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Guarding childhood in an age of confusion · Cultural Wars | America Out Loud News

• 0:06
  It's six Eastern.
• 0:07
  Three o'clock Pacific from coast to coast and around the world.
• 0:11
  Is anybody paying attention?
• 0:13
  From America Out Loud Talk Radio.
• 0:15
  I'll have black and white evidence that the FBI interfered in the 2016 election.
• 0:20
  It's time for the truth be told with Booker Scott.
• 0:24
  First of all, let me welcome you into the program here on a Tuesday night and let you know that right off the bat, this is gonna be a little bit different hour here tonight.
• 0:34
  Sure, there are a lot of political things happening in our country and some parts of the world.
• 0:40
  They seem to be on fire right now.
• 0:42
  But one thing I say quite a bit, and I think it's true.
• 0:47
  Our biggest battle that we find ourselves in right now is probably one for hearts and minds.
• 0:55
  I believe we try too hard to find political or legislative solutions for the ailments of our souls.
• 1:03
  One subject I've dealt with quite a bit here on this program is the LGBTQIA plus.
• 1:11
  And I think they've added an S in there now in that community, in child sex trafficking and human trafficking.
• 1:19
  I've dealt with all of those subjects.
• 1:21
  How could we not, right now, when you take a look at culture and society?
• 1:27
  We hear the stories of children being taken from parents to be transitioned to the opposite sex.
• 1:34
  Parents' rights are being taken away over the state and the state being able to transition those children without the parents' consent.
• 1:44
  If you're like me, you probably think all of this has gone a little bit too far at this point.
• 1:52
  We started with a few drag queen story times, and the next thing you know, a 13-year-old girl has been taken from her parents in Montana to cross a state line where the laws make it easier for that child to transition to the opposite sex.
• 2:09
  The next time those parents see their daughter, it's their son.
• 2:14
  And I don't know about you, but I want to learn more about that life because I just don't understand it.
• 2:22
  What makes a person feel that they're someone they aren't?
• 2:27
  And feel it so strong that they go through extensive medical procedures, life-changing medication to achieve what?
• 2:37
  Exactly what have they achieved when it's all done.
• 2:41
  I'm not sure.
• 2:43
  But I'm willing to learn, and I know I would like to know more.
• 2:47
  As someone who sees the world through a biblical lens, this one's a tough one for me to understand.
• 2:54
  But one thing that's easy for me to understand as a believer as a Christian.
• 3:00
  That's compassion.
• 3:02
  At this moment in our Sodom and Gomorrah history of the 21st century, compassion and empathy may be our best tactic for converting those hearts and minds.
• 3:15
  I'm Booker Scott, and this is the truth be told on America Out Loud Talk Radio.
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• 3:46
  In this hour, we're about to welcome a man to the show so that he can share his journey from a boy to a man to husband and father to a woman for 30 years and back to a man.
• 4:02
  And how that happened.
• 4:03
  Was it divine intervention, or did it have to do with him digging into scripture, listening to sermons, going to church as a woman, so that the Holy Spirit could change his heart.
• 4:16
  He's written his story in a new book.
• 4:18
  It's called Not Man Enough to Be a Woman, transgendered for 30 years, no lie lives forever.
• 4:27
  His name is William Allen.
• 4:29
  And William, thanks so much for coming and spending this time with us and sharing your story with us so that we have a better understanding of what this is all about.
• 4:41
  It's good to be with you, buddy.
• 4:42
  Thank you.
• 4:43
  You know, one place to start here is where I first came to know you, and that was in a sermon that Pastor Willie Rice, Dr.
• 4:50
  Willie Rice at Calvary Church did.
• 4:53
  And when was that?
• 4:54
  Was that uh in back in May?
• 4:57
  That was May 19th.
• 4:58
  May 19th, you know exactly.
• 5:00
  So here's that sermon, a clip from that sermon.
• 5:03
  This is when I became aware that you existed.
• 5:06
  So let's listen to this clip here with Dr.
• 5:09
  Willie Rice at Calvary Church.
• 5:11
  I got a letter the other day.
• 5:13
  Kind of surprised me.
• 5:15
  It was from a person named Maggie.
• 5:18
  Maggie had written me a couple of times in the past, so it took me a moment, but I remembered getting emails from Maggie, and apparently Maggie said I'd even called her to answer a question.
• 5:30
  And more than that, Maggie had moved to Clearwater a few years ago and said, I've been coming to your church, and a few years ago, I came to be baptized.
• 5:40
  You baptized me as Maggie.
• 5:42
  You didn't know any better.
• 5:45
  But I'm not Maggie.
• 5:48
  She said in 1961 when I was born.
• 5:53
  I was born a male.
• 5:56
  My name is William.
• 5:57
  And I lied to you, and I've been lying to a lot of people, including myself.
• 6:04
  William said, for 30 years, I've lived as a woman.
• 6:09
  I can't explain it.
• 6:11
  I don't understand it.
• 6:12
  I got married as a young man.
• 6:13
  It was a happy marriage, a good woman, and I suppressed that desire, and then it came back and it ruined my marriage.
• 6:19
  It cost me my family.
• 6:20
  I was estranged with my parents.
• 6:22
  But I'd settled down to a mostly comfortable life, and almost nobody knew.
• 6:26
  You didn't know.
• 6:27
  I know, no, I know you didn't know, and I thought I was a Christian even.
• 6:32
  Told people I'd ask Jesus into my heart, but the truth is I never loved to read the Bible.
• 6:37
  I never had a thirst for the things of God.
• 6:42
  Couple years ago, she said, I was listening to you preach, and something began to happen in my heart.
• 6:51
  I began to feel the Holy Spirit stirring and convicting me.
• 6:57
  I began to watch a lot of it online, and but there were videos in your I went back and watched all the videos they had stored up in the archives and the website, and then you know, I started listening to other preachers.
• 7:08
  And fortunately, Maggie was listening to really solid Bible preachers.
• 7:12
  She listened to them.
• 7:13
  I mean some strong ones.
• 7:15
  And I began to listen to those, and they made me mad at first.
• 7:19
  But the more I began to listen, the more I knew they were telling me the truth.
• 7:23
  And I began to hunger to know God.
• 7:27
  And I knew I needed to repent.
• 7:30
  Maggie said the day came when as I began to listen and think about all that had happened in my life, I realized I needed to repent and turn to God that I'd never been saved.
