Latest / Honey Badger Radio / Are you abrosexual? Korean feminists prefer patriarchy! Submit to Woke AI | Maintaining Frame 88

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Are you abrosexual? Korean feminists prefer patriarchy! Submit to Woke AI | Maintaining Frame 88 · Honey Badger Radio

• 0:00
  Hello everyone, and welcome to Honey Badger Radio. My name is Briana who
• 0:04
  with Alison and this is maintaining frame number eighty eight. Are you a bro
• 0:08
  sexual? Preinfeminists prefer patriarchy? Submit to woke? AI. I guess we
• 0:15
  have like a little bit of a variety of topics talk about. Yes,
• 0:21
  we have we have a we have a schmorgash board. Great minds think Alake.
• 0:28
  Oh yeah, that sounds a lot better. Now did you change mics?
• 0:32
  Yeah? I did, but let's do it again. Oh no,
• 0:36
  yeah, yeah, you're a little lower, but it sounds good. Okay,
• 0:42
  Well, I mean I can always increase the gain a bit here.
• 0:47
  There we go. That sounds good, all right, Okay, then then
• 0:51
  then this is what it shall be. Yeah, it was. It's a
• 0:55
  little smortgage board. It's a buffet of items, shall we say, at
• 1:00
  a boat, A little bit of this, a tap, a little bit
• 1:03
  of this, appetizers. Oh, it's a poo poo platter of poo poo.
• 1:10
  It's a poo poop you ever you know what a poo poo platter is?
• 1:15
  I just I used to when I used to eat like lots of Chinese
• 1:18
  food. You could get a poo poo platter. It was kind of like
• 1:22
  I think, it was just like a bunch of appetizers, like little bits
• 1:26
  of appetizers. So if you have to try, you know this or that,
• 1:29
  it's a poo poo platter. That's what it is. Poo poo spelled
• 1:33
  p u p u, you know. But it smelled good. It didn't
• 1:38
  smell like I got it. It was a good poo poo platter. Where's
• 1:46
  not such a good poo poo platter? Uh? Yeah, less, it's
• 1:49
  more like poo poo, yes, but anyway with oh yeah, yeah,
• 1:55
  the bad poo. So let's say today's Monday. It feels it feels like
• 2:01
  a Wednesday to me, I don't know, yeah already, like you just
• 2:06
  it does. It feels like, oh my god, the week is just
• 2:08
  beginning. I'm just like, oh, so much emotional labor that you've done.
• 2:12
  That it feels like it's I have done my share of emotional labor and
• 2:16
  that's true. Yeah, okay, well we're about to do some more.
• 2:22
  Yeah, So do you want to thing the things in the meantime? Yeah,
• 2:24
  sure, I will thing the things. Okay, So everybody please send
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  your super chows through feed the Badger dot Com slash just the tip. Do
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  best way to send your messages to us. So tell us we're not screaming
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  into the void by doing by sending your super chows it feed the Badger dot
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  Com slash just the tip. We are also doing our monthly fundraiser it feed
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  the Badger dot Com slash support. So make sure we can keep giving you
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  this delectable content, this poop poop platter of poo poo. Yes, yes,
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  feed the Badger dot com slash support the you know, support the draft
• 3:06
  the Badgers m m of pooh. We just make sure I got the uh
• 3:13
  yeah, yeah, I have the super chow stuff open. So okay,
• 3:15
  if you put a super chowd through, I will give you a Badger chan
• 3:19
  and read it for you and a shout out to the Rumble Gang as always.
• 3:23
  Yeah, thanks for us over there. We're getting We're getting a certain
• 3:29
  amount of people through Twitter too, so thank you to the yea Twitter.
• 3:34
  Yeah, I'm trying to figure out how to connect the chat I think Twitter
• 3:37
  needs. I mean, it wasn't new, but it's hard to connect the
• 3:40
  chat to Twitter. It might be made like Elon might address that in the
• 3:46
  future. I guess whoever he has is the CEO. But but yeah,
• 3:51
  I did that. There's not much chatting going on on Twitter at this point.
• 3:55
  It's not really focused on that. It seems to be focused more on
• 3:58
  like ground tables, people talking rather than texting. So I know that that
• 4:03
  is a bit different. But you know, shout out to everybody who's watching
• 4:08
  us on Twitter, thank you for tuning in. And uh yeah, feed
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  the badger dot com slash just the tip to send us a message and give
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  us the full benefit of whatever tip you want to send us. And feed
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  the badge dot com slash support to keep the poop poop humming. Now we're
• 4:27
  gonna get a bunch of poop poo emojis in the chat. I even made
• 4:32
  myself cringe. That's yeah. Okay, So let's get into uh the So
• 4:40
  we got three things, right, how much time do you maybe we could
• 4:43
  like like set up a certain amount of time to devote to each thing?
