Latest / Most Things Kenobi - A Star Wars Podcast / S2 E18: "Andor" Season 2, Episodes 7-9 Recap (SPOILERS)

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S2 E18: "Andor" Season 2, Episodes 7-9 Recap (SPOILERS) · Most Things Kenobi - A Star Wars Podcast

• 0:00
  It's Most Things Kenobi, an elegant podcast for a more
• 0:05
  civilized fandom. Hey everyone, welcome to another
• 0:20
  episode of Most Things Kenobi, a podcast about Obi Wan Kenobi and
• 0:24
  all things Star Wars. I'm your host, Leanne.
• 0:27
  And I'm your host, Lauren. This episode we are going to
• 0:31
  review the last three episodes of Andor which were what, 789?
• 0:37
  789. Yeah, OK.
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  And we have one more, God help us, one more set of three to go.
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  But we're here to talk about 7-8 and nine, and we have not
• 0:50
  discussed this. In fact, I don't have any notes
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  because I couldn't make notes on a high speed ferry somewhere in
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  Greece, so I just watched them and lost my mind and had no
• 1:05
  outlets and I couldn't even take notes.
• 1:07
  So I'm gonna have to do this by memory.
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  I took notes last night, so hopefully we can guide Good,
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  good, because I was all right. First of all, spoiler alert if
• 1:18
  you haven't watched the episodes, go home, Come back
• 1:23
  later. This is not for you.
• 1:25
  Yeah, but after watching it the first time, I was just so
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  depressed. I was, I couldn't even make
• 1:34
  notes and I'm still depressed. It's been, it's, I watched it
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  when it came out on Tuesday and yeah, yeah.
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  They're heavy episodes. And our Patreon, our Patreon
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  chat has been silent like no one wants.
• 1:47
  To talk about it, I mean this, this, it got real and it got
• 1:55
  real real fast. I will say of the one thing that
• 1:59
  you and I discussed, we said it was done very well despite how
• 2:02
  heavy it was. And I do agree, this shit was
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  executed like filmed in such a way that I felt immersed in it,
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  which is why it was so fucking painful and depressing, because
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  this shit was painful and depressing.
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  Yeah, right from the get go. Well, that's not true, actually.
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  Right from the get go. We're living in a fucking tree
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  house in the jungle, Swiss Family Robinson style in a
• 2:30
  jungle villa. I thought it looked cozy.
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  It looked cozy, but what the fuck was that?
• 2:37
  I That's the best you can do on Yavin if you don't live in the
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  pyramid, right? Why do they have a villa and
• 2:43
  everyone else is living in a tin can in some tent village?
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  It was give it some diversity. I don't know.
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  I feel, I feel like there's probably more of those around.
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  Maybe, I guess someone was saying did Hera live in one?
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  And I sure hope so. I hope so.
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  If anyone deserves a a a a tropical jungle Oasis, it's her
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  'cause you know she's there, you know she's there.
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  Yeah, she better be. Well, they do make reference to
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  rebels in episode 9, but we are not there yet.
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  Correct. Yeah, I will say before we lunch
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  and I, I realized we have had no flashbacks in this season.
• 3:33
  Yeah, yeah. In Season 1, we were seeing like
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  little snippets of Cassian's childhood, like moving forward,
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  you know, we see him on Kanari. Right, Kanari?
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  Kick. Lots of words mixed up in my
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  head today. And then as he got older, we saw
• 3:50
  like flashbacks of Clem and him together.
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  We're having none, none of that in this season, which I'm kind
• 3:57
  of missing to be honest. Yeah, well, I mean, they have to
• 4:00
  cram a year's worth of shit into three episodes each.
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  Each three episodes. So they maybe they had the time
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  last season and then we never really got any closure on his
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  sister either. I know and I there is a fan
• 4:19
  theory going around that really upsets me about that and I don't
• 4:22
  want to address it unless we must.
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  OK, well then let's not address it because I don't know it
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  anyway. So yeah, and I will never bring
• 4:29
  it up unless they make a Canon in the next three episodes and
• 4:32
  then we'll have to talk about it.
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  But otherwise I never want to hear that theory again.
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  So I'm curious, but I'll leave it be.
• 4:41
  Well, where should we start? I'm gonna, I'm gonna rely on you
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  for the for the notes and and timeline, all of this so.
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  OK, well it starts. We start on fair or on pharyx.
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  Oh my God, my brain, I'm so tired.
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  We start on. Snow and sky.
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  Yeah, yeah, yeah, we're on Yavin and Cassian and Bix are like
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  playing house and they have a cute little cozy cottage.
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  And then Will comes back and implies that Cassian has been
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  like separated from Lutheran for a little while and Lutheran
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  wants him to come back to work and go assassinate Dedra
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  basically. Yeah, yeah.
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  She let me just stay up front. She was the shining star in
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  these three episodes, honestly. She gave me such a mixture of
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  emotions and, and she always does, yeah.
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  But she, her performance in these three episodes was truly
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  something I, I mean, really good stuff.
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  Denise did a hell of a job in with this character.
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  So anyway, she's. Such a good actress.
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  She really is. I have like no comfortable
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  feelings at all with anything that's going on on Yevin
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  basically between VIX and Cassian so I won't talk shit the
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  whole time but I just feel like. Please do this is what this is
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  for if need I mean if need be. I've talked about this with a
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  few people now. So because we're having these
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  these segments of episodes that are like 3 days out of a year,
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  we're having just to like suspend our disbelief a lot.
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  I think there in some cases it's fine where you don't over
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  explain and you just put us into the situation.
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  However, when characters are extremely different from the
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  last arc set, it might have been helpful to explain why like all
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  of a sudden Bix holds a lot of stock in the force.
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  And like, I don't know, the, the thing I do notice 'cause I don't
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  want to get too ahead of us yet, but the thing I do notice is
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  that now that I think about it, Bix and Cassian basically never
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  have a conversation in, in almost the entire series where
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  they're not kind of on the opposite sides of the
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  conversation. Like especially here, like
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  having gone back and watched, they're not on the same page
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  ever in, in this episode arc. And they very rarely have been
• 7:19
  since the beginning of the season.
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  I'm I'm kind of like noticing. Yeah.
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  So I guess that kind of works with the way the the arc ends,
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  but I'm starting to feel like less and less like this romance
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  makes sense and it. I don't think it's supposed to.
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  Yeah, like, I can't tell if, like, the actors don't really
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  have, like, sincere chemistry or that because, like, I really
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  don't feel much between them. I feel like it's very forced
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  honestly. Yeah.
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  Or like, is it meant to feel that way?
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  I don't know Like I'm really not sure anymore.
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  I've been trying to give it a lot of grace because yes, I ship
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  can't see it in gin, but I I can see Bix being important.
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  It's just starting to feel like less and less sincere to me.
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  And and this scene felt weird and forced and Arthur even
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  laughed out loud at a moment when oh kiss and hits his hands
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  on the table and it's like, yeah, that was week.
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  That was weird. Well, I I guess I've never had
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  strong feelings about Bix as a character and it's nothing
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  against the actress, I just want to say this.
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  Up front, yes. I think it's one of those cases
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  where just because you've known someone your whole life doesn't
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  mean you should be together. Yeah.
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  Like a shared past doesn't equal a shared future.
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  I think this like this is not my bias showing.
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  I really feel like the story would have been stronger if they
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  were not together romantically. If like they had stayed like a a
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  a love that just didn't work from season 1.
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  It really worked well as that. And now they're having to like,
• 9:02
  back themselves into a corner where they have to like, now get
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  rid of Bix somehow. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I agree.
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  I think it's it's actually like weakening the story the further
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  into it we go, which is sad because, you know, I want good
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  things for the character. Well.
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  Absolutely, yeah. I think honestly what's taking
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  place here is the rebellion is growing and they're cute little
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  group, they're tight knit, everybody knew each other and
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  could trust each other. Is like is dissolving and.
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  Yeah. And I totally get it why Cassian
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  feels the way he feels because it used to be simple and that's
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  not what they were doing, but they had, it's the same thing
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  that Lutheran was doing in the previous episode.
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  He's kind of losing it, right? It's because it's getting so
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  much bigger. It's lost its personalization.
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  It's lost. Its the personal meaning behind
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  it. So the thing that means the most
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  to these individuals who were all working together in a tight
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  knit group is now their personal relationships with one another.
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  Because that's the only thing that's left from this previous
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  group is that. Yeah.
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  They have this relationship and Val comes in and like they, they
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  make reference of like, well, you know me and you know,
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  Cassian and all this stuff. And, and it's because they've
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  worked together for so fucking long and now it's becoming
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  there's like rules and they have to they have to do this, that
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  and the other thing and everything has to check out.
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  And, and and now you're under some sort of organization, which
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  I can see why. Again, this tiny faction of
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  people who used to do things their way on their time under
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  Luthan feel kind of displaced. But at the same time, I just
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  think they should have just they were so beautiful in the last
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  set with the hand touching and like their give and take in
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  their little. But who knew that would be the
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  last time that they would have any sort of intimacy?
