Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / Devilish road rager tails mom and sons, GUNS THEM DOWN at dentist office

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Devilish road rager tails mom and sons, GUNS THEM DOWN at dentist office · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:05
Speaker 1: It's just overwhelming. A little boy sees a road rage
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Speaker 1: killer opened fire, shooting his mommy and his siblings. I
0:15
Speaker 1: find it really hard to believe that a mother, Megan Bigelow,
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Speaker 1: forty one years old, with our aldred children in the car,
0:26
Speaker 1: is going to be weaving in and out in traffic
0:30
Speaker 1: having a road rage confrontation. What happened? What happened in
0:35
Speaker 1: the parking lot of the local dentist Crime Stories with
0:46
Speaker 1: Nancy Grace. When I came out the back door to
0:53
Speaker 1: see what was going on, I witnessed the gentleman that
0:57
Speaker 1: had been shot multiple times up against the build right here.
1:00
Speaker 1: He's very concerned about his daughter's whereabouts. He had been
1:03
Speaker 1: shot multiple times. He did say there was a lady
1:07
Speaker 1: just right in front of this building here that had
1:09
Speaker 1: been shot in the head, and it looked like that
1:11
Speaker 1: she was probably faced down on the concrete. He was
1:13
Speaker 1: trying to tell the police to go check her. Hey
1:16
Speaker 1: called him as a commare, and he said, I want
1:18
Speaker 1: to go over there. My mom just got shot. Oh
1:21
Speaker 1: my stars. A little boy witness says a road rage
1:26
Speaker 1: killer opens fire on the boy's family, killing his thirteen
1:32
Speaker 1: year old brother, shooting his mom and sibling, Good Gravy.
1:42
Speaker 1: I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for
1:46
Speaker 1: being with us. You were just hearing from our friends
1:48
Speaker 1: at nine News in Denver with me an all star
1:53
Speaker 1: panel to break it apart and put it back together again.
1:57
Speaker 1: Ashley Willcott judge, trial lawyer anchor at Court TV. You
2:00
Speaker 1: can find her at Ashley Wilcot dot com. Stephen Lampley,
2:04
Speaker 1: detective and author of Outside Your Door on Amazon. Doctor
2:09
Speaker 1: Debbie Joffy Ellis psychologist, Adjunct professor, Columbia University. Karen Smith
2:15
Speaker 1: joining me from the Florida jurisdiction forensics expert, founder of
2:19
Speaker 1: Bear Bones Consulting. But right now, to Dave Matt Crime
2:23
Speaker 1: online dot com investigative reporter. Road rage ends in a
2:29
Speaker 1: shooting death. Tell me what happened, Nancy. A headline here
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Speaker 1: actually explains what happened. You've got a mom and her
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Speaker 1: three boys going to an afternoon dental appointment. You've got
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Speaker 1: traffic on the road, and missus Bigelow is trying to
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Speaker 1: move to her right to get out of the way
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Speaker 1: for an emergency vehicle that's trying to pass. She apparently
2:57
Speaker 1: cuts off Jeremy Webbs her a twenty three year old man,
3:02
Speaker 1: and he then follows her, terrorizing the family as they
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Speaker 1: go down the road, enough that witnesses saw them going
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Speaker 1: back and forth on the road. Missus bigelow, Okay, wait
3:17
Speaker 1: a minute, Wait a minute, who wa wa Wait. What
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Speaker 1: I'm saying is I think she was being defensive in
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Speaker 1: trying to avoid this twenty three year old that is
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Speaker 1: terrorizing her going down the road. She was getting out
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Speaker 1: of the way of an emergency vehicle when apparently, you know,
3:34
Speaker 1: she did maybe cut this guy off, but she wasn't
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Speaker 1: the aggressor here. She's got her three boys in the car.
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Speaker 1: They're thirteen, twelve, and seven. They're headed to a dentist appointment.
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Speaker 1: This guy getting behind her is the aggressor and is
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Speaker 1: doing enough jockeying down the road. Lord in heaven, you know,
3:55
Speaker 1: as she will caught my husband for Pete's sake, And
3:59
Speaker 1: I can't say I haven't ever done it myself, But
4:02
Speaker 1: when people cut him off or they won't go at
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Speaker 1: a red light, he will sit on the horn and
4:10
Speaker 1: he's you know, you know, I love David, but he's
4:13
Speaker 1: a big lug and I'm always afraid he'll get out
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Speaker 1: of the car and just like kick their car or
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Speaker 1: something like, David, look around you. You don't know these people.
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Speaker 1: A good forty percent of them are on parole or probation.
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Speaker 1: Trust me on that. You don't know who's got a
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Speaker 1: gun in their car? Just suck it up. That means
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Speaker 1: he can't yell at people, or he can't make faces
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Speaker 1: at them, gesticulate them till gave them sit on the horn.
