Latest / The Wholehearted Enneagram Podcast / The Power of Hope | a conversation with Rosemary Jones

Transcript

The Power of Hope | a conversation with Rosemary Jones · The Wholehearted Enneagram Podcast

• 0:02
  SPEAKER_01: Hi friends, welcome back to the Simply Wholehearted Podcast.
• 0:05
  SPEAKER_01: And if you are new around here, I'm so glad you've joined us.
• 0:09
  SPEAKER_01: Here at Simply Wholehearted, we are sharing our journey as we discover how to better love the Lord with all of our heart, soul, mind, and strength.
• 0:17
  SPEAKER_01: And even though you might be surrounded by a world of half-heartedness, we hope to inspire you to living wholeheartedly as our friends share their stories and simple ideas of how they practice reach over perfection in their everyday.
• 0:30
  SPEAKER_01: Besides getting to hear from today's guest, I'm going to answer more of your Aneagram questions.
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_01: You'll want to make sure to hear after our conversation.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_01: If you followed us for a little bit, you've heard me talk and share about the collective.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_01: The Simply Wholehearted Collective is a group of women who have joined me in growing and sharing this message of living, pursuing, and reaching for the Lord with everything we've got.
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_01: Katie Roselli has been a collective member since early spring of this year.
• 0:55
  SPEAKER_01: And she was also a guest for episode number 59.
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_01: If you haven't yet heard it, definitely take a listen.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_01: And you'll understand why she's been a pillar of encouragement and wisdom in my life.
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_01: So when she recommended her friend Rosemary Jones to be on the podcast, I was all ears.
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_01: Now Rose and I have had the privilege to connect via the gift of Voxer at a profound moment, one that was greater than we could have understood just a few months ago.
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_01: During the short season of our friendship, she lost her mom due to a stroke she suffered on the last day of their family vacation.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_01: You can imagine how difficult this was.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_01: And all Katie and I could do was send prayers and God's word through Voxer.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_01: So even though we had lined up a conversation to share God's story about Rose surviving a brain tumor, you'll hear the beginnings of a newer story.
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_01: I was worried this conversation would be too soon.
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_01: But I think we captured some raw and rich moments that would have been lost if we had waited for the story to be further along.
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_01: So you'll hear about her journey and how it looks to live with new grief and the power of hope.
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_01: Trust me, you'll want to take a listen.
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_02: We can pretend we're at the coffee shop.
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_01: That's exactly what we're doing.
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_01: And isn't like, I mean, that's the thing about Voxer, though, it's a little bit, it takes some training, right?
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_01: It takes some practice.
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_01: But like we've gotten to share some intense things, deep things through Boxer.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_01: Even if it's a one-sided monologue or a a quick text or a picture.
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_01: And so it's yeah, it's been good.
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_02: Well, God has definitely expanded the circle.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, exactly.
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_01: This is the way it works.
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_01: So here's the meeting stone.
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so remind me what year it was that um you discovered, the doctors discovered that you had um a brain tumor, and then tell us some of the events leading up to it.
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, um, in 2012, um I I was diagnosed with a type 2 meningioma.
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_02: It's an oil factory groove meningioma, which just means it was right beside behind my um eyes and my nasal cavity, but between my two frontal lobes.
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_02: Wow.
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_02: So it's about the size of my fist um or a small orange.
• 3:33
  SPEAKER_01: That is huge.
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_01: And you didn't feel it?
• 3:36
  SPEAKER_02: No, I had no indication that was there.
• 3:38
  SPEAKER_02: I've actually gone on vacation and um when I was packing the car at like a rest area, I had um slammed the car door or the trunk of the car on my head.
• 3:51
  SPEAKER_01: Um not my brightest moment, but um I'm pretty sure we can all attest to a few of those in our lives.
• 3:58
  SPEAKER_02: Looking back at that, I look at that as kind of God's provision of allowing it to happen because through the diagnosis process of a herniated disc, um, I because I started having headaches related to that, like hitting my head there.
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I got diagnosed with a herniated disc and started treatments for that.
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_02: This was after several months of kind of going to different doctors to figure out what's going on.
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_02: Um, when they went to treat the herniated disc with like an electrotherapy thing at um physical therapy, I came home with probably the worst headache I've I've ever experienced.
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_02: And it lasted um several days.
• 4:39
  SPEAKER_02: And so I went back and I told them I was like something's not right.
• 4:43
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, this is not working.
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_02: And I and I, you know, at this point you feel like you're crazy, like you must be crazy.
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_01: There's no um, but they Yeah, because you go in and out of doctors.
• 4:54
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I've gone through it before, unfortunately, recently again, too, where you just go back and forth and you go get all these different opinions, you meet with these different people, and you do.
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_01: You walk away going, Finally, if they if it's not something obvious, you're like, It's just me.
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_01: I'm making it up.
• 5:11
  SPEAKER_01: I'm hypocrite.
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
• 5:14
  SPEAKER_02: Maybe it's because I have six kids, but well, at the time I only had four, so that's the best.
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_01: Well, you've got to share the names because that's too good to be.
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_02: Well, we have presidents, but um I love it.
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_02: We have Ray Reagan, McKinley, Madison, Monroe, and then um our two little boys are um Washington and Lincoln.
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_01: And I love the fact your girls had a say in that and demanded to keep the tradition going.
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_02: We weren't gonna name boys um after presidents, but the girls were like first boy, first president, and you know, we've been the presidents for they had been for seven years, so they were like, we're not going to change that.
• 5:52
  SPEAKER_01: Don't don't change this now.
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_01: And I think what's even better that illustrates your all's personality and just maybe a little glimpse into your smartness too, but y'all made this as a plan ahead of time.
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_01: So this is very purposed and intentional.
• 6:07
  SPEAKER_02: We are planners, that is one thing.
• 6:09
  SPEAKER_02: And in 2012, we did not plan what happened, and it kind of like threw us for a loop.
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_02: And so um, we had a doctor that stood up for you know, believed in and fought insurance even to get more testing done, and through that process, they found the um the brain tumor, which was not what we expected.
