Latest / Clear Admit MBA Admissions Podcast / MBA Wire Taps 411—Impact of GRE verbal. Same firm or branded firm. Foster vs McCombs.

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MBA Wire Taps 411—Impact of GRE verbal. Same firm or branded firm. Foster vs McCombs. · Clear Admit MBA Admissions Podcast

• 0:17
  Speaker A: Welcome to the Clear Admit MBA Admissions Podcast. I'm Graham Richmond and this is your Wiretaps for Monday, February 24, 2025. I'm joined by Alex Brown from Cornwall, England. Alex, how are things?
• 0:29
  Speaker B: Very good, thank you, Graham.
• 0:30
  Speaker A: So last week was busy, right? We had some big schools getting out invitations to interview. Want to run us through what's been going on?
• 0:37
  Speaker B: Yeah, the last two big interview drops, as you might say, amongst the top schools, Wharton and Sloan. Actually Sloan beat Warner the gate this time and I don't think that happens very often, if at all. So. Yeah, but yeah, no, lots of activity on Live Wire last week in terms of interview invites. So folks will be really scrambling for interview prep and so on and so forth now. But also this upcoming week we've got some decision deadlines actually for a few schools. So. Well, Washington Olin, Georgia Tech Sheller and SMU Cox as well as Oxford say have got rolling out final decisions. So we're starting to edge towards, toward that end of the round two cycle. So yeah, lots is happening.
• 1:31
  Speaker A: Excellent. And you've also been closely monitoring people's use of Ask Clear Admit, our little AI bot. And I feel like every day you've got a new story to tell. Could you kind of, you know, you get the reports on like how many people are using it and how it's going and so. Anything you want to share there?
• 1:47
  Speaker B: Yeah, no, I mean it's really interesting and I'm just so excited on how it's sort of, you know, folks are using it and, and so forth and yesterday or the day before and obviously we're recording Thursday of last week, but somebody asked, I think it was up to 34 questions but, but I mean that's how you should use a bot, right? Follow up questions, etc, etc, and they were asking about, you know, the different programs that they've targeted, some of which they've got interview invites, some not and so on and so forth. So it's really interesting to see and it is really interesting to observe how the bot is being used. And I'll be very clear, we don't know who this is, we don't track it to an individual. So people can be quite, we should be very clear about that. But we track by session ID basically so we can see the conversations. And then what I do on the back end is test the responses just to make sure that the bot is smarter than me effectively in responding. Well, I'm just saying, I mean it's crazy but because it's trained on all of our historical content over the years, and some of which is written by me, some of which was written by yourself and various other folks on the publishing team that Lauren manages, etc. Etc. Including Lauren, of course, with the admissions tips, etc. But I mean, no one on our team knows this stuff collectively as well as the bot. That's kind of how I look at it. So yeah, yeah, very interesting.
• 3:40
  Speaker A: So before we get into kind of news and notes and we got a few kind of fun things to talk about, I did want to mention we have one more event this Wednesday for master's in management programs. And just as an FYI, if you're tuning in, these programs are for people with zero to maybe two or three years of experience, so early career or just direct out of college. And the schools that I'm going to sit down with at the webinar, which is at noon on Wednesday, are Chicago Booth, Emory, Indiana, Duke and London Business School. And you can sign up at bit ly mim 0225 for February 25th. So yeah, join us if you can. Other news and Notes Alex We've got one more piece that we ran about great podcasts to listen to, and this was focused on podcasts coming out of European MBA programs and business schools. So that's up on the site. I see lots of interview reports are flowing into the site, but I do want to make a plug. We always need more. Pay it forward. If you use the interview archive to prep for your upcoming interview or past interviews, please share your experience in the archive. It's how that whole thing works. It's all free for everyone and it only works because people are kind to each other and pay it forward and stuff. So please use that. The other big thing, I'll just add that up though.
