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Eagle Eye View: Inside the NFL with Adam Caplan · Rosters to Rings Podcast

• 0:05
  Speaker 1: Welcome back to roster st Rings. I'm your host Thad
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: Levine on Rosters to Rings. We pride ourselves on thoughtful
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: and thorough introductions for our highly accomplished guest. While with
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: twenty nine job entries on LinkedIn, our guest, Adam Kapplan,
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: has put me to the test. Adam grew up in Cheltenham, Pennsylvania,
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: and attended Ohio University and Temple. Adam is a veteran
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: NFL insider whose career has spanned the most influential platforms
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: in sports media. Adam is also an accomplished entrepreneur who
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: has blazed trils in the fantasy football marketplace. Many of
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: you know him from his tenure as a national NFL
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: insider for ESPN, or through his long standing work with
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: Foxsports dot Com and Comcast Sportsnet. Since he began covering
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: the league in nineteen ninety seven, Adam has built a
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: reputation for surgical analysis of transactions, coaching shifts, player health
• 0:56
  Speaker 1: and well being, and the high stakes of the salary cap.
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: Deeply Rooted in Philadelphia, Adam was the voice behind the
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: highly rated Friday Night Football I'm ninety seven point five
• 1:06
  Speaker 1: The Fanatic, and he continues to share his wealth of
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: knowledge a team dynamics as the co host of Inside
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: the Birds podcast. Currently, you can hear Adam his insights
• 1:16
  Speaker 1: daily as a host on series XMS NFL Radio as
• 1:20
  Speaker 1: well as Fantasy Sports Radio, where he remains one of
• 1:23
  Speaker 1: the most well connected voices in all of the industry. Adam,
• 1:27
  Speaker 1: Welcome to Rosters, to rings Fat.
• 1:28
  Speaker 2: Thank you for that introduction. Some of those things have changed,
• 1:30
  Speaker 2: by the way. I need to update LinkedIn, but yeah,
• 1:33
  Speaker 2: it's I'm so glad to be connected with you. And
• 1:36
  Speaker 2: thank you to why your producer. Yeah, this is this
• 1:38
  Speaker 2: is really called big fan of yours. I'm a big
• 1:40
  Speaker 2: baseball guy, big in a data I'm one of the
• 1:42
  Speaker 2: few reporters who kind of understands the contract side, data side,
• 1:46
  Speaker 2: also opinion side. I kind of try to blind everything together,
• 1:49
  Speaker 2: try to be fair everyone who's impopped in every part
• 1:51
  Speaker 2: of the game in football and baseball and basketball. You know,
• 1:54
  Speaker 2: I know some people in the basketball space. But anyway,
• 1:57
  Speaker 2: I appreciate you having me on, Adam.
• 1:59
  Speaker 1: It's one to have you on, and I think all
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: of the things you just referenced is why you have
• 2:03
  Speaker 1: been so relevant covering sports for close to three decades now.
• 2:07
  Speaker 1: But where I'd like to start the conversation is all
• 2:10
  Speaker 1: of our guests, we always ask what is your sports
• 2:12
  Speaker 1: origin story? How did you fall in love with sports
• 2:14
  Speaker 1: as a kid?
• 2:15
  Speaker 2: All right, so growing up in Cheldham, PA. For those
• 2:18
  Speaker 2: of you who could relate to, I know you want
• 2:20
  Speaker 2: to goo at Haverford. So I lived near Ashburn Country Club.
• 2:23
  Speaker 2: That's where I was a big golf guy early in
• 2:24
  Speaker 2: my career my life actually career life, and I just
• 2:30
  Speaker 2: love golf as a kid. And then I got frustrated
• 2:32
  Speaker 2: with it. Couldn't ticket any longer than I became a
• 2:34
  Speaker 2: tennis guy. But yeah, I love sports. Growing up in
• 2:37
  Speaker 2: Philly we had the Flyers. I could go through number one,
• 2:42
  Speaker 2: Bernie Puran through like the numbers one through thirty five.
• 2:46
  Speaker 2: I could tell you every number, Okay, and then I
• 2:47
  Speaker 2: became a Caps fan. Ironically, I went to a I
• 2:50
  Speaker 2: was in high school a Cheltenham nineteen eighty two of
• 2:53
  Speaker 2: the Caps got shut out ten to nothing at the Spectrum.
• 2:56
  Speaker 2: I'm like, I'm going to become a Caps fan. I'm
• 2:57
  Speaker 2: no bandwagon fan, you know, know, I just I love sports, hockey, baseball,
• 3:02
  Speaker 2: Phillies Sixers diehard Sixers fan flew out to the one
• 3:06
  Speaker 2: finals on my own dime, got one ticket off of
• 3:08
  Speaker 2: eBay for like four hundred dollars. It was well, actually
• 3:11
  Speaker 2: probably eight hundred dollars. I went to two or three games.
• 3:13
  Speaker 2: But I was just a passionate fan. But then when
• 3:15
  Speaker 2: you become a reporter, you're a fan of the game,
• 3:17
  Speaker 2: but you're no longer a fan of the local teams
• 3:19
  Speaker 2: you grew up with. You have to that. And I
• 3:21
  Speaker 2: don't know about for you because I don't. We'll get
• 3:22
  Speaker 2: into what teams you like. But I had to stop
• 3:25
  Speaker 2: being a fan, be fan of the game and fan
• 3:27
  Speaker 2: of coaches. You know, I don't root for anybody anymore
• 3:30
  Speaker 2: in the NFL. I can't, but I'm I'm a fan
• 3:33
  Speaker 2: of and I root for my friends not to get fired.
• 3:35
  Speaker 2: I mean, that's just you know that I'm very supportive
• 3:38
  Speaker 2: of coaches in front off executives. It's a cut for
• 3:40
  Speaker 2: a business as you well know, being a general manager.
• 3:43
  Speaker 2: But yeah, what was my inspiration was? I love sports?
• 3:46
  Speaker 2: Growing up? My father built custom homes, built the home
• 3:49
  Speaker 2: that I was in. Was not into sports till he
• 3:51
  Speaker 2: liked golf. He kind of got me in the golf.
• 3:52
  Speaker 2: We used to play golf together, but I was a
• 3:55
  Speaker 2: sports guy. I wanted to be a play by play voice,
• 3:57
  Speaker 2: and then, because of my thirst for knowledge, I always
• 4:00
  Speaker 2: would ask why, why did this happen? Why did you
• 4:03
  Speaker 2: make this move? Why did you cut that player? Why
• 4:06
  Speaker 2: did you get that player right? Why did you get
• 4:07
  Speaker 2: that wrong? What happened? I wanted to ask why? And
• 4:10
  Speaker 2: I tell kids when I speak to them, never ask
• 4:13
  Speaker 2: stop asking why. You have to keep asking why. And
• 4:15
  Speaker 2: there's nothing wrong with it. I know some gms get
• 4:17
  Speaker 2: mad at MA, and I didn't ask you why you
• 4:19
  Speaker 2: missed it. I just want to know what you were thinking.
• 4:21
  Speaker 2: I'm not saying was wrong or right. It's your evaluation,
• 4:24
  Speaker 2: but I want to know what you were thinking why
• 4:26
  Speaker 2: did you do it? And I have my own information
• 4:28
  Speaker 2: I've gathered, but I'm just curious, why did you make
• 4:29
  Speaker 2: that move and why did you get it right or wrong?
• 4:31
  Speaker 2: I'm just I have a thirst for knowledge. It has
• 4:33
  Speaker 2: never left me, no matter what happens in my career.
• 4:36
  Speaker 1: And Adam, I think that's so refreshing to hear from
• 4:38
  Speaker 1: an executive standpoint, because the reality is we always talk
• 4:41
  Speaker 1: when we're trying to make decisions. We talk about the
• 4:44
  Speaker 1: process and the fact that the process is more important
• 4:46
  Speaker 1: than the ultimate outcome, but the realities we get evaluated
• 4:49
  Speaker 1: on the outcomes. So to have somebody in your position
• 4:52
  Speaker 1: who can proliferate the message to the fans to dive
• 4:56
  Speaker 1: into what the process was, because candidly, I think there's
• 4:59
  Speaker 1: always some tis a gap between what we intend to
• 5:01
  Speaker 1: do and how we actually executed. We should be held
• 5:03
  Speaker 1: accountable to that. But there's two different things there. We're
• 5:06
  Speaker 1: just usually judgment by the outcome, but the process sometimes
• 5:11
  Speaker 1: was really sound. It just didn't arrive at the results
• 5:14
  Speaker 1: we had hoped for. And I just to relate to
• 5:16
  Speaker 1: something you said relative to learning all the numbers growing up,
• 5:19
  Speaker 1: I grew up in Northern Virginia. I was a big
• 5:21
  Speaker 1: Baltimore area sports fan. My dad taught me math by
• 5:25
  Speaker 1: challenge me such with such things as what is Eddie
• 5:28
  Speaker 1: Murray plus cal Ripken and Eddie Murray was number thirty three,
• 5:31
  Speaker 1: cal Ripton was number eight, and I was like, that's
• 5:33
  Speaker 1: forty one. And so I learned my initial arithmetic by
• 5:37
  Speaker 1: way of Baltimore Orioles Jersey numbers, which was a tremendous experience.
• 5:41
  Speaker 2: And I was going to say, how I did it,
• 5:43
  Speaker 2: and the retired players stick them out of my mind,
• 5:45
  Speaker 2: like there's something wrong with me. So I met. I
• 5:48
  Speaker 2: think his name is Jim Fawnhorst. Was he was in
• 5:51
  Speaker 2: a left He might have been a left tackle. He
• 5:52
  Speaker 2: certainly was an offensive lineman for the forty nine Serper
• 5:54
  Speaker 2: Ball teams in the mid ninety of mid eighties. So
• 5:57
  Speaker 2: were you seventy one? Yes to me, because you're nine intent,
• 6:01
  Speaker 2: I said no. But I learned players by number first,
• 6:03
  Speaker 2: not by name. That was just I don't know why
• 6:05
  Speaker 2: I did that mentally, but I could go through I
• 6:08
  Speaker 2: was a big don't ask me why. I like the
• 6:10
  Speaker 2: logo the Dallas Mavericks, Mark Acguire, Rolando Blackman. I could
• 6:15
  Speaker 2: go through their entire roster like I could. I could
• 6:17
  Speaker 2: tell you Curtin Imphius's number. Don't add this, I should
• 6:20
  Speaker 2: know this. But this is the mind as we get older,
• 6:22
  Speaker 2: you and I are sort of close to the same age.
• 6:24
  Speaker 2: But now with the NFL players being able to kind
• 6:26
  Speaker 2: of wear what they want, I couldn't tell who's it anymore. Right.
• 6:29
  Speaker 1: I sometimes don't exactly remember my wife's birthday, but I
• 6:32
  Speaker 1: could remember the whole nineteen eighty three Orioles roster in
• 6:36
  Speaker 1: their in their numbers.
• 6:37
  Speaker 2: They beat the Phillies. You say eighty three maybe the Phillies.
• 6:39
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I remember that. Well remember a lot of
• 6:41
  Speaker 1: those Phillies as well. Adam. What people may not know
• 6:44
  Speaker 1: about you is you actually spent about twenty years of
• 6:46
  Speaker 1: your career in sales before you actually need the shift
• 6:49
  Speaker 1: to sports. What inspired you take the risk?
• 6:52
  Speaker 2: Not quite that many, but yeah. So look, I went
• 6:55
  Speaker 2: to school for radio, TV, film, and when I was
• 6:58
  Speaker 2: done with school, there was no internet, and I had
• 7:01
  Speaker 2: to make money. Like my dad was super old school,
• 7:04
  Speaker 2: like they're done supporting in your early twenties. I'm the
• 7:06
  Speaker 2: youngster four boys, so that I had a hustle. I
• 7:09
  Speaker 2: had to work. I learned how to hustle. So I'll
• 7:11
  Speaker 2: just say this on the air. I haven't really talked
• 7:13
  Speaker 2: about this much, but I sold women shoes. That's where
• 7:15
  Speaker 2: I met my wife at Lord and Taylor and King
• 7:16
  Speaker 2: of Prussia. You know, you went to school out here,
• 7:18
  Speaker 2: I was, you know, I was in sales in the
• 7:20
  Speaker 2: late eighties and through late late nineties, like ten It
• 7:24
  Speaker 2: wasn't twenty years with more like ten years. But I
• 7:27
  Speaker 2: just had a hustle. Dude, I had to work, and
• 7:29
  Speaker 2: I wasn't. I didn't care how people judging. My friends
• 7:32
  Speaker 2: made fun of me selling. My friends called me al Bundy.
