Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / EMMA BAUM, PREGNANT WHEN SHE WENT MISSING, FAMILY'S DESPERATE PLEA: WHERE'S EMMA?

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EMMA BAUM, PREGNANT WHEN SHE WENT MISSING, FAMILY'S DESPERATE PLEA: WHERE'S EMMA? · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:00
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, a pregnant mom just twenty
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Speaker 1: five years old, missing tonight. The family's desperate plea, Where's Emma.
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Speaker 1: I'm Nancy Grace, this is Crime Stories. Thank you for
0:18
Speaker 1: being with us.
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Speaker 2: I'm Emma BAM's mother. I would like my daughter home.
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Speaker 2: You miss her. She's her Baby's need her, her family
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Speaker 2: needs her. And if anybody knows anything or can help
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Speaker 2: search for her, could you please help us? We need
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Speaker 2: her home.
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Speaker 1: That is Emma Baum's mother A desperate plea to bring
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Speaker 1: Emma home. Emma nine months pregnant, dilated to one centimeter
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Speaker 1: to our knowledge. That from our friends at ABC seven.
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Speaker 1: Joining me right now in All Star panel. But first
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Speaker 1: I'm going to go to Emma's mother, Jamie Baum. Jamie,
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Speaker 1: thank you for being with us. Also with Jamie is
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Speaker 1: Emma's father, Jason Waddell and sister Abby. To all of you,
1:11
Speaker 1: thank you for being with us. I've just learned about
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Speaker 1: Emma's disappearance. I'm very curious. I know that she's been
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Speaker 1: gone several weeks at this point. But the first thing
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Speaker 1: I want to do, Jamie is get her photo out there.
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Speaker 1: Emma gorgeous, stunning inside and out.
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Speaker 3: A real girly girl. She loved putting on makeup and
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Speaker 3: dressing up.
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Speaker 1: She loved different styles, wearing wigs, just everything fashion. Now,
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Speaker 1: at nine months pregnant, seemingly has vanished straight back out
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Speaker 1: to Jamie Baum. First of all, tell me about the pregnancy.
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Speaker 3: Is it correct that she was at one centimeter when
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Speaker 3: she gets missing? Yes, she was.
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Speaker 1: Tell me about her pregnancy. Has it been a difficult pregnancy?
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Speaker 1: Has it been high risk? What can you tell me?
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Speaker 1: Because I'm trying to imagine. Is she in some hospitals somewhere?
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Speaker 1: Has she had the baby? What is behind all of this?
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Speaker 1: How do you just vanish at.
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Speaker 3: Nine months pregnant?
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Speaker 1: I could hardly walk at six months pregnant with twins,
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Speaker 1: So how does a pregnant young she's just twenty five,
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Speaker 1: a young woman just seemingly disappear.
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Speaker 3: Tell me about her pregnancy.
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Speaker 2: She she's had a good pregnancy. She's just dilated. When
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Speaker 2: she went. We tried to have her stay home, as
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Speaker 2: she ended up going out.
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Speaker 1: Right now, her children want to know where's a mommy again?
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Speaker 1: Joining me in All Star panel to make sense of
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Speaker 1: what we know right now.
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Speaker 4: But listen, we've all gathered here today because We are
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Speaker 4: looking for my sister. She is one centimeter dilated on
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Speaker 4: October fourth. She has been missing since October ten. My
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Speaker 4: sister is.
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Speaker 3: Beautiful, She's energetic. She reaches for this.
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Speaker 5: Guy just like a sunflower, which is her favorite.
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Speaker 1: You're seeing that from our friends at ABC seven joining
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Speaker 1: me in addition to Emma's mother Jamie, father Jason, and
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Speaker 1: sister Abby. Lisette gian is joining us host of Caase
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Speaker 1: Files Chicago and you can find her at Tase Files Chicago.
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Speaker 3: Lisette, thank you for being with us.
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Speaker 1: Lisa, tell me about the area from which she goes missing.
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Speaker 3: This is Gary, Indiana. Is it in the city.
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Speaker 1: Is it the metropolitan area around the city.
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Speaker 6: This is in the city, Nancy, It's in a more
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Speaker 6: dilapidated area. We're talking about twenty fifth block of Connecticut Street,
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Speaker 6: which there are a lot of empty buildings around. There's
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Speaker 6: a lot of empty land and wooded area. Yea there,
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Speaker 6: So it is, you know, part of the city.
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Speaker 7: One of the concerns.
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Speaker 6: That is also very near our expressways here, and of
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Speaker 6: course we're known as the crossroads of America in this area.
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Speaker 6: So you know, the thought of maybe her, you know,
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Speaker 6: being even gone on that highway is actually a concern too.
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Speaker 3: You're absolutely correct. Listen to this.
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Speaker 8: Emma Baum was last seen near twenty fifth Avenue in
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Speaker 8: Connecticut Street, about two miles directly south of downtown Gary, Indiana.
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Speaker 8: It's been described as a dismal and desolate area. Baum
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Speaker 8: was visiting a home in the neighborhood. Her friends and
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Speaker 8: family have been there scouring abandoned homes looking for her
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Speaker 8: and for clues into her disappearance.
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Speaker 1: Joining me in addition to the family analysta Gian Brian
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Speaker 1: Fitzgibbons is with us Director Operations USPA Nationwide Security, leading
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Speaker 1: a team of investigators specializing and finding missing people. You
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Speaker 1: can find him at USPA security dot com. Brian, thank
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Speaker 1: you for being with us. I've got all sorts of
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Speaker 1: thought colliding in my head regarding the disappearance of twenty
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Speaker 1: five year old, nine month pregnant Emma Baum. Number one
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Speaker 1: a case I'm sure you're very familiar with, and that
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Speaker 1: is the case of Shasta and Dylan Gronie who go
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Speaker 1: missing out of Cord Delane, Idaho. Why what does that
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Speaker 1: have to do with Emma's disappearance? If you could control room,
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Speaker 1: please show me that map again. If you look down
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Speaker 1: at an aerial off cord delane. You see nothing but green,
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Speaker 1: densely wooded trees.
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Speaker 3: That's all you see. Running through that very rural area heavily.
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Speaker 1: Forested is an interstate. What happened to these two children?