• 4:58
  Speaker B: Graham. Absolutely. The quality of that interview archive that we have really relies on recent interview reports. So anyone that's used the interview archive, if you could return that favor and provide the reports, that would be fantastic. Paying it forward for the next folks coming along. And I was sort of again, back to I'm obsessed with this bot, Graham. I have to say that again, it is smarter than me. So I acknowledge that at this point. But you could almost use the BOT to do some interview prep, right? You can ask it, you know, give me some typical MBA interview questions. It'll give you some typical questions. You can identify the particular school, etc. Etc. And then you can say, all right, ask me. You know, ask me a question, and then I'll provide the response, evaluate the response, etcetera. Etc. I mean, it's a little. In terms of that, it would be a little bit common. Again, the creativity that we're seeing in how people using the bot I find absolutely fascinating.
• 6:05
  Speaker A: Yeah. And I think your dog is really excited about the so. But I want to talk also about something big that happened last week was that the Financial Times released their, quote, global NBA rankings. And they do this every year. And you know, I'll give you the top 10 overall, but then I want to just get your take on this stuff because, you know, so the top 10 overall, Wharton came in first. We were obviously excited second year in a row that Wharton lands in the top spot. Columbia was in second, ESE in third, INSEAD in fourth, tied with Bocconi. So that's fourth place. Over in sixth place we had MIT Sloan, followed by London Business School, ESADE, HEC, Paris and Northwestern. Kellogg rounding out the top 10. I find these a little confusing, but I just kind of. Just because of the mix of kind of us and non us or, you know. But I do have lists here of like, you know, just the US Schools. We kind of broke them out. We did an article on our site where we sort of broke out by region because I think that's a little more instructive. But what's your take on these rankings? And yeah, I mean, how do you think they went this year for some of the top schools?
• 7:13
  Speaker B: I mean, Financial Times is based in London. Is it? That's it, still based in London? Yeah. It's got a European focus, obviously, because, I mean, I mean, obviously there's some great MBA programs in Europe and congratulations to all these programs listed. I've got a big obvious bias towards London Business School because they've given me a load of work and so forth. I think it's very difficult. You're going to talk about this in a minute. Very difficult to compare and contrast the top programs in very different geographies because people are going to those programs for very different career objectives, et cetera, et cetera, geographic objectives. So there's that. Let's just focus on the US schools. They listed Wharton, Columbia and Sloan. They're three M7 programs, but they don't include Harvard or Stanford in that list. So again, you've got to really examine how they're coming up with these rankings. So what are the factors? You'll go into that in a minute. And I just assume that some of the factors are not as relevant to candidates because the data that we see would not compile a list that looks exactly like Financial Times list.
• 8:34
  Speaker A: Yeah, it is interesting. So in that top 10 that I read out, there are just four American schools. And I'm very much. I totally understand that the European schools have grown over the years and are really doing well, but six out of the top 10 are European schools. And you do point out the FT is headquartered in Europe, in the UK. So that is kind of an interesting tidbit. The fourth M7 school that made the top 10 in terms of US is Kellogg. So you had Wharton, MIT, Columbia, and Kellogg in that top 10. But that's why it's instructive, I think, to look at these by region. So, you know, again, as I said on our site, we just basically made our own ranking of the FT ranking by just pulling out schools by region. And when you look at the top 20 or so the first 20American schools on the list, it's all the usual suspects. Now, you could debate the order, but they're there. Like the very best schools that we see in US News or businessweek. They're all there. It makes a lot of sense. There is one exception, though. You pointed out that Harvard and Stanford weren't in the top 10 when it came to the overall ranking. But Harvard actually was still in the ranking, but Stanford is not in the ranking. Do you have any idea what's going on there? I honestly don't.
• 9:46
  Speaker B: I just assume Stanford didn't qualify because they probably didn't get enough alumni to respond. I don't know that I haven't read that. I make that assumption simply because there's no other reason. Right, right. It's absolutely crazy because we all know that Stanford's a top two, top three program in the world, et cetera, et cetera. And I will tell you, Graham, and I hate to keep plugging bot, but if you ask our BOT to rank the top 20 programs, it'll give you a ranking that's better than the Financial Times ranking.
• 10:22
  Speaker A: Yeah. And I think my guess is Stanford's not there. You're right. Probably because they didn't get the participation rate that they needed from alumni, which is possible. Or it's possible that they just decided not to take part, which they're allowed to do, I think. Right. They can just tell the FT they don't want to do it. So.
• 10:38
  Speaker B: But it would then be incumbent on the FT to explain that because it's ridiculous. You know, here's a ranking that says here are the top programs in the world. Oh, and by the way, it doesn't include. And then you should list the schools it doesn't include. Because.
