Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / Shocking murders live streamed

Transcript

Shocking murders live streamed · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:07
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace on Sirius XM Triumph Channel
0:11
Speaker 1: one two. Do you remember the old old question, if
0:19
Speaker 1: a tree falls in the forest and nobody's around, does
0:24
Speaker 1: it make a noise? Well, of course we know that
0:27
Speaker 1: it does. But that was the theoretical question that you'd
0:31
Speaker 1: be asked in college when you're in your first philosophy class,
0:36
Speaker 1: which you're forced to take, by the way. But now
0:39
Speaker 1: the new question is, if you don't start in your
0:44
Speaker 1: own Facebook video or it doesn't happen on Facebook, did
0:48
Speaker 1: it really ever happen at all? I'm talking about murder,
0:54
Speaker 1: murder live streamed on Facebook, not to us once, but
1:01
Speaker 1: over and over and over again. Why the phenomena of
1:05
Speaker 1: murder live streamed? I'm Nancy Grace, this is Crime Stories.
1:12
Speaker 1: Thank you for being with us. The chicken or the egg?
1:14
Speaker 1: Oh dear. Another philosophical question. Do people murder on live
1:20
Speaker 1: streaming to become famous? Or do they become famous or
1:24
Speaker 1: infamous because they live streamed to murder? That that's that's
1:28
Speaker 1: the big question. But I'm gonna let the shrinks figure
1:32
Speaker 1: all that out while I figure out who's going to
1:36
Speaker 1: jail and why? Joining me right now, Dr Chloe Carmichael,
1:41
Speaker 1: creator of ask dr cc dot com That's asked d
1:46
Speaker 1: r c C dot com awesome, awesome site. Dr Chloe
1:50
Speaker 1: with me forensics expert Joseph Scott Morgan, Professor of Forensics
1:54
Speaker 1: at Jacksonville State University, and Crime Stories investigative reporter John Limley.
2:00
Speaker 1: And we're gonna kick it all off with a case
2:03
Speaker 1: that that just stunned me. The case of an evil,
2:08
Speaker 1: evil Cleveland gunman who randomly shoots dead an elderly man
2:16
Speaker 1: in the street, just drives by and sheets a guy,
2:21
Speaker 1: dad who's shuffling along minding his own business. This guy
2:28
Speaker 1: has a family, he had grandchildren that called him Papa.
2:33
Speaker 1: There's pictures of him. We've managed to dig up his
2:36
Speaker 1: seventy four year old Robert Godwin, and his grandchildren absolutely
2:41
Speaker 1: loved him. He had a favorite easy chair. It reminds
2:45
Speaker 1: me a little bit of the ugly chair in Frasier
2:47
Speaker 1: that the dad said and all the time. But it
2:49
Speaker 1: also reminds me of my father. He had a favorite
2:51
Speaker 1: chair that he would sit in. And this Mr Godwin
2:56
Speaker 1: is reminding me of my dad so much. And Mr
2:59
Speaker 1: god And it's just gunned down dead randomly. And to
3:04
Speaker 1: add insult to injury. The killer live Street posted the
3:11
Speaker 1: video on Facebook. To John Limley, Crime Stories investigative reporter,
3:17
Speaker 1: I don't understand why this Cleveland shooter, who seemed to
3:22
Speaker 1: be a normal guy, Steve Stevens, would gun down a
3:27
Speaker 1: guy on Facebook video and claim he's killed fifty more.
3:30
Speaker 1: Let's start at the beginning, John Limley, what happened, Nancy?
3:35
Speaker 1: This was a really nice day, warm and sonny. So,
3:39
Speaker 1: as you mentioned Robert Godwin, uh, he was out for
3:42
Speaker 1: a stroll in the Glenville neighborhood of Cleveland. Uh. As
3:46
Speaker 1: we've heard, he was a gentleman, graying hair. That day,
3:50
Speaker 1: he was wearing a blue plaid shirt. He was carrying
3:53
Speaker 1: a white plastic bag that he had filled with cans
3:56
Speaker 1: that he had picked up along the way. It's something
3:59
Speaker 1: that he did all most every day since he had
4:01
Speaker 1: retired as a foundry worker. He loved to go along
4:04
Speaker 1: pick things up, maybe even a bicycle or a small appliance,
4:07
Speaker 1: and he'd take them home and repair them. And this
4:10
Speaker 1: had given him an affectionate nickname in the neighborhood, the
4:14
Speaker 1: junk Man. Okay, now wait a minute, wait a minute.
4:16
Speaker 1: This guy had a long career in the foundry business
4:20
Speaker 1: to support his family, his children and even his grandchildren. Then,
4:25
Speaker 1: after many many years toiling, just like my dad did
4:29
Speaker 1: on the railroad, he retires. Now my dad took up
4:34
Speaker 1: He suddenly became a Sunday school teacher, to the shock
4:37
Speaker 1: of all of us, because my dad, as you know,
4:39
Speaker 1: was not afraid of a cocktail. He took becoming a
4:42
Speaker 1: Sunday school teacher and exercising and all things heart healthy.
4:48
Speaker 1: Those were his obsessions, okay, along with sports, watching sports,
4:52
Speaker 1: So that that who was all into all of that.
4:55
Speaker 1: This guy, Mr Godwin decided to go along and start
4:59
Speaker 1: recycling everything he could get his mits on and pick
5:02
Speaker 1: up this and that and you know, refurbish it, make
5:05
Speaker 1: it new again. And he would be walking up and
5:08
Speaker 1: down the street in his neighborhood finding whatever he could,
5:12
Speaker 1: this little low guy with the glasses and the big smile,
5:16
Speaker 1: Mr Godwin. Okay, so he's out, Mr Godwin is out
5:20
Speaker 1: collecting little bikes and this and that pieces of tidbits.