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Speaker 1: It means I cannot shoot a bird at anybody that
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Speaker 1: cuts me off. It just you can't do that, not anymore.
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Speaker 1: It just and I find it really hard. I mean,
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Speaker 1: have you ever sat in a red light and just
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Speaker 1: peeked around and thought, Wow, is that a convicted fella?
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Speaker 1: Do they have a gun in the car? Only because
5:01
Speaker 1: of what we do for a living, right I do now?
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Speaker 1: So I have to say my sixteen year old that,
5:05
Speaker 1: you know, he is now driving, and that's one of
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Speaker 1: the things I've had to teach him, not only the
5:11
Speaker 1: extreme flipping someone off, but I tell him be careful,
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Speaker 1: don't look next to you and let your facial expression
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Speaker 1: indicate that you're annoyed or angry. Because it can take
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Speaker 1: almost nothing to trigger people, and a lot of people
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Speaker 1: nationwide owned guns, keep guns in their car. It is
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Speaker 1: not worth the risk because, regrettably, someone who is going
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Speaker 1: to commit road rage does not care if your children
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Speaker 1: are in the car or not. No, they don't care.
5:43
Speaker 1: We are talking about a twenty three year old guy,
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Speaker 1: Jeremy Webster, who apparently pulls his gun and start shooting
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Speaker 1: in the suburbs. Steve Lampley. Where we left off with
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Speaker 1: Dave Matt was the mom was going in and out
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Speaker 1: of traffic trying to get away from this guy. Yeah,
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Speaker 1: there's I mean the mother, a mother and three sons.
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Speaker 1: There children in the car. She doesn't want to stop
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Speaker 1: and then give this person an opportunity to do something
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Speaker 1: to her family, So she to do it, in my opinion,
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Speaker 1: the best way she could do to try to get
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Speaker 1: away from him. Back to Dave Matt, Dave does how
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Speaker 1: long does Jeremy Webster follow the mom, Megan Biggielow and
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Speaker 1: her children Nancy. This actually went about two and a
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Speaker 1: half to three miles from on the road while they
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Speaker 1: were headed to this dental appointment. Now, missus Bigelow, actually
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Speaker 1: she kept her head about her. Okay, she actually continued
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Speaker 1: on the road. She didn't stop and confront the guy.
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Speaker 1: She continued on her path to get to this dental
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Speaker 1: office parking lot where there were plenty of witnesses, and
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Speaker 1: so as they pulled in, if you can imagine, Jeremy
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Speaker 1: Webster was right on her tail, following her her into
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Speaker 1: the parking lot. Megan Bigelow heroically was able to put
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Speaker 1: her car in a position in that parking in that
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Speaker 1: parking lot where she was able to take a picture
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Speaker 1: of the man's license plate. Okay, wait a minute, to
7:15
Speaker 1: do that, that would require her getting out and getting
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Speaker 1: a picture from either the front or the back of
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Speaker 1: the car. I bet that infuriated him, Dave Mack, it did,
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Speaker 1: because it's actually from that moment it led to an argument. Now,
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Speaker 1: missus Bigelow has three young sons with her, thirteen, twelve,
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Speaker 1: and seven. Okay, now she's mama bear. She's protecting her boys.
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Speaker 1: She actually confronts Jeremy Webster there in the parking lot,
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Speaker 1: and now, as you said, probably did get infuriated when
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Speaker 1: she took a picture of his license plate. That's when
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Speaker 1: he started arguing with her. Now, she had the presence
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Speaker 1: of mind to take the picture of the license plate.
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Speaker 1: But what happened next, right, I'm just learning something. I'm
8:00
Speaker 1: learning that the little boy, the twelve year old boy,
8:05
Speaker 1: that's the age of my children. John Data Lucy tells police,
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Speaker 1: Mommy took a photo of the driver's plate. She's talking
8:12
Speaker 1: about the car tag on her phone before they got
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Speaker 1: out of the car. And that means she's not out
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Speaker 1: walking around Jeremy Webster's car taking pictures of it. She
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Speaker 1: did that before she got out of the car. Let
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Speaker 1: me understand something. This is in a dentist office parking lot.
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Speaker 1: Is that correct, the Comfort Dental parking lot. Yes, and
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Speaker 1: there were several other businesses in this little shopping strip
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Speaker 1: mall where the dental office was. But here's the part
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Speaker 1: and what happened Nancy. When missus Bigelow pulls her vehicle
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Speaker 1: into that parking lot, Jeremy Webster pulled directly behind her
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Speaker 1: and stopped in the middle of the parking lot, blocking
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Speaker 1: her in where she can't go anywhere else. Crime Stories
9:17
Speaker 1: with Nancy Grace. I had just dropped her off and
9:25
Speaker 1: we just lived right down the street on seventy ninth.
