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Just Stop Oil: Nonviolent Protests Get Record Sentences · How To Protect The Ocean

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  Would you spend up to five years in jail to protest
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  climate change, to try and get oil companies to stop, you
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  know, developing, to stop basically polluting
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  the earth with greenhouse gases and worse? Would you spend
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  up to five years? Well, apparently there are some people in the
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  UK who found out that yes, they're apparently going
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  to be serving four to five year sentences for protesting
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  in some extreme ways with the Just Stop Oil campaign in
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  that group. We're going to talk about that on today's episode of the How to
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  Protect the Ocean podcast. Let's start the show. Hey
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  everybody, welcome back to another exciting episode of the How to Protect the Ocean podcast. I'm
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  your host, Andrew Lewin, and this is the podcast where you find out what's happening with the ocean,
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  how you can speak up for the ocean, and what you can do to live for a better ocean by
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  taking action. Before we get into today's episode, which
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  is kind of an interesting one in terms of advocacy and
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  how far people will go and are you willing to go in the future this
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  far, And will people go in the future this far, knowing that the
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  consequences could be dire? It could take about four or five years off
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  of your life in terms of freedom. So we're going to talk about that in just a sec.
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  A couple of announcements I want to make before we start, though. I've been
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  doing video podcasting for the last little bit. For the last couple of weeks, I
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  started video podcasting. Spotify has released
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  a couple of new ways of podcasting that
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  includes adding a video. So I will add an
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  audio to this. So there's an audio way of listening
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  to the podcast, but there's also going to be a video. And so
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  I upload that about 8 a.m. after I upload the other ones
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  around midnight. I just wanted to let you guys know that
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  there are ways of watching me talk to
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  you about climate change and ocean conservation and
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  how to protect the ocean. I'm also putting these on YouTube, so
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  since I'm doing video, might as well put it on YouTube as well. But Spotify
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  has a really new, interesting feature and
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  i don't know if it's for everybody yet because they're just rolling it out but you
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  are allowed to comment on my podcast on the
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  different episodes and i think that's really great because i've been looking for a way to
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  engage with users right away obviously you know that you can dm me
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  ocean and i'm fully available through there but youtube
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  commented on an episode, I can go in, I can just be like, oh, hey,
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  can answer some of the questions that I ask within a poll or
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  something like that. It's always great to be able to interact with you because right
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  now I'm speaking at you. you know, whether you're an audience or
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  a class or whoever's listening to this or however you're listening to this, I'm speaking at you. There's no
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  way for you to speak to me or give me feedback or answer any of the questions
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  that I ask within this episode. So you can
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  do that now through Spotify if you're on Spotify or if you want
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  to go over to YouTube and watch these podcasts, you can do so. I'll
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  be releasing them just as I release every episode three day or every podcast
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  three days a week, Monday, Wednesday to Friday. You'll be able to have access to
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  that. The second announcement I wanna make, if you love news and you want it, not only through
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  podcasts and through video, I also have a newsletter that I release Monday
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  to Friday in your inbox at 8 a.m. every morning, or
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  every morning on the weekday. So if you wanna access to that, we have news items,
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  latest news, we have the latest podcasts, like a little summary and ability to access
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  all the latest podcasts, you know, through Beyond Jaws, you
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  know, a couple of other ones, Aquadocs and so forth, and of course,
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  How to Protect the Ocean. And of course, I have about three different articles
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  that I post each and every newsletter, and as well as three different job
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  posts that I see that I find interesting that you may find interesting as well.
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  So all you have to do is go to speakupforblue.com forward slash newsletter.
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  That's speakupforblue.com forward slash
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  newsletter. It's free. I don't do anything with your email other than send you information on
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  the ocean, which is my goal. My goal is to just keep you informed of what's happening on the
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  ocean, including this episode here, which I find a
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  little scary. You know, we see that when
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  we talk about marine conservation and we want marine conservation to happen.
