Latest / Powerhouse Lawyers / Why Embracing Failure and Imperfection Is the Pathway to Success with Suzi Hixon
Transcript
- 0:00:01 - Suzi I think the best thing that you can do the first time you screw something up that kind of as a solo or whatever, when you're just trying something new, is to say how I learned from this. 0:00:13 - Erin You are more than a lawyer. You are a powerhouse. Welcome to powerhouse lawyers. I'm your host, erin Garner, a former lawyer, wife, mom, entrepreneur and coach, and I'm here to show you what's possible. So if you're ready, let's go. Hello, welcome back to the show. Everybody, it's Erin powerhouses. I'm so excited you are here. Oh my gosh, I hope everyone is having a fabulous week. I hope, wherever you are listening to this, whether it's in the car, in the shower, in your living room, that you are just, that you're having a great week and that you're feeling gratitude for everything that you have in your life. So what's been going on in Erin's world? Well, at the time of this recording, I just got back from my second sold out powerhouse lawyers retreat. I wish I could actually fully like, describe and I feel like I've got a decent vocabulary like to talk, but I feel like I can never adequately find the words to describe the magic that happens there. It's like it's just magic. Honestly, it's lightning in a bottle when you get all of these next level female attorneys that are in there together and they are, you know, solving the problems for each other, the things that are coming up in their lives, and you know, these women leave and they expressed to me this level of gratitude for providing this space and, you know, making this happen and, in truth be told, I created this space because I I wanted and needed something just like it. I really did, like I was like I don't have these kind of female friends and influences in my life and I and I want it, and so I'm going to create it and the space has just been life changing but also life giving to me, and it really rolls in and segues into the guest that we're going to have and we're going to hear from in a little bit about really taking stock occasionally in your life and career to get still to decide what you really want, what it is something that's happening in your life a job, a situation, a committee, a relationship or whatever it's like. Do you feel like something's not working? Do you feel like it's aligned with your life? When is the last time you stopped and been like is what I'm doing what I really want to be doing and is what I'm in also, in that same light, like is currently what I'm doing, what I want to? How do I want to grow what I'm doing? How do I want to carry it forward if you're working on a project or whatever and I'll just use this for my personal self powerhouse lawyers. I have so many, so many ideas and just bursting at the seams of this company. But I have to also really take stock about what do I want in this season of my life, like how do I, how do I want to grow and scale this company? And that is what I really took away from the retreat and just giving me the piece to be able to know that, like I can pivot, I've got women to depend on. It's OK to change your mind. It's OK if things look different. It's OK to rearrange things. It's OK to just stop and start. It's OK to change your mind. All of those kind of things it just gave me this weekend gave me so much peace about that because, as high achievers and someone who just thinks that you know we're gold, we're all guard, someone who doesn't think that we are gold star chasers, we can't help it and we think that every single thing that we have to do has to be this like crazy home run and all this kind of stuff. And it's really the happiness and the joy that you get from waking up every day is doing what you love in the space that you want to do it and how you want to do it, and being OK with that that maybe it looks different from what you thought it was going to look like or what everybody else thinks that it should. So that's really what I took away from the retreat this weekend and I'm so excited for you to hear from our guests and how she describes her journey and how she is in a pivot right now and I just think that it's so important for us as females, as lawyers, as moms, as high achievers, to know that this life is full of ebb and flows and it's OK for things to look like, to look different in different seasons, and know that things are temporary and still be able to set yourself up to win and move towards your goals and kick butt every day. So I'm excited for you guys to hear from our guests. Cheers, hello, powerhouse lawyers. Welcome back to the show. I'm so excited to introduce my next guest. I absolutely adore this fellow, southern Bell. She's got a beautiful southern accent and we just love to listen to her, and she's also an AI tech genius and helps legally tech or legally challenged attorneys like transform their business. So I'm so excited that she's on the show today. But just to a little bit about Susie before we get started. So Susie Hixon is an accomplished trademark attorney and she's got over 20 years of experience. She's managed I P portfolios for Fortune 500 companies all the way to start ups alike, so she has got a vast experience. She manages a boutique law practice of her own and she focuses on trademark clearance, prosecution and enforcement. She also loves, like I said, she's a great person and she's always helped us, like I said, helping tech challenged attorneys embraced the AI driven legal technology and everything that's going on in the market today, and her expertise and her superpower of bridging law and technology makes her an indispensable resource for attorneys because it helps them excel in today's landscape. And she's also an innovative thinker. She uses her entrepreneurial spirit, her STEM background and help lawyers find creative solutions to their problems. So, suzy, welcome to the show, wow. 0:06:29 - Suzi Thank you so much for having me, erin, I you have no idea how happy I am to be here and get to hang out with you and kind of reconnect, because I know that I took a little time off this summer to work on, you know, just some personal things and spend time with my family and get some sunshine, which is like the most important thing in the world. So I'm, on this, like like kind of health kick when it comes to spending more time outside. Like that's my big thing right now. I think it's so important for us to like touch grass, so it's. I've been kind of a little disconnected, I feel like over the summer, but I'm really really happy to see you and I'm so happy to be here and hang out with you. 0:07:15 - Erin Yeah, it is so incredible how we need to use all of our senses, all of our five senses, and we need to go out and like smell, touch, feel the sunshine, the grass, the nature, and it really does help unlock a layer of creativity and calmness in your mind to allow you to be able to think so I'm with you, like I will I mean seriously in full vulnerability. I will like walk outside, barefoot in my grass and just like walk around in between meetings or like phone calls, just to like, you know, clear my brain and just to like get out of the monotony of what we do. So Bravo to you for like taking a beat, and I know I actually want to talk about this later in the episode, but I would love for you to actually start us off and kind of give us a little bit of history and background about Suzy, who she is, why she went to law school and how you've come full circle now with your own firm and helping attorneys with AI. 0:08:14 - Suzi Gosh okay. Yeah, so I. This is 2023. I graduated from law school in 2020, 2003. Yeah, that's right, I don't even remember. Oh, my gosh Okay. I guess part of it is it blows my mind that I've been out of law school for 20 years. 