1: the neighboring Washington State University, at his parents' house in Pennsylvania.
• 37:05
  Speaker 1: A judge entered not guilty pleas on his behalf in
• 37:07
  Speaker 1: May on four charges of first-degree murder and another of
• 37:11
  Speaker 1: felony burglary. He could face the death penalty if convicted.
• 37:15
  Speaker 1: He is being held without bail at the Latah County
• 37:18
  Speaker 1: Jail in Moscow, Idaho. All right, so let's move on
• 37:23
  Speaker 1: to our next article. And this article is from KREM
• 37:28
  Speaker 1: Channel 2. Headline, I wouldn't be here without her. How
• 37:32
  Speaker 1: Ben Mogan is moving forward one year after his daughter's death.
• 37:36
  Speaker 1: That has to be surreal to even read that for
• 37:39
  Speaker 1: Ben Mogan. Imagine going home and reading that headline and
• 37:42
  Speaker 1: then saying to yourself, holy shit, this is my reality.
• 37:46
  Speaker 1: This isn't some movie. This isn't a David Fincher film
• 37:49
  Speaker 1: on Netflix. This is my reality. And I have to
• 37:52
  Speaker 1: figure out a way to navigate through all this and
• 37:55
  Speaker 1: figure out my new normal. And unfortunately for all of
• 37:59
  Speaker 1: these parents of all of these murdered kids, that's what
• 38:02
  Speaker 1: they have to do now. This article was authored by
• 38:06
  Speaker 1: Tim Pham. and Nicole Hernandez. Madison Maddie Mogan has always
• 38:12
  Speaker 1: been her dad's angel, before and after her tragic and
• 38:16
  Speaker 1: untimely death. Ben Mogan has spent the last year with
• 38:20
  Speaker 1: his family talking about the monumental impact his daughter had
• 38:24
  Speaker 1: on everyone and everything. He's also spent the last year
• 38:28
  Speaker 1: trying his hardest to live his life the way she
• 38:31
  Speaker 1: would want him to, and I think that's the best
• 38:33
  Speaker 1: way you can honor somebody that has gone before you
• 38:36
  Speaker 1: Just try and live your best life, right? Do the
• 38:39
  Speaker 1: best you can so that you would think that they'd
• 38:41
  Speaker 1: be proud of you. And for Ben Mogan, his motivation
• 38:45
  Speaker 1: moving forward, obviously, and hopefully, is to do just that.
• 38:50
  Speaker 1: Having her in my life got me through a lot
• 38:52
  Speaker 1: of dark moments, he said. She is my little angel.
• 38:55
  Speaker 1: I wouldn't be here without her. One year after Maddie's death,
• 38:59
  Speaker 1: Ben Mogan sat down at Coeur d'Alene Starbucks to share
• 39:03
  Speaker 1: all the things he loved about his wonderful daughter. But,
• 39:07
  Speaker 1: It wasn't just any Starbucks. The last time we ever
• 39:10
  Speaker 1: went somewhere together was here, he explained, motioning to the
• 39:14
  Speaker 1: small corner to his left. There used to be a
• 39:17
  Speaker 1: table right over there, and that's the one we sat at.
• 39:20
  Speaker 1: Every time I drive by here, I think about just
• 39:22
  Speaker 1: how much I wish she was still here with us.
• 39:26
  Speaker 1: And if we could take anything from this, folks, like
• 39:28
  Speaker 1: I said earlier, life is finite And the people that
• 39:32
  Speaker 1: we love, we got to let them know we love
• 39:34
  Speaker 1: them because tragedy is only a moment away. And I
• 39:38
  Speaker 1: know we don't want to think about our mortality, but
• 39:40
  Speaker 1: we're only granted a certain amount of time here on
• 39:43
  Speaker 1: this spinning ass rock. So whenever there's a tragedy like
• 39:47
  Speaker 1: this or, you know, somebody loses their life, it always
• 39:50
  Speaker 1: puts things into perspective, right? That life is finite. And
• 39:54
  Speaker 1: in my opinion, it's a good idea to tell the
• 39:56
  Speaker 1: people that you love, you love them. Remembering Maddie. One
• 40:02
  Speaker 1: of the things Ben Mogan shared with Maddie was a
• 40:04
  Speaker 1: love for music. Eight years ago, nearly to the day,
• 40:08
  Speaker 1: the two went to a Mac Miller concert together. According
• 40:11
  Speaker 1: to Ben, Matty knew all the words, a memory he
• 40:14
  Speaker 1: holds near and dear to his heart. How many of
• 40:17
  Speaker 1: you out there have went to a concert or something
• 40:19
  Speaker 1: like that with your dad or your mom, or if
• 40:22
  Speaker 1: you're a parent, vice versa? And now think about the
• 40:26
  Speaker 1: fact that that's all that Ben Mogan is left with.
