Latest / Common Sense Ohio / Free Speech or Just Noise? Press Bans, Gas Prices, and Real-World Fallout

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Free Speech or Just Noise? Press Bans, Gas Prices, and Real-World Fallout · Common Sense Ohio

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Steve Palmer: I know you need it. I do too. Your weekly dose of common sense
0:04
Steve Palmer: back after a couple-week hiatus. Yours truly in a jury trial.
0:08
Steve Palmer: We have real jobs. Um, Norm out racing the world, taking on
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Steve Palmer: the all-comers. It is September 23rd, 2026. This
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Steve Palmer: day in history, Norm, Lewis and Clark returned. Oh, wow.
0:20
Steve Palmer: Um, there's 2 interesting things that happened in history. Lewis and Clark returned from their
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Steve Palmer: expedition out to the Pacific Northwest. Um, which was kind of
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Norm Murdock: a miracle. A miracle, right? Cross the Mississippi, go, uh, they returned to
0:32
Steve Palmer: St. Louis. A lot of unfriendly situations. I mean,
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Steve Palmer: yeah, I mean, really. And anybody, there's a great book by, I think, Stephen Ambrose
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Steve Palmer: called Undaunted Courage. I read that long ago, but well worth
0:43
Steve Palmer: a read. Now turned into a TV series. Oh, is it really? Yeah. Gonna come
0:47
Norm Murdock: out. I didn't know that. Yeah. I didn't know that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, look,
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Steve Palmer: even more relevant then. See, I'm relevant. I don't even know that I'm relevant. Hey,
0:53
Norm Murdock: you are. But they traveled up the Missouri River in 6
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Steve Palmer: canoes and 2 longboats, wintered in the Dakotas. I mean, what's a little
1:00
Steve Palmer: mild winter up in the Dakotas? Before crossing into Montana where
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Steve Palmer: they first saw the Rocky Mountains on the other side of the Continental Divide. They
1:08
Steve Palmer: were met by Sacagawea's tribe, the Shoshone Indians,
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Steve Palmer: who sold them horses for the journey down through the Bitterfoot Mountains
1:17
Steve Palmer: after passing through the dangerous rapids of the Clearwater and snake rivers across in
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Steve Palmer: canoes, they reached the calm of the Columbia River, which led them to the sea.
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Norm Murdock: So, I mean, the most amazing thing you just
1:29
Norm Murdock: glanced off there, but if, if you read Ambrose's book
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Norm Murdock: and dig into Sacagawea, that whole thing is a
1:37
Norm Murdock: flipping miracle. Yeah. So, so I, I don't know if you can, if you
1:41
Norm Murdock: know this, but, and I just found out, you know, recently
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Norm Murdock: Sacagawea was married off or captured or
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Norm Murdock: something to a completely different tribe than this
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Norm Murdock: Shoshone. When Lewis and
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Norm Murdock: Clark— I mean, her— so here she is, she's pregnant or,
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Norm Murdock: or just had a baby, and she's on this expedition. She's a young girl.
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Norm Murdock: It's completely bizarre that they would even have her along. It
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Steve Palmer: doesn't make any sense, right? It makes no sense, but they have her along. And
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Norm Murdock: the key moment is she is long separated
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Norm Murdock: from her relatives in the Shoshone tribe. Like, we're talking
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Norm Murdock: several states away. Like, she's, she's from like
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Norm Murdock: Minnesota area. Yeah, and probably what, like in teens? Yes.
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Steve Palmer: I mean, imagine the age of these people and compare them to what our, our
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Steve Palmer: youth are doing. But she's like thousands of miles, or
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Norm Murdock: at least hundreds of miles away from her, her
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Norm Murdock: relatives. And Lewis and Clark meet these Shoshones.
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Norm Murdock: They're, they're, they're starving, their horses are done, they
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Norm Murdock: need supplies. And these Shoshones are viewing them as
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Norm Murdock: aliens that probably need to get killed. Yeah. Like, like, you know,
2:55
Norm Murdock: no, we're not buddies with you. She waddles up and goes, oh,
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Norm Murdock: my long-lost brother or cousin or whatever it is. She
3:03
Norm Murdock: recognizes her old family They recognize her.
3:07
Norm Murdock: They have this big love-in, uh, you know, embrace.
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Norm Murdock: And, and, and then she starts negotiating and, and
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Norm Murdock: relieves all of the tension. They get, they get the ponies, they get
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Norm Murdock: the food, they get more guides in. She ends up
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Norm Murdock: staying with them, I think, and not proceeding on with the
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Norm Murdock: rest of the expedition. And it, it's just,
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Norm Murdock: it's one of those like one in a million
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Norm Murdock: kind of encounter. Yeah, it shouldn't have happened. It's like
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Steve Palmer: by God's will only, you know. Like Jefferson would have
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Norm Murdock: sent Lewis and Clark off and we would have never heard from them again. Yeah,
3:46
Steve Palmer: scalped and dead somewhere in the Rockies, right? Yeah, just— Or just dead, frozen
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Steve Palmer: dead in the Dakota tundra. Yeah, and then what? No
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Norm Murdock: Louisiana Purchase, or I don't know. Like, I don't know what would have happened
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Norm Murdock: out of that. Really incredible. It's, it's unbelievable. Really incredible. And
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Steve Palmer: I, I— So she deserves that dollar. She does. She does, right? And
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Steve Palmer: for those who haven't read the, the Wilderness Tales, Alan Eckert's book, it talks about
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Steve Palmer: young Lewis and Clark, I think, a little bit in some of those books. Oh,
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Norm Murdock: cool. Uh, really interesting stuff. The other thing that happened, which is historically significant
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Steve Palmer: on this day, on September 23rd, 19— let's get a year for Lewis and
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Steve Palmer: Clark, by the way. Uh, that was— I don't think we ever said the year.
4:25
Steve Palmer: 1806. Yeah, a little later than I thought it was. And they actually were
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Norm Murdock: penetrating into like Spanish territory. Like
4:32
Norm Murdock: they were going into another country's— Invading.
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Norm Murdock: Yeah. So in 1933, a party of American geologists lands
4:41
Steve Palmer: where? At the Persian Gulf port of Jubail in Saudi
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Steve Palmer: Arabia and begins its journey into the desert where we eventually
4:48
Steve Palmer: stake our claim. Standard Oil stakes its claim and The rest, as
4:52
Steve Palmer: we say, is history. Yeah. Aramco and all that came
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Norm Murdock: out of all that. Partnership between Abdelaziz's government and Standard Oil
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Steve Palmer: became known as the Arabian American Oil Company, Aramco.
5:04
Steve Palmer: Texaco soon joined the partnership. Why not? About a decade later.
5:09
Steve Palmer: And eventually we have the war in
5:13
Steve Palmer: Iran. Kind of what Trump is doing in Venezuela.
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Steve Palmer: Like, real. Yeah. And what Trump said is like, we found it there anyway, not
5:20
Steve Palmer: you guys. Yeah. I don't know if that's how it was either way,
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Steve Palmer: but yeah. Yeah, right. We'll help you exploit it. Yeah.
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Norm Murdock: And you'll get to share in the benefits. But, you know, obviously,
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Norm Murdock: you know, US companies need some sort of security that you're not
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Norm Murdock: going to nationalize all this oil infrastructure and steal
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Norm Murdock: it from us. Right. You know, so
5:44
Norm Murdock: interesting stuff. Well, Steve,
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Norm Murdock: I mean, this is— let's be more philosophical today rather than
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Norm Murdock: news-oriented. So I love that
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Norm Murdock: there's this big controversy that Trump used the word
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Norm Murdock: annihilate at the UN, right? So, so
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Norm Murdock: he presents this either this or
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Norm Murdock: that kind of vision of the future for
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Norm Murdock: Iran. Okay. On one hand, you know, we can annihilate you
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Norm Murdock: guys. On the other hand, you can change your ways.
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Norm Murdock: and decide to join the rest of the
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Norm Murdock: non-terrorist countries of the world.
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Norm Murdock: And you can metamorphose
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Norm Murdock: into, you know, this huge— I mean, the people in
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Norm Murdock: Iran are brilliant. They're brilliant engineers. They've always— the
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Norm Murdock: Persians have always been the vanguard of
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Norm Murdock: human knowledge. I mean, when Europeans were crawling around in
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Norm Murdock: caves, Persia, you know, was leading in
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Norm Murdock: astronomy and mathematics and chemistry. I mean, really,
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Steve Palmer: I didn't know that. Yeah, I mean, it was like ancient Alexandria in
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Norm Murdock: Egypt at the time, you know, the Library in Alexandria,
7:01
Norm Murdock: you know. And in, in Europe, Britons and Frenchies were, you know,
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Norm Murdock: they were in loincloths throwing spears. I mean, really,
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Norm Murdock: the Near East, the, the, the, the the old,
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Norm Murdock: centuries-old Middle East was a bastion
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Norm Murdock: of human advancement. And Trump is saying, you guys could do that again.
