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Fatima’s Message Is More Urgent Than Ever—with Ralph Martin · The Catholic Couple

0:00
SPEAKER_04: Today we have a special guest.
0:02
SPEAKER_04: We have Ralph Martin.
0:03
SPEAKER_04: He's a theologian, an author, a speaker, a teacher.
0:06
SPEAKER_04: He's been doing this for decades, sharing the word of God.
0:10
SPEAKER_04: But he has a couple projects that are new.
0:13
SPEAKER_04: I know him from Fulfillment of Desire, Fulfillment of All Desire, and then uh Church in Crisis.
0:20
SPEAKER_04: I have these two, but his newest book we're going to be talking about today has to do about a really relevant event.
0:27
SPEAKER_04: October 13th, we know is the final apparition of Fatima.
0:30
SPEAKER_04: He has a new book from Sophia Institute Press called Hearts Beating as One, The Spiritual Heart of Fatima.
0:39
SPEAKER_04: Nice.
0:40
SPEAKER_04: I'm looking forward to receiving it.
0:42
SPEAKER_04: Yes.
0:42
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
0:43
SPEAKER_02: I love that cover.
0:44
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, just got here a couple of days ago.
0:47
SPEAKER_04: Beautiful.
0:48
SPEAKER_04: Well, well, congratulations.
0:50
SPEAKER_04: I know they're they're like little children.
0:51
SPEAKER_04: Every time you get one out, you put so much time and effort into it when it comes out.
0:55
SPEAKER_04: Uh a lot goes into it.
0:56
SPEAKER_04: So congratulations.
0:58
SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
0:59
SPEAKER_00: I mean, some of these books are like I gotta commend you for well, this one, this one especially.
1:06
SPEAKER_04: I mean, I actually I I I heard about this from this was highly recommended.
1:10
SPEAKER_04: Uh I don't know, one of the talks that Father Mike Schmitz gave, and he said, like, this is a book I read every year.
1:14
SPEAKER_04: You have to read it.
1:16
SPEAKER_04: And it was funny because I really needed somebody to help me walk through all the saints that I was reading.
1:20
SPEAKER_04: And it was such a great job of how you put them all together and showed how they were saying basically a lot of the same things in different words and different like levels and how they did things, but you did a great job of distilling that down.
1:31
SPEAKER_04: It was really helpful.
1:32
SPEAKER_04: So I definitely appreciate this work.
1:36
SPEAKER_02: They just published the 25th, 20th anniversary edition.
1:40
SPEAKER_02: And Father Mike Schmitz is doing the uh introduction to it, and they kind of redesigned.
1:44
SPEAKER_02: Oh, wow.
1:45
SPEAKER_00: Oh, cool.
1:46
SPEAKER_00: Oh, very cool.
1:48
SPEAKER_04: Congrats, it's excellent.
1:49
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, congratulations.
1:50
SPEAKER_04: I know it's a it's been a great seller for for many years, but it you did the yeoman's work on really going through a lot of the saints and taking some of these complicated things, but also sharing their words in there.
2:00
SPEAKER_04: So if you haven't read this, definitely put it in there.
2:02
SPEAKER_04: If you struggle reading the saints and you know, treats of Avila and you know St.
2:06
SPEAKER_04: John of the Cross, and some of these people can be intimidating.
2:09
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, I struggled to read the words.
2:10
SPEAKER_02: Well, they just helped me get it.
2:13
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, totally.
2:14
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, well, we we appreciate it.
2:17
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
2:18
SPEAKER_04: Well, we uh we're really excited about our Our Lady of Fatima.
2:23
SPEAKER_04: Like I said, it's October 13th, this new book.
2:25
SPEAKER_04: We haven't read it yet, but I've watched a few of your interviews and your talks that you've been talking about Fatima for a long time.
2:32
SPEAKER_04: What made you sit down and put all this information that you've been talking about the the three children and giving these talks where you finally uh put it down on pen and paper?
2:40
SPEAKER_02: Well, I felt like a lot of the stuff being done at Fatima was focusing on controversies, like, you know, has the third secret really been revealed, or was Russia really consecrated, you know, and that's above my pay grade.
2:55
SPEAKER_02: And I don't think that's really the mainly the most important thing about Fatima.
2:59
SPEAKER_02: I think the most important thing is I think that's clickbait.
3:01
SPEAKER_00: I think that's people wanting to get views and wanting to get, you know, not getting to the heart and the substance, which is what we lack so much in social media land, right?
3:09
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
3:10
SPEAKER_02: So I just felt like that's not really the main thing this is about.
3:14
SPEAKER_02: It's really about these three little children who were ordinary Catholic children.
3:20
SPEAKER_02: They weren't, they didn't start off being saints, they were just ordinary Portuguese kids in the countryside taking care of their sheep.
3:28
SPEAKER_02: And they knew they were supposed to say the rosary every day, but they wanted to get back to their playing, so they came up with a really short form saying, Hail Mary, hail Mary, hail Mary, hail Mary fifty times.
3:38
SPEAKER_02: So that's that's their mentality.
3:40
SPEAKER_02: You know, they weren't like particularly devout or particularly holy, but then one of the things one of the things that most strikes me is in in 1916, uh a year before Mary appears Saddam, an angel comes.
3:54
SPEAKER_02: You know, they're they're playing with they're doing the stuff with the sheep and saying they're fast rosary.
4:00
SPEAKER_02: And an angel comes and and just basically says, you know, God has designs a mercy on you.
4:08
SPEAKER_02: And then he knelt down on the ground with his forehead towards the ground and he taught them a prayer.
4:13
SPEAKER_02: You know, my God, I believe in you, I adore you, I hope in you, and I love you.
4:20
SPEAKER_02: And I ask your pardon for those who don't believe in you and don't adore you and don't hope in you and don't love you.
4:25
SPEAKER_02: He said it three times.
4:27
SPEAKER_02: And um I I was very moved by that.
4:30
SPEAKER_02: You know, I actually start my morning prayer time right in this room here, you know, saying that prayer like that.
