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Crowdfunded Loans Helping Small Business Grow · Bloomberg Intelligence

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Welcome to the Bloomberg Markets Podcast. I'm Paul Sweeney. Alongside
• 0:04
  Speaker 1: my co host Matt Miller. Every business day we bring
• 0:06
  Speaker 1: you interviews from CEOs, market pros, and Bloomberg experts, along
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: with essential market moving news. Find the Bloomberg Markets Podcast
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: on Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to podcasts, and
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: at Bloomberg dot com slash podcast. We have been hearing
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: a lot about helping out businesses, small businesses, about helping
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: out marginalized businesses, women and minorities over the past couple
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: of days from the big gigantic bank CEOs on Capitol Hill. UM.
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  Speaker 1: But they typically come out with surprisingly small numbers. Really, UM,
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: I guess Goldman Sachs is a really is a real exception.
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: They've been doing this ten thousand small business program for
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: our decade now. But Chris Saklakis joins us right now.
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: He's the CEO of a global nonprofit called Kiva, which
• 0:56
  Speaker 1: is really a micro financing business that aims at UM
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: marginalized business owners UM to raise and disperse crowdfunded loans. UM. Chris,
• 1:10
  Speaker 1: welcome to the program. Thanks for joining us. What a
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: time to be in this business. How did you get
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: into this because I know you came from the famous
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  Speaker 1: online wine platform Vivino. Yeah. So I've been at Kiva
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  Speaker 1: precisely one month in two days, so I'm very to it.
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: But yeah, exactly so. Uh what I what I decided
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: when I left Vino was that I really liked technology
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: and online marketplaces, but I wanted I wanted to put
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: my expertise to better use, and I wanted to I
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: wanted to fulfill two things. One was to be a
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  Speaker 1: positive role model for my sons, who are both teenagers,
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  Speaker 1: and to work in the organization that actually has a
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  Speaker 1: positive impact on people's lives. And so when Civa came along,
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  Speaker 1: it was a perfect combination of those two things. We use.
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  Speaker 1: We Kiva used technology through an online marketplace kiva dot org,
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  Speaker 1: where lenders can come in UH and find information on
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  Speaker 1: borrowers in the United States and around the world and
• 2:12
  Speaker 1: decide on how much they want to give as a loan,
• 2:15
  Speaker 1: And they can give as little as twenty five dollars
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  Speaker 1: UH to fund a loan for someone in Cambodia who's
• 2:22
  Speaker 1: trying to buy seed for a farm, or someone in
• 2:25
  Speaker 1: the United States who's trying to establish a restaurant. So Chris,
• 2:31
  Speaker 1: You know, this pandemic obviously has been hugely disruptive, disruptive
• 2:34
  Speaker 1: to the entire planet, to the economics of the entire planet,
• 2:39
  Speaker 1: and particularly on small businesses, minority businesses, things like that.
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  Speaker 1: So as you think about your company, your effort at Kiva,
• 2:48
  Speaker 1: how do you expect your business to change maybe going
• 2:51
  Speaker 1: forward as you probably interact with a lot of these
• 2:53
  Speaker 1: small businesses that have been impacted, Well, a lot of
• 2:58
  Speaker 1: what we're doing is continue knewing what we've done in
• 3:01
  Speaker 1: the past. We we made some big shifts during COVID
• 3:04
  Speaker 1: last year, but over the course of the fifteen year
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  Speaker 1: history of Kiva, we have funded over one point five
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  Speaker 1: billion dollars worth of loans to to nearly four million
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  Speaker 1: people in seventy seven countries, and roughly ten percent of
• 3:20
  Speaker 1: what we've done over the last few years has gone
• 3:22
  Speaker 1: to businesses in the United States. The people we target
• 3:26
  Speaker 1: are people who traditionally aren't able to get loans. We
• 3:30
  Speaker 1: call them the unbanked, the people who don't have access
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  Speaker 1: to financial services. And so as part of what we
• 3:36
  Speaker 1: did with COVID, we were available, we were able to
• 3:40
  Speaker 1: provide loans to people who would get rejected from other
• 3:44
  Speaker 1: banks people who couldn't get p PP loans, and so
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  Speaker 1: very often those are minorities of black and Latin X
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  Speaker 1: business owners women. UM. In fact, the vast majority of
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  Speaker 1: the loans we do in the United States, UM are
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  Speaker 1: too are two women and two people of color and immigrants. Right.
