Latest / Crime Night / The Fire, the Fake Tears, and the Brothel Under the Roof: How a Daughter-in-Law Murdered Her Elderly Mother-in-Law for Profit
Transcript
- 0:00Speaker 1: Imagine the scene, a small, really quiet village in Sohag.
- 0:04Speaker 2: Egypt, deep respectability tradition.
- 0:06Speaker 1: Exactly. It's late evening, that kind of deep, dry quiet
- 0:10Speaker 1: you get in the desert almost feels safe.
- 0:12Speaker 2: You know, secure, like nothing bad could happen there.
- 0:15Speaker 1: And then suddenly, just complete chaos, a huge crash like
- 0:18Speaker 1: an explosion, glass shattering everywhere.
- 0:21Speaker 2: And that smell hits you almost immediately, heavy smoke but
- 0:25Speaker 2: also fuel, unmistakable.
- 0:27Speaker 1: People just pour out of their houses, running towards this
- 0:30Speaker 1: one two story home belongs to hajasiaa eighty five years old,
- 0:35Speaker 1: deeply respected.
- 0:36Speaker 2: And the upper floor her floor, her sanctuary for decades.
- 0:40Speaker 2: It's just engulfed in flames, raging.
- 0:42Speaker 1: But down in the street, amidst all the panic, there's
- 0:44Speaker 1: a mall Soay's daughter in law.
- 0:46Speaker 2: She's fifty, and she's putting on an absolute masterclass in
- 0:49Speaker 2: shock and grief, just devastatingly convincing.
- 0:52Speaker 1: Her story, simple tragic. Poor Soireya must have left the
- 0:56Speaker 1: stove on an accident.
- 0:57Speaker 2: Everyone buys it. Why wouldn't they a heartbreaking accent.
- 1:00Speaker 1: But what we're diving into today is the truth behind
- 1:03Speaker 1: that performance, because this wasn't an accident. It was the
- 1:06Speaker 1: climax really of five years of calculated greed, betrayal.
- 1:10Speaker 2: And murder. It's a story about how one woman took
- 1:13Speaker 2: a home built on integrity and twisted it into something truly.
- 1:19Speaker 1: Sinister, and how she systematically destroyed a family, primarily by
- 1:22Speaker 1: manipulating the victim's own son, the man who called her wife.
- 1:25Speaker 2: Yeah, the physical crime, the fire, the strangulation, that's almost
- 1:28Speaker 2: the epilogue, right, the real violence here, The core of
- 1:31Speaker 2: it was psychological. You absolutely have to understand how Amal
- 1:36Speaker 2: dismantled the family's trust. First.
- 1:37Speaker 1: All right, let's go back then, five years before the fire,
- 1:40Speaker 1: twenty thirteen. Tell us about the family before them. All.
- 1:43Speaker 2: Well, you have Haja Soirea around eighty at this point,
- 1:46Speaker 2: like you said, beloved religious woman. Her husband died back
- 1:49Speaker 2: in two thousand.
- 1:49Speaker 1: And three, and her son's Saber.
- 1:51Speaker 2: Saber was forty seven, very devoted son apparently dedicated his
- 1:54Speaker 2: life to caring for her. He hadn't married, partly because
- 1:57Speaker 2: he couldn't have children, and his focus was Sorea. Any
- 1:59Speaker 2: other two other sons, but they were working abroad, so
- 2:03Speaker 2: Saber was the one there, the primary caregiver day to day.
- 2:05Speaker 1: Okay, So that devotion, that responsibility, Saber felt that becomes
- 2:09Speaker 1: the weak spot.
- 2:10Speaker 2: Precisely in twenty thirteen, Saber gets this business opportunity in Cairo,
- 2:15Speaker 2: good chance for him financially, but he can't leave.
- 2:17Speaker 1: His mother alone. She's elderly, exactly.
- 2:20Speaker 2: He needs someone reliable and critically, he needs a wife
- 2:24Speaker 2: who understands his situation, you know, specifically that there won't
- 2:28Speaker 2: be children.
- 2:29Speaker 1: And that's where Amal comes in.
- 2:30Speaker 2: And to Ramal, she's forty five, divorced, no children of
- 2:34Speaker 2: her own. On paper, she seems like the perfect solution, and.
- 2:38Speaker 1: She agrees immediately, instantly.
