Latest / CINEMACTIVIST / S03E03 - Meet Jill Killington
Transcript
- John C. Lyons: Hi everybody, this is John Lyons and you're listening to Cinema Activist. I have a special awesome kick ass guest today, Jill Killington, producer, director, writer, author, extraordinaire. Jill: Extraordinaire. Yeah, it's just any anything you can do. ⁓ John C. Lyons: I'm probably leaving some some of your multi hyphenates out, but maybe we'll get into some of them as we're chatting. So welcome, Jill. Jill: Hi, thank you, John. John C. Lyons: Great to see you. Jill: Great to see you. I'm we've never met in person, but I we've talked quite a bit and I enjoy talking with you. John C. Lyons: Same and hopefully someday we do get to meet in person. Jill: ⁓ we'll definitely meet up. We ca we can't not meet. John C. Lyons: Yeah. It's been too long. We've been talking for let's see. I'm trying to remember when we first started chatting. I think it was like Jill: ⁓ I should have I should have got into my records. I believe it was the beginning of twenty twenty four. John C. Lyons: Yeah, it was either late 2023 or early twenty twenty-four, and we had an idea. maybe it was I was talking to Adam Stilwell, who's been on Cinema Activist a couple episodes as well. ⁓ yeah, we were talking about, you know, the state of independent filmmaking, and we started to form this group ⁓ with the three of us and Ashley Sneed called Jill: Cool. John C. Lyons: Cinema circus, right? Jill: Look, Cinema Circus is still on the docket of things to do. It's just like it's I think it might be expanding because I think we all have to be promoting ringleaders all the time for our projects now, right? You can't just put it out there and wait. You have to promote. John C. Lyons: Absolutely. Yeah, it's a lot of it's a lot of work to be an independent filmmaker. You have to wear a lot of hats. More hats than you even needed to just a few years ago. You have to also market yourself. Jill: I mean, that is a hundred percent true, but it I'd rather be wearing a lot of hats myself. I've worked as a professional filmmaker, commercial filmmaker, TV, I've done a lot of different things. Indie is is the new way. And I always admired people like Roger Corman, who just went out there and did it, encouraged other people to go out there and did it, discovered other talents, made friends along the way in great movies. It's like that's to me what it's about, you know. John C. Lyons: Hell yeah. Yeah, absolutely. I agree. You definitely have that in die entrepreneurial spirit and drive, which is something ⁓ I I really admire. Jill: You met me at a point in my life where I've had to become this monster that I am now because I used to be such a sweet, nice, shy girl. But yeah, that that girl didn't get paid enough. Nobody wanted to read her scripts. Let me tell you, when you come to LA and you're about twenty four years old and you're a real wide eyed young woman, nobody wants to read your scripts, but they're gonna pretend they wanna read your scripts. So at least back in those days. I think now they people actually listen to each other, but John C. Lyons: Yeah. Reading scripts is difficult. Jill: It's a different time. John C. Lyons: I think so. We're we're a little better at it, right? We're a little it's still difficult to read a feature script of somebody. ⁓ it's it can be tough. Jill: Look, yeah, I again it's like that was a good lesson for me because ⁓ when I first moved to LA, nobody wanted to read my feature scripts. I got a job being an assistant on a TV show, but then I simultaneously was acting in commercials as as like, you know, a random burger eater or car rider in like in the back of a car or something. And people would see me in that and be all excited to talk to me about like, ⁓ yeah, we saw you in the hamburger commercial. And I was just like That was one second of advertising and it worked. And now people think I'm an actor. And it's like, really, that was just like the highest paying job I could get at the time compared to being an assistant. You get paid in one day, like, you know, for a commercial, like what it would take, like a week or two for me as an assistant. So you learned, you learned the economics of time and interest and value. And yeah. John C. Lyons: Okay. Yeah. All right. Before we jump into getting into the industry, what do you want to share about whatever you're comfortable with? Because ⁓ I think I ⁓ messaged you and said, I do feel like there's comedy in in your bones. You have like a natural talent there, but I'm curious. Jill: Look, I'm I like I said, I'm a survivor and an entertainer and people it's all about the like, hey, this is the next big thing coming. But yeah, ⁓ I guess I I love comedy. I love horror with a lot of comedy. Wait, you just you wanted me to talk about I didn't start as a stand-up or anything weird like that. I was definitely too shy for that. John C. Lyons: Yeah, I just wondered like when like when you were a kid, what did you want I what did you want to be when you were growing up initially that you can remember? Jill: Because because you asked like what I was like as a kid in the email, I brought out school photo vibes. That is some sad shit right there. And it's like the first thing you think is like, I hope sh I hope it likes to read. And it's like, Yes, it did. It didn't like to read. So yeah, I would that's what I was like as a kid. I was an avid ⁓ reader and always wanted to learn and imagine more through books and movies and John C. Lyons: Whoa. No. Jill: That's how it all began. That's just deep down in it. John C. Lyons: Okay. So you had a very active and creative mind. Did you like, ⁓ did you write? Did you draw? Did you paint? Did you do music? Did you do everything? What'd you what were your interests? Jill: Yes, very I did like ⁓ I'm I'm half Filipino so I did like the piano lessons as a kid. I was never a great musician ⁓ as a child, but ⁓ I've always liked dabbling in music. I always liked writing. My drawing skills were never so great. I think actually my mom, she didn't want me to be left ⁓ left-handed, so I was forced to be right-handed. I think that probably ⁓ stopped me from being a person with great handwriting and great drawing skills. But regardless, yeah, I just always wanted to John C. Lyons: ⁓ wow. Mine still. Jill: understand people and communicate better and share ⁓ interesting visions of the world and points of view and that made me love reading, writing and ⁓ not so much theater, but always movies and TV. John C. Lyons: Okay. So then what was like your I mean, did you go to school after like grade school? Okay. What'd you go to school for? Jill: Yeah, ⁓ yeah, you mean high school? ⁓ you mean you mean like college? ⁓ I went to school for f ⁓ for filmmaking. Yeah. I mean I've I really I bought into the dream of like, you know, you go to film school, you make a movie, and that's why it's like I can't turn back at this point in history. Like it's I've been at this so long and I'm I'm making the dream real again. There's always like peop there's always a moment where like the industry is not doing so hot, whether it's like John C. Lyons: