Latest / Conservation Stories / Protecting the Flats: Redfish, Oyster Reefs, and the Fight for Texas Coastal Conservation

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Protecting the Flats: Redfish, Oyster Reefs, and the Fight for Texas Coastal Conservation · Conservation Stories

• 0:00
  Speaker A: Hello, I'm Dusty Timmons with Conservation Stories, and I recently was afforded the opportunity to go to the Hunt Fish Podcast Summit held outside of Houston and interview a number of venturing people for the conservation stories that you'll be hearing over the next couple of weeks. Included in these are people from all walks of life that are involved in conservation and charitable organizations that I feel will be really interesting. I hope you enjoy the podcast as much as I enjoyed recording the interviews for you.
• 0:29
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• 1:25
  Speaker A: we're here with Chuck Knisler.
• 1:29
  Speaker C: Nicer.
• 1:29
  Speaker A: Nicer. There it is. Yeah, my I don't have my glasses on. So again, he's regarded as one of the most accomplished and revered fly fishing guides in Texas. And that's what it, what it says in your bio. So that's what I'm going to hold you to. But the, the work that Chuck's done a lot with the controlling the, the commercial fishing, reducing the commercial fishing redfish and trout along the Ghost on the Gulf back in the days when the earlier pioneers shutting that down and his work with the what was called the Gulf Coast Conservation association, which is now the cca. And then with the growing popularity of it, Chuck realized that something needed to be done with the problems that were magnified in the Gulf. And so he started it with he founded the Flatsworthy Inc. In 2015. Chuck a lot of people have told me that when I talked, when I was talking about okay, what is this? You know, I'm not a Gulf coast guy long ways away and like what is Chuck. So you've been described to me as, you know, like I said earlier, the godfather of the fly fish along the coast. And the work that you've Done. Leading conservationists for protecting the redfish and trout. Tell me a little bit about yourself and about where your story comes from in protecting the redfish.
• 2:51
  Speaker C: Well, the good parts we don't have enough time for. Well, that. That's a. Oh, man. That. That was my training ground for what I'm doing today. Back in the 1970s, with several events that brought the popularity of redfish and trout, and especially redfish to the forefront. The pressure put upon the fishery by the commercial harvest of trout and redfish, through the advent of the ghost nets, which were monofilament nets that were just freestanding in the water. They had no floats, they had no nothing. I mean, people could go out and set these nets and they were indiscriminate. They would catch whatever is there. And over time, you know, we started noticing that we could go. We could go to places that we would normally catch fish, and there were none. And that became. That was coast wise. That was from South Padre, Galveston, Sabine Pass, you know, all up and down the coast, this phenomenon was going on. And so I went. I mean, everybody was grumbling to themselves and the conversations, you know, and we knew what was going on. We knew there was an enemy in this deal, and he was the commercial fisherman, and we knew how he was doing. I mean, we watched it. And so I went to a boat show and I was fishing just in Rockport back then. And there's a million stories in this thing. I'm telling you, they're great stories that could never happen again. All of the cowboy and Indian stuff that went on between netters and game wardens and us and burning cabins and shooting guns and, I mean, it was a real deal. And I went to the Houston Boat show, and it was in 1977, and I went there and there was a group of men at the door and they had. They were hauling us in. We formed the Gulf Coast Conservation association, and we want to stop the commercial activity on the nettingham of trout and nitrous. Well, sign me up. And so I got involved with that group. I was living in Brazoria county, they were in Houston. But I'm kind of a. I'm all in or I'm all out. And I was all in on that. So I got in with that group and it was led by Walter Fondren and others who were really my mentors in what I'm doing today as far as how they went about approaching conservation and how you won on an issue. And so that battle went on. We. When I say we, I was really Kind of a follower. I was probably member number 200 of the GCCA, which is now the CCA. I wasn't a founder, clear that up, but I became very, very active in that and formed the Brazil County Chapter. And I went up and down the coast starting chapters with guys and it. You know, recently I've been involved with some oyster work that was kind of similar, but the. Stopping of the gill netting was ugly. It was for real. And we were going into a group of men who had historically been involved in selling these fish, and we were stopping their livelihood, and they weren't real happy about it.
