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Judge Slams 'EMPIRE' Star's Appeal for Conviction of Faking Hate Crime on Self · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:05
Speaker 1: Crime stories with Nancy Greace.
0:14
Speaker 2: It never ends with this guy. Here is a guy
0:17
Speaker 2: with fame. He is a TV star money. He's making
0:23
Speaker 2: millions of dollars tens of thousands of dollars per episode
0:28
Speaker 2: on the hit TV program Empire. Many argue he's handsome,
0:36
Speaker 2: well educated, loving family. But Jesse Smollette will not go away.
0:43
Speaker 2: Don't tell me you don't remember Jesse Smollette. I will
0:46
Speaker 2: never forget this guy. All that money, all that fame,
0:51
Speaker 2: but he wants more. So he launches a fake, a
0:57
Speaker 2: fake racist hate crime on himself, has two of his
1:03
Speaker 2: friends conduct the fake hate crime, and now he's mad
1:09
Speaker 2: that nobody believes him. As a matter of fact, he
1:12
Speaker 2: was convicted in the last hour. A judge has to
1:16
Speaker 2: step in. An Illinois court slaps down the Empire star
1:21
Speaker 2: Jesse Smollette's appeal against his disorderly conduct conviction, meaning he
1:27
Speaker 2: will have to spend wait for it, a whopping one
1:31
Speaker 2: hundred and fifty days behind bars. Okay, who could forget
1:39
Speaker 2: the time and money, the angst, the confusion, the pain,
1:45
Speaker 2: the emotion caused by this TV star. Jesse Smollett's claim
1:51
Speaker 2: that anti gay, racist hate crime was perpetrated on him,
1:58
Speaker 2: and then it turns out he did it to himself.
2:02
Speaker 2: Uh what to make more money from empire. He was
2:06
Speaker 2: convicted on five counts disorderly conduct. He could have gotten
2:09
Speaker 2: a lot worse. He was sent to one hundred and
2:11
Speaker 2: fifty days in jail, thirty months on probation, one hundred
2:15
Speaker 2: and twenty thousand dollars restitution to Chicago, and a twenty
2:20
Speaker 2: five thousand dollars fine. Wait for it, Smolett only served
2:27
Speaker 2: six days behind bars, flining and complaining and crying. He
2:33
Speaker 2: was released when his lawyer filed an appeal. It's called
2:38
Speaker 2: an appeal bond. I've never seen one granted in all
2:42
Speaker 2: the cases I tried. That means after you're convicted, you
2:45
Speaker 2: don't go to jail, you get out of jail, and
2:48
Speaker 2: you wait for an appeals court to rule on your case. Seriously.
2:54
Speaker 2: Well it happened and he got out. Well now he's
2:56
Speaker 2: going back. But what was the case all about? I
3:02
Speaker 2: want you to listen to this from the Today Show.
3:06
Speaker 2: Not suicidal and our innicent.
3:09
Speaker 3: I could have said that I was guilty.
3:10
Speaker 4: A long time ago.
3:11
Speaker 3: Even after a Cook County judge sentenced Jusse Smilett to
3:15
Speaker 3: one hundred and fifty days in jail, the disgraced actor
3:18
Speaker 3: turned convicted felon, sticking to his story.
3:21
Speaker 4: If I did this, then it means that I sucked
3:23
Speaker 4: my fist in the fears of blackhamers in the.
3:25
Speaker 3: Spectry for over four hundred years. The former Empire Star's
3:28
Speaker 3: unwavering claim of innocence ultimately his undoing.
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Speaker 5: You committed hour upon hour upon hour.
3:35
Speaker 2: Of pure perjury.
3:37
Speaker 3: Judge James Lynn, sentencing Smelet to thirty months felony probation,
3:41
Speaker 3: including that jail time, ordering he paid more than one
3:44
Speaker 3: hundred and twenty thousand dollars in restitution to the City
3:47
Speaker 3: of Chicago and pay the maximum fine twenty five thousand dollars.
3:52
Speaker 6: You've turned your life upside down fire misconduct in Shenanigan's.
3:57
Speaker 5: You've destroyed your life as you knew it.
3:59
Speaker 3: As a defiance, Malette was taken into custody, his family
4:02
Speaker 3: blasting the judge's decision.
4:04
Speaker 2: He's the reason why folks aren't gonna report hate crimes.
4:06
Speaker 2: They're the reason why folks aren't going to report hate crimes. Okay,
4:10
Speaker 2: you heard Jesse Smilett going down swinging, lying through his
4:15
Speaker 2: teeth till the end. When you hear that reporter going
4:18
Speaker 2: on and on about thirty months felony probation, probation, that
4:24
Speaker 2: means you're not in jail. This guy, after all he
4:28
Speaker 2: put everyone through, after the disservice he did to real
4:34
Speaker 2: crime victims, he's gonna do about five days behind bars.
4:40
Speaker 2: He got says to one hundred and fifty days, and
4:42
Speaker 2: now he's done about five days. I meansy Grace, this
4:47
Speaker 2: is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us, with
4:50
Speaker 2: me an all star panel. Matthew Mangino, former District Attorney
4:53
Speaker 2: Lawrence County, former Parole Board member, author Executioners Told Doctor
4:59
Speaker 2: Sherry Schwartz for and Sic psychologists specializing in capital crimes.
5:03
Speaker 2: Author of Criminal Behavior and Where Law and Psychology Intersect.
5:08
Speaker 2: Paul Zite, former police commander. Oh, I can't wait to
5:11
Speaker 2: hear what he's going to say, author of Stop Him
5:14
Speaker 2: From Killing Them on Amazon Kindle. But first to Alexis
5:18
Speaker 2: to Restaurant Crime Online dot Com investigative reporter Alexis, you know,
5:23
Speaker 2: the whole thing goes all the way back to his
5:26
Speaker 2: ridiculous claims of a hate crime perpetrated upon him, because
5:32
Speaker 2: he I guess his main thing was that he was
5:35
Speaker 2: gay or because he was black. It was a mixture.
