Latest / The Trauma Therapist / Guest Hosts: Brad Kammer, Marcia Black, and Stefanie Klein. SPACE: Supporting Presence, Awareness, Connection and Embodiment for Therapists

Transcript

Guest Hosts: Brad Kammer, Marcia Black, and Stefanie Klein. SPACE: Supporting Presence, Awareness, Connection and Embodiment for Therapists · The Trauma Therapist

• 0:04
  Speaker 1: Welcome to the special guest host series of The Trauma
• 0:06
  Speaker 1: Therapist Podcast, where I'm going to be handing over to
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  Speaker 1: Mic to some incredible guest hosts. In each episode, you'll
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  Speaker 1: hear fresh perspectives and unique insights to inform and inspire
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  Speaker 1: you and all the while keeping the heart of this
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  Speaker 1: podcast alive. So sit back and enjoy.
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  Speaker 2: Well. Thanks to Guy from The Trauma Therapist podcast for
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  Speaker 2: inviting us to share about the Complex Trauma Training Center.
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  Speaker 2: It gives me an opportunity to be with two of
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  Speaker 2: my favorite people in the world and my partners at CTTC,
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  Speaker 2: Marsha Black and Stephanie Klein.
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  Speaker 3: Welcome, Thank you Rad and thank you Guy for having us.
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  Speaker 3: Thank you both.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, and Stephanie and myself have both been on with
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  Speaker 2: Guy on the Trauma Therapist podcast, but he offered for
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  Speaker 2: us to come and talk a little bit about our
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  Speaker 2: trauma based organization. So I thought I would start by
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  Speaker 2: just introducing who we are, what we do, and then
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  Speaker 2: Stephanie and marsham in and talk about maybe how you
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  Speaker 2: got involved in this and what you're passionate about. So
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  Speaker 2: we put together the Complex Trauma Training Center because of
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  Speaker 2: the need that we were finding in the trainings that
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  Speaker 2: we were doing through NORM about ongoing mentorship, ongoing consultation,
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  Speaker 2: ongoing support, so not just clinical training, although that's very important,
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  Speaker 2: but ongoing support in our roles of being therapists. So
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  Speaker 2: while we're focused on complex trauma in our center, we're
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  Speaker 2: also very much focused on being a mentorship based program
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  Speaker 2: for ongoing trainings, ongoing events, ongoing programs, and ongoing opportunities
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  Speaker 2: for mentorship. And all three of us are doing all
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  Speaker 2: of those things. We're teaching, we're providing consultations both in
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  Speaker 2: group and individual format, and also mentoring hundreds of trauma therapists.
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  Speaker 3: So, Brad, you mentioned NORM, which is how I met
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  Speaker 3: the two you you knew each other a little before that.
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  Speaker 3: But NORM is a model that was designed for the
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  Speaker 3: treatment and healing of complex trauma, and so at Complex
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  Speaker 3: Trauma Training Center we definitely do trainings in NORM. And
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  Speaker 3: what we really have come to understand through years of
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  Speaker 3: training therapist in the NARMA approach, which was created by
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  Speaker 3: doctor Lawrence Heller, is that complex trauma is, of course,
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  Speaker 3: by definition, a complex field, and therapists who work with
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  Speaker 3: trauma are often working in private practice sometimes other settings,
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  Speaker 3: and it can be really lonely to hold all of
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  Speaker 3: that by yourself, and often we don't have adequate support
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  Speaker 3: and mentorship in the skills that it really takes to
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  Speaker 3: be an effective trauma therapist. Also, there's a ton of
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  Speaker 3: burnout in the field because people don't have enough support.
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  Speaker 3: So through the Complex Trauma Training Center, we started to
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  Speaker 3: really focus in on what we love doing the most
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  Speaker 3: and also what we think is one of the most
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  Speaker 3: necessary things in the field in helping therapists be effective
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  Speaker 3: and also be able to sustain and enjoy their work
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  Speaker 3: in healing trauma, which is supporting the therapist.