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Speaker 1: There was a gentleman that was there. He had a
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Speaker 1: gunshot wound to his arm. Gentleman was holding it making
9:35
Speaker 1: sure he wasn't bleeding out, he had a gunshot wound
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Speaker 1: to his chest. As a parent, he couldn't you know,
9:41
Speaker 1: imagine what your mind goes through in today's role. You
9:44
Speaker 1: never know where it's going to happen. Whenever somebody loses
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Speaker 1: a trigger anymore, you are hearing a witness at the
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Speaker 1: road rage shooting. That was James Cisneros. What happened? What
10:00
Speaker 1: happened in the parking lot of the local dentist. I
10:04
Speaker 1: just took the twins to the orthodonist and I'll let
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Speaker 1: them go in first. Then I part and followed. It's
10:13
Speaker 1: unbelievable that now four people have been shot and a
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Speaker 1: little boy is dead. Joining me Ashley Willcott, Steve Lampley,
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Speaker 1: Doctor Debbie Joffey Ellis, Karen Smith, and Dave Mack too.
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Speaker 1: Doctor Debbie Joffey Ellis, Psychologist, adjunct Professor, Columbia University, Doctor
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Speaker 1: Debbie What exactly is road rage? Psychologically speaking? Psychologically, you
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Speaker 1: could almost say it's an altered state of consciousness. The
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Speaker 1: part of the person's brain who's experiencing the rage, it's
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Speaker 1: very primal, and the person's ability at that time to
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Speaker 1: reason or to restrain themselves is non active. And so
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Speaker 1: there's a wild beast here, and one of the best
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Speaker 1: things that a person can do who might be around
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Speaker 1: them is to make the best choice they can. And
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Speaker 1: by the way, at that time, they might be in
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Speaker 1: a somewhat altered state of panic and fear. Nonetheless, the
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Speaker 1: goal not to provoke, not to provoke. The rage does
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Speaker 1: not come from the car incident. It's a result of
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Speaker 1: pent up stuff, and we don't know from how many
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Speaker 1: years back. And it's also a result possibly if it's
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Speaker 1: a young person carrying out these acts of a brain
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Speaker 1: that's not fully developed, where that part of the brain
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Speaker 1: that has the ability to think things through and to
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Speaker 1: restrain themselves from taking unhealthy actions isn't fully formed. So
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Speaker 1: I'm not trying to justify in any way a person's
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Speaker 1: actions if their brain isn't fully formed. I'm just trying
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Speaker 1: to give you some facts. Probably in addition to all
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Speaker 1: of the above is an attitude and a way of
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Speaker 1: thinking that fuels the fire, thinking that no one should
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Speaker 1: have power over me, or I can't stand it when
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Speaker 1: people drive in front of me. These demanding out of perspective,
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Speaker 1: irrational demands fuel any neurological component and any pent up
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Speaker 1: stuff that is blooding through too. Karen Smith, forensics expert
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Speaker 1: joining me out of Florida, the founder of Bare Bones Consulting. Karen,
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Speaker 1: how do you go about proving exactly what happened? The forensics?
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Speaker 1: And here's what they've got this Jeremy person's used egglock.
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Speaker 1: A block is a semi automatic handgun. It automatically ejects
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Speaker 1: casings every time the trigger is pulled, so you know
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Speaker 1: you're looking at somebody who not only made the decision
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Speaker 1: to get a gun, then they pointed it and they
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Speaker 1: pulled the trigger. That is three separate incidents that he
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Speaker 1: chose to do, and he fired the gun repeatedly at
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Speaker 1: numerous people. So the placings of the casings somewhat tell
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Speaker 1: you the pattern that he walked or moved while he
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Speaker 1: was firing it. The casings that are left behind at
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Speaker 1: the scene can be linked to the handgun that he
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Speaker 1: used if they found that in his car or on
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Speaker 1: his person. And they can also tell from the gunshot
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Speaker 1: wounds and the positions of the people left behind to
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Speaker 1: die where they were, what position they were in, how
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Speaker 1: close the gun was or how far away it was.
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Speaker 1: So the forensics are going to tell a story. It
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Speaker 1: may not be the exact story, but with the witness
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Speaker 1: statements and everything left behind it that crime scene, there's
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Speaker 1: going to be a really good chance that everything will
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Speaker 1: come to bearing court. How does a mom and two
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Speaker 1: or three boys and an innocent bystander get shot simply
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Speaker 1: going to the dentist. Take a listen to this. Meghan
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Speaker 1: Bigelow told detectives several months after that shooting, when she
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Speaker 1: was finally interviewed by them, that she was trying to
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Speaker 1: get over into the right lane because there was emergency
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Speaker 1: vehicle coming up right behind her. She was trying to
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Speaker 1: get over. That's when she allegedly cut off Jeremy Webster.
