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Clark - Sus Dog · Electronic Music

• Hello and welcome to the Sound On Sound podcast about electronic music and all things synth. I'm Caro C and in this episode I'm talking to Chris Clark aka Clark. Signed at an early age to legendary British indie music label Warped Records, Clark has released something like 13 albums as well as a multitude of EPs and singles. He also makes music for film, TV and dance, as well as remixes for the likes of Depeche Mode, Max Richter and Massive Attack. Clark has just released Suss Dog on his own new label which features vocalist Annika and Tom York, who was also the executive producer on the album. Clark takes his intuitive electronica to another level here, as this is the first album to fully focus on his voice. So, a taste of Clark's music to get us started. Here's an extract from a track on Sussdog called Medicine featuring Tom York. Chris Clark a k Clark. Welcome to the Sound on Sound podcast. Hi, how you doing? I'm good. Thank you. I'm excited to speak to you because yes, you've got a lovely new album Yeah, it was out last friday. Yeah, and what's how would you pronounce it? Suss dog. Suss dog. Excellent Yes, so we'll talk about that and unpack that a bit Yeah, also I kind of know you from I think about 2000 your first album and I think you were quite young at that point So let's start off with yeah, what were you up to to be able to be released on warp in 2001? Um, wow I guess I've been making, uh, music since, well, like, sort of electronic music since I was about 15. This kid at college had some equipment that I was sort of obsessed with working out how to use, um, and I ended up, like, working to save up the money to buy old hardware samplers and a CS1X. Keyboard, which is not the best but um, I just rinsed it and sort of worked out how to use it in combination with the sampler. And that became Clarence Park, I suppose. And most of that was made just before I went to university, when I was about 19. And actually one of the tracks was on Body Riddle, like six years later, Nightknuckles. But I just was sending tapes to Warp, to my now manager, Greg Eden. And for some weird reason, he sort of picked up on it. I was quite persistent. I think it's a nice way of putting it. So the, the album was, it was sort of back in the days of not really being able to over edit stuff. And so it, it's all just pretty much tracks recorded in two, three hour sessions. I didn't really keep my gear saved properly and just would write stuff really quickly and get it down on and tape. And, um, and then that became, yeah, that became the album. So it's pretty homespun, I suppose. And there's something about not having too much time or capacity to deliberate as well, isn't there? Absolutely, yeah. That's sort of followed me, I think, in, in the, uh, I, I find it a very useful sort of pruning tool to, to not get too lost in. I mean, I do multitrack, but I mean, the way I do things now is, is, is sort of similar to how I did it back then, but also not at all, if that makes sense. Like I try and keep the essence of what I found fresh at that time, which was a very direct way of working, but I'm more sensible in that I kind of, I will, I've got always got multitracked options to. Like mix with but I'm very fond of just getting stuff down really quickly and Like rendering to groups and, and just condensing like masses of recording and then letting stuff fall away that isn't hitting me kind of thing, which is sort of similar to how I made Clarence Park, although there was like limited sample memory time, I think it was something like two minutes on the EXS. 24. So I would just, a few of the tracks are, are like masters of tracks, but recorded at 22k and then pitched down so that they're like, so it's got, it's definitely got a kind of gritty sound, I guess. Yeah. So that was the gear of around 2000. So I know it's a long stretch to cover. How did your gear and therefore your processes kind of evolve? I had a Zoom FX, Clarence Park was a Zoom FX unit, a Yamaha CS 1X and an Emu ESI 32. And um, and the next thing I bought was like a Revox tape machine. And that was pretty much like Empty the Bones Review, Body Riddle and Turning Dragon. Um, and I, I bought an ARP Odyssey, which I used quite a lot on both Turning Dragon and Body Riddle. And then guitars and an MPC came into the picture around 2006. And that was really fruitful, although I didn't, I haven't released much of that music, but I mean, it was so, I know it sounds so simple now, because you could probably just do this all on your iPhone, but just the thing of recording guitar to MPC felt amazing. And I made, and also live drums to MPC and just making drum loops. You know, when you're young, you sort of feel like you're the first person ever to get into something. Like I remember discovering Ligeti and just going on about Ligeti for a while. I