• 10:56
  Speaker A: Anyway, we could fill a show complaining about all these rankings that are imperfect and not as good as the data that we gather via Decision Wire on our website. But I did want to just mention, on the European side, when you look at the top 10, you get again, just the first 10 European schools that came up in this global ranking, you get ESA, INSEAD, Bocconi, LBs, ESADE, HEC, IE, IMD, Oxford, and ESCP. So a lot of the best schools in Europe are the first schools on the list. There is one school that's missing from there that I don't really understand why they didn't make this first 10 or so. Do you know which one it is?
• 11:34
  Speaker B: Well, you didn't mention George.
• 11:36
  Speaker A: Yeah, I mean, I'm really surprised by that. It's a great MBA program, one of the best. And it's odd that they're not, you know, they're on the list, they're just further down. Right. So. But I was surprised by that. So.
• 11:47
  Speaker B: And I love the Financial Times as a newspaper. Oh, sure. And again, it's kind of like if we ever talk about the Economist, if the Economist is still doing this, the Economist's rankings were terrible, despite the fact that the Economist is a fantastic media. So I don't think Financial Times rankings are as skew with as the economists were. But I guess my biggest beef is why is Stanford not there?
• 12:15
  Speaker A: Yeah, I agree. And then the last thing I'll just add is that we know from survey work we do with the applicant pool what matters to candidates when they're making decisions about where to apply, where to attend. And looking at the methodology from the ft, I see a lot of stuff in their methodology, pieces that count towards the ranking that are not terribly important to candidates, for better or for worse. This isn't a judgment, but I'm just saying the FT has made a big effort to, you know, to insert stuff like carbon footprint, percentage of female faculty, and lots of things that I think are important. But when we see how candidates behave when they're voting with their feet about where they're going to go and where they're going to apply, those factors are not what's making the, you know, it's really more around, you know, prestige, network salary, you know, ability to achieve your career plan, basically. So in any event. So I think the rankings always are changing their methodology to keep up with the times, but also I think to get different outcomes and make us all talk about them. So here we are. We could probably spend a whole podcast talking about this stuff, but let's move on and talk about some other things. So we did on the website, Alex, we ran a couple more admissions tips, one about background checks. So if you get into business school, a background check is something that you may have to go through. So you should read that. We also did a great piece for Valentine's Day about applying as a couple to business school. So that's a fun read and there's some really good advice in there, too. Another thing, Alex, is we got a couple of admissions director Q and A's in. We actually connected with Christine Drummey over at Babson Olin, their MBA program. And we also heard from Teresa Pero Camaro, who is the director of admissions over at INSEAD in Fontainebleau and Singapore. So those are up on the site. If you're curious about either of those programs, you should definitely read those interviews. And we had one more entry in our Real Numbers series where we profiled US Minorities. So within the US Business schools, what's the percentage of minority populations? So we included that. I don't know that schools are going to continue to be reporting that stuff. I really don't know what's going to happen with the current presidential administration in Washington. It's a little bit of a mess. But we have that data, so we shared it.
• 14:27
  Speaker B: It's crazy.
• 14:28
  Speaker A: It is, yes.
• 14:29
  Speaker B: I don't want to get political on this program, Graeme.
• 14:31
  Speaker A: Right. Yeah, we'll hold back. Yeah, it's really crazy. So other than that, Alex, I did want to say there's a podcast episode that's going to come out, I'm hoping in the next week or so. You know about this because I mentioned it in our team meeting. But I was able to sit down with the general manager of the Philadelphia Phillies who's currently getting an MBA at Wharton in their executive MBA program. And we did a great 40, 45 minute interview about all things sports and business and that intersection. And we talked a lot about your favorite sport, Alex, baseball. So I'm sure you'll be tuning into that. Yeah.
• 15:11
  Speaker B: What was Adam at? About 30 seconds of the whole conversation, I suppose.
• 15:15
  Speaker A: Oh, boy. Yeah. So that's forthcoming. Stay tuned, everyone. Other than that, if you want to write to Alex or me, you can just write to infoearadmit.com and use the subject line wiretap. Alex, anything else before we talk about this week's candidates?
