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LET THE GIRLS GAME: The Future For Women in Gaming · Mini Scroll

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Over the past five weeks, we have dove into the celebrated
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and often chaotic world of women in gaming.
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We've seen how women navigate the industry, usually having to
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work twice as hard to get half as far.
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Not only are these female gamers overlooked, but they continue to
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face hordes of misogynistic harassment, whether it is
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through coordinated movements like Gamergate or just from
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everyday trolls. However, there are signs of hope
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for change. The legacy of the Games for
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Girls movement and increased dialogue about the portrayal of
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female streamers and characters in gaming indicate a shift in
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the right direction. As more women find their footing
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in the industry and establish their own safe spaces and
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communities, the world of gaming is gradually becoming more
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inclusive. Welcome to Let the Girls Game, a
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podcast miniseries where we explore the history and stories
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of women in gaming. Powered by Let's Sing, I'm your
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host Lauren Meisner, and for today, our final episode, we are
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discussing the future of gaming and how women will fit into the
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industry moving forward. And to help me dive into this
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massive topic, I am joined by Miss Deus Geek.
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Miss Deus Geek is an award-winning content creator
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and advocate for diversity in gaming.
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As an Xbox MVP, she actively promotes inclusivity, embodying
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the program score values of diversity, safety and fun and
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gaming. She also serves as a Women in
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Games ambassador and founded the nonprofit community group Women
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of Xbox, a global initiative dedicated to empowering female
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Xbox gamers. Alongside content creation and
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these ambassadorships, she founded Attack on Geek, an
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online entertainment hub sharing content on pop culture, gaming,
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and tech. So without further ado, please
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enjoy the final episode of Let the Girls Game.
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Thank you for having me and thanks for the great intro.
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No, honestly, you are so well equipped to talk about this
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topic today. I'm so excited to hear your
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perspective on the future of women in gaming and what this
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industry can kind of look forward to.
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So I guess just looking ahead to start right off the bat, what
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kinds of initiatives do you think will be most effective in
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promoting gender equality and inclusivity in the gaming
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industry? It's a.
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Really good question and I generally always go with two
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answers, education and representation.
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I think it's really, it's important that we educate the
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masses around the importance of equality in every industry, not
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just in gaming, but specifically in gaming.
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Educating the people that gaming isn't, you know, it's not just
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for boys, it's for everyone. And having that representation
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through marketing activities, through advertising, through
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collaborations that you see brands have with influences.
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It's all about seeing you represented by someone else, and
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I think being able to see that gaming is more than just a boys
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club. You're seeing, you know, people
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from all walks of life, from all backgrounds, from all kind of
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gender identities. I think that's such a powerful
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way to really help change the space and make it more
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inclusive. And how would you suggest or
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from your own perspective, how do you think the gaming industry
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can improve its methods for gathering and implementing
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feedback from women gamers and developers to ensure this future
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progress? Really, I think it's all about
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creating that safe space and having, you know, the right
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tools to gather that feedback, whether that's through private
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Discord channels or through an online forum that is really
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going to allow women and female gamers to come in and feel safe
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exploring their feelings around these different situations that
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they're in and really giving their positive feedback.
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And, and basically having that anonymity sometimes really helps
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as well. Because the biggest thing when
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it comes to gaming as a female is the minute you put yourself
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out there, it's like, or, or I'm going to, I'm going to get
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crucified for being female. And so, you know, I think having
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these companies, having a space that these women and female
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gangs go to can, you know, feel safe in sharing their feedback
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and then being heard as well. So having a forum, whether
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that's, you know, an online panel or a virtual call, like
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how we're doing now, you know, having someone listen to the
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feedback is so powerful in itself.
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Just being heard is so powerful. So I think, you know, there's a
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lot of ways that these brands can implement really easy
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strategies to just gather feedback and then take it in to
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the internal teams. Having your step by step process
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is to ensure everything is implemented properly because
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doing it what like quick and simple usually just ends up
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blowing up in your face, you know what I mean?