• 7:48
  Speaker A: I can imagine not.
• 7:50
  Speaker C: But, you know, I think probably the thing that I learned the most was I thought our cause was so right and so righteous that anybody who was objective about this would agree with us. And I'm talking about legislators or whoever, and that wasn't the case. I'm going, how can this be? We're seeing healthy fishery go to no fishery, and we know what the reason is, and they don't want to help us stop it. And I'm going like this just. This ain't right, you know, So I learned that even though your cause to you may be just, it doesn't mean you're going to attain it, that there are factors that you need to look at that are standing in your way. And so you have to define those. You have to meet them head on, one by one by one, and you have to overcome that. And in the. You know, we didn't. We started this in 1977. We didn't get House Bill 1000 until 1981. And I'd have never thought it'd take four years to get anything like that. Yeah, that's four years, you know, of your life shot to hell. So we had. We had different things along the way that. That made a real difference. We had Perry R. Bass, who, from Fort Worth and on San Jose island, was chairman of the Parks and Wildlife. And he got it. He understood. And when he came into this issue, he turned the tide for us. And then we had different legislators who stood up for us. And we had people. It just didn't make any sense. You know, all about historical relationships that some of these people had with the legislators in their home districts. And we couldn't unroot it. You know, it was an ugly fight. There's no doubt about that. But in the end, you know, everybody came around and passed House Bill 1000. And that's why people don't even know we did this. Yeah, people do not understand that at one point in time there were more redfish in the restaurant than there was in the water. And so when you talk about that topic nowadays, it doesn't mean anything to them. You know, they assume that we have a fishery and there's going to be fish there and you know, la de da dee da. Yeah, but those fish came from somewhere and they came from an effort back a good while ago to protect this resource. And then, you know, we've, of course after, after that we had several freezes, we've had algae blooms. We have different, different things that threaten the resource and hurt it. You know, I was speaking a little while ago and I said, you know, Mother Nature is a beautiful lady. If you give her a chance, she will heal, but you gotta give her a chance. And so every threat that I've seen come her way, I've seen her overcome the freeze of 83, the freeze of 89, red tide, brown tide, blue green algae, you know, the freezes in the 90s and we're still not over the freeze of 2021. Not my way of thinking, but it was a time I made a lot of friends. It was a time that I had people that I still deeply respect who gave of their time. They showed me the way for me to do it today. And I don't know what else to say about it.
• 12:13
  Speaker A: As someone who has infrequently been able to fish for redfish, I appreciate your efforts.
• 12:18
  Speaker C: Well, it, you know, it's, it's. None of these saints are ever a person.
• 12:24
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 12:25
  Speaker C: It's a coalition of people.
• 12:27
  Speaker A: Yes.
• 12:27
  Speaker C: Like minded individuals who came together and I'd like, I'd love to say I'm the guy that saved this place. Place. I'm not.
• 12:36
  Speaker A: No, but you're the guy that saved this place that I'm getting to talk to.
• 12:40
  Speaker C: Well then let me tell you how cool I really am.