• 7:43
  Maggie wrote me this letter and said I started to see all the people that I had deceived as a pretend woman, and I saw the relationships with them as false and undeserved.
• 7:51
  I'm reading the letter.
• 7:52
  Maggie sent me.
• 7:55
  I don't have time to read it all.
• 7:58
  In fact, uh later on, maybe we'll find a way to communicate because it's so much in this story.
• 8:06
  Maggie said, I grew more and more disheartened with my own lifestyle.
• 8:10
  I saw my lifestyle for what it was.
• 8:11
  I saw my sin for what it was.
• 8:14
  I broke down crying.
• 8:17
  I mean ugly crying because I knew what a vile person I'd been all my life.
• 8:22
  My desires no longer mattered.
• 8:25
  I cried out to God, confessing my sins and who I was.
• 8:30
  Now I knew I needed a savior.
• 8:33
  I repented and asked for forgiveness.
• 8:35
  I turned away from it all.
• 8:36
  I wanted to be pleasing in his eyes.
• 8:38
  I wanted to put it all on Jesus, and I gave up my life to him whatever required.
• 8:46
  A level of peace that I have never experienced came over me.
• 8:51
  Suddenly, nothing in the world mattered any longer, at least not like what Jesus had done for me.
• 8:56
  I now love reading and studying the Bible.
• 8:58
  I pray a lot.
• 8:59
  I love talking to others about Christ, and I take any opportunity to present the gospel.
• 9:04
  The Holy Spirit is living in me and is changing me.
• 9:07
  And that's when I knew I wanted to fully repent, try the transition.
• 9:13
  I wanted to glorify God.
• 9:17
  Maggie, not Maggie anymore, it's William.
• 9:20
  Had to go through surgeries, which people don't want to do.
• 9:24
  They want to do the other kind, but they don't know it.
• 9:26
  This kind.
• 9:46
  And then William, and it's a personal letter, but I asked William, is it okay if I read that?
• 9:51
  He said it is.
• 9:52
  I said, It's okay if I use your name, I don't have to.
• 9:54
  He said, No, no, I want you to.
• 9:55
  I'm writing a book.
• 9:56
  I'm going to tell my story.
• 9:58
  This has been a long time coming.
• 10:00
  William said this.
• 10:01
  Will you forgive me, first of all?
• 10:03
  Because I didn't tell you who it really was.
• 10:05
  I said, Will, of course.
• 10:07
  And then William said, Now I know this is a sensitive question.
• 10:11
  Would you baptize me?
• 10:14
  As William.
• 10:16
  Your brother in Christ.
• 10:18
  Because now I've been saved.
• 10:20
  And I want to follow Jesus.
• 10:25
  So tonight, out at the beach.
• 10:29
  William's gonna get baptized.
• 10:31
  And somebody who wants to follow Jesus.
• 10:34
  Here's what I want to say.
• 10:39
  I don't know what your story is.
• 10:42
  But we have all messed up.
• 10:45
  We've all believed lies a time or two about ourselves, about others, and that's all an idol is.
• 10:51
  It's a lie.
• 10:53
  You believe some lies about who you are.
• 10:55
  And William, I remember that sermon like it was yesterday, and I'm sure that you probably do too.
• 11:01
  I know at the end of it, I had tears in my eyes.
• 11:06
  And on that night when you got baptized at the beach, I made sure that I drove out to the beach that night to support you in getting baptized.
• 11:16
  And you didn't know I was there.
• 11:18
  You didn't care, but I wanted to be there for that moment because I was moved by your story because we need so many more stories like yours.
• 11:28
  And let's tell your story.
• 11:30
  We heard a lot there from Pastor Willie, but let's fill in some of the blanks that he didn't get into.
• 11:36
  And as we go and look at your story, let's go back to being a child.
• 11:42
  When was it that you first felt in some way that maybe you were supposed to be a girl instead of a boy?
• 11:50
  When was that?
• 11:52
  Well, I want to clarify something.
• 11:55
  Because I a lot of people, uh, especially today, you hear people saying, uh, I identify as as a girl or a woman, uh, or I'm I used to hear the old uh I feel like a woman trapped in a man's body.
• 12:10
  Yeah.
• 12:10
  Uh I'm really the other gender or the other sex.
• 12:15
  I never felt that.
• 12:18
  I want to there's a I want to differentiate this from the earliest time in my life that I can remember.
• 12:26
  I simply wanted to be a girl.
• 12:30
  I wished I had been born a girl.
• 12:34
  I can't explain, and this is back around age four or five, far back as I can remember.
• 12:40
  At the time, I you know, at that age, I understood there were differences between boys and girls.
• 12:48
  I knew my dad was a male, I knew my mama was a female, and I wanted to be a female.
• 12:57
  I had a lot of cousins, I had boy cousins and girl cousins.
• 13:01
  I knew I was a boy, but I wanted to be a girl.
• 13:05
  I can't say that I felt like a girl.
• 13:10
  I just wished I had been.
• 13:12
  I don't know why.
• 13:14
  And and and at that age, too, I certainly wasn't aware of all the the biological differences, of course.
• 13:22
  But uh with whatever information I had at the time, for some reason, I wanted to be a girl rather than a boy.
• 13:30
  Yeah, from four or five years old, you felt that inside of you that you didn't feel like a girl.
• 13:36
  You didn't feel like you were a girl.
• 13:38
  You knew the difference, but you wanted to be a girl.
• 13:42
  And is that gender dysphoria?
• 13:45
  What exactly is that?
• 13:46
  Is there a term for it?
• 13:48
  Yeah, back when I had gotten a little bit quite a bit older, like in my twenties, uh, eventually I, you know, was seeing um psychologists, and the diagnosis they had back then was called gender identity disorder.
• 14:00
  Today it's called gender dysphoria.
• 14:03
  And uh gender identity disorder was listed as a mental disorder in the DSM III, uh the diagnostic statistics manual.
• 14:11
  It's just what uh psychiatrists use for differentiating between all the different mental disorders and treatments and such.
• 14:19
  Today in the DSM 5, it's uh called gender dysphoria, and it's not so much listed as a mental disorder.
• 14:27
  It and it focuses more on the person's identity.
• 14:33
  And so I think to a degree, even the DSM has gone woke.
• 14:39
  Yeah.