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  Speaker 1: I mean, how many times have I been in a
• 4:06
  Speaker 1: cab in New York City only to find out that
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  Speaker 1: my driver is actually was a doctor when he was
• 4:12
  Speaker 1: working in Bulgaria or something crazy like that, UM, and
• 4:16
  Speaker 1: just doesn't have any credit or any access to the
• 4:18
  Speaker 1: financial system when he gets to the US. Yeah, that's right.
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  Speaker 1: So we we fund a lot of immigrants. Most of
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  Speaker 1: our funding goes to entrepreneurs, people who are starting businesses
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  Speaker 1: or who have businesses as who want to continue. And
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  Speaker 1: one of the reasons Kiva was so resonant for me
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  Speaker 1: is because my parents are immigrants. They immigrated from Greece.
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  Speaker 1: When my dad came here, he really had nothing. He
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  Speaker 1: started as a laborer in the steel mill. He eventually
• 4:43
  Speaker 1: became an apprentice with an electrician, became qualified electricians, started
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  Speaker 1: his own electrical contracting business, and then started real listening
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  Speaker 1: to the development. But he couldn't have started that business
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  Speaker 1: or done his real estate development without access to capital,
• 4:57
  Speaker 1: without a loan. And so the loans that you give
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  Speaker 1: to small businesses with Kiva resonate with me because they
• 5:04
  Speaker 1: go to entrepreneurs just like my dad. Chris gives a
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  Speaker 1: sense just briefly about thirty seconds, kind of the financial
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  Speaker 1: returns for the folks that do crowds fund these loans.
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  Speaker 1: How's how's it worked out. Yeah, So if you're a
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  Speaker 1: lender on Kiva, it's a zero interest, zero percent interest loan,
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  Speaker 1: but there's the repayment rate historically has been so if
• 5:24
  Speaker 1: you put in a hundred dollars today, over the course
• 5:27
  Speaker 1: of the next two years, you'll get ninety six dollars back,
• 5:30
  Speaker 1: and then you can re lend that money if you want.
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  Speaker 1: So relative to a donation, Uh, this is this is
• 5:37
  Speaker 1: a loan. The money comes back and then you can
• 5:39
  Speaker 1: re lend it. If you keep the money in the
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  Speaker 1: Kiva system for a period of four or five years,
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  Speaker 1: that hundred dollars could result in five hundred, six hundred
• 5:46
  Speaker 1: dollars worth of loans back to people who needed That's
• 5:50
  Speaker 1: very ingenious. I was trying to think about how the
• 5:52
  Speaker 1: economics of that work, and you should do a reverse
• 5:54
  Speaker 1: repo facility. You know, the FED got I think four
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  Speaker 1: eight six billion dollars at zero present yesterday from like
• 6:01
  Speaker 1: fifty banks. Um. No, it's a fascinating business, and yours
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  Speaker 1: is I think a really interesting story. Chris. So, it's great,
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  Speaker 1: um to have smart people like you doing this kind
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  Speaker 1: of good work to help. You know, other people out
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  Speaker 1: there just want to get a lug up, just need
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  Speaker 1: to get into the system. Chris Sokolochus, there is the
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  Speaker 1: CEO of Kiva. This is Bloomberg. Are bringing Laurence sour
• 6:28
  Speaker 1: right now, Associate Professor of Emergency Medicine at Johns Hopkins
• 6:32
  Speaker 1: School of Medicine, And Lauren, I got a question. I've
• 6:36
  Speaker 1: always thought about this, and I think because of the pandemic,
• 6:40
  Speaker 1: I finally know the answer, but I want to hear
• 6:42
  Speaker 1: it from you. You know, there've been anti vaxers around forever,
• 6:46
  Speaker 1: and I always thought, like, who cares if their kids
• 6:49
  Speaker 1: aren't vaccinated? As long as my kids are. Now, the
• 6:53
  Speaker 1: same question is coming up in terms of COVID, like