• 12:42
  Speaker A: There you go. Well, the thing about it is that, you know, every movement, every change, every conservation effort that's led is generally speaking is a group of people. And maybe one of them may not be greater than the other, but all of them should be respected. And the work that you've done in, in protecting the fishery deserves to be recognized. And I'm not saying that you're the only one, I'm not saying that you're the head guy. But everybody's gone, everybody's gone out there and stood in the line and took the slings and arrows for it deserves some props and I really do appreciate because you know, I've done a Little bit of research back as a, as a kid I was very, you know, I read everything. I still read a lot, but. But hunting, fishing magazines were my jam. I mean I loved that. Love to hunt, I love to fish. But you know, being from the, the south plains of Texas, I'm not coastal and so I didn't grow up coastal fishing and did not get even to, to even get a taste of that until just the last four or five years. And, but I read the stories. I read about, you know, how tough it was and, and what the fisheries looked like back then back, you know, even, you know, I'm 51, I was born in 74. So this happened, you know what, before I was paying a lot of attention to it, before I could pay attention to anything. I was a matter of fact, I wasn't even messing a diaper when it started, probably. No, but the fact of the matter is that building that, that baseline, when you build a base, a hedge against, you know, you know, to protect the resource, you know, the people that put the foundation in that thing. Everything you do as a, from a conservation standpoint going forward from this goes back to that original Houston Boat show meeting it does where you may met that and it started there. You know, it's a flag that you can put in there. And you talked about the different thing, challenges that are still facing redfish. Let's fast forward a little bit and let's talk about the fishery today. You said it still hadn't recovered fully to the, from the freeze of 21. What are the challenges that you see to the fishery at this point?
• 15:06
  Speaker C: Well, There are some, number one, man is a threat. You know, look, we can go into this thing and we can, we can look at threats from natural occurrences or threats from man. We cannot do anything about storms, route, flood, any of those things. We can't.
• 15:39
  Speaker A: Right.
• 15:40
  Speaker C: We can only do something about man's influence, good or bad, on this resource. So we should focus on that. And that comes from improper using it with our accessing it with our boats and motors and tearing the resource up. It comes from over harvest of either fish or oysters. In this case, the threat when. If you go into flatsworthy.com, which is our website, and you look at, I have a video in there called Protecting the Resource. And I don't, I don't really remember what year that was made, but I made it with the University of Texas Marine Science Institute and Mission Ranchisner with Jase Tunnel and Katie Swanson. At that time, I thought the greatest threat to the health of the ecosystem. I mean, you have a fish and then you have a system that it lives in. So to look at one without looking at the other is a mistake. So I thought the greatest threat to the ecosystem was the health of the vegetation. And so we made this video, which is really a good video, even if I made it myself. It's about eight minutes long, but it tells a story about the decline. You, you know, you only start talking about issues when they are in decline. And so then I got involved in the oyster issue, which is where I am totally involved in today. And as I got into that, and I have a relationship that I'm proud of with all of the universities, all of the people of influence, all the NGOs of state agencies, I feel like I can call and get an answer to anything I might be smart enough to ask. But as I got into that issue, I realized that I was wrong in stating that the most important aspect of the ecosystem was a vet. It's the oyster reef. And from that lowly creature laying on the bottom of the bay, all of everything else emanates. And so we got into. You go to the website and I've got a video on there called the Tipping Point. And you look at that and it will tell you what the story is. It will tell you in a factual, but it's a passionate one. I mean, we got some energy in it. As I got into that, I realized that the biggest single threat is the over harvest of a natural resource that we had called the oyster reef that had evolved over eons of time. You know, man didn't do anything to put it there, God did. And man was tearing it apart. And we've got video evidence of what was going on in that, in that video. So that's my focus right now is on that issue first.
• 19:45
  Speaker A: Is that what's what started flatsworthy?
• 19:48
  Speaker C: No, what started flatsworthy was bad behavior. You know, I watched. I've been in that arena for a long, long time. I mean, look at me. No, don't.
• 20:03
  Speaker A: Hey, you still got more hair than I do, Steve.
• 20:06
  Speaker C: You're right there. But.