0:08:33 - Erin Right so, same Susie, same Like. I find myself being like oh, I graduated in 2012. They're like oh, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. I'm like never mind. I was like oh, five, never mind. 0:08:43 - Suzi What am I talking about? A few more years right, it's terrible. Yeah, and lawyers don't math. So why? It's why it's good, that's why I didn't go to math school, right, like I just wasn't mathing and clearly I can't figure up. 2003 to 2023 is 20 years. Yeah, so it goes by really fast, you know. But yeah, so I graduated in 2003. I started out as a patent agent, or actually patent attorney, but I passed the patent bar before I passed the Kentucky bar, so I basically was prosecuting patent applications and I'm a I have a science background, so I was able to take the patent bar and I was working my like my first year and a half out of law school doing, you know, applications for inventions and primarily in the areas of this is so boring but lighting fixtures, you know. Like on medicine bottles, you know like when you do a medicine bottle, like there's like those little ridges, like though a lot of businesses and companies will protect kind of that functionality for like helping, you know, older people will be able to open a bottle or a medicine bottle, but preventing kids from being able to do it, like there's all these, you know, believe it or not, there's like a lot of like kind of you know engineering that goes into that. It's very bizarre and I also worked on. This is such a this is such a Kentucky thing, but it's not as prevalent anymore. But I also worked on cigarette filters and ways to roll cigarettes and at that point I was doing a lot of work for a company called National Tobacco. They actually got bought around 2005. I want to say about RJ Reynolds but this was so long ago that in the building that I first worked for Aaron, or the firm that I first worked for the building that it was in, allowed smoking. 0:10:36 - Erin And I have a good friend who worked for RJ Reynolds and Winston Salem and they literally, like only a couple years ago, stopped smoking in the office, legit Like very recently in fact isn't it crazy, it's wild, yeah. 0:10:53 - Suzi And it's so funny because I remember in about it was like 2005 or so I went to California. I was visiting some girlfriends in San Francisco and I remember going into a restaurant and they asked me, you know or we were getting ready to get our seeing. I was like a non smoking section, please, and they looked at me like I was crazy and if I have, my girlfriends are like, oh, she's from Kentucky, and I'm like, yeah, everything like is at least five to two years behind there. I mean it's different now, like everything's more to leave like an even playing field, I feel like with internet and something, yeah, you know we moved slower. Yeah, tobacco had been traditionally a big part of you know, the economy here and so, yeah, so that's kind of a roundabout way of like you know, saying, yeah, I did that kind of work. And I look back, you know I'm like it feels a little icky, you know to have been working on something like that. But you know I had law school loans and you know I had to pay the bills at that point I wouldn't even, like you know, was it. 0:11:50 - Erin Well, when push comes to shove, you're learning your trade right. Like you have to learn how to do the, you have to learn how to practice your kind of law and, you know, maybe that wasn't sexy or like super appealing or like sounds really awesome, but you know like just because it's not sexy doesn't mean that you didn't learn something. 0:12:09 - Suzi Well, yeah, and I think he made a really a point that you know, as a young associate, you don't necessarily like we can talk a good game now as older lawyers like well, I would say no to that and I would set a boundary here. But when you're a young associate, you know, you know you take the work that comes, comes through and it's. It is more difficult to to turn that down, especially like when you're, like you said, like when you're learning. You're just really trying to learn your craft. 0:12:34 - Erin So so how did you transition? How did you transition from that work? Were you in, did you work big law, or did you go straight into your little private, your little? That is like that is not the word I meant to use. I'm not using boutique because, like, we're not trying to demean the word, but anyway, when did you go straight from like that type of law into your own law firm, or what was the segue in between that time period? 0:12:59 - Suzi Yeah, so there was a major segue. So I worked at that firm straight out of law school I want to stay for about a year and a half and it was not a fit for several reasons. And I, in the area of law, like I didn't love patent law, I was like, oh my gosh, I could not imagine it being a patent attorney my entire life. And I kind of knew I wasn't up to snuff for litigation because I'm not. I'm very introverted and I was like I just cannot be a litigant. He's something that turns actual. So I interviewed and got a job with a larger firm, because the first one was more of a boutique firm and the second, the firm that I moved to after that after having practiced for about a year and a half, was a big firm, sort of by, I would say, by Louisville standards it might have been the the biggest firm around and it was a regional firm. It's been purchased by Denton, so that kind of tells you at this point like kind of you know, maybe there were 300, 400 attorneys over maybe eight offices, so a large regional firm. At that point I don't know if it would be considered a big law. Now it would be. I moved to that firm because, primarily, I wanted to do trademark work in the firm that I worked for before was like no, we hired you to do patent law. We pay you more to do patent law. And I was like, well, I don't really want to do that, I want to do right Like you. You kind of have to follow, I think, your gut also, and so I transitioned to the other firm. It was a much better fit. So I was there for about seven years and that's where I really learned trademark law. Like I've learned not how to have a law practice, but I learned how to prosecute trademarks right. Like I learned all the ins and outs really where I kind of just cut my teeth with respect to trademark law. So I was there for seven years before I started my own practice. 