Latest / A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast / Talks to Dan Pinn about his choice of Paradise Towers (4/4)

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Talks to Dan Pinn about his choice of Paradise Towers (4/4) · A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast

0:23
None. Hamster with a blunt.
0:34
Pen knife for doing quicker, quicker, quicker.
0:39
Quicker Hello and welcome back to the Doctor Who Commentary
0:44
podcast. We are a hamster with a blunt
0:47
pen knife and I'm Dan, my Co host tonight is is Joe and we
0:54
are discussing episode 4 of Paradise Towers.
0:58
Build high for happiness. Ice hot.
1:01
Are you a cowardly cutlet? I wasn't expecting you to pause.
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I'd like to think I'm not, but I probably AM.
1:14
I think you're ice hot. Oh, man, I love the dialogue of
1:19
this. I'll do.
1:21
Do you know, I remember watching.
1:23
Sorry, I remember seeing online the Doctor Who Magazine poll,
1:27
you know, where you put like a score behind every single story.
1:31
Yeah. And the editor at the time.
1:34
Nor the editor who's doing it now, who may I say appears on
1:38
every fucking. But I mean, what a vanity
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project Doctor Who Magazine is now.
1:42
There's I've never seen this before, but there's there's a
1:46
there's a Doctor Who event in Derby in the summer.
1:52
And please don't tell me, please, please don't tell me
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what I feel you're going to say. One of the guests is the current
1:57
editor of Doctor Who. Wow, did you see that thing of
2:02
him on his toilet advertising the latest issue?
2:05
No, he tweeted out a video of himself on the loo through the
2:10
magazine going, oh, the latest issue of Doctor Who Magazine.
2:14
Not enough pictures of me, but we have this and that and I
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thought, don't hang a Lantern on the fact that you are on a mad
2:22
egocentric trip. Oh, what a man.
2:26
Jeez. Anyway, sorry, that wasn't the
2:27
point. What was I was trying to say?
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Oh yeah. Anyway, the editor of the
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magazine at the time hosted a picture in the in the magazine
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of his scores for Paradise Towers and he said, and I'm only
2:41
doing this because I wanted everyone to know I'm giving
2:43
Paradise Towers 10 out of 10 because it's the best Doctor Who
2:46
story ever. So I do think this story has
2:49
it's champions. Yes, yeah, I know because
2:53
because that's the thing. Like I suppose my my my first
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small group of of of Doctor Who friends on Twitter was was Luke
3:03
Luke Monroy and the and the and the sort of the the regular
3:07
contributors to to that podcast and I know so it's a group of
3:13
like four or five of us and and I would say there's there's at
3:18
least four of us that love paradise towers.
3:21
Yeah. And I think you're right when
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you said earlier that the tides turning as well.
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And I think with the advent of the Blu-ray that came out ever
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so excited when those Blu rays come out, that even when a
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derided season like this came out, they were like, Oh my God,
3:34
you know, I've got to post my picture of the blue ray arriving
3:38
just to make everyone else jealous that they haven't got
3:39
theirs. Yeah, I'm calling that out as
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well. That's absolutely.
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Do you do it? I used to, but I don't anymore
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because I I can see that, yeah, that that it.
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It's not me. I'm not that kind of person to
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go. I don't feel you are.
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But I kind of just got carried away on that Crest of a wave.
4:02
Everyone else is doing it, so I should do.
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It it's the latest fad. Yeah, now I just scroll and I go
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if I've seen one more fucking picture of that Blu-ray set.
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Yeah, even though mine's already arrived, I'm like, I don't need
4:13
to know that you've got some post.
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Jesus, you don't put our pictures of your tax returns, do
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you? Was that making a point?
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Oh, we've just ranted about things.
4:31
Oh, yeah. Paradise.
4:32
Tower Yeah, yeah, yeah. OK.
4:36
Well then I'm going to throw a question at you before we go
4:38
into four, and that is, do you think, and I haven't got to ask
4:43
you this yet because of the first commentary we've done, do
4:45
you think 4 parts is the ideal length for a Doctor Who story, a
4:54
classic Doctor Who story? Yes, because I would stand by a
5:01
statement that quite a few people have made where they they
5:05
feel that 66 parts doesn't work. It's it's always too long and it
5:12
and it goes a bit flabby, a bit flat in the middle maybe.
5:17
So I yeah, there are quite, there are quite a few 6 parters.
5:23
I struggle with 2 parters. I mean they never seem
5:31
substantial enough. I, I, I because it's we've and
5:35
and they've all. They've always been quite weird
5:37
stories, haven't they? You know when you've got the
5:38
well, I can't remember the first one.
5:41
What was it? Edge of destruction, isn't it?
5:44
And then you've got the rescue. So Edge of Destruction's this
5:48
weird mad fever dream of a story, isn't it?
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Rescue is basically introducing the new companion, then we
5:58
don't, I suppose, Then we don't get them until was it sun time?
6:02
Sun time. Experiment, Yeah.
6:03
Which I personally, I really, really love.
6:05
I love that one. But that's kind of a six parter,
6:09
isn't it? It's that market space.
6:10
It's set in the same universe. Well, I I think that season
6:15
feels like you could kind of watch it in one big long.
6:19
Big they they're. Really well linked together.
6:21
You know the fact that the you know the second one's set on
6:25
Nerva Beacon, but you come back to that at the end in Revenge of
6:30
the Cybermen, don't you? And and.
6:31
You know, Dad, nobody has done Santana experiment yet.
6:34
Perhaps with a blood penknife. Well, talk.
6:37
Me up. Hang on, I'll just This is very
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indulgent. I'll just do the diary, OK.
6:42
Yeah, right. You're in.
6:44
Yeah. So yeah.
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And like all those Davison ones, they're, they're, they're, I
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mean like King's Demons is one of my least favorite Doctor
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Who's oh. Boy, I've got to do season 20
6:58
soon. And yeah, that's going to be a
6:59
toughy to talk about. They're so substantial, aren't
7:03
they? Yeah, I'm not sure why they
7:06
became a regular thing during that era, but I mean, black
7:11
orchids, OK? But again, nothing really
7:14
happens. The the Doctor just plays
7:17
cricket and Adric stuffs his face at the party.
7:23
The Awakening I quite like, I quite like that one.
7:27
But but yeah, I I feel, yeah, four episodes.
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This is a very long winded answer to your question.
7:34
Yeah, I I think 2's too short, 6 is too long.
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Freeze sometimes work, but but I think more often or not, you
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kind of wish there was a fourth part to kind of make it work
7:49
better. I can.
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I mean, I understand why they did them.
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It was, you know, J&T trying to stretch the budget as far as he
7:58
could and and he did a wonderful job of doing that.
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But yeah. Weird trade off with Freeze
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because I feel like they go by so fast.
8:07
Like, they're so easy to watch and they're they're super
8:11
fast-paced and it's over before you know it.
8:13
When I did Delta recently, we couldn't believe it went by.
8:18
But on the other hand, like you said earlier, there's so much
8:21
missing sometimes that it hampers the storytelling.
8:24
Yeah, I think for me, Delta's probably the one that works the
8:28
best because like we were saying earlier, question from one of
8:31
you, you know, was it from Fraser, was it?