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  Because now it's they're just part of a larger growing and
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  city and they're losing their own control.
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  They're losing control with each other.
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  They're losing control in their own little tiny faction with
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  Will. Will's got a a love interest now
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  that he's worried about it. Cassian can't knock him for
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  going after this woman that he cares for.
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  I forget her name because he did the same fucking thing in Season
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  1. So I mean it, it, it, I think
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  it's a natural progression for this like them versus, not them
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  versus, but like their group compared to the larger rebellion
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  that is building. Yeah, I agree.
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  And so this is all part and parcel to it.
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  Him with Bix. Yes, yeah, I think I'm my big
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  complaint is that it's happening too late.
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  Like they're waiting to the last fucking second to start
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  integrating these ideas and, and where they're supposed to end up
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  in Rogue One because next season, next season, the next
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  arc, the next arc ends at the beginning of Rogue One.
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  So it's in Rogue One. Basically, this character
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  Cassian should have been committed to the rebellion
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  already. Like this is waiting too late.
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  And, and I won't talk about this yes yet because it's the very
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  last scene. But I do feel like how they're
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  establishing this, it does not fit with where he's supposed to
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  be in Rogue One. So I mean, it'll be amazing to
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  see how they wrap this up, but at this point I'm feeling like
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  the wires are not connecting. There's a lot that should have
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  been established already that isn't.
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  And the motivation is changing now, which I I feel like could
• 12:48
  really undermine Rogue One quite a bit.
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  We'll get there. We're not there yet, but anyway.
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  Well, I will say that I did. I did find some parallels like
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  it. It's it tied, it's tying into
• 13:03
  Rogue One for me right now with Cassian, because he said over
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  and over in these three episodes, I'm not able to make
• 13:13
  my own decisions. I want to make my own decision.
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  Like I'm tired of not. I want to make my own decision.
• 13:19
  I don't know who said it, but isn't that what we're fighting
• 13:21
  for? Was it Clea?
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  Clea said that yes. I thought that was a fantastic
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  line. But what he does, what Cassian
• 13:29
  does in Rogue One by following Jin is his own decision.
• 13:33
  Yeah, so, so there is a link between that portion of what's
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  happening with Cassian that I saw at least.
• 13:42
  But. Yeah.
• 13:43
  I thought Clay had delivered. A lot, yeah.
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  Clay is awesome. She's been one steady pillar
• 13:51
  through Season 1 and Season 2. She is, yeah.
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  Like if I had half the nerve that she does.
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  Like she is, she is a strong, strong person.
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  She's amazing, Yeah, She's been a great character.
• 14:07
  Yeah, I really enjoyed it's getting there's a lot of things
• 14:12
  going on. We we saw some new, we saw some
• 14:15
  old slash new faces in these episodes that we see in Rogue
• 14:20
  One, which is nice, some familiar faces and.
• 14:24
  I was, yeah, I know. I I loved seeing General Draven.
• 14:27
  Like, I have a soft spot for Draven.
• 14:29
  I really do. I know some people hate him, but
• 14:31
  I really like him. I like that actor.
• 14:33
  I think he's just the right amount of overstuffy.
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  Yes, and it's on the good side. Yeah, I mean, like, you have to
• 14:41
  have people like that if you want to succeed.
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  You might not be able to be friends with them, but he's a
• 14:45
  good leader. Yeah, absolutely.
• 14:47
  Yeah, that was, I enjoyed that. And they're like, OK, everything
• 14:51
  is very cross cut. So I feel like let's just talk
• 14:53
  about Stefan Yevin and then we can move into Gorman, even
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  though they are cross cutting a little bit because like what
• 15:00
  were your thoughts on like the force healer and and that
• 15:03
  moment? I don't know.
• 15:04
  I it's realistic that there would be one, right?
• 15:09
  And that they would be involved with the rebellion, Of course.
• 15:13
  I didn't think it made any sense at all.
• 15:17
  It kind of came out of nowhere all of a sudden.
• 15:21
  I it was like the wrong place. I don't know.
• 15:23
  It didn't do anything for me. I was just like, oh, we always
• 15:27
  have to have like something about the forest in there.
• 15:29
  And, and, but it makes sense that they would be on the
• 15:35
  rebellion side right there. They're also hiding.
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  Anyone with a force ability has to hide at this point.
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  And that's, that would be the side I would hide with.
• 15:43
  So she's using it for good. She's healing the soldiers and
• 15:49
  but I mean really, did we need it?
• 15:51
  Probably not. It to the greater arc of things.
• 15:53
  No, probably not. I was curious what you thought
• 15:56
  of the wording of Cassian is a Messenger.
• 16:04
  Yeah. Like, let's not make, let's not
• 16:08
  make his position in Rogue One ethereal.
• 16:12
  Let's just make it the strength of will and someone willing to
• 16:17
  sacrifice everything for A cause like we don't need to also I
• 16:21
  think, do we? Rogue One is about Jin, let's be
• 16:24
  honest. It's not about.
• 16:26
  Cassian. So if it starts to become like
• 16:29
  Cassian is chosen by the Force, like OK, I don't have AI, don't
• 16:32
  have a problem with that, that he's special.
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  They've always implied that from season 1.
• 16:38
  They implied it with Aldani that he was the only one who was
• 16:40
  getting shit done. They implied it in Narcena 5
• 16:43
  that he was able to like unite people.
• 16:46
  They implied it when they were showing Nimac's manifesto and
• 16:49
  then they would cut to Cassian when there were certain things
• 16:52
  being said about being basically the straw that breaks the
• 16:54
  camel's back as regards to like the empire collapsing.
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  It's true. Without him, Rogue One doesn't
• 17:00
  succeed. So yeah, maybe he is destined
• 17:03
  and that's fine with me. But like, it feels, yes, and it
• 17:09
  feels so forced here. They're like cramming it in all
• 17:13
  of a sudden without seeding it. You could literally say the same
• 17:17
  shit about Lutheran. None of this would have worked
• 17:19
  without Lutheran. Yes, and Lutheran later.
• 17:22
  He's like you appeared when I needed you.
• 17:24
  It's like everyone appears when you need them like this is.
• 17:27
  If you're a good leader, you will lead the people to success.
• 17:30
  And that includes Lutheran, that includes Mon, that includes
• 17:33
  Claya, it includes every single person in the rebellion because
• 17:37
  they're there by choice. Val, what about her?
• 17:42
  Seriously, seriously, Like they're all important.
• 17:46
  And Cassine even says like I'm nothing special, which is funny
• 17:52
  'cause I wrote that line about him in the fick that I wrote is
• 17:56
  like Tony Gilroy read my story. But he said like, there's, he
• 18:02
  said. There's like, the only thing
• 18:04
  special about me is that I'm lucky.
• 18:07
  Well, that's what somebody who doesn't feel special is gonna
• 18:09
  say. But really, there is something
• 18:11
  special about him. He's a good leader.
• 18:14
  He's a good leader and he like whether you wanna say the Force
• 18:17
  is with him or not. Like in Rogue One, Cassian still
• 18:20
  hasn't decided how he feels about the Force.
• 18:22
  This is true. This is true, he says.
• 18:24
  Like, I believe the force and I have different priorities, you
• 18:27
  know, like whether it's destined or not, he's not really buying
• 18:30
  into that. He's making decisions.
• 18:32
  Jen is the one with a fucking kyber crystal necklace, so yeah.
• 18:37
  And when the force healer says that he has been collecting
• 18:45
  things along the way, that's true of everyone.
• 18:49
  Yeah, that's very true of everyone, Yeah.
• 18:51
  We're a collection of every experience we've had.
• 18:53
  OK, if you want to call it destiny or whatever, Like that's
• 18:56
  the same for everybody. So I, I'm not opposed to this
• 18:59
  idea. I just feel like it was an
• 19:01
  afterthought that they're cramming in here all of a sudden
• 19:04
  at the end and doing it in a way that doesn't make much sense.
• 19:08
  Like why is Bix suddenly such a believer in the force that
• 19:12
  wasn't established and ever and all of a sudden she is super
• 19:15
  spiritual again? Like if you want us to dispel or
• 19:20
  disbelief, like I think that's one of the areas it would have
• 19:23
  been nice to see. Why is BIC suddenly different?
• 19:27
  Because it's really inconsistent with how she's been and it's
• 19:30
  weird in this case I think. It would make sense if they'd
• 19:34
  have tied it to her, the struggles that she's had 'cause
• 19:37
  she's had enough to try and rely on a higher source, like a a
• 19:43
  entity if you want to say. But like the force itself could
• 19:48
  move somebody in her position into a belief.
• 19:52
  Because when you're broken, you know your belief, whatever you
• 19:56
  believe in is going to hold you together.
• 19:58
  And that would have made sense. But again it.
• 20:06
  Yeah, it's like something is just, it's just not connecting.
• 20:09
  It's not just bad, it's just yeah, we're doing the same.
