Latest / The DEX Show: A Show for IT Change Makers / AI, IT and HR: Strategy, Risks, and the Future of Work 🤝 (w/ Ben Eubanks)

Transcript

AI, IT and HR: Strategy, Risks, and the Future of Work 🤝 (w/ Ben Eubanks) · The DEX Show: A Show for IT Change Makers

• 0:01
  Speaker 1: Welcome it. Change Makers to the Deck Show with Tim
• 0:05
  Speaker 1: Flower and Tom McGraw. Let's get into it.
• 0:09
  Speaker 2: And then change Makers. Tim and I are back together
• 0:12
  Speaker 2: on the show once again.
• 0:14
  Speaker 3: How you doing, Tim, I'm good time. Yeah, we're just
• 0:16
  Speaker 3: catching up a little bit on some some PTO time
• 0:19
  Speaker 3: we each had. And uh, it's a we're recording this
• 0:21
  Speaker 3: on a Monday, so back in the saddle, so it's
• 0:23
  Speaker 3: good to good to reconnect with.
• 0:25
  Speaker 2: The I'm recording this from from Ireland. I keep I
• 0:29
  Speaker 2: kept calling it. I learned for ages. If everyone is like,
• 0:32
  Speaker 2: which island do you go into?
• 0:33
  Speaker 4: Okay, Ireland, You've got to add the extra hottle syllable
• 0:37
  Speaker 4: in the middle, And I got it. I got into
• 0:40
  Speaker 4: a shout at Tim to friend of the show Sarah, Yeah,
• 0:43
  Speaker 4: I saw who you know who has facilitated many wonderful
• 0:48
  Speaker 4: guests that we've had on the show.
• 0:49
  Speaker 2: And and I know he's a listener because every now
• 0:51
  Speaker 2: and then she says, I like the episode you just did,
• 0:54
  Speaker 2: and so hopefully she's listening to this song becase we've
• 0:56
  Speaker 2: got to congratulate her on her on her wonderful wedding
• 0:59
  Speaker 2: in West Cork. Beautiful occasion, a beautiful hotel, beautiful, beautiful
• 1:04
  Speaker 2: landscape and beautiful weather, which is anyone who's been to
• 1:07
  Speaker 2: Westcourt knows is not is not a so bing shout
• 1:12
  Speaker 2: out to uh and and Mark her her husband. So
• 1:17
  Speaker 2: today onto our guest, him, onto our guest. We're joined
• 1:20
  Speaker 2: by someone who's been the forefront of exploring how AI
• 1:24
  Speaker 2: is reshaping the world of work, which is something we
• 1:26
  Speaker 2: do here quite often, of course, but this gentleman, Ben Ubanks.
• 1:30
  Speaker 4: He does it from a perspective of HR. So very
• 1:34
  Speaker 4: very excited to talk to him. Ben is the chief
• 1:36
  Speaker 4: research officer at Lighthouse Research and Advisory and a decorated
• 1:42
  Speaker 4: and celebrated author and podcaster and public speaker.
• 1:46
  Speaker 2: And we're just excited to talk to you. Ben. How
• 1:47
  Speaker 2: are you doing today?
• 1:48
  Speaker 5: I'm doing really well, Tom, glad to be here. And
• 1:50
  Speaker 5: if you ask me how we sit here in the
• 1:52
  Speaker 5: Southern US, it's Ireland, so that would have been really
• 1:55
  Speaker 5: easy bout dellan nun.
• 1:58
  Speaker 2: But what if it's an island is what are you corral?
• 2:01
  Speaker 3: Maybe?
• 2:02
  Speaker 2: Oh, it doesn't matter.
• 2:03
  Speaker 4: Let's move on, listener, Shalli already well, look Ben, so
• 2:08
  Speaker 4: excited to talk to you, big big fan of your work.
• 2:10
  Speaker 4: You bring a very very fresh perspective to something we
• 2:12
  Speaker 4: spend a lot of time thinking about and talking about
• 2:14
  Speaker 4: here here on the deck show.
• 2:17
  Speaker 2: Hey, look, it's it's obvious to say he like in it.
• 2:20
  Speaker 4: Like anything, AI is going to have a like in it. Specifically, rather,
• 2:25
  Speaker 4: AI is going to have a dual impact on HR
• 2:29
  Speaker 4: because onmber one hand, it's going to change how HR
• 2:31
  Speaker 4: carries out its own work. On the other hand, it
• 2:33
  Speaker 4: has to reshape HR's outward facing role.
• 2:36
  Speaker 2: In the business. Right, it's going to influence HR's own
• 2:38
  Speaker 2: strategy at the very highest level. Could you maybe update
• 2:42
  Speaker 2: our audience, who isn't your typical HR audience on what's
• 2:45
  Speaker 2: most significant in these different dimensions of change.
• 2:49
  Speaker 5: The very first three words you said there in that question,
• 2:51
  Speaker 5: I think, will you tell it? It's like in it?
• 2:53
  Speaker 3: Right?
• 2:54
  Speaker 5: It work is divided to between these very compliance focused,
• 2:58
  Speaker 5: very pros like checklist sorts of things and other things
• 3:02
  Speaker 5: where that are high level strategy and impact and what
• 3:05
  Speaker 5: does this mean and unlock for us in terms of
• 3:07
  Speaker 5: opportunity and so for me, the perspective is HR is
• 3:11
  Speaker 5: divided the same way. We have this compliance piece, this
• 3:13
  Speaker 5: checklist piece, checking it off, just moving along the list.
• 3:16
  Speaker 5: We also have the strategy side of it. I was
• 3:18
  Speaker 5: talking to a leader of people analytics for a large
• 3:21
  Speaker 5: bank recently and he was telling me he's getting pressured
• 3:23
  Speaker 5: to adopt AI. And he said, they're telling me to
• 3:25
  Speaker 5: do it around our employee service delivery and how people
• 3:28
  Speaker 5: answer questions like, yeah, there's there's some good stuff there.
• 3:31
  Speaker 5: There's also opt curuity here on the strategy side, where
• 3:34
  Speaker 5: you can answer questions about how we can grow our talent,
• 3:37
  Speaker 5: how we can meet that business objective, how we can
• 3:39
  Speaker 5: meet this need. And so there's this sort of fibrication
• 3:43
  Speaker 5: there between the two different lenses of how that goes,
• 3:46
  Speaker 5: and I think it's not too similar from how I
• 3:48
  Speaker 5: teas thees that but doing the compliance things well may
• 3:53
  Speaker 5: get you little applause, But unlocking the strategy and opportunity
• 3:56
  Speaker 5: is where the real competitive advantage comes from for employers.