• 7:34
  Speaker 2: I didn't care. It's like, oh, right, whatever I'm making,
• 7:36
  Speaker 2: you know, I'm making money. But the hustle is what
• 7:38
  Speaker 2: it's all about for people watching who don't know what
• 7:41
  Speaker 2: that means is. And I'm still doing it well into
• 7:44
  Speaker 2: my fifties. I have you mentioned a lot of a
• 7:47
  Speaker 2: lot of those jobs. I don't do it anymore, but
• 7:49
  Speaker 2: I still have five gigs plus the company I stream
• 7:51
  Speaker 2: a company. I don't inside the birds, so I have
• 7:53
  Speaker 2: to do that to make a living. I'm what it is,
• 7:55
  Speaker 2: what it is. We all have to make a living,
• 7:57
  Speaker 2: and sometimes you have to balance a couple of things.
• 8:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah, well, hey, listen. Another commonality with us. I got
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: my start working for Reebuck and then I was farmed
• 8:06
  Speaker 1: out to their subsidiary Rockport Shoes. So what there was
• 8:09
  Speaker 1: in the mid nineties, so I was I was one
• 8:12
  Speaker 1: decade behind you in terms of selling shoes. This is
• 8:14
  Speaker 1: an interesting road that we're paving from the shoe industry
• 8:17
  Speaker 1: into the sports industry. Maybe this is more of a
• 8:19
  Speaker 1: pathway than I would realize, but Adam. As you as
• 8:22
  Speaker 1: you progressed, you've launched businesses with some very intriguing partners.
• 8:27
  Speaker 1: Can you share with us the stories behind your partnerships
• 8:29
  Speaker 1: with Jay Glazer, Steve Cohen and ultimately also with your
• 8:32
  Speaker 1: nephew Sam.
• 8:34
  Speaker 2: Yeah, this is okay. So again, as we get to
• 8:39
  Speaker 2: know each other. You know, I'm a very willing listener,
• 8:41
  Speaker 2: and I'm willing to try anything once. If I don't like,
• 8:42
  Speaker 2: I just want to do it. So my nephew Sam,
• 8:47
  Speaker 2: who's probably in his late forties, I got him into
• 8:50
  Speaker 2: fantasy football. You know, I was in a league where
• 8:52
  Speaker 2: I worked in the early nineties and I didn't know
• 8:54
  Speaker 2: anything I was. I played participate baseball. That for just
• 8:57
  Speaker 2: for understanding what my background was. I love retissue baseball.
• 9:02
  Speaker 2: I'd had a ledger. I was super into numbers, you know,
• 9:03
  Speaker 2: I was a big numbers guy growing up. And we
• 9:06
  Speaker 2: were in a league with defensive players and which is ridiculous,
• 9:09
  Speaker 2: like how the what do you get? This is for
• 9:11
  Speaker 2: the internet, so that we couldn't get any information. So
• 9:13
  Speaker 2: I called like the USA USA Today's nine hundred number
• 9:16
  Speaker 2: to get the box scores because remember the Sunday the
• 9:20
  Speaker 2: Monday edition would not have the late box scores Sunday
• 9:23
  Speaker 2: night for the Sunday night football game. This is nineteen
• 9:25
  Speaker 2: ninety ninety one, ninety two. And Sam then who Sam Sewn,
• 9:29
  Speaker 2: was the late forties. We'd probably been in high school,
• 9:31
  Speaker 2: maybe ninth through tenth grade, and you know, I have
• 9:34
  Speaker 2: so sort of like a mentor to him, and I
• 9:38
  Speaker 2: got him involved with a lot of things I was doing.
• 9:39
  Speaker 2: I was like, hey, getting this fantasy league with me,
• 9:41
  Speaker 2: and then he loved it. So he started his own
• 9:43
  Speaker 2: fantasy football newsletter called The Fantasy Football Insider, and then
• 9:47
  Speaker 2: Sam would sell. Because he was a pioneer, he sold
• 9:50
  Speaker 2: to fanball dot com. Sam brought me in as a
• 9:52
  Speaker 2: news editor. I was really technically one of the first bloggers.
• 9:55
  Speaker 2: I was around the time I worked with Steve and Jay.
• 9:58
  Speaker 2: But I kind of created a way to do injury reporting.
• 10:02
  Speaker 2: I had to come up with something. So it was like,
• 10:04
  Speaker 2: let's say I was doing Major League Baseball GM Levine says,
• 10:07
  Speaker 2: call in at quote whatever, the story is one of
• 10:11
  Speaker 2: the injured pitcher, and then I put analysis under that.
• 10:14
  Speaker 2: And I'm not I'm not sure if I was the
• 10:16
  Speaker 2: first one to do it, but I certainly was. I
• 10:17
  Speaker 2: did it and a lot of people were doing it,
• 10:19
  Speaker 2: so that was in the late nineties and then the
• 10:22
  Speaker 2: Internet boom bust happened, so fanball went under. Sam left
• 10:27
  Speaker 2: the business and became an MMA promoter. I'm not into it,
• 10:30
  Speaker 2: but he worked for Bellatur and he would sign and
• 10:32
  Speaker 2: book the matches. I don't watch mmas it's too barbaric.
• 10:36
  Speaker 2: Then he got out of it. He's in sales of
• 10:38
  Speaker 2: his own, so I'm proud of him. He's a great guy.
• 10:40
  Speaker 2: And I was working part time for Stephen j and
• 10:44
  Speaker 2: they saw what I could do because I'm a big multitasker,
• 10:48
  Speaker 2: which has its benefits. Sometimes it's downside. You don't want
• 10:50
  Speaker 2: to take on too much for our brain as we
• 10:52
  Speaker 2: get older. So I became a partner and we would
• 10:57
  Speaker 2: wind up. It was kind of unhealthy. It was great
• 10:59
  Speaker 2: for my career doing inter reporting fad, but I became
• 11:02
  Speaker 2: two hundred and fifty pounds now I'm about two hundred.
• 11:05
  Speaker 2: But it was very bad for me, and I told
• 11:07
  Speaker 2: my partners in two thousand and eight, I can't do
• 11:08
  Speaker 2: this anymore because I was kind of running the day
• 11:10
  Speaker 2: to day of it. Steve had his job for Wfan
• 11:13
  Speaker 2: as an executive producer for Mike and the Maddog and
• 11:15
  Speaker 2: Jay was his career started to take off at CBS
• 11:18
  Speaker 2: and Fox. I told those guys, hey, guys, I can't
• 11:20
  Speaker 2: do this is I can't do this anymore. As I
• 11:23
  Speaker 2: got to get out there, I got to go meet people,
• 11:25
  Speaker 2: I got to further my career. I can't be at
• 11:28
  Speaker 2: home on my computer all the time. So that was
• 11:30
  Speaker 2: two thousand and eight. We sold it to John Hanson
• 11:32
  Speaker 2: was up. He's got a fantasy site. We used to
• 11:34
  Speaker 2: be called Fantasy Grud, now called Fantasy Points. I came
• 11:36
  Speaker 2: in as a consultant for him for many years at
• 11:38
  Speaker 2: information Consultant. I had to get out of it because
• 11:41
  Speaker 2: I went to ESPN in twenty thirteen. Adam Schefter was
• 11:43
  Speaker 2: gracious enough to recommend him for the job. We weren't
• 11:46
  Speaker 2: We were competitors and not really friends, and I went
• 11:48
  Speaker 2: there in twenty thirteen as a paid contributor. I was
• 11:51
  Speaker 2: working at Comcast Sports in at Philly fab which is
• 11:53
  Speaker 2: now called NBC Sports Philly, and I worked two jobs
• 11:57
  Speaker 2: as pay contributors to both. And then Seth Markman said
• 12:00
  Speaker 2: you're gonna like this story. He said, come to my
• 12:02
  Speaker 2: office and bring your playbook. And I go, oh, my god,
• 12:04
  Speaker 2: they're firing me. I just got there and he started laughing,
• 12:06
  Speaker 2: as you are, and because relaxed, do we're not faring you?
• 12:09
  Speaker 2: And he goes, would you like to work here? I'm like, yeah,
• 12:11
  Speaker 2: but you told me we'd have to wait a year.
• 12:12
  Speaker 2: And then he goes, no, I think we know what
• 12:13
  Speaker 2: we got and you offer me a contract. He goes,
• 12:15
  Speaker 2: you have an agent?
• 12:16
  Speaker 1: Go no?
• 12:17
  Speaker 2: And I said I didn't have an agent when I
• 12:18
  Speaker 2: interviewed with ESPN and O seven. I was a terrible mistake,
• 12:21
  Speaker 2: but I didn't think i'd beginning a job. Now. He says,
• 12:23
  Speaker 2: you better get one. So I got an agent, and
• 12:26
  Speaker 2: you know, they offered me a contract. I got two
• 12:28
  Speaker 2: contracts from them. But that's kind of my route, as
• 12:31
  Speaker 2: you mentioned it, kind of what happened with sales and
• 12:34
  Speaker 2: media work and having to learn on my own. And
• 12:37
  Speaker 2: you know, it wasn't easy. It was you know, you
• 12:39
  Speaker 2: had to learn how to be you had to learn
• 12:41
  Speaker 2: how to be a personal executive in baseball. I had
• 12:43
  Speaker 2: to have mentors. I had mentors, you know, I was
• 12:46
  Speaker 2: youngest for four boys. But I had to learn on
• 12:48
  Speaker 2: my own how to ask questions, how to get people
• 12:50
  Speaker 2: to help you not being afraid to ask for help.
• 12:53
  Speaker 2: That was really hard for me, Man. I thought people
• 12:55
  Speaker 2: would judge me if I asked for help. I didn't know, Man,
• 12:57
  Speaker 2: growing up, my brothers are much older than I. I
• 12:59
  Speaker 2: had for help as I was growing up in this business.
• 13:02
  Speaker 1: You've talked about so much there, Adam, that I'd love
• 13:04
  Speaker 1: to underpact. The last piece of which is so vital
• 13:07
  Speaker 1: I think, which is this notion that when you work
• 13:10
  Speaker 1: in professional sports you have to have all the answers.
• 13:12
  Speaker 1: I think there's nothing more endearing to a group of
• 13:15
  Speaker 1: people than when you ask for help. There's nothing more
• 13:17
  Speaker 1: important empowering than when you actually accept the help and
• 13:21
  Speaker 1: have that inform your actions and your decisions. And so
• 13:25
  Speaker 1: I've always tried to employ that. It's at the front
• 13:27
  Speaker 1: end of my career, I tried to present as if
• 13:30
  Speaker 1: I knew everything. As I got more mature, I realized
• 13:33
  Speaker 1: there was nothing better than for me to ask somebody
• 13:35
  Speaker 1: in the room, hey, can you help me out, and
• 13:37
  Speaker 1: then actually have their voice impact when you were a.
• 13:42
  Speaker 2: Really oh yes, wow, yes.
• 13:44
  Speaker 1: And it's you know, it's really was a culture building
• 13:46
  Speaker 1: moment when you could be vulnerable in the room and
• 13:49
  Speaker 1: you create a culture where the expectation is we're all
• 13:52
  Speaker 1: going to ask each other for help because we're better
• 13:54
  Speaker 1: as a unit than we are as any individual. But Adam,
• 13:57
  Speaker 1: I want to talk to you a little bit about
• 13:58
  Speaker 1: something that I know is personal to you that you
• 14:00
  Speaker 1: just referenced, which is health and well being, and that
• 14:03
  Speaker 1: that's something you've really invested personally and as your career
• 14:06
  Speaker 1: has progressed, talk to us a little bit about the
• 14:08
  Speaker 1: role you've played and how rigorous it is and how
• 14:12
  Speaker 1: it can be destructive and you have to really do
• 14:14
  Speaker 1: take ownership of your health and well being. We talk
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: about it a lot publicly about players, but we don't
• 14:20
  Speaker 1: talk it necessarily about the people who cover these same players.
