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How A Recording Artist Balances Work and Family · Raising Daughters

0:12
Speaker 1: Hey, folks, Dr. Tim Jordan back with you with a
0:15
Speaker 1: brand new podcast, a brand new topic. And for this podcast,
0:19
Speaker 1: I have a very interesting guest. She's different than the norm.
0:23
Speaker 1: Not that she's different, but it's a different kind of
0:26
Speaker 1: interview because the woman that we're going to be talking
0:28
Speaker 1: to today, her name is Kat Parsons, and she's a musician.
0:33
Speaker 1: She writes songs. She plays songs. She's had songs out.
0:36
Speaker 1: But she's also a mother of, I think, was it
0:40
Speaker 1: three kids?
0:41
Speaker 2: Three kids, twins, eight-year-old twins and a 10-year-old.
0:46
Speaker 1: And she's a licensed clinical social worker, and she has
0:48
Speaker 1: a couples therapy practice, and she runs weekend retreats for couples.
0:52
Speaker 1: She has all kinds of things. And then she's back
0:54
Speaker 1: doing her songwriting and song playing. So I thought it
0:57
Speaker 1: would be an interesting conversation to have her talk about
1:00
Speaker 1: her experiences. So first of all, welcome to the show.
1:04
Speaker 2: Thank you so much for having me. It's fun to
1:07
Speaker 2: be here.
1:08
Speaker 1: So I'm guessing, well, maybe I shouldn't say this, but
1:10
Speaker 1: I'm guessing when you were 10 years old or 14
1:12
Speaker 1: years old, you didn't know you'd be doing all of
1:15
Speaker 1: this when you were, you look like you're, what are you, 25?
1:18
Speaker 1: You're 25 years old or whatever.
1:21
Speaker 2: I'm 48. I'm firmly in perimenopause right now. And I,
1:27
Speaker 2: I did not know that I would, no, I had
1:30
Speaker 2: no idea. You know, one of the biggest shocks was
1:32
Speaker 2: having twins. So, yeah. I knew music would be a
1:38
Speaker 2: part of my life somehow. My whole family sings. My
1:42
Speaker 2: dad was a professional opera singer. My mom is a singer-songwriter.
1:45
Speaker 2: I have a deep history of my grandparents. I knew
1:51
Speaker 2: I would be singing. And I think there's a lot
1:54
Speaker 2: related to performance, singing, and therapy. Because to me, the
2:00
Speaker 2: primary thread is about connection. And so as a singer,
2:05
Speaker 2: I got to travel all over the world and sing
2:08
Speaker 2: in countries where I did not speak the native language
2:12
Speaker 2: and still connect with people in such meaningful ways. There's
2:16
Speaker 2: something universal about music that allows people to connect without
2:22
Speaker 2: even necessarily sharing language. And I think therapy also is about,
2:28
Speaker 2: couples therapy in particular, relationship therapy is about facilitating connections.
2:34
Speaker 2: with people, with one another and in my work with them.
2:39
Speaker 1: Give me a quick timeline of like when you became,
2:42
Speaker 1: when you did your training to be a therapist, when you,
2:45
Speaker 1: because there's stops and starts on your journey, which is
2:48
Speaker 1: true for all of us, I think, by the way,
2:50
Speaker 1: but your story is pretty unique. And by the way,
2:54
Speaker 1: I also have her on the podcast because she promised
2:56
Speaker 1: me to get a recording contract.
3:00
Speaker 2: Just for posterity, Tim did promise a duet today.
3:05
Speaker 1: So that.
3:08
Speaker 2: Might be on the blooper reel or the B-side or whatever.
3:11
Speaker 2: I don't know. So, yeah, I so I grew up.