• 4:01
  Speaker 2: When when you think about previous ways of digital transformation
• 4:04
  Speaker 2: that you've witnessed and thought about and analyzed and how
• 4:08
  Speaker 2: they affected HR strategically, what lessons, first of all, do
• 4:12
  Speaker 2: you feel do apply to this coming way AI driven
• 4:16
  Speaker 2: digital transformation And where exactly do you think the lessons
• 4:19
  Speaker 2: of the past will short in which ways do you see,
• 4:22
  Speaker 2: a AI transformation is something that's truly uncharted and if
• 4:26
  Speaker 2: you will, unprecedented, if at all, if.
• 4:29
  Speaker 5: At all, oh my goodness, at all, it might they not.
• 4:32
  Speaker 5: So there's this a I think you might have heard of. No,
• 4:35
  Speaker 5: so I'll start with this. So when I was writing
• 4:38
  Speaker 5: the book Artificial Intelligence for HR and the second edition
• 4:41
  Speaker 5: and the third edition, I kept going back to the research.
• 4:44
  Speaker 5: I could find anything old or new that highlighted what
• 4:47
  Speaker 5: happens to work when this evolution comes through and automation
• 4:51
  Speaker 5: strips away things. And again, hundreds of years ago, mechanical
• 4:54
  Speaker 5: automation suddenly farming is easier. Great, okay, But today it's
• 4:58
  Speaker 5: digital automation. It's changing the work that we do, taking
• 5:00
  Speaker 5: pieces out that we had to do manually before. It
• 5:03
  Speaker 5: makes it easier for us. That automation compartment there is great.
• 5:06
  Speaker 5: That's been a thing for a long time. AI changes
• 5:09
  Speaker 5: that because it's not just about automation that we've done,
• 5:12
  Speaker 5: but it's about accelerating things, augmenting things, adapting work itself.
• 5:16
  Speaker 5: We are having to redefine how work it's done because
• 5:18
  Speaker 5: some things no longer have to be done by human
• 5:21
  Speaker 5: and in some cases we're all just thank goodness my
• 5:24
  Speaker 5: feet of urest for a moment. But in other cases
• 5:26
  Speaker 5: we're saying, now, what does this make possible? What can
• 5:28
  Speaker 5: I do now that I couldn't do before because I
• 5:30
  Speaker 5: was too busy just churn it away at these other
• 5:33
  Speaker 5: tasks and things. And I think that's the real opportunity
• 5:35
  Speaker 5: that we have now in front of us, is to
• 5:37
  Speaker 5: rethink that and what's possible. I think that's the big thing.
• 5:40
  Speaker 5: It's not just about doing other stuff faster, but giving
• 5:43
  Speaker 5: us new things we can do that in the past
• 5:45
  Speaker 5: we're just beyond our reach.
• 5:48
  Speaker 3: And so Ben, I'll add my excitement to having on
• 5:50
  Speaker 3: the show. We've talked about this linkage between HR and
• 5:54
  Speaker 3: IT for a while, and having you here to share
• 5:56
  Speaker 3: some of your research and the lessons out of your books,
• 5:59
  Speaker 3: I think is going to be real big for the audience.
• 6:01
  Speaker 3: So welcome. You know, we've known for years now that
• 6:06
  Speaker 3: AI holds this tremendous promise for all sorts of enterprises.
• 6:11
  Speaker 3: But what do you see are the biggest risks with
• 6:14
  Speaker 3: AI in the workplace, both in terms of culture. So
• 6:16
  Speaker 3: I'll lay out a couple here and get my thoughts out.
• 6:20
  Speaker 3: There's this tremendous promise, but there are also angles where
• 6:24
  Speaker 3: it can be demonized. How dare you use AI to
• 6:26
  Speaker 3: create your content? And there's actually AI to detect whether
• 6:30
  Speaker 3: or not you used AI, And now there's AI to
• 6:33
  Speaker 3: make my AI production more human, so you can't detect it. Right,
• 6:37
  Speaker 3: this this back and forth swing on whether it's good
• 6:39
  Speaker 3: or whether it's bad. And we're also starting I'm starting
• 6:43
  Speaker 3: to sense some of this internal HR kind of responsibility
• 6:48
  Speaker 3: to manage the human competition in an enterprise. So what
• 6:53
  Speaker 3: role does HR play in anticipating and managing and hopefully
• 6:59
  Speaker 3: mitigating some of these back and forth plays in their
• 7:03
  Speaker 3: own enterprise.
• 7:05
  Speaker 5: Well, if I could snap my fingers and every organization
• 7:09
  Speaker 5: had access to the same AI tools, the only differentiator
• 7:11
  Speaker 5: would be in your talent, your people, what they can do,
• 7:14
  Speaker 5: what they know, and how they do it. I think
• 7:16
  Speaker 5: that's the real thing. And so there are some very
• 7:19
  Speaker 5: real risks that are there. Everybody wanted to start out
• 7:22
  Speaker 5: with with bias and all the pieces of that, And
• 7:25
  Speaker 5: to me, like, what's interesting is, yes, AI could be
• 7:29
  Speaker 5: biased if it's programmed the way if it's the data
• 7:31
  Speaker 5: is trained on or or biased. Yes, but also I
• 7:33
  Speaker 5: can actually audit that I can't audit that manager in
• 7:36
  Speaker 5: my business who was always saying, you know what, I
• 7:38
  Speaker 5: really i'd like to you, I just can't hire a
• 7:40
  Speaker 5: woman for my team. I just can't you. They can't
• 7:42
  Speaker 5: cut it, And I can't audit that manager has something
• 7:45
  Speaker 5: going on in his head that's, you know, shutting that down.
• 7:48
  Speaker 5: I don't know AI. I can audit and say, hey, look,
• 7:50
  Speaker 5: it's looking at these indicators. It's turning them down because
• 7:52
  Speaker 5: they're women. We can fix that and change that. So
• 7:55
  Speaker 5: I think that's the bias piece. Yes, it's a risk,
• 7:58
  Speaker 5: but it's also auditible and changeable in a way that
• 8:01
  Speaker 5: it's not possible with humans. So for me, that's a risk,
• 8:04
  Speaker 5: but not the full stop, nothing goes forward. We all
• 8:07
  Speaker 5: have to be pulling our hairt and screaming and running
• 8:09
  Speaker 5: in circles kind of risk. The other one that gets
• 8:12
  Speaker 5: me though, the one that's come out more recently. There
• 8:14
  Speaker 5: was a study by the University of Toronto while back,
• 8:16
  Speaker 5: and they looked at humans who were using large language
• 8:19
  Speaker 5: models to do their work and to do some creative tasks,
• 8:22
  Speaker 5: and they gave them an actual assessment, not just some
• 8:24
  Speaker 5: questions how do you feel your opinion, but an actual
• 8:27
  Speaker 5: assessment of creativity, and the people who used large language
• 8:31
  Speaker 5: models CHAGUPT and others to do their work, their creativity
• 8:35
  Speaker 5: was lower than people who did not. And the part
• 8:37
  Speaker 5: that's most scary isn't that, it's that when they brought
• 8:40
  Speaker 5: them back a little bit later to test them again,
• 8:43
  Speaker 5: nobody got to use it this time. And that second
• 8:45
  Speaker 5: group who would use tativity, they were still less creative.