• 14:23
  Speaker 2: I was two hundred and fifty pounds at the start
• 14:25
  Speaker 2: of pandemic. I got very worried that word for something
• 14:27
  Speaker 2: really bad. That Previously, trying to lose weight, I did
• 14:30
  Speaker 2: what I call the lose weight, get rich scheme. Let means, Okay,
• 14:33
  Speaker 2: let's do a fad diet, let's do this or that,
• 14:35
  Speaker 2: and it's not going to last. So I made a
• 14:37
  Speaker 2: life decision. I'm like, you know what, just take it slow,
• 14:39
  Speaker 2: stop putting pressure on yourself. So I used my friend
• 14:42
  Speaker 2: Dan Graziano from ESPN. I finally listened to him and
• 14:44
  Speaker 2: I got what's called the Lose It app, which I
• 14:46
  Speaker 2: still have in here. I'll never get rid of it.
• 14:47
  Speaker 2: It's a reminder of how far I've come, because sometimes
• 14:49
  Speaker 2: we need that. And I've not put on more than
• 14:51
  Speaker 2: five pounds in five years. I'm very accountable, sometimes too
• 14:55
  Speaker 2: hard on myself. I became mostly vegan every Monday. I
• 14:59
  Speaker 2: have a ritual, a pattern. So you asked me what
• 15:01
  Speaker 2: why my inspiration was, because it was I was unhealthy.
• 15:04
  Speaker 2: Being behind a computer for fifteen years is not good man,
• 15:07
  Speaker 2: you could I mean it's morbally obese. Two and fifty
• 15:10
  Speaker 2: pounds is really I'm about six foot one half inch
• 15:13
  Speaker 2: and uh, you know cardioc as we get older, you
• 15:15
  Speaker 2: have a cardiologist and tell me to lose weight, you know,
• 15:18
  Speaker 2: I just but it was me when I got a
• 15:20
  Speaker 2: cardiologist a couple of years ago. You know, he said
• 15:23
  Speaker 2: you could lose a little bit more, and now I was.
• 15:24
  Speaker 2: You know, I did, and I feel great for it. Now.
• 15:27
  Speaker 2: Sleep is another thing which has not been great, and
• 15:29
  Speaker 2: I'm working on it. But overall, to answer your question
• 15:32
  Speaker 2: and finality here, I just knew I had to do it, man,
• 15:35
  Speaker 2: I was very unhealthy and it being in this business,
• 15:38
  Speaker 2: as you mentioned, it could be for on your end.
• 15:40
  Speaker 2: The stress that I remember talking to Andy read about
• 15:42
  Speaker 2: it about his stress because he had personnel control when
• 15:45
  Speaker 2: he was with the Eagles and being friends with personnel
• 15:47
  Speaker 2: executives and coaches over the years. It's not healthy, man,
• 15:51
  Speaker 2: It's not healthy your business. Yeah, you can be very
• 15:53
  Speaker 2: wealthy and that's great, but you want your health to
• 15:56
  Speaker 2: be honest with you. That's big. That's bigger to me
• 15:58
  Speaker 2: than that.
• 15:59
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I agree with you, and I think this is
• 16:01
  Speaker 1: something we don't talk about enough, is the immense amount
• 16:04
  Speaker 1: of stress that people who work in sports process. And
• 16:07
  Speaker 1: it's not just the players who are in the batter's
• 16:09
  Speaker 1: box or under center. It's the people who work in
• 16:12
  Speaker 1: sports and people who cover sports. It's a cutthrow business.
• 16:15
  Speaker 1: And I want to ask you a question about that.
• 16:17
  Speaker 1: You referenced Adam Schefter earlier. It was your talents that
• 16:20
  Speaker 1: brought you to the radar of VESPN. It may have
• 16:23
  Speaker 1: been Adam Schefter who helped put you across the line.
• 16:25
  Speaker 2: To get the job there.
• 16:27
  Speaker 1: And I just be curious any landscape of the covering
• 16:31
  Speaker 1: the NFL, which is such a cutthroat business. How did
• 16:34
  Speaker 1: you always prioritize building relationships with fellow insiders rather than
• 16:38
  Speaker 1: competing with them per se?
• 16:40
  Speaker 2: So I asked Jay Jay Glazer, as a business partner
• 16:42
  Speaker 2: of mine many years ago, you know, I just wanted
• 16:44
  Speaker 2: to ask him, like how he does it? Don't give
• 16:46
  Speaker 2: away secrets, but just some tips, you know, I asked him.
• 16:48
  Speaker 2: Chris Warrenson, the late Chris Warenson, is a good mentor
• 16:51
  Speaker 2: of mine the brief time we worked at ESPN together
• 16:53
  Speaker 2: before he got sick. But really he was really the
• 16:56
  Speaker 2: inspiration for me. You know, I just watched Chef to
• 16:58
  Speaker 2: works Tireless amazing. This energy is ridiculously great, but I
• 17:03
  Speaker 2: just would admire that people did. Will McDonough was really
• 17:05
  Speaker 2: another one. I never met Will, but I just was
• 17:08
  Speaker 2: blown away by his ability. Him and Mort were the
• 17:12
  Speaker 2: two people I remember. Mort and I had a speak
• 17:14
  Speaker 2: engagement together in Minneapolis, where you live, and I asked him,
• 17:18
  Speaker 2: I said, what's going on with Dorsey Levin's contract? And
• 17:20
  Speaker 2: he calls ron Wolf and I almost fainted. How's he
• 17:23
  Speaker 2: doing this?
• 17:24
  Speaker 1: That?
• 17:24
  Speaker 2: I was like, this is like crazy, Like he's calling,
• 17:28
  Speaker 2: like he's he's on speaking terms with Ron Wolfe. Oh
• 17:30
  Speaker 2: my god, this is like the craziest thing. And that
• 17:33
  Speaker 2: energized me, man, because I want to know how they
• 17:35
  Speaker 2: did it. I wanted to know that. I want to
• 17:36
  Speaker 2: know before we get out of here. How did you
• 17:38
  Speaker 2: Why were you inspired to make this trade like you had?
• 17:40
  Speaker 2: You had to have inspirations in your career. Why did
• 17:43
  Speaker 2: you become a GM What did you really want to
• 17:44
  Speaker 2: do that your whole life? I come back to me
• 17:47
  Speaker 2: just for a second. I didn't know I was definitely
• 17:48
  Speaker 2: going to be a reporter, but I was inspired to.
• 17:50
  Speaker 2: I wanted to know why.
• 17:52
  Speaker 1: And Adam, one thing that I talk about on the show,
• 17:54
  Speaker 1: you referenced your father and the influence he had on you.
• 17:57
  Speaker 1: One of the things my dad instilled in me was
• 17:59
  Speaker 1: the fact that he asked me early on in my life,
• 18:01
  Speaker 1: he said, if you know what you're passionate about, pursue it,
• 18:05
  Speaker 1: because so few people know what they're passionate about it.
• 18:07
  Speaker 1: He was referring to people of his generation, let alone
• 18:10
  Speaker 1: my generation. He said, most of my friends they don't
• 18:12
  Speaker 1: really know what they want to do. But if you
• 18:14
  Speaker 1: know what you want to do, pursue it. If you
• 18:16
  Speaker 1: have a chance to actually pursue it. Count yourself as
• 18:19
  Speaker 1: one in a million if you get a chance to
• 18:21
  Speaker 1: know what you want to do, pursue it and make
• 18:23
  Speaker 1: a living doing it. He called those people passion unicorns,
• 18:26
  Speaker 1: and so he's like, be a passion unicorn. Live it
• 18:29
  Speaker 1: out as long as you can. There are a lot
• 18:30
  Speaker 1: of starving artists out there who know what they want
• 18:32
  Speaker 1: to do, but they're not able to provide for themselves
• 18:35
  Speaker 1: and their families. I was able to do that. I
• 18:37
  Speaker 1: never lost sight of how blessed I felt to have
• 18:40
  Speaker 1: those opportunities. Adam, I want to take you back to eve.
• 18:43
  Speaker 2: What was your inspiration for you? Because you didn't tell
• 18:46
  Speaker 2: me yet, what was your inspiration for your career? We're
• 18:47
  Speaker 2: getting to know each other. We didn't. We didn't know
• 18:49
  Speaker 2: each other before. For the folks know to know that,
• 18:51
  Speaker 2: we didn't know each other before this. So I don't
• 18:53
  Speaker 2: know what was your inspiration for your career.
• 18:55
  Speaker 1: So it's where my sports origin story started. Was ironically,
• 18:59
  Speaker 1: when it was about five years old. I was at
• 19:01
  Speaker 1: a Baltimore Orioles game with my dad. I was sitting
• 19:04
  Speaker 1: on his lap. There was a foul ball that was
• 19:06
  Speaker 1: hid in our area without hesitation. He vaulted to his feet,
• 19:10
  Speaker 1: ranged into the aisle and caught the ball. Meanwhile, he
• 19:13
  Speaker 1: dropped me to the ground. His beer was cascading all
• 19:15
  Speaker 1: over my chest. I had a hot dog mustard face
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: down on my face and he caught the ball and
• 19:20
  Speaker 1: it was like the happiest moment of his life. And
• 19:22
  Speaker 1: so I thought, in that moment, if this man could
• 19:24
  Speaker 1: be this happy about something, this is something that maybe
• 19:27
  Speaker 1: I'd want to pursue. And it was really the bond
• 19:30
  Speaker 1: that forged between me and my father and it still
• 19:32
  Speaker 1: is to this day. And Adam, I would say, when
• 19:35
  Speaker 1: I was a kid, he took me to games, and
• 19:37
  Speaker 1: now that I feel like he's Benjamin Buttoning. He's about
• 19:39
  Speaker 1: fourteen years old right now. Now I get to take
• 19:42
  Speaker 1: him to games. And it's just been such a wonderful
• 19:44
  Speaker 1: encapsulation of my life with my father. And so it's
• 19:47
  Speaker 1: something I've done not only for us, but it's certainly
• 19:51
  Speaker 1: for me. But it's something that I've shared with my
• 19:53
  Speaker 1: dad and now I'm sharing also with my family, and
• 19:55
  Speaker 1: it's been a wonderful.
• 19:57
  Speaker 2: Blessing, awesome story. Dude, I again, so glad. I asked
• 20:00
  Speaker 2: that because when I meet people, I just want to
• 20:04
  Speaker 2: know what I want to know what inspires them, because
• 20:06
  Speaker 2: you can inspire others by telling your story. It's not
• 20:08
  Speaker 2: so much about you, it's about what makes you you
• 20:10
  Speaker 2: and how can you can help others. That's that as
• 20:12
  Speaker 2: an unbelievable story, because you never know when you ask people.
• 20:16
  Speaker 2: I want to kind of funny things I do when
• 20:17
  Speaker 2: I travel, when I meet couples. You know, I could
• 20:19
  Speaker 2: be at a bar, Hey, how did you guys meet?
• 20:21
  Speaker 2: You never know what they're going to say. It's actually
• 20:23
  Speaker 2: very interesting.
• 20:24
  Speaker 1: I couldn't agree more. Adam, you talked about your time
• 20:26
  Speaker 1: with ESPN. I imagine that was an incredible place to work,
• 20:30
  Speaker 1: but it also came with some tumult and some drama.
• 20:34
  Speaker 1: As you referenced, there were layoffs there, and I wonder
• 20:38
  Speaker 1: if you could share with our listeners the practicality from
• 20:41
  Speaker 1: your perspective. You're under contract, you get laid off. What
• 20:45
  Speaker 1: does that mean for you? What are your limitations as
• 20:47
  Speaker 1: you still aspire to build your career and build your brand,
• 20:51
  Speaker 1: but the contract stipulates that maybe you don't have as
• 20:53
  Speaker 1: much freedom as you expect. What's the practicality of that
• 20:56
  Speaker 1: from your perspective?
• 20:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah, what happened? Was, so is the draft of twenty seven.
• 21:00
  Speaker 2: I don't they swear this had nothing to do with it.
• 21:04
  Speaker 2: So I remember I had my longest week at ESPN.
• 21:06
  Speaker 2: They actually, when I say week usually my schedule was
• 21:09
  Speaker 2: really great. Seth Mark my old boss and my camberreri
• 21:12
  Speaker 2: or scheduling producer, and he oversaw it, helped oversee NFL
• 21:16
  Speaker 2: Insiders the shore they brought me in for. They kind
• 21:18
  Speaker 2: of let you pick your schedule. So what I've do
• 21:19
  Speaker 2: I had a very you talk about process. Here's my
• 21:22
  Speaker 2: process door to door from my home in south of
• 21:24
  Speaker 2: King of Prussia for those who wanted the little landmark.
• 21:26
  Speaker 2: So I would leave it like noon on Tuesday. I
• 21:30
  Speaker 2: get there four o'clock. It was door to door four hours.
