Latest / Don Talk - Conversations with Mike Turner / Code Switching to Survive: The Hidden Cost of Being Black in America
Transcript
- Don Talk: Thanks everybody for listening and joining in on that podcast. We had such a great time talking about this topic that we extended it for two episodes. So we're going to cut this off right here, right now. Tune in next week where we drop the second half of this episode. Like and subscribe here on YouTube if you like what we're doing. So we keep this going. Appreciate you. right. Welcome, everybody, to another episode of Don Talk. I'm super excited about this episode. Once again, I got my buddy Don DeRon on here with us. ⁓ got a guest, ⁓ I'm super excited about this topic. We're here to talk about code switching. ⁓ And code switching is like survival, identity, and authenticity. Like, We've been living this life, so we're gonna talk about this, how it affects us, if it does affect us, affect us in any way, shape or form, how do we navigate these waters and how we talk and who we talk around. And we're gonna dive into the origins of it too. So we're just gonna dive into it. We always start off with, how you doing? We'll start off with the guest. Brother RC, how you doing today? Truthfully and honestly, how you doing? RC: Well, I will say this, but before I say how I'm doing, I would just like to extend a heartfelt thank you for allowing me to occupy the space with you all today. Brother Michael, Brother Da'Ron I really appreciate opportunity ⁓ to be here with you all. ⁓ having said that, ⁓ I feel... ⁓ I feel great. And I say I feel great in a space that is it perfect? No. ⁓ But am I blessed? Yes. So therefore, I look forward to spending time with you all. And we can get down into the nuances of what it means to deal with code switching. And I'm sure we're going to have a wonderful time together. So thank you. Don Talk: No, I appreciate that, but I'm gonna call you out and tell you and say that's a PC answer. RC: ⁓ okay. Well, so you want me to try it again? Don Talk: You gave us a P.A. and so like when I, I'm gonna say, so you ask me how I'm doing. And this is the problem, this is what we're trying to get beyond the normal PC-ness, right? Because we talk about everything that's going on, but we never really address what's really going on to really let it out and have people help you get through it. And not saying you gotta do that right now. So ask me how I'm doing. RC: Okay, so you want me to try it again? Okay, brother Don Talk, brother Michael, how are you doing? Don Talk: Well, you know, I'm alive and kicking. I can honestly say the past two days have been great, and I'll tell you why. But I'll back it up. The past few weeks have been tough, ⁓ just with everything that's going on in life, ⁓ which we try to bring up in these episodes. ⁓ Work, know, work is... ⁓ I got an unexpected performance review that wasn't up to the level that I was expecting and that kind of crushed me. So out of all the things I've done, only saying I'm only valued at this and that hurts. So I've been dealing and struggling with that. But then I actually been listening to this Jay Shetty podcast where he's saying there's seven things you got to do in the morning before, you know, to make sure your day goes off great. And I tried this for the past two days. RC: Hmm. Don Talk: And the main thing is not picking up your phone and dive right into your phone. But not really giving affirmations, but he talks about seven things that you're supposed to do to set your mind right for the day. And I've tried that the past two days, including today being the second one. And it's been an amazing transformation. the first hour and half that you're up, don't touch my phone. Go through these seven steps, these seven phases. I do my journaling, I do my reading. RC: Hmm. Don Talk: and I exercise. And all this without touching social media, doing anything like that, and it's been a game changer. The hard part for me is gonna be staying consistent with that. Because he talks about how when you wake up and you start remembering yesterday's problems, yesterday's issues, and that starts to already clog your mind with bogging you down for how you're gonna... approach today and then you start worrying about this, start worrying about that, then all these worries and doubts and fears start coming in because you open yourself up to that instead of doing... a regimented routine to make sure your mind is set to approach the day correctly. So I'll send that to you, dope one, but yeah, it's been a whirlwind of emotion the past few weeks, and for the past two days, I've been feeling good because of this added routine that I've put into my... ⁓ RC: Okay. Okay, so if we can then. Okay, ⁓ so do I get another try at this? If I could, could I get another try at this? Don Talk: So there, that was a real, real... So we'll keep all this in, because we gonna show... So we gonna start off. Okay. RC: No, I got you. If I could get another try at this, this would be wonderful for me. I mean, this would be a resuscitative breath of fresh air for me. Don Talk: So, all right, welcome aboard RC. How you doing today, brother? I wanna know how you're doing for real. RC: You know brother, thank you for asking. For me, now that you really have me in my bag now, right? It is beautifully tough. It is beautifully tough because you never could have told me that I would be a full-time father half the time as a divorcee. You know, with ⁓ a beautiful 13-year-old thespian who is just outstanding. And a nine-year-old who is trying to make sense out of life based on what he understands the expectations on him to be while living his full journey. And so my kids lives do not mimic what mine was. My kids have everything at their fingertips that they could ever hope for. Whereas I understand coming from where I was, I thought that my grandparents were broke not realizing that they had it all. because they weren't worried about the capitalistic way of doing things as much as they were actually concentrating on what they possessed. And so for me as a person who is in my head most of the day, ⁓ I have to really juggle and it takes energy to juggle not making my head the prison that I never asked for. understanding that it doesn't have to be a jail at all while still trying to