• 20:14
  Thing and gesture. One thing I did want to point
• 20:19
  out is very small thing, the Force healer is wearing this
• 20:21
  kind of like reddish top, and it's like a reflection of the
• 20:25
  undertunic that Jin's mother wears.
• 20:27
  Jin's mother wears like a red undertunic, and it's supposed to
• 20:30
  be a symbolic piece of clothing that represents a belief in the
• 20:35
  Force. Not necessarily that you're a
• 20:36
  Jedi, but that you believe in the power of the Force.
• 20:40
  That was a neat little reference there.
• 20:42
  Oh, that's fun. See, thank you for that.
• 20:44
  Yeah, so good. But off just a bit.
• 20:50
  Like I just kind of how I feel about this whole whole plot on
• 20:54
  Yavin. Everything else I don't have
• 20:56
  that feeling about really. But OK, so let's talk about
• 21:02
  Cyril and Dedra and Gorman. Oh my fucking God, this I have
• 21:08
  to admit. I mean, we're not.
• 21:09
  OK, Which part do you want to talk about before I get ahead of
• 21:12
  myself? Well, if we're still in episode
• 21:15
  7, it's before the brutality starts, so it's just like.
• 21:20
  Yeah, yeah. Like she's trying to set up
• 21:24
  everybody for what's going to happen in the next episode.
• 21:28
  It's sad that he he only gets it and he gets it too late.
• 21:34
  Yeah. He only saw it when it was so
• 21:39
  obvious he couldn't miss it. Poor Cyril.
• 21:42
  He never stood a chance in any of this, you know what I mean?
• 21:46
  And it's, there's a part of me, and I think it's intentional,
• 21:50
  where you feel bad for him just a little bit, that you could be
• 21:55
  so dumb that you can't. You can't believe.
• 21:59
  He's a good example of someone who can't believe that their own
• 22:05
  organization could be so evil. It's like, open your fucking
• 22:10
  eyes. You're living with the woman
• 22:14
  who's behind all of this now. She's in a chain of command.
• 22:18
  But she, like the one guy said, you're the trigger or I'm the
• 22:21
  trigger. You're the finger or something.
• 22:23
  Right? Yeah.
• 22:24
  Yeah. That this Cyril needed to get
• 22:28
  this like, years before he did. And he didn't.
• 22:31
  Or he was or it goes back to the point you made in the last
• 22:35
  episode where he's talking to his mother and kind of giving
• 22:40
  the propaganda. But does he believe it?
• 22:42
  Does he not believe it turns out he probably didn't believe it
• 22:46
  because he couldn't believe like he, he can't believe that the
• 22:49
  empire would do such a thing. And yet here we are in the midst
• 22:52
  of it like. Yeah.
• 22:55
  Cyril, please. But I loved how they filmed when
• 23:00
  the moment came, it was like him, like in slow motion, like
• 23:06
  absorbing it. He was in a fugue state.
• 23:09
  It was totally just yeah. I just wanted to say, oh sweet
• 23:15
  summer child, you know, like. I know he was.
• 23:21
  He reminds me of how we've talked about Savage Oppress
• 23:24
  where it's like you're just a, you're a pawn and.
• 23:27
  It's sad. I feel, look, I feel more bad
• 23:31
  for Savage oppressed than I do Cyril.
• 23:34
  But like Cyril, there really aren't words.
• 23:37
  I feel the most bad for his mother honestly.
• 23:41
  Yeah, she spent all this time talking down to him and now he's
• 23:46
  dead. Well, I don't feel bad for her
• 23:48
  for that. I feel bad for her because she
• 23:51
  wanted this and this is the result of what she wanted.
• 23:55
  And, and, and I've always said Star Wars is about choices and
• 23:59
  not a single one of them made the right choice.
• 24:01
  Not a single one of them. But a mother still loves their
• 24:04
  son. And like now she's, she has
• 24:05
  nobody but here, here. Maybe Deidre will go over and
• 24:09
  visit her, bring her a pie or something every now and.
• 24:15
  Be very awkward, man. The the scenes between Cyril and
• 24:20
  Dedra in in this first episode are so weird.
• 24:25
  And I again, why is she acting like this?
• 24:28
  What happened that changed Debra?
• 24:31
  Like why is she suddenly talking about being a hero and glory and
• 24:37
  good things are waiting for us back home.
• 24:39
  This is a woman who in season 1 did her job well 'cause she
• 24:44
  loved the job. She didn't care about accolades.
• 24:48
  I I don't understand that change.
• 24:51
  She has seemingly been using Cyril this whole time.
• 24:56
  So like the sympathy or the the remorse?
• 25:01
  I don't know if I understand that either.
• 25:05
  Like their interactions have been very weird and enjoyable,
• 25:09
  but like I I'm not sure that they make sense completely.
• 25:13
  Like especially on Deidre's side.
• 25:15
  Deidre's side I could never remember say her name correctly.
• 25:18
  Cyril totally makes sense to me. He's been used as a pawn now.
• 25:23
  The gore, no, he's full of shit. So he's ostracized from them and
• 25:28
  he's starting to realize that like what Dedra's telling him
• 25:31
  and the Empire saying does not match anything that he's been
• 25:35
  told to do by them. So like, he makes he makes sense
• 25:39
  to me. His meltdown makes complete
• 25:41
  sense. Yeah.
• 25:42
  What I'm seeing with Dedra is that like she is being treated
• 25:48
  differently now by Partigas. I don't know if you've noticed.
• 25:51
  He keeps her waiting all the time and keeps telling her calm
• 25:55
  down, relax. Right.
• 25:58
  Where is that coming from? I think what we're seeing with
• 26:01
  Debra and Partigas is she's also part of something she doesn't
• 26:07
  feel she's not totally included in.
• 26:10
  She's been fed a lot of lies and I'm sure she's been fed 80% of
• 26:14
  the truth from Partigas about what the hell is going on, which
• 26:19
  Partigas has been fed 50% the truth from Chronic, and
• 26:23
  Chronic's been fed 30% of the truth from Target and on and on
• 26:27
  and on, right? So nobody gets the full story
• 26:32
  because they're all expendable. That includes Dedra, and I think
• 26:36
  she started to kind of like Cyril because he's a little bit
• 26:39
  of a lap dog and she can always count on him.
• 26:43
  Whereas it's in the next episode, so I don't want to talk
• 26:46
  about it. What?
• 26:48
  I'm trying to say we're almost there.
• 26:50
  I know what I'm, what I'm trying to say is I think, I think there
• 26:55
  were doubts starting to form in Dedra's mind about a lot of
• 27:01
  stuff, but she has to push forward regardless.
• 27:05
  And it's, and it's making her upset and it's making her like
• 27:10
  she's there for a reason, but they're not giving her
• 27:13
  everything about this reason. And and she should know that
• 27:16
  this is part of it. Yeah, it feels kind of like
• 27:19
  they're undermining her a bit, right?
• 27:21
  Like she. Yeah, because here's the thing
• 27:23
  though, they could have plans to get rid of her.
• 27:24
  We know she doesn't make it to Rogue One.
• 27:26
  We just don't know how she ends, how this ends with her.
• 27:31
  Yeah. So I have full plans that they
• 27:33
  are going to dispose of her at some point.
• 27:37
  It's starting to feel that way because they're they're
• 27:39
  undermining her authority. They have this new guy, they
• 27:42
  bring in Kaido or Kaido, whatever his name is it.
• 27:45
  Would piss. That would piss me off.
• 27:46
  I I I feel for Deidre because that would piss me off no matter
• 27:50
  what the job is. Yeah.
• 27:52
  So it's like they're keeping her waiting.
• 27:54
  They're telling her to calm down, they're sending someone
• 27:57
  else to do, like to finish the project that she's been working
• 28:01
  on this whole time. So, yeah, her frustration makes
• 28:03
  a lot of sense to me. And she's like, OK, we just got
• 28:06
  to get through this and go home and it will be fine.
• 28:10
  We'll be rewarded, I'm sure. They told her that even though
• 28:12
  there is no reward, the reward is the success that happened on
• 28:16
  Gore. I can almost hear Tarkin saying
• 28:18
  it, you know? That should be its own reward.
• 28:23
  Yeah. Well, so the episode just ends
• 28:26
  with Cassian arriving in Gorman at the hotel and then we
• 28:32
  basically go into episode 8, which is.
• 28:35
  Just I was, I was actually surprised to see that the
• 28:38
  bellhop, the boy that he connected with, is now part of
• 28:42
  this. I like that.
• 28:44
  Yeah, there was a few new members to the Gorman front that
• 28:47
  was, you can tell, was as a result of what happened in the
• 28:51
  last arc. It was nice to see that guy
• 28:53
  because he has said that his, you know, I haven't gone very
• 28:56
  far, have I? You know, And it's like now he's
• 28:58
  doing something that's meaningful.
• 29:00
  His he, I loved him. He was such a good actor and he
• 29:03
  broke my heart, truly. The whole fucking episode 8
• 29:08
  broke my heart. It was so well done though.