- 2:40Speaker 2: Promises Saber she'll take wonderful care of Sorea. And you
- 2:43Speaker 2: see right there, she's not just offering marriage. She's offering
- 2:46Speaker 2: Saber relief, relief from his guilt, his worry. She solved
- 2:50Speaker 2: his biggest problem. That's potent, incredibly, But Sorea she felt
- 2:56Speaker 2: something was off right from the start, like an instinct. Yeah,
- 3:00Speaker 2: this unsettling feeling, but she couldn't quite put her finger
- 3:03Speaker 2: on why, so she kept quiet. She wanted her son
- 3:06Speaker 2: to be happy, didn't want to rock the boat, potentially
- 3:09Speaker 2: ruin his marriage before it even started. A fateful decision really, so.
- 3:13Speaker 1: What was the living arrangement.
- 3:15Speaker 2: Amal moved into the ground floor. It's quite spacious, four rooms,
- 3:19Speaker 2: big hall, its own entrance. Sorea stayed upstairs in her
- 3:22Speaker 2: familiar space, and Saber he was only there for about
- 3:26Speaker 2: ten days after the wedding before he had to leave
- 3:28Speaker 2: for Cairo for his work.
- 3:29Speaker 1: Ten days wow. And Amal starts her strategy immediately.
- 3:34Speaker 2: Pretty much on the surface, she treated Soreya well enough, correctly,
- 3:38Speaker 2: you might say, but it was very controlled. How So
- 3:42Speaker 2: she set specific, very limited times for them to interact.
- 3:46Speaker 2: Outside of those times, Sorea was essentially cut off. It
- 3:49Speaker 2: immediately established this hierarchy, the sense of.
- 3:51Speaker 1: Dependency, making Soreya feel like a guest or even a
- 3:55Speaker 1: burden in her own home exactly.
- 3:57Speaker 2: And when Saber came back for short visits during that
- 3:59Speaker 2: first year, Soria actually lied to him.
- 4:02Speaker 1: She told him everything was fine.
- 4:04Speaker 2: She told him all was very good. She saw Saber
- 4:07Speaker 2: seemed happy, pleased with his marriage, and she didn't want
- 4:10Speaker 2: to cause conflict. She feared he might divorce am All
- 4:13Speaker 2: if she complained.
- 4:14Speaker 1: She was trying to protect his happiness.
- 4:16Speaker 2: At her own expense. And this plate right into Amal's hands.
- 4:20Speaker 2: What you need to grasp about Amal is what the
- 4:22Speaker 2: sources call her experience of a different kind, meaning she
- 4:26Speaker 2: knew how to manage men. How satisfied, Saber gained his
- 4:30Speaker 2: complete trust very quickly. It wasn't just about caring for Soria.
- 4:34Speaker 2: It was about making Saber feel like his life was
- 4:37Speaker 2: finally sordid. His wife was happy, his mother was cared for.
- 4:41Speaker 1: So he became emotionally reliant on a Mal's version of
- 4:44Speaker 1: reality completely.
- 4:46Speaker 2: She built this wall around him. He was essentially isolated
- 4:50Speaker 2: from his mother's true experience from day one, and.
- 4:52Speaker 1: With that foundation of control laid, things escalate rapidly.
- 4:56Speaker 2: Within about a year, a mall starts hosting these late
- 4:59Speaker 2: night gatherings neighbor women, initially how late, often going until
- 5:03Speaker 2: three am. She do a quick check on Soreya upstairs beforehand,
- 5:06Speaker 2: then basically ignore her for the rest of the night,
- 5:08Speaker 2: and Srea hears this, oh yeah, upstairs, she starts hearing
- 5:12Speaker 2: things that were just unthinkable in that house before. Loud laughter,
- 5:17Speaker 2: coarse joking, what's described as indecent talk.
- 5:21Speaker 1: This wasn't just normal socializing.
- 5:23Speaker 2: Clearly not. The tone shifted dramatically, this deeply religious respect
- 5:27Speaker 2: at home. The sounds coming from downstairs were changing its
- 5:31Speaker 2: character entirely.
- 5:32Speaker 1: Did Sorea say anything?
- 5:34Speaker 2: She did? She eventually confronted them, all pleaded with her,
- 5:37Speaker 2: you know, think of the house's reputation, the family standing in.
- 5:40Speaker 1: Amal's response ice cold.