0:14:51 - Erin What led you to make that decision? Oh? 0:14:56 - Suzi the thing that really there were a couple of things that really just were impactful, and it's funny because I noticed that more looking back than when I was in it. The first one was I will never forget I was, my office, was like on the 35th floor. I remember one day looking out the window and seeing all of these people coming out of my building and the Humana building, which was it's a large insurance company, and there were just like hundreds and hundreds of people, and it was like five o'clock and I was in my office, was like well, I'm not going to be out of here for a few more hours, you know that's what? that's one thing, but I just were thinking I just don't want to be a member of the herd, like I want to. I want to pave my own path. I want to not be the mercy of what someone else says, right, like, and it's like. Oh, here I am in my office, I'm going to be here longer. You know, I can't even be with the herd because I can't even leave with the herd. Right, what is this? So you know, I was working crazy hours. I made, I made great money. You know, working in a law firm like that, I wasn't really able to. I was able to work remotely a little bit at that point. This was like in 2008, 2009. And that was the other thing that really triggered it. Yeah, yeah, in 2008, I saw a lot of my colleagues being just let go and I honestly, erin, I remember freaking out every day Like I was so nervous. 0:16:28 - Erin Were you like me, did you read above the law every single day and then spiral into a panic? 0:16:34 - Suzi Yes, I was like refresh like I'm like who's next, we're next. 0:16:38 - Erin I'm on the chopping block like literally above the law every single day and then spiral into a panic about when my job was going to be eliminated. 0:16:45 - Suzi Yeah, yeah, yeah it's like let them, let's go. Yeah, no, 100 dirt attorneys in their whatever practice you know, and so the things. So at that point, again, my firm wasn't, it was a large regional firm, it wasn't a national firm, but everything was trickling down right. So again there's that six months delay. But I, there were still lawyers that were like go, and their partners that were like that were like it was very scary and weird. You know, I look back and I was like well, I was fortunate, I was not like go, but it did force me or I guess kind of not not actually forced me, but it helped me realize that, like you know, there's no loyalty in a law firm, right? Sorry, but you know if you are not, we might love you, you know. But if you're not, you know, when it comes down to numbers, it can be, it can be objective, but it can also be very political at the same time. But I was, like, you know, there's, there's no loyalty here, and I also was like I don't, that corner space doesn't mean anything to me, Like I haven't, I don't care. I was scared because I didn't want to lose my job, right, I didn't want to get, I didn't want to get let go. But, you know, at the same time, it did help me really think about what. What does work mean? What is working for a big law firm mean? What does my future look like in a big law firm? My calculus at that point was very different, because I didn't have children. I wasn't, you know, I had friends that were having kids and kids that were going to private schools, and that was, you know, like you, what's that called? Like the golden handcuffs? I don't know about that. Like, I don't know if this is something I'm ready to sign up for. You know, also very free spirited kind of, and my parents own their own business. Business is forever. I'd never know them to work for anyone. And so in 2010, I put in my notice and I was like I am going to, I should run, I should run my laptop as my as a prop have laptop will practice right, and they were like you're crazy, like you know, you're leaving six figures, all this stuff. I was like, well, first of all, I'm solo, like I don't. You know, I'm not trying to keep anyone alive by myself except myself, so I didn't have that factored in. I was also doing it and I was doing you know, trademark law and so it's federal based. I can take my clients from everywhere. That was the other cool thing. And I knew I could work remotely and start a practice without a very, very low budget, right, Very scrappy and, at this point, like that kind of startup world in California was big and I was like you know, I'm going to start to scrappy law practice and let's, let's see what happens. And that's what I did. I also, you know, I also knew that I could charge clients a lot less and make just as much more money really, at the end of the day, without the headache oh, there's definitely still headache, trust me, but you know the law firm headache. But you know what was. What was interesting, erin, about 2008 to 2010,. You know, I saw my law practice getting rid of all like of the. They were cutting back. Right, they were trimming the fat, they were they didn't have like open snacks, right, like you could just go get a coke in the refrigerator. Like it's like these little things, like clients are paying for these things, right, Like this, they're all paying for this, like they don't need to be paying for. I mean, I know it's all kind of a the funds, the funds are all kind of commingle, like it doesn't matter, but like, at the end of the day, like while your, your clients, are paying for a certain level of service, level of service and kind of like lifestyle for the, the, the attorneys that work for especially at the dollar in which they are charging them per hour. 0:20:37 - Erin I would say that the expectation is like don't nickel and dime me right, like that kind of expectation, like if I want to diet coke, like I shouldn't have to bring that with me, you know, like that kind of mentality. 