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The devastating reality of having loved ones in prison · The Real News Podcast

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Welcome to this edition of Rattling the Bars. I'm your host,
• 0:02
  Speaker 1: Max Moose.
• 0:02
  Speaker 2: Today, I'm speaking with reporter Victoria Valenzuela about a recent
• 0:08
  Speaker 2: reporting on incarceration in California. Thank you for joining me, Victoria.
• 0:13
  Speaker 2: Please introduce yourself to our audience.
• 0:16
  Speaker 3: Hi, I'm Victoria. Thank you so much for having me.
• 0:19
  Speaker 3: I'm an independent journalist. I've been reporting on families and
• 0:22
  Speaker 3: individuals impacted by incarceration for five years. I've been published
• 0:26
  Speaker 3: in a variety of news outlets, about 30 now. And
• 0:30
  Speaker 3: that includes The Guardian, Truthout, Prism, The Real News Network,
• 0:35
  Speaker 3: BuzzFeed News, USA Today, documented a bunch of different places.
• 0:41
  Speaker 3: And I also have a sub stack with my heart,
• 0:44
  Speaker 3: Victoria Valenzuela, where I cover individuals and families impacted by incarceration.
• 0:49
  Speaker 2: Okay, so you wrote, recently you wrote an article about
• 0:53
  Speaker 2: non-contact visits in a particular California detention center. Explain to
• 1:00
  Speaker 2: our audience why this particular issue is problematic in and
• 1:05
  Speaker 2: of itself, because most people think that if you're locked up,
• 1:10
  Speaker 2: you know, you don't have a right to contact, you
• 1:13
  Speaker 2: don't have a right to conjugal visit. You have, you know,
• 1:17
  Speaker 2: the invention of technology and tablets that you'd be lucky
• 1:22
  Speaker 2: if you get a visit on a tablet. Explain why
• 1:25
  Speaker 2: it's important that people understand this particular issue and unpack
• 1:30
  Speaker 2: the background of it.
• 1:32
  Speaker 3: Sure. So in California, most immigrant detention centers give contact visits,
• 1:37
  Speaker 3: but there's one in particular, California City Detention Center in
• 1:41
  Speaker 3: Southern California, that is not giving contact visits. And that
• 1:44
  Speaker 3: has been a problem since they opened a few years ago.
• 1:48
  Speaker 3: And basically, since they're not allowing contact visits, families can't
• 1:53
  Speaker 3: cannot hug their loved ones, which is really terrible, especially
• 1:56
  Speaker 3: that a lot of the people inside, they don't have
• 1:59
  Speaker 3: a criminal record. They're just picked up off the street.
• 2:02
  Speaker 3: There's no reason why they should be policed. And they're
• 2:05
  Speaker 3: not able to hug their families. A lot of families,
• 2:07
  Speaker 3: they live all across California. They even live out of
• 2:10
  Speaker 3: state sometimes. And so they travel to the facility. It's
• 2:14
  Speaker 3: spent a lot of money on gas and they still
• 2:16
  Speaker 3: can't even hug their loved ones and so the alternative
• 2:20
  Speaker 3: to through the glass visits which they're allowed um is
• 2:23
  Speaker 3: phone calls overpriced video calls that they're able to do
• 2:27
  Speaker 3: like facetimes but that costs by the minute the costs
• 2:31
  Speaker 3: add up and so they're and they're still not able
• 2:33
  Speaker 3: to hug their loved one so those are two really
• 2:36
  Speaker 3: bad alternatives to being able to hug their loved ones
• 2:40
  Speaker 3: and um So this policy has been going on since
• 2:42
  Speaker 3: the facility opened up. And then the issue of no
• 2:45
  Speaker 3: contact visits is like much bigger than immigrant detention centers.
• 2:48
  Speaker 3: Like it's also happening in jails across the country. And
• 2:51
  Speaker 3: in some juvenile detention centers, it's left up to the
• 2:53
  Speaker 3: probation department. So this is really a problem of the
• 2:57
  Speaker 3: people in charge just trying to repress the incarcerated population
• 3:02
  Speaker 3: by not allowing them to hug their families.
• 3:05
  Speaker 2: Is this based on location in this particular part of California?
