Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / Mom Caught on Video Throwing Newborn in Dumpster, Freezing Temps

Transcript

Mom Caught on Video Throwing Newborn in Dumpster, Freezing Temps · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:05
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace caught on video a cold
0:19
Speaker 1: hearted mom throwing her infant into a dumpster, hopping in
0:25
Speaker 1: the car and taking off. Now what, I'm Nancy Grace.
0:31
Speaker 1: This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us
0:33
Speaker 1: here at Fox Nation and Sirius XM one eleven. First
0:37
Speaker 1: of all, take a listen to this nine one one call.
0:41
Speaker 1: Hello that one. Yes, we just found the king in
0:45
Speaker 1: the trash behind Uh? Why did your sore? Where are
0:55
Speaker 1: we to mogway? We're behind hogs mar Okay, I'm showing
1:09
Speaker 1: your baby. We would have just found Chile. Yes, ma'am.
1:15
Speaker 1: Okay them behind them the hogs free. Okay? Is it
1:20
Speaker 1: cloth in you? Is? Does the baby have any clothes on? Yes?
1:28
Speaker 1: It is making noise. Okay, do you have a blanket?
1:32
Speaker 1: You're a good boy, and he is still alive. I
1:34
Speaker 1: believe he looks pretty good. You are hearing it us
1:37
Speaker 1: for nine one one call when strangers find a baby
1:42
Speaker 1: in a dumpster. Again, I Mancy Grace, this is Crime Stories.
1:46
Speaker 1: Thanks for being with us. All star panel members joining
1:50
Speaker 1: us today to make sense of what we know right now.
1:53
Speaker 1: First of all, Kathleen Murphy, trial lawyer out of North Carolina,
1:57
Speaker 1: at ms NC Domestic Law dot Com. Doctor Alan Blockkey,
2:02
Speaker 1: forensic psychologists, joining us out of Birmingham, specializing in criminal
2:08
Speaker 1: child custody and abuse cases. Paul Zyke, former police commander
2:13
Speaker 1: and author of Stop Him From Killing Them on Amazon.
2:19
Speaker 1: Doctor Bernard Cohen joining us today, Professor Pediatrics at Johns
2:23
Speaker 1: Hopkins Children's Center and author of Pediatric Dermatology. But first
2:29
Speaker 1: to our special guests, joining us, Mary Kate Hamilton, CBS
2:33
Speaker 1: seven anchor Joining us, Mary Kate, what alerted these people
2:39
Speaker 1: to a baby in the dumpster? Well, Nancy, they were
2:43
Speaker 1: dumpster diving and they heard what they described as mewing,
2:49
Speaker 1: and they thought that it was a kitten or a puppy,
2:54
Speaker 1: and once they pulled that bag out, they realized it
2:57
Speaker 1: was a baby. And I can't imagine they must have
3:00
Speaker 1: been feeling in that moment a baby in a bag.
3:04
Speaker 1: And of course, straight out to you, Paul Zeke, former
3:08
Speaker 1: police commander and author, When I hear bags in plastic bag,
3:13
Speaker 1: that opens up a lot of possibilities forensic wise, because
3:18
Speaker 1: that's a perfect medium for getting fingerprints a plastic bag, Yes, Nancy,
3:25
Speaker 1: And in addition to that, you've got DNA that could
3:29
Speaker 1: very well be present within that bag as well, and
3:33
Speaker 1: it's minerstanding. There was other trash in that bag, could
3:36
Speaker 1: be receipts, could be other investigative leads that investigators could
3:41
Speaker 1: use to determine who in fact dumped the body. But
3:46
Speaker 1: in this case, you know, really the video is the
3:48
Speaker 1: gold standard that broke Loca. It really is a speaking
3:51
Speaker 1: of receipts, you know, it can be argued the video
3:55
Speaker 1: is grainy. I can't make out a face. Who is
3:57
Speaker 1: this person? Kathleen Murphy. You know you're at nc Domestic
4:02
Speaker 1: Law dot com. But domestic is anything but the cases
4:06
Speaker 1: that you handle, you know, Kathleen Murphy. I've seen a
4:10
Speaker 1: lot of dime criminals. But I could absolutely foresee the
4:17
Speaker 1: mom who throws away this baby, or the woman who
4:20
Speaker 1: throws away this baby having her signature on a credit
4:23
Speaker 1: card receipt in that bag. More than that Nancy, I
4:26
Speaker 1: would imagine, because it was the baby, a towel with
4:29
Speaker 1: her DNA, the white bag with trash in it, and
4:34
Speaker 1: then she put the baby in the black back. So
4:38
Speaker 1: she left many many chances to be identified, even driving
4:42
Speaker 1: up in the light of day with her and the
4:45
Speaker 1: light of day without a care in the world in
4:48
Speaker 1: broad daylight, throwing away a baby literally into a dumpster
4:54
Speaker 1: like it's trash. Take a listen to more of at
4:58
Speaker 1: nine one one call our cut two. Okay, do you
5:01
Speaker 1: have a blanket or something you can wrap him in? Right? Huh?
5:04
Speaker 1: Do you have a blanket or something you can wrap
5:06
Speaker 1: him in? Yes? Man, he both in your blank Yeah. Okay.
5:09
Speaker 1: Can I have your name? Huh? Can I have your name? Please?
5:12
Speaker 1: He looks like he's doing Okay, can I have your name?
5:17
Speaker 1: You feel guys in vehicle cords? She said, Okay, can
5:21
Speaker 1: I get your name? Michael Green? A phone number? Uh?
5:28
Speaker 1: I don't if you don't have to wait the passengers
5:32
Speaker 1: moon or the driver's mood truck. But no, hold on
5:34
Speaker 1: one second. We are behind the mall. You're behind them all, yeah,
5:41
Speaker 1: right here behind ruffe okay, and that's the corner of
5:48
Speaker 1: Ut and Thorpe. Yes, ma'am, PA's ruffe old first they
5:54
Speaker 1: got you. Mary Kate Hamilton joining us from CBS seven.