• 21:32
  Speaker 2: I'd go out. We would stay at the Bristol Double Tree,
• 21:36
  Speaker 2: and then we'd have a production We have a production
• 21:38
  Speaker 2: meeting on Wednesday morning for NFL Insiders, and I'd have
• 21:40
  Speaker 2: to do it depending if I was the guy there
• 21:42
  Speaker 2: today that day it was just me and mort and
• 21:45
  Speaker 2: a former executive that This is the great part about
• 21:47
  Speaker 2: that show that Seth created. It goes into what your
• 21:49
  Speaker 2: your your format, which I love. They had a rule
• 21:52
  Speaker 2: could be no ex players on it. It was reporters,
• 21:56
  Speaker 2: former executives. Now Litu Ritick, who's still there, was a
• 21:58
  Speaker 2: former player, but he's also for personnel director. What a
• 22:01
  Speaker 2: great format. It was great. I know I'm biased. It's
• 22:04
  Speaker 2: the best show on television I've ever seen. It's on
• 22:07
  Speaker 2: The Fust Show and I would watch NFLI but I
• 22:09
  Speaker 2: would watch it when I wasn't on it. I was
• 22:11
  Speaker 2: so loving the talk between my friend Bill Pollian, Marty Hernie,
• 22:15
  Speaker 2: Billy Devanni. You could tell Ridick, me Schefter, Moore Fieldietz.
• 22:21
  Speaker 2: It would come on later, Dan Graziano. It was only
• 22:24
  Speaker 2: half an hour, and it was so great, so educational.
• 22:27
  Speaker 2: I'm about education as you are, and that's why you're
• 22:29
  Speaker 2: doing your show clearly. And I just was I missed
• 22:32
  Speaker 2: that show man. I gotta be honest with it best
• 22:33
  Speaker 2: by far, the best studio show on television.
• 22:36
  Speaker 1: Well, and Adam, things have really changed in terms of
• 22:39
  Speaker 1: covering sports, and I wonder if you could talk to
• 22:41
  Speaker 1: us a little bit about, you know, how do you
• 22:43
  Speaker 1: cultivate reliable sources in an era when journalistic integrity has
• 22:48
  Speaker 1: been a little bit overpowered by this instant gratification of
• 22:51
  Speaker 1: social media.
• 22:52
  Speaker 2: When I got to ESPN. I didn't know much about
• 22:54
  Speaker 2: a sal Palell. I know I should mentioned Sale helped
• 22:56
  Speaker 2: me out a little bit. I asked for him for opinions.
• 22:58
  Speaker 2: Ron Drorski I've known forever. I didn't know a lot
• 23:01
  Speaker 2: of people at the ESPN. Chefter and I weren't really
• 23:02
  Speaker 2: not friends. We were competitors, and he was gracious enough
• 23:05
  Speaker 2: to recommend me for the show and to be there.
• 23:07
  Speaker 2: But you know, I kind of went in blindly and
• 23:10
  Speaker 2: I had you know, they had this reputation. You the
• 23:12
  Speaker 2: Tim Tebow stuff. They blow everything up before Steve and
• 23:16
  Speaker 2: A became steven A. We started really in Philly, but
• 23:18
  Speaker 2: you know, they had a reputation for blowing stuff up.
• 23:20
  Speaker 2: And you know that's not really what I do. Man.
• 23:22
  Speaker 2: I'm not a big h I'm an a loud guy,
• 23:24
  Speaker 2: you know. To be honest with the I'm very private.
• 23:26
  Speaker 2: I just had to be me. I was not going
• 23:28
  Speaker 2: to be yelling or shouting. I didn't see that. By
• 23:30
  Speaker 2: the way, I'm proud to say, Tom I was there.
• 23:33
  Speaker 2: I never was asked to do anything I didn't want
• 23:35
  Speaker 2: to do. I was never asked to talk a specific
• 23:38
  Speaker 2: way they wanted me to tag things. There are certain
• 23:40
  Speaker 2: things in television you need to do. But no, there
• 23:42
  Speaker 2: was nothing. I didn't see that stuff. I see still
• 23:46
  Speaker 2: the step and a stuff. Look, he's great at what
• 23:47
  Speaker 2: he does. I had know jealousy, good good friend, make
• 23:49
  Speaker 2: twenty million year that's been out there, But no, we
• 23:51
  Speaker 2: didn't do that. In the NFL side was the NFL Live,
• 23:54
  Speaker 2: NFL Insiders Sports Center. No, and I got coached by
• 23:57
  Speaker 2: the best of the business, Jerry Madelineho is a dear
• 23:59
  Speaker 2: friend of mine who's now when of my closest friends, Jerry.
• 24:02
  Speaker 2: I didn't have a I didn't My agent then from
• 24:05
  Speaker 2: Legacy Agency, Russ Bielman, said to me, I want you
• 24:07
  Speaker 2: to work with Jerry Mannilatt. He's a performance coach. And
• 24:09
  Speaker 2: what the hell's that? I didn't know anything. I had
• 24:12
  Speaker 2: to be coached, you know. I had a willingness to
• 24:14
  Speaker 2: be coach. I hated to watch myself. I had him
• 24:16
  Speaker 2: at the reporter part to answer the second part of
• 24:18
  Speaker 2: your question. I had the reporter part. I knew how
• 24:19
  Speaker 2: to be a reporter because I had enough sket you know,
• 24:21
  Speaker 2: I had enough schooling for mentors and learning by your mistakes.
• 24:26
  Speaker 2: But I didn't know how to I had been on
• 24:27
  Speaker 2: Comcast Sports and before that, as you mentioned, but I didn't.
• 24:29
  Speaker 2: I never got coached there. It's not their fault. I
• 24:31
  Speaker 2: just I was a contributor. I didn't really I wasn't
• 24:34
  Speaker 2: a full time worker for them, so I never I
• 24:36
  Speaker 2: never was coached, and I got coached, and I got
• 24:38
  Speaker 2: coached hard man for six months. It was painful, but
• 24:41
  Speaker 2: it helped.
• 24:41
  Speaker 1: Hey, Listen, when there's constructive feedback in our lives, it
• 24:45
  Speaker 1: really can propel us forward. Where I am today in
• 24:47
  Speaker 1: the show versus where I started is vastly different, and
• 24:51
  Speaker 1: I give so much appreciation and credit to producers Jason
• 24:55
  Speaker 1: Wyatt who've just really influenced me greatly. And one thing
• 24:58
  Speaker 1: I just wanted to know.
• 24:59
  Speaker 2: How did How did? I'm very curious to know how
• 25:01
  Speaker 2: they helped.
• 25:01
  Speaker 1: You shock therapy? They zat mean when I am not
• 25:06
  Speaker 1: saying things the right way. No, They've given me just
• 25:10
  Speaker 1: really honest feedback about things that I can improve along
• 25:13
  Speaker 1: the way, and I think they've had tremendous rapport. They've
• 25:16
  Speaker 1: helped shape a lot of the interviews, but they also
• 25:19
  Speaker 1: have given me critiques afterwards, which have been sometimes very
• 25:22
  Speaker 1: positive but other times very constructive. And it's been very
• 25:25
  Speaker 1: valuable for me. Awesome and Adam, I want to just
• 25:27
  Speaker 1: call out it's so impressive to me in talking with
• 25:30
  Speaker 1: you and getting to know you, how many people you
• 25:32
  Speaker 1: reference who have had meaningful impacts in your life. And
• 25:36
  Speaker 1: I'm sure that is why you've always been widely known
• 25:39
  Speaker 1: as this one of the best relational guys in the game.
• 25:41
  Speaker 1: Like when you talk to people about you, everyone speaks
• 25:45
  Speaker 1: glowingly of you. Even the people who you cite as
• 25:47
  Speaker 1: your competitors are recommending you for jobs because of the
• 25:51
  Speaker 1: ultimate respect they have for you. But a lot of
• 25:53
  Speaker 1: that is because you're such an daring character in addition
• 25:56
  Speaker 1: to being such an intelligent person who's offering some tremendous insight.
• 26:00
  Speaker 1: And that's where I would like to ask you a
• 26:02
  Speaker 1: quick question. You've really bridged the gap between covering the
• 26:05
  Speaker 1: NFL and also giving tremendous insights in the fantasy space.
• 26:09
  Speaker 1: How do you do both? How are you kind of
• 26:12
  Speaker 1: catering to a little bit of the world of the
• 26:14
  Speaker 1: today's gambler but also having such elite knowledge that impresses
• 26:19
  Speaker 1: and garners you interviews with the best of the best
• 26:21
  Speaker 1: in front offices players in the media.
• 26:23
  Speaker 2: It's a great question. So let's give an example. So
• 26:27
  Speaker 2: let's say you're a GM and let's say I was
• 26:29
  Speaker 2: covering baseball, right, you and I got to know each other,
• 26:32
  Speaker 2: but I would have to take information. I call it
• 26:34
  Speaker 2: information translations. The time I came up with because I
• 26:36
  Speaker 2: had to learn earlier in my career, how can I
• 26:37
  Speaker 2: make people smarter? We all have to find out what
• 26:40
  Speaker 2: is our niche so to speak, what do we do well?
• 26:43
  Speaker 2: Everyone in life does something well, believe or not. There's
• 26:46
  Speaker 2: things and my wife could tell you I'm a klutz
• 26:49
  Speaker 2: and a lot of things, but there's certain things that
• 26:51
  Speaker 2: I do better than maybe she does. And she does
• 26:53
  Speaker 2: a lot of things better than I do, which is
• 26:54
  Speaker 2: clearly the case. But I had to figure out what
• 26:57
  Speaker 2: is my role here? You know what? I have a
• 26:59
  Speaker 2: hand in the hand the fantasy side. In the nineties,
• 27:01
  Speaker 2: I've transitioned to being a full time NFL report live
• 27:04
  Speaker 2: it less a lot less with fantasy. But when I'm
• 27:06
  Speaker 2: on whatever I'm doing, it has to do with fantasy.
• 27:09
  Speaker 2: I've got to relate to everybody. So what I do
• 27:11
  Speaker 2: is I evaluate offensive coordinators. I could give you the background, Well,
• 27:14
  Speaker 2: what happened with treyvon Henderson? This year the Patriots. Why
• 27:17
  Speaker 2: did he go from the outhouse to the penthouse in
• 27:20
  Speaker 2: the outhouse, Well, Josh McDaniel's scheme, folks, I want you
• 27:22
  Speaker 2: to understand this. You don't get on the field less.
• 27:24
  Speaker 2: He might have been a great past protector with Chip
• 27:26
  Speaker 2: Kelly two years ago at Ohio State. That's an easy
• 27:29
  Speaker 2: scheme to learn. He had all the most rookie running backs,
• 27:32
  Speaker 2: as I was told, struggle to learn Josh mcgeniel's scheme.
• 27:36
  Speaker 2: So I want to give them value. It's all about value,
• 27:38
  Speaker 2: as you know in the media. What value do I
• 27:40
  Speaker 2: have whoever I work with with sports grid, I want
• 27:43
  Speaker 2: to I don't gamble. I can't as a conflict of interest,
• 27:46
  Speaker 2: but I understand lines. I could speak it. Trust me,
• 27:48
  Speaker 2: I could speak it. I'll say, well, you know what,
• 27:50
  Speaker 2: that line is too high, and here's why I don't
• 27:53
  Speaker 2: agree with it. I could, speaking from understand coaching injuries,
• 27:58
  Speaker 2: which is a specialty of mine, calling the way the
• 28:01
  Speaker 2: teams manage, like when you do future numbers for people
• 28:03
  Speaker 2: who like that stuff, when you look at how many
• 28:05
  Speaker 2: wins the team's going to have. I'm not I get
• 28:07
  Speaker 2: some wrong. I was really way off in the Patriots
• 28:09
  Speaker 2: speaking of them. I thought over eight and a half
• 28:11
  Speaker 2: was a lot. I was wrong, but I like to
• 28:14
  Speaker 2: give them vow to answer your question. Move this along here.
