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Thasunda Brown Duckett · The David Rubenstein Show

0:03
Speaker 1: To Shanda Brown. Duckett is the president and CEO of
0:06
Speaker 1: t I A A, which is one of the largest
0:08
Speaker 1: income retirement security firms in the United States. She came
0:11
Speaker 1: to this position not long ago if for leading Chase
0:13
Speaker 1: Consumer Bank. I sat down with it were recently to
0:15
Speaker 1: talk about her focus on retirement and how she wants
0:18
Speaker 1: to make certain that those who retire do so with dignity.
0:21
Speaker 1: Let me just ask you at the outset for those
0:23
Speaker 1: people that are not as knowledgeable as you are, What
0:27
Speaker 1: actually is t I A A. What does that stand for? Yeah,
0:32
Speaker 1: so it's great to be here. So t I A
0:34
Speaker 1: A UH stands for Teachers Insurance Annuity Association UM. But
0:41
Speaker 1: given that we're that and so much more, we're simply
0:44
Speaker 1: t I A A UH. And when you think about
0:46
Speaker 1: what we do, we exist to ensure that millions of
0:50
Speaker 1: Americans can have a secure retirement. We were founded by
0:54
Speaker 1: Andrew Carnegie over a hundred years ago who saw a
0:57
Speaker 1: professor retire and poverty and not with dignity, and so
1:03
Speaker 1: from that moment our company was founded UH and we
1:06
Speaker 1: are Fortune one company. We return all of our profits,
1:10
Speaker 1: share our profits with our participants, and we're very much
1:13
Speaker 1: anchored on fulfilling our mission, um even as we stand
1:16
Speaker 1: here today. All right, So Andrew Carnegie came up with
1:18
Speaker 1: this idea a hundred plus years ago. That's because college
1:22
Speaker 1: professors at the time we're retiring and they had no money. Sure,
1:26
Speaker 1: and what about people who are not college professors. That's
1:29
Speaker 1: suppose they're high school teachers? Were they covered as well? Yeah?
1:32
Speaker 1: So over time we started with professors, but over time
1:36
Speaker 1: our mission expanded to not just the professors on campus,
1:40
Speaker 1: but also the janitors, the staff K through twelve hospitals,
1:45
Speaker 1: other nonprofits, and most recently having our product travel into
1:49
Speaker 1: the four one K market. And really, when you think
1:51
Speaker 1: about our our our mission to make sure that people
1:55
Speaker 1: can retire with dignity, we think having access to guaranteed
1:58
Speaker 1: income as part of one's reach hirement portfolio is absolutely critical.
2:03
Speaker 1: So when people retire now, if they have a t
2:06
Speaker 1: I a program, they get a guaranteed income or do
2:09
Speaker 1: they get just whatever you can return on your investments. Well,
2:13
Speaker 1: clearly our participants have choice, and depending on the plan
2:16
Speaker 1: depends on the university or the organization. But what makes
2:20
Speaker 1: t I a special is that within their in plan
2:24
Speaker 1: portfolio they can have exposure to guaranteed income, and that
2:28
Speaker 1: means that in addition to stocks and bonds, you have
2:32
Speaker 1: an in plan annuity that provides you that guarantee, that
2:35
Speaker 1: insurance that you can feel confident that regardless of the markets,
2:39
Speaker 1: it won't go negative, that you won't outlive it, and
2:42
Speaker 1: that ultimately it can complement your overall financial allocation as
2:46
Speaker 1: you think about your retirement. Okay, so today, what do
2:48
Speaker 1: you think of the biggest problem is with respect to
2:51
Speaker 1: worrying about investments. Are you worried about the economy? Are
2:54
Speaker 1: you worry about the geopolitical situation around the world. What's
2:57
Speaker 1: going to most adversely affect your ability to give good
3:00
Speaker 1: rates to return to your clients. Well, when I think about,
3:04
Speaker 1: you know, how we invest, we're a pretty well positioned
3:07
Speaker 1: to navigate any environment. But if I just think about
3:09
Speaker 1: the broader economy, clearly inflation is top of mind for
3:13
Speaker 1: the FED. Clearly I worry about the war in Ukraine, UM,
3:17
Speaker 1: and I also worry about the geopolitical environment. I think
3:20
Speaker 1: when it comes to our participants, inflation is top of
3:24
Speaker 1: mind because these are individuals that are thinking about retirement
3:27
Speaker 1: or in retirement, and the everyday cost UH is what's
3:31
Speaker 1: on top of what's top of mind for them. And
3:33
Speaker 1: so that's what's top of mind for me. Given how
3:35
Speaker 1: high inflation is right now relative to where it was,
3:37
Speaker 1: I mean, what can somebody who has to worry about
3:39
Speaker 1: being a retirement living on a fixed income, what can
3:41
Speaker 1: they really do? I mean, that's the beauty of t
3:43
Speaker 1: I A traditional That's what we've been here to do
3:46
Speaker 1: for over a hundred years. And so people who are
3:48
Speaker 1: thinking about retirement or in retirement that have access to
3:51
Speaker 1: guaranteed income, they're able to draw on their Social Security
3:55
Speaker 1: and they're also able to draw on their guaranteed income
3:58
Speaker 1: while they're navigating evolved to markets and hopefully not having
4:01
Speaker 1: to sell too early in the market. And so I think,
4:04
Speaker 1: more than ever, this is why it's so important to
4:07
Speaker 1: talk about access to guaranteed income, access to and planned annuities.