- 5:41Speaker 2: Basically, it's my house too, now stay out of it.
- 5:44Speaker 2: Just shut her down completely.
- 5:45Speaker 1: Wow. No attempt to reassure her.
- 5:48Speaker 2: Anything, none. And then Amal does something even more insidious.
- 5:51Speaker 2: She realizes Soreya might talk to Saber.
- 5:53Speaker 1: Oh so she strikes.
- 5:55Speaker 2: First, preemptively. She calls Saber and Cairo feeds him this
- 5:59Speaker 2: story that his mother, who's now eighty three, is starting
- 6:01Speaker 2: to show signs of sinility. Oh no, yeah, claiming Soireya
- 6:05Speaker 2: is causing trouble, imagining things getting confused, weaponizing her age
- 6:09Speaker 2: against her.
- 6:10Speaker 1: That's brutal because it gives Saber an out.
- 6:12Speaker 2: Exactly. It's easier for him to believe his elderly mother
- 6:15Speaker 2: is confused than to believe his new wife is behaving badly.
- 6:19Speaker 2: It protects his idea of a happy marriage.
- 6:21Speaker 1: So what happened when Saber came back?
- 6:23Speaker 2: He delivered the most devastating blow. He went to his mother, Sorea,
- 6:28Speaker 2: and told her to avoid a mall to not annoy
- 6:31Speaker 2: his wife.
- 6:32Speaker 1: He cited completely with them all completely.
- 6:34Speaker 2: Sireya was crushed, utterly, heartbroken, and at that point she
- 6:38Speaker 2: just shut down. She decided silence was the only way
- 6:42Speaker 2: to protect Saber's marriage, believing she was now the problem.
- 6:45Speaker 1: Amal had won that round decisively totally.
- 6:48Speaker 2: Her position was secure, Saber's loyalty was locked down, and
- 6:51Speaker 2: now the shift towards outright crime becomes well almost logical for.
- 6:55Speaker 1: Her, from psychological control to running a business.
- 6:58Speaker 2: A criminal enterprise. She starts by narrowing down her circle
- 7:01Speaker 2: of friends, gets rid of most of them, settles on three.
- 7:03Speaker 1: Women, and these women were confirmed.
- 7:05Speaker 2: Later to be sex workers.
- 7:07Speaker 1: A mall.
- 7:07Speaker 2: Basically pitched them an idea which will use her house,
- 7:10Speaker 2: Soreya's house as a venue the ground floor, four rooms,
- 7:14Speaker 2: private entrance. It had this built in cover of respectability
- 7:17Speaker 2: because of Soria's reputation.
- 7:19Speaker 1: So the house's good name becomes the shield for a brothel.
- 7:22Speaker 2: Decisely, she offered them a safe, respected place to operate,
- 7:26Speaker 2: and naturally she'd take a cut of their earnings.
- 7:28Speaker 1: Unbelievable, and this obviously requires some startup capital, maybe to
- 7:33Speaker 1: furnish the place properly.
- 7:35Speaker 2: It seems so, and am All knew exactly where to
- 7:37Speaker 2: find it. She'd notice something upstairs in Soreya's room. What
- 7:41Speaker 2: was it about? Eight thousand Egyptian pounds in cash and
- 7:44Speaker 2: also significantly, Soreya's burial shrouds the kafan.
- 7:49Speaker 1: Money she'd save for her own funeral.
- 7:51Speaker 2: Yes, a very traditional, important preparation, showing dignity even in
- 7:56Speaker 2: planning for death.
- 7:57Speaker 1: But Amal didn't see tradition.
- 7:58Speaker 2: She saw capital. Eight pounds enough to upgrade the furnishings downstairs,
- 8:03Speaker 2: make the business look more professional.
- 8:04Speaker 1: So the money Soraya saved for her final dignity becomes
- 8:08Speaker 1: the investment fund for Amlie brothel.
- 8:10Speaker 2: That's the grim reality, and suddenly killing Sirea isn't just
- 8:13Speaker 2: about silencing her anymore. It's about accessing that cash. It
- 8:17Speaker 2: becomes a business decision.
- 8:19Speaker 1: The speed of that escalation is terrifying. From caregiver to murder, planning,
- 8:24Speaker 1: interior decorating.
- 8:26Speaker 2: It shows how quickly things can spiral when that kind
- 8:28Speaker 2: of manipulative personality gets a foothold.
