Latest / The Life-First Solopreneur / 190. The Power of the Pivot: Reinventing Yourself After Layoffs and Burnout

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190. The Power of the Pivot: Reinventing Yourself After Layoffs and Burnout · The Life-First Solopreneur

• 0:00
  Carly Ries: Feeling burnt out, laid off, or just done with the corporate grind? You are not alone, and you're definitely not out of options. In this episode of the Aspiring Solopreneur, we sit down with Laura Zavelson, who has not only walked the walk, but is now teaching Gen X women how to turn frustration into freedom. From being the forgotten generation to finding your niche and actually charging what you're worth, Laura shares why solopreneurs need to think like product developers, not hourly workers. We're talking belief shifting content, charging like a pro, vibing with your clients, and how to turn your career experience into a thriving coaching or consulting business.
• 0:36
  And if you're worried that niching down means leaving money on the table, Laura's about to flip that idea on its head. So whether you're building your business or still secretly plotting your exit, this episode will give you permission and strategy. Tune in. You're listening to The Aspiring Solopreneur, the podcast for those just taking the bold step or even just thinking about taking that step into the world solo entrepreneurship. My name is Carly Ries, and my cohost Joe Rando and I are your guides to navigating this crazy but awesome journey as a company of one.
• 1:08
  We take pride in being part of LifeStarr, a digital hub dedicated to all aspects of solopreneurship that has empowered and educated countless solopreneurs looking to build a business that resonates with their life's ambitions. We help people work to live, not live to work. And if you're looking for a get rich quick scheme, this is not the show for you. So if you're eager to gain valuable insights from industry experts on running a business the right way the first time around or want to learn from the missteps of solopreneurs who paved the way before you, then stick around. We've got your back because flying solo in business doesn't mean you're alone.
• 1:45
  I really wanna make light of what you do right now before we get into the questions because I think it's so important for solopreneurs to niche down. And you have done that, and you've done that very well. And you help Gen X women who've been laid off, frustrated, burned out, whatever, and you help them build coaching and consulting businesses so they have better work life balance and more financial opportunity. And the works that all of us women are kinda go up against sometimes, but you do focus on Gen X specifically. So I wanna know when you were starting your business, why did you start there?
• 2:18
  What was it about this group? What called you to this audience?
• 2:22
  Laura Zavelson: That is a great, great question. So first of all, I'm one of them. So, you know, I find that generation very relatable. we are a small generation. And we're generally, you know, disgruntled and in a bad mood because we feel like nobody ever pays attention to us.
• 2:38
  So it's definitely a generation I could relate to. But no, why I really did it was during the pandemic. I was between gigs myself. I had just gotten out of a venture backed startup that had sold, I was trying to figure out what I wanted to do next and the pandemic hit. And, honestly, it really really slowed me down. you know, I had kids come home from college. One, was home in high school, but at home. And I just didn't know what I wanted to do next, but I knew I didn't wanna go back to another another startup. I was tired of raising money. I was tired of that.
• 3:19
  It's a grind. And it has pros and cons, but I wanted to break. And so I joined a women's kind of entrepreneurial community here and online obviously. And was listening to a lot of women who were impacted by ageism, frankly. And also there were a lot of layoffs during that time of the pandemic.
• 3:45
  And these women were so talented, just incredible backgrounds and lots of corporate experience and they were just being sidelined. And so they were trying to start their own businesses. And, you know, the skills that make you a great coach or consultant that you can bring to the table are not the same skills that make you a great business person. It is actually a different skill set. And that's when I put the two things together.
• 4:09
  I said, well, I have that skill set. And I'm also a former professor of entrepreneurship so I love to teach. And I said, wow, I wonder if there's a business here where I could share my knowledge and help these women sort of keep their talents and their expertise in circulation for longer and makes money while they're doing it.
• 4:28
  Joe Rando: You know what I love? you we talked about the niching down, but you've niched out on a particular gender, on a particular problem, I'm sorry, a particular phase of life, older, you're saying older gen, or Gen X women.
• 4:45
  Laura Zavelson: Yeah, 45 to 60.
• 4:46
  Joe Rando: You've got it. Gen X. Yeah. So, and then you've niched down on a pain point. So you've really got the trifecta, which, you know, is not as common as it probably should be.