0:20:50 - Suzi Yeah, yeah, exactly. And you know, I thought about like how the firm did pretty extravagant client, you know, entertainment, and I was like, hey, you know not, not everyone gets to play when we, when we do this, but you know what, you know, they're getting charged the same hour, I don't know. There are just a lot of things that I was like you know I'm going to, I'm going to do this, I'm going to go solo and I did it. I like I said I have my laptop and I and I had Cleo. Cleo had just kind of was on the scene in terms of, like remote docketing and it really helped me kind of facilitate that and I would. So, you know, I kind of look at myself as an early adopter of of tech when it comes to running a law practice. I remember, you know, looking back here, and that my firm at that point still use like they didn't use a web based docketing. It was just weird because I remember if I had to work remotely like I would have to, like, you know, email my assistant. You know, make sure this gets docked, you know all it was just arcane or arcane Right. And when you're solo, you know, you know you kind of know this from owning your own business it's so much easier to pivot right. You just say, okay, erin, I think I need a policy change, and, boo, you do your policy change. You don't like it? Yeah, we're going to go back to the other thing that I was doing in a big law firm or, you know, even in a medium size firm, you know, things just don't move as quickly. So many layers of you know approvals that have to be had, just red tape, all of that good stuff, and I was just kind of like no, this is not my style. 0:22:34 - Erin So talk to me about the mindset, because that sounds great in practice, like, okay, I'm gonna walk in, I'm gonna start my own firm, I'm gonna hang my shingle, I'm gonna figure this out, I'm super smart, or whatever right Like, and we all. That's great and sunny. But talk to me about the reality and the mindset that it's taken to really grow and build this practice. And also, just as like a little side note, I heard you mentioned that your parents are entrepreneurs. So I'm just curious if, like, that mindset really growing up really played forward in this process for you as you were in this entrepreneur space and having to adapt and pivot and learn to embrace imperfection and all that kind of stuff. I'd love for you to take us through a little bit of that mindset. 0:23:20 - Suzi Erin, that's a great question. I think the most important mindset to be able to kind of embrace when you're doing this and it's something that lawyers are not good at, but I've always considered myself an entrepreneur, or I don't wanna say always, for a long time, I've considered myself an entrepreneur who just happens to be a lawyer but I think the mindset that's really important is the willingness to kind of feel, to kind of walk through failure, to experience failure. Right, lawyers have not been. There's not a safe space for lawyers to fail in, especially when they're learning to practice law. Right, like you know, you miss a period in a letter you write you're gonna get a knock on your door from a partner. Right, they're gonna. You know how that is right. It's right here yeah, it's right here, yeah, so you know, and that's just kind of a minor example so, like you are just always like just feeling very, having to feel very on, there's that craving towards perfection tendencies which, at the end of the day, is, I think, kind of somehow tied to a fear of failure, right. So, and I'm not exactly sure how all that plays together, but I do think that one of the most important things you know, if you do think you wanna go down the road of starting your own practice or your own business or whatever, is that you're gonna have to be willing to take some risks and embrace failure in a way that doesn't completely crush you, and that you take it and you're like I'm gonna learn from this, right. Like, if you have a failure and you're gonna have a failure, when you start something it just happens, right. If you start something and it just works smoothly, then that's great, but it's gonna be very unlikable. 0:25:09 - Erin Well, that's in a utopia that we don't live in. So if somebody finds that place they can send me a ticket to that later. But the real world, you know. 0:25:18 - Suzi The real world does not work that way, right, but yeah, so the kind of that willingness to feel failure and to take some risks. You can't necessarily be risk-inverse, and I think it was Elon Musk who did say something like if we're not failing in some respect, like we're not innovating, right, so you have to be ready to feel failure and it sucks, it doesn't feel good, but in terms of mindset, erin, I think the best thing that you can do the first time you screw something up at, kind of as a solo or whatever, or when you're just trying something new, is to say how can I learn from this? Right, this was a learning experience and just kind of an example of that. You know, I look back, like because you know I started my community legally blissed and, as we talked about before the show, I put my community on hold over the summer just to kind of hit the reset button, figure out what direction I want to go in, and you know a lot of me is like, oh my gosh, I've invested so much time but I have to. You know, if I ultimately closed down the community, I could say, well, maybe I just failed. You know I'm a failure, but I look back and I was like you know what? I've made some awesome relationships right. I've made some really cool connections like you, danielle Bass, dana Cattaldo, like there's so many women that I'm just like, oh my gosh, I just made it's all you know. I could sit here and cry about it or whatever, or I could just look back and say these are the things that I'll learn. Like I learned how to have a community, I learned how to do all of these different things. And you have to be like kind of willing to do that and have that mindset, you know, if you desire to make that transition out of practicing law into having your own practice or having some other type of business, which so many of us seem to do, yes, and truly, really with anything. 0:27:22 - Erin I think if you're craving a change in your life, whether that's professionally or personally, there is going to be uncomfortable associated with that, because what you are not changing you're choosing, and if you desire to change, things are going to. You can't keep doing what you're doing Right. So, like we have to, and I call it failing forward because it's like, okay, like, but you're still moving, even though you fell down and you skinned your knee. Like you still get up and keep walking and say like, okay, well, like that didn't work, but what did work and what can I do better? And, I think, agreed. That has been the biggest lesson for me as an entrepreneur who also happens to be a lawyer, who has many of those same mindset challenges that we encounter, just based on our years of training and practice and everything that's been seared into her soul for a time. You know it's a lot to unwind, but that is my biggest advice to attorneys that I coach or who you know come to me and say, like, I think I want to change and maybe I want to walk out on my own. It's really just learning to embrace that it's not going to be