- 8:30Speaker 1: Okay, so fast forward about a month. Soria is upstairs,
- 8:33Speaker 1: isolated and.
- 8:35Speaker 2: She starts hearing new sounds, distinct sounds this time men's voices,
- 8:40Speaker 2: loud music, laughter, bit different from before.
- 8:44Speaker 1: She realizes it's worse than just indecent talk among women.
- 8:48Speaker 2: She knows something criminal is happening downstairs in her home.
- 8:52Speaker 1: So when Saber comes back on leave again.
- 8:55Speaker 2: She tries one last time. Yeah, Distraught, desperate, she tells
- 8:58Speaker 2: him everything she's heard, everything.
- 8:59Speaker 1: She's and sabers reaction. This time he must have been shocked.
- 9:02Speaker 2: He was shocked, yes, but remember that psychological wall I'm
- 9:05Speaker 2: all built, It was still standing strong.
- 9:07Speaker 1: He couldn't conceive, he couldn't make the leap to brothel.
- 9:09Speaker 2: No, his mind went to something slightly more normal. Maybe
- 9:15Speaker 2: he assumed I'm always just having an affair bad enough,
- 9:19Speaker 2: but not this.
- 9:21Speaker 1: So he confronts them.
- 9:22Speaker 2: All he does, And this right here is Amal's moment
- 9:26Speaker 2: of twisted genius. She doesn't panic, she doesn't get defensive
- 9:30Speaker 2: in the usual way.
- 9:30Speaker 1: What does she do?
- 9:31Speaker 2: She stays calm, and then she just completely flips the script,
- 9:34Speaker 2: turns on the waterworks, tears buckets, but not tears of guilt,
- 9:39Speaker 2: tears of victimhood. She accuses Saber of neglect. She says
- 9:42Speaker 2: she misses him so terribly, She's so lonely because he's
- 9:44Speaker 2: always away in Cairo.
- 9:45Speaker 1: Wow, so she makes him feel guilty exactly.
- 9:48Speaker 2: And the noise is Oh, that was just her and
- 9:50Speaker 2: a few friends watching explicit films, pornographic films on a
- 9:54Speaker 2: mobile phone.
- 9:55Speaker 1: Seriously, that was her explanation.
- 9:57Speaker 2: Yes, just trying to distract themselves from their lonelinesses claimed
- 10:01Speaker 2: because he wasn't.
- 10:01Speaker 1: There for her, and Saber, don't tell me he bought it.
- 10:04Speaker 2: He bought it instantly. Surrey apparently watched this whole performance,
- 10:08Speaker 2: saw the look of fake sorrow, this manufactured injustice on
- 10:11Speaker 2: Amal's face, and saw her.
- 10:13Speaker 1: Son just melt Why why would he believe that over
- 10:16Speaker 1: his own mother's desperate please?
- 10:18Speaker 2: Well, think about it from his perspective, however, warped i'm
- 10:21Speaker 2: all's story the porn films. It asks very little of him,
- 10:25Speaker 2: just pity, maybe some guilt. He can a suage, Okay,
- 10:27Speaker 2: Sorey's story that his wife is a criminal, his home
- 10:31Speaker 2: is a brothel. That means his entire marriage, his judgment,
- 10:34Speaker 2: everything is a catastrophic failure. It's too much to face.
- 10:37Speaker 1: The lie was easier, more comfortable in a sick way.
- 10:41Speaker 2: Tragically, Yes, yeah, Amal gave him the path of least
- 10:44Speaker 2: resistance psychologically, and he took it.
- 10:47Speaker 1: So what did Saber tell his mother?
- 10:49Speaker 2: He went back upstairs, told Siay, the noises were just
- 10:54Speaker 2: pornographic films, essentially, don't worry about it.
- 10:56Speaker 1: And Srea's reaction, she just gave up.
- 11:00Speaker 2: Knew then that the truth had absolutely no power against
- 11:02Speaker 2: Demaal's manipulation. She decided to stay silent, even pretend to believe.
- 11:07Speaker 1: Him that silence was her death sentence with it.
- 11:09Speaker 2: Really was for a mall. This confirmed it. Srey knew
- 11:11Speaker 2: too much and she couldn't be discredited anymore. She had
- 11:13Speaker 2: to be eliminated.