4:11
Speaker 1: Let's suppose you're not a teacher, you're not any of
4:13
Speaker 1: the professions that you cover. Let's suppose you're in something
4:16
Speaker 1: important like private equity. Right, Um, you might be okay,
4:19
Speaker 1: So let's suppose you work in a private equity firm.
4:22
Speaker 1: And uh, if you say, i'd like I've heard t
4:24
Speaker 1: i A has a good program. I'd like to sign
4:26
Speaker 1: up for it. Can you sign up for private equity
4:29
Speaker 1: programs as well? And me though, it's do you do
4:31
Speaker 1: you cover industries not just normally associated with t I
4:34
Speaker 1: A A. Yeah, well we just recently announced um our
4:38
Speaker 1: ability to have access to lifetime income solutions guaranteed income
4:42
Speaker 1: move into the four one K market and so very
4:45
Speaker 1: soon the answer will be yes that within your plan,
4:49
Speaker 1: you will have an opportunity if we negotiate that with
4:52
Speaker 1: your plan sponsor, to have exposure to t I A
4:54
Speaker 1: traditional like product that we that we call the Secure
4:57
Speaker 1: income UH product. Suppose I say I like your company
5:01
Speaker 1: and i'd like to invest in the company. I just
5:04
Speaker 1: want to make a good investment. Can I invest in
5:06
Speaker 1: your company? No, we are private UM and so we're
5:09
Speaker 1: not a public company. We're private. But the good news
5:13
Speaker 1: is if you are a participant, UH, you you get
5:16
Speaker 1: to share our profits. And so if you worked at
5:18
Speaker 1: a university or a healthcare with t I A, you
5:20
Speaker 1: get the benefit and sharing our profits. You ever thought
5:22
Speaker 1: about going public and changing all those rules or you
5:24
Speaker 1: don't want to do that? No, I'd rather share my
5:27
Speaker 1: profits with our participants. So you guarantee people through an
5:31
Speaker 1: annuity certain returns when they retire. Is that right? Yeah,
5:34
Speaker 1: we guarantee a percentage, and then depending on the performance
5:38
Speaker 1: of the company and in our investments, we can credit
5:40
Speaker 1: you a higher amount depending on how we're performing. I
5:44
Speaker 1: assume that you're able to do that because you put
5:46
Speaker 1: a lot of money in private equity, which gets high
5:47
Speaker 1: rates or return. Is that right? Well, we're we're able
5:51
Speaker 1: to do that because we have a great investment manager
5:54
Speaker 1: that's here. But our general account primarily has exposure to
5:59
Speaker 1: fixed income, but we also do have exposure to private equity,
6:02
Speaker 1: um and alternatives. That allows us to have a high
6:05
Speaker 1: triple A rated type insurance company with exposure to equity,
6:09
Speaker 1: which gives us the opportunity over the long haul to
6:11
Speaker 1: outperform and return or share those profits back to participants.
6:14
Speaker 1: T I A A owns New Bene Is that right?