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Norm Murdock: You could be one of the world's great countries. And he used the
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Norm Murdock: word annihilate. And I, you know, I'm thinking back to Winston
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Norm Murdock: Churchill where, you know, he's nose to nose with Hitler,
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Norm Murdock: right? And he says, you know, we're gonna fight you on the beaches, we're gonna
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Norm Murdock: fight you in the air, we're gonna fight you on land, we're gonna fight you
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Norm Murdock: at sea. we're never going to give up. We're never, you know, like, to the
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Norm Murdock: last British person, we're going to
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Norm Murdock: fight you, you know, with every breath. And, and
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Norm Murdock: I, I guess what I don't understand is a country that
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Norm Murdock: sanctioned this horrible attack on October the
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Norm Murdock: 7th, where they, they throw babies in ovens and they do all this
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Norm Murdock: horrible stuff and, and, and blow up the Marine
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Norm Murdock: barracks and, and kill several hundred Marines in
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Norm Murdock: Lebanon, and, and all the other roadside IEDs,
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Norm Murdock: which, you know, our Marine friends know very well all
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Norm Murdock: about that, including here in Columbus. Mhm. Like,
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Norm Murdock: why aren't the Iranian mullahs viewed as
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Norm Murdock: like Hitlers? And why aren't we— why, why do words like
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Norm Murdock: annihilate, which we can use in regards to a
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Norm Murdock: Hitler or a Tojo, Why is that
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Norm Murdock: so outrageous to say?
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Norm Murdock: I know it's bravado, but so what? Well, look, some of it's
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Steve Palmer: Trumpian bravado. Some of it's like, look, we're going to annihilate you, or you could
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Steve Palmer: be our friends. I don't care either way. And he probably doesn't. He probably does.
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Steve Palmer: But it's like he does. But what he's trying to say is,
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Steve Palmer: look, we don't want to fight you anymore, but we will. But why
9:01
Steve Palmer: politically is there such a backlash? You know,
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Steve Palmer: there's this movement that has been instilled in
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Steve Palmer: our country going way back.
9:14
Steve Palmer: And we've taught our country to hate itself. We've taught our country to
9:18
Steve Palmer: sympathize with its enemies. And you hear the El-Sayed saying, well, hurt people
9:22
Steve Palmer: do hurt things. It doesn't justify anything that happened on October 7th or
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Steve Palmer: whatever that was. Yeah. It doesn't justify any of it. And people are saying,
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Steve Palmer: Whatever it is, people are now sympathizing somehow with the
9:34
Steve Palmer: terrorists who want us to die. Yeah. We deserved
9:38
Norm Murdock: it. Because we deserved it. And some of it has to do
9:42
Steve Palmer: with, well, it's because we're beholden to the Israelis only.
9:47
Steve Palmer: And I argue with people all the time. It's like, look, 2 things can be
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Steve Palmer: true here. We have a common enemy. We have a common
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Steve Palmer: enemy. One of them says, we want you guys to die. Right.
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Steve Palmer: We want to take you off the face of the planet, instill Sharia law, and
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Steve Palmer: be done with you, and be done with the West forever. You know, join Allah
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Steve Palmer: or die. Right. And the other has its own problems. Yes, its
10:08
Steve Palmer: own evils. Like Zelensky in Ukraine. He's not a perfect
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Norm Murdock: ally. Correct. He banned opposition parties and stuff like
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Norm Murdock: that. So he's not perfect. So both things can be true. Yes,
10:19
Steve Palmer: both things can be true. And we have to, you know, the world's not this
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Steve Palmer: perfect place, and we don't get to come hide in our country anymore. We don't,
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Steve Palmer: but we've opened up the borders to this. I've always wondered about this. I'd be
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Steve Palmer: curious, and this is philosophical, right? It's
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Steve Palmer: not— Right. But I've always wondered at what point, you know, Marx said,
10:35
Steve Palmer: I probably said this here before, Marx said, a capitalistic society contains
10:39
Steve Palmer: the seeds of its own destruction. And what he was trying to say
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Steve Palmer: is, well, eventually the working class is gonna rise up and
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Steve Palmer: overturn the capitalists. Well, that never happened. But to some extent, he's true.
10:51
Steve Palmer: It's true because we have the, and it's not just capitalism, it's our brand of
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Steve Palmer: it. It's our brand of freedom contains the seeds of its own destruction because we
10:57
Steve Palmer: let let opposition in to
11:00
Steve Palmer: speak against us. Yes. And we let people come in
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Steve Palmer: and disseminate, uh, a message.
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Norm Murdock: Yeah. To our youth. We're a free speech society. Yeah. And we've let that in.
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Steve Palmer: So we've taught our youth that America is bad. Right. And you see it on
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Steve Palmer: YouTube. I see these people interviewed on YouTube. Like, our standard of living right now
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Steve Palmer: is better than it's ever been in the entire world history. No question. And
11:24
Steve Palmer: these people who hate our country are doing so on their
11:27
Steve Palmer: $1,500 iPhones and with
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Steve Palmer: unlimited data. Using data centers. Right,
11:34
Steve Palmer: using data, right. And you can make an argument that maybe
11:38
Steve Palmer: we have too many data centers, I don't know, but you can't,
11:42
Steve Palmer: you know, so, but somehow that message has come true. So we have let that
11:45
Steve Palmer: in. So the seeds of our destruction is that we let other people
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Steve Palmer: outwardly speak against our government. We consider that sacred. Right. Right? You
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Steve Palmer: have the right to do that. Absolutely. And we'll defend it. So, but when does
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Steve Palmer: it cross the line and become treason? When is it treason to say we want
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Steve Palmer: to take down the American government and fundamentally change it forever? I don't know
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Steve Palmer: the answer to that. It's a philosophical question. And you can't say, but you can't
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Steve Palmer: even bring that up now without being called xenophobic or
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Steve Palmer: whatever, you're racist, whatever. But back to your question, like, why is it bad?
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Steve Palmer: Because we've let into our ideology the
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Steve Palmer: notion that we deserve it. Yeah, well, I'll never forget, you know,
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Norm Murdock: there's been a lot of outrageous things said at the UN, and
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Norm Murdock: I'll never forget, you know, I was in college, I think,
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Norm Murdock: when this happened. I don't— Steve, you might have been a gleam in your father's
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Norm Murdock: eye, I, I don't know, uh, or, or a little
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Norm Murdock: crumb cruncher at the time, but, um, we—
12:43
Norm Murdock: there, there's an age difference. But I remember when Yasser Arafat,
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Norm Murdock: who is head of the PLO, addressed the UN and he was wearing
12:50
Norm Murdock: pistols. He was at the microphone with
12:56
Norm Murdock: holsters that had pistols in them, right? And
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Norm Murdock: he's— obviously at the time they were
13:03
Norm Murdock: hijacking aircraft. They were, they were, they were— the
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Norm Murdock: PLO was hijacking aircraft and flying them
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Norm Murdock: to Cuba where somehow Castro would welcome them.
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Norm Murdock: And it was part of this whole communist— socialist, well, we're going to
13:19
Norm Murdock: liberate Palestine somehow by hijacking
13:22
Norm Murdock: airplanes. Yeah. And of course, they blew up some, they killed some of
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Norm Murdock: the passengers. You know, they, they, the Germans took
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Norm Murdock: one to Uganda in support of the Palestinians. It's so
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Norm Murdock: bizarre. All of this crazy stuff, very violent. And we
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Norm Murdock: let those people speak at the UN. But Trump uses the word
13:42
Norm Murdock: annihilate And it's the end of the world somehow. But it's interesting
13:46
Steve Palmer: though. I mean, I listen to Victor Davis Hanson a lot and some other,
13:49
Steve Palmer: some other thinkers. Well, he's brilliant. I think are uncontaminated by this stuff.
13:53
Norm Murdock: Yeah. And, you know, he's a little bit more
13:57
Steve Palmer: optimistic about this. He's saying, look, there's a, there's a pushback that's
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Steve Palmer: underpinning all that's sort of gurgling up
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Steve Palmer: in Europe. You're starting to see a pushback on open
14:08
Steve Palmer: immigration. Yeah. In Germany. In Germany, for sure. For sure. You just start to get
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Steve Palmer: to the point where when is enough enough? Yeah. And,
14:16
Steve Palmer: you know, we're— look, if you outwardly say to a country like
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Steve Palmer: the United States of America that has done nothing but offer you
14:25
Steve Palmer: a peaceful hand— That's right. I mean, even through all the craziness, there's been
14:29
Steve Palmer: wars, I get it. But eventually we're going to just
14:32
Steve Palmer: annihilate you. We can say we're going to annihilate you or come join us either
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Steve Palmer: way. Yeah. Part of what Carter did when he had the
14:42
Norm Murdock: when he had the peace agreement between the
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Norm Murdock: PLO and Israel,
14:50
Norm Murdock: well, it was Egypt and Israel at Camp David.
14:54
Norm Murdock: But part of that was we even funded
14:58
Norm Murdock: humanitarian funding for the PLO. Just what you
15:02
Norm Murdock: said. We reached out and said, okay, you
15:05
Norm Murdock: hijacked our airplanes, you've killed people, you've bombed, you know,
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Norm Murdock: the Marines, you've done all this horrible stuff, and yet
15:14
Norm Murdock: we still want to have peace so badly
15:18
Norm Murdock: that we're reaching across the divide to at least feed or
15:21
Norm Murdock: provide medicine for your people. Yeah, because that's what our country's always done.
15:25
Steve Palmer: It's always done. That's right. And, and we do that in Burma.
15:29
Norm Murdock: We do that with a lot of countries that hate us. Yeah. And now
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Steve Palmer: And now the easy trope is, well, it's the Jews, right? So you guys are
15:37
Steve Palmer: just hijacked by the Jews. By the Jews, right. And you don't know any better.
15:40
Steve Palmer: Yeah. And to that I say, well, look,
15:46
Steve Palmer: we still have this common enemy, so let's at least deal with that. Right. And
15:50
Steve Palmer: I guess they would say in response, well, the only reason you're enemies to them
15:53
Steve Palmer: is because of the Jews. And I would say to that, well, look,
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Steve Palmer: maybe, but they're saying they want us dead. And
16:01
Steve Palmer: they— in our way of government, our tolerant
16:05
Steve Palmer: government, our tolerant freedoms, uh, they don't
16:09
Steve Palmer: want that. You have to, you have to see it there. They want their own
16:12
Steve Palmer: theocracy instilled worldwide. That's, that's their, that's
16:16
Steve Palmer: their mantra. When we had that author in here, Mr. Patankin.