• 4:46
  Oh, do we have any like uh bingo stuff either, like that might
• 4:50
  be I didn't. Yeah, that's okay, never mind, no bingo today,
• 4:55
  guys. But yeah, let's Uh, let's see how quickly we can
• 5:00
  get through the cut, like maybe put it at like half an hour.
• 5:03
  Yeah, okay, yeah, let's bring it up. Yeah. Oh,
• 5:09
  it's so it's so long. It's like it's basically a story. And this
• 5:13
  is the thing that annoys me about like a lot of these I don't know,
• 5:17
  our articles that are kind of feminist articles, is that they always unfold
• 5:21
  like some massive it's like war and peace, and they know and they don't
• 5:27
  get to the point until, like I don't know, when it's actually kind
• 5:30
  of sprinkled in, and then by the time it's over, I guess it's
• 5:31
  like a magic spell that just takes a long time to cast, like some
• 5:35
  kind of ritual. It takes hours, and then by the end you're supposed
• 5:39
  to be completely transformed by the experience. Anyway, I you know, yeah,
• 5:45
  I know exactly what you mean. It's just endless and yeah, in
• 5:47
  order, let me just cut right to the chase, because let me just
• 5:53
  cut right to the cut, Cut right to the cut, all right.
• 5:56
  So women don't want to pair up and have chill in this society that gives
• 6:01
  them all the freedom and mobility they could ever ask for, right, So
• 6:06
  they don't want to actually take really take part in continuing this society that gives
• 6:13
  women freedom. That's what they're saying here. They say, oh, we
• 6:15
  don't want to support patriarchy, but this society that they live in right now
• 6:21
  is the least patriarchal according to their estimation or whatever they call patriarchal. I
• 6:29
  don't buy into that, but according to what they term patriarchal, for feminists,
• 6:33
  this is the least patriarchal society ever in human existence, and they refuse
• 6:41
  to perpetuate it by pairing up and having children. So what they're saying is
• 6:46
  that patriarchy is essential for human reproduction. What they term to be patriarchy is
• 6:53
  essential for human reproduction. This is what they're saying. At the end of
• 6:56
  the day, Feminists do not want to support a w world of women's freedoms.
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  They don't want to have men, they don't want to pair up with
• 7:02
  men, they don't want to have children. Therefore, whatever society that has
• 7:08
  constructed the situation where women have freedom, they're using that freedom to essentially ensure
• 7:14
  that it implodes. Do you see what I'm saying, Yes, of course,
• 7:19
  yeah, I mean it's a self defeating set of ideas. It's like
• 7:24
  a woman moment on the scale of generations for as long as they last,
• 7:29
  which is literally one. It's like we have achieved a society in which women
• 7:36
  enjoy the greatest amount of freedom and influence. Now I would argue that I
• 7:42
  think that's probably illusionary, but that's what they think, according to their own
• 7:47
  scale, the greatest amount of freedom and influence, and they don't want to
• 7:54
  breed in it, and they don't want them to do anything to continue it
• 7:59
  because a parent women don't breed in freedom, they breed in patriarchy. Okay,
• 8:05
  well, self defeating much, yes, So I just wanted to lay
• 8:09
  that out because I think it just cuts right to the chase. Yeah,
• 8:11
  they are determining that this society of freedom is not going to perpetuate itself into
• 8:16
  the future. Congratulations Korean feminists. I guess the big lesson we'll learn from
• 8:22
  all of this is that the human race needs patriarchy to reproduce well well as
• 8:28
  you give them a little background. So this is this article from The New
• 8:31
  Yorker. I guess they have a sub page called the Cut and it's entitled
• 8:37
  A World Without Men. The women of South Korea's four B movement aren't fighting
• 8:43
  the patriarchy, they're leaving it behind entirely. So we're talking about women in
• 8:50
  South Korea who are basically going MiG tao or wig taw. And how of
• 8:58
  the New York Mage or the cut frame this. Imagine if there was a
• 9:05
  group of men theoretically that, like I don't know, decided they were going
• 9:09
  to walk away from marriage and relationships. I know you couldn't dream of such
• 9:15
  a thing actually happening, But if it did happen in the off chance,
• 9:20
  how would it be reported on? Like, what would what would the media
• 9:22
  say about that? Uh? Just you know, just grasping here. No,
• 9:28
  I think we I think I get where you're I think I get it.
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  Also, what I've noticed is that when men talk about leaving relationships entirely,
• 9:39
  it's almost like there's the initial flush of these are demons, and then
• 9:45
  it goes silent because I don't think the media wants to spread that message.