don't know how you say it, is it ligetti or ligety? But I was just making all of these granular drones that were completely atonal but with sort of I was friends with James from Broadcast and I used to, I borrowed his drum kit and recorded that and just made loads of these sort of abstract collages of me drumming with these massive granular digital drones that were just, it was all just, um, like massively time stretched granular synthesis, but done really crudely. On the ESI 32 you could just get like one sample and build a pad sound out of it and then you just put like a reverb tail on it that's about 40 seconds or something and you just get these huge, huge drones. It's just so much fun. But I didn't, none of that was really intended to release but I just find that, abstract realm of experimentation. It's like such a good place to start to just experience ultimate freedom. You're not thinking about making like a hit. You're just sort of in this zone of just dabbling. And it, and it, that, that for me has been, I quite often just start there. And then the songs come out, come out of that. Um, I suppose. So what would you say were your influences when you did start out sort of Clarence Park time? And obviously then once you became part of the Walk family, that had its own evolution as well. I mean, probably like the Richard D. James album was a massive influence. I think that's a classic album. Um, and then Black Dog Bites, which actually I'd heard before. That was, I heard that when I was like 13 or something. That was probably the first thing on Warp I heard. That was massive, a massive record. I still listen to that. And then Jeff Mills, because I was kind of into, I wasn't really into it, but there was a lot of quite dodgy trance that was just so different to Sort of the indie music that I at that time categorized as boring and just like traditional. So anything that wasn't that was kind of appealing, but I remember then getting Jeff Mills live in the liquid room and it was like, ah, yeah, this is, this is techno, isn't it? It's completely different. It just sounded like Just mad machine jazz and it is, I just fell in love with it. Especially live, I mean. Yeah, just amazing. Um, but I mean I was making drum patterns and knocking about with tapes and I had, I can't remember what it was, just like one of those not very good Yamaha pad drum machines. Would just make little beats on that from quite an early age. But I didn't have any, I couldn't capture it really properly. I couldn't make full tracks out of it. So, because I just didn't have the gear or a computer. Um, so yeah, it was kind of Atari hardware and then, like I remember the first PC was amazing because it had Bitcrusher on it, which sounded extraordinary at the time. That was, I think I got that towards the end of, Clarence Park and like hard disk recording was suddenly just seemed like the future and amazing. Whereas now it sort of seems like ancient, like an ancient technique or something. And how did you start to integrate using software? Yeah, I think it was Logic. I think, I can't remember which version, Body Riddle was Logic 4 or 5 and I, it wasn't very powerful. Like I couldn't, Didn't have any good EQs really. Um, and then the first sort of, yeah, using DSP and getting plugins getting better. I used to just use loads of plugins and now I don't, I don't really use many at all. I just, I mainly just use, um, EQs just surgically to cut stuff out and I just try and get it right in the first stage of recording, I suppose. Like, I don't spend that long on EQ. Anything I do is just, is usually cutting. Which feels really amazing, because you just, yeah, it just frees up loads of time, basically. I'm just quicker at getting riffs and colours that I want down from the hardware. And I just sort of know what they'll do. So I don't, I faff too much with that stuff, I suppose. And have you had hardware that stayed with you along the trajectory so far? Well, I got rid of the Zoom effects unit. I don't know why. And I recently, well, about two years ago, I I bought that again because I just wanted it. It's just got such a grotty refurb. It's just, it's kind of horrible, but it just, I just love it. Um, and I've got, I use it with, I've got like a, but a thermionic busted and I just love taking the top end off that and then boost there's a top lift as well. So this is like a pool tech thing. So I'll just take all the top end off and then boost it. And then just have this like grotty reverb on the Prophet 6, and that sounds amazing. To my ears anyway, it's probably quite a peculiar thing to have a fetish for, but I like it. I mean, I quite like, I like that sort of caustic, peaky reverb. I know that now, like there's that Soothe plug in, which I use quite a lot. But I'm a bit, I'm a bit wary of it, because for me, I don't know if there's some sort of, I don't know if you can objectively say that