Latest / Beyond Labels Premium / Episode #164: Joel Salatin's Plan to "Make America Healthy Again"

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Episode #164: Joel Salatin's Plan to "Make America Healthy Again" · Beyond Labels Premium

0:00
SPEAKER_00: Here's my take on this, and this is what I want our our listeners to take from me on this.
0:07
SPEAKER_00: To me, all of this is basically exchanging one nanny state for another nanny state.
0:14
SPEAKER_01: Hello, welcome to another episode of Beyond Labels.
0:17
SPEAKER_01: I'm Dr.
0:17
SPEAKER_01: Cena McCullough, and I'm here with our favorite farmer, Joel Salatin.
0:23
SPEAKER_01: And today, Joel is gonna provide a little treat for us because Make America Healthy Again is trending, right?
0:31
SPEAKER_01: Everyone's talking about it.
0:32
SPEAKER_01: Even the former CDC director came out and praised it.
0:36
SPEAKER_01: Um Dems hate it, apparently.
0:39
SPEAKER_01: So I we want to hear what Joel has to say about it.
0:44
SPEAKER_01: So today is gonna be all things Joel with Make America Healthy Again.
0:49
SPEAKER_01: Take it away.
0:51
SPEAKER_00: Oh so you know, yeah, you'll you'll uh you'll chime in plenty, I'm sure.
0:54
SPEAKER_00: But uh yeah, there's there's just been a plethora of discussion uh at the at the you know high levels about uh our RFK Jr.'s uh Make America Healthy Again agenda.
1:09
SPEAKER_00: And um, and this is by this is not a partisan um episode at all.
1:16
SPEAKER_00: Let me just say though that I honor and appreciate RFK Jr.'s um emphasis on this.
1:25
SPEAKER_00: We have not had a national presidential candidate that I can remember ever, and I have a pretty long memory now because I'm an old geezer, uh, who have who has ever really brought these kinds of issues to the national stage.
1:41
SPEAKER_00: To be fair, we've never had the trend lines we have now.
1:46
SPEAKER_00: I mean, uh the the trend lines for autism, the trend lines for diabetes, the trend lines for lower life expectancy rather than higher life expectancy.
1:55
SPEAKER_00: I mean, it's it's all over the media now, and and um, and so uh I for one am deeply appreciative that there are there are powerful interests and people actually talking about make America healthy again.
2:11
SPEAKER_00: I I'm not sure I'm not sure how healthy America ever was.
2:16
SPEAKER_00: Um just so uh I I'm not I'm not ready to go all that, but but I appreciate the discussion.
2:24
SPEAKER_00: So um, so about um in at the end of uh September, um RFK Jr.
2:32
SPEAKER_00: had an op-ed in the Wall Street Journal in which he identified uh a bunch of his you know ideas for making America healthy again.
2:41
SPEAKER_00: And um, you know, some of them were things like reform the prescription drug user fee act, uh, you know, to reduce the pharmaceutical industry influence, you know, influencing the Food and Drug Administration.
2:55
SPEAKER_00: One was, for example, to um prohibit the U.S.
2:59
SPEAKER_00: Department of Agriculture, USDA, nutrition um members from from profiting from food and drug companies, uh, reducing that conflict of interest.
3:10
SPEAKER_00: Um you know, another one was uh to cap drug prices to align you know our domestic prices here with international prices.
3:21
SPEAKER_00: Um another one is you know to restrict you know the supplemental nutrition assistance program that's known as SNAP, formerly food stamps, uh, from from those benefits being used to buy, for example, uh Coca-Cola, Pepsi Cola.
3:37
SPEAKER_00: A lot of people don't realize right now that and and this has been brought to the national states.
3:41
SPEAKER_00: I think it's a good thing that nine billion dollars.
3:44
SPEAKER_00: You ready for this, Zena?
3:46
SPEAKER_00: Nine billion dollars of Snap money goes to Coca-Cola, Mountain Dew, Pepsi Cola, Dr.
3:52
SPEAKER_00: Pepper.
3:53
SPEAKER_00: Oh nine, nine billion dollars a year of Snap money.
4:00
SPEAKER_01: That's unbelievable.
4:01
SPEAKER_01: Because that also tells you Yeah.
4:04
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it it uh it well, how does it make me feel?
4:07
SPEAKER_01: It actually makes me feel upset because my tax dollars are subsidizing that.
4:13
SPEAKER_01: So, in essence, I'm giving that money to those companies that I don't want to support with my dollars.
4:19
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
4:20
SPEAKER_00: If we keep going the way we're going, though, you won't be able to say your tax dollars because now uh we we print we print more dollars than we get in taxes.
4:28
SPEAKER_00: So now your tax dollars, we just we just run the printing presses, you know, and and inflate the money supply.
4:35
SPEAKER_00: Um okay, let's look a few more of these RFK junior uh things.
4:39
SPEAKER_00: Um, another one is to um, for example, require nutrition education in uh medical schools and and functional medicine.
4:48
SPEAKER_00: I don't know about you, Cena, but I've I've run into a lot.
4:52
SPEAKER_00: Functional medicine is really getting traction.
4:58
SPEAKER_00: People are burned out on their whatever, on their conventional medical doctors.
5:04
SPEAKER_00: You know, I saw a survey last week that pre-COVID, uh, they did a survey on do you trust your um what is your trust of doctors or something like that?