be palatable enough to achieve while not losing my soul and that is a constant struggle each day. So having said all of that, I feel blessed to be here. I'm blessed to be here with you and our brother, Da'Ron. while understanding that James Baldwin phrase, and I paraphrase now that to be a black person in America is understanding what it means to constantly live in a state of rage. And I will now add my own piece to it while maintaining the ability to have that rage undetected. Don Talk: Mmm. RC: And so I think that's a good segue into some of the things we want to speak of today. So I appreciate you. Don Talk: No, ⁓ that's a perfect segue onto topic at hand. So we're gonna get there, but we're gonna check in and make sure ⁓ is okay. Mr. Anderson: Huh? Don Talk: You good, man? You good? Mr. Anderson: ⁓ things happen, man, but you gotta adjust. You gotta adjust. That's all that is. It's adjusted. But I'm okay. Apologize for the tech difficulty. As you can see, I switched places in my home. Don Talk: All right. We see that. I see it. ⁓ So we just talked about how we're doing. You missed a lot, but we'll cut this little segment out. But how you doing today, De'Rion? Everything good? What's going on with you, man? Mr. Anderson: I'm good. This is a cold Swiss right now. mean, real talk. We mess a lot, man. What's going on with you? This supposed to be real talk, man. Yeah, there's a lot going on. Don Talk: ⁓ So you missed it, RC gave me the PC, I'm doing great, I'm blessed, I'm highly favored and blah, blah, blah. And I said, come on, man, this is not what we're here for. Tell us what's really going on. And then he broke it down. So, yeah. Mr. Anderson: I hope he told you what really, he seemed like somebody who could tell you what's really going on when he ain't on, when he's not on camera. I believe it. Don Talk: I'm RC: My brother, I broke it down like a fraction and divided it by the least common denominator. Mr. Anderson: ⁓ okay, okay. Don Talk: Hahaha Okay, all right. So how you doing, Duron? What's going on, man? How's your day? How's your week been? Mr. Anderson: You know, like I said ⁓ before, man, I'm in transition right now, right? ⁓ Mom just relocated back to California. You know, I'm still... ⁓ I'm off my books and talking to different organizations. Man, I'm trying to reorganize my office, because my mom took my office as a guest room. We moved her into that. So now my office is in disarray. So I'm in transition now. ⁓ In mental health, we would call it ⁓ an adjustment disorder. Don Talk: Transition phase. Mr. Anderson: Right? You know, ⁓ anytime something ⁓ major, a major change in your life, whether it's ⁓ a death, ⁓ well, that can go into bereavement, but you can also be adjusting to whether it's a new job, a new spouse, new relationship. It takes time. And I think most of us know I'm not, didn't really hear what you had to say as far as, you know, moving to a different state. But I mean, for those who move to a different state, it's a lot of transitions, right? So ⁓ that's where I'm at right now. I'm in transition and I'm trying to adjust to this new way of life, you where my mom is gone, but I still have my mother-in-law here, you know, kind of to help out as well. So just getting used to a whole lot of things. How am I doing? I am, my mind is racing right now, right? And I'm trying to slow down as I'm speaking to y'all brothers, right? But sometimes, regardless of what happens, we gotta keep going, right? And that's the scary thing about what we as men go through. cares what you're feeling like, man. Right? You don't care what I feel like you still want me on here. I still want to be on here, but it's still my responsibility to be on there. You know what I mean? Well, you know what I mean? Pretty much, yeah, we do care, but we still have to do what we have to do. And I'm going to tell the people, know, look. Don Talk: I do care. That's why we ask him to have this real open honesty of how you're doing. Yeah, you're right. Regardless of how you feel, I want you on this podcast. You're right about that. Mr. Anderson: Look, right, right. But today, my daughter, right, she's in theater, she's a great student, straight A student, honor student, right. She was feeling some type of way last night into this morning. And she said, I have to go to school. I said, girl, if you don't sit your butt down and stay home, right, because she will keep going, keep going until her mental health. RC: Mm-hmm. Mr. Anderson: is damaged. something and that's a lot. That's what we do. We keep going, keep going. Next thing you know what? We mad and we don't even know why. We have an attitude and we don't even know why. Right? So we have to be sure to take care of ourselves before we can take care of anybody else, I have to say that. You know, have to say that. Don Talk: No, you're good. You're good. You got to take care of yourself. And I think from the very first podcast that we did, you've been teaching me to, to take care of myself and move on and grow from, from things. ⁓ Hey, I hear you with that. Mr. Anderson: again man. RC: I just, if I may man, I'm smiling because this brother has given a master class on what it means to be human in the introduction and I don't know about you all and the way that you all grew up. Nobody cared about your mental health when I was a kid. Mr. Anderson: Hmm. Right, absolutely, absolutely. Don Talk: you RC: You know, they cared about you being able to survive and grow and thrive and take care of yourself. And if you had to die trying, so be it. So the fact that you said that I appreciate that. Don Talk: here for. All cool. I'm glad we're here. We're making it and managing one way, the best ⁓ way we know how. With that said, All right. So what is everybody drinking on? Dara, start off, what you drinking on? There we go. Mr. Anderson: Buller Bergen. This is the rye. Buller Bergen. Don Talk: Okay, awesome, awesome. Okay, what about you, RC? What you sippin' on? RC: Okay, well, I must admit that I'm sitting on blasphemy right now because I'm not watching my glycemic index at all. It is Coca-Cola accompanied by, no matter what fact is, is it? Aberfield D12 year. which you are not supposed to add Coca-Cola to that at all. However, I felt a hint of sweetness in me tonight. therefore I shall not, you know, we