music, I mean sure if there's like a really nasty resonant peak, take it out, but this sort of thing of just, it can generate quite flat results, and it is a fad, like, when I was remastering Body Riddle I decided to not really use it because, This sound now that we have, of like, finessed, smooth, Spotify friendly stuff without any peaks, that, that will be different in 20 years, and it, so you can't just sort of change a record to, to keep up with whatever's in fashion at the moment, it, Like I listen to quite a lot of 60s, 70s stuff where the guitars are really loud and panned and they're just like horrendously peaky but it's sort of, it's got an identity and that's, that's important. As long as it's got character and it's not like uber painful I'm quite up for keeping some of that grit I think. That's really interesting that you actually really only use EQ. Yeah I mean I, I mean I do, like I use decapitator loads. But that, that's just for a bit of character, like not, not, I just use it tiny amounts, and I've generally got quite a few open, but I usually just use it to roll the bottom off and give, make stuff a bit nice and saturated at the top end, I suppose. I'm much more prudent than I used to be, but I, you know, all of this stuff, I don't know if it, you know, I'm careful what I say, I don't, I'm much more interested in ideas than I am good EQ, uh, and it Generally, when I'm mixing, my best mixes are just intuitive and I'm not, I'm not sort of labouring that hard. It all just sort of happens as it happens. And generally, I don't really, um, change stuff that much. I mean, if I'm, hmm. I can go on, like, I, like, for example, shall I go on? I've got a story about it. Like give us at least one story. Yes. Go for it. Well, it's not, it's like, it's, it's a very, um, it's very nerdy and circuitous, but like, Dolgoth tape on the album was, I spent ages re recording the synth on like posh synths, like on a Voyager. It's not that posh, but on a Voyager and a Cat and a Seal Orchestra and the Prophet. And then I kind of made, I made the kick bigger and I recorded all of this percussion, like paper being scrunched, but not in a, not in a, I'm using paper way, just in a way that sounded like a shaker and. But it, it's uh, I sort of souped it up and it just, it none, I did, I spent 8, I spent about 6 months on it and ended up going for a much earlier version with just a few tweaks. So, I, I sort of deliberately went for the version that I think has more character and is just, that was just captured like, in a way that I would make something for Clarence Park I suppose. Um, so yeah, it's, every track. needs that kind of interrogation, but you also need to be open to the idea that you captured something. But producers hate that because there's this mentality that because I worked on it, it must be good. And that's just, That's just something you need to let go of. And that's quite difficult for some people, I think. So what about dynamic control then? Are you more of a layerer of sounds? Or are you more dynamic control? I don't use much compression at all anymore. I tend to just, if I, with vocals, I've just got loads of automation on different plugins, just doing tiny amounts. I find it a bit less dangerous. Um, I mean, it It's sometimes it's I compress stuff through I've got a manly very mute and an API 2500 and I use them a fair bit but only Um, I mean I quite often just work on my laptop downstairs and then and but and then do more hardware stuff up here, obviously, um Yeah limiting yeah, I recently I haven't used I, I keep stuff really quiet and just get an open mix, although Sussdog isn't that, Sussdog's quite juiced, but, um, It's really, it feels really old now. It was finished a year ago. So I've sort of got a year's worth of new material, but mainly a lot of automation and then freeze, print, freeze, print, freeze, print, and just build it up through iterations. So do you tend to work solo or do you tend to collaborate with others in terms of production as much as composition? I love collaborating, um, but not really on production stuff. I'm too much of a control freak. I, I don't, I don't really need it. When I was recording strings, we had them mixed and that was really nice. Um, that was for Lizzy's story and also for my album on TG. But I tend to, I, it's so baked into me to make everything from the ground up myself that I'd probably find it difficult unless it was a specific, maybe if it was like drums, I, I wouldn't feel the need to mix them myself. Although I did mix the drums on Suss Dog myself, but Richard Spaven's an amazing drummer and he He just delivered something really nice already and then I, I think I just sort of juiced it all through the API and some nice EQs. I've got an Avalon 2055 which is nice. So I think that, that's um, that's basically that track through those bits of hardware. But I love collaborating. And where did you record