• 14:40
  Uh, because they've even changed uh certain designations, like you know, you know, we when we're born, we're male or female.
• 14:49
  That's right.
• 14:50
  There's there's a choice of two.
• 14:51
  Right.
• 14:52
  Yeah, they've changed those words now to gender assigned at birth, you know, male assigned at birth, or female assigned at birth.
• 15:02
  Yeah, leaves it open.
• 15:03
  Right.
• 15:04
  They leave it open, don't they?
• 15:05
  So that it can be changed easily later on.
• 15:08
  Yeah.
• 15:08
  So you as a young man, you get married, you get married as a young man, and uh, you know, that you're in a marriage, and eventually, uh, somewhere along the way, you decide to become a woman.
• 15:21
  And what was that like at that point in your life?
• 15:24
  What was going on with you mentally a woman as much as anyone can?
• 15:28
  Yeah.
• 15:29
  Uh, you know, uh, in reality, that just can't happen.
• 15:33
  You know, and I I gotta say, I uh I I see people today that that are doing these things, and it just really bugs me.
• 15:42
  And I look at them sometimes thinking, man, these guys are people are weird, you know.
• 15:48
  Why in the world would they want to?
• 15:49
  And then and then all of a sudden I come back and I oh wait, hold on.
• 15:52
  Yeah, I did that.
• 15:53
  Yeah, yeah.
• 15:54
  Did you consider yourself ever weird?
• 15:56
  Or did you perceive that people thought that you were weird?
• 16:00
  Oh, of course I yeah, from from from day one, I knew I was weird, and I knew I had to hide it as a child, even.
• 16:06
  Um I mean, there's no I I knew whatever it was that I was feeling, and and uh, you know, I had dress up time and and and and all that, I acted out.
• 16:15
  I knew that there was something telling me that was wrong, and uh, and I hid it, and I dealt with it the best I could.
• 16:23
  And and growing up, I it's not like I was playing with Barbies or anything like that.
• 16:27
  I was doing all the boy stuff, and um but I in secret I would I would have my own dress up time, pretend time.
• 16:38
  Yeah, William, were you were you raised in a family of churchgoers?
• 16:43
  Did of church goers, yes.
• 16:45
  Yeah, yeah.
• 16:45
  I I can't necessarily say that my parents were Christians.
• 16:50
  It's it's hard for me to know that for sure, but we did go to church.
• 16:57
  And do you think I was raised in the in the Methodist church, yeah?
• 17:00
  Okay, do you feel like any of those things that popped into your mind like this is wrong?
• 17:05
  Did that come from uh your early indoctrination in church, or did that come from your parents, or was that something just within you that says, hey, I'm a little boy, but I want to be a girl, and this isn't right.
• 17:19
  Where does that come from in a kid that's five or six?
• 17:22
  I think it was just something internal.
• 17:24
  It was just something I inherently knew wasn't right.
• 17:30
  And because I knew I had to hide it.
• 17:32
  That was one reason I knew that it wasn't right.
• 17:35
  And I don't think it was because of any message I got from church or because of anything, any indoctrination from my own parents or anything, because they didn't know about it.
• 17:44
  Yeah, you were you were playing dress up and hiding it from them.
• 17:47
  Yeah, because you felt inside that it was wrong, and because of that you hid what you were doing.
• 17:54
  Yeah, so I get that.
• 17:56
  So uh take us take us take us into your marriage, and then you know, the transition into becoming uh Maggie.
• 18:04
  Where does that start?
• 18:06
  Where does how does that happen?
• 18:07
  Right, right.
• 18:08
  Well, yeah, that whole thing dogged me for most of my life uh and into early adulthood and getting through uh university, uh was difficult because it was just on my mind all the time.
• 18:22
  This this thing.
• 18:23
  And if you knew had known me before, you never would have guessed that I would ever do something like that.
• 18:29
  I mean, I was not a feminine and uh gay.
• 18:34
  You were a masculine man and you're not gay.
• 18:36
  Well, you're still not gay, are you?
• 18:38
  See, that's that's something someone like me needs to understand.
• 18:42
  Because uh, you know, we just don't know.
• 18:44
  We don't know what any of this means.
• 18:46
  There are so many variations.
• 18:48
  We just wanted to stop, you know.
• 18:50
  We just wanted to stop.
• 18:51
  And in fact, we're we're up against a break, so we're gonna come right back and continue this conversation.
• 18:56
  We're talking to William Allen.
• 18:59
  He transitioned as a young man to a woman where he stayed for 30 years.
• 19:05
  And you just heard his story there from Pastor Willie.
• 19:08
  We're gonna continue with his story here in just a minute.
• 19:12
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  I'm Booker Scott.
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  We're being joined tonight by an author now who just wrote a book.
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  I'm going to give you information about how you can find that book a little bit later.
• 21:52
  And William, let's get back into the conversation.
• 21:55
  When we went to the break there, I was trying to get you to start talking about the transition.
• 22:00
  You were married, and at that point in your life, you decided to go ahead and go through that.
• 22:05
  And as Willie mentioned in the sermon there that you heard a lot of people, and you admit that you heard a lot of people.
• 22:11
  I have to imagine that your wife was a casualty in this.
• 22:17
  Oh, yeah.
• 22:18
  A lot of people were.
• 22:19
  My my father, my mother, a lot of people were.
• 22:22
  Um yeah, I had uh been dealing with the situation and really explored once I had moved out to the Pacific Northwest where I had uh had a job after after university, I started to actually explore this a lot more and found out that there were other people like me.
• 22:37
  I I didn't know that most of my life, and that was a huge relief.
• 22:41
  And finding them uh kind of opened up the possibilities.
• 22:46
  Uh it opened up some exploration on my part.
• 22:50
  And as I was doing that, uh one day out of the blue, I met a girl, and um uh we we hit it off, and it was one of those things where we each knew that we had just met the person we were gonna marry, and uh several months later we we were married, and uh the the greatest thing was that when this happened, all those desires that I had, they they went away, they're gone.
• 23:18
  I thought I was cured.
• 23:20
  Yeah, so you you became cured for a moment in time there.
• 23:24
  Yeah, when you when you find the person that will be your wife.
• 23:28
  Yeah.
• 23:29
  Was that a relief to you?
• 23:30
  Oh, yes, absolutely.
• 23:32
  And and at the time too, I had always thought I was a Christian.