4:35
SPEAKER_00: And and and then our students uh at my school, our students say that in adoration.
4:41
SPEAKER_00: That's how they open adoration, our first through fourth graders.
4:44
SPEAKER_00: They say that prayer three times.
4:47
SPEAKER_00: Um I'm a principal at St.
4:49
SPEAKER_00: Uh St.
4:49
SPEAKER_00: John the Evangelist in St.
4:50
SPEAKER_00: John, Indiana, and our director of religious education, she does the adorations for the the smaller children, the first through fourth grade.
4:58
SPEAKER_00: And she starts it by explaining that what you just said, and she said, Imagine if you had an angel appear to you and told you to say a prayer.
5:08
SPEAKER_00: Would you say it?
5:09
SPEAKER_00: And they're like, Yeah.
5:10
SPEAKER_00: She's like, Well, an angel appeared to those children to give this prayer to you too.
5:15
SPEAKER_00: So let's all say it together, and we have to say one for every member of the Trinity.
5:19
SPEAKER_00: And and and it is very uh, it is a very powerful prayer because it really makes you acknowledge what your belief is, but then also acknowledge that not everybody believes, right?
5:31
SPEAKER_00: And that we need to pray for them.
5:33
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
5:34
SPEAKER_00: It's simple and profound at the same time.
5:36
SPEAKER_02: You know, your own relationship with God, then you're concerned about others, you know.
5:41
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
5:41
SPEAKER_02: Well, what a wonderful school, what a wonderful principal or teacher that that is that does that with the children.
5:47
SPEAKER_02: And children are really capable of a lot, they're really capable of really understanding spiritual things more than most people understand.
5:54
SPEAKER_02: And sometimes we sell the little kids short, but like Jesus said, unless you become like a little child, you won't enter the kingdom of God.
6:01
SPEAKER_02: So really taking seriously what little children are capable of in terms of believing and hoping and loving, I think it's really important.
6:10
SPEAKER_02: Later, the second time the angel came, I thought it was particularly important where he gave them some specific instruction that Mary then repeated the following year.
6:21
SPEAKER_02: So that the angel came the second time in the summer of 1916 and this time he was a little firmer.
6:28
SPEAKER_02: He said, What are you doing?
6:30
SPEAKER_02: Pray, pray very much.
6:32
SPEAKER_02: The hearts of Jesus and Mary have designs for mercy on you to offer prayers and sacrifices constantly to the Most High.
6:41
SPEAKER_02: Now, Lucia was the only one of the three children who ever felt comfortable asking heaven a question.
6:48
SPEAKER_02: You know, asking either the angel or Mary.
6:51
SPEAKER_02: Jacinta could see everything and hear everything, but very interestingly, Francisco could only see what was happening, and then he had to ask his sister and his cousin, what did Mary say?
7:04
SPEAKER_02: What's going on?
7:05
SPEAKER_02: So this is oftentimes the case today in the church, right?
7:09
SPEAKER_02: Us guys have to ask the women, what's up?
7:10
SPEAKER_02: What's going on, you know?
7:13
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, very much so.
7:15
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
7:15
SPEAKER_02: So anyway.
7:18
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
7:19
SPEAKER_02: So anyway, the angel, Lucia asked the angel, what kind of sacrifices should we make?
7:24
SPEAKER_02: And this is what the angel answered.
7:25
SPEAKER_02: I think it's really a very important part of the message of Tana, what's repeated by Mary.
7:31
SPEAKER_02: Make of everything you cannot sacrifice and offer to God as an act of reparation for the sins by which he's offended, and a supplication for the conversion of sinners.
7:42
SPEAKER_02: You will then draw down peace upon your country.
7:46
SPEAKER_02: I am the guardian angel of Portugal.
7:49
SPEAKER_02: That's pretty cool, isn't it?
7:50
SPEAKER_02: A country having a guardian angel.
7:52
SPEAKER_02: I bet we have one too.
7:53
SPEAKER_02: I think he's probably really busy right now trying to have a lot of that.
8:00
SPEAKER_04: The angels in the protection, like, you know, St.
8:02
SPEAKER_04: Michael of Israel, like all the different countries God has put angels in charge.
8:06
SPEAKER_04: I think so much what why people are fascinated with Fatima and miracles and these things, is that because there is so much going on that we can't see or hear.
8:15
SPEAKER_04: But God does give us those graces from time to time to show us, okay, there is some things here.
8:21
SPEAKER_04: It's not all that, or they wouldn't have to have faith, but he does show us these you know Eucharistic miracles or you know, the Mary uh her appearances and things like that, because it does help.
8:30
SPEAKER_04: Okay, whoa, okay, there is something else that our eyes cannot perceive, our ears cannot hear.
8:35
SPEAKER_04: And and usually these these messages are something profound, and when they happen, we should definitely take notice.
8:41
SPEAKER_00: It's pretty complicated for kids though, don't you think?
8:43
SPEAKER_00: Like, how old were those kids and why do you think they chose children to reveal these messages to them?
8:49
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, especially the heaviness of like sin and death and hell, you know.
8:53
SPEAKER_02: Well, you know what?
8:54
SPEAKER_02: You know, if if one of our religious education teachers dare tell children about hell today, they'd probably be removed from teaching and put on a blacklist.
9:04
SPEAKER_02: You know, and Lucia actually talks about that.
9:06
SPEAKER_02: She says, People are probably surprised that Mary would give little children, seven years old, nine years old, and ten years old, a vision of hell.
9:15
SPEAKER_02: But what it did for us was really showed us how serious life is and how important we need to really offer prayer and sacrifice for the salvation of souls.
9:26
SPEAKER_02: It really kind of showed us what's really at stake here.
9:30
SPEAKER_02: You know, there's really consequences to whether we believe and obey the Lord or not, eternal consequences.
9:36
SPEAKER_02: There really is a heaven and there really is a hell, and we really need to do something to get connected to Jesus and his church in order to be saved, you know?