3:17
Speaker 2: I went to college and recorded my first album while
3:21
Speaker 2: I was in college in Chicago, outside of Chicago. And, um,
3:25
Speaker 2: then lived in Chicago for a couple of years and
3:29
Speaker 2: then moved to Los Angeles where I pursued my career
3:33
Speaker 2: as a singer songwriter. I did lots of cool things, um,
3:38
Speaker 2: and got to travel a lot, got to win some
3:41
Speaker 2: con competitions, play with some amazing musicians. Um, I came
3:46
Speaker 2: up with a lot of people who are well known
3:49
Speaker 2: now and, um, So I just did a lot of,
3:55
Speaker 2: my career was built around performance because live performance is
3:58
Speaker 2: my favorite thing. That's where I'm really connecting with people
4:01
Speaker 2: and I love telling stories about the songs and then
4:03
Speaker 2: playing the songs and really connecting in that way. And
4:07
Speaker 2: then I met my husband who came to one of
4:13
Speaker 2: my concerts. About eight years afterwards, we went on a
4:18
Speaker 2: date and And then at the time, I was doing
4:24
Speaker 2: a lot of performing in Southeast Asia. And in that process,
4:29
Speaker 2: I learned a lot and saw a lot of sexual
4:32
Speaker 2: exploitation and got really interested in the anti-human trafficking world
4:37
Speaker 2: and decided that I wanted to do something in that
4:41
Speaker 2: space to do something meaningful in that space. Right before
4:47
Speaker 2: I had gone to Japan to play, I had also
4:50
Speaker 2: applied to be in the Peace Corps. So I had
4:53
Speaker 2: these kind of like two dueling interests that are very
4:58
Speaker 2: related in my mind and yet also totally separate pathways.
5:03
Speaker 2: And I walked through whichever door opened first and Japan
5:07
Speaker 2: opened first. And so I went there and I ended
5:11
Speaker 2: up then coming to the D.C. area working for an
5:14
Speaker 2: anti-human trafficking organization. Had a fellowship there. Eventually went back
5:18
Speaker 2: to a social work school in order to get my
5:21
Speaker 2: degree so that I could practice therapy. I started an
5:25
Speaker 2: anti-human trafficking program at an outpatient mental health clinic in
5:29
Speaker 2: the area. And kind of what happened is my life
5:34
Speaker 2: had been organized around music. And the way that I
5:38
Speaker 2: had made a career in music was from travel. And
5:40
Speaker 2: I also wanted to have children. And I also wanted to...
5:47
Speaker 2: This is so silly, but I wanted a washer and dryer.
5:51
Speaker 2: I wanted like some of the normalcy of kind of
5:57
Speaker 2: everyday life that I saw a lot of my peers,
5:59
Speaker 2: you know, they had official jobs and were like doing,
6:03
Speaker 2: doing things that seemed so grown up. And I was
6:05
Speaker 2: still like, Ooh, there's a nice couch on the side
6:08
Speaker 2: of the road. Let me use that to furnish my apartment. Um,
6:12
Speaker 2: which also was a beautiful life. Um, and I wanted these,
6:18
Speaker 2: I wanted, I never stopped loving music, but my dream,
6:22
Speaker 2: another dream of having a family and doing this work
6:27
Speaker 2: as a therapist, they couldn't both happen at the same time.
6:32
Speaker 2: And so I chose to have a family do this
6:39
Speaker 2: meaningful work as a social worker, and I put my
6:42
Speaker 2: music on hold. I didn't even know, would I come
6:44
Speaker 2: back to it? Would it... um, fit into my life anymore.
6:49
Speaker 2: How would it fit into my life? And there was
6:52
Speaker 2: a lot of grief around that. You know, I would
6:54
Speaker 2: go to people's concerts and I would cry and I would, um,
6:58
Speaker 2: feel really sad. I would really miss that piece of
7:02
Speaker 2: my life. And I was still writing songs. Um, there's
7:08
Speaker 2: a lot of material to write about in parenthood.
7:11
Speaker 1: Oh yeah.
7:13
Speaker 2: And so I would write some songs and, um, But
7:16
Speaker 2: I was writing them not for an album or not
7:18
Speaker 2: for touring. I was writing them because I wanted to
7:21
Speaker 2: express this part of my experience of parenthood that has
7:25
Speaker 2: just been so intense. And as I started to play them,
7:30
Speaker 2: people would respond with seeing themselves in them. And that's
7:37
Speaker 2: so joyful to do, so I wanted to get them
7:38
Speaker 2: out there. So that's kind of how it all evolved.