• 15:28
  Speaker B: I'm surprised you didn't make me say congratulations to the Philadelphia Eagles or some ridiculous idea about them winning that super bowl game over there. But anyway, no, let's kick on.
• 15:40
  Speaker A: All right, so this is WireTaps candidate number one. Our first candidate this week has eight schools on the target list. Those schools are Duke, HEC, Paris, Michigan, Kellogg, Oxford, Toronto, Rotman, UNC and USC Marshall. So they want to start. They're actually a bit of an early bird and they're actually thinking of applying kind of next fall, potentially to start in fall 26. They have been working in consulting, they're interested in tech pharma or maybe even entrepreneurship. And so their target companies at the moment are mostly, they've got Microsoft and then they've got Amgen J and J Pfizer. So a bit of a healthcare vent. They've taken the GRE and their current score is a 292. Their GPA from undergrad is a 3.0. They have two and a half years of work experience to date located in D.C. and they want to land specifically in either New York or, meaning New York City or Canada after business school. And they mentioned that, you know, by the time that they start an mba they would probably have about four years of work experience. They're also kind of curious about dual degrees, but they haven't yet looked into the admissions process too much. And that second degree would be in healthcare. So probably healthcare, you know, maybe a master's in public health or one of these kind of healthcare oriented master's degrees. And they just wonder if they're kind of what we think, you know, in terms of do they need to gain more experience, how can they improve? And Alex, you had a lot of back and forth with this candidate once you started sort of chiming in on apply wire with them. So do you want to take us through what you make of their candidacy and. Yeah, what they told you.
• 17:25
  Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, obviously the benefit here, and it's the same with our second candidate, is that they're looking ahead. So they've got a year or two to really strengthen their overall profile. So that's very good. So let's presume this candidate has very good work experience and if not, they've got to elevate that. So they've really got to show that impact and growth at work over that four year period. So it's not a question. And one of their questions was, will I have enough experience? It's not a question of length, it's a question of quality and sort of experiences through that work experience that they can then draw from and they've grown from, etc. Etc. So that might be after three years. It might be after five years and, and so forth, and then the same with that outside of work activities and experience. So they've done some decent things outside of work, I think, and they do some ministry work, et cetera, et cetera. And not to underplay that aspect of their profile because it can help differentiate them further. I'm not going to really talk to the dual degree issue because I think that's. I'm not saying it's a red herring, but it' you know, something that I, you know, let's just focus on the MBA admission side of things. The, the weakness is likely going to stem from the numbers. Right. So their GRE and GPA combination. So they have a 3.0 GPA. They do. I think they suggested that they had a positive trend, but, you know, still that's going to be at the lower end of the spectrum. And one of the ways to compensate for that would be a strong test score, which they don't currently have. Now I really encourage them to, you know, spend a lot of time, effort and energy prepping and really driving up that GRE score. And, you know, they're obviously concerned about the quant side of the GRE, which, you know, get it into the 160s, very good. But the total GRE score will also matter. So they're really, I think, quite honestly, Graham, this is the one area that they've really got to push hard to get their very best score.
• 20:01
  Speaker A: Yeah. So what's good about this candidate is they're an early bird and they have a wide range of admissions difficulty across the schools that they've listed. So you have a school like Kellogg, which is an M7 top 10 MBA program, where it's going to be very challenging to get in with a 3.0 GPA and a 292 on the GRE or something. So they have to up their score. There's just no way around it. But they also have some schools on the list. HEC in Paris is always looking for people from North America to come over to Europe. ROT in Toronto. So there's a range of admissions difficulty on the list. But I agree, I mean, I worry when they say, oh, as long as I get. They left you a comment that was sort of to the effect of, as long as I get my quant score up into the zone that these schools look for, that's all that matters. Because business school is quant heavy. And interestingly enough, I've talked to more than one admissions director over the course of my career in this space who Talk about how they actually love looking at the verbal because it's often a great predictor of someone's communication skills or their ability to write and things that, that do play a role in someone's success in their career. So I would like you say focus on the overall score and they need to get it up because right now the GPA is really low. And we always say on the show if you have a low gpa, you need to hit it out of the park on the test to show that balance. Do you think this person should take outside coursework to kind of bolster their gpa, like take some classes or do something else in addition?