• 40:29
  Speaker 1: As great as those memories are, that's all he has left.
• 40:32
  Speaker 1: All because some sick, degenerate bastard decided to creep into
• 40:36
  Speaker 1: this house and murder his daughter and her housemates. We
• 40:41
  Speaker 1: definitely enjoyed our music together, he said. Another memory that
• 40:44
  Speaker 1: keeps a smile on Ben's face is finding out that
• 40:47
  Speaker 1: his daughter was going to be an Idaho Vandal. He
• 40:50
  Speaker 1: said he was happy she was venturing out into the
• 40:53
  Speaker 1: world and living her own life, while still being close
• 40:56
  Speaker 1: enough to come home on the weekends. Last spring, the
• 41:00
  Speaker 1: University of Idaho awarded Maddie with a posthumous degree in marketing,
• 41:05
  Speaker 1: and she was set to graduate this year. walking across
• 41:08
  Speaker 1: the stage and picking up that diploma for her that
• 41:11
  Speaker 1: she earned. They didn't just give it to her because
• 41:14
  Speaker 1: they were trying to be nice. She earned all those credits,
• 41:17
  Speaker 1: Ben Mogan said. And she actually, she got that degree.
• 41:20
  Speaker 1: And we're so proud of her still. She had such
• 41:23
  Speaker 1: a bright future ahead of her. And the more I
• 41:25
  Speaker 1: hear from the parents and about the absolute pain that
• 41:28
  Speaker 1: they're all in, the more I want to see Koberger,
• 41:31
  Speaker 1: if he's guilty. get his ass thrown from a helicopter
• 41:34
  Speaker 1: directly into a volcano. And while that's never going to occur,
• 41:38
  Speaker 1: hopefully at the end of all of this, if Brian
• 41:41
  Speaker 1: Koberger is guilty, then hopefully that justice is as severe
• 41:45
  Speaker 1: as it comes. Although the pain of losing his daughter
• 41:48
  Speaker 1: will always be with him, Ben Mogan said his daughter's
• 41:51
  Speaker 1: spirit remains with him every day. My mom got me
• 41:55
  Speaker 1: a little silver angel wing to remind me that Maddie
• 41:58
  Speaker 1: is always with me, he said. When I feel that
• 42:01
  Speaker 1: she's looking down on me or that she's there with me,
• 42:03
  Speaker 1: I say it out loud. I say I love you, Maddie,
• 42:06
  Speaker 1: or I say hi, Maddie, or something like that. So
• 42:09
  Speaker 1: maybe she can know that I'm thinking about her and
• 42:12
  Speaker 1: how often I think about her. She's always on my heart.
• 42:16
  Speaker 1: Just absolutely heartbreaking. And the thought that this is reality
• 42:20
  Speaker 1: for people and the thought that they have to live
• 42:22
  Speaker 1: like this without their children anymore is just almost too
• 42:26
  Speaker 1: much to bear. And at this point, obviously, all we
• 42:29
  Speaker 1: can hope for is justice. And even then, that's not
• 42:32
  Speaker 1: going to bring these kids back. But what it does
• 42:34
  Speaker 1: do is provide, at the very least, a little bit
• 42:38
  Speaker 1: of closure. And in the long healing process for these families,
• 42:42
  Speaker 1: it's one step closer to getting to that point. All right, folks,
• 42:47
  Speaker 1: that's going to do it for this one. All of
• 42:49
  Speaker 1: the information that goes with this episode can be found
• 42:52
  Speaker 1: in the description box.