• 4:57
  That's just awesome.
• 4:59
  Laura Zavelson: Well, you know, I was mentioning it before. It's one of those things that I think you've got to get heard, especially when your business is young, and mine is young. And it is really hard to cut through the noise unless you can, the metaphor that's coming to mind right now, it's like a dog whistle. Right? Like, if you're gonna put a message out there, you've gotta get somebody to turn around and say, oh, that's me.
• 5:26
  And in order to do that when there's all this incoming, you gotta be pretty specific about who you're talking to. And so that's kind of the rationale behind that. And I think, you know, when people ask me, well, I'm leaving money on the table. I'm gonna miss out on opportunities. You know, all of the concerns people have when you talk about niching down, you say, look, get in and and get known in a small area.
• 5:51
  And then once you're known, once people hear you in that area, you can expand. You can sell new things to the same audience. You can sell the same thing to a different audience. There's plenty of time to grow and get big. But when you're starting, that specificity is really your friend.
• 6:08
  It's on your side.
• 6:09
  Carly Ries: You know what's so funny? Is you're talking about like the forgotten generation. And Joe's a boomer, and I'm a millennial. And I feel like we take over all the messaging all the time. Everybody just references ours to age group for whatever reason.
• 6:25
  Joe Rando: I think boomers have a branding problem at this point, at least with the millennials.
• 6:30
  Carly Ries: Well, I think millennials also now have a branding problem.
• 6:33
  Laura Zavelson: Well, come on. I'm Gen Xer, which is like the Karens of the world. So we have a branding problem too.
• 6:40
  Carly Ries: This is a major branding problem.
• 6:42
  Joe Rando: Oh my.
• 6:43
  Carly Ries: Well, when you were talking to all these women and now with your clients, what were the mistakes you were seeing them making when they were trying to reinvent themselves?
• 6:53
  Laura Zavelson: So not niching is one of them. Like you know, I'm for everyone. let's say, this person is coming out of a corporate marketing background, and they wanna be a marketing consultant. And they're like, well, I'm a marketing consultant for everyone, and I do everything in marketing. Well, you know, that not only makes you hard to hire, it makes you really hard to refer.
• 7:17
  So usually, again, when you're very first starting, your first customers aren't coming from social media. They're coming from referrals. Right? They're coming from people in your network that you already know. And so if you're gonna go out to people and say, hey, do you know anybody that might wanna hire me?
• 7:32
  You have to be really specific about who you want them to refer you to because, think about it, your own inbox. Right? Somebody, comes to you and you sit they say, hey, I'm starting a consulting company. You're like, that's awesome. And this is who I'd like to meet.
• 7:46
  If they're like, do you know anybody that needs marketing? I'm like,
• 7:50
  I don't know. And then I star the email and it gets lost in my inbox. In that moment, I need to know, I want a marketing research job with a tech company that is two fifty people or larger. Right now I can help you. Now I can say, who do I know in my network that works for that kind of a company that might need some marketing research?
• 8:16
  So niching is a big part of it. That's something that I think you don't know. That is non obvious. So when you're starting your own company, you don't realize the impact of that. I think the second thing is they're very unclear about what they sell.
• 8:29
  And people don't buy what they don't understand. Right? And so if you're not saying and I'm a big advocate of, like, productizing your IP to the extent you can. I think it's so much easier to sell a product than sell your time. So even if you wanna do one on one kind of stuff, package it as something you do over six weeks and and call it a program.
• 8:52
  Right? So much easier to sell a thing than to sell time, to sell a transformation, actually, to use
• 8:59
  Joe Rando: And don't you think you can get more money for it when you do it that way than just say, oh, you know, it's a hundred dollars an hour. It's like, people go, oh, well, that's too much or that's okay or but, you know, nobody's sitting there going, wow. I'll give you more.
• 9:12
  Laura Zavelson: 100 %. And, people wanna know what they're getting for that. Like, it's therapy is different. Okay? But I'm like, you need to have an outcome that you create for your clients.