listen, but we will not judge, brother. Don Talk: Yeah. Mr. Anderson: I'm gonna ask is this brother of a pastor of some sort it is is spare time Don Talk: but we're not judging. Hey Don, just hold on to your chair. We're gonna get there. Mr. Anderson: I'm feeling something right now. RC: We have all been called to minister in our lives, my good brother. Mr. Anderson: Absolutely. I agree with that. That I agree with. Don Talk: I'm on some tequila tonight. some Verde Dero, I don't know how you pronounce this, but this stuff is good. ⁓ It's a Reposado. It was recommended to me by the shop owner. I said need to a new tequila. So yeah, I've tried enough of it. It's all gone. RC: No, brother, that is drinking. That's not trying. Don Talk: All right, so now we in the mood. right, so code switching. Okay, we'll talk about a little bit about the origin, but here, let's start off by asking the question or us answering the question. When was the first time that you realized that you had to or you were changing how you spoke to fit in or be accepted? Mr. Anderson: Okay. RC: Is that for me, is that for Mr. Hanson over here? You know what, I will lean in fully to being a guest tonight. Thank you, my dear brothers. I think for me, I think it was third grade and we had to do ⁓ a botany assignment in third grade and I mispronounced something. Mr. Anderson: Let the guest go, yes sir. R.C., let's see what you got. you RC: because in the flower pot that I used, it was something that is a P-E-A-T space M-O-S-S. ⁓ When I got to class I said, you use some soil and you use some pit moss. And the class burst out laughing because it's important for you to understand this. I'm in Shreveport, Louisiana at this point and my school was outside of Shreveport, Louisiana in a rural area called Belcher. And my school that I was bussed to for 45 minutes was predominantly white. Mr. Anderson: Yeah. you RC: And so I think that we can all agree that when you have ⁓ the capital that whiteness provides, you have a better understanding and command of the English language that I did not have. And I was actually saying what I remember hearing. And that was the first time that I realized based on the reaction of the class. that I was not in alignment with what the norm was. And I asked, well, how did you all say it? And they told me Pete Moss. And then I tried my best to over pronounce everything that I was trying to deliver at that point while not trying to be on the margins of my social group at that time. Don Talk: So what was your most predominant ethnicity during that time? You remember third grade? RC: Well, at that school, it was a magnet school that we had to be, you had to be accepted into it at first anyway, right? And it was overwhelmingly white. And at that point, I didn't realize it, but even being rural white was better than being any kind of black in that school, right? And that was the beginning of the times where I understood that I was not like the others. Don Talk: Yeah. Yeah. RC: but it was also before the time where I could honestly say that I didn't care because you're still trying to fit in as a youth not understanding that you are marginalized at that point. Don Talk: Okay, I like that, I like that, okay. What you got, Da'Ron Mr. Anderson: I would, man, you know what? ⁓ So I went to sermon Oaks at first, right? You know sermon Oaks in the Valley in high school. Then I went to Crenshaw. It was like black and white. As far as how the difference is between. But I never really remembered cold switching. I just remembered being myself always got me in trouble, right? No matter where I was. ⁓ I realized it's like being yourself, being myself, people don't want you to be yourself. They want you to be somebody else. Right. But it really didn't hit me until I got to Purdue. Right. When my wife, know, Mike, you was there, you know, she was in her PhD program. And the first time I was around, like researchers. You're right. All these researchers, right? I didn't know what the heck they were talking about, right? I know they didn't talk about real life. I know they was just only talk about research, research, research. And I found myself trying to not necessarily, you know, not trying to, just trying to understand, you know, what was going on and trying to, you know, I'm not going to fake that, you know, pretend that I know what they're talking about. I don't, but even trying to understand what they were talking about was hard, right? Like, it's just like the wording they were using is for those who were in research, they know what I'm talking about, And anytime I tried to do it, you can kind of see it on their faces. I don't care if he was black, white, Mexican, it don't matter, researchers, right? And I just felt like this big, man. I felt this big because I knew that they can see that I didn't know what I was talking about. Even when asking questions, right? Because you can listen to people, but sometimes you don't even know what questions to ask. That's how difficult it was for me to understand. So me trying to co-switch. RC: Mm-hmm. Mr. Anderson: that really worked for me, man. And that's why I'm in the, and that's why I never really made it to, you know, like corporate America because I knew I would probably be gone within a month. Cause I can't, I can't do that facade for too long. Don Talk: Yeah, and that's a good point. Remind us to get back on doing it to what effect it has on you when you try to do it for too long. We're going to talk about that later on. ⁓ Because RC knows what happens when I try to do it too long. So we'll get into that story too. So my earliest remembrance is not actually a time frame, but it's actually an origin of where we were first taught to cold switch. Mr. Anderson: Okay. Okay. you RC: Please do. Please do. Don Talk: is your parents. you know, regardless of where you at, where they take you, once they take you outside the house, don't act a fool, don't be cutting up. And you gotta, and they introduce you to their friends, you gotta sit there and be like, ⁓ yes, yes, I have the best parents in the world. No, no, they don't beat me, no, uh-uh. You know, like. You know, so. Mr. Anderson: Family business stays in the house. All family business outside the house, right? Don Talk: go and then they introduce you, they take