those drums? Um, he recorded, he's got a really nice little room, and he just recorded them there. Right. He recorded a load, and I don't think that much of it is used on the album. There's some on Town Crank, but it's quite buried. It's a bit token, but it just, quite often it's just, like, just like a layered. Hi hat part. I don't tend to think of things like that, though. Like, I don't tend to think of, oh, it's the hi hat part. I tend to just think, oh, it's the upper mids. Um, and that could be anything. It could be a synth. It could be a melody. It could be a shaker. It could be a ride. It could just be hiss with some tremolo on it. I don't tend to think about it. I don't know. That's also probably like a sound design background rather than being someone that just records acoustic instruments and parts. So I find that quite liberating. It doesn't have to be acoustic, you know, to generate the result you want at all. Yeah. And vice versa. Yeah. So the instrumentation isn't as important as the sound or the color that you're after. Not on some things like it is on it. It is on harmony and, um, Vocals and like, that's everything like phrasing and harmony and chords and rhythm that, yeah, that's sort of at least 50 percent of it, I think. So let's talk about how you approached Sustog then, because I know that Tom York's been involved, hasn't he? Tom York was involved, yeah. We remixed each other, I think, in 2019 or might have, yeah. And I just sent him the track Ladder just for a bit of a laugh, just to see what he Just to sort of see if it caught him off guard. And he really liked it and um, I sent him another track after that which had this outro and he just said, Why don't you try putting that one in between ladder and then just going back to the intro. And it sort of, it was, it almost worked and then I tweaked it a bit and it really worked. And it was like, oh yeah, that's, and so I just said, Do you fancy being exec producer on my next record? Kind of as a joke, but he seemed really up for it. So yeah, it was, and then it just was a really enjoyable, fruitful period of about nine months of just constant emails. Well, not that constant. It was, it was all very kind of precise and to the point, but there's a long chain of just like, a lot of it was basically him just. saying don't touch this, just leave it alone and maybe cut out this section. Like the first track, Alyosha, was originally sort of seven minutes long and had all of these vocal loops. Um, it was just far too ambitious for its own good, get a grip. But again, it was that thing, because I'd worked on it, I found it quite hard to let go of it. Uh, and he just was like, no, just, you just, cut that massive bit out, put that there, and then you're done. And he was right. And, and that was really satisfying because that track had just so much in it that was extraneous to what it needed. Um, uh, yeah, but then there were other, there were other tracks where I sort of stuck to my guns and was just like, no, this, this is the structure. And he was very cool about that. It was, you know, it was. It was all really respectful and just, just so enjoyable. I've never had that before on an album and I think, I don't think I, I think I'd be a bit leery of it if it was just without vocals but it's like, it's Tom York so I was gonna listen to him. And there's other vocalists involved as well, isn't there? Um, Annika, yeah, she's amazing. We've actually been making stuff together since 2018, but none of it's seen the light of day yet apart from that track. Um, that, that's quite an old piece, Suss Dog. It's, I think, 2018. But she, um, yeah, she just came up with this amazing sort of ending that, you know, That was one of those sort of stragglers that was, it, it was 80 percent done. The most deliciously frustrating of percentages when it's that, that zone of like, it just needs something. And she just delivered it and completely took me by surprise. And then I processed it through two space echoes, um, like live in one take and just did the delay by hand. It was really satisfying doing that. I know it's like an old trick, but. It feels, I think I spent about two afternoons just on her vocal part, like really taking care of them. And that, to me, that's the most satisfying part of making music, when you're at that end of the track and you're just doing flourishes. It's really good fun. There's going to be a live show as well. Yeah, I've never sung live before, but I've done like three shows now and it, I, to be honest, I didn't, it felt pretty natural. I, I'd rehearsed like loads for it, which was probably a good idea. And but I was expecting for it to feel weirder than it did, which was really good. I mean, it's, it's like, it's definitely different to the record, but. I just kind of, I've sort of given up caring a bit. , I don't mean caring about whether it's good or not, but just sort of this idea of