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  Speaker 2: Or is this the state of California saying we regulate
• 3:12
  Speaker 2: certain detention centers, regulate them this way and some we
• 3:16
  Speaker 2: regulate them that way?
• 3:18
  Speaker 3: Yeah, from my understanding, it would be CoreCivic who owns
• 3:22
  Speaker 3: California City Detention Center's decision to implement this. And maybe
• 3:28
  Speaker 3: if California were to pass a law, then they'd have
• 3:30
  Speaker 3: to comply. They did send the California Department of Justice
• 3:35
  Speaker 3: a policy recommendation saying, That included a plan to have
• 3:39
  Speaker 3: in-person visits, contact visits, I'm sorry, and they are not
• 3:44
  Speaker 3: doing that. So technically, they're violating their own policy that
• 3:47
  Speaker 3: they promised to the California Department of Justice.
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  Speaker 2: CoreCivic being a private industry, what's your read on their
• 3:53
  Speaker 2: relationship with the state? So how is they responsible for
• 3:57
  Speaker 2: regulating or creating policies about how visits should be done?
• 4:01
  Speaker 2: Or is they bringing, they coming, they being under contract,
• 4:05
  Speaker 2: they saying that We're going to have these kind of visits.
• 4:08
  Speaker 1: We're going to have this kind of treatment. Is that
• 4:10
  Speaker 1: the case?
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  Speaker 3: So what I understand is that CoreCivic is operating as
• 4:14
  Speaker 3: its own unit. And I'm not sure whether they're compliant
• 4:19
  Speaker 3: or under the state. But what I do know is
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  Speaker 3: there was also talk that CoreCivic was not in compliance.
• 4:27
  Speaker 3: They did not have the permits to open in the
• 4:29
  Speaker 3: first place.
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  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 4:31
  Speaker 3: And so they were kind of rushing opening a couple
• 4:34
  Speaker 3: years ago. And I kind of see that as they
• 4:38
  Speaker 3: just wanted to cash in on the mass immigration enforcement
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  Speaker 3: that's happening under Trump. So they didn't really care about
• 4:45
  Speaker 3: the conditions. You know, like they give the reason in
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  Speaker 3: the California Department of Justice report that they're not having
• 4:50
  Speaker 3: contact visits because of a lack of staffing. Seems like
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  Speaker 3: they didn't have the care to implement that in the
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  Speaker 3: first place. They just wanted to open and operate at
• 4:58
  Speaker 3: the lowest price possible because they are for profit. And
• 5:03
  Speaker 3: so if they invest, And two, more visits and two
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  Speaker 3: more staff, then that's money that they lose because they're for-profit.
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  Speaker 3: They're making money off this.
• 5:12
  Speaker 1: Right.
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  Speaker 2: And so, yeah, so now it's become more clear. If, one,
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  Speaker 2: I'm coming in on a private contract, I'm bidding, I'm
• 5:20
  Speaker 2: saying I'm going to provide the least amount of services
• 5:24
  Speaker 2: for the least amount of money in a bid narrative.
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  Speaker 2: Somebody's saying $ 50 million. I'm saying I can give you
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  Speaker 2: what they give me for $ 50 million.
• 5:31
  Speaker 1: I can give you.
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  Speaker 2: that less than that for $ 30 million, and now I
• 5:36
  Speaker 2: get a chance to come in with my system of
• 5:39
  Speaker 2: no-contact visits because I don't want to provide the staff.
• 5:43
  Speaker 2: I don't want to provide the whatever it takes to
• 5:45
  Speaker 2: maintain an otherwise minor visiting situation. But how are y'all
• 5:51
  Speaker 2: organizing against the no-contact visits?
• 5:55
  Speaker 3: So a lot of the activism to get contact visits
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  Speaker 3: is being led by impacted individuals. So people who are
• 6:02
  Speaker 3: either detained there or they have family members inside, they're
• 6:05
  Speaker 3: directly advocating and they're working with advocates. So the people inside,
• 6:11
  Speaker 3: there's about seven dorms in California City Detention Center who
• 6:14
  Speaker 3: wrote letters to the warden so the warden can know
• 6:19
  Speaker 3: the impact that it's having to not have these contact visits.
• 6:23
  Speaker 3: And the families are also going to press conferences. They're
• 6:26
  Speaker 3: coming together and they're trying to make known their experiences.
