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“Cleanup on Heil 12!” · Pod Save America

• 0:20
  Speaker 1: Welcome to Pod Save America. I'm Jon Favreau.
• 0:22
  Speaker 2: I'm Dan Pfeiffer.
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: Here we are, Dan, in our nation's capital together.
• 0:25
  Speaker 2: It's like we never left.
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: It's like we never left. On today's show... Republican leaders
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: struggle to respond to Trump's Nazi dinner. Congress passes a
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: law to protect same-sex marriage as Washington gears up for
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: a busy lame duck session. The GOP conducts a midterm
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: autopsy and later went to the White House to talk
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: to Chief of Staff Ron Klain about Joe Biden's plans
• 0:44
  Speaker 1: for 2023, Twitter, Trump, and the World Cup. It's a
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: wide-ranging interview with Ron. But first, check out Crooked Media's
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: newest podcast, Work Appropriate, where author and host Anne Helen
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: Peterson sets out to find solutions to everyday workplace problems.
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: whether you work in an office chair or a sixth
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: grade classroom. Listen to Work Appropriate now wherever you get
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: your podcasts. New episodes drop every Wednesday. Also, it's runoff
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: time in Georgia. Election Day is Tuesday. If you're a
• 1:10
  Speaker 1: Georgia voter, head over to votesaveamerica.com to make your plan.
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: And if you want to help out no matter where
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: you live, you can donate and find remote and in-person
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: volunteer opportunities to make sure the Warnock campaign has the
• 1:20
  Speaker 1: resources it needs to win. All right, let's get to
• 1:23
  Speaker 1: the news and kick things off with an update on
• 1:25
  Speaker 1: the meal that Donald Trump shared with Anti-Semitic rapper Kanye
• 1:29
  Speaker 1: West and white supremacist Nick Fuentes, also known as Dine Kempf.
• 1:36
  Speaker 2: Do we know what they ate? Has that been revealed?
• 1:38
  Speaker 1: Wow. Maybe we need some reporting on that. Maybe you
• 1:43
  Speaker 1: can break that story down.
• 1:44
  Speaker 2: I'm not really a reporter per se, but maybe people
• 1:46
  Speaker 2: I follow on Twitter can do it.
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: Yeah, we should give, of course, Crooked Media's own Sarah
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: Lazarus credit for the title.
• 1:53
  Speaker 2: And all primarily all funny things that.
• 1:55
  Speaker 1: You hear on this pod. After days of trying to
• 1:58
  Speaker 1: avoid questions on the topic, Republican politicians were finally forced
• 2:02
  Speaker 1: to respond. And here's what the party's two congressional leaders said.
• 2:05
  Speaker 3: First, let me just say that there is no room
• 2:09
  Speaker 3: in the Republican Party for anti-Semitism or white supremacy. And
• 2:16
  Speaker 3: anyone meeting with people advocating that point of view, in
• 2:21
  Speaker 3: my judgment, are highly unlikely to ever be elected president
• 2:27
  Speaker 3: of the United States.
• 2:28
  Speaker 2: I don't think anybody should be spending any time with
• 2:31
  Speaker 2: Nick Fuentes. He has no place in this Republican Party.
• 2:34
  Speaker 2: I think President Trump came out four times and condemned
• 2:38
  Speaker 2: him and didn't know who he was. Well, he just
• 2:41
  Speaker 2: said he didn't know who he was.
• 2:42
  Speaker 1: He didn't condemn him or his ideology.
• 2:43
  Speaker 2: Well, I condemn his ideology. It has no place in society.
• 2:47
  Speaker 1: And what about the.
• 2:47
  Speaker 4: Former president for deciding to have that dinner?
• 2:51
  Speaker 2: The president didn't know who he was.
• 2:53
  Speaker 1: So that was Mitch McConnell and Kevin McCarthy. What do
• 2:56
  Speaker 1: you make of the timing and the difference in tone
• 2:59
  Speaker 1: between the two responses?
• 3:03
  Speaker 2: Well, the timing is these people were actually forced to
• 3:06
  Speaker 2: speak to reporters because Congress is back. They could no
• 3:09
  Speaker 2: longer just ignore their phone, not respond to texts from
• 3:13
  Speaker 2: their press secretary. They had to actually appear in public
• 3:18
  Speaker 2: and answer questions. The differences between the two are Mitch
• 3:21
  Speaker 2: McConnell has his job. And Kevin McCarthy doesn't. And Kevin
• 3:25
  Speaker 2: McCarthy needs people who pal around with Nick Fuentes to
• 3:28
  Speaker 2: vote for him to be speaker. When you really get
• 3:32
  Speaker 2: down to it, as you guys talked about last week,
• 3:34
  Speaker 2: but as it currently stands, the vote for speaker is
• 3:37
  Speaker 2: going to be early next year when Congress reconvenes. McCarthy
• 3:40
  Speaker 2: does not yet have the votes. One of his key
• 3:43
  Speaker 2: supporters who is holding it together for him is Marjorie
• 3:47
  Speaker 2: Taylor Greene, who was kicked off her committees for attending
• 3:50
  Speaker 2: a conference with Nick Fuentes.
• 3:54
  Speaker 1: Not to defend Marjorie Taylor Greene, and I have to
• 3:56
  Speaker 1: be careful what I say here because Elijah will clip
• 3:58
  Speaker 1: me out of context. But I don't know if you
• 4:02
  Speaker 1: saw the Washington Post story on this brouhaha. And it
• 4:06
  Speaker 1: has Marjorie Taylor Greene saying that after she appeared with
• 4:10
  Speaker 1: Nick Fuentes at this event, someone showed her things that
• 4:14
  Speaker 1: he had said, and she was horrified and thinks that
• 4:16
  Speaker 1: no one should ever be hanging out with Nick Fuentes.
• 4:19
  Speaker 1: Even Marjorie Taylor Greene. is now ahead of Trump on
• 4:23
  Speaker 1: this issue.
• 4:25
  Speaker 2: Sure. Like, if we're going to put aside all the
• 4:29
  Speaker 2: other anti-Semitic things, Marjorie Taylor Greene has done.
• 4:31
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm not giving her any credit. I'm just saying
• 4:33
  Speaker 1: that's how bad Donald Trump is.
• 4:34
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and I mean, also, we have lost the thread, people.
• 4:39
  Speaker 2: I don't, the problem, Nick Fuentes is a problem for sure.
• 4:43
  Speaker 2: But let's say the dinner party had just been Donald
• 4:45
  Speaker 2: Trump and Kanye West. It should be just as big
• 4:49
  Speaker 2: a problem.
• 4:50
  Speaker 1: Well, especially because right before... Breaking news! Right before we
• 4:53
  Speaker 1: started recording today, we got it in under the wire, Dan.
• 4:56
  Speaker 1: Kanye West is on Alex Jones' program.
• 4:58
  Speaker 2: Okay, stop. Problem. That's right there. Nothing that comes after
• 5:02
  Speaker 2: that sentence is ever good.
• 5:04
  Speaker 1: A wonderful family program. And they're talking, as they do
• 5:07
  Speaker 1: on that show. And at one point, Alex Jones says,
• 5:10
  Speaker 1: you're not Hitler, you're not a Nazi. And I don't
• 5:13
  Speaker 1: even know what the context was for that, but that's...
• 5:15
  Speaker 1: Kanye West responds, well... I see good things about Hitler also.
• 5:20
  Speaker 1: Every human being has value that they brought to the table,
• 5:23
  Speaker 1: especially Hitler. Especially, not like even Hitler, especially Hitler. So
• 5:29
  Speaker 1: now we're getting into, anytime you're talking about Hitler, I'm just,
• 5:31
  Speaker 1: it's never, it's never going to go away.
• 5:33
  Speaker 2: Look, Kanye's a glass half full kind of guy. That's
• 5:35
  Speaker 2: how we get here. But yes, that's all bad. That
• 5:38
  Speaker 2: is very true. But even before that, Kanye West said
• 5:42
  Speaker 2: horribly anti-Semitic things. All of his sponsors dropped him a
• 5:45
  Speaker 2: great financial cost to themselves. He was a pariah in society,
• 5:49
  Speaker 2: and he was able to bring a plus one to
• 5:51
  Speaker 2: a dinner with the former president of the United States.
• 5:54
  Speaker 2: The Nick Puente thing is almost a distraction here, because
• 5:57
  Speaker 2: Kanye is just bad enough. Like, people who die with Kanye.
• 6:00
  Speaker 1: It's tough when the Nazi is a distraction.
• 6:01
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, he's... Yeah, I mean.
• 6:04
  Speaker 1: I mean, that same Washington Post piece said that aides
• 6:07
  Speaker 1: had been trying to convince Trump up to the moment
• 6:09
  Speaker 1: of the dinner to not have the dinner with Kanye
• 6:12
  Speaker 1: because of all the anti-Semitic things he said, and Trump
• 6:14
  Speaker 1: basically said, well, he's always been nice to me. That
• 6:19
  Speaker 1: was his, he's always been nice to me. And they
• 6:21
  Speaker 1: said that basically Trump just doesn't ever want to denounce
• 6:25
  Speaker 1: people who support him, which is just everything you need
• 6:29
  Speaker 1: to know about Trump.
• 6:30
  Speaker 2: In fact, he may want to pardon some of them.
• 6:31
  Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly. So McCarthy still needs Trump and he needs
• 6:35
  Speaker 1: all the Trumpy people in the house to make him speaker.
• 6:39
  Speaker 1: McConnell doesn't need that as much, but you know, before
• 6:42
  Speaker 1: we welcome Mitch to the resistance, as we've done a
• 6:44
  Speaker 1: few times already, I think.
