Latest / WHAT I'VE LEARNT / What I've Learnt - Kat Stewart

Transcript

What I've Learnt - Kat Stewart · WHAT I'VE LEARNT

• 0:08
  SPEAKER_00: Well legendary actor Kat Stewart has built a reputation as one of Australia's most outstanding actors.
• 0:16
  SPEAKER_00: Renowned for her exceptional performances across a diverse range of unforgettable characters on both stage and screen, Kat has played leading roles on productions including Five Bedrooms, Offspring, and Underbelly.
• 0:30
  SPEAKER_00: Her work on stage includes Melbourne Theatre Company's Admissions Heisenberg Disgraced, The Speechmaker, Frost Nixon and Feston.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_00: She was an active member of Red Stitch Actors' Theatre for 10 years with credits including Creditors, The Little Dog Laughed, The Shape of Things, Bug Dirty Butterfly, and Loyal Women.
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_00: Her historic return to the company in 2023 to play Martha in the highly acclaimed sell-out season of Who's Afraid of Virginia Wolf led to a further successful commercial season at Melbourne's Comedy Theatre in 2024 and an upcoming remount of the Sydney Theatre Company for their 2025 season at the Roslyn Packer Theatre.
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_00: So, Kat, welcome to the What I've Learned Podcast.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_00: I'm so happy to have you join me.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks so much, Dave.
• 1:19
  SPEAKER_01: It's lovely to be here.
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_00: Well, why don't we start at the very beginning, like all good stories?
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_00: Uh-huh.
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_00: Your passion for theatre and acting.
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_00: Where did this all begin?
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_00: Because clearly this is something that you are you have kept very much in touch with.
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_00: You, you know, even though you've moved into film and into series, you theatre's always been a strong passion.
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I sort of I love, I do love doing theatre, and it's something I try and keep my hand in.
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_01: I think if you're away from it for too long, you can you can lose your nerves.
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_01: So I try and do a play every year or two at least.
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_01: I remember being on stage the first time when I was in prep.
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_01: I got to be the angel in my uh in my primary school play, and I didn't have to say anything.
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_01: I just was basically pushed on stage and had wings on and kind of was a wheeled, was pulled off again.
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_01: Um first troll.
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_01: The casting kind of went downhill from there.
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_01: That I was playing.
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_01: I disgruntled innkeeper.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_01: I think I got a shot at Mary in year 11 eventually, but you know, it was a it was a rough road.
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_01: But I played mainly um usually not the the um the nice girl uh historically, but no, I always loved it.
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_01: I loved doing it at school and I do house drama and stuff, but I I never thought it was a career.
• 2:34
  SPEAKER_01: So I actually came to to to theatre and acting quite late.
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_01: I did I did uh marketing and arts at uni and I found the theatre society there and I was doing plays while I was at Monash.
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_01: And then I was working as a publicist at Penguin Books and I found a drama course that used to be a nighttime course um at the National in St Kilder.
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_01: I did that for three years at night, and um, so it meant I got good at sort of supporting my habit, I guess, with as an actor, especially when you're starting out, you have to work other jobs to keep it going.
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_01: So I got good.
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_01: 100%.
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_01: And yeah, so it came late, but I think in grade two I had a teacher, it's a very roundabout answer, Deb, to start off with.
• 3:13
  SPEAKER_01: My teacher in grade two, Mrs.
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_01: McManus, used to get us to act out stories.
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_01: And I remember I was a very shy, retiring kid.
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_01: But whenever we got to act, I felt I felt brave and I got louder and more boisterous and bossy.
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_01: And um, so I've always just loved it.
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_00: Well, it's interesting that you describe what you have because I think it's really important and comforting for other actors and for other people in the industry or people wanting to be actors, that as you rightly pointed out, because I know a lot of them, you have to have a number of a number of strings to your bow in order to thrive because it's a challenging pursuit.
• 3:49
  SPEAKER_00: I have um somebody very close to me who is constantly auditioning, and it's like if you were just waiting for your auditions, you would go nutso, because you basically can do seven auditions in a week and you you know still not hear back from anyone.
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_00: It's quite challenging.
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_00: So I think it's interesting that you came from a completely different context and you did it at night.
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_00: And so, in some ways, you got your strength and your core in another way as well, which is interesting.
• 4:15
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think I because you know, I thought when you start, you think it's going to be different for you, and that that that it's you know, you'll be, you'll be someone will discover, someone will see your magic, and you'll just work and work and work.
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_01: But you know, the reality of it is, I mean, that can happen for some people, but um, but the reality of it is you need to be, it's a habit you need to support, especially initially.
• 4:35
  SPEAKER_01: And at different times in your career, you can have quieter times.