• 6:30
  Speaker 3: So a lot of the people with lived experiences, they're
• 6:33
  Speaker 3: just trying to amplify their voices. And so other people
• 6:36
  Speaker 3: can understand and have empathy and hopefully implement these visits.
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  Speaker 3: And they're also working with advocates who formed a coalition
• 6:44
  Speaker 3: that is called Hugs Behind Bars. And so they're also
• 6:49
  Speaker 3: working together. They're kind of like they're trying to get
• 6:51
  Speaker 3: media attention. They're having press releases. press conferences, and they're
• 6:55
  Speaker 3: just trying to make their voices heard. They're writing letters,
• 6:58
  Speaker 3: they have a petition, and so they're just trying to
• 7:01
  Speaker 3: do what they can. And a lot of activism is
• 7:04
  Speaker 3: led by people in immigrant detention centers. They were also
• 7:08
  Speaker 3: just successful in boycotting to get the attention of Governor
• 7:12
  Speaker 3: Newsom to pass a law that would cap commissary prices
• 7:15
  Speaker 3: by 35%. And so a lot of people inside, like
• 7:19
  Speaker 3: they are doing this organizing. So sometimes they're successful, but
• 7:22
  Speaker 3: then sometimes they're retaliated against and they're transferred to different
• 7:25
  Speaker 3: facilities or they're put in solitary confinement or they lose
• 7:27
  Speaker 3: their visiting privileges, phone privileges. And so, you know, sometimes
• 7:31
  Speaker 3: their activism works, sometimes it doesn't, but they're really resilient
• 7:34
  Speaker 3: and they're really fighting for this. It really does matter
• 7:36
  Speaker 3: to them.
• 7:37
  Speaker 1: And talk about that right there.
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  Speaker 2: Why is contact visits important for people that are, would
• 7:45
  Speaker 2: you just say, And under certain circumstances, they now don't
• 7:48
  Speaker 2: even belong there. But why is contact business important for
• 7:52
  Speaker 2: a person that's being detained?
• 7:54
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I have personal experience with this. My father's incarcerated.
• 7:58
  Speaker 3: He's been incarcerated 10 years. He's in San Quentin right now.
• 8:01
  Speaker 3: I visit him every chance I get. And, you know, it's,
• 8:05
  Speaker 3: really unifying it feels really good to be able to
• 8:08
  Speaker 3: just hug him to be able to be in his
• 8:10
  Speaker 3: presence to talk you know these phone calls in California
• 8:13
  Speaker 3: state prisons they're 15 minutes so either we and they're
• 8:16
  Speaker 3: recorded and every like five minutes or so you get
• 8:20
  Speaker 3: the little voice reminding you that this call is recorded
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  Speaker 3: and so you know it's nothing compared to the in-person
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  Speaker 3: visits and you You know, we get to share a meal.
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  Speaker 3: We get to catch up. We get to read the Bible,
• 8:32
  Speaker 3: play games like there's a it's like a moment that
• 8:35
  Speaker 3: we get to have. And I don't want to romanticize
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  Speaker 3: this and say that this is the solution because visits
• 8:40
  Speaker 3: can also be improved. You know, the food is really
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  Speaker 3: exorbitantly priced. It's like $ 10 for a single Hot Pocket.