• 9:50
  Yeah, this message it wants to spread, though, So we're going to
• 9:54
  have a lovingly, a loving dissertation of the choices behind women. Decide that
• 10:00
  men who are part of the society in which women are most free are the
• 10:03
  least desirable. That's what it really comes down to. They don't want to
• 10:07
  perpetuate a society and at what that gives women freedom? And they don't find
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  the men who are raised and part of a society that gives them freedom to
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  be attractive. So let's continue, all right. So this article is written
• 10:22
  by huh they what oh I said? I said, just read, just
• 10:28
  read. Oh yeah, yeah yeah. So this article is written by Anna
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  Louis Louise Sussman. She goes she, I'll just go into it. Young
• 10:35
  Me's childhood was a difficult one. The twenty five year old nurse was born
• 10:39
  to a poor family indigus Or, South Korea, known for being one of
• 10:43
  the most conservative cities in the country. Young Me's mom left the home when
• 10:48
  Young Me was young to escape her husband's physical abuse, leaving her and her
• 10:54
  sister behind with him and their paternal grandmother. When she was five, her
• 10:58
  eight year old sister started losing her hair from stress. As she grew older,
• 11:03
  Young Me found herself depressed, unsure of what her future held, and
• 11:05
  financially unstable. In Korea's patriarchal society, in which women are generally expected to
• 11:11
  defer to their fathers and to adhere to rigid beauty standards. She felt like
• 11:16
  a perpetual victim, obsessed by the wrongs done to her by her father and
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  pressured into maintaining her appearance in order to please men. Despite her meager budget
• 11:24
  as a nursing student, she purchased new clothes each season, spending a lot
• 11:30
  of money on cheap or quality clothes from H and M. She wore makeup
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  religiously. I could not go outside without my any makeup. I felt ashamed
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  of my face, she said. I had this pressure of wanting to look
• 11:41
  beautiful and wanting to be desirable physically or sexually. Okay, of course,
• 11:46
  I'm just gonna put out there. We have to take all of this like
• 11:50
  without you know, without any evidence or anything. It's just we Yeah,
• 11:56
  we got to take it at phase value, full stop, like all of
• 11:58
  this, everything about her mom and her dad and everything, all of it.
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  The pressure not to wear makeup was now patriarchal, like the condemnation of
• 12:07
  women. Remember the whole pickmy thing. The pictures were like, how don't
• 12:11
  need makeup? Are the ones? Yeah that was patriarch Yeah, that's patriarchal
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  too, While scrolling through Twitter in twenty eighteen, Young Me came across footage
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  of protests taking place on the streets of Soul in South Korea, where cases
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  of femicide, revenge porn, and dating violence are widespread. A surgeon spy
• 12:31
  cam sex crimes overwhelmingly committed by men had mostly rest well. Actually, I
• 12:35
  appreciate the fact that they're even saying overwhelmingly committed, because it at least suggests
• 12:39
  that some women do it too. But I would have presumed that it's probably
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  like not, you know, that this is still an overestimation. Had mostly
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  resulted in fines and suspended jail sentences if they were prosecuted at all. That
• 12:54
  was not the case, however, for one twenty five year old woman who
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  had taken a non sensual photo of a nude male model at art school and
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  posted it online. She was sentenced to ten months in prison and court ordered
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  sexual violence counseling. The demonstrations were a reaction to the blatant hypocrisy whoa whoa,
• 13:13
  whoa whoa. So apparently there was a story of a woman who took
• 13:18
  a picture of a nude male model, and she was sentenced to prison and
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  they're calling it hypocritical because there is a claim that there are these kinds of
• 13:31
  things happen all over the place, but they still were resulted in fines and
• 13:37
  suspended jail sentences. So well, I don't I don't get it, Like
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  there must be more to that story. I'm not even gonna accept that at
• 13:43
  face value. Young me was moved by the solid Airita rate that sex crime
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  law is not supposed to be used against women. Yes, women shouldn't have
• 13:56
  to get consent from them, Like, what is this like? Honestly,
• 14:01
  this paragraph is total bullshit. A woman. They are having a protest over
• 14:07
  a woman being charged with a crime that she actually did. What is your
• 14:13
  problem? Seriously, this is what you're protesting. You're mental. I just
• 14:24
  wanted to say that because this is ridiculous. She actually did the crime,
• 14:30
  she should do the time. It doesn't matter if most men are charged with
• 14:33
  it, because we don't probably don't know if most men are the ones.
• 14:37
  The majority of people who commit it are men, but the majority perhaps are
• 14:41
  charged with it, even though I have seen statistics suggesting that the majority of
• 14:45
  people who engage in revenge born are women. Right, fair enough, it
• 14:50
  doesn't matter she did. Why she's not exempt from it because more men do
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  it. That's not how law works. This is mere woman moment. This
• 15:03
  is this whole thing is a woman moment. All right, I'll keep going.