9:44
SPEAKER_02: So it's just Mary was just saying, this is real, this is serious, this is important.
9:50
SPEAKER_02: And the uh the first time I ever talked to a class of school children uh at a local school here, a Catholic school, uh, the teacher asked the kids to write down afterwards what they got out of the uh the talk.
10:05
SPEAKER_02: And it's pretty amazing.
10:07
SPEAKER_02: I actually included some of these you know in the back of the book here.
10:12
SPEAKER_02: I'm just gonna read a couple.
10:14
SPEAKER_02: It's just what children are capable of.
10:18
SPEAKER_02: So this is what one child said.
10:21
SPEAKER_02: I will respond to Mary's message to the three children by always trying to make a sacrifice every day.
10:28
SPEAKER_02: Like the three children who always told the truth.
10:30
SPEAKER_02: I will too.
10:31
SPEAKER_02: I would like to get to heaven.
10:34
SPEAKER_02: And and then another child wrote, Thank you for the very inspiring talk.
10:38
SPEAKER_02: I loved it when you talked to us about the scripture verse.
10:41
SPEAKER_02: Unless you become like a child, you won't enter the kingdom of God.
10:44
SPEAKER_02: It made me it made me immediately want to offer my sacrifices to God.
10:49
SPEAKER_02: Later, all the boys didn't have a drink until after basketball practice.
10:53
SPEAKER_02: So it just, you know, it's just page after page, you really are these kids talking about two more.
11:01
SPEAKER_02: Thank you for coming to our school and giving that speech.
11:04
SPEAKER_02: Most of us were inspired to make sacrifices.
11:07
SPEAKER_02: It inspired me to make a sacrifice and sleep without a pillow.
11:11
SPEAKER_02: We were all happy that you came.
11:13
SPEAKER_02: I just want more.
11:15
SPEAKER_02: Your talk inspired me to do many sacrifices like the fat of my children did.
11:20
SPEAKER_02: When my brother was being annoying, I let it go.
11:24
SPEAKER_02: And when I was tea, and my mom said no, instead of eating one anyway, I did not eat it.
11:31
SPEAKER_02: Also, when everyone got a cone from outside and I did not, I offer it as a sacrifice.
11:35
SPEAKER_02: So anyway, just really amazing, inspiring.
11:39
SPEAKER_02: Little children get it, you know, when when they're told the truth about reality, when they're told the truth about heaven and hell, they get it just like the children of Fatima did.
11:49
SPEAKER_04: Anyway, I why do you why do you think that that the the church has lost that that obviously that we're losing that?
11:56
SPEAKER_04: That's why God has to send an angel, the blessed mother has to appear, because we haven't been preaching the four last things, the the death, the judgment, heaven, and hell.
12:04
SPEAKER_04: I I I've been I'm a convert, so I've been a Catholic for maybe 17 years.
12:08
SPEAKER_04: I think I've heard one sermon about hell.
12:10
SPEAKER_04: And I and it's I'm going through Matthew right now, leading a Bible study, and it's amazing how much of the scripture Jesus is talking about wailing and gnashing and teeth in hell.
12:20
SPEAKER_04: And it's like we're taught all the guys are talking about like, how come we don't hear these things?
12:24
SPEAKER_04: Like, it's serious.
12:25
SPEAKER_04: Like Matthew 25, it's serious.
12:27
SPEAKER_04: If you don't take care of the the naked, the principal, the the hungry, the stranger, like you are gonna be in eternal punishment, it says it's like, but we shy away from the fear of God.
12:39
SPEAKER_04: It's all, you know, the love of God, the love of God, but divorced from the fear of God and what the opposite is.
12:45
SPEAKER_04: I think that then we can really justify our sin because if we just if I just think about God's mercy before I sin, then I'll just go on sinning because I'm still, oh, God's just gonna forgive me before I sin.
12:56
SPEAKER_04: If I'm thinking about the just punishments that the Lord would give me, then I may take aback.
13:00
SPEAKER_04: Okay, maybe I'm not gonna do that.
13:02
SPEAKER_04: But I think that the pastors aren't doing us any favors by trying to water down the faith to get rid of Satan and supernatural things and and and heaven and hell.
13:10
SPEAKER_04: I don't think that helps.
13:11
SPEAKER_04: Where do you think that that came from?
13:12
SPEAKER_04: And and is there anything in connection in the time frame of why that happened for Fatima, why the angel and the blessed mother came to remind us?
13:20
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I think you're putting your finger on maybe one of the biggest, biggest problems in the church today is a silence about things that Jesus and the apostles actually told us to tell people.
13:33
SPEAKER_02: You know, Jesus said, you know, tell everybody everything I've taught you, you know, baptize them, make them disciples, and tell them everything that I've told you.
13:41
SPEAKER_02: But when Paul was uh leaving the elders at Ephesus and he acts the apostles, he said, Your blood is not upon my hands because I haven't held back anything.
13:51
SPEAKER_02: I've told you the whole council of God.
13:53
SPEAKER_02: And unfortunately, many priests and bishops can't say that.
13:57
SPEAKER_02: They haven't told us the whole council of God, they haven't told us the whole truth.
14:01
SPEAKER_02: And I actually wrote a book.
14:04
SPEAKER_02: It just came out in June.
14:05
SPEAKER_02: This never happens, it usually takes me four or five years between books, but this came out in June.
14:11
SPEAKER_02: The coming judgment, are we ready?
14:13
SPEAKER_02: And it completely addresses just what you were talking about.
14:17
SPEAKER_02: And I think it's just really almost like Satan's put a veil or like a shield over people, and they're not hearing what they need to hear.
14:28
SPEAKER_02: You know, like even like you know, St.
14:30
SPEAKER_02: Paul, 1 Corinthians chapter 6, he says, you know, don't let anybody deceive you.
14:36
SPEAKER_02: The immoral will not enter the kingdom of God.
14:40
SPEAKER_02: The fornicator, the adulterer, the person who engages in homosexual activity, the thief, the robber, the you know, it just goes on and on.