• 28:16
  Speaker 2: I have to figure out what people want to know,
• 28:18
  Speaker 2: what makes them smarter. I just gave him everything. I
• 28:21
  Speaker 2: gave him background. My role is when I do a
• 28:23
  Speaker 2: little media coaching that I don't give them a lot
• 28:26
  Speaker 2: of tips. I go. It's real simple when you go
• 28:29
  Speaker 2: on the air, whether your former player did they learn
• 28:31
  Speaker 2: something when they listened? Be your own harshest critic. I
• 28:34
  Speaker 2: am of my career. No one could coach me harder
• 28:36
  Speaker 2: than me, other than Jerry G. Matt, who is probably
• 28:38
  Speaker 2: what I know he's going to be watching this. We
• 28:39
  Speaker 2: all struggle in life, believe it or not. Even the
• 28:41
  Speaker 2: biggest high achievers Warren Buffett, who I'm a big fan of.
• 28:44
  Speaker 2: I'm sure he didn't get everything right in his life,
• 28:46
  Speaker 2: believe or not.
• 28:48
  Speaker 1: I couldn't agree more. Adam, you just referenced it. But
• 28:51
  Speaker 1: for somebody who didn't coach in the game or play
• 28:53
  Speaker 1: in the game. You're well known for your meticulous breakdown
• 28:57
  Speaker 1: of schemes in personnel. Was there a coach or scout
• 29:01
  Speaker 1: that you encountered in your time that really helped you
• 29:05
  Speaker 1: propel you forward and breaking down film.
• 29:07
  Speaker 2: Here's what happened. So Jaws and I work for NFL Films.
• 29:12
  Speaker 2: They produced a fantasy show called NFL Fantasy Live with
• 29:15
  Speaker 2: John Hanson and I and I got to know Jaws
• 29:18
  Speaker 2: said hey, man, I want to watch film with you,
• 29:19
  Speaker 2: and he said, you got to talk to Greg co Selho.
• 29:21
  Speaker 2: Greg now works for me in my company and Jeff
• 29:23
  Speaker 2: and I inside the Birds and I know Greg for
• 29:26
  Speaker 2: twenty years. And it was like, oh, four oh five,
• 29:28
  Speaker 2: this has going from like dial up internet to high speed,
• 29:30
  Speaker 2: Like this is crazy. This coaching tape, this's all twenty
• 29:32
  Speaker 2: two and I was just like, I clearly don't know
• 29:35
  Speaker 2: what I think I know. And I and we and
• 29:37
  Speaker 2: former coaches and executives wud come and Joe Flacco got
• 29:41
  Speaker 2: brought in with his agent. We brought Joe and they
• 29:42
  Speaker 2: wanted to talk to Joe because they had a lot
• 29:44
  Speaker 2: of questions for Joe, you know, well just on his career.
• 29:47
  Speaker 2: It's great. And that was really something that I learned
• 29:50
  Speaker 2: tape through Jaws and Greg, and then I would get
• 29:53
  Speaker 2: to know coaches and traveling over my career and I'd
• 29:56
  Speaker 2: ask some questions and I'd learned that you got to
• 29:58
  Speaker 2: watch coaching tape. You could do reporting some NFL team
• 30:01
  Speaker 2: doctors without going into who I spoke with. I would learn, Okay,
• 30:05
  Speaker 2: what's a great at three MCL, what's a great two MCL?
• 30:07
  Speaker 2: How does this relate to this position? That position? And
• 30:10
  Speaker 2: I had a reputation for not being wrong because they
• 30:13
  Speaker 2: were educating me. Fad, I had to get educated, like
• 30:15
  Speaker 2: if you were. I want to know if I was
• 30:18
  Speaker 2: covering MLB, what do you look look for launch angle?
• 30:22
  Speaker 2: How important is certain type of speed ops ops ops plus?
• 30:26
  Speaker 2: How important is that to you? Is it a junkstat
• 30:29
  Speaker 2: This is I have to know that. I don't have
• 30:31
  Speaker 2: to agree with you, but I need to know what
• 30:33
  Speaker 2: you're thinking and speaking that way, I could speak intelligent. Hey,
• 30:36
  Speaker 2: look I didn't agree with it, but Fad got it right.
• 30:40
  Speaker 2: I was wrong. I know. Next time I talked to him,
• 30:42
  Speaker 2: I'm going to ask him, why did you like? Why
• 30:44
  Speaker 2: did you get that right? Did your scout tell you
• 30:47
  Speaker 2: in that meeting you were just tell me about that
• 30:48
  Speaker 2: you had where you went around the room. Hey, guys,
• 30:50
  Speaker 2: I need help here. What were the opinions I'm going
• 30:52
  Speaker 2: to ask you? I'll say according to a source, it
• 30:55
  Speaker 2: might have been you. Levin, I'm told went around the room, yes,
• 30:58
  Speaker 2: all five of his lieutenant what they thought, because he
• 31:01
  Speaker 2: couldn't make a decision, and that's how I do it.
• 31:03
  Speaker 1: I think that's wonderful and I think it really illuminates
• 31:06
  Speaker 1: this notion that in our roles we should always be contributing,
• 31:09
  Speaker 1: but we also have to be learning. You have to
• 31:11
  Speaker 1: be evolving. Our sports are evolving so much. You've already
• 31:14
  Speaker 1: referenced how different today's media in the NFL is than
• 31:18
  Speaker 1: was when you started. Every part of our industries are evolving.
• 31:22
  Speaker 1: It's exciting, it's exhilarating. We don't want to stand still.
• 31:25
  Speaker 1: If you do, the sport will run right past you.
• 31:28
  Speaker 1: If you try to do things tomorrow the way you
• 31:30
  Speaker 1: did them today, somebody is beating you in professional sports,
• 31:34
  Speaker 1: and that is always the case. Listeners, please stay with
• 31:36
  Speaker 1: us through the break. On the other side, we're going
• 31:38
  Speaker 1: to get into today's NFL and we're going to hear
• 31:40
  Speaker 1: about Adam's assessment of the coaching carousel, and we're going
• 31:43
  Speaker 1: to certainly do a deep dive into the Philadelphia Eagles.
• 31:46
  Speaker 1: Here on rosters to rings. Welcome back to Rosters to Rings.
• 31:58
  Speaker 1: We're continuing a wonderful conversation here with Adam Kaplan, and
• 32:02
  Speaker 1: I'm curious for you in your in your history. One
• 32:05
  Speaker 1: thing that we've discussed on rosters Rings before is the
• 32:08
  Speaker 1: sensitivity from an executive standpoint when stories break early before,
• 32:14
  Speaker 1: sometimes when players haven't heard, their families haven't heard, and
• 32:17
  Speaker 1: how damning that can be from a media members perspective.
• 32:20
  Speaker 1: How does that play out for you.
• 32:22
  Speaker 2: I'm real sensitive to it. I had a story, it's
• 32:25
  Speaker 2: the only time it happened, and I felt terrible about it.
• 32:28
  Speaker 2: I wasn't wrong about my story, but I had. It's
• 32:30
  Speaker 2: a running back named Reuben Drones who played for kind
• 32:33
  Speaker 2: of a journeyman, good player for the Giants and Brown.
• 32:35
  Speaker 2: So I put out put out that I think it
• 32:38
  Speaker 2: was the Giants acquiring Ruben Drones and he had not
• 32:40
  Speaker 2: been told yet, and it was true. I mean, it happened,
• 32:42
  Speaker 2: but I'm like, so humiliating. You should never find out
• 32:46
  Speaker 2: for the media that you were traded. It's just I'm sorry,
• 32:48
  Speaker 2: I'd rather not do that. My My deal is this,
• 32:52
  Speaker 2: for the young people out there, you need to be right,
• 32:55
  Speaker 2: not first. If you're first, that's great, but you also
• 32:58
  Speaker 2: need to do the right thing. I'd rather I'd rather
• 33:00
  Speaker 2: not do the biggest story of my career than rather
• 33:02
  Speaker 2: burn somebody. I'm just like that. And it really I
• 33:05
  Speaker 2: couldn't sleep for like two days. Man, it really hurt
• 33:07
  Speaker 2: me that I did. And I never met rumin Drones.
• 33:09
  Speaker 2: I don't you know. I'm not going to tell you
• 33:10
  Speaker 2: what I got for. It wasn't his agent, but I
• 33:13
  Speaker 2: felt I got bleeped on for it. But and iposially said, hey,
• 33:17
  Speaker 2: I should have checked. You know. I'm sorry. I learned
• 33:20
  Speaker 2: a lot from that, Like you have to always this is,
• 33:23
  Speaker 2: you know, the first three or four years of being
• 33:25
  Speaker 2: a reporter. I had to learn from my mistakes. And
• 33:27
  Speaker 2: you always make sure you're button up. It's not about
• 33:30
  Speaker 2: two socials so much. It's making sure that the player
• 33:33
  Speaker 2: finds out. Now in today's I mean, I'm sure it's happened.
• 33:36
  Speaker 2: I don't know if an NFL story where the player
• 33:38
  Speaker 2: fent out through Twitter, the agent, you tell the agent,
• 33:41
  Speaker 2: you give them five minutes or whatever it takes, it's
• 33:43
  Speaker 2: going to get out. That's just the way it is.
• 33:45
  Speaker 1: Well, I can tell you from a club's perspective, you're
• 33:47
  Speaker 1: the exact type of member of the media we want
• 33:50
  Speaker 1: to work with because you know, at some level, these
• 33:53
  Speaker 1: guys are human being and we want to respect their families.
• 33:56
  Speaker 1: We want to respect their ability to find out this information,
• 33:59
  Speaker 1: even as you say, even if it's just for five
• 34:01
  Speaker 1: minutes to process it before they get inundated and crushed
• 34:04
  Speaker 1: by all the people in their lives or in the
• 34:07
  Speaker 1: fan base who are commenting on it. And one of
• 34:11
  Speaker 1: the I had a very cathartic moment in my career
• 34:14
  Speaker 1: similar to what you just said. We had made a
• 34:17
  Speaker 1: significant trade with the Detroit Tigers. Essentially, the trade was
• 34:21
  Speaker 1: trading Ian Kinser, who was a superstar second baseman, for Princefielder,
• 34:25
  Speaker 1: who was a superstar first baseman. And the trade was
• 34:28
  Speaker 1: in its final stages, but there was a lot of details.
• 34:31
  Speaker 1: It's still yet to be ironed out. John Daniels, the
• 34:34
  Speaker 1: general manager of the Texas Rangers, gets on an airplane.
• 34:37
  Speaker 1: He's going to Phoenix, Arizona with his wife for a
• 34:39
  Speaker 1: very rare vacation. He says, Hey, if anything happens in
• 34:42
  Speaker 1: the next two hours, can you be in touch with
• 34:44
  Speaker 1: Dave Dombrowski. So I actually happened to be at SMU
• 34:49
  Speaker 1: University teaching a sports law class that night as a
• 34:53
  Speaker 1: guest lecturer, and about twenty five minutes into the lecture,
• 34:56
  Speaker 1: you know, I'd said at the beginning, if anyone asked
• 34:58
  Speaker 1: any questions, feel free to ask me. Point someone raises
• 35:01
  Speaker 1: her hand twenty five minutes in and says, did you
• 35:03
  Speaker 1: just trade Ian Kinsler for Prince Fielder? I said, allow
• 35:05
  Speaker 1: me to step out of the room for a minute,
• 35:07
  Speaker 1: and oh, my god, so we got Oh. I was devastated,
• 35:11
  Speaker 1: and exactly what you just talked with regards to Ruben Drones.
• 35:15
  Speaker 1: But the difference here, Adam, was I had a personal
• 35:18
  Speaker 1: relationship with Ian Kinsler, and so now John Daniels and
• 35:21
  Speaker 1: I are both feverishly trying to call him. We're trying
• 35:23
  Speaker 1: to apologize to his agent, to him, and sadly it
• 35:26
  Speaker 1: led to a really fraid relationship for a number of years,
• 35:29
  Speaker 1: which mercifully Ian's been gracious enough to come back to
• 35:32
  Speaker 1: the table and understand and accept our apology. But in
• 35:35
  Speaker 1: that moment, while I think the trade ultimately didn't work
• 35:39
  Speaker 1: out for the Rangers, so in addition, the trade didn't
• 35:41
  Speaker 1: work out, but in the moment, I felt like it's
• 35:44
  Speaker 1: such a failing to have let the Kinsler family down
• 35:48
  Speaker 1: in that moment that we weren't able to keep that private,
• 35:51
  Speaker 1: and so something as you reference it, really shaped me
• 35:54
  Speaker 1: in my career, and I became so fastidious about, like
• 35:58
  Speaker 1: making sure we kept all of those leaks as close
• 36:01
  Speaker 1: to the vest as we possibly could, so that we
• 36:03
  Speaker 1: could talk to the player and so he could talk
• 36:05
  Speaker 1: to his family before such a life altering experience was
• 36:08
  Speaker 1: bestowed upon him.