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_01: So, yeah, that experience of working by day and then and and starting at night and on weekends was really great grounding, actually.
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_00: And it meant that you had, you know, and I hate that, you had a backup plan, which people I mean, obviously most actors hate that expression.
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_00: But what you're saying, and I think there's a humility in that, is you accepted the reality that it was, you know, it was a long haul and a put and it was a you've got to be brave, let's be honest.
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it it and I found I was balancing, I was working gigging as a publicist for a few years, my first few years out of drama school.
• 5:11
  SPEAKER_01: That was interesting because I wasn't booking jobs because my head wasn't in it.
• 5:14
  SPEAKER_01: In the end, I actually had to say, I'm not gonna work as a publicist anymore.
• 5:18
  SPEAKER_01: I'm just gonna do this, which was terrifying because I like security and money and being good at something.
• 5:23
  SPEAKER_01: And yeah, but but actually for me, I found that I had to kind of take away the safety net to give it my my all.
• 5:31
  SPEAKER_00: Well, it's interesting you say that because yeah, a lot of actors do say that.
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_00: And in fact, people that I've interviewed refer to that, you sort of jump right on the ship, so to speak.
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but that's scary because you've got to also, you know, earn a living and and you're not sure where it's gonna go.
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_00: So for you, where did your feet land first and how how did that?
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_01: A big thing for me was joining Red Stitch um in 2002.
• 5:59
  SPEAKER_01: And I I was I'd started, I'd started getting some guest roles on bits and pieces.
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_01: So I was getting a bit of work, but um, but yeah, joining Red Stitch was a big game changer for me because for those 10 years I was busy there, I felt like an actor because I was pretty much always in a play and um rehearsing or performing, sometimes at the same time, you know, rehearsing something different while I perform something else at night.
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_01: And that was great training.
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_01: And and I was getting uh because we were choosing our own.
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_00: So for anyone who doesn't know Red Stitch, I was about to say, if you give us a little overview, I love Red Stitch because we know how amazing it's the actors' theatre is what it's referred to by a lot of actors.
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, so Red Stitch was founded in 2001, so I joined about six months in, but the idea was it was going to be a theatre company run by actors, four actors, and it was started by this great guy, this visionary guy, very unusual guy called Vincent Miller.
• 6:55
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, and he auditioned about 200 Melbourne actors, and um he he chose 12, and basically it was like a cult.
• 7:07
  SPEAKER_01: All our relationships broke up behind the church in Chapel Street, yeah, like this little you need to just like just to paint the picture.
• 7:15
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, so initially, actually, initially we were in Inkerman Street.
• 7:18
  SPEAKER_01: So the first year we're in a different, different space in Incan Street, Inkerman Street, St Kilda, and we we read a gazillion plays, um, we chose the plays, we auditioned directors, which is very unusual, and guest cast and stuff, and we we built the sets, we put up the posters, we cleaned the toilets, we did the fundraisers, we did everything.
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_01: And we put on 12 plays in the first 12 months, and it was just no one came.
• 7:44
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it was like sometimes we were getting single-digit audiences, but it was amazing.
• 7:47
  SPEAKER_01: And eventually the the the the audiences built.
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_01: And I did that for 10 years.
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, we moved to our current theatre in um Chapel Street, St Kilda, and we were just putting on a ton of plays and reading the best new writing in the world, which is an amazing grounding as well, and fighting over which plays to do and who should be in them.
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_01: And and it was just an incredible period, amazingly tough, hard work, but incredibly rewarding.
• 8:16
  SPEAKER_01: And that gave me my grounding and made me feel like an actor because even if I wasn't getting paid for it, and I really wasn't most of the time, I felt like I was an actor because I was acting.
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_01: And that that and the great thing is, you know, over 23 years on, red stitch is still humming.
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_01: And um, I'm really proud that I had a hand in building it in the early days.
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_00: And I think also for people who haven't yet, I mean, they have the most incredible uh plays, of which um in fact Joanna Murray Smith, who is also a friend, a shared friendship that we have, and she has just done this most incredible play, and it went very well, it was sold out, and and the the truth is that theatre is such an important part of our culture, but it's really challenging to make it sustainable, viable.
• 9:03
  SPEAKER_00: What's what was your what's your take on where theatre is today in terms of you obviously have been successful um on many fronts, but the theatre journey is a tough one, and yet we need to make sure that it's sustained and looked after and protected.
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_01: Weirdly, Deb, I feel more optimistic about theatre than I ever have.
• 9:23
  SPEAKER_00: Great.
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_01: Um, really, truly, because I think with the advent of AI and we're often not just watching one screen, we're watching two screens when we're you know watching TV or films streaming at home.
• 9:37
  SPEAKER_01: We're we're often not fully present.