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I can't remember who it was now, but yeah, it's got a nice pace
8:41
to it That works really well with that story and the story
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they're trying to tell. Whereas then I think like when
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you, when you look at like ghost light, it would be nice to have
8:51
a fourth. Yeah, kind of.
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Let it breathe. Better survival.
8:56
I think survival works well as free.
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Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because I think once they get
9:02
off the once they get off the Cheetah planet, it's the story's
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almost told, isn't it, you know? They basically do don't like on
9:09
Earth, on the Cheetah planet, and then mostly on Earth again.
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It's sort of structured that way.
9:14
Oh yeah. Oh, OK yeah.
9:19
Coming soon to strictly come hamster.
9:23
But yeah, I I yeah I think 4 is is is is ideal for me
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personally. I don't think the the problem
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with the four is sometimes the three is running on the spot
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because we yeah, we can't conclude the story yet.
9:43
So you do get, yeah, maximum corridor wandering or location
9:49
running around or. Yeah, Yeah, I hear that and I
9:53
and because because I think like, you know you get you kind
9:57
of get that with all the six parties.
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I mean, even like Genesis of the Daleks, which is regarded as a
10:02
classic, there's a lot of like trekking to and from the two
10:08
cities, isn't there? You know, and it's, it's it's
10:10
kind of, they're just filling time, you know, and you feel,
10:14
oh, maybe if they had gone 5 or even a four, that would work so
10:19
much better. Two of the fives, mind robber
10:22
and demons I think work beautifully as fives.
10:26
They they afford extra time for well, one is sort of conceptual
10:31
madness, just look extended set pieces and the other one, the
10:36
demons, just affords lots of character moments with its extra
10:40
time circling around to paradise towers.
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I do think this is the this is a perfectly structured for parter.
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I don't think it runs out of incident.
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I think the mystery is maintained long enough.
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I feel like the answers come when they need to be.
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And then in the last episode it's so satisfying because it is
11:02
literally the individual plot elements, IE the Resis, the
11:06
Kangs, all of that joining forces to create the by now
11:11
established villain. Stephen Wise written a great
11:15
script here I think. And you know, I did say on
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Strictly that the one thing that is missing from Season 26 is 1/3
11:24
Stephen White script, because I think Paradise House is a great
11:27
script. I think Great Show in the Galaxy
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is a great script and I think there's space for it because I
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think he's developing. Yes, yeah, yeah.
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I mean it's yeah, it's a it's a weird one, isn't it?
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But I mean that's I think that's the unfortunate thing about this
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this era, isn't it? The fact that they only got 4
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stories a year that because there are so, you know, like is
11:53
it Malcolm Cole that or that did the delta and abandonment.
11:58
I would have liked to seen a second one from him.
12:00
Yeah. What could he Graham Curry, the
12:02
happiness patrol. What would he have done next?
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And most get two, don't they? Ian Briggs gets to.
12:07
Ben Aronovich gets to Mark Platt unfortunately.
12:11
Got one I'd like to see in a second, but he would have had
12:13
two had they done another season But as well, because in 26,
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sorry guys, I promise you we'll get to the episode in a minute.
12:23
In 26 it is very serious for the most part.
12:27
Battlefield's fun, but it is trying to tell a serious story.
12:30
It's just the fact that I don't think the director got the note
12:32
that it's as fun as it is, and I feel like that sort of quirky
12:39
writing that Wyatt does would have alleviated that.
12:43
The trouble is, is you've got those free A stories there,
12:46
which is doing past, present and future, and you don't really
12:49
want to cut that up. So you'd have to lose
12:51
Battlefield, and I wouldn't want to lose Battlefield for anything
12:53
because it's so ridiculously enjoyable.
12:57
I love Battlefield, So what I want is a fifth story in Season
13:01
26, and I want to see what sort of dark, funny, smart thing
13:07
Wyatt would have done after great show in the Galaxy,
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because I think he's a he's a massively promising writer.
13:14
Yeah, yeah, I I think, I think that was one of the greatest
13:18
strengths of of this era is that I don't know how he did it but
13:25
Cartmell was able to to find these these writers that that
13:31
should have had much more promising.
13:35
Their careers should have been bigger than what they actually
13:37
got in the end. You know, unfortunately I don't
13:40
know whether it was being associated with Doctor Who at
13:43
that time tarnished and. Hindered.
13:47
Hindered their their careers because of the way the BBC was
13:51
just like we want to kill this we we you know we don't we don't
13:55
want it anymore but he he he found all and and then gave them
14:00
the environment to be able to to go create and with some.
14:05
Whatever story you want to tell, imagine telling a writer that.
14:09
Wow. OK.
14:11
And you know, go off and read this, this and this for for
14:14
influences and and yeah, you know.
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And then J&T goes like, what the hell is this?
14:20
During when he got the delta script, he said it was the worst
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thing he's ever read. Sometimes he's a little, he's a
14:27
little out of touch. But I I would have thought he
14:30
would have loved that all of the 1950s or the singing he.
14:34
Was down to direct that as well. I think he wanted to direct it,
14:37
but for you know, he was too busy chasing after Doctor Who
14:42
fans or something to to actually do that, but.
14:47
I wonder what he like as a director as well.
14:49
I mean because. He directed.
14:51
He directed the cyber massacre scene in. 55 doctors.
14:54
Yeah, yeah, which? Which is awesome.
14:56
I think he probably would have been very good, but we'll never
15:01
know now. Or no.
15:02
No, we won't. Maybe he should have directed
15:04
the Curtis Fenwick. Oh, sorry.
15:08
Shall we skip on into episode 4? Yeah, we better won't.
15:10
He People are getting good value for money out of us today
15:13
though, you know, even though they are paying nothing, right?
15:16
OK, well do you want to count this in?
15:20
Oh, yeah. OK, 321 go.
15:26
Bosch off we go. Now we need to have the big
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Richard Breyer's as Crow Agnon conversation.
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What do you what do you imagine he's channelling here?
15:39
Oh, God knows. I mean, it's on.
15:46
It's unlike anything that he's ever done in his career in it
15:50
really. When you think of, you know,
15:52
like Monica, The Glen and and all that kind of stuff.
15:55
And the Good life. Have you ever, like, really
15:58
needed a poo but you couldn't go?
16:01
Oh yeah, I. Think everyone's been through
16:03
that. That's sort of how he walks
16:04
around in it, You know, sort of like what you really need to go.
16:11
Oh, but that that was it. Splash Reliving flesh, was it?
16:21
We'll be back to collect the rubbish later.
16:25
Now my defence of this is, well, we don't know that Kraglin was a
16:32
person, right? We don't know that he was a
16:34
humanoid. He could have been an alien or
16:38
anything. He could have been one of those
16:39
weird purple creatures from Delton, the Ballymen.
16:43
But all. We know is for years and years
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and years he's been this disembodied, you know, voice
16:50
inside that box of tricks with eyes for some reason.