• 8:51
  Speaker 3: It's like $ 13 for a single frozen cheeseburger. It's really bad. And,
• 8:57
  Speaker 3: you know, you only get a hug saying hello, a
• 9:00
  Speaker 3: hug saying goodbye. Anything else is considered excessive contact and
• 9:03
  Speaker 3: the visits could be terminated. And so and then even
• 9:07
  Speaker 3: just going into the facility, women get policed for what
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  Speaker 3: they're wearing. You could wear you are expected to wear
• 9:14
  Speaker 3: clothes that are not too tight, but are not too
• 9:15
  Speaker 3: loose and anything up to the guards discretion, you could
• 9:18
  Speaker 3: be turned away. The visits could be terminated. And so
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  Speaker 3: it's really harsh, but at the same time, it does
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  Speaker 3: matter getting to hug your family, getting to, you know,
• 9:27
  Speaker 3: I sit in this visiting room and I see the
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  Speaker 3: dignity and the humanity of everybody. Like everybody's just so
• 9:32
  Speaker 3: soft hearted, just sitting next to their loved ones and
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  Speaker 3: it gives them hope and motivation of what they have
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  Speaker 3: to come home to. And, You know, that's true for
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  Speaker 3: state prisons where I have my experience, but also in
• 9:42
  Speaker 3: immigrant detention centers. You know, for some people, it could
• 9:46
  Speaker 3: be the last hug before they get deported. And, you know,
• 9:49
  Speaker 3: you don't know if or when you're going to see
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  Speaker 3: them again. Could be, you know, you get a hug
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  Speaker 3: your newborn. Like in the family that I wrote about
• 9:56
  Speaker 3: in the article, the wife, Samantha, she's she was seven
• 10:00
  Speaker 3: months pregnant, seven and a half months pregnant, I wrote
• 10:02
  Speaker 3: this A month ago, so she could either have had
• 10:05
  Speaker 3: the baby by now or be even further along. Her husband, Alan,
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  Speaker 3: isn't going to have his deportation hearing until December. So
• 10:13
  Speaker 3: all that time is going to be time that he
• 10:14
  Speaker 3: doesn't get to hug his newborn baby. He never got
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  Speaker 3: to feel his baby kick. And so little moments like
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  Speaker 3: that matter to people. And that's just, you know, every day,
• 10:24
  Speaker 3: like people take that for granted because people in immigrant
• 10:26
  Speaker 3: detention centers and state prisons, sometimes jails, they don't get
• 10:29
  Speaker 3: those moments.
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  Speaker 1: Right.
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  Speaker 2: And I don't think no penologist, take a position that
• 10:37
  Speaker 2: human contact with family members is a security threat. I
• 10:42
  Speaker 2: was in Kansas and they had the guys that organized
• 10:48
  Speaker 2: a family day in the prison. So in this particular prison,
• 10:52
  Speaker 2: this was the first time they ever had an activity
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  Speaker 2: where the family members could come into the prison without
• 10:59
  Speaker 2: being harassed, children, and for like Two hours, they had shifts.
• 11:05
  Speaker 2: So they got, like, they had over 1,500 prisoners participate,
• 11:10
  Speaker 2: not counting their families. So on any given session, you
• 11:14
  Speaker 2: had somewhere between, like, 200 to 300 family members in
• 11:18
  Speaker 2: the yard with their loved ones. And one of the
• 11:22
  Speaker 2: things the guy said, he said, this might be the
• 11:24
  Speaker 2: last time I get to hug my mother or my
• 11:26
  Speaker 2: father because they was elders. And they never had that
• 11:30
  Speaker 2: happen before, but what it did for that population, that population,
• 11:34
  Speaker 2: and the population up until that point had a lot
• 11:37
  Speaker 2: of problems.
• 11:38
  Speaker 1: And once they put.
• 11:39
  Speaker 2: This concept out there, family day, you can go in
• 11:44
  Speaker 2: the yard, be with your children, nobody going to be
• 11:46
  Speaker 2: harassing you.
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  Speaker 1: It changed the attitude.
• 11:50
  Speaker 2: Of the people that wanted to participate because you had
• 11:52
  Speaker 2: to have a certain behavior to go out. See the
• 11:54
  Speaker 2: kids running around with their socks off, with their shoes off,
• 11:58
  Speaker 2: running to different moon rounds, and the men and the
• 12:01
  Speaker 2: family members. So that's, you know, a visit might not
• 12:05
  Speaker 2: be to that extent, but a visit had that kind
• 12:07
  Speaker 2: of impact on people coming from, you know, like you say,
• 12:11
  Speaker 2: coming from a distance to see a loved one and
• 12:14
  Speaker 2: to put a smile on a loved one's face and
• 12:16
  Speaker 2: have a loved one Do the same in kind. What
• 12:19
  Speaker 2: do you think the reasons behind the state doing this,
• 12:23
  Speaker 2: or more importantly, CoreCivic?
