Latest / The Big O Podcast / The Big O Podcast - Episode #6: Kirk Minihane

Transcript

The Big O Podcast - Episode #6: Kirk Minihane · The Big O Podcast

• Glenn Ordway: All right, today's guest is no stranger to podcast. I think he calls himself Podcast Jesus or something like that. Nice Monica, big fellow. but he also had a career in radio. Now he may not want to talk an awful lot about radio, but we're gonna force him to do it. Kirk Menahan joins us. Great to see you, Kirky. Kirk Minihane: Wow. Glenn, you got fifty eight minutes before your hour at the home is done. You have to go back into bed. Tapioca at twelve at two o'clock. So we'll we'll get through this here today. Look at this new guy, Glenn Ordway: Yes. Yes. Yeah, I do. Kirk Minihane: the AI. This is like, this is unbelievable. I'm just looking at Chanting Tatum here. It's crazy. Glenn Ordway: Yeah, I'm learning all this yeah, I'm learning all this shit in my seventies. I should have learned it in my twenties, you know? Would have Yeah. Kirk Minihane: At the same time, who knew you but you're basically Joe Jackson at this point. Like like using your Glenn Ordway: Shut up! Kirk Minihane: children to just dance for you and entertain you on the weekends, it's the child abuse is also something we have to get into at some point. Glenn Ordway: All right, talking about abuse, I'm gonna throw it right back at you. If those Kirk Minihane: Go ahead. Glenn Ordway: Mina fans out there think that Kirk Minihane: Mm-hmm. Glenn Ordway: the Kirk Minahan you see and hear now was always this guy, I'm Kirk Minihane: well wait a minute, wait a Glenn Ordway: gonna take you back to 2009. And you knew who was the host of the hot stove baseball show every Wednesday night with Alex Spear and Rob Bradford talking about war and saber metrics? It was Kirk Minahan. Kirk Minihane: Was it was it two thousand nine or was it two thousand two thousand ten or two thousand nine? Go ahead. Glenn Ordway: It was nine, right? Kirk Minihane: You're probably right. You're probably right. But yeah. Yeah. Glenn Ordway: You were doing a baseball show. You were sporty McKenzie back in two thousand and nine. Kirk Minihane: I've never said I didn't like that stuff, you know, but but you know, I've always said this to move up. If you ask me in 2009, would I have rather done a show like you guys were doing or John and Jerry were doing or Howard Stern was doing? Of course. But when you're moving up, if they say that you're hosting a show and you're not in the room, I'm gonna say yes. I'll say this. So I think you and I don't you you definitely don't remember the first time that we talked. Glenn Ordway: the first time we talked to you you were doing columns and I thought it was right out on the in the station floor, you know, where everybody can no? Kirk Minihane: That was a set. No, no, no. That was a s I remember this because you were at that time, you were, you know, you were young f seven, eight, seventeen, eighteen years ago. You were in your late 60s at that point. And Glenn Ordway: Ha ha ha. Kirk Minihane: no, if you remember, so I was writing for EI.com for Rob. Glenn Ordway: Yes. Yep. Kirk Minihane: And there was a story like locally in the Buffalo area that Fred was thinking about running for Congress. Do you remember this or no? Glenn Ordway: I do remember that. Kirk Minihane: So Rob was like, here's Glenn's number. I'll have you call Glenn and you'll find he'll let you know if it's true and I called. You were great. You're like, nah, like I you're like, I don't think so. He's like, you'd be like, that's that'd be crazy if he did it. and so that was it. And then, yeah, so I moved back from California. I was in California at that point. I moved back to Boston in like 09. And I ran into you in the parking lot in like late 09, 10. I was doing weekends, and you were very didn't know you at all. You were the, you know, the afternoon host of the station, and we talked for like 20 minutes. You couldn't have been nicer, very complimentary. I like what you're doing. Maybe you should try this, maybe you should try that. Like, very Ver and we never had an argument again after that. That was it. It's been But we've always but we have always loved each other. I mean, that's a fact. Like we have always yeah. Glenn Ordway: No. We'll we'll get we'll get to some of the arguments we had during the co. We have. We've always we've always got along, and I will give you a lot of credit. When I was fired in 2013, there was nobody that was more supportive than you. You were calling me on a regular basis. We'll get to the whole story because you pressured the station on bringing me back. And then when I retired, you stayed in touch with me and we talk every once in a while. And I obviously catch your stuff. I I caught Kirk Minihane: Yeah, it's always great. You were in you were in here at one time, yeah. Yeah. You did something for our last last theater show. Yeah. Glenn Ordway: Yeah, I I was. And yeah, and I I watched some of your stuff like the the case you solved a murder, something I never thought you would do in your life. I thought you would commit a murder, probably Kirk Minihane: Two two murders, but yeah. Yep. Glenn Ordway: in the studio back in the heydays, but I never thought you would solve one. Kirk Minihane: Right. Well the truth is I've solved two and both of them were actually ones I did, so I just pinned it on somebody else. I figured it was probably a good move. I'm just gonna keep doing that every couple of years. No, it's a yeah. Yeah. Glenn Ordway: Not a bad idea. You know, nobody's gonna know the difference. So I do remember the conversation in the parking lot. I didn't think that was the first conversation we had, but I d do remember having Kirk Minihane: Mm-hmm. Yeah, it was. Yeah. Glenn Ordway: the conversation. I remember asking you the question because you were working weekends with Dale, correct? Kirk Minihane: It was right. No, no, it was before that, because that was after Dale got fired. They fired Dale. They replaced him with I mean the absolute zero war guy. Mutt is a zero point zero career war guy. No, I was just doing stuff with like Rob or you know, you know what it's like back then for guys like us. For me back then, you know, hey, you're working ten to one on Sunday with Eric Freed, or you're working ten to one on Sunday with Rob Bright, you whoever. And I probably worked Glenn Ordway: Eric Freed, wow. Yeah. Kirk Minihane: with thirty people and they were some of them were great, some of them were assholes, but most of them were pretty cool. they really were. But no, you ran you like, you did this, a specific thing. I I even forget what it was. And you're Maybe because I was hosting it. I wasn't in the two chair, I was hosting a couple of times. And you said, Maybe you should try this. And I thought, that's interesting. And that you were listening and and I appreciate that. And then even then, all the way up to when I started in the mornings, we would kind of check in back and forth. Cause yeah, then you got yeah, well, we'll get to it, but you got fired. It was the correct move. They they got the right guy. but yeah, so then we started talking a lot when Salk was doing his thing in Dominic. Glenn Ordway: Yeah, I think the advice I gave you was go and attack Aaron Andrews on the air and see how that works. That was that not it? No? Okay. Well, I I so I guess I gave you good Kirk Minihane: Well, I don't think that's I don't think that's necess I mean why? It's it's twelve years. Why are we you know, look, I mean you're you're the you're the one on the big show celebrating when nine eleven happened with these guys, you know, so I don't I don't I don't s I don't call you out on that. Glenn Ordway: So you did but you did work with Dale Arnold on the weekends. You did some shows with him. Kirk Minihane: I did work with Glenn Ordway: What was that like? Kirk Minihane: you know exactly what it was like. It was I actually Dale and I got along really well. And there's a there's a list of like older guys at the station who I, when I started moving up, I was a complete asshole to thousand percent. Dale was one of them. But when we did the weekend show together, it was fine, but it was, you know, brush, you know, have your milk, have your cookies, brush your teeth, read your book, brush your hair, go to bed with Dale. Like it was just and Dale in that chair was like. Like there's there is it was like the movie Footloose. There's no dancing in this town. Like there is no funnel out. Like, make sure you're, you know, make sure the skirt is below the below the knee, and we're gonna fucking talk about and he was but Dale's the first person, I will say this, who ever said to me was during a commercial break. he was like, You could be on like every day. He's like, You're good enough to be on like five times a week in a day part. That was nice. And I and we obviously fell out later. I don't talk to Dale. But like he was you know, you know Dale. I hope you're gonna get Dale on? Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. I don't know why you wouldn't, yeah. I saw your tweet. Yeah. Glenn Ordway: I hope so. Yeah, I want to get everybody on. I want to get the guys on from the other station too. I mean, Fred Fred Tutcher was actually listening to the podcast this week. He heard the John Dennis interview and he came out and started giving this whole story about how he used to have fun all the time in radio. They have great fun over there, and we never had fun. And I did tweet him back and say, We had a blast. We had a great time. Now it we didn't have we certainly had toxic moments. But they were very similar Kirk Minihane: Mm-hmm. Glenn Ordway: to Fred's toxic moment in the time he spent with Rich. They obviously didn't like each other because the Kirk Minihane: Yeah. Yeah. Glenn Ordway: ending was disastrous, right? Kirk Minihane: And Fred shits on them all the time. Yeah. I mean, I was excuse me. I know I get accused for of being, you know, a a this toxic figure at the station. I completely own that. But I had a Glenn Ordway: You should. Kirk Minihane: I had a I had a million good times at the station. But like the difference is we would then fight about it and talk about it on the air. Where over there they would shit on each other, call each other assholes. People at that station would text me. I know they would text you and say, I hate this fucking guy, I hate this fucking guy, but they would never talk about it. So it's like, well, we just talked about it. I like Fred. Fred and I get along really well. Glenn Ordway: Yeah, I like Kirk Minihane: But like the idea the idea that it's like we were this crazy now, our problem was our shit just always got out. of Glenn Ordway: the point you just made think it's because Chad Finn of the Boston Globe protected those guys. He knew the stories. He didn't reveal Kirk Minihane: Yeah. Yeah. Glenn Ordway: the stories, anything that happened at our place, Chad was all over it. And I'm not saying he shouldn't have been all over it, but Kirk Minihane: But we would Right. Glenn Ordway: it didn't seem like there was an equal treatment of the two stations. Kirk Minihane: Right. For sh for sure. That's exactly right. But we would also talk about it. Like, you know, like we I would just go in the air the next day and we would and you would we would just have discussions about how we hate each other or how this guy hates this guy and then people like that. I don't know, like to pretend people don't like that is just disingenuous. But I was gonna say that we couldn't get out of our own way. I know we'll talk about sensitivity training at one at at some point here, but I remember Glenn Ordway: Well you will. Kirk Minihane: Jerry and I were were eye deep in shit trouble with Merchant and all this stuff. We flew out of Pennsylvania to meet with David Field, with Mark Hannon and everyone, and we were in trouble. And we had lunch with David Field, who who owned Entercom loser. Owned Entercom, you know, whatever. Hammond's there, Joe Zarbama's there for no reason. And Jerry and I. And we have lunch with Field, who's, you know, dickless. He's just whatever, empty head. But he gives us a long speech and we get on the plane flying back. The plane's about to take off. I'm next to Hannon on the plane. and Hammond says to me, I think if we stay out of trouble from here on in, we're gonna be fine. I was like, Yeah, I guess I hope so. Plane lands, we put on our phone. That was the day Fourier did the Don Yee thing. It was literally that day. It was that day. And my phone was like boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. So and then and then yeah, there we go. I remember I actually talked to Fourier on the way back that night, and he was like, This is crazy. I'm like, Yeah, welcome, welcome to it. Like, this is this is how it goes. Glenn Ordway: Well, and and and again, because this the way the station is spineless over the years in dealing with crisis, it blew up, you know, beyond recognition. I mean, I think what Christian was doing is he was actually doing a Ron Borges impression of doing a Don Yee impression, because that was the big story. It was Borges. You know, Kirk Minihane: No, he was just showing how stupid Borges had to be Right. Glenn Ordway: Borges got fooled by somebody on the phone. Correct by a minafan, thinking it was Don Yee. Kirk Minihane: By a minafan. By a by a no, by a by a fan of ours on not even yeah, who who messaged him? This guy's he stole all my live shows. Nick in Boston, I think. Great guy. And what Fourier was doing was exactly what I did during the commercial break, which was how stupid does Borges have to be to believe this is Don Yee? Does he have to do this? And I Glenn Ordway: Yeah. Kirk Minihane: did the stereotypical which what Fourier did, and I heard Fourier do it on the cab ride from the station to the airport. And we're thinking, that that's funny. Like, okay, it's that's a that's a risk. But I never thought, but you never, you know. And you guys took shit. You and Lou took shit for for laughing. And I've been in that spot where it's like, Glenn Ordway: Yep. Right. Kirk Minihane: you're not gonna be in the guy in the radio who's like, Christian, listen to me, okay? That's really culturally inappropriate. Let's take a pause. Let's take a break and come back and apologize. It's just not it's not how it works. It's just not Yeah, I mean, I don't. Glenn Ordway: good it's good radio though when you calm somebody down