6:17
Speaker 1: But Neuvine is your investment arm. Is that right? So
6:20
Speaker 1: this is a company you bought a number of years ago,
6:22
Speaker 1: and now all of your investments go through new Vine
6:25
Speaker 1: Is that right? And New ben was a municipal bond
6:28
Speaker 1: specialists at one point, but now they've diversified out of that.
6:30
Speaker 1: They have I mean what's been great about the acquisition
6:33
Speaker 1: I want to say in fourteen um is exactly they
6:36
Speaker 1: were known as a top muni shop, and we still are,
6:40
Speaker 1: but through acquisitions and partnerships like Churchill and others, we
6:44
Speaker 1: now have a general account that provides exposure to not
6:47
Speaker 1: just traditional investments but also alternatives, which has been terrific
6:51
Speaker 1: for us. So today, your interest in this is in
6:54
Speaker 1: part because you saw when you were a young child,
6:57
Speaker 1: your father did not have a retirement programmers that right. Yes,
7:01
Speaker 1: So my father worked UH for a company for many years,
7:05
Speaker 1: blue collar worker, drove trucks, worked in the warehouse UM
7:09
Speaker 1: and he had access to his pension plan, but he
7:12
Speaker 1: could have also participated with his four oh one K.
7:15
Speaker 1: And it wasn't until I graduated from college and was
7:18
Speaker 1: talking to my father Otis Brown and realized that he
7:22
Speaker 1: at that time had never contributed to his four oh
7:24
Speaker 1: one K. And so to have the daughter look at
7:27
Speaker 1: your father and say, Dad, this is not sufficient is
7:29
Speaker 1: something that stayed with me because there's so many Otis
7:33
Speaker 1: Browns out here that have access to a retirement plan,
7:37
Speaker 1: but that plan may not have communicated in a way
7:39
Speaker 1: that Otis Brown would say. This is something I need
7:41
Speaker 1: to take advantage of and as a result, Uh, there
7:44
Speaker 1: was a lot of dollars that were left on the table.
7:47
Speaker 1: Let's talk about your background. So where were you born?
7:49
Speaker 1: So I was born in Rochester, New York. And you
7:52
Speaker 1: saw it. You wanted warmer weather, so you moved to Texas.
7:54
Speaker 1: Is that what happened? My dad needed to keep a job,
7:57
Speaker 1: That's what happened. Uh. No, at the time, being a
8:00
Speaker 1: blue collar worker office or a plant which shut down,
8:04
Speaker 1: you would have another option, and at that time, one
8:06
Speaker 1: of the options was moving to Texas. And so my parents,
8:09
Speaker 1: my mom and my father, me and my two brothers, uh,
8:12
Speaker 1: and everything that we owned in a car and we
8:15
Speaker 1: drove to Texas. And so we started our lives with
8:18
Speaker 1: just the five of us and not much else in
8:21
Speaker 1: an apartment. Okay, And so what part of Texas were
8:24
Speaker 1: you in? Arlington, Texas? So when you were growing up,
8:26
Speaker 1: were you interested in finance? Always? No? Um, what did
8:31
Speaker 1: you want to do? I don't know. My dad would
8:33
Speaker 1: say I was going to be a lawyer. I guess
8:34
Speaker 1: because I would always debate everything in the house. I
8:37
Speaker 1: think what I knew at a younger age is whatever
8:40
Speaker 1: I would do, I would do it well, um, And
8:42
Speaker 1: whatever I would do, I would want to make sure
8:44
Speaker 1: that I'm inspiring and making impact. And that's been true
8:46
Speaker 1: throughout my career. Now, you were a gifted athlete when
8:49
Speaker 1: you were younger? Aren't all athletes saying we were gifted?
8:52
Speaker 1: But I was pretty good. I was pretty good in
8:54
Speaker 1: basketball and volleyball. Didn't try to play professionally, No, And
8:59
Speaker 1: if I tried to in this day and age, I
9:01
Speaker 1: might be a water girl at that point. I mean,
9:04
Speaker 1: the skills are just incredible today. Where did you go
9:07
Speaker 1: to school in Arlington public schools? I did Sam Houston
9:10
Speaker 1: High School, Okay? And you like the name Houston, so
9:13
Speaker 1: you decided to go to the University of Houston as well?