16:21
Steve Palmer: Yeah. Uh, and we had him in here and, um, and, and
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Norm Murdock: we discussed his book. There was a very sympathetic
16:29
Norm Murdock: American Jew who has a lot of friends that
16:33
Norm Murdock: are Palestinians, obviously a lot of friends that are
16:36
Norm Murdock: Israelis. Mm-hmm. And he wrote a straight down the middle
16:39
Norm Murdock: kind of snapshot of what life was like
16:43
Norm Murdock: in the Gaza Strip after those, the atrocities.
16:48
Norm Murdock: And it's pretty clear to me
16:53
Norm Murdock: that if I'm a Palestinian leader, Why would I
16:56
Norm Murdock: antagonize intentionally and, and, and commit
17:00
Norm Murdock: atrocities or sanction them or even celebrate them if I had
17:04
Norm Murdock: no planning in it whatsoever? Why would I
17:07
Norm Murdock: celebrate something like that, uh, against Benjamin
17:11
Norm Murdock: Netanyahu, whom, whom I have a lot of disagreements with?
17:15
Steve Palmer: Sure. I, I don't think Netanyahu's a great guy, but, but
17:19
Norm Murdock: why would you take on the Israeli army and
17:23
Norm Murdock: obviously trigger that response where he just decimates
17:27
Norm Murdock: the Gaza Strip in response to that attack. You know
17:31
Norm Murdock: what's going to happen, so you must not care about your own people. Well, they
17:35
Steve Palmer: don't, because— or who knows? I can't say what they care about or they don't
17:38
Steve Palmer: care about, but what you're saying is they had to have known. They had to
17:41
Norm Murdock: have known what the reaction was. So is it just that they're so naive that
17:44
Steve Palmer: they think that they can beat us in a conventional war? No. I don't know,
17:48
Steve Palmer: but I think they think they can beat us long-term in an intellectual war.
17:52
Norm Murdock: Yeah. And they're winning on some front. Maybe. You're, you're right.
17:56
Norm Murdock: Americans do get tired. We do get, we do get worn out. And
18:00
Norm Murdock: Patton ran into that after World War II where he's like, you know, the Russians—
18:05
Steve Palmer: Right now's the time, guys. You know, and, and then in America, we, hey,
18:09
Norm Murdock: we're done. And then 20 years later, Khrushchev is saying he's going to bury us,
18:12
Steve Palmer: right? So, right. Yeah. And then Korea. They, they tried
18:16
Norm Murdock: very hard to bury us. Yeah. So, you know, I, I don't know.
18:20
Norm Murdock: Uh, one of the things, Steve, that the 9/11 Commission said that just
18:25
Norm Murdock: always comes back to me is
18:29
Norm Murdock: that we knew that radical
18:32
Norm Murdock: Islam from various countries— but basically it's those in
18:36
Norm Murdock: favor of this caliphate that would take over the world.
18:40
Norm Murdock: So you're talking about ISIS, you're talking about
18:44
Norm Murdock: Osama bin Laden. The radical fraction. The radical factions of it. Factions,
18:48
Norm Murdock: whether they're Shia or not, either one,
18:53
Norm Murdock: that they were at war with us. They tried
18:57
Norm Murdock: to bring down the World Trade Center
19:01
Norm Murdock: under Bill Clinton and failed. And they
19:05
Norm Murdock: succeeded later on with airplanes. And it's, it's like
19:08
Norm Murdock: 9/11 Commission said, they were at war with us.
19:13
Norm Murdock: We were too naive or we were
19:17
Norm Murdock: too complacent to realize that we should have been at war with them.
19:21
Steve Palmer: Yeah. I mean, you know, it's like when somebody is attacking you
19:25
Norm Murdock: and you go, you know, it's kind of like the bully. So you played football
19:29
Norm Murdock: and there's a guy in the locker room that thinks he's all that. And
19:34
Norm Murdock: either the other guys put him in his place and say, hey, you're just another
19:38
Norm Murdock: member of this team, right? You're not running this show. We don't care if you're
19:42
Norm Murdock: the 350-pound, you know, offensive lineman.
19:46
Norm Murdock: You're not going to throw your weight around in this locker room. That's right. We'll
19:49
Norm Murdock: pile on. We'll kick your ass. You can't talk to this guy like, like the
19:53
Norm Murdock: way you're talking because you're going to ruin the team spirit. And,
19:57
Norm Murdock: and, you know, Either we understand that we are
20:01
Norm Murdock: at war and that we're being bullied and that we're in
20:05
Norm Murdock: jeopardy, or it's irresponsible.
20:09
Norm Murdock: It's suicidal. Well, and, but—
20:13
Norm Murdock: Not to recognize it. But it's a little more, it's grayer than that, right? Because
20:17
Steve Palmer: even back then, I think there was this notion that somehow from the far left
20:21
Steve Palmer: at the time, it was somehow we deserved it. We're not, but
20:24
Steve Palmer: now there's a whole generation of people that think that. They actually now think that.
20:27
Steve Palmer: It's become more mainstream. Yeah. And it's actually those people are getting
20:30
Steve Palmer: elected to run our government. It's a scary thought. Yeah.
20:34
Norm Murdock: Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, I think we talked about this on the show
20:38
Norm Murdock: last, last show. So they're going to try the
20:42
Norm Murdock: mastermind of 9/11, right? He's going to be
20:46
Norm Murdock: tried in a US military court. I think in Gitmo is where they
20:49
Norm Murdock: have the trial, because if they bring him to the
20:53
Norm Murdock: United States, all sorts of civil rights will attach. So
20:57
Norm Murdock: they're going to try him in a military tribunal, but this military
21:01
Norm Murdock: judge has just thrown out all of his confession.
21:05
Norm Murdock: This is 20— so I think they're going to try him. They're, they're
21:08
Norm Murdock: projecting the trial start in 2028, which will be
21:12
Norm Murdock: 27 years after. Isn't that crazy,
21:16
Steve Palmer: dude? It's crazy. And it's— we're, we're giving
21:20
Norm Murdock: him They're saying, well, his confession was
21:23
Norm Murdock: compelled by waterboarding, so that's out.
21:29
Norm Murdock: And he's getting all the benefits of this—
21:33
Steve Palmer: Of a Western civilization notion of justice.
21:37
Norm Murdock: And he would kill us tomorrow. They would kill— this,
21:41
Steve Palmer: folks, is what makes our country better than all the others, because
21:45
Steve Palmer: we will do that for people. I teed this up for a defense attorney. Come
21:49
Norm Murdock: on, man. But, well, look, I mean it. This is— I know you mean it,
21:52
Norm Murdock: and it is true. It is true. I agree with you. That the people that
21:56
Steve Palmer: want to kill us, we will give them quarter and the same rights and protect—
22:00
Steve Palmer: maybe not identical, but we didn't have to do that. No.
22:04
Norm Murdock: You know, we could have captured this guy and just killed him. And just called
22:06
Steve Palmer: it a war. Yeah, that's right. And justified it 100 ways from Sunday,
22:10
Steve Palmer: whatever the saying is. Look, he's running. Boom. Right, look, done. But we
22:14
Steve Palmer: don't, and we've done some bad stuff, just like everybody's done some bad stuff. But
22:19
Steve Palmer: by and large, in the main, we don't treat even our enemies that
22:23
Steve Palmer: way, even though they would treat us that way. Yeah. There was a
22:26
Norm Murdock: Nuremberg trial. Yep. Adolf Eichmann was tried in
22:31
Norm Murdock: Israel, and he was provided with defense counsel, and they
22:34
Norm Murdock: had a trial. And it might've been a little bit of a kangaroo. The outcome
22:38
Steve Palmer: may have been predetermined. Who knows? Yeah, but the evidence was pretty strong.
22:42
Steve Palmer: It was important for us to at least make it, at least
22:46
Steve Palmer: go through the motions. I'm trying to think the right way. At
22:50
Steve Palmer: least offer some semblance of due process. Well, some guys
22:54
Norm Murdock: did not get hung. Some guys did not. Albert Speer. And the
22:58
Steve Palmer: other side, had they have won, it would've just been an execution squad without any
23:01
Steve Palmer: due process. Yeah, right. But for us, it's important, right? Absolutely.
23:04
Steve Palmer: And on posts, on pikes in the public street. And I mean, Albert
23:08
Norm Murdock: Speer was later released. I mean, he was the
23:12
Norm Murdock: minister of armaments, Hitler's architect. Architect. And he
23:16
Norm Murdock: used all kinds of slave labor in those rocket tunnels. You
23:19
Norm Murdock: know, prisoners of war and ethnic
23:23
Norm Murdock: slaves died by the tens of thousands building
23:27
Norm Murdock: V-2s and V-1s in caves. Yep. They worked until
23:31
Norm Murdock: they dropped. And you're like, okay, you'd let him out?
23:35
Norm Murdock: You know, and then he wrote books and kind of became a celebrity.