7:43
Speaker 2: And one of the things that I'm just thinking about
7:45
Speaker 2: is this idea that, this pressure, I think, for women
7:52
Speaker 2: to do it all. And I don't think it's possible
7:59
Speaker 2: to do it all. I think that we give our
8:02
Speaker 2: energy where we can, when we can. And I don't know,
8:08
Speaker 2: I'm always trying to remind myself of things like that
8:11
Speaker 2: because there's a part of me that thinks, you can
8:13
Speaker 2: do it all. Why aren't you doing it all? You're failing.
8:15
Speaker 2: You're not doing enough. You should be You should be,
8:18
Speaker 2: this is because of some defectiveness of you, not because
8:22
Speaker 2: it's actually impossible to raise three kids and have a
8:25
Speaker 2: therapy practice and be doing a music career.
8:30
Speaker 1: And if you live to be, I think the average
8:32
Speaker 1: age for women is like 88 or 90 or something,
8:35
Speaker 1: something like that. So you still have 50 years of
8:39
Speaker 1: life left to do all kinds of things. Sometimes I
8:43
Speaker 1: think it's not just women. I think we feel like
8:45
Speaker 1: we have to squish it all in, have it all.
8:47
Speaker 1: do it all. It's like, you have time where you can,
8:50
Speaker 1: so there may be certain times you put so much
8:52
Speaker 1: energy in one thing or the next. And I guess
8:54
Speaker 1: that's what you've learned, I guess, over the last, your
8:56
Speaker 1: oldest is 10. I forgot. The last 10 or so
9:00
Speaker 1: years you've, I guess you've learned, plus you kept songwriting. Yeah.
9:05
Speaker 2: A way of expressing myself. I did it for me. Not,
9:10
Speaker 2: you know, not in the same way that I'm, I
9:12
Speaker 2: did it in the past. And, as I'm trying to
9:15
Speaker 2: get these songs out, I'm sharing it with my experience
9:18
Speaker 2: with other people, and then they do with it what
9:21
Speaker 2: they will.
9:22
Speaker 1: I just talked to a girl the other day. I
9:24
Speaker 1: was counseling her. She just started high school, and she's
9:28
Speaker 1: really smart. And school has been easy, but she's been
9:31
Speaker 1: fighting her parents about studying and homework for years. But anyway,
9:34
Speaker 1: she's doing well now. But one of the things she
9:36
Speaker 1: said to me was how much pressure she's had, even
9:39
Speaker 1: just starting high school, about what classes to take. And
9:43
Speaker 1: because she's smart, this It's a private school. They're trying
9:45
Speaker 1: to get her to take AP classes and all this stuff.
9:48
Speaker 1: And they're pounding away about college and career. And she's like,
9:52
Speaker 1: she said, I realized that there's so much, and these
9:56
Speaker 1: are almost her exact words. She said, something to the
9:58
Speaker 1: effect of there's so much pressure about all that stuff
10:00
Speaker 1: about the future she said I lost my love of
10:02
Speaker 1: learning yes I wonder if you know because maybe when
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Speaker 1: you're on the road and you're grinding it out and
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Speaker 1: it's not all about making money but it's about having
10:12
Speaker 1: a living and.
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Speaker 2: Stuff you want to live right you want to have
10:15
Speaker 2: enough money to.
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Speaker 1: Live but you had a chance to step back and
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Speaker 1: And then do it for a different reason, just because
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Speaker 1: it fulfilled you, because it was an outlet, because whatever.
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Speaker 2: Yeah. And I love what that girl said. Gosh, don't
10:28
Speaker 2: we have a lot to learn from everyone? I love
10:32
Speaker 2: what she said, because that is definitely pressure that I experienced,
10:36
Speaker 2: that I grew up in a time where it was
10:38
Speaker 2: like very exciting. Women could do anything and you can
10:41
Speaker 2: be anything you want to be. And almost like kind
10:44
Speaker 2: of the back end of that, that I interpreted, internalized was,
10:48
Speaker 2: So if you're not who you think you should be,
10:50
Speaker 2: it's because of you. It's not because a human cannot
10:54
Speaker 2: do the 20,000 things and that there is some luck
11:00
Speaker 2: involved and that it's not kind of a straight line
11:06
Speaker 2: from here to there and that we don't always have
11:08
Speaker 2: to optimize ourselves. You can be good at something and
11:12
Speaker 2: still choose to not... push every place in which you
11:18
Speaker 2: have potential.