• 20:11
  Speaker A: So
• 20:14
  Speaker C: in the 90s, up until about 2015, I was on the water every day. So I knew what the heck was going on. I watched it. I watched the behavior between user groups and bad behavior, pardon me, and the total lack of fair chase and the unethical things that were going on. And so I came home and I said, I'm just going to gripe about this or am I going to come out and say something? So I called 11 other people from different user groups. I said, we need to have a meeting. We had a meeting, we talked about it. Everybody said, yeah, we can't believe what's going on. And so I formed Flatsworthy from that. And we started off working with etiquette, you know, conflict between kayakers, air bowlers, Poland skiff, you know, all of these issues right there. And we started trying to bring them together. It was kind of a Kumbaya deal. I'm sorry, I need some of that. No, no, no. So that's what brought us together. And then we had public meetings and we talked about these things and people hated me and people liked me and, you know, all of those things. But Covid came along and stopped the public meeting. We couldn't have them anymore. So we go, you know, like nine months. So during that time I went out, I said, well, I'm not going to waste this time. I went and had meetings with all of these people and in these institutions and built relationships and bonds. And then in 2016, what we witnessed as far as the total pillage of our oyster reefs by, I mean, just unbelievable pressure being put on the harvest on these reefs. And then from that I developed. I knew what was going to happen as it translated into erosion and everything else. And I just said, I got to do something. And I did. There you are.
• 22:36
  Speaker A: So when you talk about the educate a west Texas boy on an oyster reef and what's then, you know, drill down into the specifics of what do we. What. What's happening to them, what can we do to help bring that to protect our oyster reefs?
• 22:54
  Speaker C: Well, an oyster is a filter feeder number one. I mean, that's and tasty as I'll get out. That's our.
• 23:01
  Speaker A: And tasty as I'll get out.
• 23:02
  Speaker C: Yeah, I love to eat them. And here I am talking about halting, you know, harvest. But so it's a filter feeder. So as impurities are in your water and dirt and suspend other particulates in there, it will filter that out and release clean water. Clean water is clear water. Clear water allows sunlight penetration. All right, so filtration, the structure of the reef itself. A reef has forms as a result of a process called cementing. Ring a bell? Okay, so cementing is when you have two juvenile oysters and they grow in a secrete cement that binds them together to, over time, create a structure. Now, the structures don't just grow willy nilly, they only grow on suitable substrate. So hence, every part of the bottom of a bay is not oyster. It is only where you have a suitable substrate for that oyster to initially attach. Over time, it grows up and it gives it vertical relief above the surrounding area. So you in essence create a structure that is a levee within a bay system. The levee and the angle of slope on that will attenuate wave force and energy. It will control the volume and velocity of movement through that arena. So with water clarity, with volume control, velocity control, wave attenuation, those functions right there serve to reduce the pressures of erosion. And by having clear water, you allow sunlight penetration, which is essential to all marine life. Even the oyster needs sunlight penetration. Plus, the structure of a reef is home to hundreds of organisms itself, from worms to crab to fish to whatever you can think of lives on that reef. That's a home as opposed to a bottom that is nothing but clay or mud. So I don't know what else to say about it. That's it in a nutshell, is that it is essential to the health of a system. You know, I think back and I go, when I first got here, this was the most beautiful place I'd ever seen. Rockport, I mean, we're not there right now.
• 26:14
  Speaker A: I know what you're talking about, though.
• 26:16
  Speaker C: And man didn't create it. And then I see it change and I, I see, I see why it changes. And it, it tells me I've kind of lost my train of thought here. It's been a long day.
• 26:41
  Speaker A: It has been a long day. But
• 26:48
  Speaker C: the essence of this deal is that we have got to be responsible. We have to step up, we have to protect what we have. Because we're at my video. The first one you're going to see tonight is called the tipping point. And you reach different points in time where if things continue, you have gone over reality and you cannot recover from it.
• 27:12
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 27:13
  Speaker C: And so, you know, one of, one of my things is you. The cheapest restoration project is not to need it in the first place.
• 27:22
  Speaker A: Yes.
• 27:22
  Speaker C: So if we stop some of this jackassery that's going on out here, we don't need to fix it because it's not going to be broke anymore.
• 27:29
  Speaker A: Right.