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  Speaker 1: if of the public doesn't get vaccinated, does it matter
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  Speaker 1: to the six of us that does. Yeah, I think
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  Speaker 1: I definitely think it matters because I think we have
• 7:06
  Speaker 1: this sort of social contract and depending on the thresholds
• 7:10
  Speaker 1: that people that people are looking at, it changes how
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  Speaker 1: safe it is to reopen and be in public, And
• 7:15
  Speaker 1: especially with the disease like this, where we don't actually
• 7:17
  Speaker 1: know what reinfection is going to look like and what
• 7:20
  Speaker 1: the potential future threats are UM, the more people getting
• 7:24
  Speaker 1: vaccinated can only be better. When you think about people
• 7:27
  Speaker 1: who are sort of anti vacts and UM, especially in
• 7:30
  Speaker 1: the pediatric population, they're making decisions for kids who don't
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  Speaker 1: have sort of a say in that process, and on
• 7:37
  Speaker 1: top of that before they were born. Yeah, that's true. UM,
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  Speaker 1: but there are kids who and kids and teachers and
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  Speaker 1: parents and family members of those kids who are not
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  Speaker 1: vaccinated who can't get vaccinated for various reasons. They may
• 7:51
  Speaker 1: have a vaccine allergy, or they may have an immune
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  Speaker 1: compromise situation or UM. You know, there's several reasons why
• 7:57
  Speaker 1: people may not be able to get vaccinated, and so
• 8:00
  Speaker 1: then you're putting those people at risk. So that's a
• 8:02
  Speaker 1: good point. In fact, I read a story I think
• 8:04
  Speaker 1: maybe it was in the Times about UM. For example,
• 8:07
  Speaker 1: people who have received organ transplants UM aren't really aren't
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  Speaker 1: able to be vaccinated or the vaccine doesn't work as
• 8:15
  Speaker 1: well for them. My theory had been this, Lauren, I thought,
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  Speaker 1: you know, what do I care if somebody in the
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  Speaker 1: bar isn't vaccinated and has COVID. As long as I am,
• 8:23
  Speaker 1: I'm not going to get it. But what I was
• 8:26
  Speaker 1: thinking is maybe if too much, if too many people
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  Speaker 1: don't get vaccinated, then the virus lives on and it
• 8:30
  Speaker 1: you takes into something even crazier, and then it overtakes
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  Speaker 1: my vaccine power. Yeah, I think that's always a risk.
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  Speaker 1: I mean, mutations, variants are are going to continue to
• 8:40
  Speaker 1: be a risk and um, and you could have a
• 8:44
  Speaker 1: situation like we don't know about sterilizing immunity as as
• 8:47
  Speaker 1: much as we want to yet, right, So you could
• 8:50
  Speaker 1: have a situation where you're on the tail end of
• 8:52
  Speaker 1: meeting another vaccination, you get a low grade infection from
• 8:55
  Speaker 1: that person and and it does overtake your vaccine, or
• 8:59
  Speaker 1: you take very low grade infection that you may not
• 9:02
  Speaker 1: even know that you have to someone else. And so
• 9:05
  Speaker 1: there's there's situations where this chain of events happens, putting
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  Speaker 1: people who have no choice in the matter at risk.
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  Speaker 1: And that's where we want to really target, UM, bringing
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  Speaker 1: people who are not interested currently to getting vaccinated to
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  Speaker 1: the table and say what's stopping you, what's holding you back?
• 9:20
  Speaker 1: What can we do to support bringing you to the
• 9:23
  Speaker 1: vaccine table. How about something that's maybe even I think simpler,
• 9:27
  Speaker 1: which is simply masking Here in New York, so I
• 9:31
  Speaker 1: guess we're we've had a week or two of you
• 9:33
  Speaker 1: don't have to mask indoor? Uh In New Jersey. As
• 9:36
  Speaker 1: of today where I live, you don't have to mask
• 9:39
  Speaker 1: indoor and you can actually stand at a bar and
• 9:41
  Speaker 1: have a drink. I think, God forbid. What are your thoughts,
• 9:44
  Speaker 1: Lauren about masking indoors? Let's just let' let's assume the
• 9:49
  Speaker 1: outdoors is you know, that's pretty clear, clear cut. But
• 9:51
  Speaker 1: what do you think about indoors? Yeah? For me, I
• 9:54
  Speaker 1: think the risk is still high enough. My personal opinion
• 9:58
  Speaker 1: is that I would so mask indoors wherever possible. UM.