• 6:46
  Speaker 2: I have not. Very clear.
• 6:49
  Speaker 1: You're more of a Romney guy. Here's what Mitch said
• 6:52
  Speaker 1: to a follow-up question about Trump in 2024. If Donald
• 6:56
  Speaker 1: Trump wins the Republican nomination, would you support him?
• 7:00
  Speaker 3: Look, let me just say again, there is simply no
• 7:04
  Speaker 3: room in the Republican Party for anti-Semitism or white supremacy.
• 7:10
  Speaker 3: And that would apply to all of the leaders in
• 7:12
  Speaker 3: the party who will be seeking offices.
• 7:16
  Speaker 1: I mean, it sort of tells you everything you need
• 7:17
  Speaker 1: to know that Mitch McConnell can't rule out supporting the
• 7:22
  Speaker 1: guy who dined with a Nazi if the alternative is
• 7:26
  Speaker 1: four more years of Joe Biden.
• 7:30
  Speaker 2: It gets to the core of modern republicanism, which is
• 7:37
  Speaker 2: power at all costs. Nothing else matters. And Mitch McConnell,
• 7:41
  Speaker 2: whether he likes it or not, would rather have an
• 7:42
  Speaker 2: anti-Semite in the White House to appoint conservative judges than
• 7:45
  Speaker 2: Joe Biden.
• 7:46
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 7:47
  Speaker 2: And that's it. And he's wrong about his party. There
• 7:51
  Speaker 2: is clearly room. There is a wide lane for people
• 7:55
  Speaker 2: who pal around with anti-Semites. In fact, it may be,
• 7:59
  Speaker 2: at least with some of the hardcore base, there is
• 8:01
  Speaker 2: more room for people like Nick Fuentes and people who
• 8:04
  Speaker 2: are dying with Nick Fuentes than the establishment Republicans who
• 8:08
  Speaker 2: want to cut Social Security to pay for tax cuts
• 8:10
  Speaker 2: for big oil companies.
• 8:12
  Speaker 1: Yeah. No, that's fairly clear. And I'd also take issue
• 8:16
  Speaker 1: with McConnell saying someone who dines with Nick Fuentes is
• 8:19
  Speaker 1: unlikely to be elected president. I hope not, but we
• 8:23
  Speaker 1: already saw Donald Trump elected once.
• 8:26
  Speaker 2: Also, Mitch McConnell is a professional politician. He's been in
• 8:30
  Speaker 2: public life for 50 years. How can he not answer
• 8:34
  Speaker 2: a follow-up question without melting on camera?
• 8:38
  Speaker 1: He just he knows he doesn't want Donald Trump to
• 8:41
  Speaker 1: be president again, but he knows if he says no
• 8:43
  Speaker 1: and splits himself from Donald Trump this early on, he
• 8:47
  Speaker 1: doesn't have an out later if Trump wins the nomination
• 8:50
  Speaker 1: and then he has to get on board because he
• 8:51
  Speaker 1: doesn't get on board. Like you said, that hurts his chances,
• 8:54
  Speaker 1: the Senate's chances of, you know. confirming conservative judges and
• 8:59
  Speaker 1: cutting taxes.
• 8:59
  Speaker 2: Yeah, he knew that going into that press conference. And
• 9:01
  Speaker 2: so maybe just spend like five fucking seconds to think
• 9:04
  Speaker 2: of an answer. Like, I'm not going to answer hypotheticals.
• 9:06
  Speaker 1: Yeah, no.
• 9:06
  Speaker 2: Like, he's a doofus. His press secretary is a doofus.
• 9:08
  Speaker 2: All of them. It's not that hard.
• 9:10
  Speaker 1: So Trump, who is responsible for Republicans losing the last
• 9:14
  Speaker 1: three elections in a row, responded to McConnell's statement by
• 9:16
  Speaker 1: calling him, quote, a loser for our nation and for
• 9:20
  Speaker 1: the Republican Party. He then said of Fuentes, quote, I
• 9:23
  Speaker 1: had never heard of the man. I had no idea
• 9:25
  Speaker 1: what his views were, and they weren't expressed at the
• 9:28
  Speaker 1: table in our very quick dinner, or it wouldn't have
• 9:31
  Speaker 1: been accepted. So Maggie Haberman reported that Trump's statement was
• 9:35
  Speaker 1: a version of what his advisors have been trying to
• 9:38
  Speaker 1: get him to say.
• 9:38
  Speaker 2: I assume the latter, not the former part.
• 9:41
  Speaker 1: So mission accomplished, I guess. So what happens now? Does
• 9:45
  Speaker 1: everyone just move on from here, or what? How do
• 9:47
  Speaker 1: we make sure DynKampf isn't memory-holed like so many other
• 9:53
  Speaker 1: Trump controversies.
• 9:55
  Speaker 2: This is probably the final piece of evidence we ever
• 9:57
  Speaker 2: needed that Donald Trump listens to our podcast. Because he
• 10:01
  Speaker 2: is doing the thing to Mitch McConnell that we've been
• 10:03
  Speaker 2: telling Mitch McConnell to do to Trump. And I worked
• 10:06
  Speaker 2: with a guy once who, when I was on the
• 10:07
  Speaker 2: Gore campaign, who used to do a lot of cable
• 10:11
  Speaker 2: TV debates with the Bush campaign. And his trick was
• 10:15
  Speaker 2: always to start with the Bush campaign's talking point. And
• 10:18
  Speaker 2: just totally confuse them. And I think that's what Donald
• 10:20
  Speaker 2: Trump is doing here to Mitch McConnell. He's getting ahead
• 10:22
  Speaker 2: of the loser argument. I mean, it's going to get
• 10:25
  Speaker 2: memory old. I hate to say it, but it is
• 10:27
  Speaker 2: going to get memory old. I was even just in
• 10:29
  Speaker 2: the process of preparing for this podcast reading other low
• 10:32
  Speaker 2: moments for Trump. And you like forget some of them.
• 10:34
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 10:35
  Speaker 2: Just the absolute.
• 10:36
  Speaker 1: I mean, some of them. Look, I think very fine
• 10:39
  Speaker 1: people on both sides is one that had some staying power.
• 10:43
  Speaker 2: Like, it didn't... Define staying power. Did you remember it?
• 10:45
  Speaker 1: Did it hurt him? When you think of, like, top
• 10:47
  Speaker 1: worst things about Trump, right? What do we think about?
• 10:49
  Speaker 1: Very fine people on both sides. They're not sending their best.
• 10:53
  Speaker 1: You know, that whole... You know, the announcement speech.
• 10:55
  Speaker 2: Sending the violent mob to murder Mike Pence.
• 10:58
  Speaker 1: Is high on the list. Yeah, well, that's always... You'll
• 10:59
  Speaker 1: remember that. Greatest hits. Could this end up in the
• 11:02
  Speaker 1: greatest hits file? I don't know. Like, he's now running
• 11:04
  Speaker 1: a presidential campaign again. I think... Every Democrat from now
• 11:09
  Speaker 1: until the end of 2024 should be saying, like, Donald
• 11:12
  Speaker 1: Trump launched his campaign for president by having dinner with
• 11:16
  Speaker 1: a Nazi. It's a pretty easy.
• 11:18
  Speaker 2: It's such a funny.
• 11:20
  Speaker 1: It happens to be true.
• 11:22
  Speaker 2: With Kanye West.
• 11:23
  Speaker 1: With, yeah.
• 11:24
  Speaker 2: With two Nazis, including Kanye West. Because the Kanye West
• 11:27
  Speaker 2: part really just, like, hammers home the absurdity of the
• 11:30
  Speaker 2: whole thing. This is a thing that I wrestle with
• 11:35
  Speaker 2: when it comes to how we talk about Trump. because
• 11:38
  Speaker 2: we are right back into the same problem we had
• 11:43
  Speaker 2: from 2015 to 2021, which is Donald Trump sucks up
• 11:48
  Speaker 2: all the oxygen. He is so outrageous, so terrible, and
• 11:52
  Speaker 2: so worthy of our condemnation and criticism of political attacks
• 11:55
  Speaker 2: that other Republicans just walk around doing terrible shit without
• 11:59
  Speaker 2: facing any consequences. And so, and with, And what I
• 12:04
  Speaker 2: think one of the reasons for our success in the
• 12:06
  Speaker 2: 2022 election is we didn't talk about Trump. We talked
• 12:09
  Speaker 2: about Trumpism using the term MAGA extremism or MAGA Republicans
• 12:13
  Speaker 2: to talk about it. And is there a way, and
• 12:17
  Speaker 2: I think we should think about this up until the
• 12:19
  Speaker 2: moment Trump is the nominee, is how do we talk
• 12:22
  Speaker 2: about Trump in a way that undergirds the message we
• 12:26
  Speaker 2: want to do about Republicans writ large, including Trump?
• 12:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Right.
• 12:29
  Speaker 2: Is it they're standing with a guy who did this?
• 12:31
  Speaker 2: They refuse to condemn him. This is another example of extremism,
• 12:34
  Speaker 2: another example of the dangerous elements within the party. But
• 12:38
  Speaker 2: there is this real fear that, you know, we're going
• 12:42
  Speaker 2: to talk about this in a minute, but Republicans just
• 12:44
  Speaker 2: took the incredibly improper positions on marriage equality. They're trying
• 12:47
  Speaker 2: to blow up the economy or Social Security. And no
• 12:49
  Speaker 2: one's going to know any about that because of Trump
• 12:51
  Speaker 2: dines with Nazi rappers.
• 12:52
  Speaker 1: Yeah, though I think that's a pretty damning allegation.