you outside, you go into the store. You always, he was always told to act a certain way to fit in or not be cast out socially. And then you take that and now you go to church. It's the same thing. You're taught to act and be a certain way to be accepted in those environments. So it goes back to as early as we can remember that I feel we were. being bred to code switch without us even knowing that was a term at that point in time. What you think about that? Mr. Anderson: I didn't, I never looked at that as code switching. I just looked at it as don't act a fool. You know? ⁓ Yeah, I never really thought about it like that, but you do have, you know, you do make a point. ⁓ Yeah, now I gotta go back and talk to my parents. Cause you met my, you met Paulette. She actually taught us all that. How to speak. how to, know, where the fork goes, you know, when you're eating, what fork to take on with. ⁓ But never that, man. That's interesting. RC: Well, you know, with that, brother, ⁓ I have a confession to make. To actually display palatability, I've been code switching this whole time on the front end. Mr. Anderson: All right, I'm ready for this. RC: So now that we done with all that, baby, let's get into how to cow bite the cabbage, you understand what I'm saying? Man, let me tell you something. When it comes down to the way our parents do things, man, what's the number one job of a parent? To keep your baby safe. Right? And so our parents, whether they knew it or not, they didn't even want us to be ostracized in no way. Right? Mr. Anderson: Safe. ⁓ RC: What's the rules? When we get in this place, you ain't hungry. Don't you ask for nothing? Don't you touch nothing? You ain't getting nothing. You're going to say, yes, ma'am. No, ma'am. Yes, sir. No, sir. You're to do all of these things, even in places where you supposed to be yourself. Right? You couldn't even whisper in church without getting pinched on it all. Mr. Anderson: Mm-hmm. RC: You know, and why is that? Because they wanted us to be safe, bro. Right? We've been cold switching all our lives because they wanted us to be safe. They didn't think about a lot of the things and brother Don talking. Now we talked about this a little bit. We had to cold switch man and the safety of a lot of our ancestors because we didn't want to be sold. Think about it. Can you imagine, bro, anything worse to being a slave that stands out? Think about this, right? Think about it. You ask somebody, man, who is not a part of this living experience, right? So, how's your son and daughter doing? ⁓ they are great. They are number one in their class. Or they are just absolutely outstanding. As a matter of fact, they have a 4.0 GPA, and you can do that when you don't have that kind of experience behind you. Now imagine somebody like, so how's your son, Pearl? Right? Mr. Anderson: Peace. RC: Imagine Pearl being like, you know what? My son can jump 48 inches. know? Or my son, like you know, he been out here working all day. He ain't even tired. You got somebody on side like, mm-hmm, he working, jump 48, mm-hmm, he ain't tired. You know what I'm And that's a dollar value to that. So what did our parents do? Girl, how your son doing? Girl, he all right. We was always all right, right? unless it was in a safe space somewhere where they realized that there was no danger present. So that's part of our experience. Mr. Anderson: Yeah. So my question is just to add to that, and we'll just to, I mean, just quick question. What are they, what, well, what was our parents trying to protect us from? Right? You said safety, right? Like. Don Talk: So that's a good. Mr. Anderson: Cause now, now I'm thinking about it. Like, what were they trying to protect us from? It wasn't going to hurt us. It was more, think, they didn't want us to embarrass them. RC: Well, that's true. You know what, brother? That's a whole lot of truth to that because you try to prove something to your parents, at least where I'm from, I can't speak for y'all. But somebody can ask a question and I would jump up, hey, mom, I know that. You know, the first thing my mom would tell me, bro, and it was the funniest, it's funny now. It wasn't funny then. You know, you think you know everything, I stopped by somebody's school. Mr. Anderson: I'm listening. Yeah RC: It's like, hell you mean you start by somebody's school. We all went to school the same number of years. Of course you start by that damn place. But I think there's a whole lot of truth to that. But it's an interesting dichotomy, man, as far as I'm concerned. Because you want your kids to be the best they can be. But you don't want your kids to feel as though that they are better than you. That's a hell of a jail to be in. You So just thought. Don Talk: Yeah, I think that's like jail. So you talk about it being a safety mechanism, right? Even from back to slavery, you had to code switch to make sure you was safe and protected as best as you could during that time. And that still carries us through today. RC: Yes you could. Don Talk: The question is, the quote that I found was, we often navigate two worlds, one where we belong and one where we must prove we do. And we talked about safety being one mechanism of why we code switch. Are we constantly trying to prove that we belong? Is that the other reason why we code switch? RC: Okay, so I don't know the answer to this question, but I at least owe you a fair attempt since you asked it, right? I don't even know if it's us trying to prove we belong. I mean, for me early in my life, I was trying to prove like I belong in spaces, but those were colonized spaces. So it's two spaces that I will say at least colonized space, un-colonized space. In the colonized space, there might've been some times that I was trying to prove that I belong. But for me, That was based on monetization. You know, I really didn't care to be a part of anybody's social group. I just wanted, I didn't want to be in a position where somebody would tell me what I can't do to block my money because they don't think I fit. Right. In an un-colonized space, you ain't got to prove nothing. That's just where you are. That's your people. That's who you are. I mean, you don't think I'm telling the truth. Watch this right here. Watch how you eat chicken when you at work. Mr. Anderson: Hmm. RC: compared to how you eat chicken at your crib. Oh, I'm lying. I'm lying. At work, man, you will sit there, man, and try to use a fork and knife for a wing. know, let the house maybe have grease coming down your arm, this, that, and the third, all this hill, you know, this, that, right? And you doing that for the reason of you don't want to be ostracized to get your money blocked, right? Don Talk: I'm not lying. I'm not lying. Mr. Anderson: Me. Ray. Ray. Ray. Hmm RC: That's the real underlying currency of racism. Somebody can keep you from being the best you can in the colonized space if they don't think you deserve to be there. Right? When you at the crib and you at the hood, you ain't gotta worry about none of that kind of stuff. We all got the same thing anyway. The whole world sees it the same way anyway. We don't care. Mr. Anderson: Exactly. Exactly. Except if you have neighbors a certain way. RC: You know what? You got a point, but guess what? We had to get to the point where we had to bring ourselves up to another level to even get that. If you go back to where we was born and raised, man, nobody cared who you was, Think about how we describe people. But hey, but you know Antoine, Antoine, know, what the I? You know what I'm saying? We would always pick the lowest common denominator, you know? Mr. Anderson: You Yeah. ⁓ yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. RC: Yeah, know, saying with the club foot, everybody knew who saying with the club foot was, you know? But when you think about it, it took us trying to get to this perceived level of what it meant to make it. And then once we get there, then we got to put ourselves in a space where we can maintain that, which turns into a jail all itself. Don Talk: Yeah. Mr. Anderson: That's weird. Yeah. Don Talk: So what I hear that you're saying or tried to say or what I interpreted, however you want to put it, because we're in a colonized space, it's outside of our comfortable habitat, in order to succeed in that colonized space, we have to, not to say we have to, if we want to maximize the. tension when that space is it necessary to cold switch or is it or is it not I guess I mean I don't know Mr. Anderson: Man, you know, I'm not even answering that question that you just asked, I'm so I just want you to think that that's what I'm about to do. But I try my best, you know, because we've been code switching for so long. If you had a job, you code switch. If you had a job, if you was working for someone else, you code switch, right? But honestly, ma'am, my goals are to make sure people have to code switch around me. Don Talk: Thank RC: Bitport. Mr. Anderson: You know, be yourself. It's hard to be yourself when you need to be yourself. Hell, sometimes you don't even know how to be yourself because we've been cold-switching too long. Don Talk: Hmm. Mr. Anderson: Now there's something wrong with you. Don Talk: ⁓ yeah. Do you get lost in that? Lost in that, who are you? Are you the person that you are at work or are the person you are at home? RC: Okay, okay. I got a response to that, brother. I got a response to that, right? And my response is this. You cold switch when you are not independently wealthy. Don Talk: Mm. RC: Anybody we know who is who is independently wealthy to brother Durand's point People cold switch around them because they know that they don't need them for anything They know that they're just trying to glean something from them But you know what the great equalizer was for me when it came down to cold switching and choosing not to Kids Mr. Anderson: What's that? RC: because kids are the, for me, my kids were the greatest judges of calling out cap before cap was a word. I ain't heard cap for the first time until about two years ago, But man, got a 13 and a nine. Mr. Anderson: You Don Talk: Mm-hmm. RC: I consciously stop code switching when they're around. I don't care if I'm talking to the president of a corporation or a university or if I'm talking to a janitor. I don't care. My kids, anytime they're around, they're going to say, dad is the same dad, right? Because they will embarrass me in public. If they heard me cold switch and start trying to like, you know, put the extra oomph on my R's or, you know, putting G's on the end of my words or this and the third, my kids will shoot me, especially the baby boy. He ain't got no feel for it. be like, my daddy trippin'. You know, and because, no, no, no, I got, I got a boy and a girl. My girl is 13, right? My son, cause I got my two kids, my son is nine. Don Talk: So. Mr. Anderson: How's your oldest boy? How is he? Okay. Got you, okay. RC: But when I tell you, and Mike knows him, the most honest little boy, he doesn't know how to lie. So if you want him to lie on your behalf, do yourself a favor and do not ask him any question. He has no context clues, he has no social cues, no nothing. Whatever you ask him, it's the real deal, right? And so he's the kind of dude that he may not say anything in a public space if he were to see me do it, but as soon as we get home, he's gonna be like, hey dad, can I ask you a question? What's up, man? ⁓ Remember when we were at so and so place early? Yeah. Okay, so what was that? What was that about, man? Because... That's not how we operate. That's not who you are. That's not how you speak. What happened to make you do X, Y, and Z? And so, because I don't want to have that kind of conversation, I just keep it funky. Mr. Anderson: you Don Talk: So that's a great segue to a story that I've just been trying to find the right time to tell a story. So I know how your son feels because me and R.C. used to work at the same place, right? ⁓ So when he first started... RC: You Hmm. Don Talk: the person he was replacing was like, you gotta meet the guys replacing me. Dr. Holmes, blah, blah, he's a great guy, blah, blah, blah, just lay out his resume. I'm like, ⁓ let me get myself together. I gotta be ready for this. So we meet at this place that's around a corner, literally around a corner from work for lunch. I meet him and he's just like, ⁓ what up, brother? Like, you know, dap up. He just like, he in a comfortable space, right? And I'm just sitting here like, as he's talking, I'm like confused because I'm thinking of the resume that his colleague just told me that this