• 21:30
  Speaker B: Yes, I think that's probably another thing that they need to look at to bolster the profile. But with the state of their gre, that needs to be resolved. Absolutely. But yeah, absolutely. Looking at whether it's mba, math, hbs, Core, gmax, Business Fundamentals, one of those programs is probably something to be looking at.
• 21:54
  Speaker A: Yeah. And again, I don't want to be too down on this, but I just feel like they have some time and so they need to really. It's like training to run a race. Like they need to just set out to get a really high test score on the GRE and you know, get a tutor, whatever you need to do to get that score up, because that's going to really shape things. You need some sort of data point to counter that 3o GPA. So anyway, I want to wish them the best of luck and thank them for sharing their profile. Alex, let's turn our attention to wiretaps. Candidate number two. So our second candidate this week is also an early bird and has seven schools on the target list. And those schools are Duke, Georgetown, Johns Hopkins, Kellogg, Chicago, Booth, UNC and Yale. This person's been working in financial services and they're thinking about starting business school in like 27. So they're, they're a couple years out from applying. They are thinking post mba that they would want to work in either tech or VC or potentially entrepreneurship. They mention a few, you know, funds like Battery Ventures, Sequoia Capital as possible targets. Their GPA from undergrad is a 3.17. They did provide some context for that. They had an upward trend and they had some kind of health issues, it sounded like as well, but they finished on the dean's list late in their academic career, three years of work experience. They're located in Chicago. They're really not too fussed, but they're sort of focused on east or west coast in terms of where they might land. And they did share a lot of kind of interesting additional information in the note. I mean they mentioned they're African American, male, first generation college grad. They had a full tuition, merit based leadership scholarship to attend Connecticut College. They majored in econ and minored in Africana studies. So they, you know, they taught. They had kind of sports related injury, they actually had a concussion that definitely hurt their GPA early on. They also had some kind of an issue when they were studying abroad in terms of getting grades to translate. But as I said, they finished out strong. They've got a ton of kind of outside experience, volunteer activities. They're currently a part of a program that we love called MLT Management Leadership for Tomorrow. It's a two year kind of MBA prep program. So they're getting lots of advice and counsel on the side as they kind of prepare to apply to business school. But Alex, what do you make of this candidate? And you know, they did ask us some very specific questions. I mean one of which was like what can they do over the next two years to strengthen their candidacy? They haven't yet taken the test, so that's something that we'll get into. They also wondered if, you know, they have a good list of, of schools given that they want to have this interest in strategy and product management and tech and entrepreneurship. And then finally they asked us would a Johns Hopkins dual degree in kind of mba MPH add value given the school's top health programs or is the MBA there too niche? So they're curious about that. So Alex, what do you make of this? There's a lot to unpack here.
• 25:06
  Speaker B: Yeah, I mean again, I think this, this is a really good potential, potentially a really good candidate I should say. And I like, much like our first candidate, the fact that they're looking ahead so you know, they can make some decisions now that potentially could impact their overall profile. And I don't think that. I mean they've got a nice spread of schools in terms of targets, so top 16, top 20 as well as M7. So they've laid out the landscape there pretty well I think. So they've got to get a good test score, right? So they've got plenty of time, much like our first candidate to really put a lot of effort into prepping and getting that competitive test score. And again, why is it important? Because as they note their GPA is below average, 31 7. They have some mitigating circumstance, but the easiest way to sort of overcome that would be getting a better than Average test score. So make sure that they've got plenty of time to prep hard, take the test, take it again if necessary, and so forth. I think they're doing all the right things outside of work. I think they're doing all the right things in work to show that impact and growth that's so super important. I like the fact that they're first gen. They've obviously their lived experience, I think will be very interesting and hopefully that comes through in their applications. But they had this question at the end and this is the reason why I picked this candidate, Graham, even though I think they explicitly asked to be picked. So I quite like that too. But they asked, should I stay at my firm or should I switch to a brand name firm where I might not have the same level of sort of impact? So my gut reaction to that type of query is always to default to stay where you think you're going to have the most impact and growth. Or I use the term stay. So stay where you are. Don't just go chasing the brand name simply because you think that'll look, look good for admissions, but it'd be good to get your perspective on that. Graham.