23:39
Norm Murdock: I mean, it's— yeah, it's Wernher von Braun. Yeah. I mean,
23:44
Norm Murdock: the guy who ran NASA was the guy who invented the
23:47
Norm Murdock: V-2, for God's sake. Yeah. And there's a lot that we get— there's a lot
23:51
Steve Palmer: of historical criticism on that. Like, yeah, you guys are all
23:55
Steve Palmer: Nazis, are bad, except for the rocket scientists. We'll bring you— you guys can become
23:58
Steve Palmer: citizens. Right. And Walt Disney even like, uh, papered
24:02
Norm Murdock: over von Braun. I mean, you know, there were specials on how
24:05
Norm Murdock: wonderful the American space program— and it was wonderful, but
24:10
Norm Murdock: yeah, some unsavory people were involved for sure. Yeah. Now
24:14
Steve Palmer: look, we don't— we're— maybe it's this: those who would—
24:18
Steve Palmer: it's, it's usually the youth, right? But that's what scares me, that it's not just
24:21
Steve Palmer: the youth anymore. Maybe the youth are getting older and they still believe it. Yeah.
24:24
Steve Palmer: Is that they want to operate on this, on this idea
24:29
Steve Palmer: of what they think the world should be instead of what it is. Right. They're
24:32
Norm Murdock: very idealistic. No question.
24:36
Steve Palmer: And maybe my religion and my faith
24:40
Steve Palmer: informs this, but I sort of start with the notion that, look,
24:45
Steve Palmer: perfection here is unattainable on this earth, on this earth with
24:48
Steve Palmer: humans. It's unattainable. And if you don't believe me because of my faith, then
24:53
Steve Palmer: look at it from a non-Christian standpoint. Like, who's been perfect
24:57
Steve Palmer: here, folks? Like, what— like, you think that you're going to be able to usher
25:00
Steve Palmer: in perfection, right, after all these thousands of years? That you
25:04
Steve Palmer: can do it, right? Um, if only, if only you had the power to do
25:08
Steve Palmer: it, right? And the youth tend to think that, well, we deserve it. We're not
25:11
Steve Palmer: perfect. We should be this, we should be that, we should be that. But it
25:14
Steve Palmer: always leads to inconsistencies. It always, right? So at some point—
25:18
Norm Murdock: You're so right. There's no bottom to it. The rabbis
25:22
Norm Murdock: that were against Jesus,
25:26
Norm Murdock: what that particular— The Pharisees. The Pharisees, they thought they'd trap
25:30
Norm Murdock: him by saying, well, you know, look at this contradiction
25:35
Norm Murdock: where, you know, you're in the real world with Caesar. And
25:39
Norm Murdock: Jesus said, give to Caesar what is Caesar's. Yeah, so here you go. Give it
25:43
Steve Palmer: to Caesar. Yeah, you know. Whose face is on their coin? Even Jesus, the Son
25:47
Norm Murdock: of God, recognized that we live in a, in a, in an
25:51
Norm Murdock: imperfect world. And, and there's this reality that
25:54
Norm Murdock: there are dictatorships or that there is a power struggle
25:59
Norm Murdock: that is, you know, of this earth, but
26:03
Norm Murdock: that your idealism, your spirit, your
26:07
Norm Murdock: personal behavior, it can be above and
26:11
Norm Murdock: outside that. It has to be. I had a buddy Very
26:15
Steve Palmer: close friend of mine was sending me, and we don't agree politically. Yeah.
26:20
Steve Palmer: Contrary to what he thinks though, we probably agree more than he thinks. But some
26:23
Steve Palmer: of these people that were sort of these traditional Democrats are
26:27
Steve Palmer: now starting to wake up a little bit. They sure are. Yeah. But sent me
26:30
Steve Palmer: this Facebook post and one of his, and it was about the El-Sayed election
26:35
Steve Palmer: in Michigan and that primary, something about that. And he sent me this
26:38
Steve Palmer: Facebook post where somebody had made some comment
26:42
Steve Palmer: about the Beatitudes from the Sermon on the Mount or
26:46
Steve Palmer: whatever it was, Christ preaching. And he goes, look, all
26:50
Steve Palmer: these people on the right, they should read the Bible that they preach, whatever it
26:53
Steve Palmer: is. And he couldn't have been— they couldn't have been more wrong. It's
26:57
Steve Palmer: not that— see, but it's not that Christ was saying governments should
27:01
Steve Palmer: force us to act this way. Exactly. It has to come from here.
27:05
Steve Palmer: And it's still impossible, right? You're right. And but we strive for that
27:09
Steve Palmer: perfection so eventually we can be at the kingdom of God. You know, it's like,
27:13
Steve Palmer: yes, it's like we strive to that. We strive for perfection, but it's still
27:16
Steve Palmer: unattainable in this world. And he was pointing out that. Yeah, right. He was
27:20
Steve Palmer: pointing that stuff out. And here these people take that Bible verse and sort of
27:23
Steve Palmer: try to spin it and say, right, therefore give us the power of the government
27:26
Steve Palmer: to make it so nobody hates gay people. So nobody hates—
27:30
Norm Murdock: It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than
27:34
Norm Murdock: for a rich man to get into That's right. God's kingdom. And so they
27:38
Norm Murdock: take that and warp it into, oh, so let's strip
27:42
Norm Murdock: all the rich people of everything they own, and then that way they can get
27:46
Norm Murdock: into heaven. Yeah. No, that's not what Jesus meant. That's not what he meant at
27:49
Steve Palmer: all. Right. That's not what he meant at all. He didn't mean compel other
27:53
Norm Murdock: people. He didn't mean strip them of what they
27:56
Norm Murdock: own. And that's your sacrifice, right?
28:00
Norm Murdock: That's not your personal sacrifice. It's not. It's never theirs, right? It's never theirs.
28:04
Steve Palmer: They're not giving their money up. No, no, no. Bernie has several mansions. He's,
28:08
Norm Murdock: he's a multi-millionaire. All you got to do is write your own book. You'll get,
28:10
Steve Palmer: you get rich too. Well, uh, we should
28:14
Norm Murdock: talk a little bit about $7 diesel. This is another thing
28:18
Norm Murdock: that, that gets in my craw. So the same
28:22
Norm Murdock: party that wants $10 a gallon gasoline, that
28:26
Norm Murdock: banned coal, that killed the XL Pipeline,
28:30
Norm Murdock: that wants to force us into EVs, that
28:33
Norm Murdock: banned nukes and has nanny
28:37
Norm Murdock: thermostats in our homes, that's the party
28:41
Norm Murdock: that's complaining about high diesel prices? I mean, gimme a break.
28:45
Steve Palmer: Well, it's anything, any port. And look, the reason that the Iranians
28:49
Steve Palmer: are doing this stuff is because they know the midterms are coming up.
28:53
Steve Palmer: And this is a huge hotbed topic. Look, I mean, it's bad. Well,
28:56
Norm Murdock: Republicans are turning on Trump. Yes, it's bad. No question. It's bad. It is
29:00
Norm Murdock: bad. I mean, I don't like paying $7 diesel and I just had to
29:04
Norm Murdock: buy a bunch for my, for my Bobcat. Yeah. So it's, yeah,
29:08
Norm Murdock: it's a lot of money. Now I make a value judgment
29:13
Norm Murdock: and I go, well, the other side really doesn't want to help me with high
29:16
Norm Murdock: diesel. And this is a temporary thing until we
29:20
Norm Murdock: solve the Strait of Hormuz. Then maybe we should probably— I'd be
29:24
Steve Palmer: curious. Let's chop this up a little bit. Yeah. So under Biden, we had higher
29:27
Steve Palmer: fuel prices Not because a war in Iran,
29:31
Steve Palmer: right? But because— A policy. Because of policy that he implemented
29:35
Steve Palmer: here that had no determinate end. No. So, you know,
29:39
Steve Palmer: more regulation on the oil producers, more regulation on the refineries, more relation—
29:43
Steve Palmer: more regulation on exploration, more regu— shut down the pipeline. So,
29:48
Steve Palmer: right, whatever it is, like, so that's going to drive prices up, right?
29:52
Norm Murdock: And, and force people to do what They wanted us to— the
29:55
Norm Murdock: dreamers want, want everybody, oh, get on a COTA bus. Get on a bus,
30:00
Steve Palmer: right? Live, live, live in the urban areas. Yeah. Move back from the rural
30:03
Norm Murdock: areas. Yeah. You know, into the central city, live in a
30:07
Norm Murdock: rabbit warren, you know, that's, you know, 29 stories. We can
30:11
Steve Palmer: control your power, we control your water, we control utilities, and we control everything. And
30:15
Norm Murdock: we'll give you a little bike lane. Yeah. You can, on a winter day, you
30:19
Norm Murdock: can bicycle down to the courthouse, Steve, and get Completely soaked.
30:23
Steve Palmer: Now, that said, well, I've said it here
30:26
Steve Palmer: 100 times,
30:31
Steve Palmer: the bigger concern for me has always been, we,
30:35
Steve Palmer: meaning we can't let the lunatics take over. Now, people say, well,
30:39
Steve Palmer: Trump's a lunatic, but I would say worse, worse are the
30:42
Steve Palmer: El-Saids, the AOCs, that faction. The midterms
30:46
Steve Palmer: are more important Then that could have— Iran could have waited, I
30:50
Steve Palmer: think. Yeah. Um, but there are some strategic mistakes that
30:54
Norm Murdock: I think Trump has made, no question. And he seems not to care, or at
30:57
Steve Palmer: least he says he doesn't care. And I— and what he's doing with Canada right
31:00
Steve Palmer: now in this trade war, it's like, look, yeah, the timing of a lot of—
31:03
Steve Palmer: why are we monkeying with that right now? Look, drink your Molsons or whatever, who
31:07
Steve Palmer: cares? You know, it's like, it just seems so foolish right now.