5:16
SPEAKER_00: And uh it was 70% was you know at the you know in in a score of one to five, okay.
5:22
SPEAKER_00: 70 77 were at a five, you know, a very high level.
5:27
SPEAKER_00: Today it's 33%.
5:31
SPEAKER_00: Wow.
5:32
SPEAKER_00: So COVID as a culture, COVID dropped our trust in doctors by four by 40, 44 percent.
5:40
SPEAKER_00: I mean, that's that's incredible.
5:44
SPEAKER_01: Wow, that's that is incredible.
5:46
SPEAKER_01: You know, uh, I'm so glad I didn't become a medical doctor.
5:49
SPEAKER_01: That was my one of my original tracks is I was gonna be a medical doctor because my dad said that if I chose to be a medical doctor versus a PhD, he would pay for my college.
6:00
SPEAKER_01: So I was like, oh, that's tempting, but he wouldn't pay if I was gonna be a medical doctor, uh, if I was gonna be a PhD, because he said that's not, quote, a real doctor, right?
6:09
SPEAKER_01: So I always carried that, yeah, I always carried that shame with me because I chose the PhD route.
6:14
SPEAKER_01: And then um, remember Dr.
6:16
SPEAKER_01: Peter Osborne, who we had at Two Days of Truth, and you know, good friend of mine.
6:20
SPEAKER_01: Um, it was a couple years ago I was speaking with him on the phone, and I said, you know, oh gosh, I kind of wish sometimes that I had been a medical doctor because I can't write prescriptions, you know?
6:33
SPEAKER_01: And he heard kind of the shame in my voice, and he he said, No, don't ever have regret that you didn't become a medical doctor because number one, people don't trust medical doctors anymore.
6:46
SPEAKER_01: And he said, number two, look what they're taught.
6:48
SPEAKER_01: He's like, if you were a medical doctor, you probably would have been dead by now because you couldn't have figured out what was wrong with you, right?
6:54
SPEAKER_01: So he was like, he basically be encouraged and be proud of being the PhD because you did you did the right choice, you know?
7:05
SPEAKER_01: So yeah, it's it's exactly what you're saying.
7:07
SPEAKER_01: Like people are coming around to not even pursuing often the conventional medical doctors anymore.
7:14
SPEAKER_01: But a lot of people I know are looking at these functional doctors or these alternative doctors, right?
7:20
SPEAKER_01: Because they've been because the the way that they'll say it is the Western medical system has failed me.
7:26
unknown: Right.
7:27
SPEAKER_01: Okay, but that's not actually true.
7:29
SPEAKER_01: All right, and I know this is kind of an aside, but if it fits into some way what you're talking about with RFK Jr.'s stance on this, it's not that that system has actually failed you, it's that you had a misplaced expectation of what that system can provide to you.
7:45
SPEAKER_01: Well, yeah, it's not designed that way, right?
7:48
SPEAKER_01: That system was never designed to do preventative medicine, it is fantastic at emergency care, right?
7:58
SPEAKER_01: Best best in the world, right?
8:00
SPEAKER_01: If I get shot, I'm going to the hospital, right?
8:02
SPEAKER_01: Like they are they are fantastic at that.
8:05
SPEAKER_01: It is not designed and they are not taught about preventative care.
8:10
SPEAKER_01: Okay, so like when we talked about in one of the other episodes, the FDA's new program, the you know, the new uh unified humans food program, and now how they're in charge of the response to chronic diseases, right?
8:25
SPEAKER_01: The nutrition component of chronic disease.
8:28
SPEAKER_01: That that's my concern is that they don't really understand that they can't use that model that we currently have to combat chronic disease.
8:38
SPEAKER_01: They're gonna have to create another model.
8:40
SPEAKER_01: And I think it sounds like that's what you're saying is that is this correct that our I haven't read through his tenets myself.
8:46
SPEAKER_01: Is RFK Jr.
8:47
SPEAKER_01: saying that in the medical schools, in nutrition schools, they need to be taught more a functional approach as opposed to the USDA food guide pyramid, right?
9:00
SPEAKER_01: Is that what you're saying?
9:02
SPEAKER_00: That that that's exactly, yeah, that that's exactly it.
9:04
SPEAKER_00: But but Cena, here's the and I'm getting a little bit ahead of the where I wanted to go right now, but but you you know that system.
9:13
SPEAKER_00: And so my question is if if the if the medical system doesn't even believe in nutrition, if the USDA doesn't, I mean the USDA has now come out in the last what two weeks and said that um that Cheerios and Fruit Loops are more nutritious than beef.
9:33
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
9:34
SPEAKER_00: So so so you know, if if you have a system that actually says that, what are the chances that medical doctor students, you know, students that are in the MD, what are the chances that that teachers are going to teach them functional, I mean functional medicine?
9:52
SPEAKER_00: I mean, it i i if if they believed it, they would teach it anyway, they wouldn't have to be, I mean, can you imagine being mandated?
10:00
SPEAKER_00: You have to teach this.
10:01
SPEAKER_00: I know you don't believe it, I know you don't agree with it, but you have to, I mean, it's it's ridiculous, it's at least in my view.
10:09
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so so I agree, but here's the thing there's already mandates, right, on what they have to teach.
10:15
SPEAKER_01: And the mandates in large part come from the pharmaceutical companies who are on the board, who fund the the institutions, right?