• 23:35
  Like I said, I was raised up in the church, and and uh there were key moments in my life, and uh uh where I kind of realized, you know, maybe I wasn't saved, and I I did some soul searching and uh said a prayer, you know, one that's often called the sinner's prayer, and and hey, I'm saved now for real this time, and I gotta tell you, yeah, I've been saved four or five times.
• 23:59
  It only takes once, though.
• 24:01
  It only takes one good one.
• 24:03
  It only takes one good one, doesn't it?
• 24:05
  Yeah, yeah.
• 24:06
  So yeah, I got married and uh for a while, for a year and a half or so, it was just fantastic marriage.
• 24:11
  We we were hitting it all, we were just doing great, and uh uh after about a year and a half, two years, it it my old nemesis came back and uh uh with a vengeance.
• 24:24
  It was kind of like it was an entity and it and it hadn't gotten any attention for the past couple of years, and so you know, it really uh took a uh prominent position in my in my mind and my my life.
• 24:37
  And I got to the point where I just couldn't uh couldn't deal with that anymore.
• 24:41
  And uh there came a point where I had to confide in my wife and tell her what was going on.
• 24:47
  Told her I thought I'd had it lit, but I didn't, obviously.
• 24:51
  And how did that go?
• 24:52
  I'm curious how that conversation went.
• 24:54
  Yeah.
• 24:55
  Yeah.
• 24:56
  She she was a godly woman.
• 24:57
  She uh uh just the real you know stereotypical girly girl, and and she she wanted that role, she wanted to raise children and and uh she had pinned all her pinned her whole future on me.
• 25:11
  And uh man, I uh just uh it was just awful that you know what I did.
• 25:18
  Um but dealing with what I was dealing with, I there was just no way that we could go on.
• 25:23
  And of course, she she filed for divorce, and I can't blame her.
• 25:27
  I didn't want it, but uh it it it was clear that it just was not going to work out, obviously.
• 25:34
  Yeah.
• 25:35
  How soon, how soon after that divorce do you start transitioning?
• 25:40
  And we're talking what year here.
• 25:42
  This is what 35 years ago, roughly.
• 25:45
  That was uh well, I started the transition in 93, and I think we got divorced in 89.
• 25:52
  So it was uh through it was a couple three years.
• 25:56
  Yeah.
• 25:56
  Uh in between actually made the decision.
• 25:58
  Right.
• 25:58
  Yeah.
• 25:59
  Um but you know, and in between there, there was uh the tail end of the divorce there.
• 26:03
  There were there was uh real close call with suicide.
• 26:07
  Um I had just lost my wife, and uh basically that was my whole life at that point, you know.
• 26:14
  And uh I was dealing with this thing that I thought I was rid of, and man, it was it was bad.
• 26:20
  And I so the divorce, the divorce almost drives you to suicide because you identified your life and your person with that marriage and that marriage is over, and it takes you to the depths of depression.
• 26:34
  And then if now in two or three years, you identify as a woman and become a woman.
• 26:41
  Well, and uh again, I don't I don't want to ever say that I identified as a woman.
• 26:45
  I I know a lot of people say that.
• 26:48
  And um I I never say that I identified as a woman.
• 26:55
  Again, I wanted to be a woman.
• 26:58
  Now I knew that was impossible, but there were steps that I could take to at least live presenting as a woman.
• 27:07
  And you know, I I get it.
• 27:12
  There's there's so many dudes in dresses out there, and it's awfully clear and obvious that they're just dude and dudes in dresses.
• 27:18
  Right.
• 27:19
  Um, there are some that present very well, and you wouldn't you wouldn't know.
• 27:24
  Um a lot of them, as soon as they open their mouth, the jig is up, though.
• 27:28
  Yeah, correct.
• 27:29
  Yeah.
• 27:29
  And uh I I feel like, gee, whiz, if you're gonna do this, come on, put some effort into it and go see a voice coach or something, which which is what I did.
• 27:39
  And I had really worked on my uh presentation.
• 27:43
  This is after I had finally made the decision to do this.
• 27:45
  And and I want to note too that in my counseling, I I talked to different psych psychiatrists, I talked to a lot of different pastors as well.
• 27:53
  My initial uh uh uh goal was to make this go away.
• 28:02
  And I was talking to people that that knew something about the subject, but I told them my plan, I said, I don't want to do this, I want this whole thing to go away.
• 28:11
  And it in listening to your story, it's almost like you always wanted it to go away, but it wouldn't, would it?
• 28:18
  Even when you were a little boy, you knew it was wrong, you shouldn't be doing it, but you were still playing dress up in hiding.
• 28:25
  And then as a young adult, you still want it, I just want it to go away.
• 28:30
  Stop it.
• 28:30
  But for some reason, you couldn't do it, even with a lot of help from other people.
• 28:35
  No, yeah, couldn't do it.
• 28:37
  So I finally realized that uh I'm either going to go through this change, or I'm gonna wind up dead.
• 28:45
  And so uh I had been playing with the presentation, and I had gotten a lot of uh compliments from people, and I I did go see a voice coach and was able to modify my own voice.
• 28:56
  And for a couple of years, I had to be conscious of it and and make an effort, but it eventually became national, didn't have to think about it.
• 29:04
  And just in contrast, I can tell you, I I still have to I I just completed the detransition last October.
• 29:11
  I can tell you that even at this point, I'm still having to make a conscious effort to keep my voice more masculine at this point.
• 29:19
  Yeah, but well, you were you were using the other voice for 30 years.
• 29:22
  Yeah, exactly.
• 29:23
  And I'm assuming that you worked also during those 30 years.
• 29:27
  How did how did that go?
• 29:29
  Did the people that you worked with know you and believe you to be a woman as Maggie?
• 29:34
  Well, uh, I was going to leave my company and transition and start over someplace else.
• 29:41
  I had told my boss about it because I needed to use him as a reference.
• 29:45
  Um through a series of events, the the corporate, all the corporate people found out about it, and they called me in.
• 29:52
  They summoned me into an office and they sat me down and told me they wanted me to stay and that they would support me.
• 29:58
  And they
• 30:00
  They they made an offer and just uh it was kind of hard to resist.
• 30:04
  So I did stay.
• 30:05
  I transitioned on that on the job and uh had a lot of support from a lot of people.
• 30:10
  So obviously the people there knew.