5:23
Speaker 1: And what happens, John Limley, This is around two pm
5:27
Speaker 1: that afternoon, Robert Godwin walking along the sidewalk on East
5:31
Speaker 1: ninety three Street in Cleveland, when a man stops his car,
5:36
Speaker 1: gets out and walks over to Robert. The man had
5:40
Speaker 1: his phone out shooting video of Robert and asked him
5:45
Speaker 1: to say the name of a woman, Joy Lane. The
5:49
Speaker 1: man said, she's the reason why this is about to
5:53
Speaker 1: happen to you. Robert immediately tells the man he doesn't
5:56
Speaker 1: know who he's talking about, has no idea what he's
5:59
Speaker 1: talking about. But the next thing Robert knows, the man
6:03
Speaker 1: pulls out a gun, shoots him, and a split second
6:06
Speaker 1: later Robert falls to the ground dead. John, Wait a minute,
6:10
Speaker 1: I have got to quit thinking about my dad and
6:13
Speaker 1: this happening to my dad because he would walk up
6:17
Speaker 1: all around the neighborhood almost every day as part of
6:22
Speaker 1: his exercise regimen. And I can just imagine this jackass
6:28
Speaker 1: coming up to my father and saying, say the name
6:31
Speaker 1: joy Lane. My dad would say what what? Because the
6:35
Speaker 1: way he would do is exercises, He counted steps, and
6:39
Speaker 1: he had been doing this for years and years before
6:41
Speaker 1: he went to heaven. And I can just see somebody
6:45
Speaker 1: pulling up to Mr Godwin and saying getting out in video,
6:50
Speaker 1: I mean he would be on what. I don't know her,
6:53
Speaker 1: I don't know what you're talking about. As a matter
6:55
Speaker 1: of fact, this guy may he wrought in hell. Steve
7:01
Speaker 1: Stevens has this on video. Listen to what he says,
7:09
Speaker 1: found somebody like a kill kill this guy right here?
7:12
Speaker 1: The old Hi, can you get your favor? Can you
7:25
Speaker 1: say Joey Lane? Can you say Joey Lane Lane? Yeah,
7:30
Speaker 1: she's the reason why this is about to happened to you.
7:33
Speaker 1: How old are you? Look? I don't know, I don't
7:38
Speaker 1: know nobody here because of dy You know, Alan, do
7:49
Speaker 1: you just heard John Linley reporting about this seriously monster
7:55
Speaker 1: coming up to this elderly guy and demand he say
8:00
Speaker 1: the name Joy Lane. Who's the shooters ex girlfriend? I'm
8:04
Speaker 1: sure I think I know why she's an ex, But
8:07
Speaker 1: that wasn't it, Alan Duke. Then this freak gets in
8:11
Speaker 1: his car and starts videoing again. What does he do
8:15
Speaker 1: in the car? Yes, it was just a few moments
8:17
Speaker 1: after he shot this man. He gets in the car,
8:20
Speaker 1: goes again on Facebook and explains to his Facebook friends
8:24
Speaker 1: that I guess I just snapped, and then he calls
8:27
Speaker 1: himself a monster in this rambling snap just snapped. He
8:32
Speaker 1: planned this. He didn't just snapped. He sought out a victim,
8:36
Speaker 1: a defenseless elderly gentleman on the side of the street
8:39
Speaker 1: mining his own business walks up to him and says,
8:42
Speaker 1: this is why she's why this is going to happen
8:46
Speaker 1: to you. This is not a snap. This is a plan.
8:50
Speaker 1: As a matter of fact, Alan Duke has managed to
8:53
Speaker 1: dig up what Steve Stephen says in his car, declaring
8:57
Speaker 1: he quote just snapped, list said, dog, just corn this corn,
9:03
Speaker 1: just cord. Get it. Man, I can't talk to you
9:06
Speaker 1: right now, man, yeah, I did just a couple of Um.
9:16
Speaker 1: I'm at the point where snaps. The thing is, man,
9:18
Speaker 1: every time I try to talk about man, y'all always
9:21
Speaker 1: blow me. You offer or just make my team my name.
9:24
Speaker 1: I got a lot of built in anger and frustration. Man,
9:34
Speaker 1: No here, No, I ain't going over there. Just this
9:36
Speaker 1: this card. Tell me a look at that. Man. You
9:38
Speaker 1: you go from there. But hey, dog, let me call you,
9:43
Speaker 1: Let me call you, Let me call you me. Yeah,
9:45
Speaker 1: it's my name. My name is Stevie, Steve on there,
9:47
Speaker 1: just this go a anybody all on there. Dog. I
9:53
Speaker 1: just want to tell you, dog, I love you. I
9:54
Speaker 1: love you dog, and dog listen, Man, I shamed. I shamed.
9:59
Speaker 1: The four sons perseverance. Man, I shamed for district. A
10:04
Speaker 1: shame as they don't make it. The most importantly, A
10:06
Speaker 1: shamed myself. I snapped. I snapped, dog. I just snapped, dog.
10:11
Speaker 1: I just snapped. I just killed thirteen. Man, That's what
10:17
Speaker 1: I did. I killed thirteen people, and I'm about to
10:19
Speaker 1: keep killing until until until they they ntil they catch me.
10:26
Speaker 1: I posted it. I say, until they catch me. Dog,
10:32
Speaker 1: let me call you right back, because I got a
10:33
Speaker 1: lot of people calling me, but dog, really, all right,
10:40
Speaker 1: you're sorry about that? Man? Listen, man, Um, Like I said,
10:44
Speaker 1: I killed thirteen, so I'm working on fourteen as we speak.
10:46
Speaker 1: I'm just running around hitting my man. I just I
10:49
Speaker 1: just snapped. Man. You know, it's some hope that I
10:54
Speaker 1: would let up or anybody get me on my hook.
10:57
Speaker 1: But see the thing he is, man, I'm thirty seven
10:59
Speaker 1: and my life man, I just always been a monster. Man.
11:03
Speaker 1: I always had to prove myself. You know, I always
11:05
Speaker 1: had to take the butts of people's jokes. And it's like,
11:08
Speaker 1: you know, I'm a case measure for beast boy at
11:11
Speaker 1: my beach. I'm killing my beast book bradge on too.
11:14
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I ain't no better come to work tomorrow,
11:17
Speaker 1: you know. Um but um yeah, I'm just killing man,
11:23
Speaker 1: you know, and uh alla because it's you know, um,
11:29
Speaker 1: she put me in my my my, my pushing point. Man.
11:32
Speaker 1: You know I was living over there with her. This
11:34
Speaker 1: what up Friday? That's gonna take it no more? Man,
11:36
Speaker 1: I just left and um yeah here I am massacreing.
11:41
Speaker 1: Yeah recorded day. The uh today is the Eastern Sunday massacre.
11:47
Speaker 1: But it's though that um oh Edward Warred. My number
11:51
Speaker 1: is uh you could call me or you canna call me,
11:58
Speaker 1: but uh yeah, everybody keep putting this that reel. That's
12:07
Speaker 1: funny and again man like people saying is it real?