10:25
SPEAKER_01: And the medical schools.
10:27
SPEAKER_01: So they've changed the curriculum.
10:30
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and and this happened way back, you know, decades and decades ago, like starting in, I believe, the 1920s.
10:36
SPEAKER_01: So it's not a new thing.
10:38
SPEAKER_01: The the curriculum was way different than it is now in medical schools.
10:44
SPEAKER_01: They used to teach alternative medicine, right?
10:46
SPEAKER_01: They used to teach about herbals and um homeopathy and the importance of diet.
10:52
SPEAKER_01: That was in the curriculum.
10:54
SPEAKER_01: Then Rockefeller came along and whatnot, you know, Flexner report.
10:57
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you're you're go you're going way back to where it was it was basically a completely uh private medical system.
11:05
SPEAKER_00: It wasn't it wasn't a licensing thing, it wasn't a government thing, it was it was like completely it was a completely performance oriented, and when a doctor, when when a when a practice I'll just say a practitioner, forget the doctor, just a practitioner started having success with a certain regimen, people started coming to him.
11:25
SPEAKER_00: I mean, the the press wrote about hey, this this guy's having success with this over here.
11:30
SPEAKER_00: They didn't really care if he was a uh MD, they didn't care if he was licensed, they didn't care, they just this guy's having having you know success with this.
11:38
SPEAKER_00: Boy, can you imagine if that kind of performance-based, you know, like like uh new journalistic newspaper exposure performance-based accreditation was still used in the you know in the medical profession.
11:55
SPEAKER_01: Oh my gosh, we would have an entirely different system, and I would bet we would not have the rates of disease that we have today.
12:02
SPEAKER_01: You know, I mean it dramatically changed when that Flexner report came out, and then then you had to have that certification, you know, that that license and everything.
12:10
SPEAKER_01: And then that's when they started picking and choosing the winners and the losers.
12:13
SPEAKER_01: And guess who were the losers, right?
12:16
SPEAKER_01: The alternative medicine.
12:17
SPEAKER_01: So so now you have a system.
12:19
SPEAKER_01: So fast forward to today, now you have that system that is largely governed in a way, uh, in particular financial ties, by the pharmaceutical industry.
12:30
SPEAKER_01: So to do the things to your point, to do implement these changes that that RFK Junior wants to implement, you have to get the pharmaceutical companies out of the medical schools.
12:43
SPEAKER_01: You also have to get them out of the medical offices, right?
12:46
SPEAKER_01: The the doctor's offices, right?
12:48
SPEAKER_01: Right?
12:48
SPEAKER_01: That's huge, right?
12:49
SPEAKER_01: They're in the schools and then they're there in the offices, and they do provide perks.
12:53
SPEAKER_01: And we can go on and on that, but the doctors, some of the doctors in the fields can get cuts, you know, from uh financial cuts from um prescribing medications.
13:03
SPEAKER_00: So yeah, they get country club club country club memberships, they get they get uh, you know, uh trips to Tahiti and um and and you know, and free um and and note notepads, notepads to take their notes on.
13:16
SPEAKER_00: You know, they're all they all got their pharmaceutical let's go along with it.
13:20
SPEAKER_01: Um okay, but real fast, let me say to your point though, I think you're absolutely right.
13:23
SPEAKER_01: I don't know if this is where you're going or not, but it's like you're trying to take a system and completely flip it on its head and change the way that they're taught, like change the where the money's coming from.
13:36
SPEAKER_01: You're changing the entire curriculum, you know, and then you're changing how the doctors operate in their day-to-day functions in their medical offices.
13:46
SPEAKER_01: That to me seems like an insurmountable challenge.
13:49
SPEAKER_01: You have to create a parallel system.
13:52
SPEAKER_00: All right.
13:52
SPEAKER_00: Uh, as is so common, you and I are thinking very, very similarly here.
13:56
SPEAKER_00: I mean, I view it as it's all it's almost like it's almost like taking the basketball team and saying, you know what, we're not gonna play basketball, we're gonna play football.
14:05
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
14:06
SPEAKER_00: And I I mean it it just it it it does it doesn't fit.
14:09
SPEAKER_00: It it it doesn't, there's so much in this.
14:11
SPEAKER_00: All right, another couple ones.
14:12
SPEAKER_00: Um, another one is like um uh reform reform crop subsidies to promote healthier food production.
14:21
SPEAKER_00: Um okay, so those are some of the RFK junior things.
14:24
SPEAKER_00: And you know what?
14:24
SPEAKER_00: They sound good.
14:25
SPEAKER_00: They sound yeah good night.
14:27
SPEAKER_00: You know, we're uh who who can who can be opposed to this?
14:31
SPEAKER_00: Um well I can, so I'll tell you that in a minute.
14:33
SPEAKER_00: But um but but uh what this has what what what this op-ed in the Wall Street Journal spawned were were were were piggybacks in other you know uh media places, one of which was in uh Epoch Times, which then carried a full page uh column by a pediatrician in uh California saying um that that that RFK didn't go far enough.
15:00
SPEAKER_00: Here, here you know we need we need to go we need to go farther in this.
15:03
SPEAKER_00: So wow.
15:04
SPEAKER_00: This is just an example of what I'm seeing of of well-meaning, sincere-minded.
15:11
SPEAKER_00: Uh there's no character assassination here, okay?