• 12:57
  Speaker 2: It's hard because we don't know that we're going to
• 12:58
  Speaker 2: be facing him, right?
• 12:59
  Speaker 1: I don't think this is like, you know, he stood
• 13:03
  Speaker 1: next to Putin in Helsinki and he said nice things
• 13:05
  Speaker 1: about Putin, right? It's like, I think this is this
• 13:09
  Speaker 1: gets to the, I mean, it does fit in with
• 13:11
  Speaker 1: the extremism frame, right? Like, I don't think we have
• 13:13
  Speaker 1: to make this like, oh, he dined with a Nazi
• 13:15
  Speaker 1: who wants to give tax cuts to the wealthy and
• 13:17
  Speaker 1: gut Medicare.
• 13:19
  Speaker 2: The Nazis have always opposed Medicare. Trump opposes Medicare.
• 13:23
  Speaker 1: And that's the real problem. The real problem. No, I
• 13:27
  Speaker 1: think that this one is, and I think, but you're
• 13:29
  Speaker 1: right though, you can't just make this about Trump and
• 13:31
  Speaker 1: then split him from the Republican Party because all, look,
• 13:35
  Speaker 1: the people who, in the Republican Party, the few people
• 13:37
  Speaker 1: who have condemned Trump for this. I mean, I guess
• 13:40
  Speaker 1: Mike Pence also demanded that, not demanded, but said that
• 13:43
  Speaker 1: Trump should apologize.
• 13:44
  Speaker 2: Mike Pence has never demanded anything in his life.
• 13:46
  Speaker 1: Imagine like, oh, he should apologize. Yeah. Okay. That's going
• 13:49
  Speaker 1: to do it. I'm sorry I had dinner with the Nazis. Yeah.
• 13:51
  Speaker 2: He should levitate above the earth. Those are equally likely things.
• 13:55
  Speaker 1: But there are a number of people in the party,
• 13:58
  Speaker 1: most of the politicians in the party who have refused
• 14:00
  Speaker 1: to condemn Trump for this. And I think you hang
• 14:02
  Speaker 1: that around their neck. Like you don't let them forget that.
• 14:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that's right.
• 14:05
  Speaker 1: I think you kind of have to. But this is
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: an easy one for people to understand. This is my point.
• 14:10
  Speaker 1: It's like Nick Fuentes, his comments are not like, they're pretty,
• 14:13
  Speaker 1: you know, we should go back to segregation. Jewish people
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: should leave the country. January 6th was awesome. Like, it's very.
• 14:22
  Speaker 2: Kanye West defending Hitler.
• 14:23
  Speaker 1: Kanye West defending Hitler. That's one that's going to break through,
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: I think. I think that's one that's going to break through.
• 14:28
  Speaker 2: That's one thing Kanye's been pretty good at, is attention.
• 14:30
  Speaker 1: Anyway. All right, let's turn to some happier news. This week,
• 14:33
  Speaker 1: Congress passed a law that will finally grant federal recognition
• 14:36
  Speaker 1: of states' same-sex and interracial marriages here in 2022. The
• 14:40
  Speaker 1: bill was introduced after Clarence Thomas suggested in his Dobbs
• 14:44
  Speaker 1: opinion that the court should reconsider not only abortion rights,
• 14:47
  Speaker 1: but precedents that protect the right to use contraception or
• 14:50
  Speaker 1: marry who you want. The Senate vote was 61 to 36,
• 14:54
  Speaker 1: with more than half of all Republicans voting no, even
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: though over 70% of Americans support same-sex marriage and over
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: 90% support interracial marriage. What do you think explains the
• 15:04
  Speaker 1: no votes? And do you think this is now settled
• 15:08
  Speaker 1: as a political issue or will marriage come up again
• 15:12
  Speaker 1: in 2024?
• 15:13
  Speaker 2: We have several times said marriage was settled as a
• 15:16
  Speaker 2: political issue and it has come back again. And I
• 15:17
  Speaker 2: think as long as the Republican Party is in the
• 15:19
  Speaker 2: thrall of right-wing MAGA extremists who want to take away
• 15:23
  Speaker 2: our rights and freedoms, then it will come up again.
• 15:25
  Speaker 2: You can see a backlash at the state level trying
• 15:29
  Speaker 2: to make life harder for people. who enter into same-sex marriages.
• 15:33
  Speaker 2: So I think it will remain a live issue. I
• 15:36
  Speaker 2: think some Senate Republicans clearly wanted to take it off
• 15:38
  Speaker 2: the table. There was reporting that more Republicans wanted to
• 15:41
  Speaker 2: vote yes on this bill, but they faced real pressure
• 15:45
  Speaker 2: from the evangelical right to get them to vote no.
• 15:50
  Speaker 2: And it is worth noting that more than half of
• 15:54
  Speaker 2: Senate Republicans voted against enshrining same-sex and interracial marriage. This
• 16:00
  Speaker 2: is an issue with 70% approval on same-sex marriage and
• 16:03
  Speaker 2: obviously much, much higher on interracial marriage.
• 16:05
  Speaker 1: Yeah. It is worth pausing to note that on the
• 16:10
  Speaker 1: issue of marriage specifically and same-sex marriage, this is an
• 16:13
  Speaker 1: issue where in 2004, in that presidential campaign, it was
• 16:20
  Speaker 1: seen as an issue that Republicans could use to win
• 16:24
  Speaker 1: the election, that they were hoping to put marriage in
• 16:28
  Speaker 1: on the ballot in a whole bunch of states that
• 16:30
  Speaker 1: would help drive out Republican turnout.
• 16:32
  Speaker 2: And they ran on a fake constitutional amendment to enshrine
• 16:34
  Speaker 2: marriage as a man and woman.
• 16:35
  Speaker 1: Right. And then in 2008, when Obama ran, it was
• 16:40
  Speaker 1: still only supported by 39% of Americans and 51% opposed it.
• 16:47
  Speaker 1: And Obama was obviously for civil unions then and then
• 16:50
  Speaker 1: became for marriage later on. So an issue like that
• 16:53
  Speaker 1: that went from 39-51 to over 70% In this short
• 16:57
  Speaker 1: a time, I mean, I think it's worth noting because
• 17:01
  Speaker 1: people should feel that for all the difficult issues that
• 17:07
  Speaker 1: are out there and for as much as politics can suck,
• 17:10
  Speaker 1: the culture can change and politics can change in a
• 17:13
  Speaker 1: pretty sweeping way over the course of several years. And
• 17:16
  Speaker 1: I think that's a testament to not the politicians because
• 17:19
  Speaker 1: they sort of didn't lead on this. It was activists
• 17:22
  Speaker 1: and people on the ground who did this.
• 17:23
  Speaker 2: It should give people hope that better things are possible
• 17:29
  Speaker 2: in this country, that people can agree, they can change
• 17:31
  Speaker 2: their minds, they can become more thoughtful and more tolerant.
• 17:36
  Speaker 2: And it really happened in ways, as you said, the
• 17:39
  Speaker 2: politicians were led from behind on this one, and it
• 17:43
  Speaker 2: was organizers and activists who pushed, but it was just
• 17:45
  Speaker 2: the public came around because they saw people in their
• 17:49
  Speaker 2: lives who were in loving, this is what Obama talked
• 17:53
  Speaker 2: about when he came out publicly for people, who he
• 17:57
  Speaker 2: knew who were in loving relationships, they were just as
• 17:59
  Speaker 2: loving as ones between a man and a woman, and
• 18:01
  Speaker 2: it changed their minds. It widened the aperture to see
• 18:04
  Speaker 2: something different. And so that could happen in the coming
• 18:07
  Speaker 2: years on a lot of issues that seem intractable right now.
• 18:11
  Speaker 2: And so if we think that we are just going
• 18:14
  Speaker 2: down the toilet of polarization and negativity and revanchism and
• 18:18
  Speaker 2: all of that is that there are real world, very
• 18:21
  Speaker 2: recent real world examples of things changing and changing dramatically
• 18:25
  Speaker 2: for the better in this country.
• 18:26
  Speaker 1: Persuasion happens all the time. It's possible. And yeah, don't
• 18:30
  Speaker 1: give up on it.
• 18:31
  Speaker 2: I mean, as you told us last week, you're a
• 18:32
  Speaker 2: big persuasion guy.
• 18:33
  Speaker 1: I'm a big persuasion guy. Congress still has a lot
• 18:44
  Speaker 1: more to do before they leave for the holidays and
• 18:46
  Speaker 1: Republicans take over the House. They need to figure out
• 18:49
  Speaker 1: how to fund the government, the military, COVID programs, disaster
• 18:52
  Speaker 1: relief and assistance to Ukraine. They want to pass the
• 18:55
  Speaker 1: Electoral Count Reform Act, and they want to lift the
• 18:58
  Speaker 1: debt limit because of stories like this one from Bloomberg
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: on Tuesday. Quote, Senate Republicans want to leverage the next U.S.
• 19:06
  Speaker 1: debt limit increase to force cuts in projected federal spending
• 19:09
  Speaker 1: and changes to Social Security and other entitlement programs, the
• 19:13
  Speaker 1: party's number two leader said. That would be Senator John Thune,
• 19:16
  Speaker 1: who floated increasing the retirement age in an event that
• 19:20
  Speaker 1: Bloomberg covered. Why wouldn't Democrats make... defusing the debt limit
• 19:25
  Speaker 1: the top priority in the lame duck?
• 19:28
  Speaker 2: I have to. I mean, of course, the bill they
• 19:32
  Speaker 2: just passed was a top priority, should be the top priority,
• 19:35
  Speaker 2: was a bipartisan bill. I imagine that if it was
• 19:40
  Speaker 2: up to the White House and most of the Senate
• 19:42
  Speaker 2: Democratic Caucus, they would 100% defuse the debt limit tomorrow.