on the air when they yeah. Kirk Minihane: I mean, there's just so much. God. It feels like Yeah, good. No, good. Yeah, good. Glenn Ordway: Well, taking it well, amazing. Amazingly, when you talk about that and and people, you know, overreacting or taking stuff out of context. I've got to ask you about this. Cause I remember a prank that you did, and it was it was now with Barstool Sports, it wasn't with WEEI. But you had Tony Maserati, who was doing Red Sox games on Nessant at the time. You were texting back and forth with Tony Maserati. Kirk Minihane: Three years. Three years. Glenn Ordway: You were identifying yourself as Linda Pasuti and he bought it hook, line, and sinker. How did that start and where did it go? Kirk Minihane: Well, Maserati's really dumb. I like him, but he's like amazingly like like he does number two in the urinal, like that level of dumb. So I thought it would be fun. They announced that Tony was gonna do the games, and I had his number. he'd been nice. He'd reach out to me when my folks had died. I'd reached out to him. I think his mom had like he was and I'd see you know how they should see him at Super Bowls or whatever. And you told me to nice. He's a nice guy. Glenn Ordway: Nice guy. Yep. Kirk Minihane: terr I think that thing on the air is brutal. But so I was like, this will be kind of funny. And I learned the Pizzutti's number because of all the Globe stuff. We had she was always very friendly with Interact. So I was like, it'd be funny if I messaged Maserati during the opening of Felgrand Maz and say, after the first segment, be geez, is it okay if you kind of like mention how like grateful and how good the Red Sox have been during this whole thing? Next, I'm like watching it happen. Maserati says it. So I just kept doing it like occasionally over the years. Like, like I said, my one of my producers, Dave Cullinane. We do these live shows. You know, you've done videos for us, these theater shows, Glenn Ordway: Yep. Yep. Kirk Minihane: we do a bunch of videos. And I messaged Mazrabi's Linda Pizzoni. I said, Listen, I have a really disabled nephew of mine, Dave, who's a huge fan of yours. You should willing to to do a video for him. And Mazrabi did the video. And I was like, I text him back. I was like, Glenn Ordway: Ha ha ha ha. Kirk Minihane: I was like, he's actually much more disabled than you've like let on. Can you please like speak to him like he's even more disabled? So he did that. And by the way, a huge fan of my show is Jim Murray. Like he does stuff for us all the He's a huge fan. So he's sitting next to him during all this stuff. So Maserati finally figures it out and sends me this. Glenn Ordway: Yeah. D hold on, did Jim Murray have any idea this was going on? Kirk Minihane: yeah, he listens to every show. Yeah. yeah. Yes. So I finally get text. Maserati finally gets smart to it. And Maserati texts me and he's like, You're just a rich kid punk ass. Like, fuck you. And I was like, totally deserved. Like, I have no you you say whatever you want. Like, yeah. leather, let leather rip. Three years. Three years. Three years. Glenn Ordway: That was cruel. That was mean, no question. How long did this how long did you let this thing go on for? Back and forth? How much? Kirk Minihane: Three. Three years. Glenn Ordway: And Tony couldn't Kirk Minihane: I was Glenn Ordway: figure it out? Kirk Minihane: and I was telling specific things like it was like every four or five months I would do it and just be like, hey, listen, like he would do something on the I tried to get him on a f like a fake story too. I forget what it was. Like, hey, just a heads up, but it like I gotta confirm this. I f it was so ridiculous. But but he was really excited for us. It was basically like I don't remember the year, the context, but basically like, hey, like we're talking about selling the club. Who did I say it to? We're having conversations about selling the club to somebody that made like No sense. I forget it was like, you know, I I I gotta go back and look. But he like, Well, I gotta double check to make sure and I think that's when he started getting suspicious because it was yeah, it was ridiculous. But these are things I do to amuse Glenn Ordway: Wow. So Kirk Minihane: myself. Clown, it's either that or, you wind up back in the rubber room. So Glenn Ordway: Well, you you know, you talked about, you know, how we would go back and forth at each other and Kirk Minihane: Mm-hmm. Glenn Ordway: it sounded real on the air, and a lot of it was real, but some of it was kind of, you know, let's rip the shit out of the afternoon crew, and then the afternoon crew will rip the shit out of the morning crew, and we keep something going because the idea is to connect the shows. And I I got it. Kirk Minihane: Right. All day. All day. Yeah. Glenn Ordway: I understood it. I think that To me, and and you know me, I don't give a shit. You can say whatever you want about it. Did you know I'm I'm fat? Did you know that? Okay. I I don't Kirk Minihane: You were you were. Glenn Ordway: give a shit. Okay. You can say whatever you want. I've been called, you know, every name in the book in in the business. But I think with you, you're either a good actor or a bad actor because you could never do it with, you know, a little wink or whatever. You had to buy into it. And so it became extremely vicious. I understood it. I don't think a lot of people at the station understood it. Dale certainly didn't understand it. Michael Hawley didn't understand it. And Kirk Minihane: No, no, a lot of people didn't. No. Glenn Ordway: so they thought when you went in the crazy Kirk rant, my God, this guy is a nut job and he hates me. Kirk Minihane: Yeah, and I knew all these people. You know, I obviously I'd worked with them. I had, you know, done stuff with their they were all, you know, friends of mine to some extent. but it was never, to be clear to your the start of your premise, it was never like you and I would text each other on a Wednesday and say, let's go after each other on a Thursday. It's just because that doesn't work. Like people you just smell it, it doesn't feel real. But my thing was always, and look, I'll admit it, like I was in, you know, I was crazy. I was young, younger, I was in my thirties and I really wanted this my one shot. And and you it becomes a drug. People are you're great. You're the guy who's going after these guys. You and you get into it. And it's also fun. And I was lucky to work with guys that let me do it. Like if my first job had been like replacing Holly with Dale or whatever, I I would have been sunk. So I was lucky with John and Jerry. You we we'll talk more. It's complicated, but I was lucky. but yeah, I I it would then get like My thing is I would go nuts on somebody, then they would respond, and sometimes I'd be what the fuck are they responding for? Who the fuck? And it's like, well, I just shit on them. of course they should respond. They should tell me to go fuck myself. But sometimes Glenn Ordway: Exactly. Kirk Minihane: I wanted them. I'd get mad when they wouldn't say it. You know, Glenn Ordway: Yeah. Kirk Minihane: I'd get mad at them for saying it, then they wouldn't say it. I'd be like, you're a pussy. Well, it's like, which fucking side, you lunatic? I mean, I had a lot of shit going on, obviously, too. But like, I was cr I'm I'm still crazy now, but I was every day. I took I took, you know, this size slight as the biggest thing in the world. The biggest thing in the w how fucking dare you ask me to do this advertising read. Go fuck yourself. Get the fuck out of here. It's like, well, you can't just do the O'Reilly other parts read. Who fucking cares? That's stupid. Like, who cares? Just read do the do the dumb copy. But I couldn't. And everything became Glenn Ordway: So the station Kirk Minihane: and working with Jerry and John, they were very us against the world too. So like, you know, it became and then Jerry and I even more so. So but yeah, I would take anything as this insane, like the world's against me. But you know, as I get older I realize that everyone else is crazy and I'm not. And once you get to that point, then you're fine. And you're fine. Glenn Ordway: They wanna Well anyway, two thousand and thirteen. The station Kirk Minihane: Yeah. Glenn Ordway: sees the potential. They tried Kevin Winter out to be the third person Kirk Minihane: Yeah, poor guy. Glenn Ordway: with Dennison Callahan in the morning. He's an ESPN guy. It didn't work. He lasted two, three weeks, something like that. No, it wasn't his fault. No. Yeah, right. And Kirk Minihane: Not his not his fault. Not his fault. bad casting, I think, yeah. Yeah. Glenn Ordway: so they threw you in there. So you gotta tell me what it was like because I I asked John last week, what was it like? Going into an established show, two older guys now who had their own set ways, and you need to make a name for yourself, you're the third chair. Kirk Minihane: Mm-hmm. Well, you know what's funny is tying into you, when I took over wh wh when I got the the third chair guy, it was late February twenty twenty thirteen. So you had just been fired. Glenn Ordway: Right. Correct. Kirk Minihane: You were like so that was still in the air. I remember I did Glenn Ordway: By the by the way, hold on for a second. Is that Mike Salk guy still doing afternoon drive? good. good. Glad he's doing well. Kirk Minihane: I hope so. I talked him every day. I hope so. You see, I would like to see him around. You should get him on. That would be good. Glenn Ordway: Would be good. Kirk Minihane: also bad casting. in a way, we were also not his fault. But I did the first I remember talking to you. I did the first big show, whatever, Holly and filling in for you on that Monday after you left, after your, you know, your three week retirement shows on the Cash prizes and they gave you the rocking chair. It was like Kareem and it was like Kareem and Dr. J in like eighty-five. So so yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, there was a night, it was just a knife in the back, which was which was next to the knife in the back of Johnny Moss that you were responsible for. So it was full circle. So Glenn Ordway: We did have cash prizes. Hold they had to put the banner up on the your rafters, yeah. That's right. Kirk Minihane: I had never in my life seen. So Holly and I start, and it's like fine. We're joking around, like, you know, we're both like we love Glenn, but every text is like fucking. Fuck you. Fuck the station. Go fuck yourself. Die. Kill yourself. I'm like, this is over Glenn? Jesus Christ. Wow. What a standard we have. Like, I, you know, I love this guy. The big show is my life. Fuck you. Fuck you, Holly. Fuck. And I'm like, wow. So the station is really in a bad spot. you know, 985 is now really rising. the ratings are not as great. Obviously, they were at the peak of EEI, but like, I think they'd sign for them now, I would just say, in the 2013 ratings. Glenn Ordway: They would take it. Kirk Minihane: So that's where I walk in. So I had I had done a show with everybody on the air. You and I did a lot of shows together. I filled in for Glenn Ordway: Mm-hmm. Kirk Minihane: Holly a bunch. I worked with Holly. I worked with Dale a bunch. I worked with John a lot. or you know, I I'd done a few weeks with John when Jerry the only person I had done a show with was Jerry. I had never done a on the air thing with Jerry. I had taken my son Harry, who was not even one yet at that point, for a run on the running stroll that morning. I still remember this. This was in February, and I'm putting him back in, getting this thing, putting it back in the car. And the phone rings, I don't recognize the number. I answer and it's it's Jerry. And he's like, Minihan. He's it's not working with with Kevin Winter. He's a good kid, but it's not he's like, I like that you read the Frank Kona book over the weekend. You care about stuff. I want you on the show. I'm like, okay, so I try it out. If you remember after John, after Meter left, there was a bunch of us try it out. I tried out, Kevin Winter tried out, I don't know, a bunch, a bunch of people. so I you know I guess Jerry hadn't been in that day. So I was like, sure, I guess. I talked to Jason Wolf and it was done. I talked, they were down at spring training. So I remember on a conference call, Jerry was talking about how he could see a a pig outside or I don't know. He's yapping away. I'm like, what the fuck am I getting into? So I get there that morning. The only thing I said to Wolfie, which took balls, honestly, if you remember back then at this point, I was like, I don't want to be in the meter booth. I was like, I want to be in the studio with those guys. I don't want to be the Glenn Ordway: I do remember that. Kirk Minihane: third chair. I want to be, if not equal to those guys, I want to be more than hey. You know, Seattle five, Milwaukee two. You know, hey, this guy. Emita was more than that, but like Emida was good at what Emeter did. He was like Grandy with you or Breen with Imus. I that wasn't my thing. So I started in the it with those guys. The first couple of days was weird. They put me back in the booth for a little bit. it was just weird. The first few weeks were weird. It was getting into a marriage, and those guys were not getting along very well. Choc would come in during the break. He was still there. He'd be motherfucking Dino. Then be motherfucking Jerry. Jerry'd be motherfucking Dino. This guy would be motherfucking. Dino didn't really do anything. He would just sit there and kind of, ooh, you know. and then, but it was weird because Dino was, I remember Finn actually wrote about this. The headline was like, Why is John Dennis being condescending toward Kirk Minahan? It like maybe in March or something. And it wasn't working. Like he was kind of being an asshole to me. There was this weird phone call. We had Jerry Remy on every week at that point, if you remember. And Glenn Ordway: I too. Kirk Minihane: I had written something about Remy in a few years before at EI.com. And Remy called me out in the interview, like out of nowhere, which is fine. Like I wrote it, I was I was happy to go back and forth with him. and then like a day or two later, I was in this in the office and the phone rang and Chris Curtis was like, It's Jerry Remy who wants to talk to you. And Remy was like crying almost. He was like, John, she's like, John put me up to that. He's like, I didn't want to do that. It