• 15:07
  Young Me was moved by the solidarity that she saw, but there was
• 15:11
  one thing she found perplexing. Many of the women at the protest shaved their
• 15:15
  heads on camera. As she began to follow more feminist Twitter accounts, young
• 15:18
  Me understood this was a public act of rejection of those same aesthetic expectations in
• 15:24
  Boson Korean women that have made the country a leader in grooming products and plastic
• 15:28
  surgery. She began to realize that, you know, men do not do
• 15:33
  that. Men do not feel the pressure to buy clothes every season or wear
• 15:35
  makeup. Yeah, but who's putting that pressure on women? But just like
• 15:39
  everywhere else, you know, like this is so weird. It's like women,
• 15:48
  Like, sorry, ladies, but most of the beauty centers that you
• 15:50
  claim are put on you by men are put on you by other women that
• 15:54
  are sexually competing with you or the top men. And if you just altered
• 15:58
  your expectations, you'd probably be fine. Like, honestly, it's not it's
• 16:03
  not men doing this. Men are too easy to satisfy in my opinion.
• 16:08
  And in Korea, I assume it's like China and Japan, where you know,
• 16:14
  there the beauty industry is massive, but again not because men are imposing
• 16:18
  it, because women choose it, you know, like South Korea is probably
• 16:22
  one of the more materialistic countries. I mean, she's complaining about shopping in
• 16:27
  h and M. I mean, isn't that kind of an expensive or I
• 16:32
  mean it's not Target. She's not getting Walmart blouses, right, She's not
• 16:37
  going to fucking Marshals or whatever. I don't know what's a cheap place coals?
• 16:41
  Well, just thre like, I don't understand this huge pressure? Like
• 16:45
  am I am? I? Like? Am I completely patriarchy proof? Yeah?
• 16:49
  You are? Or you're completely absorbed. You've absorbed the patriarchy completely and
• 16:55
  it doesn't It no longer faces it no longer affects me. Yes, you've
• 17:00
  internalized it to to the point where it's become a singularity. So I've been
• 17:04
  sternalized the paper tarky so much that I've become a complete slob who doesn't care.
• 17:10
  Yeah, coming off the other end, Yeah, just okay, that
• 17:15
  that makes perfect sense to me, Like, I don't give a fuck at
• 17:18
  this point, you know. Aside, if anybody knows, I know,
• 17:23
  there was one guy who watches US sometimes who lives in South Korea, and
• 17:30
  he was in the chat. He's in the chat sometimes, but you know,
• 17:33
  the time difference makes it hard for him to see these things live.
• 17:37
  How bad is feminism in South Korea? I think it's really bad there.
• 17:41
  I think it's probably one of the worst. I know. The men's I
• 17:44
  know, the MRAs there are really like, you know, it's almost like
• 17:48
  it's like India where they're like really prominent. There's a lot of this going
• 17:51
  on, and that would like I can only assume that that's because it's it
• 17:53
  is in a way a response to how feminist it's gotten. What were you
• 17:59
  gonna say, Have I seen what? Well, Okay, there's a couple
• 18:03
  of things I want to say. The South Korea separation between men and women's
• 18:10
  politics is the worst in the world. Apparently that's right. We did.
• 18:14
  We looked at that. Yet they're speed running into into like extreme liberalism,
• 18:22
  you know, not I don't know, collapse, maybe yes, you know,
• 18:26
  let me call it what it is, extreme neoliberalism, like olibs.
• 18:33
  They're becoming the absolute jack boot neilibs of the universe. And men are going
• 18:38
  into soft conservatism, like you're going the other way. Yeah, but not
• 18:44
  that much. It's very slight, not that much. It's the big well
• 18:48
  in South Korea, they're sort of diving there. The men are are are
• 18:52
  not taking it or something. I don't know, but anyway, it's it's
• 18:55
  the most extreme divergence in all the politics. Yeah, so yeah, there's
• 19:00
  done. The women. The women are going so far uh like, they're
• 19:06
  going so far left. They're basically heading towards North Korea. In fact,
• 19:12
  here's a here's an interesting uh bit of trivia. South Korea has the worst
• 19:19
  replacement rates in the world, worse than North Korea. Worse than North Korea.
• 19:25
  North Korea is making more babies, like they're not they're not good,
• 19:30
  but it's but they're better than South Korea. And it got bad enough in
• 19:34
  North Korea that Kim Jong un gave a tearful speech begging women to have babies.
• 19:40
  So even like the most authoritarian nuts nut job dictator has to ask women
• 19:45
  to please make babies, you know, yeah, what we're gonna say.
• 19:51
  Yeah, even North Korea isn't Handmaiden's tale guys, Yes, even North Korea
• 19:56
  hasn't become the Handmaid's tale. Okay, so I actually found this article from
• 20:00
  CNN. Over the past decade, South Korean men lead the world's male beauty
• 20:07
  market, which doesn't surprise me. Like they both South Korea has this really
• 20:14
  big thing about this kind of ethereal beauty for both sexes. Mm hmm,
• 20:18
  I mean honestly, like, if you want to be go totally patriarchal,
• 20:22
  you could just do what I do. Why don't you just become slobs South
• 20:26
  Korea? You know each other again? Just slob it out, like,
• 20:30
  who the fuck? Who is this this woman? What's her name? Again?
