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055 - XXIV To Or Against a Person Who Was One of Those Who Were Not Valued Esteemed by Him · Discourses of Epictetus

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  Speaker 1: Section fifty four of Discourses of Epictetus by Epictetus, translated
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  Speaker 1: by George Long. This LibriVox recording is in the public domain.
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  Speaker 1: Read by Christine Rucker, March second, twenty twenty two, Westford, Massachusetts,
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  Speaker 1: Book two, Chapter twenty four two. Or against a person
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  Speaker 1: who was one of those who were not valued esteemed
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  Speaker 1: by him. A certain person said to him Epictetus, frequently
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  Speaker 1: I desired to hear you, and came to you, and
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  Speaker 1: you never gave me any answer. And now, if it
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  Speaker 1: is possible, I entreat you to say something to me.
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  Speaker 1: Do you think, said Epictetus that as there is an
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  Speaker 1: art in anything else, so there is also an art
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  Speaker 1: in speaking, And that he who has the art will speakskillfully,
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  Speaker 1: and he who has no not will speak unskillfully. I
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  Speaker 1: do think so. He then, who by speaking receives benefit
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  Speaker 1: himself and is able to benefit others, will speak skillfully.
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  Speaker 1: But he who is rather damaged by speaking and does
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  Speaker 1: damage to others, will he be unskilled in this artist speaking?
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  Speaker 1: And you may find that some are damaged and others
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  Speaker 1: benefited by speaking. And are all who here benefited by
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  Speaker 1: what they hear? Or will you find that among them
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  Speaker 1: also some are benefited and some damaged. There are both
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  Speaker 1: among these also, he said, in this case, also then
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  Speaker 1: those who hear skillfully are benefited, and those who here
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  Speaker 1: unskillfully are damaged. He admitted, this is there then a
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  Speaker 1: skill in hearing, also as there is in speaking. It
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  Speaker 1: seems so if you choose to consider the matter in
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  Speaker 1: this way. Also the practice of music, to whom does
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  Speaker 1: it belong to a musician? And the proper making of
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  Speaker 1: a statue? To whom do you think that it belongs
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  Speaker 1: to a statuary? And the looking at a statue skillfully?
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  Speaker 1: Does this appear to you to require the aid of
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  Speaker 1: no art? This also requires the aid of art? Then,
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  Speaker 1: if speaking properly is the business of the skillful man,
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  Speaker 1: do you see that to hear, also with benefit is
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  Speaker 1: the business of the skillful man. Now as to speaking
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  Speaker 1: and hearing perfectly and usefully, let us for the present,
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  Speaker 1: if you please say no more, for both of us
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  Speaker 1: are a long way from everything of the kind. But
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  Speaker 1: I think that every man will allow this, that he
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  Speaker 1: who is going to hear philosophers requires some amount of
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  Speaker 1: practice in hearing? Is it not so? Tell me then,
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  Speaker 1: about what I should talk to you about? What matter?
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  Speaker 1: Are you able to listen about good and evil? Evil?
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  Speaker 1: In what in a horse? No? Well in an ox? No?
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  Speaker 1: What then in a man? Yes? Do we know then
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  Speaker 1: what a man is, what the notion is which we
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  Speaker 1: have of him? Or have we our ears in any
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  Speaker 1: degree practiced about this matter? But do you understand what
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  Speaker 1: nature is? Or can you even in any degree understand
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  Speaker 1: me when I say I shall use demonstration to you?
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  Speaker 1: How do you understand this very thing? What demonstration is,
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  Speaker 1: or how anything is demonstrated, or by what means? Or
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  Speaker 1: what things are like demonstration but are not demonstration? Do
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  Speaker 1: you know what is true or what is false? What
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  Speaker 1: is consequent on a thing? What is repugnant to a thing?
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  Speaker 1: Or not consistent or inconsistent? But must I excite you
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  Speaker 1: to philosophy? And how shall I show you the repugnance
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  Speaker 1: in the opinions of most men through which they differ
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  Speaker 1: about things good and evil, and about things which are
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  Speaker 1: profitable and unprofitable. When you know not this very thing
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  Speaker 1: what repugnance contradiction is? Show me then what I shall
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  Speaker 1: accomplish by discoursing with you? Excite my inclination to do this?
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  Speaker 1: As the grass which is suitable when it is presented
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  Speaker 1: to a sheep moves its inclination to eat. But if
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  Speaker 1: you present to it a stone or bread, it will
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  Speaker 1: not be moved to eat. So there are in us
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  Speaker 1: certain natural inclinations also to speak when the here shall
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  Speaker 1: appear to be somebody, when he himself shall excite us.