• 30:14
  Um now outside of the company, the customers we dealt with, uh, the vendors that I worked with, um, and just new friends that I made after I had transitioned.
• 30:25
  They didn't know.
• 30:27
  Um it it might sound like I'm bragging a little bit, but but I I was passing.
• 30:32
  Yeah.
• 30:33
  And uh people accept me for who and what I appeared to be.
• 30:36
  Well, and I was making Willie just talked about it too in the clip that I played here in this hour.
• 30:41
  Talking about you coming to church as Maggie and being baptized, even as Maggie.
• 30:46
  Yeah.
• 30:47
  So you passed.
• 30:48
  You passed really well.
• 30:49
  Well, and you know that they, you know, the people that come to be baptized, they're they're they ask questions.
• 30:54
  They want to make sure that you understand, yeah.
• 30:57
  Exactly.
• 30:58
  And and and so they talked with me and asked me the questions and stuff, and they didn't they didn't know.
• 31:02
  I I was deceiving them.
• 31:05
  And uh, of course, at the time, I uh it didn't seem that wrong to me.
• 31:09
  I was just who I was at the time.
• 31:13
  And um, but yeah, he he he baptized me under false pretenses, obviously.
• 31:17
  For one thing, I wasn't a Christian at the time, and also I wasn't who I said I was.
• 31:21
  Yeah, right.
• 31:22
  So uh yeah, so I I but I just bring that up.
• 31:26
  I bring that up because you passed.
• 31:28
  Yeah, you you were saying that you passed, and you obviously passed.
• 31:32
  You you passed in church to be baptized as a woman, and you came to that congregation uh on somewhat a regular basis, I'm assuming.
• 31:41
  Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 31:43
  Yeah, and I had uh other jobs, I moved on to other jobs and careers, and and nobody knew unless I told them.
• 31:48
  Uh, and even then sometimes they didn't believe me.
• 31:52
  Um but uh and of course my my family, they they still probably saw the old me, but um some of them accepted me and and some didn't.
• 32:02
  Um and I know another part of the story, William, and maybe a painful part of the story is you being estranged from your father.
• 32:10
  And you told me before we had this conversation here on the radio when we were talking on the telephone that the name of the book comes really from your father.
• 32:22
  Can you can you talk about that?
• 32:24
  Yeah.
• 32:25
  Um in 1993, uh it was uh tail, it was uh Taylor in 1992, actually.
• 32:33
  I had gone home for Christmas uh a few months prior to that.
• 32:37
  I had written a letter telling my parents what I was getting ready to do.
• 32:42
  And I realized it didn't, I couldn't convey much emotion or uh sense of urgency or anguish in that letter.
• 32:50
  So I recorded the tape and uh uh sent that to my folks.
• 32:54
  Turns out my dad refused to listen to the tape, and they called me up and said, What's going on?
• 33:01
  And I just could not, I couldn't say it.
• 33:03
  They started playing 20 questions with me, and he finally nailed it and uh said, Well, come home for Christmas and we'll talk about it.
• 33:10
  So I did come home, and it was the last night that I was there.
• 33:14
  Uh I had to go back to Seattle where I worked at the time the next morning.
• 33:18
  And uh, so we we we sat down, we had this conversation, and it started off okay.
• 33:24
  He was asking some genuine, uh sincere questions, and but then it started turning ugly.
• 33:30
  And uh, you know, my dad, he had he had been proud of his boy, you know.
• 33:33
  I uh that's my boy Eagle Scout, uh that's my boy, just this pilot's license.
• 33:38
  He just graduated university.
• 33:39
  That's that's my boy, I'm proud of my boy.
• 33:41
  And all of a sudden, this boy wanted to be a girl.
• 33:44
  And that had to be devastating.
• 33:46
  I get it.
• 33:47
  And honestly, I can't say I would have handled this any differently.
• 33:50
  Um, but he in during this talk, uh, and he was just getting so so frustrated.
• 33:56
  He went off on this diatribe about his sisters.
• 34:00
  He had six sisters, and he talked about their virtues and just how wonderful they were, how women in general, really, and how in many ways that women are superior to men.
• 34:11
  And it and in his frustration, he just couldn't quite get out what he wanted to say, but he did spit out some words that kind of got my attention, and what he said was, you're just not man enough to be a woman.
• 34:26
  And at the time I felt like chuckling, but that was obviously not the right thing to do.
• 34:31
  Uh, and the conversation went downhill from there.
• 34:35
  But when I started writing this book, that popped back into my head, and I just thought, well, that's the book title.
• 34:41
  Yeah, it's a great title.
• 34:43
  The the I mean i i it the title itself, the words are kind of nonsensical, but I still thought it made a good book title.
• 34:51
  Yeah, it really does.
• 34:52
  And I'm gonna tell everyone where they can find that book.
• 34:55
  It will also be available in the shop at America Outloud.news.
• 34:59
  So if you're listening to this on a podcast after the live broadcast, then you while you're doing that, you can go to AmericaOutloud.com or dot news, either one of those, go in the shop and then look for all of the books that are there from all the different authors that you hear right here on the network.
• 35:16
  Before we come up to another break, let's get back to your transition.
• 35:21
  You have the conversation with your dad, and now you go through it medically and in every way, don't you?
• 35:27
  You change your name from I were you William to begin with, or I was William to begin with.
• 35:33
  Okay, so that is your name.
• 35:35
  So you go from William to Maggie.
• 35:37
  Take us through it, and then Maggie came from that.
• 35:39
  Okay, so you've even changed Margaret's name to Maggie.
• 35:42
  So take us through that transition there 30 years ago.
• 35:46
  You started to uh talking about your experience at work, how they kept you and were supportive, and you become a female and you pass.
• 35:54
  Everybody thinks you are a female, but I guess at some point you decide I'm still not happy.
• 36:00
  This isn't what I want now.
• 36:02
  No, isn't it?
• 36:03
  Well, it was a long time, but no, I I was happy.
• 36:07
  Um the the process involved uh the hormones, uh, which really they do a number on your body.
• 36:13
  Uh I mean, a lot of things happened, and uh skin texture changed, fat redistributed, hair texture changed, um well, improved breasts, a lot of things happened.
• 36:23
  And um uh I had gotten electrolysis to get rid of my beard.
• 36:27
  So my beard was taken out one follicle at a time, about a hundred hours of that.