• 19:46
  Speaker 1: I think that's correct.
• 19:47
  Speaker 2: All the folks in the White House that you and
• 19:48
  Speaker 2: I know well were without us in 2011 and 2013
• 19:52
  Speaker 2: when Republicans pushed the economy to the brink of collapse
• 19:57
  Speaker 2: by using the debt ceiling. And that was a Republican,
• 19:59
  Speaker 2: particularly Republican House Caucus that was clearly batshit crazy, but
• 20:04
  Speaker 2: quite sane compared to the one that's coming in this year.
• 20:07
  Speaker 2: The problem is I assume, Joe Manchin, Kyrsten Sinema, and
• 20:13
  Speaker 2: perhaps maybe a handful of other Democrats who were unwilling
• 20:16
  Speaker 2: to use, because you would have to use, you'd have
• 20:18
  Speaker 2: to do one of two things. You could do it,
• 20:21
  Speaker 2: you could get 10 Republicans, and I imagine there's some,
• 20:24
  Speaker 2: probably some Republicans who, if they could vote in secret,
• 20:27
  Speaker 2: would not want to have to deal with this at
• 20:28
  Speaker 2: some point next year. Because the Senate is always, even
• 20:31
  Speaker 2: the most Senate Republicans, the two times we dealt with
• 20:33
  Speaker 2: this in the past, were very resistant to the effort
• 20:35
  Speaker 2: and kind of brought there by the nuts in the House.
• 20:40
  Speaker 2: Or you can do it– and that way you can
• 20:42
  Speaker 2: extend it for– when you do it through regular order,
• 20:43
  Speaker 2: you can extend it for a period of time. We're
• 20:45
  Speaker 2: going to delay the debt ceiling until 2025. If you
• 20:50
  Speaker 2: do it through budget reconciliation, which would get you your
• 20:53
  Speaker 2: 50 votes and is very process-wise problematic or time-consuming, you
• 20:59
  Speaker 2: have to do it for a number. So you have
• 21:00
  Speaker 2: to lift it for $ 3 trillion or something like that
• 21:04
  Speaker 2: to get you– Or you can get rid of it.
• 21:06
  Speaker 2: Or you could eliminate it forever. Can you eliminate forever
• 21:09
  Speaker 2: with budget reconciliation?
• 21:10
  Speaker 1: You can say that it's like, you can pick a number.
• 21:12
  Speaker 2: Googleplex?
• 21:13
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 21:15
  Speaker 2: That would be amazing. To infinity and beyond. And so
• 21:19
  Speaker 2: that's the challenge is that there isn't appetite to do it.
• 21:24
  Speaker 2: That is, in my mind, a massive, massive strategic mistake
• 21:30
  Speaker 2: on behalf of these senators. And as a senator like
• 21:32
  Speaker 2: Joe Manchin, who is running for re-election of every Republican state,
• 21:36
  Speaker 2: He would be better off ripping the Band-Aid off right
• 21:38
  Speaker 2: now than being in the middle between a Democratic White
• 21:41
  Speaker 2: House and a lunatic Republican Congress with Social Security on
• 21:45
  Speaker 2: the line in a state with one of the highest
• 21:47
  Speaker 2: retired populations in the country. He should not want this fight,
• 21:50
  Speaker 2: but he's never been super well acquainted with his best
• 21:54
  Speaker 2: political interests.
• 21:56
  Speaker 1: I asked Ron about this, so you guys will hear
• 21:59
  Speaker 1: his answer in a little bit. But he did say
• 22:01
  Speaker 1: that obviously the White House wants to lift it but
• 22:04
  Speaker 1: that they need the votes which makes me and i
• 22:06
  Speaker 1: also read some reporting on the way over here that
• 22:09
  Speaker 1: um it is mansion and cinema and what they're saying
• 22:12
  Speaker 1: is um they don't want to do it on at
• 22:15
  Speaker 1: uh through budget reconciliation because that would be doing it
• 22:17
  Speaker 1: on a partisan basis so it's like you'd rather have
• 22:22
  Speaker 1: kevin mccarthy and his band of nuts be negotiating on
• 22:27
  Speaker 1: this when the whole economy could end up destroyed because
• 22:31
  Speaker 1: we breached the debt limit because we didn't bow to
• 22:34
  Speaker 1: their crazy demands?
• 22:35
  Speaker 2: And the Senate Republicans are more like the House now
• 22:41
  Speaker 2: than they were then, right? The Rob Portmans of the
• 22:44
  Speaker 2: world are gone. They're replaced by J.D. Vance's, right? We
• 22:46
  Speaker 2: couldn't end up with Herschel Walker there. There are a
• 22:48
  Speaker 2: bunch of people from previous cycles like Tommy Tuberville and others.
• 22:53
  Speaker 2: And so there is going to be... When this happened
• 22:55
  Speaker 2: in 2013, it was all the nuts in the Republican
• 22:58
  Speaker 2: House plus Ted Cruz who forced his conclusion. And Ted
• 23:01
  Speaker 2: Cruz was ostracized in his caucus. They're like, why is
• 23:04
  Speaker 2: this horribly annoying person making us work all this time
• 23:07
  Speaker 2: with such a stupid thing? But now there are a
• 23:09
  Speaker 2: bunch of Ted Cruz's. They're all competing to be Ted Cruz.
• 23:11
  Speaker 2: And it's going to happen with Donald Trump running for
• 23:14
  Speaker 2: president and a Republican presidential primary happening at the time.
• 23:18
  Speaker 2: with a bunch of people egging it on. It is
• 23:20
  Speaker 2: deeply dangerous. And Joe Manchin.
• 23:22
  Speaker 1: Someone's got to talk some sense into Manchin and Sinema
• 23:24
  Speaker 1: on this one. Which we're not going to get to.
• 23:26
  Speaker 2: Yeah, let's check the count.
• 23:27
  Speaker 1: We've been doing that for a couple of years.
• 23:29
  Speaker 2: Are we in 2021 again?
• 23:32
  Speaker 1: If we are headed for another showdown with Republicans over
• 23:35
  Speaker 1: the debt limit, what does that look like? What are
• 23:37
  Speaker 1: the politics? How should Democrats handle it? Let's say what
• 23:41
  Speaker 1: we think is going to come to pass comes to
• 23:43
  Speaker 1: pass and Manchin and Sinema act like Manchin and Sinema
• 23:45
  Speaker 1: and then we're in a debt limit fight.
• 23:47
  Speaker 2: My recommendation, if someone were to ask me, and they
• 23:52
  Speaker 2: really shouldn't, is to adopt the position that Barack Obama
• 23:55
  Speaker 2: adopted in 2012 and 2013, which is that Democrats will
• 23:59
  Speaker 2: not negotiate over the debt limit. You pass it or
• 24:02
  Speaker 2: you don't. We're not going to be in some situation
• 24:04
  Speaker 2: where we're going to use an esoteric, anachronistic legislative mechanism
• 24:10
  Speaker 2: that simply allows us to adjust for the bills we
• 24:12
  Speaker 2: already paid. to make huge changes to federal entitlement programs,
• 24:17
  Speaker 2: to Social Security, to Medicare, to budget cuts. We are
• 24:19
  Speaker 2: not going to do that. And so it is either
• 24:21
  Speaker 2: you have to play a game of chicken and center
• 24:23
  Speaker 2: that fight around Social Security and Medicare. And John Thune
• 24:26
  Speaker 2: helpfully laid out what the stakes of that fight were.
• 24:29
  Speaker 2: And so that on paper should benefit Democrats. Like there
• 24:33
  Speaker 2: was a navigator poll out taken post-election to sort of
• 24:36
  Speaker 2: get an understanding of these are people who said they
• 24:38
  Speaker 2: voted in the midterm elections in Social Security and Medicare.
• 24:41
  Speaker 2: was an issue that was more important to the swing
• 24:44
  Speaker 2: voters who decided the election than jobs in the economy.
• 24:47
  Speaker 2: It was number three behind abortion inflation. And ending the
• 24:50
  Speaker 2: guarantee for Social Security and Medicare is by far the
• 24:53
  Speaker 2: number one concern of all voters about the new Republican Congress.
• 24:57
  Speaker 2: So that would lend itself. But here's the big caveat.
• 25:00
  Speaker 2: So that's like, well, yeah, maybe Manchin's doing us a favor.
• 25:02
  Speaker 2: We'll get a fight. We can reframe the entire economic
• 25:05
  Speaker 2: question in high stakes. But it is likely to be
• 25:10
  Speaker 2: deeply damaging to the economy. And damaging to the president
• 25:13
  Speaker 2: at the same time.
• 25:14
  Speaker 1: And for the majority of voters who do not consume
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: political coverage as closely as us, what they will see is, oh,
• 25:22
  Speaker 1: there's a big fight in Washington and now the economy's
• 25:25
  Speaker 1: really fucked up.
• 25:25
  Speaker 2: Over government spending too much money.
• 25:26
  Speaker 1: Over government spending too much money. And I hear that
• 25:29
  Speaker 1: Republicans might be at fault, but I don't know. Why
• 25:30
  Speaker 1: can't Biden fix it? He's the president. And then that's
• 25:33
  Speaker 1: all they hear.
• 25:34
  Speaker 2: It's very possible they could have this huge fight. Democrats
• 25:37
  Speaker 2: could win. They could emerge strengthened by it. I think
• 25:42
  Speaker 2: that is what happened for Obama in 2013. Unfortunately, the
• 25:45
  Speaker 2: Obamacare website stopped working 10 days later. So it was
• 25:48
  Speaker 2: a brief honeymoon. In 2011, that was deeply damaging to Obama.