• 27:30
  Speaker C: We're at a point where, if we stop, we can protect to the best of our abilities what we have now. And if we do not stop it now, in 10 years, it's not going to be here.
• 27:47
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 27:48
  Speaker C: You know, it's not. You know what, what you talk about in terms of conservation is not a light switch deal. You don't walk over the wall, hit a switch and a light comes on. It's cumulative over time. It's like corrosion, you know.
• 28:01
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 28:01
  Speaker C: If left alone, it just eats away what you got. And so you have to be creative. You have to look at yesterday, today and tomorrow. What was here 10 years ago, what's here today, and what. How does that trans. That differential translate into what's going to be here in 10 years?
• 28:20
  Speaker A: Right. When is the primary threat to the oyster reefs? Is it primarily overfishing or is it some other things, something else that's that we're doing?
• 28:31
  Speaker C: The primary threat to the structural integrity via vertical relief is dredging the archery, because that's what it is. I mean, it's no different than a drag line bucket. Yeah. You know, you're, you're, you're digging down.
• 28:52
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 28:53
  Speaker C: Into the structure. You're reducing that differential between the bottom and the crest of that reef.
• 29:00
  Speaker A: Right. Is there when you look, when you look at, like if we, let's say we stopped it right now and we stopped the dredging the oyster reefs as it sits right now, how long do you think. What is, what's the recovery time looking like? Is it like thousands of years? Hundreds of years, Dozens of years?
• 29:22
  Speaker C: Well, that's a great question, and I'm not sure it has a factual answer. You know, in the new video we're coming out with, it stated clearly in there that we got an issue called sea level rise. Right. And that that's a real deal. I mean, I went for years and didn't want to admit it, but the water is getting deeper, you know, and so if, if you don't harvest the reef, the natural growth per year will almost keep up with that. So you can, you can pretty well take that out as a future negative factor in that regard. Ask that question again.
• 30:09
  Speaker A: The length of time, the recovery time.
• 30:11
  Speaker C: Oh, the recovery time. So I think if we went into the mesquite prairie complex, which we have got them to declare that as a sanctuary area, 75,000 acres, that's off limits. They cannot harvest it. If we left it alone, it might heal itself in 50 years. It's a slow process. It depends upon how bad it had been degraded. You know, if you take a reef that it's was at the water level and that's three feet deep, you got to, you got to fill three years. I mean, three feet of differential. So there's, you know, that's a great question that I don't. Us don't think has a great answer.
• 31:04
  Speaker A: Yeah, well, sometimes.
• 31:05
  Speaker C: But, you know, here's, here's the deal. The objection is, you Know people object, right? They're gonna object. I like to eat oysters. I do too. Okay. We have mariculture coming into play. Farmed race oysters. We have a program called the col, which is certificate of location where men can come in and lease bottom from the state and create their own reef. And they have control of that for 15 years. And there's a lot of, a lot of activity in that arena right now. What we want to do is we want to stop, pardon me, the harvest on the public reefs, not, not the coel, not the private lease. We want to encourage the mariculture. And I will tell you, I've said this before, that every oyster house that I know of is resourceful enough to go get oysters from somewhere else and sell them.
• 32:20
  Speaker A: Yeah. When you talk about the mariculture, about growing, you know, in the cools and stuff. Could, is, is there an option, an opportunity to on that. Let's say that 75,000 acres, that's, that's set aside and protected. Could you use like, can you do like an artificial stocking like we do? You know they stock the bass in the, in the lakes around lumber. Can you do that with oysters and increase your population of oysters and help that you put a band aid on it with farm raised oysters to make and then let them, you know, put them out there, don't harvest them, but just you know, give them an extra.
• 33:00
  Speaker C: Farm raised oysters will not reproduce.
• 33:04
  Speaker A: Really?