makes me feel he's like, I feel bad. Sorry about that. I was like, Don't worry about it. I don't care. Like, no problem. And John would do like the minafield, mini hane kind of like, you know, the stuffy the John stuff. And it was awkward and kind of uncomfortable, but Glenn Ordway: Mm-hmm. Kirk Minihane: it was okay. But I was like two or three months in, I was like, this isn't working. Like I'm not me on this thing. And finally one day, John was out for in the summer and we had that Callum Borkers guy on. I did that Glenn Ordway: yeah. Kirk Minihane: story on the line where we found out that he was he'd done the story about randomly picking people on the street that like ninety eighty five more than Boston for the globe. It turned out like four of them were his friends. I wrote it. Glenn Ordway: Right. Kirk Minihane: We called him and Jerry and I just kicked the shit out of him. For twenty minutes. And then I was off then I was like, yeah, I'm fine. I can do this. And then and then slowly, the truth is, slowly I became the biggest personality on the show. By the time I mean the truth is the the numbers went up, you know, John the the numbers went up. The Aaron Andrews thing happened. Yeah, the what's yeah. Glenn Ordway: Numbers took off. People for pe people forget about that period of the radio station because they talk about it dying slowly starting in 2009, 2010, 2011. And it did go into the shutter. I mean, the numbers certainly did, but there was a huge rebound in 2016. And I think you were if we're gonna do the if we're gonna do the blame pie or Kirk Minihane: Well I'm talking I'll be but I'll be even Yeah. Glenn Ordway: the praise pie, you would get the largest percentage. But you were number one again in the morning. Ahead of Toucher and Rich. We Kirk Minihane: Yep. Yeah. Glenn Ordway: were number one in midday. Dale and and Holly were doing afternoon and they were number two. So the station had come all the way back. Now Kirk Minihane: Yeah, with like an eight or nine rating. Yeah. Right. Glenn Ordway: the thing starts to unravel all over again after like Kirk Minihane: Well right. Glenn Ordway: a two-year period when in which we're all sitting there going, hey, these are like the good old days again. You know, it's all back. So you Kirk Minihane: Right. Right. Glenn Ordway: got along great with Jerry in the show. You became really tight friends. I used to see you together all the time. And but There was a real break between you and Dino and Jerry and Dino. And Dino talked about that the other day. I hope you heard the whole interview with Dino the other day. Kirk Minihane: I did. Yeah, I did. Mm-hmm. Glenn Ordway: But he thought it was very uncomfortable. He really had trouble dealing with it. And as he said, he had a year left in his contract and said, Screw you, I'm out of here. Kirk Minihane: Yeah. Well, yeah. So to go back, so like, yeah, we wound up beating Toucher and Rich in the during the Aaron Andrews book, which was twenty fourteen summer, which was madness. that was my first of like twenty six suspensions. but I kept getting bigger and bigger and bigger and getting more of a voice. And Jerry liked that, and John didn't. Like, truthfully, and I and I get that. Like I got like I remember Dino had done another podcast, I forget who it was with before even this one, where he kind of said the same thing. Like, I had no problem with Dino said last week. I don't think everything's exactly accurate. I'd love to come on with Dino with you, me and Dino together. I'd do that in two seconds. Glenn Ordway: I think I I think I would like to do a future one with all three of you. We get Callahan on here as well. I think that would be a great podcast, but go ahead. And then Kirk Minihane: Sure, thousand percent. Thousand percent. Yeah, I'm in for that. So but I get Glenn Ordway: we'll get Fred and Rich Shirtenleap together on another podcast. That'd be great. Kirk Minihane: Yeah. Yes. Sure. yeah, we'll AI Eddie and have Dale and Eddie as in in the podcast. But Glenn Ordway: Right. We could do that. Kirk Minihane: the but I get what John was saying fundamentally. I just disagree that like because John could be a pain in the ass too, but so could I, like a thousand percent. We were just completely diametrically opposite philosophically on how to do radio. That's it. His was Glenn Ordway: No question. Kirk Minihane: very successful for a long time. Mine was very, very successful for a short time. Maybe his is the right way to do it. But like we just is like John would start the show and say, the show today is brought to you by the letter C. And he'd list like three. And I'm like, that's not my show. Like the very that's not how I do it. But he would. He'd be like, the Celtics are rolling. The coach Glenn Ordway: Is that it hold on, is that like a Sesame Street reference? Is that what that is? Kirk Minihane: is a problem. And, you know, whatever. Chemistry is off the charts. And then like, but he was I'll say this about John. Like, I I would not have John could sell a joke like nobody's business. And like it didn't While we didn't like each other, it didn't bleed that much onto the air. It really didn't. Like we didn't talk off the air much. The last year or two was tough. But I think we were very similar, very different philosophically, radio eyes, but very similar. And then we're equally like pig headish. You know, we would not and I think that's where Jerry failed. And I think Dino has said this in other places. And he's right. I've thought about this. And I've tr I've tried to talk to Dino about this since we just haven't connected. I wish Jerry in retrospect, which is not an easy ask. had taken us out to dinner or sat us down and said, listen, like like John's done at this date. Like the two of you, let's sit down until we leave dinner, let's fucking figure out how to do this and bring it to the finish line. I didn't like personally that John started every day of the show by saying, I'm two hundred and eighty six days away from retirement. Like I thought it just sent a bad message to the audience. They could they were like, you know, so, but during all that, like I was fine with leaving the morning show. You know this. You and I Glenn Ordway: Mm-hmm. Kirk Minihane: had a dinner in Burlington with Kevin Graham and Phil Zacher. We talked about doing an afternoon show together. Like that so I mean I was Glenn Ordway: That's right. We were very close. You and I, we were very close to you and I doing afternoon drive because you had gone to management. You said, I don't want to do this morning show anymore. I want to do something different. Phil Zachary was attempting to bring bring me back to the station. and I had worked with him many, many years ago. And so to do it, he said, What if I put together Menahan and and Ordway? Now, I don't know, Kirk, if it would have ever worked. We really got along, but sometimes people that get along is not necessarily the best show, as you know. You know, it Yeah, that's that's true. Kirk Minihane: Right. And I think we're both out I think we're both alphas too. We both like to talk. And I think like I'm not sure I wanted to go I w I would have loved to worked with you, but I was like, do I want to go from John and Jerry to Glenn? Which is like different, but like the same era, the same Yeah. Yeah. And I wanted to do yeah. very, Glenn Ordway: Gener, it's a generational difference. Yeah. Yeah. But they were serious about doing it. Kirk Minihane: very serious, yeah. Glenn Ordway: Well, I wanted to bring up a a Kevin Graham. He was the program director. And this is a nice guy, by the way. They brought him from Kirk Minihane: Very nice game. Glenn Ordway: out of town. He had bounced around to a bunch of ESPN stations across the country. And you Kirk Minihane: Yeah, I have a yeah, I have a yeah. Glenn Ordway: can't do that in Boston. Boston is a very unique market. Philadelphia is a very unique market. You can't take some guy From some neutral market, bring him to Boston and say, okay, figure out the landscape and lay out the lineup. Okay. You can't do it. So you, and I gave you credit already, you and Jerry were trying to bring me back. Dino, Dino take, Dino takes Kirk Minihane: This is wild. This is this is this is yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. This is wild. Glenn Ordway: the time off now because he's going to rehab. All right. And so they needed to get somebody to fill in. And you and Jerry went to Zachary and said, perfect opportunity. You want to get Ordway back. Why don't you bring Ordway in to fill in Fredino? Okay. And so Phil Zachary did that, but Kevin Graham was totally against it. He was the program director. So what Zachary did is he went around Graham's back. It's a Monday morning now. I show up to do the show with these two guys. Nothing is promoted, nothing is announced in advance. Kirk Minihane: No, we want we want when we wanted it quiet. We were like, keep it quiet. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Go ahead. Glenn Ordway: Right. I just show up at 6 a.m. in the morning and the program director is on the phone with like Curtis or somebody saying, What the fuck is going on? How did he get in there? Who is it? And then and Kirk Minihane: Crazy, crazy, crazy. We were so proud we were go ahead. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Glenn Ordway: then he he talked to you guys after and they said, What's wrong with Ordwood? Do you have a problem? He's a shock jock. I don't want a shock jock. And I'm sitting there going, I'm a shock jock. What the fuck do you think Menahan is? What do you think? Kirk Minihane: My quote to my quote to Kevin was, Kevin, this guy is your wet dream. I was like, he loves sports, but he does have like a personality and he likes to break like he likes to break balls, have his balls broken. Glenn Ordway: Balls. Yeah. Kirk Minihane: But like he's not, he's not me. You know, he's not he like you like it, Kev, I will t my Kevin Graham story, a s a very nice guy. Like I get why some people didn't like like miscast, he bounced around, he was in like Topeka and what but his first day he came in. Came into the came into our office. He He came in for the interview and he had like the golly G. He's like, I was driving here. He's They drove me in off the airport. He's like, I looked up. He's I didn't know Harvard was here. And I was like, because no, you you drive right by Harvard from the airport to get to the station. And I was like, ooh, I think we got some prompts here. But he was not he was not meant for and he didn't understand like when shit would happen and he was here for crazy shit, like crazy shit. Me and Fourier, Aaron Andrews, like what you name it, it you know, whatever. He'd be he'd like get sort of like make it about like why are you guys doing this to me kind of thing. I'm like, Kevin, it doesn't work that way. Like you gotta jump on the grenade, buddy. Like you gotta, you gotta own it. And Phil was up and down, but like, Glenn Ordway: Joke. It's a Kirk Minihane: yeah, Kev, but so we had we had dinner that night. And again, the way I went to Phil, I was like, I don't think John is happy with me being here. I'm not happy doing a show with these guys the way it is. Like, I just want to do something else and make those guys happier. I never I I heard what Dino said last week. I want to make this clear. I never went into a meeting and said to Phil Zachary, like Whether like let's make sure John doesn't come back from rehab. Just intellect first of all, intellectually, I knew legally that would never doesn't work that way. You can't fire somebody when they're away at rehab. And I didn't really want that. Like I didn't want that's not how I wanted it to end. but John, I will say John's drinking like was tough during the weeks because he'd send crazy text messages and stuff like that. And a lot of it was funny. I mean, Dino could be very funny. And I and I look back when I saw Dino last week and he said he, you know, some of the shit that I did bother him. I completely get that. I'm at the point now where I have nothing but like Dino just makes I have good memories of Dino. It makes me laugh. I'm glad that I got to work with him. and I'll say this about John too. Like when his sister died, I forget how long ago that was. She was visually disabled, she was blind. And I went to his this is when John and I weren't getting along very well. I went to her funeral in Rhode Island. I don't know if anybody else was dead. I remember, but I was there. He gave a great eulogy, and like he was very like the stuff Dino, like he could be we Dino could be a mad. But like to his mom, to his sister, like John was like very good with stuff like that. So like to to me, like John may not like me, but I got I my memories of John overall are like are just so long ago. It's just like it's fine, it's good. I get where he's coming from. He was old and I was young, Glenn Ordway: So I have to Yeah. Kirk Minihane: you know. Glenn Ordway: So I have to ask you because he opened up about, you know, his alcoholic issues and whatever, but you had a producer, Chris Curtis, who has also admitted that he had major alcoholic problems. He now is doing a morning show with Greg Hill. He has gone from being the dumbest person on the station to now being one of the brightest people when I listened to him on Kirk Minihane: Yeah, what happened? Mm-hmm. Glenn Ordway: WEI. Right now, he was about a hundred pounds heavier than he is right now, but he admitted that he would drink every morning before the show. You guys would make fun of him about how dumb he was doing battle of the brainless. You matched him up with Mutt, and that was a whole bit. Kirk Minihane: How dumb are we? Yeah. he was he was he was no, he was sober then. Because that was earning Kirk and Callahan. We brought it back. Denison Callahan, he was drunk. And he would say it was because of Dino, but I'm sure it was because of me, too, to be very clear. But yeah, he was slurring and we're like, boy, are you dumb? And like, how stupid were we? We didn't know. I mean, yeah, I mean, I I don't listen to that show, obviously, now. I'm sure it's terrible. But yeah, it was we get and listen, like, I I'm sure Curtis will rip me, but like. I don't know. He reached out and I was like, Of course you can come back. You know, I I I think that stuff matters. Like I think to me it's always the big stuff that matters. Like, I'm sure you're I don't know if you remember this or not, but