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Speaker 1: The two exchanged words through their driver's side windows, and
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Speaker 1: then he followed her to a parking lot. The two
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Speaker 1: got out of the car, argued some more, and that's
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Speaker 1: when he allegedly opened fire. I'm sorry. The Bigelow family
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Speaker 1: was sitting in the courtroom as all of this was
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Speaker 1: being described. Four months after a deadly road rage incident
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Speaker 1: in Westminster. A judge is now trying to determine whether
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Speaker 1: there's enough evidence for the case to move to trial.
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Speaker 1: On one side of the courtroom, a grieving von Bigelow, Senor,
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Speaker 1: his wife Megan, and their sons, Von Junior and Asa,
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Speaker 1: were shot that fateful day, along with one other man.
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Speaker 1: Thirteen year old Von Junior did not survive. On the
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Speaker 1: other side of the courtroom, Jeremy Webster, the man police
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Speaker 1: say pulled the trigger. Responding officers and Westminster detectives described
15:15
Speaker 1: what unfolded that day. One of the first officers on
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Speaker 1: the scene explained the chaos of June fourteenth, going into
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Speaker 1: graphic detail about the injuries suffered by each of the
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Speaker 1: four victims. You're hearing our friends at ABC din verse seven.
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Speaker 1: That was making Lopez listen to this. Von Signor silently
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Speaker 1: sobbd as officers described seven year old ASA's injuries. The
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Speaker 1: officer thought Asa was dead when he first approached him,
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Speaker 1: curled up in a fetal position, not far from his
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Speaker 1: mother and brother. Von Signor broke down once more when
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Speaker 1: a witness statement described the death of his older son.
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Speaker 1: The witness calling Von Junior's death a quote execution, saying
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Speaker 1: Webster stood over the boy as he was kneeling on
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Speaker 1: the ground and shot him. We also learned about what
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Speaker 1: happened immediately after that shooting. According to police, Jeremy webs
16:00
Speaker 1: Or got back in his car, drove to home depot
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Speaker 1: to buy a song, and went back to remodeling a
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Speaker 1: house before driving home. He was caught several hours later
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Speaker 1: in Castlerock. Meanwhile, the defense brought up Webster's mental history,
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Speaker 1: saying he's been diagnosed with bipolar disorder, and this afternoon
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Speaker 1: all of us were kicked out of the courtroom. Today
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Speaker 1: it was sealed as a judge went ahead and watched
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Speaker 1: the entire interrogation video for Jeremy Webster. It's more than
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Speaker 1: three hours long, and in it, Jeremy Webster allegedly confesses
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Speaker 1: to that shooting. Now, I just found out a couple
16:32
Speaker 1: of minutes ago that this court has gone into recess.
16:36
Speaker 1: The judge is going to finish watching that video, and
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Speaker 1: that's when we could find out whether or not there's
16:41
Speaker 1: enough evidence for this to actually move to trial. Good grief.
16:45
Speaker 1: If they've got a confession and eyewitnesses. I don't know
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Speaker 1: what more they would need to take this case to trial.
16:52
Speaker 1: As she willcot. I'm just imagining the mom. She's trying
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Speaker 1: to usher the boys toward the aist to get inside,
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Speaker 1: to get them safe, when this guy comes out and
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Speaker 1: starts shooting. She did have words with Jeremy Webster. I
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Speaker 1: don't think it even took her saying anything to him
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Speaker 1: to push him over the edge. I think he was
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Speaker 1: a loaded gun, a fire waiting to explode. What do
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Speaker 1: you make of it? I would agree with you, and
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Speaker 1: I think here's the problem. Anytime you have someone who's
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Speaker 1: out volatile, it really doesn't matter at that point, in
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Speaker 1: my opinion, what you say or do. They are going
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Speaker 1: to do what they are going to do. They've already
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Speaker 1: engaged in their rage, which is going to cause them
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Speaker 1: to do something like shoot like he did in this case.
17:49
Speaker 1: Having said that, I'm still going to say this, it
17:52
Speaker 1: is not her fault. It is not her fault. I
17:54
Speaker 1: do not believe she could have prevented this. But it
17:57
Speaker 1: is important for people to keep in mind again, do
18:00
Speaker 1: everything you can not to engage because people are crazy
18:03
Speaker 1: out there. Crime stories with Nancy Grace. The alleged gunman
18:34
Speaker 1: told detectives that he feels like someone's always out to
18:37
Speaker 1: get him and that is why he was carrying guns
18:38
Speaker 1: a day of the shooting. Yeah, and the suspect said
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Speaker 1: that in a three hour interrogation after his arrest. A
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Speaker 1: judge here in Adams County watched that interrogation video in
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Speaker 1: private today. In it, Jeremy Webster tells detectives the shooting
18:52
Speaker 1: felt like a dream, and he said he felt like
18:55
Speaker 1: he was watching someone else attack the Bigelow family. In
18:59
Speaker 1: the shooting, thirteen year old Vaughan Junior was shot and killed.