guy is. I'm sitting like, I'm lost. But the brother was cool. He was himself from day one. Mr. Anderson: Confused. Don Talk: And I don't know, this was what, summertime or right before fall. So since that day, we've hung out multiple times before we actually saw him in a work setting. So now, let's say we hung out four times before the actual work setting. So we go to a meeting that I know that he's in, and now I'm like, okay, I don't know. RC: Right before a fall. Mr. Anderson: Mm-hmm. Don Talk: What's about to happen? So I'm sitting in a meeting and this guy starts talking and it's none of that slang, it's none of that, it's just like, well, I think we should look at the dynamics of, ⁓ and just, I'm sitting here, who is this guy? I mean, there's a reason why he's on this episode because he is the best cold switcher I've ever seen in my entire life. And y'all heard it from the way he started off. Mr. Anderson: What's it Don Talk: in this conversation to now how he's starting to loosen up and talk now. Mr. Anderson: So what's the difference between cold switching and being professional, right? Is it a thin line? Because I mean, I believe in being professional when we need to be professional, but it doesn't, are we comparing cold switching and professionalism? Like, what's the difference? RC: Can I ask you a question? See, that's a good question, right? And so check this out. What is not professional about us? Everybody on this thing right now, bro. I'm looking at three blocks on this screen. We are professional as the day is long So if I say, how are you doing today? Well if I'm like wine black or if I'm like what's it that boy? I'm still the same guy in my core And okay, so so watch this I'm gonna try to really take yourself back to the last One year old you met Mr. Anderson: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. RC: and you interacted with. Matter of fact, let's go 10 month old, right? That 10 month old cannot really speak in complete sentences yet, But when you walk up on that 10 month old and you say, hey, how you doing? What's the first thing that 10 month old is gonna do? Mr. Anderson: Mm-hmm. You're gonna smile. RC: Well, no, ain't the first thing. Think about this. The first thing that 10-month-old is gonna do is gonna look you dead in your face, and within two seconds, it's going to... put you in the friend category, foe category, fake category, real category, all of that. And once they make that determination, then it's gonna be a smile, then it's gonna be a cry, then it's gonna be something. Because they're 10 months old without any of them fancy books, without any of this fancy coaching. Mr. Anderson: Mmm. RC: knows how to look into your soul rather than listening to what you say. Think about that. All of us can been around kids. Everybody on this thing got kids, as far as I'm concerned, right? That kid is gonna differentiate on that. Us though, we have been put in positions as professionals. Mr. Anderson: How was? RC: that we have to try to trust what somebody tells us because we're not around them long enough to realize exactly who they are and what their motivations are and we don't expect them to be real because we've been so inundated with politics so much that we expect everybody to be fake until proven otherwise. Don Talk: Hmm. Dang. Mr. Anderson: I have a four year old. I'm wondering what she would think about you guys. Like what would be her reaction if both of these gentlemen said hello to her. And if I asked her, which one is the nice guy? what type of, like, you know, asking that certain type of questions based on your hello. And that's it. RC: You know what? I don't know because I tell you what there is. There's a variable in the room that I think needs to be accounted for. Because I position you to be an upstanding father. And the bias is already in because she wouldn't expect you to be around no fakeness. Mr. Anderson: as you do. RC: So because she wouldn't expect you to be around any fakeness, anybody you introduce her to and say, hey, what do you think about these guys? She's already going to be like, well, these guys must be cool because daddy wouldn't put me with nobody who was foul. Don Talk: Mm, yeah. Mr. Anderson: Nah. ⁓ Like, look, you have a daughter, both you guys have daughters. So we talked about it last time. We want to protect them from certain people. So me, you know, bringing my daughter here and asking her, it kind of lets me know, am I on the right track? Don Talk: This is not her. like, I know who my dad is. Mr. Anderson: you know, or do I have to teach her, you know, do I have to, you know, bring her around more men so she can feel comfortable in talking to them and, you should I trust this gentleman or, you know, because Gabby come over here, she gonna look at you, she gonna smile, and I'll ask her which one is nice, and I'm wondering which one would she say is the nice person? she say both of you? Gabrielle? Gabrielle? Come here. RC: Hmm. Don Talk: Bring your hand right now, ask her, ask her. RC: Everybody know that fast folks jolly, so I'm gonna win this one, Don Talk: Aww. Mr. Anderson: Good beer. Come here, young, my princess lady. This is Gabriel. RC: I love this. love this. Hey, Gabrielle, how are you, sweetheart? How are you, sweetie? That's good, sweetheart. Don Talk: Hey Gabrielle, how you doin'? Mr. Anderson: Does that want to answer something? Don Talk: Yeah. Mr. Anderson: Which one is the nice person? can you know yes RC: Okay, can I ask a question? Okay, sweetie, I want you to be honest. Can you be honest for me? I know, but can I ask you a question, sweetheart? Would daddy ever put you in the company of anybody who wasn't nice like this? He would. Mr. Anderson: He pointed to both of you, by the way. Don Talk: I ⁓ heard it. He would. Mr. Anderson: Would I bring you around mean people? Yeah. Huh? Yes. I would. Yeah. Well, at least we know she's honest. Say, have a nice day. RC: You ain't kidding. Thank you very much, sweetheart. You passed that test. I mean it. You have a nice evening too, sweetie. Don Talk: You too! Mr. Anderson: Say bye bye. What's your guys name? Don Talk: My name is Michael. RC: And I'm Ryan but my close friends call me RC of which I have close friends on the camera right now. Mr. Anderson: What is that behind me? RC: ⁓ you want