5:59
Speaker 1: Mary Kate, what do we know about the area where
6:02
Speaker 1: the baby was thrown away? Like trash? Well, Hobbs, New
6:05
Speaker 1: Mexico is about forty thousand people, and it's one of
6:08
Speaker 1: those towns much like a lot of the towns that
6:10
Speaker 1: I cover, there's not much to see. You're never going
6:14
Speaker 1: to have a reason to visit Hobbs, New Mexico. But
6:17
Speaker 1: there are great people. And I think that's why this
6:19
Speaker 1: has rocked our community so much, is that now nationwide
6:23
Speaker 1: and even globally, people are hearing about Hobbs, New Mexico,
6:27
Speaker 1: maybe for the first time and in relation to this,
6:30
Speaker 1: but it's an oil and gastown, hard working people, blue
6:33
Speaker 1: color people, god fearing people, and it's just kind of
6:36
Speaker 1: a shame that now this is putting Hobbs, New Mexico
6:39
Speaker 1: on the map, you know, thinking about the location where
6:42
Speaker 1: the baby was discarded, still with the umbilical cord attacked
6:47
Speaker 1: to doctor Bernardo and professor of pediatrics joining us from
6:51
Speaker 1: Johns Hopkins Children's Center and author of pediatric dermatology, what
6:56
Speaker 1: does that mean about the age of the infant the
7:00
Speaker 1: umbilical core is still attached. Well, again, that the core
7:03
Speaker 1: tends to dry up and tends to fall off within
7:05
Speaker 1: the first twenty four to forty eight hours. So this
7:07
Speaker 1: tells us you've got you've got a newborn here, and
7:11
Speaker 1: in some ways thinking a plastic bag is crazy, but
7:15
Speaker 1: in a dumpster in some ways, it's somewhat protective against toxins,
7:19
Speaker 1: are toxic agents that might be child may be exposed
7:22
Speaker 1: to and that dumpster. The other thing is that the
7:24
Speaker 1: temperature there I think within the mid thirties, and so
7:27
Speaker 1: hypothermia becomes a super major issue and can certainly be
7:31
Speaker 1: toxic enough to cause death fairly early in a child
7:35
Speaker 1: this age. So actually being wrapped in a towel and
7:38
Speaker 1: in two trash bags in some ways can be somewhat
7:42
Speaker 1: protective and give you a little extra time, because hypothermia,
7:46
Speaker 1: like I say, in that setting, can be a major disaster.
7:48
Speaker 1: With me, Doctor Bernard Cohen, Professor Pediatrics and Dermatology at
7:52
Speaker 1: JOHNS Hopkin's Children's Center. Doctor Cohen, having prosecuted so many
8:00
Speaker 1: child abuse in child murder cases, I understood exactly what
8:03
Speaker 1: you were saying. But it took me literally grilling various
8:10
Speaker 1: medical examiners and doctors over the course of years and
8:13
Speaker 1: years and years to understand when you're saying things like
8:17
Speaker 1: hypothermia toxic agents. Can you break it down for us,
8:21
Speaker 1: Doctor Bernard Cohen, First of all, when you're saying hypothermia,
8:26
Speaker 1: that means when you get too cold, and you die. Yeah.
8:29
Speaker 1: I mean it's interesting is that even in the hospital
8:32
Speaker 1: setting the child is delivered in the delivery room, there
8:37
Speaker 1: are settings, even in normal hospitals, where the temperature may
8:43
Speaker 1: not be maintained adequately so that the temperature of the
8:47
Speaker 1: child can drop off fairly quickly. In a full term baby,
8:51
Speaker 1: this child was pretty close to full term or at
8:53
Speaker 1: term in ten day said to be somewhat protected because
8:57
Speaker 1: their skin is a bit thicker, they can handle a
9:00
Speaker 1: cold temperature. But if it's the temperature is if the
9:06
Speaker 1: child is not in a warm environment and delivery, if
9:08
Speaker 1: they're delivered at home or even in some hospital settings,
9:12
Speaker 1: the temperature can drop off and the babies temperature may
9:16
Speaker 1: drop as well, and this can put them at risks
9:20
Speaker 1: increased risk for developing infection, which can and not only
9:24
Speaker 1: just local infection in the skin or in the mouth
9:26
Speaker 1: of the face, but it can be internal and increase
9:30
Speaker 1: the risk death from infection. There are unusual there are
9:35
Speaker 1: funny changes that can occur in the skin. It can
9:38
Speaker 1: interfere with hard function and breathing respiratory function GI track issues.
9:45
Speaker 1: So it becomes very important to keep these kids that
9:49
Speaker 1: keep these kids warman. You don't want them hyper thermic
9:52
Speaker 1: is you don't want them too hot, but it's very
9:55
Speaker 1: important to maintain that that temperature. And again in most
9:58
Speaker 1: hospital settings are the child is delivered at home by
10:01
Speaker 1: someone who knows what they're doing. This is something that's
10:03
Speaker 1: going to be protected in this kind of setting. This
10:07
Speaker 1: could be a disaster. And this child survived here six hours,
10:11
Speaker 1: which is pretty amazing. Amazing time stories with Nancy Grace
10:30
Speaker 1: Dr Alan Blocky joining me, forensic psychologist doctor Blocky. My children,
10:35
Speaker 1: my twins, John Davison and Lucy, were born very very premature,
10:40
Speaker 1: and I remember in the nick you neo natal intensive
10:44
Speaker 1: care unit they were under Have you ever been to
10:48
Speaker 1: school cafeteria? And at the end they have things sitting
10:52
Speaker 1: there and they have a little kind of a yellowish
10:55
Speaker 1: orange light shining on it. I guess to keep it warm, oh,
10:59
Speaker 1: I think, I said. And at McDonald's too, anyway, they
11:03
Speaker 1: had the children, the twins, and a big she looked
11:08
Speaker 1: like a big plastic bin that came up to just
11:12
Speaker 1: below my shoulders and covered in clear plastic on the
11:17
Speaker 1: top with holes so I could put my arms into them.