• 25:53
  Speaker 2: He had his lowest poll numbers. After that, we were
• 25:55
  Speaker 2: in the middle of preparing for the reelect the next year.
• 25:59
  Speaker 2: The outcome of that fight was Barack Obama was losing
• 26:01
  Speaker 2: to a generic Republican by several points in our polling
• 26:04
  Speaker 2: after that.
• 26:05
  Speaker 1: When they died, our credit rating was downgraded.
• 26:07
  Speaker 2: Yeah, credit rating was downgraded. We had a month that
• 26:10
  Speaker 2: were zero jobs for credit, zero, the exact number zero,
• 26:13
  Speaker 2: which is almost mathematically impossible to land on that number
• 26:16
  Speaker 2: in a country of 300 million people. And it's dangerous.
• 26:19
  Speaker 2: The thing is, it's dangerous. Forget who wins the politics.
• 26:22
  Speaker 2: Both times we came very close to going off the edge,
• 26:26
  Speaker 2: not paying our bills, defaulting on the people not getting
• 26:28
  Speaker 2: their social security checks, massive impact on the global economy,
• 26:32
  Speaker 2: returning to a recession, all bad. You can avoid it.
• 26:36
  Speaker 2: Avoid it.
• 26:36
  Speaker 1: Yeah. And I think this also goes into the way
• 26:38
  Speaker 1: to frame it is to start framing it early. If
• 26:40
  Speaker 1: you're the Democrats that like these extremists are now taking
• 26:43
  Speaker 1: the economy hostage because they can't get Social Security, Medicare. Yeah.
• 26:47
  Speaker 1: All right. So finally, the RNC announced that they're forming
• 26:50
  Speaker 1: a committee to do an autopsy on their disappointing midterm results.
• 26:54
  Speaker 1: The committee includes Kellyanne Conway, anti-gay evangelical Tony Perkins and
• 27:01
  Speaker 1: Unabomber fanboy Blake Masters. The failed Arizona Senate candidate who
• 27:05
  Speaker 1: Republican pollsters have said was less popular than the man
• 27:08
  Speaker 1: accused of child molestation who they ran for Senate in 2017.
• 27:12
  Speaker 1: Roy Moore.
• 27:13
  Speaker 2: What a party.
• 27:14
  Speaker 1: What a party. In fairness, I think Masters does seem
• 27:17
  Speaker 1: like the kind of guy who's intimately familiar with autopsies.
• 27:23
  Speaker 1: Just maybe not the kind that they're trying to do here.
• 27:25
  Speaker 2: He just watches that autopsy channel 24-7. Right? I mean,
• 27:28
  Speaker 2: that's the kind of guy. I think I put him
• 27:32
  Speaker 2: in the outline as serial killer impersonator Blake Masters.
• 27:34
  Speaker 1: I know. Honestly, that gave me inspiration. Yes.
• 27:37
  Speaker 2: Your joke was better. Or Sarah Lazarus' joke. Someone's joke
• 27:39
  Speaker 2: was better.
• 27:39
  Speaker 1: No, that was mine. That was mine. Do you think
• 27:41
  Speaker 1: this extremely Trumpy committee will deliver some fresh insights about
• 27:46
  Speaker 1: how Republicans can win the next election?
• 27:48
  Speaker 2: I mean, the context for this is that Ronna Romney McDaniel,
• 27:51
  Speaker 2: who has been the chair of the RNC since 2017,
• 27:53
  Speaker 2: so she has lost elections in 17, 18, 19, 20,
• 27:55
  Speaker 2: and 22. Yeah. is running for re-election as chair. There's
• 28:03
  Speaker 2: a chance that she's going to be challenged by Lee Zeldin,
• 28:05
  Speaker 2: who ran for governor in New York and ran a,
• 28:08
  Speaker 2: you know, he lost by a lot, but I guess
• 28:10
  Speaker 2: less than most people lose New York by. And one
• 28:13
  Speaker 2: of the things she's trying to.
• 28:14
  Speaker 1: You just left out the other challenger.
• 28:17
  Speaker 2: Who's that? Senator.
• 28:18
  Speaker 1: MyPillowGuy.
• 28:19
  Speaker 2: Oh, is he going to do it?
• 28:20
  Speaker 1: Mike Lindell? Yeah.
• 28:22
  Speaker 2: He wants to challenge. Oh, I... You know what? He
• 28:25
  Speaker 2: has my full support. It's so funny. It's just, we're
• 28:31
  Speaker 2: going to look back on this period of time and
• 28:32
  Speaker 2: be like, where you can say something called a phrase,
• 28:35
  Speaker 2: the MyPillowGuy, and everyone knows exactly what you're talking about.
• 28:37
  Speaker 2: It's like a real thing.
• 28:38
  Speaker 1: You remember the episode where you talked about Kanye West
• 28:40
  Speaker 1: loving Hitler and the MyPillowGuy running for RNC chair? Yeah,
• 28:43
  Speaker 1: that was the interesting episode.
• 28:45
  Speaker 2: I mean, it's so funny because, like, In the post-2012
• 28:50
  Speaker 2: autopsy that was done after Obama won was this very
• 28:54
  Speaker 2: serious effort. Our friend Tim Miller wrote about it in
• 28:56
  Speaker 2: great detail in his book. With all, like, smart people
• 29:01
  Speaker 2: and really trying to, like, ask hard questions about the
• 29:03
  Speaker 2: Republican Party. Now, their answers were apparently all wrong because
• 29:07
  Speaker 2: they probably said the opposite of it and won anyway.
• 29:10
  Speaker 2: But it was a serious effort. This doesn't feel like
• 29:13
  Speaker 2: it's going to be a serious effort because ultimately a
• 29:16
  Speaker 2: truly serious effort would be You would just have like
• 29:19
  Speaker 2: a trapper keeper and you'd open up. There'd be a
• 29:20
  Speaker 2: picture of Donald Trump's face like that would be it.
• 29:23
  Speaker 2: And obviously they can't do that. But that is the thing.
• 29:25
  Speaker 2: It's like if we had less Trump, we would lose less.
• 29:28
  Speaker 2: But he's the problem. And so it's like this is
• 29:32
  Speaker 2: the problem.
• 29:32
  Speaker 1: It's him.
• 29:33
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 29:35
  Speaker 2: So, no, I don't think it's going to be a
• 29:36
  Speaker 2: serious effort.
• 29:38
  Speaker 1: John. Even though I don't think it's going to be
• 29:40
  Speaker 1: a serious effort either. I also think that what they
• 29:43
  Speaker 1: learned from 2012 is, oh, if we just ignore the
• 29:46
  Speaker 1: autopsy and go with Donald Trump, we won anyway.
• 29:49
  Speaker 2: So we haven't won since then.
• 29:51
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 29:51
  Speaker 1: But I feel like lessons not learned.
• 29:52
  Speaker 2: It's like a 16, the exception of the rule.
• 29:54
  Speaker 1: Right. They don't they don't know yet. On our side,
• 29:57
  Speaker 1: even though Democrats had a historically good midterm, should our
• 30:01
  Speaker 1: party consider doing something similar? Minus the Blake Masters and the...
• 30:06
  Speaker 1: Whose are my... Yeah, I was going to say, I
• 30:08
  Speaker 1: don't know. I don't know whose are who are. It
• 30:09
  Speaker 1: could be us. Keep the pod save guys out of there. Yeah,
• 30:14
  Speaker 1: what do you think?
• 30:15
  Speaker 2: Absolutely, we should. I think I have worked on winning
• 30:19
  Speaker 2: races and losing races. And you always learn more from
• 30:24
  Speaker 2: the races you lose because you actually approach it with
• 30:27
  Speaker 2: the idea of trying to figure out what went wrong.
• 30:29
  Speaker 2: When you win, particularly when you win a race, you
• 30:32
  Speaker 2: don't think you're, you didn't think you were going to win.
• 30:34
  Speaker 2: All your ideas seem brilliant at that point. Everything was
• 30:37
  Speaker 2: obviously right. Or how did you win? And we, there
• 30:40
  Speaker 2: is a, I think when you look at all the
• 30:43
  Speaker 2: conversation that's happened about why Democrats won, who turned out,
• 30:47
  Speaker 2: who didn't, how we got them to turn out, what
• 30:48
  Speaker 2: were the right messages, what were the wrong messages? there's
• 30:51
  Speaker 2: a lot of conflicting information. There's a lot of information
• 30:53
  Speaker 2: based on the exits, the exits or very selective reading
• 30:59
  Speaker 2: of certain turnout data narratives being pushed by people who
• 31:02
  Speaker 2: have interests in that. Like it's, there's a lot of
• 31:04
  Speaker 2: confirmation bias. I think it would be very helpful to
• 31:07
  Speaker 2: figure out a real analysis of who decided the election,
• 31:13
  Speaker 2: what messages work with them, where they got their information and,
• 31:17
  Speaker 2: You know, was it a validation of this or a
• 31:19
  Speaker 2: vindication of that or a statement against this person? I
• 31:23
  Speaker 2: thought that the navigator poll I referenced earlier is helpful
• 31:25
  Speaker 2: in that. But there could be a real project to
• 31:28
  Speaker 2: help us understand because there are some places where things
• 31:31
  Speaker 2: didn't go right.