14:48
SPEAKER_02: And and Paul says, Don't let anybody deceive you.
14:52
SPEAKER_02: And there's like waves of deception, you know, in the world today and in the church today.
14:58
SPEAKER_02: And people are not being being warned about how these are really serious, serious sins, you know, and you really could be excluded from the kingdom of God if you don't repent of them before you die.
15:10
SPEAKER_02: You know, so yeah, I I think you're absolutely right, Bobby, that this is this is a huge problem.
15:15
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
15:16
SPEAKER_04: And if there's no sense of urgency, then there's no sense of urgency for us to evangelize or to tell people the gospel because, you know, hey, you can believe what you want to believe, it's okay, I'm okay.
15:25
SPEAKER_04: You're okay.
15:26
SPEAKER_04: I'm okay, you're okay.
15:27
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, just but if if if this message is preached, it's like, okay, well, this is serious for my for my relatives, my loved ones who who fall who are falling away or who don't go to church or who are living a sinful lifestyle.
15:38
SPEAKER_04: It's like, woe to me, but you know, those who teach, woe to them, it says that they're not teaching what they should be teaching.
15:45
SPEAKER_04: And it's not that we have to only do this.
15:47
SPEAKER_04: I don't think you're trying to say that either.
15:49
SPEAKER_04: I I I think that there is, uh, I actually have a book coming out where I talk about how to live the both and faith.
15:56
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, it it's uh it it's it's coming out by Ave.
15:59
SPEAKER_04: It's called Guardians and Prophets Living the Both and Faith in an either-or world.
16:04
SPEAKER_04: So it's like we have to preach fear and love.
16:07
SPEAKER_04: We have to preach both scripture and tradition.
16:09
SPEAKER_04: We have to preach, you know, the 99, but we also have to take care of the one.
16:14
SPEAKER_04: Like there's there's a both and to our faith.
16:16
SPEAKER_04: And it's so much easier to flatten it out and to bifurcate it and to just do the mercy of God.
16:21
SPEAKER_04: Divine mercy, who doesn't love the message of divine mercy?
16:24
SPEAKER_04: I that's one of my favorite things in the world to pray.
16:27
SPEAKER_04: But if I'm honest, I need to be reminded a lot of times about the fear of God.
16:32
SPEAKER_04: Because if I don't have that fear, that reverent, you know, I call it uh like a reverent intimacy with God, if it's just about God's gonna love me no matter what, and I don't revere him, if I don't have that awe, if I don't have that fear, then I'm not gonna act the way that I should, you know, and not that he's waiting to punish me, but he I'm there because I respect him and I have that relationship, then I don't want to disappoint him.
16:54
SPEAKER_02: Right, right.
16:55
SPEAKER_02: There's a text in Romans chapter 11 where it says, consider both the kindness and the severity of God.
17:02
SPEAKER_02: And for the last 50 or 60 years, all we've done is consider the kindness of God.
17:05
SPEAKER_02: We haven't talked about his judgment, his justice, his holiness, just exactly what you're saying.
17:11
SPEAKER_02: And because of so little fear of the Lord, uh that's why there's so much foolishness in the world and in the church, you know.
17:17
SPEAKER_02: And I think that's also why Mary appeared at Shadama and gave the children a vision of hell.
17:22
SPEAKER_02: She knew that it was going to be kind of like denied, basically, or ignored, you know, for for the church coming in the future.
17:31
SPEAKER_02: The same thing with St.
17:31
SPEAKER_02: Faustina.
17:32
SPEAKER_02: You know, what, 15 or 20 years later, the same thing.
17:36
SPEAKER_02: An angel took St.
17:37
SPEAKER_02: Faustina on a tour of hell and showed her this is real, told her to write it down so nobody could say nobody's been there, nobody could say what it's like.
17:45
SPEAKER_02: And the whole divine mercy thing has been hijacked in a certain way by the devil.
17:50
SPEAKER_02: You know, the the main message of divine mercy is certainly that God is so merciful that nobody should hesitate.
17:56
SPEAKER_02: The greatest of sinners are most entitled to God's mercy.
18:00
SPEAKER_02: But there's a lot of things that Jesus and Mary said to St.
18:02
SPEAKER_02: Faustina that says, look, if you don't respond to my mercy, you're gonna be lost.
18:08
SPEAKER_02: You know, so many souls are being lost, Jesus said one time to St.
18:11
SPEAKER_02: Faustina, because they're not responding to my mercy, they're not receiving my mercy.
18:16
SPEAKER_02: And so there's a huge presumption that God is so merciful that everybody will be saved, and it's it's a big lie.
18:22
SPEAKER_02: God is so merciful, but we have to respond to his offer of mercy through faith and repentance.
18:28
SPEAKER_02: I think we're on the same page, Bobby and Katie.
18:33
SPEAKER_04: Well, there's there's so much in scripture where where you can kind of be taken aback where he says he came for many.
18:38
SPEAKER_04: It never says, like throughout the Mass, he never says for all, because there that there's gonna have to be a choice that you're gonna have to accept that mercy and you're gonna have to repent.
18:47
SPEAKER_04: I mean, some of the first things Jesus said is repent.
18:50
SPEAKER_04: That doesn't mean you know, just just do whatever you want to do and I'm gonna forgive you at the end of at the end of life.
18:55
SPEAKER_04: Like, no, you're you're gonna have to, if you want to be in a relationship with me, there's gonna be rules and things, but the rules are for our benefit, not to be, you know, mean to us, but because he knows what's best for us.
19:05
SPEAKER_04: But there is there is still just punishment.
19:08
SPEAKER_04: If if not, then Christ went ahead and die on the cross.
19:10
SPEAKER_04: You know, there still has to be justice.
19:12
SPEAKER_04: We can't divorce again the both and justice and mercy are connected together, that one without the other doesn't make any sense.
19:19
unknown: Yeah.
19:19
SPEAKER_02: Well, you know, it does say first Timothy chapter two, God wills the salvation of the whole human race, that everybody come to a knowledge of the truth, but that doesn't mean that everybody is going to come to a knowledge of the truth, even though God would like everybody to.