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Speaker 1: A guy a perv driving down the interstate gets a
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Speaker 1: glimpse of Shasta gronee about eleven years old, and little
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Speaker 1: brother Dylan gets the glimpse through the trees of them
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Speaker 1: at an above ground pool. He goes and lies in wait,
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Speaker 1: kills the whole family to abduct the children, ultimately killing
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Speaker 1: Dylan as well.
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Speaker 3: Shasta lived.
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Speaker 1: After our program broadcasts the photos, a woman in a
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Speaker 1: convenience store spotted Shasta with her attacker and call.
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Speaker 3: The tip line.
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Speaker 1: Okay, the significance of that interstate cannot be emphasized enough,
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Speaker 1: explain Brian.
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Speaker 9: To have a main thoroughfare like that so close to
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Speaker 9: where Emma was last seeing is very concerning because she
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Speaker 9: could move at a high rate of speed to get
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Speaker 9: away from that area. And complicating factor even further is
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Speaker 9: the phone that she was holding at the time did
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Speaker 9: not have served and connected.
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Speaker 10: So even though it's.
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Speaker 1: Yes, that's a whole another can of worms. The cell
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Speaker 1: phone issue but Brian, just think about it. Sixty miles
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Speaker 1: an hour if she was in a vehicle, that's how
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Speaker 1: quickly she'd be gone. At one centimeter dilated just before
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Speaker 1: her disappearance. Look at Emma five to three, one hundred
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Speaker 1: and thirty six pounds, nine months pregnant, brown hair, light
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Speaker 1: brown hair, blondish hair and eyes, brown eyes.
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Speaker 3: Tattoos you see one right there. Now.
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Speaker 1: She loves to dress up and wear different colored wigs.
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Speaker 1: That's just her. What is she wearing right now? We
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Speaker 1: cannot project that there you see her and other shots
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Speaker 1: you may see her with short, light brown hair.
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Speaker 3: Just look at her face. If I could show her
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Speaker 3: face again.
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Speaker 1: And specifically, specifically, I want to see a show of
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Speaker 1: that tattoo along her neck and collar bone, because regardless
8:05
Speaker 1: of how she's got her hair done, that is something
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Speaker 1: that will not change.
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Speaker 3: To Jamie, this is Emma's mom. What is that there?
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Speaker 1: She is with a brown here with a brown wig. Jamie,
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Speaker 1: what is the tattoo? It looks like a sunrise?
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Speaker 2: It is, Yes, it is a sunrise.
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Speaker 1: Emma is a natural brunette, but often has her hair
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Speaker 1: like this.
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Speaker 3: Now the other case I want to bring up to you, Brian, Fitzgibbons.
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Speaker 1: We just heard Lizette Gin joining us from Case Files Chicago,
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Speaker 1: talking about multiple abandoned homes in the area where she
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Speaker 1: was last visiting friends. In that neighborhood, there are some
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Speaker 1: abandoned homes, and it brings to mind a case that
8:52
Speaker 1: I covered extensively, the disappearance of a Leanna Defreese, a
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Speaker 1: schoolgirl on her way to school. Ultimately found she had
9:03
Speaker 1: been tortured. She was killed in an abandoned home. Brian
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Speaker 1: fitz Gibbons, police must go through every single abandoned home
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Speaker 1: in that area, explain the danger.
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Speaker 10: There's a lot of inherent danger there.
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Speaker 9: First of all, Gary, Indiana is a dangerous place with
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Speaker 9: all these abandoned homes. Nancy, you complicate search efforts, particularly
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Speaker 9: for volunteers. Police need to get on the ground there
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Speaker 9: in that vicinity of twenty fifth in Connecticut and start
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Speaker 9: searching some of those abandoned properties immediately.
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Speaker 1: How do you go about doing that? I mean, this
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Speaker 1: is your expertise. You don't just drive by for Pete's sake.
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Speaker 1: The problem I see with an abandoned home is that
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Speaker 1: a victim can be taken in there, They can be raped,
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Speaker 1: they can be murdered.
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Speaker 3: They can be.
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Speaker 1: Held hostage and no one's going in and out. People
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Speaker 1: stay away from abandoned homes. Who wants to get near it.
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Speaker 1: You don't know what's in there. They're deemed unsafe, so
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Speaker 1: people can be in there and nobody knows.
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Speaker 9: Yeah, the city should have access to these abandoned properties
10:10
Speaker 9: without needing a search warrant. In many cases they will
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Speaker 9: indeed have that access, so I don't see that being
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Speaker 9: an issue in this case.
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Speaker 1: Another case that is startlingly similar is that of a
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Speaker 1: young mom, a Memphis mom, Eliza Fletcher, outlining her own business.
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Speaker 3: Eliza was jogging.
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Speaker 1: Here, we have Emma innocently visiting a friend and she
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Speaker 1: goes missing. Eliza goes missing, she was found in an
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Speaker 1: abandoned home that no one thought to look in. I
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Speaker 1: would advise some sort of a grid search at this point.
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Speaker 1: Brian Fitzgibbons, a grid search of this entire area.
10:51
Speaker 9: Absolutely, and it's listen, there are quite a few abandoned
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Speaker 9: homes in that vicinity, but this is not a massive.
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Speaker 10: Area around the place that she was last seeing. And
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Speaker 10: we have to think if something did happen.
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Speaker 9: To her, she would have had to be moved very
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Speaker 9: close by that she wouldn't have been moved too far away.
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Speaker 1: To Abby Smith joining me. This is Emma's sister, along
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Speaker 1: with mom, Jamie. Abby, tell me about the phone, the
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Speaker 1: phone that Emma had.
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Speaker 5: Emma used a lot of the WIFEI data, so she
11:22
Speaker 5: should be able to connect to some sort of cell
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Speaker 5: tower or some sort of area where we'd be able
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Speaker 5: to determine whether or not that phone was moved. I
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Speaker 5: thought her last message was at five point thirty two pm,
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Speaker 5: and then she's just gone completely blank. We haven't had
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Speaker 5: any contact. No one has said anything. We haven't come
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Speaker 5: up no Facebook, no Snapchat, no like, no anything, and
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Speaker 5: we have not found the phone.