• 36:34
  Um there's obviously uh the surgeries, uh, and at the time there was a set of standards in place that you had to go through.
• 36:46
  And one of the big biggest requirements was that you have to live in the opposite role for a year before you can have that surgery.
• 36:54
  Uh and it's the process was designed to weed people out.
• 37:00
  Do they do that anymore?
• 37:02
  Will you know it's been completely thrown out the window?
• 37:04
  Yeah, I knew they used to do that, but it's crazy.
• 37:07
  Yeah, yeah.
• 37:08
  So I did that and uh did did my year in a couple two, three more months, and uh and I did have that final surgery that uh called a vaginoplasty, and uh um it's pretty well accomplished.
• 37:23
  This is back in 1994 is when I had that surgery, and it's pretty well accomplished.
• 37:27
  They say the kind of color is can't even tell the difference on in a visual inspection.
• 37:32
  Um so uh after that it happened, I got I tell you, Booker, I was happy.
• 37:37
  I was living and presenting as a woman, and eventually had moved on to other companies.
• 37:44
  I I lived and worked in three different comp countries, and uh um like I said, people just didn't know uh after a couple after a few years too.
• 37:53
  I started getting attention from men, and I kind of started to like it.
• 37:57
  And I dated a little bit.
• 37:59
  Um had other jobs.
• 38:02
  I didn't have any serious relationships or anything, you know.
• 38:06
  Uh there was there came a point where you know, having been on the hormones for a few years, and like I said, getting attention from men, and uh I I realized I I still notice women, but it's more I'm paying attention to what they're wearing or how they got their hair done, and you know how their gait, how they're walking and how they're communicating things.
• 38:25
  So that you can dress like them, do makeup like them and and walk like them, but not in a way of being attractive to them.
• 38:34
  Right.
• 38:34
  And yeah, I it doesn't really sound like you're necessarily or were necessarily attracted to men either, but it was maybe something that made you feel good that you were getting the attention that you craved being a woman.
• 38:47
  Yeah, and going into it, they uh I had heard that uh if if you're straight to begin with, you'll most likely be straight afterwards.
• 38:56
  Now, if you think of the word straight meaning an opposite sex attraction, if you I was a guy and I was attracted to women at the time, I go through this in sort of a woman with and still opposite opposite sex attraction, meaning I would then be attracted to men.
• 39:10
  Okay, there's that scenario.
• 39:12
  The other scenario, if you're gay to begin with, you'll most likely still be gay afterwards.
• 39:16
  So uh it was it was up in the air.
• 39:18
  Who knew?
• 39:19
  I didn't know what was gonna happen.
• 39:20
  I didn't necessarily want to still be attracted to women because I've then make me a lesbian, and that's a whole other set of issues.
• 39:27
  But William, it doesn't sound like this is about sex, though, is it?
• 39:32
  No, no, it's not at all.
• 39:34
  It's that that's not what I'm getting from this.
• 39:36
  Yeah, it's it's not.
• 39:37
  There, there's there's fizz there's sexual attraction to one gender or another.
• 39:42
  Um, and then there's who you think you are, or how you want to live, how you see yourself.
• 39:48
  And um we're we're gonna get into a break here, but I want to get into that conversation with everything that we see going on here in the 21st century in America in Western civilization.
• 40:00
  And it's disturbing.
• 40:02
  It's something that we deal with on this show and this network quite a bit.
• 40:06
  And I want to talk about that with William Allen coming up.
• 40:10
  More truth in minutes on America Out Loud Talk Radio.
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• 40:55
  Tonight at nine o'clock, it is after dark with Rob and Andrew, and that follows the National Security Hour at 8 o'clock Eastern.
• 41:02
  And coming up here in just a few minutes, it is Unleashed the Political News Hour.
• 41:06
  I'm Booker Scott.
• 41:08
  This is the truth be told.
• 41:09
  We are having an interesting conversation here with William Allen, who transitioned from a young man in his twenties, I guess about 30, who transitioned to a female who stayed a female for 30 years.
• 41:23
  And as you just heard, he was happy as a female, but he didn't stay happy forever.
• 41:28
  Something happened along the way that made William look for something more.
• 41:33
  So let's get into the conversation there, William.
• 41:36
  What was it that made you look for something else?
• 41:39
  You had looked to become a girl at one point, and then a female, a woman, and now you're back to a man, and it's an incredible story.
• 41:48
  So take us there.
• 41:51
  Well, uh, for 20 plus years, uh, yeah, like I said, I was happy and lived and worked in three different countries.
• 41:57
  Uh settled into a uh very comfortable lifestyle.
• 42:01
  And um uh in 2015, uh I came back to Clearwater from the Pacific Northwest.
• 42:10
  My father was terminal.
• 42:12
  Now we hadn't spoken in 23 years at the time.
• 42:14
  I was still in touch with my mother, though.
• 42:17
  And it's not to say that she approved of or liked what I did, but she still loved her child, and so we still talk.
• 42:25
  But we did it in we did it clandestinely.
• 42:27
  Uh dad never really knew about it.
• 42:29
  So you don't talk to your dad for 24 years.
• 42:32
  He's yeah, he's so upset, so angry that his son became a daughter.
• 42:38
  Okay.
• 42:38
  And there were some others in the family too.
• 42:40
  It's a very large family.
• 42:41
  He had they were uh he was one of eight, and uh so I've got a lot of aunts and uncles, a lot of cousins, and um uh not all of the family accepted it either.
• 42:50
  Uh they didn't all affirm me.
• 42:51
  Some did.
• 42:52
  Um so it was nice to be able to still be in touch with some of that family.
• 42:56
  But yeah, in 2015, uh he was coming to the end of uh about a three-year fight with cancer, and um uh he didn't have much longer to live.
• 43:09
  And my mother too was just starting to get pretty sick as well.
• 43:13
  Excuse me.
• 43:15
  And I I had told her that you know, at any time I'm ready to come down and and uh you know take care of of her.
• 43:23
  And uh he was pretty much in the hospital full time.
• 43:25
  Now I I'm an only child, I'm the only only child in the whole family, so I didn't have any siblings that were taking care of them, but uh there was another aunt and uncle here in town that uh was helping out best they could.
• 43:38
  And uh it was uh I had talked to my mother one night, and uh she finally agreed to let me come down and uh start taking care of her because she was having a hard time getting around and she couldn't take care of him anymore either.