• 9:40
  SPEAKER_01: And uh in a theatre, you you can't you can't have a screen on.
• 9:44
  SPEAKER_01: There's etiquette, you just can't.
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_01: You are there, you're in the dark, and you're having this shared experience.
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_01: And I think we're craving it.
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_01: And even though it's tough to make a good living out of theatre because it's just you know very expensive to do and to run, and we're not subsidized as some cultures subsidise their theatre, we don't, particularly in Australia, but I think there's such an appetite for authentic, real, visceral experiences, and so I feel like theaters where it's at at the moment, really.
• 10:12
  SPEAKER_01: It's great.
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_01: I um and I'm excited by some of the stuff I'm seeing.
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_00: Well, your point is really valid, I think, because with the distraction, like I know when you go to the theater and this is what you're referring to, you're right.
• 10:25
  SPEAKER_00: There's a sort of a sanctity and a sanctuary and a sense that you can't be distracted, you can't have your phones on, you've got to be quiet.
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_00: And there's something just so meditative about being present in the story.
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_00: And you're absolutely right.
• 10:39
  SPEAKER_00: And I hope and I think the next generation is seeking that.
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_00: It's sort of like, as you say, there's sort of almost a backlash to the constant distraction of streaming.
• 10:49
  SPEAKER_00: And you're right, you can have your phone, and then somebody, you know, just pause and yeah, I'm guilty of it.
• 10:53
  SPEAKER_01: I'll have a late five minutes in a waiting room and I'm I'm reeling, you know, I'm looking at reels, I'm not like I could be, you know, people watching, I could be doing other things, but it's so easy to just be distracted.
• 11:03
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, it is a friend of mine, Sarah Goods, who directed um Who's Afraid of Virginia Woolf, she calls theatre the last cave of humanity.
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_01: And I thought, oh, I love that.
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_00: Love that too.
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's so true.
• 11:15
  SPEAKER_00: On another note, obviously, moving on from theatre, you've been very successful with offspring and being in underbelly and and five um five bedrooms and just the presence you've had really on screen has elevated you into people's homes who can't get to the theater, who don't go to the theatre.
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_00: So there's also a validity in and a value in streaming and these series.
• 11:41
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, offspring was just such a huge hit.
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_00: And I also, you were also in is it one day?
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_00: Uh one night.
• 11:49
  SPEAKER_00: One night, oh my god.
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_00: That was based on the book.
• 11:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 11:53
  SPEAKER_00: And it was riveting that it was absolutely brilliant, I thought.
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_00: So for you, how did you make that transition into film and how hard was it?
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_00: And what was your experience?
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_01: I love, I love working uh in front of a camera as as well.
• 12:13
  SPEAKER_01: I love theatre, but I also love doing screen.
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_01: So when I when I when I'm championing how important theatre is, I mean it, but it's not to the no, I'm not taking any away from film, anything away from film and TV because I love I love them.
• 12:24
  SPEAKER_01: Um I didn't, it wasn't really a conscious thing though, Deb.
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_01: It was just like in Australia, especially or anywhere, it's not like you really design a career.
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_01: I was always doing, I've always done or tried to do screen work alongside theatre.
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_01: I think they they work different muscles.
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_01: And the key thing is being a part of a story or a script and embodying a character that that excites you.
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_01: And so whether it's screen or stage, I mean you want to mix it up, but it's it's not really by design.
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_01: I just I love both.
• 12:57
  SPEAKER_01: And so for me, I don't really sort of see it as a either or separate.
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and then yeah, my theatre work, the opportunities I was offered outside of Red Stitch in, you know, state theatre, they those opportunities improved because of TV, if I'm honest.
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_01: It's not like they saw me be in a in a in a play and said, Oh, we must give her this really good role here.
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_01: They saw me on TV and I had a the profile helps your theatre work.
• 13:21
  SPEAKER_01: So they kind of work together.
• 13:23
  SPEAKER_00: And also I can imagine it well, that would make a lot of sense.
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_00: And also, I suppose there is something really rewarding about reaching so many people on screen that you could otherwise not touch, right?
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_00: With with a role.
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and like it's yes, but at the same time, you're not aware of it because on the day, you're just performing for the crew, who are your friends, ideally.
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_01: So it's kind of it's it's it doesn't feel that different to performing in an intimate theater space, you know, you know, in a way, because it's it's lovely that it's seen by people, but you're not aware of that.
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_01: You're just doing it on the day, and that's for the the crew, which might be about 80 people anyway.
• 13:59
  SPEAKER_00: It's true, and you and your colleagues.
• 14:01
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and how did you find the the um I suppose the the skill set?
• 14:06
  SPEAKER_00: Do you think that evolved being sort of transitioning, as you say, you do both and you've done both at the same time.