• 31:32
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 31:32
  Speaker 2: Like what went wrong in New York? Why did Tim
• 31:36
  Speaker 2: Ryan not do much better against a candidate like a
• 31:40
  Speaker 2: great candidate like Tim Ryan do not any better than
• 31:43
  Speaker 2: other Democrats did against a terrible candidate like J.D. Vance? Like,
• 31:47
  Speaker 2: what does that say? What is happening there? What are
• 31:48
  Speaker 2: we missing?
• 31:49
  Speaker 1: And by the way, the truth may not validate either
• 31:55
  Speaker 1: side of a debate, right? Like, it could end up
• 31:57
  Speaker 1: being quite complicated and nuanced over what went wrong, what
• 32:01
  Speaker 1: went right.
• 32:01
  Speaker 2: We will not accept that.
• 32:02
  Speaker 1: Well, that's what I'm saying.
• 32:04
  Speaker 2: You can only do that on Mastodon.
• 32:05
  Speaker 1: It could be the truth. I'm glad we did a
• 32:09
  Speaker 1: lot of Mastodon jokes in the last.
• 32:10
  Speaker 2: Which is why you're pretty far down the waiting list.
• 32:12
  Speaker 1: A lot of toots. A lot of toots. But yeah, no,
• 32:15
  Speaker 1: I think there's probably a lot of different explanations for
• 32:19
  Speaker 1: what went wrong and what went right. And it could
• 32:21
  Speaker 1: be a lot more subtle than we think. And it's
• 32:22
  Speaker 1: very helpful for us to figure this out in advance
• 32:25
  Speaker 1: of 2024. Because I think it's been unhelpful that the conversation,
• 32:29
  Speaker 1: at least sort of the online media conversation or the
• 32:33
  Speaker 1: cable conversation has devolved into like, the pundits were wrong
• 32:36
  Speaker 1: or the red wave didn't happen or the polls were
• 32:38
  Speaker 1: wrong or they were right or you believe in the
• 32:39
  Speaker 1: pundits or you don't. It's like, who cares? Who cares?
• 32:44
  Speaker 1: At this point, we just want to know exactly why
• 32:47
  Speaker 1: certain voters turned out, other voters didn't, and why they
• 32:49
  Speaker 1: voted the way they do. I mean, it's very helpful.
• 32:51
  Speaker 2: I have no doubt, no doubt, that Jenna Mellie Dillon
• 32:57
  Speaker 2: and Nita Dunn and the Biden team are looking at this.
• 32:59
  Speaker 2: Because if you're trying to figure out your plan and budget,
• 33:02
  Speaker 2: which they are doing as Joe Biden is making his
• 33:05
  Speaker 2: final decision on whether to run or not, you need
• 33:07
  Speaker 2: to know the answer to that. You need to know
• 33:09
  Speaker 2: why black turnout was, according to some reports, lower than
• 33:12
  Speaker 2: people thought it was going to be, why other turnout
• 33:14
  Speaker 2: was higher. How high was youth turnout? There's been a
• 33:16
  Speaker 2: big conversation about Gen Z and winning the election. And
• 33:20
  Speaker 2: while in raw numbers in vote support, it was high.
• 33:24
  Speaker 2: But as a percentage of turnout, it was lower than 18.
• 33:26
  Speaker 2: What does that say? Why? Talking to people who didn't
• 33:30
  Speaker 2: turn out. We did a big project in preparation for
• 33:34
  Speaker 2: 2012 where we looked at the drop-off voters between people
• 33:37
  Speaker 2: who voted for Obama in 2008 who did not turn
• 33:39
  Speaker 2: out in 2010 to understand why they didn't vote in
• 33:43
  Speaker 2: that time. And that informed a lot of our messaging
• 33:46
  Speaker 2: in 2012. I'm confident that a similar project will be done.
• 33:50
  Speaker 2: But I just think That will be their internal strategic analysis.
• 33:56
  Speaker 2: I think for the rest of the party, all the
• 33:58
  Speaker 2: people are going to be running races in 2024.
• 33:59
  Speaker 1: I was going to say, yeah.
• 34:00
  Speaker 2: You need a more public thing. And if, look, if
• 34:03
  Speaker 2: anyone wants to partner with MessageBox to do that, I'm in.
• 34:05
  Speaker 1: Wow.
• 34:06
  Speaker 2: I don't hand out such an opportunity lightly, but I
• 34:10
  Speaker 2: would do it here.
• 34:11
  Speaker 1: Yeah, well, and yeah, I was going to say like
• 34:12
  Speaker 1: beyond the Biden folks, like Sherrod Brown is running again
• 34:15
  Speaker 1: in 2024 in a very tough race in Ohio. He's
• 34:17
  Speaker 1: going to want to know why Tim Ryan did not,
• 34:21
  Speaker 1: you know, overperform Biden by as much as I think
• 34:23
  Speaker 1: a lot of people expected. folks trying to win back
• 34:26
  Speaker 1: the house, which is very winnable for Democrats in 2024
• 34:29
  Speaker 1: are going to want to know, right?
• 34:30
  Speaker 2: Better figure out what happened in New York. Cause if
• 34:32
  Speaker 2: we don't win those seats back in a presidential election year,
• 34:34
  Speaker 2: we are not getting the house. Yeah.
• 34:35
  Speaker 1: And it's like, we can complain about Andrew Cuomo while
• 34:37
  Speaker 1: we want. Great. Yeah, I'm fine. But like, we should
• 34:39
  Speaker 1: figure out how to win those seats back.
• 34:41
  Speaker 2: He's still going to be around. Yeah.
• 34:43
  Speaker 1: Are you doing some podcast? Um, okay. Yeah.
• 34:45
  Speaker 2: So are you making an announcement?
• 34:48
  Speaker 1: I just feel like that's, that's where everyone, that's where
• 34:51
  Speaker 1: all these fucking losers end up, you know? Anyway, I
• 34:54
  Speaker 1: hope you enjoyed our podcast. When we come back, my
• 34:59
  Speaker 1: interview with White House Chief of Staff, Ron Klain. Ron Klain,
• 35:11
  Speaker 1: welcome back to Pod Save America. Thanks for having me, John.
• 35:13
  Speaker 4: It's always good to be back.
• 35:14
  Speaker 1: Good to be here too. First off, congrats on a
• 35:16
  Speaker 1: great midterm. Thank you.
• 35:18
  Speaker 4: I mean, I think that, uh, A lot of factors
• 35:20
  Speaker 4: went into it, but we're proud of the role the
• 35:22
  Speaker 4: president played as leadership and to achieve a historic result,
• 35:27
  Speaker 4: to hang on to all of our Democratic senators if
• 35:30
  Speaker 4: we knock wood, get Georgia done next week, to have
• 35:34
  Speaker 4: so few seats lost in the House, really a historic result,
• 35:38
  Speaker 4: to win some critical governorships, and to actually win many
• 35:41
  Speaker 4: state legislative chambers. Go up and down the ballot, it
• 35:45
  Speaker 4: was really an exceptional result.
• 35:47
  Speaker 1: So you were here in 2010 and 94 and I
• 35:49
  Speaker 1: didn't yeah, I've seen it all and 2010 voters were
• 35:53
  Speaker 1: upset about the economy Obama's approval rating was wasn't great
• 35:57
  Speaker 1: and we got killed in the midterms. Yeah here saying
• 35:59
  Speaker 1: people weren't happy with the economy Biden's approval wasn't great
• 36:02
  Speaker 1: and Historic result. Yeah, how do you think what was
• 36:05
  Speaker 1: the difference?
• 36:06
  Speaker 4: I do think we delivered a lot of things for
• 36:09
  Speaker 4: the American people that were popular so look, I'm so
• 36:12
  Speaker 4: glad we did Obamacare back in 2010 and And over time,
• 36:15
  Speaker 4: people have come to appreciate it. But back in 2010,
• 36:18
  Speaker 4: it was not popular, as you and I both remember.
• 36:21
  Speaker 4: And so we had candidates carrying around a bill that
• 36:25
  Speaker 4: wasn't popular with the voters at that time. The things
• 36:28
  Speaker 4: President Biden's done, I think, have really remained very popular.
• 36:33
  Speaker 4: The Inflation Reduction Act, bringing down the cost of prescription drugs,
• 36:36
  Speaker 4: the infrastructure bill, the CHIPS bill. So when the president
• 36:39
  Speaker 4: called winners on election night, one by one, each of
• 36:42
  Speaker 4: them said, you know, I ran on this part of
• 36:44
  Speaker 4: your agenda. I ran on that part of your agenda.
• 36:46
  Speaker 4: They weren't running away.
• 36:47
  Speaker 1: From the president.
• 36:47
  Speaker 4: They were running with the president. I think that really helped.
• 36:49
  Speaker 4: I think that kind of sense that things were moving
• 36:51
  Speaker 4: in the right direction, that we'd gotten things done and
• 36:54
  Speaker 4: people liked what we'd gotten done. I think that really helped.
• 36:57
  Speaker 4: There's just no question that abortion had a big effect
• 37:01
  Speaker 4: on the election.
• 37:02
  Speaker 1: We weren't the.
• 37:02
  Speaker 4: Only incumbent in 2022. The Supreme Court was kind of
• 37:06
  Speaker 4: an incumbent in 2022, and voters were very unhappy with
• 37:10
  Speaker 4: what they had imposed on the country.
• 37:12
  Speaker 1: That had a big factor.
• 37:13
  Speaker 4: And then finally, we ran against perhaps the most extreme
• 37:17
  Speaker 4: set of Republican candidates.
• 37:18
  Speaker 1: In history. I don't even know how you score that,
• 37:20
  Speaker 1: but they were certainly at the high end of that.
• 37:23
  Speaker 1: And I think that had a big effect.