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  Speaker 1: But when he shall sit by us like a stone
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  Speaker 1: or like grass, how can he excite a man's desire
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  Speaker 1: to speak? Does the vine say to the husbandman, come
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  Speaker 1: take care of me. No? But the vine, showing in
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  Speaker 1: itself that it will be profitable to the husbandman if
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  Speaker 1: he does take care of it, invites him to exercise care.
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  Speaker 1: When children are attractive and lively, whom do they not
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  Speaker 1: invite to play with them, and crawl with them, and
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  Speaker 1: lisp with them? But who is eager to play with
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  Speaker 1: an ass or to pray with it? For though it
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  Speaker 1: is small, it is still a little asked? Why then
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  Speaker 1: do you say nothing to me? I can only say
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  Speaker 1: this to you, that he who knows not who he is,
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  Speaker 1: and for what purpose he exists, and what is this world,
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  Speaker 1: and with whom he is associated? And what things are
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  Speaker 1: the good and the bad, and the beautiful and the ugly,
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  Speaker 1: And who neither understands this discourse nor demonstration, nor what
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  Speaker 1: is true nor what is false, And who is not
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  Speaker 1: able to distinguish them, will neither desire according to nature,
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  Speaker 1: nor turn away, nor move towards, nor intend to act,
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  Speaker 1: nor assent nor dissent, nor suspend his judgment. To say
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  Speaker 1: all in a few words, he will go about dumb
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  Speaker 1: and blind, thinking that he is somebody, but being nobody.
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  Speaker 1: Is this so now for the first time? Is it
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  Speaker 1: not the fact that ever since the human race existed,
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  Speaker 1: all errors and misfortunes have arisen through this ignorance? Why
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  Speaker 1: did Agamemnon and Achilles quarrel with one another? Was it
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  Speaker 1: not through not knowing what things are profitable and not profitable?
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  Speaker 1: Does not the one say it is profitable to restore
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  Speaker 1: Christius to her father, and does not the other say
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  Speaker 1: that it is not profitable? Does not the one say
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  Speaker 1: that he ought to take the prize of another? And
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  Speaker 1: does not the other say that he ought not? Did
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  Speaker 1: they not for these reasons? Forget both who they were
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  Speaker 1: and for what purpose they had come there? Oh? Man,
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  Speaker 1: for what purpose did you come to gain mistresses? Or
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  Speaker 1: to fight? To fight with whom the Trojans are the
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  Speaker 1: helens with the Trojans. Do you then leave Hector alone
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  Speaker 1: and draw your sword against your own king? And do you,
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  Speaker 1: most excellent sir, neglect the duties of the king, you
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  Speaker 1: who are the people's guardian and have such cares? And
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  Speaker 1: are you quarreling about a little girl with the most
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  Speaker 1: warlike of your allies, whom you ought by every means
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  Speaker 1: to take care of and protect? And do you become
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  Speaker 1: worse than inferior to a well behaved priest who treats
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  Speaker 1: you these fine gladiators with all respect? Do you see
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  Speaker 1: what kind of things ignorance of what is profitable does?
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  Speaker 1: But I also am rich? Are you then richer than Annam?
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  Speaker 1: But I am also handsome? Are you then more handsome
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  Speaker 1: than Achilles? But I have also beautiful hair? But had
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  Speaker 1: not Achilles more beautiful hair and golden colored? And he
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  Speaker 1: he did not comb it elegantly nor address it. But
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  Speaker 1: I am also strong. Can you then lift so great
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  Speaker 1: a stone as Hector or Ajax? But I am also
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  Speaker 1: of norble birth? Are you the son of a goddess mother?
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  Speaker 1: Are you the son of a father sprung from Zeus?
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  Speaker 1: What good then do these things do him? When he
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  Speaker 1: sits and weeps for a girl. But I am an orator,
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  Speaker 1: and was he not. Do you not see how he
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  Speaker 1: handled the most skillful of the helens in oratory, Odysseus
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  Speaker 1: and Phoenix, how he stopped their mouths. This is all
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  Speaker 1: I have to say to you. And I say even
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  Speaker 1: this not willingly. Why because you have not roused me?
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  Speaker 1: For what must I look to in order to be roused?
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  Speaker 1: As men who are expert in riding are roused by
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  Speaker 1: generous horses. Must I look to your body? You treat
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  Speaker 1: it disgracefully. To your dress that is luxurious, to your behavior,
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  Speaker 1: to your look, that is the same as nothing. When
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  Speaker 1: you would listen to a philosopher, do not say to him,
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  Speaker 1: tell me nothing, but only show yourself worthy of hearing
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  Speaker 1: or fit for hearing, and you will see how you
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  Speaker 1: will move the speaker. End of Book two, Chapter twenty four.