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_00: But do you think you evolved into a different sort of actor when you went on screen?
• 14:17
  SPEAKER_00: Do you think that taught you different skill sets?
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_01: I um probably, but it's probably not super conscious.
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_01: But I will say that when I did, when I played Roberta in Underbelly, I had been doing a lot of theater and I hadn't done a lot of screen at that point.
• 14:34
  SPEAKER_01: I had I'd done some, but nothing as big as that.
• 14:38
  SPEAKER_01: And I think I had an unself-consciousness because of my theater.
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_01: I wasn't used to seeing myself on camera that I went pretty bold and pretty hard.
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_01: And if I'd done a lot of screen, I might not have my my my lack of experience in that area was probably a blessing.
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_01: Because when I actually watched it, I was mortified.
• 15:00
  SPEAKER_01: Well, you had to be a little bit more.
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_00: But that's actually a good point because you put yourself out there and you actually have to dive deep and you're you're pushed by the the director, the producer, the script, and you it definitely did work again, so it didn't go against you because you you actually I didn't leave the house for about I think I worked the ground for about three days, giving oh god, what have I done?
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_00: But um I think three days is fine as long as it's not three months, that's okay.
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_00: Um but I think yeah, you you know, in some ways, back to the bravery thing, you obviously have to have courage and you've got to be prepared to go where maybe you might otherwise out of that comfort zone, big time, yeah.
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I know look, I try and I've tried to learn from that too.
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_01: Matt, I try not to be vain or self-conscious when I'm in character.
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_01: I'm completely vain and self-conscious as me.
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_01: Like if I have to have my photo taken in character, no problem.
• 15:55
  SPEAKER_01: If I'm meant to be me and nice, I'm stiff as anything.
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_01: I find it quite hard.
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_01: I understand.
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_01: So, so yeah, I try to remember not to think about me, just to think about to be in the story.
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_01: And and that's that's the the great freedom of acting too.
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_01: You get to kind of have a holiday from yourself.
• 16:11
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and actually, I know other actors that say something very similar, and you become it's sort of like you're a conduit for the character and the person.
• 16:18
  SPEAKER_00: It's so much easier.
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's so much easier being someone else.
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_00: Um, just just on that quickly, you know, when you looked at offspring and you look at five bedrooms and underbelly, what was there some some sort of standout experience from any of those that, you know, little anecdote where you actually, you know, it's a fond memory or it's a scary memory, something that you went through on set, the challenge of being actually in that environment.
• 16:45
  SPEAKER_00: I'm sure offspring.
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_01: A couple of things.
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_01: Oh yeah, so offspring was such a long time.
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_01: So when lots of things happened during that show, just in life, you know.
• 16:54
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I was pregnant with my first my my son in series three.
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so that was big, and but but my character Billy wasn't pregnant, so we were I was at pains to kind of not to to not carry myself like I was pregnant.
• 17:09
  SPEAKER_01: So that was kind of a a bit of a mind trick.
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I'm sure.
• 17:13
  SPEAKER_01: That was big.
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_01: And then he was on set with me from you know a few weeks old, and then my daughter was on set with me for series six from three or four weeks old.
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_01: So they that was intense.
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_01: I don't really rem remember much to be honest.
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_01: That that was that was intense, but you know, how lucky to be supported by a show in that way and to be able to have my baby on set.
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_01: I was just thinking that, yeah, that's not incredible.
• 17:35
  SPEAKER_01: I do that was so lucky.
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_01: I do remember that that show kind of reached, we were kind of the first and second series did well, but it kind of kept building.
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_01: And I remember we kind of reached critical mass at around series four or five when um Dr.
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_01: Patrick was was killed and people were very upset.
• 17:52
  SPEAKER_01: And I remember shopping around that time, and uh it was at the point where I don't know, sorry apologies to bet people who never watched offspring, it'll still make no sense, but this is at a point where Dr.
• 18:03
  SPEAKER_01: Patrick had been killed and Billy and Nina were estranged.
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_01: Um Billy had gone off the rails and Nina needed Billy, and Billy was a wall.
• 18:13
  SPEAKER_01: And I remember um being in a shop, and the lady in the shop said, Your sister needs you.
• 18:20
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, that's actually hilarious.
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_00: So you'd actually have like seriously, that is isn't that incredible?
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_01: Like they just remember thinking, wow, people, this is you know, and I knew people had taken time off work, they were so upset.
• 18:34
  SPEAKER_01: Oh my god.
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_01: So it was, you know, bringing something that was really resonating with people, and they were really cross with the show.
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_01: He's such a loved, gorgeous character.
• 18:43
  SPEAKER_01: And I know that people were hugging um Matt Lenop as he played Patrick, you know, just holding him and weeping, you know, they were so glad to see him alive.