31:11
Steve Palmer: And I understand there might be a reason behind it that makes some sense, Right,
31:14
Steve Palmer: on a particular— in a, in, in this little pigeonhole.
31:18
Steve Palmer: But we're— we have a bigger picture here. And, you know, now Trump's fighting a
31:22
Steve Palmer: faction within his own party. He's fighting the other party, fighting everything. So the
31:26
Norm Murdock: House— I don't know if you, um, you know, I know you're busy. You gotta,
31:30
Norm Murdock: you know, you, you have all these cases. I have the
31:34
Norm Murdock: luxury of, you know, I, I'm a
31:38
Norm Murdock: little less structured, I guess, in my schedule. So One of the things I
31:42
Norm Murdock: noticed, I think it was last week, over the top of Mike Johnson,
31:46
Norm Murdock: Speaker of the House, the House with Republican votes,
31:50
Norm Murdock: uh, passed a war powers resolution against Trump that's
31:54
Norm Murdock: now in the Senate, which basically is going to try to tie his
31:58
Norm Murdock: hands with Iran. Yeah. And, and, and, and the Republicans control
32:02
Norm Murdock: the House only, you know, a little bit, but they do control it, and
32:06
Norm Murdock: yet that passed. And maybe that's a good thing to
32:09
Steve Palmer: preserve maybe a few seats in the midterms. I don't know.
32:14
Norm Murdock: Well, I think a lot of it was that because you do have a lot
32:16
Norm Murdock: of people screaming on the Republican side, screaming bloody murder
32:20
Norm Murdock: about what they view as, oh, this endless war,
32:25
Norm Murdock: which frankly started February
32:28
Norm Murdock: 28th of this year. It's not endless.
32:32
Steve Palmer: It's not endless, but it was not Look, we've criticized here. This should have been
32:36
Norm Murdock: prosecuted. This should have been executed. Yeah, prosecuted, done. No
32:39
Norm Murdock: question about it. You have a plan, get it done. And we've said that a
32:42
Norm Murdock: million times. Yep. Just, and a lot of the generals, I'm
32:46
Norm Murdock: thinking of Jack Keane, who's been all over several networks, and
32:50
Norm Murdock: he's the chairman of the Institute of War,
32:55
Norm Murdock: studies war, games war. He was,
32:59
Norm Murdock: I think, one of the Joint Chiefs at one time. And he's, he's been saying
33:02
Norm Murdock: this since the war started. Get her done.
33:06
Norm Murdock: Get her done. Get it done. And he wasn't saying it from a
33:10
Norm Murdock: political point of view. He was saying it more from a tactical,
33:14
Norm Murdock: strategic point of view that just why
33:18
Norm Murdock: wouldn't you take out every single rocket
33:21
Norm Murdock: facility in the Strait of Hormuz? Why wait? What—
33:25
Norm Murdock: why did we lift up off the throttle? and give them
33:29
Norm Murdock: 45 days to get the Chinese and Russians in to help
33:33
Norm Murdock: them rebuild their drone program. And, and, you know, it's
33:37
Norm Murdock: like what Johnson did in Vietnam when he had the Christmas
33:42
Norm Murdock: truce with North Vietnam. They used that time
33:46
Norm Murdock: to rebuild their SAMs. Yeah. And then, and then what did we
33:50
Norm Murdock: get out of that? A bunch of B-52 guys got killed, you know,
33:54
Norm Murdock: when we resumed the bombing. It is. Well, look, it's always the same inaction.
33:58
Steve Palmer: Always results in just that. Inaction is an action. Yeah, it always results in,
34:02
Steve Palmer: in, in a delay of the outcome, right? So maybe
34:06
Steve Palmer: that's it. And if you're delaying the out— what is the outcome we want? Let's
34:09
Steve Palmer: go get it and be done. I am tired of Trump saying that there
34:13
Norm Murdock: are reasonable Iranians that want to end this and they're
34:17
Norm Murdock: begging for us to, to have a, a treaty. It's like, dude,
34:22
Norm Murdock: who are they specifically? Yeah. Like, I don't know who he's talking
34:26
Norm Murdock: about. Like, at this point, I don't believe him anymore. Yeah, I don't believe him.
34:30
Steve Palmer: Well, look, or maybe he— maybe it may be true that
34:33
Steve Palmer: he knows of some Iranians that are saying that, but they don't have any control
34:37
Steve Palmer: and it's not happening. So look. Yeah, right. They don't have the
34:41
Norm Murdock: agency to do what they're saying. Oh, we really want this. Time
34:45
Steve Palmer: to end it one way or another. It is time. Look, take your— if you're
34:48
Steve Palmer: going to take the loss, take it and get out. If you're going to take
34:50
Steve Palmer: the win, get it and get out either way. So I got to ask you,
34:53
Norm Murdock: Steve, how you feel. Again, now this is another Trump thing I never
34:57
Norm Murdock: would have done right before the midterm, even though I think he
35:01
Norm Murdock: has a First Amendment case that he is allowed. Yeah, I hate it. This— I
35:05
Steve Palmer: already know where you're going and I hate it. You know where I'm going. This
35:07
Norm Murdock: ban on CNN, MSNBC, and Politico. Just giving
35:11
Steve Palmer: fodder to— look, I don't agree with it. I do not agree with it. For
35:14
Steve Palmer: all that we've already talked about this, right? We let the other side in to
35:17
Steve Palmer: criticize us. because that's what we do. And does— I think, can Trump do
35:21
Steve Palmer: it legally? Maybe, maybe not. I'm sure the Supreme Court—
35:24
Norm Murdock: Probably. You and I don't have a White House pass. Yeah. So,
35:28
Norm Murdock: so, so is every citizen of the United States— we're all
35:32
Norm Murdock: guaranteed the right of free speech. Yeah. We're not guaranteed the right to a White
35:36
Norm Murdock: House pass. Right. But can he? So this is— here's what's
35:39
Steve Palmer: interesting. If you take your first year constitutional law, or maybe your
35:43
Steve Palmer: second year if you took it in second year in law school, There is something
35:47
Steve Palmer: called time, place, and manner restrictions on speech, meaning
35:51
Steve Palmer: the White House can keep you out. Look, Common Sense Ohio, look, I get it.
35:55
Steve Palmer: We have worldwide dissemination, and everybody would
35:59
Steve Palmer: love us to have a pulpit at the White House. What are they thinking? They
36:01
Norm Murdock: should be letting us in. But they're not gonna let us in. Does that violate
36:05
Steve Palmer: our right of free speech? No. But if, however,
36:09
Steve Palmer: the White House lets other people that are different than us in,
36:13
Steve Palmer: but not us. If the, if the, if the government starts to
36:17
Steve Palmer: implement time, place, and manner restrictions in such a way that it
36:21
Steve Palmer: discriminates against a viewpoint, particularly either directly
36:25
Steve Palmer: or even indirectly, uh, that becomes a First Amendment problem. And that's why I think
36:28
Steve Palmer: Trump is going to have some problems with this ultimately. Well, the— there was a
36:32
Norm Murdock: court that forced him to allow Jim Acosta back in the White House.
36:36
Steve Palmer: And Jim Acosta, boy, he loves himself. In term number 1, remember that? Yeah, yeah.
36:40
Norm Murdock: He But, but what I love about this, what I love about this is
36:44
Norm Murdock: the hypocrisy that our—
36:50
Norm Murdock: like, I understand the hypocrisy, but the, of course, the,
36:54
Norm Murdock: the mainstream media won't acknowledge it. When Trump was president
36:58
Norm Murdock: during his first term, all sorts of platforms and news
37:02
Norm Murdock: organizations banned him. He was banned from Twitter,
37:05
Norm Murdock: YouTube, Facebook, he was absolutely banned.
37:09
Steve Palmer: But it's fundamentally different unless the government is putting its thumb on that scale. Yeah.
37:13
Steve Palmer: So I do not— But for them to waive the free speech,
37:17
Norm Murdock: they banned him. Yeah, but they can, so— Yeah, no, I get that. But then
37:21
Norm Murdock: they're not really advocates for free speech. No.
37:25
Norm Murdock: That's what that tells me. Well, maybe, so— They're advocates for their free
37:29
Norm Murdock: speech. Well, sure, but they— But not yours. But they have every right to say,
37:33
Steve Palmer: we're not gonna publish anything Trump says. They have every right to do that. Yeah,
37:36
Steve Palmer: we were shadow banned, but that's not the government doing it. As soon as the
37:40
Steve Palmer: government, whether it's Trump or whether it's Biden, putting their finger on that scale,
37:44
Steve Palmer: that's different. I don't ever
37:47
Norm Murdock: really like correcting, but you will remember that Biden
37:51
Norm Murdock: sent the FBI. Well, that's what I said. So we were
37:55
Norm Murdock: shadow banned by the government. By the government, right. Yes, we were. You're
37:59
Steve Palmer: correct. As soon as the government puts its thumb on that scale one way or
38:02
Steve Palmer: another, whether it was Biden, and Trump tried to do it the other way, whether
38:05
Steve Palmer: it's Biden or Trump, I go ballistic about it. Okay. But if it's just Zuckerberg
38:09
Steve Palmer: saying, Norm, I don't like you, I'm not going to publish you, right, it's a
38:13
Steve Palmer: different story. But if the FBI, which they did, visited
38:16
Norm Murdock: Zuckerberg— Incentivizes him to do it. And what
38:19
Norm Murdock: was that, the protective language Biden threatened to—
38:23
Steve Palmer: Pull off, what's the statute section, whatever, the one that gives them
38:27
Steve Palmer: immunity from people posting publicly on their forum, right? So I get it.