5:39
Speaker 2: When he went out for a three a m subway run.
5:46
Speaker 2: How in the hey has Smolette gotten out after just
5:48
Speaker 2: a few days.
5:49
Speaker 7: So the judge spent almost an hour telling him all
5:54
Speaker 7: of the reasons why he was putting him behind bars.
5:56
Speaker 7: The reason was he was found guilty of five telling
6:00
Speaker 7: count of this orarly conduct for lying to police about
6:03
Speaker 7: the take crime. He says that he was attacked at
6:05
Speaker 7: two o'clock in the morning in Chicago in the dead
6:08
Speaker 7: of winter, absolutely sub freezing weather. Two men, he claimed,
6:12
Speaker 7: wearing red hats that said make America Great Again, MAGA hats.
6:16
Speaker 7: He blamed us on Trump. Said they attacked him and
6:19
Speaker 7: said this is Trump Country and beat him up and
6:21
Speaker 7: tried to hang him by putting a newsover ah. The
6:24
Speaker 7: jury said this was a big, fat lie and found
6:28
Speaker 7: him guilty of lying. So the judge sentences him to jail.
6:32
Speaker 7: He appeals, well, he first asked the judge, can I
6:35
Speaker 7: have an appeal? The judge says no, You're going right
6:37
Speaker 7: to jail.
6:38
Speaker 2: Goes to jail.
6:39
Speaker 7: His lawyers file acclaim with the appellate court and say
6:43
Speaker 7: he has been sentenced to only five months in jail,
6:47
Speaker 7: only five months. We want to appeal this. We're going
6:50
Speaker 7: to drag this appeal out longer than five months. So
6:54
Speaker 7: if you keep our client in for the whole five
6:57
Speaker 7: months and then when it's done, the appeal court overturns
6:59
Speaker 7: a condition, she will have unnecessarily served this time.
7:03
Speaker 2: I don't care. Jesse Smollett hate crime faker walks out
7:09
Speaker 2: of jail after release serving less than a week of
7:13
Speaker 2: just one hundred and fifty days. Hey, does everybody remember
7:18
Speaker 2: when Paris Hilton went to jail and she was going
7:23
Speaker 2: to do what she got, like a six month sentence
7:25
Speaker 2: something like that she did three weeks maybe because the
7:30
Speaker 2: jail was over a crowded. Was that Nicole Ritchie one
7:33
Speaker 2: of them and it was high drama. And the bottom
7:38
Speaker 2: line is when you have a sentence like one hundred
7:40
Speaker 2: and fifty days, you're going to get out really quickly anyway.
7:44
Speaker 2: But to petition the court to get out early after
7:49
Speaker 2: what has gone down, take a listen to our twenty
7:52
Speaker 2: nine Our friend Patrick ELDWOODWGN.
7:57
Speaker 4: Almost three years after he reported being attacked amid homophobic
8:01
Speaker 4: and racial slurs. After Jesse Smolette took the stand in
8:05
Speaker 4: his own defense. While being questioned by his attorney, Smolette
8:09
Speaker 4: described the early morning incident, saying he had gone out
8:12
Speaker 4: to Walgreens to buy eggs, but it was closed, so
8:15
Speaker 4: he opted for a subway sandwich store instead. On his
8:18
Speaker 4: way home, Smolette says he crossed paths with two men
8:21
Speaker 4: wearing ski masks, with one of them yelling racial and
8:24
Speaker 4: homophobic slurs and saying he was in Maga country while
8:28
Speaker 4: recognizing him as an actor on the TV show Empire.
8:32
Speaker 4: Smollette says he threw a punch in his defense but
8:36
Speaker 4: doesn't know if it landed. He fell to the ground
8:39
Speaker 4: and was kicked. He testified that after the attack he
8:42
Speaker 4: didn't even know there was a noose around his neck
8:45
Speaker 4: because quote, I was getting my ass whooped unquote.
8:49
Speaker 2: But yet there were no injuries. He had a time
8:52
Speaker 2: little cut, and I don't know how many pictures he
8:55
Speaker 2: took of it. Now take a listen to our cut
8:57
Speaker 2: thirty three our friend Charlie Demarcy, Chicago.
9:01
Speaker 6: The actor also told the jury that he would do
9:04
Speaker 6: drugs with abel Osindaro and the two had a physical relationship.
9:08
Speaker 6: He said during a bath house encounter, there was some touching.
9:11
Speaker 6: Abel denies those claims.
9:13
Speaker 2: Well, I'm ready to do what I gotta do.
9:15
Speaker 6: It's likely that the case will hinge on whether the
9:17
Speaker 6: jury believes Smolet or brothers Abel and ola Osindaro, who
9:21
Speaker 6: testified Smollett paid them to fake the attack.
9:24
Speaker 2: Right, let me understand something, Alexis Tereschut. The payment was
9:30
Speaker 2: tracked down, wasn't it a check? The payment was tracked down,
9:34
Speaker 2: And he tried to tell the jury that these two
9:37
Speaker 2: guys that he did drugs with, that he went to
9:40
Speaker 2: a bath house with, that he allegedly had rheumatic attachment
9:44
Speaker 2: with sex with, they're the ones that attacked him and
9:47
Speaker 2: there attacked him, and they're the ones he couldn't identify.
9:50
Speaker 2: No wonder the jury didn't believe him exactly.
9:52
Speaker 7: These are guys that he's been friends with for years,
9:55
Speaker 7: and in fact they were known to people on the
9:57
Speaker 7: set of Empire. They are personal trained. But he wrote
10:02
Speaker 7: them a check, an absolute paper trail, undeniable paper trail,
10:06
Speaker 7: even though he says it was for something else made
10:09
Speaker 7: maybe drugs or maybe anything else. He can't really remember.
10:12
Speaker 7: And also he doesn't care because these two he doesn't
10:15
Speaker 7: even know if they were the ones that attacked him,
10:16
Speaker 7: even though they were caught on.