Yeah. Okay, so you're the real deal, Jill. Yeah. Yeah. Jill: the 70s Easy Rider Raging Bulls moment or like the 90s indie cinema rise where it's like all of a sudden, you know, Steven Soderberg and ⁓ Quentin Tarantino are like reinventing the industry. Rodriguez, it's like right now it's like, okay, I've I've been through several phases of this industry now on on so many different levels. Literally became a Jill of all trades. But it's like, it's like all skills, but also like you learn how to trade for favors, you learn how to trade for John C. Lyons: Rodriguez and Yep. Jill: You know, time, like there's just different ways of getting things done. John C. Lyons: When did you ⁓ move out west? Did you move out west for school or have you always lived there or? Jill: No. No, I grew up in Atlanta, Georgia, which ⁓ later became a a giant film hub. During the time I gr was growing up though, it was more like Burt Reynolds movies would sometimes shoot there. It wasn't it wasn't like, you know, the the biggest hub for like Marvel movies at that point. But yeah, I moved out yeah, d completely different vibe. And then John C. Lyons: Yeah. Got it. Different vibe. Burt Reynolds was a different vibe. Jill: After I graduated film school, I don't like to advertise my film school because I didn't ⁓ enjoy my experience there. So I don't like to endorse No, I don't I don't want to endorse them. Like it's just like if if anyone can figure out what film school I went to and it ever matters, I'm interested. But it's like I don't think getting a film degree mattered. It was good for connections and good for ⁓ the l lasting friendships I made. But, you know, in this day and age, John C. Lyons: Got it. I was gonna ask that if you felt like it was Yeah. Jill: Go to the school hard knocks. I don't that is sort of my thoughts. John C. Lyons: Yeah, I honestly I I was gonna ask you about that if you felt like it was worth it honestly. And it sounds like if you still have connections from there, it was worth it to an extent, probably. Like connections is worth that. Jill: At during that time period, it was the best way for me to meet like minded people. But nowadays I would say like, you know, you can find like minded people so easily online. And I was doing this actually that's how I found my film school online. So again, it's just like I maybe it's better that I went to film school, but I still just don't necessarily now it's easier to just pick up your phone and start shooting and figure out how to get things done. You know, it's just like it was a very different time. John C. Lyons: Yeah. Jill: But yeah, after film school, I moved out to LA. ⁓ I started trying to get like jobs. And as I was getting jobs as an assistant and trying to get people to read my scripts, ⁓ because I'm half Filipina, half white, American, ⁓ what do you call it? Cal Caucasian. I I had an interesting look and I also had like bright pink hair. ⁓ right when I first moved out here, yeah, because I was very art school weird. John C. Lyons: Mm-hmm. ⁓ wow. All right. Jill: And I started booking commercials and ⁓ you know that was a great exposure and supplement to my financial needs for for living in Los Angeles. And yeah, it it helped launch me in immediately. The first thing I did once I booked a commercial and got paid, I bought an editing computer. And after that I could always do like editing jobs on the side and yeah, it's I'm I I've I'm always like a planner and survivor. John C. Lyons: How many no, I get I get that for sure. That that comes through in the short amount I've known you. You you grind it out for sure, but how many ⁓ scripts did you have when you went out to LA and were they shorts? Were they features? What what were Jill: ⁓ I had like maybe two features and two s ⁓ spec TV episodes like ready to go. Yeah, and I got lots of meetings from them and but really I got I got lucky I got a job as an assistant on ⁓ a TV show that did really well but then my boss got fired from that because he was making too much money. John C. Lyons: Okay. Jill: And ⁓ had like a little beef with the showrunner. Again, I really I don't even know why he was fired because I was like the assistant. But again, it was just like one of those No, no, that was long before Dick or that wasn't long before Dick House. That was on this show ⁓ what's it called? ⁓ The Shield. Yeah. As as a super uncredited assistant. So because I was like personal assistant to to one of the writers. John C. Lyons: Was that it, Dick House? Okay. ⁓ okay. ⁓ wow. You were on the shield. How about that? Okay. I was gonna say I didn't Yep. Okay. All right. How so how was that? That was your so how long were you ⁓ in LA before you kind of landed ⁓ there? Would you say? Jill: ⁓ very quickly, like within a month or two. Yeah. I mean, I again I've had the gift of timing at certain points in my life. And ⁓ I actually I've I've I've been very, very lucky. but yeah, right when I first moved to LA, I I really needed to get a job right away. And so luckily I got that and then started booking a couple big commercials like within months. So it was just like, okay, I'm I'm doing this, like this is a good start. And then I just sort of like, John C. Lyons: That's amazing. That's great. Jill: after a couple of good assistant breaks and I just wrote out the commercial thing in anonymity while I was writing and would sometimes pop up like getting jobs on reality shows and stuff, but ⁓ yeah, nothing nothing that I really dug and it was just like figuring out how to keep paying the bills and not Yeah. But it's it's still like working as an assistant or like taking like freelance editing jobs. It's not like you're set. You know? Yeah. John C. Lyons: Mm. Well you were working, yeah, you were working. Okay. Yeah. So you had to have ⁓ multiple jobs that you were kind of juggling to Jill: Yes. Like I learned I literally learned how to juggle jobs through credit cards and like, you know, got ⁓ I think one of my skill sets that I've learned is how to leverage credit. Cause it's I mean, it really it was super important for me as a commercial actor because I'd see like, ⁓ okay, like I have a national network commercial going, that's gonna be worth a few thousand dollars. I don't have my rent money yet, so I need to juggle things on the credit cards. John C. Lyons: ⁓ wow, damn. Yeah. Jill: And yeah, that turned out to be, you know, one of the lesson it because I didn't have yeah, like family backing or any of that sort of stuff, I just really needed to get smart about like how to spend my time and money. But yeah. Random. John C. Lyons: Okay, yeah, I was gonna ask you if you knew anybody out there ahead before going there or were you out totally solo? Like did you have any connections at Jill: I had a few ⁓ the that I that was one of the better things about ⁓ my f my going to film school is I knew other people from my film school who are in the same boat. ⁓ there wasn't really like alumni support or anything like that, but at least I had like people I could room with. Like that was like the this when I first moved to LA it was like everybody has like three, four roommates, as many people