38:31
Steve Palmer: That I have a problem with. But that's not the same as,
38:35
Steve Palmer: say, CNN— I'm tracking you. If CNN says,
38:39
Steve Palmer: we're not going to publish anything Trump says,
38:43
Steve Palmer: that is different than Trump saying, we're not going to let CNN in the White
38:46
Steve Palmer: House, but we're going to let Fox News and others in. Right. I think Trump's
38:49
Steve Palmer: got his— it's a bridge too far again for Trump. He doesn't need
38:53
Steve Palmer: this fight. He doesn't need it now. I will say,
38:57
Norm Murdock: that in response to their complaints, Trump's
39:02
Norm Murdock: spokespeople put out a list of
39:07
Norm Murdock: all the tropes, all of the hoaxes
39:11
Norm Murdock: that these 3 organizations put before the American
39:14
Norm Murdock: people as a rational basis for
39:18
Norm Murdock: saying why you're treating them differently in time, manner.
39:22
Steve Palmer: Time, place, and manner, right. Yeah. But that's not a— you're using some constitutional—
39:26
Steve Palmer: we should probably talk about this. There's different ways that we review restrictions on
39:30
Steve Palmer: things like free speech. Yeah. If it's viewpoint discrimination, if it
39:34
Steve Palmer: actually is something that is by intent discriminating against a
39:38
Steve Palmer: viewpoint, it gets the strictest of scrutiny. Well, what if the Ku Klux Klan
39:41
Norm Murdock: wants a White House pass and you say, well, no, you can't
39:45
Norm Murdock: have one because we disagree with your viewpoints?
39:49
Steve Palmer: In theory, if it's a valid time, place, and manner restriction, it can't
39:53
Steve Palmer: restrict based on viewpoint. But look, I'm using
39:57
Steve Palmer: this only analogously. Okay. I don't think it's going to get actually evaluated that way
40:02
Steve Palmer: because it's too diverse. I mean, there's too many people that need in.
40:06
Steve Palmer: So the restrictions are probably going to be something like, it's got to be
40:10
Steve Palmer: an organization that has X amount of followers or
40:14
Steve Palmer: influence. It's got to be an organization that's main— there's going to have to be
40:17
Steve Palmer: some definition. Otherwise, they couldn't validly restrict us. So the First Amendment
40:21
Norm Murdock: protects big media, not small media? No, it
40:25
Steve Palmer: has to, but that has to be a rational, that has to be some sort
40:28
Steve Palmer: of rational thing. But if they say, we're not gonna let CNN in because they
40:32
Steve Palmer: like Democrats and not Republicans, I think that's gonna be a bigger problem.
40:36
Norm Murdock: So like the White House press pool, from what I understand,
40:40
Norm Murdock: just lost their minds when Trump took over. And I
40:43
Norm Murdock: think, who's the lady who just left, uh, Levitt? Yeah, she would
40:48
Norm Murdock: let in people from conservative media like
40:51
Norm Murdock: Breitbart, right? And they would take a seat next to ABC
40:55
Norm Murdock: News, and the ABC News guy gets moved down one seat, right?
41:00
Norm Murdock: And she's like, well, they're a media outlet, so are you. Yep, we
41:04
Norm Murdock: don't care that they're smaller than you. You know what it is? I, I don't
41:06
Steve Palmer: know the rules for this. I don't, I don't know what it takes to get
41:08
Steve Palmer: in as a media outlet in the White House and how that's been implemented. implemented
41:12
Steve Palmer: over the years. But I will say this, my
41:16
Steve Palmer: lawyerly instinct tells me that if you are
41:19
Steve Palmer: excluding people who have historically been permitted there,
41:23
Steve Palmer: so ABC, NBC, CBS, CNN— There's some inertia.
41:27
Steve Palmer: Yes. And you're doing it because you don't like their viewpoint, that's going
41:31
Steve Palmer: to be a problem. And that DC circuit is extremely liberal.
41:36
Steve Palmer: But I think the— I mean, he's going to lose it. He's going to lose
41:39
Steve Palmer: it in DC. I think he loses it in the Supreme Yeah, probably. I, I
41:43
Steve Palmer: don't think— I, I— and now here, he'll side with them. I don't know
41:47
Steve Palmer: the, the standards to let people into the White House press room because I think,
41:51
Steve Palmer: I think the White House could validly say nobody. Yeah, they could.
41:56
Norm Murdock: Um, there wasn't even a White House, right, when the, when the First
41:59
Norm Murdock: Amendment was promulgated. They could validly say nobody, but there was no
42:03
Steve Palmer: one. Once they're letting people in, yeah. to exclude people that
42:07
Steve Palmer: disagree with you, just sort of— Even
42:11
Norm Murdock: though that has historically been— I might be wrong. I
42:15
Norm Murdock: mean, do you think Andrew Jackson put up with
42:19
Norm Murdock: like— No, I don't. But I don't think Abraham Lincoln certainly
42:23
Norm Murdock: didn't. He actually, he actually told the
42:26
Norm Murdock: US Postal System that they couldn't distribute certain
42:29
Norm Murdock: newspapers that, that were anti- And I think
42:33
Norm Murdock: in today's day and age, that would be struck down. Yeah. I think
42:37
Steve Palmer: it would be. It probably would. So I don't know the answer to this, Norm,
42:40
Steve Palmer: but I think it's— Woodrow Wilson. Another one. It's going to be— I think it'll
42:44
Steve Palmer: be evaluated as sort of a time, place, and manner restriction. Okay.
42:48
Steve Palmer: Meaning you can do it. So they can't let everybody into the White House
42:52
Steve Palmer: Press Forum because there's not enough room. It's not practical. It's not practical. Right. So
42:56
Steve Palmer: if you're going to eliminate people, it cannot be
43:00
Steve Palmer: based on viewpoint alone. I'm gonna guess it'll be something like that. Okay. And
43:03
Norm Murdock: they'll figure a cute way to say, well, you gotta let 'em.
43:07
Steve Palmer: It's sort of like this. I watched a video recently on YouTube
43:11
Steve Palmer: and it was a guy that was demonstrating
43:15
Steve Palmer: against abortions and he had signs. He had made
43:19
Steve Palmer: his foam board signs. Okay. And he was
43:24
Steve Palmer: standing on a public government or a state-run university.
43:28
Steve Palmer: And the university officials come up and said, look, we can't let you. You have
43:32
Steve Palmer: to leave. He's like, well, why? I'm on public— well, because your
43:36
Steve Palmer: signs, sir, have sharp corners and they're made of foam
43:40
Steve Palmer: board, and we have this rule that you can't have sharp corners. And I
43:44
Steve Palmer: suppose that the rule is based on some sort of riot that happened sometime
43:48
Steve Palmer: and those sharp corners cut people. It was probably something like that. Right, right. And
43:51
Steve Palmer: he looks over and he goes, yeah, but what about those guys over there, those
43:54
Steve Palmer: Jehovah's They've got the same signs, but you're not telling them to leave. They're like,
43:58
Steve Palmer: well, we're here to talk to you. So look, it's probably a valid time, place,
44:01
Steve Palmer: and manner restriction to say they can restrict how your signs,
44:05
Steve Palmer: uh, the shape of your signs for some reason. But as soon as you
44:09
Steve Palmer: start implementing that only against the speech you don't like, okay, now
44:13
Steve Palmer: it's an invalid time, place, and manner restriction. Okay. And now it's content-based and it
44:16
Steve Palmer: gets strict scrutiny. Okay. So it— I mean, I guess it's going to come out
44:20
Steve Palmer: something Yeah, he's not banning all the left-leaning
44:23
Steve Palmer: big media. Like, he didn't ban NBC, ABC,
44:27
Norm Murdock: CBS, and he banned these more radical— And
44:31
Steve Palmer: maybe, maybe that's a valid one. Maybe he can say, look, it's subversive to the
44:34
Steve Palmer: government that I want to run, and maybe he gets away with it. Of all
44:37
Norm Murdock: their full-of-shit stories. And maybe that's enough. I don't know. I'll be very curious to
44:41
Steve Palmer: see how it shakes out. Well, great, great First Amendment. We should get Rob Mueser
44:45
Steve Palmer: or somebody. We should talk about it. Okay. Greenland a little bit.
44:49
Norm Murdock: This is another one where we all
44:51
Norm Murdock: thought this was an
44:55
Norm Murdock: overreach by Trump. He would say, well,
44:59
Norm Murdock: we could just take Greenland. I could just send
45:04
Norm Murdock: one of our fleets and the Marines could hit the shore and we could—
45:10
Norm Murdock: what, something like 1% of the landmass of Greenland is
45:14
Norm Murdock: occupied. There's nobody in the other 99%.
45:18
Norm Murdock: And Trump actually said some pretty brash things about this
45:22
Norm Murdock: way back earlier this year. Mm-hmm. It turns out that this
45:26
Norm Murdock: document, this treaty that they just signed with Denmark and
45:30
Norm Murdock: Greenland says, even if Greenland
45:34
Norm Murdock: achieves independence, the people of Greenland, as well as,
45:39
Norm Murdock: you know, do I need to make a land statement here? the
45:43
Norm Murdock: occupiers from Denmark, that
45:48
Norm Murdock: Denmark and Greenland both agree that this is in perpetuity,
45:52
Norm Murdock: that this treaty is forevermore, that the United States has
45:56
Norm Murdock: basing rights. And also we have the right in
46:00
Norm Murdock: concert with Denmark to eject and
46:04
Norm Murdock: to prevent any adversary from—
46:07
Norm Murdock: overflights, from using bases, from establishing
46:11
Norm Murdock: facilities so that a Panama Canal situation won't happen
46:16
Norm Murdock: where, okay, the Americans have bases here, but China runs all
46:20
Norm Murdock: the ports. So that's not going to happen. We—
46:24
Norm Murdock: this is a pretty tight treaty and we're not paying a dime for it.