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So I really think this is so important.
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It's so important for women to have these feedback channels to
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provide the feedback and for brands and organizations to take
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that feedback and implement it in a systematic way that is
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sustainable long term as well. Yeah.
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And just going back to your point that you made at the
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beginning of your answer, when you mentioned how being a woman
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in gaming, you know, it just comes with immediate issues, I
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suppose, if you're not anonymous.
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It's so interesting that you say that because we talk about
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gaming every once in a while on this podcast on, well, this is
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the miniseries as part of a bigger podcast, Infinite Scroll.
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So whenever I cover gaming or gamers, anything that's
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happening online, I'll post like a clip to TikTok, for example.
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And I would say, you know, like 95% of my TikTok audience are
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women. And it will of course get pushed
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to a different algorithm. And my comments are flooded with
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men saying the most horrific things to me off of like a 115
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second clip. I can't imagine what it would be
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like for women who are like, actively engaging in this space
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so much deeper than I, you know, am with just that little TikTok
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clip. I'm sure it's so scary.
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And even reaching out to the women for this podcast, I would
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say almost every single woman that we spoke to said they did
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not want to talk about certain topics out of fear, which is so
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horrible. Yeah, no, I mean, I've had my
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fair share. Doing live streams in particular
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where it's not a controlled environment can be quite
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daunting. I was obviously had to train
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myself to just not look at the comments or have really strong
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moderators to really help block that from my viewpoint because
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it can really affect you while you're trying to live stream or
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even just going into a community that is 90% male.
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It's always daunting because it's like, I don't know, I don't
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see any other women. I, I don't know how to conduct
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myself other than just being a regular gamer and the minute
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someone says something that is inappropriate, it just, it
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destroys that experience for you.
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And I think that's just so soul crushing in a way for someone
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like me who loves gaming and I, I just want to talk to people
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who share my passion. Yeah, totally.
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Well, to that point, what qualities or changes, I suppose
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do you hope the next generation of gamers will bring to this
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industry and and kind of in what ways do you think that brands
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and companies can help facilitate those changes?
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I think we're starting to see that shift already.
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You know, the younger generation are more accepting and more open
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to having that diversity in gaming.
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I've seen young boys play with young girls on their Xbox and
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it's just a case of, hey, we're just playing games together.
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So I think that's that. That movement is already
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happening through the younger generation, through kids who are
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a lot more open to just playing games for the fun of it.
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And I think there's a lot more acceptance in there being, you
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know, diverse representation, whether that's through
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advertising, you know, instead of seeing a guy in a basement
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playing video games like in the old days, you're now seeing
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gaming is a lot more fun. It's a lot more chic.
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You know, you'll see like, a female gamer with a Switch on
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the bus or something. It's a lot different now and
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it's more accepted that that is the case.
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The way I see brands and and you know, organizations working to
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help foster this is really driving in on that
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representation. You know, having diverse
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characters in their games, having diverse storytelling and
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narratives, taking away that stereotype that, you know,
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female character in a video game has to look like the old school
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Tomb Raider. You know, it's, it's not about
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sexualizing and fantasizing these women characters, female
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characters, it's about just making stories that people can
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really relate to having female characters that look just like
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me or, you know, someone who comes from a very different
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culture. It's just regular people having
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stories and experiences that we can all share.
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So I think that's, that's, I mean, I'd like to think that
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that would be the way forward. And of course, going through
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working with like NGOs or going to schools and educating young
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children, run around gaming is for everyone.
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And you know, best practices when it comes to collaborative
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gaming. I think tapping into those young
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minds at an early age is really important already.
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They already have that mindset anyway, so it's not going to be
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very hard to try and shift that focus.
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So I am very hopeful for the future of gaming.