• 18:51
  SPEAKER_00: But that is, I remember that because I remember offspring.
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it really people were very invested, and same with Underbelly, which obviously was based on real events, but um it says something about the power you have to touch people, and you certainly, you know, you certainly did that in that.
• 19:09
  SPEAKER_01: Well, yeah, I'm glad to say I didn't kill Dr.
• 19:11
  SPEAKER_01: Patrick because no one's not.
• 19:12
  SPEAKER_00: No, you didn't.
• 19:13
  SPEAKER_00: No, I'm glad to hear that.
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_00: God help you.
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_00: You wouldn't have been shocking at all.
• 19:17
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, definitely never working again.
• 19:20
  SPEAKER_00: But um, but yeah, it does say something about you know, you invest, but it's wonderful to get that investment and that sense that you're actually touching people.
• 19:29
  SPEAKER_00: I think that must be that's the sort of the golden ticket, isn't it?
• 19:33
  SPEAKER_00: Really?
• 19:33
  SPEAKER_01: That's a lovely feeling.
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_01: It really is when you sort of because you you you do you do your best because you love it and you're doing it on the day, but then to kind of you sort of forget that it has another life and that it you know affects other people.
• 19:45
  SPEAKER_01: And that's really lovely when you when you get that penetration.
• 19:49
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's a good term for it, really.
• 19:51
  SPEAKER_00: So, in terms of moving forward, first of all, I just want to say Australian actors, it's not so easy to have the sort of successful trajectory that you've had.
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_00: In other words, you've pretty much worked quite continuously and certainly been present on stage and screen.
• 20:07
  SPEAKER_00: Do you think it's getting any easier for young actors coming up?
• 20:11
  SPEAKER_00: Or do you because there's now sort of almost a whole other raft of platforms with streaming on one hand?
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_01: So I know that there's Yeah, it's I think it's just, I mean, in some ways it's certainly better because I mean, I feel as an audience member too, I love how sophisticated Australian audiences are.
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_01: I love that our product needs to be world class to to get green lit.
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_01: And I love, yeah, I love that we have, we're at our fingertips, we have the best material in the world to look at, you know, in our lounge rooms.
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_01: It's amazing.
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_01: It's so how it was when I was growing up.
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so that's great, but it's certainly different.
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_01: And I know, you know, I've I read that in the last 12 months our production has contracted, you know, we're made we're making about 30% less.
• 20:57
  SPEAKER_01: We had COVID, we had the writer's strike, which impacted us, and then you know, there's all the cost of living stuff going on.
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_01: So it is certainly not a busy, busy time.
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_01: But I yeah, so there's different things going on.
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_01: So I don't know if it's better or worse, but it's different.
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_01: And I I love the fact that when I think we're making really great when it's getting made, I think we're making some absolutely fabulous, fabulous work.
• 21:23
  SPEAKER_00: Also, I think that there's a lot of production facilities now in Australia that you know is certainly has to be helping.
• 21:29
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, Gold Coast, Docklands, all of that.
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, that when you were started out, that none of that existed to that degree.
• 21:38
  SPEAKER_01: And much more, I think it's much more international now.
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_01: So generally speaking, you know, you don't get a production up with just Australian money, they're co-productions.
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_01: So and and and if you're in a show that's good, it's not just the domestic market.
• 21:54
  SPEAKER_01: It could be seen by everybody, and that's really exciting too.
• 21:57
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I agree with that.
• 21:58
  SPEAKER_00: That's so true.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, your role as an actor has also given you a platform.
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_00: And I know that you stand up for a very important cause, which I'm very also involved with, which is literacy.
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_00: I'm involved with the World Literacy Foundation.
• 22:13
  SPEAKER_00: We do a podcast, and I know you're very involved with literacy, and you have that wonderful t-shirt which I've posted, which you're wearing.
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_00: Tell me how literacy became a passion of yours or something that you felt you needed to advocate for.
• 22:27
  SPEAKER_01: I sort of, I'm not overly political, generally speaking.
• 22:30
  SPEAKER_01: I sort of don't know that that's necessarily what I mean, I feel strongly about things, but I I I believe that if we know each other's stories, there's that adage, it's impossible to hate a person whose story you know.
• 22:43
  SPEAKER_01: And if we if I that's what I love about what we do, I mean, I've played people that on paper I should have nothing in common with, but you get in there and you can see someone else's perspective.
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_01: And I feel like stories sharing stories, which is essentially what we do with with acting, is so important.
• 23:02
  SPEAKER_01: And and if you don't have the ability to read and write, you can't be a part of that.
• 23:09
  SPEAKER_01: You can't tell your story and you can't learn about other people's stories.
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_01: And so I just think it's the gateway to um opportunity, knowledge, standard of living.