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Speaker 1: Now, hold on right there, right there, hold on, hold on,
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Speaker 1: I've got a dissect everything you're saying, Abby is Emma Sis. Guys,
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Speaker 1: Please help us, Please help us. The family contacted me.
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Speaker 1: We read about the case online. I have seen no
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Speaker 1: other media coverage of Emma's case. The family is desperate tonight,
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Speaker 1: joining together, the dad, the mom, the sister, begging for help,
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Speaker 1: begging for your help. I want to give you a
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Speaker 1: couple of numbers. Right now here is a toll free number.
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Speaker 1: It's one eight hundred you tell us one eight hundred,
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Speaker 1: eight eight three five, five eight seven repeat one eight hundred,
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Speaker 1: eight eight three, five, five eight seven.
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Speaker 3: You can remain anonymous.
12:39
Speaker 1: You can remain anonymous one eight hundred you tell us
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Speaker 1: eight eight three five five eighty seven. Or there's a
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Speaker 1: detective work. A detective working the case out of Lake
12:51
Speaker 1: County Homicide Detective Gordon two one nine seven five five
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Speaker 1: three eight five five two one nine seven five five
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Speaker 1: three eight five five. The mom and dad desperate, desperate
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Speaker 1: for help. They have been out searching, they have been
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Speaker 1: out putting up flyers. Won't you help us? Help them
13:15
Speaker 1: to Sister Abby? I want to understand a little bit
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Speaker 1: more about her cell phone now.
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Speaker 3: Was this a prepaid phone? You said she was using
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Speaker 3: Wi Fi? Was she out of minutes? Help me understand
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Speaker 3: what's happening.
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Speaker 5: She's going to turn it on. I believe she was
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Speaker 5: using the phone company Boost. Was it the Boost I Boost?
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Speaker 5: So like it's one of the prepaid phones. She had
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Speaker 5: no minutes, so she did actively use the WiFi. She
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Speaker 5: would connect anywhere she could could so she could keep
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Speaker 5: in contact with everybody.
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Speaker 1: Hold on just a second, Abby, you cut out on me?
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Speaker 1: Would would you just start that over place. I need
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Speaker 1: to hear every word. Was she using a prepaid phone, yes,
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Speaker 1: through Boost Mobile?
14:02
Speaker 3: Okay, prepaid phone Boost Mobile? Had she run out as
14:08
Speaker 3: minus yes, ma'am.
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Speaker 1: Okay, So let me understand, Brian Fitzgibbons, I don't have
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Speaker 1: a prepaid phone.
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Speaker 3: Explain to me how that works quickly.
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Speaker 9: Whether your phone has minutes or not, it's still communicating
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Speaker 9: to cell phone towers. Anybody who has an old phone
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Speaker 9: knows you can still make an emergency call from it.
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Speaker 9: It's not sending as much information, it's not going to
14:30
Speaker 9: be as precise, but that phone would have still been
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Speaker 9: communicating with cell phone towers urgent.
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Speaker 1: Are you telling me, Brian that even though she was
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Speaker 1: out as minutes, her phone could still be pinged.
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Speaker 10: That is correct, Nancy, That's what.
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Speaker 3: I was getting at.
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Speaker 1: I'm sorry to cut you off, Abby, but that's what
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Speaker 1: I'm trying to find out. To Hey, with the prepaid
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Speaker 1: minutes and the blaw and the blaw, I want to
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Speaker 1: get a ping. I want a ping on this phone.
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Speaker 1: So do you belie Abby, she had simply run out
15:01
Speaker 1: of minutes? Was the phone cut off or was the
15:05
Speaker 1: phone dead at a battery? Because the prepaid aspect is irrelevant.
15:10
Speaker 1: According to Fitzgibbons, Well, like.
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Speaker 5: You said, she was a girly girl, so she would
15:15
Speaker 5: not have a dead phone. It just isn't like her
15:18
Speaker 5: to walk around without a cell phone, especially being as
15:22
Speaker 5: pregnant as she was. It makes no sense.
15:25
Speaker 3: Why she would not have it.
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Speaker 5: Yes, way more responsible than that.
15:30
Speaker 1: When you say she was very responsible to mom Jamie Baum,
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Speaker 1: what do you mean she was more responsible than that.
15:36
Speaker 2: She just was honest. She wouldn't have not called any
15:41
Speaker 2: of us. We talked to her daily. She has a
15:45
Speaker 2: huge family and we all stay connected all the time.
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Speaker 1: Very responsible, a great mom, pregnant nine months Brian, I
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Speaker 1: just want to nail something down, Okay.
15:58
Speaker 3: So if she had her phone with her, and she.
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Speaker 1: Like most of us, is very careful about keeping it charged,
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Speaker 1: it doesn't matter, Brian, if she had run out of minutes,
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Speaker 1: is that correct?
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Speaker 10: That's correct.
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Speaker 9: It changes things a bit because it's not communicating with
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Speaker 9: the towers as much as a phone that has service.
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Speaker 9: So on your phone that has service, you might have
16:22
Speaker 9: one hundred different applications that are communicating out to the.
16:28
Speaker 10: Internet and through the tower all right.
16:30
Speaker 9: When that service is off, you only have that emergency
16:33
Speaker 9: beacon in GPS and the ability to make a call
16:37
Speaker 9: to the cell phone company back to.
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Speaker 3: Sister Abby joining us.
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Speaker 1: Abby, my control room just came into my ear and
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Speaker 1: told me that Emma's father, Jason, actually had to walk
16:50
Speaker 1: out of the room.
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Speaker 3: What happened.
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Speaker 5: It's a lot emotionally, this is one of the hardest
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Speaker 5: things our family has ever dealt with.
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Speaker 3: I own it say.
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Speaker 5: He wants to admit that he feels broken or unable
17:05
Speaker 5: to do anything to help return, and it's this is breaking,
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Speaker 5: It's breaking everybody.
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Speaker 3: He's broken. Isn't your dad a war vet?
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Speaker 9: Yes?
17:17
Speaker 3: Yes? What war was? He him?
17:19
Speaker 5: Iraq much Iraq.
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Speaker 1: So this is a man that's faced the enemy far
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Speaker 1: from home and fought bravely, and he cannot talk about
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Speaker 1: Emma's disappearance.