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_02: We she even thought that she would go in and find something related to the injury, like a kind of like a bruising or something.
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_02: But um, that's when they found the brain tumor.
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_02: They were shocked that it was the size that it was, and that I had not started to have seizures because in the location it would have been in that that would have been the symptom.
• 6:47
  SPEAKER_01: That would have been the next step.
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_01: So, but just somehow miraculously you never had seizures, you know.
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_01: Because you like I think about driving in the car with kids, like that that would be a terrible thing.
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_01: Were we just even like for your kids to witness and jump on?
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_02: Definitely.
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_02: And we talk about that all the time, how thankful we are that we never that that it was revealed and it went out.
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 7:11
  SPEAKER_02: I had been sleeping, like I wanted like a mid-afternoon nap.
• 7:15
  SPEAKER_02: Um, it was and I also had some uh anger, I guess, that like um that I was unresolved anger that had no real purpose or reason.
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_02: And now looking back, I can say, you know, I could attribute that to having four small children, right?
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, you're you're exhausted, and because you're exhausted, you're irritable.
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_02: Totally.
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but now looking back, I think that that was somewhat related to the brain tumor as well.
• 7:45
  SPEAKER_01: So wow.
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_01: So you find out you have a brain tumor.
• 7:49
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, what do you guys do?
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_01: What was the like response for you and your husband and your family?
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_02: Um, well, we kind of I we went into planning mode, or I went into maintenance kind of planning mode.
• 8:01
  SPEAKER_02: And uh you when you get a phone call within hours of getting home from an MRI, that's um not normally a good sign.
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_02: And so we very quickly went into um, you know, what's the next step?
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_02: And we had just come away from a weekend away at my in-laws' house, and so the car was already packed, and so we just loaded the kids back up in the car and we drove back to their house so that they could watch the kids while we went to the doctor's appointment the next day.
• 8:27
  SPEAKER_00: Wow.
• 8:27
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and all the way there, my husband and I were just kind of trying to process, you know, well, what does this mean?
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_02: And what do you do?
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_02: And and we have a three-year-olds, twin three-year-olds at the time, and a four-year-old and a seven-year-old, like, what does life look like?
• 8:43
  SPEAKER_02: And yeah, it's already really hard, and then you add this.
• 8:46
  SPEAKER_02: When we were talking on the way home, my husband said he wanted to go visit a friend at um at a local church in uh where his parents live.
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_02: And I faith has always been an active part of my life, but right then I was in kind of like stay in control mode.
• 9:03
  SPEAKER_02: And so um I said, Well, that's that's fine.
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_02: You can I think I think you should go do that, but I have no interest.
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_02: And um, we got back to his parents' house and we were telling them what they were gonna do, and I said, I really think you should go, but I really I'm I'm not going.
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I'm just I don't need to talk to anyone, I'm not going.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_02: And I probably said it a dozen times, and finally I was just I thought, you know what?
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_02: What do you fight most?
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_02: The thing that you're supposed to do.
• 9:31
  SPEAKER_02: And I and I thought, you know what?
• 9:33
  SPEAKER_02: That's ex that's exactly what I need to do.
• 9:35
  SPEAKER_02: I've I'm trying to convince myself that I don't.
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_02: And so I uh I said, I'll go, but I'm not gonna talk to anybody.
• 9:44
  SPEAKER_02: So Right.
• 9:45
  SPEAKER_02: Don't make me get to meet anybody.
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_02: I'll be present, but just please let um Mike know not to say anything to me.
• 9:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 9:53
  SPEAKER_00: So leave me alone.
• 9:55
  unknown: Yes.
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_02: So we got there and uh he respected that.
• 9:59
  SPEAKER_02: And when I um when they went off into his office to talk, I went into the um sanctuary and I wasn't in there for more than a second before um the tears just started to fall.
• 10:12
  SPEAKER_02: And I it was a moment where I kind of you can no longer be in control because the Lord knew what my soul wanted to say even when I didn't have words for it.
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_02: And so the tears just fell.
• 10:26
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm not a crier, like it's not something that comes naturally to me, and because I think I stay in control, probably.
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_02: But um I so it was a it was very unlike me for that to happen, I guess is why to be so undone, yeah.
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_02: And so the first coherent thought that came through that process was thank you.
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_02: Like I started crying, and then all you know, everything was incoherent through the tears, and my soul soul was crying out.
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_02: And then the first coherent thought was thank you, and I thought, thank you.
• 11:03
  SPEAKER_02: I was like, and it was thank you for finding it.
• 11:08
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you for um it not, you know, having caused something worse, you know, for my children, and you know, thank you for um and looking back, I I think you know, that wasn't up.
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_02: Like that that's not something I could have conjured up in that time frame.
• 11:29
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_02: That was the Lord pulling out all the pain and all the fear, and then I think turning my heart back towards gratitude.
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, you think about the Psalms and David.
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, that's what he models throughout the Psalms is you know, these people are out to kill me, and or I hate the situation I'm in, or you know, woe is me.
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_02: But by the end of it, it's it's thank you for being faithful, thank you for being loving.
• 11:59
  SPEAKER_02: Your love endures forever.
• 12:01
  SPEAKER_02: Like there is nothing, you know, there's there's new mercies each morning.
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_02: Like so that kind of became the model of how I survived that period.
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_02: Because whenever there was a new emotion that I was experiencing, I tend to kind of throw it all on the paper, the anger or my fear or whatever was going on.
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_02: And then by the end of it, the Lord would have shaped it and taken it back to, you know, but you're still, but I'm still here.
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_02: But beautiful, but I'm still faithful and all is still good, even when it doesn't look good on the outside.
• 12:41
  SPEAKER_01: Wow, that's powerful.
• 12:43
  SPEAKER_01: And you go to this church and the Lord meets you in a proud profound way.
• 12:47
  SPEAKER_01: Um you have an opportunity to get some space, but then then what's next?
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, you still you have a life to lead, but you have a brain tumor.
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_01: What what did you do?
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_02: Well, we got diagnosed.