12:13
Speaker 1: And nobody thinking me for granted for for for truth
12:16
Speaker 1: and that's a crazy part man, Nobody, I don't know.
12:22
Speaker 1: I'm a I'm gonna send another post in a second.
12:33
Speaker 1: I want to pause and thank our partner making our
12:36
Speaker 1: investigation possible. It's legal Zoom. New Year's is over and
12:43
Speaker 1: now it's time to write your own success story for
12:46
Speaker 1: two thousand eight. Team and legal Zoom can help you
12:50
Speaker 1: with that. Let this be the year you finally launch
12:53
Speaker 1: and run your own business, or rest easier knowing your
12:56
Speaker 1: family's future is secure. By you making the right estate plan.
13:01
Speaker 1: As a matter of fact, legal Zoom has been helping
13:04
Speaker 1: people just like us take care of dreams and responsibilities
13:10
Speaker 1: over sixteen years. The good news is legal Zoom is
13:13
Speaker 1: not a law firm, but they have the resources to
13:16
Speaker 1: put you on the right path, including advice from a
13:19
Speaker 1: nationwide network of independent lawyers at your fingertips. Whether you
13:25
Speaker 1: want to take your business to the next level or
13:28
Speaker 1: take control of your family's future with an estate plan,
13:31
Speaker 1: legal Zoom plugs right into your life without billable hours
13:36
Speaker 1: like a law firm, because at legal Zoom, pricing is
13:40
Speaker 1: up front. What a relief. Start writing your two thousand
13:44
Speaker 1: eighteen success story at legal zoom dot com Now special savings.
13:49
Speaker 1: Enter promo code Nancy in the referral box at check
13:52
Speaker 1: out legal Zoom where life meets legal legal zoom dot Com.
13:56
Speaker 1: A case that that just stunned me the k of
14:00
Speaker 1: an evil gunman who randomly shoots dead an elderly man
14:07
Speaker 1: in the street to Joseph Scott Morgan joining me forensics
14:12
Speaker 1: expert Joe Scott, I always if I could would play
14:16
Speaker 1: the nine one one call for my jury to take
14:20
Speaker 1: them to the moment of the incident. Or as close
14:23
Speaker 1: as I could get to it. What can we typically
14:27
Speaker 1: learn from a nine one one called Joe Scott? Many
14:29
Speaker 1: times you can you can get a sense of of
14:32
Speaker 1: how horrific a particular circumstances because it paints a picture
14:38
Speaker 1: that takes the jury, who is in just this isolated
14:42
Speaker 1: room with a lot of people, and takes them back
14:45
Speaker 1: to that moment of absolute and total horror. And I
14:49
Speaker 1: think that most of the people that get pulled into
14:52
Speaker 1: a court as as a member of a jury pool,
14:54
Speaker 1: they they don't they can't associate with this kind of thing.
14:57
Speaker 1: That horror would actually visit you in this moment that
15:00
Speaker 1: you know, like like this older gentleman here that's just
15:03
Speaker 1: mine in his own business. And the this this drives
15:08
Speaker 1: at home even more because here you actually hear the
15:10
Speaker 1: voice of the perpetrator. It's not just some abstract person
15:15
Speaker 1: going down the road saying I just saw somebody that
15:17
Speaker 1: had been shot in this. In this live streaming event,
15:20
Speaker 1: you've got someone that's actually they're talking about what he's
15:23
Speaker 1: gonna do, perpetrates it and then offers commentary after. And
15:28
Speaker 1: boy is this compelling. Take a listen now to the
15:31
Speaker 1: n on call. Okay, what do you address? Okay, you
15:41
Speaker 1: didn't tell me. I'm someone new? Is it that Cleveland? Okay?
15:47
Speaker 1: And are you right there with him now? No? I
15:49
Speaker 1: don't Okay, Okay, I don't he gonna copy? Okay? Are
15:59
Speaker 1: you able to go out there and see these contents
16:01
Speaker 1: I'm breathing? Please? Um, he's on conscious? I don't. I
16:06
Speaker 1: don't know. He's older sixty seventy ways, I want to
16:12
Speaker 1: say six? Okay, all right? Are you able to are
16:15
Speaker 1: you able to go out there and see if he's conscious?
16:17
Speaker 1: I'm really at all really not my mom My mom
16:21
Speaker 1: is holder and I got my child. Okay, I need
16:24
Speaker 1: to help him until they get there. We do have
16:26
Speaker 1: help out were on the way. But if we can
16:28
Speaker 1: help him until they get there, Sir, if he's shot,
16:30
Speaker 1: where was he shot at? I don't know? Um, I
16:34
Speaker 1: don't know. I'm come. You know, I'm gonna sweep. Okay.
16:36
Speaker 1: Are you able to go out there and see if
16:38
Speaker 1: he's conscious of breaking so we can help him surface
16:40
Speaker 1: that to do so? Um? Yeah? Okay, our users, Okay,
16:46
Speaker 1: I need to fun you guys to go and check
16:48
Speaker 1: and see he's conscious? Are bringing me to help him?
16:51
Speaker 1: We need to help him. Yeah, I'm sorry. I guess
16:56
Speaker 1: I got my son of my ann to walk. Okay,
16:59
Speaker 1: can you sorry? My mom? I got labeled the US
17:03
Speaker 1: coming on my mom. But I need to I need
17:05
Speaker 1: to help them help him. So I need to talk
17:08
Speaker 1: to that out there. What do you say? He said?
17:13
Speaker 1: I got another company pulled up in the in the hero. Okay,
17:17
Speaker 1: he conscious though? Is he a waiting conscious brocause you
17:25
Speaker 1: know conscious? Ask him? Is he breathing? If he's breathing?
17:32
Speaker 1: No breathing? Okay, So we need to help him. We
17:35
Speaker 1: need to get the clean dry cloth or top and
17:36
Speaker 1: apply to where he's leading from. Hello, I can't hear
17:45
Speaker 1: me a white crane card with them from TA. No,
17:49
Speaker 1: I'm telling my pet, sir, the old man. Hello, yeah, okay, listen,
17:57
Speaker 1: are you going to with a patent of that? Sir? Listen?
18:03
Speaker 1: We need to help him. Okay? Where was he shot at? Here? Okay?