to my picture? This is a painting that is oil on canvas that is really near and dear to me. And so I thought it would be a good idea to put it on the screen today. Do you like it? Thank you very much. That means a lot to me to hear you say that. Okay. Mr. Anderson: That because hey, I appreciate you. Thank you. Look at. I know it's me. I know I see you. Love you girl. I love you too. One thing I do teach my kids is even if it makes me look bad, be honest. Thank you. I appreciate it, man. I appreciate it. I appreciate it. Don Talk: That's a sweetheart. RC: Bruh. Don Talk: Yeah. RC: You know what brother and you are doing a wonderful job. Don Talk: Okay, so one thing that I heard, professionalism is subjective. Mr. Anderson: you Don Talk: Correct? Because you said, we being professional or are we cold switching? That's subjective. And as RC really said, because we could be, our mindset of professionalism is knowledge-based, not how I talk. And the words in my vernacular. RC: Cut. I'ma disagree with you bro. I'ma disagree with you. I'ma be blunt. Since you brought me on here and I can say what I'm gonna say and I know this probably gonna be kept in perpetuity. Professionalism is anything that is seen as the best version of Eurocentrism. That's what professionalism is. The whiter it looks, the better it is. Mr. Anderson: Yeah, I disagree with this. Yes. Don Talk: Yes. Mmm. Mr. Anderson: Okay. Mmm. Whoa, you get that, whoa! Don Talk: Yeah. RC: the more Africanized anything looks, come on man, we said we in here, right? The more Africanized something is, or the more indigenous something is, the less refined, quote unquote, whatever refined is something is, the less professional it is. Mr. Anderson: No, that- that- that would be- I like that. ⁓ Don Talk: We in there. We in there. Mr. Anderson: Can we say the more cultured it is, the less professional it is? RC: Well, it all depends. See, now that's what we get into subjectivism right there, man, because when we say cultured, you know, a lot of people will say the museum is the most cultured place that you can go. But any museum I've ever gone to in the colonized space has had all of the most stolen artifacts you can think of in there. Right. And so that way. OK, is it the person who stole the cultured items that is the most cultured or is it the people that created them that is the most cultured? So those are the kind of questions that I ask myself. Mr. Anderson: Right. Yeah. RC: Right? And so for me, it's like anything, and I'll go back to what I said before, anything that is the most Eurocentric in its most ⁓ refined and esteemed state is considered to be the most professional. Until you got money. Because 50 cent in Jay-Z and Beyonce with the hot sauce in her purse. Right? George Lopez who came out, I he came out of y'all spot over there in California back in the day. They can show up anywhere they want to as independently wealthy people and everything is wiped off the table for the simple fact they can define what professionalism is to them based on notoriety. Don Talk: Yeah, you can't leave that. RC: Now if you got somebody who came off a Crenshaw or the Cooper Road or XYZ who expires the same thing that they expires and it is not widely known that they are independently wealthy even if they are, then it's when we start putting the ghetto hood know, monikers or what not, go along with it until people figure out what they were. It's like J. Cole going into that Ferrari or Porsche store he went into and dude telling him he can't afford to buy it until he realized he was J. Cole. So perception is reality, even if it ain't. Don Talk: So is ⁓ bringing everything that we talked about so far, your success determined on your ability to be able to code switch? If so, from what I interpret that we're saying, what I've interpreted so far, success is determined on the colonized version of the colonized environment in which we were in and try to be successful in until you get to a level of notoriety where you don't have to co-switch. Instead, people co-switch around you to get what they want from you. Mr. Anderson: When you say success, are you talking about professional success or life success? Because professional, yeah, I would think professional, but life, no. I think outside. RC: Mm-hmm, that's a good question. Don Talk: So break that down in the difference between what is considered professional success and what's considered personal success. Mr. Anderson: But when I think of professional success, I think of work. I think of what we do to earn that income or earn that paycheck that most of us work for. So anytime I say, when I hear professional, I think about job. That's what I think about. And when I think about just your life. I don't think it's about cold switching. I just think it's about if people like you or not. who you are. Absolutely. RC: Okay, can I respond? Because the reason why I'm asking, I'm always big on air time. I'm a talker, you know, my brother can tell you that, but I also believe, and hopefully he can agree with this too, I like to shut up to allow things to breathe and for other people to talk because none of us masters the total understanding of the world. We all got something to contribute, but you said something that triggered me, right? In a good way, in a good way, right? Mr. Anderson: Mm-hmm. RC: When it comes down to success, we get to define that, but the world and our capitalistic society defines it on how much bread you get. When you think about... Mr. Anderson: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. RC: the people who are the richest people that we know of right now in this iteration of life, those are the people who caused the most destruction to not just nature, but also to our societies. But people will give them the past because of how much bread they got. Why? Because people like, I could probably do business with them at some point. Some would give them a pass, right? Bro, you know what success was for me? And this is not to be overly dramatic. And I promise I'm gonna make this quick. Mr. Anderson: Right, right. I wanna hear this. RC: Man, I come from Cooper Road, Shreveport, Louisiana, bro. A lot of the dudes that came out of where I come from, man, if you made it past 18 years old, bro, you were told that you playing with