as you can cram into an apartment, you know, kind of thing. So I was able to do that and then John C. Lyons: Mm-hmm. Jill: It's yeah. ⁓ around the time that I moved out to LA, a commercial actor named Johnny Knoxville ⁓ started a T V show called Jackass. And I knew him through ⁓ my boyfriend who was related to him, like as a distant country cousin. And he turned out to be like always a great help to me. Like he helped me get my first commercial agent because he was like, ⁓ you could do this. Like I I know plenty of girls who look like you get this kind of work. And it turned out to be like a good John C. Lyons: Yeah. No chip. Jill: A good fit, so yeah John C. Lyons: Okay, yeah, I wondered I wondered how you got involved in the Jack S crew. Wow. Okay. All right. So you knew somebody and then what were your Jill: Yeah, that's how. But again, it wasn't like it was like as all that was happening. So it wasn't like he was already like made. It was like seeing seeing that start and then seeing a few other people I know get get kind of like successful during that time and like watching the shield blow up. It's like there was a few things where it's like, okay, I can s I see how people become successful. You find a group of friends and like minded individuals and then like you all like, you know, keep each other sane or ⁓ on track. John C. Lyons: Yeah. Yeah. That's really cool. So what was your first okay, so you worked you know, some T V shows, you were doing some commercial work acting, and then that led into so is that basically the next thing in the Okay. Okay. Jill: It's all happening at once. Like it's like I mean, you know, it's like I'm at at the same time I'm like acting commercials, I'm like working as assistant and then like sneaking off for more commercial auditions during lunches and stuff like that. Because it's like this could be my lottery ticket to not show up to work. So I take the risk. John C. Lyons: Yeah. Yeah. So take anything, any opportunity that came your way, kind of a thing. Jill: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Not every opportunity. There's definitely like like yeah. I'm just saying, yeah, I've lived in LA a long time. People people make offers and you don't take every offer. John C. Lyons: Okay. I won't I won't ask you to delve delve deeper. Of course. That's good advice. That's good advice, kids. Don't don't take every offer. Do I imagine, yeah, you did some due diligence and did some ⁓ background and looking up and Jill: Yeah. Instincts. Gotta try always trust your instincts. John C. Lyons: Okay. Check in with your spidey sense kind of a thing. Jill: Yep, and always no like the other thing is like I've always been like very clear about where I want to go if for my future. And so it's just like does this lead me to the path I want or not? It's like that's that's the things you learn from reading books. You see all these like, you know, different versions of how life can go for people. ⁓ you read great biographies and it's like, ⁓ this is how they did that. Yeah. John C. Lyons: Okay. Yeah. So I I think your first credit that I saw on IMDB is ⁓ what's it called? Loiter squad? Jill: ⁓ yeah, that was ⁓ a Jackass ⁓ produced show. Like ⁓ Jeff Tremain, the creator of Jackass, produced on that. And that's how I got involved in that. Well, that was a show that was on a network called Call Cartoon Network, and it was ⁓ part of their Adult Swim ⁓ live action block. So ⁓ because that was a live action show, it was non-union and I was credited as a story producer on that. But on a show like that, like John C. Lyons: So what did you do on that show? Jill: I I did a lot of different things. I like story produced, which is like, you know, you're helping with the story. So it's like I ran the writer's room second season. First season I was more of an editor, like we're like putting it together and then like then we started like planning pickups and things and posts. It just I did I did a lot of different things on that. Yeah. John C. Lyons: Okay. So you learned a lot, I'm sure, on that one. If you're if you're running around wearing a lot of hats, filling in all the gaps, whatever's needed, kind of a thing. Jill: Mm-hmm. ⁓ yeah. Well, 'cause was like a sketch show that was like a live action show about like Tyler the creator and and his friends from Odd Future. And so is like we're mixing concert footage, footage of the real guys, and then also doing a lot of like skits and like little story bits. So like we do like a parody of like training day, but instead of it being they're cops, they're they're in a diner and it's like you training to work at the restaurant, you know? And so it's like we'd be doing a parody shooting it. more like a commercial or a ⁓ a movie would be shop and then other bits we would shoot like a reality show or we're like filming the kids like pranking each other or like skating or something. John C. Lyons: Okay. All right. So yeah, it definitely fits in with the jackass vibes a bit too. Jill: Yeah, and then it's like in post we would like do really fun stuff to make it weirder. And so it was just like I I really enjoyed working on that show because we got to go to Hawaii. We got to ⁓ shoot a lot of like fun funny skits and ⁓ yeah, have a have an amazing time editing it too. John C. Lyons: Wow, wow. Cool. So at that point, ⁓ all right, so you were working in post two and then you were kind of working on what Jill: To warn you, c you're covering like 25 years of time in a in a so it's like and I've I've like changed identities a few times because like Jill Kill became like you know, this helps focus people on like what I do. Like Jill Killington, Jill Kill, that's like my my final name. I had no name. I was just like nameless artist as a commercial actor and like a as as a freelance editor. But yeah, once I once I switched over to Jill Kill, I was like, ⁓ okay, like people knew more what to do with me. They like John C. Lyons: Yeah. Yeah. Jill: New to call me around Halloween. And then it's like if you're doing like horror or thriller or something like a little ⁓ a little dangerous. Call me up. Yeah. John C. Lyons: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. yeah, you definitely are you you're not shy about like taking risks and throwing yourself out there and and stuff, but just Jill: I gotta risk it all, John. Life is a risk. The only risk is not taking a risk, you know. John C. Lyons: I I know. Right. But I think it is informative to like, you know, for for people that listen to this to hear, you know, how you got your start and, you know, how you had to work toward, you know, and juggle and do a bunch of things and wear a lot of different hats. Like it sounds like you were, you know, with this project, you were involved with like both the story and the development side and the post side. It sounds like it was it was kind of a Jill: we would shoot with like about a crew of about 20 and then post with like a crew of like we'd we'd have like five editors at a time editing the eleven minute episode. So it was like that was cool because I I learned to work with a lot of editors and I've always