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Speaker 1: His mom and youngest brother were also shot. The mother,
19:07
Speaker 1: Megan Bigelow, says she swerved trying to avoid an emergency vehicle,
19:12
Speaker 1: accidentally cutting off the suspect in traffic. Then, according to witnesses,
19:16
Speaker 1: the suspect followed her into the parking lot of a
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Speaker 1: dentist's office, and after a brief argument, he opened fire
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Speaker 1: on the family and another bystander. Witnesses say Jeremy Webster
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Speaker 1: saw the thirteen year old kneeling and walked over and
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Speaker 1: shot him again in quote execution style. Today, the defense
19:35
Speaker 1: tried to argue that Webster was impaired mentally at the
19:39
Speaker 1: time of the shooting and was perhaps not fit to
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Speaker 1: stand trial. The judge disagreed and set the arraiement date
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Speaker 1: for the week after Thanksgiving. Well, that means this is
19:49
Speaker 1: going to trial. You were hearing our friends at Denver seven.
19:52
Speaker 1: That was Lance Fernandez. An arraignment is when you are
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Speaker 1: formally read the charges against you and advised of many
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Speaker 1: of your rights under the Constitution. That's what an arrayment is.
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Speaker 1: When the actual charge is brought by a preliminary hearing
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Speaker 1: judge or a grand jury, is read out loud in
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Speaker 1: court and you are thereby formally on notice of what
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Speaker 1: the charges are. We see the defense already lining up
20:22
Speaker 1: that he was by Paula didn't know what he was doing.
20:26
Speaker 1: If he didn't know what he was doing, Dave Mack,
20:29
Speaker 1: how can you explain and tell me if I'm right
20:31
Speaker 1: or wrong? That? After he shoots the little boy dead
20:35
Speaker 1: and shoots the other witnesses, the mother, the brother, and
20:39
Speaker 1: an innocent guy standing in the parking lot trying to
20:41
Speaker 1: take his daughter to the dentist, he goes to home depot,
20:44
Speaker 1: webs out cash or a credit card, buys a saw,
20:47
Speaker 1: and heads to work. He goes to work like any
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Speaker 1: other day. So how could he be insane and not
20:53
Speaker 1: know right from wrong? Interesting that from the very beginning
20:57
Speaker 1: of this interaction between mister Webster and the police, he
21:02
Speaker 1: was playing the mentally deficient card. Or however you want
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Speaker 1: to refer to it, saying that he had just changed
21:08
Speaker 1: medication that day. I wondered the same thing. This is
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Speaker 1: a guy that seemed to be perfectly prepared to shoot
21:15
Speaker 1: somebody willy nilly and then go on about his daily life.
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Speaker 1: It makes absolutely no sense at all what Jeremy Webster
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Speaker 1: is claiming as what was going on in his mind
21:30
Speaker 1: before this took place. You know, I learned a long
21:33
Speaker 1: time ago, and it took years for it to sink
21:35
Speaker 1: in after my fiancee was murdered just before a wedding,
21:40
Speaker 1: that you start your day like every other day, everything
21:43
Speaker 1: seems perfectly fine. I remember walking out of a statistics
21:48
Speaker 1: exam on my way to work at the library and
21:50
Speaker 1: thinking about how bright and sunny and beautiful the day
21:53
Speaker 1: was so glad to get the test behind me. And
21:57
Speaker 1: that's when I found out that out of the blue,
22:00
Speaker 1: they've been murdered. Who would think on your way to
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Speaker 1: the dentist office, your thirteen year old son is going
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Speaker 1: to be murdered execution style, and the parking area at
22:15
Speaker 1: the dentist office to dodger. Debbie Joffe ellis joining US psychologist.
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Speaker 1: He is claiming it all felt like a dream, but
22:26
Speaker 1: then he went to home depot and made a purchase
22:29
Speaker 1: and went straight to work. Yeah, you know, people, whether
22:33
Speaker 1: they have bipolar condition or not. And by the way,
22:36
Speaker 1: I feel compelled to say, let's not give a stigmatized
22:44
Speaker 1: account of the bipolar condition. There are countless people suffering
22:48
Speaker 1: from bipolar disorder that don't go out and murder people.
22:53
Speaker 1: So putting that diagnosis aside, it sounds like he was
22:59
Speaker 1: very much to paranoid. A few minutes ago, one of
23:03
Speaker 1: the reporters that you were presenting the words of said
23:08
Speaker 1: that he felt people were out to get him. And
23:10
Speaker 1: then earlier when you had disclosed that when the mother
23:14
Speaker 1: took the photo, that seemed to really set him off.
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Speaker 1: So you know, people without bipolar can be paranoid as well,
23:22
Speaker 1: and they can disassociate. So you know, all of us,
23:25
Speaker 1: whether we have mental issues or not, are able to compartmentalize.