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  It doesn't always happen on a government level. We've seen climate change. That's
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  a big issue. Plastic pollution, huge issue. Overfishing,
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  huge issue. We need legislation. There has been legislation put
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  forward or done in the past. We need to make sure that it's better and it
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  always gets better. But a lot of times, we need to create new legislation. And
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  we want our governments to create new legislation. That
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  doesn't always happen the way we want it for whatever reason. And
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  sometimes you have to put more pressure. So you can team up with a non-profit
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  organization and you can say, hey, I want to help you and
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  volunteer in a campaign to make sure that this government listens.
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  So that might be going for a protest, like a non-violent protest. That
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  might be putting out stuff on social media, like
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  some of their material, all that kind of stuff. When we talk about
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  protesting, protesting is to say, hey, government, we're not happy. Hey,
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  politicians, we're not happy with what you're doing. We would like you to do this, but you're not listening
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  to us. We've sent petitions. We've tried to contact you individually. Now
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  we're coming together as a community in a large group and coming and
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  we're yelling it at you. Please do something about whatever.
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  In this case, it's oil companies. Let's stop producing
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  oil. Just Stop Oil is the organization that has been
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  kind of leading the charge in what I would call
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  and what I would consider extreme sort of attention seeking.
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  right? Not necessarily a good way or a bad way. Some of them are a little dangerous
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  and I'm concerned about the people. Some of them are just getting
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  people's attention. And a lot of people hate the fact that, you
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  know, they're getting people's attention. However, You know,
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  this is where they're at. This is where this organization, the people who volunteer for this
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  organization feel that this is what they need to do in order
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  to gain the attention of the government to
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  change things. And so Just Stop Oil, their mission is
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  to continue these protests until the government changes
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  its stance on exploration in the North Sea of oil for
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  companies. So that's basically opening up leases or providing
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  subsidies, more subsidies to oil companies. and allowing these
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  companies to drill within the North Sea, which is going to affect climate change
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  furthermore with the release of greenhouse gases through
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  the fossil fuel creation process. So they want to
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  just stop oil. That's their organization. It's pretty simple. They go on these protests. You've
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  probably seen them in videos throwing paint on what seems to
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  be artwork. art where
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  they've been slowing down the UK. They walk really slow in the
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  streets and people have to move slow. They don't like the fact that they're moving
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  slow because they're trying to get to their job and of course they're rushing
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  everywhere to go and I completely understand people have to work, people have to make money
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  and they're late all the time. That could be a problem but the whole point is to gain attention
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  from the government and be like these people are disrupting traffic constantly even
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  though they're getting arrested while doing it, they're still disrupting it.
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  Let's get their attention. That's what they want to do. They've also
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  been in like F1 races where they've gone on the track, which I think is extremely dangerous,
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  and that's very dangerous. Recently, there
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  was, and they get prosecuted. A lot of times they'll be put in jail for a night or
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  a day or a weekend, and then they're let go. Some have
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  court cases later on, some get off, some don't. There have been a number
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  of them who have been prosecuted fully to the extent of the law, and
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  have actually served time, or are serving time, or are
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  about to serve time. And the latest in The Guardian shows that five
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  Just Stop Oil activists receive record sentences for
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  planning to block the M25, which is a highway there, that's my understanding. a
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  major highway into the UK or into London. So Roger
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  Hellam, Daniel Shaw, Louise Lancaster, Lucia Whittaker-Debreu
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  and Christina Gethin were found guilty last week of
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  conspiracy to cause a public nuisance for coordinating
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  direct action protests on the M25 over
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  four days in November 2022. So
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  one person, Hallam, received a five-year sentence on Thursday, while
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  the other four received each sentence of four years.
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  Each of them received a four-year sentence. So this is
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  thought to be the longest sentences ever given in the UK for
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  nonviolent protests, exceeding those given to the Gistop oil protesters,
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  Morgan Trollin, who got three years, and Marcus Decker, who got two years
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  and seven months, for scaling the Dartford Crossing. I'm
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  assuming that's a bridge. I'm not too sure exactly what that is. However, it
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  disrupted, and you do public disruption. Now, there are laws set
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  for public disruption, and there are extents of those, like
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  there are maximum fines and maximum penalties for that, jail
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  time and so forth. And a lot of times you'll hear that when people are charged with
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  certain things, they can spend up to five years in jail or pay a
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  $30,000 fine or $180,000 fine. You see these happen all the time.