• 20:34
  Have you tried being a slob? Like? Yeah, right, Like
• 20:41
  instead of just rejecting all men, why don't you be a slob and see
• 20:45
  if there are any men who you know wouldn't mind slobbing with you, because
• 20:49
  there may be, there may be, you know this, it might be
• 20:55
  possible. Okay, let's continue, all right, Uh, let's see soon.
• 21:03
  Young Me shaved her head too and stopped wearing makeup, joining the so
• 21:07
  called escape the corset movement happening amongst young women in South Korea. The movement,
• 21:14
  which first gained popularity in twenty eighteen, saw Korean women publicly turn away
• 21:18
  from society imposed beauty standards by cutting their hair short and going bare faced.
• 21:25
  Young Me was not alone. In twenty nineteen, a survey found There's a
• 21:27
  Link that twenty four percent of women in their twenties reported cutting back their spending
• 21:32
  on beauty products in the previous year, with many saying they no longer felt
• 21:36
  they needed to put in the effort. This eventually led to led Young Me
• 21:41
  to four B, a smaller set of growing movement amongst Korean women. For
• 21:45
  me, sounds like a K pop band? Doesn't it like that? Like
• 21:48
  isn't isn't that like the kind of names that those K pop bands have?
• 21:52
  Or B and this like four ball chicks? Get it? Four B B
• 21:56
  is in bald? Does that? I think that would work anyway? Sorry?
• 22:02
  Uh? Or four be shorthand for four Korean words that all start with
• 22:07
  B or no. The first no behn is the refusal of heterosexual marriage.
• 22:12
  These thechulsan is the refusal of childbirth. Beyond I or beyon a is saying
• 22:21
  no to dating, and be set to is the rejection of heterosexual sexual relationships.
• 22:27
  It is both an ideological stance and a lifestyle, and many women I
• 22:30
  spoke to extend their boycotts to nearly all the men in their lives, including
• 22:33
  distancing themselves from male friends. I don't know why I'm laughing at this.
• 22:37
  It's so retarded from all the men who create. So you can join a
• 22:45
  political lesbian club and shave your head, and that's like a lot of effort.
• 22:51
  Like, seriously, why don't they just do my route. I became
• 22:52
  a slob, found a man, and here I am, like, I
• 22:57
  literally I met John nothing. I was wearing flannel and army boots and jeans.
• 23:03
  Okay, like, you can do it. You don't have to look
• 23:07
  like an ethereal ghost creature. Just just the issue is that you have to
• 23:15
  accept a man who doesn't want that, and you may not want the man
• 23:19
  who doesn't want that. And also, shaving your head is a lot of
• 23:22
  damn work. It's a lot of work shaving your head, being angry,
• 23:26
  going to protests, getting attention this new way in your twenties. I guess
• 23:34
  she has the energy for that shit in her twenties. Sure, yeah,
• 23:37
  I know, I know, But like, oh my gosh, like,
• 23:41
  I don't know. It's it makes me sad, actually, it actually it
• 23:45
  really makes me sad that that these women are doing this themselves, but they
• 23:52
  want attention, Like, honestly, this is just another way to get attention.
• 23:56
  Making themselves victims of patriarchy is just an another way to get attention from
• 24:00
  men. Like really, honestly, if they didn't want attention for men,
• 24:06
  they would just do what I did, just just fucking forget it, like
• 24:10
  no, no, no makeup, no, I'm just going to do my
• 24:11
  thing, live my life, and what happens happens. But this isn't what
• 24:17
  they're doing because they still are addicted to the attention. Okay, yep,
• 24:22
  yep. So I got some super I want to read the super childs because
• 24:25
  I did get I did get some and I missed one of them. It
• 24:26
  disappeared before I could like put it up there, so uh, let me
• 24:30
  read it really quick Carlos with an exclamation mark. So I got to say
• 24:36
  it like the Carlos gave us five dollars and says, oh, look,
• 24:38
  the women's are going their own way. For the one hundred and fiftieth time,
• 24:42
  Lulls. It is a little sad, isn't it? And then Richard
• 24:48
  Bierre gives us five bucks and says, women in South Korea are so empowered
• 24:52
  that to keep up with the workload of being empowered, some are getting an
• 24:55
  intravenous drip to keep them functioning. Eya feminism and the power it brings.
• 25:02
  And then I also have a super chat. Let me just put that up
• 25:07
  on the screen there from Gary Thomas, and he says, how feminists for
• 25:15
  five dollars? How feminist is South Korea? Well, the first female president
• 25:18
  of South Korea was arrested for being a member of a literal feminist cult.