23:30
Speaker 1: So he may have been literally blinded by rage to
23:35
Speaker 1: do the acts. Again, I'm not necessarily blaming his bipolar
23:39
Speaker 1: condition at all. And then somehow dissociates and goes to
23:43
Speaker 1: home depot a deeply troubled soul. I don't believe anyone
23:49
Speaker 1: is commenting on the condition of bipolar. Many of us
23:52
Speaker 1: have very close relatives with bipolar and pipolar disorder and
23:58
Speaker 1: function absolutely normally society. It's something you can deal with
24:02
Speaker 1: and that typically not always, but typically can be control
24:06
Speaker 1: with medication. I don't even know if this guy has
24:09
Speaker 1: by choler. That's just what he said and what as
24:11
Speaker 1: lawyer said, I don't know if that's true or not.
24:13
Speaker 1: But what I do know, which is the point I
24:16
Speaker 1: was making, is that he isn't by far from insane.
24:20
Speaker 1: In fact, he leaves a scene of a mass shooting
24:24
Speaker 1: where he kills a thirteen year old boy execution style,
24:27
Speaker 1: goes to home depot, makes a purchase, gets in his
24:31
Speaker 1: vehicle as Toyota Corolla, and heads to his job site
24:35
Speaker 1: at a construction site and works all day. So clearly
24:39
Speaker 1: he knew what he was doing. There's a difference, I believe, Nancy,
24:43
Speaker 1: between knowing what you're doing and choosing to act in
24:47
Speaker 1: evil ways. Well, yes, that's what the law is. The
24:50
Speaker 1: law is that insanity under the old McNaughton rule, which
24:55
Speaker 1: was in our common is in our common law that
24:57
Speaker 1: we brought over from Great Britain, is that if you
25:01
Speaker 1: knew right from wrong at the time of the incident.
25:04
Speaker 1: You are not legally insane. I want to go back
25:08
Speaker 1: to him going to home Depot, Dave Mac. You know,
25:11
Speaker 1: Dave Mack. I always say that Nasaka takes some tips
25:15
Speaker 1: from home Depot, Lows and Target because they have the
25:20
Speaker 1: most awesome video surveillance. I'm sure he's captured on video
25:25
Speaker 1: surveillance making that purchase. I'm assuming that he has. I
25:28
Speaker 1: haven't seen anything indicating that. Well, we know he purchased
25:30
Speaker 1: a saw, So I'm going to go out there and
25:32
Speaker 1: say they got him pictured, you know, in that home
25:34
Speaker 1: depot buying the saw. You know the fact that he
25:37
Speaker 1: just goes to work as if nothing is wrong, Stephen Lampley.
25:41
Speaker 1: I assume there's going to be video from the dentist's
25:43
Speaker 1: office parking lot as well as home depot, and there
25:48
Speaker 1: will be witnesses at his workplace where he went that
25:52
Speaker 1: will describe him working that day perfectly normally. Well, that's
25:55
Speaker 1: the way it seems, Nancy. And what bothers me about this?
25:59
Speaker 1: And again I was not there. I was not there
26:01
Speaker 1: when he confessed and waved his miranda. But what stuck,
26:06
Speaker 1: what's sticking out to me is that it seems like,
26:09
Speaker 1: in my opinion, that he was just going out there
26:14
Speaker 1: that hey, my meds were changed, and it it gives
26:18
Speaker 1: me the impression that maybe he used that as an
26:23
Speaker 1: excuse to do these crimes. I don't know, but that
26:26
Speaker 1: stands out to me. But yeah, going doing Danny, going
26:29
Speaker 1: about your daily routine. That's very troubling crime stories with
26:46
Speaker 1: Nancy Gracedies. You know, Um, nobody deserves that children, nobody
26:54
Speaker 1: deserves that. Our society has become so outre. You know
27:01
Speaker 1: that you just don't know who you're living by, who
27:04
Speaker 1: you're talking to. You've got to know, is sad that
27:08
Speaker 1: nobody could see what was going on in his head?
27:12
Speaker 1: Or maybe he doesn't have anybody, maybe somebody you know,
27:17
Speaker 1: you didn't have anybody. Do you recognize that he's got problems?
27:21
Speaker 1: You were hearing a neighbor that's Connie who lived next
27:25
Speaker 1: to Jeremy Webster. Apparently no one knew that there was
27:32
Speaker 1: anything wrong, that there was any mental defect or instability
27:38
Speaker 1: or issue whatsoever, and expressed surprise that the shooting suspect
27:43
Speaker 1: Jeremy Webster lived right there in her apartment complex. But
27:48
Speaker 1: take a listen to this. I was talking to you
27:51
Speaker 1: a little bit earlier about that witness I talked with.