• 43:51
  Um, and plus knowing that dad was terminal, I'd have to be here anyway.
• 43:56
  So the very next morning I got a call from my aunt, and she said that my mother passed during the night.
• 44:06
  Wait, what?
• 44:07
  You mean dad?
• 44:09
  No, it was my mother, totally unexpected.
• 44:12
  Yeah, so now you're left with your dad and his daughter, you know.
• 44:18
  Yeah.
• 44:19
  So I hopped a plane uh and uh got into town the next day, my aunt and uncle picked me up.
• 44:27
  Now, this particular aunt and uncle, they had never seen Maggie before.
• 44:31
  And we had only resumed communications maybe a couple of years before that as well.
• 44:37
  So it was awkward for everybody, obviously.
• 44:41
  And uh, so I got home, mom was in the morgue, dad was in the hospital, and pretty much out of it.
• 44:48
  So my aunt and I were spending quite a bit of time at the hospital.
• 44:52
  Now she would go into the room with dad.
• 44:54
  I I wouldn't.
• 44:55
  I I didn't want to cause any grief for him, especially with considering the state he was in.
• 45:00
  Yeah, in his last days.
• 45:02
  And um she was so hoping that I'd be able to go in, and and there was a nurse there that uh was working quite a bit with them, and uh she knew that he had a son.
• 45:13
  So when I showed up, she was confused, and so my aunt explained the whole story to her.
• 45:18
  Well, that nurse and my aunt uh conspired lovingly and tried to to get me to go in, and uh I really did not want to cause him any grief.
• 45:32
  And there was an element too of I didn't he I knew he was not gonna be the same man that I knew.
• 45:37
  He was gonna look a lot different.
• 45:40
  Sure.
• 45:40
  A quarter of a century, yeah.
• 45:42
  Yeah, exactly.
• 45:43
  And I really wonder would rather have remembered him uh from when we were still good, you know.
• 45:49
  And uh so we they came up with uh a plan and and and I made him a deal.
• 45:56
  I said, look, if you can if you tell him that it's Maggie that's here, not William.
• 46:02
  Um make sure he understands that.
• 46:05
  Uh and if he can't answer you verbally, tell him tell him to blink his eyes twice if he wants to see me.
• 46:13
  And I'm thinking this is not gonna happen.
• 46:14
  There's no way.
• 46:15
  I thought that was a safe bet.
• 46:17
  So they went in there, and uh my aunt apparently told him that Maggie was here and made sure he understood, and she asked him if he wanted to see me, and he blinked his eyes twice.
• 46:27
  She came out and said, he blinked his eyes twice.
• 46:30
  I couldn't believe it.
• 46:32
  So at that point, the nurse calls out from inside the room and says, He just said send her in.
• 46:39
  Uh wow.
• 46:40
  Okay, this is crazy.
• 46:42
  So I went in, and it was uh uh very awkward.
• 46:47
  It was uh uh stressful thing for me, and I'm sure for him too.
• 46:52
  And uh course I get choked up when I start thinking about it as you're talking about.
• 46:59
  Did you get you get any did you get any resolution from that at all?
• 47:04
  What came from it?
• 47:06
  It was uh it was a deathbed reconciliation, yeah.
• 47:09
  We uh I went in, I saw him, I went up to him and uh held his hand and and uh I told him I said whatever happened between us is in the past, and if you want, I'll help you get through this.
• 47:22
  And he squeezed my hand, and uh about a day and a half, two days, yeah, he passed.
• 47:30
  So that was uh that was just an amazing thing, and my aunt and I are still in awe about that today.
• 47:39
  Yeah.
• 47:40
  And uh never thought that would happen.
• 47:42
  Uh the crazy thing too is um, well, not crazy, but kind of a neat thing that happened in 1993 when I had had that conversation with my folks the next day.
• 47:53
  They had to drive me to the airport, and uh dad drove.
• 47:56
  And of course, not a word was spoken.
• 47:59
  And when I got to the airport and got out, my mother got out as well, and she gave me a hug and she whispered in my ear.
• 48:06
  She said, Nothing is forever.
• 48:08
  So all those years, those 23 years, you know, he would never he would never speak to me.
• 48:15
  And uh and but mom was right, though.
• 48:20
  She was right.
• 48:20
  Yeah, yeah, nothing is forever.
• 48:22
  And mom told you that.
• 48:23
  And I I came to realize too that if she hadn't died when she did, I would not have been there in time.
• 48:30
  That's right.
• 48:31
  To be with Dad.
• 48:32
  Yeah.
• 48:33
  And nor if she had uh died after him, you may have never had the opportunity to even have that reconciliation.
• 48:41
  So it's uh it's amazing how God works in our lives.
• 48:45
  And things like that, a lot of times people don't even recognize if they would just step back a little bit.
• 48:51
  They could say, hey, that's God working.
• 48:53
  And for some reason we don't always pay attention to it.
• 48:57
  We don't keep ourselves quiet and still enough to do that.
• 49:01
  So let's take your story now to where you transition back to William.
• 49:06
  Yeah, that's where you are now, and it took a lot of years to get here.
• 49:10
  I assume that you know, you said it was October of 2023 when you detransitioned.
• 49:16
  I assume I completed the process.
• 49:19
  You completed the process.
• 49:20
  Yeah.
• 49:20
  From 2015 on, uh, I had to be here for at least a year because uh probate took that long to settle my parents' estate.
• 49:28
  And uh so during that time I started going to this church that uh my uncle was going to at the time, and which was was Calvary.
• 49:35
  And um, you know, I had gone to a lot of churches uh in my life, and from early childhood, I was raised in the church.
• 49:43
  I I I never really listened to sermons or anything.
• 49:46
  Say, well, a lot of them were just speaking gibberish, nothing ever made me sense.
• 49:50
  And so I'm going to church at Calvary, and uh Pastor Willie, he had announced about probably 2016, I think.
• 50:02
  And I thought, well, I've never been baptized.
• 50:03
  I was baptized, supposedly baptized as a child as a Methodist, but that's not really baptism.
• 50:09
  And I thought, well, let's just go do this because I think I'm a Christian.
• 50:12
  You know, I I believed in Jesus.
• 50:14
  I believe in God, and I believe that Jesus died for my sins.
• 50:16
  And uh I had the basics, basic understanding.
• 50:21
  And so I went and got baptized.