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  A lot of the times, they don't get that sentence. They
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  don't get the maximum sentence unless they did something that's egregiously bad
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  or like really, really to the fullest extent of that law.
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  However, apparently they're getting some. And I don't know if
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  this is just the fact that the justice system is sick of
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  prosecuting the protesters and are trying to
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  stop them from doing it, to stop others from doing it. And that's the question
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  that I asked right off the bat. Are you willing to spend up to five years in
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  jail to be able to protest oil exploration? Are
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  you willing to do that? Because that's what seems to be the price to pay
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  depending on what you're doing in, you
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  know, what you're protesting and how you protest. Some of these extreme events,
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  these extreme protests cause, you know, people harm
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  or could cause people harm. Like imagine being able to sit on a tarmac, a
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  F1 tarmac, which has got to be hot. But while the race is going on,
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  these F1 cars are coming so, so fast. Even
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  though they're trying to get out of the way, and they're trying to stay out of the way, and they're trying to be safe, you
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  never know what might happen. And you can put the driver
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  in danger. You can put yourself in danger. There's a lot of other things that you can do that
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  could cause danger. So I think this is what they're trying to dispel. They're trying to
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  make sure that nobody gets hurt in these things. But I think they're also trying
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  to suppress a lot of the protests that are happening. Now, until recently, the
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  government was very conservative. And that government had the
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  power for the last 14 years, until recently, when the labor government
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  took over. Now, in the sentencing, some of
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  the protesters that were about to be sentenced said,
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  hey, look, we don't feel that we might have to do these protests that
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  much anymore, because there's a new government in town, and they
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  are a little bit more to do something about climate change.
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  That's what they said in their protest, or in their, not
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  protest, but in their election promises. So, you
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  know, maybe they're not going to do it, there's not an app to recur and
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  come back and do the same thing and have to go through the same process and
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  cause the court a lot of money to, justice and a lot of money
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  to go to court and do all the filing and stuff like that. That
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  didn't work. That didn't work. It seems like this judge is like, look,
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  I understand what you feel the need to do. You're at this point
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  where you have to do something more extreme to get people to
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  get the government's attention. However, this
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  is not the way to do it. This is very dangerous. It's dangerous for people. It's dangerous for you. And
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  we need to keep everything safe. So unfortunately, if you even
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  though you feel the need to do this, you have to be you have to be punished.
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  And so they were given five and four year sentences. So one person received five,
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  four people received four year sentences. That's a lot of time. A
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  lot of the people who are in this, some of them, I'm looking at pictures of them, some of them look really young,
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  some of them look sort of middle-aged, that could take a lot of time in
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  developing your career and doing something maybe a little bit more positive
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  in terms of getting results. We don't
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  know if these will, you know, you know,
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  come into results. We don't know if this directly affected the election. I
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  highly doubt it. But this is what
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  the people who are doing these types of protests feel. They feel like they
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  can have an effect if they get the attention of the government. To get the attention of
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  the government, they have to do something big to get in the news so that
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  they get the attention of the government. Unfortunately, when you do that, you
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  do pay the price. And it's something, as scientists and conservationists, that we need to
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  really evaluate on whether you're willing to make that sacrifice. They're
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  nonviolent, hopefully. And you
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  still have to pay the consequences, because there are consequences. There are laws to disrupting major
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  highways, or a bridge, or something like that. There are laws
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  in place to stop that from happening. And you have to be ready
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  to serve that consequence. In this
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  case, it's four to five years. That's a long time away
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  from maybe your families, away from your jobs, away from just
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  freedom. That's a tough thing, a tough road to go
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  by. I feel for the people who have to do this sentence, I'm sure that's not
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  what they first expected, and it's
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  probably going to be devastating towards them, but it's one of the things
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  that we have to consider when we start to advocate for
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  something in these types of manners, where you're trying to get the attention,
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  you got their attention, but with that attention comes attention on you and
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  comes the law. And I'm not saying that it's right. Do
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  I think they deserve four to five years? No, I don't think they deserve four to
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  five years in my personal opinion However, I'm sure
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  a lot of the people who were blocked on the m25 and on those on
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  those bridges that couldn't get to work or things I feel a different way
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  and that's unfortunate. That's the way that's the way it goes is it's
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  a sacrifice that you have to be willing to take and you have to be willing to
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  make and Be willing to suffer the consequences for that Um,
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  it sucks. I never want to see anybody happen, uh,
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  you know, that happen to anybody, um, nor do I want
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  to see anything violent happen because of, of protest. And
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  unfortunately, in certain situations that's happened, whether it be environmental or
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  non-environmental, um, but they were able to speak their voices, and
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  unfortunately, it just, the way they went about it, it just didn't jive
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  with, with the law, and that sucks. Um, you know, and I,
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  I really do feel for them. I really do. That's a very different
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  change in their life and I'm sure they didn't expect that they were going to have to
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  do that. And unfortunately, they feel that they need to do that.