27:53
Speaker 1: She said that she saw one of the young kids
27:55
Speaker 1: out here running towards the street. She stopped him, trying
27:59
Speaker 1: to make sure that he was going to be safe,
28:00
Speaker 1: and took him into a nearby dental office, Comfort Dental.
28:04
Speaker 1: I spoke with one of the co owners of that
28:07
Speaker 1: place just a few minutes ago, and he explained what
28:11
Speaker 1: staff they're told him at the time. We knew he
28:15
Speaker 1: was related to the victims at the time, and the
28:18
Speaker 1: story that I heard was that he was incredibly brave
28:22
Speaker 1: and courageous and certainly helped the police officers get to
28:26
Speaker 1: the bottom of what had gone on. Everybody's still distraught
28:29
Speaker 1: in that office today, but they are open and you
28:31
Speaker 1: can see flowers. A number of well wishers leaving some
28:34
Speaker 1: flowers on the bushes underneath this sign. Here, this is
28:37
Speaker 1: the parking lot where that incident happened. Yesterday, again, four
28:40
Speaker 1: people's shot. One of those children died. We are told
28:44
Speaker 1: that the mom and her other child are still in
28:47
Speaker 1: critical condition, and that the other victim, a man, an
28:52
Speaker 1: adult male, is expected to be okay. Again. Road range
28:56
Speaker 1: behind issooting yesterday our friends is CBS four Denver. Was
29:00
Speaker 1: Brian Mass speaking did you hear him? State Steve Lampley,
29:04
Speaker 1: detective author of Outside Your Door, that he made contact
29:09
Speaker 1: with another guy that must be the victim, John Gill,
29:13
Speaker 1: that he shot John Gill was taking his daughter to
29:16
Speaker 1: the dentist. He shot him down because the guy looked
29:19
Speaker 1: at him, Nancy. So this was not like they were
29:23
Speaker 1: saying a while ago. This is not necessarily tied to
29:27
Speaker 1: the incident of being cut off. It's possibly tied to
29:31
Speaker 1: pent up anger or something that happened previously, along with
29:34
Speaker 1: his paranoia. In my opinion, well, I don't know about that.
29:37
Speaker 1: I think it's a mixture because actually we hear that
29:41
Speaker 1: the mom, Megan Bigelow, was dodging an emergency transport vehicle
29:46
Speaker 1: I guess an ambulance and she accidentally cut the guy off.
29:50
Speaker 1: She cut Jeremy Webster off and he began following her,
29:54
Speaker 1: so she wasn't picked out at random, she and her family.
29:58
Speaker 1: He followed her. We even through traffic all the way
30:01
Speaker 1: the dentist office had pulled down, pulled in behind her.
30:05
Speaker 1: It seems as if he blocked her in so she
30:07
Speaker 1: didn't have anywhere to go. I'm not sure about that,
30:08
Speaker 1: but got right behind her, so that is what triggered it,
30:13
Speaker 1: because he picked her car after she cut him off
30:16
Speaker 1: by accident and followed her for some period of time
30:20
Speaker 1: on the highway until she pulls in at the dentist office.
30:23
Speaker 1: That is what triggered it. Yeah, I completely agree. But
30:26
Speaker 1: think about road rage in general, and I've seen it
30:29
Speaker 1: happen on the interstates way too often, and that is
30:31
Speaker 1: somebody accidentally cuts someone off, swerves over into the other lane,
30:36
Speaker 1: and that triggers the person next to them, who then
30:38
Speaker 1: literally will chase them. I've seen it on the interstate,
30:41
Speaker 1: chasing them down. So I think that's exactly what happened.
30:45
Speaker 1: He didn't care. The reason he didn't care what was
30:48
Speaker 1: going on around him. He perceived it as she's going
30:51
Speaker 1: to run into me, it's her fault. He then instigated
30:55
Speaker 1: in a second and chased her down. Isn't it true?
30:58
Speaker 1: Dave Jackie is here in the studio is telling me
31:02
Speaker 1: that he got out, had a verbal confrontation with Megan Bigelow,
31:06
Speaker 1: the mom of three, then went back into his car
31:10
Speaker 1: and got his block his gun. Is that right? That's
31:12
Speaker 1: my understanding, Nancy WHOA. That's what we call in the
31:15
Speaker 1: law premeditation. Ashley explained her. I am so premeditation, Nancy.
31:21
Speaker 1: You know, and you've said this often, and it's so true.
31:24
Speaker 1: Premeditation can happen in a second, It can happen ten
31:28
Speaker 1: days before an event. It is when a person thinks
31:32
Speaker 1: about it, premeditates and decides they're going to do it.
31:37
Speaker 1: They think about it the second I would submit. This
31:40
Speaker 1: man started chasing her car down. He didn't know anything
31:44
Speaker 1: about her, didn't know anything about who was in the car.