• 36:09
  Speaker 2: What I would ask you is a follow up, is
• 36:11
  Speaker 2: because I called them corrections. When I've made a mistake
• 36:13
  Speaker 2: in my career, I called it, okay, how could I
• 36:15
  Speaker 2: correct this? What it doesn't happen again? How did you
• 36:17
  Speaker 2: correct that mistake or however got out? How did you
• 36:19
  Speaker 2: make it so?
• 36:20
  Speaker 1: And you just said it at him? Unfortunately, there's only
• 36:23
  Speaker 1: so much we can control in these situations, right, So
• 36:26
  Speaker 1: I think it's just really stressing the value of confidentiality
• 36:31
  Speaker 1: and really illustrating here, you know, the failure I had
• 36:34
  Speaker 1: and how the impact had had on one of our
• 36:37
  Speaker 1: valued members of our team and his family. And I
• 36:40
  Speaker 1: think that really impressed upon the group of people with
• 36:42
  Speaker 1: which we shared that information, the gravity of these situations.
• 36:46
  Speaker 1: And so I never operated in the sense of like
• 36:48
  Speaker 1: I wanted to keep the nets so tight, because the
• 36:50
  Speaker 1: other side of the coin here is when your employees
• 36:53
  Speaker 1: read on trade rumors that you've made a trade, they
• 36:55
  Speaker 1: feel a little bit disconnected and disenfranchised themselves. So you're
• 36:58
  Speaker 1: actually trying to really thread this needle of making sure
• 37:01
  Speaker 1: for sure the player knows it for him, but ideally
• 37:04
  Speaker 1: so do your trusted advisors and their staff members, because
• 37:08
  Speaker 1: you want to engender loyalty and make them feel like
• 37:10
  Speaker 1: they're part of something special. When they read like a
• 37:13
  Speaker 1: fan reads about something that the franchise has done, it
• 37:15
  Speaker 1: doesn't really add to the culture of your franchise. It
• 37:18
  Speaker 1: sometimes tears at the fabric of it. So you're really
• 37:21
  Speaker 1: trying to sit on that sea saw and it's very
• 37:23
  Speaker 1: difficult to balance because at the end of the day,
• 37:25
  Speaker 1: there's so little of it you can control because as
• 37:28
  Speaker 1: you reference, whether it's an agent who says something, or
• 37:30
  Speaker 1: remember the media who somehow catches wind of it, or
• 37:33
  Speaker 1: a league official who is reviewing the trade notes, there's
• 37:36
  Speaker 1: so many points where it can leak. You've got to
• 37:38
  Speaker 1: do the best you can. But I don't think the
• 37:40
  Speaker 1: answer is to really tighten the loops so tight that
• 37:44
  Speaker 1: no one really gets to know what's going on. You
• 37:46
  Speaker 1: want people to weigh in on these decisions, You want
• 37:48
  Speaker 1: them to know about it. It really engenders loyalty in culture, Adam,
• 37:52
  Speaker 1: I wanted to get your take. It struck me this
• 37:55
  Speaker 1: off season in the NFL, such a storyline has been
• 37:57
  Speaker 1: around the coaching carousel. We did a little homework Gun
• 38:00
  Speaker 1: and I was shocked to see. And this is not
• 38:02
  Speaker 1: just in the NFL for the listeners, this is also
• 38:04
  Speaker 1: the NBA. In Major League Baseball, there's about a fifty
• 38:07
  Speaker 1: percent turnover and head coaches over a two year period.
• 38:10
  Speaker 1: Why do you think there's such volatility in this position
• 38:13
  Speaker 1: in the NFL.
• 38:14
  Speaker 2: I could really only speak the NFL. I covered the
• 38:16
  Speaker 2: NBA for like three months in two thousand and four,
• 38:19
  Speaker 2: and I got rid of it. I just couldn't do
• 38:21
  Speaker 2: it. It's impossible to be to cover two sports like that
• 38:23
  Speaker 2: at same time as they overlapped in the fall. It's
• 38:26
  Speaker 2: the pressure to win. Sometimes it's what's the new Shawney toy?
• 38:29
  Speaker 2: That it's like, Okay, who's the next Sean McVay guy? Right,
• 38:32
  Speaker 2: who's the next young guy who's up and coming? And
• 38:35
  Speaker 2: these West Coast offensive guys. I mean, you look at it.
• 38:38
  Speaker 2: A lot of them are actually pretty good head coaches.
• 38:40
  Speaker 2: I don't know what the in baseball. I don't know
• 38:43
  Speaker 2: what the big like, who's the guy that they try
• 38:46
  Speaker 2: to pattern after. I know the big West Coast tree,
• 38:49
  Speaker 2: the Shanahan McVeigh tree is big. And this cycle was crazy.
• 38:54
  Speaker 2: We had the one retirement Mike Tomas step in a
• 38:57
  Speaker 2: wife for least a year. What thing I've learned, as
• 39:00
  Speaker 2: you know, being in baseball, owners have a lot of money.
• 39:03
  Speaker 2: They're willing to walk away from one year or two years.
• 39:06
  Speaker 2: They coaching contracts are guarantee. Lets you violate it. They
• 39:09
  Speaker 2: look they'll pay the guy with offset if the guy
• 39:11
  Speaker 2: wants to coach. There's an offset on it. But they're
• 39:13
  Speaker 2: gonna pay a guy not to coach if he can't
• 39:15
  Speaker 2: get a job. But they don't care. They just want
• 39:16
  Speaker 2: to win. Now do they know how to win? That's
• 39:18
  Speaker 2: another roster. Rosters to rings podcast entirely. That could be
• 39:21
  Speaker 2: forty five minutes. But it's the pressure to win, man,
• 39:24
  Speaker 2: it's ridiculous. And then also look at the quarterback position.
• 39:27
  Speaker 2: There's a reason why guys get fired. They either haven't
• 39:29
  Speaker 2: developed them or they don't have one.
• 39:30
  Speaker 1: It's amazing that it's that binary. I just be curious
• 39:33
  Speaker 1: your thoughts. We hear a lot about the Rooney rule,
• 39:35
  Speaker 1: and from your insider perspective, what are the gaps between
• 39:39
  Speaker 1: the league's intention to promote diversity at the GM and
• 39:43
  Speaker 1: a head coaching level and what's actually transpiring on a
• 39:46
  Speaker 1: year to year basis, As we saw ten dow hires
• 39:49
  Speaker 1: this offseason and not a single one of them filled
• 39:52
  Speaker 1: by a black coach.
• 39:53
  Speaker 2: Right, but that you and I could sit down for
• 39:55
  Speaker 2: twenty minutes, okay, if we were having a beer and
• 39:58
  Speaker 2: I could say, here the thirty five to forty minority
• 40:02
  Speaker 2: coaches that I may not know most of them, but
• 40:05
  Speaker 2: I go by what people I trust tell me, Like
• 40:08
  Speaker 2: why is Ron Miless who I've never met before and
• 40:10
  Speaker 2: he's one of the best defensive coaches in the defensive
• 40:13
  Speaker 2: back coaches? Don't know the guy? I never met him,
• 40:16
  Speaker 2: He's apparently great, one of the best d Beck's coaches.
• 40:20
  Speaker 2: Why the hell's he not had a head coaching interview? Like,
• 40:23
  Speaker 2: how's that happen? Why do I know more about this
• 40:25
  Speaker 2: stuff than people work in the league. That should not happen.
• 40:28
  Speaker 2: I know, I could sit down and it could be
• 40:31
  Speaker 2: a wet or black coach doesn't really matter, and whether
• 40:33
  Speaker 2: I have a relationship with a guy is irrelevant. But
• 40:35
  Speaker 2: I could go through and who are the great assistant
• 40:37
  Speaker 2: coaches that nobody knows about. But here's what the guys
• 40:40
  Speaker 2: tell me who work with them. I'm able to look
• 40:43
  Speaker 2: down the middle and remove relationships and go, Okay, here's
• 40:45
  Speaker 2: what I've heard about this guy. This guy's good. This
• 40:47
  Speaker 2: guy he's not great in this area. But why can't
• 40:51
  Speaker 2: NFL owners and team presidents get this information? But you
• 40:54
  Speaker 2: know what it is. This is what guys told me
• 40:56
  Speaker 2: in the league, these committees, and when they get opinions,
• 41:00
  Speaker 2: they I think they get some of the coaches are people
• 41:04
  Speaker 2: they speak with are afraid to criticize, afraid to tell
• 41:06
  Speaker 2: the truth. Get people who are not biased, who are saying, hey, listen,
• 41:11
  Speaker 2: this this guy's really good. Wising not on your list.
• 41:13
  Speaker 2: Do a better job of finding people who wal to
• 41:15
  Speaker 2: tell the truth.
• 41:15
  Speaker 1: That's the issue that the league has, and Adam, we've
• 41:17
  Speaker 1: talked a lot about it on the show that I viewed.
• 41:20
  Speaker 1: In baseball, there are three pillars. It's the owner, it's
• 41:22
  Speaker 1: the lead executive, and it's your manager. And I think
• 41:26
  Speaker 1: that if all three are clicking in all cylinders, you
• 41:28
  Speaker 1: can have sustained success. It sounds like in football you
• 41:31
  Speaker 1: have to add the quarterback to that discussion. But truly,
• 41:34
  Speaker 1: if any of those four falter, my guess is you're
• 41:37
  Speaker 1: you're you're the team's going to falter, and you're going
• 41:40
  Speaker 1: to lead to some more turnover then you'd see otherwise.
• 41:43
  Speaker 2: Yes, and and the synergy I know you were you
• 41:46
  Speaker 2: were kind of talking about it. You don't have to
• 41:48
  Speaker 2: agree on everything, but there's got to be okay, this
• 41:51
  Speaker 2: is this is the way we're going to do our job.
• 41:53
  Speaker 2: You know, you the team president will not be a
• 41:55
  Speaker 2: volpm in football operations. You could sit in in like
• 41:58
  Speaker 2: a coaching it. We could, you could say in some interviews,
• 42:01
  Speaker 2: because the football side does impact the business side, because
• 42:05
  Speaker 2: this side will not do very well if the team's
• 42:07
  Speaker 2: bad all the time. But there's everybody's got to know
• 42:10
  Speaker 2: what their role is. And yes, you sometimes have to
• 42:14
  Speaker 2: ask for help, but you all have to sort of
• 42:16
  Speaker 2: meet in the middle. I mean, I talk about that
• 42:17
  Speaker 2: in life where my wife and I get along. We
• 42:22
  Speaker 2: see from Grandis, Connecticut on for Philly, but we found
• 42:25
  Speaker 2: a way to meet in the middle where our personalities
• 42:27
  Speaker 2: are so different. But that's the joy of life is
• 42:30
  Speaker 2: if you could figure out some way. If you work
• 42:33
  Speaker 2: for an NFL team or MLB team, Oh, this guy's
• 42:36
  Speaker 2: you know, you're very reserved and this guy could be fiery,
• 42:39
  Speaker 2: but you have the common bond. And you said earlier
• 42:41
  Speaker 2: where you went around the room. Yes you're the decision maker,
• 42:46
  Speaker 2: but you don't know it all. You can know it all.
• 42:49
  Speaker 2: That's why you need to ask for help. It's okay.
• 42:51
  Speaker 2: No one should ever look at you as being weak
• 42:54
  Speaker 2: if you ask for help. It's ridiculous. Why shouldn't you
• 42:56
  Speaker 2: ask for help? You can't know everything.
• 42:58
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you're only as good as the recent sources you
• 43:00
  Speaker 1: surround yourself with, in the extent to which you tap
• 43:03
  Speaker 1: into those. You just touch base on the quarterbacks. I
• 43:07
  Speaker 1: just be curious. You've done so much research on injuries
• 43:09
  Speaker 1: in the NFL. I looked at up eleven of the
• 43:12
  Speaker 1: fourteen playoff teams for this year in the NFL played
• 43:15
  Speaker 1: at least sixteen of their seventeen games with their starting quarterback.
• 43:19
  Speaker 1: Do you feel as if the NFL is doing enough
• 43:21
  Speaker 1: to protect a quarterback and similarly, our NFL teams investing
• 43:25
  Speaker 1: enough in backup quarterbacks. As we saw Bo Nicks and
• 43:28
  Speaker 1: even Drake May was a little infirmed. It sounded like
• 43:30
  Speaker 1: going into the Super Bowl, these are the pinnacle games
• 43:35
  Speaker 1: of the season, and unfortunately Denvers without their starting quarterback,
• 43:38
  Speaker 1: and New England maybe went to post with something less
• 43:41
  Speaker 1: than one hundred percent out of Drake May.