it, of the risk of it being the sort of jeopardy of it is really exciting to me. And, you know, the, the records out there is it if the live version. It exceeds the record, that's great. If it's different, and people are like, Oh, it doesn't sound like the record, then, well, the record's out there, so that's, you know, sort of, there's not much to lose, I don't think. Um, And it, you know, it's not, it's not like singing over everything, because I'm still playing a lot of back catalogue, and, yeah, it's been really fun. But I, I use, um, loopers, but hopefully not in a, you know, rubbish way. They're just more of a sort of background texture, so I kind of keep my voice alive throughout the show, but you can't necessarily tell it's my voice, but it's kind of inter threaded into bits of the other tracks. Yeah, it's good fun. Wonderful, and have you got a bit of a touring or um, getting out there with the album this summer, autumn? Yeah, I'm touring in America at the end of June, and um, yeah, show in Poland after London the week after on the 9th. So yeah, there's definitely, it's so good to be doing it again because there was quite a long break after COVID. Hmm. Um, which was a bit weird because I've sort of, it's a really good way of just like connecting outside the internet. You know, it's, it's, it feels really more vital than ever. Yeah, so I, I really enjoy it. It's, it's like every show is sort of unrepeatable really, which is good fun. Definitely. And, um, that in the moment thing, can't be beaten when it works well. It's sometimes a lottery, but when it works well, it just can't be beaten, can it? No. No, it's good. So how has your live show evolved then over the years? I mean, the first live shows were chaos, um, distilled. It was, I mean, I, I just used to chop up tracks and put them on the MPC. And then, like, there was definitely a few shows where I forgot what pads were assigned to what bits. Quite early on, I played keys live and that, that always feels pretty natural. But I like being able to go in different directions with it. It's, it's fun kind of gradually taking. Um, elements out so that it's more, more and more just completely live. Like the, I opened the show in Istanbul just with a Prophet 6 and singing. And I, I don't know what came over me cause it was the first time I'd ever done it live. But I just had this urge to see what it felt like. And it, it was kind of all right. It. The thing is, it's over so quickly as well. Like you sing a line and then you're done and you're onto the next. So you just got, you just got to keep flowing with it and, and you just can't really think about it. Um, and it's just really exciting. I find it really exciting. And would you say that, um, you're still again, mainly using hardware tools for live, or are you also using laptop? No, it's a, it's Ableton with tracks stemmed out and then, you know, Just like, different sections of them can be played. If it's working really well, I can like, loop something longer. If it's not working, I don't have to do that. And there's effects sends. And then a rhythm drum machine running alongside it. And then, um, what else? A Prophet 6. But then a mixing desk with effects sends on that as well. Like some delay pedals and reverbs and stuff. Which is, I prefer that. To doing it internally. So no, it just feels, feels better. I suppose. I know analog mixers are quite hard to get these days, but I prefer using them. I think. And has sound on sound accompanied you on your journey at all? Musically speaking. Yeah, definitely. For, uh, I read it for like in depth tech stuff, like microphone technique and I like the, uh, Interviews with producers, pretty interesting. There was a good one with a guy that produced, um, Monst, uh, the Kanye album, My Beautiful Dark Twisted Fantasy. That's, I love the mixing on that record. And I remember a good interview with the guy. It's, it's really, there's just so much grime on that album. It's incredible. But it doesn't, it doesn't get in the way and it doesn't feel contrived. It's just, yeah. So that was, like, I like the in depth, Yeah. Yeah. forensic analysis of tracks. It's interesting because everyone's got a different take on music really and that's really nice. I'd, because it chimes with my idea that it, you know, there's just so many ways to make music. It's not, it's not one way that you have to stick to. Um, so that's interesting and it is great that it covers, covers all of that. With, you know, openly and curiously, that's really good. I think sometimes to have that reflection, you can sort of find out more about yourself, can't you, and your approach, and you go, oh yeah, I don't do that, or no, I don't do, I do do that, or I think it's good to have that reflection. Yeah, I do quite often read them thinking, I don't do that, and I'm not going to. But, you know, that's all part of it, um, just, uh, you know, you need things, you