15:14
SPEAKER_00: Uh, but but you know, saying, okay, we got momentum here, let's let's take this another step.
15:20
SPEAKER_00: And so, for example, um a couple one one is uh recreate the food pyramid uh from a simpler, healthier approach, and put, for example, you know, pasture-based meat on the bottom and eggs and poultry and um and vegetables, and then you know, the the Cheerios up at the top instead of the bottom.
15:43
SPEAKER_00: Um another one is uh corporate wellness mandates.
15:47
SPEAKER_00: Companies with more than 100 employees should be required to offer wellness programs that include fitness classes, nutritional counseling, and mental health services, blah, blah, blah.
15:58
SPEAKER_00: Um uh true health education reform for the health literacy.
16:05
SPEAKER_00: Um true health education must be mandatory from elementary school through high school.
16:11
SPEAKER_00: Curriculum would focus on nutrition, physical fitness, mental health, blah, blah, blah.
16:16
SPEAKER_00: Um, urban planning, urban agriculture, um, you know, have uh bike lanes and green spaces, community gardens in urban sectors.
16:26
SPEAKER_00: Um uh to protect children, stricter regulations should be implemented on the marketing of unhealthy foods, especially during television shows geared to an audience of children.
16:36
SPEAKER_00: So we're gonna now regulate when a company can advertise on TV so they don't have uh Coke, Coke advertised to kids.
16:44
SPEAKER_00: Um transitioning monocrop subsidies, moving from uh government shifting subsidies from monocrops over to subsidizing sustainable and organic practices, blah, blah, blah.
17:00
SPEAKER_00: Um, okay, you you you get the you get the idea.
17:03
SPEAKER_00: Here, here's here's here's my my take on this, and this is what I want our our listeners to take from from me on this.
17:12
SPEAKER_00: To me, all of this is basically exchanging one nanny state for another nanny state.
17:21
SPEAKER_01: Wait, Joel, you and I are so alike.
17:23
SPEAKER_01: I took I wrote occasionally when you're talking, I'll write like a word or two, but uh so I can remember my point.
17:29
SPEAKER_01: And this is what I wrote.
17:30
SPEAKER_01: Sounds great, but nanny state.
17:33
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
17:34
SPEAKER_00: Well, you even made it rhyme.
17:35
SPEAKER_00: That's even better than mine.
17:36
SPEAKER_00: Sounds great, nanny state.
17:38
SPEAKER_00: I mean, that that could be uh well that we almost got the making of a country song here, Cena.
17:44
SPEAKER_00: Uh, you know, country music songs are all wrapped around one phrase.
17:48
SPEAKER_00: There's one phrase, and then and then they do an intro, they do a you know, uh uh, you know, a conclusion, and and it's all wrapped around this one little phrase.
17:56
SPEAKER_00: That's our phrase.
17:57
SPEAKER_00: Sounds great, nanny state.
17:59
SPEAKER_00: I gotta work with that.
18:00
SPEAKER_01: That that that sounds it sounds great, but nanny state.
18:03
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you know what?
18:04
SPEAKER_01: I've always wanted to write a song.
18:06
SPEAKER_01: This could be our first.
18:10
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
18:11
SPEAKER_00: So so so here's the thing.
18:14
SPEAKER_00: Um the the it it it all sounds nice, and and and I I deeply appreciate people that are looking at these things, but really is is are we gonna have another government agency that's gonna mandate um businesses with a have a wellness program?
18:34
SPEAKER_00: I mean, I mean, just just that.
18:36
SPEAKER_00: Imagine, imagine the paperwork, the compliance, the licensing that would be on a business.
18:42
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, the cost.
18:43
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, right, right.
18:45
SPEAKER_00: Uh um, are we really gonna start subsidizing organic and subsidizing um non-monocrops?
18:52
SPEAKER_00: Oh my goodness, you know, as if as if, well, you know, subsidizing six crops isn't good enough.
18:57
SPEAKER_00: So now we're gonna subsidize a hundred, you know.
19:00
SPEAKER_00: Boy, that sounds like a good program to me.
19:02
SPEAKER_00: Uh you know, you know, and and and so where I am, and I know this will this will um uh be a bit of a interesting take, the the answer is not exchanging one one nanny state for another nanny state.
19:22
SPEAKER_00: The answer is in just eliminating the nanny state, eliminating the intervention of the government in all of the all of these things that that that these guys are talking about, just eliminate it.
19:42
SPEAKER_00: I mean when you look when you look at the the causes or the you know the uh how do we get to where we've gotten?
19:52
SPEAKER_00: We got to where we got because we did what we did.
19:58
SPEAKER_00: And what we did was ask for government oversight on everything from spit to chicken poo, and and and and and and suddenly we find ourselves in a in an unhealthy spot.
20:14
SPEAKER_00: And so uh so if we uh I mean just just to take one example um 70, I think it's 70 percent, maybe it's eighty percent of all first time first time drug use happens in the public school.
20:32
SPEAKER_00: Oh wow.
20:33
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's it's huge.
20:36
SPEAKER_00: So why not just eliminate public education, put that back on the states?
20:42
SPEAKER_00: Some states will have public education, some won't, some will have a really low tax rate.
20:47
SPEAKER_00: You can buy your own ad and maybe ever get a voucher.
20:51
SPEAKER_00: Um, I mean there there's there's tons of ways, but the but but my point is that where do you get where do you get the the the uh where do you get the peer dependency, the social pressure, and and the uh all of this to um to move a culture into where it is, well it starts in places.