• 50:23
  Well, obviously, I kept going to Calvary.
• 50:25
  And uh after a few more months, some things Pastor Willie was saying started to make some sense.
• 50:33
  Things I I started taking notice uh uh of a lot of things that were said, and one thing I realized that all the pastors and preachers who have TV personalities that I had heard before, they weren't really talking, none of them were ever talking about sin and hell and repentance.
• 50:53
  It was all feel good, you know.
• 50:55
  God is great, you're great.
• 50:58
  Yeah, God wants what's great for you, blah, blah, blah, blah.
• 51:02
  I had always heard that you know, Jesus died for your sins.
• 51:06
  I'd always heard that cavalierly nonchalantly.
• 51:10
  And that's kind of how it resided in my head.
• 51:12
  I had more of an intellectual belief, I think, than anything else.
• 51:16
  Uh, and it was a blind faith, really.
• 51:19
  But listening more to Pastor Willie, uh, I started hearing some things that um initially uh didn't necessarily weren't necessarily what I wanted to hear.
• 51:33
  And even so, because of that, somehow that lent credibility to what he was saying.
• 51:40
  You know, and I and I started paying more attention, and at the same time, I became a YouTube addict.
• 51:46
  And I started stumbling on to videos from John MacArthur.
• 51:51
  And Greg Comfort, Todd Friel, Steve Lawson, Bodie Balcom, uh, Darcy Sprohl.
• 52:00
  And the thing that I noticed was they're all preaching the same thing.
• 52:04
  Certainly the same core issues anyway.
• 52:07
  And I had never really understood this whole repentance and and uh hell and sin and the relationship.
• 52:16
  I didn't understand any consequences, right?
• 52:20
  And uh and I started getting into apologetics.
• 52:24
  I learned about evidence for God, a creator God and for Jesus, and uh I I heard somebody talking about it's Frank Turk, and I heard him talking about uh not just evidence for all this, but overwhelming evidence.
• 52:38
  And I'm thinking, Evans, wow, I mean my head wanted to explode.
• 52:41
  So I started exploring that and and looking at real scientific evidence and and uh archaeological evidence, DNA evidence.
• 52:49
  I mean, real hardcore stuff.
• 52:52
  And I no longer had just a blind faith.
• 52:56
  I I had a faith based on evidence, and I think that kind of helped push me along.
• 53:02
  And I gotta say, listen, I I looking back on this thing, I I can't help but think how dim witted I was that I just could not get this for so long.
• 53:10
  Yeah, it took it took so long, and uh I also have to just thank God, praise God for his patience.
• 53:20
  Man, uh it took a while.
• 53:23
  And we heard we heard there with Willie's clip how this ended, where it culminated.
• 53:29
  And that was with the beach baptism, where you decided that it was time to publicly display that I am William.
• 53:38
  And I thought, you know, the thing that made me tear up in that sermon was the words that you said, I want to look at you as a Christian brother.
• 53:48
  And that was really strong, and those were such good words.
• 53:52
  And you know, as we started this hour here tonight, I really wanted people to have a better understanding so that there could be maybe some compassion and some empathy so that we can change hearts and minds instead of just trying to legislate or put some type of policy from a politician that we need to have a caring, compassionate heart, but at the same time, there are some wacky things going on in our country right now.
• 54:26
  And I know you stand against those things that are going on with the transgender.
• 54:31
  We've got about a minute or a minute and a half.
• 54:33
  So I want you to talk about how that LGBTQ community has been hijacked, how what they are doing to our children, and then also tell everybody how they can get your book also.
• 54:46
  Well, uh, after you know, I had come to Christ, obviously I I realized eventually I I needed to detransition.
• 54:52
  And I gotta tell you, that was a three-year process.
• 54:55
  And even finding a surgeon was hard because every time I talked to somebody and told them that I was detransitioning, nobody wanted to have anything to do with me.
• 55:04
  It took me twice as long to find a surgeon as I thought it was gonna take.
• 55:07
  Because I had I needed to get a mastectomy, and uh I got way behind schedule.
• 55:13
  So it was as if there were roadblocks being put up, and even my own medical doctor was causing me grief, and um, they just didn't want me to do this, and so and that's one of the the uh side effects of what's going on today.
• 55:29
  Um I you know, I'm not necessarily a huge fan of kids, I don't really care for kids that much, honestly.
• 55:35
  But um, if I ever see a kid in danger or being abused or mistreated, I will go absolutely nuts.
• 55:44
  And what I see right now going on is making me go absolutely nuts.
• 55:50
  And so, as part of the book, uh, the last chapter was going to be um a treatise on what's going on today, how this all got started, because they are coming after the children, they're trans and the kids, Booker.
• 56:04
  Yep, and it's 100%.
• 56:06
  And uh one thing I want to call out is the American College of Pediatricians uh states that 80 to 95 percent of children with gender dysphoria will resolve if left unmedically and unsocially transitioned, and they will resolve in late adolescence.
• 56:28
  In other words, 80 in other words, more than three quarters of kids that experience this that will grow out of it on their own.
• 56:36
  And just let them be kids, let them be kids.
• 56:40
  Oh can we agree to that?
• 56:42
  Yeah, and uh William, I want to thank you so much and uh give everybody the the title of the book again.
• 56:48
  We have to go, our time is up.
• 56:50
  Unleash the political news hours coming up here in just a minute.
• 56:53
  But go ahead and give us the name of that book again and tell people where they could get it.
• 56:57
  Not not man enough to be a woman, you can get it on Amazon.
• 57:00
  Uh for now, uh it'll be on other platforms soon.
• 57:03
  Uh, in your story well.
• 57:05
  Um, and also you can follow me on Twitter if you like, uh, or X.
• 57:09
  It's uh at WM Allen A L L E N 2024 at WM Allen2024 on Twitter.
• 57:17
  You can follow me.
• 57:18
  William, thank you so much for doing this.
• 57:20
  I really appreciate it.
• 57:22
  I hope that people have learned something here in this hour.
• 57:26
  And I want you to remember that you were told two thousand years ago that you are the salt of the earth and salt without flavor, it has no value.
• 57:34
  So whatever you do, keep being salty.
• 57:37
  Have yourself a great night.
• 57:38
  There is only one truth.
• 57:40
  You've been listening to The Truth Be Told with Booker Scott on America Out Loud.