perfect, that you're going to need to ask a lot of questions. You're not going to know all the answers, you're going to fail and mess up and it's done. But it's going to be okay. It's okay, it's never. The only time it's not okay is if you just quit. 0:28:50 - Suzi Right, right, or you don't take those mistakes as a learning opportunity. So, you know, I've asked myself does failure like if you can take what happened as sort of a learning opportunity? Does failure even exist? Right, agreed, it's so effective so you could take sort of and again I'm hesitant to even say the word right the challenge. Yeah, you can take the challenge and you know, it's really really kind of about that subjective mindset and whether or not you can turn it into a learning opportunity and look back at you know, yeah, maybe I did go the wrong way, like, maybe I did pick the wrong direction. Maybe I shouldn't have made that hire. You know it's a big one. Maybe I should have hired earlier. Maybe I should not hire, you know, maybe I should. Whatever, you know, there's always like these ancillary byproducts, like as you're moving towards your goals. So really the only way you're really screwing up is by not sort of taking the risk to some extent, because it's all, everything's a risk. Right, get out of bed in the morning is a little risky, I know. 0:30:00 - Erin I read a mail Robin with the other day and she said it's like I don't understand why people are so scared of failure, because living your life and not achieving your dreams is so much more painful, like it hurts so much more to live in regret than to just move forward in failure, you know, like when you think about the push and pull of it that way. But I know you mentioned your legally bliss community and I would love for you to chat about that for a minute because I think you know the season that you are in right now is very relatable to a lot of us. You know, life ebbs and flows, seasons get busy and you're feeling like things are a priority, that maybe we're not once a priority and there's a lot of right. Like we go through this guilt and like, oh my gosh, I've done this thing and now what if I don't do it? Or what if I take a break? Or what is that gonna look like? All of these unknowns. But I think it's really important for our listeners to hear that it is okay to pivot and that it is okay to be in a particular season of your life where things make better sense, where you have different priorities and values, and knowing and giving yourself grace that everything is temporary it may not always be like that, you may not always feel like that and just being okay and giving yourself grace that it's okay and that you don't need to should on yourself. I think if we look out in the world, in society and on social media, it's like you should be freaking, killing it every single day of your life. If you're not hitting a home run, then you are screwing it up. If your business isn't making seven figures, what the hell are you doing? You know, all this stuff is just the shitting on us and it's it's very unhealthy and it just also compounds all the mental baggage that we have to deal with too. So that's a long way of and that's really like a long winded question, but I would love for you to just talk about a little bit of this transition in your legally bliss community, because I think it's really powerful. 0:32:05 - Suzi Yeah, I think that we do have to stop shitting all over ourselves. Right, we are constantly doing that. I probably I wonder how many times I've already said that, right, in this conversation. I've probably said that like I should have done this, I should have done that, you know, and I think that it takes a bit of mindfulness for you to just start recognizing that and when you notice yourself saying should I should do that or I shouldn't have done that, to laugh and think and think about mind and air and conversation and us saying I'm shitting all over myself. Stop, stop right, like that'll help you. I think help that kind of come to mind. But with respect to the community which I started in about 2020, it was kind of like born out of just my own practice as a female lawyer, my own experiences and how I felt like there needed to be community for women who are kind of along the same journey. Now, I don't want to under how do I say this? Like men have challenges too in our legal practice and that is one of the things I've learned more than any. Like I leave my oh, my gosh. Like legally blissed is a very feminine sounding name for the community, and all of my branding was kind of geared towards women, but there's a lot of men who need support too, so if don't forget about them. 0:33:27 - Erin I agree, I've had lots of men drop into my DMs, dads, you know, who also want to practice, all differently, who are feeling the stresses in a different way. So, yes, like the dudes are struggling too, so we're going to give them space, you know they need that and they may be experiencing it in a lot of ways, I don't know. 0:33:49 - Suzi I mean, I was going to say to some extent, even more than we are, you know, because men create, men crave balance, like men crave time worth their children. And you know, so it's, yeah, it's, it goes both ways. We both, we both have our. 0:34:06 - Erin It's a different set of challenges. I've said that different times on different podcasts. I really truly think you know all, women and men aside, all of the, you know the noise, white noise we all have our unique set of challenges that affect us in unique ways, and I think that that they don't need to be, you know, swept under the rug, in other words. 0:34:25 - Suzi So, but to your point, 100% 100% and they've been men, have been some of my biggest cheerleaders. So, yeah, shout out to the dudes in the house we love you guys. Legally, blist was sort of a safe space for women and I kind of started it as a podcast and then the women who were on the podcast were invited into the community. And you know, it's interesting because I really kind of geared legally Blist. I wanted to gear it towards women who were five years out of law school, right, because I look back, my that was the word Law school and a few years out of law school for me were like my most challenge. It just took me a few years to really kind of get into the groove of what I was doing. I was probably like a mid-level associate before I really started having some confidence right. But it was interesting because when I built the community and I saw my initial invitations, it was very top heavy. They're you know and I don't you know what I'm saying Like it was women primarily who were at the top of their game. They've been there, they've done that, they are coaches or consultants. Maybe they're not practicing law anymore. So there was a little bit of this disparity with respect to kind of where I