• 12:25
  Speaker 3: CoreCivic never gave a reasoning behind this, but a lot
• 12:28
  Speaker 3: of the advocates I spoke to think that it's really
• 12:30
  Speaker 3: intentional and that... You know, like they're trying to get
• 12:36
  Speaker 3: these people who are detained to sign deportation orders. They're
• 12:39
  Speaker 3: trying to make conditions so deplorable by not being able
• 12:42
  Speaker 3: to hug their loved ones. These are among other things
• 12:45
  Speaker 3: like this is among like, you know, mold in the
• 12:48
  Speaker 3: buildings and in food, medical neglect, solitary confinement, extremely high
• 12:54
  Speaker 3: commissary prices. And so getting being able to hug a
• 12:57
  Speaker 3: loved one would make such a big difference. And, you know,
• 13:00
  Speaker 3: they don't get that. So now they're dealing with all
• 13:02
  Speaker 3: these conditions. And so they think that, you know, ICE
• 13:06
  Speaker 3: and CoreCivic, they're doing this so that people can sign
• 13:09
  Speaker 3: their deportation orders and just kind of cycle through the
• 13:11
  Speaker 3: system and give up, lose hope. And, you know, but
• 13:15
  Speaker 3: some people, they're not doing that. They're looking to fight
• 13:18
  Speaker 3: this instead.
• 13:19
  Speaker 1: And you know what?
• 13:21
  Speaker 2: In that regard, that makes sense because we have been
• 13:26
  Speaker 2: doing story after story on immigration and The principles that
• 13:33
  Speaker 2: they say supposed to exist is until you violate the law,
• 13:38
  Speaker 2: and that's after having a hearing and being heard on
• 13:41
  Speaker 2: what they say you violate, then they implement deportation. But
• 13:45
  Speaker 2: what they're doing, they're forcing people to, because of the
• 13:49
  Speaker 2: horrendous conditions they find themselves in, they're forcing them to
• 13:53
  Speaker 2: voluntarily sign papers saying they want to be deported. as
• 13:56
  Speaker 2: opposed to staying under those conditions. This is criminal in
• 14:01
  Speaker 2: and of itself, do you think?
• 14:03
  Speaker 3: Yeah, definitely. I think it should be illegal. Like, I
• 14:06
  Speaker 3: think that people should have the choice. People should be
• 14:09
  Speaker 3: able to, you know, they shouldn't be in conditions where
• 14:11
  Speaker 3: they feel like the only option is to sign deportation
• 14:15
  Speaker 3: orders to get out of there or to continue living
• 14:18
  Speaker 3: in these deplorable conditions. Like, that shouldn't be a situation
• 14:23
  Speaker 3: that people should find themselves in.
• 14:25
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and I appreciate your work on it. Let's switch gears.
• 14:29
  Speaker 2: You wrote a report about incarcerated women in California. Talk
• 14:33
  Speaker 2: about the criminalization of women survivors in California and the
• 14:37
  Speaker 2: goals of survive and punish, the organization you highlighted.
• 14:42
  Speaker 3: Right. So in California and across the country, it's not
• 14:46
  Speaker 3: uncommon that women who survive domestic violence and either have
• 14:50
  Speaker 3: to defend their lives or they're coerced to do something
• 14:52
  Speaker 3: by an abusive partner are get incarcerated get arrested and
• 14:57
  Speaker 3: sometimes even face like a mandatory minimum sentence or a
• 15:00
  Speaker 3: life sentence because of this so if a woman is
• 15:03
  Speaker 3: being threatened with a gun if she's being hit and
• 15:07
  Speaker 3: she fears for her life and she you know physically
• 15:10
  Speaker 3: defends herself takes the gun that was going to be
• 15:12
  Speaker 3: used on her or some situation like that then she'll
• 15:16
  Speaker 3: be charged and treated like a criminal instead of being
• 15:20
  Speaker 3: given resources and help and similarly if a woman or
• 15:23
  Speaker 3: I'm sorry, I'm saying woman, but it could be anybody.
• 15:25
  Speaker 3: It's most common.
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: Right, right, right, right, right.
• 15:27
  Speaker 3: Right. But if somebody is, you know, coerced to commit
• 15:31
  Speaker 3: a crime by an abusive partner, they never wanted to
• 15:34
  Speaker 3: commit it in the first place, but the abuser is
• 15:36
  Speaker 3: threatening them. They're saying that, you know, the alternative is
• 15:39
  Speaker 3: to be hit or abused. Then they commit the crime.