11:21
Speaker 1: So you have a new record out, album. I'm not
11:23
Speaker 1: sure what they call them today. So I'm curious about
11:27
Speaker 1: what prompted you to go from being a mom and
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Speaker 1: sort of journaling, journal slash songwriting to, okay, now I'm
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Speaker 1: ready to record again. What was the impetus for that?
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Speaker 2: You know, I'm not sure what was the exact impetus.
11:43
Speaker 2: inciting event. I think it was over time playing the
11:46
Speaker 2: songs for people and people resonating with them and people
11:51
Speaker 2: laughing along with my song parenthood that talks about kind
11:54
Speaker 2: of the, um, contradiction in, in being a parent of, of,
12:00
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, this is so hard, but Oh, it's
12:02
Speaker 2: so wonderful. But Oh my gosh, would they please go
12:04
Speaker 2: to school? But Oh, now they're at school and I
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Speaker 2: miss them, you know, kind of the both and of,
12:10
Speaker 2: of parenthood. Um, It's really connecting with people through them
12:15
Speaker 2: that just made me want to make it more official
12:18
Speaker 2: and give them a life, record them in ways that
12:22
Speaker 2: I would be really proud to share. And I must
12:26
Speaker 2: have had some spurt of energy. I don't know how
12:31
Speaker 2: that happened.
12:33
Speaker 1: Yeah. Extra energy, right?
12:35
Speaker 2: Yeah. I don't know where that came from.
12:38
Speaker 1: Some deep reserve. Yeah.
12:41
Speaker 2: And it's been really joyful with the kids because they
12:44
Speaker 2: have kind of come along with me in this journey.
12:47
Speaker 2: And someone was telling me that as my children were
12:53
Speaker 2: walking to the concert, that one of them was going,
12:55
Speaker 2: my mom's playing a concert. My mom's playing a concert.
12:59
Speaker 2: And I just, oh, my heart could just break.
13:03
Speaker 1: So they're like the cool kids because their mom's a
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Speaker 1: recording artist.
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Speaker 2: In third grade, they think I'm famous.
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Speaker 1: Not just a therapist. That would be like whatever.
13:13
Speaker 2: Yes, exactly.
13:15
Speaker 1: Exactly. And you sort of know the experience because both
13:19
Speaker 1: of your parents are musicians, it sounds like.
13:21
Speaker 2: That's right. Yeah. Yeah.
13:23
Speaker 1: So you have a sense of what they're going through.
13:26
Speaker 1: I looked for your songs. I found them on Spotify.
13:28
Speaker 1: I hope that's okay. And I listened to them. There's,
13:32
Speaker 1: I think, five or six songs on the new record.
13:36
Speaker 1: Is that right?
13:37
Speaker 2: Yeah, five. Five, yeah.
13:38
Speaker 1: Yeah. And they're very personal. One of them, I think
13:42
Speaker 1: you were motivated to write because of a loss that
13:48
Speaker 1: you experienced. And you sort of wrote a song about that,
13:50
Speaker 1: if you want to talk about that.
13:52
Speaker 2: Yeah. So between our first child and our twins, we
13:56
Speaker 2: had a miscarriage. And it was really hard. It was
14:02
Speaker 2: hard the specific way that it happened in our lives. And.
14:08
Speaker 2: So I wrote a song about it and it turns
14:13
Speaker 2: out that this is a very common experience for so
14:16
Speaker 2: many women and families. And there are so many reproductive
14:21
Speaker 2: experiences that are common and not spoken about, whether that's, um,
14:28
Speaker 2: the pressure and the choice to not have kids, whether
14:32
Speaker 2: that's fertility struggles, whether that's a miscarriage, whether that's, um,
14:38
Speaker 2: you know, deciding not to keep a pregnancy. There's so
14:41
Speaker 2: many choices that people have. And there, in my experience
14:46
Speaker 2: is a lot of judgment around those choices, a lot
14:49
Speaker 2: of pressure and sometimes a lot of shame. And so
14:53
Speaker 2: you're having this very private experience and no one knows
15:00
Speaker 2: you're not talking about it. You don't have anything tangible
15:05
Speaker 2: to point to, you know, did it matter? Does it matter?