16:56
And now he's found himself in a humanoid body that he doesn't
17:00
really know how to control. So there is a sort of weird
17:04
twitchy. I'm not sure what I'm doing with
17:07
this body, and he looks like an actor who's not sure what he's
17:11
doing with the performance, but if you kind of give it that
17:14
reading of like he doesn't, he's puppeteering this body, but he
17:17
doesn't quite know what to do with it.
17:19
Yeah, yeah. No, I I I no because I get.
17:23
I get that as well because like he, he is basically controlling
17:30
A corpse isn't he? So obviously you know rigor
17:33
mortis would be kind of setting in and and you know because
17:36
judging by the the, the the, the, the colour of his face now
17:40
is that some grey kind of. I've been dead for a long time
17:43
look, so it would be very stiff and not yeah.
17:51
What's what's unfortunate is how he delivers the dialogue.
17:56
Yes, that that's fine, which is so.
17:59
Over the top, he makes Graham crowded in Horns of nine.
18:02
One look. Unstated.
18:04
What about Darrow in In time Lash.
18:07
I mean, I think that's quite an understated performance within.
18:10
It's sort of over the topness. Save your breath for the time,
18:15
Lash damned. Most people depart with a
18:18
scream. No.
18:22
But what is there going? You know me away.
18:26
Yeah, because it's it's, isn't it?
18:28
The bit where where the doctor basically video calls him to,
18:32
kind of. It was it.
18:34
He goes at one point, he just goes.
18:42
And he cannot deploy it because there are a few moments where he
18:45
brings his voice right down. You know, like it's not long
18:50
I've been walking around my wonderful towels again, he says.
18:55
Because that's the bit wings with pecks as well, you know.
18:57
And which I think is that that that pit you just where he's
19:01
like, he like pulls him up at one point he goes, not
19:05
frightened, are you? Honestly, a big finish you ever
19:11
want to do the return of correct line are going to give him your
19:13
number. Right.
19:15
Your your croagnon is on point. I don't know if it's that useful
19:20
of skill, but. No, no, probably not.
19:23
It's it's certainly not going to get me a BAFTA, is it?
19:26
Now let's watch how this is directed, this scene with Mel
19:28
and the robots. Oh OK, we're under the water.
19:31
He's struggling about. We can see is Oh no, clearly
19:33
he's not holding her there though.
19:34
And those scenes above the water?
19:38
He's just going after her. It just looks like he's coming
19:41
in for a grope. Actually, doesn't it?
19:43
I mean, for all we know, yeah, he might just collect musical
19:48
actresses. He's like, come on, come on, I
19:51
want your autograph. But no, she's just assumed on a
19:54
killer. Is it scary, that robot?
19:57
I mean certainly stand for it. Was stand did yeah.
20:04
I mean I think at the time I thought it was fantastic but but
20:07
then you still do. Yeah.
20:11
But you you yeah. You can see that there are.
20:15
Reasons why why some people would kind of hate on it.
20:22
Just for that publicity picture of the robot holding Mel's leg
20:27
and McCoy trying to pull her away.
20:29
Oh, it's so funny. Oh, do you know what he does as
20:34
well? Crack on he's he's that shaking
20:36
a villain as he's fumigating all the flaws.
20:40
He's got a big pen and he draws a line on the floor.
20:45
Floor 502. Oh dear.
20:51
Do you think that's a tipping point for some people?
20:54
Then Richard Breyer's in this episode.
20:59
Yeah, I think. I think so.
21:01
Would you have sat him down like J&T and said now come on
21:04
Richard. Yeah because because I I mean I
21:08
don't for a second believe that he was just taking taking the
21:13
the Mickey out of it because he's too much of a professional
21:17
actor to do that. But but I can see why people
21:23
would say oh he's just he's just taking taking the piss here with
21:27
with this performance he's not taking it seriously but yes I I
21:32
can understand I I I personally would would have done the same
21:35
but but I mean did did JMT sitting down with him have any
21:42
effect because or or is. The No, he actually says he says
21:48
an interview. No, he just made him dig his
21:51
heels in even. More.
21:52
Like a naughty schoolboy, you. Oh, you think I'm over the top,
21:56
do you? You ain't.
21:57
Yeah. That bit there where the the
22:02
chief caretaker or kragnon, sorry, was walking and the
22:06
cleaners literally pumping out toxic smoke and the caretakers
22:10
like coughing and if you weren't talking that's it would be
22:14
great. Yeah, he's literally just going
22:17
around murdering everybody. It's.
22:19
Quite horrific, isn't it? Because there's this guy that
22:21
was their boss basically just killing them all off.
22:25
There is a version of this that would be like a 15.
22:29
Yeah, yeah, for sure. So maybe you do need the camp
22:33
and the humour to keep it Doctor Who.
22:37
To balance it, Yeah, yeah. Because because I I was thinking
22:41
about this bit here where the where the Kangs are bullying
22:45
pecks. Because I went through a little
22:50
period where where when I went from Infant School to Junior
22:54
School where I was kind of bullied and I can imagine for
22:57
kids that were in that position watching that is is quite
23:01
triggering I would have thought. Well then I suppose it's nice
23:04
that you've got Bonnie there then stepping up and looking out
23:09
for. Him defending the, you know, the
23:12
those that need defending. The pay off for her, of course,
23:15
is when he he is a cowardly cuddler.
23:19
But when he sacrificed himself, he's like, OK, I've got to do
23:22
this. It's how much respect they have
23:25
for him. Yeah.
23:27
Yeah, it costs his life to get there.
23:29
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah.
23:32
Weirdly enough, the final shot I find really moving when the tire
23:35
dematerialises and it goes in on Pex lives.
23:38
And also that that what's the line is it something along the
23:41
lines of in life he he wasn't a Kang but in death he he behaves
23:47
as a Kang should do and that that's just really nice that
23:51
that total turn around you know and obviously that's that's
23:54
that's his his story isn't it but.
23:59
What do you reckon? Maddie said then, when we cut
24:01
away. Oh, yes, I'm so sorry.
24:03
I ate your best friend as a Stew.
24:05
But we do need your help. I.
24:09
Only ate the yellow ones, Yeah, we never.
24:13
Touched the red and blue ones. The lower classes.
24:17
That's what we went for. You wouldn't miss them?
24:21
Oh, no. Look, Bryce has given it some
24:23
eye now, ain't he? Unless and the deputy chief
24:31
chief care taker might be counting on to the fact that
24:33
he's anything in an unusual fashion.
24:37
Do you think it's just? Like, watch how he skips over
24:41
the clay. Oh, bless.
24:47
Yeah, I mean, this is Panto now, right?
24:51
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, like I wouldn't if I'll go
24:55
to the panto every year. If if Kragnon turned up on the
24:59
screen and everyone went Boo, I wouldn't be at all surprised.
25:03
But, but I I think it's not just, it's not just Richard
25:07
Briersley, is it? I I think there's something
25:10
quite panto about the Rezis Chuck in their tablecloths over
25:15
the cleaners and then the the the King's shooting them with
25:18
their bone out and. She goes come on on to the next
25:22
one, doesn't she? There's like these old women
25:25
going down. Can I also, I mean take a good
25:31
look at those Rezis. Why are they dolled up like
25:34
Prozis? I mean, they've got, that's a
25:38
lot of slap on their faces, isn't it?