11:21
Speaker 1: And they had them at very carefully temperature controlled and
11:28
Speaker 1: they had those lights over them to keep them toasty.
11:33
Speaker 1: And I'm just thinking about all the care that they had,
11:38
Speaker 1: Doctor Blockkey, all the care. And I remember the first
11:41
Speaker 1: time I bathed them. They're like ten nurses standing around
11:44
Speaker 1: me at the hospital and we got the water just
11:49
Speaker 1: the right temperature, and I laid down a little baby
11:52
Speaker 1: blanket so their skin wouldn't touch the cold sea, and
11:56
Speaker 1: were so careful bathing them. And here is this little baby, newborn,
12:02
Speaker 1: because you know, mom gave birth at home so nobody
12:06
Speaker 1: would find out she was pregnant. Throws the baby in
12:10
Speaker 1: a trash bag and into a dumpster for Pete's sake,
12:14
Speaker 1: And as doctor Bernard Cohen was pointing out, it was
12:17
Speaker 1: in the thirties. Yeah, I mean, I think everybody has
12:20
Speaker 1: an intense emotional reaction to this case because we're talking
12:24
Speaker 1: about a newborn little baby. As you described, we all
12:28
Speaker 1: want to take care of our babies, and we all
12:31
Speaker 1: have taken care of our babies, and when we hear
12:33
Speaker 1: a story like this, it's just so emotionally triggering that,
12:40
Speaker 1: like I said, everybody, everybody has an emotional reaction to
12:44
Speaker 1: this particular case. Nancy, I had a quick question jump in,
12:50
Speaker 1: is there any buddy on the line that can maybe
12:52
Speaker 1: speak to the fact that the court was still attached
12:55
Speaker 1: and maybe that helped his baby survive in that environment
12:58
Speaker 1: for those six hours. Huh is that? Epauls like, yes,
13:02
Speaker 1: it is. How would that help doctor Bernard Cowen or
13:05
Speaker 1: would it? I don't Again, it just tells you that
13:07
Speaker 1: you're dealing with a child that probably delivered within the
13:10
Speaker 1: preceding twenty four hours, and it's not going to be
13:13
Speaker 1: particularly helpful. The other thing that you mentioned that reactions
13:19
Speaker 1: to decrease environmental temperature are dramatically exaggerated if the child
13:25
Speaker 1: is small, for dates, so if you have a child
13:27
Speaker 1: who's very very light, not normal weight, and also if
13:31
Speaker 1: they're premature, they also don't handle cold environments well, so
13:35
Speaker 1: those are risk factors for sure. And speaking of the
13:38
Speaker 1: cold environment, take a listen to our cut five. This
13:42
Speaker 1: is April Meadow on the phone with nine one one. Hello, Hello, kid,
13:47
Speaker 1: can you tell me about the baby. He's still got
13:50
Speaker 1: his available Quarty's breathing cold and he's very like, he's great, like,
13:57
Speaker 1: he's very very very weak. Okay, so you have him
14:02
Speaker 1: wrapped in a blanket and the heater on um I
14:05
Speaker 1: got him in my jacket. He was I took that
14:11
Speaker 1: that wit um cow. That was really awesome. From there's whore,
14:16
Speaker 1: there's are there, there are the cops. We got Mary
14:20
Speaker 1: Kate Hamilton. You are hearing April Meadows too well. Speaking
14:24
Speaker 1: to nine one one, the guy that first heard the baby,
14:27
Speaker 1: got the baby out, gave the baby to April Meadow.
14:29
Speaker 1: She calls nine one one and she says, there was
14:31
Speaker 1: a wet towel wrapped around the baby. How's that going
14:35
Speaker 1: to help the baby? Yes, ma'am, and the towel and
14:38
Speaker 1: the baby itself were covered in dried up blood. And
14:42
Speaker 1: like she mentioned, it was freezing outside. It was near
14:45
Speaker 1: freezing temperatures, and so I mean there could have been
14:48
Speaker 1: a case where we got a little bit lucky because
14:51
Speaker 1: down here it doesn't get quite as cold as maybe
14:53
Speaker 1: if we were on the East coast or in the
14:55
Speaker 1: Midwest or up north. But I mean it was freezing
14:58
Speaker 1: and this baby still had dried blood. That is how
15:01
Speaker 1: And as we've mentioned the umbilical cord as well, it's
15:05
Speaker 1: just insane. And not only that, but that the towel
15:08
Speaker 1: was wrapped around the baby and the baby was already
15:11
Speaker 1: placed in a trash bag that had trash in it.
15:14
Speaker 1: You know, she was trying to cover her tracks, but
15:17
Speaker 1: it just didn't work. So you're telling me the baby
15:20
Speaker 1: was wrapped in a wet towel, in a trash bag
15:23
Speaker 1: and then another bag, Yes, ma'am. In the first trash
15:26
Speaker 1: bag that the baby was placed and already had trash
15:29
Speaker 1: in it. So in a trash bag full of trash.
15:32
Speaker 1: If somebody jumping in I'm hearing, I think it was
15:34
Speaker 1: Paul's eye. Yes. I was just going to talk about
15:37
Speaker 1: just simply the fact of how these cases are so different,
15:40
Speaker 1: because you know, a lot of times we have a
15:42
Speaker 1: hard time getting leads, getting you know, folks to step
15:45
Speaker 1: forward and give information, and in this case, you could
15:49
Speaker 1: see everyone just jumping out of their way to get
15:53
Speaker 1: the video of the vehicle too, then come forward with
15:58
Speaker 1: witness statements and the ability for the community essentially to go, hey, look,
16:05
Speaker 1: this is not just any crime. This is the worst
16:07
Speaker 1: crime that could have happened here. It involves this little baby.