• 10:02
  Speaker 1: I think in general, we've relaxed these indoor mask mandates
• 10:06
  Speaker 1: too soon. We're getting really close, and I think everyone's
• 10:10
  Speaker 1: just so excited to you know, quote unquote get back
• 10:12
  Speaker 1: to normal that they're willing to let their guard down.
• 10:15
  Speaker 1: And I think that is where we get into a
• 10:17
  Speaker 1: little bit of a high risk situation, and and masking
• 10:20
  Speaker 1: is not you know, it's it's not that hard to do,
• 10:24
  Speaker 1: and it is a simple step that we can take
• 10:27
  Speaker 1: to protect ourselves and protect those other people that we
• 10:30
  Speaker 1: were just talking about, you know. And so for me,
• 10:32
  Speaker 1: I would like to see the mask the masking continue indoors,
• 10:36
  Speaker 1: especially in those more crowded locations, until we get to
• 10:39
  Speaker 1: those higher vaccinated levels. You know. Um, we're finally starting
• 10:44
  Speaker 1: to look at the most at the simplest possible explanation
• 10:48
  Speaker 1: for how this virus um got started at a market
• 10:51
  Speaker 1: in Wuhan, down the street from a coronavirus lab in Wuhan.
• 10:56
  Speaker 1: But even if the quote unquote conspiracy area's proved true,
• 11:01
  Speaker 1: does it really matter where it came from to the
• 11:03
  Speaker 1: medical field? Do you need those details? No? I mean,
• 11:10
  Speaker 1: I think I think it matters to some people, and
• 11:12
  Speaker 1: I think there's always an interest in exploring origins, But
• 11:16
  Speaker 1: I don't think we're going to get there with some
• 11:18
  Speaker 1: targeted um exploration of whether or not this is a
• 11:22
  Speaker 1: cover up, or whether or not the origins were because
• 11:26
  Speaker 1: of some some purposeful or unintentional things that happened in
• 11:29
  Speaker 1: a lab. You know that we don't need that information
• 11:33
  Speaker 1: to improve our response the next time we have a pandemic.
• 11:37
  Speaker 1: We don't need that information to take care of these patients.
• 11:40
  Speaker 1: We don't need that information clearly to build vaccines, to
• 11:43
  Speaker 1: build therapeutics. What we need is to focus those efforts
• 11:47
  Speaker 1: on how we get out of this pandemic and how
• 11:49
  Speaker 1: we move move the global health forward to be able
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: to prepare for the next one. And that's not through
• 11:55
  Speaker 1: an origins discussion. Lauren, thank you so much once again
• 11:59
  Speaker 1: for join as you do every week, and we really
• 12:01
  Speaker 1: appreciate your time. Laurence Sour, Social Professor of Emergency Medicine
• 12:04
  Speaker 1: at Johns Hopkins School of Medicine. We should note that
• 12:06
  Speaker 1: the Bloomberg School of Public Health is supported by Michael
• 12:08
  Speaker 1: Are Bloomberg found Our, Bloomberg LP, Bloomberg Philanthropies, and this
• 12:11
  Speaker 1: radio operation. Cities across the United States and the state
• 12:17
  Speaker 1: of California, they're starting to make a case for local reparations.
• 12:22
  Speaker 1: Are good. Folks at Bloomberg Business Week took a deep
• 12:25
  Speaker 1: dive one of those cities. Susan Burfield. Burfield, Senior investigative
• 12:29
  Speaker 1: reporter for Bloomberg Business Week, uh and also the author
• 12:32
  Speaker 1: of The Hour of Fate, Theodore Roosevelt, JP Morgan, and
• 12:35
  Speaker 1: the Battle to Transform American Capitalism. So thanks so much
• 12:39
  Speaker 1: for joining us here. You guys took a look at
• 12:41
  Speaker 1: this whole reparation's issue as it relates to a small
• 12:45
  Speaker 1: town of Evanston, Illinois. What did you guys find? Yeah,
• 12:49
  Speaker 1: so thanks so much for having me on. So Evanston,
• 12:52
  Speaker 1: Illinois is um uh, as you said, a small city
• 12:55
  Speaker 1: just north of Chicago, and UM, it has the distinction
• 12:59
  Speaker 1: of being the first city in the US to offer
• 13:03
  Speaker 1: reparations to its black residents, and UM, the first kind
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: of effort that it's making, UM is to redress the
• 13:12
  Speaker 1: housing discrimination UM that many black residents faced beginning as
• 13:17
  Speaker 1: far back as nineteen nineteen. I'd say that I absolutely
• 13:22
  Speaker 1: loved the story, Susan. It was really the kind of
• 13:26
  Speaker 1: it was like a book you just can't put down.