• 23:19
  SPEAKER_01: It's just, it's just, it's it's it's about material and spiritual survival.
• 23:24
  SPEAKER_00: I I think that's a really amazing overview because I I think that people don't realize how many people can't read and write in our country.
• 23:33
  SPEAKER_00: People think it's, you know, and even in the US and globally, it's just it's an epidemic, really.
• 23:39
  SPEAKER_00: And it's true.
• 23:40
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's a beautiful way to, and you talk about walking in someone's shoes.
• 23:43
  SPEAKER_00: We literally can't.
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, what you can do through storytelling, as you've outlined, and through ensuring that everyone has literacy skills, and I think it's a very important cause.
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_00: So it's great.
• 23:55
  SPEAKER_00: I I totally see the resonance for you with acting and literacy, makes a lot of sense.
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_00: You've also got involved with the OCRF, another also cause, the Avarian Cancer Research Foundation, that um I've I've also interviewed a lot of scientists and people involved with that and a lot of the ambassadors.
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_00: Tell me why that was important to you because it's a very important cause.
• 24:19
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I I mean I'm I I don't have anyone, thank goodness, but I'm, you know, I don't know anyone personally at this stage who's had it.
• 24:29
  SPEAKER_01: But I just didn't realize what a doozy it was.
• 24:32
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't realise that we don't have a screening test for it.
• 24:35
  SPEAKER_01: No, no, it's insane.
• 24:36
  SPEAKER_01: I thought, I thought, I thought the pap smear, you know, I thought that was it.
• 24:40
  SPEAKER_01: Most people do.
• 24:41
  SPEAKER_01: That's what they think.
• 24:43
  SPEAKER_01: The lack of awareness.
• 24:44
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm, you know, I'm I'm relatively on the ball.
• 24:46
  SPEAKER_01: I thought that I didn't know that.
• 24:47
  SPEAKER_01: And I didn't know that the only way to know if you've got it is through exploratory surgery.
• 24:52
  SPEAKER_01: And it's basically it's just it's an absolute doozy, and and it we are all potentially ticking time bombs unless we we get science and research moving on it.
• 25:03
  SPEAKER_01: So when I was approached about the campaign and I learned a little bit more about it, I sort of thought, oh God, how can it be a no-brainer?
• 25:11
  SPEAKER_01: So um that's the witchery.
• 25:13
  SPEAKER_01: The witchery.
• 25:15
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 25:15
  SPEAKER_01: And what they do and have been doing for 17 years is quite extraordinary.
• 25:19
  SPEAKER_01: And they've raised there, I mean, they were really there's really promising research.
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_01: They talked about it there, the launch function, which is really exciting to think that they can actually find out.
• 25:28
  SPEAKER_01: And and then also if you've got it in your family, just the the things that that are possible and also treatment that's less invasive, medieval would be great.
• 25:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, medieval, yeah, it's true.
• 25:39
  SPEAKER_00: And in fact, they're very close to being able to fund this early detection test.
• 25:44
  SPEAKER_00: So because I've also been very involved, and I think that having people like yourself platform it is really important because, as you said, most people think a pap smear actually, I mean, we I think it's really common that perception.
• 25:57
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 25:58
  SPEAKER_00: Whereas now, when you now that you're involved and and you can see that actually it's not that, and that we need an early detection test, and I think they're making great progress.
• 26:07
  SPEAKER_00: One of the scientists that work working in that arena um who came on the podcast spoke extensively and said, we are really close.
• 26:15
  SPEAKER_00: So the funding.
• 26:16
  SPEAKER_00: So it's great you're involved with that as well.
• 26:18
  SPEAKER_00: On that note, among the many tests and things that we need to do as we mature, and I don't know if we're similar genre or vintage, should I say.
• 26:28
  SPEAKER_01: I think we probably are, Deb.
• 26:30
  SPEAKER_00: We're close.
• 26:32
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so the question to you is, and I I will talk to this because I think it's important.
• 26:37
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know about you, but a lot of the women that come on this show, and we're not all women on the show, have a lot of men as well.
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_00: But I think there's a power in aging if we use it in a particular way and we we rise with it.
• 26:48
  SPEAKER_00: What's your experience?
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_00: Because to me, that's just somebody like yourself thriving and surviving and going on this journey in the way that you are, both stage and screen, is really inspirational.
• 27:01
  SPEAKER_00: What's your experience of maturing?
• 27:04
  SPEAKER_01: Maturing?
• 27:05
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, I don't know.
• 27:06
  SPEAKER_01: It just sort of happens to you, doesn't it?
• 27:08
  SPEAKER_01: It does.
• 27:09
  SPEAKER_01: Hey, you're a mum.
• 27:10
  SPEAKER_01: You're a mum too.