21:18
SPEAKER_00: I mean, get the government out of healthcare uh completely.
21:21
SPEAKER_00: I mean, Teresa and I have made the decision not to take Medicare.
21:25
SPEAKER_00: You know, we've paid who knows how many thousands of dollars in it all our life.
21:28
SPEAKER_00: We're now, you know, old, uh supposed to go on Medicare.
21:32
SPEAKER_00: We're not we're not gonna go on to it because I don't want the government to tell me where to go.
21:37
SPEAKER_00: And and so we have, I I guess for me the bottom line is we've got we've got so many people now uh like us who want to disentangle from the system and disempower the system and yet we we'd rather just rearrange the deck chairs on the Titanic.
22:00
SPEAKER_00: Instead of changing course and getting out of the icebergs.
22:04
SPEAKER_00: And that's what I see here.
22:07
SPEAKER_00: Now dismantling or or eliminating, abolishing, for example, the USDA, abolishing Medicare, abolishing the public school system, abolishing the energy, you know, these are those are you could say, well, that's that's silly.
22:27
SPEAKER_00: But to me, that argument is more consistent and less hypocritical than simply exchanging one one agency for another or one bureaucrat for another.
22:45
SPEAKER_00: That becomes a very dicey argument.
22:47
SPEAKER_00: Well, how are you gonna make sure those bureaucrats are honest?
22:49
SPEAKER_00: How are you gonna make sure that they actually do teach nutrition?
22:53
SPEAKER_00: Who's nutrition?
22:54
SPEAKER_00: Who's gonna be?
22:56
SPEAKER_00: Who's gonna who's gonna uh um you know who's gonna underwrite the um whatever the the curriculum, um, you know, all of those things.
23:06
SPEAKER_00: And the fact is, Cena, we've still got McDonald's is still building restaurants.
23:13
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
23:15
SPEAKER_00: And and and so so while I am the first to admit that the notion of getting the government out of education, I mean the land grant universities, half the problems we've got came out of land grant universities.
23:27
SPEAKER_00: And now we've got whatever, a hundred small universities going out of business this year.
23:31
SPEAKER_00: We're gonna have more centralized education, everybody's gonna go to these bigger colleges, subsidized by the government, that are gonna teach everything from, you know, uh, well, things that are uh dysfunctional.
23:43
SPEAKER_00: And and and and this just exacerbates the situation.
23:48
SPEAKER_00: So let's let's go to the root of the problem and say if the if if our if our uh if our place where we are was um was facilitated by the federal government, uh federal government involvement, if we're gonna change, we need to start reducing the federal government's involvement, period.
24:19
SPEAKER_00: And while that may sound like tilting at windmills, you know, um the dream the impossible dream, I I I actually think it's no it's no more difficult than telling than telling um schools that they have to start teaching a nutrition program.
24:44
SPEAKER_00: I I don't think there's any difference in the two.
24:47
SPEAKER_00: And and the beauty of my more libertarian thought is that at least at least you can be you can be consistent and you don't have to deal with the argument of, okay, so where are we where are we going to find these better bureaucrats?
25:02
SPEAKER_00: You know, where are we gonna find these better people to run these better agencies, to run this better government?
25:07
SPEAKER_00: I mean, you start down that path and and and and you end up, you know, it's it's it's back to power corrupts and absolute power corrupts, absolutely.
25:15
SPEAKER_00: And and so um so while I I don't think for a minute that tomorrow we can eliminate federal government involvement in many of these things, I'm not that naive, uh, I think that it does create a more precise um defensible consistent philosophy than exchanging one one agency for another agency or one emphasis, one one federal, one federal uh agenda for a re a revamped federal agenda.
25:53
SPEAKER_01: You know, I agree.
25:54
SPEAKER_01: And I wanted to read a quote if in case people hadn't seen this one yet.
25:58
SPEAKER_01: This was from the former CDC director uh Robert Redfield.
26:03
SPEAKER_01: Uh, you know, he's the one that came out and praised Make America Healthy Again.
26:08
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
26:09
SPEAKER_01: And so this is what he says.
26:11
SPEAKER_01: Uh, Kennedy is right.
26:13
SPEAKER_01: All three of the principal health agencies suffer from agency capture.
26:19
SPEAKER_01: Okay, and this is coming from a former CDC director.
26:22
SPEAKER_01: Okay, he continues a large portion of the FDA's budget is provided by pharmaceutical companies.
26:30
SPEAKER_01: NIH, the National Institute of Health, is cozy with biomedical and pharmaceutical companies, and its scientists are allowed to collect royalties on drugs, NIH licenses to pharma.
26:43
SPEAKER_01: As the former director of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, I know the agency can be influenced by special interest groups.
26:53
SPEAKER_01: Okay, so so a couple thoughts for me.
26:56
SPEAKER_01: Number one is if anybody ever doubted that there was regulatory capture, right, then they shouldn't by this point.
27:07
SPEAKER_01: This is somebody who was inside the CDC, right?
27:10
SPEAKER_01: These are things that you and I have said for years that us and other people have been censored for, bashed because we said it.
27:18
SPEAKER_01: These are insiders coming out and now saying all three of the principal health agencies are under capture.
27:26
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
27:26
SPEAKER_01: They all get money from the industries.