need to define yourself against, against that. certain practices as well. I, you know, it's not in a, not in a belligerent way, but sort of, I, I, yeah, I'm quite determined to, to not let my music be sort of diluted by techniques that I feel I should be using, if you see what I mean. Like, um, yeah, I get it quite a lot with mics. Like, I, you know, If I capture something on a phone mic that is good, I'll use it. I don't think, oh, I have to capture that properly. Or, you know, I don't know. It's not so much lead by tools. They're like, definitely the cart. So I think you said that you basically try and show up quite often in the studio and produce a lot of music and compose a lot of music that might not actually get out in the world. Um, do you have any other projects alongside your solo composition? Yeah, I, I've scored a film recently, which is called In Camera by a director called Nakash Khalid, who's amazing. Um, and that's finished, but I need to now finish the OST. Which, because I don't want it just to be a sort of series of cues, I want it to be a proper album, which is sometimes a bit of a sort of thankless task. It's like, no, no, no, this is, this is music. It is. But, um. I do want you to listen to it as a whole. Yeah, I do. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, so there's that. And then there's, um, Oh, just, just making my own stuff really, which is still my sort of main passion, I suppose, like constantly making tracks and trying to keep on top of it. I always just feel like I'm, I've got a mountain of work ahead of me and that sort of spurs me on, I suppose. And that mountain of work is music inside of you that needs to come out? Yeah, there just doesn't seem to be enough time to get it. To finish it all, um, And it, it doesn't really feel like work, it just feels like A sort of, a combination of obsession and I, I don't even, it doesn't even feel disciplined really, but it I suppose there's quite a few Yeah, like healthy habits I have with, with making stuff Like I tend to just play the piano first thing in the morning and Um, yeah Just try and work out some notation stuff and that sets me up for the day, but then yeah, so it's kind of like a broad Church of Yeah, different practices that are funneling towards this end goal, but I read a really interesting thing with a South African composer, can't remember his name, but he was talking about, I mean it was in relation to composing, but I think you can, I see a complete parallel. He was talking about not, not getting bogged down in the architecture before you've, you've made anything. And that's quite, especially in the world of composing, that's quite a big, counterintuitive thing because the idea is that you sort of conceive of your masterwork and you work rigorously to that goal without any without any distraction, but his point was that you, you, you just work with material and you, like you build it up from the material. You don't, you don't need to, you can have a kind of loose idea, but those ideas can be, they can imprison you a bit. And so it's this sort of dance between having a, for me, it's generally like a color or a palette or a theme, but I know that I'm going to get surprised and, and there'll be zigzags. But it's, yeah, that's what's so fun about albums because they're, they're this kind of condensed document of your, your journey of what you wanted to funnel it all down to in the albums, like this ultra kind of reduced simulation of, of that, I suppose. Yeah, it's funny, it's like recording your, you can always get closer, like you can always get slightly closer to what you want. And the, the, the album that you just released is always, the next thing is always a kind of comment on that and a, it answers the questions that that album didn't answer kind of thing. That's how I think of it. Yeah. Wow. Wonderful. So next album is already in the pipeline for you. I mean, yeah, it's sort of hard to get people excited about it when the one that I've just released is out and people are hearing that, but it's just that classic artist thing of like, the the best thing you're working on is the thing you're working on now and everything else is like you're really sort of flippant about it. Yeah. Suss dog. That's old hat. I'm over that. That's gone to room 101. Yeah. Yeah. Wonderful. Excellent. Well, that's wonderful. It's really nice to hear a bit more about your process and yeah, all the best with suss dog, both live and recorded versions. Thank you very much. Okay, thanks a lot for your time. Cheers. Thank you. Thank you for listening and be sure to check out the show notes for further information as well as links and details of other episodes in the electronic music series. And just before you go. Let me point you to soundonsound. com forward slash podcasts so you can check out what's on our other channels. This has been a Akao C production for Sound On Sound.