10:18
Speaker 1: Video crime stories with Nancy Grace.
10:35
Speaker 2: Oh yes, in the last hours in Illinois, court slaps
10:38
Speaker 2: down Jesse Smoilett the TV stars appeal against his misdemeanor
10:44
Speaker 2: disorderly conduct convictions, meaning boo hoo, he'll have to spend
10:51
Speaker 2: one hundred and fifty days behind bars. I think you
10:56
Speaker 2: should spend at least that much just for the irritation
10:59
Speaker 2: he's cost me. For beat's sake, the way this thing unfolded. Remember,
11:05
Speaker 2: I think we need a shrink, and we need one
11:07
Speaker 2: pretty quickly. Hate crime faker Empire star Jesse Smolette straight
11:14
Speaker 2: out to doctor Sherry Schwartz. Forensic psychologists joining us, this
11:18
Speaker 2: guy needs a shrink.
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Speaker 8: Well, that does seem to be the consensus, at least
11:24
Speaker 8: in the psychological community, Nancy. Anybody who fakes something like
11:29
Speaker 8: this an illness a crime where they fakes injury, typically
11:34
Speaker 8: what we start to look at is something called factitious disorder.
11:39
Speaker 8: If you think about Munchausen's by proxy, when that's done
11:42
Speaker 8: to other people to get sympathy for yourself, this is
11:45
Speaker 8: kind of where you do it to yourself to get
11:48
Speaker 8: sympathy for yourself. But in this case he might also have,
11:53
Speaker 8: you know, not so much a mental health disorder like
11:57
Speaker 8: that where he's almost sympathetic. But this this might have
12:00
Speaker 8: been for personal gain in terms of promoting some movie
12:04
Speaker 8: project that he was working on to get publicity.
12:07
Speaker 2: Oh he got publicity, doctor Sherry Schwartz didn't. Alexis Terrest, Chuck.
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Speaker 2: But who's ever going to hire him ever?
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Speaker 9: That's the thing.
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Speaker 7: This is his career is absolutely over. Empire was a
12:17
Speaker 7: huge chanceay with his career.
12:20
Speaker 2: What about Lady Justice? Okay, back to you, Alexis Terrest, Chuck.
12:24
Speaker 2: I know you're in Hollywood, and that's your mindset. My
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Speaker 2: mindset is about how hard I thought to prove convictions,
12:34
Speaker 2: to prove cases, put a jury through hen double l
12:39
Speaker 2: missing work, away from your children, away from your home.
12:43
Speaker 2: You know, nothing drives me crazier than have to be
12:46
Speaker 2: away from the twins and there in court all day long.
12:49
Speaker 2: Listen to this guy whined about how bad he's got
12:51
Speaker 2: How much is he getting paid an episode?
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Speaker 7: Alexis two hundred thousand dollars an episode? An episode?
12:58
Speaker 2: Did you hear that? Did you hear that? Fining carrying on?
13:02
Speaker 2: And he's been behind bars what's five times twenty four?
13:06
Speaker 2: Is that one hundred and twenty something. He hasn't even
13:10
Speaker 2: been behind bars two hundred hours and he's out.
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Speaker 7: He has he has walked three The appellate court has
13:19
Speaker 7: three judges. It was not a unanimous decision. It was
13:22
Speaker 7: two to one majority rules. And he walked out of
13:25
Speaker 7: court at eight pm Chicago time in a whole Hollywood production. Again.
13:31
Speaker 7: You know, Jesse has five bodyguards, he has family members,
13:35
Speaker 7: he has defense attorneys, the biggest entourage you've ever seen
13:38
Speaker 7: outside of the TV show Entourage. It's like everything is
13:41
Speaker 7: a Hollywood production for him.
13:43
Speaker 2: Guys, take listen to our cut thirty two our friends
13:45
Speaker 2: from WG.
13:46
Speaker 4: And small Let testified he resisted calling Chicago police because quote,
13:51
Speaker 4: I am a black man in America. I do not
13:54
Speaker 4: trust the police un quote, but later he said responding
13:59
Speaker 4: officers treated him very well. He testified as a gay
14:03
Speaker 4: black man, he felt the incident would emasculate him and
14:06
Speaker 4: hurt his chances for certain types of future acting roles.
14:10
Speaker 4: Earlier in the days, Smollett testified he met the Osandairo
14:14
Speaker 4: brothers through his job on Empire, and that he went
14:17
Speaker 4: to a Chicago bathhouse with one of them where they
14:19
Speaker 4: did drugs and made out. Prosecutors say he recruited the
14:23
Speaker 4: brothers to stage the attack as way to pump up
14:27
Speaker 4: his career.
14:27
Speaker 2: Who knows, because reportedly the motive for the original race
14:32
Speaker 2: attack staging was to drum up here about himself so
14:38
Speaker 2: he would make more money for his role in Empire.
14:44
Speaker 2: You know, all the hours the man hours police put
14:48
Speaker 2: into solving the so called anti gay attack on Smolette
14:55
Speaker 2: and last but not least, basically framing the two Osandero
15:00
Speaker 2: others to take the fall for a fake attack. Let's
15:04
Speaker 2: take another look at the facts. Matthew Manngino, former District
15:07
Speaker 2: Attorney Lawrence County, former Parole Board member, author executioners told,
15:13
Speaker 2: go ahead.
15:14
Speaker 5: This is a class for felony. In most cases in Illinois,
15:18
Speaker 5: this this would be flat probation, no jail time. You know,
15:23
Speaker 5: because he's a Hollywood name, you know, should we treat
15:28
Speaker 5: him more harshly than we would typically other people who
15:32
Speaker 5: file false reports with the police.
15:34
Speaker 2: Okay, wait, who can you name me one person that
15:37
Speaker 2: followed a false report with police in your jurisdiction that
15:41
Speaker 2: took it to a jury trial and claimed he was
15:45
Speaker 2: the victim of a racial and homophobic hate crime.