• 29:11
  I mean, I was, I was, I had a visceral like my heart was
• 29:16
  pounding, I cried. There was all kinds of emotions
• 29:21
  going on that just the way they film this shit and and it was
• 29:23
  all like the gore. They must have built that set,
• 29:27
  right. That was the set that we
• 29:29
  referred to in the last episode. So I can only imagine the
• 29:33
  filming that went on and I the the father who said we can
• 29:38
  change this. It's a trap.
• 29:40
  It's a trap. It's like everybody realized it
• 29:44
  just a little too late, you know?
• 29:46
  It's just very sad. He seems so broken and desperate
• 29:52
  and that actor is really good. Yeah, yeah, he just loved his
• 29:58
  people. It it's no different than
• 30:01
  Ferrix. You know, you're trying to
• 30:03
  protect and. And the cheering and the
• 30:05
  chanting and the, and the song they sing, I have chills.
• 30:09
  The song they sang, Oh my God, Jesus.
• 30:13
  And you know what's going to happen.
• 30:18
  It really is a pretty much a reflection of Ferrick's.
• 30:22
  It's like, yeah, very parallel and it just has a much worse
• 30:27
  ending. I really love the episode
• 30:29
  though. I really did.
• 30:32
  For as heavy as it was, it hit home.
• 30:35
  And I did laugh. I laughed when Cyril and Cassian
• 30:42
  had their fight. I laughed.
• 30:45
  You laughed. Oh, I loved it.
• 30:47
  I loved it, but no, I didn't laugh because it wasn't good.
• 30:50
  I laughed because I'm like, here the fuck we go.
• 30:53
  It's the moment Cyril's been waiting for this is it y'all?
• 31:00
  And when he said who are you? Oh my God, doesn't that just sum
• 31:06
  up Cyril's life? Yeah, yeah.
• 31:09
  Oh my God, it really does the ultimate insult.
• 31:13
  And that's the last thing he ever hears.
• 31:16
  I felt bad for him. I did, too, and it was over so
• 31:19
  quickly. I I kind of like that they let
• 31:23
  Rylance shoot him. Yeah, Because that man deserved
• 31:26
  a little closure, even though it's sad that he was.
• 31:30
  He's supposed to be, you know, a a peaceful resistor and then
• 31:34
  said ended up reserving to murder.
• 31:37
  But. If there's anyone he was going
• 31:39
  to murder, it was Cyril, so. Yeah, the man who, like, brought
• 31:43
  them into his confidence and then betrayed them so badly and
• 31:46
  then led to this massacre. Yeah.
• 31:48
  It's kind of what Cyril deserved, to be perfectly
• 31:51
  honest, even though it's sad. But I loved watching him fight
• 31:54
  Cassian because Cyril had the drop on him, so he was able to
• 31:58
  like get some good punches in there and hit him with a metal
• 32:01
  pipe and shit. You're fighting a man who's been
• 32:04
  to prison like twice, and it's. True.
• 32:07
  Cassian really once he got the upper hand, just owned him and
• 32:11
  beat this. Shit, that's laughing.
• 32:14
  It was kind of great. I did laugh.
• 32:16
  I laughed really hard when he hit Cyril's head against the yin
• 32:19
  Yang window. Take this for your yin and your
• 32:25
  Yang, bitch. Oh my God, that.
• 32:29
  Was really funny. Oh, but he was Cassie was so
• 32:33
  close to shooting Didra. He was so close and and Cyril
• 32:38
  was the reason he missed that one time plane.
• 32:41
  He shows up and it's and Deezer's like what the fuck are
• 32:44
  you doing here? Get out of there.
• 32:47
  Like can't you go away for 5 minutes?
• 32:49
  I I can't I. I know the the parallels are are
• 32:54
  really beautiful. We're getting like ahead of
• 32:56
  ourselves even because there's this whole moment where Cyril
• 33:00
  goes into the crowd after like learning from Dedra that he's
• 33:04
  been upon he's been used. She's known about this the whole
• 33:07
  time. Yes, and like he sees the KX
• 33:09
  units, makes eye contact with I'm pretty sure K2.
• 33:13
  Oh yes. Then he goes out into the crowd
• 33:17
  and has this fugue state where he's just disassociating from
• 33:21
  his body for a moment it. Would totally.
• 33:23
  That would totally be me. That would 100% be me.
• 33:26
  But. Again, he has multiple
• 33:29
  opportunities to try to do the right thing.
• 33:31
  He could warn them. He could help people who are
• 33:34
  wounded. And he doesn't.
• 33:35
  He doesn't last act is an act of selfishness, attacking the man
• 33:40
  he's been fixated on instead of helping, he decides to like
• 33:43
  close his own loop, attack Cassian and it just like nothing
• 33:49
  could embody his personality more than all of that moment
• 33:53
  just. Totally, Yeah.
• 33:55
  I feel sorry for him, but he still didn't do the right thing.
• 33:58
  No, no, no, no, no, no, no. I I feel bad because he's so
• 34:01
  pathetic to be that pathetic I but Deidre does have him to
• 34:09
  thank for not getting a bullet through her forehead.
• 34:12
  Yeah, I wonder how he would feel knowing that he had thwarted
• 34:16
  that because he wasn't doing it on purpose, he was doing it for
• 34:18
  himself. 100% but yeah. And I when they started moving
• 34:27
  those barriers and they brought in the young troops because they
• 34:31
  knew they were going to shoot them, they were going to bring
• 34:33
  in their finest. They didn't want to waste their
• 34:35
  finest. Fuck you Empire, these people
• 34:38
  are trash. It's it was like sickening.
• 34:42
  Like when you finally put it all together it was like, oh wow,
• 34:46
  they planned that and executed it perfectly and that is fucked
• 34:51
  up. It's fucked up.
• 34:53
  That shit was that that is. That's grade A empire bullshit.
• 34:59
  And they had put a barricade around the memorial to keep
• 35:04
  people away from it, and then they pull the barrier away to
• 35:07
  draw people into it. Yes.
• 35:09
  On purpose and then they make a pathway that is intended to just
• 35:14
  cause trouble. It's it's and then when they
• 35:18
  showed the sniper, I'm like, he's going to shoot one of the
• 35:20
  Empire. Guys, as soon as I saw.
• 35:21
  Him, I'm like, he's not going to shoot someone in the crowd.
• 35:23
  The rebellious Gore are the ones that started it.
• 35:27
  Get the fuck out of here. I hate it.
• 35:29
  Was brilliant again, but I cannot stand the level of just
• 35:36
  brutality that the Empire is totally cool with executing.
• 35:40
  Just totally cool with it. It's fine in the grand scheme of
• 35:43
  things. How many people died?
• 35:46
  No big deal to them. Yeah, they don't care.
• 35:49
  Crazy. The thing that's really
• 35:52
  sickening is this is all based on stuff that's happened in real
• 35:55
  life. Oh, I know, I know and I know.
• 35:58
  For that to be the truth, it's pretty hard to to feel
• 36:06
  comfortable at all during these episodes.
• 36:09
  You know, this kind of stuff happens in real life.
• 36:11
  This is not just in Star Wars this and it's happened over and
• 36:14
  over. It's not like an isolated
• 36:16
  incident. This actually happens often
• 36:18
  throughout. History like this is human,
• 36:21
  which is disgusting. I mean, yeah, they're still
• 36:23
  good. They're still good.
• 36:25
  But we have to face what we've done.
• 36:29
  Yeah, what humans are willing to do to each other.
• 36:32
  Other animals don't do that. Just.
• 36:34
  Humans. Yeah.
• 36:36
  Yeah, because we have choice. And we have a tendency to choose
• 36:44
  I I don't want to be that person, but I do feel like
• 36:46
  sometimes humans are more likely to do bad than good.
• 36:49
  But. Yeah, well, the Empire is anyway
• 36:55
  they they will in it. They they love it.
• 36:59
  Bathe yourself in it. You know the way that fucking
• 37:02
  what's his name breathed in the the poisonous gas the the the
• 37:07
  Empire is breathing in blood of the bloodshed at this.
• 37:11
  I Yeah. Can we talk about Deidre's
• 37:13
  moment by herself afterwards? Oh yes, that's probably my
• 37:19
  favorite part of these three episodes That and Mon's speech.
• 37:22
  But Denise's performance where she straightens her jacket and
• 37:28
  tries to stop her hand from shaking, it was amazing to see
• 37:33
  her show some emotion after all of that.
• 37:36
  And I don't think any of it had to do with Cyril.
• 37:39
  She could care less, maybe just a smidge that he was out there
• 37:42
  and she knew it. But what they did, the
• 37:45
  unadulterated, just brutality of it all and knowing that she had
• 37:51
  the hand in it. I saw an interview where she
• 37:55
  said she wasn't like the character is not upset about the
• 37:58
  gore. What?
• 38:01
  Yeah. What is she upset about?