originally wanted the community to go to go and where it was. And I kind of woke up one day and I was like, oh my gosh, this is where we are and it was a little bit of a mistake. There was a little bit of a mistake in kind of the way that I set it up and I should have, I should have right, like here I am saying I should have done. I look back, I know there are certain things I should have done. I should have air quotes here, if you're just listening. I should have done market research more. So I could really like get into that language of the. You know that women were using like kind of that group that were right at a law school. And what's so funny about this, aaron? It's kind of goes back to the beginning of our conversation. I forgot that I wasn't 25, right, like these women could be my child. Yes, oh my gosh, like I am 20 years older than these people. I don't feel like it. I might look like it, but I don't necessarily feel like it. I mentally don't necessarily feel that distance, but it's a different generation and I was like you know what? I need to know their language and all of this stuff. So that's really part of this. Past late spring I was like you know what I need to put? I need to hit the reset button. I need to put a pause on the community. I hit a major burnout wall. I mean, honey, I woke up one day because I was. I stopped my law practice, of course, and I had the community. I just woke up one day I was like I'm exhausted and my partner was hunting and fishing and skiing and I was like going to work and I was like why am I doing all this? Like why am I not playing? And I try to preach this, right, it's so funny how we, like we preach certain things about recreation and avoiding burnout and setting boundaries and you know, we're not always great stewards of like what we're preaching and sometimes we don't realize that until things kind of start I don't want to say falling apart, because things weren't necessarily falling apart. 0:37:47 - Erin I'm bubbling to the surface right. Things are bubbling to the surface that you can't ignore anymore Feelings that push and that pull that internal, like not feeling aligned. I mean we know what it feels like to not feel aligned. 0:38:01 - Suzi You know it's that internal like it, yes, and you know I feel like, if you're listening to this podcast and you're hanging out with Erin, you're one of those people that you're thinking you're questioning alignment. Right, you're questioning your values of what you're doing aligns with your values, because that's obviously kind of, I think, what we're going for when it comes to alignment right, like what and you mentioned this a minute ago, erin, about values I think that's so important to really consistently check in with that, because you know, our values do evolve over time. Right, we have babies, we have growing parents. Right, we decide we don't want to do a certain job. Right, the economy changes, we lose a partner, we gain a partner, right. So, like, all of our lives are always constantly in flux, and so it is important, I think, to kind of really just check in with your values and make sure that your those decisions that you're making on a daily basis really do align with it, because you will start meeting that burnout, right, you'll not be able to necessarily have that justification to keep pushing. And, yeah, I kind of felt like I got really close. I don't know if I really officially hit burnout, but I got pretty close. So I think I kind of hopped onto it before it actually happened and that's when I decided back in this late spring that I was going to put the community on hold over the summer, because, you know, vacation it's the summer. Well, it's the summer. I've got like a niece and two nephews. I was like you know what auntie needs to be available at a moment's notice for these kiddos, and yeah, so that's that's what we ended up doing. I just put the community on hold over the summer. And I was saying earlier, you know, I got hit with the old COVID and was knocked out for several weeks and I don't know when this is going to play, but here we are already. You know the autumn of 2023. So you know, tom flies when you're having a blast, I know. 0:40:02 - Erin Well, so what do you feel like? How do you feel about making that decision and what are some things that you have been doing to pour back into yourself, to really feel like you can get like realigned right? Like what are some self-care things that you have been doing for Susie that have really helped you kind of maybe avoid hitting that actual burnout wall and how now are you feeling that you, like, have put the community on hold? 0:40:29 - Suzi I feel really good. I know that I'm either right decision. I now, like I'm kind of figuring out, like how do I want to transition the assets of my community I shouldn't say my community, it's the community but they are assets that I created, including the content, the brand name, all of these things, the podcast I'm thinking I'll probably continue the podcast at some point to some extent because it's fun. I get to talk with people like you and just incredible female lawyers and a few men because, like I said, we need to let them share their stories as well. In terms of self care, so this summer I was really really good about only working a few hours a day, like really good. I was like four hours in front of a computer per day max. And that's the thing I want people to really think about this, like how this 40 hour week work week is. It's kind of BS. It is like manmade with technology and technology now you can probably get what you need to get done in a fraction of the time. And I just remember having this experience of looking back when I was in a law firm like oh, it's been a couple hours a day. Someone's just coming into my office, you know, wanting to talk, and now they'd be better about setting boundaries, right, but it was. I remember just looking back like, oh my gosh, you know, because I was friendly to people and they would come in and give up, but it's a waste of time, like you're at the office for 10 hours, but again you only needed to be there, like literally four, three, like that's how much work you had to do. 0:42:11 - Erin You know? So it's, you're right, Like technology is able to shorten that, and so that's a great boundary to set. 0:42:18 - Suzi So don't think that you have to work eight hours a day if you can get what you need to get done in, you know, in four hours. Technology really helps us do that and you know you can. If you tell yourself, if you kind of time block me, say I'm going to get this, I don't know, I'm going to write this, I'm going to draft this complaint, it's going to take me two hours. Or if you say it's going to take me four hours, it'll take you four hours to do it. But if you say you know what, the sun shining, I'm