there was this thing where the producer, this guy, sausage and Curtis, they they put in like a good fellow's clip that had the F word in it a bunch of times, and we went feels like we're gonna fire him in general. Like, no, you're not, you're not gonna fire them. They're idiots. Like, don't fire them because they're stupid. Like, that's the stuff that matters. But man, there was always something. Like every week it was just something. Glenn Ordway: Yeah, but I don't I don't I don't think Curtis was ever stupid. He was drunk an awful lot of the time. And to his credit, you know, he worked at it. He battled those demons. He reached, like John had said, a low point. he talked about it. Curtis has was has been open about it. And he got his shit together. And I'm happy that he's got his shit together. And he seems like he he's very happy in life. But at that time it was amazing to me that you guys could never figure it out. Cause and I was in there for two or three weeks filling in as I said for for Dino and he was just kind of strange in the way he was dealing Kirk Minihane: Yeah, yeah. Glenn Ordway: with stuff and I didn't figure it out because I figured you guys would have known by right now right by now if he had an alcoholic issue, you know? Kirk Minihane: But he was always on top of stuff, like but he was on top of stuff. Like he was a producer for during Deflate Gate when he was hammered, but we'd book guests and he'd, you know, what we I forget if we did. Yeah, but but Glenn Ordway: He was good at that. He was really good at that. Kirk Minihane: like you would text him at eleven twenty-six and he'd text you back. It wasn't like he was, you know, gone for hours at the time. but yeah, it was it was crazy. But then we brought him back. So yeah, so John leaves, and there becomes this thing where, you know, Phil and Kevin are like, well, we want Mark Bertram. We want Chris Mannix the host. We want this and that. And I said, guys, like, there's only gonna be one person who hosts this show. There's only one that person is gonna be me. Like, I'm gonna sink or swim here. I'm not gonna be the third. I'm not gonna be a second or third guy and wait for Mark Bertrand or Chris Mannix to come in out of breaks to introduce Jeff Goodman as a guest. Like, I have a plan. We're gonna have rotating third people, as you know, and we're gonna make those people characters. Twitter's gonna become a big character on the show. We're gonna start doing outside. Like I have a and I've done it again on my show at Barstall. Like I want to create a world. And we did. And the ratings, which were getting a lot better it toward the end with John, really, really went up. I mean, we were doing Glenn Ordway: Yeah, they did. Kirk Minihane: 13s, 14s, 15s, like obviously we'll get to the what what ended that, but bang, bang, bang, bang, bang. And by like, you know, at the same time, both my parents are dying. I'm going through my mental stuff. But by the time you know, a a new character rolls in at the end of, you know, twenty sixteen, twenty seventeen. We're on top. We were number one two books in a row overall and adults. Twenty five twenty five fifth and adults, Kirk and Callahan. So like we were you know, we we were we were rolling. Glenn Ordway: And it was passing along to the rest of the station. Yeah. Station was taking off because you guys and the battles Kirk Minihane: Yeah, you guys were doing great and you know, once we w as long as we weren't as long as we weren't fighting in the hallway, we were yeah, we were fine. Glenn Ordway: that we were having on the air were productive for us because people weren't tuning out at 10 o'clock. They were continuing because now they wanted to hear what I was going to say after you called me, you know, every name in the book at 815. And it was it it was all working. Kirk Minihane: Right. Yeah, or yeah, right. Or yeah. Glenn Ordway: Then we had two incidents, okay? We had Alex Kirk Minihane: Go ahead. Glenn Ordway: Remer calling Tom Brady's daughter an annoying little piss ant. And then we Kirk Minihane: Yeah, he's probably right. Glenn Ordway: had and then we had the Christian Fourier incident Kirk Minihane: Yeah. Glenn Ordway: that we just mentioned. And so the station decided, we got a real problem. Yeah, we may be number one. Yeah, the ratings might be terrific, but we have a problem. And so we're gonna shut down the radio station on a Friday, the whole day, 6A to 6P, we're gonna shut the radio station down. And we're going send you guys to Sensitivity Training School. Okay. For it was a Friday. I Kirk Minihane: Was it on a fr was it a Friday? Is that right? Yeah. Yeah. Glenn Ordway: remember it is a Friday. And I will say this. This is the point after I was euphoric that the station was back. I Kirk Minihane: thousand percent. Glenn Ordway: was back in the business. I was feeling really good about myself, about my show, about the station. This is when I knew the end is near. Chris Olivero. Chris Olivero was the programming vice president for the company, Kirk Minihane: True worm. Glenn Ordway: Intercom at the time. He now runs the entire New York operation for Odyssey, Kirk Minihane: All need to know. Yeah. Yeah. Glenn Ordway: including Fan. He gets up there in front of us and he says, Guys, I want you to hear this and I want you to be clear about this. We would rather you guys finish fifth place with no controversy than finish first and have to deal. With controversy. You tell me Kirk Minihane: That's exactly right. Glenn Ordway: my reaction was we're done when he said that. What was yours? Kirk Minihane: Well, two, number one, if you remember in the meeting I said, Well, you know, I don't get then can I get my full bonuses then? Because I don't get bonus on staying out of trouble. You know. And my bonuses Glenn Ordway: Correct. I said no, no, no, no. Kirk Minihane: are number one, number two, you know, like and there were a lot of them. We had I had Providence bo you know how it is. So, I mean, there's a lot of money we're gonna give up so so Chris Oliveiro can be happy. Number two is we took a break during the this which ties into a story I've told a million times. We took a break, I don't know, two hours in or something. I went outside, I called Jerry. Jerry, if you remember, was in Florida like on like It's not Zoom, whatever that was back then. I Glenn Ordway: Yeah. Kirk Minihane: called Jerry and I told him, like, it's over. Like, it may not be over tomorrow. It may not be over in two months, but it's over. And then I texted somebody, I'm not I well, I guess it's been long enough now. I'll just say he's my boss now. And I said to him, like, I'm Glenn Ordway: important. Kirk Minihane: yeah, I'm probably gonna be there sooner rather than later. Just, you know, a heads up. then I went back in the meeting. That's when you were famously talking to the to the female lady and you were telling her how it took how it took long for the go to go from FM to AM. The woman who was giving you remember this or you the woman who the woman who lined up th she was like, Hey, just so you know, like, you guys can't say shithead or fuck on the air. Like you can't make fun of Steve Gleason. Remember this? And I'm like Glenn Ordway: Well, she asked the d you may remember she asked the question and I brought up the FMAM thing 'cause I wanted her to know that's a much bigger issue than anything we're talking about here. She actually Kirk Minihane: Right. Well yeah. Glenn Ordway: said to me, What do you say on the air when you're talking about a Somalian? And I'm sitting there going, I don't think I ever have talk about a Somalian. I mean, is there a Somalian Kirk Minihane: What what's this it was just it was so stupid. Glenn Ordway: football player or a baseball player? I don't think I ever have done that before doing a show. I mean, it was so bizarre. Kirk Minihane: And then opened up to the it was it's wild. Then it opened up to like questions or whatever. And you and and Lou were were fine. But everybody else was basically like, let's time to ear grievances with an asshole Kirk Minahan is. It was like everybody, like persona Glenn Ordway: They did, they did. Kirk Minihane: and I was like, guys, I I don't it foray was like, listen. Yeah. Itfore Glenn Ordway: What happened to the sensitivity? Kirk Minihane: was like, Fore's like, I don't even like he's like, he's like, I think we should just worry about, you know, getting fo I'm like, it's your fucking fault we're here, dummy. You're the one that did the Don Yee impression. So And he's like, No, it's your fault 'cause you Glenn Ordway: So you got into it, no, you got into it with not just Dale and Holly, but Keith as well, because he was part of their show now. John Tomasi. Kirk Minihane: Keith as well. And John Tomasi. John Tomasi like, I John Tomasi's like, I I tell my friends I'm embarrassed to work. But get the fuck out of here then. Like, this is a sense of what do we say? It's not so the meeting ended. Well I'm sure we'll go Glenn Ordway: He was. He was embarrassed. Kirk Minihane: back to it. The meeting ended and Ken and Chris were there and and we went to the Kurt and Callahan office there in the back. And I was like, guys, I was like, we're we'll try and do like what they're asking the best we can for a while. Like I don't really that was one of those times where Jerry didn't a voice either. You know, he you'd lose his voice and We went down to spring training. It was the week after, right? Because yeah, it was that makes sense, right? Right around then? Sensitivity training, but yeah. Glenn Ordway: I think so, yeah. Yeah. Kirk Minihane: We started the show on Monday. We just had sensitivity training. Jerry had no voice. And I was sitting there at Ford Myers looking at Doug Lane, writing notes for jokes to tell me. And I was like, it's fucking over. I'm like, we built this. I built this thing. Like, you guys built the real thing. It was in the shitter. I came back and kickstarted the second thing. Yeah, we everyone was. Glenn Ordway: He rebuilt it. You helped rebuild it. There's no question about it. Kirk Minihane: Everyone was rolling. I'm like, it's fucking and when you and I would just text each other like, It's over. Like it's and you know. And that was Before Murchison, right? Or no, during? I guess during. I don't even know. Glenn Ordway: I think it was before Murchison hadn't that that I don't think had hit quite yet. yeah. I wanna get to l let let's get to the Murchison Kirk Minihane: Okay. Yeah, I don't remember, but yeah. But I mean it was like yeah. Glenn Ordway: thing because that really was the final nails on the coffin. Would you agree for the station? No question. Yeah, no question certainly was Kirk Minihane: Yeah. yeah, a thousand percent. Yeah. I was Glenn Ordway: for you. And then once you went, you mentioned it earlier about when I was out fired and you had to fill in, everybody was all pissed off. That I was fired and the big show was gone or whatever. Well, the same thing happened when you left and then when Callahan left, and that's the problem with the station. The brand is gone. I laughed that they call it Boston's original. Well, it's that's what they brand the station right now, which makes no sense because Kirk Minihane: Yeah, it's easy. I mean I mean, yeah, it's no sense. Glenn Ordway: none of us are there. They don't even play clips of us on 9-11. Greg Hill was playing clips from AAF from 9-11. So There's no looking back at the past. Kirk Minihane: I'm like, yeah. I'm like I'm like Chris Benoit. Like I've been wiped out from the from the stations, like just their page entirely, which is fine. But the Mercer thing, I remember I was playing golf with my brother Ryan, and I was done with the round. I was putting my shoes, changing in the putting my shoes on or something. There was an email from Phil Zachary, and he was saying, Hey, this is a guy who's reached out a couple of times some advertisers. Not a big deal, but maybe we should, you know, nip it in the bud or something. I'm like, I didn't pay back that, I was like, just whatever. I have no fucking idea what's going on. And it just blew up. He was very good at it. He was a hell of an activist, Murchison. We wound up meeting with him one day in this. I'm sure you remember this at the station. It was me, Jerry, Murchison, Phil. Joey's Arbana, the program director. And for some reason, Phil brought Alex Reimer. I think Phil was like, well, I know, but Glenn Ordway: Why do you think he brought Alex Schremer in? Kirk Minihane: like, like, because he's gay. This guy's trans. I'm like, that doesn't, there's yeah, but there's no. Glenn Ordway: Yeah, that's what he did. He brought him in yeah, 'cause he thought maybe Murchison would be more sympathetic to Alex Freemer. You're right, it makes no sense. Alex Freemer's Kirk Minihane: I guess no sense. And then Glenn Ordway: not making any decisions at the station. But that you know. Kirk Minihane: Immerson was like Immerson's like, I have a problem with this. We made some jokes about transgender people, whatever, and Immerson had a heart on for it and he worked with the globe. Glenn Ordway: No, I think wait a minute, I think wasn't it about a four year old child where you guys were basically Kirk Minihane: Well that was the first one. Glenn Ordway: saying you you can't transition a four year old kid, right? Wasn't that what we're Kirk Minihane: Yes. Well, yes, but also the look to be fair, there was also that Jeffrey Tambor showed Transparent, where I said on the air, I was like, if I masturbate to him on Transparent, am I homosexual? He was transgendered. also, who Glenn Ordway: Okay. All right. Yeah. Kirk Minihane: fucking cares? But they work with the globe. But so we were in the meeting and we were not making I could tell like whatever. He was fine. I could tell he'd done this five million times to five million different places. He's a career activist. And Phil was getting really mad. Phil could go from zero to five hundred and in in and and Mercent's like, Well, my son, I forg I forget if it's a tra I forget if it's a daughter, I f that I forget. My child or whatever. And Phil was like, Well, if your son and any balls maybe be up here right now. And Mercil storms out of there. And I'm like, Phil, what the fuck? So, so we went up talking. Jerry and I both talked to Merchant on the phone that day. I remember talking to to Merson, driving back home, going right past Alwife, jumping on Route Two, and saying, Bob, like, I don't agree