19:34
SPEAKER_02: And there are a lot of texts like many are called and few are chosen.
19:38
SPEAKER_02: And then one of I think the most important text, Matthew chapter seven, broad and wide is the way that leads to destruction, and many are traveling that way, narrows the door that leads to life, difficult to road, and fewer are who are finding it.
19:51
SPEAKER_02: And I think the mentality of many of our fellow Catholics is just the opposite.
19:56
SPEAKER_02: Broad and wide is the way that leads to heaven.
19:58
SPEAKER_02: Almost everybody's going that way.
20:00
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
20:00
SPEAKER_00: Like, how can a merciful God send anyone to hell?
20:03
SPEAKER_00: And it's like, and that's the the whole thing.
20:06
SPEAKER_00: One of our basic Catholic teaching questions that we have at our school is um, does God send anyone to hell?
20:12
SPEAKER_00: And the answer is no.
20:13
SPEAKER_00: They choose it for themselves when they reject him, when they reject his, you know, call for their lives, you know, and it's it it is it is difficult.
20:25
SPEAKER_00: I can see where the church wants to lead with mercy, wants to reach those that have fallen away.
20:34
SPEAKER_00: Um, but if we don't lead to the truth, what are we accompanying them to?
20:38
SPEAKER_00: Right.
20:38
SPEAKER_00: So accompaniment is a beautiful thing, meeting people where they're at.
20:42
SPEAKER_00: But if we just stay there, then we're not calling anyone to anything higher.
20:48
SPEAKER_00: We're not, we're really just sitting in the mess, but not bringing them out of it.
20:52
SPEAKER_00: And they just came into our mess and brought to bring us out and to stay there.
20:56
SPEAKER_04: I think a big part too is that we're so divorced from death, not like our ancestors, where they were like you actually had to see a death out of it.
21:03
SPEAKER_04: It's rare for for for modern Americans like to even see death.
21:07
SPEAKER_04: Like every wake is a canonization, and every everything is like, oh, they were a great person.
21:13
SPEAKER_04: And it's just like there doesn't seem to be any connection to actual death.
21:16
SPEAKER_04: It's like we we have euphemisms like, well, they passed away.
21:19
SPEAKER_00: Like, there's no like tragedy behind it because we're that we should have hope, and as Christians, it gives us hope that Jesus died for us to open the gates of heaven, and what we should be doing is not canonizing people, but praying for their souls, but not assuming that we shouldn't assume anyone's in hell either.
21:38
SPEAKER_00: That's not up to us, it's not up to us to judge.
21:41
SPEAKER_00: But I think that I think that it is still important to teach these things to to to not glaze over the the truth about what these things are.
21:55
SPEAKER_00: But I do think that again, this is your both hand though, Bobby.
22:00
SPEAKER_04: You're arguing either that we shouldn't be like Baptist preachers in the corner saying uh turn and burn or you're going to hell.
22:05
SPEAKER_04: No one is saying that.
22:06
SPEAKER_00: We believe in purgatory.
22:08
SPEAKER_04: Thank God there's purgatory.
22:09
SPEAKER_04: But but I believe that yeah, we could lead with love, but eventually, if we leave out the hey, there is judgment for the world.
22:18
SPEAKER_04: I need to you need to know that there are everything that we do matters.
22:22
SPEAKER_04: Everything matters.
22:23
SPEAKER_04: And every choice you make is a big choice when it comes to your your your spiritual and and your salvation.
22:29
SPEAKER_04: It's like so we we have to do, and there's the reason why the Blessed Mother appeared at this time was because the world was in chaos.
22:37
SPEAKER_04: We had we were in the middle of World War I, and we we had the Spanish flu.
22:41
SPEAKER_04: You had all this these things going on, and I think that that that was the timing was the world is in chaos right now, and death is everywhere, like World War I, trench warfare and chemical gas and mustard gas.
22:53
SPEAKER_04: It was like it was a horrible, horrible you know, wait to die.
22:58
SPEAKER_00: So let's look at that.
22:58
SPEAKER_00: Let's take that.
22:59
SPEAKER_00: What if what if Mary was to appear to three children in 2026?
23:04
SPEAKER_00: What do you think she'd say to them?
23:06
SPEAKER_02: Same thing.
23:09
unknown: Same thing.
23:10
SPEAKER_00: Like there's no right.
23:11
SPEAKER_04: Like, is it really how much has actually changed?
23:15
SPEAKER_04: Have we listened to the message?
23:16
SPEAKER_00: What is it?
23:17
SPEAKER_00: Nothing, nothing is new under the sun or whatever that's.
23:19
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
23:20
SPEAKER_00: So yeah, what do you think the main message would be?
23:22
SPEAKER_02: We never got to the last part of what the angel said in the in the second application.
23:29
SPEAKER_02: So above all, accept and bear with submission the suffering which the Lord will send you.
23:35
SPEAKER_02: So it's sort of like accepting that life has suffering, accepting that life has pain, that uh our bodies fall apart, we have disappointing things happen, people die, we lose jobs, we have financial pressure, whatever.
23:50
SPEAKER_02: And so it's like joining our suffering to the suffering of Jesus, offering it in reparation for sinner, for the conversion of sinners, and then marriage repeats the same thing.
24:00
SPEAKER_02: So it these are these are simple things to do, and the sacrifices the children did weren't always extraordinary.
24:09
SPEAKER_02: You know, sometimes they gave gave up their lunch to first of all to the sheep so they could get back to playing quickly, but then they kind of grew in the purity of privation and gave them the poor children, or sometimes they didn't drink water on a hot day, or they didn't take their favorite fruit when somebody offered it to them.
24:29
SPEAKER_02: And then, you know, they they eventually did do some pretty pretty heavy-duty penances, like they found a a rope on the pathway and divided it into three and tied it around their waist as a penance.
24:42
SPEAKER_02: But then the next time Mary appeared to them, she said something that's very shocking and very kind.