25:41
Oh yeah, yeah. I mean like like Maddie there, I
25:43
I mean it's it it the eye shadow is is, it's like it's weird
25:51
Goldie apricot colour, isn't it? It's like.
25:53
The woman on the left has got the biggest necklace I've seen
25:57
outside of Pat Butcher and EastEnders that is quite
26:01
enormous. I mean, they're often murder
26:05
somebody. They're not going to a tea
26:07
party. Oh, we better look our best for
26:10
them, you know. They are.
26:12
They are definitely wearing this Sunday best, don't they?
26:15
Oh God, one of those blue kangs. Check out the wigs.
26:18
It is a very unfortunate fitting.
26:20
Look the one at the back there. Oh no, not her.
26:24
Where's she gone? Oh, I'll tell you when she's
26:27
back in shock. And mind you there the Kangs are
26:30
wearing a bit of make up too for sort of rough St. girls.
26:33
Yeah. They've had a bit of a tutorial
26:36
on the space tube. Well, yeah, or or one of the
26:40
Rezis must must have been like this is how you do it.
26:45
Actually, maybe that was between scenes where we cut away.
26:48
Look, look at that wig. It's terrible.
26:53
Oh, here he comes. Who's your favorite?
26:55
Clive Merrison. I'm sorry to intrude like this.
27:00
I wonder if I can have a word with you all.
27:03
Oh. Yeah, here it is.
27:05
I'm going to try doing this at work as the deliveries being
27:08
work. Get my big red pen right.
27:12
That one's done. Oh dear, Oh dear.
27:19
Maybe that is. Maybe it's too literal an
27:23
interpretation of what's occurring.
27:26
Yeah. I don't know.
27:28
Why do you always think you should keep one eye on the kids
27:31
watching? Like, I've a lot of the time
27:34
when Doctor Who talks down to its audience, I wonder if it's
27:38
explaining to the kids watching. Because if I was like 5 watching
27:43
this, would I really understand what's going on?
27:45
No. But would I understand if I saw
27:47
that big diagram of a building and a lion going for a floor?
27:50
Yes. Yes.
27:51
Yeah. I'm still looking out for the
27:55
for the actress from Parting of the Wave.
28:00
Apparently she's in there somewhere.
28:02
I don't think it's that one there now.
28:04
Oh, my word, she's good. Looks very perturbed, doesn't
28:06
she? Oh, I thought, yes, we can blow
28:14
the cleaners, no problem. Send the cleaners to the
28:17
cleaners. I see.
28:19
Oh, no. And here we go, our tablecloths
28:22
over them. We'll see if that works, shall
28:25
we? In like a a real war.
28:28
Yeah, yeah. Throw your tablecloth over a
28:31
tank, guys. Let's see what happens.
28:36
Oh, is this where the Doctor rings him up?
28:38
Cracknon. Hello.
28:41
I've never seen such shoddy workmanship in all my life.
28:48
I believed. I believe this was written
28:50
before McCoy was cast. Yeah, I think you really I.
28:54
Think Delta was the first script written with McCoy in mind,
28:57
right? So given this was sort of
29:00
generically characterized, it suits him really well.
29:03
It does. It does, yeah.
29:08
Actually, you know what? It would work on me as well if
29:10
you called me up and went Hello, Gerald.
29:15
That's the most shoddy podcast I've ever seen in my life.
29:17
Come along for this meeting and get some tips.
29:20
I'll be like, straight there. What's that?
29:27
You said Luke Malloy to guide me?
29:28
Fine. It's not a Cowardly Cutler.
29:34
No, no for sure. Actually, he's been heroic.
29:38
I've got no choice, Mel, he goes.
29:41
I one thing that is, is his hat in this season as well.
29:46
It's it. It's sort of it's kind of wonky
29:49
yeah. And battered and and more sort
29:52
of dog eared isn't it? In this one where is where is
29:55
the next couple of seasons? It's it's kind of a bit more.
30:00
When he gets that sort of tailored brown jacket in the
30:02
last season. It's almost like he's just
30:06
bought it you know, kind of thing.
30:07
It's it's, you know he's. He's sort of, he has to get that
30:11
suit after he destroys Scaro, you know, he's like, come on
30:13
now, I'm a professional now, yeah.
30:17
Oh, and don't forget the Cybermen as well.
30:19
He does exactly the same to the Cybermen.
30:21
Just as you nailed the Daleks. That's right.
30:23
Yeah, I can't believe they do that.
30:26
Oh no, no, it wouldn't. Wouldn't happen nowadays at all,
30:29
would it? You know that, you know, because
30:32
you've had certain stories moved from certain series to to
30:37
because they're too similar. So, but yeah, in this it's sort
30:41
of like we just retell the same story with the Cybermen.
30:44
And we'll pony it out as well. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
30:48
Bonnie, I love you. But please, love, will you tone
30:51
it down a bit? She was just like, but if you
30:53
come out there, Doctor, you'll be killed.
30:56
Yeah. Come on now, I see what you
31:00
mean. Yeah.
31:00
There is something a bit shambolic about it, isn't it?
31:03
Yeah, yeah. But it is it that sort of trout
31:06
and thing of don't underestimate.
31:07
I mean, it might look like a little tramp, but actually.
31:10
Yeah. I I think, yeah, it seems like
31:13
that was kind of what they were going for in this one, wasn't
31:16
it? I, I, I, I want to say Charlie
31:18
Chaplin, but I don't know if that's necessarily correct, but
31:22
you know that kind of trampish sort of look.
31:27
I've heard that actually. You pointed that McCoy and
31:29
Trout, that chaplain, esque, that description, and it's
31:34
because they're both a bit bumbling as well.
31:36
So you underestimate them. And then before you know it,
31:38
your planet's destroyed or whatever, you know the
31:41
government has toppled. They blow up good, didn't they?
31:48
In fact, the McCoy era does not have an explosion.
31:51
They go crazy. Remembrance of the Daleks.
31:55
Was it because it didn't like the the police rocker?
31:58
Because it set off all the alarms for like miles around.
32:01
Oh, you're filming Doctor Who? We thought it was a terror
32:03
attack. Nowadays they'd all be arrested.
32:08
Yes, Central London. Oh, big time.
32:11
Oh, Pex have been asked to give you this, a Kang bracelet.
32:15
And then they're all looking on, sort of proud of him, and they
32:18
still bulbs us it up. I like that bit in in in a
32:26
minute where he's he's talking to the great architect because
32:31
he knows where the Doctor is and he and and I think he delivers
32:36
it really well because he's he's sort of like was it something
32:40
along the lines of all the other mobile garbage like that sort
32:45
of. But the way he delivers it is
32:46
really good. Like he's trying to trying to
32:49
think of the right way. That'll please him.
32:51
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh my God, Even one of the
32:54
Caretakers was bopping around then.
32:56
Yeah. Oh dude, how things have changed
33:01
in Paradise Towers. Yeah, well, Pex flex those
33:05
muscles on the screen there. Yeah, it's it's the the arms
33:12
folded always always makes your your muscles look a little bit
33:15
bigger. Than it Oh man, I'll take
33:18
pictures like that all the. Time, yeah.