16:11
Speaker 1: Everyone comes together that really, you know, from an investigative standpoint,
16:16
Speaker 1: doesn't happen very often. Man, You are so right, Paul's eye.
16:20
Speaker 1: A lot of times people not only don't do anything
16:23
Speaker 1: to help. They take videos on their phones of the
16:26
Speaker 1: crime as it's happening. Guys, take a listen to Hobbs
16:29
Speaker 1: in Mexico, entering Police Chief August Fons. This is our
16:33
Speaker 1: cut nine. The two males and females located at the
16:36
Speaker 1: scene advised officers that they were going through the dumpster
16:40
Speaker 1: looking for anything of value when they heard what they
16:42
Speaker 1: thought was a baby crime. They thought it may have
16:45
Speaker 1: been a dog or a kitten, so they removed a
16:49
Speaker 1: black trash bag. They opened it and they saw that
16:52
Speaker 1: it was a human baby. The female removed the baby
16:55
Speaker 1: from the trash bag and held him, trying to keep
16:58
Speaker 1: him warm while one of the male companions called nine
17:01
Speaker 1: one one. The male caller identified the baby as an
17:05
Speaker 1: infant male. The two males and one female at the
17:10
Speaker 1: scene have been identified as mister Michael Greene, mister Hector Jesso,
17:15
Speaker 1: and Missus April Nuttall. Their collective quick response to this emergency,
17:21
Speaker 1: including notification of nine one one, was absolutely pivotal and
17:25
Speaker 1: saving this baby's life. And also take a listen to
17:29
Speaker 1: our cut eight, also from the police chief. On Friday,
17:33
Speaker 1: January seventh, had approximately seven forty five pm flee County
17:36
Speaker 1: Communications Authority received an emergency nine one one call regarding
17:41
Speaker 1: an infant baby that had been found alive in a dumpster.
17:43
Speaker 1: They immediately dispatched Hobbs PD officers and Hobbs Fire Department
17:47
Speaker 1: Emergency Medical Services to the area of Thorpe and Ute
17:51
Speaker 1: Streets in a reference to this report. Police officers an
17:54
Speaker 1: e MS personnel arrived at the scene within minutes, and
17:57
Speaker 1: they located two males standing close to a truck in
18:00
Speaker 1: the alley behind the mall and a female sitting in
18:03
Speaker 1: that truck, holding and caring for an infant baby. The
18:07
Speaker 1: baby was wrapped in a bath towel that was dirty
18:09
Speaker 1: and wet and had dried blood on him, with unbiblical
18:12
Speaker 1: cords still attached. The baby was taken from the female
18:16
Speaker 1: by a Hobbs officer, was given to EMS personnel and
18:20
Speaker 1: was transported immediately to Covenant Health Hobbs Hospital. The baby
18:26
Speaker 1: was treated at Covenant Health Hobbs Hospital and later airlifted
18:29
Speaker 1: to medical facilities in loving Texas. The baby is currently
18:32
Speaker 1: in stable condition at Covenant Hospital in Loveck, Texas. Back
18:36
Speaker 1: to Mary Kay and Hamilton, joining us from CBS seven
18:39
Speaker 1: in Odessa, Mary Kate again thank you for being with us.
18:44
Speaker 1: Just fortuitously, there was a video surveillance camera that catches
18:51
Speaker 1: a woman pulling up in broad daylight throwing the baby
18:56
Speaker 1: into the trash up store just as you throw it
18:59
Speaker 1: away trash, hopping back in a car and taking off.
19:02
Speaker 1: You've looked at the video, tell us exactly what it shows,
19:06
Speaker 1: Mary kay Well, And not only did I look at
19:08
Speaker 1: the video, but I spoke to the man whose security
19:11
Speaker 1: cameras caught it. And you know, by the grace of God,
19:14
Speaker 1: these security cameras were pretty high definition. But when you
19:17
Speaker 1: watch her throw it in, it's as if she were
19:21
Speaker 1: discarding trash. It's not she didn't place the baby in
19:26
Speaker 1: the dumpster carefully. It's she wanted it to look like
19:29
Speaker 1: she was or this is my assumption I should say,
19:32
Speaker 1: but like she was throwing away a normal bag of
19:36
Speaker 1: trash and sped away as if you know, this crime
19:40
Speaker 1: didn't happen. And another thing I want to mention is
19:43
Speaker 1: when they were going through this footage, this baby was
19:46
Speaker 1: in the dumpster for five hours. They had to go
19:48
Speaker 1: all the way back and watch other people actually just
19:51
Speaker 1: scarding trash on top of this baby. Before they got
19:55
Speaker 1: to what they knew was this woman, Alexis Abula, throwing
20:01
Speaker 1: her newborn baby in the dumpster, and the surveillance footage
20:05
Speaker 1: caught everything right down to her license plate number. So
20:09
Speaker 1: once they had that, and like I said, it was
20:11
Speaker 1: pretty high definition, they were able to locate Avula pretty quickly.
20:16
Speaker 1: But when I spoke to the man who owned the
20:19
Speaker 1: store with the security cameras, he said, the most heartbreaking
20:22
Speaker 1: part was having to then see five hours of people
20:25
Speaker 1: actually discarding their trash and not knowing what was inside
20:28
Speaker 1: that dumpster. At the time, Crime Stories with Nancy Grace
20:48
Speaker 1: Mary Kate Hamilton's joining US CBS seven in Odessa. Mary Kate,
20:53
Speaker 1: what was the company that had the security camera rig outfitter?
20:56
Speaker 1: So it's essentially kind of an outfitter store. And when
21:00
Speaker 1: he was contacted by the police, they said, there's a
21:02
Speaker 1: crime scene. Are your security cameras working? And he said,
21:05
Speaker 1: yes they are, And as a business owner, his assumption was, oh,
21:09
Speaker 1: someone's broken into my business. And he told me that
21:12
Speaker 1: the second the police officers arrived, he knew it was
21:15
Speaker 1: something much worse. He could see it on the faces
21:18
Speaker 1: of the police officers. They were absolutely distraught, and from
21:21
Speaker 1: that moment on he knew this isn't a normal crime scene.