9:15
Speaker 1: That's right. You know there's something special about Houston, so
9:18
Speaker 1: I why not mess up the trend? All right? So
9:20
Speaker 1: you graduated? What did you study? Their income security or
9:23
Speaker 1: something like that? Absolutely right? Now. I graduated from the
9:26
Speaker 1: University of Houston with degrees in finance and marketing. Okay.
9:30
Speaker 1: And what did you decide you wanted to do after that? Well,
9:32
Speaker 1: what's interesting, um, is that there's a program called in
9:35
Speaker 1: Roads and UM in roses a program for minorities that
9:39
Speaker 1: give you exposure into corporate America. In Rose is my disruptor.
9:43
Speaker 1: Um in Roads is what gave me an opportunity to
9:46
Speaker 1: even know the word corporate America. And so I interned
9:49
Speaker 1: at a company called Fannie May, and that's how I
9:51
Speaker 1: got exposure into financial services. Okay, she went to work
9:55
Speaker 1: for Fanny May. I did. And did you get an
9:57
Speaker 1: m b A as well? At some point I did.
9:59
Speaker 1: While I was at Fannie May, I was able to
10:02
Speaker 1: work full time and pursue my m b A. And
10:05
Speaker 1: I did that at Baylor. So you later joined a
10:08
Speaker 1: firm called Chase, Yes, a little bank in uh, New York.
10:13
Speaker 1: Who recruited you to Chase? Yeah? So at the time
10:16
Speaker 1: it was the CEO of the mortgage company. Um. And
10:18
Speaker 1: I was on Fannie May business in New York and
10:21
Speaker 1: presented And then afterwards he asked me a question. I
10:24
Speaker 1: don't know or remember what it was, but I answered
10:27
Speaker 1: it uh. And then he said, I hear you're highly
10:30
Speaker 1: regarded at Fanny May. What would it take for you
10:32
Speaker 1: to join Chase? And what did you say? Um? I said,
10:35
Speaker 1: we can meet for lunch. Okay, Okay, so you ultimately, um,
10:40
Speaker 1: I guess convinced him that you should be hired and
10:43
Speaker 1: you joined Chase. Is that right? Well, I would say
10:45
Speaker 1: he ultimately convinced me. Um. But yeah, so at that time,
10:50
Speaker 1: and really what's so interesting about this story is that
10:53
Speaker 1: about six months before that meeting, I said to myself,
10:56
Speaker 1: no matter how much I love Fanny May, I really
10:59
Speaker 1: believed in mission. The mission is our business. The business
11:01
Speaker 1: is our mission. Um. I could never get closer to
11:04
Speaker 1: the consumer being in the secondary market, and so one
11:07
Speaker 1: of my goals was to get closer to the consumer,
11:09
Speaker 1: and this opportunity allowed me to do that. So you
11:11
Speaker 1: rose up to be the president of Chase Consumer Bank. Yes,
11:15
Speaker 1: you oversaw that for how many years? For about three years?
11:19
Speaker 1: Three years? Three years? Did you ever have an a
11:21
Speaker 1: t M card denied when you were trying to do
11:23
Speaker 1: You're the head of that. Never your a t M
11:25
Speaker 1: card ever get denied. What do you do if that happens? Well,
11:28
Speaker 1: you know what if you do? I say self, no,
11:30
Speaker 1: I know who to call within the team to help.
11:32
Speaker 1: So I never had my card denied, but we would
11:34
Speaker 1: do some testing. I would absolutely pop in a branch
11:36
Speaker 1: and I hope they didn't know who I was and
11:38
Speaker 1: just asked a few questions, you ever have a credit
11:40
Speaker 1: card really denied? I guess, well, I mean it's a
11:43
Speaker 1: it's a tough feeling when it's you know, when you
11:44
Speaker 1: get denied, but you know they're just doing it. You
11:47
Speaker 1: didn't say you know who I am, I'm the head
11:49
Speaker 1: of this Yeah, I did not. I just just treat
11:52
Speaker 1: it like everyone else. All right. So, UM, how how
11:56
Speaker 1: long ago did you get approached by T A T
11:59
Speaker 1: I A. Yeah, this happened in Okay and during the
12:04
Speaker 1: COVID period of time. Yes, so, um, all right, so
12:07
Speaker 1: they approached you and they said, would you like to
12:09
Speaker 1: be the president and chief executive officer? And you said,
12:13
Speaker 1: let me ask Jamie Diamond. Is that what you said?