• 8:49
  Speaker 5: Their ideas were very narrow, very streamlined, very homogeneous, as
• 8:52
  Speaker 5: the term they use where they all start to sound
• 8:54
  Speaker 5: the same. But the brainstorming and the creativity from the
• 8:56
  Speaker 5: other group that had not done that, it was it
• 8:58
  Speaker 5: was broader, more novel ideas. More creativity was actually show
• 9:02
  Speaker 5: im proven in the research. So to me, that's the
• 9:04
  Speaker 5: part that gets me is humans picked the path of
• 9:07
  Speaker 5: least resistance. Our brains are wired to be lazy and
• 9:10
  Speaker 5: at the same time going that shortcut route for all
• 9:13
  Speaker 5: of our brainstorming, all of our creative thinking, not just
• 9:16
  Speaker 5: automating the simple tasks. When we start doing the higher
• 9:19
  Speaker 5: order tasks and using it to outsource our thinking, that's
• 9:22
  Speaker 5: going to start hurting us long term. And that's the
• 9:24
  Speaker 5: risk that I'm most concerned with because human behavior is
• 9:27
  Speaker 5: hard to change guys. It's really hard to change people,
• 9:30
  Speaker 5: and we're wired to take that easy path. So the
• 9:34
  Speaker 5: thing we're gonna have to do is very carefully, very
• 9:36
  Speaker 5: very intelligently put some limits around when and where those
• 9:39
  Speaker 5: are used, and determine which types of work can be
• 9:42
  Speaker 5: done that way in which we need to stay away
• 9:44
  Speaker 5: from because the short term win is not worth a
• 9:47
  Speaker 5: long term loss.
• 9:49
  Speaker 3: It's really interesting research. I'm gonna I'll chat with you.
• 9:51
  Speaker 3: Maybe we can put in the speaker notes where folks
• 9:54
  Speaker 3: can get that research. Because as a semi creative person myself,
• 10:00
  Speaker 3: I feel like my creative ideas are actually augmented by
• 10:05
  Speaker 3: some AI collaboration. Right, it's and maybe this is maybe
• 10:09
  Speaker 3: this is collaboration with people versus creative collaboration with AI,
• 10:12
  Speaker 3: but it's it's a curious take. I do a lot
• 10:15
  Speaker 3: of my creative ideas I feel have have really taken
• 10:19
  Speaker 3: off with some of that, with some of that AI
• 10:24
  Speaker 3: back and forth. But I'll ruminate on that a little
• 10:27
  Speaker 3: bit more. But there's strong opinions on both sides even
• 10:30
  Speaker 3: to take this and step further that some of this
• 10:32
  Speaker 3: AI capability is actually going to take jobs, and if
• 10:35
  Speaker 3: those jobs become more siloed, less creative. It's an interesting
• 10:44
  Speaker 3: it's an interesting implication. But we're also at this kind
• 10:48
  Speaker 3: of we're the middle of also some talent scarcity right
• 10:52
  Speaker 3: in many areas that the there's there's an inability to
• 10:58
  Speaker 3: find the right people with the right talents. I'm curious
• 11:00
  Speaker 3: how you reconcile those two conundrums, right the it's going
• 11:04
  Speaker 3: to take my job, but we're gonna, uh, we don't
• 11:08
  Speaker 3: have the right talent to actually run AI models. How
• 11:11
  Speaker 3: do you reconcile and see those two things converging in
• 11:14
  Speaker 3: the future.
• 11:16
  Speaker 5: The first thing I think of is there was a
• 11:18
  Speaker 5: study to my key research. I mean, maybe it's probably
• 11:22
  Speaker 5: not ten years ago, but it's it's been a while
• 11:24
  Speaker 5: now since the early days of AI being a conversation
• 11:26
  Speaker 5: and just in public. And they surveyed American workers said, hey,
• 11:32
  Speaker 5: how do you think that AI is going to change
• 11:34
  Speaker 5: work and change jobs? And it was something like, you know,
• 11:36
  Speaker 5: three quarters them said yes. I said, how many of
• 11:39
  Speaker 5: you think it's going to change your job? And you're
• 11:40
  Speaker 5: like no, no. Generally, you know, people are like, no,
• 11:44
  Speaker 5: it won't change my job, it's going to change everybody else's.
• 11:46
  Speaker 5: And so our brains have this like hardwired defense mechanism
• 11:49
  Speaker 5: and says, well, this is risky and scary, and look
• 11:51
  Speaker 5: at our horizon. I'll probably be okay because my I know,
• 11:54
  Speaker 5: my work is too creative for that. So that's that's
• 11:57
  Speaker 5: the first place my mind goes. So in in the
• 12:00
  Speaker 5: book I wrote Talent scarcity, it really looks at the
• 12:04
  Speaker 5: reasons that it's hard to find good quality of people.
• 12:06
  Speaker 5: You mentioned in some field, some professions. The lack of
• 12:09
  Speaker 5: skills there is very real. So a couple of different
• 12:11
  Speaker 5: thing we're trying to unpack this big question. Number one,
• 12:14
  Speaker 5: AI is taking tasks, not jobs right now, that's what's happening.
• 12:19
  Speaker 5: So someone if you have a marketing team and you
• 12:22
  Speaker 5: had a content person that was doing that as part
• 12:25
  Speaker 5: of their tasks. Some of the content things they were doing,
• 12:27
  Speaker 5: we can now do like that staff of a finger
• 12:30
  Speaker 5: with AI, and that person's tasks they were doing all
• 12:33
  Speaker 5: around that writing, creating, editing, researching, Those pieces of their
• 12:37
  Speaker 5: job go away. Now does a company get rid of
• 12:39
  Speaker 5: that person entirely and offload the rest of their work
• 12:41
  Speaker 5: to other people maybe, or do they somehow streamline that
• 12:44
  Speaker 5: job and change it. It depends on the company. Depends
• 12:47
  Speaker 5: on the culture of the budget, all the things. But
• 12:49
  Speaker 5: that's what's really happening. The task's not the job now,
• 12:51
  Speaker 5: that piece of it. Let's set that aside for a second.