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  Speaker 4: I might add that NORM is a very sort of
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  Speaker 4: phenomenological approach that focuses a lot on working with clients
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  Speaker 4: in the here and now and really emphasizes the therapist's
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  Speaker 4: capacity for presence and curiosity and spaciousness. And the other
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  Speaker 4: thing that's come out of all of the years that
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  Speaker 4: we've been teaching and training in NORM is the awareness
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  Speaker 4: of how significant the experience of the therapist is in
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  Speaker 4: the quality of work beyond the NORM model at least
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  Speaker 4: through all other probably all other therapeutic models, because they're
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  Speaker 4: human to human and so we've really expanded to include
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  Speaker 4: some trainings that we're looking to bring in twenty twenty
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  Speaker 4: five around supporting the therapist in building a relationship to
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  Speaker 4: their internal world in a way that will support them
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  Speaker 4: in that kind of phenomenological present moment work.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, so I think between the two of you, you're
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  Speaker 2: talking about the ways that people can enter into our organization.
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  Speaker 2: People can come into our norm therapist trainings that we
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  Speaker 2: do we do several a year, both online and in person,
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  Speaker 2: and as Marsha you just mentioned, we're creating a new
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  Speaker 2: program for twenty twenty five called the Space Program, which
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  Speaker 2: we coin that because we're working with helping therapists develop
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  Speaker 2: increasing space on three levels of their experience. Personally internally
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  Speaker 2: as they sit in the role of a therapist, have
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  Speaker 2: more spaciousness and ease inside themselves. And then the second
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  Speaker 2: levels interpersonally, so in the relationship with their clients to
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  Speaker 2: have more space not have to feel so pressured or reactive.
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  Speaker 2: And then the third one that we don't talk that
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  Speaker 2: much about in psychology is the trans personal space or
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  Speaker 2: something that opens up larger than just two individual people.
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  Speaker 2: That those of us that are interested in spirituality or
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  Speaker 2: transpersonal psychology, we know that when you do trauma healing.
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  Speaker 2: It can open up what they call post traumatic growth,
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  Speaker 2: which can be very significant changes on multiple levels, including
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  Speaker 2: the spiritual levels. So the acronym of SPACE is supporting presence, awareness, connection,
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  Speaker 2: and embodiment, and that's really what this program is all about.
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  Speaker 2: It's about helping therapists learn more about how they can
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  Speaker 2: create those capacities within themselves. We're not going to be
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  Speaker 2: specific skills. People will be coming with all sorts of
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  Speaker 2: different backgrounds and clinical models that they're going to use.
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  Speaker 2: But we're really excited. We don't see a lot of
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  Speaker 2: programs out there that are really primarily focused on helping
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  Speaker 2: therapists develop more of this inner development of their internal
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  Speaker 2: world to create greater sustainability, like Stephanie you said in
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  Speaker 2: our Career, but also just greater presence, awareness, connection, and embodiment.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, I think Brad you used the term before inside
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  Speaker 3: out learning to describe sort of this Space program and
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  Speaker 3: the inspiration. A lot of the inspiration came from the
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  Speaker 3: mentorship model that we've created, which is really not about
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  Speaker 3: reinforcing skills or telling therapists what to do in this situation.
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  Speaker 3: But we've been noticing that therapists will come to us
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  Speaker 3: with some of the most complicated clients, and what we
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  Speaker 3: really start with is what evoked inside of them when
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  Speaker 3: they're working with this person. What are they feeling, what
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  Speaker 3: are they experiencing. These are things that many of us
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  Speaker 3: have learned through our training to kind of get rid
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  Speaker 3: of or get out of the way. And what we've
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  Speaker 3: found in the way that we invite this and even
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  Speaker 3: prioritize it in the consultation process is that it's incredibly
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  Speaker 3: important information. It's very informative. It also helps us be
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  Speaker 3: more in connection with ourselves, which then allows us to
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  Speaker 3: be more attuned to the person sitting across from ourselves,
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  Speaker 3: so more in our humanity, which invites more of the
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  Speaker 3: client being able to connect to their humanity and more
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  Speaker 3: of an intersubjective human process between us. And so that
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  Speaker 3: really inspired us to create a program where that was
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  Speaker 3: really the focus in the priority to lean into that space.