with you, whatever. Give me 48 hours to just let things settle down and then we'll try and figure this out. And they were doing, if you remember they were doing ads, free ads for trans, like all this stuff. Merce is like, sure, no problem. I understand. Okay, hangs up the phone. I get a call like an hour later from one of the salespeople. Like, he's like, he's already contacting people. So I was like, well, we're done. Like we're like, I'm not. And it just kept going. And this is not Bob Merson's fault. It's not Kirk Minahan, Jerry Callahan, Phil Zachary. This is 100% David Field's fault. For not saying fuck off. Like I have a boss now. Merchants started with I when this show started and they were just like, at first they kind of tried to, and then they were like, just go fuck yourself. Like, go get the fuck out. And if you remember, local advertisers, Milton's Kaplansky, all of them were like, go it was the national ones. It was like Wendy's and O'Reilly. They don't know. They get ninety seven thousand emails from some guy. They're like, I thought this was a sports show. What the fuck is go put it somewhere else? Glenn Ordway: Well well the other the other thing, yeah. Well the other thing is he got Shirley Long of the Boston Globe involved, as you know, and who not really a journalist. She's she's an activist disguising Kirk Minihane: Activist, yeah. Glenn Ordway: herself as a journalist. And she was out there doing the same thing. She was basically letting these advertisers know, because you're right. The ad most of the national advertisers had no idea what you guys were saying on the air in Boston. Okay. They're looking at the numbers. They're buying by by your ratings. Now suddenly she's making them aware of this is what's going on in Boston. And that put it up a couple notches. She became his buddy, Murchison's you know, partner in crime, if you will. Kirk Minihane: Yeah. Yeah. But she told me I talked on the phone, she told me that. And she said she didn't like what we had done to Kevin Cullen. So like this long globe Yeah, just expose him for the marathon stuff, you know. And and this is a long Yeah, no, I made up. Yeah. Yeah, all the you know, Glenn Ordway: Yeah, you ripped Cullen on right, 'cause he plagiarized or he no, he create he said he was there and he wasn't there, right? Yeah. Kirk Minihane: but this goes way back to you guys. This is this long globe EI. But now I'm sure the EI and Globe get along fine, I I would suspect, right? I'm right. Again, can't imagine any issues now with like Rich Short and Leib in the Globe, so But yeah, so when Mer when Merchant won and you know Jerry fought, he tried. Like I would go I want to leave for mental health. Then they wouldn't put me back on the air. We had a ton of meetings. And essentially they wanted me to sign a piece of paper that was like, you won't do this, this, this, this, and this. I said, I'm not doing it. Like it doesn't make any sense. and then I left. And then I'm not saying this like the ratings plummeted. A, because I'm good on the air, and B, by me leaving and them letting me leave, it sent a signal to the audience like we're pussies. Like we're just pussies. We're gonna let these guys walk all over us. And the station never recovered. Like it just not really, you know, and that's kind of where it is now. Glenn Ordway: W wh when did you have the episode where you were depressed and I think it had a lot to do with the Murchison thing, if I remember correctly, and you were contemplating suicide. You walked along the train tracks. When did that happen? Kirk Minihane: Wedgemir train station. So I went yeah, so it was started really started when my parents were depression when my parents you know were sick. They both died about six weeks apart in twenty seventeen. And then I had a crazy suspension in twenty seventeen. I I'm sure you remember the Red Sox thing where I went nuts on the Red Sox for that stupid story that the the thing was. And then I got suspended. I screamed at Phil Zachary on the phone. While I was suspended, I remember Harry was in the backseat, we're going to the basketball hall of fame, and Tim Murphy had told me Mark Hannon was taking over for Phil, I like, this is why Mark Hannon's taking over for you. Phil went nuts. I was just crazy. but yeah, I started thinking about that. I had a lot of suicidal ideations and thoughts and planning out getting hit by a train at Wedgmere Station. that was 2018. I took a leave. I went away. I went to McLean. came back ready to work. I had taken and I and that's and then I came back a little bit worked, and I had an incident with Brady on the radio about Alex Guerrero, where Brady hung up on us, and which was a miscommunication. But I went in Joey's office. I was like, I'm not helping you, I'm not helping you guys on making things worse. I'm gonna take a leave. and they're like, Great, when you're ready to come back, just let us know. And I was like, I'm ready to come back, and they would not let me go back on the air. And I wasn't I think I came back for a final show I did with Jerry and and Mutt. But it was Glenn Ordway: You did. Kirk Minihane: over. It was over at that point. And and I was public about it. was like, look, these, you know, and I was you were very nice when you left. I was like, fuck these guys, like, you know, go fuck themselves. But yeah, that was twenty eighteen four they had that weird thing with radio dot com. It was bullshit. But that was done done really in like the summer of twenty eighteen. So it's been eight years, I mean. Glenn Ordway: Yeah, I and the weird thing about it is I think you kind of had something over on them because it was constantly mentioned that, hey, he's got a mental illness problem right now. This is a serious issue. You're gonna eventually have to let him back. You can't just dismiss the guy because of mental illness. And so then I've gotta I've gotta give it to them. They totally lied to you. They played you, they played you. Kirk Minihane: Totally. Well, no, well, well, well, hold on. I knew there was a good chance they were lying to me because they're liars. Like it was Field and and Tim Murphy and the like but but what they did was they said, Hey, there's this radio.com platform. We're gonna try it. We're gonna let you run a station. It's your you can program everything. And I'm like, Great, okay. But there was part of me that knew these are bullshit artists, but they guarantee me because I was like, I g I had just signed a crazy deal and I was like, Well, I have this deal. I said, I'll do it if you guarantee me first place bonuses for every book throughout the rest of the deal. And they were like, sure. So I was like, Okay. And Mike D, another creep loser, was in charge of it. And they were just like, and one day I had lunch with him and he said to me, He's like, Well, I know you say you don't want to do sports at all, but he's like, I think it should be some sports. And I was like, Well, this also is not gonna work. So then next thing you know, I'm rolling around the ground at Barnes and Noble, getting out of my contract and and you know I I think Dave Portner was aware that I was looking at some point to leave him sound parcel. But like I will say like the relationships I had at EI with a lot of personalities, I wish I'd handled it better with a lot of them in some ways. In some ways it was their fault too. But from a management perspective, they sucked. Like I have no Tim Murphy sucked, David Field sucked. Phil was okay, but he was gone at that point. Hammond is a nice guy, but he's just a he's a wet rag. He has no balls. He's just playing out the clock. So he didn't know what to do with me. it made their lives easier without me. Like, Glenn, they were talking about me doing my radio dot com show. Like, they were gonna lease out a r like area at Howie Car Studio so I wouldn't be in the building with these people. This is a like it's crazy. Glenn Ordway: I I told you this at okay, I told you this at the time. So I'm sure you recall within Kirk Minihane: you did. You did. Thousand percent you did. Yeah. Glenn Ordway: a month after they started talking about a radio.com you know platform, I said to you, They're bullshitting you. What they're doing is they're going and they were paying you a lot of money. You're correct about that. They were paying you a lot of money so they could push merchants away, they could push the globe away, they could push the Red Sox away. It was ransom money, Kirk. They were paying you to keep you off the air. You went five months where you were supposedly going to be the new host of this radio dot com channel. Who was your producer? Where was your studio? What tell me then they never had any of that, did they? Kirk Minihane: nothing. My my producer was Dave my my producer was Dave Colin for one day. I I had nothing. I was getting a check every two weeks for like fifty eight thousand dollars or something. And yeah. But the problem was I couldn't but Glenn Ordway: They paid you to stay off the air. That's what they did. Kirk Minihane: the problem is I'm so nuts. I should have just done it. I had four years left. Glenn Ordway: You should have. Kirk Minihane: You know, I'm stupid. I was getting s insane money to do nothing. Every other Friday I would look, Glenn Ordway: You should have. Kirk Minihane: I'd be like, that's fifty and then sometimes a bonus I'd like, that's ninety six thousand. What the fuck is going on here? Glenn Ordway: Ja, but think about this. Kirk Minihane: But but I could but I but you know you're right, but but yeah, you you just it's yeah, it's just it's just crazy. But at some point, I was like, Yeah, this just isn't I I I I miss doing it like I do now. Like I stopped doing my show for a bit, I'll do it again. But I was like, I miss being on the air, I miss talking and I and I don't like the idea, right, to your point. Glenn Ordway: Yeah. Tell me about it. Yeah. Kirk Minihane: Yeah, right. I don't like the idea that I'm being kept down. Like they're like, you know, but at the same time totally, completely. Glenn Ordway: they had you in a cage, you know, and I I'm and you talk about the money, and it was a lot of money, you're correct. It was nothing compared to what they were afraid they were going to lose in broadcasting. Because you're right, Kirk Minihane: exactly right. Glenn Ordway: they had no balls. They looked at it and said, we're gonna lose all of this advertising, this merchantson, Shirley Lewong, the Boston Globe, they're gonna kill us. The Red Sox are a real problem. Just keep him in a cage. Pay him whatever. Just keep his mouth shut. Kirk Minihane: So true. But conversely, Jerry would say to me, I told you, I told you. But I was saying to him, like, Jerry, just so you know, just as I'm getting bored and I want to do something work again, Murchison will get bored too. So, like, yeah, you guys think you placated Murchison by giving him my scalp? No fucking way. Like, because the truth is, and like Murchison's an asshole. Like, I I'll support Jerry in that battle all day. But Murchison's philosophical differences are way more with Jerry than with me. So Like he then started going just going after Jerry. And then they got rid of Jerry because they were like, Well, we can't put up with this. Cause and then Murchison was, I think, finally the like wasn't he go after Mutt's fucking, you know, 14 D Ui 14 DUIs? Yeah, Glenn Ordway: He went after you on Barstool. He went after you on Barstool, right? Kirk Minihane: but yeah, because I have but once Jerry was gone and I was gone, like what was he gonna go after go after the EI? Dale? Like, you know, he so we I will say this about Murchison. You can say what you want about the guy. He killed EI, he set out to do something. Glenn Ordway: Yeah, yep. Yep. Yep. Kirk Minihane: Give him credit. He was disciplined. He would sit this. He told us he told the story to the loser from Boston Magazine. He would get up at eight, six in the morning, he'd record the show. He'd be sitting there typing his notes. And he would send email after email. We've seen them. Email after email after email. Like, how can you work with these guys? Like it was the perfect, and it was also the perfect time in history when things were craziest. So it was just a perfect marriage. It was a disaster. And Mercer executed flawlessly. Glenn Ordway: You already alluded to it, but they had put you in the the cage, so you weren't talking or saying anything, and you were really getting pissed. And one day out of nowhere, you pop up you did two of One was in the Barnes and Noble and one was at the CVS. You did Kirk Minihane: C V S and Lexington. Glenn Ordway: a Periscope Live, if everybody remembers Periscope Live, and you're walking up and down Kirk Minihane: Yep. Tommy Curran taught Tommy how to do it. Glenn Ordway: the aisles at the Barnes and Noble, basically threatening Intercom. And saying, You can't keep me in a cage, you can't do this to me. Where did you come up with that idea? Kirk Minihane: You can't pay me millions of dollars. You can't pay me millions of dollars not to work. You cannot do that. I w Kirk Minahan will not allow that. I was nuts. I was I was I was just so bored, Glenn. You I I have things I'm always wanting to do. Like I was so fucking bored. You know what it's like. You're just bored. And I was like, I can't do this anymore. I was like, I knew I had options. I knew I didn't want to do radio anymore. So but I knew I think I knew what I wanted to do. So I was like, I'll just do this. I I was started a per I did some periscoping of the Super Bowl. I was nuts. Entercom sent me the Super Bowl, which was insane. I was doing Barstool stuff that week. I was going to a fight with Steve D'Aussi at that Super Bowl. Glenn Ordway: I do remember that. What how'd that start? Kirk Minihane: Cause I was crazy. I was nuts. I was so I I went to Radio Row and I saw the old show Together and like I like snapped. I was like, fuck this. Like Jerry was there. And it's not their fault. And D'Aussi was there, and you know Steve way better than I do. Steve's a great guy. He's like literally the night and he was literally like Kirk, like Glenn Ordway: Greatest guy in the world. Mile mannered. Kirk Minihane: he was literally like Kirk, calm the fuck down. Like I was like, fuck you. He's like, I'll break you in half. I'm like, fuck And I saw him later and he's yo, I'm like, nah, I apologize. Glenn Ordway: He would've. He would've, by the way. Kirk Minihane: He's like, my God, he