12:16
Speaker 1: Not exactly? Uh, you know, I think you know. It
12:20
Speaker 1: was a long interview process, um, and clearly they were
12:24
Speaker 1: able to tell me all the wonderful things about this company,
12:27
Speaker 1: and over time I fell in love with the company,
12:29
Speaker 1: UM and realized that this definitely was the next best
12:33
Speaker 1: move for me in my career. I think this is
12:35
Speaker 1: the most amazing job. I get to lead a company,
12:38
Speaker 1: a Fortune one hundred company that's anchored in a mission
12:42
Speaker 1: to make sure that everyone has access to retirement and
12:44
Speaker 1: can retire with dignity. Um. So yeah, this is a
12:48
Speaker 1: phenomenal opportunity that get a privileged to lead. So are
12:51
Speaker 1: you surprised there only two women? You're one of them
12:53
Speaker 1: who is running a Fortune five company today, who is
12:56
Speaker 1: an African American woman? Is that surprising to you at
12:58
Speaker 1: this time? And it's surprising, um in one sense, but
13:06
Speaker 1: not surprising in the other. Surprising in the sense that
13:10
Speaker 1: there's so many talented African American women that could absolutely
13:14
Speaker 1: lead a Fortune five. It's not surprising because we know
13:18
Speaker 1: that there's only ever been three full time for total
13:22
Speaker 1: to run a Fortune five Um. And it just says
13:24
Speaker 1: that we have a lot more work to do, not
13:27
Speaker 1: just in corporate America, but in so many other facets
13:29
Speaker 1: of our society. So what are you doing at T
13:31
Speaker 1: I A a about diversity and equity and inclusion in
13:34
Speaker 1: your management ranks and on your employee ranks. So how
13:37
Speaker 1: do you rank in in that area? Now? Well, we're
13:41
Speaker 1: at the very top and it starts with the board
13:43
Speaker 1: and I'm fortunate enough to have a board of trustees
13:46
Speaker 1: that UH, commitment to diversity, equity and inclusion is something
13:50
Speaker 1: that's always been a part of who we are at
13:51
Speaker 1: t I A. A. Our board is very diverse. My
13:54
Speaker 1: management team is probably one of the diverse management teams
13:57
Speaker 1: of any Fortune five company. H And when I think
14:00
Speaker 1: about our why, you know, it's just saying I want
14:03
Speaker 1: the best talent. And if you fundamentally believe that talent
14:07
Speaker 1: is created equally, opportunity is not. You'll always ask who's
14:10
Speaker 1: not at who's not at the table, who's not in
14:12
Speaker 1: the room. And I get to surround myself with people
14:15
Speaker 1: that have that same level of resolve. Now, E s
14:18
Speaker 1: G is a big thing in the investment world. A
14:20
Speaker 1: lot of your clients say they really care about E
14:23
Speaker 1: s G performance of your invest in the group you
14:25
Speaker 1: invest with, or how do you measure your E s
14:27
Speaker 1: G performance at at T I A. Yeah, I mean
14:30
Speaker 1: we've always been committed to E s G. And when
14:33
Speaker 1: I think about our y, I mean clearly, uh, we
14:37
Speaker 1: believe that it's core to long term growth, and it's
14:40
Speaker 1: core to understanding and mitigating risk um and we also
14:43
Speaker 1: understand you know, the important role that it can play
14:45
Speaker 1: in society, and so our participants are very much curious
14:49
Speaker 1: about what we're doing in E s G. Navine clearly
14:52
Speaker 1: has been a leader in E. S. G UM and
14:54
Speaker 1: it's a conversation that we have on campus. It's a
14:57
Speaker 1: conversation that we have at universities and hospitals, etcetera. So
15:01
Speaker 1: it absolutely is top of mind. So today you must
15:04
Speaker 1: be asked to be involved in a lot of nonprofit
15:06
Speaker 1: organizations and going nonprofit boards and philanthropic things. How do
15:09
Speaker 1: you decide what's the most important priorities for you? Yeah, Well,
15:13
Speaker 1: it is important for me to give back, and I
15:15
Speaker 1: am pretty well allocated. But I start with where can
15:19
Speaker 1: I make impact. I start with things that I care about,
15:22
Speaker 1: um and I and I start with things that I
15:24
Speaker 1: think ultimately I can learn from. And so whether that's
15:27
Speaker 1: having my own foundation, whether that's being on the board
15:30
Speaker 1: of Robert F. Kennedy Human Rights or the Economic Club
15:32
Speaker 1: of New York, etcetera, they're all areas that I am
15:36
Speaker 1: able to hopefully make a difference, as importantly I'm able
15:39
Speaker 1: to learn from others. What does your own foundation do? Yeah?