• 37:24
  Speaker 4: I think voters, the president made a strong appeal twice
• 37:27
  Speaker 4: in the closing period of the campaign for voters to
• 37:29
  Speaker 4: show up and vote for democracy, to stand up for democracy.
• 37:32
  Speaker 1: I think that connected with people.
• 37:34
  Speaker 4: And I think when you put that against the kind
• 37:36
  Speaker 4: of election denier, super MAGA extreme candidates, I think that
• 37:41
  Speaker 4: contrast really helped us.
• 37:42
  Speaker 1: So a ton to get done in the lame duck. Yeah.
• 37:45
  Speaker 1: The other day, John Thune, number two Senate Republican, said
• 37:49
  Speaker 1: that they do want to leverage the debt ceiling to
• 37:52
  Speaker 1: force cuts in Social Security and Medicare. Obviously, you guys
• 37:55
  Speaker 1: don't want to do that. You could lift the debt
• 37:58
  Speaker 1: ceiling in the lame duck with 51 votes if it
• 38:02
  Speaker 1: was attached to a reconciliation bill. I keep reading that
• 38:06
  Speaker 1: people think there's not enough time to do that. But
• 38:08
  Speaker 1: isn't that like a top priority to not let them
• 38:12
  Speaker 1: crash the economy by playing chicken with the debt ceiling?
• 38:15
  Speaker 4: Well, we're going to look at the possibilities of trying
• 38:17
  Speaker 4: to get the debt ceiling done. I think there are
• 38:19
  Speaker 4: some first things first. We have to get this rail
• 38:22
  Speaker 4: shutdown averted. That's an immediate crisis, a crisis for our economy,
• 38:26
  Speaker 4: a crisis for the towns across America that would lose
• 38:29
  Speaker 4: access to clean water, the million workers that get laid off.
• 38:33
  Speaker 4: So that's what we've got the Congress working on this week.
• 38:35
  Speaker 4: We have to get the government funding. That's also a
• 38:37
  Speaker 4: very important thing, an immediate thing. The government runs out
• 38:40
  Speaker 4: of money on December 16th. And so the clock's ticking
• 38:43
  Speaker 4: on that. And we have other things that need to
• 38:45
  Speaker 4: get done. We have to get the marriage equality bill,
• 38:47
  Speaker 4: which passed the Senate the other day, back through the
• 38:50
  Speaker 4: House again and onto the president's desk for a historic signing.
• 38:53
  Speaker 4: So I think debt ceiling's a part of the conversation,
• 38:56
  Speaker 4: but we have to line it up and we'd.
• 39:00
  Speaker 1: Have to have the votes. Are you worried about a
• 39:03
  Speaker 1: debt ceiling fight with a Kevin McCarthy or someone else-led house?
• 39:07
  Speaker 4: Look, I think it is a concern because, let's give
• 39:11
  Speaker 4: them some credit, they have been straight up and open
• 39:13
  Speaker 4: about what they intend to do. They intend to cut
• 39:15
  Speaker 4: Social Security.
• 39:16
  Speaker 1: They intend to cut Medicare.
• 39:17
  Speaker 4: I think we'll win that fight. I don't think the
• 39:20
  Speaker 4: American people want to see Social Security and Medicare cut.
• 39:24
  Speaker 4: And I think if the Republicans go down that path,
• 39:25
  Speaker 4: it'll be a disaster. But certainly, if there's a way
• 39:28
  Speaker 4: to resolve the debt ceiling before that, that would be great.
• 39:30
  Speaker 1: Is the president going to push to get Electoral Reform
• 39:33
  Speaker 1: Act done?
• 39:34
  Speaker 4: Yeah, this has been a very high priority for us. Again,
• 39:36
  Speaker 4: it's one of those things that is very close to
• 39:39
  Speaker 4: the finish line, not quite there. And this is, again,
• 39:43
  Speaker 4: a thing where there's been good bipartisan work in the Senate.
• 39:46
  Speaker 4: I need to credit Senator Collins and others for working
• 39:48
  Speaker 4: on that. And it's very, very important. Look, we saw
• 39:53
  Speaker 4: the near disaster we had in 2020 and the whole
• 39:56
  Speaker 4: thing going off the rails and then the insurrection on
• 39:59
  Speaker 4: January 6th. And so one way to put some guardrails
• 40:02
  Speaker 4: against that is to make it much clearer what kinds
• 40:05
  Speaker 4: of challenges to election results are legitimate, not legitimate, and
• 40:09
  Speaker 4: how those challenges are reviewed. And I think the Electoral
• 40:12
  Speaker 4: Reform Act is a vital part of that. And that's
• 40:15
  Speaker 4: definitely in the must-do category for the lame duck.
• 40:17
  Speaker 1: Looking ahead to the next two years, are there any
• 40:20
  Speaker 1: legislative priorities you think could get done with the Republican House?
• 40:24
  Speaker 4: Well, we're going to have to see. We have had
• 40:27
  Speaker 4: success working with Republicans in Congress. We've had a number
• 40:31
  Speaker 4: of Republicans vote for our infrastructure bill, for our CHIPS bill,
• 40:34
  Speaker 4: for our veterans bill. all told, those are the three
• 40:37
  Speaker 4: big ones, all told over 150 bills that had some
• 40:39
  Speaker 4: bipartisan support. So we've shown we can work with Republicans.
• 40:43
  Speaker 4: The question on the table really is, can the Republican
• 40:45
  Speaker 4: leadership work with us? And we're just going to have
• 40:48
  Speaker 4: to wait and see. I think there are areas that
• 40:51
  Speaker 4: should be areas of common concern. Mental health is one
• 40:53
  Speaker 4: that comes up quite often as an area that really
• 40:56
  Speaker 4: should cross party lines. We're going to have to work
• 40:59
  Speaker 4: together to fund the government, to deal with a lot
• 41:02
  Speaker 4: of the basics and essentials. We're going to need their
• 41:04
  Speaker 4: support to fund the war in Ukraine. So, again, I
• 41:08
  Speaker 4: think we've proven our bona fides on this. I think
• 41:10
  Speaker 4: the challenge is to see what they can do.
• 41:13
  Speaker 1: You guys looking at any executive actions over the next
• 41:15
  Speaker 1: two years or any areas where the president can sort
• 41:17
  Speaker 1: of take action without Congress?
• 41:18
  Speaker 4: Look, we have used the president's executive powers when it's appropriate.
• 41:24
  Speaker 1: The president has tried to, has not.
• 41:26
  Speaker 4: Overreached, but hasn't been shy about using them when it's
• 41:30
  Speaker 4: appropriate on issues like student debt relief. pardoning people with
• 41:34
  Speaker 4: marijuana convictions for simple possession, competition issues, and federal police reform.
• 41:41
  Speaker 4: So we're always looking for things where he has the
• 41:44
  Speaker 4: appropriate authority, and it's in his bailiwick, to act by
• 41:48
  Speaker 4: executive action, act by regulation. That certainly remains on the
• 41:52
  Speaker 4: table next year.
• 41:53
  Speaker 1: So the House Republicans have promised all sorts of investigations
• 41:56
  Speaker 1: into President Biden, the administration, his family even. Are you
• 41:59
  Speaker 1: guys going to cooperate with every investigation and subpoena no
• 42:03
  Speaker 1: matter what, or are there some lines that you're going
• 42:06
  Speaker 1: to draw?
• 42:07
  Speaker 4: Look, I think we will follow the same rules the
• 42:09
  Speaker 4: prior administrations have followed about trying to be cooperative where appropriate,
• 42:13
  Speaker 4: also asserting our rights where that's appropriate too. I think
• 42:19
  Speaker 4: the question really, again, once again, is for the Republicans.
• 42:21
  Speaker 4: They ran around the country in 2022 and said they
• 42:24
  Speaker 4: would fight inflation, they would fight crime, they would secure
• 42:27
  Speaker 4: the border. That was what they ran on. And if
• 42:29
  Speaker 4: they instead turn the House into a political investigations unit,
• 42:34
  Speaker 4: I think they're going to pay a price for that.
• 42:36
  Speaker 4: And I think that's going to fall on them.
• 42:38
  Speaker 1: So former President Trump, current GOP frontrunner, had dinner with
• 42:43
  Speaker 1: a Holocaust-denying white supremacist the other night and Kanye West.
• 42:50
  Speaker 1: So I know a reporter shattered a question at President
• 42:53
  Speaker 1: Biden about this, and President Biden said, you don't want
• 42:56
  Speaker 1: to know what I think. I want to know what
• 42:57
  Speaker 1: he thinks. Has he talked to you about it? Do
• 42:59
  Speaker 1: you know what he thinks?
• 43:01
  Speaker 4: Yes. I mean, I think what he said, you don't
• 43:04
  Speaker 4: want to know what I think. I think what he
• 43:06
  Speaker 4: was conveying was, I think some very bad things that
• 43:09
  Speaker 4: I as president should not be saying out loud. We've
• 43:12
  Speaker 4: also quite clearly condemned it here at the White House,
• 43:15
  Speaker 4: and the president's views are known. Look, this is a
• 43:16
  Speaker 4: president who ran for president. largely motivated to run for
• 43:20
  Speaker 4: president because of anti-Semitic protests in Charlottesville and the people
• 43:27
  Speaker 4: with Nazi-like chants coming down the street. This is what's
• 43:30
  Speaker 4: motivated his candidacy, restoring the soul of America. So he
• 43:37
  Speaker 4: obviously condemns this in the strongest possible language, a language
• 43:41
  Speaker 4: perhaps so strong you can't even say it out loud.
• 43:45
  Speaker 1: And he takes it very seriously.