was killed me. But he's like I I apologize to McCoy. He's like the nicest guy of all time. But I'm not afraid to challenge NFL players. You know that. Glenn Ordway: No, you're not. Christian Fourier in the hallway. How did that start? There was in between the two shows. We were coming Kirk Minihane: That was Fourier's fault. Glenn Ordway: into the studio, you were coming out. What happened there? Kirk Minihane: Yeah. That was Fourier's fault. Cause i I'll own it when it's my fault. That one was fault. I made fun of Fourier all the time on the radio and Fourier was new to it. And he would say that like I c he's be I'll I can kick your ass. I'm like, I know, but like we're not this is not a boxing or wrestling show. This is we talk. So you have to be able to come back that way. And he was new to it. And he came in during the break, during the cross, and he was mad. And then he was like this far away from me after like w as I was walking, he was like walking and I was like, Well, do you wanna like what are we doing here? Then it just blew up in this huge altercation, and we both got suspended. and I will say Glenn Ordway: we had the the other we had to separate the two of you in the hallway 'cause you were you were literally going at it physically. Yeah. Kirk Minihane: Well Forey was b Forey was Forey was yeah, Forey was begging. He was begging to be you know, 'cause he knew the ass kicking he was gonna get. So so Glenn Ordway: Yeah, exactly. Well but do you understand we talked about it earlier. I could take all the shit that you threw at me because I knew it was your shtick. It was what you were trying to do. This is your identity. And I didn't give a shit because I could, you know, I'm a big mouth too, I'm an alpha, as you said, and I can throw it right back at you. Fourier was coming in from football where they all hug each other in the in the in the locker rooms and stuff. He had no idea what this was all about. Do you understand that? Kirk Minihane: No, no idea. He hated yo, sure, but we're also doing a show. Like I I can't worry about that. Well put it this way, my audience doesn't give a fuck about that. You know? Like I get when the show ends that I get to deal with that. But when the show when we're on the air and the red lights on, I'm not like, boy, Christian's gonna be so you know. And he hated that we had that audio of you guys that Paul Chartier gave of you guys saying you wanted to do the afternoon shows. Remember we got remember we got we played it on our show? Which I said the foray, I was like, what midday show doesn't want to go to it? If you guys had said we should do the mornings, I'd be like, I get it. It's a drive time. Of course they want to do that. Like, I thought was funny. Yeah, I just thought it was I Glenn Ordway: Good tease too. It's good tease. Kirk Minihane: just thought it was funny. I didn't, you I didn't think it was bad. But that's that was the story of my life there. People would just go fucking, you know. Yeah. It seems like when I look back on it, I'm the one person who's involved in all of it. So maybe I was partially a fault. I don't know. Maybe. I get I gotta think about that. I gotta give it some some. I remember after the four. Glenn Ordway: you think? you think? Boy. It's taken you all these years to kind of figure it all out. But it's worked for you in your career. See? So, Kirk Minihane: Yeah. Yeah, and four yeah. Yeah. Glenn Ordway: and and as long as you're you're good, and you the times I've talked to you here recently, you really sound like you're grounded, you're good, you're having fun Kirk Minihane: I feel great. Yeah. Yeah. Glenn Ordway: doing what you're doing. You know, you're doing the deep dive now, which I think is an interesting, you know, concept. Yeah, I do. Where you talk about different actors and stuff like that. Kirk Minihane: Yeah. I love it. Yeah. True crime stuff, the K Km yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Glenn Ordway: So you're good, but yeah, I think if you look back, you pissed off a lot of people. Kirk Minihane: It crazy. A lot of people and a lot of people who hate me, I completely understand. I have no and as I get older, like I said, from Dino's perspective, I get it. But it's like, you know, when I was there, I had my thing. But but yeah, it's over. And I I wish you know, I like professionally if I could have some some mulligan, sure there are some, but like, man, I just felt like we got the merchant thing and the globes. I just like there was just forces against us that were tough to tough to battle with top and I don't really know quite know why but we fought with everybody man fought with Brady with Marty Walsh with Michelle with with with Charlie Baker. We had I mean that's what like that's where like I was crazy. We'd have Charlie Baker in for the Jimmy Fund. I'd be yelling at him about the judge for the Jared Remy trial. It's like what the what the fucker what the he's like are we aren't we here for the Jimmy Fund. I was like I don't fucking know who knows but but yeah I enjoy and I was very lucky you know I was lucky to start with John and Jerry and and I love my you know I mean, I grew up listening to you guys. I said this to you before. I got I was trying to remember what year it was when you and Johnny would do those I've told you this before, those birthday records. Yeah, yeah. I got one when I was in Glenn Ordway: Fantasy tapes. So we would have a fan be the star of the Celtics and do like the last four minutes of the game. Yeah. Kirk Minihane: Right. Bird, bird kicks it over to you know, to Ainge who swings it over and posts up. Yeah, that that I got that from my mom. I forget what year that would have been. But yeah, I mean, I've listened to you guys. Yeah, I told you that before. Yeah. Yes. Glenn Ordway: Yep. Yep. Did you really? You got one of those. Where is it? Kirk Minihane: I don't know. I don't know. I think we buried it with my I think we buried it with my mom, I think. Yeah, I think it's yeah, that that was the most important. Yeah. She said Glenn Ordway: I would love to. really? It was that valuable that one that big Kirk Minihane: she said, I want she said, I want a part of Glenn with me when I die. I thought that's strange, but okay. Yeah. Glenn Ordway: I did get to meet your mother, never met your father, met your mother, and that had Kirk Minihane: the Jimmy Fund, yeah. Glenn Ordway: to be such a difficult period because not only do you lose your dad, but now shortly after that, your mom is not only sick, but she has the exact same thing that he had pancreatic cancer, which we all know there's no cure for it. It's the worst cancer you can get. So I I I can only imagine what you were going through during that period of time a and then you get the volatility of all of this other shit that's going on at the radio station. Kirk Minihane: Yeah, and I just didn't handle it well. I handled it badly back then. And like I you know, I wish and Jerry was great on the air. Kirk and Gallan show I thought was great for when it lasted, but Jerry was not the kind of guy who was like, we should probably slow down and look at where we're at mentally, right? Like he w every day with us was a was Zarbano would come in for a weekly. He'd come in what what we'd get weeklies, what? Tuesday? Is that right? Yeah. Wednesday. Yeah. Glenn Ordway: Yeah, usually Wednesday, yeah. Kirk Minihane: So the next morning he'd come in and they'd Okay, you got Glenn Ordway: Weekly ratings, that's what he's talking about. Yeah. Kirk Minihane: Yeah, it was I'm sorry, weekly ratings. And Joey would be like, You guys got a 12-6 and Tartarin Rich got a 12-4. They a 12-8 and you got 11-6. But then they would start breaking it down quarter by quarter hour by quarter hour. And Joey would say, You guys had a 6 6 during this quarter hour. Why? And I'd be like, how the fuck do I know? I don't even know what was Maybe we did maybe we had two commercials. Maybe it was snowing that day. Maybe the guy with the meter was had a cold. I don't know. But I would say to him, like, what did Dale do? And he'd, what did we do? You did the 12.8. What did Dale do? He did a 6'4. Well, you talking to him like this? No. Well, why are you talking to us like that? Talk to them and tell them to do what we're doing. But but remember Dale at the sensitivity training was just like that was like Dale's show every day with the sensitivity training people wanted. That's not even bad thing. And that's the thing. I think I kept trying to pressure people to do shows like I did. And it's like, well, Dale doesn't want to do that kind of show. You know? Glenn Ordway: Yeah, there were all sorts of problems as far as management. Most of them emanated, you mentioned earlier the CEO David Field. Most of them really came out of Philadelphia in corporate. They were making all of the decisions. You brought up this guy, Tim Murphy, earlier, and I know you had your problems with him. So Tim Murphy was the guy that convinced you We're gonna do this radio.com and it's gonna take off and it's gonna be great. When really he was lying to you all the time. They were gonna pay you, keep you in a cage, and keep you off the air. So I get fired in February 2013. Why? I I was second in the ratings and I had fallen like five points behind Felger in the ratings. Now, second, mind you, albeit five points behind him. Right now, you know, they're lucky if they're ninth, tenth, or eleventh, okay? And and nobody's getting fired over there at the place now. So, Kirk Minihane: Sometimes they're some weeklies are fifteen or sixteen points, man. Yeah. Well, they're making no money, yeah. Glenn Ordway: right, so they finally and that was the difference. I was making big money and I obviously wasn't worth those ratings to them any longer at that money. So they fire me. And Tim Murphy, who I just explained what he did to you, on a Wednesday, Wolfie, not Jeff Brown. Gutless general manager, he was. He was just useless. Kirk Minihane: Worst. Glenn Ordway: Worst piece of shit I've ever worked for in my life. Ever. Kirk Minihane: Ever an and any job. Yeah. Glenn Ordway: It was Jason Wolf, who had nothing to do with firing me, but he had to deliver the news. So he delivers the news to me and then says, Listen, we'll handle it any way you want to handle it. If you'd like to finish out the week, we're not going to say anything. You know, this was a Tuesday night. I take it back. Tuesday night. So we won't say anything. Wednesday you go on the air, Thursday you go on the air, Friday, two o'clock, you come out, you make the announcement, you can say whatever you want. You can say the company screwed you, the company fired you. And I said, okay, pretty good conditions. If I'm going to get fired. By the way, I had a year left in my contract, that big contract we talked about, plus severance pay. So by the time Mike Salt got fired, they were still, I was still on the payroll. Kirk Minihane: You're still getting paid. Right. Right. Glenn Ordway: They were still paying me after he was fired. So It turns out Thursday morning or Wednesday night, I get a call from Chad Finn. And Chad Finn basically said, I've heard you got fired. And I don't even think I responded to him. I can't even remember. I think I did respond to him on Thursday morning. He blew it up in the newspaper immediately, okay, the next day on Thursday. So I never got the chance to do it. And guess who told him? I later found out, years later, Kirk Minihane: Well that night even on social media, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Tim for sure. Glenn Ordway: it was Tim Murphy. Kirk Minihane: Thousand percent. Glenn Ordway: So he's working in the corporate office of Entercom, and you're gonna screw your own station. You look like a fool by calling the Boston Globe and saying, Hey, we're gonna fire this guy on Friday. So here it is. Give it here's the the story for you for for your paper. So so much of the stuff was coming out of corporate, as you know, that just Kirk Minihane: Well Yeah. Same thing happened. Same thing happened six years, whatever seven years, six or seven years later. It was during, I think Alex was doing like a night show or something when it was announced a Globe got that I was leaving the show and going to radio.com. If remember, they were you can't talk about it. They told Remer you couldn't talk about it. They told like I think you guys. They were like, You think you can't talk about Kirk leaving. And then I went on Richard Dijk just podcast and announced it was on there before it was on the station. I was on that show before. I was like, fuck And Tim was behind that. He's like, go on that one if you want. I don't care. I was like, good, fuck the morning show. I don't care. But yeah, they didn't, they they just couldn't. And I don't know why. Like, I don't like look, you want to get rid of me? I'm an asshole. You want get rid of you. You're making a lot. I understand that. That's life. That's the business. But just Glenn Ordway: I agree. Kirk Minihane: be honest. Like, just say, this is why we're doing it. Like, this is you know, I th I think, you know, there are always reasons why, you know, I think pairing you with Holly was a mistake. You know, I think the big show, they should have just let the big show be the big show and figure it out. then they made mistakes of me and I made mistakes, but like, yeah, this whole thing where it's like they're just fucking in in I don't know who's running it now. I I hope it's better for the people there, but oof, it was and you know, they were just yeah, it was just it it was it was Glenn Ordway: Well, I think they were also they were also more convinced as they brought new program directors in from out of town, they were more convinced than ever that the solution is let's get everybody to get along with each other on the floor. They were more interested in that than Kirk Minihane: Yeah cares, yeah. Glenn Ordway: they were in putting really good, you know, content on the radio. Let me ask you this because I mentioned it earlier. I I thought you and Jerry, when you were doing the show together, especially after Dino had left. You guys had a great relationship and that you were really on the same page through Kirk Minihane: Yeah. We're yeah, we're Glenn Ordway: most of that until maybe the end. What has happened to the relationship with you and Jerry Callahan since then? Kirk Minihane: Well, think I didn't handle it well when Jerry came out. you know, when Jerry announced he was