• 15:43
  Speaker 3: They're charged as an accomplice or they're charged as the
• 15:45
  Speaker 3: person who commits the crime. And so it's very common
• 15:49
  Speaker 3: that incarcerated women face some kind of trauma. It's Up
• 15:53
  Speaker 3: to 91% or more, that's about 91% or more, some
• 15:58
  Speaker 3: researches have found that incarcerated women face trauma before their incarceration.
• 16:04
  Speaker 3: And so it's a really common thing. And it's just
• 16:08
  Speaker 3: terrible because these women, they're just trying to survive. And
• 16:10
  Speaker 3: they should be met with resources. They should be met
• 16:12
  Speaker 3: with care and, you know, somebody to talk to, a therapist.
• 16:16
  Speaker 3: And instead, they're just being incarcerated. And then the cycle
• 16:20
  Speaker 3: of trauma perpetuates because now they're losing agency. They're losing
• 16:24
  Speaker 3: control over their activities. They're constantly being threatened to comply
• 16:27
  Speaker 3: with the system or else be punished further. And so
• 16:30
  Speaker 3: instead of getting that help they need, they're just put in,
• 16:33
  Speaker 3: they're locked up and you know a lot of the
• 16:35
  Speaker 3: times their stories even they're not even able to tell
• 16:38
  Speaker 3: their stories because um you know there's this movement for
• 16:42
  Speaker 3: affirmative defense right now a lot of women or people
• 16:46
  Speaker 3: survivors of um domestic violence like they're sent to they're
• 16:50
  Speaker 3: given a court and then they're not able to tell
• 16:53
  Speaker 3: their story so they're just solely looked at for their
• 16:55
  Speaker 3: crime so if their crime is you know like like
• 16:59
  Speaker 3: committing murder to survive. They're not looked at as like,
• 17:02
  Speaker 3: you know, it's surviving. It was like to defend their lives.
• 17:05
  Speaker 3: It was like the alternative was to die. That's not
• 17:07
  Speaker 3: looked at. It's just the murder. And then that's all
• 17:10
  Speaker 3: that's looked at. And then they're just sentenced to prison
• 17:13
  Speaker 3: based off that.
• 17:14
  Speaker 1: So what is the Justice for Survivor law?
• 17:18
  Speaker 3: So there's been a lot of Justice for Survivors Act
• 17:21
  Speaker 3: in different states, like Oklahoma passed one, New York passed one.
• 17:24
  Speaker 3: In California, we've been trying to pass one too in
• 17:26
  Speaker 3: the last consecutive years. it's been introduced. And so basically
• 17:31
  Speaker 3: the one in California, because I'm unfamiliar with the one
• 17:33
  Speaker 3: in Oklahoma and New York, but in California, there's been
• 17:38
  Speaker 3: a movement for this bill would offer two things. It
• 17:40
  Speaker 3: would offer affirmative defense and it would offer vacateer relief.
• 17:44
  Speaker 3: So affirmative defense would be just what I said. A
• 17:47
  Speaker 3: lot of women aren't able to share their stories when
• 17:49
  Speaker 3: they're in court. So this would give them the chance
• 17:53
  Speaker 3: to share their stories. And so they would be able
• 17:57
  Speaker 3: to have like a holistic sentencing. So they would be
• 18:00
  Speaker 3: able to like, you know, even get off, like it
• 18:03
  Speaker 3: would be, they'd be able to share their story. So
• 18:05
  Speaker 3: that would be taken account during court. So it'd be,
• 18:07
  Speaker 3: they're just looking at them for a murder. Like, no,
• 18:09
  Speaker 3: this was a murder to survive. This was a crime
• 18:12
  Speaker 3: that was committed to defend their lives. And so that
• 18:16
  Speaker 3: would be looked at and taken into account in court.
• 18:19
  Speaker 3: And then vacature relief would just allow them to petition
• 18:22
  Speaker 3: the court to vacate their sentences if they're, incarcerated for
• 18:27
  Speaker 3: a survival, something related to survival?
• 18:28
  Speaker 2: Yeah, because I know in Maryland, back in, I think
• 18:32
  Speaker 2: it was like the early 80s, or yeah, I think
• 18:37
  Speaker 2: it was the early 80s, they came out with a
• 18:41
  Speaker 2: law called the.