• 25:23
  So there's that. Was it like a cult, like like they have like
• 25:26
  a sacrificial daggers and goblets and stuff and like hoods, and they did seances
• 25:30
  and danced around an idol or preferably won a bapha met or moloch. Was
• 25:37
  it that kind of cult? Because I mean, if you're going to get
• 25:40
  arrested for being in a cult, it should look cool. You know,
• 25:45
  you should have red robes with gold fringe. I'm just saying, or whatever
• 25:48
  the Korean colors are. That sounds a little Chinese anyway. So that's the
• 25:55
  super chat. So I keep going alson, are you there, mute?
• 26:02
  Yes, I'm mute it sorry, okay, no, no, keep going
• 26:03
  like if you can't hear me, just read all right, all right,
• 26:07
  all right, all right, I just want to make sure okay, yeah,
• 26:08
  no, I know, we got to get this like timing, right,
• 26:11
  It's just yeah, sometimes you keep reading and I want to talk.
• 26:15
  It's just a matter of we do not in the same room, really,
• 26:18
  all right, Yeah, that's true. Through open chat groups like cacaw talk,
• 26:22
  Young me connected with other feminists. Indigo, I'm probably butchering all of
• 26:27
  these Korean pronunciations, by the way, where she lived with her mother while
• 26:32
  attending nursing school, soon meeting each other offline, it's so easy to recognize
• 26:37
  each other with short hair, she said, she stopped seeing her friends from
• 26:40
  high school in middle school, whose conversation still revolved around makeup, clothes and
• 26:44
  boys. Those those poor victims. When we met last November at a cafe
• 26:51
  in Seul, where she's been living for the last two years, she was
• 26:53
  bare face and dressed comfortably in loose jeans and a white fleece jacket. Her
• 26:57
  hair was long enough to be pulled back into a ponytail, as if she'd
• 27:00
  grown tired of people asking about her short hair at her nursing job, but
• 27:04
  it was tucked into a white baseball cap. Feminism, she said, had
• 27:07
  helped her recognize that it was patriarchy that was the problem, not her,
• 27:11
  and that the bad things that happened in your life are not your fault.
• 27:15
  Yes, the Thetans. It's a fucking this is how could this be more
• 27:19
  like a cult? Honestly, oh man, it's so it's so like I'm
• 27:30
  I'm sorry, but like the Eastern, like the Oriental countries should never have
• 27:37
  been subject to this crap. We should have nipped in the butt in the
• 27:40
  West. And now I'm sorry China, Well, China probably doesn't have this
• 27:44
  problem, but Japan and Korea I'm sorry, you know, I mean China
• 27:48
  might have this problem. We would never know for sure because it's it's China.
• 27:52
  But I'm sorry, guys, I'm sorry that Korean women in their twenties
• 27:56
  are just like so angry at being well, you know, it's just this.
• 28:00
  I don't know how many women are like this, but obviously not well
• 28:04
  of them, because she's defooling feminism is yeah, I mean, she's saying
• 28:08
  it's a subgroup within a subgroup, so it's probably like a Mike like a
• 28:15
  radical feminist Nick Wigtau type of thing. It just sounds like political lesbianism over
• 28:21
  there though, because they're saying no heterosexual relationships, which is a no heterosexual
• 28:26
  sex. So they're probably like scissoring each other right now. You know,
• 28:33
  I'm sorry to be crude, but I don't know what else to call it.
• 28:37
  Anyway, I got another or they're stabbing each other with scissors, or
• 28:40
  they're stabbing each other, yeah, with things. I got another thing from
• 28:44
  Richard. So Richard Bierre gives us five bucks and says South Korea has a
• 28:47
  lower birth rate than Japan point zero point eight four versus one point four or
• 28:52
  something like that. Yeah, I understand. South Korea is the lowest in
• 28:55
  the world from what I understand. So anyway, let me see. So
• 29:03
  when we met and her hair was long enough from a feminism, she said,
• 29:08
  yeah, okay, here we go. That was so basically, nothing
• 29:11
  is your fault. It's the fault of patriarchy for young me and many others
• 29:15
  who subscribe to its basic premises. For me, or practicing BEHN is the
• 29:21
  only path by which a Korean woman today can live autonomously in their view,
• 29:26
  have you have you replicated all the utilities that men do, because you're not
• 29:32
  living autonomously, you're just living without men, like, without any social relationship
• 29:38
  to men, which you know what, our society has decided that in your
• 29:42
  society has decided that's perfectly okay. However, I will point out that you
• 29:48
  are the ones who are going to cause the destruction of the very society that
• 29:52
  gives you this freedom. You know, you might want to consider that at
• 29:59
  least for like future generations of women, because I mean, essentially what you're
• 30:03
  doing is you're creating this society which gives women the freedom all of these freedoms.