• 12:59
  SPEAKER_02: Um, this was all um, I guess my first meeting with the doctor um was around October, middle of October was like when the diagnosis came.
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_01: So surgery was what was that?
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_01: Uh six years ago almost exactly then?
• 13:15
  SPEAKER_02: Um 2012.
• 13:17
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, six years ago.
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, the fall always kind of brings back um it's almost like my body knows what really so it's getting better, but the first couple of years definitely, like I I would kind of get these emotional swings.
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, it was almost like when the weather would start to shift, it was like my body knew what trauma had interesting.
• 13:37
  SPEAKER_01: But um I have that problem with a month of the year, and I'll probably share that at another point in time.
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_01: But it's it's been a big deal for most of my life, and I've just um acknowledged it like two years ago, really found victory last year, and I'm excited to face it.
• 13:53
  SPEAKER_01: But it's real, like there is something.
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know what it is.
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_02: There's some connection there that is obviously spiritual, but definitely well, and so October 15th, uh, and then my surgery was November 9th.
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_02: Okay so it all kind of happened super fast.
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_02: Soon they was urgent enough that it needed to happen soon.
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_02: Um now the waiting period I was put on high doses of steroids that um that was to reduce the brain swelling and prepare my body for surgery.
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_02: Um because of that, it made it so that I gained 30 pounds in in a two-month period.
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_01: That is crushing.
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_01: That is so crushing.
• 14:34
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I also um was up at all hours of the night.
• 14:38
  SPEAKER_02: My husband would say the house was the cleanest it had ever been.
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_02: Because I was I was sorting drawers at two o'clock.
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_01: Oh man.
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, what do you do at 2 a.m.
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_01: Yes?
• 14:49
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I don't know that I'd be sorting drawers, so maybe that's unique to you.
• 14:53
  SPEAKER_02: Well, no, um steroids kind of make me jittery.
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_02: And so like I just needed something to like be active, yeah.
• 14:59
  SPEAKER_01: There was no sitting and writing for you.
• 15:01
  SPEAKER_02: No, well, I did do some of that, but um I we had night um both my husband and I were both kind of like we had nightmares.
• 15:09
  SPEAKER_02: If different, um you know, mine my I would wake up sometimes in the middle of the night just in tears, and a lot of that can be attributed to the drugs, but then I think also just the stress of what was going on.
• 15:21
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
• 15:23
  SPEAKER_02: Um but I'd say all of that to say, um, oh well, and so my husband and I walked two very different journeys through this process, and he talks about how he would he prayed for the surgeon that we would know exactly which like this was we were in good hands, and he prayed that he he said, I don't have to like him.
• 15:47
  SPEAKER_02: He was like, But Lord, just show me that he's capable of what he can do.
• 15:51
  SPEAKER_02: And so when we went to meet the surgeon, um my he was pretty cocky, actually.
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_02: Which I think that like even after I met the surgeon that my um that took care of my mom as well, and I think surgeons just kind of have to have a confidence.
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah they have to kind of like exude this confidence because what they do is incredibly difficult, you know.
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and so I've offered him grace at this point.
• 16:18
  SPEAKER_02: That's just how surgeons are.
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_02: But my first response was um was not good.
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_02: And I when I left when I left his office, I was in tears, and I told my husband, I said I don't mind.
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_02: And he goes, but there was one point during the appointment that my husband asked him, he said, Um, I just need you to tell me you can do it.
• 16:40
  SPEAKER_02: And the and and the surgeon kind of sat back in his chair and he said, No, I've got this.
• 16:45
  SPEAKER_02: Wow I know I know exactly what to do.
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_02: Like, you know, and I took that as like arrogance and cockiness, yeah.
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_02: And my husband left and he goes, The Lord answered my prayers.
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_02: Like I asked him, I said, you know, he just needs to prove to me that he he can handle it.
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_02: And so I tell you all that to say we walked very different, you know, paths and trust and conversations with the Lord through that even.
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_01: But um yeah, he was building your faith simultaneously, you walking through it as the patient and him walking alongside of you as someone who was his life, you know, was invested in this.
• 17:27
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 17:28
  SPEAKER_02: So once we got the surgery date and we kind of it was a waiting game, um, we were just blessed.
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_02: I call them my angels, but we were just blessed by an outpouring of um support from our community.
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_02: And um I can look back to the ways that God kind of laid the groundwork for that from the beginning.
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_02: We were actually in between churches.
• 17:52
  SPEAKER_02: We had um we were looking for a church closer to our home, and um, and so we still had the support and prayer network of the church that we had that we were had left, and then we also now had this new community where we kind of very only vaguely knew the people there.
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_02: Well, the this new community they provided us with a Thanksgiving meal.
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_02: There was a women's bible study and that strangers, people that didn't know me, they brought us Thanksgiving dinner because that was after surgery, but I was not fully back to myself until the end of January.
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_00: Oh wow.
• 18:31
  SPEAKER_02: And even after that, I was probably not emotionally or I mean it probably took a full year after that to you know to really be back.
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_02: Um well I sometimes I say I don't know that I ever completely went back to normal because I think God makes you into someone new.
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 18:55
  SPEAKER_02: And you then have to like kind of get used to that that new shell or new skin and what that looks like in in day-to-day life.
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, but um but he provided in so many ways, and uh you know, there was one night I was uh I woke up in tears.
• 19:11
  SPEAKER_02: Um and I the first thought, it was kind of like a moment like in the sanctuary.
• 19:19
  SPEAKER_02: One of those first thoughts was how can I keep from singing?
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_02: And I thought, what?
• 19:26
  SPEAKER_02: And so I went into the bathroom and I sat against the wall, and it's probably like three o'clock in the morning, and that song, the Chris Tomlin song, How Can I Keep From Singing?
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_02: I knew it enough, but I didn't know the lyrics.
• 19:39
  SPEAKER_02: And so I looked up the lyrics on my phone, and um, there's a part in it where it says, I I sing the songs you give.
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_02: And um when I and when I read through that, I thought that's exactly like God gave me that song when He knew I needed it to point me back to Him.