21:24
Speaker 1: This has to be something big. Hey, Mary, kay remind me.
21:28
Speaker 1: I want to circle back to you on something. But
21:30
Speaker 1: I just had an idea. You know, Kathleen Murphy joining us.
21:34
Speaker 1: She's a veteran trial lawyer joining us out of North Carolina.
21:37
Speaker 1: Sometimes Kathleen and I talk off camera and we feel
21:41
Speaker 1: like we've seen it all. But Kathleen, I know you
21:47
Speaker 1: have children, if they're wonderful. I will never forget the
21:51
Speaker 1: feeling I had when I first saw the twins face.
21:57
Speaker 1: I know, and I just can't believe a mother would
22:00
Speaker 1: do this. I mean, I will never forget it. I
22:04
Speaker 1: mean I was heading off to ICU and my lungs
22:07
Speaker 1: were full of blood clots. I could hardly breathe. I
22:10
Speaker 1: couldn't even sit up to hold them. I just put
22:14
Speaker 1: a kiss on my finger and put it on their foreheads,
22:17
Speaker 1: and we all went different ways in the hospital. But
22:21
Speaker 1: I just, I know, can't imagine putting one of the
22:25
Speaker 1: twins in a trash bag full of trash and throwing
22:30
Speaker 1: them in a dumpster. She put this baby in two
22:36
Speaker 1: bags and tied them shut. And I don't understand how
22:41
Speaker 1: this baby survived with no oxygen and being flung into
22:49
Speaker 1: freezing cold weather trash with a wet blanket. I didn't
22:54
Speaker 1: even think about that the throwing aspect, just throwing in landing.
22:59
Speaker 1: How does she do? The baby wasn't going to land
23:01
Speaker 1: on the very bottom of the dumpster metal, hard metal,
23:04
Speaker 1: or on something sharp. It's just the moments, Dodger, Blockkey,
23:09
Speaker 1: look helped me out here. You're the shrink the frame
23:14
Speaker 1: of mind of tying the plastic bag shut on top
23:20
Speaker 1: and throwing the bag in a dumpster. I mean, Mary
23:23
Speaker 1: Kaye Hamilton, does she even look in there to see
23:25
Speaker 1: where the baby would land? No, ma'am, Blockkey help me, so,
23:32
Speaker 1: I guess I'm I hope. I'm not going to get
23:34
Speaker 1: a whole lot of pushback, but let's let's emphasize this.
23:37
Speaker 1: She's eighteen years old. I'm not defending her. You are it? No,
23:44
Speaker 1: it's the baby, Blockkey. Oh No, I'm just saying the
23:48
Speaker 1: eighteen year old girl has an immature, non fully developed brains.
23:54
Speaker 1: She's she's a kid, and I think from a mental tosstandpoint,
23:59
Speaker 1: we to all use that context. No, she is not
24:03
Speaker 1: a kid. And if you don't believe me, that's the
24:06
Speaker 1: us Supreme Court, and they'll tell you she's not a kid.
24:10
Speaker 1: This teen girl who is a few months away from
24:14
Speaker 1: nineteen woman. Teen woman had the baby in secret. That
24:20
Speaker 1: is why the blood was all over the tower, because
24:23
Speaker 1: she was trying to hide it. She is now claiming
24:26
Speaker 1: she didn't know she was pregnant, right, okay, and I
24:32
Speaker 1: had been open about her pregnancy at school and then
24:37
Speaker 1: stopped coming to class just before Christmas break. She did
24:40
Speaker 1: everything she could people about it to hide the pregnancy
24:45
Speaker 1: and then try to kill the baby. Blocky, I'm I'm
24:52
Speaker 1: a little repulsed by you right now because tried to
24:59
Speaker 1: kill the baby. I understand that I'm not defending it.
25:04
Speaker 1: I'm simply saying no, I'm I'm saying I'm trying to
25:09
Speaker 1: look at it. I would have listened to you a
25:12
Speaker 1: tiny bit more when I was eighteen. I was already
25:16
Speaker 1: holding down a job and trying to go to school
25:19
Speaker 1: at the same time. You know, Niue, No, not really
25:25
Speaker 1: the same thing. What jump in. I hear I did
25:28
Speaker 1: the best I could in so many abuse of situations.
25:32
Speaker 1: And I heard that from her mother, and I hear
25:35
Speaker 1: that as an excuse. And we have to stop taking
25:40
Speaker 1: in the other the other thoughts when we have vulnerable victims.
25:47
Speaker 1: If this baby wasn't so vulnerable, I may even hear
25:51
Speaker 1: it a little bit better. But we cannot open that
25:56
Speaker 1: door and allow these excuses to continue. And you have
26:00
Speaker 1: such vulnerable victim guys, take a listen to Eric at twelve.
26:04
Speaker 1: This is reporter Julie friend at kob Joe imb really
26:09
Speaker 1: owns rigs, outfitters and hobbs. He says police called him
26:13
Speaker 1: Friday night with a request to view his surveillance footage.
26:16
Speaker 1: I said, what is it we are looking for? As
26:21
Speaker 1: he goes, We're looking for somebody that dumped a black
26:24
Speaker 1: garbage bag in your dumpster. And I turned around as
26:27
Speaker 1: I please don't tell me was a baby. The video
26:30
Speaker 1: shows who is believed to be Avila leaving the dumpster
26:33
Speaker 1: at two Friday afternoon. Six hours later, you can see
26:37
Speaker 1: three people searching through the same dumpster. They pull out
26:41
Speaker 1: a black bag and start looking through it. Seconds later,
26:45
Speaker 1: a woman reacts to what's inside and starts opening the bag.
26:49
Speaker 1: She pulls out the newborn baby, still alive, and tends
26:53
Speaker 1: to it. Once the child is wrapped up, she brings
26:56
Speaker 1: it to their truck while a man in the group
26:58
Speaker 1: is on the phone. They pulled the truck away from
27:00
Speaker 1: the dumpster and you can see police and an ambulance
27:04
Speaker 1: arrive minutes later. Now take a listen to our cut ten.