• 12:54
  Speaker 5: One of the things that concerns me again, I'm the
• 12:57
  Speaker 5: HR nerd. I'm a data nerd. In most rooms, I
• 12:59
  Speaker 5: was almost an e commomy and decided to go to
• 13:01
  Speaker 5: HR instead. Still a study of human behavior every day.
• 13:04
  Speaker 5: And one of the things that I wrote about in
• 13:06
  Speaker 5: the book is there's this demographic cliff that's out there,
• 13:09
  Speaker 5: and if anyone has heard some of the stories around this,
• 13:12
  Speaker 5: they're pretty much all true. Every developed nation in the
• 13:14
  Speaker 5: world has a birth rate that's below replacement rates, so
• 13:19
  Speaker 5: they are steadily going to be shrinking. And we see
• 13:21
  Speaker 5: this in some countries that are very far down this path,
• 13:23
  Speaker 5: like Japan, where they don't have enough working people to
• 13:27
  Speaker 5: pay for the social security to take care of the
• 13:29
  Speaker 5: people who are already at retirement age, and that sort
• 13:32
  Speaker 5: of social structure breakdown is again lots of fun reading
• 13:36
  Speaker 5: on the weekends, but it gives you this idea of like,
• 13:39
  Speaker 5: there's a lot of fear there. There was a one
• 13:43
  Speaker 5: of the Russian Ministers of Work of labor a few
• 13:46
  Speaker 5: years ago was on the news saying, hey, when you
• 13:48
  Speaker 5: get a break from work, go pro create. That was
• 13:50
  Speaker 5: there on the news are saying this because they're trying
• 13:52
  Speaker 5: to make sure their citizens are creating enough people, because
• 13:54
  Speaker 5: they're worried about that. We're losing people to retirement every day,
• 13:57
  Speaker 5: so it's stretching the workforce, and so that's a real problem.
• 14:02
  Speaker 5: In the book, I talked about how AI, automation, robotics,
• 14:05
  Speaker 5: those sorts of things give us a way to potentially
• 14:07
  Speaker 5: close that gap in some way. But there's a problem
• 14:10
  Speaker 5: with that. When we look at the job growth in
• 14:12
  Speaker 5: the last few quarters. The jobs that are actually out
• 14:15
  Speaker 5: there are standing jobs, not sitting jobs, and AI is
• 14:18
  Speaker 5: really well suited to sitting jobs, standing jobs, home health,
• 14:22
  Speaker 5: I need a person there checking on someone in person,
• 14:25
  Speaker 5: making sure they're okay. We're building something in a plant.
• 14:28
  Speaker 5: We have things like retail. AI is not doing those
• 14:32
  Speaker 5: type of jobs that it can't right now. So there
• 14:35
  Speaker 5: could be an opportunity for that down the line, but
• 14:37
  Speaker 5: right now it's really affecting for those sitting jobs and
• 14:41
  Speaker 5: white collar work and not as much of those standing
• 14:43
  Speaker 5: jobs where we're still trying to hire people still trying
• 14:45
  Speaker 5: to bring them in and we still have the shortage.
• 14:47
  Speaker 5: It's a weird sort of labor market issue.
• 14:50
  Speaker 2: It's bad news for us sit as Tim.
• 14:52
  Speaker 5: Yeah, all of us are sitting as well. That's you know,
• 14:56
  Speaker 5: we have a standard or the rest of this.
• 14:57
  Speaker 3: Yeah, can I is it job security if I push
• 15:01
  Speaker 3: my standing best at the top and start standing up
• 15:03
  Speaker 3: for the calls. Yeah. And so a lot of the
• 15:07
  Speaker 3: functions that we talk about here right, therapy, finance, feedback,
• 15:13
  Speaker 3: any consultative work We've talked about in other shows, where
• 15:18
  Speaker 3: knowledge and education are becoming free, so you can find
• 15:22
  Speaker 3: your answers a lot easier. I'm curious, as HR in
• 15:25
  Speaker 3: itself becomes more technical through AI adoption, how do they,
• 15:30
  Speaker 3: as an HR function avoid losing their core purpose keeping
• 15:34
  Speaker 3: people at the center of the strategy. What practices or
• 15:37
  Speaker 3: principles help maintain that balance.
• 15:40
  Speaker 5: So we actually did a piece of research earlier this
• 15:42
  Speaker 5: year and we surveyed almost a thousand different organizations across
• 15:47
  Speaker 5: the globe asking them about their people practices. And I
• 15:51
  Speaker 5: know this is not an HR show, but there's a
• 15:52
  Speaker 5: very good tie into that question where they we asked
• 15:55
  Speaker 5: them what's more important? Is it more important? To be
• 15:57
  Speaker 5: data oriented, really thinking about the numbers, the evidence, the metrics,
• 16:00
  Speaker 5: those things, or is it more important to be people focused.
• 16:04
  Speaker 5: And we found is a company that picked one of
• 16:06
  Speaker 5: those two things versus the catch all you know, the
• 16:10
  Speaker 5: cheat answer, like both are important. If they picked one
• 16:13
  Speaker 5: or the other of those, their results were horror. Their
• 16:17
  Speaker 5: perspective is were more limited, their impact was less. And
• 16:21
  Speaker 5: so those teams that say it's about all the AI
• 16:24
  Speaker 5: is great, let's go do all the things, and we're
• 16:27
  Speaker 5: using that to sacrifice the connection with people. You just
• 16:30
  Speaker 5: to sacrifice the opportunity we have to serve people. Those
• 16:33
  Speaker 5: companies may get again that short term gain and look
• 16:36
  Speaker 5: like they're winning in a long term loss. It reminds
• 16:38
  Speaker 5: me of the Clarna story where they replaced hundreds of
• 16:41
  Speaker 5: their customer service agents with an algorithm with an AI tool.
• 16:44
  Speaker 5: They're like, look at us, We're great, and then a
• 16:46
  Speaker 5: year later like, oh yeah, we need people again. And
• 16:49
  Speaker 5: so they learned the hard way, and we're going to
• 16:51
  Speaker 5: see that pendulum swing too far. I think on the
• 16:53
  Speaker 5: talent side too, and you see that in some cases
• 16:55
  Speaker 5: where hey, this company automated their whole hiring process. There's
• 16:58
  Speaker 5: not a human to be heard or with or connected
• 17:00
  Speaker 5: to during that process, and when you go and you
• 17:03
  Speaker 5: look on Reddit and these other places, people like I
• 17:05
  Speaker 5: will never ever work in this company because that's terrible.