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  And that's where a lot of people who kind
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  of just throw up their hands and be like, I give up. There's nothing that we can do. I've talked
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  to people that way. There's nothing that we can do. We are going to damage the planet. We
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  are going to go through climate change and we're just going to have to suffer the consequences. generations
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  from now or even now. And people are going to lose their livelihoods, people are
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  going to lose their homes, people are going to lose lives from
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  it. But unfortunately, nobody's ever going to do it. We're controlled by
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  something different. Greed has controlled the
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  government for a long time, and money has controlled the government for a long time, and fossil fuel
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  companies have that money. And we've seen they're willing to do whatever it
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  takes to ensure that that happens, including global campaigns to
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  deny climate change. and global campaigns to say, hey, you know what? It's
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  already happening. You can just give up. There's no point. They've actually come
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  out and said that. That's one of their tactics, just to say, just give up. It's
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  OK. Don't worry about it. We'll still be OK. It's not going
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  to affect you directly. It'll affect you indirectly, and then maybe later
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  on, generations down the road. But it's OK. We're making our money, and you get
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  to be happy. And don't worry about it. And that's really what it's come down to.
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  There's some people feel that they have to make more extreme decisions
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  and try and get attention in more extreme ways. And
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  that's not going to stop, unfortunately. I don't think a four to five year sentence for
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  some people are going to think that that's the price
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  that they're willing to pay. And I don't know if these protesters are,
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  but you know, they did, and
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  they're going to. And so other people, I don't think this Just Stop Oil
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  group are going to stop. They have a mission, and people, like, you
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  know, other people were, last year were sentenced to two to three years,
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  and they're fine, and, you know, the
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  others are still protesting. So, I think this is a movement, this
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  is a movement that's going to be tough to stop. Unfortunately, you know, I think a
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  lot of people give I don't want to give any protesters or anybody talking about climate
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  change a bad name because of Just Stop Oil. There's definitely ramifications to
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  the movement on that. But for the most part, a lot of people are just, you
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  know, like you and me, who are just like, look, we have to do something about climate change. There's
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  a lot of work that we need to do. The first thing is putting the right people in
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  politics and getting the right people to run in politics and to be
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  able to do the right thing. And it doesn't necessarily mean you have to run for office, but
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  you can get involved within your local city, you can get involved within
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  your local county, your local province, whatever that might be.
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  And that could be with a nonprofit organization, that could be volunteering on
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  committees for government. There's all those, there's all different types of ways that
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  you can take part. So I highly recommend that you do that and
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  look into it before you go to these extreme ways. Hopefully you
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  don't feel the need to do that anytime soon. But that's it for today's episode. I'd
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  love to hear what you think. You can leave a comment on Spotify or on
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  YouTube. You can also hit me up on Instagram at HowToProtectTheOcean. I
• 16:59
  want to thank you so much for joining me on today's episode of the
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  HowToProtectTheOcean podcast. I'm your host, Angelo, and have a great day. We'll talk to you next time,