33:22
People swoon, you know? No, they don't.
33:24
They don't. So let me get it straight.
33:28
The way they're attempting to defeat Gragnon is to lure him to
33:33
this door and push him through it and down a Ruddy great hole
33:39
to his desk. Yeah.
33:41
It's not the usual way you dispatch a villain in Doctor
33:43
Who, is it? Very looney Tunes?
33:45
Yes. Yeah.
33:48
And and it doesn't. And it doesn't feel very
33:51
Sylvester McCoy, 7th Doctor, as we come to come to love him.
33:54
It's it's It doesn't feel you know, clever enough, does it?
33:59
Come Season 26, he's literally got the solution prepared before
34:03
the story's even started. Yeah.
34:06
He's just sort of acting all the way for oh God, how are we going
34:08
to get out of this? I had it planned all along.
34:13
Oh, no, look. What is Bryce doing now?
34:16
Not frightened, are you? Oh, he's.
34:22
Bottling it. He's bottling it.
34:24
What's it called? I can I keep asking people
34:26
there, they should just look it up when the music reflects
34:31
movement in the story. So there's a bit in a minute
34:34
where the can goes and the music follows every hand movement.
34:40
Right. Oh.
34:41
Is that is that diegetic? Is that what it's called when
34:43
the music? Informs.
34:45
Actually, that's too eyebrow for me.
34:47
OK. We'll keep talking.
34:48
I'll quickly look it up. It's I mean again this is, this
34:56
is we're getting to see the the, the largeness of the set because
35:00
we've got that bridge and the the the layers and all of the
35:07
scale of it. It's just just fantastic really.
35:09
But they could were able to do this on a a 1980s budget.
35:13
When was it? Is it a million a season there
35:16
again at this point, which was piss poor?
35:20
No diegetic means occurring within the context of the story
35:24
and able to be heard by the characters.
35:27
Well, I'll never know them, will I?
35:30
Oh, here we go. Cragnon is marching like a
35:33
lunatic now. Yeah, he's he's not quite so
35:36
stiff there is he's quite, quite sprightly.
35:39
Beg your pardon? I want to have a few words of
35:43
you. Oh, yeah, Yeah.
35:45
Look at this Poddy, this shoddy podcast I found myself in
35:48
tonight. Yeah, that's what you should be
35:50
saying to me. Yeah, actually look at the state
35:55
of that war. Yeah.
35:58
They have gone to town on making it sort of run down, haven't.
36:01
They. Yeah, it's this.
36:04
Is so fun. Drop the push him down and then
36:07
in the most exaggerated hit ever.
36:10
It's that bit in the minute though, where he, he grabs
36:13
Sylvester by the scruff of his shirt and like, he's like
36:16
bashing him. What is he doing?
36:22
Look, he's still doing it while Pex is making his decision.
36:27
Oh no, come on, come 26, they wouldn't be doing that, would
36:30
they? That was so panto.
36:33
He looks. Oh, this is a question on his
36:42
face. Oh.
36:44
God almighty, you can't take a bit of it seriously.
36:47
But it is fucking delirious, isn't it?
36:53
Oh Oh no, hang on. Wait, this is quite moving.
36:55
It's quite touching, yeah. Yeah, brave and bold as a dance
36:59
should be. One of those races is wearing a
37:07
sort of last of the Summer Wine pinafore.
37:13
What a bunch of cat. I mean, what is going to happen
37:15
here when he goes, Well, you're going to tell me.
37:19
Well, yeah, yeah. Read that comic strip and then
37:21
I'll I'll let you know how. Will they build a society who's
37:24
going to be shagging? Not the resis and the
37:28
caretakers. I hope it.
37:30
It does beg a question of like, yeah, how?
37:35
How does it? How do they repopulate the
37:37
tower? It should end right with McCoy
37:39
going. Here's the front door.
37:41
It was just covered by a bit of debris.
37:43
You know, go. Free, yeah.
37:47
Actually, that would have been nice.
37:48
I'm actually walking out into the light, You know, like, yeah.
37:50
And all, yeah, sort of blinking in the sun into.
37:53
Society. Yeah, a bit like The Truman Show
37:54
ending, you know? Yeah, like those two lads in The
37:59
Mysterious Planet where they they come out the way.
38:03
Gorgeous. Yeah, up until that point
38:05
they've been absolute dickheads, you know.
38:07
But but then they come out and they're going, oh, do you know
38:09
what? You're right.
38:10
That's beautiful. As I say, it's fresh AIR.
38:14
Yeah. Oh, I love that bit.
38:16
We've made you an honorary Kang Dr. Which one?
38:20
Both. Ah, then I'd be honoured to wear
38:22
it. What do you think about Mccoy's
38:25
business with his hat or whatever that thing is in front
38:29
of the TARDIS? I can only imagine it's him ad
38:34
libbing. I don't.
38:35
I don't think that was in the script.
38:36
I think it's just him going, oh, it wouldn't be, you know,
38:39
amusing to. Apparently Danny was notorious
38:42
for this. Oh yeah, I oh, I don't doubt it.
38:44
I mean, I'm surprised he hasn't whipped out his spoons and
38:46
started. Giving time.
38:49
Yeah, it's to say to him, look, the rehearsals got out plenty of
38:52
time. Be as creative as you want.
38:54
All your suggestions? Throw them in.
38:55
Lovely. When we get to the studio, we
38:57
need to film. Yes, of course, yes.
39:00
Don't worry. Right.
39:01
Live's. Actually, wouldn't it be
39:03
wonderful if No Sir was to shut up?
39:06
Apparently he was notorious on the set for this.
39:09
I can. I can.
39:10
Kind of see why? Because of, like his his
39:13
background where it was like the the Ken Campbell thing, which
39:15
just sounds like chaos on a stage.
39:19
I can imagine that. That's great.
39:21
Yeah. Yeah.
39:22
You know, with the ferrets down the trousers and the nails up
39:25
the nose and what have you. I can kind of understand why he
39:29
he would go, oh, yeah, this this we could do this and and it must
39:33
have. I mean, I think like JNT and
39:37
Andrew Cartmel must have wanted to give him his, you know, give
39:42
him a bit of leeway so that he can do the role as he wants to
39:47
do it. But they must, they must have
39:49
been on the flip side. They must have gone.
39:51
Come on, come on Sylvester. We we we need to kind of you
39:53
know, you can't quite do that. But I I don't know.
39:56
I don't but. I've got to say, there's so much
39:59
business in the McCoy years. There's so many little moments.
40:01
The nose touching, you know, the umbrella and silver nemesis, all
40:05
of those little touches. I think it's worth the director
40:08
being a little bit impatient to get all of those charming
40:12
moments in there. And I think it's always for the
40:15
good of the production. He just wants to take it up
40:17
above. How good it already is, you
40:20
know? I think he's totally invested.
40:23
Oh yeah, you you can you can tell even now he he loves being
40:28
the Doctor and and and at this point be be you know having been
40:32
the Doctor. What's that line?
40:33
He gives it what I've I began to realise what a gift of a part
40:38
this was and and all the different places I could take
40:42
it. And I actually, now, I've never
40:45
thought I'd say this in a million years, 10 years ago.