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Speaker 3: What has this done to him? What has this done
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Speaker 3: to him?
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Speaker 5: He wants to do when it is right, so we
17:39
Speaker 5: can make sure we have the correct justice.
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Speaker 3: And it's just really hard emotionally.
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Speaker 5: He feels like his country has turned to the back
17:46
Speaker 5: on his children, and he has put all the effort
17:50
Speaker 5: into making it safe for everybody, and it's not. It's
17:53
Speaker 5: still not. So it's probably hurting him in a way
17:57
Speaker 5: that none of us will ever understand, but we see it.
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Speaker 1: For those of you joining us and just joining us now,
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Speaker 1: there is a desperate search right now in Gary, Indiana
18:07
Speaker 1: and beyond for a twenty five year old pregnant mom,
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Speaker 1: Emma Baum.
18:13
Speaker 3: Please help us.
18:15
Speaker 8: The search for Bomb has been extensive. Police say three
18:18
Speaker 8: primary locations have come up in the investigation, and those
18:21
Speaker 8: searches have been exhausted. CA nines brought in on the
18:24
Speaker 8: search found nothing. Multiple interviews have been conducted as volunteers
18:28
Speaker 8: search overgrown fields, knock on doors, and pass out flyers.
18:31
Speaker 8: Officers are now scouring old video footage in the area
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Speaker 8: where Bomb went missing.
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Speaker 1: A twenty five year old mother, nine months pregnant is missing.
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Speaker 3: Stunningly, I have learned that the number one.
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Speaker 1: Cause of death amongst pregnant women in the US is homicide.
18:52
Speaker 1: It's not a stroke, it's not blood pressure, it's not
18:55
Speaker 1: a heart attack.
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Speaker 3: It's homicide. When I heard that, I.
19:01
Speaker 1: Actually tracked down the first author, a doctor that wrote that,
19:07
Speaker 1: because I couldn't believe it. As I recall she was
19:09
Speaker 1: with the New England Journal of Medicine. I thought, certainly
19:12
Speaker 1: I had it wrong. I didn't.
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Speaker 3: She didn't. It's true. Look at Emma Baum. Please look
19:21
Speaker 3: at Emma Bahm.
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Speaker 1: I know we tonight sound angry and agitated because we are.
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Speaker 1: She cannot just vanish off the face of the earth.
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Speaker 1: Who saw a nine months pregnant woman, her beautiful Emma.
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Speaker 3: We know that her.
19:42
Speaker 1: Phone should still be pinging, but apparently it's not. We
19:48
Speaker 1: know that, we know there have been searches with canines
19:51
Speaker 1: they found nothing. Volunteers searching overgrown fields, knocking on doors,
19:56
Speaker 1: passing out flyers. We know officers say they are scouring
20:01
Speaker 1: old video footage in the area from which she went missing.
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Speaker 1: No sign of Emma. I don't believe in supernatural reasons
20:12
Speaker 1: for disappearances or reappearances. This is very real, and someone
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Speaker 1: very real and very much alive knows where is Emma?
20:24
Speaker 1: Joining me in All Star Panel. But in addition to Sister Abby,
20:30
Speaker 1: hopefully father Jason can rejoin us. This has triggered so
20:36
Speaker 1: much for him. He is in a rocky.
20:37
Speaker 3: Warvette Crime Stories with Nancy, Grace.
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Speaker 1: Mom, Jamie, and now Sister Page joining us, begging for
20:56
Speaker 1: your help. Back to Lisette Yihan joining us host of
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Speaker 1: Tase Files Chicago, Lisa, I've been looking at the crime
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Speaker 1: rates now. While Indiana itself has one of the lower
21:12
Speaker 1: national crime rates, Gary not so much when it comes
21:16
Speaker 1: to violent crime twenty seventh and violent crime nationally explained.
21:22
Speaker 6: The area of Gary is, you know, very it is
21:26
Speaker 6: very urban, and there is a lot of migration that
21:29
Speaker 6: comes through from the city of Chicago, people that are
21:32
Speaker 6: relocated there to hear. So it's interesting and we know
21:34
Speaker 6: that Chicago has some issues of its own and some
21:37
Speaker 6: of those people come and bring some of those issues.
21:39
Speaker 6: So we were adding that onto the already on top
21:43
Speaker 6: of the issues that Gary's already had. The other problem
21:47
Speaker 6: is is that there is a flight I mean, people
21:49
Speaker 6: aren't living in Gary no more. People aren't putting a
21:51
Speaker 6: lot of businesses there like they used to, and so
21:54
Speaker 6: people are scavenging for jobs. People have to move out
21:57
Speaker 6: to find other jobs. The school system, there's plenty of
22:00
Speaker 6: schools that are not open anymore. In fact, one of
22:03
Speaker 6: them that came into question, Pulaski School, which is a
22:07
Speaker 6: point of interest for police, was set on fire recently,
22:11
Speaker 6: and so we have in addition to abandoned buildings, we
22:14
Speaker 6: have abandoned schools now as well. So that all plays
22:18
Speaker 6: into the part of the crime and the dilapidation of
22:21
Speaker 6: the city of Gary.
22:22
Speaker 1: All of what Lisa just told us is true, but
22:24
Speaker 1: that leaves me still asking where is this beautiful girl?
22:28
Speaker 3: At one centimeter dilation Listen.
22:32
Speaker 8: Emma Bomb comes from a very close, big family with
22:35
Speaker 8: brothers and sisters for just about every day of the week.
22:38
Speaker 8: She loves the closeness they share now as adults, and
22:41
Speaker 8: she's creating her own large family with three children Camden six,
22:45
Speaker 8: Lucas three, Amber, two, and her fourth is on the way.
22:48
Speaker 8: Her sister Abigail says, Emma is energetic, always reaching for
22:52
Speaker 8: the sky like a sunflower, which is her favorite flower.
22:55
Speaker 8: Emma is very creative with her appearance, as she usually
22:58
Speaker 8: wears wigs of all kinds of colors and styles over
23:02
Speaker 8: her naturally brown hair. She never looks the same for
23:05
Speaker 8: very long.