15:42
Speaker 1: So the Otis and Rosie Brown Foundation, uh is. It's
15:46
Speaker 1: based in Texas, and um, it's giving homage to Otis
15:49
Speaker 1: and Rosie Brown everyday people that made an extraordinary impact.
15:52
Speaker 1: So the organization is extraordinary is dot org. And what
15:55
Speaker 1: we do is we provide scholarships based on character because
15:59
Speaker 1: that's how I was east. I rent my title, I
16:01
Speaker 1: owned my character, um, and so we want to know
16:03
Speaker 1: your story. And then we also provide micro grants too
16:06
Speaker 1: small organizations, people that may not be as connected UM,
16:10
Speaker 1: people that may have started their organization out of some
16:13
Speaker 1: form of loss or trauma. Basically, I want to see
16:17
Speaker 1: the unseen and I want to remind people that how
16:20
Speaker 1: they're able to make an impact are the things that
16:22
Speaker 1: reside within them. Your parents are alive, they are and
16:25
Speaker 1: do they call you with advice from time and time
16:27
Speaker 1: and say, look, and you're still our girl, and we
16:29
Speaker 1: want to tell you what to do. Well, you know
16:31
Speaker 1: it's great. Otis and Rosie Brown are my heroes. And
16:34
Speaker 1: when they call me, it's not about my rented title.
16:38
Speaker 1: You know, they're reminding me about my character. UM, They're
16:41
Speaker 1: reminding me to stay humble. They're reminding me to make
16:44
Speaker 1: sure that you know, I'm looking out for others and
16:47
Speaker 1: making impact. And then Otis Brown is just reminding me
16:50
Speaker 1: that he's very proud and he may brag a little
16:52
Speaker 1: bit about what I do and how I do it.
16:54
Speaker 1: So he's my biggest cheerleader. So one of your concerns
16:57
Speaker 1: is making certain there's access to financial security. So what
17:01
Speaker 1: have you done at t I A A to make
17:03
Speaker 1: certain that people who are underserved actually get a fair break.
17:08
Speaker 1: What I'm really proud of UM is that at t
17:10
Speaker 1: I A A we just don't focus on the professors.
17:15
Speaker 1: We spend a lot of time talking to universities about
17:19
Speaker 1: the people that are cleaning the grounds. Uh. We meet
17:22
Speaker 1: with them and we will share data and insights to
17:25
Speaker 1: say here's who's participating, here's who's not. We have what
17:28
Speaker 1: we call a mission metric to see are you on
17:31
Speaker 1: track and to be able to talk to a university
17:33
Speaker 1: to say, here are those that are on track and
17:35
Speaker 1: here those that are not, and how can we work
17:37
Speaker 1: together to provide advice, have our wealth advisors meet with them,
17:40
Speaker 1: be able to do UM fairs, but also advocate as
17:44
Speaker 1: a matter of policy on how do we make things
17:46
Speaker 1: easier for all Americans to be able to have access
17:49
Speaker 1: to a four one K four three B plan in
17:51
Speaker 1: a way that's easy auto enrollment, auto escalation, in a
17:55
Speaker 1: way that can make sure that we're bringing education insights
17:58
Speaker 1: to them as well. So you're described have this situation.
18:00
Speaker 1: Your father he didn't ne really know what a four
18:02
Speaker 1: oh one K was or how to apply for it.
18:04
Speaker 1: How do you now deal with people in the equivalent position?