40:47
I'll just think we were so lucky to have him.
40:50
We're still lucky to have him, you know.
40:52
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, you know, again it's
40:57
sort of like the the casting decision to to to to bring him
41:03
in, you know, as the Doctor because I mean, I mean who who
41:07
would have known who Sylvester McCoy is.
41:11
I mean it's only because he's the Doctor and I've looked at
41:15
what he did before that. I know that he was in stuff like
41:18
the Ken Campbell Roadshow but I didn't know what the hell that
41:20
was as a kid. I, you know, I mean he was in
41:24
what was it It was a sort of is it vision on but but again I
41:30
don't think I was aware of that you know.
41:32
I don't think there's been such a dramatic turn around with any
41:35
actor though, because this is the guy that Ian Levine roped
41:39
into, recording a pre title sequence to downtime on no money
41:45
at all. Yeah, he went from that to
41:48
appearing in The Hobbit in the space of 15 years.
41:53
And in those terms, he's technically had the most
41:57
successful career of all of The Doctors, because that film made
42:01
more money than everything all the others did put together.
42:05
And. What was it?
42:07
Was it king? King Lear?
42:09
Wasn't it that he was, that he played the fool in that and that
42:12
that was meant that's been loaded as being?
42:14
Hugely praised, Yeah. And then he's gone on to do
42:17
other movies as well. The Monsters recently and things
42:19
like that turned up in Sensei over in America, you know, he's
42:23
had. And then at the same time, he's
42:24
still doing, you know, big finishes for Sixpence.
42:28
It's an incredible man, pretty much every convention going as
42:31
well. Yeah, well, I hear.
42:34
Well, this is a room that I was told by the usual suspect, but
42:38
he was the one of the first people to make become a
42:41
millionaire out of the convention circuit.
42:44
Because he'd been in The Hobbit, because he'd been in Doctor Who,
42:46
he was invited to everything and he could charge a fortune for
42:51
those Hobbit photo shoots and things like that.
42:53
He's a savvy bloke. What I I I must admit that the
42:59
how many times have I met him now I think I've met him a
43:02
couple of times at at various conventions and and the the most
43:07
of the conventions I go to are like those all inclusive ones
43:10
but then there's bonus guests where you have to kind of pay on
43:14
the day to to to meet them and and he's always he's always one
43:17
of the bonus guests which which is slightly more money for his
43:22
autograph but but even like I mean like 25 lbs I think it is
43:26
is is not it's not a great deal of money like you say
43:29
considering what he's been in since.
43:32
It's not for your moment with him as well, you know, for your
43:35
couple of minutes with him. I yeah because because I think
43:39
that the last time I I saw him George my my son came came with
43:44
me because Sylvester's his favorite classic doctor and and
43:52
because he was he was like a like I say a bonus guest not
43:55
many people were going up to meet him but but George George
43:58
had never met him before so I've I've I thought yeah my favorite
44:02
doctor I want to get I want to see him again you know and we we
44:05
were there for ages he he was like because George took one of
44:11
those Doctor Who magazine now are doing those like where they
44:18
take a year and they they do a Oh yeah.
44:20
Yeah, yeah, they're. Really, really good on, unlike
44:23
the the monthly magazine. But don't get me started on that
44:27
And George took the the 1988 one there and Sylvester was going,
44:32
oh what's this? I've never seen this before.
44:34
And he was just there flicking through it, and he would come
44:36
across a a picture, a photograph in there and he would go, Oh
44:42
yeah. And then tell us some anecdote
44:44
about that story. And then he would ask our
44:46
opinion on it, You know, like what?
44:47
What did you think of the Candy Man in Happiness, Betray and all
44:50
this sort of thing? It was really, really nice,
44:52
especially as it was like first George's first kind of Doctor
44:56
and and 1st experience of it. But yeah, a lovely man.
45:00
I've heard some mixed stories about pretty much every Doctor
45:08
Who actor. I've never heard an anecdote
45:11
about McCoy that wasn't. He gave me all of his attention
45:15
and he gave me my moment and made me feel really special and
45:18
was quirky and everything I wanted him to be.
45:22
So let's when we've got to do our three fabulous resources as
45:25
to why we recommend Paradise House, but let's end our
45:27
discussion on Paradise Towers by just saying, as you just said
45:31
there, what a guy. Yeah, yeah.
45:35
And for whatever I might say about his dreadful shouting,
45:38
acting. What a talent you know.
45:41
Yeah, yeah, for sure. Yeah.
45:44
And and like you say we we we as Doctor Who fans are are really
45:49
lucky that we got someone like like Sylvester at at this point
45:52
in the show. If only the BBC knew that as
45:56
well. Yeah, yeah, you know.
45:57
Bastards, yeah. We want.
46:00
We want that anyway. You know, we went that fourth
46:02
season with McCoy. Hello.
46:05
What do you think of the big Finnish version?
46:07
Oh, don't get me started. I didn't like it.
46:09
Remember that story I told you earlier about me and having a
46:14
run in with some of the big Finnish?
46:15
Oh. Was that what?
46:16
It was about one of those, yeah. I was not impressed.
46:22
No, because I think it it it for me, it started reasonably OK
46:28
with the Ice Warrior one. I I kind of liked like that one,
46:32
but then it didn't. It didn't get much better from
46:34
there on in. I thought the worst one was the
46:38
Aronovich Earth a the last one with the comedy aliens.
46:41
That was just diabolical. The best one I thought was the
46:44
Angela Bruce one animal, and even that I thought was pretty
46:48
average. So as a whole, I just, I don't
46:52
believe for a second what was in those audios is what would have
46:55
made it to the screen. I think it's them coming back to
46:59
it later, discussing it and. Because this Cardinal master
47:05
plan that's often talked about wasn't, Wasn't.
47:07
Wasn't there at all it. Wasn't that?
47:09
No. And and then all of a sudden
47:11
it's this big, massive, you know, leading up to Lung Barrow,
47:14
you know? I mean, I do just happen to have
47:16
a key on my keyboard here that says Numb Lock, and that's the
47:20
name of one of the monsters in one of those stories.
47:24
That's how much imagination is going into those.
47:27
Tell me, Andrew Carmel, where did you get your inspiration
47:29
from? I think what would have made it
47:31
to the screen in 1990. Oh what?
47:34
I thought 1990 would have been season 26 done again.
47:40
Maybe even a little more polished and even better, but
47:46
we'll never know. So another one of those what
47:49
ifs. Yep, Yep.
47:51
Yeah. Well, look, let's do our three
47:54
reasons why. I mean, we've covered a lot, but
47:57
we've got to sort of boil it down now.
47:59
You go first, then me back to you again.
48:02
Yeah I I I think my my #1 and and I think it it it I'm I'm a
48:08
sucker for for for visuals and and and that sort of creativity
48:13
but it is when we've talked about it quite a bit both of us
48:17
the the set is is just just brilliant and and this I think
48:22
from the point of view that you know we've talked about scale
48:25
and we've talked about different levels it's got all of that and
48:29
and some Doctor Who sets of that time did have that.
48:33
I'm not saying this is this is an isolated incident but the
48:36
fact that they've kind of like gone right.