• 9:26
  And so I don't wanna just come and hang out with you, you know, every two weeks for an undefined period of time. What am I getting out of that? So that's something else that I work with my clients on is how do you define what you're selling and how do you create a product or a program or a project around that? Because this works for consultants too, I mean, if you just copy what the big firms are doing, right?
• 9:46
  They productize their IP. That's all you're doing. And everybody can do that. Everybody has a unique approach. You just may not have figured out what yours is yet.
• 9:54
  And so that's something else I help with is kind of teasing that out. And then the third thing that I find that was just chronic with women entrepreneurs especially is they're all undercharging. And so I try to come in and say, look, this is what you are making at your job. You have this experience. They're all like, oh, I need another certification or I need another degree or I'm not enough.
• 10:17
  And I'm like, bullshit. Can I say that?
• 10:20
  Carly Ries: Yeah. Do your thing.
• 10:23
  Laura Zavelson: I'm like, no. You know, you have value. You have experience. That is worth something. You are, at the upswing, the curve for your career is going up right now.
• 10:35
  So don't undervalue yourself and undercharge. But there's a lot of emotional money baggage there. So that is something else I try to help with as well.
• 10:43
  Carly Ries: It's funny. I actually had coffee yesterday with a gal who just turned 60, so she's right in your demographic. And she runs her own marketing firm or her own marketing. She's a solopreneur. And she was like, yeah, I pitched this big company.
• 10:58
  And she was like, and somebody told me to throw out 80 k for this project. And she was like, I thought they were nuts and I threw it out and they told me they underbid. And she was like, yeah. I mean, 80 k for a solopreneur, like that does sound ridiculous and again, I don't know the ins and outs of what the project entailed. But like shoot for the stars, I feel like, and if you miss, it's a learning and it'll help you better adjust as you go.
• 11:26
  Would you agree?
• 11:27
  Laura Zavelson: 100 %. And I think, you know, in those situations, a lot of times and I coach people to do this all the time. You know, if you've got, again, if it's a referral that got you in there and you've got a friend who's in there, see if you can find out what their budget is. I mean, sometimes we can get the information we need to be able to charge appropriately.
• 11:48
  You have to throw it out there and I always say work backwards. Right? How much do you wanna make? Let's see how much do you wanna make? And how many clients can you generally take on in a year?
• 11:59
  And this math is easier usually if you're a consultant because it's a longer term project or you're working on retainer. But, you know, you figure that out. it's just that now it's a math problem. Right? How much do I wanna make?
• 12:11
  How many clients can I realistically have? Divide. And that's how much you need to be charging.
• 12:17
  Carly Ries: Yeah. It's funny because when you say it, it's like, duh. Then when you're actually doing it.
• 12:23
  Laura Zavelson: But nobody thinks about it that way. And you know, I'll tell you why I think this. And again, I've had a lot of time to sort of mold this. But the reason I think this, I think everybody most people have kind of a gut feeling about how much money they wanna make. Like, what would make being a solopreneur worth it to you?
• 12:42
  What would make this awesome? What would it take you to feel like, yeah, this was totally worth it. I made the right decision. Right? And balance that certainly with like the impact you wanna have and the flexibility you wanna have.
• 12:54
  But I think people are pretty realistic. Most of my clients are pretty realistic about what they wanna make. They don't close that gap between their pricing and that enough number, that gut enough number. You know, and for some people it's like, I wanna just contribute to my kids college education while they're in school and that's why I'm doing this. Some people are like, I just wanna be able to fly business class. some people you know, they need to make money. They need to put food on the table. It's different for everybody. But generally, most people know about what that enough number is for them, but they just don't connect it to their pricing.
• 13:28
  Joe Rando: But that should be like a base, a bottom, floor for the number that's the lowest you would charge.
• 13:35
  Laura Zavelson: 100 percent. Yeah. But again, I'm working with people who are sort of undercharging and there's the big gap between the two. But I agree with you. I think, you don't wanna leave money on the table, especially as a solopreneur because it does tend to be feast or famine, and you are impacted by so many external things, especially in what's going on in the general economic environment as we can see right now.