• 43:43
  Speaker 2: The big thing for me is the league because of
• 43:45
  Speaker 2: the offseason programs, because of the CBA restricting how much
• 43:49
  Speaker 2: access coaches get have to players and particularly quarterbacks. Guys
• 43:54
  Speaker 2: are coming in from college football being in shotgunspread, there's
• 43:58
  Speaker 2: a lot of differences. They're really not It's just why
• 44:01
  Speaker 2: guys just don't make it. It's hard. It's just really
• 44:04
  Speaker 2: really hard. They need more time to develop these players
• 44:06
  Speaker 2: that it's just I think that's the problem. Off season
• 44:09
  Speaker 2: programs backup quarterbacks. They're like even right now, they're like
• 44:13
  Speaker 2: eight or nine teams that don't know who they're starting. The
• 44:15
  Speaker 2: quarterback is going to be now it'll be south of
• 44:17
  Speaker 2: the freegency and draft. They have to have somebody. They're
• 44:19
  Speaker 2: just not enough. I kind of know where you're going here.
• 44:21
  Speaker 2: There's not a developmental system. It's too bad that the
• 44:24
  Speaker 2: World League of Football folded. It's actually where Kurt Warner,
• 44:27
  Speaker 2: Jake Delane and others really have their really where they
• 44:30
  Speaker 2: started to develop their career. That the league needs that badly.
• 44:33
  Speaker 2: They don't have one right now, that they don't seem
• 44:34
  Speaker 2: to be willing to pay for it. Maybe someday they
• 44:37
  Speaker 2: will be, but the league needs a developmental system in
• 44:39
  Speaker 2: the worst way.
• 44:40
  Speaker 1: It seems noteworthy to me when you see the drop
• 44:43
  Speaker 1: off from the starters to the backups, and it feels
• 44:46
  Speaker 1: like it totally compromises that team's ability when Denver put
• 44:49
  Speaker 1: itself in a position to be in a championship game,
• 44:51
  Speaker 1: but then was really compromised in that situation, and it
• 44:54
  Speaker 1: was really unfortunate to see you get that far and
• 44:57
  Speaker 1: then only to have the competitive landscape shift that dramatically.
• 45:02
  Speaker 1: Is of note, and we've touched on it. We've got
• 45:05
  Speaker 1: to dive into the Philly market. In my experience in sports,
• 45:09
  Speaker 1: people say New York and Boston are two of the
• 45:11
  Speaker 1: toughest markets. I think they pale in comparison to Philadelphia.
• 45:14
  Speaker 1: I think the fans are very passionate and in every
• 45:18
  Speaker 1: aspect of the word, the sports media is very demanding.
• 45:21
  Speaker 1: What is your characterization of the Philly market and what
• 45:24
  Speaker 1: was it like for you and has been like for
• 45:25
  Speaker 1: you to spend most of your career covering sports in Philadelphia?
• 45:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and it's it could be very harsh. I think
• 45:33
  Speaker 2: Philadelphia is one of the reasons why Ron Jerriisky is
• 45:36
  Speaker 2: endeared is because he never complained. He got sacked a lot.
• 45:39
  Speaker 2: He never said, hey man, it's not my fault, it's
• 45:42
  Speaker 2: your fault. It's like why the great Mike Schmidt right
• 45:44
  Speaker 2: best their basement in MLB history. He had a really
• 45:48
  Speaker 2: tough problem with the fans because he would not accept
• 45:51
  Speaker 2: the criticism. What it's like to play here. It's tough, man,
• 45:54
  Speaker 2: It's you know, you went to school at Haverford, like,
• 45:56
  Speaker 2: you know the area, man, you know Philly sports. It's tough.
• 45:59
  Speaker 2: But as long as you take responsibility, don't complain, they're
• 46:02
  Speaker 2: gonna love you. Nick Castiano's on his way out. I
• 46:04
  Speaker 2: mean he said some strange things like you you can't.
• 46:07
  Speaker 2: You got to take responsibility. Man, when when you're not
• 46:09
  Speaker 2: doing well, you're not doing I know you're trying. I
• 46:11
  Speaker 2: get that, we know you're trying, but hey, I got
• 46:14
  Speaker 2: to do better. Like Alec Bohm had to learn the
• 46:17
  Speaker 2: hard way. I don't know if you know his story
• 46:18
  Speaker 2: when he you know, he wanted to get out of there.
• 46:20
  Speaker 2: You know, they made a shirt of it, like he
• 46:22
  Speaker 2: didn't understand Philly. Like, Phil, you what you know you
• 46:25
  Speaker 2: because you went to school here. You know it. You
• 46:26
  Speaker 2: encapsulated Philly. It's tough, man, But they will love you
• 46:30
  Speaker 2: even if you're not doing great. Like the Trey Turner story.
• 46:34
  Speaker 2: They saw Trey really struggling to Trey thanked the fans
• 46:36
  Speaker 2: by having a billboard like that's incredible. That's the part
• 46:40
  Speaker 2: about Philly, which you could most people don't know unless
• 46:42
  Speaker 2: you've lived here. We're connectors, were harsh, We're very outspoken.
• 46:48
  Speaker 2: We're definitely willing to put ourselves out there. We willing
• 46:50
  Speaker 2: to take bleep. You know we're we're out there man.
• 46:52
  Speaker 2: But if you complain, it's not going to be good
• 46:55
  Speaker 2: for you. I'm just gonna it's gonna put tell people
• 46:57
  Speaker 2: as you know, you lived here. You saw it with with.
• 46:59
  Speaker 1: Athletes well, and I think in a general market, I've
• 47:02
  Speaker 1: always felt what fans can't relate to about players is
• 47:05
  Speaker 1: their talent. What they can relate is when they're flawed.
• 47:09
  Speaker 1: And so when you have struggles and when you say
• 47:12
  Speaker 1: this is my fault. This is something I'm working on,
• 47:14
  Speaker 1: This is something I'm accountable to. It endears you amazingly
• 47:18
  Speaker 1: to the fans because they can relate to that. And also,
• 47:20
  Speaker 1: I would say about the on the positive side, for
• 47:22
  Speaker 1: Philadelphia fans, there is no greater home field advantage than
• 47:27
  Speaker 1: in Philadelphia stadiums. It is there's a rabid behavior of
• 47:31
  Speaker 1: the fan base. You learn a lot of colorful words
• 47:33
  Speaker 1: when you go there. At them. Words I didn't use
• 47:36
  Speaker 1: could be used as adjectives, verbs and nouns, but somehow
• 47:40
  Speaker 1: they can be. But there is no doubt when you're
• 47:43
  Speaker 1: in those ballparks those fans feel they are influencing the
• 47:46
  Speaker 1: outcomes of the games. And you hear opposing teams players
• 47:49
  Speaker 1: ones that I've worked with, say, hey, listen, we got
• 47:52
  Speaker 1: to be on point when we go to Philadelphia because otherwise,
• 47:55
  Speaker 1: if you give them an inch, they're going to take
• 47:57
  Speaker 1: a mile in terms of getting under your skin, and
• 47:59
  Speaker 1: it impacts the performance of the guys on the field.
• 48:02
  Speaker 1: And I think that's why people love playing there, if,
• 48:04
  Speaker 1: as you said, they can accept accountability and endear themselves
• 48:08
  Speaker 1: to the fan base.
• 48:09
  Speaker 2: There's no better place than I've traveled a lot of stadiums.
• 48:11
  Speaker 2: Seattle's is very loud, the Super Bowl Champs whatever that's
• 48:15
  Speaker 2: their field is called. It's very loud. Our heads allowed.
• 48:17
  Speaker 2: But this thing, the link is crazy. And then for baseball,
• 48:20
  Speaker 2: Cistens Bank Park, which is across the street from Lincoln
• 48:22
  Speaker 2: Financial Stadium, it's just ridiculous. It's it's so loud. Philly's
• 48:26
  Speaker 2: Park their home field. You saw although they lost a
• 48:28
  Speaker 2: couple of years ago in the World Series. They didn't hit.
• 48:31
  Speaker 2: Philly simply didn't hit. But man, I'd hate if I
• 48:33
  Speaker 2: was a posent player, I could imagine what would be
• 48:36
  Speaker 2: like to play in there.
• 48:37
  Speaker 1: It is absolutely hostile. So give give, give the listeners
• 48:42
  Speaker 1: a scouting report on Howie Roseman. How has he been
• 48:45
  Speaker 1: so successful as the GM of the Philadelphia Eagles for
• 48:49
  Speaker 1: so long?
• 48:49
  Speaker 2: Fearless? I mean, he's a tireless worker. I love talking
• 48:53
  Speaker 2: to other general managers and hearing their stories about Howie.
• 48:56
  Speaker 2: It's comical. He's just He's Howie. He's uh got in
• 49:00
  Speaker 2: incredible passion, fear of failure. I give him credit for
• 49:04
  Speaker 2: going through that thing he did when he was reassigned.
• 49:06
  Speaker 2: He was fired, he was reassigned, and I give him credit.
• 49:10
  Speaker 2: He came back better, not perfect. He's flawed. I mean,
• 49:12
  Speaker 2: we're all flawed. He's got every game's got some flaws.
• 49:15
  Speaker 2: But for a non football person growing up, you know,
• 49:17
  Speaker 2: he didn't play football to become a good tape watch.
• 49:20
  Speaker 2: I've talked to guys, even guys who didn't really like
• 49:22
  Speaker 2: how he particularly well, you know, they left some of
• 49:24
  Speaker 2: the stuff's been documented. I guess these guy's point black.
• 49:26
  Speaker 2: You know, it became a good evaluator. You're not always
• 49:29
  Speaker 2: going to agree on stuff when you work with people
• 49:31
  Speaker 2: like he's different. They're different. But he became arguably the
• 49:33
  Speaker 2: NFL's best jay On the manager because he's relentless and
• 49:36
  Speaker 2: he knew he had to learn what he didn't know.
• 49:38
  Speaker 2: And I'm sure you went through that. I know you played,
• 49:40
  Speaker 2: but there's a lot How he was in twenty ten
• 49:43
  Speaker 2: was his first year. How he's around fifty now, so
• 49:45
  Speaker 2: he's maybe thirty three or thirty four. Again, he didn't
• 49:48
  Speaker 2: grow up in the game. The hell could he know?
• 49:49
  Speaker 2: I don't know how, you know? I would love to know.
• 49:52
  Speaker 2: I don't know if I ever asked in this, but
• 49:53
  Speaker 2: I know he had Tom Hecker, Andy Joe Banner, who
• 49:57
  Speaker 2: basically hired him. These guys mentioned toward, but you still
• 50:01
  Speaker 2: got to learn on your own, man, and he's obviously
• 50:03
  Speaker 2: learned from a lot of things that didn't go on.
• 50:04
  Speaker 1: You know, Adam, you referenced a time when he was reassigned,
• 50:07
  Speaker 1: and what the listeners may not know is during that
• 50:09
  Speaker 1: time he actually took a sabbatical from the Eagles and
• 50:13
  Speaker 1: traveled the world to understand best practices in all of sports.
• 50:18
  Speaker 1: He visited us in Texas during that year. I went
• 50:20
  Speaker 1: to dinner with with Howie and John Daniels. He picked
• 50:23
  Speaker 1: our brains. That was the first time I got to
• 50:25
  Speaker 1: meet him in person. And what a voracious learner he is.
• 50:29
  Speaker 1: He's just it was a tireless evening of just, you know,
• 50:32
  Speaker 1: great conversation. I was curious. So he comes back from
• 50:36
  Speaker 1: that and in the NFC East, which is one of
• 50:38
  Speaker 1: the most vaunted divisions, they've been in first or second
• 50:41
  Speaker 1: place eight of the ten years since he returned from
• 50:44
  Speaker 1: his sabbatical. Did he has he ever shared with you
• 50:46
  Speaker 1: anything he learned from that time away from the Eagles
• 50:49
  Speaker 1: and time away from being in the big chair.
• 50:51
  Speaker 2: I know that he's been public about this. I know
• 50:54
  Speaker 2: he had a journal. I think he wrote stuff down
• 50:56
  Speaker 2: I didn't even know that he saw you guys. Wow,
• 50:58
  Speaker 2: I didn't I know I saw rcbu for the Spurs GM.