• 27:11
  SPEAKER_01: You don't have an opt-in or an opt-out.
• 27:13
  SPEAKER_01: No, you don't.
• 27:14
  SPEAKER_01: So you've got to make a well the opt-out is is yeah, no, it's pretty bleak.
• 27:17
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm very glad to be here.
• 27:19
  SPEAKER_01: Um I'm I'm sort of I think I'm 52.
• 27:25
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm sort of it's a weird stage.
• 27:28
  SPEAKER_01: I've joked about it with with a friend of mine who says like we're too old to be hot and too hot to be old.
• 27:35
  SPEAKER_00: I love that.
• 27:36
  SPEAKER_00: I'm using that.
• 27:37
  SPEAKER_00: Can I use that with my girlfriends?
• 27:39
  SPEAKER_00: Because I love that.
• 27:40
  SPEAKER_01: It's sort of weird in between.
• 27:42
  SPEAKER_01: Like I can't play grandma quite, but but you know, I'm not the romantic lead, traditional lead.
• 27:47
  SPEAKER_01: But there but I I know for a fact, because I've got girlfriends who are in my vintage, we're at a really interesting time in our lives, but it's just getting those stories and that those that representation on screen more because we are kind of you get a bit underrepresented when you get over, say, 40, 45.
• 28:06
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 28:06
  SPEAKER_01: So that's kind of the challenge.
• 28:07
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm sort of put I'm putting energy into developing some projects that I would I would like to be in, but but that have characters like that are represented from that that kind of era because I think it's an interesting, it's a really interesting time of life.
• 28:22
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but it's not the traditional boy meets girl kind of you know time subject, I suppose.
• 28:27
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 28:28
  SPEAKER_01: Um so I guess I'm just doing it.
• 28:30
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I had my kids on the later side.
• 28:33
  SPEAKER_01: I was 39 and 43 when I had both my kids, and so um, so they're kind of keeping me young, like you know, in a way, because I you know they're they're full of beans.
• 28:44
  SPEAKER_01: But I I'm just you know, muddling through, I guess.
• 28:47
  SPEAKER_01: But I I certainly know that me and and my friends, we've got plenty to do and plenty of energy, and I and I'm but I'm I take great comfort because I'm um one of my favorite things about my job is that I get to work with people much older than me and much younger than me.
• 29:01
  SPEAKER_01: And I love how front-footed, you know, the early 20s women are.
• 29:06
  SPEAKER_01: I just love it.
• 29:07
  SPEAKER_01: I love that they they take up this space and they they they own it, they just own it.
• 29:13
  SPEAKER_01: They own it.
• 29:13
  SPEAKER_01: They're not people pleasing.
• 29:15
  SPEAKER_01: I was raised to be a people pleaser.
• 29:16
  SPEAKER_01: I th there's none of that with them.
• 29:17
  SPEAKER_01: I just love it.
• 29:18
  SPEAKER_01: I love it.
• 29:18
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's it's great.
• 29:20
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I I agree with you, and I've actually got 20-year-olds and 30-year-olds.
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_00: And I know you're absolutely right, but I think working as you see, once upon a time in midlife, people sort of settled back a bit more.
• 29:36
  SPEAKER_00: I think a lot of our generation, my experience, is that we're still flying high, working hard, feeling engaged.
• 29:44
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that's a big part of it.
• 29:45
  SPEAKER_00: I certainly know all my girlfriends work, most of them, I'd say 98% of them.
• 29:50
  SPEAKER_00: But do you think work in itself is a great vehicle to stay engaged and present?
• 29:54
  SPEAKER_00: And as you said, you work with older people, you work with younger people.
• 29:57
  SPEAKER_00: That keeps you connected, like otherwise, there's not that disengagement.
• 30:02
  SPEAKER_01: I think work's important and also we just live longer.
• 30:05
  SPEAKER_01: Like we can't, so middle age is just sort of being edged, edged out.
• 30:10
  SPEAKER_01: People used to die at 60 and we know we we last until our mid 80s these days.
• 30:16
  SPEAKER_01: It's so true.
• 30:17
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and we were able to look after ourselves better.
• 30:20
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so we're more informed.
• 30:23
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, more informed, we're more interested in our in our health and our energy, and I think we're more likely to put ourselves not always last.
• 30:32
  SPEAKER_00: So I guess yeah.
• 30:33
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, we've we we are definitely evolving, but a lot of that comes from the social media sort of people putting themselves out there in midlife and just saying, here I am, and I'm doing my thing and streaming.
• 30:44
  SPEAKER_00: And there's a sense that I don't know, I just feel we're not as invisible as I think the generation before felt.
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I was thinking my mum, my mum didn't, my mum was uh was at home with us, which was great for us, but I don't know if it was always great for her, maybe it was, but um, she so she wasn't as visible when we when she needed to, when we stopped, when we when we stopped depending on her in that same way.