• 13:28
  Speaker 1: I was taking care of my baby and trying to
• 13:31
  Speaker 1: feed her bottle, and I just I couldn't really do
• 13:33
  Speaker 1: anything until I no, I mean, I just I I
• 13:38
  Speaker 1: noticed that she couldn't distract me. I was. I found
• 13:42
  Speaker 1: it really fascinating And at first, you know, it starts
• 13:45
  Speaker 1: out really disturbing, because, Um, I was reading about Lucia's
• 13:49
  Speaker 1: Sutton at the very beginning, and I was thinking, how
• 13:52
  Speaker 1: is this possible, this kind of injustice in you know,
• 13:56
  Speaker 1: the nineteen hundreds, that's my century. I could have imagine
• 14:00
  Speaker 1: it happening in the eighteen hundreds. But it's just, Um,
• 14:04
  Speaker 1: it's something everyone should read, even people who have been
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: have become kind of numb to the social justice and
• 14:11
  Speaker 1: the Congressman we're talking about woke capitalism. But when you
• 14:14
  Speaker 1: read this, you can understand why it's worth fighting for. Um.
• 14:19
  Speaker 1: The one thing I kept thinking to myself, Susan, is yes,
• 14:23
  Speaker 1: you run into these real problems, especially on the local level,
• 14:26
  Speaker 1: and you make this point in the story, if it's
• 14:29
  Speaker 1: done on a federal level, it would be you'd have
• 14:32
  Speaker 1: less you'd have fewer problems. Right. Yeah. Well, first of all,
• 14:36
  Speaker 1: just thanks so much for the kind words about the story. UM.
• 14:40
  Speaker 1: It was been a wonderful privilege really to be able
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: to spend so much time on it, um and with
• 14:47
  Speaker 1: people in Evanston, so um it kind of makes me
• 14:50
  Speaker 1: want to move to Evanston. It's a beautiful place and
• 14:55
  Speaker 1: they're good apparently good that they're good people. For the
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: most part, right, they if they're taking this on, Yeah,
• 15:00
  Speaker 1: they're trying to do the right thing. And you know,
• 15:03
  Speaker 1: to your question, UM, you know, at the local level, UM,
• 15:07
  Speaker 1: at it. You know, in a city like Evanston or
• 15:10
  Speaker 1: in any city in the US, UM, there are always
• 15:13
  Speaker 1: going to be different points of view about what reparations
• 15:19
  Speaker 1: should look like at the local level, you know, and
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: part of that is kind of what kind of discrimination
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: or injustice to take on. First, how much money any
• 15:31
  Speaker 1: city is going to be able, uh to to use
• 15:36
  Speaker 1: to essentially you know, pay down the debt it owes
• 15:38
  Speaker 1: to its black residents. UM. And you know, just the
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: nature of city government or even state government. You know,
• 15:45
  Speaker 1: there's UM lots of opportunities for people to comment, so
• 15:50
  Speaker 1: you can hear very directly from lots of people. UM.
• 15:52
  Speaker 1: And you know, at the national level, UM, there's been
• 15:57
  Speaker 1: uh increasing MOMENTUM might say, UM ward the discussion. You know,
• 16:02
  Speaker 1: so the cities are taking it many steps further than
• 16:05
  Speaker 1: what's happening on the national level. But there is at
• 16:07
  Speaker 1: least the discussion. You know, there is UM. There are
• 16:11
  Speaker 1: studies that would help calculate how much reparations should be UM.