23:06
Speaker 1: Emma's family is desperately pushing for more resources to be
23:10
Speaker 1: put toward finding Emma Listen.
23:13
Speaker 8: Walm's family is pushing for more resources to be given
23:16
Speaker 8: to the search effort. Sister Abby Smith says the family
23:19
Speaker 8: has put their own lives at risk searching abandoned houses
23:21
Speaker 8: and digging dir piles. According to the Gary Police Commander,
23:24
Speaker 8: there are license plate reading cameras and gunshot detection technology,
23:28
Speaker 8: but no police observation device cameras or pod cameras in
23:32
Speaker 8: the area Bomb was last seen in. Another sister, Haileybaum,
23:35
Speaker 8: says she has stopped people in their cars, stop people walking,
23:39
Speaker 8: talking to everyone possible. They're now turning to the public
23:42
Speaker 8: for help. Emma's mother, Jamie Baum, says quote, We're always
23:45
Speaker 8: going to look for I'm never going to stop looking
23:48
Speaker 8: for her.
23:49
Speaker 1: Let me understand, Jamie Baum, this is Emma's mother joining us.
23:53
Speaker 3: You and Abby have been.
23:55
Speaker 1: Stopping cars asking if anyone has seen Emma.
24:00
Speaker 3: Tell me about this.
24:02
Speaker 2: We've been out every day, all day twenty for twenty
24:05
Speaker 2: four seven, walking in the middle of the road, going
24:08
Speaker 2: in houses, just getting anyone that we can, holding her
24:13
Speaker 2: sign up to every window.
24:17
Speaker 1: Does her Page bom joining us in addition to Abby
24:21
Speaker 1: and Jamie Page, tell me about your family's effort on
24:25
Speaker 1: your own without police or sheriffs trying to find Emma.
24:30
Speaker 2: We've been searching every day.
24:34
Speaker 5: We haven't found any answers, but we're gonna do.
24:40
Speaker 3: She keep trying.
24:42
Speaker 1: Abby, tell me about what you what is going through
24:45
Speaker 1: your mind when you're out in the middle of the road,
24:48
Speaker 1: running up to cars saying have you seen my sister
24:52
Speaker 1: and showing her pictures.
24:55
Speaker 5: Hoping that someone is gonna give us an answer, that
24:59
Speaker 5: someone knows something that maybe if they run us over,
25:04
Speaker 5: the look harder because that could be the guy running
25:07
Speaker 5: from the situation.
25:09
Speaker 1: Well, I don't understand why you have to be out
25:12
Speaker 1: going car to car and door to door and in
25:16
Speaker 1: abandoned homes looking for Emma Jamie. Why are your daughters
25:22
Speaker 1: doing the police work.
25:24
Speaker 2: Well, we have to find her somehow, and if we
25:28
Speaker 2: have to do it, that's it's gonna happen. Police aren't
25:31
Speaker 2: out there doing going through houses, so we are.
25:35
Speaker 3: Why why aren't they? Have you asked them.
25:37
Speaker 2: That yes, they said, they said, they say they're doing
25:43
Speaker 2: their job.
25:44
Speaker 3: Joining me is.
25:45
Speaker 1: Greg Morse, high profile trial lawyer, partner at the law
25:49
Speaker 1: firm of King and Morse, Palm Beach. You can find
25:52
Speaker 1: him at kingmorselaw dot com.
25:55
Speaker 3: Greg.
25:55
Speaker 1: Very often you and I are on the different sides
25:57
Speaker 1: of the fence, but I think you agree with me
26:00
Speaker 1: that there's an issue here, a disturbing issue. How can you,
26:04
Speaker 1: without antagonizing or agitating law enforcement, how can you get
26:11
Speaker 1: them to do more? And what do you do as
26:13
Speaker 1: a family. If you're not getting answers, well.
26:17
Speaker 11: It is surprising in this one. I looked into it.
26:20
Speaker 11: What I haven't read the police have been trying to do.
26:24
Speaker 11: This country has license plates readers across the entire work.
26:28
Speaker 11: There's an expressway that borders this There's also a port
26:32
Speaker 11: to Lake Michigan that borders the eye. There's a lot
26:35
Speaker 11: of opportunity for law enforcement to look at technology to
26:40
Speaker 11: shrink the story as to where this young lady was
26:45
Speaker 11: taken or where she went. I surprised a lot of
26:49
Speaker 11: the mainstream media has not given very many details, which
26:53
Speaker 11: police of course hold back some stuff to verify credibility.
26:58
Speaker 10: I get that, But when I look at.
27:00
Speaker 11: This area, that's unfortunately a common area in America, low
27:03
Speaker 11: income area that's forgotten. There's a lot of industry around it.
27:08
Speaker 11: One thing we talk about cell phone towers. That's just
27:12
Speaker 11: one component of what it sells. Cell phones also routinely
27:16
Speaker 11: their bluetooth will ping off of things anywhere they are.
27:20
Speaker 11: There is a lot of data that law enforcement could
27:23
Speaker 11: be looking at, and maybe they are. It sounds like
27:26
Speaker 11: though from the family that they're not. So I don't
27:29
Speaker 11: know how there hasn't been further information. There's a lot
27:33
Speaker 11: of resources they'll go to to try to find where
27:36
Speaker 11: this girl or what happened to lead down that path.
27:40
Speaker 12: The family of Emma Baum says the police have not
27:42
Speaker 12: been helpful in their efforts to find Emma. But police
27:45
Speaker 12: say they have dedicated their search efforts to the three
27:47
Speaker 12: primary locations that have come up during the investigation and
27:51
Speaker 12: are now pivoting the investigation to scour old video footage
27:54
Speaker 12: in the areas where Emma was last seen. The area
27:57
Speaker 12: around Antoine Butler's.
27:59
Speaker 1: House, area around the Bio Dad's home is the beginning
28:04
Speaker 1: where she was last seen before according to him, she
28:07
Speaker 1: left that area. But the family has made it known
28:13
Speaker 1: that the Geary PD was not helpful to them and
28:18
Speaker 1: their search for Emma. Now a new detective with Lake
28:24
Speaker 1: County Homicide. Lake County Homicide is on the case and
28:28
Speaker 1: they feel rejuvenated. They feel that someone cares about their case.