• 13:59
  Joe Rando: I'm curious because, obviously, it's too soon to tell. Right? But with everything that's happening now and all the people being laid off, I'm wondering if this isn't gonna be you know, kind of a renaissance period for solopreneurs because there's gonna be work that needs to get done. They're not gonna have the staff. A lot of these people are gonna know what to do, have been laid off, and maybe can get consulting work.
• 14:19
  I don't know. I'm just wondering. It's not clear yet.
• 14:21
  Laura Zavelson: Really hard to tell. You know, consulting is funny because when the companies turn the spigot off, right, I mean, I've been inside the company and outside the company at those times. You know, they turn the money spigot off and nobody can do anything. Right? They they stop all the travel and all their hiring freezes and whatever.
• 14:44
  And so there's usually this period of fear where nothing happens. And then the work starts to pile up, right, because of the layoffs and whatever. So there's a cycle there. And then they'll bring in consultants before they'll make a full time hire because they're psychologically cheaper. So, you know, I think you're right.
• 15:06
  But it's really hard to tell when it's gonna happen. And it may happen at different times with different companies. It's just we're in such a weird cycle right now.
• 15:16
  Joe Rando: Yeah. It's very, very strange. This is April 2025 or, the first half of 2025. And, yeah, the future is very unclear. But I remember years ago, my father-in-law, he worked for Polaroid as an engineer, and they were getting into trouble, you know, with the whole thing.
• 15:33
  And they laid him off. They gave him early retirement basically and immediately hired him back as a consultant because they could not do without. But, just like you say, there may be a period of time for that work to build up, but it's still possible that this could be a real opportunity in some ways for people that are prepared.
• 15:53
  Laura Zavelson: I think so. I think so. And I do think I was talking to somebody about this yesterday. If you are at a corporate job right now and you see the writing on the wall, start exploring your entrepreneurial options now. Like, don't wait until, you're laid off and you're looking at the severance check and you're watching that number drop.
• 16:13
  You know, start looking now. Like, I'm sure you've got business experiences, business ideas. I'm sure you've got business ideas like something. And so, poke around in there now.
• 16:25
  Joe Rando: Yeah. Join LifeStarr
• 16:28
  Carly Ries: join LifeStarr
• 16:29
  Joe Rando: and come in and brainstorm with us. It's free.
• 16:35
  Carly Ries: Well, so let's say they're like, yeah, I have my business experience and that's giving me my new business ideas. And if I'm on the chopping block, let's do this, I'm ready. So many people are in that situation and they have the best ideas, but then they come to the scary phase of entrepreneurship which is selling. And so many people are it's such a scary word for people, myself included. I do not like sales.
• 17:00
  And I know that it's not ABC anymore and close the deal and cold call, and it's changed. I think people still think car salesman when you think of sales.
• 17:11
  Joe Rando: Alec Baldwin in Glengarry Glen Ross, that's what they're thinking.
• 17:16
  Carly Ries: Exactly. And it doesn't have to be like that. So how do you recommend to the women that you coach that they approach sales in a non sleazy and more authentic way?
• 17:29
  Laura Zavelson: Yeah. Because, the thing is, I think everybody's had that one experience with a salesperson that made them uncomfortable or that they just really didn't like being in that situation. And so I think they don't wanna put anybody else in that situation. Certainly not someone that they'd like to have as a client.
• 17:45
  And so they go the other way. Right? And these conversations just get really awkward. So what I talk about is that if you can do some pre work and establish yourself as an expert and not a world leading expert, like where you don't have to go out and win an award or anything. But you have to establish yourself as an expert in the field that you're in.
• 18:09
  Because that way when you get somebody on the phone, it's not like you're trying to convince them of anything. They're already on the phone because they wanna hire you. Like, they already know enough about you that they wanna go, yeah, I wanna work with you. I use this story. So a couple of months ago, we were at a barbecue at a friend's house, maybe like forty minutes away from our house.
• 18:30
  And my son was home for the summer from college and, you know, living in our downstairs bedroom. And I get a call on the phone from my son. Now if you all have children who are in their twenties or you know them, you know they don't call. Right? They text me, they discord you, they'll like get in touch with me any other way, but like they don't pick up the phone and call.
• 18:52
  My son calls. So I know this is not gonna be a good thing. I pick up the phone and he's like, mom, there's water pulling pouring through the light in the ceiling in the bathroom.