• 27:38
  Speaker A: Yeah, no, I could not agree more. In fact, I think it's kind of refreshing to see someone who stays at the same firm and has those kind of, you know, periods of growth and increased responsibility. I just, I always find it challenging when you, when you change, you know, you then have to kind of build back up. And so, yeah, I would not rush to do that. But I tend to agree with you on all these other points. I mean, I think this is a really interesting candidate. I think they have some hard work to do on the test because even though they have a good reason for the low GPA and the upward trend, like our first candidate, it's still around a 3.0 type GPA and that's low for the top schools. So they need a tie test score. They're doing outside coursework, which is great. And you are right, I had forgotten that. They left a really nice note. They said, I love the podcast and would be thrilled to be featured as a wiretaps candidate if you're open to it. And they also said something about the support, appreciate all the support that makes this process less stressful. So that's our goal, actually. I mean, our goal as a company is to make this process less stressful for everyone. But Alex, what about. Did you see that other question that I mentioned earlier? They talked about Hopkins and they actually, not only they ask about the Dual degree, but they were kind of like, oh, is the Hopkins MBA an up and comer? Is it going to become like Yale which just sort of surges forward after having been kind of a niche program or something?
• 28:58
  Speaker B: Yeah, I'm not really sure I'd buy that about Yale. I think Yale was effectively a non profit business program and sort of expanded its sort of scope of whatever.
• 29:10
  Speaker A: Right.
• 29:10
  Speaker B: And was quite easily then transitioned into being what's now Effectively a top 10 program just outside the M7. In terms of Johns Hopkins. I think they've got a fantastic reputation as a medical school and probably fantastic reputation in other areas. I think they have a very good business program, but that's not necessarily their forte and it places them maybe It's a top 30 MBA program in the U.S. i've not looked at the rankings in that sort of tier so closely, but obviously we feature them. So it's one of the top MBA programs. And yeah, if you're doing an MBA with focus on healthcare, with the relationship with a medical school, you could probably make a good argument for that. But I don't see a lot of healthcare focus in this candidate's profile in terms of what they've done. And I wouldn't focus on healthcare simply because it might be an interesting way to get into an MBA program. That's an up and comer. I think this candidate's profile would be strong for Johns Hopkins whether they want to pursue health care or not, if they do well on the test, etc. Etc. You know, I've been in this game for, you know, lots and lots of years, as have you yourself, and you won't see an MBA program going from a top 30 spot, wherever John Tompkins currently sits, to Progress to an M7 or Top 10 program. It doesn't happen. And why is that? Because, you know, MBA programs are a function of the quality of their students, their alumni. Those alumni networks, you know, are years in the making. The quality of their faculty, which typically, you know, are tenured faculty years in the making, et cetera, et cetera. So it's, I mean, my point is it's really hard for an up and coming program if, if we call Johns Hopkins an up and coming program to suddenly leap into the top echelon.
• 31:24
  Speaker A: Yeah, it's really challenging. I mean, I think, yeah, thinking back to my early days in this industry, I mean, many of the names that we see at the top of the heap are still the same. Yeah, there's some subtle changes and things, you know, where schools can surge from, you know, top 20, you know, heading towards top 10 or something. But it's, it's really. Yeah.
• 31:41
  Speaker B: And the further you go into the tiers. So top 30, top 40. Yes. You'll see more movement.
• 31:47
  Speaker A: Sure. Yeah, that makes sense.
• 31:49
  Speaker B: But as you get to the top tiers, that movement becomes very limited.
• 31:53
  Speaker A: Yeah. So before we move on and talk about the last candidate this week, I did want to just put a fine point on this subject that you were kind of commenting on, which is, you know, they ask about an MPH degree and they talk about healthcare as an interest. But they, in their note they say, oh, either ed tech, education or healthcare. And when I look at their profile, I see a lot of things that kind of can be woven together around education and the passion they have in that space. But I don't see much evidence on the healthcare side. So I, if I'm giving this person one piece of advice on career track, I would probably focus more on the ed tech space than I would on healthcare. It doesn't seem to fit as much with what I know about them so far, so. But again, they have other fish to fry in the meantime because that's more the fine tuning around essays and school selection. But for now they really just need to work on the test score. So I would definitely. Yeah. Push them in that direction for now.
• 32:49
  Speaker B: Very good.