• 16:17
  Speaker 1: And of course that's chillions of dollars, and in Evanston
• 16:21
  Speaker 1: we're talking about millions of dollars. How does the process
• 16:25
  Speaker 1: actually work if someone feels that they are due reparations,
• 16:30
  Speaker 1: how's the process work? So in Evanston, UM, the first
• 16:34
  Speaker 1: round of money, which is about four hundred thousand dollars
• 16:39
  Speaker 1: UM and is going to be given out to recipients
• 16:41
  Speaker 1: this summer. UH and essentially anyone who lived in Evanston,
• 16:46
  Speaker 1: any black residents who lived in Evanston from nineteen nineteen
• 16:51
  Speaker 1: to nineteen sixty nine UM. That's the year after the
• 16:54
  Speaker 1: federal government passed the Fair Housing Act. So if you
• 16:59
  Speaker 1: lived in evans Been during that time, you're eligible and
• 17:02
  Speaker 1: you're given first priority. Second priority is to the descendants
• 17:07
  Speaker 1: of those people, and third priority is to a resident
• 17:11
  Speaker 1: who moved or lived in Evanston after that and can
• 17:16
  Speaker 1: show that they faced discrimination. It's hard for me, UM
• 17:22
  Speaker 1: to be flippant about this, because when you read about
• 17:25
  Speaker 1: the Cannon family, the Simmons family, what happened to the
• 17:28
  Speaker 1: Sutton family. UM, you just have to take it seriously.
• 17:32
  Speaker 1: But being flippant is in my nature, and I want
• 17:35
  Speaker 1: to say that it seems like the best thing you
• 17:38
  Speaker 1: can do for social justice. If you visit Evanston is
• 17:40
  Speaker 1: by weed, right, I mean because the first the money
• 17:45
  Speaker 1: that they're getting comes from the three percent cannabis tax
• 17:49
  Speaker 1: and they've only got one weed vendor in town. So
• 17:53
  Speaker 1: if you do go there, stop by and get yourself
• 17:56
  Speaker 1: a pre rolled joint or something. Yes, well you're not
• 17:59
  Speaker 1: the only one. The Alderman as they're called, Derek City
• 18:03
  Speaker 1: Council member UM who came up with the idea UM.
• 18:06
  Speaker 1: She's no longer serving, but I spoke to her while
• 18:08
  Speaker 1: she was still in office and her message was, you know,
• 18:11
  Speaker 1: come to Evanston and pleased buy drugs. Robin Ruth Simmons
• 18:15
  Speaker 1: was that it was the Alderman now, uh, well that
• 18:18
  Speaker 1: was Anne Rainey. Robin Ruth Simmons though UM is the
• 18:21
  Speaker 1: one who first proposed reparations UM idea UM and then
• 18:26
  Speaker 1: you know, worked with some other city council members to
• 18:29
  Speaker 1: help create it UM. And it was Anne Rainey who
• 18:32
  Speaker 1: came up with the idea of using the money from
• 18:34
  Speaker 1: this new tax, you know, money that was unclaimed UM
• 18:37
  Speaker 1: that they calculated would bring in about a million dollars
• 18:40
  Speaker 1: a year, and then they devoted UM the first ten
• 18:44
  Speaker 1: million dollars UM to the program, and you know, maybe
• 18:47
  Speaker 1: that will take ten years to pless maybe less well
• 18:49
  Speaker 1: hopefully UM, well they can raise those taxes a little bit.
• 18:52
  Speaker 1: I think everyone will be willing to pay a little
• 18:54
  Speaker 1: bit more UM for their for a good weed. But
• 18:56
  Speaker 1: I have to say now for you, as as senior
• 18:59
  Speaker 1: investigative report or UM, you may not notice, but as
• 19:03
  Speaker 1: for a regular person, the history that these people have discovered,
• 19:06
  Speaker 1: the research that they've put in to to go back three,
• 19:10
  Speaker 1: four or five generations and get you know, titles and
• 19:13
  Speaker 1: deeds and the stories that they have the story just
• 19:16
  Speaker 1: for that to me is worth it UM. I love
• 19:20
  Speaker 1: the family history that that they have discovered that you've
• 19:23
  Speaker 1: reported here. Susan, thanks so much for joining us UM.
• 19:26
  Speaker 1: Susan Bearfield and Jordan Holman wrote the story first US
• 19:30
  Speaker 1: City Too Back Reparations meets hard Reality. Now let's delve
• 19:38
  Speaker 1: into crypto. I don't think we've mentioned bitcoin at all today.