• 33:05
  Speaker C: Yes. That's the only way you can legally introduce those into the water is that they won't reproduce? Yes. So that if they escape, there is no threat to the natural species of oyster. Okay. There's a program that we're participating in to create, to restore certain reefs in certain locations as nursery reefs for the production of spat to, for the general dissemination within a base system. So the farm raised oyster is going to be an edible deal? It's not going to. Now oddly enough, there's a fallout underneath that escapement and they go to the bottom and there will be reefs created, but they will not be, you know, they will give you a base for attachment of the natural spat that's in the water. So you know, you go either way with this answer.
• 34:16
  Speaker A: So if you make it, if you have an artificial reef below a col, then eventually you could have native species attached to it. And then all of a sudden you've
• 34:25
  Speaker C: got, well, the col is on the bottom. That's, that's a bottom lease.
• 34:29
  Speaker A: Okay.
• 34:30
  Speaker C: The oyster farm is a surface lease.
• 34:32
  Speaker A: Okay.
• 34:33
  Speaker C: You lease the ground underneath it. So you can have your oyster baskets above. Everything's grown in baskets.
• 34:40
  Speaker A: Yeah. Okay. So but you're talking about the particular matter like settling out.
• 34:46
  Speaker C: Some will settle out of that. Yeah, yeah. Go to the bottom and over time it'll. It'll form a reef.
• 34:52
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 34:52
  Speaker C: And with that reef is not going to, you know, they're not going to be impactful. What I see is a reef is something that is massive that you go, you go look at our, our videos and you'll understand what I'm talking about in the baffle reefs of the Mesquite Bay complex, they span open water from the barrier islands to the mainland.
• 35:26
  Speaker A: And
• 35:29
  Speaker C: to do what I want to do to protect the ecosystem, it's more than a two acre deal. Okay. We're looking at restoration projects and in some of the Mesquite Bay complex in Carlos Bay right now, we did one that was 70 acres. We got another one that I'm working with a very large corporation and some water offset stuff that could double that easily. So it's just, it's time and persistence and.
• 36:04
  Speaker A: Yeah, well, you're talking, you're basically talking about the. One of the things that holds true through every conservation effort for, in wildlife for, you know, whether it's aquatic wildlife, avian wildlife or mammalian wildlife, is the. One of the biggest challenges that they tend to face is habitat fragmentation. Where you go in and they've had a range that's. And I'm just going to use round numbers like it's been a thousand acres. Well, now it's 750 acres. But the 250 acres that's not in there is scattered all through it and it breaks it up. And so they don't have. They lose migration routes, they lose, you know, escape cover, they lose the nesting cover, you know, and it seems to me like you're working the same thing. When you have the dredging, you break up that reef and all of a sudden you have new erosion forces on the reef that seems like it reduces. That would cause problems with the, with the oysters. In addition to the original problem you had with the dredging on it, you have. It makes its own series of problems down through it. And then when you go back to fix it, it's got to be fixed in a, in a block big enough to make an impact.
• 37:13
  Speaker C: Yes, sir. Well said.
• 37:15
  Speaker A: But it's when you talk about doing a restoration, what, what goes into the restoration program project that you do. What do y'. All, what do you do?
• 37:24
  Speaker C: Well, it's frustrating in, in that we have defined in this, in this Mesquite Bay complex, in these five baffle reefs, Carlos Cedar, Third Chain Ayres and Second Chain Islands, we have defined starting points. You know, you can't look at a project and say I'm going to fix all of it. Well, that's just stupid, you know. So we have very specific targets to start. We have one called the Ayers Reef Point. Ayers Point. And to get that done, the first thing you have to do is agree that, you know, between all the agencies that we need to do this, then you have to do engineering and from engineering then you have to do design and then you have to submit it to all the agencies for it's three years, you know, and, and to get started on this, on this three million dollar project, you know, $450,000 is for engineering.
• 38:39
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 38:40
  Speaker C: You know, so you've got, you've got to have, you've got to have a lot. Then you got to have somebody that'll fund it, you know, so it's a daunting task, but we're working. I mean the only way you can get any of this done is to start it. Yeah, yeah.