• 30:08
  You're making it non competitive, so you're ensuring that this society will fail
• 30:14
  and will be replaced by a society that either well probably doesn't do this.
• 30:21
  Okay, that's what you're doing, but you know, I guess that's within
• 30:25
  your right. It's just gonna really suck for the future women or I mean,
• 30:30
  either they're gonna be dead or we are probably going to have to go
• 30:33
  back to a much more strict patriarchy quote unquote, or you just figure this
• 30:41
  out and this woman could be like, you know, I'm not happy with
• 30:45
  my life. I'm not happy with my life choices. I'm gonna make different
• 30:48
  choices, and I'm going to see that I am responsible for my life and
• 30:52
  I am responsible for my choices, not the Thetans, not the Jews,
• 30:57
  and not patriarchy. Mm hmm, all right, So in their view,
• 31:11
  Korean men are essentially beyond redemption, and Korean culture on the whole is hopelessly
• 31:18
  patriarchal, often downright misogynistic. A twenty sixteen survey by the Ministry of Gender
• 31:25
  Equality and Family what those two things like? I'm sorry, I'm sorry the
• 31:32
  Ministry of Gender Equality and Family. It doesn't sound like it, but that's
• 31:40
  kind of an oxymoron. Anyway, we found the incidence of intimate partner violence
• 31:47
  at forty one point five percent, significantly higher than the global average of thirty
• 31:52
  percent. While four b's adherents may hope to change society through demonstrations and online
• 31:57
  activism and by modeling an alternative lifestyle to other women, what is there then
• 32:06
  they they are not trying to change the men whom they view as their oppressors.
• 32:10
  It is too soon to tell whether this movement can survive and thrive over
• 32:14
  the long haul. It can't. It's doomed. Like like if you if
• 32:17
  it carries itself to its logical illusion, the whole country is dead. You're
• 32:22
  gonna kill everybody because of your selfish, like self important, narcissistic bullshit.
• 32:30
  You're gonna You're gonna end the entire race of Koreans or whatever. The nation
• 32:36
  is done, or it'll get so weak that Kim Jong un is just gonna
• 32:40
  move in and take it because like, because there's too few of you.
• 32:45
  Again, the the what we've seen here is that they are objecting to the
• 32:50
  fact that a woman was held to the same legal standard as a man.
• 32:52
  And they're also objecting to the fact that beauty products exist and somehow how they
• 33:00
  feel compelled to use them, Like she can't take responsibility for her choices,
• 33:05
  she has to blame patriarchy, she has to blame men, as if men
• 33:09
  are forcing her to do this. No they're not. And also I see
• 33:17
  that this is a little bit like they don't say the actual percentage rate of
• 33:22
  men versus women with the domestic violence, so I'm wondering, No, they're
• 33:27
  just saying, I mean, there's no They did that with the UH with
• 33:31
  with police too, and the implication is that the policemen are doing it.
• 33:37
  Actually, no, it's the police that are being battered by their spouses for
• 33:40
  whatever reason. So we don't know that that statistic is meaningless because it could
• 33:46
  be driven by Korean women. Absolutely, it's it's it's a it is a
• 33:52
  meaningless statistic, like the fact that they just say intimate partner violence suggest gender
• 33:59
  neutrality, but it doesn't go into specifics and what the It's set up so
• 34:04
  that people who read this stat will just assume it's men beating women without even
• 34:08
  like exploring it any deeper, right, I mean, that's what That's what
• 34:14
  the editor of miss magazine said. Domestic violence is just a nice way of
• 34:20
  saying wife beating, even though it's it's obviously not. And why would we
• 34:27
  why would we assume that men and women in another country are any different than
• 34:32
  men and women in this country. So if we know that the data for
• 34:36
  domestic violence in the United States or in Canada or in the UK are like,
• 34:40
  you know, slanted to make it appear as though men are beating their
• 34:45
  wives when in fact it's reciprocal in most cases, and women initiate most of
• 34:52
  the time, right, which is not the same. It's like I'm saying
• 34:54
  they'll start it, but in most cases when it comes to domestic it's like,
• 35:00
  uh, you know, it's both men and women that that can be
• 35:02
  abusive, but women are overall more likely to initiate, and they're more there's
• 35:08
  more of this in lesbian relationships than there are gay relationships. And why wouldn't
• 35:14
  that also be true for any other country like South Korea unless you think South
• 35:19
  Korean people are just like genetically different to the point where their behaviors are different.
• 35:24
  All right, So I'm looking at predictors of sexual coercion, which is
• 35:34
  based on a large study of dating violence among college students throughout the world.