liked that on TV, having a lot of editors. ⁓ but yeah, it was a very, very small ⁓ crew on that actually. It was more like shooting indie films, which is like always John C. Lyons: Like how big was the crew on something like that? On the Loiter one? Jill: I've always enjoyed like sort of like the how lean can a crew be, because it's like if everybody is like very on the same page, you can be very lean and like have even a better result because everybody's so focused. ⁓ e even though like on a show like that it was like very goofy and loose and like more like shooting jackass. So it's like again, it's ⁓ I'm I'm flexible. I've like worked on like giant, giant crew ⁓ kind of ⁓ TV shows and movies and then tiny, tiny stuff too. So John C. Lyons: Yeah. Yeah. So did Jackass kind of grow out of that show or was it happening at the same time? Jill: No, Jackass, this is ⁓ Loiter Squad was like twenty ten, twenty eleven when we were doing that, twenty tw eleven, twenty twelve. ⁓ Jackass started in two thousand. So yep. John C. Lyons: ⁓ okay. Yeah. Okay. All right. Got it. So this is once they were kind of already established in the production company of Jill: ⁓ this is like way like ⁓ Jackass had had several hit movies at that point and then spun off like a show called ridiculousness. So yeah, they've they'd been very successful and it's just like another another branch of the tree of the money tree. John C. Lyons: Okay. Understood. So how how did you get involved with ⁓ there were some feature films like All We Had and Cardboard Boxer? How did those come about? Jill: Those were both ⁓ with a production company I was working with at the time called Midworld. ⁓ that was by my ⁓ friend Josh Boone, who directed Fault in Our Stars and ⁓ a TV show that we all worked on called The Stand. I'd known him for years and he knew that I was always like a big Stephen King fan. And so when he was pitching to get to do a screenplay of the stand for Warner Brothers, I was like, look, that's been my favorite book since childhood. I know exactly how you how to, you know, because of my experience as an editor and a writer, it's like I know how to adapt. Like I even there you go. Even as a child, ⁓ I should show you my marked up version of the stand. ⁓ I have several of them because we have like marked up ⁓ the the shortest version from 78 and then like the 90s expansion. Anyway, I'd always because I kind of grew up a little bit poorer, ⁓ I would John C. Lyons: Yeah. Jill: read books from the library when I couldn't rent the movies. And so I would look I would look at either the movie first or the book and then the book later or book first and the movie later. And I was always comparing and contrasting like how do you adapt to the screen this stuff? ⁓ this is too internal to shoot or like, you know, impossible to to dramatize. So you you change it for the final IP. Anyway, ⁓ I That's how I got involved in adapting the book All We Had for Katie Holmes to direct. ⁓ jo she was originally trying to get Josh to write it. And we were adapting the stand at the time. He's like, look, help me take this extra job. And I did, and we did that while our other producing partner, Nate Lee, ⁓ was directing this movie Cardboard Boxer. And then in post-production, we took we helped him reshape it because again, like John C. Lyons: Yeah. Jill: When you shoot a movie, sometimes the scenes you want ⁓ don't work out quite the same way. And so we either do pickups or rewrites and ADRs and posts, and so we did quite a bit of that. So that's how I I became involved in that film too, which is like another indie that was shot here in LA. But all we had was shot in New York and directed by Katie Holmes. So that was interesting to see like how Katie Holmes stars in a movie and directs at the same time using our book book adaptation ⁓ for a book that she optioned, all we had. John C. Lyons: Yeah. Jill: And seeing like how she spent $3 million versus like Cardboard Boxer, which was initially set to be $3 million, but was shot for less in Los Angeles, ⁓ starring Thomas Hayden Church and ⁓ God, I'm I'm I'm forgetting his name right now. My favorite ⁓ interview. What's his name? Terence Terrence Howard. I love my no Terrence Howard, Terrence Howard. but yeah, that was an indie movie shot here in LA, and so seeing how John C. Lyons: I can hold on, let's look ⁓ up. We can we can Okay. Terrence Howard. ⁓ yeah. Jill: Katie Holmes spends spends money on a on a feature in New York versus how we spent it in LA. It was interesting. John C. Lyons: Yeah, absolutely. What were your okay, so yeah, you learned ⁓ like a lower Jill: I've been at I've been at this game on various levels for a long time. So it's like trying to go over my resume is a little weird. John C. Lyons: No, good. Well what were your roles? ⁓ what were some of the roles then that you played on those two features? And what did you like about those? Were you starting to find your Jill: On all we had on all we had, I I wrote this yeah, I wrote I wrote the script ⁓ for all we had with Boone ⁓ credited, co-credited, but it was you know it was mostly me ⁓ for for Iller for for whatever. But but then again it was reinterpreted for the screen by Katie as director. ⁓ but that's I I basically ⁓ helped her shape that from the beginning of adaptation. John C. Lyons: Yeah, so Jill: And then I was credited as executive producer for that because you know that's sort of like ⁓ one of the things you do in the industry, you give a very good credit for somebody who's writing because it's like I really I worked on that for like maybe a year before it went into production and was there for like the first week of shooting and stuff. and then for Cardboard Boxer, that was really like a post-producer role, but I was still credited as coexecutive producer on that because I really I basically did that for free. Yeah. John C. Lyons: ⁓ wow. Okay. For experience. For the work. Yeah. Jill: I mean to help to help ⁓ get something done, you know, like when a movie's already shot and you just need to take it over the line to post, it's like I can do that. John C. Lyons: And so okay, so out of that is I assume when the stand happened. And is it true you were trying to do the stand as a feature? Like Jill: ⁓ yeah, we w I adapted the stand literally for six years. Like that was yeah, we started that as a feature in twenty fourteen. went through several John C. Lyons: Okay. How many writers were on that at that point in time? Jill: That is a very complicated question because at that point the stand had been ⁓ it was supposed to be adapted for like thirty years. Like ⁓ so when when we finally shot the TV show in 2019, it was interesting because they had to they had to ⁓ pay the back debt for all these writers who had done drafts for years and years and years, like including like Ben Affleck did a version, George Romero did a version. John C. Lyons: ⁓ wow. Jill: But what when we were working on it, ⁓ it was just me and Josh Boone ⁓ for the first year or so, like he was the main credited writer, he was the one hired by the by the studios. I was the unknown person behind him, which I again I've been