- 11:15Speaker 1: So the plan crystallizes, kills sirea, steal the money in gold,
- 11:19Speaker 1: burn the house, destroy the evidence, destroy the body.
- 11:22Speaker 2: Meticulous. But she needed help, or wanted help. She approached
- 11:27Speaker 2: her three partners, the sex workers.
- 11:29Speaker 1: Did they agree?
- 11:30Speaker 2: Only one did? The other two apparently drew the line
- 11:33Speaker 2: at murder.
- 11:35Speaker 1: What motivated the one who agreed greed?
- 11:37Speaker 2: Mainly Amal promised her to share the gold and the cash,
- 11:41Speaker 2: and significantly the promise of expanding the business later more rooms,
- 11:45Speaker 2: higher profits. Wan Things cooled down after a couple.
- 11:48Speaker 1: Of months, so murder as a strategic investment.
- 11:51Speaker 2: That's exactly how it was framed.
- 11:52Speaker 1: Okay, So the plan is set, the accomplices on board.
- 11:56Speaker 1: How long until they act?
- 11:57Speaker 2: Just one week? They waited until Saber went back to Cairo.
- 12:00Speaker 2: Then one evening, around eight pm, a Meal and her accomplice.
- 12:03Speaker 1: Met up and went upstairs, straight upstairs.
- 12:06Speaker 2: Sorea was already asleep in her room.
- 12:08Speaker 1: The details of the murder itself, they're brutal.
- 12:10Speaker 2: The source of state. They strangled her manually, violently, enough
- 12:14Speaker 2: force to actually fracture the bones in her.
- 12:16Speaker 1: Neck, ensuring she was dead. No ambiguity none.
- 12:19Speaker 2: Then a mall went straight to the closet, took the
- 12:21Speaker 2: eight thousand pounds, took the gold.
- 12:23Speaker 1: Jewelry, secured the loot first.
- 12:24Speaker 2: Then the cover up. A mall had gasoline ready. They
- 12:28Speaker 2: doused Soreya's room, set it ablaze, locked the door from
- 12:31Speaker 2: the outside, and fled.
- 12:32Speaker 1: Where did they take the stolen items?
- 12:34Speaker 2: They hid them at the accomplice's house.
- 12:36Speaker 1: But the fire didn't destroy everything.
- 12:38Speaker 2: Ro firefighters got there relatively quickly and contained it before
- 12:41Speaker 2: it consumed the whole house. But they found the body charred.
- 12:45Speaker 1: And the police arrived. Criminal investigation team.
- 12:49Speaker 2: They secure the scene. Amon is outside still playing the
- 12:52Speaker 2: grieving daughter in law perfectly. But the forensic lab that's
- 12:56Speaker 2: where her story begins to unravel fast.
- 12:59Speaker 1: What did they find?
- 13:00Speaker 2: Two absolutely crucial things. First, unmistakable traces of an accelerant
- 13:05Speaker 2: gasoline concentrated in Soreya's room. This wasn't an accidental stove fire,
- 13:09Speaker 2: it was arson.
- 13:10Speaker 1: Okay, that's huge.
- 13:11Speaker 2: And the second thing, the autopsy, This is the real
- 13:14Speaker 2: nail on the coffin from All's story. The forensic pathologists
- 13:17Speaker 2: confirmed the cause of death wasn't the fire or smoke inhalation,
- 13:20Speaker 2: it was the sting manual strangulation. Those broken neck bones
- 13:23Speaker 2: told the story. Sorea was dead before the fire was even.
- 13:26Speaker 1: Set, so the fire was definitely just a cover.
- 13:29Speaker 2: Up, attempt, absolutely attempted murder concealment. And when Saber returned devastated,
- 13:34Speaker 2: he confirmed the police that yes, the eight thousand pounds
- 13:37Speaker 2: and his mother's gold were missing from that closet.
- 13:41Speaker 1: So now it's murder, arson and theft. The picture is
- 13:44Speaker 1: becoming clear.
- 13:45Speaker 2: Very clear. And then investigators started getting whispers, secret sources,
- 13:51Speaker 2: maybe neighbors who suspected something wasn't right.
- 13:53Speaker 1: What did they reveal that this supposedly.
- 13:56Speaker 2: Respectable house hadn't been so respectable lately that it had
- 14:00Speaker 2: in fact been operating as a brothel for some time.