• 17:08
  Speaker 5: That's horrible. I need to connect with the human to
• 17:10
  Speaker 5: know if it's the right job for me. So for me,
• 17:13
  Speaker 5: the philosophical breakdown is do we use the technology to
• 17:16
  Speaker 5: keep people at arm's lengths or do we use the
• 17:18
  Speaker 5: technology to understand more about them so we can serve
• 17:21
  Speaker 5: them more deeply? And for hr people out there who
• 17:23
  Speaker 5: have that heart of service, they care about their teams,
• 17:25
  Speaker 5: I think that's where their strategy is going to lie.
• 17:27
  Speaker 5: Their best opportunity lies is they can now know more
• 17:30
  Speaker 5: about their people, not in the creepy stalker way, but
• 17:33
  Speaker 5: no more about their people, like what do they need
• 17:34
  Speaker 5: from us? How do we serve them better? What unique
• 17:36
  Speaker 5: benefits can we offer to Ben's family because they need
• 17:40
  Speaker 5: this thing right now from us versus Tim's family. They
• 17:42
  Speaker 5: need something different. And that level of understanding and awareness
• 17:45
  Speaker 5: that AI gives us is what's going to set those
• 17:48
  Speaker 5: companies apart that take this in the best positive direction.
• 17:53
  Speaker 3: Just some free thought based on a reaction based on
• 17:57
  Speaker 3: some of the commentary it's not a far stress, which
• 18:00
  Speaker 3: if AI is taking accountability for hiring people, that AI
• 18:04
  Speaker 3: eventually takes accountability for firing people too. Right, we're in this.
• 18:08
  Speaker 3: If we don't get a manage on this soon, we're
• 18:11
  Speaker 3: going to be in a We're going to be in
• 18:12
  Speaker 3: a tough place. And I think there's enough smart people
• 18:15
  Speaker 3: that are seeing it. It's a matter now what do
• 18:17
  Speaker 3: we do? And in that regard, who takes accountability for it? Right?
• 18:23
  Speaker 3: Uh uh? Corporate functions are very easily siloed off. HR
• 18:28
  Speaker 3: only does HR, it does it, procurement does procurement, but
• 18:33
  Speaker 3: the rework the redesign of work that's AI driven. If
• 18:37
  Speaker 3: a business wants to take on those functions like you're
• 18:40
  Speaker 3: talking about of how does it? How do we redesign
• 18:43
  Speaker 3: the hiring function without just turning it all over to AI?
• 18:45
  Speaker 3: How do we use AI to redesign that function? It
• 18:50
  Speaker 3: sits squarely in the middle of it, and HR one
• 18:53
  Speaker 3: silo can't do it alone or without the other. So
• 18:56
  Speaker 3: how do those two functions converge to meet this moment?
• 19:01
  Speaker 5: I think we armed both sides in a deathmatch and
• 19:04
  Speaker 5: let seek standing after we're all done that. This seems
• 19:07
  Speaker 5: likely easiest for that. I think a lot of sharpening
• 19:11
  Speaker 5: my battle acts over here, So I'm ready to I'm
• 19:13
  Speaker 5: ready for it. On said it, it's finally someone knows.
• 19:17
  Speaker 5: So I've always been an advocate that HR and ID
• 19:20
  Speaker 5: stronger ties. So we did a piece of research a
• 19:22
  Speaker 5: couple of years ago now where we surveyed an audience
• 19:25
  Speaker 5: of HR leaders and IT leaders around some technology implementations
• 19:28
  Speaker 5: relevant to HR tech. But to me, the the interesting
• 19:32
  Speaker 5: takeaway overall across the board every respondent when we said
• 19:36
  Speaker 5: is your organization ready for what's next? Are you adaptable?
• 19:39
  Speaker 5: Are you ready for the future. The ones that said yes,
• 19:41
  Speaker 5: we asked them about the technologies and tools are using
• 19:43
  Speaker 5: to manage their people. How big of a role does
• 19:46
  Speaker 5: that play? Ninety seven percent of people said it plays
• 19:51
  Speaker 5: a key role. And then being agile and responsive as
• 19:53
  Speaker 5: an organization. And to me, that blows me away because
• 19:55
  Speaker 5: statistically that never happens. That's like getting one hundred people
• 19:58
  Speaker 5: in a room and saying what shweet for a lot
• 20:00
  Speaker 5: much and ninetie Ever for some people said the same things.
• 20:03
  Speaker 5: That's ridiculous to even saying a load, But that happened
• 20:06
  Speaker 5: in the research, So to me, they gives me strong
• 20:07
  Speaker 5: hope that that's possible. The thing that got me though
• 20:10
  Speaker 5: in the research we started looking at the two different audiences.
• 20:13
  Speaker 5: When we asked about implementations, it generally said, hey, listen,
• 20:18
  Speaker 5: we're here, we're ready, put me in coach. I'm ready
• 20:20
  Speaker 5: to help out whatever you need. We've got this extensive experience,
• 20:23
  Speaker 5: we know what we're doing. Just let us let us help.
• 20:26
  Speaker 5: And HR's general response and that was, we'll call you
• 20:29
  Speaker 5: if we need you. Strangely enough, later on in the survey,
• 20:32
  Speaker 5: HR is much more likely than it to say, we
• 20:34
  Speaker 5: see these problems pop up in implantations, we're not sure
• 20:36
  Speaker 5: how to deal with them, and they were unexpected, and
• 20:39
  Speaker 5: so you're like, you've got a great advisor and expert
• 20:42
  Speaker 5: right here saying let me know we need help, and
• 20:45
  Speaker 5: you ignore them, and then later on you say, man,
• 20:46
  Speaker 5: I wish I would have gotten some help. So I'm
• 20:48
  Speaker 5: hoping those sorts of messages, those are the stories help
• 20:51
  Speaker 5: our friends across the aisle come together, because the opportunity
• 20:55
  Speaker 5: there when we do see this together, you see organizations
• 20:58
  Speaker 5: that are trying to combine those roles, and whether that's
• 21:00
  Speaker 5: a good decision or not, we can we could probably
• 21:02
  Speaker 5: debate that, but I do think the opportunity is there.
• 21:05
  Speaker 5: All Right, one more thing I'll tell you on that,
• 21:08
  Speaker 5: just to give you a picture of how this could be.
• 21:12
  Speaker 5: So a couple of years ago, when everyone was hiring
• 21:14
  Speaker 5: in a frenzy, you couldn't pay people enough money to
• 21:17
  Speaker 5: get them to come to your organization. It was wild.