18:07
Speaker 1: What do you do to educate them? Yeah? I mean
18:10
Speaker 1: first we have to meet people where they are um
18:12
Speaker 1: and we know that money is emotional and when you're
18:14
Speaker 1: a notice Brown, you know trying to do the best
18:16
Speaker 1: that you can. It's not enough for companies to say
18:19
Speaker 1: that we have it on our website or that we
18:21
Speaker 1: put a flyer together. I think what we all have
18:23
Speaker 1: to do as leaders is we have to go to
18:25
Speaker 1: the warehouse. We have to make sure that we're talking
18:28
Speaker 1: in a way that Otis Brown can say this is
18:30
Speaker 1: something that I need to do today. And so what
18:32
Speaker 1: we're what we are doing at t i A, whether
18:34
Speaker 1: that's digital, whether that's through benefits and affairs, were really
18:38
Speaker 1: working with our plan sponsors to say, how do we
18:41
Speaker 1: reach every faculty and staff at your university if it's
18:45
Speaker 1: in a different language, how do we do that. How
18:47
Speaker 1: do we make sure that if they need to bring
18:49
Speaker 1: their family, we do that. So the point is it's
18:51
Speaker 1: not just looking at the overall plan and say yes,
18:54
Speaker 1: we have a plan. Yes we have benefits, Yes we
18:57
Speaker 1: provide education. We have to look at engagement. Are they
19:00
Speaker 1: engaging and then what's happening in terms of the outcome. Now,
19:03
Speaker 1: women on average have about a thirty percent lower um
19:06
Speaker 1: I guess amount of money saved up for retirement compared
19:09
Speaker 1: to men. So what are you doing about that? Yeah,
19:12
Speaker 1: so we launched a campaign called Retire Inequality um and
19:15
Speaker 1: we do know that women retire with thirty percent less
19:17
Speaker 1: women make eight three cents on the dollar. And so
19:20
Speaker 1: there's a couple of things that we're doing. One, it's
19:22
Speaker 1: having this conversation and making sure that we all are
19:24
Speaker 1: aware that there is a gap by the way women
19:26
Speaker 1: live longer than men, so longevity risk is a real factor. Secondly,
19:30
Speaker 1: it's about making sure that we are talking to women
19:33
Speaker 1: about what can you do differently and so whether that's
19:36
Speaker 1: negotiating pay and what are some tools that are out there,
19:39
Speaker 1: making sure that you take the time to negotiate, because
19:41
Speaker 1: we know women do not negotiate as much as men,
19:43
Speaker 1: which put you at a disadvantage to start. But then
19:46
Speaker 1: also along the way, making sure that women are securing
19:49
Speaker 1: their own retirement and that is part of their retirement plan.
19:52
Speaker 1: We're having much more conversation around guaranteed income as well,
19:55
Speaker 1: and so ensuring that we understand what are the nuances
19:58
Speaker 1: for women. If you think about COVID, two million women
20:01
Speaker 1: exited the workforce, they did not continue to contribute to
20:05
Speaker 1: their for one care for three B plan. And so
20:07
Speaker 1: how do we make sure as a matter of policy,
20:09
Speaker 1: as a matter of engagement, that women can have an
20:12
Speaker 1: opportunity to catch up, That women can understand that if
20:15
Speaker 1: you exit the workforce and now you're back, that that's
20:17
Speaker 1: two years of compounding that you are not able to
20:20
Speaker 1: take advantage of. And how do we continue to make
20:22
Speaker 1: sure that we're educating them and giving the tools that
20:24
Speaker 1: they need to get back on tracks. Now, do you
20:26
Speaker 1: ever go to Washington, d C of lobbying members of Congress?