48:39
OK so this is something that was once you know beautiful but it's
48:47
seen and it's seen better days but now it's all rundown and
48:51
grubby and they've got the light in right even to the to the
48:55
light you've got. You know, you go through
48:57
different characters and one of them's green or you go for
49:00
another one and the lighting's red.
49:03
But it but it it's just, I just love it.
49:06
I just think it's one of the best parts of of the entire
49:10
story and we didn't see that terribly often, I don't think,
49:16
during the classic years of Doctor Who.
49:19
I'm not just saying the 80s, but from 63 on to to to 89, I think
49:25
I thought. Studio band stories of the McCoy
49:27
era. There's only one in the studio
49:30
story that did it even better and that's Ghost Light.
49:32
That house is just gorgeous. But look at the Happiness
49:36
Patrol. It doesn't always work.
49:38
So look at that and then look at this and I think this is doing a
49:42
a yes, sterling job. Really good.
49:45
Really good. I I want to pray Stephen Wire
49:48
who literally comes into Dogs Who full of ideas, no real idea
49:53
who's playing the Doctor, and just belts out a toy Bunny.
50:01
Clever, weird Doctor Who script that is pushing the show in a
50:09
brand new direction, teaching continuity completely.
50:12
There's not one reference in this fucking refreshing.
50:15
After all those years of continuity and looking back at
50:17
the past, suddenly we're forging ahead into the future.
50:22
Absolutely packed full of great lines, and I think on paper,
50:26
Episode 4 is very satisfying. I don't know if it hits the
50:30
screen because there's some weird choices made, but as a
50:34
script, I think it is near perfect.
50:36
I actually think it's a better script than Greatest Show in the
50:38
Galaxy, but Greatest Show has got a better production.
50:43
Yes. Oh yeah, quite agree.
50:45
Yeah, about the the continuity, what, at what point did they
50:49
ditch in Ian Levine? Because he was this.
50:51
No, he's no. Ian Levine stepped away when
50:54
Bonnie Langford was cast and said he refused to have anything
50:57
to do with Doctor Who if she was in it.
50:59
And look, all of a sudden the show starts improving.
51:02
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I wonder what's a coincidence.
51:07
Yeah, because because, I mean that's the you know because
51:10
listen to you guys do strictly about Colin's first season and a
51:14
man alive. The I mean Attack of the
51:17
Cybermen is just fan wank, isn't it?
51:22
All the way through. And it's not even correct a lot
51:25
of the time. It's it's not it's it's it's
51:28
wrong. It's.
51:30
That's what happens when you write Doctor Who for Ian Levine
51:33
and you know that I'm going to be disingenuous now but I think
51:37
that's what's happening in about to talk about it in a couple of
51:41
weeks series nine of the new series we're making Doctor Who
51:44
for old fans who like Doctor Who to be serious and worthy and not
51:52
embarrassing to watch and not camp and not fun and I just
51:56
think it's a mistake and just like attacking the side men.
51:59
The show was on the brink of coming to an end and just like
52:03
season 22, the ratings dwindled. So it's, you know, I I I think
52:08
it's a worthy approach. I think I'm but this this this
52:13
is what Doctor Who should be. It should always be accessible.
52:16
You should always remember the kids.
52:17
You should always remember the casual audience and joy of joys.
52:22
You can also cater for Doctor Who fans as well.
52:24
Yeah, yeah. Yeah.
52:27
No, it's Richard. Oh, whose point was it?
52:30
That was yours. So it's it's me to do my yeah, I
52:34
I again, it's it's probably no surprise to to anyone.
52:40
But I would like to highlight Sylvester McCoy.
52:44
So you know, this is his second story.
52:50
I'm not sure what order they were they were filmed in, but
52:54
when when you think of the the difference in performance from
52:59
time of the Rani to this so so stories that that on screen are
53:05
are sequential, you know they've ditched all of that malapropisms
53:12
and all that sort of stuff. Which was was what a shame.
53:14
Yeah yeah you know and and he you know we've said because he
53:21
was playing against this this really over the top big
53:27
performance from Richard Breyers.
53:29
He's he it's quite a self-contained kind of 1.
53:33
So there's less of the the pratfalls and and and all of the
53:37
stuff that we were kind of getting in because again I might
53:42
be might be because I know there's a lot of this in dragon
53:46
fire isn't there where he's like skidding around corners but he
53:51
does it. He does it at one point in time
53:52
in the run. He doesn't he he legs it.
53:54
He's legging it down 1 Corridor and he's he's like the Looney
53:57
Tunes kind of thing. I mean there's a little bit in
53:59
this when he's attacked by the cleaners and he falls down the
54:02
owl like, but it's certainly a world away.
54:07
Yes. You know and you can see, you
54:11
know it's almost like the butterfly coming out, the
54:14
chrysalis. Isn't it kind you know that he's
54:17
he's beginning to find his feet. He's I know like for him he was
54:21
sort of he says that it wasn't until 25 that he kind of knew
54:25
what to do with the role he was. So this whole season he is kind
54:29
of finding his feet. But, but for me, what you see on
54:31
the TV, you can see him beginning to find his feet.
54:35
You can see him beginning to grow into the row.
54:38
You can see him, you know, being more decisive about what he
54:43
wants to do with with with the doctor and and I think it's you
54:48
know, he's he's just brilliant. He hooked me in as a kid.
54:51
Like I say, I had that little blip where I I fell out of love
54:56
with this era, but that, you know, there were reasons for
54:59
that and and I've gone back to it and I probably love it even
55:03
more than I did did back then. And and a big reason for that
55:08
is, is because of Sylvester McCoy.
55:12
Yeah, I just, I just think he's good.
55:13
He's brilliant. Man, loving all the McCoy love
55:15
on this. I would like to say it's my
55:19
second, then it's my second or my third.
55:22
My second is Richard Breyers. In every iteration of the Chief
55:27
tear cake that he plays in this, like you said, that sort of
55:31
officious rule bounds character that we all hate.
55:35
He plays that to perfection, but with a line in sort of comic wit
55:41
as well. That makes him really fun to
55:43
watch. And then I'll say it again once
55:46
he becomes Cracknon. I think you've got a truly
55:49
hastable villain that young young children, and I just don't
55:54
think we should forget those kids. 4 year olds would just be
55:58
like seem to seem probably laughing their heads off at him
56:02
because he's so crazy, and also being quite scared because he's
56:07
killing people. Yeah.
56:09
No, I I think that actually that is a that is a a really good
56:13
point because really it would it would be a much duller story if
56:23
we didn't have the end of three going into four performance from
56:30
Richard Bryce, because at that point there's no real big
56:34
villain, is there? It would be a lot worthier.
56:36
It would be a lot, you know. You'd be able to.
56:38
Show it to your friends. Yeah, yeah, but then who?
56:42
Who wants Doctor Who for that? You know, kind of.
56:46
Well, I think as a kid I'll be like going, oh, he's so silly,
56:49
you know, and but then he's, you know, that caretaker's boiling
56:53
down into the gas and I'll be like, oh God.
56:58
No, I. I just don't think.
57:00
Don't take your eyes off the kids.