going to get this done in two hours, I could just about guarantee you'll get it done in two hours. It's this little thing called Parkinson's law. It's you you will complete something in the time that you allot yourself. So I've really kind of been a advocate for just I've really leaned into Parkinson's law when it comes to to my work and putting putting fairly kind of strict boundaries on the number of hours that I work every week. The other thing too, erin, I only have a couple of days a week that I put my face on Same. You know what I mean it get kind of dressed up for things Like I kind of time block my appointments, like day like I will have days that are my call, like the days I do my calls right. So I'm kind of that's another thing I think is really kind of good in terms of time management. That I've learned is what's it called Like block? You're like chunk your time right, like or do similar tasks at once. If you're a trademark lawyer, for example hello to my fellow trademark lawyers out there work on your section 815 affidavit reminders every Monday for the next month You're probably like, what is she even talking about? If you're a trademark lawyer, know what I'm talking about. My point is, if you're working on something, if you can kind of work on that same task kind of across your, maybe your clients, it's just anytime you're having to switch to a different type of task, you lose. You lose some efficiencies, right. You there's that transition period into into doing something else. You know how, like if you get distracted by social media, you know, pick one. It's that much harder to get back into your the groove of doing your work. The other thing I use, aaron, is something called. It's called llama, ll a M a life and it's like a Pomodoro timer, and I'm pretty rigid with that and I focus really hardcore for 25 minutes on stuff and I take a five minute break and get back to it. So there's a lot of different types of platforms like that that help you focus. It's a. It's really good for people who kind of have a harder time focusing or might might, might, be wanting to go to check Twitter or X or whatever it is now. But yeah, so those are kind of some, some suggestions and you know, kind of going back to what we talked about the very beginning of the conversation, just getting outside this summer has been really, really helpful. We've got to get, we got to get away from the computers, like, and here we are right. But you know, you got to, you got to do things. But I think that it's so important for us to get more time in nature. It's so, it's so healthy for us physically and mentally and, like you, like you mentioned, it sparks creativity and even if you think like, oh my gosh, I need to be in my office, you know pounding away on some type of work for a client, you know, maybe you need to go for a 25 minute walk, yeah, and you could be just as like quote unquote productive, because it's it can just really clear ahead. And you know, I don't know if anyone's going to take that advice, but I really, really hope they do. 0:45:56 - Erin I really hope they do too, because we need to use all five of our senses. That's a great point. You know I've started and it's it's little stuff that you can do for yourself. Go take a client. If you're working from home that day, put in your earbuds and go sit on your porch and take that client call with your notebook right, like take your laptop and just go sit outside on your back porch. Or, like you said, go take a walk, take off your shoes, put your feet in the grass, like smell the air and the leaves and the trees and the outside. Like we're not using all five of our senses every single day and we, our minds, are so busy as attorneys, we've got so many things going on that it's it's that break of the pattern that allows us to really tap into creativity. You'll get a great idea. I mean, you may be sitting out there with a client and just have something drop right in. That wouldn't have done. If you're just in that, the four corners of your office, your home, you know wherever you may be working. So I think those are outstanding suggestions and I will second you on multitasking doesn't work. So it does not. 0:47:02 - Suzi No, it is so overrated and I don't know who came up with this like a multitasking being a good thing thing. It's just it's yeah, you know some people pride themselves on that and I remember this, you know, 10, 15 years ago. I can multitask. I can carry my baby, I can talk with the fuck, I can cook dinner, and all this stuff is like no. Like when you're with your baby or your family, like focus on your baby, you know, when you're cooking dinner, like focus on cooking your dinner or listen to an audio book, if you, if you got to do two things, right and when you're at work, focus on your work and then, when you're done with it, leave it. Try not to cheat occasionally, but, you know, can you set some type of boundaries about checking your email after a certain amount of time in the evening? I've gotten to where it's slow. I remember looking back and saying I will not check my email past eight o'clock and now I'm like I balk at that. I was like I don't check my email after I leave the office unless, like there's something I'm really just impatient about or I kind of forget. But like after I leave the office, I turn really hard to really, really really disconnect from my work and at the end of the day, I think it makes me better when I sit down to do work, because I'm not I'm not muddling everything right. One other thing, erin, I think that's kind of been helpful for me is and I do want to mention this is you know, if you have a partner. I think it's challenging as a lawyer to have a partner who's not who's not a lawyer, but maybe, I don't know, it could be even more challenging if they are also a lawyer. 0:48:38 - Erin I don't know my husband's a lawyer and I was telling him last night that it was like it's been such a gift for him to be a lawyer because he, like he fundamentally understands what I'm trying to do and who I'm trying to impact. So it has been like amazing. But I can understand. We've also our communication skills leave a little bit challenged, so we'll say that it's like, or a little like, little to be desired or whatever the thing. 