20:29
Speaker 1: You ever do that? I do UM find that an
20:32
Speaker 1: uplifting experience. When you know what's been great is that
20:38
Speaker 1: talking about retirement, recognizing that all Americans run the risk
20:42
Speaker 1: of running out of money. What I find is it's
20:45
Speaker 1: a bipartisan conversation. So talking to Republicans, Democrats, and independence
20:50
Speaker 1: all care about this issue. And when I think about
20:52
Speaker 1: what we're talking about, there's three areas. One, there's an
20:56
Speaker 1: access gap. We know one third of workers public workers
21:00
Speaker 1: do not have access to an employer sponsor plan, and
21:03
Speaker 1: so working with government to say, how do we have
21:05
Speaker 1: policies to make it easier for small businesses UH and
21:08
Speaker 1: take some of the complexity out to be able to
21:10
Speaker 1: provide that benefit. There's a savings gap. We talked to
21:13
Speaker 1: policymakers about overt Americans are not saving for retirement and
21:18
Speaker 1: so how do we work with employers to have auto
21:20
Speaker 1: enrollment auto escalation. And then lastly we talk about a
21:23
Speaker 1: guarantee gap, which is how do we make sure that
21:26
Speaker 1: we can have in plant annuities like t i A
21:28
Speaker 1: traditional as part of an investment allocation. So when you
21:32
Speaker 1: go to Washington, do you ever say I could do
21:33
Speaker 1: a better job than these members of Congress? You ever
21:36
Speaker 1: thought about running for office yourself? For not for you.
21:39
Speaker 1: I'm focused on being the CEO of t i A
21:41
Speaker 1: right now. And suppose the President United States called you
21:44
Speaker 1: and said you are so talented, I want you to
21:45
Speaker 1: be in my cabinet. Would you ever serve in the
21:47
Speaker 1: cabinet of our president? Or you don't want to go
21:49
Speaker 1: to Washington at all? Well, clearly if a president called
21:51
Speaker 1: me to serve, it's something that I would take under consideration,
21:54
Speaker 1: but not if it conflicted with being the CEO of
21:56
Speaker 1: t I A might be a conflict there, It might
21:59
Speaker 1: be hard to do both, be a little bit of
22:00
Speaker 1: a conflict. But maybe at some point down the road.
22:03
Speaker 1: I want to make impact and however I can make impact,
22:06
Speaker 1: That's what I'm here to do. And if at some
22:08
Speaker 1: point in time, after I'm long gone from, you know,
22:11
Speaker 1: being a CEO, if there is an opportunity to be
22:14
Speaker 1: of service in another capacity, I would always take that
22:17
Speaker 1: under advice. So today, what is the most thing You're
22:20
Speaker 1: most proud of? What you're in your current position? Most
22:22
Speaker 1: proud of what you've achieved. You've been in a position
22:24
Speaker 1: a relatively short period of time. But what are you
22:26
Speaker 1: most proud of what you've achieved so far? Wow? I
22:31
Speaker 1: am most proud of really getting back to the core
22:36
Speaker 1: of what we do UM and designing and building products
22:42
Speaker 1: that can truly meet the needs of today and helping
22:44
Speaker 1: more Americans retire with dignity. UM. I'm very proud of
22:49
Speaker 1: earning the right. When you come in as a new
22:51
Speaker 1: CEO from the outside, you have to earn the right
22:54
Speaker 1: with your team and with your clients. And I believe
22:57
Speaker 1: I'm earning that right every single day, and that makes
23:00
Speaker 1: me very proud of and If Andrew Carnegie came back,
23:04
Speaker 1: what would you like to ask him about his program?
23:06
Speaker 1: Would you tell him either a pretty good job or
23:08
Speaker 1: you tell him you've made some improvements on it. I
23:11
Speaker 1: would tell him we're not done yet. Um. I would
23:14
Speaker 1: tell him, thank you. My mother is a retired educator.
23:17
Speaker 1: I would tell him that his ability to see an
23:21
Speaker 1: educator educating the world's greatest minds retire in poverty and
23:26
Speaker 1: not in dignity is exactly what we are still here
23:28
Speaker 1: to do and will do for the next one years.
23:31
Speaker 1: There's a quote by Andrew Carnegie that says, and I
23:35
Speaker 1: don't want to misquote, but something like, uh, you're not
23:40
Speaker 1: rich until you enrich others, the lives of others. And
23:43
Speaker 1: I would say, Andrew Carnegie, you absolutely enriched the lives
23:48
Speaker 1: of others, and it's our accountability and responsibility to make
23:51
Speaker 1: sure that we continue to do that. Thanks for listening
23:55
Speaker 1: to hear more of my interviews. You can subscribe and
23:57
Speaker 1: download my podcast on Spotify, Apple, or wherever you listen.
24:09
Speaker 1: M HM