15:09
Speaker 2: What does this mean? And so the process of writing
15:13
Speaker 2: Fly Away, which is my song about our particular struggle,
15:19
Speaker 2: was giving the experience voice, giving it name, having something
15:25
Speaker 2: tangible to represent this loss that we experienced, and also
15:31
Speaker 2: to make space and name a loss that so many
15:36
Speaker 2: people experience. so that we can, and I think things
15:42
Speaker 2: have improved so much, but so that we can not
15:45
Speaker 2: have to carry these very normal, sad, difficult choices and
15:52
Speaker 2: experiences by ourselves. I think there is healing in the collective.
15:59
Speaker 1: And I'm sure, I guess you probably noticed because you're
16:01
Speaker 1: a therapist, a lot of times when it's unspoken, it
16:04
Speaker 1: becomes shameful.
16:06
Speaker 2: Exactly. And I'm, I'm, I am, I rebel against that.
16:12
Speaker 2: I do not accept that version of, you know, I
16:15
Speaker 2: opened this show saying I was 48, not because, oh,
16:18
Speaker 2: I'm so old and I have nothing to say. I'm irrelevant. Right.
16:20
Speaker 2: I'm 48. I got something to say. And I'm going
16:23
Speaker 2: through perimenopause and let me tell you about what that
16:25
Speaker 2: experience is like. I don't, I reject the idea that we,
16:33
Speaker 2: we don't value. all of the different ways that life
16:39
Speaker 2: happens for people and getting older and there's so much
16:44
Speaker 2: to be gained. Yeah.
16:47
Speaker 1: We're talking with Kat Parsons. She is a singer-songwriter. She
16:51
Speaker 1: has a new album out. She's also a therapist and
16:54
Speaker 1: she also runs retreats for couples. She has all kinds
16:59
Speaker 1: of things. I'm curious about, you've talked some about how
17:02
Speaker 1: your parenting has affected your songwriting. I'm wondering how your
17:06
Speaker 1: your counseling practice has also affected your songwriting.
17:09
Speaker 2: Yeah. So I see one of the occupational hazards of
17:15
Speaker 2: being a therapist and a mother is that you spend
17:18
Speaker 2: all day with your clients learning how their childhood has been,
17:23
Speaker 2: has impacted them as adults and how much things have
17:30
Speaker 2: hurt and how much they've been hurt by people who
17:32
Speaker 2: love them. You know, parents, I think, I don't know
17:36
Speaker 2: that I've really met any parent who isn't trying and
17:40
Speaker 2: doesn't care and doesn't want to do right by their child.
17:44
Speaker 2: And yet we all are imperfect. And so what I
17:53
Speaker 2: would say is being a therapist and a mom has
17:55
Speaker 2: given me great anxiety, Tim, because what are the ways
18:01
Speaker 2: I'm doing that to my children and how can I
18:04
Speaker 2: be perfect? And, and, How do I accept my imperfection
18:10
Speaker 2: knowing that I want to get it right so bad
18:14
Speaker 2: for them? I just really want to get it right.
18:19
Speaker 2: And I'm getting some things right and some things I'm not.
18:25
Speaker 2: And part of what I've got to work on is
18:27
Speaker 2: my desire to get it all right and help them
18:32
Speaker 2: learn that it's okay to be imperfect and that everyone's
18:34
Speaker 2: going to be okay.
18:37
Speaker 1: I'm curious with your busy life, I'm curious, what's your,
18:40
Speaker 1: I'm not sure the way, your process for writing songs?
18:44
Speaker 1: Do you set aside time when you're at school? Do
18:47
Speaker 1: you have an office? Do you go out into the park?
18:50
Speaker 1: What's your process for writing your songs?
18:53
Speaker 2: Well, I usually have an idea and I sit down
18:57
Speaker 2: at the piano and sometimes that's amidst the chaos of
19:01
Speaker 2: whatever's happening in our home and I get my little
19:04
Speaker 2: voice memo out And I just start singing and playing.
19:07
Speaker 2: And sometimes in the background, you'll hear some screaming. And
19:12
Speaker 2: sometimes I'll be there by myself. And I just kind
19:15
Speaker 2: of find the song as I sit down. And usually
19:18
Speaker 2: it's come from, oh, I really want to express that.