18:12
Speaker 1: So is he we need to go gag on from now? Okay,
18:15
Speaker 1: I need you guys to get something clean and dry
18:17
Speaker 1: and apply it to his head where he's bleeding from
18:19
Speaker 1: applied firm said the pressure. Can't do that now, please,
18:24
Speaker 1: I got frown right, Okay, we'll start getting somebody off
18:27
Speaker 1: the phone that's over there. Next then yeah, can take
18:31
Speaker 1: the phone where the patient is at. Oh man, I'm sorry,
18:35
Speaker 1: but alright over here, okay, so you see hello, he's
18:40
Speaker 1: like he's all around like, Okay, listen to what I'm
18:43
Speaker 1: trying to say. I understand what I'm saying this well,
18:46
Speaker 1: but I need you to guy to get something clean
18:47
Speaker 1: and dry and apply to where he's bleeding from doing now,
18:50
Speaker 1: and we need to lay him flat on his back
18:52
Speaker 1: so we can't open up his their way do it now?
18:56
Speaker 1: Oh okay, okay, we got something anything clean and drying
19:01
Speaker 1: on to taller today, I'm on the back. I need
19:04
Speaker 1: a caller thing. I'm gonna tell you I got calling baby.
19:09
Speaker 1: Anything you don't need to do, you have to take
19:10
Speaker 1: care of it. Then turn you out of pool. Don't
19:13
Speaker 1: tell you you hello, yeah for okay, laying bounding back
19:22
Speaker 1: lead you're here. He's on the toll right, don't wait
19:24
Speaker 1: for the call. Okay. So if he breathing at all,
19:27
Speaker 1: I know he's not gonna come around right here, okay,
19:29
Speaker 1: right here, so little we need to we need to
19:31
Speaker 1: lamb down, flat down on the black okay, okay, and
19:37
Speaker 1: I want you to hello. Yeah. So I don't come
19:40
Speaker 1: with my truth that I'm gon Tigre. Okay, sir, I
19:42
Speaker 1: thought you was near the patient, Yes I was, but
19:45
Speaker 1: my turk down street. Okay, So what's so? What is it?
19:50
Speaker 1: This is the fire truck right next to him. I'm
19:53
Speaker 1: gonna know, all right, thank you. You just heard the
19:56
Speaker 1: nine one one call about the shooting death of seventy
19:59
Speaker 1: four year old Robert Godwin. I'm looking at a photo
20:02
Speaker 1: of him right now and a grown lady. I can't
20:06
Speaker 1: really make her out, but she's much younger than him,
20:09
Speaker 1: has her arm around him. I bet it's with his daughter.
20:13
Speaker 1: Bet you anything. Oh, I give everything of God right
20:17
Speaker 1: now if I could just hug my dad one more time.
20:20
Speaker 1: I'm telling you, but this guy, Steve Stevens, this evil
20:25
Speaker 1: Cleveland shooter, took that opportunity away from Mr Godwin's children
20:31
Speaker 1: and grandchildren. And this to Dr Chloe Carmichael, renowned New
20:35
Speaker 1: York psychologist and creator of ask dr c c dot
20:41
Speaker 1: com for Dr Chloe Carmichael, you know he claims a
20:45
Speaker 1: shooter claims on Facebook that he's killed fifteen people. Now,
20:50
Speaker 1: if that's true, you're a monster, And if it's not true,
20:54
Speaker 1: you're still a monster. We also learned Dr Chloe that
20:58
Speaker 1: he worked as a mental health manager and would post
21:03
Speaker 1: excessively on social media, and on social media he blamed
21:09
Speaker 1: the murderer on a woman to believe we think was
21:12
Speaker 1: his ex girlfriend Joy. It's it's really insane either way,
21:16
Speaker 1: as you're saying, whether he actually did kill fifteen people
21:20
Speaker 1: or whether he just wants to say that. Um, when
21:23
Speaker 1: someone's face rejection like this person has, it sounds like
21:27
Speaker 1: his girlfriend had broken up with him or something like that,
21:30
Speaker 1: they tend to feel very, very powerless, And it's it's
21:33
Speaker 1: actually natural that when we experience rejection, many people actually
21:38
Speaker 1: do become a little bit vindictive or be in a
21:40
Speaker 1: bad mood. But obviously this person has taken it up
21:43
Speaker 1: to a huge extreme. And it also appears that he
21:46
Speaker 1: might be trying to make her feel the pain that
21:51
Speaker 1: he has felt by somehow trying to suggest that this
21:54
Speaker 1: is her fault. So in a sense, he felt annihilated
21:58
Speaker 1: and murdered in an away by her breaking up with him.
22:02
Speaker 1: It's like she destroyed him, and now it seems like
22:05
Speaker 1: maybe this is his really sick way of trying to
22:08
Speaker 1: show her what that feels like. That's Dr Chloe Carmichael,
22:12
Speaker 1: New York psychologists joining us back to Joseph Scott, Morgan
22:16
Speaker 1: forensics expert. Take a look at the timeline Joe Scott
22:19
Speaker 1: at eleven o nine, he first threatens to murder eleven eleven.
22:25
Speaker 1: Two minutes later, the video of the live shooting is
22:29
Speaker 1: uploaded in just two minutes even two a live confession.
22:38
Speaker 1: The end of the live video all done, Nancy, And
22:41
Speaker 1: you know this guy's life these seventy plus years, is
22:46
Speaker 1: this guy lived on this earth. Are just completely gone
22:49
Speaker 1: and and vanished in a second. And it didn't take much,
22:53
Speaker 1: did it, except for uh, for this monster with firearm
22:58
Speaker 1: to go in random He picked this guy out and
23:02
Speaker 1: kill him for whatever his motivations. And at this point
23:04
Speaker 1: in tom uh, you know, as as a you know,
23:07
Speaker 1: as as an average guy, I don't I don't care
23:10
Speaker 1: what his motivations were. I care about this this victims
23:13
Speaker 1: family though, and how how horrible is this um? You know,
23:18
Speaker 1: teaching at college with investigations like I do at Jacksonville State,
23:23
Speaker 1: one of the things that we talked about with homicide
23:25
Speaker 1: is that the launch here of homicides are not like
23:28
Speaker 1: you see on television where it's some kind of randomized stranger.