• 19:42
  Speaker 1: Paul or Doge or ether or Tether. Mike mcgloan joins
• 19:47
  Speaker 1: US Commodities Strategists for Bloomberg Intelligence on crypto UM. I mean,
• 19:54
  Speaker 1: the volatility has been amazing, but the lineup of guests
• 19:57
  Speaker 1: that we've had, Mike has been insane of the last week.
• 20:01
  Speaker 1: I have interviewed uh Nick Carter, who is a brilliant
• 20:06
  Speaker 1: writer from Castle Island Ventures, Sam Bankman Freed, who is
• 20:10
  Speaker 1: one of the richest people in America now and he's
• 20:12
  Speaker 1: only twenty nine. It's got like forty billion dollars in
• 20:16
  Speaker 1: crypto And Bobby Lee, who is a pioneer in the
• 20:20
  Speaker 1: space UM. He started BTC China and now has a
• 20:25
  Speaker 1: really cool UM hardware wallet out. Uh, Mike, what what
• 20:32
  Speaker 1: are your what's your current thinking on bitcoin? Is? We've
• 20:36
  Speaker 1: gone through these wild up and down swings. Is it
• 20:39
  Speaker 1: gonna Is it here to stay? The volatility for right now?
• 20:41
  Speaker 1: Are are we getting past it? Well? Hey, man, I
• 20:43
  Speaker 1: appreciate you mentioned some very smart people that I list
• 20:46
  Speaker 1: basically enjoyed those interviews, and I think the key thing
• 20:49
  Speaker 1: to think about in cryptos is it's a bool market
• 20:51
  Speaker 1: that's corrected. Got way too excited and I'm one of
• 20:54
  Speaker 1: the people got suckered into. What really brought me and
• 20:56
  Speaker 1: we thought it would continue up was when valtily dropped
• 20:59
  Speaker 1: sixty dave out and bitcoin dropped to the lowest of
• 21:01
  Speaker 1: the year right before the claps. It was like, oh,
• 21:04
  Speaker 1: typically that means it's going to go higher. So it
• 21:06
  Speaker 1: was a sign that was just way too much spec
• 21:08
  Speaker 1: to exus is you know the minute that dose coin
• 21:10
  Speaker 1: got in SATURNI live, that was the bell ringing. Okay,
• 21:13
  Speaker 1: let's look back now, let's look forward. Right now, Ethereums
• 21:17
  Speaker 1: up two on the year. The Bloomberg Galaxy Crypto index
• 21:21
  Speaker 1: is up a hundred percent. Bitcoins up, bitcoins add the
• 21:25
  Speaker 1: rest of the space. Ethereum is a stud and but
• 21:28
  Speaker 1: I think that's that that appreciates is going to continue
• 21:31
  Speaker 1: because the fundamental underpinions are still quite strong. How about
• 21:34
  Speaker 1: the regulatory overhang, it's beginning to build here. We've seen
• 21:38
  Speaker 1: some central bankers, including some folks in China. How do
• 21:41
  Speaker 1: you think about that. Yes, that's the key thing point
• 21:43
  Speaker 1: you brought that in there, and the key thing that
• 21:45
  Speaker 1: Kathy would said. There's just not much you can do
• 21:46
  Speaker 1: to really regulate bitcoin anymore. It's the world's largest decentralized network.
• 21:50
  Speaker 1: It's open source software. So China his his. What China
• 21:54
  Speaker 1: did recently, I think it's a good indication of how
• 21:57
  Speaker 1: significant bitcoin is now here. We have a country that
• 21:59
  Speaker 1: had let's not have I mean, it's becoming a surveillance state,
• 22:02
  Speaker 1: doesn't have free full capital, certainly doesn't have a discourse,
• 22:05
  Speaker 1: and they have to limit their their people from from
• 22:07
  Speaker 1: Winnie the Pooh and from the Internet, so they have
• 22:10
  Speaker 1: to limit Bitcoin and they have to limit flow of capital.
• 22:13
  Speaker 1: So that's a significant sign. But it's also what's going
• 22:15
  Speaker 1: to really tilt the US, I think to embrace it
• 22:17
  Speaker 1: more because there's a cold war that's really brilliant and
• 22:20
  Speaker 1: getting more and more. And that is what's I pointed
• 22:22
  Speaker 1: out on the crypto chat this morning, is it's the
• 22:24
  Speaker 1: digitalization of money. It's enhancing dollar dominance. The most widely
• 22:28
  Speaker 1: traded crypto on the planet is tether. I've mentioned this before.