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Yeah, absolutely. And I guess given that you hold,
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you know, numerous ambassador positions, do you see mentorship
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programs in the gaming space, whether that's from a
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development perspective or even just teaching, you know, women
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about gaming, young girls about gaming, like you were saying, do
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they exist to begin with? And if not, do you see that
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moving forward? They definitely exist.
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I know a brands like Xbox do have mentorship programs that
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they've rolled out not just within their environment and
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their ecosystem, but they've actually opened it up to, you
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know, community members, regular gamers who just want to learn
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how to empower themselves. There was a movement around
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women and gaming at Xbox as well.
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And so it's all about fostering and educating and empowering and
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supporting women who want to be in the gaming industry, whether
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that's as a developer or you know, in marketing or whatnot.
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There's definitely plenty of organizations out there that are
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specifically targeting female gamers to help them feel like
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they belong, to help them see that representation and have
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someone who's done it already, talk to them about their journey
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and share with them the, you know, tips and tricks of how to
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make it in the industry. I think it's something that
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there is a lot of, but I think there needs to be a lot more
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yeah, conversations around it, like what we're having now.
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Because I don't think a lot of young girls out there realize
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that there are these mentorship programs, that there are these
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career development programs hosted by women, for women.
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And, you know, having these conversations, having brands
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publicize it a lot more, having, you know, having allies talk
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about it as well. You know, we've got a lot of
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male allies who can talk about it, who can talk to their young
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girls about it. I think that's really important
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to see a lot more of. Yeah, for sure.
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And I think one of the biggest probably challenges in this
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space becoming more inclusive and finding that representation
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would be probably around the language that is used to.
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I don't know whether that's to attack women or to speak about
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women in the space or even the way that women feel like
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language is weaponized against them.
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Do you see a shift in how people are starting to, or the
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community, I suppose, is starting to speak about and use
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language about women in gaming and what do you see for the
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future of that? I think it's still in, in that
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sort of Muddy Waters kind of area right now because whilst
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there's a lot of positive language being used, there is
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still that, you know, vocal minority, I like to call them.
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I'm still using language that might be a bit inappropriate
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when it comes to talking about female gamers.
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And you know, there's a lot of online harassment and things
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like that. I think there needs to be, you
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know, that moderation tools, having those safe spaces, having
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people from the top down talking positively about these inclusive
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practices, maybe offering incentives to have people be
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more positive about diversity and inclusivity and showcasing
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that, you know, gaming is really like I mentioned before, it's
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for everyone through their games, the design of the games,
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making it more realistic, making it more accessible to people,
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opening it up to people who, you know, potentially don't have
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access to video games. So for example, having, you
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know, I go, I go back to Xbox because I live and breed the
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brand, but Xbox have, you know, opened up their games to a
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variety of platforms beyond just the console.
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So now, you know, game in Asia who doesn't have a, you know, a
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console, but they have APC can play games that they never could
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before. So I think all of this goes
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around accessibility, that push for more inclusivity, that push
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for more community, because I think once you have that
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community feel and that's where people start to realize like,
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you know, we all speak a different language, but in
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gaming we speak the same language.
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And I think that's going to help foster a more positive feel and
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and change the way people speak about female gamers.
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Do you think there needs to be more onus on the, I suppose
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platforms that are maybe not taking moderation as seriously?
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A. 100% I think that, you know, at the end of the day, these
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online platforms really are cultivating the negativity that
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can happen online. And so having really strong
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robust moderation systems, having, you know, strong
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policies against harassment and toxicity online.
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There's a lot of, you know, things like deep fakes and all
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of that that have been posted online.
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There needs to be some sort of system to identify these things
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and immediately cut it out, whether that's through, you
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know, a human doing it or AI doing it.
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And you know, there needs to be more impactful methods put in
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place to make sure that the online space, regardless of what
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platform, is a safe one for everyone.
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Yeah, I'm very passionate about platform moderation and that
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whole topic because I really believe that it's some of these
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platforms have grown too big for even themselves to be able to
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control or contain. So it would cost way too much
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money for them to put in like the proper moderation that
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actually needs to happen. And so it's really like you were
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saying before, it has to come from the top down.