15:49
Speaker 5: Name one, Well, I'm sure there have been one.
15:54
Speaker 2: Don't tell me, Yeah they haven't. Who did something like this?
15:57
Speaker 5: Well, I don't know really of anybody who who faked
16:00
Speaker 5: their own assault.
16:02
Speaker 2: Their own hate crime.
16:03
Speaker 5: Wouldn't do that their own hate crime because they don't
16:06
Speaker 5: have anything to gain from it.
16:07
Speaker 2: The worst conjuring Matthew Mangino is the news, the news
16:15
Speaker 2: for a black male, sure to have a news put
16:19
Speaker 2: around on his neck, and then we find out, isn't
16:22
Speaker 2: this right Alexis restaurant? And feel free to correct me
16:24
Speaker 2: if I'm wrong. I'd rather know the truth. Didn't it
16:27
Speaker 2: come out that he took the news off and then
16:30
Speaker 2: put it back on so the cops could get it
16:33
Speaker 2: and their body can footage when they came back. He
16:36
Speaker 2: is screwing around with one of the vilest and most
16:39
Speaker 2: hated symbols in our country. What happened to so many
16:44
Speaker 2: black males? Awful awful history? And he conjures that up
16:52
Speaker 2: like an evil magician and puts it on and takes
16:55
Speaker 2: it off for effect. Yes, hell, yeah, that's thee ought
17:00
Speaker 2: to be in jail. Isn't that what happened? Isn't that
17:03
Speaker 2: what happened.
17:03
Speaker 7: Alexis trescu it is, And in fact, he said that
17:08
Speaker 7: these random attackers put this news on him. The brothers
17:12
Speaker 7: were on video at a store buying the rope. They
17:15
Speaker 7: didn't do this of their own, This wasn't their idea.
17:20
Speaker 7: They did this because he told them what to buy,
17:22
Speaker 7: because this would have made the crime more selection.
17:25
Speaker 2: And Matthew Mangino, I mean a renowned lawyer and author,
17:30
Speaker 2: former district attorney now private lawyer. Matthew Me and Geno,
17:34
Speaker 2: you're telling me that, hey, this happens all the time.
17:36
Speaker 2: They don't go to jail. Bs, This does not happen
17:39
Speaker 2: all the time to prey on the fears of people
17:43
Speaker 2: all across the country, to pray on hatred and injustice
17:49
Speaker 2: and use it for a pr boost to get a
17:52
Speaker 2: raise in your salary. Oh no, no, he needs to
17:55
Speaker 2: be in jail, Ma, Geno.
17:57
Speaker 5: Well, again, you know we're mad at him, were angry
18:00
Speaker 5: at him, But again, is he is he? Is he
18:03
Speaker 5: a threat to the society?
18:06
Speaker 2: Is he?
18:06
Speaker 5: Is he a person who we should be afraid of,
18:09
Speaker 5: who's going to be turned loose on the streets. I mean,
18:12
Speaker 5: you know, if he wasn't a celebrity, we would have
18:15
Speaker 5: heard nothing about this case. You know, the fact that
18:18
Speaker 5: he's a celebrity, the fact that he doesn't matter.
18:21
Speaker 2: It doesn't matter. That's the whole. If a tree falls
18:24
Speaker 2: of the forest, does anybody hear it? Yeah, it can
18:27
Speaker 2: be heard, even if you're not there. It still makes
18:31
Speaker 2: a sound. Whether he's a celebrity or not. He did
18:34
Speaker 2: this thing.
18:35
Speaker 5: Right, And people in similar situations who are convicted of
18:39
Speaker 5: class four felonies in Illinois don't go to jail.
18:44
Speaker 2: But you haven't been able to name another similar situation.
18:47
Speaker 5: Have you another actor who's done something like this?
18:51
Speaker 1: Now?
18:51
Speaker 10: I don't know if.
18:52
Speaker 2: Anyone, anyone, anyone that's done something like this. Prayed on
18:56
Speaker 2: prejudices and hate and a horrible, hateful history of targeting
19:03
Speaker 2: people and the worst conjuring of all the news. I mean,
19:09
Speaker 2: it goes on and on and on. I want to
19:13
Speaker 2: go to Paul Zeike, former police commander, author of Stop
19:18
Speaker 2: Him From Killing Them on Amazon Kindle, Paul Zeike, what
19:23
Speaker 2: do you think?
19:24
Speaker 11: Well?
19:24
Speaker 10: I think you had two dozen detectives that engaged in
19:29
Speaker 10: three thousand hours plus of investigation to bring an offender
19:36
Speaker 10: to justice that did not exist. And the fact that
19:41
Speaker 10: the officers were chasing. Essentially, a ghost is something they're
19:46
Speaker 10: not equipped really, and you could go two careers without
19:51
Speaker 10: finding this exact situation where a a top flight actor
19:56
Speaker 10: or any sort of high profile individual, or anyvictim so
20:00
Speaker 10: to speak, would make up an entire story and have
20:04
Speaker 10: props and have all these other things to make you
20:06
Speaker 10: believe that these terrible things had happened. Furthermore, it also
20:12
Speaker 10: opens the door for an arrest to be made of
20:15
Speaker 10: the wrong people or.
20:16
Speaker 11: People that never were involved. You know, we're so worried
20:20
Speaker 11: about people being in prison. Who have you know, twenty
20:23
Speaker 11: thirty years ago didn't do what they were accused of doing.
20:28
Speaker 11: This exact setup, this exact paradigm, could have created a
20:33
Speaker 11: situation where if they believed him and not these other individuals,
20:37
Speaker 11: the people that he hired to commit these crimes, they
20:41
Speaker 11: could be in prison for the next twenty years. And
20:44
Speaker 11: who's looking at that?
20:47
Speaker 2: Jesse Smollett is finally headed to jail, I think anyway?