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_02: And so I just sat on the floor of the bathroom and I just listened to that song on my phone over and over, like saying, you know what?
• 20:10
  SPEAKER_02: I don't like my situation, I don't know how it's gonna turn out, I don't know what it means for my children, I don't know what it means for my husband.
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_02: All I know is that how can I keep from singing your praises because you are here and because you gave me a song that my heart needed at the time, not that something I could have come up with on my own, but or even thought of in a coherent thought on my own.
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_02: There was no doubt he gave it to me.
• 20:37
  SPEAKER_02: And so I just sat there and soaked in it for a long time.
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_02: He used music um during that time for us a lot.
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_02: Like whenever my husband and I would be having nightmares, we would take um hymns or praise music and turn it on our phones and just lay it on our chest um while we were trying to sleep.
• 20:57
  SPEAKER_02: It gave us something to focus on so that we could clear our minds enough to relax enough to sleep.
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_02: Sometimes my husband wouldn't even wake up, and I'd just take the phone, and he was obviously like kind of restless in his sleep, and I would lay it on his chest and just let his um subconscious soak up.
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_02: And kind of cling to truth um when we couldn't on our own.
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_02: And uh I would say, you know, there were multiple times like that where God just kind of showed up where the right note came at the right time or the right person walked in the door at the right time.
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_02: Um, you know, strangers, church community, um, friends from down the street, just kind of all supporting us in that time.
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, we talked at the beginning about how our network expands.
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_02: And when we're willing to share what we're going through, we can actually open up the opportunity for other people to minister to us in those moments.
• 21:58
  SPEAKER_02: You know, it's not always
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: Easy to accept no, it's not.
• 22:01
  SPEAKER_01: It's so hard.
• 22:03
  SPEAKER_01: We could talk for an hour about that.
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_02: Well, we were just talking to my dad about this the last couple of days about how receiving help is kind of hard.
• 22:13
  SPEAKER_02: How it feels weird to have people providing you with meals and stuff when you're you seem like it could be capable of doing some of these things yourself.
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_02: And um my husband said he heard somebody kind of explain it in the way that when you when you don't allow someone else to help you, it's almost like robbing them of the their treasures in heaven.
• 22:33
  SPEAKER_02: Like if if they're they feel called to help you, then then you should you know let them accept them minister to you.
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_01: That is so beautiful in itself because I I this is again a scarcity thing, and I'm trying to decide how much to blabber on about it.
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_01: But there was a huge revelation that the Lord took a very common, overused sometimes Bible story and actually highlighted for me it was a scarcity.
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_01: The root of this was scarcity because this person was afraid to ask.
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_01: And I am that person.
• 23:15
  SPEAKER_01: I am afraid to ask.
• 23:16
  SPEAKER_01: I'm afraid to ask for help ultimately because I'm afraid there won't there won't be help on the other side.
• 23:24
  SPEAKER_01: But I think the Lord, I've never been disappointed yet.
• 23:27
  SPEAKER_01: Even if the first person I asked for help couldn't, suddenly there was like, oh, I I do need help.
• 23:33
  SPEAKER_01: It would be foolishness to do this alone.
• 23:35
  SPEAKER_01: And the Lord brings someone else who can.
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_01: And and they're always wanting to, and even if they can't, it's oh I can't this time, but I want to next time.
• 23:44
  SPEAKER_01: And I know that's how I feel, but somehow I can't seem to like get it through my thick skull most of the time that people feel the same way, that they just they want the opportunity to help, and I'm stealing their opportunity to to serve and help and bless the Lord and bless me and enrich our friendship because now that I've asked and gotten through that hurdle and they're able to help me, the trust that's built in that, the like the closeness and just the rapport of asking and receiving is just really powerful.
• 24:19
  SPEAKER_02: Well, just the understanding that you know we don't always have to have it all together.
• 24:24
  SPEAKER_02: And what what good does it do to give off this persona that I have it all together?
• 24:29
  SPEAKER_02: Because I know I don't have it all together, and if I don't have it all together, she probably doesn't have it all together either.
• 24:36
  SPEAKER_02: And like, you know, like it I could just admit that I don't have it all together and risk risk be vulnerable and risk, you know, you you do risk uh totally judgment or or whatever else, but you also open yourself up to being ministered to and to into relatability with someone.
• 24:57
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I've heard friends say all the time, I'm so glad you admitted that because you know, I've just that's something I struggle with too.
• 25:04
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and you know, but none of us want to admit it because we don't want to admit that we need help, you know, or that that this is that that you can't handle it yourself.
• 25:15
  SPEAKER_01: And when I'm tough for people like us because we're used to being the helpers, and so when we're actually in need of help or we're like, wait a minute, I actually don't have it all together.
• 25:26
  SPEAKER_01: A little help here would be good.
• 25:28
  SPEAKER_01: It's a big deal.
• 25:30
  SPEAKER_02: I think the other one another lesson I kind of learned through this process was that the transparency and kind of telling people what you're going through.
• 25:39
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I if you want to read about what I walked through and kind of all my raw emotions, it's on inside roseshead.com um just for a little bit longer.
• 25:51
  SPEAKER_02: It's gonna be shifting there.
• 25:52
  SPEAKER_01: But um Yeah, I'm excited to see what you guys are gonna do.
• 25:56
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and um but the by throwing it all out there, the the good, the bad, and the ugly, I kind of was able to relate to people at a different level.
• 26:06
  SPEAKER_02: Like, you know, my first response, and that's the response the enemy wants to have is are you really gonna say that?
• 26:12
  SPEAKER_02: Like, are you really gonna compess with the fact that like you know you're struggling with the fact that that that you're getting weight?
• 26:20
  SPEAKER_02: Like, are you gonna really throw out the fact that you're angry with God?
• 26:23
  SPEAKER_02: Like, is that something you really want people to know about you?
• 26:26
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and and and that's always my first response, you know, is or that's always the enemy's first tactic.
• 26:35
  SPEAKER_02: Are you sure?
• 26:36
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you know, don't don't you want to say anything?