gay, I I had a tough time with that. So you know, y yeah. Yay. Well you probably you probably mute them on Twitter like everyone else has. So you probably missed it. Glenn Ordway: I I don't remember that. Was that in the globe? I mu I might have missed it. I Kirk Minihane: well, I think it again with me, it's like it's Jerry and I were so you know this. We were so close. We were best friends. I mean, we talked after my Glenn Ordway: Close. Yes you were. You were you were inseparable. Kirk Minihane: After both my parents died, he's the first person I called. After his parents, I was the first person he called after our families. You know, we played golf together. We we we went out to dinner together. We were really and we would because we were so it Glenn Ordway: Inseparable. Kirk Minihane: we were in so into the show. We would text or call during the show weeks like 15 times a day, like, hey, how about this? This is good, you hear this, but you know how fucking stupid this thing was or whatever. Yeah. Yeah. Glenn Ordway: That's why it worked, Kirk. That's why it worked. You guys were both totally committed to that show. Kirk Minihane: Yeah. Too much, I think. And I think we when it when it got separated the way it did, it was such an ugly divorce. And it wasn't our fault, but we got both got mad at each other and invented ways of and we just we'll talk a little bit. Then I'll get mad at something he does, or he'll get mad at something I do. And we don't talk. We've been texting after this Dino thing we texted a few times. Maybe it'll bring us back together. but yeah, it's sh with you. The thing, yeah, yeah, yeah. Glenn Ordway: So since since what Dino then? The Dino really? So you you and you and Callahan have finally connected a little bit? Kirk Minihane: Yeah. It's funny. I was I did a live show in Maine last summer and I was taking pictures of people and this woman came up to and she said, I saw Jerry today and told him where I was going. And Jerry said, Say hi to Kirk for me. And I thought, well, that's something. And look, Jerry's like a big brother to my, you know, like and like usually my brothers, I don't talk to them. But I do miss like having Jerry in my life. And I wish it could be because we we, you know, we had a a shared, you know what it's like? There's a shared bond there and like a There's things we can joke about that we can't joke about anybody else. And I miss that. And I hope we bring it back. he said something on one of his podcasts about kids who are adopted and my daughter's adopted. And I weigh over I took it way too personally. And like, so, you know, and I Jerry knows my daughter and loves my daughter. So it's like stupid that I get worked up. I love the guy. Hmm. Glenn Ordway: I yeah. I remember that. Kirk Minihane: Yeah, and I get worked up and I and I get defensive. My kid, I get defensive. but I yeah, as I get older, I'm like, I just want to be f like. I would love to sit down and have lunch with Dino and just laugh and be like how could we we were so fucking stupid and Jerry too and Glenn Ordway: So why don't wh why don't I try to do that? Why don't I try to get all three of you guys back together again? Kirk Minihane: Well, said lunch gland, not for your personal YouTube Well, no, but you're just doing it for clicks. You're a you're you're Glenn Ordway: I'm not into food anymore. I'm trying to lose weight. Jesus. You know, I don't want to be fat I don't want to be fat when I'm eighty, you know. Kirk Minihane: you're a click whore. You're just doing it for clicks. Not for not for you're you're like me. Glenn Ordway: Yeah, that's all. Kirk Minihane: We've got you know, sure. I would do of course I would do it, John. I would do it with that would do it with anybody. There's nobody I wouldn't do with. I would, but I would love, yeah, I would love. I actually think Glenn Ordway: Good. Good. Kirk Minihane: John and Jerry, I would do with them in a second. I was not invited to any barbecue, by the way, for the record. But but Jerry. Glenn Ordway: October they're having a big party at at Dino's house. I think Jerry's invited. You haven't got the invitation yet? might have got might have got lost somewhere in the digital world. Kirk Minihane: I know, I know. I was also not vibed here hall I was also I was on also not vibe year I was also not Vibe deer Hall of Fame thing. Glenn Ordway: What's that again? Kirk Minihane: I wasn't invited to your Hall of Fame thing. Glenn Ordway: You were on the list, you should have been invited. Kirk Minihane: What list? I wasn't invited. Glenn Ordway: No, a a list that I told people to contact people. Well, Kirk Minihane: All right. I want to see that list. Glenn Ordway: you could have come on your own. You didn't have to an invitation. It's a an open thing where you just walk in. I'll c Kirk Minihane: I like I like to be invited. I like to b I was I w if Pebbles is Glenn Ordway: I'll tell you what, I'll come to yours because I know the Boston Globe has a lot of influence Kirk Minihane: I should be in there. Glenn Ordway: on that Massachusetts Hall of Fame and I know they're gonna be supportive of your nomination. I wanna ask you about Kirk Minihane: Once Peb once once once Pebbles got in, I said this is fine. I'm fine with it at that point. Then it's fine. I remember, I remember. Glenn Ordway: Same class as mine. How many times has Portnoy fired you now? Twice? Kirk Minihane: Twice. Yes. So the first time was justified. It was during COVID and we were fighting about something. And they had the sales like pitch on Zoom that year because it was COVID. And I got the code for people to get in and I I told my listeners to go in and just fuck with them. And of course part of me is like Dave appreciates the spirit and the maverick style of that, but He think it was that funny. I remember I was in the parking lot of this I was getting lunch and Erica Nardini was a CEO at the time. She texted She's like, I'm so sorry this didn't work out. I'd love to work with you again in the future. This is before I David called me. I was like, what the fuck is this? A phone call from Dave right after. He's like, You're fired. I'm like, what? He's like, because of this. And I was like, but I won't do it again. He's like, all right, don't do it again. And that was it. Then we had a fight about this person that worked, Brianna Chicken Fry, this loser. And I was driving Kate to a college visit at Cornell. we're on our way back in upstate New York and Dave called was screaming, we cut out and then he's like he texted, I was like, I'm gonna say whatever you want. He's You're fired. Then we call back ten minutes later and settled it. We're both hotheads, as you know. but yeah, it's been a good work. I mean, he lets me do whatever I want. So I can't really we disagree a lot, but he lets me do that. Glenn Ordway: So I don't I I don't know if you were insulted when I told Dino the biggest problem was that the company, Antracom, never recognized Kirk's talent and also some of the obstacles they were dealing with and never managed him properly. Okay. Portnoy Kirk Minihane: I agree. I agree with that a thousand percent. Yeah. But yeah. Glenn Ordway: manages you properly. He gives you enough of the rope, but then finally fires you and then lets Kirk Minihane: Yeah. Glenn Ordway: you back in the door again a day later. Kirk Minihane: Yeah. Glenn Ordway: Because he realizes how valuable you are to what they're trying to do. And he's incorporated Kirk Minihane: Well, I mean yeah they're Glenn Ordway: because I don't think you were ever in the Barstool community. Your show is kind of your own community with these minifans, these crazy people, and they all have interesting things to say. But you were never entrenched that I remember in the Barstool community. Next thing I know, I'm watching Barstool, and you're doing the miniature golf tournament and and this event and Survivor and everything else. You're a big part of Kirk Minihane: Surviving and yeah, yeah, yeah, Glenn Ordway: it. Kirk Minihane: yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And I I do you think part was the first year or two was kind of COVID-ish. So I always got along with people there. But yeah, I think at first everyone's like, this guy's a lunatic. In the madness of the summer of 2020, the people at Barstell, you had a lot of people who changed their Instagram profile to just black and stuff. Everyone was snapping back then. And I made fun of that stuff. But yeah, like I'm part of it now. And like, you know, listen, Dave could get rid of me the Mr and Barstow will be just fine, of course. But like I, you know My contract's up next September, about a year from now. I'd like to sign one more. and then see where at that point. I don't know, like at some point, I don't know. I know, but you you you always say this to me. The idea I'm not gonna do anything is just stupid. Like, what the fuck am I gonna do if I'm my kids are gonna be what am I doing sixty two? Stare at a wall. How many used bookstores can I walk around? You know, it's like after a while, is you just kind of, you know. My dad stopped working, he died. so it's like, I don't know. Yeah, you just get bored. You have things you want you know, you just have things you wanna say. Yeah. So Glenn Ordway: Tell me about it. Yeah. Kirk Minihane: yeah. Glenn Ordway: Yeah, I remember when you announced that you were stopping KMS, you were stopping the the regular show on on YouTube. And I a couple friends said to me, What the hell is wrong with your friend Mina? Why is he stopping that show? I said, Don't believe him. I said, Don't believe him. He's taking he's taking a couple of months off. Don't believe Kirk Minihane: You told me that. You t yeah you t you y Yeah. You told me that, yeah. Glenn Ordway: him. He'll be back. And you're already back and doing it. Kirk Minihane: Well, don't you think I I almost feel like radio, because the summer's so and it basically if you work there long enough becomes this. Same with the you should the summer should be like the summer television. Like it should just be repeats. You just take the summer off and get recharged for September. Like 'cause it is where especially the morning show back then, you know. Like it is br it's not I understand it's not my you know, you're not working in the coal mines, but you're up every day, like you gotta it's just wears you down. This is better. I can come in. I can do whatever I want. Now I can come in alone. I can come in with, you know, so I'm I enjoy it. Now and I have things that that I want to say. If I want to come in on a Saturday now and talk about Lindsey Clancy for twenty minutes, I can't. If I want to talk about two Minafans fighting, I can't. It doesn't really matter. There's no you know, even sports every once in a long while if there's something that interests me, you know. And my take was exactly right. You if you're gonna travel around the world with your wife baking her dumb cookies, well, you better throw for 5,000 yards and 40 touchdowns. Drake May stinks. Glenn Ordway: Mm. Kirk Minihane: His wife is making brownies in Venezuela. It's like, what the fuck is going on? Like, you know, it's a disaster. It's a disaster. Fucking disaster. Well, no, I'm just saying, it annoys me. I was Glenn Ordway: I'm gl I'm glad Sporty McKinsey is back at our lives. This is this is good. Kirk Minihane: watching the game with Harry this weekend. I'm like, he's like, what are you so mad about? I'm like, because all summer, every two days, he was in a different country. I know it's stupid, but Jesus Christ. Glenn Ordway: You brought this up a week ago on your show. Pete and I brought it up. Pete actually brought it up this week to me and he said, you know, Minahan was absolutely right. Maybe that was the problem. 'Cause I don't remember Brady doing all of this stuff. Though there's this new explosive book that is coming out right now that has really taken Kirk Minihane: I have it. Yeah. Yeah, they sent it to me. Glenn Ordway: Giselle's s point of view to the point where they claim that Kirk Minihane: It's a very Glenn, you gotta read you gotta read this book. It's it's it's the weirdest book I've ever read. This Lars Anderson Brady book. It's Glenn Ordway: Yeah. Kirk Minihane: really I it there are times I know you feel this way too. There are times you wish which I I gave I actually said this to Mutt. By the way, Mutt is always like, remember I talked to Mutt, Mutt's like, Glenn's never gonna have me on. I was like, Yeah, Glenn will never have you on. He will never have you on. Glenn Ordway: Let's keep guessing. Kirk Minihane: Yeah. But I was saying, I was like, I give Glenn credit because I always said. This the other day with your son, which is fun. I'm glad you get to do that. Like, there's an immediacy to sports talk radio that do miss. Where like you're something's happening, you can react to it right after the game. Or that was smart to go on after the game right away. You you should do that. but yeah, I I yeah, I think there is something again. Do I think Drake May is not playing well this season because he traveled a lot? No. But it's funny. It's like if you're gonna do that, you better play well. But but the Brady book is it starts with. insanity and gets crazy and not in a good way. I think it's terrible. I don't understand. I don't even know who Lars Anderson is, by the way. But a lot Glenn Ordway: I don't either. Kirk Minihane: basically it's like Brady sacrificed his it's basically this is the premise of it. Brady sacrificed his whole life. He took chances. He did this. He did that. And what did it lead to? Finally at the end, he couldn't fuck Giselle anymore. Like I'm supposed to feel that bad like he he can only have sex with Giselle Bunchner for like 14 years. And now he's banging Alex Earl. I'm like I you know this is like I this My level of sympathy is low. I I don't Glenn Ordway: So I I've heard that they in the book, he claims that Brady was partying all the time, like in clubs and stuff like that. I don't remember that, Brady. Do you? I mean, you talk to him every week. I don't remember Kirk Minihane: No. No. Yeah. Glenn Ordway: that guy. Kirk Minihane: No, he was great with us. Obviously, we had our battles, but he was he was always good. You know what's really sad? You want to hear something pathetic? I'm I'm on with you. I'll tell you. I get the Brady book. We interviewed them every week. John and Jerry did forever. We didn't. We had Brady and I had the big Alex Carrero fight. We had a bunch of battles. When I got the book, the first thing I did was go in the back and see if my name was in the index. I mean, what a loser. No, it was not. It was not. No. Glenn Ordway: Was it? No. No. Kirk Minihane: It actually said no. Kirk Minahan, no, in parentheses. it was just, it was just it was just so I was like, and Glenn Ordway: hold on. Mike Reese, Bob Sochi is in it. Where's my name? No, no. Kirk Minihane: when it happened, I was like, what a loser. Why am I doing this? Like, what a loser. But yeah, it's it's it's not very good. Not very good. But but Brady was, it was, you know, we saw Brady change with us every week the second Trump was elected. Like the second, you know that. Like everything changed with Brady. He became way more guarded. He would never give a state secrets, but like once, once He took a lot of shit, not from us, but because that dumb thing he had Trump's hat or whatever everyone acted like it was like the world was ending. 