27:08
Speaker 1: This is the police chief. They searched through the store
27:12
Speaker 1: video surveillance, which showed footage at approximately two PM of
27:16
Speaker 1: a white Volkswagen Jetta pulling up to the dumpster. A
27:20
Speaker 1: female later identified as Alexis Avola exited the vehicle, removed
27:26
Speaker 1: a black trash bag from the rear seat of the Jetta,
27:29
Speaker 1: and then threw it into the dumpster. The female immediately
27:34
Speaker 1: got back into the Jetta and drove south through the alley.
27:38
Speaker 1: Based on the timelines in the surveillance video, the infant
27:41
Speaker 1: was in the dumpster for approximately six hours. Detectives were
27:46
Speaker 1: able to get a possible license plate of New Mexico
27:49
Speaker 1: AXM S sixty seven from the surveillance video, which was
27:54
Speaker 1: registered to Martha A Villa of Hobbs. Detectives and FOE
27:58
Speaker 1: officers went to this address contacted Miss Martha Villa and
28:02
Speaker 1: mister Domingo A Villa, who advised that their daughter, Alexis Villa,
28:06
Speaker 1: drove that vehicle and that she was asleep in the
28:09
Speaker 1: house straight back to Mary Kate Hamilton joining us CBS
28:13
Speaker 1: seven in Odessa. So this young woman was tracked down
28:20
Speaker 1: through her tag, the car tag. Is that correct? Yes,
28:24
Speaker 1: What if anything did she tell police? Well, she told
28:27
Speaker 1: she did admit to throwing her baby in the dumpster,
28:32
Speaker 1: and that wasn't an admittance. But she also at her
28:37
Speaker 1: arrayment hearing yesterday, they asked what did you think was
28:40
Speaker 1: going to happen to the baby? And reportedly she just
28:45
Speaker 1: remained silent and looked down. And I think it's not
28:52
Speaker 1: hard to gather what she thought would happen. Nancy, real quick,
28:57
Speaker 1: I just wanted to step in anybody who wanted to
28:59
Speaker 1: defend her actions. Keeping in mind New Mexico as a
29:03
Speaker 1: safe haven law that is one of the most lenient
29:05
Speaker 1: laws in the country. It allows for a mother to
29:10
Speaker 1: drop off her child at any fire station, police station
29:15
Speaker 1: within ninety days of the birth, no questions asked, no repercussions,
29:21
Speaker 1: to turn the baby over to stop things from just
29:25
Speaker 1: like this from happening. And that obviously was in place
29:29
Speaker 1: here and it still happened. So she had options. She
29:33
Speaker 1: had a lot of options as she had to support
29:35
Speaker 1: a parents. Time stories with Nancy grace. This child, this
29:56
Speaker 1: infant with the umbilical cord still attached, was in that
29:59
Speaker 1: dupster for six hours with people throwing trash on top.
30:04
Speaker 1: As Mary Kate Hamilton was describing the video, what if
30:08
Speaker 1: someone had thrown in an old chair or a very
30:12
Speaker 1: heavy bag of trash on top of the baby so
30:16
Speaker 1: it couldn't breathe, the baby would have died right there
30:20
Speaker 1: in a trash dump thanks to Mommy. Now you are
30:25
Speaker 1: hearing doctor Allan Blokey, PhD. And if I'm ever charged
30:30
Speaker 1: with murder, I'm certainly going to call him because he's
30:34
Speaker 1: making a great case for the murder mom. But let
30:38
Speaker 1: me point out how much she's lying. Take a listen
30:43
Speaker 1: to our cut eleven. Alexis was given her Miranda warnings
30:47
Speaker 1: that she did agree to speaking with detectives. During the interviews,
30:50
Speaker 1: she said she was not aware because she was pregnant
30:53
Speaker 1: until January sixth, twenty two, when she sought medical attention
30:58
Speaker 1: for abdominal pain and constipation. She explained it on Friday,
31:03
Speaker 1: January seventh, she was experiencing stomach pain and unexpectedly gave birth.
31:09
Speaker 1: She further explained that she panicked did not know what
31:12
Speaker 1: to do or who to call. She stated that she
31:14
Speaker 1: then cut the umbilical cord, wrapped the baby in a towel,
31:18
Speaker 1: and placed the baby inside a white trash bag containing
31:21
Speaker 1: some trash, and then inside a larger black trash bag.
31:25
Speaker 1: She explained that she then started driving around until she
31:28
Speaker 1: decided to place the baby inside a green colored dumpster
31:33
Speaker 1: near the JC Penny store. Alexis was asked by investigators
31:37
Speaker 1: what she thought would eventually happened to the baby by
31:39
Speaker 1: placing him inside of a plastic bag and dumping him.
31:42
Speaker 1: Alexis remained silent and could not answer. So there she's
31:47
Speaker 1: saying she didn't know she was pregnant, But we know
31:50
Speaker 1: for a fact, do we not? Mary Kate Hamilton from
31:52
Speaker 1: CBS seven that she was very open about her pregnancy
31:56
Speaker 1: as school and had quit going to school just before
31:59
Speaker 1: Christmas break, and then told a different story to her boyfriend,
32:03
Speaker 1: the bio dad of the child, that she had had
32:05
Speaker 1: a miscarriage. Well, I will say, as a journalism entity,
32:09
Speaker 1: we have not confirmed that yet. We have received plenty
32:13
Speaker 1: of screenshots of snapchats and things like that, but we
32:16
Speaker 1: haven't quite confirmed it, so I'm not going to confirm that. However,
32:19
Speaker 1: what I will say is yes. She said she did
32:22
Speaker 1: not know she was pregnant until she sought medical attention
32:26
Speaker 1: for abdominal pain, and there at when she sought medical attention,
32:31
Speaker 1: she was told that she was pregnant, and then she
32:34
Speaker 1: gave birth unexpectedly. But she knew she was pregnant on
32:39
Speaker 1: January sixth, when she sought medical attention for abdominal pain.