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 26:41
  SPEAKER_02: And um, but the Lord always follows up with um an outpouring of expanding your um network, right?
• 26:49
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_02: There were times through this season where I was carrying sometimes my emotions were unpredictable and I I was kind of all over the place.
• 26:59
  SPEAKER_02: But during the season, because I was transparent with my needs and my struggles and kind of like faith and clinging to the Lord, and I'd say clinging, I mean it was like white knuckle clinging, like just like holding on for dear life.
• 27:12
  SPEAKER_02: Um, because I was honest with those things, um, the Lord kind of placed people in my life that had been in my life for a long time but had not admitted some of their own struggles.
• 27:25
  SPEAKER_02: And so He was able to put people that then I could pray for them as they were praying for me.
• 27:31
  SPEAKER_02: And so then my burden, my eyes go off of myself onto someone else's needs, and um, and I'm able to minister in that that regards as well.
• 27:42
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that's good, yeah.
• 27:44
  SPEAKER_02: That when we don't when we carry it all super strong and and don't open ourselves up to vulnerability that or transparency, you don't know what the rest of the you don't know what somebody else is carrying either.
• 28:00
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 28:00
  SPEAKER_02: And so I don't know.
• 28:03
  SPEAKER_02: That was something I I feel very passionate about now.
• 28:06
  SPEAKER_02: It's just this idea that you really have no idea.
• 28:09
  SPEAKER_02: You have no idea what somebody else is walking through the world with, and the only way we find out is when we're willing to be vulnerable and transparent and weak almost um in front of somebody else so that they feel comfortable enough to do the same.
• 28:23
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, to go me too.
• 28:25
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I'm I'm also struggling with something similar, or you know, oh well, if that's the case for you, then maybe you'll understand what it is that I'm going through.
• 28:35
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's awesome.
• 28:37
  SPEAKER_01: All right.
• 28:37
  SPEAKER_01: Well, you have the surgery in November, it really takes a year to recover, and it's a new normal.
• 28:45
  SPEAKER_01: What what happens after that?
• 28:46
  SPEAKER_01: Because you only had four girls before the surgery.
• 28:50
  SPEAKER_01: Now you have six kids.
• 28:57
  SPEAKER_02: I really felt like his presence and his power in a way that I'd never done before.
• 29:01
  SPEAKER_02: And um, you know, when I came out on the other side, I I told my husband, I said, I just don't want to forget things.
• 29:08
  SPEAKER_02: I don't want to live, I want this to change who we are.
• 29:11
  SPEAKER_02: Like I want it to be so much a part of that I taste God's um presence uh m uh more and and daily.
• 29:22
  SPEAKER_02: And so I kind of went into but I but I have to confess I kind of started taking control again.
• 29:29
  SPEAKER_02: Sure.
• 29:29
  SPEAKER_02: Because I went into it with a vengeance, I was ready to live at 110.
• 29:36
  SPEAKER_02: You know, God had granted me, so the tumor was removed, it was diagnosed with type two, which means it's a precancerous, possibly reoccurring, but not um cancers.
• 29:49
  SPEAKER_02: So that's good news, but not great news.
• 29:52
  SPEAKER_02: No.
• 29:52
  SPEAKER_02: So what it meant for me is that every six months I was gonna have an MRI to guarantee that it wouldn't that it wasn't coming back.
• 30:01
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 30:01
  SPEAKER_01: Um Are you still on that that season of having to go every six months?
• 30:05
  SPEAKER_02: I go every year now.
• 30:07
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 30:07
  SPEAKER_02: So um and we've passed the five year mark, which is always a good kind of landmark.
• 30:12
  SPEAKER_02: If you have it hasn't had reoccurrence within five years, it's the likely it won't, but it's not guaranteed.
• 30:18
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 30:20
  SPEAKER_02: I asked my doctor um once, I said, I'm at a new doctor now, and he's an older guy, and I said, Um, you know, so how often, you know, like at what point does this like stop?
• 30:30
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 30:31
  SPEAKER_02: He basically confessed, he goes, I'll be retired before you're done, you know.
• 30:37
  SPEAKER_01: Darn it.
• 30:38
  SPEAKER_02: I was like, okay, yeah.
• 30:42
  SPEAKER_02: But I look at that as I can something I can be thankful for.
• 30:46
  SPEAKER_02: One of the ways that God reminded me and and reminds me yearly of his faithfulness is this yearly check.
• 30:53
  SPEAKER_02: You know, it brings me back to say, Don't forget.
• 30:56
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, don't forget that I was there for you, and I'm still gonna be there for you.
• 31:00
  SPEAKER_02: And it's sometimes it brings back a little bit of anxiety too.
• 31:03
  SPEAKER_02: You can have to wait for the results, but in the same regards, it's this um healthy reminder that he is faithful and he will continue to be faithful.
• 31:12
  SPEAKER_02: And don't forget what happened six years ago because I haven't forgotten and I want it to be you know evident to you that I am still here and present and powerful.
• 31:22
  SPEAKER_02: And so that's how I look at the daily uh the yearly checks.
• 31:26
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's good.
• 31:27
  SPEAKER_02: I kind of went into my husband and I both went into life at 110 and um we started looking at things like you know, we can't say one day anymore.
• 31:38
  SPEAKER_02: You can't say one day this because at um let's see, I don't want to confess my age, but you know, it was early 30s.
• 31:48
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 31:48
  SPEAKER_02: You think you're gonna live forever.
• 31:52
  SPEAKER_02: But if something like this could happen to me in my early 30s, you know, then then what what what does that mean for you know life looking out?
• 32:01
  SPEAKER_02: So you don't want to put anything off.
• 32:03
  SPEAKER_02: That's kind of a new perspective we had on life.
• 32:05
  SPEAKER_02: You don't put things off for any reason.
• 32:07
  SPEAKER_02: And my husband and I are logical, very planning, thoughtful people.
• 32:11
  SPEAKER_02: And um the other thing we learned is sometimes you have to take a step of of faith or a risk before you really feel God's uh abundance or his his power in this situation.