• 38:03
  Not Cyril. Cyril is what they've said,
• 38:06
  which doesn't make sense with the established like
• 38:09
  relationship. No, Yeah.
• 38:11
  No, no. I agree with you, that scene is
• 38:15
  fucking amazing, but the explanations I've heard about
• 38:17
  I'm like that doesn't make any sense.
• 38:21
  I don't, I don't accept that. I'm sorry, Denise, but your
• 38:24
  performance nonetheless. I listen.
• 38:28
  Let me have a moment where I think that she has some humanity
• 38:32
  left in her. Some any whether it's Cyril or
• 38:35
  or the larger population, at least there's some sign that
• 38:41
  something bothered her. Yeah.
• 38:44
  But the way that her face they like honed in on her eyes and
• 38:46
  she was like, like, I don't know if they just went with no makeup
• 38:50
  or purple makeup or whatever, but her eyes are really
• 38:54
  prominently bulging. Like she has very strong
• 38:58
  features anyways. But the fact that she was so
• 39:02
  tight. Like.
• 39:05
  She was very drawn and and the the jacket straightening really
• 39:10
  did it for me because put on that brave face girl, because
• 39:14
  you are the empire. This is what the Empire does.
• 39:18
  And if you don't stop that hand shaking, you will be executed
• 39:21
  right after they get done with those outside.
• 39:25
  And she knows. They eat you alive.
• 39:27
  Well, and it was such an interesting parallel too to what
• 39:29
  we had talked about in the first arc with Mon Motha.
• 39:32
  Mon Mothma just had a stroke for a second, sorry but she would
• 39:39
  like wipes the tear away and then goes into the wedding.
• 39:43
  This is a very similar vibe honestly.
• 39:50
  Being eaten alive by your own feelings and Nope, you don't
• 39:53
  have time. You got to no show showing no
• 39:56
  weakness at all. The when she had to stop her
• 40:00
  hand from Shay, I just thought that whole I, I don't know how
• 40:02
  many times they must have shot that, but if I I just think she
• 40:05
  did. I I just, I'm always interested
• 40:08
  in like the behind the scenes, like what's going on?
• 40:11
  Did she add the hand thing like last minute or just the little
• 40:15
  touches? It's just very effective.
• 40:17
  It was very effective. I would have been interested to
• 40:21
  to learn more about that. She's she's a really good
• 40:24
  actress. She does.
• 40:26
  She does this role well. Like the way she's like, clawing
• 40:29
  at her collar. She's like choked by her own
• 40:32
  uniform. I find that very symbolic.
• 40:34
  Like damn. Yeah.
• 40:37
  Can we talk about the KX units? Oh my God, my God, we got.
• 40:45
  Terrifying. Terrifying.
• 40:47
  Now we know what a gentle giant he turned into after what he was
• 40:52
  meant for. I just love when he goes, Cyril
• 40:55
  goes in the room and they're there and they turn their head.
• 40:57
  But it's, I'm assuming it's K2 whose eyes is the eyes.
• 41:00
  I was like, I know that one right there.
• 41:04
  I know him. I had the exact same thought and
• 41:09
  is everyone else turns back but that one unit just keeps still
• 41:13
  looking. There's been something in his
• 41:16
  programming since day one that made him sassy, that made him
• 41:19
  just a little off. And I'm here for it.
• 41:21
  I love him with my whole heart. The way they.
• 41:25
  They're like brute. Force.
• 41:26
  It's not even. They don't even come out with
• 41:27
  weapons, they just throw bodies around, and that was terrifying.
• 41:33
  And when they killed Enza that way, that was upsetting.
• 41:36
  That was very upsetting. And she tried to scramble to
• 41:39
  get, I mean, I felt fear in me. I'm like, Oh my gosh, she's not
• 41:41
  going to make it. I can't like, and you can't
• 41:44
  shoot them. They have no weak point.
• 41:46
  Yes, they're crazy. You literally got to smash it
• 41:50
  with a car. Right in the middle where the
• 41:54
  where the wiring is. I mean sever it that was that
• 41:59
  was terrible. It was so frightening, but like
• 42:02
  really well edited because I my pulse was like this whole
• 42:06
  episode. I felt like I was on the verge
• 42:08
  of an anxiety attack. It was.
• 42:09
  Me too, I had to. I was sitting in my seat.
• 42:13
  I'm on a fucking high speed ferry with hundreds of other
• 42:16
  people and I'm watching this shit going Oh my God, I'm trying
• 42:19
  to not wiggle and all this stuff.
• 42:21
  And I was just like, Oh my God, I was like sweating it bad.
• 42:25
  I was. Shaking it was it was my
• 42:28
  heartbeat I I felt like I put my hand around my neck to feel my
• 42:32
  pulse and I was like this is crazy that but it's the constant
• 42:36
  chanting this and then it turned into a more somber song like
• 42:40
  chanting makes you feel a certain way it's.
• 42:43
  And the horn blowing. And the horn, it's yeah.
• 42:46
  I oh. It's too much.
• 42:51
  One of our patrons said that they checked their like Fitbit
• 42:54
  or something. Their pulse was visibly.
• 42:59
  Oh my God, I should go back and check mine from that day.
• 43:02
  I should. Maybe I'll do that.
• 43:03
  Should. Holy shit.
• 43:04
  Be really funny to. See, my blood pressure's high as
• 43:06
  it is just, you know, being Italian and shit, so Oh my God.
• 43:15
  Well, after after the worst of the chaos, they do that overlay
• 43:20
  of Drina is the the girl whom Will is is in love with Drina.
• 43:25
  Drina goes back to the headquarters and starts trying
• 43:28
  to radio out. Her voice gave me chills.
• 43:33
  It brought me to tears. That's when I cried too, yeah.
• 43:37
  Desperation. Yes, she says.
• 43:39
  Is there no one who can help us? It's like, no, because the rest
• 43:43
  of the Galaxy has been told a lot of propaganda and no one
• 43:45
  cares about them anymore. Oh, it's giving me goosebumps,
• 43:50
  No. If they did show up, they would
• 43:53
  be executed as well. Their planet would be at stake.
• 43:56
  It's one of these. Nobody wins and everyone loses.
• 44:01
  Yeah. Because a, a senator for another
• 44:06
  planet is not going to risk their planet or their army.
• 44:13
  They're in too deep at this point.
• 44:15
  I mean, that's what makes Mon's performance, Genevieve's
• 44:20
  performance, I should say her performance is I was bawling in
• 44:27
  public. Yeah.
• 44:29
  You know, but. It was it.
• 44:31
  It was very moving. The last line of the episode is
• 44:38
  a a broadcast that Edie is watching and the last line says,
• 44:43
  and the price will pay for our own safety.
• 44:46
  It's an empire broadcast that gave me chills.
• 44:50
  And it was just like, no shit. That's a great because what
• 44:53
  they're doing is using this as one more excuse to quote, make
• 44:56
  everything safer. But what they're doing is taking
• 44:59
  more and more freedoms away. I don't know if that reminds
• 45:04
  anybody of anything, but it reminds me of something.
• 45:08
  Some things, both current and historical.
• 45:11
  Well, what you were saying about this, no senator being willing
• 45:17
  like that, this pulls us right into episode 9 very beautifully,
• 45:21
  because the whole episode is just about Mon Mothma's
• 45:25
  transition now. Yeah, and now we know why Bail
• 45:30
  is involved. Why Bail?
• 45:31
  We needed a Bail stand in. He didn't.
• 45:35
  Did see, I did see Tony Gilroy say that he introduced him in
• 45:39
  the last arc because he didn't want to shock people, which is
• 45:42
  what I. Was saying that's what you said.
• 45:44
  I miss Jimmy, but I was OK with it because we got it out of our
• 45:48
  system from the last week. So thank you, Tony, for setting
• 45:50
  us up and setting all of all of this up.
• 45:54
  Yeah, he did a good job. I thought he did a good job.
• 45:56
  I thought he did, too. I didn't think for more than two
• 45:59
  seconds. You know, it's Bail Organa.
• 46:02
  I love him regardless because he's a good human, period, you
• 46:05
  know? Yeah, I think he did a he
• 46:08
  brought the nice dignity to the character and he brought the the
• 46:11
  stature and also his warmth was there as well.
• 46:15
  So I appreciated all of. That yeah, all the all the boxes
• 46:17
  were checked for for the pale character.
• 46:20
  I felt so heartbroken for that, the Gore senator being arrested
• 46:25
  at the beginning and he shouts, will no one help me just.
• 46:28
  Exactly. Exactly.
• 46:32
  And it's like he will be forgotten.
• 46:34
  Is he? He's going to get thrown in some
• 46:35
  prison. Is anyone ever going to go break
• 46:37
  him out? He was arrested for just being
• 46:39
  gore, not for doing anything. No, this shit happens all the
• 46:43
  time too in real life. This.
• 46:46
  Gross. Yeah.
• 46:49
  Yeah, it's, it's heavy. He also didn't really help his
• 46:54
  people, so go ahead and get carried off because he didn't
• 46:58
  really do much. Not that anyone would have led
• 47:01
  him anyway. It's true.