• 38:58
  Speaker A: It's not.
• 38:58
  Speaker C: I said granted about. It doesn't. Do you. I wish I had the money to do that. Well, hell, go find some.
• 39:04
  Speaker A: And what's like the way you eat an elephant? One bite at a time.
• 39:07
  Speaker C: One bite at a time. That's exactly right. That's one of my favorite lines.
• 39:11
  Speaker A: But you got to start somewhere. When you start when you look at when. When was that 75, 000 acres. When was it set aside? When was it protected?
• 39:19
  Speaker C: November of 19th of 2022.
• 39:23
  Speaker A: So very recently, relatively speaking, in the world of government. That's yesterday.
• 39:28
  Speaker C: Yes, yes. Marks. In a while I've declared that and that. I just had one of our contemporaries here tell me that in all of the things you go back to saving the redfish or any of this. What we did in the Mesquite Bay complex was greatest conservation accomplishment on Texas coast. Appeared in the sentence.
• 39:49
  Speaker A: I don't.
• 39:50
  Speaker C: It set a precedent.
• 39:51
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 39:51
  Speaker C: It set a precedent of actually creating a sanctuary.
• 39:56
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 39:57
  Speaker C: And a big one.
• 39:59
  Speaker A: Yeah. That's not insubstantial. That's a, that's a good one.
• 40:03
  Speaker C: But that, that took a, that took a lot, a lot of work. It did that. And that didn't come easy. It didn't. We didn't, you know, we. Anyway.
• 40:19
  Speaker A: Well, it's, you know, it's both cautionary and, and it's also. But it's also Heartening that you, that, that it occurred. You know, and that's the thing about it is when something, when, when somebody starts a battle for conservation and trying to make a change, and when you've got that first flag you can post in the ground, it gives you hope. You know, it gives you hope that there's, hey, we can make some difference on this stuff. We can maybe, like I said, we can maybe stop the down. We can hit it before the tipping point gets here.
• 40:51
  Speaker C: Yes.
• 40:52
  Speaker A: You know, and we can protect it and we can grow from here on that. And it's, you know, the oyster, you know, the oyster reef issue is one that I've heard about a little bit, but I haven't. You know, it's. It's a long ways from home and, you know, it's the same. The saying in all politics is local when it boils back down to it. And when you go, the further we get from the coast, the less we hear about it. The issues that we hear are, you know, playa lakes and, you know, water going away and that kind of stuff. We don't get to hear the stories about, hey, you know, oysters are in danger down here. We need to protect the oysters. And so it's good to be able to get to talk to you about this and learn more about what, what we can do. What can. What would you give? Like, just some random Joe like myself, what would you say, hey, if you want to help, here's how you can help. You know, I'm too far. You know, you're too. I know you're too far away to show up down here on a Saturday on a cleanup or whatever, but what can just the random person do?
• 41:52
  Speaker C: Well, for right now, all right, so when we got, when we got the sanctuary created, all right, so I came up with this. To get anything done, you have to have a rallying point. You know, you can't just go out there and will the oysters. Well, what about the oysters? Well, you know, you gotta. You gotta have a point. And I created the baffle reefs. And when I created that, then it was something that everybody could gravitate to. So you have to have a central point. And so from that, I took that concept forward, I had different people come in and say, we can join you in this. And so we ended up with 21 agencies signing a common letter that we submitted to the Parks and wildlife, and 7,700 individuals did the same thing. So we created a following. In the next move, it's going to take a following to come in at some point in time. Everybody can't come up there and start jumping up and down a raising holy hill. You know, it's got to be focused on an objective to be. It's the hardest thing in the world to be is a soldier. But to be one in this case, and in a lot of cases, you got to start, you got to join something and you got to become knowledgeable in something and from that you will be prepared to help out when the time comes. I mean, there's enough information that we put out and enough communication that we're doing in social media. Both Facebook, Instagram, our notices to our members. Get, get, be a member. It's 35 bucks a year.