• 32:23
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 32:23
  SPEAKER_02: Um, right before all of this happened, my husband had actually quit his full-time job and had started um doing photography full-time and working from home.
• 32:31
  SPEAKER_02: This was back in the summer of 2012.
• 32:33
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 32:34
  SPEAKER_02: Looking back, we look at that as God's provision of him being able to be present.
• 32:39
  SPEAKER_02: He was he went from working 60 hours a week to working from home.
• 32:42
  SPEAKER_02: Wow.
• 32:42
  SPEAKER_02: And he was now able to go to all the doctor's appointments and be there when we were going through everything together.
• 32:49
  SPEAKER_02: And um, I we know now that that was God providing in ahead.
• 32:54
  SPEAKER_02: That was a risk, that was a step of faith.
• 32:56
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
• 32:56
  SPEAKER_02: Saying we have four kids and we're gonna follow God's nudge to to pursue this business, even though we don't know where it's gonna go.
• 33:03
  SPEAKER_02: Now, since then, we don't have a full-time photography business anymore.
• 33:07
  SPEAKER_02: He then had a contracting business that he did on his own and now works for a university.
• 33:12
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and we look at it's kind of God just, but if we'd never taken a step, we'd still be in Northern Virginia, probably working 60 hours a week doing the same old thing.
• 33:22
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 33:23
  SPEAKER_02: And um the other thing is that we sat on the back porch one day and we said, you know, um, we don't we never really wanted to raise our kids up here.
• 33:32
  SPEAKER_02: That was always something that was important to us.
• 33:34
  SPEAKER_02: We never, this is not where we planned to stay.
• 33:37
  SPEAKER_02: And so we don't we decided not to wait for one day anymore.
• 33:41
  SPEAKER_02: And so we um we were prayerful about kind of God's timing, but we knew that we didn't want to stay in in northern Virginia, and so we just really prayed over um what that meant.
• 33:52
  SPEAKER_02: And in November, we kind of got this nudge that just go ahead, let's just go ahead and put the house in the market.
• 33:57
  SPEAKER_02: We don't have anywhere to go really yet.
• 33:59
  SPEAKER_02: We have a piece of land that we're looking at, but we hadn't settled on it.
• 34:02
  SPEAKER_02: Or like, so we have no house.
• 34:04
  SPEAKER_02: We're just it it was just you know what God's saying, trust me.
• 34:08
  SPEAKER_02: And we kind of learned even with this business that sometimes you have to step out before you see where you're headed.
• 34:13
  SPEAKER_02: And so we um put the house in the market.
• 34:16
  SPEAKER_02: We actually went on vacation for Thanksgiving.
• 34:19
  SPEAKER_02: Before we got to my parents' house, we already um started, we had a couple of offers on the house.
• 34:25
  SPEAKER_00: Oh wow.
• 34:26
  SPEAKER_02: Within 24 hours of being gone, we had sold the house.
• 34:29
  SPEAKER_01: That's amazing.
• 34:30
  SPEAKER_01: And it was like the best way with the mom of many have it clean and sold while you're gone.
• 34:37
  SPEAKER_02: And it was one of those things where I was like, okay, well, I guess this is what we were supposed to do, right?
• 34:41
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, like if the door wasn't shut, the door was flung wide open.
• 34:44
  SPEAKER_02: Wide open.
• 34:45
  SPEAKER_02: And so now we're homeless.
• 34:47
  SPEAKER_02: We're um vacation.
• 34:53
  SPEAKER_02: Before we got home from um vacation, we actually had worked on drafting up the house plans for building because the contract we were putting on the piece of land was contingent on us having house plans.
• 35:05
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, okay.
• 35:06
  SPEAKER_02: And so um we did all of that while we were away.
• 35:09
  SPEAKER_02: Um we got home and um we moved out right after Christmas.
• 35:14
  SPEAKER_02: By the first of January, we were living with Rob's parents.
• 35:18
  SPEAKER_00: Oh wow.
• 35:19
  SPEAKER_02: Um and so we um lived with them for nine months while we built a house, and then now we've been blessed with.
• 35:28
  SPEAKER_02: We have um we went from a townhouse to now 52 acres with um, you know, a small house that we can um grow our family and explore and have fun, kind of set up a little homestead in in this area.
• 35:43
  SPEAKER_01: So that's awesome.
• 35:44
  SPEAKER_01: Another reason I got a visit.
• 35:45
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, it sounds awesome.
• 35:48
  SPEAKER_02: With all that said, we learn risks, right?
• 35:50
  SPEAKER_02: We learn that life isn't logical and that we can't always plan, and that often God's plans are not our plans, and that's it.
• 35:56
  SPEAKER_01: And we're so much better.
• 35:58
  SPEAKER_02: We talked in our church once about we called it illogical love, you know, this idea that like you know, God's love and his abundance doesn't make sense most of the time.
• 36:08
  SPEAKER_02: Like it's just it's it's illogical, and but often he calls us into the into the risk so that we can experience his abundance, and that's what we've kind of seen through this process.
• 36:20
  SPEAKER_02: But when I was in the hospital with a brain tumor, my husband said, I never want to see you here again.
• 36:24
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I don't want to see you here for good, bad, or you know, no bill, no more babies, we're done because this is I don't want to see what we're doing.
• 36:33
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, and so now that was for children, and that's it.
• 36:39
  SPEAKER_01: There's two more.
• 36:40
  SPEAKER_02: But we moved, and um, I guess we went to a homeschool conference, and my husband and I always kind of like do our own thing at the homeschool conference, and then when we come away, we say, Well, what's your takeaway?
• 36:52
  SPEAKER_02: What's the thing that you know that God's kind of directing you for our school?
• 36:56
  SPEAKER_02: And we went to the homeschool conference in 2015, and um my husband said, I don't want to tell you my takeaway.
• 37:05
  SPEAKER_02: And I said, Why?
• 37:06
  SPEAKER_02: And he goes, Because I don't think you'll believe me.
• 37:09
  SPEAKER_02: And I and I said, I said, Well, that's interesting.