28:36
Speaker 1: Detective Gordon's number is two one nine seven five five
28:40
Speaker 1: three eight five five repeat two one nine seven five
28:45
Speaker 1: five three eight fivey five. When this goes to air tonight,
28:48
Speaker 1: please have that number emblazoned on a screen so people
28:51
Speaker 1: can see it. To Jamie Baum. Explain to me why
28:56
Speaker 1: you felt that the Gary, Indiana police their feet you
29:00
Speaker 1: know what.
29:01
Speaker 3: Let me ask you a question.
29:03
Speaker 1: According to a report given to me, one of the Gary,
29:09
Speaker 1: Indiana police said to you, when Emma went missing, well,
29:14
Speaker 1: if she's dead in a dumpster, you'll never find her.
29:17
Speaker 3: Did not happen. I'm going to confirm that with you, Yes, ma'am,
29:21
Speaker 3: I did.
29:22
Speaker 2: He told he had told my daughter that if she
29:28
Speaker 2: was gone to would not be found, and that hurt
29:32
Speaker 2: my family.
29:37
Speaker 1: I understand that after that you feel renewed hope because
29:46
Speaker 1: Lake County Homicide, specifically Detective Gordon.
29:50
Speaker 3: Is now on the case.
29:51
Speaker 1: May I ask you what led the Gary, Indiana Police
29:55
Speaker 1: officer to tell you in the midst of the search
29:58
Speaker 1: of Emma, nine months pregnant, Yeah, she's dead in a dumpster,
30:01
Speaker 1: you'll never find her.
30:02
Speaker 3: What brought that on?
30:05
Speaker 5: Somebody had give us some information and I had called
30:10
Speaker 5: and asked to pass it on to him. I asked
30:13
Speaker 5: him if he wanted it, I had it all nicely
30:16
Speaker 5: where he could read it with the times and no
30:18
Speaker 5: questions asked, No, cutting it.
30:20
Speaker 3: Off perfectly, here you go. And he told me no,
30:25
Speaker 3: not only did he not.
30:26
Speaker 5: Need it, that if that was accurate, we would never
30:30
Speaker 5: be able to find her. If she was domed and
30:33
Speaker 5: shoot a garbage dump.
30:42
Speaker 3: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.
30:48
Speaker 1: To Brian Fitzgibbons, Director Operations USP, a nationwide security specialty
30:54
Speaker 1: finding missing people. You know, in the midst of an investigation,
30:58
Speaker 1: I've had victims families give me a lot of information
31:02
Speaker 1: and sometimes I knew immediately it was not going to
31:05
Speaker 1: be pertinent to the investigation, Like two years ago.
31:09
Speaker 3: She got a hang up phone call, just an example.
31:13
Speaker 1: But you don't tell the family. I don't need your information.
31:17
Speaker 1: She's probably dead in a dumpster and you'll never find her.
31:20
Speaker 3: Well what was he thinking?
31:23
Speaker 9: Yeah, this defies logic, Nancy, And to the family, I'm
31:27
Speaker 9: so sorry that you know, you had to hear that.
31:31
Speaker 10: It's very troubling to hear that.
31:33
Speaker 1: I mean, you take the information and you may believe, well,
31:37
Speaker 1: this is not pertinent, but you don't say.
31:40
Speaker 3: That to a victim's family.
31:42
Speaker 1: You take the information, you review it, you look at it,
31:47
Speaker 1: you study it and determine if it is.
31:49
Speaker 3: Or is not relevant. But to say that to a.
31:52
Speaker 1: Family with they are the ones out looking in abandoned homes.
31:56
Speaker 3: They are the ones digging through.
31:58
Speaker 1: Feels high in grass. They are the ones out in
32:01
Speaker 1: the street asking drivers to help them. Joining me right
32:08
Speaker 1: now is a renowned forensic psychologist, doctor Sherry Schwartz. You
32:13
Speaker 1: can find her at panthermitigation dot com. Doctor Sherry. I
32:19
Speaker 1: recall the feeling of helplessness when my fiance was murdered.
32:25
Speaker 1: There was nothing I could do.
32:27
Speaker 3: Nothing. That is a feeling you never get over.
32:34
Speaker 1: This family has felt they had no ally, that no
32:37
Speaker 1: one was helping them.
32:41
Speaker 3: That can destroy you. Saw the father have to get
32:45
Speaker 3: up and leave.
32:47
Speaker 1: Jason couldn't even listen because he feels so helpless.
32:55
Speaker 3: What is that?
32:55
Speaker 1: How can we fight that so the family can get
32:58
Speaker 1: back on track and find Emma.
33:00
Speaker 7: Well, first of all, I want to say to the family,
33:03
Speaker 7: how sorry I am for everything that you're going through.
33:05
Speaker 7: For Jason, for dad, and for mom, and even for
33:09
Speaker 7: the siblings. You can see the overwhelming sense of fear
33:13
Speaker 7: and helplessness and frustration that they can't get the help
33:17
Speaker 7: that they need from the people that we turn to
33:20
Speaker 7: to get help. They're being told, well, you know she's dead,
33:24
Speaker 7: she might be in a dumpster somewhere and you'll never
33:27
Speaker 7: find her. But what they're failing to understand is that
33:31
Speaker 7: nobody knows if she's dead, and if they don't go
33:34
Speaker 7: out and investigate, then we're not going to know. And
33:37
Speaker 7: it's not just missing Emma. There's a baby, possibly right
33:41
Speaker 7: and infant baby that's missing. So from my position, there's
33:44
Speaker 7: two people missing here. And for the family, you guys
33:48
Speaker 7: are doing, from my perspective, everything that you can possibly do.
33:52
Speaker 7: Just continue to stick together, that's really really important, and
33:56
Speaker 7: support each other. Try to overcome your feelings of guilt
34:00
Speaker 7: because you're not doing anything wrong and you didn't do
34:02
Speaker 7: anything to cause this.
34:03
Speaker 1: Sound guys, this has been dragging on for weeks the
34:07
Speaker 1: disappearance of Emma Baum, and in that time, wild fantastical
34:13
Speaker 1: theories have have emerged.
34:16
Speaker 3: Listen.