• 47:03
  It's true. They set him up for this very
• 47:05
  moment. They set all of this up for
• 47:08
  Gore, I mean, and they did it over a course of years.
• 47:11
  He said. I think the last episode, he
• 47:13
  said they don't even bother to lie well anymore.
• 47:16
  Like they, they don't even care to, like, hide the lies now,
• 47:19
  Yeah. Well, why should they?
• 47:22
  It's working. Yeah.
• 47:25
  The amount of stress that Mon must have been under to write
• 47:29
  and then perform this speech and all I could think of when her
• 47:35
  pod comes out before she's getting ready to speak is that
• 47:39
  Padme would be so proud. I.
• 47:42
  Know, I know. I thought of Padme, how often
• 47:46
  she stood there and tried to be a voice for the underdog, you
• 47:49
  know? Yeah.
• 47:51
  And fucking a you know here. I know.
• 47:56
  I cried so hard. I did too.
• 47:59
  I was disturbed beyond belief by this episode.
• 48:04
  Disturbed because it's so fucking real.
• 48:06
  Yeah, exactly. The the line about, you know,
• 48:09
  the what we know to be true and what is said is an abyss.
• 48:13
  Yes, yes, it was stinging a little bit.
• 48:17
  Yeah, it was. It was deeply upsetting.
• 48:21
  And in a cup with them trying to stop it being televised.
• 48:26
  Like heaven forbid we allow anyone to hear an opposing view.
• 48:32
  When they kept saying the the resistance to empire norms
• 48:36
  right. Like that makes me sick to my
• 48:40
  stomach. So basically you can't have an
• 48:43
  independent nation or independent thoughts because you
• 48:47
  have to have the behaviors and thoughts that the Empire says
• 48:51
  are OK, and if you aren't agreeing with that, then you're
• 48:56
  not worth keeping around. That's.
• 48:59
  I want everyone to to hear what Lauren just said for for
• 49:04
  everyone who watched, who understood it OK, who really
• 49:08
  understood it. And I would follow man Mothma to
• 49:12
  the ends of this planet because she is one of the bravest
• 49:15
  characters I have ever seen ever and we need more real life
• 49:20
  figures like her on this planet. Yeah, but, and like you said,
• 49:28
  the stress she must have been under, I kind of noticed that by
• 49:32
  the time she finds out Erskine is working for Lutheran, she's
• 49:37
  very stripped back in her appearance.
• 49:41
  You know, we've seen her true decked out to the nines, and by
• 49:45
  this point she doesn't have anyone she really feels safe
• 49:49
  with. Imagine that.
• 49:51
  That's crazy. Crazy.
• 49:54
  That would cause so much angst. Yeah, and she still has the
• 49:58
  strength to go forward knowing that it could be the ultimate
• 50:01
  sacrifice that she's making. And there's no reference to her
• 50:06
  husband or her daughter or anything.
• 50:08
  It's just just. That's it.
• 50:10
  That's it. I was thinking about how Perrin
• 50:11
  wasn't a parent. Perrin was nowhere to be found,
• 50:16
  and that's fine because he's an accessory and.
• 50:20
  Yeah. Just like.
• 50:24
  Persecuted as her ally if he doesn't speak out against her.
• 50:29
  That there was a very deliberate line that I didn't hear the
• 50:31
  first time I watched it. I I'm glad I watched with
• 50:33
  subtitles because she says in the days to come, I hope my my
• 50:38
  reputation will speak for itself, for people who know me
• 50:42
  to remember this instead of letting the empire just, you
• 50:47
  know, blacklist her basically. So really good.
• 50:51
  Point. Yeah, and the fact that both
• 50:53
  those senators both or Ghana and I forget whoever the the lady
• 50:57
  was who yielded the floor to bail, who yielded the floor to
• 50:59
  MA. Yes, yes.
• 51:01
  Like they're going to be lumped in with her as well.
• 51:04
  Any friend she ever had will be suspected now.
• 51:09
  Yeah, and. But only Ma knows that Bail, if
• 51:12
  Bail has to play another side, to keep going.
• 51:15
  She knows that. That's why he's doing it.
• 51:17
  They had their moment. And I, I respect that, 'cause we
• 51:19
  know Bale ends up like in a year.
• 51:22
  He's on Yavin with her. Yeah.
• 51:24
  And that's how he goes to Leia and begins what we know happens.
• 51:29
  Yes, when the Gore senator is being arrested, he says like
• 51:34
  he's shouting my people today, your people tomorrow, and they
• 51:37
  cut to Bale. Yeah, yeah.
• 51:40
  And when Mothma in her speech talks about genocide, then they
• 51:43
  cut to bail. Yep, it says all the stuff.
• 51:47
  It's so painful. It's so.
• 51:49
  Heartbreaking. It's really well done.
• 51:53
  It is really well done. Can I also say like I have had a
• 51:57
  head cannon from day one of Rogue one that Cassian is the
• 52:01
  one who rescues Mon Mothma now it's now it's cannon I loved.
• 52:07
  That it was Cassian. Because I have chills again.
• 52:11
  The hair on my arms are standing up.
• 52:14
  I think it's very interesting that Mon is in a position right
• 52:18
  now where she can't. She doesn't know who to trust.
• 52:21
  She has no idea who she's going to be leaving with.
• 52:23
  Because one side's telling her this, the other side's telling
• 52:25
  her that she knows there's two groups, whatever.
• 52:27
  And the line that Cassian delivers is I have friends
• 52:30
  everywhere. And that's really what Mon needs
• 52:34
  to know is that she has friends everywhere.
• 52:38
  She just doesn't realize it. And it's in and the fact that
• 52:41
  Cassian Andor is the one who delivers her to, I mean,
• 52:48
  eventually to to Yavin, you know, gets her out of here, I
• 52:51
  should say, is just chef's kiss, because not only does he
• 53:00
  essentially blow up the Death Star, I mean, you know, hand in
• 53:03
  it. He has a hand in getting her.
• 53:05
  I mean, he is a pivot point for all of this rebellion shit.
• 53:11
  It's really amazing. And it's not luck, Cassian.
• 53:15
  It's because that's why trust you.
• 53:18
  That's why I feel like the idea that maybe he's like touched by
• 53:21
  the force. Yeah OK cuz he made Aldani
• 53:23
  happen, which is the thing that launched the rebellion.
• 53:26
  He got man Mothma now, which is the thing that is solidifying
• 53:29
  the rebellion. And then he helps Jin finish
• 53:33
  sending the deaths are plants. Without her without him, she
• 53:36
  wouldn't have been able to do it right.
• 53:38
  He makes it possible for her to succeed.
• 53:40
  So like he's the the like center of the rebellion's success.
• 53:44
  And maybe the idea that like the force kind of chose him a little
• 53:49
  bit. I'm I'm not opposed to that.
• 53:51
  I'm not opposed to it, I just don't think of it right away
• 53:54
  when I think of this story. Yeah, 'cause we don't really
• 53:56
  talk about the force in this story at all.
• 54:00
  And just the way he builds trust with her.
• 54:04
  Because when Luthan tells her the night before I have friends
• 54:08
  everywhere, and then he says I have friends everywhere, the way
• 54:11
  he says it is like a threat like, like friends like that
• 54:15
  would scare me if I was her. Because it's like, are you
• 54:18
  helping me or are you threatening me?
• 54:20
  And like him, they've kind of like lost trust with each other
• 54:23
  in a way. So for Cassian to build trust
• 54:26
  with her and protect her in a way that she's not yet, she
• 54:32
  doesn't really realize how necessary it is until he's shot
• 54:35
  like two people in front of her and she's like, what are you
• 54:38
  doing? Seriously, like he took some
• 54:41
  serious chances. He can never go back.
• 54:44
  Like this is that's it. This is it for them.
• 54:47
  That's it. It's on.
• 54:50
  Like Oh my God, it. Was really, I have to say it was
• 54:53
  like super sexy the most. He's I wasn't expecting you to
• 54:59
  say that. I love, I love seeing him in,
• 55:02
  like such command of his ability.
• 55:05
  Like he's so centered and he doesn't get rattled even though
• 55:08
  I would be scared shitless. And he's telling her like, don't
• 55:11
  run, slow down. And then at the end where her
• 55:14
  driver, Chlorus is coming towards them.
• 55:17
  Yeah. And she's like, no, no, no, he's
• 55:19
  an ISP agent. He's like, what's his name?
• 55:20
  And he's like Chorus. I found her exactly.
• 55:22
  Shoots him. It's like holy shit, like he
• 55:26
  just controls everything. It's awesome.
• 55:30
  It really is. It actually is.
• 55:33
  He takes chances and they work out.
• 55:37
  But. Yeah.
• 55:38
  He's a thinker too. He's not just an act, a react.
• 55:42
  He never reacts. He's always in control, like you
• 55:45
  said. He has a lot of forethought.