• 21:19
  Speaker 5: I put together this panel with a compensation leader and
• 21:22
  Speaker 5: a recruiting leader, because in every conversation I was here
• 21:25
  Speaker 5: with recruiting, they're like, comp want adjust the pay rates,
• 21:28
  Speaker 5: and they're they're they're out of their minds. So what
• 21:30
  Speaker 5: do they think they're doing. We're losing good people? And
• 21:33
  Speaker 5: I thought the comp leaders are saying, what is wrong
• 21:36
  Speaker 5: with the people in recruiting. They don't understand we have budgets,
• 21:38
  Speaker 5: we have we have controls, we have to you know,
• 21:40
  Speaker 5: may be fair. They don't know what's going on. And
• 21:42
  Speaker 5: so each of them was sort of saying the same thing.
• 21:45
  Speaker 5: We want to be competitive, we want to be fair,
• 21:46
  Speaker 5: we want to treat people right. But they were both
• 21:48
  Speaker 5: accountble for different things. They both had different objectives in
• 21:51
  Speaker 5: the moment that we're trying to accomplish. But at the
• 21:53
  Speaker 5: end of the day, if I pressed them, they would say,
• 21:55
  Speaker 5: we both want to make sure we're doing the right
• 21:57
  Speaker 5: thing to set us up for success long term and
• 21:59
  Speaker 5: hiring the best peace people, and so the same sort
• 22:02
  Speaker 5: of thing there. If we could adapt that to this,
• 22:05
  Speaker 5: IT leaders and HR leaders saying get together with your
• 22:09
  Speaker 5: own counterpart and your own organization, anyone listen to me
• 22:11
  Speaker 5: right now and talk to them about what they're accountable to,
• 22:14
  Speaker 5: what things they're prioritizing, what they're worried about. Because you
• 22:18
  Speaker 5: would be surprised how often something comes across and there's
• 22:21
  Speaker 5: an overlap where you can step in and support and
• 22:23
  Speaker 5: serve and build a bridge versus building a barrier. That's
• 22:26
  Speaker 5: what I think is the real opportunity for us.
• 22:28
  Speaker 3: So who takes the lead right not just on governance
• 22:31
  Speaker 3: for AI, but all the other operational aspects of this.
• 22:34
  Speaker 3: Does HR report to it or vice versa? Is it
• 22:37
  Speaker 3: cross functional body, is it one leader or organization that
• 22:39
  Speaker 3: owns both. What's the operational the organizational model look like
• 22:44
  Speaker 3: in terms of ownership and leadership. You see some organizations
• 22:49
  Speaker 3: that are actually hiring someone to lead AI in the business,
• 22:52
  Speaker 3: and I don't think that's a bad thing to do,
• 22:54
  Speaker 3: to have someone with that perspective across all the different
• 22:57
  Speaker 3: disciplines and functions and roles and use cases and opportunity
• 23:00
  Speaker 3: there within its own realm. Though, HR generally is trying
• 23:04
  Speaker 3: to think about again, our problems are hiring, retention, benefits, composition.
• 23:08
  Speaker 3: Those sorts of things are our priorities for us. It's
• 23:11
  Speaker 3: problems are not those same problems, and so we need
• 23:14
  Speaker 3: to have some ownership within our our space as an
• 23:17
  Speaker 3: HR function.
• 23:18
  Speaker 5: Yes, it's like global governance and local flexibility as sort
• 23:22
  Speaker 5: of how I see companies implement policies like here's what
• 23:25
  Speaker 5: it means across the globe, but within your local region,
• 23:27
  Speaker 5: we know that you can't work on this day of
• 23:29
  Speaker 5: the week because of religious holidays, so we'll give you
• 23:31
  Speaker 5: flexibility to accommodate that. And the same thing is true here.
• 23:34
  Speaker 5: We need this big picture vision. We need to get
• 23:36
  Speaker 5: together and say this is who we want to be.
• 23:38
  Speaker 5: Do we want to be a company that automates all
• 23:42
  Speaker 5: the people, roles, gets everybody out of the business, tries
• 23:44
  Speaker 5: to just go straight technology. What do we want of
• 23:46
  Speaker 5: those companies that relies on our competitive advantage, which is
• 23:51
  Speaker 5: our people, And we're going to use those as our
• 23:53
  Speaker 5: differentiator and You've said it earlier. We're going to use
• 23:55
  Speaker 5: people to actually create content what no, really, Yes, that
• 23:59
  Speaker 5: will be our that will be our advantage over someone
• 24:01
  Speaker 5: else because they're creating things that again very nearro very homogeneous,
• 24:05
  Speaker 5: they're all going to start to sound the same. We're
• 24:07
  Speaker 5: going to use our people for the unique stories they
• 24:09
  Speaker 5: can tell, the differentiators, the connections they can make with
• 24:11
  Speaker 5: our audience. And so I think that's the opportunity really is. Yes,
• 24:15
  Speaker 5: has overarching sort of perspective, whether it is having a
• 24:19
  Speaker 5: person dedicated to it or having a counsel around that.
• 24:22
  Speaker 5: But within your own disciplines, you're going to have to
• 24:24
  Speaker 5: have the flexibility because the problems you're trying to solve
• 24:26
  Speaker 5: day to day are different than the problems trying to
• 24:28
  Speaker 5: be solved from marketing or sales or HR in this case.
• 24:32
  Speaker 2: And do you think that might be a part of
• 24:34
  Speaker 2: a role for HR as a management in its management
• 24:38
  Speaker 2: of employer brand? You know, like this is the kind
• 24:40
  Speaker 2: of organization where you know, AI is kept at this level.
• 24:45
  Speaker 2: Do you know what I mean like weight, weight based,
• 24:46
  Speaker 2: a human centric policy towards hiring, et cetera. I mean
• 24:49
  Speaker 2: and and and and how does how does hr play
• 24:53
  Speaker 2: that role in communicating externally about that brand.
• 24:57
  Speaker 5: I have actually not thought about that, and I think
• 24:59
  Speaker 5: that's a to question. Honestly, you see companies talking about
• 25:03
  Speaker 5: their fair treatment of people you think their company. You
• 25:05
  Speaker 5: see companies talking about what it's like to work here.
• 25:08
  Speaker 5: They share all these kind of details transparently in their brand,
• 25:11
  Speaker 5: trying to attract the right people, trying to discourage the
• 25:14
  Speaker 5: people who are like, oh, they work hard, that's a
• 25:16
  Speaker 5: fast paced I want some the solar pace. I'm gonna
• 25:19
  Speaker 5: find another company to work for. They're using their brands
• 25:21
  Speaker 5: for those things. I don't think it's a far cry
• 25:24
  Speaker 5: to say we should be talking about how we see
• 25:26
  Speaker 5: AI as a part of the evolving model of work
• 25:28
  Speaker 5: and the evolving nature of work, and say we expect
• 25:31
  Speaker 5: you to come here and be able to use those things.