23:32
Speaker 1: It's going to be an intimate and we've talked about
23:33
Speaker 1: this a lot. That's what makes this all the more horrific,
23:37
Speaker 1: doesn't it needs that. You just got this guy that
23:40
Speaker 1: just appears out of nowhere in this elderly man's life
23:44
Speaker 1: and just snuffs it out in a second, and it's
23:46
Speaker 1: all there for everybody to see. You know, it's really
23:50
Speaker 1: interesting if you look at him online Dr Chloe Carmichael,
23:53
Speaker 1: which is what he wants us all to do. Anyway.
23:56
Speaker 1: You see shots titled joy Lane and Me in New
24:00
Speaker 1: Orleans and he's got on Marty Graw beads and there
24:04
Speaker 1: obviously at some fancy restaurant with like a jungle in
24:08
Speaker 1: the background and strings of lights. Looks really fun. They're smiling,
24:15
Speaker 1: and then you see another picture of him smiling, and
24:19
Speaker 1: then suddenly it goes to him with um um hat
24:25
Speaker 1: pulled down way down and dark clothing and he's looking
24:32
Speaker 1: really angry and menacing towards the camera, really solemn face.
24:38
Speaker 1: That was one of the police issued photos. Then he
24:43
Speaker 1: goes on the run. He's tracked through his phone. Dr
24:47
Speaker 1: Chloe Carmichael. He's living his life out online, Yes he is.
24:53
Speaker 1: And again when somebody has rejected uh, sometimes they can
24:57
Speaker 1: actually feel as if as if they're they're going to disappear.
25:01
Speaker 1: We call it annihilation anxiety in psychology. And I think
25:05
Speaker 1: it's possible that part of his his reason for wanting
25:09
Speaker 1: to do all of this online um is to to
25:13
Speaker 1: try to make his presence known and make his presence felt. Um.
25:17
Speaker 1: He's he's clearly seeking attention. So when somebody breaks up
25:22
Speaker 1: with you, they're withdrawing their attention, and so it's almost
25:25
Speaker 1: as if he's trying to undo that by getting the
25:28
Speaker 1: eyes of the world upon him as he lives out.
25:31
Speaker 1: You know this nightmare you know just got Morgan. You
25:35
Speaker 1: have a young team at home, Mine aren't. Tan. We
25:39
Speaker 1: just went to an evening movie that our church put
25:43
Speaker 1: on called screen Agers, about the effect that online video
25:48
Speaker 1: games um social media, how it affects girls versus boys,
25:56
Speaker 1: and what effect it does have on them. It was
25:59
Speaker 1: incre edible. It was a documentary but also very entertaining.
26:04
Speaker 1: But I'm thinking about how even in those seemingly more
26:09
Speaker 1: innocent contexts, it takes over their lives. They're addicted to it.
26:17
Speaker 1: You know, I'm really watching my son right now, because
26:19
Speaker 1: when I say Okay, time's up for whatever he's playing.
26:22
Speaker 1: He gets actually angry. He's just ten. He's never heard
26:26
Speaker 1: of flee. Uh. And he doesn't want me to tell
26:29
Speaker 1: he doesn't want to turn it off. He gets upset.
26:32
Speaker 1: It's just like they said in that documentary screen Agers
26:36
Speaker 1: and the Girls. My daughter does. Neither one of them
26:39
Speaker 1: have an iPhone or in anything like that. But in
26:44
Speaker 1: the movie The Young Girls, it's all about what they
26:47
Speaker 1: look like. And they're they're nine and ten and they're
26:53
Speaker 1: posting I guess you'd say, what they believed to be
26:56
Speaker 1: sexy pictures of themselves. They are nine, there's nothing sexy,
27:01
Speaker 1: but it kind of They're they're living through this little screen.
27:07
Speaker 1: And for years I've laughed at people like, we'll walk
27:09
Speaker 1: by and there'll be four people sitting together and they're
27:12
Speaker 1: all just glued to their iPhone. It is so funny
27:15
Speaker 1: to me, But it's real, just just scot Yeah, it
27:20
Speaker 1: is real. And if I could just give you a
27:23
Speaker 1: quick analogy, uh, and the struggle is really really with
27:26
Speaker 1: a teenager. Um. When I first started teaching college, you know,
27:31
Speaker 1: in excess of a decade ago, and you probably remember this, Nancy,
27:34
Speaker 1: remember how at the end of class. Most classes let
27:36
Speaker 1: out at the same time. You'd walk out in the
27:38
Speaker 1: hallway and you'd hear this this audible buzz amongst students
27:43
Speaker 1: that were talking. You could hear things scratching around, you know.
27:46
Speaker 1: And now a decade later, when you walk into the
27:50
Speaker 1: hallway at a university, it's almost like you've walked into
27:54
Speaker 1: a Trappist monastery. It is dead quiet, is dead quiet.
27:59
Speaker 1: You don't hear people talking, you don't hear people interacting
28:02
Speaker 1: other than with this electronic device. And it's it's a
28:06
Speaker 1: it's a generational paragamic shift, as they say in academia.
28:11
Speaker 1: Everything has changed. Um. When I first started teaching the students,
28:16
Speaker 1: they would I would put these images on the screen
28:19
Speaker 1: about all these horrible cases that that I had worked
28:23
Speaker 1: over the years to illustrate my points relative to forensics,
28:27
Speaker 1: and there were audible gas in class. You know, those
28:30
Speaker 1: are completely vanished now, Nancy, Uh, this generation that that
28:34
Speaker 1: that I deal with, it's almost this and Dr Chloe
28:36
Speaker 1: can speak more to this, but it's this the sensitization
28:39
Speaker 1: that's taken place for me and I work in probably
28:43
Speaker 1: with some must graphic gory things that you can possibly imagine.
28:47
Speaker 1: And now it's the world has changed so much, um
28:52
Speaker 1: and I really this That's why this particular case particularly
28:57
Speaker 1: frightens me because it is it's just a total dismission
29:03
Speaker 1: or dismissive of of of human life. It just it's
29:06
Speaker 1: reduced it down to this such horror. I know that
29:09
Speaker 1: a lot of times people don't identify with an elderly
29:12
Speaker 1: victim as much as they would like a younger victim psay,
29:17
Speaker 1: college age or somebody. Most listeners or viewers can relate
29:21
Speaker 1: to their age. But I really identify with this elderly
29:26
Speaker 1: victim because he reminds me so much of my dad,
29:31
Speaker 1: and I'm projecting my dad's reaction onto him. And you know,
29:36
Speaker 1: Joe Scott, it's one thing to lose a loved one.