• 18:42
  Speaker 1: Battered woman syndrome.
• 18:44
  Speaker 2: And what that did, that opened up the door for
• 18:48
  Speaker 2: people that had homicides to offer the defense that because
• 18:57
  Speaker 2: of domestic violence and the bad woman syndrome, when it
• 19:01
  Speaker 2: spoke to the state of mind that the woman was
• 19:04
  Speaker 2: in at the time that the crime was committed, which
• 19:07
  Speaker 2: mitigated the intent. So as opposed to me being premeditated,
• 19:14
  Speaker 2: I'm suffering from the bad woman syndrome, constant domestic abuse, that, okay,
• 19:19
  Speaker 2: when I snap, for lack of a better word, and
• 19:22
  Speaker 2: somebody get killed, It's not that it wasn't my intent.
• 19:27
  Speaker 1: Like, I woke up that morning.
• 19:28
  Speaker 2: And said, yeah, I'm going to kill him because, as
• 19:32
  Speaker 2: opposed to, like, react to this conditioning and respond in kind.
• 19:39
  Speaker 1: So that's what took place in Maryland.
• 19:42
  Speaker 2: What would get me, and maybe you can speak on this, is,
• 19:45
  Speaker 2: you know, the hypocrisy of this country. And because you
• 19:49
  Speaker 2: always got these... domestic violence month, you know, nationwide domestic violence.
• 19:56
  Speaker 1: Year, whatever.
• 19:57
  Speaker 2: And, you know, you parade all these concepts out, but
• 20:04
  Speaker 2: then you got people that are suffering from domestic violence
• 20:09
  Speaker 2: and locked up because their response to it.
• 20:13
  Speaker 1: And as a nation, you don't even look that way. Like,
• 20:17
  Speaker 1: are they criminals?
• 20:18
  Speaker 2: So what's the purpose of having domestic violence a month
• 20:22
  Speaker 2: if you're criminalizing people that's been domestically violent?
• 20:25
  Speaker 1: Can you speak to that?
• 20:27
  Speaker 3: Yeah, definitely. There's a lot of people, like I said,
• 20:30
  Speaker 3: facing mandatory minimums or life sentences because of survivorship. And
• 20:34
  Speaker 3: so that's unfair that... a lot of women, you know,
• 20:39
  Speaker 3: they're just surviving and then they face that. And this
• 20:42
  Speaker 3: does disproportionately impact Black and trans women. And, you know,
• 20:46
  Speaker 3: there's talk that, you know, they don't treat white women
• 20:49
  Speaker 3: the same way, but every woman, you know, like every
• 20:52
  Speaker 3: survivor should be met with resources and treated humanely, not sentenced,
• 20:58
  Speaker 3: not in the land of the free, like not incarcerated.
• 21:03
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 21:05
  Speaker 2: And talk about, the California Coalition for Women Prisoners, because
• 21:12
  Speaker 2: in mid-2000, it was 11,000 women locked up in California prisons.
• 21:17
  Speaker 2: Now it's around 3,700. So talk about their organizing, this
• 21:23
  Speaker 2: particular organization's organizing around changing the narrative where the prison
• 21:29
  Speaker 2: population for women has been reduced and hopefully eradicated at
• 21:34
  Speaker 2: some point.
• 21:36
  Speaker 3: So similarly to how we talked about earlier, a lot
• 21:40
  Speaker 3: of people detained in immigrant detention centers and their families
• 21:43
  Speaker 3: are advocating for contact visits. That's just kind of universal
• 21:47
  Speaker 3: where a lot of impacted people are fighting for their rights.
• 21:50
  Speaker 3: And so this is very similar to what's happening in
• 21:52
  Speaker 3: the California Coalition of Women Prisoners. It's a group of
• 21:55
  Speaker 3: formerly incarcerated women and allies who are fighting to free
• 21:59
  Speaker 3: other women who are incarcerated. And so currently they're leading
• 22:04
  Speaker 3: a campaign to close the prisons in california the women's
• 22:08
  Speaker 3: prisons in california and so they're saying that you know
• 22:12
  Speaker 3: if we were to give relief to all of the
• 22:15
  Speaker 3: women who experienced domestic violence and who were there for
• 22:18
  Speaker 3: low-level crimes non-violent crimes um women who experienced trauma then
• 22:23
  Speaker 3: we could have so few women incarcerated that we could
• 22:27
  Speaker 3: close prisons like they're saying that we people should be
• 22:31
  Speaker 3: in the community, they should be given resources, they shouldn't
• 22:34
  Speaker 3: be incarcerated. And, you know, incarceration is not the solution.