46:28
Steve Palmer: Well, I think I heard this and I just— This is a huge success. It's
46:32
Steve Palmer: a huge success, but I think it's even deeper than that, no pun intended. Because
46:35
Steve Palmer: doesn't Greenland sit on one of the biggest rare earth mineral
46:39
Steve Palmer: deposits in the world? Absolutely. Like,
46:43
Norm Murdock: again, Venezuela will help exploit your natural resources.
46:47
Steve Palmer: Right. So, so it's a win-win. Giving us control over that. Right, right. And I
46:50
Steve Palmer: think that's really what the fight was. Well, or
46:54
Steve Palmer: maybe equally. Well, like, the US doesn't have a
46:58
Norm Murdock: lot of icebreakers, uh, you know, like We're having
47:02
Norm Murdock: trouble actually patrolling, uh, the Arctic Circle.
47:06
Steve Palmer: Yeah. You know, and Russia has— still has their sub
47:10
Norm Murdock: fleet with nukes. China is more active up there.
47:14
Norm Murdock: And I think that there is a huge national security—
47:18
Norm Murdock: I mean, if you want to reach the United States quickly, you wouldn't fire
47:22
Norm Murdock: a missile from, say, Beijing all the way, like,
47:26
Norm Murdock: across the equator. you know, or whatever, you know,
47:31
Norm Murdock: what, what do you call that, longitudinally? Yeah. Or laterally?
47:35
Norm Murdock: You would, you would do it longitudinally, you would do it over the— Yeah, you'd
47:37
Steve Palmer: go over the top. Over the top. It's a shorter path. Yeah. So look, I
47:41
Steve Palmer: mean, it has, it has a lot of values, but that— I heard the rare
47:44
Steve Palmer: earth stuff, I'm like, all right, well, that now I understand. There's a, there's a
47:47
Steve Palmer: sly sort of hidden motive there that, that makes sense, right? We should have
47:51
Steve Palmer: control over that. Well, the Prime Minister of Denmark did acknowledge
47:55
Norm Murdock: that about the natural resources, uh, and said that that would
47:58
Norm Murdock: be, um— I mean, she—
48:03
Norm Murdock: it sounded like she was giving Trump's speech actually yesterday. Mm-hmm.
48:07
Norm Murdock: She, she agreed with everything that Trump has said in his speeches. And,
48:11
Norm Murdock: and, and she went on to say the United States
48:14
Norm Murdock: historically has been the vanguard and the, and the
48:18
Norm Murdock: has been this— has been the guardian of
48:22
Norm Murdock: freedom around the world, and we are
48:26
Norm Murdock: fully on board. We're full partners with the United States. It was—
48:30
Norm Murdock: yeah, it was— Look, if there's any doubt about it, just unders— just look at
48:33
Steve Palmer: the fact that they still exist and we didn't take it. Yeah, right. Because we
48:37
Steve Palmer: could have anytime we wanted to. We could have. And I, again,
48:42
Norm Murdock: you know, it's that bravado stuff that really. So you got Kaitlan
48:46
Norm Murdock: Collins and Jake, uh, Tapper, and you've got all these
48:49
Norm Murdock: crazies— Joe, Morning Joe coffee guy— you got
48:53
Norm Murdock: all these crazy people that said it was the end of the
48:57
Norm Murdock: world and it was the end of comity between nations and
49:01
Norm Murdock: that Trump just violated all these norms of international
49:05
Norm Murdock: whatever, and they're completely silent today. He's
49:08
Steve Palmer: negotiating like a bombastic New York real estate agent.
49:12
Norm Murdock: Yes. The real estate developer. Yes, he is. Like, I want, I want to, I
49:16
Steve Palmer: want it for $1. But at the end of the day, he's not Genghis Khan.
49:20
Norm Murdock: He's not doing any of this stuff. He throws it out so
49:24
Steve Palmer: extreme because then when he dials back his position, he gets what he wants. That's
49:27
Norm Murdock: right. At least I think that's his— I think, no, I think, I think that's
49:31
Steve Palmer: his— well, we've seen him for 6 years. This is what he does. That's what
49:34
Steve Palmer: he does. That's what he was trying to tell Iran at the UN speech. Right.
49:38
Norm Murdock: Well, I'll annihilate you. Or look at this little— We can
49:42
Steve Palmer: all be happy. We can all be— you can build beautiful stuff. And the problem,
49:46
Steve Palmer: back to Iran, the problem with it is they
49:49
Steve Palmer: don't— we're not— it's Plato,
49:53
Steve Palmer: Gorgias, or whatever it is. There's no
49:57
Steve Palmer: mutual agreement on terms with people like Iran because they're
50:00
Steve Palmer: ideologically fundamentally different than us. They don't
50:04
Norm Murdock: care about their own people. they don't care. They don't care about life the way
50:07
Steve Palmer: we do. It's different. It's different. And, uh, I, I think that's, that's his fundamental
50:11
Steve Palmer: mistake. Whereas like Xi, who's visiting the United States this week,
50:16
Norm Murdock: clearly he does care about his Chinese people. I mean, there's no
50:19
Norm Murdock: question. Now, he just fired a bunch of his military people. Or at least
50:23
Steve Palmer: he cares about wealth and success, which maybe is
50:27
Steve Palmer: good enough. Yes, you're wrong. Of course
50:31
Norm Murdock: they, they do forced organ transplants. Right, right, right. No, no, I, I,
50:35
Norm Murdock: I didn't mean that he's— No, but like, he's not what they don't want to
50:38
Steve Palmer: die. Yeah, like, just like the old Soviet Union guys
50:42
Norm Murdock: weren't great, but mutual assured destruction
50:47
Norm Murdock: with thermonuclear weapons, they took note of that.
50:51
Steve Palmer: Yeah, they didn't like that either. No, they didn't like that either. But Iran will
50:53
Steve Palmer: die. Yeah. And because they're going to see Allah or whatever it is, they have
50:57
Norm Murdock: a different— If the leadership there doesn't care about their people. They don't care about
51:00
Steve Palmer: that, right? At least that seems that way. I got to ask you about this
51:03
Norm Murdock: Clancy defense attorney who wants this judge.
51:07
Norm Murdock: So this, this lady, that there was a mistrial. I, I
51:11
Norm Murdock: assume that they're either going to work out an agreement or they're going to retry
51:15
Norm Murdock: this lady, either manslaughter or
51:19
Norm Murdock: murder 2 or some other, or maybe they'll stick with murder
51:23
Norm Murdock: 1, but, but whatever. We'll find out. But in the meantime, the
51:27
Norm Murdock: defense attorney who's got this nickname, the Shooter,
51:31
Norm Murdock: you know, whatever. He did a great job. Yeah. Well,
51:34
Norm Murdock: he wants the judge to closely question
51:39
Norm Murdock: this holdout juror, um, about like
51:43
Norm Murdock: why. And to me, Steve, isn't that
51:47
Norm Murdock: antithetical to our jury system? There is, yes. So
51:51
Steve Palmer: Look, there is a rule. Now, I don't know what it is in
51:54
Steve Palmer: Massachusetts, but there's a rule in common law called the Aliunda Rule.
51:58
Steve Palmer: A-L-I-U-N-D-A. Aliunda Rule.
52:02
Steve Palmer: And it basically says this: you can't— and if you're going to try to
52:07
Steve Palmer: challenge or impeach a jury's verdict, it has to come from the outside,
52:11
Steve Palmer: not within. In other words, you can't just start digging around on what the jury's
52:14
Steve Palmer: doing and impeach a jury's verdict. based on interviewing the jurors. There has
52:18
Steve Palmer: to be something outside. I've oversimplified it, but that's the general rule, and that's what
52:22
Steve Palmer: this lawyer is asking to do. Um, so look, I've had cases where I've gone
52:25
Steve Palmer: and talked to jurors about stuff. Yeah. Um, and, uh, it's
52:29
Steve Palmer: never really— it doesn't ever really pan out. Um, and I just
52:33
Steve Palmer: looked at the news. He's like, he wants an investigation into the lone
52:37
Steve Palmer: holdout juror who voted in the convictor. He's doing his
52:40
Steve Palmer: job, right? He's being a lawyer. He's being a defense lawyer. Our job is to
52:44
Steve Palmer: go out and fight the fight, you know? Yeah. He's doing his job. He's advancing
52:47
Steve Palmer: his position. He's taught— like, he's making legal arguments. He's pushing the bounds of
52:51
Steve Palmer: the law so the law can— there's this give and take. The judge needs to
52:54
Norm Murdock: do his job and tell him no. The judge will have to do is just
52:57
Steve Palmer: say no, and it'll go up to the court of appeals and they'll fight it
52:59
Steve Palmer: that way. My prediction on this case, it resolves somehow,
53:03
Steve Palmer: some way. It should not. But Steve, who would want to serve on a
53:07
Norm Murdock: jury then if you thought somehow you could be civilly
53:11
Norm Murdock: or criminally liable? Right, this is why the Aliunde Rule is in place. Let me
53:14
Steve Palmer: look it up. I mean, who the hell— you know, I've been on juries and
53:18
Norm Murdock: I'm thinking, what, am I going to get in trouble? Because, you know,
53:22
Norm Murdock: jury nullification, even though jur— even though lawyers
53:26
Norm Murdock: may not like that, prosecutors and, and defense attorneys,
53:30
Norm Murdock: depending on which way it goes, may not like that, but it's a thing
53:34
Norm Murdock: that a jury can do. I mean, they can, they can do it. So look,
53:38
Steve Palmer: the, the Aliunde Rule— A-L-I-U-N-D-E, I was correct Correct. Or maybe
53:42
Steve Palmer: I said A, um, is a legal principle in evident— in
53:45
Steve Palmer: evidence law stating that a jury's verdict cannot be challenged or impeached by the
53:49
Steve Palmer: testimony of a juror unless there is first credible evidence from an independent
53:53
Steve Palmer: external source. It's derived from the Latin word meaning, uh,
53:57
Steve Palmer: from the Latin word aliunda, meaning from another place or from elsewhere.