• 37:12
  SPEAKER_02: And so he said, I think we're supposed to have more kids.
• 37:16
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, wow.
• 37:18
  SPEAKER_02: And I thought, that's really strange because I had the same thought, but I just missed it because you're the one that said no more.
• 37:25
  SPEAKER_02: No more.
• 37:26
  SPEAKER_02: And so we opened the door for there to be more children, if that would be God's will.
• 37:32
  SPEAKER_02: And um, we prayed about it, and it seemed like every um every Bible passage we were reading were about quivers filled with heroes of children, you know, like all the signs, all every sermon had some sort of you know, blessings of the generations or whatever.
• 37:49
  SPEAKER_02: It's like, Lord, we get the point.
• 37:51
  SPEAKER_02: And so we you know, there was a seven-year gap there.
• 37:55
  SPEAKER_02: Our our youngest at the time were um were seven years old, and so and twins to boot.
• 38:02
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, after having twins.
• 38:04
  SPEAKER_02: It's like, are we gonna start this process again?
• 38:06
  SPEAKER_02: Like, this is not logical, like we're on a path to be early into nesters, right?
• 38:11
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 38:12
  SPEAKER_02: But um, the Lord was persistent and um we felt comfortable with that, and so uh we were then blessed with our first um son, actually.
• 38:22
  SPEAKER_02: And um, after having four daughters, um now to have a son was a wholly, wholly different experience and um blessing.
• 38:30
  SPEAKER_01: It is.
• 38:31
  SPEAKER_01: And so it's such a gift.
• 38:32
  SPEAKER_01: I love having a boy.
• 38:34
  SPEAKER_02: We uh we were careful through the whole process and we're pretty sure we just wanted the one, but um, I actually ended up having a miscarriage when he was nine months old.
• 38:44
  SPEAKER_02: Um and after that my husband and I talked and we were we were just you know, we didn't quite feel like our family was complete.
• 38:52
  SPEAKER_02: And so um we had our our last son five months ago.
• 38:57
  SPEAKER_01: Wow, that's amazing.
• 39:00
  SPEAKER_01: You guys are incredible.
• 39:01
  SPEAKER_02: Another one of those examples of just uh trusting the Lord and taking a risk and um doing what doesn't seem logical or whatnot we part when we got married, we were gonna have two kids, and that was it.
• 39:15
  SPEAKER_01: Wow, you guys have come a long way.
• 39:18
  SPEAKER_02: We also were never gonna drive a minivan while we do that too.
• 39:21
  SPEAKER_02: And I don't think we were ever gonna really live out in the country, but guess what?
• 39:24
  SPEAKER_01: There you are.
• 39:25
  SPEAKER_02: So never say never because that's normally where the Lord shows us.
• 39:30
  SPEAKER_01: It's so true.
• 39:31
  SPEAKER_01: He likes to flip things around a little bit.
• 39:34
  SPEAKER_01: Well, in my kingdom, things look different.
• 39:37
  SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
• 39:38
  SPEAKER_01: That's awesome.
• 39:39
  SPEAKER_02: But we feel very blessed, and like I said, you know, even when um I think that's probably the biggest lesson is remembering that even when you don't think you can find something to be thankful for, or even when you don't think there's a blessing in it, um you gotta look for it because it's there and he's there.
• 40:03
  SPEAKER_02: And um, you know, m my mother passed away with this month and um you know, having relived having gone through 2012 and uh the brain tumor and so forth and all the lessons live there.
• 40:19
  SPEAKER_02: I can say that it was harder to to set my mind on things above in the last month than it has been in a really long time.
• 40:26
  SPEAKER_02: And um but remembering God's faithfulness, I could say that even in this even in this season, which I don't know where it's headed yet, you know, like even in this grief, which I don't know what that looks like or how it's unfolding, even in that that he has shown up in really powerful ways.
• 40:50
  SPEAKER_02: Like with words um that he has put on my heart, you know, to write, or scriptures that he's shown up with, or friends from when I was like 30 years ago that have um come up alongside us through this time and people I haven't seen in really long time.
• 41:10
  SPEAKER_02: He is faithful and and he is present and um you know my mom is blessed enough to be able to see his face right now.
• 41:21
  SPEAKER_02: And when we you know, I one of the things I learned in 2012 is that um I'd rather be in heaven.
• 41:28
  SPEAKER_02: But there's so much pain here.
• 41:30
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 41:31
  SPEAKER_02: And um I never understood how people could say that because I thought there's so much, I mean, there we would miss out on so much, you know.
• 41:38
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 41:39
  SPEAKER_02: But um but during that time by tasting God's power and his presence and his very obvious um provision during that time I got a taste of what it felt like to have heaven here on earth, and I thought, you know what, I would rather have the full glory of it and be there with him.
• 41:59
  SPEAKER_01: Better is one day in your house than a thousand elsewhere, right?
• 42:03
  SPEAKER_02: You said that my mom actually wrote that down on a note card and we found it in her house um just this past week.
• 42:11
  SPEAKER_02: Um we I actually laid it out at her funeral, and I think, you know, if we could only cling, if we can cling to that, I think you know, nobody wants a diagnosis, nobody wants to lose a loved one too early, nobody wants um you know, any of the pain that this life brings.
• 42:30
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 42:31
  SPEAKER_02: But but better is one day in your house than a thousand elsewhere, you know.
• 42:35
  SPEAKER_02: But how can I keep from singing?
• 42:38
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you know, how can I keep from praising your name?
• 42:41
  SPEAKER_02: Because it doesn't matter what this life throws at us.
• 42:45
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 42:46
  SPEAKER_02: He is faithful, his love endures forever.
• 42:49
  SPEAKER_02: You know, the Bible passage we read at her funeral was Psalm 136.
• 42:54
  SPEAKER_02: His love endures forever, his love endures forever.
• 42:57
  SPEAKER_02: Every verse, it reminds us, no matter what's going on, his love endures for endures forever.
• 43:02
  SPEAKER_02: It doesn't matter what's going on in your life, what's going on in politics, what's going on in, you know, the your family or or your work situation, his love endures forever.