• 43:46
  Speaker 4: I think the president's been very concerned about the rising
• 43:49
  Speaker 4: tide of antisemitism in this country, some of the violent
• 43:53
  Speaker 4: antisemitic acts we've seen in this country. And so this
• 43:56
  Speaker 4: is something that really matters to him. It's something he's
• 44:00
  Speaker 4: going to be speaking out about more and more and
• 44:02
  Speaker 4: something we're trying to fight in every way we can.
• 44:04
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I could imagine him wanting to speak on this
• 44:07
  Speaker 1: because I feel like every time he does, he's pretty strong.
• 44:10
  Speaker 4: He is. I think he tries to use his voice
• 44:14
  Speaker 4: on these things in a forceful but dignified way, in
• 44:18
  Speaker 4: a way that reflects the seriousness of his views. I
• 44:21
  Speaker 4: think one thing we learned in 2020 and in the
• 44:23
  Speaker 4: past two years is how to have the right kind
• 44:26
  Speaker 4: of exchange with Donald Trump. We've tried to avoid having
• 44:28
  Speaker 4: the president go down to his level and insult for insult,
• 44:34
  Speaker 4: shot for shot, tweet for tweet. But instead, at the
• 44:37
  Speaker 4: right moments, call President Trump out call out his hate,
• 44:42
  Speaker 4: call out his division. He did that very powerfully. President
• 44:45
  Speaker 4: Biden did that very powerfully on the one-year anniversary of
• 44:47
  Speaker 4: January 6th in the Capitol. He did it very powerfully
• 44:50
  Speaker 4: in front of Independence Hall on the start of the
• 44:53
  Speaker 4: fall campaign season. He did it very powerfully on Capitol
• 44:57
  Speaker 4: Hill just a few days before the 2022 election. So
• 45:00
  Speaker 4: he has spoken out.
• 45:02
  Speaker 1: He will speak out.
• 45:03
  Speaker 4: But he's going to speak out in a way, I think,
• 45:04
  Speaker 4: that fits who Joe Biden is, which is talking in
• 45:07
  Speaker 4: a serious, important forceful way about the soul of America
• 45:11
  Speaker 4: and what we need to do to restore it.
• 45:13
  Speaker 1: You mentioned that tweet for tweet. You are one of
• 45:15
  Speaker 1: the White House's most prolific tweeters. I hope not. Well,
• 45:20
  Speaker 1: it's okay. I'm a tweeter myself. What do you think
• 45:23
  Speaker 1: about the new owners changes to the platform, particularly reinstating Trump,
• 45:30
  Speaker 1: Kanye West, and I guess all accounts that haven't broken
• 45:34
  Speaker 1: a law that were once suspended?
• 45:36
  Speaker 4: You know, I will say I don't spend a lot
• 45:39
  Speaker 4: of time thinking about Twitter itself and about how Elon
• 45:42
  Speaker 4: Musk is running Twitter. I kind of have my hands
• 45:44
  Speaker 4: full here. But look, I think anything that encourages hate
• 45:49
  Speaker 4: speech is bad. And I don't think it's obviously not
• 45:55
  Speaker 4: good for our society.
• 45:56
  Speaker 1: It's not good for the discourse. I don't think it's
• 45:58
  Speaker 1: good for Twitter.
• 46:00
  Speaker 4: But he owns it.
• 46:01
  Speaker 1: It's his business.
• 46:02
  Speaker 4: He's going to run it, I guess, how he sees fit.
• 46:04
  Speaker 4: We'll see what happens.
• 46:05
  Speaker 1: People are sort of fleeing the platform left and right.
• 46:07
  Speaker 1: You're going to stay on Twitter? I'm going to stay
• 46:10
  Speaker 1: on Twitter.
• 46:11
  Speaker 4: I haven't really figured out the other platforms yet.
• 46:13
  Speaker 1: I think it's very confusing. So we'll see.
• 46:16
  Speaker 4: Look, you know.
• 46:18
  Speaker 1: Do you find it helpful? You tweet about gas prices falling.
• 46:23
  Speaker 1: You sort of give the press some well-deserved shit for
• 46:27
  Speaker 1: economic narratives. Do you think that's helpful in sort of
• 46:33
  Speaker 1: shaping the press narrative?
• 46:35
  Speaker 4: Here's what I think about Twitter, which is one thing
• 46:37
  Speaker 4: is it was a piece of gospel in the Biden
• 46:40
  Speaker 4: campaign of 2020 that Twitter is not America.
• 46:43
  Speaker 1: And that's true.
• 46:44
  Speaker 4: I think if you go on Twitter and say, hey,
• 46:46
  Speaker 4: is this where the public zeitgeist is?
• 46:48
  Speaker 1: That's a mistake.
• 46:49
  Speaker 4: I think I find it useful in two ways. First
• 46:51
  Speaker 4: of all, it is a quick way to understand the
• 46:55
  Speaker 4: kind of what the press corps thinks of things, what
• 46:57
  Speaker 4: certain kind of elite opinion makers think of things. And
• 47:00
  Speaker 4: that's something that when you run the White House, you
• 47:03
  Speaker 4: need to understand. Secondly, I find it a way, and
• 47:07
  Speaker 4: I hear this all the time as I go around
• 47:08
  Speaker 4: and talk to people, to communicate to our supporters and
• 47:11
  Speaker 4: our allies a point of view and to reach people
• 47:14
  Speaker 4: that you can't, you know, you worked here, we have
• 47:18
  Speaker 4: talking points, we send out talking points by email. There
• 47:21
  Speaker 4: are just a lot of people in today's network society
• 47:23
  Speaker 4: who aren't going to get those talking points by email.
• 47:26
  Speaker 4: So I find it a quick way to communicate, here's
• 47:28
  Speaker 4: our perspective on this issue. Here's our perspective on this thing.
• 47:31
  Speaker 4: And I hear from people all the time, hey, thanks
• 47:32
  Speaker 4: for sending that out. I had to go on TV.
• 47:35
  Speaker 1: I had to do this. I had to do that.
• 47:37
  Speaker 4: And it helped kind of navigate things a little bit.
• 47:40
  Speaker 1: Have you made a decision about whether you're going to
• 47:43
  Speaker 1: stay on as chief of staff? Well, look, it's the
• 47:45
  Speaker 1: job of a lifetime. I love it. Love working for
• 47:47
  Speaker 1: the president.
• 47:48
  Speaker 4: I have an incredibly talented team here and great colleagues
• 47:52
  Speaker 4: that I love.
• 47:53
  Speaker 1: It's a hard job. It's a grinding job.
• 47:54
  Speaker 4: I've stayed longer than any Democratic first chief of staff has.
• 47:59
  Speaker 1: I'm here.
• 47:59
  Speaker 4: I love being here. At some point in time, I'm
• 48:02
  Speaker 4: sure a last day will come, but not now.
• 48:05
  Speaker 1: For now, you're here. Last question, and I'll let you go.
• 48:09
  Speaker 1: You were on the Men in Blazers podcast. I was.
• 48:11
  Speaker 1: You predicted a USA win. I predicted a 4-1 win.
• 48:15
  Speaker 1: I was a little overly enthusiastic.
• 48:17
  Speaker 2: That's okay.
• 48:18
  Speaker 1: You still predicted a win. Yes. Do you have a
• 48:20
  Speaker 1: prediction for the Netherlands? Yes.
• 48:22
  Speaker 4: I do think we're going to win. I think this
• 48:24
  Speaker 4: team is underrated, underestimated. The president's just in love with
• 48:28
  Speaker 4: this team. You remember from the Obama-Biden administration that he
• 48:32
  Speaker 4: led our delegation to South Africa in 2010. He's been
• 48:35
  Speaker 4: a giant U.S. men's team fan since then. We've also
• 48:39
  Speaker 4: had a really close relationship here with the U.S. women's team,
• 48:41
  Speaker 4: working with them on pay equity, and also for the
• 48:44
  Speaker 4: first time ever, any president to give the Medal of
• 48:46
  Speaker 4: Freedom to a soccer player. President Biden gave it to
• 48:49
  Speaker 4: Megan Rapinoe. And so we're big soccer fans here. I
• 48:53
  Speaker 4: think the USA is going to beat Netherlands. I think
• 48:55
  Speaker 4: it's going to be 1-0. I'm not going to go
• 48:57
  Speaker 4: over the top on goals scored this time, but I
• 48:59
  Speaker 4: do think we're going to win.
• 49:00
  Speaker 1: Okay. We heard it here first. Ron Klain, thanks for
• 49:03
  Speaker 1: joining Positive America. Thanks for having me. All right, thanks
• 49:10
  Speaker 1: to Ron for joining us today. Everyone have a great weekend,
• 49:13
  Speaker 1: and we will talk to you next week. Bye, everyone.
• 49:19
  Speaker 1: Pod Save America is a Crooked Media production. The executive
• 49:22
  Speaker 1: producer is Michael Martinez. Our senior producer is Andy Gardner Bernstein.
• 49:26
  Speaker 1: Our producers are Haley Muse and Olivia Martinez. It's mixed
• 49:29
  Speaker 1: and edited by Andrew Chadwick. Kyle Seglin and Charlotte Landis
• 49:33
  Speaker 1: sound engineered the show. Thanks to Hallie Kiefer, Ari Schwartz,
• 49:36
  Speaker 1: Sandy Gerard, Andy Taft, and Justine Howe for production support.
• 49:39
  Speaker 1: And to our digital team, Elijah Cohn, Phoebe Bradford, Milo Kim,
• 49:42
  Speaker 1: and Amelia Montu. Our episodes are uploaded as videos at youtube.com
• 49:46
  Speaker 1: slash podsaveamerica.