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  Speaker 4: You know, I'm thinking about the term counter transferent swhich
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  Speaker 4: in many programs is thought of kind of as a
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  Speaker 4: bad thing. We're not supposed to have counter transference. We
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  Speaker 4: want to get rid of it, and in our program,
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  Speaker 4: we're going the opposite direction. We want to welcome our
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  Speaker 4: participants to bring all of that information that we have
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  Speaker 4: experiential opportunities for them to make a relationship to what's
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  Speaker 4: going on inside of them, that they can show up
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  Speaker 4: more or use that experience to understand what might be
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  Speaker 4: going on between them and the clients in a different way.
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  Speaker 4: So we're really inviting therapists to bring all of their
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  Speaker 4: experience that they notice happens with them with their clients
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  Speaker 4: or before they see their clients or after they see
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  Speaker 4: their clients as being really the gris for the mill
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  Speaker 4: that we want to work with much more than trying
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  Speaker 4: to figure out skills for them with their clients. Yeah,
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  Speaker 4: one of my intentions in supporting people in this program
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  Speaker 4: is for them to be able to enjoy their work more,
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  Speaker 4: to feel more of their liveness in their work, because
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  Speaker 4: I believe that in any really good therapy, the therapist
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  Speaker 4: growth will parallel that of the client, and we really
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  Speaker 4: want to support people engaging in their work in a
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  Speaker 4: way that they get to feel their own aliveness, their
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  Speaker 4: own humanity, to not leave themselves out of the work,
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  Speaker 4: but to be able to include themselves in the work
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  Speaker 4: in a way that they feel the level of satisfaction
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  Speaker 4: and enjoyment that we should feel if we're going to
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  Speaker 4: be doing this work every day.
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  Speaker 2: One of the things that the three of us have
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  Speaker 2: talked a lot about is, you know, kind of from
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  Speaker 2: the insight out from our own experience, both kind of
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  Speaker 2: in our own personal experience and also the way that
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  Speaker 2: we've been supporting a lot of therapists over the years
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  Speaker 2: is kind of learning about how we kind of collapse
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  Speaker 2: our own space. And so, Stephanie, I know you've talked
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  Speaker 2: about this before, but in terms of our intention for
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  Speaker 2: the space program that we're developing, do you want to
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  Speaker 2: talk a little bit more about how complex trauma collapse
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  Speaker 2: the space and how we're attempting to support the opening
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  Speaker 2: of that.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, really, as a brilliant adapt of survival strategy,
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  Speaker 3: we often learn very young, when we're facing early adversity
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  Speaker 3: and different failures in our environment. To meet our core needs,
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  Speaker 3: we learn to collapse ourselves, to shrink ourselves, to get
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  Speaker 3: rid of parts of ourselves, to disconnect from what's the
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  Speaker 3: most true and authentic and depth ful inside of ourselves.
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  Speaker 3: And we do this for our own survival. It ensures
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  Speaker 3: that we can keep going, that we can grow and develop.
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  Speaker 3: But in later life that leads to pretty significant disconnection patterns,
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  Speaker 3: disconnection from ourselves in ways that then start to drive
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  Speaker 3: suffering and start to drive symptoms and behaviors that are
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  Speaker 3: what people come into therapy for. And so, you know,
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  Speaker 3: even just thinking about like why did we become therapists
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  Speaker 3: in the first place, for many of us, we develop
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  Speaker 3: these amazing skills to attune to other people in part
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  Speaker 3: out of these strategies that have to do with disconnecting
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  Speaker 3: from our own needs. And you know, in a group
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  Speaker 3: of therapists, you often find a lot of people who
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  Speaker 3: relate to being disconnected from their own needs but very
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  Speaker 3: very attuned to the needs of others. So again, this
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  Speaker 3: program brings in all of that, all of those underlying
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  Speaker 3: dynamics in working with ourselves as therapists so that we
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  Speaker 3: can better support our clients in these same areas.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, and Marsha, I know you've talked about like the
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  Speaker 2: ways that we have done are trying to do our
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  Speaker 2: own work around this process. Do you want to talk
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  Speaker 2: a little bit about that.