• 32:50
  Speaker A: Yeah. All right, so let's move on and talk about wiretaps. Candidate number three. So our final candidate this week comes from a decision wire entry that you picked out, Alex. And this person's undecided as usual. They applied, applied to usc, ut, Austin and Washington, Foster, and they actually ran the table. They got money too, so they got $90,000 scholarship at Marshall. McCombs gave them 60 and so did Foster. They are starting school next fall. They want to work in tech, ideally as kind of in a kind of marketing, product marketing sort of role. They had a 334 on the GRE. This candidate is from India. And they're saying, help me decide. And they think that, you know, there are arguments that can be made for, for some of these schools. They specifically focused on UT Austin and on University of Washington, Foster. When they were making their case, they said that, you know, for them Austin is usually better ranked, does very well historically, well rounded outcomes across industries. So they're thinking if I don't get tech, maybe at McCombs I could go and do something like consulting or other areas. Whereas with Foster they say, you know, Foster has these amazing outcomes in technology, which is what they want to do. They also Think there's less competition in Seattle. You know, there's. It's like a kind of niche area of the country. Great employment numbers for internationals as well, apparently. So now they didn't comment on Marshall at all. But what do you make of their decision here and any advice that you have for them?
• 34:27
  Speaker B: Yeah, I think you could pick one of all three. I'm not sure why they discounted Marshall. They didn't express that, but I have it in my notes. Why not Marshall? Yeah, me too. So I would consider again Marshall and McCombs in the same tier and actually Foster may be in the next tier below, but on the edge of that same tier. And I think what's, you know, at the end of the day, I think McCombs maybe gets more interesting because a lot of businesses are relocating their headquarters to Texas because that's what Musk thinks is a good idea, I suppose. So I don't know, maybe that benefits. Benefits an MBA program in Texas. So, yeah, I mean, these three programs, I think with the scholarship offers, etcetera, you can make an absolutely good decision for either of these three. So I would think long and hard. Do you want to be in la? I think they've discounted Marshall. So maybe that's the reason. Do they want to be in Texas after the NBA or do they want to be in the Pacific Northwest, sort of west coast out of Foster? So, yeah, I don't think there's an easy answer, Graham. But you know, at the end of the day, either of these three programs is. They're all sort of quite closely related competitively.
• 35:57
  Speaker A: Yeah. I mean, my view is that. So all three are great for jobs in tech. I mean, these are three very good schools. They're similarly ranked. I think you can obviously Foster maybe a little behind the other two, but they're close, I think. You know, and I think the money from USC 90k probably evens out some of those cost of living differences because, you know, it's not like Seattle and Austin are cheap cities either. But I think, you know, so I don't think that's the money that really. And I will also say that for an urban campus, I mean all these cases, like they all have great campuses. So this isn't like a scenario where you're just, you know, there's no real campus feel. I was actually on the USC Marshall campus not too long ago and it's gorgeous. I mean, they have a large, you know, really large space. It's a. In a nice part of la, et cetera. So I mean, all these places are. They're great institutions. So it really is challenging. And I think you make a great point, which is this person needs to think about, like, where do they want to land? Because I will say there's a lot of regionality around these programs. So if you want to work in Texas, I mean, what better brand than UT Austin? But if you want to work in Seattle, you know, University of Washington is probably a better bet, and, you know, getting those jobs at Microsoft and, you know, Amazon, et cetera. Right. So, yeah, it's just. It's interesting. One thing I will point out is that USC has, as you may remember when we talked about their career port, they have a really great strength in the whole sort of kind of video gaming space. And so that, I mean, that's a big, growing kind of area, and obviously media and entertainment as well. So there's some slight, subtle differences around these programs. But, yeah, I don't know. I would just encourage this person to talk to current students and, yeah, to think long and hard about where they might want to settle for those first few years after school.
• 37:38
  Speaker B: Very good. Very good.
• 37:40
  Speaker A: Yeah. All right. So, Alex, we ran a little long this week, but we had a lot to tackle. And I know we always get a little bit excited about these rankings, and we're mostly criticizing the rankings, but. But, yeah, appreciate all your input and, yeah, let's get together and do this again next week.
• 37:56
  Speaker B: Very good. Stay safe, everyone. Take.