• 22:39
  Speaker 3: And so they've been advocating, they've been advocating for a
• 22:42
  Speaker 3: lot of things like for air conditioning in women's prisons, or,
• 22:47
  Speaker 3: you know, like a member of the California Coalition for
• 22:49
  Speaker 3: Women Prisoners died of a heat stroke last summer. And so,
• 22:53
  Speaker 3: you know, they fought for more protections from the heat.
• 22:59
  Speaker 3: That's something that we face a lot in California. And
• 23:01
  Speaker 3: Also in Texas, they fight for domestic violence survivors. I
• 23:06
  Speaker 3: interviewed a domestic violence survivor for the article that I
• 23:09
  Speaker 3: wrote for Waging Nonviolence about this campaign to close the
• 23:11
  Speaker 3: women prisons. She said that she was just further traumatized
• 23:15
  Speaker 3: in prison. You know, she survived domestic violence and then
• 23:18
  Speaker 3: she was just further. She felt like she had no
• 23:20
  Speaker 3: voice until she met the California Coalition for Women Prisoners,
• 23:24
  Speaker 3: a formerly incarcerated woman who were reaching out to help her.
• 23:27
  Speaker 3: And that's just the kind of support that people need.
• 23:29
  Speaker 3: They don't need prison. They need support with the community.
• 23:32
  Speaker 3: They need to be with people who understand their experiences.
• 23:35
  Speaker 3: And so that's just kind of the movement that's happening
• 23:38
  Speaker 3: in California. And then I also want to say there
• 23:40
  Speaker 3: is this movement that I've noticed to close, to end
• 23:46
  Speaker 3: the incarceration of girls in California and in Hawaii. There's
• 23:50
  Speaker 3: a movement to get young girls out of juvenile detention.
• 23:55
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 23:56
  Speaker 3: Advocates see this. So getting women out of prison, getting
• 23:59
  Speaker 3: girls out of prison as a broader movement for incarceration.
• 24:03
  Speaker 3: So there's a, to end incarceration for abolition. So they're
• 24:07
  Speaker 3: saying that, you know, there's such a small population of
• 24:10
  Speaker 3: girls and women that are incarcerated compared to men that
• 24:13
  Speaker 3: if we could target those first, then we could target
• 24:16
  Speaker 3: the men and we could just have abolition. Yeah.
• 24:19
  Speaker 2: And that's, that's not a bad strategy, you know, an
• 24:23
  Speaker 2: effective one, because as I noted, The prison population for
• 24:27
  Speaker 2: females has been reduced. Victoria Valenzuela. You rattled the bars today.
• 24:32
  Speaker 2: Let me say that. You got the last word. What
• 24:37
  Speaker 2: do you want to tell our audience on how they
• 24:39
  Speaker 2: can get in touch with you or how they can
• 24:41
  Speaker 2: support your movement?
• 24:43
  Speaker 3: Sure. So you can add me on LinkedIn, Victoria Valenzuela.
• 24:46
  Speaker 3: You can also subscribe to my sub stack. That's where
• 24:49
  Speaker 3: I wrote the story about domestic violence survivors being incarcerated
• 24:53
  Speaker 3: for my sub stack. Like I said, it's with my heart,
• 24:55
  Speaker 3: Victoria Valenzuela. And I read a lot about families and
• 24:59
  Speaker 3: individuals impacted by incarceration there. And yeah, LinkedIn is a
• 25:03
  Speaker 3: good way to get in touch with me. I also
• 25:05
  Speaker 3: on my sub stack, I'll post other articles that I
• 25:07
  Speaker 3: write for other places because I'm a freelance journalist. So
• 25:10
  Speaker 3: I'll post like a snippet of what I wrote for
• 25:12
  Speaker 3: other places with a link to where to read more.
• 25:14
  Speaker 3: And so you could follow me that way.