29:39
Speaker 1: It's another thing to lose somebody you love to violence,
29:43
Speaker 1: which is always senseless. And I know that firsthand from
29:47
Speaker 1: losing my fiance to murder, then later my dad to illness.
29:54
Speaker 1: And what this family is going through to me is
29:58
Speaker 1: a brutal I under also about Dr Chloe Carmichael uh,
30:03
Speaker 1: creator of ask dr cc dot com. Dr Chloe. Why
30:08
Speaker 1: does he a want to live it out online but
30:11
Speaker 1: be want to blame his ex Joy, Why is it
30:15
Speaker 1: her fault that he is committing murder and maybe fifteen others? Well, Nancy,
30:19
Speaker 1: obviously it's not her fault, of course, but in his mind,
30:23
Speaker 1: his really demented, sick mind, it is her fault because
30:27
Speaker 1: she's the person who hurt him, and so therefore he
30:31
Speaker 1: needs to show her how badly he's hurting, and that's
30:35
Speaker 1: why he appears that that's why he's doing this according
30:38
Speaker 1: to himself. So, um, it is true that we have
30:41
Speaker 1: this deep personalization of human life that happens us often
30:46
Speaker 1: more and more these days as people are on social media.
30:48
Speaker 1: So it used to be, for example, an expression, oh
30:51
Speaker 1: I feel like I'm dying. Oh I I feel like
30:54
Speaker 1: I could just you know, ring somebody's neck. Today, well
30:57
Speaker 1: now people are actually ariancing doing that online and there's
31:03
Speaker 1: a deep personalization of human life. Um, And it really
31:08
Speaker 1: does happen more and more because we see things on screen,
31:11
Speaker 1: we see murders, we see things on TV with a
31:14
Speaker 1: frequency that has never been experienced before, and there's actually
31:19
Speaker 1: a detachment of the consequences and of the human life.
31:23
Speaker 1: So now again, what somebody used to just do is say, well,
31:26
Speaker 1: I feel like to Chloe dor Chloe, dumb me down.
31:29
Speaker 1: For me, you're losing me, Okay, absolutely, So, just like
31:33
Speaker 1: you're saying, Nancy, is that he's got this rage and
31:35
Speaker 1: he used to just want people used to just say, well,
31:38
Speaker 1: I feel like I could ring somebody's neck, And now
31:41
Speaker 1: they're actually doing it because they've seen it on screen
31:44
Speaker 1: a thousand times by the time people are ten years old,
31:47
Speaker 1: they're seeing it on television, and now they're seeing it
31:50
Speaker 1: on social media, and there's just a lack of understanding
31:53
Speaker 1: about the actual human life behind it now like there
31:57
Speaker 1: used to be before. Well, one thing I know too,
32:00
Speaker 1: Joe Scott, Joe, I when I would prosecute and even
32:05
Speaker 1: now I do look for somebody to blame. I do.
32:09
Speaker 1: I want to know who caused this bad thing and
32:12
Speaker 1: really how I can stop it from happening again. So
32:17
Speaker 1: you've seen so many crimes as of all of us.
32:21
Speaker 1: I guess he's looking for somebody to blame. So he
32:24
Speaker 1: blames his ex that broke up with him. Yeah, you know,
32:27
Speaker 1: And and the rationale always escapes you. I mean, how
32:30
Speaker 1: many times if you and I sat that crime scenes
32:33
Speaker 1: are in court and you're sitting there and you're completely
32:35
Speaker 1: befuddled and you're scratching your head and saying, why did
32:38
Speaker 1: why did this waste have to take place? I mean,
32:40
Speaker 1: what what is it that you were so absent of
32:43
Speaker 1: in your life that you had to go out and
32:46
Speaker 1: lash out at at these at these innocent people. I was,
32:50
Speaker 1: you know, I was working at the Medical Examiner's office
32:52
Speaker 1: in Atlanta when we had the television on and uh
32:56
Speaker 1: in the Oklahoma City bombing took place. And I had
33:00
Speaker 1: a lot of friends that deployed out there and worked
33:03
Speaker 1: on that case. And and that was one of the
33:05
Speaker 1: things that that consistently came up over and over and
33:09
Speaker 1: over again. They when those friends mine that were out
33:11
Speaker 1: there that bore witness to this thing, they're thinking why, why,
33:15
Speaker 1: why did this have to happen? The stories that they
33:17
Speaker 1: would tell about those kids being killed in that nursery
33:20
Speaker 1: up there when that bomb went off. And you know,
33:22
Speaker 1: and you sit there as practitioner, and you wonder day
33:25
Speaker 1: after day, and if you if you wonder, and this
33:28
Speaker 1: is another you know, this is a dangerous thing for
33:30
Speaker 1: us all to do. They're involved in this practice. You
33:33
Speaker 1: get to the point where you get worn out with
33:35
Speaker 1: why and you have to revert back to how you know,
33:38
Speaker 1: how did it happen? And that helps you a little
33:40
Speaker 1: bit better, just the science of it. But you go
33:44
Speaker 1: crazy just wondering about why because there there is no
33:47
Speaker 1: answer to this. And speaking of the ex girlfriend who
33:50
Speaker 1: was with him, I believe about three years this joy Lane.
33:54
Speaker 1: Here is what she had to say to Local Fox eight.
33:58
Speaker 1: Listen of the hashtags joy Lane, joy Lane, massacre. I
34:01
Speaker 1: don't know if I know how to be joy Lane anymore.
34:04
Speaker 1: I don't know, um how to pick up all the
34:06
Speaker 1: pieces of my world at the moment. I did try
34:09
Speaker 1: to call him for people who were asking me like
34:11
Speaker 1: call him, call him. I did um call him. He
34:14
Speaker 1: didn't answer. The last time I talked to him with
34:17
Speaker 1: Saturday night, around nine o'clock, we talked and he told
34:20
Speaker 1: me he had quit his job and he was leaving
34:23
Speaker 1: the state. I've got a lot of negative comments. I've
34:27
Speaker 1: been called almost every cussword in the book. I've been
34:30
Speaker 1: told that, um, I'm the one who should have died,
34:32
Speaker 1: he should have killed me. But Lane says she has
34:35
Speaker 1: also had a lot of support from family, friends and strangers,
34:40
Speaker 1: including the family of Robert Godwin Sr. They met for
34:45
Speaker 1: the first time Tuesday. I hug you tell you not
34:51
Speaker 1: your fault. We love you, thank you. It is really
34:55
Speaker 1: wanted to send. Lincoln Bonan says, and I'm very sorry
34:57
Speaker 1: to talk to you guys. Sorry you not your fault.