• 19:03
  I'm like, oh my god.
• 19:05
  So I say, alright. Go turn off the water. He goes and turns off the water. I'm like, okay. We're gonna come home. So this our friends, you know, other couples there. And I said, does anybody know a plumber that'll pick up the phone on the weekends? And somebody said, yeah, I know a guy. And so I took the person's number.
• 19:25
  And on the way home, I call him. And let me tell you what I didn't do on that call. I did not ask him, how his program worked. I didn't ask him how many years he had been a plumber. I didn't actually even ask him how much he charged.
• 19:38
  I was like, can you be at my house today? And he's like, yes. I can be there at 03:00. I'm like, great. You're hired.
• 19:44
  So what we all do is a little bit different, and you are usually not solving quite a problem that urgent. If you can find a problem that urgent, it's a great way to stay employed. But, it's that idea that if you can establish yourself as an expert in your field, then it becomes a path then you getting hired. And the way I think the best way to establish yourself as an expert of your field is to use thought leadership content.
• 20:13
  Carly Ries: Yeah. So okay. You talk about there's a way to develop kind of a content generating machine for yourself and here's the big kicker, doesn't include ChatGPT. And I'm like, that's false. All of our content ideas come from ChatGPT now.
• 20:31
  So what is the tool that you use or the methodology that you use?
• 20:36
  Laura Zavelson: Well, honestly, it's belief shifting content. So you can still use ChatGPT if you want to, but that download I have has all these prompts in it. Not for ChatGPT. for you, but if you wanna involve ChatGPT in that situation, go right ahead. You can certainly use it with it. But you've got to walk people through your process and through the belief shifts it takes to become a buyer. And buyer psychology is well documented. Now you know, I didn't come up with this yesterday. Right? We know that people have to kind of come along before they decide to make a purchase from you.
• 21:16
  So if we had sort of the first stage of that, it would be awareness. They need to understand they have a problem and they need to understand that you understand their problem. Right? And then the second thing that we kinda have to convince them of is there's a solution and there are options.
• 21:34
  And so that gives them some hope. Oh, wait a minute. Maybe there is a way that I can fix this problem. Then the third thing is trust.
• 21:42
  We need them to believe that we can help them. And that's where your testimonials and your case studies come in. That's where you can talk about your experience or your education and those kinds of things. They have to understand how your thing works. People don't buy what they don't understand. So they need to understand what process or what's gonna happen to them if they work with you. And they also need to believe that they can succeed using whatever your solution is. Right? And then the final piece is what I call selfie content, but I don't mean like taking pictures of yourself.
• 22:15
  I mean, it's that personality chemistry fit belief. They need to vibe with you. And so that's where you really need to share like your mission or your values or your hobbies. I mean, you don't necessarily tell them everything you've ever done, but you know what I mean?
• 22:33
  You can let them in to some extent. Because I don't know who said this, but you know, people don't buy coaching, they buy coaches. Right? People don't buy consulting, they buy consultants. You really gotta like somebody that you're working with.
• 22:44
  And that all comes down to the it's the Bob Berg quote, right? The know, like, trust. Right? So all of this, all of this belief shifting, all of this proof content, all of this letting them know a little bit more about you personally, each piece of that builds on that know, like, trust. And it's a really authentic way that you can market yourself and sell yourself without feeling like you're always asking somebody, do you wanna buy this?
• 23:14
  Do you wanna buy this? Do you wanna buy this?
• 23:16
  Carly Ries: I'm so glad that you brought that up because some people when you talk about content or establishing your business and separating it from the masses, a lot of people are taking the same advice. So they're creating the content, they're getting the testimonials, blah blah blah. And they're kinda like, okay, but so is the marketing consultant next to me and the marketing consultant over there is doing the same thing. And gosh, like, how do I differentiate myself? And that's it.
• 23:41
  It's the connection. It's the do you vibe? And because it's so true, and I mean, we throughout our careers, we've worked with different contractors and you know pretty quickly if you vibe with them or not. Like, I feel like that's the biggest telling factor, at least for me, compared to their credentials and everything else, their experience. And I do think that's something that people miss out on.