house money now, bro. I got my first assault rifle pulled on me in front of my house and I was 10 years old. Right? Don Talk: Mm. RC: because there used to be a space in Shreveport, Louisiana, a liquor group that was called the 22 Game. When Colors came out around 88, and when the Rolling 60 Crips and the Five Dudes Hoover Crips and everybody started coming out of LA, because a lot of people don't understand, Tukey came out of Shreveport before he got to LA. Mr. Anderson: Mmm, I know that. RC: ⁓ don't take my word for it. Go look this up. Tookie came out of Shreveport. That fellow born and raised in Shreveport, Louisiana. Right? Went out there to LA, and then this one, you saw a scene of gangs come out of LA, come back to Shreveport and Little Rock and all these other places like that in order to make their bread. So we saw overnight the 22 gang almost be eradicated, and my neighborhood became a Rolling City Crib neighborhood. But when you 10 years old, you don't think nothing about walking out the house with some red jogging pants on. And that's what I walked out the house with. And so I'm next door at my neighbor house, Joukowski and Cortez and their brothers and sisters. And I see this dude come over the top of this car with his rifle like, hey man, what's up with that red light? And I froze because I knew he talking to me. But I'm sitting here like, red light? I don't got no red light. Right? Because you a baby. Mr. Anderson: ⁓ man. Yeah. Yeah. Right, right. RC: You a baby. And he goes, asked me this question like two, three more times. And finally the driver's like, hey man, that's a baby. Man, he don't know what you're talking about. That man cussed me out, man, like I was a grown man. And cause he was sitting on, he was on the passenger side, but he was sitting on the door frame with the window down so he could actually see over the top of the car. Man, he called me all kinds of stuff, got back in the car and they sped off, right? I got friends who never made it out of high school because they were dead. Mr. Anderson: Mm-hmm. RC: I used to tell my grad school roommate that I'm scared that I might not make it to 40. She was like, you guaranteed to make it past 40. I'm like, no, I'm not. So think about this, brother. Same fellow who was wondering if he would make it past college age. I got four degrees now, a bachelor, two masters, and a doctorate. Right? I'm upper level in higher education. I'm a past National Association president. You know? Mr. Anderson: you RC: That's unheard of where I'm from. So for me, just being alive still is success. To somebody else, having a million might be success. To somebody else, being a billion, that might be success. For me, success, for me, and this is why I shut up, is being alive, having kids when I didn't know I was gonna be able to have kids, having degrees when I wasn't guaranteed to have degrees. and having people look me in my face and say, your kids are some of the most ⁓ most well mannered kids that I've ever seen. And not knowing that in the back of my head, I'm sitting there thinking that I don't want my kids to be the most well mannered. I want my kids to be warriors for a time such as right now and not be the ones who are going with the flow because the flow goes, it goes against everything that ancestors ever hoped for. Mr. Anderson: Mm-hmm. Right. Right. Right. I know man, you just, you you just, you know what? You couldn't hold that close. What you dug down for like three seconds. I seen it. You couldn't hide that one. You went back home just for a little bit. Right? RC: I yield time back to y'all bro. had to say that though. Don Talk: Thanks. RC: Hey man. As we were saying in Philadelphia, bruh, I had to release that joint, you heard me? Don Talk: So here's the next, I guess the next phase is, because I heard an interpreter one thing he said is like, can you cold switch to a point to where you lose yourself? Because I had a similar instance with that. I'm from Eaglewood, California. Got a full track scholarship to Purdue University. So now, I can't be the Inglewood. We grew up on the good side of Inglewood. So whenever we say, ⁓ we grew up on the mean streets of Inglewood, people that know us will laugh, because it's like, ⁓ no, y'all didn't. So we joke about the mean streets of Inglewood. But we experienced it, but didn't live in the mean streets. But the Inglewood could not survive in West Lafayette, Indiana. ⁓ RC: You Mr. Anderson: It was nice. It was nice over there. Don Talk: Inglewood could not survive in West Lafayette, Indiana. So over time, I had to adapt to survive at a PWI, predominantly white institution, to get an education, keep my scholarship, the whole nine, to the point where you told a story that, here's my story, I forget what Inglewood was like. So during my track career, I... RC: Hmm. Don Talk: met a girl that also went to Washington. So now, I met her during the track circuit, but then at home over the summer, I'm going down to link up with her in all blue, not realizing what area she lives in. So I'm walking, had to park a few doors down from her place. I'm walking, like not a care in the world, because I've been... Mr. Anderson: you Don Talk: in this PWI space, cold switching, thinking that this is relative. And I'm like, doo doo doo, just walking all blue. Shorts, blue t-shirt, blue Nike canvas shoes. Car pulls up to me. Like, hey, like where you from? I'm just like, ⁓ And like it didn't hit me until that point that I looked at my, I said. RC: Hmm? Mr. Anderson: You Don Talk: ⁓ shit. like, so like, literally like, ⁓ man, like, literally I'm like on 10, trying to stay calm to be like, ⁓ man, I don't, don't bang. Like I'm literally just like coming from school, trying to see a friend. I'm sorry, like I'm literally backpedaling the whole nine. RC: Hmm hmm. Mr. Anderson: I Don Talk: because I've been in this environment where I had to cold switch to be accepted for so long that when I went back to my natural habitat, I forgot about what happens in a natural habitat because I've been in this environment cold switching for so long. Mr. Anderson: Yeah, man. RC: Man, check this out, bro. Sometimes it's good for the coward to point to what that brave man wants to as you hurt me. Mr. Anderson: Man, y'all something changed, man. What's Don Talk: laughter