uncredited on a lot of my things. As long as I'm paid or enjoy my my ⁓ my ⁓ what's it called, my time. for again, I would do anything for that book at that point because it was my favorite book since childhood. ⁓ you saw the kid with the glasses. She loved that book. That was about the age I was discovering the book Firestarter and like, you know, went through every Stephen King book until I got to the stand by the time I was like thirteen or something. But ⁓ but yeah, so we s it was just the two of us. But then they were all that was when I was learning the hard lesson of like how the meat grinder of screenplays work in Los Angeles, you know, it's like they kept on trying to fire him and get bigger writers, and at the same time I was adapting Interview with the Vampire with him. John C. Lyons: Yeah. Jill: Which is ⁓ an Anne Rice book that's now a TV show. But at the time we were adapting it for universal, ⁓ Imagine Entertainment and KO paper products. So it's like we had a whole group of people on that. Anyway, so 2014 to 2015, or I guess even 2018, it was just me and Boone working on it. And then ⁓ by then we were adapting it as a series for CBS. ⁓ all access, which is what Paramount Plus used to be, basically. And at that point, new writers were brought in. we had our showrunner Ben Cavell. We had Owen King, ⁓ who's an amazing author in his own right, as well as the son of Stephen King, and ⁓ Knate Lee our producing partner from Cardboard Boxer, was also brought in. John C. Lyons: Okay. Yeah. You're getting me in the right in the like The Stand was my favorite book as well when I was ⁓ in grade school for sure. Yeah. Jill: ⁓ Yeah. It was and so that's the thing is like I was like, I can go back to my childhood. I mean, that's the thing. It literally, it's about dreams coming true. It's about following the signs and your heart in life. It's like all about like who you want to be and who you choose to be every single day. It's like I was like, I know how to adapt this. I know I can guide this. And it's like I have to say, six years of working on that, and the real pandemic came happened, you know, the stand is about a giant ⁓ epidemic killing off ninety-nine percent of humanity. John C. Lyons: Like a dream project. Jill: And this and so just like following the side survivors of that. That was the weirdest experience of my life to have all that happening at the time that we just finished shooting this TV show. And then we had it come out during the pandemic when it it p it wasn't finding an audience because it's like it's was on CBS All Access and then Paramount Plus. We had like a Zoom call premiere party. It was like so depressing and barely anybody watched it. John C. Lyons: Yeah. Yeah. Jill: And it was one of these things where it's like, wow, I poured six years of my life into this. This is like my childhood dream. And then meanwhile, I was like having to get people to download the app. Like I was having to give directions on like how to find the app, how to pay for it. The app wasn't working. There was like crazy stuff. And I was just like, wow, I need to rethink what I'm doing. And that it was at that point where I was like, I really want to produce and direct my own indies. So it's like I can guide something all the way through and make sure that like this is John C. Lyons: How do I even watch it? Jill: you know, ⁓ exactly the way I wanted to be. Cause I'd always been one of the many cooks in a kitchen. I wanted to be the chef. And like, you know, 'cause it's like on the stand, there are crazy moments in that adaptation where it's just like, ⁓ like what if we there was there's a moment where like they wanted it to be like the Marvel series where it's like, ⁓ what if we're gonna doing the stand, it's so expensive to shoot this. What if we just do a Stu Redmond movie? What if we just take one character and it's like, okay, you start trying to do that and you realize John C. Lyons: Mm. Yeah. Jill: it kind becomes 28 days later a walking dead. So it's like this 40 year legacy of this book, or I guess 50 year legacy of this book at this point. ⁓ it made it so hard to adapt because it was like already adapted basically in in, you know, under different names in pop culture, if you take out different components. So it's like it was really like I'm glad we were able to do it to do it as a series because it's the kind of story that benefits from you know, it's about John C. Lyons: ⁓ Jill: ⁓ collective bravery and all these different people having their parts and and it all coming together. And so that's why I love I I'm you you know me. I'm very collaborative and open to like what everybody has to say because it's like to me the stand it's like it's not about one character, it's about all these characters coming together. So yeah. John C. Lyons: Yeah. Yeah. For sure. Yeah, absolutely. ⁓ I I'm just fascinated that to try it as a feature initially it just seems so Jill: It was we ⁓ the the idea was to do it sort of this was this was Josh Boone's pitch was to do it nonlinear and to do basically we we found like the the most ⁓ essential moments of the stand in the in the ⁓ initial feature version of it was still gonna like almost a three-hour feature. But it was it was like jumping around in time and basically following the story of Harold Lauder to John C. Lyons: ⁓ okay. Jill: To because he is like the greatest change and plot character of the story. But yeah, it was insanely expensive to try and shoot. But it was a very, very good script. And Stephen King loved it. And we had like people like Neil Gaiman saying it was great. Like we made we we seeded the right people approving of this script. And that's how we were able to land jobs like Interview the Vampire. And then at the same time, our production company, ⁓ Josh, was also able to land the job for New Mutants because, like, look, he made Fault in Our Stars. John C. Lyons: Mm-hmm. Yeah. High players. Jill: Look how good he is at adapting things. Like that was that was how we managed to do all that. John C. Lyons: Yeah, that's very interesting. I can I can I feel your pain with releasing during the pandemic, like Un Earth our last film came out during the pandemic and so it was like, you know, the highs of like, ⁓ we're making like all these festivals that we can't go to and they're just on Zoom and Jill: Everybody was was having the best plans for twenty twenty until it until the pandemic. John C. Lyons: Yep. Yeah, so that's that is rough. And yeah, you were in a on a new platform before it was on Paramount. I mean I Jill: We were on the we were the last show to ever air on CBS All Access and always knew it would be that way, but it was like we we really got buried in a strange way. Like it's crazy. Like I'll tell people like, ⁓ I worked on the stand. They're like, Wait, you worked on the nineties one? I was like, No, I was a child during that. Like I worked on one that came out in twenty or that stars Whoopi Goldberg and Alexander Skarsgard and James Marsden and J.K. Simmons and all these huge actors. They're like, That sounds really cool. When's it coming out? And I'm like, Twenty twenty, it came out. Yeah. John