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  Speaker 4: Well, this has been probably our first from the ground
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  Speaker 4: up creative project, and one of the things that has
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  Speaker 4: really meant a lot to me is that in doing so,
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  Speaker 4: we've really made an effort to guess you would say,
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  Speaker 4: walk the talk, which is to take time and give
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  Speaker 4: space for us to look at what are the strategies
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  Speaker 4: that we might bring or the capacities we might bring
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  Speaker 4: that supports our creative collaboration or gets in the way
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  Speaker 4: of it. And I already feel like I've grown a
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  Speaker 4: tremendous amount as I've come to notice what my strategies
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  Speaker 4: are that come up when I'm pressuring myself that I'm
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  Speaker 4: supposed to create something or contribute, and what supports me
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  Speaker 4: in being able to sit back and feel access to
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  Speaker 4: the creativity that comes up more spaciously when I let
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  Speaker 4: go of some of those patterns. So I feel excited
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  Speaker 4: that what we're also doing with ourselves as we build
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  Speaker 4: this program is what we want to also invite our
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  Speaker 4: participants to do with themselves in the program, which is
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  Speaker 4: to be in relationship to themselves and each other with
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  Speaker 4: more humility, more authenticity, more vulnerability, and hopefully more capacity
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  Speaker 4: for the deep growth that I think we all want.
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  Speaker 4: Even though we may start out wanting to help cure
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  Speaker 4: or fix other people, part of what we come to
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  Speaker 4: is recognizing that you know, really a lot of it
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  Speaker 4: is just being able to do our own work and
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  Speaker 4: then we can hold the space for other people to
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  Speaker 4: do theirs.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, thinking about this quote from Victor Frankel between stimulus
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  Speaker 2: and response. Their's space and in that space lies our freedom.
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  Speaker 2: And I think we've touched moments of that in our
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  Speaker 2: process and we're super excited to share that with others. Yeah,
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  Speaker 2: so we know people are really busy and there's lots
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  Speaker 2: of different opportunities for and you know, as people are
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  Speaker 2: kind of feeling out with maybe you're interested in developing
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  Speaker 2: for your career, you know, just checking our website out
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  Speaker 2: our social media. We also have a podcast, Transforming Trauma,
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  Speaker 2: where we invite guests and sometimes the three of us
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  Speaker 2: are on there to also share about some of the
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  Speaker 2: different trainings and programs. But you know, between the three
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  Speaker 2: of us, we've been in therapist for a long long time.
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  Speaker 2: So anything any parting words from Stephanie or Marsha about
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  Speaker 2: you know, people that are considering training with us or
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  Speaker 2: coming into our programs or getting support from us.
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  Speaker 3: And I'm also thinking about the importance of professional community
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  Speaker 3: and you know, like I said earlier, this can be
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  Speaker 3: a lonely and isolating profession and it can sometimes feel
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  Speaker 3: like a lonely and isolating world, you know, so we
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  Speaker 3: need to kind of all be in this together. And
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  Speaker 3: one of the things that we're trying to build with
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  Speaker 3: CTTC is sort of a home for trauma therapists, a
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  Speaker 3: place where they have a professional community and they feel
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  Speaker 3: like we all are in it together, you know, with
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  Speaker 3: the intention of making the world a less traumatic place,
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  Speaker 3: and you know, starting with exploring that from the inside out.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, And you know, we've had the great fortune
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  Speaker 2: of being with these people for years now and just
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  Speaker 2: such incredible passionate people that are dedicating their lives to
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  Speaker 2: healing trauma and also really showing the humility and the
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  Speaker 2: you know, the courage to come no matter if they're
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  Speaker 2: new as therapists, maybe still in graduate school or internship,
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  Speaker 2: or they've been in the field like those of the
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  Speaker 2: three of us for a long time, just continuing to deepen,
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  Speaker 2: continuing to receive support and provide support. It's this bi directional,
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  Speaker 2: supportive community that we're trying to create. So, yeah, we're
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  Speaker 2: excited about moving into this next year and offering the
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  Speaker 2: different trainings and programs, so people are interested, please connect
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  Speaker 2: with us and Yeah, it's been fun to spend time
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  Speaker 2: with the two of you here and we'll hopefully see
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  Speaker 2: some of you all soon.
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  Speaker 4: Yeah.
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  Speaker 3: Thanks everybody,