34:16
Speaker 8: Bobby Joe Sten is eight months pregnant. Lisa Montgomery lies
34:20
Speaker 8: to her saying she wants to buy one of her puppies.
34:23
Speaker 8: Montgomery drives from Melbourne, Kansas to Bobby Joe's home in Skidmore, Missouri.
34:27
Speaker 8: Montgomery strangles the mom to be and cuts the baby
34:31
Speaker 8: from her stomach. Lisa Montgomery is arrested the next day.
34:34
Speaker 8: The baby girl lives and is now a teenager living
34:37
Speaker 8: with her dad.
34:38
Speaker 3: You think that's fantastical.
34:39
Speaker 1: It was actually floated as a defense theory, and the
34:43
Speaker 1: Scott Peterson murder trial dead Lacy Peterson an unborn child Connor.
34:52
Speaker 1: These fantastical theories are not helping in the search for Emma,
34:56
Speaker 1: but yet they continue, such as comparing the case to
35:00
Speaker 1: a teen girl Marlon at to Lopez.
35:03
Speaker 8: Nineteen year old Marlon and Joe Lopez is lured to
35:05
Speaker 8: the home of Desiree and Clarissa Figueroa with the promise
35:09
Speaker 8: of baby clothes. Once there, prosecutors say Clarissa got on
35:12
Speaker 8: top of Marlin, continuing to strangle her for up to
35:15
Speaker 8: five minutes. After researching how long it would take for
35:18
Speaker 8: someone to die that way, they allegedly cut the baby
35:21
Speaker 8: from Marlin's body, stuffed her in a plastic bag in
35:24
Speaker 8: a hidden garbage can outside. Clarissa then claimed the baby,
35:27
Speaker 8: with the umbilical cord and placentas still attached, was hers.
35:31
Speaker 8: Her boyfriend is accused of helping to hide the murder
35:33
Speaker 8: and evidence at the home.
35:35
Speaker 12: On Friday, October eleventh, Emma Baum does not reach out
35:38
Speaker 12: to her family members, even though they are expecting her
35:41
Speaker 12: to come home. Emma has a phone, but it is
35:44
Speaker 12: out of minutes, telling her mother not to worry, she
35:46
Speaker 12: is getting minutes.
35:47
Speaker 10: Put on the phone.
35:48
Speaker 13: On Friday, Emma said she would be back on Friday
35:50
Speaker 13: to do something with her six year old son, Camden.
35:53
Speaker 13: She doesn't show and doesn't call. The family waits through
35:56
Speaker 13: Saturday for Emma to come back, and when she isn't
35:59
Speaker 13: home by Sunday, her mother calls Antoine Butler. Antoine told
36:02
Speaker 13: Emma's mother, Jamie Baum, that he saw her leave with
36:06
Speaker 13: some girl in a car.
36:07
Speaker 1: What look, when my husband has to go out of
36:11
Speaker 1: town for work or he has to go somewhere.
36:15
Speaker 3: I think I know where he's going and what he's doing.
36:18
Speaker 3: Same thing with my children. What does this mean?
36:21
Speaker 1: The BF, the bio dad boyfriend says he quote saw
36:27
Speaker 1: her leave with some girl in a car. Li set
36:32
Speaker 1: Gian joining US investigative reporters, host of Case Files Chicago.
36:38
Speaker 3: Li set again, let me understand.
36:41
Speaker 1: That is the level of detail I've got from the
36:44
Speaker 1: boyfriend that she left with quote.
36:47
Speaker 3: Some girl in a car.
36:50
Speaker 5: That's it.
36:51
Speaker 3: That's it, Nancy.
36:51
Speaker 6: And that's where the frustration lies is there's very little details.
36:55
Speaker 1: Okay, hold on just a moment, Jamie Baum. This is
36:57
Speaker 1: Emma's mother has.
36:58
Speaker 3: The boyfriend and helping to look for Emma.
37:02
Speaker 2: No, and his family has never reached out either.
37:06
Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't like the way that smells to Greg
37:08
Speaker 1: Moore joining me, high profile lawyer at King Morse as
37:13
Speaker 1: a silk stocking law firm out of Palm Beach County. Greg,
37:18
Speaker 1: When I look at a statement or I evaluate the
37:22
Speaker 1: credibility of a witness, I look to see if their
37:26
Speaker 1: statement is quote rich in detail. I can tell you
37:30
Speaker 1: exactly what my son was wearing when he left for
37:33
Speaker 1: school this morning, exactly, and I know what vehicle he
37:37
Speaker 1: was driving. I can tell you exactly what my daughter
37:40
Speaker 1: was wearing, what vehicle she was in, right down to
37:42
Speaker 1: their backpacks, their tote bags, and their water bottles.
37:46
Speaker 3: What is this gibberish? Some girl, a girl in a car? What?
37:52
Speaker 10: Well?
37:53
Speaker 11: Not everybody remembers the same detail as everyone else. However,
37:59
Speaker 11: five years and practicing law and handling every type of case,
38:03
Speaker 11: these type of general statements that don't aren't made in completion.
38:08
Speaker 11: Where the car went here, I knew the person was coming.
38:11
Speaker 11: The police generally look at that as suspect. They're not credible.
38:14
Speaker 11: And as I mentioned before, why isn't there information about
38:19
Speaker 11: this potential car? Why aren't there people looking into where
38:22
Speaker 11: this car go? It's a very easy thing to follow
38:24
Speaker 11: for police.
38:25
Speaker 1: So of course, yes, I hear you say. Not everybody
38:29
Speaker 1: remembers details. Did you say that.
38:32
Speaker 10: I did say that, Nancy. Not everybody remembers the same
38:34
Speaker 10: all differently.
38:35
Speaker 3: My fiance Keith was murdered decades ago.
38:40
Speaker 1: I can remember right now what he was wearing, blue Jayson,
38:43
Speaker 1: a denim shirt.
38:44
Speaker 3: He was going to work on a construction crew. He
38:46
Speaker 3: was driving a white.
38:47
Speaker 1: Lamon's and as he left, he hung his left arm
38:52
Speaker 1: out the wind and wave goodbye to me. I remember it,
38:55
Speaker 1: crystal clear. It's branded on my brain.