• 31:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, the working you're still you're in the world more, I suppose.
• 31:12
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know, I guess it's a lot of things.
• 31:14
  SPEAKER_01: And it's a lot of the where the beneficiaries of a lot of the gains that the the women before us have made.
• 31:21
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, if we were if we were just, you know, um had were working with an apron and looking after the grandkids all the time, you know, it might be different, but we've got we've got lots of options.
• 31:31
  SPEAKER_00: I agree with you, and I think also we're great role models.
• 31:35
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, my mum worked full-time, and I think she was a great role model, but she had four kids, and I look at her with awe, just going, How did you do that?
• 31:41
  SPEAKER_00: Like insane.
• 31:43
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I think as long as we don't, and this is also important, is as long as the next generation or our generation teaches that there are choices, but sometimes so much choice they get a little bamboozled about, you know, how do you do it all?
• 31:56
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, you can do it all, just not all at once.
• 31:59
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that's that's a thousand percent.
• 32:02
  SPEAKER_00: You know, that's sort of like the nugget in my experience.
• 32:05
  SPEAKER_00: And from interviewing people of our generation, most of them have had that.
• 32:10
  SPEAKER_00: But I love your, I have to say, I love your story of being on set with your young child, your young babies, because that's really special that you could manage that and you could do that.
• 32:20
  SPEAKER_00: And that's just something, it's testimony to you, but also to the environment that you're working in.
• 32:25
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I've got to say, Deb, I probably wasn't doing my best work.
• 32:29
  SPEAKER_01: Well tired.
• 32:30
  SPEAKER_00: It sounds like it went pretty well from what I think.
• 32:33
  SPEAKER_01: But I'm that was also a credit to the a production being super supportive and saying, what do you need?
• 32:39
  SPEAKER_01: And so I was I was very lucky.
• 32:41
  SPEAKER_01: And I usually that's I know for most people that's not an option, you know.
• 32:44
  SPEAKER_01: They I was very lucky.
• 32:46
  SPEAKER_00: And just just before we go, just let me know what are you doing next?
• 32:49
  SPEAKER_00: What's on Slate?
• 32:50
  SPEAKER_00: Is it something you can talk about?
• 32:52
  SPEAKER_01: I'm uh I'm developing a couple of things which are at different stages.
• 32:56
  SPEAKER_01: I'm hoping one of them will happen early next year, but I I can't, I can't talk about it.
• 33:02
  SPEAKER_01: I'm doing a bit in a film coming up, which I probably can't talk about either.
• 33:06
  SPEAKER_01: The one thing I can talk about this year is um another season of Who's Afraid of Virginia Wolf at Sydney Theatre Company.
• 33:12
  SPEAKER_01: Wonderful! Yes, I'm I'm thrilled about that.
• 33:15
  SPEAKER_01: So that's um we've we've done a season of that originally at Red Stitch, and then we went to the comedy theatre, and then yeah, we're going to in November, December this year, we'll be at um the Roslyn Packer Theatre for Sydney Theatre Company.
• 33:28
  SPEAKER_01: Well, that's exciting.
• 33:29
  SPEAKER_00: One of my favourite plays.
• 33:30
  SPEAKER_00: That is so much.
• 33:31
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, me too, me too.
• 33:32
  SPEAKER_01: So they're all the same team, same cast.
• 33:34
  SPEAKER_00: So we're excited.
• 33:36
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, well, my listeners can put that in their diaries, but I'm sure there'll be plenty of media around that.
• 33:40
  SPEAKER_00: Well, thank you so much, Kat.
• 33:42
  SPEAKER_00: I really love chatting to you.
• 33:44
  SPEAKER_00: Um, Deb.
• 33:45
  SPEAKER_00: Pleasure.
• 33:45
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I look forward to seeing what you do next.
• 33:48
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, thank you, and I'll keep listening.
• 33:50
  SPEAKER_01: I've I've I'm on your podcast, I'm onto your podcast now.
• 33:52
  SPEAKER_01: I've been listening to you lots.
• 33:54
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, great.
• 33:54
  SPEAKER_00: I'm so glad.
• 33:55
  SPEAKER_00: That that means a lot.
• 33:57
  SPEAKER_00: All right, you take care.
• 33:59
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks, you too.
• 34:05
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks so much for listening.
• 34:07
  SPEAKER_00: I'm blessed to have so many wonderful guests coming on the show.
• 34:10
  SPEAKER_00: So check out my What I've Learned Instagram for updates.
• 34:14
  SPEAKER_00: Meanwhile, stay tuned, kind, and curious.
• 34:17
  SPEAKER_00: Love Dev.