19:21
Speaker 2: I really want to talk about that idea. And I'm
19:24
Speaker 2: not even sure where it's going to go or what
19:26
Speaker 2: it's going to be. But there's like a physical, visceral
19:30
Speaker 2: experience of sitting there and just singing.
19:33
Speaker 1: Yeah. You wrote on your side, I think, or somewhere
19:38
Speaker 1: that one of your kids told you when they were
19:41
Speaker 1: really little that they didn't want to grow up because
19:44
Speaker 1: then they wouldn't be your sweetheart.
19:46
Speaker 2: Yeah.
19:47
Speaker 1: And that became one of your songs, which I listened
19:49
Speaker 1: to on Spotify.
19:50
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah. You'll always be my sweetheart. My child was
19:54
Speaker 2: two when they said that. Two.
19:57
Speaker 1: Wow.
19:58
Speaker 2: Wow. That's a pretty big thought for anyone. Yeah.
20:03
Speaker 1: Especially for a two-year-old.
20:04
Speaker 2: And boy, can I relate the grief that things change. That...
20:10
Speaker 2: and they will always be my sweetheart and that won't change,
20:12
Speaker 2: but surely our relationship shifts and their needs shift. And,
20:20
Speaker 2: you know, there's a poet named David White who has
20:23
Speaker 2: this quote that parenting, parenthood will break your heart even
20:27
Speaker 2: if everything goes right. And boy, does that resonate like the,
20:33
Speaker 2: the grief of, um, even just, I remember as a
20:38
Speaker 2: new parent feeling so much pressure to enjoy and not enjoying.
20:43
Speaker 2: I was really tired and I thought it was so hard.
20:48
Speaker 2: And then I was so stressed cause I wasn't enjoying
20:50
Speaker 2: it more. And so I've had to redefine like, what
20:54
Speaker 2: does presence mean? What does the sweetness, my album's called
20:57
Speaker 2: the sweetness is now, what does the sweetness mean? And
21:00
Speaker 2: maybe presence and sweetness and, um, is in a kiss,
21:11
Speaker 2: is 10 seconds, is a smile, is a moment. Maybe
21:15
Speaker 2: it's not sustained mindfulness, and I'm always enjoying this. But
21:20
Speaker 2: it's an eye contact or something really brief. And I
21:27
Speaker 2: think her saying, you know, if I grow up, then
21:32
Speaker 2: I won't be your sweetheart. There's something that's like, yeah,
21:36
Speaker 2: it changes. And it's fleeting. And it makes it scary,
21:41
Speaker 2: but also precious. But it's still hard amidst all of that.
21:46
Speaker 2: And it's all of these things all rolled up into one.
21:48
Speaker 2: And it seems to me like oftentimes influencers or social
21:53
Speaker 2: media would have you believe it's all one thing. And
21:56
Speaker 2: this isn't ambivalence towards parenthood that I'm talking about. It's
22:03
Speaker 2: really experiencing both the intensity of the joy and the
22:07
Speaker 2: intensity of the hard.
22:11
Speaker 1: We're talking with Kat Parsons. She is a musician. She
22:18
Speaker 1: has a new album out, but she also is a therapist,
22:21
Speaker 1: and she has some retreats that she does. She has
22:23
Speaker 1: all kinds of things, and she's a mother of three.
22:25
Speaker 1: I'm curious about what you've learned, because lots of parents
22:29
Speaker 1: who are listening to this probably sometimes sit back and
22:32
Speaker 1: think that their life is like this jumble of things.
22:34
Speaker 1: I'm wondering what you've learned about keeping things organized so
22:38
Speaker 1: you can do all these things.
22:40
Speaker 2: God nothing okay thanks so much for being on the
22:45
Speaker 2: show good luck everybody good.
22:48
Speaker 1: Luck yeah but you but you are but you have
22:51
Speaker 1: everybody has a process over time you learn about how
22:55
Speaker 1: can i you know do these.
22:57
Speaker 2: Things yeah i think um again it's not waiting for
23:01
Speaker 2: it to be perfect It's not waiting for it to
23:04
Speaker 2: be finished. It's not waiting for it to be easy.