• 25:33
  Speaker 5: Use it during your hiring process. You're gonna be using
• 25:35
  Speaker 5: it at work every day. We want you to push
• 25:37
  Speaker 5: the boundaries what's possible or Hey, we're gonna be using
• 25:39
  Speaker 5: this the tool just like we would any other tool, email,
• 25:42
  Speaker 5: whatever else. But also we are going to prioritize and
• 25:45
  Speaker 5: emphasize and lean on the human as the key part
• 25:48
  Speaker 5: of this because there are things that transparently AI can't do.
• 25:52
  Speaker 5: AI can't take responsibility for things. AI can't build relationships
• 25:57
  Speaker 5: with other people. A I can't mentor others, and those
• 26:00
  Speaker 5: other things that it can't do is where we should
• 26:01
  Speaker 5: be spending more of our time. I've had this weird
• 26:04
  Speaker 5: sort of love hate conversation in the last few years
• 26:07
  Speaker 5: with that discussion around AI being, Oh, we don't do
• 26:10
  Speaker 5: all the routine stuff, so we can be more strategic
• 26:13
  Speaker 5: after like we'll put my hands on my hips like
• 26:14
  Speaker 5: a superhero pose strategic. And people have said that so
• 26:18
  Speaker 5: many times, like Okay, what do you mean by that?
• 26:21
  Speaker 5: We actually have data. We actually collected data on talent
• 26:24
  Speaker 5: acquisition leaders, people who are responsible for hiring in their businesses,
• 26:27
  Speaker 5: asking them, are you more efficient? Are you using AI?
• 26:30
  Speaker 3: Okay?
• 26:31
  Speaker 5: If so, yes to both of those questions. What are
• 26:34
  Speaker 5: you doing with that freed up time? Are you sitting
• 26:37
  Speaker 5: around playing games on Facebook or watching TikTok videos or
• 26:40
  Speaker 5: are you doing something useful? And what we find is
• 26:42
  Speaker 5: they're spending more time building relationships with candidates. So we
• 26:45
  Speaker 5: talked about this, right that key connection with a candidate
• 26:47
  Speaker 5: out there, not automating that they're spending more time building
• 26:50
  Speaker 5: relations with stakeholders. I've heard it is a stakeholder of
• 26:54
  Speaker 5: HR and vice versa, right, And they're also spending more
• 26:56
  Speaker 5: time proving to the business the value what they're doing
• 26:59
  Speaker 5: every day. So they're leaning those other areas that right
• 27:01
  Speaker 5: now they're like, that's just out of my grasp. I
• 27:03
  Speaker 5: can't reach it. And once they have that time for it,
• 27:05
  Speaker 5: they lean in. So we have some data around that,
• 27:07
  Speaker 5: And to me, that's that's encouraging because I was a
• 27:09
  Speaker 5: little bit skeptical. It was like, we'll be more strategic,
• 27:12
  Speaker 5: what does they even mean? And now I've gotten to
• 27:14
  Speaker 5: the data of proving that, yes, that's happening in this role,
• 27:17
  Speaker 5: and if it's happening here, the opportunities there in other
• 27:20
  Speaker 5: roles as well.
• 27:22
  Speaker 4: I quite like your contempt for the word strategic, ben
• 27:25
  Speaker 4: is it is? It is a great hollow word in business,
• 27:28
  Speaker 4: isn't it?
• 27:29
  Speaker 3: Yes?
• 27:30
  Speaker 5: Again, every throws it around.
• 27:32
  Speaker 3: We gotta let's back it up. What's some proof?
• 27:34
  Speaker 4: Yeah, So you know, use that word to modernization earlier
• 27:38
  Speaker 4: as a potential consequence of lazy or excessive ai US,
• 27:44
  Speaker 4: you know, And it strikes me that that danger isn't
• 27:48
  Speaker 4: isn't I don't know if business is fully realized the
• 27:51
  Speaker 4: dimensions of that danger and what it could mean for them,
• 27:53
  Speaker 4: right like, because what could be worse for a business
• 27:57
  Speaker 4: than being completely homogenized.
• 27:58
  Speaker 2: And against this competitive you lose your entire competitive edge.
• 28:03
  Speaker 2: Rest of all, do you think that that's true? Second
• 28:05
  Speaker 2: of all, does a char's role become therefore more hands on?
• 28:09
  Speaker 3: Hips?
• 28:09
  Speaker 2: It's true?
• 28:10
  Speaker 5: Tag, So let's see, I do believe that. If ever here,
• 28:18
  Speaker 5: I'll give you an experiment. So we were talking with
• 28:20
  Speaker 5: one of our clients. Basically did an experiments across the
• 28:23
  Speaker 5: fortune one hundred, looked at all of their career sites,
• 28:26
  Speaker 5: pulled them together, did an analysis of the keywords, how
• 28:28
  Speaker 5: they talked about their cultures, all those things, and what
• 28:31
  Speaker 5: they found was substantially the majority of them. You could
• 28:35
  Speaker 5: have swapped out the logo and it would have all
• 28:36
  Speaker 5: sounded pretty much the same. They all stand for the
• 28:39
  Speaker 5: same things, they all believe the same things. There's no
• 28:41
  Speaker 5: difference between them. And that's not employer branding, that's employer blanding.
• 28:45
  Speaker 5: It all sounds exactly the same. There's no excitement, there's
• 28:48
  Speaker 5: no novelty. There's no reason for me to go work
• 28:51
  Speaker 5: here or there, and We did an experiment. I was
• 28:54
  Speaker 5: speaking at an events in for a group in India recently,
• 28:58
  Speaker 5: and I pulled together the age old debates here in
• 29:00
  Speaker 5: the States Coke versus Pepsi, and so I grabbed the
• 29:03
  Speaker 5: job from Coke India and Coke PEPs and Pepsi India
• 29:07
  Speaker 5: and put them together and showed the different jobs and
• 29:09
  Speaker 5: was asking the audience like, which one of these companies
• 29:11
  Speaker 5: want would you want to apply for? And so I'm
• 29:13
  Speaker 5: going through showing the job, posting themselves and no other
• 29:16
  Speaker 5: details from the website. You can't even tell eight clicks
• 29:19
  Speaker 5: in scrolling endlessly on the Pepsi one, who the company is.
• 29:23
  Speaker 5: It doesn't mention the company, it doesn't tell what they do.
• 29:26
  Speaker 5: You start reading the Coke one and it's in red fonts,
• 29:29
  Speaker 5: got their logo or their colors on it, and they
• 29:31
  Speaker 5: started talking about here's how we treat people at Coke.