35:02
Speaker 1: Hard because I I feel, I feel bad. I feel
35:06
Speaker 1: you know, the last thing that he would have said
35:08
Speaker 1: was my name and didn't know me or why he
35:10
Speaker 1: was saying it. And that's been difficult. Our father was
35:14
Speaker 1: our rock and snatched from us. And we don't hold
35:19
Speaker 1: any ill foolings towards you, not even towards Steve. Um.
35:24
Speaker 1: I'm angry with him, yes, but I forgive him Alan.
35:28
Speaker 1: Let's go now to the police presser. A little bit
35:31
Speaker 1: after eleven today, UH Pennsylvania State Police officers received a
35:36
Speaker 1: tip that the vehicle that we were looking for, the
35:39
Speaker 1: white Ford Fusion, was in a McDonald's parking lot UH
35:43
Speaker 1: near Erie p A. Those officers responded, the vehicle fled
35:49
Speaker 1: from that area. There was a short pursuit in which
35:51
Speaker 1: the vehicle was stopped. As the officers approached that vehicle,
35:55
Speaker 1: Steve Stevens took his own life injury. That is a
36:00
Speaker 1: bad thing. Um. I don't I wouldn't say a higher
36:04
Speaker 1: level of alert, but we did have people actually on
36:07
Speaker 1: the ground in that area on several occasions, looking at
36:10
Speaker 1: not only the surrounding area, but that immediate area for
36:13
Speaker 1: the pain. No, not accluding police presidence, but our our
36:20
Speaker 1: federal partners were engaged in that area. I'm at the
36:23
Speaker 1: point watching Nat. We would like to have brought Steven
36:27
Speaker 1: peacefully and really talked to him to find out exactly
36:30
Speaker 1: why this happened, because there may be other people out
36:33
Speaker 1: there that are in similar situations that we can help
36:37
Speaker 1: um by finding out why he did what he did
36:40
Speaker 1: and what kind of drove him to this. And now
36:44
Speaker 1: we head to Chicago with the same question, if it
36:47
Speaker 1: doesn't happen on Facebook live, doesn't happen at all, because
36:51
Speaker 1: in yet another jurisdiction, Chicago, a two year old tat
36:56
Speaker 1: boy shot dead on Facebook Live and it's being videoed.
37:03
Speaker 1: I don't get it. Lavon White, just two years old,
37:07
Speaker 1: dies after a shooting in Chicago. You know, Joseph Scott Morgan.
37:14
Speaker 1: This case is so upsetting. The Ant was riding in
37:19
Speaker 1: a car along with the Todd and the ants twenty
37:23
Speaker 1: six year old boyfriend in the in Braun daylight. A
37:27
Speaker 1: gunman cuts them off, gets oute of the car and
37:31
Speaker 1: opens fire on their vehicle and it's all caught on
37:36
Speaker 1: Facebook Live. Listen to the video recommon we God spaks
38:12
Speaker 1: that I think thank you all right, right, hey we
38:27
Speaker 1: good red No, No, I don't cool man, and that
38:38
Speaker 1: I signed out, Oh my god in a bad and
38:45
Speaker 1: a bad I'm not going please please, I can't agree.
38:57
Speaker 1: I can't believe it. The video starts with the music
39:01
Speaker 1: and the car and they're just riding along at sunny outside.
39:05
Speaker 1: About three minutes in, the sing along turns deadly when
39:10
Speaker 1: you hear shots ringing out. The woman jumps out of
39:15
Speaker 1: the car, scrambles out. Really, she's not jumping, she can't.
39:19
Speaker 1: She runs out and starts begging for people to let
39:23
Speaker 1: her into their home. And she's screaming called nine one one.
39:25
Speaker 1: They killed him. I've got a bullet in my stomach.
39:28
Speaker 1: I mean, they're minding their own business. Joseph's got Morgan.
39:33
Speaker 1: The reality as while all this is happening, the two
39:36
Speaker 1: year old Todd is bleeding out, dying. Yeah, these things
39:39
Speaker 1: don't don't happen in a vacuum, Nancy. One moment, they're
39:43
Speaker 1: just traveling down the road, minding their own their lives, streaming,
39:46
Speaker 1: which a lot of people do now anyway, innocently listening
39:50
Speaker 1: to music and the world just shatters and blows apart
39:53
Speaker 1: with with gunfire. Uh. This is not a clean event.
39:57
Speaker 1: It's not what people think that it is. This is
40:00
Speaker 1: the frenetic nature of of of of a shooting. Uh.
40:04
Speaker 1: Just and it's it's beyond the pale. This this little
40:08
Speaker 1: two year old kid is literally bleeding out in that vehicle.
40:13
Speaker 1: This woman running away in in horror, trying to find
40:17
Speaker 1: somebody that will help her and show mercy to her
40:20
Speaker 1: horrible set of circumstances, knees, and she's four months pregnant
40:24
Speaker 1: and is shot in the stomach. To Dr Chloe Carmichael,
40:28
Speaker 1: New York psychologist, creator of Aska dr cc dot com,
40:32
Speaker 1: I'm looking right now at a happy second birthday card. Uh,
40:39
Speaker 1: this sweet little boy Lavan, and he's all dressed in
40:43
Speaker 1: blue with royal blue tennis shoes and blue jeans and
40:48
Speaker 1: a blue shirt and so well taken care of with
40:53
Speaker 1: a big smile. He was loved so much, and it's
40:58
Speaker 1: just over just like that. To Chloe, it's really hard
41:01
Speaker 1: for me to get my mind around it then to
41:03
Speaker 1: know it was it was posted. The murder was posted online.
41:09
Speaker 1: Nancy it is. It's hard to even fathom, you know
41:12
Speaker 1: that the idea that this would be happening, and you
41:15
Speaker 1: know why people would be viewing this type of material. Um.