24:49
SPEAKER_02: She said, God is pleased with your sacrifice, but he doesn't want you to wear the rope at night.
24:56
SPEAKER_02: I thought that was like sort of amazing.
24:59
SPEAKER_02: The Lord expects and gives grace to everybody to make sacrifices, but he doesn't want people to overdo it.
25:07
SPEAKER_02: Most of us aren't in danger of overdoing it.
25:11
SPEAKER_00: Well, I I I oh man, when you gave that talk to little kids at the school, um, I'm I'm wondering what those kids went home and told their parents, like, because my my experience with parents today, it's a little different.
25:27
SPEAKER_00: We have a lot of parents that want to actually take away every discomfort that their child will ever experience, right?
25:33
SPEAKER_00: And so we're looking at children going out of their way to be uncomfortable.
25:37
SPEAKER_00: You just said being um going on a hot day without a cup of water.
25:41
SPEAKER_00: My parents would come back and say that that's abuse um to their their child to not have a cup of course.
25:48
SPEAKER_04: They carry these everywhere they're gonna go, like they're gonna they're gonna be able to be hydrated in the road.
25:53
SPEAKER_00: I think our one of the really a big issue in our culture right now is this idea of taking away every every obstacle, everything that's difficult, every weight, even like almost taking away the opportunities to offer a sacrifice because comfort is the new God.
26:12
SPEAKER_00: And and we we are um almost trying as many parents try to eliminate all suffering from that.
26:19
SPEAKER_00: So it's it is it's almost I can see where the church would would come with that message to people in the pews with parents that think their job is to eliminate every obstacle and every um discomfort in their child's lives.
26:32
SPEAKER_00: That's that's like I can't believe the church is asking that of us.
26:36
SPEAKER_00: That's abusive, you know.
26:37
SPEAKER_00: It's um it's a it's a mindset.
26:41
SPEAKER_00: So I guess my my question, how do we, how do we reach that?
26:44
SPEAKER_00: How do we how do we um connect that there's a divide here, you know, of of of what you said, like what true life, life is suffering.
26:54
SPEAKER_00: We're going to suffer.
26:55
SPEAKER_00: And we can unite those sufferings with with God on the with Jesus on the on the cross, right?
27:00
SPEAKER_00: And make them be something that um can benefit um ourselves and and and others.
27:06
SPEAKER_00: But if we're going to completely try to avoid all suffering at all cost, that's a very difficult message then to to be received.
27:15
SPEAKER_00: To to receive, yeah, to be to receive that.
27:19
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
27:19
SPEAKER_02: Well, honestly, I didn't suggest that the children do any of these things.
27:24
SPEAKER_02: They were inspired by spirit.
27:26
SPEAKER_02: What Jess Jacinta and Francisco and Lucia did.
27:29
SPEAKER_02: They were they were inspired by the Holy Spirit, and they voluntarily chose to do things, never told them to do it, type of thing.
27:37
SPEAKER_02: So this is what saints are supposed to be.
27:40
SPEAKER_02: Saints are supposed to inspire us, and there are a lot of young people.
27:43
SPEAKER_02: Power of storing.
27:44
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
27:45
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
27:46
SPEAKER_02: I I never heard any complaints from the the parents.
27:49
SPEAKER_00: No, I was just more at what they even say they might deter undo it.
27:52
SPEAKER_00: Do you know what I mean?
27:53
SPEAKER_00: Like, well, that's not healthy for you.
27:54
SPEAKER_00: You have to have water, you know, like you have to become why would you do that?
27:58
SPEAKER_00: That's that's you know, hurting yourself, you know.
28:01
SPEAKER_00: Um I'm just saying, like undoing that mindset, it's a mindset shift.
28:06
SPEAKER_00: Our culture has embraced this desire for comfort and an elimination for any discomfort at all at any cost.
28:14
SPEAKER_00: It's become the new God, you know, and it's and it is a it's difficult to say this message to to anybody, even Catholics uh right now.
28:22
SPEAKER_02: So it's not so difficult to tell the message.
28:27
SPEAKER_02: It really isn't.
28:28
SPEAKER_02: Uh whether I'm speaking to adults or priests or seminarians or little kids.
28:34
SPEAKER_02: Everybody's inspired by these three children.
28:37
SPEAKER_02: If you get to the heart of it, if you don't get into the controversy, if you don't stay with the speculation, but if you show these three little children were invited by the Lord to grow in holiness.
28:49
SPEAKER_02: They were invited to obey the Lord, they were invited to obey Mary, and as they did it, they became transformed into saints, you know?
28:58
SPEAKER_02: And so it's just really that's what I tried to do in a book, Hearts Beating Une.
29:03
SPEAKER_02: The hearts of the three children, the hearts of Mary, the hearts of Jesus.
29:06
SPEAKER_02: Just loving together, loving the Lord together, loving each other together, and and that was transforming them.
29:13
SPEAKER_02: So I honestly I I haven't I haven't spoken to anybody about these three children and and Fatima without people being inspired, no matter whatever age they are.
29:24
SPEAKER_02: Now, I admit there could be audiences where I tried to do that, they kind of you know attacked me or something.
29:30
SPEAKER_02: I have had that happen, you know, when I'm talking about some of these other issues.
29:34
SPEAKER_04: Well, how much do you uh how much in the book do you go through like the description of of hell?
29:40
SPEAKER_04: That the kids they give a vivid description about what it looks like.
29:44
SPEAKER_02: I mean, it's not long, it's just one long paragraph, you know.
29:46
SPEAKER_02: So it's all in there.
29:49
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, I mean that that's like, well, that's scary.
29:51
SPEAKER_04: That's a scary story.
29:52
SPEAKER_04: Well, it's a scary place, and it's for it's for it's forever.
29:55
SPEAKER_01: It should scare you.
29:57
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it is scary, but we should we should be scared of hell.
30:00
SPEAKER_01: I mean, yeah, it sounds horrible.
30:02
SPEAKER_01: You know, yeah, I don't want to go there.