0:49:03 - Suzi Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I mean I guess it could, it could really go both ways. And one thing that I've really tried to focus on over the last some like this summer, is like spending time with my partner in the morning, right, Like when he has coffee in the morning, you know, getting up and kind of getting ready for a day, like just down and talk with him for half an hour. I think that that are you like, rather than getting up, running out the door and be like see what I see, Right, Like we just sit down and just like have that connection with the people that are important to you. It doesn't matter if it's your partner, your children or whatever you know, whatever, like just kind of connect with what is important to you. And maybe this maybe the lesson here is not doesn't have to be another person, Maybe it's just connecting for 30 minutes with you know meditation or reading the Bible or whatever your you know, whatever it is that that kind of grounds you and connects you. Maybe it's, maybe it's going for a morning walk, right. So it could be all different things, but I think having that in the morning is really important. It really like kind of sets the foundation for your day and I look, I look back over all all of these, all of these years, and those mornings are really special, versus popping out of bed, you know, throwing my makeup and clothes on and rushing out the door, and it's just really nice to get up and try to connect. If you are, if you have your own practice, you can do that, and if you're working with a firm, you might be a little more. What's the word like? Kind of restricted in, like like you might have to be there at a certain point or a certain time in the morning. 0:50:40 - Erin My advice would be to wake up a little earlier, you know, go to bed a little earlier, for sure, and I think what I take from you and all of that is just the intentionality is is what we need to do. It's deciding what makes us feel good and then being intentional about taking the time to make that happen and then filling your cup that way, like I think that is such great advice. Okay, well, before we sign off because this has been an amazing conversation, I just really think it's been so great for people to be able to just hear a little bit about your journey and and just to know that it's okay, like in the midst of this pivot, like you're still showing up for yourself and winning the day, and that's what I want people to understand. It's just, even when things feel like you're in this weird transition period, you can still be winning and moving forward towards your goals If you're intentional. Okay, about your time, your thoughts, your energy and what you're doing with it. But thank you so much for sharing and being vulnerable and talking to us about the community and that transition and all that kind of stuff. But let's do something fun before I let you go. My new fun segment called Legally Blonde and I was telling you a little bit about this before we started and I am obsessed with just starting to laugh, like I just think there is so much freaking seriousness and like noise in the world and the universe and we're just like everyone is so freaking serious and offended and like everything I'm just like, but can we not just laugh? Can we not just I'm offended by laughter. God can we just not take ourselves so seriously and I especially think that high achieving women have a really hard time just not taking ourselves so seriously because it's like, oh my gosh, now I'm embarrassed that like I didn't like walk the straight line, so we're gonna be Legally Blonde, and I've told all kinds of funny stories and I asked my guests to do the same. So I would love if you would share a fun Legally Blonde amendment with our listeners. 0:52:38 - Suzi I'm sure I have many, but this one's kind of on the top of my mind because for some reason I was thinking about it. The other day I was this was back when I'd walked to work and I lived in Louisville and I lived downtown and worked downtown and you know, I remember this I would wear my stilettos like every day. And I remember this lady attorney was like why don't you wear tennis shoes and change into your stilettos when you get into the office? I'm like no, like I'd rather wear my stilettos on the street and then get like anyway, it was kind of besides a point, but anyway, I was a big fan of having my you know, sarah Jessica Parker's Parker stilettos. This was important to me. So I remember one day I was walking on the street. So again, this was like 20 years ago. So you know, I was walking and this guy kind of pulls up in this car next to me and he's like, hey, you know, I could tell he was kind of like checking me out and I was feeling pretty good. And I looked over and kind of like it was like hey, you know, and I started walking and I kind of fell like I tripped on the sidewalk. I was absolutely mortified. I was so embarrassed. He started laughing and like just jets off. And I was like well, he was a loser anyway, right. So totally stupid story. But it kind of reminded me of like just doing something completely stupid. 0:53:58 - Erin Well, I mean, here's the thing Like, those heels were very important in my young lawyer days too, like that is, and that is what I spent money on because you had to find comfortable ones, cause you were up in those things. And second, you wanted them to look freaking hot and good and so. But then there's little cracks in the sidewalk where you get that little tiny heel stuck. And, believe me, I have got actual footage of me like walking out what is the nest cam or whatever on your front door. Like I may have to share that with our listeners one day, I'd be, like just chit chatting and falling flat out down like there was an attack and the Amazon man just kept walking Like I mean it was more resistant. 0:54:39 - Suzi So don't worry, You're in good company. 0:54:41 - Erin Awesome, you're in good company. Okay, susanie, well, before I let you, let you go officially. Where can people find you? If they need help with their, their trademarks, if they just want to be a part of your circle and just say hello, reach out with any feedback from the podcast, how can people find you? 0:54:58 - Suzi Yeah, you can find me on LinkedIn X or my website, and they're all suziehixoncom and my name is right S-U-Z-I-H-I-X-O-N. Awesome, Reach out anytime. 0:55:12 - Erin Love it, susanie Thank you for having me. Yes, oh my gosh, you're such a joy. I just simply adore you. I wish we lived closer so we could like literally hang out and do this in person, but I hear cheering for you, supporting you, and thank you so much for coming on the show today. It's been so much fun. 0:55:28 - Suzi It was so good to see you and hang out here and thank you so much. Thank you, cheers. 0:55:34 - Erin Thank you so much for listening into the Powerhouse Lawyers podcast. Don't forget to follow us on Spotify, apple or wherever you catch your podcast. If you loved this episode, I would be so honored if you left a review and, because I know you are the type of woman who wants to see other women win, be sure to share this episode with someone who needs it. By sharing it, you are empowering a fellow sister in the law to know that she is not alone, that there is nothing wrong with her and that she can build a life and career that she loves. Thank you, see you next week.