• 55:48
  It's no wonder that Lutheran assigned him this immense task,
• 55:54
  you know? I don't think anyone else could
• 55:57
  have done it honestly, and I didn't understand how they knew
• 56:03
  Bale's team was compromised until I rewatched the episodes.
• 56:08
  Yeah cuz you know how they have that sleeper agent?
• 56:11
  The woman who's the double agent, it's because she's
• 56:14
  working for Lonnie. She's on Lonnie's team.
• 56:18
  And there's a moment where they say, you know, supervisor
• 56:21
  Young's agent is on the line. And I was like, oh, that's how
• 56:24
  Luther knows cuz Lonnie is controlling the a double agent
• 56:28
  and he told Lutheran. I was like.
• 56:31
  Oh that that I didn't catch that.
• 56:33
  Thank you for explaining that. Damn though, I didn't.
• 56:36
  That's the little lines like that that sometimes I don't hear
• 56:39
  and I'm confused. I have to rewatch the subtitles.
• 56:42
  Yeah, So it was. Yeah, it was really cool.
• 56:46
  And then the scene of Cassian driving away with Mon in the
• 56:49
  back seat was so reminiscent. Reminiscent, Yep.
• 56:53
  Of like how Marva was flying away with Cassian and then
• 56:58
  Luther was flying away with Cassian, and now the it's
• 57:01
  switched where he is the one rescuing somebody.
• 57:05
  It was very good. Well, we have to talk about the
• 57:10
  end. End.
• 57:11
  Yeah, the end. End.
• 57:12
  Yeah, which I know you have strong feelings about because
• 57:15
  you hinted at You hinted but told me nothing.
• 57:17
  So I will let you have the floor because the end is Bix sending a
• 57:24
  cheap. I have personal feelings about
• 57:26
  this. A cheap ass letter.
• 57:29
  She sent him a text. She sent him a letter.
• 57:32
  She's a fucking cat. I mean, I don't care who you
• 57:37
  are. Do not send someone you care
• 57:41
  about a written or spoken letter to break up with them.
• 57:46
  I'm just saying, yeah, I don't care how long you've known them.
• 57:51
  A week? A century?
• 57:54
  Don't do it. It's the act of a coward and she
• 57:58
  says that. She did say it, so at least she
• 58:00
  understood it, but that does not absolve her of this.
• 58:03
  OK, you can have the floor. Well, I'll start just by
• 58:10
  pointing out the beautiful parallel of Marva in this
• 58:15
  because Marva couldn't go, you know, she says you can't stay
• 58:19
  and I can't go. And again, it's just so fucking
• 58:21
  heartbreaking. Casting just keeps trying to
• 58:23
  like find that quiet little solitude and no one will let him
• 58:27
  have it. And he's saying the same thing
• 58:30
  with Bix, like I, I want you, like I'm choosing you and I, it
• 58:35
  makes no sense as the character, right?
• 58:38
  This character needs to be committed already to the
• 58:41
  rebellion. And instead he's spent the whole
• 58:43
  arc talking about how he wants to leave.
• 58:46
  It's just out of character and I I just, I don't like that, but
• 58:50
  whatever, OK, I can. Clea, Clea, she, she clocks him
• 58:55
  because she said, oh, you must be exhausted because.
• 58:58
  Yeah, yeah. You don't have time to be
• 59:01
  exhausted because they're all exhausted, OK?
• 59:04
  Yeah, and she's like, you just saw the Gorman massacre with
• 59:06
  your own eyes. One would think there'd be no
• 59:09
  stopping you. Exactly.
• 59:11
  OK, yeah, go ahead. So that all gets undermined by
• 59:16
  Bix's letter, Basically, yeah, she makes the choice for him,
• 59:21
  and that is not what a hero would do.
• 59:24
  That's not it. No, I agree.
• 59:26
  Yeah. It moves Castian's motivation
• 59:29
  from being internal of like having a conscience and
• 59:31
  believing something, to being propelled by an external force,
• 59:36
  which is not what a hero does as as regarding like the hero's
• 59:40
  journey, Right? So to me, it shits on his
• 59:47
  motivations in Rogue One because now what?
• 59:50
  Is he fighting because his girlfriend told him to?
• 59:52
  Because he wants his girlfriend back?
• 59:55
  Because he hopes she's out there somewhere?
• 59:57
  He was supposed to be fighting for a greater good, not 'cause
• 1:00:00
  someone told him to, but because he believed that himself.
• 1:00:05
  I hate everything about this. It it goes against him wanting
• 1:00:10
  to make his own decisions 'cause he didn't.
• 1:00:13
  Yeah, she she said. I'm choosing for the both of us.
• 1:00:16
  I'm choosing the rebellion once again taking agency from the
• 1:00:20
  character. No woman or man should make a
• 1:00:24
  decision for somebody else. That is actually that's a
• 1:00:28
  gaslighting and an abusive thing that people say in
• 1:00:32
  relationships. Thank you.
• 1:00:35
  Let me provide a different perspective because I've been
• 1:00:39
  thinking about this and it's been bothering me, this whole
• 1:00:43
  thing. I can't believe that Tony would
• 1:00:45
  do this. OK, and, and what?
• 1:00:47
  Who is his brother? Who's the other?
• 1:00:49
  The writer. Of Dan I I'm trying to find
• 1:00:53
  something. I want to believe that this was
• 1:00:59
  her removing herself as the distraction so he could go all
• 1:01:02
  in because I would hate to be the the reason that someone is
• 1:01:07
  distracted from what they're really there for.
• 1:01:11
  Don't like if he he's allowed to want peace and love and to get
• 1:01:17
  away from it. The fact that he thinks he could
• 1:01:20
  is crazy to me because this is a galactic issue.
• 1:01:26
  It will find you even if you get a few years of peace.
• 1:01:30
  Like we know this right? So is he naive?
• 1:01:34
  Is he desperate? What what is happening?
• 1:01:37
  We don't know, but I just, I want to believe that Bick saw
• 1:01:41
  herself as a stepping stone that didn't need to be there as she
• 1:01:45
  removed herself so that he could realize his full potential and
• 1:01:47
  go all in. That's the only way that I'm OK,
• 1:01:51
  like slightly OK with this. But it was.
• 1:01:53
  It did not need to happen. What should have happened to be
• 1:01:57
  better to if they had to get rid of Bicks, have her go to Gore a
• 1:02:03
  Gorman with him and be another unexpected casualty?
• 1:02:08
  Yeah. And then he could come back,
• 1:02:10
  ready for revenge or something. A renewed sense of.
• 1:02:13
  Purpose. Yeah, yes, yes.
• 1:02:16
  Or he should have. Like he should have been the one
• 1:02:19
  to choose it one way or another. One way or another.
• 1:02:22
  And then if she leaves, she leaves.
• 1:02:24
  That's her choice. I don't know where the fuck
• 1:02:27
  she's going to go. Like where does she think she's
• 1:02:29
  going to go? She chose the rebellion.
• 1:02:31
  Well, where's she going to go like?
• 1:02:33
  Go back to Lutheran. I mean, there's still the chance
• 1:02:36
  that she might die in the next episode arc.
• 1:02:39
  And if she doesn't and Rogue One plays?
• 1:02:41
  Out and she's. Out there waiting for him, quote
• 1:02:45
  UN quote. I hate that.
• 1:02:47
  It's weird. It's it's not good for any of
• 1:02:50
  the characters. It's also everyone's like it's
• 1:02:52
  so romantic. It's not romantic to tell
• 1:02:55
  another person and what they believe that's not.
• 1:02:59
  That's like a false sense of modern day romance where I know
• 1:03:03
  what you need. Like that's insulting to a
• 1:03:06
  person's intelligence. And it really pisses me off
• 1:03:10
  because they also have set him up this whole arc.
• 1:03:13
  He knows what he wants and it's not in keeping with what Rogue
• 1:03:18
  One has. So they have to force him back
• 1:03:20
  around because the writing has put him in the wrong place.
• 1:03:24
  Yeah. By this other character.
• 1:03:26
  It is bad writing. It's not a good story arc.
• 1:03:29
  It really frustrates me. It's beautifully written, acted
• 1:03:34
  and cinematography. It's gorgeous.
• 1:03:36
  Everyone did a great job. It really undermined the
• 1:03:39
  characters and I really found it frustrating to be perfectly
• 1:03:43
  honest. Did you feel just as strongly
• 1:03:46
  the second time you watched it? Because I've only seen it once.
• 1:03:50
  Yeah. Did it reinforce what you felt
• 1:03:52
  OK? It did even more so and I
• 1:03:54
  actually had to like write down why because I I couldn't quite
• 1:03:57
  articulate it at first. I was just like, this feels
• 1:04:00
  weird. It doesn't feel right.
• 1:04:02
  I didn't like it when I saw it. I didn't sit right with me.