23:06
Speaker 2: It's not waiting until I've reached self-enlightenment and Maslow's hierarchy
23:10
Speaker 2: of needs. It's not waiting until I handle everything my
23:14
Speaker 2: kids do well before I can feel good about myself,
23:17
Speaker 2: before I can give myself permission to try something or
23:21
Speaker 2: rest or make a mistake or make a choice that
23:26
Speaker 2: means that I'm closing the door on one thing while
23:28
Speaker 2: opening the door on another thing. It's... A lot of self-compassion,
23:36
Speaker 2: which I think can be really hard, especially, you know,
23:39
Speaker 2: one of the things I've heard you talk about on
23:40
Speaker 2: your podcast is like the good girl kind of pressure
23:44
Speaker 2: of perfectionism and doing it all. And I want to
23:50
Speaker 2: be a voice that says nobody's perfect and we can't
23:55
Speaker 2: do it all. And we get to make choices about
23:57
Speaker 2: the things that we put time and energy into and
24:01
Speaker 2: sometimes that means there are other things we don't put
24:03
Speaker 2: time and energy into but there's like there's grief and
24:06
Speaker 2: loss and joy and love in almost everything you can't
24:10
Speaker 2: love without there being some loss sometimes and you can't
24:14
Speaker 2: lose without having loved so I just really want to
24:20
Speaker 2: be honest about my experience and not be another person
24:22
Speaker 2: who says like oh well here's the trick you know
24:25
Speaker 2: I've used this system and now Everything is completely under control.
24:30
Speaker 2: Don't come to my house, but everything is completely under control.
24:36
Speaker 1: I think one of the things I'm hearing from you, though,
24:39
Speaker 1: is that you're going through this process consciously. It sounds
24:43
Speaker 1: like you're not just, I don't know, I think a
24:46
Speaker 1: lot of times people are sleepwalking, not even aware of
24:49
Speaker 1: how they're feeling or what's going on. It sounds like
24:52
Speaker 1: you're doing it more consciously. Yeah. I think that's important.
24:57
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, for sure.
25:00
Speaker 1: Tell my listeners about your weekend retreats, if that's something that.
25:04
Speaker 2: You'd like to talk about. So the therapy modality that
25:07
Speaker 2: I practice is called relational life therapy, and I do
25:11
Speaker 2: two weekends a year called the Relationship Boot Camp, which
25:15
Speaker 2: is out of this model, RLT. It's a weekend, and
25:20
Speaker 2: it's with a group of couples, and it is a
25:23
Speaker 2: beautiful experience watching everyone do this work, on their relationship
25:28
Speaker 2: and gain so much from being together and from a
25:34
Speaker 2: lot of psychoeducation and a two-day workshop. It's really a.
25:40
Speaker 1: Lot of fun. And where do you live? Which city?
25:45
Speaker 2: I live in Easton, Maryland. Oh.
25:48
Speaker 1: So are these retreats out that way?
25:50
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, they're in Maryland. I've done a few with
25:54
Speaker 2: a therapist, a colleague. in Annapolis, Maryland, and I have
25:58
Speaker 2: one coming up this spring in Easton, Maryland.
26:02
Speaker 1: So if people wanted to get a hold of you
26:05
Speaker 1: to get information about that, and also if they want
26:09
Speaker 1: to get your songs and your music, how would they
26:11
Speaker 1: find you? There may be two different places.
26:13
Speaker 2: I have two different names for that. I have katparsons.com,
26:18
Speaker 2: which is K-A-T-P-A-R-S-O-N-S dot com, And you can go to
26:23
Speaker 2: slash connect and enter your email in there, and you
26:27
Speaker 2: will hear some of my new music and some thoughts.
26:32
Speaker 2: And then I have my therapy practice, which is my
26:34
Speaker 2: married name, and that's klptherapy.com. And that's K as in kitchen,
26:40
Speaker 2: L love, P Paul.
26:41
Speaker 1: Klptherapy.com?
26:45
Speaker 2: Yes, and that's Katherine Petzold. You never know who you're
26:48
Speaker 2: talking to, Tim. It's a.