32:43
Speaker 1: So right there, regarding of that, right there, she knew
32:47
Speaker 1: at least before the moment she gave birth in the bathroom,
32:52
Speaker 1: she did know. We are told that she was very
32:56
Speaker 1: open about her pregnancy at school, that she didn't go
33:00
Speaker 1: to school up until Christmas, just before Christmas because at
33:03
Speaker 1: the pregnancy, Anne had told her boyfriend that she had
33:07
Speaker 1: a miscarriage. Stunningly, she is not behind bars, explained Mary
33:16
Speaker 1: Kay and Hamilton. Well, she posted a ten thousand dollar bond,
33:20
Speaker 1: and I think that's part of what is very frustrating
33:24
Speaker 1: to people in the community right now. She was in
33:27
Speaker 1: jail for one hour and eighteen minutes before she was released,
33:31
Speaker 1: and the baby was in the dumpster for over five hours,
33:34
Speaker 1: So people around the community are having a really hard
33:37
Speaker 1: time reconciling with the fact that she was in jail
33:41
Speaker 1: shorter than the baby was in the dumpster, and at
33:43
Speaker 1: her hearing yesterday, they have decided that she will not
33:48
Speaker 1: have to She will be on house arrest until trial.
33:51
Speaker 1: She can go to school, she can go to work,
33:53
Speaker 1: she can go to church if her family is there,
33:56
Speaker 1: and she can go to a doctor's office and seek
33:59
Speaker 1: cycle logical or medical attention as well. And that's something
34:03
Speaker 1: that people are having a hard time grappling with. So
34:07
Speaker 1: she was in jail less time than the baby was
34:10
Speaker 1: in the dumpster. Now I understand that right now there
34:14
Speaker 1: is a fight going on to get the baby. Who
34:17
Speaker 1: wants the baby? Mary Kate Hamilton. It's allegedly been reported
34:21
Speaker 1: that the father of the baby would like the baby.
34:25
Speaker 1: How old is he sixteen? Yes, okay, that's a recipe
34:30
Speaker 1: for disaster right there. We also understand that grandparents are
34:36
Speaker 1: going to fight for the baby. To Kathleen Murphy, another
34:41
Speaker 1: recipe for disaster. If they didn't know their daughter was
34:44
Speaker 1: pregnant and she gives birth in the bathroom and tries
34:47
Speaker 1: to kill the baby, why would they have the baby?
34:51
Speaker 1: And with the mom, the bio mom living right there
34:53
Speaker 1: in the home, he's already tried to kill the baby once.
34:56
Speaker 1: I don't think that's going to happen. But you know what,
34:58
Speaker 1: I was in court yesterday, and courts don't do what
35:01
Speaker 1: we think they're going to do in domestic cases. They're
35:04
Speaker 1: going to make a past of first of all, in
35:06
Speaker 1: order for a grandparent to intervene in that case, they
35:09
Speaker 1: not only have to have a substantial relationship with the child,
35:12
Speaker 1: the parents have to be an active litigation. That's in
35:15
Speaker 1: North Carolina. So this is not going to be a
35:17
Speaker 1: family law case, perhaps, but an adoption case because at
35:21
Speaker 1: this juncture, somebody is going to have to have legal
35:26
Speaker 1: custody of this baby in such a way that I mean,
35:31
Speaker 1: it's either going to be the mother, the father, or
35:33
Speaker 1: the grandparents. If Social Services is going to be able
35:36
Speaker 1: to even step in in places Chile with the family,
35:38
Speaker 1: do you think I trust Social Services? Defects upon Social
35:43
Speaker 1: Services on the phone yesterday, No way. Too many children
35:47
Speaker 1: have died under their watch. To doctor Allan Blokey, joining
35:50
Speaker 1: US clinical forensic psychologist out of Birmingham who is defending
35:55
Speaker 1: the alleged murder, Mom, I mean, wow, who should I
35:58
Speaker 1: believe you are? My lying eyes, I looked at the
36:01
Speaker 1: video blockkey. She wasn't crying, she didn't think twice, she
36:06
Speaker 1: didn't hesitate. She threw that baby right in the trash
36:09
Speaker 1: and burn, rubber taken off. She couldn't get away fast enough.
36:15
Speaker 1: Now I'm hearing about all of her lies. You know what,
36:18
Speaker 1: Let me move on with you, Blockie, because I know
36:19
Speaker 1: what you're going to say about that. But what do
36:22
Speaker 1: you think, doctor Blockkey, about the custody of this baby boy? Well,
36:27
Speaker 1: I mean, clearly, we want this baby boy to be
36:30
Speaker 1: with a loving family member, father, grandparents, anybody that's deemed
36:37
Speaker 1: to be the best to be able to provide a
36:41
Speaker 1: stable and loving and protective environment. Clearly, I mean a
36:45
Speaker 1: blood relative. Sure, that's the same family that didn't know
36:50
Speaker 1: that the daughter was pregnant. The daughter a blood relative,
36:55
Speaker 1: but not one of the ones that made some bad decisions,
36:59
Speaker 1: bad decisions. The baby almost died. She threw the baby
37:03
Speaker 1: away trying to kill it, Doctor Blockkey. That's more than
37:08
Speaker 1: a bad decision. No, this girl should not have custody.
37:12
Speaker 1: I'm not saying that, clearly. I'm talking about a close
37:17
Speaker 1: family member who can who can provide a stable and
37:21
Speaker 1: loving home environment. Would that include the girl's mother and father?
37:26
Speaker 1: It doesn't sound like it because they're the ones that
37:29
Speaker 1: there were part of the problem. You know what, I
37:32
Speaker 1: do have to agree with you on that, doctor Blockkey.