20:54
Speaker 2: For what staging a fake hate crime on himself to
21:01
Speaker 2: make more money in a very misled and misdirected pr
21:06
Speaker 2: campaign he launched himself the Empire Star files the appeal
21:11
Speaker 2: in an investigation where Chicago cops conclude Smolette hired the
21:17
Speaker 2: two Osendaro brothers to carry out the crime. He was
21:20
Speaker 2: sentenced to wait for it one hundred and fifty days
21:24
Speaker 2: in jail last year, but because of all of his
21:28
Speaker 2: moaning and groaning and crying and snotting, he actually got
21:34
Speaker 2: out on an appeal bond to walk free until his
21:38
Speaker 2: case is decided. Is there a chance this guy could
21:42
Speaker 2: somehow swing a new trial? You know, Paul Syke as
21:49
Speaker 2: go ahead, I'll circle back to sch go ahead.
21:51
Speaker 5: Yeah, okay, real quick, this this is my advantage, you know.
21:54
Speaker 5: And again you know, I understand that the time that
21:57
Speaker 5: was put into this case, but you had five police
22:00
Speaker 5: officers investigating a false report to the police, there were
22:05
Speaker 5: eight hundred homicides.
22:07
Speaker 2: Oh wait a minute, Wait a minute. You had all
22:09
Speaker 2: these cops investigating what they believed to be a hate
22:14
Speaker 2: crime and a possible attempt to murder even by putting
22:19
Speaker 2: your moose around his neck on a celebrity because he's black,
22:24
Speaker 2: because he's gay. That's what they were investigating. And an
22:27
Speaker 2: old roads led back to Jesse Smollett. Right, they found
22:32
Speaker 2: the purple a right, it was Smollett.
22:34
Speaker 5: Yeah, let's put it in perspective eight hundred homicides in
22:37
Speaker 5: Chicago and you got twenty five police officers investigating this.
22:41
Speaker 2: This No, you are not turning this back around on
22:45
Speaker 2: the cops. They think that the movement are out there. Wait,
22:50
Speaker 2: alexis Terreshak. At some point did he say that the
22:52
Speaker 2: purpse threw bleach on him?
22:54
Speaker 5: He did?
22:54
Speaker 2: Oh, dear Lord in Heaven. I mean, come on, Zike,
22:59
Speaker 2: help me out here. You're Mangino. If you believe that
23:02
Speaker 2: there are purps out there that are throwing bleach on
23:06
Speaker 2: a victim, on beating them, wrapping a noose around their neck,
23:12
Speaker 2: taunting them, yeah, you're gonna look for the purpse. And
23:16
Speaker 2: then the fact that the victims of celebrity making this
23:20
Speaker 2: crime high profile, giving your city a black eye. Yes,
23:25
Speaker 2: the cops are all over a potential hate crime. Because
23:28
Speaker 2: hate doesn't die, that purp will do it again and
23:31
Speaker 2: again and release his hate in another way, the purp
23:35
Speaker 2: had to be stopped. And you've got Mangino trying to
23:38
Speaker 2: turn this around on a cop. So there's that question.
23:41
Speaker 2: But this is what I was going to ask you earlier.
23:45
Speaker 2: It makes me think, what's it all for? Why did
23:48
Speaker 2: I beat my brains out, trying to put bad guys
23:54
Speaker 2: behind bars, every day, working till three and four in
23:59
Speaker 2: the morning some times for this for the part to
24:04
Speaker 2: be let out. How do you think the Ousindara brothers feel.
24:09
Speaker 2: How do you think that gurrs feel, the cops who
24:13
Speaker 2: stand by and see all that work, all that effort
24:18
Speaker 2: for what? What about Zike?
24:21
Speaker 10: Well, here's the thing we talked about those twenty four officers,
24:25
Speaker 10: and you can imagine the emotions they're going through there.
24:28
Speaker 2: I bet they feel defeated.
24:30
Speaker 10: Defeated absolutely, they put all that in for nothing. Any
24:33
Speaker 10: good cop that's worth their weight, and there's a lot
24:36
Speaker 10: of them in this country, by the way, take that
24:39
Speaker 10: as a personal insult that somebody in their city could
24:44
Speaker 10: possibly be the victim of a hate crime and have
24:47
Speaker 10: all these heinous things done to them. Their position is
24:50
Speaker 10: going to be, I'm not going home, I'm not going
24:53
Speaker 10: to bed until I find the people that did this
24:56
Speaker 10: and bring them to justice, not on my watch, and
24:59
Speaker 10: have all that be turned around and be an absolute
25:02
Speaker 10: farce and just sham of the criminal justice system. Those officers,
25:08
Speaker 10: I guarantee you are defeated. How they may even need
25:11
Speaker 10: counseling at the end of that.
25:13
Speaker 2: I mean, when you work that hard. I mean, Alexis Teschut.
25:17
Speaker 2: You have been around me when I've been working on
25:19
Speaker 2: a case. I live it, I breathe it, I ate it,
25:22
Speaker 2: I drink it. That's what I think about until it's solved,
25:25
Speaker 2: and that can take days, weeks, months, sometimes longer. And
25:30
Speaker 2: when you finally crack a case, it finally goes to
25:34
Speaker 2: trial and then this, I mean, I agree with Zych.
25:39
Speaker 2: It's just such a defeat for everyone that worked the case.
25:44
Speaker 7: And you know, the police officers, they in the very
25:47
Speaker 7: beginning believed him. They believe Smalllett. They actually were stopping
25:53
Speaker 7: so many people because he had given a description as attackers,
25:57
Speaker 7: so they were questioning everybody in town. They were going
26:01
Speaker 7: to find the perpetrators. Little did they know they were
26:04
Speaker 7: his two friends that he was hanging out with all
26:05
Speaker 7: the time, and he paid to do this. But they
26:08
Speaker 7: were very serious about trying to find the suspect.
26:11
Speaker 2: Don't you know that prosecutor is besides himself. Take a
26:15
Speaker 2: listen to our cut.