30:03
SPEAKER_00: It's hell.
30:06
SPEAKER_00: There's nothing scarier.
30:08
SPEAKER_02: Remember, Mary purposely, you know, Mary, who is perfectly in tune with God, perfectly loving her fellow human beings, felt like it was really important that these three children knew that life is short and only one thing is necessary getting with the Lord and staying with the Lord, and that there's consequences to not doing that.
30:35
SPEAKER_02: And one of the consequences is eternal, eternal separation from God.
30:40
SPEAKER_02: So people need to know that.
30:42
SPEAKER_02: Mary Mary felt like that was important, that even the young children know about it.
30:47
SPEAKER_02: And not too many years ago.
30:49
SPEAKER_02: You're you're too young to know this, but everybody used to know that.
30:52
SPEAKER_02: Everybody used to be taught that.
30:54
SPEAKER_02: Every kid knew about hell, and nobody made any any fuss about it.
30:58
SPEAKER_02: It's just part of the faith.
31:01
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, yeah.
31:02
SPEAKER_04: It's uh well, it's it's a message that obviously needs to be done in a way where it's it's thought out.
31:10
SPEAKER_04: Like I said, we can't just lead with somebody who's outside the church and say, well, if you don't come to church, you're going to hell.
31:15
SPEAKER_04: That's just not that's not a winning strategy on how to do it.
31:18
SPEAKER_04: We have to to unfold the teaching, but never speaking about it from the pulpit because you're gonna make a couple people upset.
31:26
SPEAKER_04: Well, I mean, it should, we we should make those who are comfortable uncomfortable, you know, and and comfort the afflicted.
31:32
SPEAKER_04: Like that's part of the the problems in the pews.
31:35
SPEAKER_04: We just sit there and we, you know, we we should feel uncomfortable.
31:38
SPEAKER_04: We should be moved from time, not every week, but maybe once or twice a year to talk about these things, even if it's gonna make a couple people upset.
31:46
SPEAKER_04: It should make a couple people upset.
31:48
SPEAKER_02: No, listen to what Father Carter Griffin says about preaching.
31:53
SPEAKER_02: He was the rector of the seminary in Washington, D.C., very solid seminary.
31:57
SPEAKER_02: Now he's just been moved to make pastor of a big parish, and and this is in the book, The Coming Judgment.
32:03
SPEAKER_02: He says, I am increasingly convinced that hell is the linchpin of faith.
32:10
SPEAKER_02: I know that sounds strange, but let me explain.
32:13
SPEAKER_02: Certainly, our faith is primarily about going to heaven and not just avoiding hell.
32:18
SPEAKER_02: It's about loving God, not just hating sin.
32:22
SPEAKER_02: It's about genuine joy, not just avoiding sadness.
32:26
SPEAKER_02: Nevertheless, the widespread denial of hell has undermined the very foundation of our faith, which is the incarnation.
32:35
SPEAKER_02: Jesus is called a savior because he saves us from something.
32:39
SPEAKER_02: If we don't need saving, then we don't need a savior.
32:43
SPEAKER_02: No belief in hell, no need for Jesus.
32:45
SPEAKER_02: It's as simple as that.
32:47
SPEAKER_02: Moreover, hell is not just a distant or theoretical possibility.
32:52
SPEAKER_02: Jesus would not have warned us so frequently about it, like he just said, if it posed little real danger to us.
32:59
SPEAKER_02: Hell is real, and you and I can go there.
33:02
SPEAKER_02: And hell intensifies above all the urgency of our preaching.
33:07
SPEAKER_02: You were just talking about that.
33:09
SPEAKER_02: It is true that we should not preach about hell all the time, but we should preach about it at least some of the time.
33:17
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
33:18
SPEAKER_02: I think that pretty much sums up a lot of what we've been talking about.
33:21
unknown: Yeah.
33:22
SPEAKER_04: 100%.
33:23
SPEAKER_04: And that's in your other book.
33:24
SPEAKER_04: What else do you touch on?
33:26
SPEAKER_02: I'd be happy to send you a copy because we're definitely on the same page.
33:30
SPEAKER_02: I think this would support and strengthen the things that you're concerned about.
33:33
SPEAKER_01: So just so I I would definitely I appreciate that.
33:41
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
33:41
SPEAKER_04: How much of that do you go into trying to dispel like what our Protestant brothers and sisters believe about what that will look like?
33:48
SPEAKER_04: Because it can be pretty confusing to even to Catholics who know the faith as far as you know what what the rapture can come in the rapture and the parocia and and all those kinds of things.
34:00
SPEAKER_04: Give us like a short little talk about the kind of elevator pitch about what the book is about and what we can learn as Catholics about the final judgment.
34:08
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
34:08
SPEAKER_02: Well, when you talk to Catholics about the coming judgment, they say, Oh, I don't want to, I don't want to talk about that.
34:14
SPEAKER_02: Scary, you know, don't talk to me about that.
34:16
SPEAKER_00: I say it's I'm I'm come I'm uncomfortable.
34:18
SPEAKER_00: That's what they say.
34:19
SPEAKER_00: That makes me uncomfortable.
34:21
SPEAKER_02: Don't be scared, be ready.
34:24
SPEAKER_02: You'll find out about it.
34:27
SPEAKER_02: Because he said, you know, when you see these things starting to happen, all the you know, stuff in the cosmos and all the confusion on earth, look up in joy because your salvation is coming nearer.
34:38
SPEAKER_01: You know, so the key is if you're in Jesus, you have nothing to fear.
34:43
SPEAKER_01: You know, perfect love cast out fear.
34:45
SPEAKER_02: You know, if you're connected, stay connected to the vine, you're gonna bear fruit, you're gonna get pruned, you're gonna bear fruit.
34:52
SPEAKER_02: And if you're in Jesus, the judgment is gonna be a judgment of reward.
34:58
SPEAKER_02: If there's still purification needed in our life, like like Katie said earlier, praise the Lord for purgatory.
35:04
SPEAKER_02: God's gonna do it.