• 24:05
  Laura Zavelson: And I think it has to be the whole package. Right? And I think in addition to vibe, do think that people need to believe that you know what you're talking about. And I do think an additional way to differentiate yourself from the marketing consultant sitting next to you is to have your own approach. And we were talking a little bit this earlier in terms of like, productizing your IP.
• 24:30
  Right? everybody should have their own approach to doing stuff, through your experience and through the I don't know what you know works, right? Otherwise, you really shouldn't be a coach or consultant. And so your approach is actually an excellent differentiator that the person next to you should not have. And you can break that down into into tons of content.
• 24:56
  You can say, I use these assessments or I use these checklists or this is my framework or I know this works because step one does this and step two does that and step three does that. And so you walk them through your steps which should not be the same as anybody else's steps. And I do think that's a great way to differentiate and help people remember you.
• 25:18
  Carly Ries: Yeah. Absolutely. Laura, this is all so helpful. And I think also like you guys were just saying, there is so much uncertainty right now.
• 25:26
  And I feel like the way that you're describing all of this kinda gives people hope, and especially women, Gen X women, that it's like, it's okay. The other funny thing is, I feel like people should be thinking about this on the side anyway, regardless of the time that we're in, salaries are kind of a false safety net too. You could get fired at any minute. For sure. Always thinking about what your unique selling point is, experience, your values.
• 25:54
  I think it's just a good reminder to walk yourself through this, whether you've jumped ship from corporate or not. And we get people listening to the podcast who are both ends. we have people that are in the solopreneur world now and people that are like, I wanna get there. I just need to figure out how to do that. And I just think everything you've said today is so reassuring for people and kinda gives them the confidence to take that leap.
• 26:18
  So I just wanna say thank you.
• 26:19
  Laura Zavelson: Oh, well, you know, I hope it does do that.
• 26:22
  Carly Ries: Yeah. Well, okay. So you help people, you help women specifically, Gen x'ers find success with whatever their new adventure is. So we have to ask, we ask all of our guests this question, what is your favorite quote about success?
• 26:37
  Laura Zavelson: If you follow all the rules, you'll miss all the fun. Catherine Hepburn said that.
• 26:44
  Carly Ries: Then I am missing a lot of fun. I am your traditional rule follower.
• 26:48
  Laura Zavelson: I am so not a rule follower. Oh my gosh.
• 26:53
  Carly Ries: I had a friend ask me the other day, she goes, let's bring our dogs to this coffee shop. And I was like, was it dog friendly? And she goes, well, I don't know. I would just assume so. Let's just bring the dogs.
• 27:05
  And in my mind, I was like, unless there's a written sign or a note, like, the manager agrees, I'm not going. And she was just like, well, let's just bring the dogs.
• 27:16
  Laura Zavelson: I'm always oh, those rules are for other people. That cross at the light thing, that's for other people. I'm just gonna cross over here.
• 27:22
  Carly Ries: Well, that's what makes you a good solopreneur. So, Laura, where can people find you if they want to learn more about you?
• 27:29
  Laura Zavelson: The best place is to go to my website. It's at laurazavelson.com,
• 27:40
  I am the only Laura Zavelson. So if you Google that, everything that comes up will be related to me.
• 27:45
  And, I actually have a YouTube channel. so if you want more, thoughts about how to start or grow your coaching and consulting business, you can find me on YouTube.
• 27:55
  Carly Ries: Easy enough. Well, Laura, thank you so so much for coming on the show. And listeners, thank you so much for tuning in. But you know what? We love putting out this content for you.
• 28:04
  It's one of our favorite parts of our week. But in return, we would love that five star review. It's how we get found in search more easily. It's how we grow that show, and we want to continue putting this on for you. So be sure to leave that five star review.
• 28:16
  Subscribe on your favorite pod podcast platform as well as YouTube, and we will see you next time on The Aspiring Solopreneur. You may be going solo in business, but that doesn't mean you're alone. In fact, millions of people are in your shoes, running a one person business and figuring it out as they go. So why not connect with them and learn from each other's successes and failures? At LifeStarr, we're creating a one person business community where you can go to meet and get advice from other solopreneurs.
• 28:44
  Be sure to join in on the conversations at community.lifestarr.com.