• 51:01
  Speaker 2: I know he he smartly. I wonder. I don't know
• 51:05
  Speaker 2: who gave him the idea, because he all he could
• 51:07
  Speaker 2: do is do contracts and he I think the press release,
• 51:10
  Speaker 2: I remember getting it and like being blown away. But
• 51:12
  Speaker 2: I was actually hosting a show on ESPN Radio and
• 51:15
  Speaker 2: the press release came out and I had to process it.
• 51:16
  Speaker 2: I'm like, what the hell? Like what they reassign him?
• 51:19
  Speaker 2: But what I want to mention, why is he so successful?
• 51:23
  Speaker 2: An understanding owner Jeffrey Lorie, who's arguably the best NFL
• 51:27
  Speaker 2: owner to support how he throw all his struggles, is
• 51:30
  Speaker 2: to have him and to help him be great. What
• 51:35
  Speaker 2: does Nick Sirianni say? No, one's great without the greatness
• 51:38
  Speaker 2: of others. You need it, You need need people who
• 51:41
  Speaker 2: are in your corner. Howie, Look, he struggled, you know,
• 51:45
  Speaker 2: he definitely did. Now when he came out of it,
• 51:47
  Speaker 2: you clearly learned he orchestrated that Carson the deal to
• 51:49
  Speaker 2: get up to get Carson Wentz. It was brilliant, you know,
• 51:53
  Speaker 2: for a year and a half. Unfortunately got hurt and
• 51:54
  Speaker 2: then to long another that's at thirty for thirty. Jeffrey
• 51:57
  Speaker 2: loves football. He's got He's just a great owner I've
• 52:00
  Speaker 2: been to. The honest means, I've been around a lot
• 52:02
  Speaker 2: of owners privately, no offense to the other ones. I mean,
• 52:04
  Speaker 2: there's some really good ones, but Jeffrey's relentlessness of understanding data,
• 52:09
  Speaker 2: quarterback position, and loving football. Like a lot of owners,
• 52:13
  Speaker 2: they just want owned own because it's like a toy
• 52:15
  Speaker 2: for them. It's not man, he's I've talked to countless
• 52:19
  Speaker 2: coaches have coached in that building, and they love his passion.
• 52:22
  Speaker 2: They know by the way, they know they better have
• 52:24
  Speaker 2: a great offense or they're not going to last very long.
• 52:26
  Speaker 2: That's just the deal. When you coach on Philly for
• 52:28
  Speaker 2: that football team.
• 52:29
  Speaker 1: You know, Adam, the best owners I've been around have
• 52:32
  Speaker 1: been excellent executive advisors and don't insist on being the
• 52:37
  Speaker 1: executive decision maker. And it's a distinction that I think
• 52:41
  Speaker 1: is important when they as you referenced earlier, you said
• 52:44
  Speaker 1: it throughout this interview, this notion of surrounding yourself with
• 52:47
  Speaker 1: excellent people. John Hart used to always say, higher people
• 52:50
  Speaker 1: are smarter than you are. You'll have the best resources
• 52:53
  Speaker 1: in the game and then learn how to tap into them.
• 52:55
  Speaker 1: I think if owners kind of take that council too,
• 52:57
  Speaker 1: they should be in their room, they should be weighing
• 52:59
  Speaker 1: in on decision, and they should be influencing outcomes. But
• 53:02
  Speaker 1: if you can yield to the people in the room
• 53:04
  Speaker 1: who are truly experts in the field, it seems as
• 53:06
  Speaker 1: if those are the best symbiotic relationships that last long,
• 53:10
  Speaker 1: long and also lend themselves to sustained winning at the
• 53:14
  Speaker 1: highest levels.
• 53:15
  Speaker 2: Because you have to also have to know trends, as
• 53:17
  Speaker 2: you know where's the game going. And I remember Joe
• 53:20
  Speaker 2: Banner telling me that when we worked at ESPN together,
• 53:23
  Speaker 2: we got to know each other. And I cannot understand
• 53:24
  Speaker 2: why they wanted to throw the ball a lot. It
• 53:26
  Speaker 2: really annoyed me. Grew up here in this market. I
• 53:28
  Speaker 2: just didn't understand what Joe said they did if they
• 53:31
  Speaker 2: commissioned a study with Mit and the Bill Walsh philosophy,
• 53:35
  Speaker 2: as you always throw early the score and you run late,
• 53:38
  Speaker 2: you get the lead, and then you take the ball
• 53:40
  Speaker 2: out of the quarterback's hands hopefully I have a couple of
• 53:42
  Speaker 2: touchdown lead. I didn't see the point of it, like
• 53:45
  Speaker 2: it would draw me up a wallad when Donald McNabb
• 53:47
  Speaker 2: would throw the worm burners into the ground when he
• 53:49
  Speaker 2: was struggling with his accuracy, like, run the damn football.
• 53:52
  Speaker 2: You have a choice of the runner pass, stop throwing
• 53:55
  Speaker 2: it if the guy. But Joe told me, you don't
• 53:57
  Speaker 2: understand over time. Yes, it doesn't look good right now,
• 54:01
  Speaker 2: and he bought into this philosophy over time, going back
• 54:05
  Speaker 2: to the sixties. If you throw more than you win,
• 54:07
  Speaker 2: you run it, you're going to win more than you lose.
• 54:09
  Speaker 2: It's just you can't really challenge it because you can't
• 54:11
  Speaker 2: challenge facts. And Joe completely changed my mind. Although look Philly,
• 54:14
  Speaker 2: who of all teams became a running team who knew
• 54:17
  Speaker 2: with tek Howie, I give him credits. Another thing I
• 54:19
  Speaker 2: give him credit for I have a shot that he
• 54:21
  Speaker 2: did that. I am constantly amazed at how this is
• 54:23
  Speaker 2: this And then the running game has kind of come
• 54:26
  Speaker 2: back a little bit the last couple of years. But
• 54:28
  Speaker 2: it's a passing league. Man. You could say, whatever the
• 54:30
  Speaker 2: data shows it. There are, yes, are exceptions to everything,
• 54:34
  Speaker 2: but the data shows it. Man, over time, you got
• 54:37
  Speaker 2: to throw the football.
• 54:37
  Speaker 1: You know, Baseball gets vilified for the notion that we
• 54:41
  Speaker 1: have a lot of hitters who are you know, either
• 54:43
  Speaker 1: striking out hit or hitting home runs or walking the
• 54:46
  Speaker 1: realities that's a fast ways or score a run? Is
• 54:48
  Speaker 1: stay hit a home run? But we weren't. We were
• 54:50
  Speaker 1: inspired by the NFL. It was the NFL that shifted
• 54:54
  Speaker 1: from the run game to the pass game, because that's
• 54:56
  Speaker 1: how you gain more yards. It was the NBA that
• 54:58
  Speaker 1: shifted from the two pointer to three pointer. We actually
• 55:01
  Speaker 1: trailed behind them somehow. We are in the crosshairs of
• 55:03
  Speaker 1: all that. But we're learning as we go from all
• 55:07
  Speaker 1: these other industries. And we'd be remissing not asking you
• 55:10
  Speaker 1: while you're on the air with us, what's your assessment
• 55:12
  Speaker 1: of the NFL Hall of Fame process and what should
• 55:16
  Speaker 1: we make of the fact that Bill Belichick and Robert
• 55:18
  Speaker 1: Kraft are yet to be elected to be in the
• 55:21
  Speaker 1: Hall of Fame.
• 55:22
  Speaker 2: All Right, so I'm a voter for Pro Football Roers Association,
• 55:24
  Speaker 2: that's the second most important word for players and coaches.
• 55:28
  Speaker 2: But I don't get to vote for the Hall of Fame.
• 55:30
  Speaker 2: Though I was at Bill Paul and Jerome Bettis's injunction
• 55:32
  Speaker 2: in twenty fifteen, I think it was I cannot believe
• 55:37
  Speaker 2: I kind of lived the flake Gate. I was on
• 55:39
  Speaker 2: the air at ESPN when it happened, so I know
• 55:41
  Speaker 2: how the league was upset. Well, Bill had nothing to
• 55:43
  Speaker 2: do with it. It was Braton, a Brady issue. I'm
• 55:46
  Speaker 2: sorry some of these old school writers can't get over
• 55:49
  Speaker 2: the fact about Spygate. There was a rumor back then,
• 55:52
  Speaker 2: which I'm sure was true, that it wasn't just the Patriots.
• 55:55
  Speaker 2: There are other teams doing stuff like this. So what's
• 55:57
  Speaker 2: my opinion? If I had a vote, I'd voting for him.
• 55:59
  Speaker 2: He's in. He's the best. Look. I had my issues
• 56:01
  Speaker 2: with Belichick late and his tenure, like having Matt Patricia
• 56:05
  Speaker 2: call plays and having Joe Joe by a quarterbacks coach
• 56:07
  Speaker 2: like that. That was wrong. But he's brilliant. It'sat he's
• 56:10
  Speaker 2: the best coach in my time covering the league. People
• 56:12
  Speaker 2: don't want to give him credit for being Ford, thinking
• 56:15
  Speaker 2: he was big on eleven personnel, which is three receivers
• 56:17
  Speaker 2: when back in one ten and he was really the
• 56:18
  Speaker 2: first person to say this is the trend that the
• 56:21
  Speaker 2: advantages and matchups like I remember hearing that from their building,
• 56:25
  Speaker 2: like blown away because you didn't look at fad you
• 56:27
  Speaker 2: didn't look at Bill like that, but he was so
• 56:29
  Speaker 2: forward thinking his father, Steve, going back to the Naval Academy,
• 56:33
  Speaker 2: I know Bill would look at tapes from like the
• 56:35
  Speaker 2: sixties and use stuff. He would take tape from games
• 56:38
  Speaker 2: in the seventies, like Bill's brilliant. To answer your question,
• 56:40
  Speaker 2: Robert Craft, he deserves to be Look if Jerry Jones
• 56:43
  Speaker 2: is in there, why the hell's Robert Craft got in there.
• 56:46
  Speaker 2: Jerry Jones is a maverick with NFL properties. I used
• 56:48
  Speaker 2: to be in their power of business long before this,
• 56:50
  Speaker 2: So Jerry was definitely instrumental in certain things. But Robert
• 56:53
  Speaker 2: Kraft and one Patriots Place, if you've never been there,
• 56:56
  Speaker 2: it's a shopping it just he was one of the
• 56:58
  Speaker 2: first guys to actually see that more in football, Jerry
• 57:01
  Speaker 2: did it too. He should get in to move this along.
• 57:04
  Speaker 2: He absolutly should get in it at some point.
• 57:06
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and I think there's something to be said for
• 57:08
  Speaker 1: in sports this notion of a first ballot Hall of
• 57:11
  Speaker 1: Famer versus somebody who gets in over time. I fully
• 57:14
  Speaker 1: expect both of those men to get in. It's hard
• 57:16
  Speaker 1: to keep them out. The owner with the most Super
• 57:19
  Speaker 1: Bowl rings, the head coach with the most Super Bowl rings,
• 57:22
  Speaker 1: they'll be part of it at some point. It just
• 57:24
  Speaker 1: speaks to the human nature and the flawed system that
• 57:28
  Speaker 1: are all these Hall of Fame like we've become so empirical,
• 57:31
  Speaker 1: so data driven, but this is one area where subjectivity
• 57:34
  Speaker 1: matters and how you treated people does matter. Some guys
• 57:37
  Speaker 1: who are first ballot Hall of Famers. I got a
• 57:40
  Speaker 1: chance to work with Joe Mauer over the last couple
• 57:42
  Speaker 1: of years of his career. No one was more respected
• 57:44
  Speaker 1: than Joe. He was a no doubt first ballot Hall
• 57:46
  Speaker 1: of Famer because he was a first ballot Hall of
• 57:48
  Speaker 1: Fame person as well as a player. Those things do
• 57:51
  Speaker 1: matter in these cases. I think the further we get
• 57:53
  Speaker 1: away from to flight Gate and Spygate, they'll ultimately get in.
• 57:58
  Speaker 1: It will be just a matter of time. But I
• 58:00
  Speaker 1: just want to say thank you so much Adam for
• 58:02
  Speaker 1: your generosity, your time, your wisdom that you shared with
• 58:05
  Speaker 1: us today. Please join us this Thursday and every Thursday
• 58:09
  Speaker 1: on Rosters to Rings