37:34
Speaker 1: They are part of the problem, and that may be
37:36
Speaker 1: a bitter pill for them to swallow it. But if
37:39
Speaker 1: you can't tell your daughter is pregnant and she's gone
37:42
Speaker 1: to the doctor with abdominal pain, gives birth in the bathroom,
37:46
Speaker 1: and you don't know anything that's going on, I mean,
37:50
Speaker 1: you know, doctor Bernard coe In joining me, Professor Pediatrics
37:54
Speaker 1: and Dermatology, JOHNS Hopkins Children's Center, author of a pediatric
37:58
Speaker 1: dermatology there would have to be multiple symptoms that she
38:05
Speaker 1: was pregnant. Yes, I think good. I'm sure surely I
38:08
Speaker 1: can't believe that they didn't know she was pregnant, and
38:11
Speaker 1: she actually made it in public to her friends in school,
38:15
Speaker 1: So I mean, the parents might be in denial, but
38:18
Speaker 1: I think they all know that she was pregnant, and
38:20
Speaker 1: she knew she was pregnant. You know what's interesting, doctor
38:24
Speaker 1: Bernard Cohen, and I'm saying interesting much the way I
38:27
Speaker 1: would look at a tarantula under a glass case is
38:31
Speaker 1: the large number of children that are wrapped in plastic
38:38
Speaker 1: in a bag and thrown away. I mean, of course
38:41
Speaker 1: I can point to taught mom, Casey, Anthony and little
38:45
Speaker 1: Kelly being wrapped in a black trash bag and thrown away.
38:49
Speaker 1: But it happens quite often. I've got cases here from
38:52
Speaker 1: well actually, you know, take a listen to our cut seventeen.
38:55
Speaker 1: This is a Vegas baby in a dumpster all week.
38:58
Speaker 1: Police asked the community's helped to find the people responsible.
39:02
Speaker 1: Officers say they found those people. The baby's parents. Take
39:06
Speaker 1: a look at your screen. This is Raoul Ramos and
39:09
Speaker 1: Adrianna her Nandez. Officers arrested them today. The mother and
39:13
Speaker 1: father faced three counts of child abuse or neglect and
39:16
Speaker 1: one count of destroying slash concealing evidence. Their three month
39:20
Speaker 1: old baby boy was found dead in the dumpster over
39:22
Speaker 1: the weekend. So that is in Las Vegas. Now take
39:25
Speaker 1: a listen our cut fourteen, Florida baby in a dumpster.
39:29
Speaker 1: This is the dumpster where that crime newborn was found. Now,
39:32
Speaker 1: thankfully she was found when she did, she was taken
39:35
Speaker 1: to the hospital. She's expected to be okay. Now, it
39:37
Speaker 1: was before they heated, the day before it started raining. Now,
39:41
Speaker 1: I asked the Pabbage County Sheriff's office what kind of
39:43
Speaker 1: leads they had tonight and they told me that sadly
39:46
Speaker 1: they don't have any. I mean, I could go on
39:48
Speaker 1: and on and on. I've got twenty pages full of
39:50
Speaker 1: babies and dumpsters and plastic bags. What does that mean,
39:54
Speaker 1: doctor Bernard Cohen, when you and Kathleen Murphy, who deals
39:58
Speaker 1: with domestic law, see parents every adults every day begging
40:04
Speaker 1: to adopt a child, but people, on the other hand
40:08
Speaker 1: are throwing them away in trashbacks, Doctor Cohen, I mean,
40:12
Speaker 1: from my standpoint, it's insanity. And I mean, I understand
40:17
Speaker 1: the potential here that there may be some psych issues
40:20
Speaker 1: and that these these abuses parents or families need to
40:25
Speaker 1: be evaluated, but certainly these kids need to be protected
40:30
Speaker 1: from the setting. That's that's that's him obviously. Well, I
40:34
Speaker 1: appreciate you giving the mother, if I can use that
40:39
Speaker 1: term of this little baby boy, the benefit of the
40:43
Speaker 1: doubt and suggesting she may have a site issue to
40:46
Speaker 1: Mary Kate Hamilton, and my opinion, which nobody asks for,
40:52
Speaker 1: she knew very well what she was doing, and I
40:55
Speaker 1: see it very clearly under the law, you're either insane
41:00
Speaker 1: or not insane at the time of the act. In
41:02
Speaker 1: same means you don't know right from wrong. At the
41:05
Speaker 1: time of the incident, she knew right from wrong. She
41:09
Speaker 1: hid her pregnancy from her parents, she lied to her
41:13
Speaker 1: boyfriend that she had a miscarriage. She doubled, wrapped the
41:17
Speaker 1: baby in trash bags and threw it away and took
41:20
Speaker 1: off speeding. She knew what she did was wrong ergo,
41:27
Speaker 1: she was saying, what's going to happen to her now?
41:29
Speaker 1: And it was a vulnerable victim, Nancy. And I'd like
41:32
Speaker 1: to make one comment on the bond this fall. You know,
41:37
Speaker 1: I think everyone can that's outraged that the mom is
41:40
Speaker 1: sitting at home. And by the way, that was ten
41:43
Speaker 1: thousand dollars unsecured bond. It's not ten thousand dollars secured,
41:48
Speaker 1: so they'd put up one thousand dollars. That's that's where
41:51
Speaker 1: you go. And keep in mind, this is a product
41:55
Speaker 1: of a national trend called bail reform, and it's not
41:59
Speaker 1: only affecting cases like this, but just standard attempted murder
42:04
Speaker 1: murder cases, of colonious assault cases. People are literally spending
42:11
Speaker 1: less time behind bars than it takes the officers to
42:14
Speaker 1: write the report. And that is a reality across the country. Listen.
42:19
Speaker 1: I'm not being any harder on this mother, Alexis Avilla,
42:24
Speaker 1: than I would be on anyone else that tried to
42:27
Speaker 1: murder a baby. We wait as justice a false Nancy
42:33
Speaker 1: Grace crime story. Signing off, goodbye friend,