C. Lyons: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I I don't have Paramount, so I bought it. ⁓ like I I think I bought it when around when we first met, probably. ⁓ 'cause I was I was very curious. No, I liked it and the the sets were like ⁓ I I just remember like the visuals I remember are like that last huge multi story set, like or whatever that was. ⁓ Jill: What'd you think? You can tell me. Vegas. The the pools of blood. That was that was my favorite set. Like that was a scene that that those episodes were specifically like the things I was proud of, proudest of that I contributed to the stand. Like literally, I I have to send you the pictures. I have pictures of me literally on like the top floor, and you can see the pool of blood at the bottom floor of this hotel. It was a hotel in Ven ⁓ outside of Vancouver that we shot in ⁓ called the Pink Palace. And ⁓ that's where we made our Vegas set. John C. Lyons: Yeah, the giant Vegas. Yeah. Okay. Well that that's very memorable. Yeah, that was very memorable. Jill: Yeah, that was that's my favorite thing. John C. Lyons: ⁓ I got disconnected for some reason again. Sorry about that. ⁓ okay. So wow, the stand, like your dream job. How long were you? And you worked on it for six years, you said, to in total. Jill: No worries. My dream job that nobody knew about. Yeah, I worked on it for six years and then we went into produ ⁓ we went into the writer's room officially for it. It was greenlit, like it it basically it took a long time for the rights to clear. Like I realize now that the when we first were writing the screenplay, it was basically sometimes with screenwriting, nobody actually wants to make ⁓ the project that you're writing, which is really hard when you're the screenwriter because you still have to imagine every scene, think through the plot, like every moment as if you're gonna go shoot this in a month. But in actuality, it's all just like a bargaining chip for one reason. Like either people want, like, ⁓ look, we want to talk about how we're making this, but it's too financially risky to make it. Or they just want to retain the rights in this particular sni situation. But again, because the script was good, because it's like a fool's errand, basically, to make a movie version of the stand. But then basically, like True Detective and all these like long-running series were getting to be popular. And so ⁓ we started talking, we literally did a campaign. To to with the help of CAA and because CBS owned the rights, we did a campaign, like either this needs to be a series of movies like Lord of the Rings and Harry Potter, or it needs to be a s a TV show. And so the rights reverted to CBS and they're like, hey, we want to put this on CBS All Access. And then it took like another two or three years of legal wrangling for for the rights to be cleared to do it as a TV show. And then it's like Suddenly summer of 2018, we were finally greenlit. And it was even for a second, it was like, ⁓ we're still not gonna do this. We're gonna have to wait more months. And it was just like, ⁓ my God, like I was so broke at that moment. I was like, please start this writer's room. And then we started writing in summer of 2018 and went through all these different iterations of the script and then started in production late 2019 and wrapped shooting after five, five or six months of shooting in Vancouver, right before the real pandemic. Like literally because it was such a diverse cast of like, you know, all these different actors. We have Whoopi Goldberg, Ezra Miller, Amber Heard, Greg Kinnear, all these actors are in it. Cause it's like I said, it's like a story about a huge group of people coming together. If we had made it only halfway through production, we never would have finished. Like it just would have been impossible. So we got very lucky we wrapped right before the pandemic actually started. And literally our crew was getting footage in Vegas as the real Vegas was closing down. And we were able to use some of that for the show. John C. Lyons: ⁓ yeah. That sounds like Yeah. Jill: I get it's it's I've had a I've had a very wild ride in this industry and that's why I just like shooting indie movies to me is like that's a no brainer, you know what I mean? Like it's like I I can I can once I can hire my own crews, it's like that's it's done, you know. John C. Lyons: Yeah, that's Yeah, 'cause you're used to having to pivot a lot, it sounds like, especially on on that project. Jill: I mean, yeah, it's my whole life has been like, how how do we make this work? How do we make the best out of the situation? Like John C. Lyons: Right. So you get okay, so then the stand happens, which is amazing. Yeah, and like it like when you told me or when I saw that it was originally gonna be a feature, I was like, ⁓ man, that would have maybe went like the Dark Tower route, which was a very disappointing Jill: We a hundred percent this is the crazy thing, is it's like I was working with the producers of the Dark Tower while we were doing interview with Vampire and they were telling us stuff about the Dark Tower and I was just like, hmm, that's that sounds like an interesting choice for how to do that. This is a very hard to adapt thing. I don't ⁓ I don't necessarily see the vision here, but at the same time we loved Matthew McConaughey, the idea of him as the dark man. We love the idea of Idris Elba, but it's like John C. Lyons: Yeah. Jill: th while we were adapting Interview of the Vampire and the Vampire Chronicles, we were being encouraged to make a lot of the same sort of like leave the books behind, leave leave your idea of the characters behind. We really are only interested in the IP and like changing it into whatever we want. And I was just like, Well, then why are you paying the money for these giant IPs that like the fans are gonna expect to see at least some of the ideas of the characters in the books. And so again, ⁓ to me it's like I've seen how the sausage is made. Whenever people ask, like, ⁓ why does Hollywood do such crappy adaptations? I can tell you it's too many cooks in the kitchen, the wrong cooks. people like me who I'm like, hey, remember this book? Not listened to most of the time. And l again, unless ⁓ you get lucky or you get powerful, I don't know. There's it's there's just so many reasons movies go astray and TV shows. John C. Lyons: Yeah. So what would you say are your lessons coming out of such a huge, massive, like mammoth big budget project? Was it like all of a sudden you're like, Okay, this has taken like a lot of my life. I wanna start, like you said, making my own things. And then what else did you learn from like working? Jill: Number one lesson, I used to be like a fuck fuck what happens on set. Sorry, I'm I'm allowed to cuss on this, right? ⁓ I was like, I don't care necessarily like you know what happens on set. It's all about like, you know, what what you capture on screen. Like that's that's the thing that matters. Now I am absolutely insistent on needing to enjoy my life. You know, it's like that because at that that show. John C. Lyons: All right. ⁓ Jill: We had so much