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Like there has to be proper legislation put in place to
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force them to do that until they'll spend that money.
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And unfortunately, the people making the legislation and all
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the laws and things around this, usually you have no idea what's
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going on. We're kind of at this very, I
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think, bizarre crossroads right now in technology and social
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media. But speaking to AI, as you
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mentioned, I wanted to talk about I guess, the future of
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gaming in relation to AI, because you really can't talk
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about the future of anything in tech without talking about AI.
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So I'm curious how you think AI will influence gender
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inclusivity specifically in games?
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And do you think that there are risks that AI might reinforce
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gender stereotypes? Yeah, I think it's it's one of
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those things where you know, it can go both ways.
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You can really utilize AI to pick out toxic behaviors and
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toxic language and make sure that you know, it is gotten rid
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of right away in terms of that moderations tools.
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But on the flip side, AI is still programmed by someone.
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And so at the end of the day, it really depends on what is that
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person's mindset going in and programming the AI.
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Do they have their own biases? And therefore does the AI, you
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know, have minimal things to pull from in terms of being more
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open and more inclusive and all of that.
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So it's a really interesting space and I, I don't know what
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the right answer is because AI is still a very wireless, is
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very powerful. It's still that Gray area where
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we don't really know what can happen.
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And relying on it 100% might not necessarily be the best way.
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But at the same time, it just helps cut down the time involved
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for a human, let's say, to go in and check every report that's
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been made or flagged for harassment and toxicity and all
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of that. So it's a hard one.
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I'm not really sure how I see it at this stage.
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I'm still sitting back and being cautious about it all.
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I know that that unfortunately with AI as well, there's a lot
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of possibilities for deep faking and creating technologies that
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might actually hurt people in the long run.
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So yeah, it's one of those things around I'm just
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cautiously waiting and seeing. I think that's kind of all we
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can do, right? I think even the people
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developing this tech are probably in a similar space,
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whether they want to believe it or not, where it's it's has so
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much amazingly positive potential, but also so much
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unfortunately negative potential.
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OK, so to finish off this interview, but also just this
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entire series, I mean, we've spoken a lot about the future of
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gaming and what needs to happen and kind of where you see things
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being positive in the future. What emerging challenges do you
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foresee for women in gaming, and how do you think the industry
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can proactively address these issues?
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I think the big one really is around that online toxicity and
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the cybersecurity challenges that come with being online.
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And I think really it's all about having those robust
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moderation tools, having strict guidelines and policies around
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what can and can't be done on those platforms, and having
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swift action. You know, when someone reports
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something, it really needs to be addressed as soon as possible
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because the longer things stay online, the longer the faster
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you can get disseminated. And so I really see those two
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things as being the really big challenges that women can face.
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And I think a lot of education around privacy, security, how to
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conduct yourself online, all of those things are going to be
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really important because at the end of the day, there are a lot
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of people who don't realize that there are some things you can
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and can't do online. Yeah, absolutely.
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That's a wrap on this miniseries.
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Let the Girls Game thank you so much to my amazing guests over
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the last five weeks who have shared their stories, their
19:33
challenges, and their triumphs with us.
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Thank you so much to Let's Sing for helping us bring this
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miniseries to life and platforming these stories that
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are just so important to talk about.
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And thank you to you, our listeners, for coming along on
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this journey with us for the last five weeks.
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I hope you learned something. I hope you enjoyed it.
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And if there's one thing I hope you took away, it's that women
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and gender diverse people deserve a safe space to be part
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of the video game community, to have fun, to express themselves,
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and to simply play without fear of harassment, judgement, or
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sexualization. That's it for Let the Girls
20:15
Game. If you liked this miniseries,
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please leave us a review. It would mean so much.
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I love you guys. And until next time, Let the
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Girls Game.