39:01
Speaker 3: Jamie. Do you remember the last time you saw Emma. Yes,
39:08
Speaker 3: she was wearing what did she say.
39:11
Speaker 2: Black clothing, She had her bag strapped around, she had
39:15
Speaker 2: her purse strapped around her chest, and she get the
39:19
Speaker 2: huge bye.
39:20
Speaker 6: So this should be home Toarrow.
39:22
Speaker 1: That makes says, I understand that you represent a lot
39:29
Speaker 1: of clients, but that is total bs man that he
39:33
Speaker 1: all he knows is she left with some girl in
39:36
Speaker 1: a car.
39:37
Speaker 3: Technical legal term. I don't know if you use that
39:39
Speaker 3: at King and Morse, but that's BS.
39:43
Speaker 1: And I'm calling him out on this another thing, another thing.
39:47
Speaker 3: I don't like. It's the last time she's seen.
39:51
Speaker 1: It's at his house, Abby Smith, this is Emma's sister,
39:56
Speaker 1: isn't that true?
39:58
Speaker 5: That is correct? Our sister Jaden and Jewel dropped her off,
40:02
Speaker 5: poor sure at that house to meet her boyfriend.
40:05
Speaker 1: Now, I don't want to make an issue of this
40:07
Speaker 1: because this is a side issue, it's a collateral issue.
40:10
Speaker 1: But I'm curious. I'm very curious, Abby, This BS boyfriend,
40:16
Speaker 1: Antoine Butler. Was he supportive of the pregnancy?
40:21
Speaker 3: Was he helping her?
40:22
Speaker 1: No?
40:22
Speaker 5: There had been multiple times that he had asked her
40:25
Speaker 5: to get an abortion, and that is a bath. He
40:28
Speaker 5: didn't want it.
40:29
Speaker 2: Well.
40:30
Speaker 5: When mfone oue she was going into labor, she just
40:32
Speaker 5: wanted to go more or less, make sure it confirm
40:35
Speaker 5: and decide. She decided that no matter what, she was
40:38
Speaker 5: going to keep the baby and it was going to
40:40
Speaker 5: make her a better person. And then if you didn't
40:43
Speaker 5: want to be a part of it, that she needed
40:46
Speaker 5: to figure it out prior to fully going into labor.
40:49
Speaker 1: So no money, he's not supporting her, He's not excited
40:54
Speaker 1: about the baby. He wants her to have an abortion,
40:57
Speaker 1: you know what, all of that moral flaws.
41:00
Speaker 3: That does not make him a kidnapper or a murderer.
41:03
Speaker 1: However, I'm very concerned about the fact, Brian Fitzgibbons uspa
41:12
Speaker 1: that that's where she's last seen. That doesn't bother you,
41:16
Speaker 1: and nobody can tell me what kind of car she
41:19
Speaker 1: left in, or where she went or anything.
41:21
Speaker 9: It's absolutely disturbing, Nancy. A vague statement like that, coupled with,
41:26
Speaker 9: you know, potentially a motive that he didn't want her
41:30
Speaker 9: to have the baby, and that she's having this conversation
41:34
Speaker 9: as she's about to go into labor dilated a centimeter.
41:40
Speaker 9: You know that that was the purpose of this conversation.
41:44
Speaker 9: So all of this adds up to be very suspicious.
41:47
Speaker 3: Jamie, why did she go over to his place?
41:52
Speaker 2: I tried to keep her. I tried to ask her
41:54
Speaker 2: not to you she wanted to talk with him over
41:57
Speaker 2: about the baby's fighting.
42:03
Speaker 1: Doctor Serry Schwartz, what we women go through to try
42:07
Speaker 1: to have the Hallmark Christmas card? You know, we want
42:13
Speaker 1: the house stick, we want the house. We want the
42:15
Speaker 1: husband or the partner, we want the children, we want
42:20
Speaker 1: the Turkey dinner, we want the Christmas tree.
42:25
Speaker 3: We want it the.
42:27
Speaker 1: Way we have grown up to think it should be right.
42:32
Speaker 1: And I've got a feeling Emma wanted that she wanted
42:38
Speaker 1: the bio dad to want the baby be part of
42:41
Speaker 1: the life, be a family, and was going over to
42:47
Speaker 1: probably try to convince him of that.
42:49
Speaker 7: I'm sure for Emma she probably couldn't imagine that he
42:53
Speaker 7: didn't feel the same way she felt in terms of
42:55
Speaker 7: wanting to have this baby and parent this baby. And
42:59
Speaker 7: so that's one of the difficulties. You're absolutely right, this
43:02
Speaker 7: is what we crave. She's about to give birth, and
43:05
Speaker 7: she wants to talk to them and say, don't you
43:08
Speaker 7: want to be a part of this amazing child's life.
43:11
Speaker 2: I think you hurt my baby. And when you find
43:15
Speaker 2: your shoes out.
43:22
Speaker 1: The family in so much pain now out flagging down cars,
43:28
Speaker 1: going to abandoned buildings, walking through fields, begging for volunteers.
43:33
Speaker 3: That from our friends at ABC seven.
43:36
Speaker 1: The boyfriend, the bio dad in this case, Antoine Butler,
43:40
Speaker 1: has not been named a formal suspect in the disappearance
43:45
Speaker 1: of Emma. Emma Baum just twenty five years old, nine
43:51
Speaker 1: months pregnant, and today I join with her family asking
43:57
Speaker 1: for your help tip line to Detective Gordon two one
44:01
Speaker 1: nine seven five five three eight five five or one
44:07
Speaker 1: eight hundred You tell us one eight hundred eight eight three, five,
44:12
Speaker 1: five eight seven. To Emma's mother, Jamie Baum, Jamie, what
44:19
Speaker 1: is your message tonight? If Emma can hear you?
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Speaker 2: Baby? We love you, watch your home. We'll miss you,
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Speaker 2: searching for you. We will not stop until we find you.
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Speaker 2: I love you, everybody loves you.
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Speaker 3: We'll find you again.
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Speaker 1: The tip line one eight hundred You tell Us or
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Speaker 1: two one nine seven five five three eight five five.
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Speaker 3: We wait for justice. Two Unfold. Nancy Grace signing off,
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Speaker 3: goodbye friend