money to produce that, but yet still not enough. Like that always is like the case because like well once the once the crew got so so big, it's just like, wait, like do we really need all these people? Why are we in Vancouver? You know, ⁓ it's like that's the thing. I at that mo there was a moment where I was driving to that amazing set that you're talking about that was not a set, it was old hotel. I was driving to the in a blizzard, ⁓ to the border of that that hotel was like right on the border of John C. Lyons: Never enough. Jill: Canada and and United States, right? So I'm like driving from Vancouver through this blizzard to a hotel that's supposed to be s in Las Vegas, you know? And I'm just like, this is amazing. Like I get there and it's like all these people freezing their they're freezing their asses off literally because they're dressed in bondage gear, because it's supposed to like basically a devil's playground kind of set. And I'm just like, how am I in Vancouver for this? And how do we get here? Like what is a text text criter really that good? Like, you know, it's like John C. Lyons: Okay. Yeah. Jill: It ⁓ it made me learn how tax credits work, how incentives for producers work. Cause I was like, I want to be the person in charge of the money for once, because I'd never been that person in production before. And I was like, I need to understand how we got here and how to make sure that like the money goes on the screen. So yeah, I wanted to know where the money came from. I wanted I wanted more control over my own life and and my projects. And yeah, it made it was a big How am I gonna spend the rest of my life moment for me when the pandemic happened? Because it just like, you know, literally, I achieved my dream of making the stand. But it's like there's billboards in Hollywood. Like that was the one thing that made it seem real because it's like nobody really watched it. But like we weren't even given the proper numbers. Like we we knew it was doing well on CBS All Access and then Paramount Plus, but it was like right when Paramount Plus started, it wasn't Yellowstone time yet, you know? So it's like. John C. Lyons: ⁓ okay. Jill: And what Taylor Sheridan hadn't taken over yet. So it's like nobody really had the network. But meanwhile, we have these giant billboards in Hollywood. And I got the stand in front of the billboard and be like, I did this. And it made me realize if I could get the stand made, because it really it's like nobody knows that I had such an essential part in it, but I do. And it's like, John, when you read the stand as a little kid and you watch Color Purple and you're like, Whoopi Goldberg should be Mother Abigail. John C. Lyons: Yeah. Yep. Jill: You know, and it's like carrying that through in my heart. And it's like I still stood on set with Whoopi Goldberg and she told me her and her mom used to read the stand aloud. They would read Mother Abigail together and she's crying because her mom had passed on. And again, this is like a precious moment in my life where I'm like, I'm like holding Whoopi's hand during the story. You know what I mean? It's like I I was like, I did these things. And I was like, what else can I accomplish? You know, it's like that's so yeah, that's it was yeah. John C. Lyons: Yeah. Yeah, it's incredible. Jill: And again, I've survived some shit. There's other stories with the stand where it's like, wow You know. John C. Lyons: Okay, so is this when you start like I don't wanna say branding, but maybe it's branding. Is this when you start like killvision, jill kill? Like Okay. Jill: No, I'd already been like that. Like I said, it ⁓ like around the loiter squad times I was like I knew horror was gonna be the next big wave. And I was just like, I need people to understand that this is what I do. And I I ⁓ switched my nom de plum ⁓ to my nom diplom Jill Killington. I'd always been called Jill Kill cu just cause like I'm kind of I'm kind of a bitch that you don't fuck with. You know what I mean? And I was just like, why don't I w what but that's the thing, it's like John C. Lyons: ⁓ what? All right. Jill: Jill I was always a very nice person. Like I said, I used to be very, very shy. By having, you know, ⁓ a little bit of a now I'm Jill Kill, I'm I can do anything. It worked, you know. It was like a mental trick. You gotta have your own little Tyler Durden going, you know. John C. Lyons: Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, for sure. Okay. Well, do you wanna talk Jill: But it's like I never really did like the influencer thing. I did a little bit of YouTube about like horror conventions I went to and like interviewing friends and talking about horror movies for a while. But it's like honestly, it was hard to keep that up while also working a full time job like 70 hours a week, like editing and shooting and da-da-da. So it's like I was I was trying to review like a movie like Prometheus and I couldn't make it to go see it that weekend. I'm falling asleep in the theater because I'm like exhausted from shooting. It was just like, okay, that's not for me. There's another path, you know. John C. Lyons: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well yeah. And you're creating your own stuff at the same time. That's a lot. That's a lot of Jill: But yeah, I was in the tuber. I mean, I wasn't it was not entirely my own stuff, but yeah, it was again, you have to choose how many hats you can wear and like what you're enjoying the most. And it's like for me, I'm ⁓ I enjoy the collaboration the most. I enjoy the imagining it very much, but I can do that at home by myself. But it's like I enjoy the collaborative process of shooting and marketing and making. John C. Lyons: Yeah. Yeah, and you've had to learn all of that. We're almost up to that point as far as like teasing ⁓ Mr. and Mrs. Death, which I definitely wanna save save some time. No, that's good. But before we get to that. Jill: Ups, do I am I always ready to talk about Mr. and Mrs. Dead? This is a movie I realized this is again the movie of my dreams. When I wanted to make movies as a kid, I wanted to make movies about like gun-toting bad bitches and like, you know, psychopaths and like shootouts and you know people people throwing cash and you know and that's the kind of movie I finally made, so. John C. Lyons: Yeah. Hell yeah. Do we before we get into teasing that a little bit, which will be so we're gonna record a a series of episodes and this is the first one of course to get some background on you. Jill: By the way, I it's so nice of you to do this because it's like I don't really I've just been in post mode where I'm editing and editing and editing this movie since I shot six months ago. It the fact that you ⁓ were like, hey, I want to do a podcast with you and talk about this. Thank you. Because it's like I it's good practice for me because it's like it's about to be time to start selling this movie and like previewing it for people. And I'm just so fucking excited about this movie. Like I love what we made so much. John C. Lyons: Yeah. Yeah. Me too. Jill: And it's like I said, I wanted to make something. I loved making