• 29:33
  Speaker 5: He's important to us at co Cola. And so they're
• 29:36
  Speaker 5: going through those things. That sort of thing is already
• 29:38
  Speaker 5: happening where companies are trying to find ways to stand out,
• 29:41
  Speaker 5: and the best ones are doing a good job of
• 29:42
  Speaker 5: emphasizing that human that makes them unique, that human connection
• 29:46
  Speaker 5: that makes them different than everybody else. So I do
• 29:49
  Speaker 5: think that's an opportunity, and yes, HR has to be
• 29:51
  Speaker 5: playing a role in that, it's not We sometimes forget
• 29:56
  Speaker 5: that hiring an attraction is not just about pursuing a candidate,
• 30:01
  Speaker 5: but they have to look at us and say, I
• 30:02
  Speaker 5: want what you were offering me. It's not a one
• 30:05
  Speaker 5: way streets. And when you forget that, you think, well,
• 30:08
  Speaker 5: do you start to hear things like, well, they should
• 30:09
  Speaker 5: just be lucky we're even considering them. Let's be lucky
• 30:11
  Speaker 5: to have a job. And in the real world those
• 30:14
  Speaker 5: sorts of things don't don't really fly.
• 30:17
  Speaker 2: M Okay, last question for you, Ben, wonderful, wonderful discussion.
• 30:23
  Speaker 2: But if you if you look ten years ahead, do
• 30:24
  Speaker 2: you imagine close.
• 30:25
  Speaker 4: Your eyes for us, Ben, hand on it, close your eyes.
• 30:28
  Speaker 4: What is the most set, surprising, surprising, underappreciated way that
• 30:33
  Speaker 4: you think AI is going to reshape the world of HL.
• 30:36
  Speaker 5: Specifically, I'm going to tell you a quick story and
• 30:39
  Speaker 5: then I'll then want to answer your question with part
• 30:42
  Speaker 5: of that story. So one of my favorite examples to
• 30:45
  Speaker 5: give when I'm speaking, as I talk about years ago,
• 30:49
  Speaker 5: I mean years and years and years ago, there was
• 30:52
  Speaker 5: this fever that was rampaging, and the doctors were trying
• 30:56
  Speaker 5: to figure out how to even diagnose it. They had
• 30:59
  Speaker 5: no clue what to do, and this doctor said, hey, listen,
• 31:01
  Speaker 5: I'm one hundred percent I can diagnose it every single time.
• 31:05
  Speaker 5: And everybody else was like the medical profession said, how
• 31:07
  Speaker 5: is this impossible? We can't figure it out. So they
• 31:10
  Speaker 5: all come together said come on over. So they all
• 31:11
  Speaker 5: come over there and they're sitting around there watching this doctor.
• 31:14
  Speaker 5: He's like, here's what I do. Here's how I diagnose it.
• 31:16
  Speaker 5: So he reaches over into the mouth of a person
• 31:18
  Speaker 5: who's in fact and they feels their tongue okay, And
• 31:21
  Speaker 5: then he reaches over into the mouth of a person
• 31:23
  Speaker 5: who's not sure and he feels their tongue. Immediately thereafter,
• 31:26
  Speaker 5: he's like, yep, this person has it too, And everybody
• 31:29
  Speaker 5: around him says, WHOA, that's amazing. We never thought to
• 31:32
  Speaker 5: do that. Looking back now, we know that's ridiculous and
• 31:35
  Speaker 5: terrible as a medical practice. You're giving the other person
• 31:37
  Speaker 5: the disease the second you put your hand in their mouth.
• 31:40
  Speaker 5: But at the time they thought it was revolutionary and
• 31:42
  Speaker 5: amazing and brilliant that this doctor had discovered a way
• 31:45
  Speaker 5: to do this. I do not want us to end
• 31:48
  Speaker 5: up ten years down the line, twenty years down the line,
• 31:51
  Speaker 5: thirty years on the line, looking back saying how did
• 31:53
  Speaker 5: we let AI get to where it was? Talk about
• 31:56
  Speaker 5: that pendle on the swing earlier? How do we get
• 31:57
  Speaker 5: it let it get so far that we can never
• 31:59
  Speaker 5: bring it back to some level, some degree of humanity
• 32:02
  Speaker 5: and connection. Do I think AI is eating some jobs?
• 32:05
  Speaker 2: Yes?
• 32:05
  Speaker 5: Do I think AI is changing the tasks where we
• 32:08
  Speaker 5: need to be folksing gone at work? Yes? But I
• 32:11
  Speaker 5: really think the biggest thing for me is we have
• 32:14
  Speaker 5: to be intentional. We have to be intelligent. We have
• 32:17
  Speaker 5: to recognize our faults as humans in our reliance on
• 32:22
  Speaker 5: the easy way, the thing we've always known, the way
• 32:25
  Speaker 5: we've always done it. That's our brains are wired, and
• 32:27
  Speaker 5: our grooves and our brain are designed to do that
• 32:29
  Speaker 5: and follow that path. We have to do it differently.
• 32:31
  Speaker 5: So for me, the surprising way is that we're going
• 32:35
  Speaker 5: to see all this change and we're going to be
• 32:36
  Speaker 5: surprised by it. That's what I hope doesn't happen as
• 32:39
  Speaker 5: we're thinking about how this reshapes HR and work. More broadly,
• 32:42
  Speaker 5: I hope we are more intentional hands on the wheel
• 32:45
  Speaker 5: because all ready to early find is coming out from
• 32:47
  Speaker 5: Harvard and other organizations say that we are perfectly content
• 32:50
  Speaker 5: on the AI. Just make decisions on its own when
• 32:52
  Speaker 5: we think it's capable, even when it's not.
• 32:55
  Speaker 2: M so interesting, but I love it. Great perspective, pleasure
• 32:59
  Speaker 2: talking to you. Do share, do share a link to
• 33:02
  Speaker 2: that research. We're going to put it in the show notes.
• 33:03
  Speaker 2: We'll also put links to your LinkedIn and and your
• 33:07
  Speaker 2: books anything else you would like to like to feature
• 33:11
  Speaker 2: here where we people can reach out to your connect
• 33:13
  Speaker 2: with you, et cetera.
• 33:15
  Speaker 5: The best way to find some of the research or
• 33:17
  Speaker 5: send your HR team to find the research is lhr
• 33:19
  Speaker 5: dot io. That's the website and that's where all of
• 33:21
  Speaker 5: our guests have is shared and published for your charge.
• 33:24
  Speaker 4: Linked link linked to that website in the show notes.
• 33:27
  Speaker 4: Ladies and gentlemen, Thank you so much, Benn. It's been
• 33:29
  Speaker 4: a pleasure. Thank you guys.
• 33:32
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• 33:53
  Speaker 5: Thank you so much for listening.
• 33:55
  Speaker 1: Until next time,