27:30
SPEAKER_01: And so can we trust them?
27:32
SPEAKER_01: In my opinion, no.
27:33
SPEAKER_01: We've gone over this many times uh in this program.
27:37
SPEAKER_01: There's an invested interest in there, so there's going to be bias.
27:41
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
27:42
SPEAKER_01: So to your point, you can't just um go to one of these three health agencies and try to revamp it.
27:50
SPEAKER_01: And then you got the other two that are still under capture.
27:52
SPEAKER_01: Like you're you're not going to be, these organizations are so big, they're so overgrown now.
27:58
SPEAKER_01: I don't know how you would actually tingle out all of the web of capture that has happened within each of these agencies.
28:07
SPEAKER_01: I don't actually see that that's possible.
28:10
SPEAKER_01: And if you do this on a federal level and your focus is on the federal level, once a new administration gets in that doesn't agree with it, they can flip it back.
28:21
SPEAKER_01: Right?
28:22
SPEAKER_01: Sure.
28:22
SPEAKER_01: So, and and so it's causing, like you've previously said, it's causing chaos and fighting amongst civilians, right?
28:31
SPEAKER_01: All of us citizens, right, across the country, because we're trying to get one program that everybody agrees with.
28:38
SPEAKER_01: And inherently you're going to end up with more conflict in that.
28:42
SPEAKER_01: You have more people trying to come up with one agreed upon approach.
28:46
SPEAKER_01: If you've started to just bring it down to returning the power to the states, right?
28:51
SPEAKER_01: Where you've talked about this before, these are the these are this is where the power of these things was meant to be.
28:58
SPEAKER_01: It wasn't meant to be on the federal level.
29:00
SPEAKER_01: The FDA, you know, all these are supposed to be on the state level.
29:04
SPEAKER_01: If you started to just let's focus on maybe not even changing, you know, what's happening in those um federal agencies, let's instead start taking some of these rules and regulations and saying, you know what, this is actually a state issue.
29:19
SPEAKER_01: Let's hand it back to the state.
29:21
SPEAKER_01: And let's that's one big step that we could they could do now, right?
29:26
SPEAKER_01: Instead of trying to gut something that's so huge, I don't know how they would actually do that, you know, and get it all out.
29:32
SPEAKER_01: Uh so just start by simple steps.
29:35
SPEAKER_01: Give this back to the state and let the people vote in the state.
29:38
SPEAKER_01: And then it brings it so that you and I have more influence over what's happening in our state.
29:43
SPEAKER_01: We are more, we will be more engaged, right?
29:47
SPEAKER_01: Because we have more ability to make a change in where we live right now.
29:52
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
29:54
SPEAKER_00: As you localize issues, and I'm including state as part of the localization idea, as you localize issues, you you inherently, I mean, it's a political axiom that people are way more um involved and engaged in local issues or closer to them than stuff that's far away.
30:14
SPEAKER_00: So so from a from a naivety standpoint, and I'm just gonna say that that that that these guys that just think they can, you know, um uh RFK says, well, I know who the good good bureaucrats are and the bad bureaucrats, I'm gonna put the good ones in.
30:30
SPEAKER_00: Um yeah, uh to me that's naive.
30:33
SPEAKER_00: So here my my question is, is it more naive?
30:38
SPEAKER_00: Is it more more naive to think that we can change these federal agencies?
30:48
SPEAKER_00: Is that more naive than what I've been accused of?
30:54
SPEAKER_00: It's naive to think that we could eliminate them.
30:57
SPEAKER_00: And and and I I I would suggest it's just as naive to say we can we can change the spots on the tiger than it is let's kill the tiger.
31:07
SPEAKER_01: So since I've not really thought this through, because you're just asking me now on the spot, my initial gut reaction is that both stances are somewhat equally naive.
31:22
SPEAKER_01: That it definitely, I don't think that we will get to the point where the federal agencies are abolished, right?
31:32
SPEAKER_01: Equally likely, though, I don't think you can get to a point where you can change in any meaningful, lasting way the direction that they're already going.
31:43
SPEAKER_01: You can certainly have little wins here and there, like a lowercase W win here and there.
31:50
SPEAKER_01: But like I said, it's the bureaucracy is so big and they're not accountable to us, it it will flip with whatever administration is in power, right?
31:59
SPEAKER_01: Um, and and I mean we can go on and on about that, but there's political ramifications for even governors to back things, you know, businesses leaving their state, and then they lose votes because money and jobs left the state.
32:12
SPEAKER_01: Like, you know, there's a lot of different ties and hands being tied based on this system.
32:19
SPEAKER_01: I think that what is what is maybe less naive is kind of a middle ground to think that the federal agencies will stay, but if you can get somebody in there that can um you really need Congress to pass the law that says, you know, like we're following the constitution, we're bringing these things back to the state.
32:43
SPEAKER_01: Like, you know what I mean?
32:44
SPEAKER_01: And maybe it has to go to the court for them to interpret the original law.
32:48
SPEAKER_01: I'm not sure.
32:49
SPEAKER_01: I'm not a constitutional attorney, but to answer your question, I think they're both equally uh for the most part equally naive, one maybe five percent more naive than the other.
32:58
SPEAKER_01: But I think that what is possible is to keep the federal agencies and then start draining the power from those federal agencies back to the state.
33:10
SPEAKER_01: I think it would take time.
33:12
SPEAKER_01: Oh, go ahead.