it. I loved who I'm making it with. And it's like I'm I'm trying to put love out into the world with this movie. So John C. Lyons: Hell yeah. I'm super excited for it. That's why, you know, you were kind of the first first one of us with the group of projects that we you know we were talking about with ⁓ cinema circus that like made it happen. So I definitely wanted wanted to take a deep dive with you. Yeah. Yeah. Jill: Again, you know the strange series of events of how I got financing and everything else. Like it's like it's a non non repeatable phenomenon is like the unfortunate thing about me. It's like I'll be working and and preparing for so long and then like the right opportunity comes and it's just like, Okay, let's go. Like it's like that's that's how my life has been, luckily. But it's like there's always like so much like preparation. So John C. Lyons: Yeah. Which which people don't realize, right? They just think you write a thing and you direct it and it's all magical and Jill: You can, you know, some people some people do it that fast, but it's just like for me, getting cameras, getting time, getting the money, like it used to be very hard to get a camera. Now we're we're on camera right now. People are watching this probably like on something with a camera right next to them, or five or ten cameras right next to them. It's like when I was a kid it was very hard to get a camera and people only believed like your movie was a film if it was shot on film. So it's a different time. John C. Lyons: Yeah. Right. Right. So all right, before ⁓ we call it a day for this episode, the Meet Jill episode, I did want to give you an opportunity to talk about some of your other writing projects that you've worked on, either as an author, or as, you know, you you've dropped Anne Rice's Vampire Chronicles. ⁓ Jill: But I again that right now is a very cool TV show that's actually doing the story right. We did a version that was never made and and that took another two years of my life. But again, it was wonderful because I I was paid to, you know, work on one of my favorite series of books ever again. Again, that was like a wonderful lane I was in at the time. But then because that adaptation went so strangely, because it was supposed supposed to be part of the dark universe for ⁓ Universal, and then it was like, John C. Lyons: Got yeah. ⁓ got it. Jill: Kind of it was like the dark universe like tanked, but it's like anyway, I the version we were doing was was ⁓ was straying from the material in such a faraway way that it was just becoming like almost Fast and Furious vampires, which sounds dope. But this was like maybe not. ⁓ but but my my thing that I've written that I'm super proud of, but again, it's like a bit of an obscurity. I wrote it my own sci-fi. John C. Lyons: Mm-hmm. Wow. Yeah. That hasn't been done. Jill: Fi novel that was ⁓ my attempt to b build a lore for sex robots and androids becoming sentient, the same way Ann Rice ⁓ told the secret stories of what it's like to actually be a vampire. That was ⁓ my book Nymph, which ⁓ again I'm currently in the process of adapting as a series because it's like, you know, again, there's so many ways to make things now. And I shot a live action feature with a couple of of with an amazing cast. John C. Lyons: Awesome. Jill: And then I'm simultaneously working on on my adaptation of Nymph because that's something I can create very quickly now with using AI as well as live action actors. And it's just a brave new world we live in, John. Like there's so many ways to accomplish anything now. It's like all you have to do is is have the guts and the focus to do it, really. John C. Lyons: It is. Absolutely. and the talent and yeah, there's a there's a lot of Jill: I I don't know if I believe in talent, I believe in persistence. John C. Lyons: Well, you have both, miss. ⁓ so ⁓ so I haven't read Nymph yet, but I I told you before we started recording that I want to. I do see it's available on audiobook too. I've never done audiobooks. Which do you do you think I sh Yeah, I d I haven't. Jill: I I do believe in compliments. Really? I mean, if you've never done an audiobook, ⁓ our recording's pretty cool is and but if you prefer a novel, I mean again, you can wait for the series. It's coming soon. I don't know how soon, like probably in the next year or so. John C. Lyons: Okay. Well maybe we can we can talk about that one too once you get a little further down the road. It could be a Jill: ⁓ I'll I'll talk about it all. I'm a I'm a promoter now. Again, I I learned from commercials. You gotta always be ⁓ do it it's always a commercial, always be closing. Always be promoting. No, I I won't it's unlimited. This is an expansive world of of the secret lives of sex robots. This is ⁓ this is intended to be a steamy one. John C. Lyons: Yeah. So is it a limited series or it what what are you thinking? Okay. All right. ⁓ good. Yeah, and very ⁓ well timed, of course, as well, which is good. Okay, so next episode we're gonna bring Jill back to talk about her feature film that as she mentioned, Mr. and Mrs. Death, which ⁓ yeah, I've been along for the ride with Jill of making this one just as a fly on the wall, but yeah, motion. Jill: Mr. and Mrs. Death. Emotionally, yeah. You've been emotionally never, never actually there. I wish you could have come to set because we built our own strip clubs. ⁓ John C. Lyons: But I wanna hear how it went. Yeah. I wanna hear how it went. I wanna like I've seen your actress popping up in everything. I just saw her in Margot on Apple TV. Jill: actors, actress ⁓ Lindsay Normington. ⁓ you might be familiar with her from the movie Enora, a little pomed door Oscar winner. ⁓ And ⁓ yeah, it's ⁓ a little starring her, ⁓ her real life beau ⁓ Ben Peter, amazing actor, ⁓ and of course, ⁓ legendary actor Ray So we'll talk about that. ⁓ But yeah, you see how I am. literally I've become such a huckster that like John C. Lyons: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. ⁓ Jill: In the past year or so to get this movie made, I was always carrying around photos because we did like a key art shoot and like ⁓ a a preview shoot for the movie to help us raise financing and get our crew all ⁓ geared up to and prepped to shoot. And yeah, so I started carrying around these little cards because it's like people be like, What are you up to, Jill? I'd be like, this, this right here. Cool couple, guns, pile of cash, that. John C. Lyons: Mowder great. Yeah. Yeah, it's awesome. It's a sexy badass thriller. It's good it's good stuff. So, all right, we got the this is episode one. We got the tough stuff out of the way, which I I assume the tough stuff's talking about yourself. We'll get into the fun stuff of Mr. and Mrs. Death and how how production went, how development went, how raising funding went. But next episode'll be all Mr. and Mrs. Death. Thanks for being here, Jill. Everybody. Jill: Thank you so much, John. You're amazing. John C. Lyons: Thanks for listening. We'll be back soon. Cheers. I'll put I'll put all that stuff in there. Let me stop recording. Jill: Thank you for listening, JillKill.com. JoeKill.com