'Cause, you know, he yeah, but but yeah, I don't remember Tom Brady acting like you know, Joe Namath in Boston and par going you know, going crazy at clubs. Glenn Ordway: I I don't remember any of that. I think politically, I think you're right. He knew he was in a blue state. He knew that he couldn't come out there and and start talking about Trump or being a Republican. But I just read recently he had vacationed recently with Jay Feely. I'm in Arizona. Jay Feely is running here in in Arizona Kirk Minihane: Huge Republican. Yeah. Glenn Ordway: and he's a huge Trump guy. Okay. So Kirk Minihane: it's funny. Yeah. Glenn Ordway: I don't think I don't think in this day and age, you tell me, I don't think in this day and age where we are so divided. That if you're an anti Trump guy, you're going with your buddy and his girlfriend or his wife on vacation for a week and he's a Trump guy and you're not. I just don't see that happening. Kirk Minihane: Well what's funny is what's funny is so much of the anger at the old morning show was directed toward Jerry because he was this big Republican. Greg's as big a Republican as Jerry is. He just doesn't talk about me anyway. Right. Right. Right. And he'll have Glenn Ordway: He is, but he doesn't but he doesn't wear it on his sleeve on the air. I mean, Greg I think knows that you can't do that, but you're right. I I I knew a lot of the friends that Greg hangs out with and a lot of them are very right wing and Kirk Minihane: And and Greg yeah and Greg is the point to you what to in a way to what Olivearo said was like Greg is perfect. Greg has his has his to his credit, has a bunch of loyal you know, advertisers, but he'll finish fourth or fifth, but he'll Glenn Ordway: Yep. Yep. Kirk Minihane: keep everybody happy and like he stayed in the game for like forty years. So like full like, you know, I guess credit to him. He's ever really gotten in trouble. He'll do it. You know, if you want to have you know, if the if the station says have like there were days where the station would say to us, Can you have this person on? Can you and I'd be I would say no. But just 'cause I'm an asshole. Like why not? But Greg will be like, Yeah, you wanna have fucking the guy who owns the Auntie Ann's pretzels down the sure, we'll have him on for twenty minutes. Like who life's too short. So maybe he's right. I don't know. Glenn Ordway: Greg was Greg was always great at dealing with sponsors. I mean, they were a lot Kirk Minihane: Great, great, yeah. Glenn Ordway: of them were his friends. You know, who's the car dealership? He was really good friend. Ernie Bach Jr., he was Kirk Minihane: Yeah, that's just talent. Yeah. Ernie Bach. Yeah. Glenn Ordway: best buddies with him. So Greg would be one of those guys that always got to go on this one's yacht or this one's airplane or something. And you and I, you know, we're we're we're in we're in assistant coach. We're not even in coach on the plane, you know. Kirk Minihane: speaking of that, the last thing, how nuts was I? You know, the answer is very. If I had to rank my craziest moments, getting mad at you about the Wick Grossbeck thing and then not going on the private plane to the Super Bowl might be my craziest thing of that might be the craziest moment of my life in retrospect. Maybe. Glenn Ordway: Well it yes. So we had a private plane to go to the Super Bowl. There was a seat for Kirk Minihane: Yep. And I was mad at you. Glenn Ordway: me, there was the seat for you, and you were p what were you pissed at me about? Kirk Minihane: Yeah. Because I thought I was told that you badmouthed me the Wick Grousbeck about the Celtics radio stuff. Remember, they were trying to get the radio rights to Celtics, and Grousbeck was like, I'm nervous about Minahan because he makes fun of John Henry and Linda Pizzotti. That's what he said. And and Hyana got you Glenn Ordway: Okay. So that's n that Kirk Minihane: to talk to Wick. And as you said to me. You're like, well, Minahan's crazy, but he's a good guy. And I was like, why'd you fucking tell him I was crazy? And then I proved I was crazy by not by not going on a private plane and flying with Tom Giles in row 36 on fucking Delta. So and you and I made up by the time the Glenn Ordway: Sh sick. Kirk Minihane: by the time we I landed, you and I were already getting off. Glenn Ordway: 16B, you were sitting at. I think you had like a 12-hour trip. We had like a two and a half hour trip. Kirk Minihane: I I I had a la I think I had a layover in Dayton. I think I had a layover then in Canada, Tunisia, and then Yeah. Yeah, I want to hear it. Glenn Ordway: All right, so the true story. I'm gonna give you the true story. Hannon comes to me and asked me if I would have a conversation. I had a good relationship with with Kirk Minihane: Wick. Glenn Ordway: Grossback. And I will say this. In the in the old days, I learned from people like Will McDonough. Will McDonough sat me down one time. He was a really good guy and really helped young broadcasters, writers, and said to me, the most important thing you're gonna find in your career, get relationships with owners. general managers, that's where you're gonna find the real good shit. Okay. And he was 100% correct. He knew every owner. All right. And so I did that. And so I had relationships with John Henry. I once had a 45 minute conversation with John Henry because he was gonna fire that guy w what's the guy doc that that's why can't I think of his name? The guy that running the PR out in Worcester right now. they call him Doctor I can't Kirk Minihane: I don't know. Steinberg Charles Steinberg, no? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, nice Glenn Ordway: Charles, yes, Dr. Steinberg, right. Kirk Minihane: guy. Glenn Ordway: So they were gonna fire him. And and something Kirk Minihane: I remember this, yeah. Glenn Ordway: happened in our studio about Dr. Charles, and he wanted the information about it. So I had Kirk Minihane: Right. Right, right, right. Glenn Ordway: relations I had relationships with Jeremy Jacobs. I could pick up the phone and actually have a conversation with the man. He I got I was the first one to actually get him back on the air to do an interview. He had been silent for like 15 years. So They knew that, management knew that. They said to me, Can you call Grossback? We want to bid for the Celtics and find out what he's feeling about that. So I did, and what he said to me was something along the lines of, Yeah, you know, we'll consider it or whatever, but we're a little concerned, because you were probably in the headlines the week before, doing some crazy shit. Kirk Minihane: No question. Yeah. Glenn Ordway: And they said, We're a little bit concerned about Menahan. Nothing about John Henry or Linda Pazuti, none of that existed. That's all he said. I passed that information back on to Annan. And I actually said to Grossback, I said, Well, Craig, Kirk is a little crazy because this is his persona on the air. This is his shtick. This is what he does. He's an entertainer. But I said, he's a really good guy. And I get along with him really well. So I was trying to calm everything down. You Hearing it from second, third, fourth, fifth party, blow a fucking nut, start Kirk Minihane: Yep. Yep. Glenn Ordway: screaming at me and everything else, and then, and then screwed yourself. I didn't give a shit if you didn't go in the first class plane. The the private jet? Really? I'm on the first class jet. I got steak Kirk Minihane: Yeah. I was gonna say, wow, I really show I really sho I really showed you by not going on a private point. I mean, that's what I'm saying, I'm like you you th Glenn Ordway: and lobster. What are you on? You got a bag of peanuts. Kirk Minihane: Peanuts. I was like, you think I'm fucking crazy? I'll prove you I'm fucking crazy. I'm gonna take and by the way, I think that night we had dinner together. It was over. I was like, why is that? Glenn Ordway: We dad din it together that night. After you after you went on a ten hour flight through Dayton on a on a a commercial, you know, jet blue or whatever the hell you were on at the time. Kirk Minihane: This is so but but but but to go f but to go full circle when you talk about Fred Tutcher saying that stuff, I know it sounds toxic, but like we laughed about it that night. You know what I mean? Like Glenn Ordway: We had fun. Kirk Minihane: it was just fun. We had a big dinner at the you know, and we laughed about how dumb it was to be at the Mall of America that week and just like, you know, just like all the like was there crazy stuff? Sure, but like I look back on it now, it's been long enough, like eight years, like like I hate management, I hate merchants, and I hate how it ended, but like There's a million great like great and when stuff really matters, like my parents out, you guys were all like like that stuff matters most and like that's where, you know, I get where people can hate me. I completely understand and respect people if they still do, but but way more laughs for me than like like stuff like that is just at the time you think it's crazy, but even then we were laughing about it that that night. And like, yeah, I mean, you know. But yeah, that was Glenn Ordway: Yeah, Fred Toucher's totally wrong. We had a blast. And I said it to him, you know, in a a tweet today. We had a blast. We did. And there were toxic moments, but Kirk Minihane: Hm. Of course. Glenn Ordway: in the end, a lot of them were laughable. I mean, you and I had you know, screamy matches on the air on two different shows going at each other. And, you know, six hours later we're laughing and joking about it. So yeah. Kirk Minihane: Talking on the phone laughing. Yeah. And I and the but by the way, it was also like pre dates, like, you know, Eddie and Dale were nuts. Like it was just, you know, it was this is this is how it works. But but yeah, it was it was it was so who's who's up next? Do we we have a g who's the next EI person who we can have on next? Glenn Ordway: You'll have to wait. You'll have to, you know, I'm gonna do it like you do it. When you tease. What do you think? I'm an idiot? What do you think I'm an idiot? Kirk Minihane: Yeah, but I just wanna I wanna blurting it out, so Glenn Ordway: Gonna give you the entire schedule for the next month? No. Who would you wanna Kirk Minihane: Hm, trying to think if it was a is there a white whale? Glenn Ordway: who who would you want me to to talk to next? Kirk Minihane: Fully if they're being like true serum fully honest. I mean I actually I mean I think Jeff Brown would actually be great. But I mean, I would love David Field would be great. but they're not gonna be honest. yeah, I always felt bad. Another guy I kinda kicked when he was down was Wolfie, too. I'm sure he hates me. But sure you'll get him on at some point, I would think, right? Glenn Ordway: I would think down the road, 'cause he has more stories than anybody, and if he's Kirk Minihane: It's a producer. Glenn Ordway: willing to tell the true stories now, I think it would be extremely entertaining because he really was in the room when these management people that we've talking about and the corporate people were making these decisions that affected our lives. So that might be interesting, right? Kirk Minihane: Yeah. I felt bad for Wolfie. Yeah. He yeah, yeah. I mean when they brought Jeff Brown and like Wolf's nuts were cut off. He had no chance. Like it was just and you won't just getting fired that summer after you were gone. Got an email in the middle of our Glenn Ordway: Yeah. Kirk Minihane: show. Like he's like, Yeah, I'm leaving. I like, Jesus, what the fuck is going on here? But but Glenn Ordway: Crazy. Kirk Minihane: yeah, crazy to crazy time. Someone I know y you know, you gotta write the book. Glenn Ordway: Yeah, people keep on saying that. I think the problem with the book and I've been approached by publishers and certainly publishing agents about it, but they want a national book. They want because Kirk Minihane: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Glenn Ordway: they don't think they can sell enough in Boston. So what they do is they sit down, I say, 'cause I've come up with the idea of what I want to do with the book, and calling it WKRP in Boston. And but the problem that they have is they want to know about making a mad dog. They want to know what Kirk Minihane: Right, right. Glenn Ordway: happened in Dallas. They want to know Angela Cataldi's stories, Kirk Minihane: Right. Glenn Ordway: you know, in in Philadelphia. And so that involves me not being directly involved with those guys, picking up the phone, calling these guys and have them Kirk Minihane: Yeah, who cares? Yeah. Glenn Ordway: tell me all these stories. And I don't know how deep I'm into that right now. But maybe. We'll see how it plays out. Kirk Minihane: Yeah, and yeah. And I know it is you just yeah, you yeah, and I yeah. And I'm glad you're doing this and I'm watching, I'm paying attention. Glenn Ordway: Well, and you've you've been pushing it on me because you and I have talked and you know that I've enjoyed my retirement. There's no question about that, I've enjoyed it, but as you know, I've been very, very bored. So at times. So you've been pushing it and I appreciate that. And it's great catching up with you. Maybe the next time it'll be you, Dino, and Jerry. That'll be good. Kirk, it's great, man. Thank Kirk Minihane: be there. You name it. All right. Love you, Glenn. Glenn Ordway: you. Kirk Minihane: All right.