26:54
Speaker 1: I will put as always for the people who are
26:56
Speaker 1: listening and they're walking around the neighborhood or something I'll
26:59
Speaker 1: put these in my show notes these links so that
27:02
Speaker 1: you can you don't have to write them down now
27:03
Speaker 1: or remember them yeah that'll be there for you before
27:09
Speaker 1: we close I'm just curious about with your history up
27:14
Speaker 1: till now what's next.
27:18
Speaker 2: Oh what is next um I'm performing some with this
27:23
Speaker 2: new music, and I want to get these songs. I mean,
27:29
Speaker 2: right now, I'm really focused on getting these songs to
27:33
Speaker 2: people who they resonate with. I don't know if you
27:38
Speaker 2: play any music on this show, but I was thinking
27:43
Speaker 2: about one of my songs when I was listening to
27:45
Speaker 2: some of your previous podcasts called Let My Love, and
27:49
Speaker 2: I It's kind of a reminder to myself when I'm
27:53
Speaker 2: feeling anxious about my kids' relationships or them hurting themselves
28:00
Speaker 2: in terms of falling and having difficulty and backing off.
28:07
Speaker 2: A reminder to myself, let my love protect your heart
28:10
Speaker 2: and I want you to experience what you need to
28:14
Speaker 2: experience and find your way because you knowing and trusting
28:18
Speaker 2: yourself and knowing that you can find your way. And
28:21
Speaker 2: me saying, I believe you can find your way is
28:24
Speaker 2: what leads to resiliency and what allows us to be
28:28
Speaker 2: in relationships when we're not afraid of feelings or afraid
28:33
Speaker 2: of mistakes or afraid of pain. And man, it's that
28:35
Speaker 2: hard to watch as a parent. So yeah, getting this
28:40
Speaker 2: music into as many ears as need to hear it.
28:44
Speaker 1: Last question, because I said that before, but Do you
28:47
Speaker 1: hear from the people who listen to your music? Do
28:51
Speaker 1: you get feedback like, oh my God, that's me or whatever?
28:55
Speaker 2: Oh, that is the best. Yes, I do. And it
28:59
Speaker 2: is just the most satisfying thing and allows me, you know,
29:03
Speaker 2: I talked earlier about being more, like not carrying these
29:08
Speaker 2: experiences in private. Hearing how it resonates with so many
29:13
Speaker 2: people just kind of, shores up the idea that we're
29:17
Speaker 2: all in this together. And many of us are having
29:22
Speaker 2: the same doubts and questions and wonderings and joy and
29:27
Speaker 2: exhaustion and all of the things together. Yeah, it's really beautiful.
29:33
Speaker 2: That's my favorite part. Yeah.
29:35
Speaker 1: Well, you're making a difference in a lot of different ways,
29:37
Speaker 1: which is great. As a spouse, as a mother, as
29:40
Speaker 1: a musician, as a songwriter, as a therapist, as a
29:43
Speaker 1: couples retreat thingy. So good for you. Good for you
29:47
Speaker 1: for doing all that. And thanks so much for being
29:50
Speaker 1: on the show. I appreciate you coming by and talking. Again,
29:54
Speaker 1: the place people can get the.
29:55
Speaker 2: Music is katparsons.com with a K-A-T Parsons dot com. P-A-R-S-O-N-S
30:03
Speaker 2: dot com.
30:05
Speaker 1: Thanks again so much and best of luck with whatever's next.
30:08
Speaker 2: Thanks so much for having me.
30:15
Speaker 1: Well, that was fun. I hope you enjoyed it and
30:17
Speaker 1: got something out of that and look for Kat's new
30:21
Speaker 1: album on Spotify or on her site. I will be
30:25
Speaker 1: back in a in a week with a brand new podcast. Also,
30:29
Speaker 1: make sure you check out my website at www.drtimjordan.com because
30:36
Speaker 1: I have the whole catalog of all the podcasts I've done.
30:39
Speaker 1: This is 402. So there's lots of podcasts. All seven
30:43
Speaker 1: of my books are on there. My retreats, everything, all
30:46
Speaker 1: the information about how to get a hold of me
30:48
Speaker 1: and my resources are on there. So that might be helpful.
30:51
Speaker 1: I will see you back here in a week. Thank
30:53
Speaker 1: you so much for stopping by.