33:13
SPEAKER_00: All right, so how do you drain the power fastest?
33:15
SPEAKER_00: And on we're almost out of time.
33:17
SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna I'm I'm I'm gonna clue I'm gonna conclude uh or do my uh part with this.
33:23
SPEAKER_00: So, so always looking for a freedom solution.
33:28
SPEAKER_00: What is a freedom solution?
33:30
SPEAKER_00: So the the one the one that I find the greatest freedom solution is Congressman Thomas Massey's constitutional amendment, which is, and I will read it off my wall here, the right of the people, the right of the people to grow food and to purchase food from the source of their choice shall not be infringed.
33:55
SPEAKER_00: And Congress law regulating the production and distribution of food products which do not move across state lumps.
34:08
SPEAKER_01: Oh, I love that.
34:09
SPEAKER_01: He's giving it back to the state.
34:11
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
34:12
SPEAKER_00: Well, he he's what he's doing, he's giving, yeah, he's giving it back to the states, and he's giving standing to you and I to find the food of our choice and purchase it.
34:25
SPEAKER_00: See, right now, right now, if if a bureaucrat says, no, you can't have you can't buy raw milk, we we have no standing, like you do if if a if a bureaucrat said you can't you can't meet in this building, or you can't, or you I mean, that's what's driving all the suits about censorship, the churches that didn't meet in COVID, all this sort of thing, was you have to have legal stand, and I'm using a legal term here, legal standing in order to in order to find redress.
34:59
SPEAKER_00: If you haven't been harmed, you have no legal standing to find redress.
35:06
SPEAKER_00: Okay?
35:08
SPEAKER_00: And so what this constitution, so right now Americans do not have a right to food choice.
35:14
SPEAKER_00: We don't.
35:15
SPEAKER_00: And numerous judges have ruled that from the bench and people's mouths drop.
35:20
SPEAKER_00: What?
35:20
SPEAKER_00: You mean no, you don't have the right to food choice.
35:24
SPEAKER_00: And and and so and so what this constitutional amendment would do is give you standing.
35:30
SPEAKER_00: If a bureaucrat says, says, no, you can't buy neighbor Jim's homemade bologna, you can sue and say, no, I have a right to get the food of my choice.
35:42
SPEAKER_00: And and um and and what what that amendment does is it is it creates is it creates an avenue of circumvention.
35:53
SPEAKER_00: And that's what I'm about.
35:56
SPEAKER_00: Um in other words, it creates an um a legal, a legal opportunity for for building a parallel universe.
36:05
SPEAKER_00: It doesn't dismantle what is.
36:07
SPEAKER_00: Here's the beauty of this.
36:09
SPEAKER_00: It doesn't dismantle what you know.
36:11
SPEAKER_00: It says, hey, you guys want to play this game, you go ahead and play that game.
36:14
SPEAKER_00: That's fine, okay?
36:16
SPEAKER_00: But but you know what?
36:17
SPEAKER_00: We want to play a different game.
36:20
SPEAKER_00: We want to play a different game over here, and you just go ahead and play your game.
36:24
SPEAKER_00: We're gonna play this game, and we're not gonna try to shut you down, we're not gonna pick at you, we're not gonna write nasty letters, we're not gonna sue you.
36:32
SPEAKER_00: All we ask is, all we demand is let's play our game over here.
36:39
SPEAKER_00: And if that happened, Cena, there would be an explosion of entrepreneurial neighbor-to-neighbor food actions in this country that would absolutely in my perfect world, it would completely collapse the food system that we have.
36:58
SPEAKER_00: But even if it didn't, it would be uh a wonderful uh um alternative opportunity for all of us to patronize, to fund, to fund an alternative food system, and and and it makes all this other stuff, you know, the the processing plants going out of business that we did in one of the other podcasts, it it makes all of this hocus pocus uh in the in the the government, it makes all that game irrelevant, irrelevant to those of us who say, as for me and my house, we will serve a different system.
37:46
SPEAKER_00: And and and to and to me that that's the direction I want to go.
37:51
SPEAKER_00: I I'm tired of fighting all that, trying to figure out can we can we can we reform this agency?
38:00
SPEAKER_00: Can we reform this agency head?
38:03
SPEAKER_00: Can we get the farm the lobbyists out of it?
38:06
SPEAKER_00: I'm I'm that that fight is just it just seems insurmountable to me.
38:11
SPEAKER_00: But it doesn't seem insurmountable to present to the to present to people if if I want to play football in a in a backyard with a with a with a round ball instead of an oblong ball and make our own rules and have our own goalposts, we should be able to play our own football game the way we want to do it.
38:35
SPEAKER_00: That to me can resonate with people because it's a solution, it's a solution that's that uses a platform of liberty rather than a platform of creating one coercion for another coercion.
38:54
SPEAKER_01: I agree a hundred percent.
38:55
SPEAKER_01: Like I love that direction that you're going, and I'll just so my my take home is basically reiterating what you said that for me, you can't change somebody who doesn't want to be changed, right?
39:13
SPEAKER_01: We all know that.
39:14
SPEAKER_01: You can't, yeah, you can't help someone who doesn't want to be helped, right?
39:17
SPEAKER_01: This is the mentality of the agencies, right?
39:21
SPEAKER_01: So there they're the best case scenario, Trump and RFK Jr.
39:25
SPEAKER_01: will go in there by force, right?