26:16
Speaker 12: The four this jury worked so hard and for mister
26:21
Speaker 12: Smallllett to get up in front of them and lie
26:24
Speaker 12: for hours and hours and hours, that really compounded his misconduct,
26:31
Speaker 12: and quite frankly, when I saw that happen in the courtroom,
26:36
Speaker 12: at least for me as a trial lawyer that spent
26:39
Speaker 12: my life in the courtroom, we don't expect defendants to
26:42
Speaker 12: do that. Defendants have a right to go to trial.
26:45
Speaker 12: Defendants have a right to argue that their case has
26:47
Speaker 12: not been proven beyond a reasonable doubt. But defendants do
26:50
Speaker 12: not have the right to go in front of a
26:52
Speaker 12: jury and lie under oath. Mister Smallett would not have
26:56
Speaker 12: lost this case as he did today unless the jury
26:59
Speaker 12: found that he led to them, And so that was
27:02
Speaker 12: something that I was very proud that this jury came
27:05
Speaker 12: to the conclusion that he's guilty, and the fact that
27:08
Speaker 12: he came up with a completely ridiculous story to explain
27:12
Speaker 12: his misconduct did not apparently have an impact on the
27:15
Speaker 12: jury's verdict.
27:16
Speaker 2: Take a listen now to ourka the four A Alpha.
27:20
Speaker 12: There are two things that I think stuck with the jury.
27:24
Speaker 12: Number one, I think my basic argument that it is
27:27
Speaker 12: ridiculous to think that Smolette left his apartment on the
27:31
Speaker 12: night of January twenty ninth at two o'clock in the
27:34
Speaker 12: morning to go buy eggs and that that's his explanation
27:37
Speaker 12: for why he ended up right at that intersection, right
27:40
Speaker 12: at two o'clock in the morning that the brother said
27:42
Speaker 12: is where he told them the attacks should take place.
27:45
Speaker 12: So the fact that it actually happened that way, I
27:48
Speaker 12: think was pretty profound. I also think that sometimes it's
27:51
Speaker 12: simple things. He actually rigged that rope after that rope
27:57
Speaker 12: got put on him.
27:58
Speaker 2: I showed the picture to the jury. Pictures don't lie.
28:01
Speaker 12: Those pictures showed that he actually, after he went through
28:05
Speaker 12: this fake attack, wanted to make it look better, and
28:08
Speaker 12: he jimmied with the rope to make the noose look
28:11
Speaker 12: closer to his throat and rustled around because the rope
28:14
Speaker 12: you saw in the courtroom was nice and neat around
28:16
Speaker 12: his neck. Because old Austin Daryl didn't have time to
28:19
Speaker 12: do much with it because a car came and so
28:22
Speaker 12: he ran away. He left the rope next to his face.
28:25
Speaker 12: Small lud got up put it around his neck, and
28:28
Speaker 12: then when it didn't look bad enough, he changed it,
28:31
Speaker 12: and I think.
28:31
Speaker 5: That impacted the jury.
28:33
Speaker 2: I like this terrest check. Is it true that Smolette
28:36
Speaker 2: refused to eat? It sounds like a child refusing to eat,
28:40
Speaker 2: having a little tantrum. He wouldn't eat behind bars, and
28:44
Speaker 2: for Pete's sint, it's the local jail. Anybody ever seen
28:48
Speaker 2: Andy and Mayberry? For Pete's sake, when Otis would let
28:50
Speaker 2: himself in and out, it's not like he's in the pen.
28:54
Speaker 2: He's not in Alcatraz, he's not in mac security. In
28:57
Speaker 2: the hole. For Pete's sake, he wouldn't eat.
29:00
Speaker 7: So he claimed that he had given up food for lent,
29:05
Speaker 7: so he was fasting for the entire duration of lent,
29:08
Speaker 7: the forty days of lent. So he said that he
29:12
Speaker 7: gave up foods six days before he actually was sentenced
29:17
Speaker 7: to jail. So he I guess at this point is
29:19
Speaker 7: now not even for eleven days that it was a
29:21
Speaker 7: religious thing.
29:22
Speaker 2: So he was going to starve for forty days. He
29:26
Speaker 2: was not going to eat for forty days, the forty
29:28
Speaker 2: days preceding Easter. Do I understand you? Yes, Okay, that's
29:32
Speaker 2: a lie. There's no way Jesse Smillette was not going
29:35
Speaker 2: to eat for forty days. That's just that's just not true.
29:39
Speaker 2: But fine, another lie by Jesse Smilette. And now he's
29:43
Speaker 2: dragging Easter into it. Did you hear that?
29:46
Speaker 9: Man?
29:46
Speaker 2: Gino he's dragging Easter in.
29:48
Speaker 5: Well, the only person I know as fast as for
29:50
Speaker 5: forty days was Jesus.
29:52
Speaker 2: And just do not do not start on him. Don't
29:56
Speaker 2: do not. I don't even want to hear him dragged
29:58
Speaker 2: into this conversation for Peat's sake. But I do agree
30:02
Speaker 2: that you're right. That's the only person I've ever known
30:05
Speaker 2: to starve himself for forty days and forty nights. And
30:10
Speaker 2: although he was greatly tempted, he didn't give in small
30:15
Speaker 2: atte However, it's still lying through his teeth. So alexis
30:19
Speaker 2: terrest schuck. He had nothing but water behind bars, correct
30:25
Speaker 2: the mean streets of the Cook County Local Jail.
30:28
Speaker 7: Right, it is, But the Cook County Jail is not
30:30
Speaker 7: a cush jail. It isn't notoriously bad jail. You know
30:35
Speaker 7: what do you think jail is?
30:36
Speaker 2: Alexis terrestruck. Where are you joining me from Rodeo drive
30:39
Speaker 2: this morning?
30:40
Speaker 7: No, I'm not on Rodeo drive, but I am in
30:43
Speaker 7: Los Angeles.
30:45
Speaker 13: But jail is jail.
30:47
Speaker 7: But the Cook County jail it is bad as well.
30:49
Speaker 7: It's not a nice one.