31:47
Speaker 1: He was angry. She came over, he chased her down.
31:52
Speaker 1: That to me's the premeditation in this case. Well, the
31:55
Speaker 1: judge trying to determine if there's enough evidence to buying
31:59
Speaker 1: the case over for trial. Well, it ends in an indictment,
32:04
Speaker 1: which means he is going to go to trial. Take
32:07
Speaker 1: a listen to our frensy KdV R. This is Shaul Turner.
32:11
Speaker 1: His name is Jeremy Webster. He's twenty three years old
32:15
Speaker 1: and apparently lives in Colorado Springs. We don't know what
32:18
Speaker 1: he was doing up here in the Westminster area yesterday.
32:21
Speaker 1: He's being held for investigation of first degree murder after deliberation,
32:24
Speaker 1: first degree homicide with extreme indifference, first degree assault, and
32:29
Speaker 1: three counts of criminal attempt. Now, that road rage incident
32:34
Speaker 1: that you were talking about happened right in this area yesterday.
32:37
Speaker 1: We talked with an individual who said she was driving
32:40
Speaker 1: by heard some gunshots. We know that the suspect apparently
32:45
Speaker 1: fired multiple times, hitting four individuals, an adult male who
32:50
Speaker 1: was in one of the vehicles nearby, an adult female,
32:54
Speaker 1: and two of her at least three children who were
32:57
Speaker 1: here on scene. Now, Webster himself then to golf, driving
33:01
Speaker 1: in a black Toyota Corolla. He was apprehended along I
33:05
Speaker 1: twenty five near Castle Rock yesterday, apparently taken into custody
33:09
Speaker 1: without incident. He has now entered a not guilty plea
33:13
Speaker 1: and is awaiting trial. But even though the case is
33:16
Speaker 1: moving forward through legal channels, take a listen to the
33:20
Speaker 1: district attorney. Nothing is gonna please them. Nothing we do.
33:25
Speaker 1: Nothing that's going to happen in the system. You know.
33:29
Speaker 1: The only thing that can happen is we can go
33:30
Speaker 1: back in time and none of this would ever happen.
33:32
Speaker 1: That's obviously impossible. And he's right what this mother must
33:38
Speaker 1: be going through having her children shot. One one boy
33:44
Speaker 1: murdered execution style in the parking lot at the dentist
33:50
Speaker 1: all over a road rage incident. I'm sure she's blaming
33:55
Speaker 1: herself in some way, even though this is not her fault.
33:59
Speaker 1: There's the aspect of survivor's guilt, which could plague the
34:03
Speaker 1: other brothers and the mother for the rest of their
34:05
Speaker 1: life while they are chart listen. Jeremy Webster faces eleven
34:12
Speaker 1: charges and could face the death penalty. Investigators say Webster
34:15
Speaker 1: followed forty one year old Megan Bigelow into a parking
34:18
Speaker 1: lot in Westminster last week. They reportedly argued. Then Webster's
34:23
Speaker 1: accused of shooting the mom, her thirteen year old son, Vaughan,
34:26
Speaker 1: and seven year old Asa. A man in a nearby
34:29
Speaker 1: car was shot as well. Vaughan was killed. And now
34:32
Speaker 1: we're hearing for the first time from the victims of
34:35
Speaker 1: that shooting. They've released a statement and a family picture
34:39
Speaker 1: says quote. The Bigelows will need to have some help
34:41
Speaker 1: moving forward. They ask that you consider donating blood immemorial
34:45
Speaker 1: of Vaughan Bigelow junior. Seven year old Asa has a
34:48
Speaker 1: tricheotomy so he can't speak, but they say he's more
34:51
Speaker 1: alert this morning. Oh my stars, I can hardly take
34:55
Speaker 1: in what that family is going through you're hearing din
34:58
Speaker 1: Verse sevens Meghan Nopez to Ashley Willcott. I don't know
35:04
Speaker 1: how you could ever deal with being there in the
35:08
Speaker 1: parking lot when your child's executed. Neither can I, and
35:12
Speaker 1: I agree with you as a mother. You're going to
35:14
Speaker 1: blame yourself. You're going to go over it again and
35:16
Speaker 1: again and again and again in your mind to say,
35:19
Speaker 1: what could I have done? What should I have done?
35:21
Speaker 1: Here's the bottom line. At some point, as horrible as
35:24
Speaker 1: it is, you have to forgive yourself and be able
35:26
Speaker 1: to say it happened. There's nothing I could have done
35:30
Speaker 1: to change the outcome. And I now have to be
35:32
Speaker 1: here to continue to love and support my children. And
35:35
Speaker 1: I can't even imagine what it might take to get
35:38
Speaker 1: through that as a mother. It's horrible. We wait as
35:42
Speaker 1: justice unvols Nancy Gray's crime story, signing off Goodbye friend,