54:00
Steve Palmer: Ensures that a disgruntled juror's word alone is not enough
54:04
Steve Palmer: to overturn a trial outcome. Now, if there's payola, If the
54:08
Norm Murdock: mafia comes in, it would be from the outside. That's different. Yeah, it's a different
54:11
Steve Palmer: thing. That's a different— that's a different thing. So that's why you can't do it.
54:14
Steve Palmer: And, uh, in Ohio, there's an evidence rule under 606. I
54:17
Steve Palmer: mean, this is why he's sort of barking up the wrong tree on this one.
54:20
Norm Murdock: I think so. But he's making a point. He's doing it for other reasons. He's
54:24
Steve Palmer: pushing the bounds of the law in Massachusetts, I'm sure. And I think ultimately the
54:27
Steve Palmer: case will resolve. Some— I've heard some people speculate that he's
54:31
Norm Murdock: doing this in order to sort of
54:35
Norm Murdock: plow the field for the next 12 jurors that get selected.
54:39
Steve Palmer: That's right. So he's like, hey, hey, you better, you better
54:43
Norm Murdock: listen to what my case is and pay attention,
54:48
Norm Murdock: and because there might be a little pain if you decide
54:51
Norm Murdock: against my client. Yeah, which is the day— which is why the law doesn't tolerate
54:55
Steve Palmer: this, and it won't. And but it's good legal strategy. Look,
54:59
Steve Palmer: he's— the guy was a very effective court courtroom advocate. Uh, he did a very
55:02
Steve Palmer: nice job defending her. They said his closing statement wasn't good. I
55:06
Steve Palmer: didn't see it. Did a much better job, but that's at the end. Yeah,
55:10
Norm Murdock: I don't know, the jury might have already— who knows. But well, look, it was
55:13
Steve Palmer: effective whatever he did because it was 11 to 1 for acquittal. That's true.
55:17
Steve Palmer: So, right, that's where we are. He's just mad the one guy held out. Wanna
55:21
Steve Palmer: do some good and bad? Yes, sir. Um, so, um,
55:28
Norm Murdock: My hero, this is going to
55:32
Norm Murdock: sound cockeyed, but it's Gavin Newsom because
55:36
Norm Murdock: he told Jake Tapper while they were fly
55:40
Norm Murdock: fishing the most incredible thing, that if
55:43
Norm Murdock: Kamala Harris runs for president, he will not
55:47
Norm Murdock: run. I saw that. And I'm like, thank God.
55:51
Norm Murdock: Okay. If that's true. You're gonna take, you're gonna take yourself
55:55
Norm Murdock: off the chessboard so that this daffy
55:58
Norm Murdock: cackling—
56:02
Norm Murdock: I mean, that is gorgeous. Please let Kamala run against
56:08
Norm Murdock: Marco Rubio or J.D. Vance. That would be beautiful. Yeah,
56:11
Norm Murdock: they'll decimate her. That guy will say whatever he needs to say, whatever he thinks
56:15
Steve Palmer: that the media wants to hear at the time. That's what he's gonna say. My
56:18
Norm Murdock: zero, I would— okay, I was gonna go with Mom Donny, but we own
56:21
Norm Murdock: this. about this thing. So the head
56:25
Norm Murdock: of Iran is in town, is in New York. He doesn't want to arrest him,
56:29
Norm Murdock: but he wants to arrest Netanyahu. But I think the bigger
56:33
Norm Murdock: zero, and it pains me to say this because I kind of like
56:37
Norm Murdock: Vivek Ramaswamy policy-wise,
56:41
Norm Murdock: but he has come to the—
56:45
Norm Murdock: he's come to the Norm Murdoch set of policies on data centers.
56:49
Norm Murdock: like 5 months too late. He's behind in the polls.
56:54
Norm Murdock: And even though Amy Acton is
56:58
Norm Murdock: totally ineffective, I mean, she— but she is benefiting
57:01
Norm Murdock: from this red part of
57:05
Norm Murdock: Ohio that's at war with data centers. And I tried—
57:09
Norm Murdock: I've been saying this for months, that there are lovely
57:13
Norm Murdock: suburban and rural wives out there
57:17
Norm Murdock: and homeowners, some husbands, but mainly
57:21
Norm Murdock: women that would otherwise vote Republican because
57:25
Norm Murdock: they believe, you know, down the line on abortion, gun
57:29
Norm Murdock: rights, all kinds of Republican positions. But you're
57:33
Norm Murdock: building a goddamn data center in the middle of
57:37
Norm Murdock: their little town and it's going to make noise. It's
57:40
Norm Murdock: bringing in traffic. Mm-hmm. It's, you know, They don't see people from
57:44
Norm Murdock: Ohio going out there doing the construction. They see Texas
57:49
Norm Murdock: license plates and they're just having a meltdown. And
57:53
Norm Murdock: Vivek finally comes out last week
57:56
Norm Murdock: with a set of— he's basically said everything I've been saying all along.
58:01
Norm Murdock: Don't build the damn things next to homes. Number one,
58:07
Norm Murdock: make them completely energy separate from the rest of them.
58:11
Steve Palmer: Yeah, off the grid or supply their own, right? Okay, no noise.
58:17
Norm Murdock: Build them out in the diaspora somewhere, right? So
58:21
Norm Murdock: it doesn't become then we're against all data centers. But now
58:25
Norm Murdock: that's what it's become. Now it's— there's petitions. The
58:29
Steve Palmer: other side. And they're gonna bring it up again. It failed to be on the
58:32
Norm Murdock: ballot, but it's gonna come back. with this petition that's an
58:36
Norm Murdock: outright ban on data centers. And that's a mistake.
58:40
Norm Murdock: It's all about zoning. It's all about local people
58:46
Norm Murdock: either failing to have the tools or being unwilling to
58:50
Norm Murdock: take on these developers. They're either
58:54
Norm Murdock: intimidated or they're bought off. You know, something is
58:59
Norm Murdock: seriously wrong. It just stinks of RINOism. Yes,
59:03
Steve Palmer: it just does somehow, somewhere. You're too late. Maybe
59:07
Norm Murdock: he may win the governorship, but dude. Well, can you imagine Amy
59:10
Steve Palmer: Acton in charge? I mean, come on. Anyway,
59:15
Steve Palmer: well, look, my good and bad. The bad I was going to talk— I— maybe
59:18
Steve Palmer: it's not as bad as I thought now that we're talking about it, but I
59:20
Steve Palmer: do not like the Trump White House banning, banning press folks
59:24
Steve Palmer: who have been there historically. I don't like it because it reeks of content-based— What's
59:28
Norm Murdock: a tactical mistake? Call it a tactical mistake, but constitutionally it
59:32
Steve Palmer: reeks of content-based government discrimination on
59:36
Steve Palmer: speech. I don't like it. On the face of it, I have to agree with
59:39
Norm Murdock: you. I can't see it. However, as we
59:42
Norm Murdock: discussed— However it unfolds, we'll see. Maybe he can do it, maybe he can't. I
59:46
Steve Palmer: just think it's, like you said, at minimum, a tactical blunder. Am I
59:50
Steve Palmer: good? You know that historically
59:54
Steve Palmer: some teams are just so good
59:57
Steve Palmer: Like the Cleveland Browns. Oh, forgot. Who pulled it off
1:00:01
Steve Palmer: against the Tampa Bay Buccaneers with 2 minutes left. They
1:00:05
Steve Palmer: foiled the last-minute attempt by the Tampa Bay Buccaneers to go down
1:00:09
Steve Palmer: and win the game only because there was a storm
1:00:12
Steve Palmer: delay that sort of stalled the Tampa Bay dress. So Tampa
1:00:16
Steve Palmer: had to come out cold and win. But anyway, hats off to you, Cleveland Browns.
1:00:19
Norm Murdock: And Baker, I mean, he had an awful game. I mean, he just— That's right.
1:00:22
Steve Palmer: So anyway, Cleveland Browns, we know you're great. You just haven't shown it
1:00:26
Steve Palmer: to us yet. So what's their record, 1-1? Yeah, they're 1-1.
1:00:29
Norm Murdock: Okay. So that's about as good as they're gonna be all season. That's as good
1:00:32
Steve Palmer: as— 500 would be about as good as they're gonna be all season. That's the
1:00:35
Norm Murdock: same record as the Buckeyes? All right, so no, Buckeyes are 2-1. Are
1:00:39
Norm Murdock: they? What? Are they? Did they win a second one? Yeah, they won their
1:00:42
Steve Palmer: opener, then they lost to Texas and they won against Clemson. Who was the opener
1:00:46
Norm Murdock: again? Ball State, I think. Okay, so they played the Littlest Sisters of the
1:00:50
Norm Murdock: Poor. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. They should have beat Texas. And then they played the
1:00:53
Norm Murdock: Goodwill Team the, the, the third week. Yeah, yeah. So anyway, all
1:00:56
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1:01:00
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