- 14:02Speaker 1: Which points the finger directly at mus Amal.
- 14:05Speaker 2: She immediately becomes the prime suspect, though interestingly police initially
- 14:09Speaker 2: considered Saber might be involved, or even that Sorea somehow
- 14:13Speaker 2: knew or participated. That shows you how well Amal had
- 14:16Speaker 2: maintained that facade.
- 14:18Speaker 1: But Amal sticks to her story during questioning.
- 14:20Speaker 2: Like glue calm, collected detailed alibi. She even named her accomplice,
- 14:25Speaker 2: but only in the context of her innocent version of events,
- 14:28Speaker 2: just as they'd pre agreed.
- 14:30Speaker 1: So how did the police break her.
- 14:31Speaker 2: Classic interrogation tactic? Brilliant really? They brought in the accomplice
- 14:36Speaker 2: separately and told her they lied. They told the accomplice
- 14:39Speaker 2: that Amal had already cracked confessed everything, and it blamed
- 14:43Speaker 2: the accomplice for the whole thing, the murder, the theft.
- 14:47Speaker 2: Claimed Amal was intimidated into.
- 14:49Speaker 1: Helping, turning them against each other, exactly.
- 14:51Speaker 2: Putting all the pressure, all the blame onto the accomplice,
- 14:55Speaker 2: and it worked. She broke instantly, completely confessed, told everything,
- 15:00Speaker 2: the plot, the murder, the theft, the motive, and crucially
- 15:04Speaker 2: led them right to her house where the stolen gold
- 15:07Speaker 2: and money were hidden.
- 15:08Speaker 1: So with the confession and the recovered evidence, Amal.
- 15:10Speaker 2: Had nowhere left to go. Confronted with the accomplices confession
- 15:14Speaker 2: and the physical evidence, she was forced to confess as well,
- 15:17Speaker 2: and the outcome both were eventually tried, convicted, and sentenced
- 15:20Speaker 2: to death.
- 15:20Speaker 1: It's just an astonishing story of calculated cruelty. The core
- 15:25Speaker 1: lesson really is how methodical the deception was.
- 15:28Speaker 2: Absolutely the isolation first, then the character assassination, making Soraya
- 15:33Speaker 2: seem senile, then building the criminal enterprise right under her roof,
- 15:37Speaker 2: and only then the final act of violence.
- 15:40Speaker 1: And the irony is just gut wrenching saber. This son,
- 15:44Speaker 1: who dedicated his life to his mother.
- 15:46Speaker 2: Was so thoroughly manipulated, so psychologically controlled by Amal, that
- 15:50Speaker 2: he refused to see the truth staring him in the face.
- 15:53Speaker 2: He chose the comforting lie over the devastating reality his
- 15:57Speaker 2: mother presented.
- 15:58Speaker 1: It really underscores the power of that kind of focused
- 16:02Speaker 1: predatory manipulation it does.
- 16:04Speaker 2: And connecting this back to you the listener, this case
- 16:08Speaker 2: really forces you to think about how easily narratives can
- 16:10Speaker 2: be shaped right, especially when someone you trust is telling
- 16:13Speaker 2: you something that contradicts what another person you trust is saying.
- 16:16Speaker 1: I'm all basically weaponized Saber's desire for a stable, happy
- 16:21Speaker 1: marriage against his bond with his.
- 16:22Speaker 2: Own mother precisely, which leads to that final lingering question.
- 16:25Speaker 2: The sources talk about a mother's instinct, Soiraya's initial unease about.
- 16:29Speaker 1: Them, all, that feeling she had right at the beginning.
- 16:32Speaker 2: Yeah, So the provocative thought is this, if Soireya had
- 16:36Speaker 2: spoken up forcefully back then during Saber's first visit after
- 16:39Speaker 2: the wedding, if she had risked his anger, risked the
- 16:43Speaker 2: marriage falling apart right at the start, Could.
- 16:46Speaker 1: That confrontation, that temporary unhappiness have ultimately saved her life.
- 16:51Speaker 2: It's impossible to know for sure, but it's something to
- 16:54Speaker 2: really mull over, isn't it. The cost of silence versus
- 16:57Speaker 2: the risk of speaking truth to someone who might not want.
- 16:59Speaker 1: To hear it A chilling thought to end on. Thanks
- 17:02Speaker 1: for joining us for this deep dive