• 43:56
  Speaker A: Where's your information? Give me your. Your website and your social media.
• 44:00
  Speaker C: Our social media is infoatsworthy.com. i don't know about
• 44:08
  Speaker A: Google Flatsworthy.
• 44:09
  Speaker C: Yeah, Google Flatsworthy. Yeah.
• 44:11
  Speaker A: We'll see if we can't hunt it up and find it and make sure we put it in the show notes.
• 44:15
  Speaker C: Good, that's.
• 44:17
  Speaker A: I really appreciate your time. We're running short on time. We got to go to the next thing and hopefully you get to take a break. And I think this is your third or fourth consecutive interview. So you're.
• 44:27
  Speaker C: No, that's, you know, this, this is all important and this allows me to move my cause forward and I appreciate the opportunity. I really do. There's nothing too big or too little in life. You know, when you, when you have cause you believe in, all of it counts. I've seen it happens time and time again where I might be talking to a person that I don't know from Adam and in six months it comes back to me, you know, so it's all, you know, I just. I'm going to move this. I want to get this done.
• 45:07
  Speaker A: Well, I appreciate, I appreciate the effort that you've given in the past. I appreciate what you're doing now. And look for. I will look, I will Google that myself and join your flatsworthy soon as this evening when I get done here. But I do want to change before we shut down. You started fly fishing for redfish and trout in 67. Is that what it said?
• 45:29
  Speaker C: No. I came to Rockport first time in 67, bought a house here in 80, moved here full time in 92, started fly fishing in 93.
• 45:39
  Speaker A: Okay, so 93, that's still a very long time. So what's your biggest redfish you caught in a fly rod?
• 45:48
  Speaker C: 17 pounds on a seven weight. Yeah. In the wintertime in deep water and that sucker fought forever. You know, Go ahead.
• 46:01
  Speaker A: What's your biggest trout? I.
• 46:05
  Speaker C: You know what? I'm not a trout fisherman, so I'm going to answer it that way. I don't know what the biggest trout. I just never. Yeah, I love them, I respect them. They're. I'm always after redfish in a foot of water and that's not the prime habitat for big trout.
• 46:23
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 46:24
  Speaker C: So I'm not your big trout guy. I'm not.
• 46:26
  Speaker A: But 17 pound redfish is on a fly rod is a, an accomplishment.
• 46:31
  Speaker C: Well, yeah, I mean, but it's. It was a fun deal, I tell you, but it's. I don't know, there's the, the, the thrill of agony and. Agony and the burden of defeat or whatever that deal is. Victory, challenge. You know, it's. The whole goal is to go either walk or be in a boat and cover ground and see a fish and then try to catch it.
• 47:03
  Speaker A: Yeah. So you still get to do it a lot?
• 47:08
  Speaker C: No, I'm really working on this non stop. There's so many narratives that go on. I have so many different avenues that I need to keep. You know, if I can fish a couple days a week, that's great.
• 47:23
  Speaker A: Yeah, you know, if I could fish a couple days a week, that'd be great. Someday I'm gonna get to fish a couple days a week, but.
• 47:30
  Speaker C: Well, come down and see me.
• 47:32
  Speaker A: I will try to. Chuck, I appreciate your time. Thank you very much for being on our show this afternoon. I appreciate it.
• 47:38
  Speaker C: Well, I enjoyed it. I appreciate the opportunity and the opportunity of meeting you. I see someone who is really concerned about conservation in your eyes and in your words and in your understanding, and I appreciate that.
• 47:53
  Speaker A: Well, once again, thank you very much for the work you've done. Thank you for what you continue to do and for the inspiration you are to people like me who. They're just kind of getting into it. Thank you very much.
• 48:04
  Speaker C: Thank you.
• 48:04
  Speaker A: Have a good day.