35:05
SPEAKER_02: But even if you're in purgatory, you know, they talk about the poor souls in purgatory.
35:09
SPEAKER_02: I like to talk about the happy souls of purgatory.
35:12
SPEAKER_02: If you're in purgatory, you've made it, you're saved.
35:15
SPEAKER_00: I know I made it.
35:16
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I guess you made it.
35:18
SPEAKER_01: Yes, and God is loving you so much, He's gonna prepare you uh for the fullness of it that you weren't able to cooperate with enough on earth.
35:27
SPEAKER_01: So, you know, for a Christian can't live.
35:29
SPEAKER_04: And it's and it's and I I think a lot of it does have to do with just so many Catholics just don't know their scripture and don't spend time in the Bible.
35:36
SPEAKER_04: Like I said, we're going through Matthew 25.
35:38
SPEAKER_04: The whole thing is stay awake, be ready, don't be like the the the the foolish uh divergents who aren't ready.
35:44
SPEAKER_04: It's like so much of it's like be ready, be sober, be alert.
35:47
SPEAKER_04: It's like, okay, well, you don't got to stay up all night and be an insomniac.
35:50
SPEAKER_04: But I I love the the Augustine quote, it says, I'm pretty sure it's attributed to him, it says, treat your soul like you're gonna die tomorrow and treat your body like you may live forever.
35:58
SPEAKER_04: It's like we we want to we we want to be ready.
36:03
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, I just love that because it it's a reminder.
36:05
SPEAKER_04: It's like, yeah, if God does give me 90 years, I don't want to be out of shape and out of breath and and all those kinds of things.
36:12
SPEAKER_04: But more importantly, if I get hit by a bus tomorrow, I want to be in a state of grace.
36:16
SPEAKER_04: I want to be to have that sense of urgency that I'm in uh a state of grace, and if I if I do fall into sin, that I I I want to run as fast as I can to the nearest confession.
36:27
SPEAKER_04: And and I think that that sense of urgency comes from uh a love that I've I've I've I fell, my conscience speaks to me, but also the the fear of separation from God forever and our loved ones.
36:40
SPEAKER_04: And and you know, I I love the the C.S.
36:42
SPEAKER_04: Lewis, uh, what is it, the Great Divorce, where he kind of explains like what that looks like.
36:47
SPEAKER_04: Like hell, you know, we always see the fire and brimstone, that's fine, but it's those things that are already bad with us, like making it even worse.
36:55
SPEAKER_04: It's like I I wanna I want to go somewhere where there is no more suffering, when there is no more pain.
36:59
SPEAKER_04: It's like all this desire, this the fulfillment of all of our desire is in it's in heaven.
37:05
SPEAKER_04: It's like we we can never be fulfilled until we rest in the Lord and other Augustine.
37:11
SPEAKER_04: That just tells us that if that desire is within us, that there is something that can fulfill that desire.
37:17
SPEAKER_04: Just like if I'm hungry, there's food, the same C.
37:19
SPEAKER_04: S.
37:19
SPEAKER_04: Lewis argument.
37:20
SPEAKER_02: And I think Brother Bobby, amen.
37:23
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
37:24
SPEAKER_04: Uh Ralph Martin, you you took uh a ton of time with us.
37:27
SPEAKER_04: We do appreciate it.
37:28
SPEAKER_04: Yes.
37:28
SPEAKER_04: We have uh your 20, you said 25th anniversary of this.
37:32
SPEAKER_04: This isn't the copy, but the the fulfillment of all desire, the final judgment, and your most important, your Fatima book that we spent most of the time talking about, which is Hearts Beating as One, the Spiritual Heart of Fatima.
37:44
SPEAKER_00: Where can we find your books?
37:46
SPEAKER_02: Hey, Amazon.com is the easiest, you know.
37:49
SPEAKER_02: You know, you can go to our website, renewalministries.net, you can go to the publisher's website, but quite honestly, for most people, let's be real, most people go on Amazon.
38:01
SPEAKER_02: Maybe a drone will drop it on your head before you get home tonight, you know?
38:04
SPEAKER_04: Yeah right.
38:05
SPEAKER_04: And and and real quick, renewal renewal ministries, what can people find there that that that you do other than write books?
38:12
SPEAKER_04: What can people look forward to to checking out there?
38:15
SPEAKER_02: We have the longest running Catholic television program in the world on EWTN called The Choices We Face.
38:21
SPEAKER_02: Uh we just finished producing 26 new new programs.
38:24
SPEAKER_02: We have two Catholic radio programs daily.
38:27
SPEAKER_02: We do mission work in about 30 or 40 different countries depending on the year.
38:31
SPEAKER_02: We just had our leaders from all the different countries here in Ann Arbor last week.
38:36
SPEAKER_02: Uh we have a big local youth ministry with high school girls and high school boys.
38:41
SPEAKER_02: So just a lot, a lot of a lot of different stuff, just trying to help strengthen the church, help people come to Christ and stay with Christ, you know, that type of thing.
38:49
SPEAKER_00: So well, God bless you for all your work.
38:52
SPEAKER_00: You have a lot, and that's amazing the your contributions to to our our church and you know, to us all helping more people to get to heaven, right?
39:00
SPEAKER_00: Because that's what it's all about.
39:02
SPEAKER_02: That's it.
39:02
SPEAKER_02: That's it.
39:03
SPEAKER_02: That's what we're all about.
39:04
SPEAKER_02: So it's good to get to know you and know you're out there kind of saying a lot of the same stuff that I'm saying.
39:08
SPEAKER_02: It's good, yeah.
39:09
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, we're we're the symptoms.
39:12
SPEAKER_04: Did we just become best friends?
39:15
SPEAKER_04: I appreciate it.
39:16
SPEAKER_04: Appreciate it so much.
39:17
SPEAKER_04: Thank you for taking the time and good luck, best of luck.
39:19
SPEAKER_04: We'll share all the links for for for all your stuff and keep up the good work.
39:23
SPEAKER_02: Okay, you too.