• 1:04:06
  But again, I was in a weird, you know, I didn't have that when I
• 1:04:10
  watched it by myself and I was writing notes and I could feel
• 1:04:12
  it out and pause it and this whole thing and I still, it
• 1:04:16
  still didn't sit right with me. I don't like when this happens
• 1:04:20
  with characters. I I think it's, I think it's
• 1:04:23
  easy. I think it's lazy.
• 1:04:26
  It felt cheap. It felt like an afterthought,
• 1:04:28
  like stuff it in there to like, we got to tie up some loose
• 1:04:32
  ends. We'll do it this it's like.
• 1:04:33
  If they don't come to some sort of concrete resolution with it
• 1:04:37
  in the next three episodes, I will be extremely pissed off
• 1:04:40
  because of what it implies for Rogue One and Cassian's
• 1:04:43
  character. 100% thousand. Percent, Cassian is a very
• 1:04:47
  intelligent and intuitive person.
• 1:04:49
  He should have realized that. Watching Marva suffer, watching
• 1:04:53
  Clem get murdered in front of him, watching all of Ferrick's
• 1:04:57
  get destroyed, watching where's he from Tenari, watching it
• 1:05:05
  destroyed in a quote mining accident, seeing the gore
• 1:05:09
  murdered right in front of him. Eldani.
• 1:05:11
  These things aren't enough to make him choose.
• 1:05:15
  It's his girlfriend leaving that makes him choose.
• 1:05:18
  Seriously guys like way to weaken the character.
• 1:05:23
  I don't think that he totally chooses it because she laughed.
• 1:05:27
  I may need to see it again, but I have a hard time believing
• 1:05:31
  that he would do that. Like something ain't right with
• 1:05:35
  this scene. It will all rest on what happens
• 1:05:38
  in the next three episodes. And I don't think that's right.
• 1:05:41
  I don't think they should have done something that needs to
• 1:05:43
  rest on the shoulders of three more episodes.
• 1:05:47
  Yeah. How about we don't do this
• 1:05:50
  period? Shit, I think, I really feel
• 1:05:54
  like they backed themselves into a corner and had to find a way
• 1:05:57
  out of it. And the way they chose to get
• 1:06:00
  out of it was fast and easy and not right.
• 1:06:05
  It was not the right choice. That's my personal opinion.
• 1:06:08
  I know a lot of people disagree with me, but that's fine.
• 1:06:10
  It's listen, it's our podcast. We are all individuals and how
• 1:06:17
  we view this media is is just fine.
• 1:06:20
  How we view it. We can all have our own way of
• 1:06:23
  viewing it. But I will say this, everyone
• 1:06:25
  has gotten some sort of speech in in.
• 1:06:29
  I almost said Rogue One in and or Cassian better get his in one
• 1:06:36
  of the next three episodes. I've heard of people say he
• 1:06:40
  won't get any because his speech is in Rogue One.
• 1:06:43
  I guess all right. He also had a bit of one at the
• 1:06:46
  beginning of episode one with that, that poor girl who there
• 1:06:51
  was that. But like at the same time, if
• 1:06:54
  we're going to rap, I mean, I don't fucking know.
• 1:06:56
  I don't, I don't know. I would I would really like to
• 1:06:59
  see the character have like a full emotional experience just
• 1:07:04
  once. Yeah.
• 1:07:05
  I realized last night there's all these long shots of Cassian
• 1:07:09
  staring, disassociating with maybe like an on Gorman was the
• 1:07:13
  first time a single tear like went down his face.
• 1:07:16
  He's lost Marva. And like all these moments where
• 1:07:20
  he just stares in shock. Can we have one moment where he
• 1:07:24
  like, has a complete experience, like finalizes himself as a
• 1:07:30
  human being and moves on into Rogue One with a sense of humor?
• 1:07:33
  Because there is a lightness and a sense of humor in Rogue One in
• 1:07:37
  the character that is completely missing.
• 1:07:39
  Well, K2 does come into his life now, as we know.
• 1:07:44
  I think K is the relationship he's always needed.
• 1:07:48
  It's literally is if K2 replaces Bix and they have the
• 1:07:53
  relationship that was meant to be.
• 1:07:55
  I'm fine with that, Totally fine.
• 1:07:57
  His. It was so good to hear what's
• 1:07:59
  his? What's his name's voice?
• 1:08:01
  Alan Tudig, Yeah. Yes, thank you.
• 1:08:03
  It was so good to hear him again and I laughed out loud when we
• 1:08:08
  do Yeah. Would you please point that
• 1:08:10
  thing and the eyes, the eyes, the eyes are something.
• 1:08:13
  I I just. And even the way he says hello.
• 1:08:18
  Yeah, I know. Yay, I just have to say that
• 1:08:24
  this block of episodes left me feeling as depressed as the
• 1:08:27
  Narkeno 5 ones, so it was every block of episodes I have the
• 1:08:33
  exact same emotional state. So I'm hoping.
• 1:08:37
  The next three I will feel like in the last season where I feel
• 1:08:40
  good at the end and like hopeful, but we'll.
• 1:08:43
  No, no, no, that's not possible because if we don't get fucking
• 1:08:49
  gin, okay? Like the clock is running out,
• 1:08:53
  it's running down please. He's supposed to know she exists
• 1:08:58
  by the time Rogue One starts. Jesus, guys.
• 1:09:01
  This they got 3 episodes bitch and if they don't do it, they
• 1:09:05
  they have to they have to Jin Urso is the reason for rogue
• 1:09:10
  one. Hello please please.
• 1:09:13
  Please don't lose sight of that. Jesus.
• 1:09:15
  She's the main character. Yeah.
• 1:09:17
  Come on, we. Need we need a concurrent series
• 1:09:21
  titled Urso like you said in the last set of episodes?
• 1:09:24
  I'm still thinking about that. People's shit on that idea.
• 1:09:28
  So Hardy Rogue One is that I'm like, I think it would be
• 1:09:31
  interesting to see, but fine. OK, so how would you like to
• 1:09:39
  wrap this up? I think we should do a full read
• 1:09:43
  of Mon Mothma's speech because we read Luthan's from last
• 1:09:48
  season, so we should probably read Mon Mothma's speech.
• 1:09:53
  I love it. For those who love it, hate it,
• 1:09:57
  feel anything in between, here it is.
• 1:10:00
  Let's do it. Fellow senators, friends,
• 1:10:05
  colleagues, allies, adversaries, I stand before you this morning
• 1:10:09
  with a heavy heart. I've spent my life in this
• 1:10:12
  chamber. I came here as a child, and as I
• 1:10:15
  look around now, I realize I have almost no memories that
• 1:10:18
  predate my arrival and few bonds of affection that cleave so
• 1:10:22
  tightly. Through these many years.
• 1:10:24
  I believe I have served my constituents honorably and
• 1:10:27
  upheld our code of conduct. This chamber is a cauldron of
• 1:10:31
  opinions, and we've certainly all had our patience and tempers
• 1:10:34
  tested in pursuit of our ideals. Disagree as we might, I am
• 1:10:39
  hopeful that those of you who know me will vouch for my
• 1:10:41
  credibility in the days to come. I stand this morning with a
• 1:10:45
  difficult message. I believe we are in crisis.
• 1:10:49
  The distance between what is said and what is known to be
• 1:10:51
  true has become an abyss. Of all the things at risk, the
• 1:10:55
  loss of an objective reality is perhaps the most dangerous.
• 1:10:59
  The death of truth is the ultimate victory of evil.
• 1:11:03
  When truth leaves us, when we let it slip away, when it is
• 1:11:07
  ripped from our hands, we become vulnerable to the appetite of
• 1:11:10
  whatever monster screams the loudest.
• 1:11:13
  This chambers hold on. The truth was finally lost on
• 1:11:16
  the Gorman Plaza. What took place yesterday, what
• 1:11:20
  happened yesterday on Gorman was unprovoked genocide.
• 1:11:24
  Yes, genocide. And that truth has been exiled
• 1:11:28
  from this chamber. And the monster screaming the
• 1:11:31
  loudest, the monster we've helped create, the monster who
• 1:11:35
  will come for us all soon enough, is Emperor Palpatine.
• 1:11:44
  Well, join us back here next week for the final, the final
• 1:11:49
  three episodes of I Can't Even Believe We're Here, the final
• 1:11:53
  three episodes of Season 2 of Andor, which puts us right at
• 1:11:57
  Rogue One. At the beginning of Rogue One, I
• 1:12:00
  just, I don't even know what to expect.
• 1:12:02
  So come on back and share it with us as we kind of feel our
• 1:12:06
  way through whatever the hell awaits.
• 1:12:09
  Join us next week for that. Thank you so much for joining us
• 1:12:15
  here on the Most Things Kenobi podcast.
• 1:12:17
  If you'd like to support the podcast by becoming a patron,
• 1:12:20
  head over to the Most Things Kenobi Patreon.
• 1:12:22
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• 1:12:25
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• 1:12:28
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• 1:12:31
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• 1:12:46
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  to Most things kenobi.com. So until next time, Myspace
• 1:12:54
  Twin, may the Force be with you. Always.