• 43:16
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 43:17
  SPEAKER_01: There is really so much to take away from what Rose has learned and lived through in her experience.
• 43:22
  SPEAKER_01: I pray you will take a few minutes to see what the Lord has spoken to you through her words today.
• 43:28
  SPEAKER_01: As Rose shared about their trial and how it helped them sift through their perspective of someday, I wanted our meaningful minute to give some room for you to think about your someday.
• 43:40
  SPEAKER_01: So, we're gonna combine our spirit, mind, and body into one practice for this week.
• 43:46
  SPEAKER_01: A dear friend of mine, Sarah Markman, taught me this tradition, the one that I'm gonna share with you today, years ago.
• 43:52
  SPEAKER_01: And I love it.
• 43:54
  SPEAKER_01: It really, I don't know, it just changed a perspective for me.
• 43:58
  SPEAKER_01: Something that Takes a longer story to unfold, but what she loves to do for birthdays is to ask what your current hopes, wishes, and dreams are.
• 44:09
  SPEAKER_01: And because it's this week's meaningful minute, you don't have to wait for a special celebration to ask these questions.
• 44:15
  SPEAKER_01: I want you to do it right now, this week, even maybe right after you finish this episode.
• 44:21
  SPEAKER_01: So to define this a little bit more for you, you are asking yourself and those you love what is their hope, which is something they are currently praying for or maybe even pursuing to become, you know, a fruition in their life.
• 44:36
  SPEAKER_01: You're asking what their wish is.
• 44:39
  SPEAKER_01: What is something frivolous and fun, maybe like a vacation or a shopping spree or something they would love to wish for.
• 44:47
  SPEAKER_01: And then you're gonna ask them about their dreams.
• 44:49
  SPEAKER_01: Their dream is that thing, you know, the big thing that you give maybe a little bit of thought to most days.
• 44:57
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe it's getting married, your dream job, a month-long sabbatical, or even your own house.
• 45:03
  SPEAKER_01: It could be a great deal of wonderful things.
• 45:07
  SPEAKER_01: I think sometimes we need to give ourselves and others more opportunity to ask these questions and then walk them out a bit.
• 45:14
  SPEAKER_01: It's good to see if it's something the Lord may have put in your heart for this season.
• 45:19
  SPEAKER_01: There is power in the spoken word, and sometimes even when we share these things, we realize how much we actually want them, and perhaps they are closer than we thought they were.
• 45:30
  SPEAKER_01: As you include your loved ones in this conversation, I think we'd be so glad you asked these.
• 45:36
  SPEAKER_01: I'd love to know if you tried any of these meaningful moments and what you thought of the process.
• 45:39
  SPEAKER_01: Tag us on Instagram or Facebook, or just jot us a note.
• 45:43
  SPEAKER_01: We always love hearing from you.
• 45:46
  SPEAKER_01: Now we're going to answer one of your Aneagram coaching questions, which if you didn't know, you can still submit your questions through our link in the show notes, or reach out to simply wholehearted or me, Amy Wicks, on the socials.
• 46:00
  SPEAKER_01: This week's question is going to be a two-parter again.
• 46:04
  SPEAKER_01: And even then I'll just scratch the surface, but this is when I get asked often.
• 46:10
  SPEAKER_01: So, the question is, I can barely determine my anneagram number, and then I hear this talk about wings.
• 46:18
  SPEAKER_01: I'm using air quotes here.
• 46:19
  SPEAKER_01: What does that mean and why does it matter?
• 46:23
  SPEAKER_01: Alright, if you are starting your Anneagram journey, you'll quickly realize there is more than meets the eye when it comes to gathering information and learning about what the anneagram is all about.
• 46:33
  SPEAKER_01: It would seem there is layer after layer in this personality process, and you are correct.
• 46:39
  SPEAKER_01: Especially if you are finding it difficult to pinpoint your number, you might find this talk about wings frustrating.
• 46:46
  SPEAKER_01: But bear with me because wings could give you a key to what your core number actually is.
• 46:52
  SPEAKER_01: So, according to me, this is according to Amy, there are four rules about wings.
• 46:58
  SPEAKER_01: All these rules will help you better understand what the wings are and how they could help you.
• 47:04
  SPEAKER_01: So, rule number one, your wing can only be the numbers or one of the numbers right beside your core number.
• 47:12
  SPEAKER_01: If you look at the nine-point circle, and if you are a nine, your wing can only be an eight or a one.
• 47:21
  SPEAKER_01: If you are anneagram six, your wing can only be a five or a seven.
• 47:27
  SPEAKER_01: So you can't really be an aneogram two with a wing seven, but if you identify closely with two numbers that have no wing connection, I would encourage you to see those as the two numbers you're going to do more research on to see if one of those two are your core numbers.
• 47:46
  SPEAKER_01: Next month I'll share more about the concept of lines of growth because there are connections to numbers across the nine-point circle, but those are not your wings.
• 47:57
  SPEAKER_01: I know, don't get too frustrated, I promise.
• 47:59
  SPEAKER_01: This is really great.
• 48:01
  SPEAKER_01: Rule number two wings can help you determine your core number.
• 48:06
  SPEAKER_01: Now, some of the resources I shared last week explain what the core number combined with a wing might look like.
• 48:13
  SPEAKER_01: As in a 6 wing 7 is going to be more outgoing and daring versus a 6 wing 5, who's going to be more introverted and cautious?
• 48:24
  SPEAKER_01: That's a quick summary, but you can see how this might help give more clarity to your core number.
• 48:30
  SPEAKER_01: Next week I'll share about my rule 3 and 4, which are about how many wings you might possibly have and whether or not you can change this about yourself.
• 48:41
  SPEAKER_01: Ooh, can you change a number?
• 48:44
  SPEAKER_01: Remember, you can find us on Instagram and Facebook where you can share our conversations, meaningful minutes, and helpful resources to all your friends and family.
• 48:53
  SPEAKER_01: We love it when you share.
• 48:55
  SPEAKER_01: So until next week, join us on the socials as we continue on our journey to living simply, wholehearted.