30:50
Speaker 2: Well, it's jail. What do you wanted to be a spot?
30:53
Speaker 7: Well, I also think that he was getting fairly special treatment.
30:57
Speaker 7: But they said that they well.
30:59
Speaker 2: You're right about that. Didn't he get moved from one
31:03
Speaker 2: place to the next so he could be what did
31:06
Speaker 2: he get to the medical ward so he could have
31:08
Speaker 2: a different surrounding he was in You know what? Take
31:11
Speaker 2: a listen to hour cut see this is Leah Hope
31:14
Speaker 2: ABC seven.
31:15
Speaker 9: Four days into the one hundred and fifty day sentence,
31:18
Speaker 9: Jesse Smollett remains in protective custody at the Cook County Jail,
31:22
Speaker 9: and his family remained steadfast in their support of the
31:25
Speaker 9: former TV star who was convicted for lying to police
31:28
Speaker 9: about a hate crime hoax.
31:31
Speaker 2: He's very strong, He's very focused.
31:32
Speaker 9: He Smalllett's youngest brother visited him yesterday at the jail,
31:36
Speaker 9: where Smollett is in a cell by himself and being
31:38
Speaker 9: monitored in the medical way.
31:55
Speaker 2: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Welcome Matt, Guys, remember Molette.
32:00
Speaker 2: To Chicago police, he was attacked on a dark street
32:03
Speaker 2: by two masked strangers that put a noose around his
32:09
Speaker 2: neck signifying a lynching of a black male, pouring chemicals
32:15
Speaker 2: on him while yelling racist, homophobic slurs. They somehow even
32:20
Speaker 2: managed to work in support for Donald Trump. Well, that's
32:25
Speaker 2: quite the kinky dink. The brothers, who actually testified in
32:29
Speaker 2: court told the jury Smullett hired them to fake the
32:33
Speaker 2: attack only because he wanted more money and to bolster
32:38
Speaker 2: boost his celebrity profile. Smollett later said that in the
32:44
Speaker 2: days before the fake race attack, he and the brothers
32:49
Speaker 2: were together, but not to rehearse the attack. They were
32:52
Speaker 2: actually just getting high on pot. Matthew Manngino, former District
32:57
Speaker 2: Attorney Lawrence County role board member author executioners, told Matthew
33:04
Speaker 2: the medical wing is a cushy area. You're not in
33:09
Speaker 2: general population. There are very few inmates in there. There
33:12
Speaker 2: nurses walking around, they're they're measuring your hydration and your
33:17
Speaker 2: pulse and all that. Why was he in the medical wing?
33:21
Speaker 5: Well, you're right that the medical wing is like a
33:25
Speaker 5: hospital within a correctional facility. Uh, you know, maybe it's
33:29
Speaker 5: because he was starving himself. I don't know. You know
33:32
Speaker 5: that that's curious that he would be in the medical
33:36
Speaker 5: wing other than his absurd fasting. But again, should he
33:41
Speaker 5: even be in jail is the question.
33:44
Speaker 2: I believe that the jury decided that, and you're still
33:47
Speaker 2: talking about it.
33:48
Speaker 5: The jury decided he was guilty. The judge decided that
33:51
Speaker 5: he had to go to jail. And again, if you're
33:55
Speaker 5: going to look at similar class four felonies in Illinois,
34:00
Speaker 5: they don't involve jail.
34:01
Speaker 2: Again again, Matthew Mangino, you keep talking about similar crist
34:07
Speaker 2: but yet you have been unable to name one crime
34:12
Speaker 2: that you can specify that is similar to this crime.
34:19
Speaker 2: The breadth of his hopes on Lady Justice is beyond
34:26
Speaker 2: compare and still lying through his tea as he SIPs
34:32
Speaker 2: ice water. Take a listen to our cut e from Fox.
34:36
Speaker 13: Jesse's Molett going free, at least for now while he
34:39
Speaker 13: tries to get his sentence overturned.
34:41
Speaker 2: The appeals court ordered.
34:42
Speaker 13: Jesse's released during the appeals process. He will first have
34:46
Speaker 13: to post a bond of one hundred and fifty thousand
34:48
Speaker 13: dollars before he's let out of Coke County Jail, although
34:51
Speaker 13: it's unclear when exactly he'll be able to walk free.
34:55
Speaker 13: Jesse started serving his five months last Thursday, and immediately
34:59
Speaker 13: after the judge sentenced him, he started shouting that he
35:02
Speaker 13: was innocent and raising his fists in the air. As
35:05
Speaker 13: he was taken out of the court in handcuffs tense
35:08
Speaker 13: moments inside of the courtroom. In this video, his defense
35:12
Speaker 13: team and his family members never stopped asking for his release,
35:15
Speaker 13: claiming that Jesse was in physical harm well behind bars.
35:20
Speaker 13: They cited racist and homophobic threats that they had received,
35:24
Speaker 13: and also said Jesse was highly susceptible to contracting COVID
35:28
Speaker 13: nineteen while in jails.
35:31
Speaker 2: Really racist and homophobic threats. Again, that second verse same
35:39
Speaker 2: as the first, alexis terress check. That's what he claimed
35:42
Speaker 2: the first time. For all I know is Smolette from
35:44
Speaker 2: the Cook County payphone calling his family. I mean, they're
35:49
Speaker 2: tuning up with that again. I mean, if these threats
35:53
Speaker 2: were real, it would be different. But they've already been
35:56
Speaker 2: proved to be a lie, which doesn't injustice to every
35:59
Speaker 2: hate crime victim out there that has been targeted because
36:02
Speaker 2: they're black, because they're gay, because they're Asian, because they're
36:05
Speaker 2: a woman, because they're bill on the blank, hate hate
36:09
Speaker 2: because of who you are, and they're they're praying on
36:14
Speaker 2: that again.
36:16
Speaker 7: You know, prinaters that are incarcerated complain all the time
36:20
Speaker 7: about how they have so little access to the outside world.