• 22:31
  Speaker 1: It's double the volume of Bitcoin, and it's a digital dollar,
• 22:35
  Speaker 1: and it's an ethereum token. So key things there. Dollars
• 22:37
  Speaker 1: dominating ethereums gaining dominant theorems that significant, and the US
• 22:42
  Speaker 1: is probably gonna say, oh, we also have to do
• 22:45
  Speaker 1: is nothing here and we're beating China and the world
• 22:47
  Speaker 1: and this big battle against the two major powers. Is
• 22:51
  Speaker 1: there any um crypto token that you think is ideal
• 22:57
  Speaker 1: for spending Because my idea is somethings gonna come along
• 23:00
  Speaker 1: where people say, you know what, I don't care if
• 23:02
  Speaker 1: a regulator embraces this. I don't care if some central
• 23:05
  Speaker 1: bank says stay away and I'm gonna use this and
• 23:07
  Speaker 1: get around the system. The problem is, right now, it's
• 23:10
  Speaker 1: too difficult to do that with bitcoin because it's so
• 23:12
  Speaker 1: hard to spend. I'll be sarcastic tether. I mean, it's
• 23:16
  Speaker 1: a digital dollar, I'll be honest. The digital the global
• 23:19
  Speaker 1: reserve currency is the dollar, and it's gaining dominance despite
• 23:22
  Speaker 1: the fact US GDPs of client because after what's happened
• 23:24
  Speaker 1: in China and Hong Kong, the world SE's okay, okay,
• 23:27
  Speaker 1: it's not the best place in the world. It is
• 23:28
  Speaker 1: not the best, but the dollar is the best place,
• 23:30
  Speaker 1: the best thing to transact. And then there's this global
• 23:32
  Speaker 1: digital reserve asset. Now it used to be gold was
• 23:34
  Speaker 1: the digital store value. It's becoming more and more bitcoin.
• 23:38
  Speaker 1: So I think for spending dollars, it's actually gaining in
• 23:41
  Speaker 1: terms of digitalization. And as far as actually spending, it
• 23:45
  Speaker 1: depends what you mean by that. The key thing that's
• 23:47
  Speaker 1: really happening globally is a lot of third world countries
• 23:50
  Speaker 1: or countries with don't have stable currencies like we are
• 23:53
  Speaker 1: blessed with are all turning to cryptos and they can
• 23:56
  Speaker 1: do it on their phones, and they're getting phones because
• 23:58
  Speaker 1: they're leap frogging that technology. They might ahead of the
• 24:00
  Speaker 1: wires to running the electricity out in rural India or
• 24:03
  Speaker 1: world sub Sahara, Africa, but they can do They're getting
• 24:07
  Speaker 1: fun So that's happening everywhere. So like, what what's the
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: bigcoin chat? Why am I not on this? I'll get
• 24:12
  Speaker 1: you on the cryptot Please don't. I don't think you
• 24:15
  Speaker 1: want to invite him in here. You need to be
• 24:17
  Speaker 1: on that because Matt, you're so funny. But I'll be
• 24:19
  Speaker 1: in the on Saturday morning tomorrow morning and hopping on
• 24:22
  Speaker 1: a plane to go to Miami for the bitcoin conference.
• 24:25
  Speaker 1: It is supposed to be the biggest one on the
• 24:26
  Speaker 1: plan and it's live, it's not virtual. Where there you go?
• 24:29
  Speaker 1: All right, here you go. Don't need masks when I
• 24:33
  Speaker 1: go to Miami Beach. I don't go to a bitcoin conference. Post.
• 24:35
  Speaker 1: Thanks for listening to the Bloomberg Markets podcast. You can
• 24:39
  Speaker 1: subscribe and listen to interviews with Apple Podcasts or whatever
• 24:42
  Speaker 1: podcast platform you prefer. I'm Matt Miller. I'm on Twitter
• 24:46
  Speaker 1: at Matt Miller three, pet On ball Sweeney, I'm on
• 24:50
  Speaker 1: Twitter at pt Sweeney. Before the podcast, you can always
• 24:53
  Speaker 1: catch us worldwide at Bloomberg Radio