57:02
No I I, I I think you're you you're really right there you
57:07
know because at the end of the day it it's it's a program that
57:11
should be accessible for all you know because because I, I, I
57:14
don't I don't prescribe to that thing that it's a kids programme
57:19
probably that's probably why I'm really into it now as a as a 45
57:23
year old. Yes, it should.
57:27
It should have a a a kid, a thing that appeals to the
57:30
children. But it's it's a family show.
57:33
It's, it's you know, that was, that was the brilliant thing
57:36
when I first become a dad that when George was of an age where
57:44
where he was kind of taking notice with these things, both
57:47
my wife, myself and my son, we sat on the sofa and we watched
57:52
it every Saturday without fail. And it's because it's a family
57:58
show. It should, it should appeal to
58:00
those that are fans. It should appeal to those that
58:04
just like good TV and it should appeal to to to the children
58:07
that want to be entertained by by a good.
58:12
I I had a conversation about Heaven said and Hell Bent
58:15
recently where I made the argument that that just isn't
58:19
for kids. You know that techno Babble and
58:22
all that walking around a castle with an old man.
58:26
Like that's just not what kids want to watch you know being
58:31
angst ridden. And I just, I just think that's
58:34
that's that's science fiction for intellectuals, you know.
58:39
And Dylan Reese, who was on there made the argument that I
58:43
don't think Doctor Who should be made for kids anymore, you know
58:46
it. And I just think that's an
58:49
appalling actually to take whether you need those kids or
58:53
not to take Doctor Who into the next generation.
58:59
I think there should be the next generation of young Doctor Who
59:02
fans. Yeah, because because I I think,
59:05
like, you know, when you think of that time when Doctor Who was
59:10
at its most popular, So what we seasons two, no, series, two to
59:18
four with David Tennant as the Doctor, I mean.
59:22
You. Couldn't go into shops without
59:25
falling over action figures and toys and all that sort of stuff.
59:29
I mean we've got, we've got boxes and boxes of the stuff up
59:33
in the attic that George bought when he was a little boy, you
59:37
know. Yeah, you know, but there was,
59:42
there was a mass appeal to it, you know, but.
59:44
He included like burping bins and fighting and stupid things
59:48
that kids would laugh at. And that's the stuff that older
59:51
Doctor fans hate, because it's it's so embarrassing, like so
59:55
humidly and oh, fuck off. Like, remember the kids?
59:58
Am I making an argument that Paradise Towers is better?
1:00:01
Doctor Who? Doctor Who?
1:00:02
I don't mean drama. Is it better?
1:00:04
Doctor Who than Heaven Said. But by a mile, it is better.
1:00:08
Well, better be a better Doctor Who, but.
1:00:11
I've almost made the argument it's better telly as well
1:00:14
because it's far more entertaining to watch.
1:00:17
Anyway, sorry, back to you. Yeah, right.
1:00:21
Yeah. I will highlight the deputy care
1:00:27
played by Clive Merrison because I for for me he so I I'm not
1:00:37
quite as on board with with Richard Briers's last bit of his
1:00:40
performance as as you are but with with the deputy caretaker I
1:00:45
think he finds exactly where that performance should be.
1:00:51
So there there is that there is obviously a comedy element to it
1:00:56
and like we highlighted it where where he goes be in the rule
1:01:00
book like that which is a bit over the top you know it kind of
1:01:04
breaks character a little bit there.
1:01:06
But I don't know. I just find it so entertaining
1:01:09
and I just love his relationship with with the the the chief
1:01:13
caretaker you know because he he obviously he he looks up to this
1:01:18
guy and admires him but but also I think he's a little bit
1:01:24
crushed and downtrodden by him as well and he he plays that
1:01:27
really, really well that the the the both sides of that.
1:01:31
That it's the It's the Iron Crone and Blood Axe.
1:01:34
It is the what's it brought A dak and rugger from Megalos.
1:01:41
You know, the subordinate who is downtrodden but fun and
1:01:46
hilarious because of it. Yeah, yeah.
1:01:48
And and you know Doctor Who's got such a rich rich history of
1:01:52
those kind of double acts and I think you know this this feels
1:01:56
this Paradise Towers one feels like it's up there with with
1:01:59
with some of the best not everyone will agree with that I
1:02:03
I know but but that's my my opinion and I he's one of the
1:02:07
reasons why I really enjoy Paradise Towers just is.
1:02:11
Glad he's some wonderful actor. Clive Morrison, I've ever seen
1:02:15
him deliver a bad performance. Ever.
1:02:19
Well, my last thing then is going to be the Rezis, which was
1:02:23
always my favorite part of this when I was younger.
1:02:26
And I think it's secretly still at 1:00 because it's just crazy
1:02:29
camp. These two wonderful character
1:02:33
actresses get into, you know, fallen over Bonnie Langford in
1:02:38
the way that they do, you know, don't be silly there.
1:02:41
You know, they are so funny until they're not.
1:02:45
And then they're really sister and they're still funny, you
1:02:50
know? Oh, see if you can find the
1:02:54
basil, you know, those sort of crazy lies.
1:02:56
And then they both get dragged off by a metal claw at the
1:03:01
fucking wave disposal. Shoot, I mean, it's crackers,
1:03:04
isn't it? But this is, this is my Doctor
1:03:08
Who. You know, I like it a bit above,
1:03:12
and I like it when it's being performed by just actors at the
1:03:16
top of their game. And I do like that sort of line
1:03:22
between sinister and comedic. And I just think Doctor Who,
1:03:26
when it does that well, it can sort of tip in either direction
1:03:30
really badly. And we could probably think of
1:03:32
loads of examples of that probably even in this season.
1:03:36
But there I just think it's it's so brilliantly done.
1:03:40
So yeah, Tabby and Tilda, last reason to recommend Paradise
1:03:46
Towers. Yeah, yeah, my God, we did it.
1:03:52
We did it. In fact, I think we talked
1:03:54
double the length of the story. So people are definitely getting
1:03:57
their value. Yeah, you might.
1:03:59
Are you going to edit some of it out?
1:04:01
Oh. Do you behave yourself?
1:04:02
I won't take out a single word, not one syllable, not one line.
1:04:08
However, whilst we're still in the episode, I'm just going to
1:04:10
ask quickly, are you willing to come back for a second?
1:04:14
Oh, yes, for sure, yeah. And yeah, should we go to the
1:04:17
Sontaran experiment next? Yes, I would.
1:04:20
I would dearly love to do that one because it's it's it's one I
1:04:23
enjoy and we're. Talking about that then we'll
1:04:25
springboard and choose the third, yeah.
1:04:28
OK. Yeah, man, that cliffhanger is
1:04:31
Sontaran Experiment. He comes out the ship and goes
1:04:34
yeah, Oh yeah, Oh, it's marvellous, isn't it?
1:04:40
Well, which just leads me to thank you very much for your
1:04:43
time and for just for talking, to choosing such an
1:04:46
idiosyncratic story with loads of strength, some weaknesses,
1:04:51
just such an interesting chat. Yeah.
1:04:54
So thank you very much. Thank you for having me, Joe.
1:04:56
It's been a pleasure. Till next time, yeah.