39:27
SPEAKER_01: Force them to change.
39:28
SPEAKER_01: How long does it last when you force somebody to change?
39:32
SPEAKER_01: Right?
39:32
SPEAKER_01: And and this is these agencies are huge, like huge monsters with all these intertwining tentacles around them, right?
39:41
SPEAKER_01: You you can't force that.
39:43
SPEAKER_01: It's going to come back.
39:44
SPEAKER_01: One way or another, the monster will come back, you know?
39:48
SPEAKER_01: And so so I agree with you 100%.
39:50
SPEAKER_01: It would be great if we took Massey's amendment and had one for every area.
39:56
SPEAKER_01: So there's the amendment for your food freedom.
39:58
SPEAKER_01: Have one for your amendment for your medical choice, your health freedom.
40:02
SPEAKER_01: Have one for your uh amendment for your uh educating your children choice freedom, like you know, and on and so forth, so that every aspect of our lives becomes covered with a blanket of liberty that defends us as we create this parallel society.
40:21
SPEAKER_01: It goes back to what I said in the beginning of this podcast.
40:24
SPEAKER_01: And I said, I don't know if this is where you're going, but we have to create a parallel society, right?
40:29
SPEAKER_01: It has to be parallel to it because we all have been in a situation where we we are trying to help someone, right?
40:37
SPEAKER_01: And and to help them, you're trying to change them, and it just doesn't work.
40:43
SPEAKER_01: You can't change somebody who doesn't want to be changed.
40:46
SPEAKER_01: This monster doesn't want to be changed, so right, let's not waste our energy or any more of our money.
40:55
SPEAKER_01: Let's shift gears and do something that we can control.
40:59
SPEAKER_01: And one of the best spaces to be in is a creative space.
41:04
SPEAKER_01: If you're in the space of trying to control somebody, changing something is controlling it.
41:09
SPEAKER_01: If you're in that space, that is a low vibrational space to be in, it's a negative space to be in.
41:15
SPEAKER_01: You're always in a space of lack because you're trying to change something that's never going to get to the space or the place that you think is good enough, right?
41:25
SPEAKER_01: Because it's not what you would have created.
41:27
SPEAKER_01: You will always come from a place of scarcity, of lack.
41:30
SPEAKER_01: It will never be good enough.
41:31
SPEAKER_01: You'll always want more change, just like that um pediatrician in California that you said, oh, even though this is so great that for the first time national candidates are talking about food and health, which is what we want, right?
41:45
SPEAKER_01: We need them to bring awareness.
41:47
SPEAKER_01: And they, I praise them for that.
41:49
SPEAKER_01: First time they're doing that, right?
41:51
SPEAKER_01: Already you have somebody piggybacking on that saying, oh, they don't go far enough.
41:55
SPEAKER_01: You see, it will never be enough.
41:57
SPEAKER_01: So leave that system alone and instead use our positive energy of creativity, right?
42:05
SPEAKER_01: Think outside the box and see what we can come up with based on not fear, like the original FDA NEPA was created out of fear, right?
42:16
SPEAKER_01: Instead, create that based on gratitude, joy, uh, actual clear vision of what we would love to have to prosper and to thrive in this environment that we have complete control over, if you think about it, to be able to manifest whatever or create uh whatever reality we want to create.
42:38
SPEAKER_01: So don't live in fear, right?
42:41
SPEAKER_01: Let it go.
42:42
SPEAKER_01: Let those agencies go.
42:44
SPEAKER_01: Stop trying to control them, stop trying to live in this space of feeling inadequate and afraid.
42:51
SPEAKER_01: Instead, let's turn our attention to creating something that's even better, freedom-loving, and positive for us that will actually create joy, gratitude, and along with it, health.
43:05
SPEAKER_01: Right?
43:06
SPEAKER_01: That's how you create, that's how you make America healthy again, right?
43:09
SPEAKER_01: Give us our freedoms back.
43:11
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's exactly right.
43:12
SPEAKER_00: That's exactly right.
43:13
SPEAKER_00: Just eliminate the uh the the federal intervention.
43:17
SPEAKER_00: So we're out of time, Cena.
43:18
SPEAKER_00: So here's my question.
43:19
SPEAKER_00: Here's my question.
43:21
SPEAKER_00: My question is if this amendment were put in to where you could actually have fettered uh uh food transactions between you and your neighbor, what would be the first thing that you would like to produce to sell to your neighbors, or what would be the first thing you would like to buy from your neighbors?
43:43
SPEAKER_00: So so if if you had complete freedom to interact with food commerce in your neighborhood, what would be the first thing you would like to produce, or what would be the first thing you would like to buy?
43:55
SPEAKER_00: If you had complete freedom to be able to interact uh food commerce in your neighborhood?
44:01
SPEAKER_00: Ponder that, let us know.
44:03
SPEAKER_00: We'd love to hear your answer.
44:05
SPEAKER_00: Cena, always great to to fellowship with you on this.
44:08
SPEAKER_00: It's great to be able to be with our folks, and so just a little shameless plug here.
44:14
SPEAKER_00: If you like this banter, if you like this kind of interchange, these fucking ideas, tell your friends.
44:23
SPEAKER_00: And um, and and we'd love to to get to a million viewers uh so that we can actually become influencers.
44:32
SPEAKER_00: So thank you for listening, and we look forward to visiting with you again next week.