36:23
Speaker 7: It's very extensive to make a phone call.
36:25
Speaker 2: Calls are collect number one, but go ahead.
36:29
Speaker 7: And so the fact that they're saying after five days
36:33
Speaker 7: that social media Twitter, Instagram is affecting how Jesse is
36:39
Speaker 7: mister Smollett is being treated behind bars doesn't compute. It
36:42
Speaker 7: just doesn't make sense that they think people who are
36:45
Speaker 7: saying things about him on social media would then somehow
36:48
Speaker 7: affect people behind bars, as if that information has infiltrated,
36:52
Speaker 7: you know, some sort of scary group behind bars, it's
36:56
Speaker 7: going to then target Smallett. It defied logic.
37:00
Speaker 2: You know, Matthew me and Gino, high profile lawyer is
37:02
Speaker 2: joining us A former district attorney and Lawrence County now
37:05
Speaker 2: author Matthew how many times as one of your clients
37:11
Speaker 2: gotten an appeal bond, which means after you're convicted at trial,
37:17
Speaker 2: typically by a jury, the judges, oh, you know what,
37:21
Speaker 2: Never mind about that conviction thing. You're going to walk
37:23
Speaker 2: free to an appeals court, for instance, the Illinois Supreme
37:28
Speaker 2: Court rules on your case, and then after they rule,
37:32
Speaker 2: maybe you can appeal it on up to the Circuit
37:36
Speaker 2: Court of Appeals and after that, hey, maybe you can
37:38
Speaker 2: take it all the way to the US Supreme Court.
37:40
Speaker 2: You just don't know how far this appeal is going
37:42
Speaker 2: to go, but the whole time you can stay out
37:45
Speaker 2: behind bars. I mean, why even have a jury trial?
37:47
Speaker 5: Well, to answer your question, you know, it's not entirely
37:52
Speaker 5: unusual to get an appeal bond. How many of you had, Well,
37:56
Speaker 5: I'm just let me finish. It's not entire really unusual
38:01
Speaker 5: to get one from a trial judge who earns the case,
38:04
Speaker 5: who thinks that maybe you have an appeal that has
38:07
Speaker 5: some merit to it, based on him having observed the trial.
38:12
Speaker 5: So you know, he made grant that. It is unusual
38:15
Speaker 5: to within five days at least in my experience, to
38:18
Speaker 5: have an appellate court intervene and say this person should
38:23
Speaker 5: have an appeal bond over the denial of the trial judge.
38:27
Speaker 5: That's unusual. I can't say that I've ever seen that.
38:31
Speaker 2: Can I ask you a question? Yeah, how many times
38:35
Speaker 2: as a prosecutor did you get a conviction on a
38:38
Speaker 2: case and then that person get out on an appeal bond.
38:43
Speaker 5: It's rare because I never had.
38:46
Speaker 2: It happen to me as the prosecutor. Not once did
38:49
Speaker 2: one person that I took a trial and there's the
38:51
Speaker 2: commission get out while they appealed the conviction that never happened,
38:56
Speaker 2: and that was ten solid years of inter city Atlanta.
39:00
Speaker 5: I mean, I don't disagree with you never never, and
39:03
Speaker 5: you're here, but if you have it, if you have
39:05
Speaker 5: a you're not answering.
39:06
Speaker 2: I'm sorry, Matthew, you're not answering. How often did that
39:10
Speaker 2: ever happen to you? Did it ever happen?
39:12
Speaker 5: I would say sometimes, maybe in eight years or a judge,
39:17
Speaker 5: A judge granted and at til bond when in fact
39:21
Speaker 5: that one of your cases.
39:22
Speaker 2: I didn't hear the number.
39:23
Speaker 5: I say a couple you know, as the district attorney,
39:26
Speaker 5: every case was mine. So I say, a couple of
39:30
Speaker 5: times it's happened.
39:31
Speaker 2: All right, I've never had it happen. Who's jumping in?
39:34
Speaker 2: Is that Paul's I?
39:35
Speaker 10: Yeah, Nance, I'd just like to make a quick comment,
39:37
Speaker 10: and that is, you know, when you look at this
39:39
Speaker 10: from the flip side, let's just say he would have
39:41
Speaker 10: been successful. Let's say that that the his plot would
39:45
Speaker 10: not have been discovered. He essentially would be setting up
39:50
Speaker 10: one or two or more people to spend you know,
39:53
Speaker 10: a decade or two behind bars just to promote his career.
39:59
Speaker 2: You know, you're right, those Sindari brothers could have gone
40:02
Speaker 2: down for years on end for a hate crime for
40:06
Speaker 2: throwting bleach on small at, for beating him up, for
40:10
Speaker 2: attacking him and then putting a noose around his neck.
40:13
Speaker 2: Doctor Sherry Schwartz, what exactly is a pathological liar?
40:19
Speaker 8: Well, this is somebody who I mean to put it
40:23
Speaker 8: really simply, if their lips are moving, they're lying. That's
40:27
Speaker 8: how you can think about them, because the lies literally
40:31
Speaker 8: just come out of their mouths with great deal of ease.
40:34
Speaker 8: Research on pathological liars shows that, you know, if they're
40:38
Speaker 8: hooked up to like an EKG right to check their
40:42
Speaker 8: pulse and things like that, that they lie and they
40:46
Speaker 8: really don't experience that same kind of physical reaction that
40:50
Speaker 8: somebody who's telling a lie that doesn't normally lie would,
40:52
Speaker 8: like anxiety and things like that, heightened arousal. They just
40:58
Speaker 8: lie for the sake of lying.
41:01
Speaker 2: Lie for the sake of lying. Is Jesse Smillant finally
41:06
Speaker 2: going to jail? Will he ever admit he did anything wrong?
41:12
Speaker 2: Is this going to be fodder for a made for
41:14
Speaker 2: TV movie or a book? Oh? Probably, We wait as
41:20
Speaker 2: just as unfolds. Goodbye friend,