41:19
Speaker 1: You know, one thought is that it might be kind
41:22
Speaker 1: of a misguided attempt um at at trying to um
41:28
Speaker 1: bear witness to this. You know, people don't want to
41:30
Speaker 1: just turn away from something like this, and so um
41:34
Speaker 1: you know, if it's there, sometimes people feel just compelled
41:39
Speaker 1: to watch it. Um. But what I think is really
41:43
Speaker 1: frightening is the idea that on a certain level, it's
41:46
Speaker 1: almost normalizing this type of thing, which is which is
41:50
Speaker 1: terrible in terms of our society. And now we go
41:53
Speaker 1: to suburban Carpentersville where a Facebook live a so called
42:00
Speaker 1: ace book live torture case occurs. To John Linley cry Stories,
42:06
Speaker 1: investigative reporter, what happened. An eighteen year old victim dropped
42:10
Speaker 1: off at a McDonald's in suburban uh Stream, would Illinois
42:15
Speaker 1: by his parents. The victim knew one of the suspects
42:18
Speaker 1: before the incident occurred, as the two had attended the
42:22
Speaker 1: same high school and the victim had mistakenly thought that
42:26
Speaker 1: the two were friends. When the victim went to the McDonald's.
42:30
Speaker 1: He had the intention of spending time with this friend.
42:34
Speaker 1: The victim's parents filed a report that he was missing.
42:38
Speaker 1: This is what we know. In the suburban area of Carpentersville.
42:41
Speaker 1: Four people now accused of a four plus our attack
42:48
Speaker 1: on an eighteen year old who had mental illness. And
42:55
Speaker 1: what's so ironic about it is this mentally illan had
43:01
Speaker 1: been friends with one of his tormentors before, police say,
43:04
Speaker 1: a quote play fight happened. So the four come upon
43:09
Speaker 1: this guy with a lot of different mental illnesses, and
43:16
Speaker 1: they get him, and they take him and begin torturing him.
43:23
Speaker 1: To Joe Scott Morgan, forensics expert, when I say torture him,
43:28
Speaker 1: they were beating him over four hours, putting his head
43:33
Speaker 1: down a filthy toilet into it, and they were live
43:37
Speaker 1: streaming the whole thing on Facebook, live streaming it. Despicable
43:44
Speaker 1: torture case. It all started with two friends quote hanging out.
43:50
Speaker 1: What went wrong? Joe Scott? What do you know? A
43:52
Speaker 1: guy and disabled many ill teen ends up blooded and beaten,
44:00
Speaker 1: ending up wearing nothing but an inside out tank top,
44:04
Speaker 1: uh sandals and shorts freezing. What what happened? How did
44:11
Speaker 1: it go so wrong? Joe Scott. Let's use the word
44:15
Speaker 1: lured here, Nancy, Uh, and this goes to specific intent.
44:19
Speaker 1: They this group of people, one who knew this poor
44:25
Speaker 1: mentally disabled man from school, lured him into this situation
44:30
Speaker 1: and it was all for their sadistic their sadistic uh
44:35
Speaker 1: torture of this guy. Took him in to this place.
44:40
Speaker 1: There were four of them, held his head in a
44:43
Speaker 1: toilet while railing on him with racial epithets, made him
44:50
Speaker 1: drink from the toilet, punched him, kicked him, slapped him,
44:54
Speaker 1: and and then, Nancy, I think one of the most
44:56
Speaker 1: humiliating things that they did to this guy is they
45:00
Speaker 1: actually began to cut his hair off, which left left
45:06
Speaker 1: cuts in his scalp. Just the ultimate and the demeaning
45:10
Speaker 1: of a fellow human being. They live's treatment on Facebook,
45:14
Speaker 1: showing the mentally ill teen boy with his hands tied,
45:18
Speaker 1: his mouth covered and gagged. People are cutting his clothes
45:23
Speaker 1: off while they are laughing. In the videos, somebody takes
45:27
Speaker 1: a knife to his head and cuts his scalp, leaving
45:30
Speaker 1: him bleeding. They're laughing and shouting and joking and slapping
45:35
Speaker 1: him in the face, putting cigarette ashes on his bleeding wounds,
45:41
Speaker 1: forcing his head down in a filthy toilet and making
45:44
Speaker 1: him drink from it, all posted live stream. Listen, why
45:54
Speaker 1: are you doing, dam why are you doing? Oh? My brother?
46:25
Speaker 1: Huh you speaking y'all in the trump It all started
46:35
Speaker 1: when they mentally ill victims parents dropped him as they
46:39
Speaker 1: did often at a local McDonald's. Okay, that that's how
46:43
Speaker 1: the whole thing happened, and he ended up being stuffed
46:47
Speaker 1: in a van and driven driven around the neighborhood two
46:52
Speaker 1: days the kids reported missing. It just gets worse and
46:58
Speaker 1: worse and worse. But it all lived on Facebook Live
47:03
Speaker 1: and has been watched over and over and over as
47:07
Speaker 1: police try to put the pieces of the puzzle together.
47:11
Speaker 1: Let me be very clear, the actions in that video
47:17
Speaker 1: are reprehensible that, along with racism, have absolutely no place
47:23
Speaker 1: in the city of Chicago or anywhere else for that matter,
47:27
Speaker 1: against anyone, regardless of their race, gender, state of mental health,
47:34
Speaker 1: or any other identifying factor. I'm pleased to announce that
47:38
Speaker 1: the investigation has concluded and charges have been approved by
47:41
Speaker 1: the Cook County States Attorney for hate crimes, aggravated kidnapping,
47:48
Speaker 1: aggravated unlawful restraint, an aggravated battery with a deadly weapon
47:54
Speaker 1: against all four of the offenders and customs take a
47:57
Speaker 1: listen to this. We're so grateful for all of prayers
48:00
Speaker 1: and efforts that led to the safer term of our brother.
48:03
Speaker 1: We're fully aware of the charges being brought against the
48:06
Speaker 1: offenders at this time. We asked for continued prayers for
48:12
Speaker 1: all those involved and for our families privacy as we
48:15
Speaker 1: cope and heal. We appreciate all the support from everyone. Um,
48:22
Speaker 1: we haven't spoken anyone really but each other, but we've
48:25
Speaker 1: read what's uh, what's out there, and we really appreciate it.
48:30
Speaker 1: We're overwhelmed and surprised. Um, we're happy that everyone's concerned. Yeah,
48:37
Speaker 1: this should never happen. It's happening. It's the new world order,
48:42
Speaker 1: the world of technology, life playing out on Facebook Live
48:48
Speaker 1: and Periscope and snapchat. It's all happening. Now, what are
48:53
Speaker 1: we going to do about it? Nancy Grace Crime Stories
48:59
Speaker 1: signing off, Goodbye friend,