• 35:43
  I'm looking at South Korea. So it did it? Did it sampled different
• 35:47
  locations. So South Korean men, those who have sex as part of their
• 35:55
  relationship, twenty seven point nine percent of them report some form of sexual assault,
• 36:05
  either for sex or verbal coersion. And I'm going to take a look
• 36:09
  and see what the female rate is. Give me a second, Okay,
• 36:17
  that's women, and women report thirty one point nine percent. So we're looking
• 36:23
  at and I often look at the sexual coersion rate because it's it's the one
• 36:30
  that it's really difficult to say that somebody's preemptively raping you before you get raped
• 36:37
  by before you rape them. But generally this reflects the level of violence,
• 36:44
  so it is pretty high. But it looks like the South Korean women are
• 36:50
  engaging in a lot of sexually coercive behavior, which means that they're probably engaging
• 36:53
  in a lot of physically violent behavior as well. So once again looking at
• 37:00
  a problem that's mutual, men and women do it to each other. It's
• 37:04
  being framed as a patriarchal issue, reframed is a patriarchal issue because this is
• 37:09
  one of their big This is one of their big weapons, the idea that
• 37:14
  domestic violence isn't symmetrical or even when you look at the specifics of domestic violence,
• 37:20
  that women aren't engaging in more coercive control. Right, they use this
• 37:24
  as a weapon in order to assert patriarchy, and it's not true. So
• 37:32
  now we have their entire victimhood complex consists of one incident where a woman was
• 37:37
  treated like a man in terms of their criminal behavior. The fact that makeup
• 37:44
  exists and they have the choice to use it and also domestic violence, which
• 37:49
  is mostly likely symmetrical in South Korea like it is everywhere. Congratulations, this
• 37:57
  is a complete lie so far. Maybe it's going to come back with something
• 38:01
  really really, you know, just a slam dunk so far. No,
• 38:08
  so far, No, let's continue, all right. The practicing del bi
• 38:21
  haan means you're elimiting the risks that come from heterosexual marriage or dating. Yao
• 38:25
  Woon, a twenty six year old office worker, told me on a cafe
• 38:30
  terrace in the seaside southern city of Busan. We talked over coffee and pastries
• 38:35
  along with Yao Woun's girlfriend and another of their friends, all of them wearing
• 38:39
  wide black pants and black sweaters and sporting crop short haircuts. Those risks,
• 38:44
  yah Woon alluded to, might seem familiar treating career for child rearing and housework,
• 38:49
  as well as the threat of physical violence, but in Korea, Yah
• 38:52
  Wun said, marriage presents an existential threat, so it seems interesting that they're
• 38:57
  able to sit in a cafe on a terrace in the seaside southern city of
• 39:01
  Busan and taught and well over coffee and pastries, complaining about how awful it
• 39:07
  is to live in Korea as a woman. I mean, like, do
• 39:12
  they not even see how stupid that is. It's like I met with this
• 39:16
  or oppressed lady and we went to a Manhattan cafe and we we ate,
• 39:22
  you know, bagels and and and we have wine. And she told me
• 39:28
  how awful it is dollar tuna poke balls, Yeah right, thirty five dollar
• 39:34
  billiniates And then we slapped the ass of the waiter even though he told us
• 39:39
  not to. But we're girls, we pinched it too. I bet,
• 39:43
  I bet everything is expensive in cities like Butsan and say a soul. I
• 39:49
  bet. But anyway, because only somebody that is this like removed from reality
• 39:59
  could find that they're life is that hard. They're defending somebody who, according
• 40:02
  to their own logic, is a sexual offender. Like this is literally they
• 40:07
  are defending their saying, oh, we're gonna go march because a woman was
• 40:13
  held to a standard of expectation, expectation that she respect a man's consent.
• 40:19
  This is what patriarchy is to them. Men's right to say no sexually to
• 40:23
  them right, and also apparently domestic violence, which they don't accept that women
• 40:29
  do to men. So they are destroying this free society that gives women the
• 40:35
  ability to sit at a table in a seaside resource and resort, enjoying modern
• 40:43
  utilities and the modern h distribution of goods and complain about how awful their life
• 40:52
  is based on a bunch of lies, like this is an entirely constructed reality.
• 40:59
  Yeah, and again, she's just getting more attention from men by shaving
• 41:02
  her damn head and being bitchy. This is all about attention to men.
• 41:07
  I was thinking about this because when I was with my progression of my romantic
• 41:15
  life, as I found my husband, I'm like, Okay, I like
• 41:17
  you. That's it. It's done. Now I'm going to get on with
• 41:21
  the business of being myself. Whereas when I look at women like Hannah Cox
• 41:25
  wear a lot of makeup or that other creature manifestell, they are stuck.
• 41:34
  You know, it's really ironic. They call other women pick mees because they
• 41:37
  are stuck in the position of being picked in protest that feeling of being picked
• 41:44
  by a man. They are stuck there. They don't want to actually be
• 41:47
  picked, get out of it, move on with their life and become the
• 41:50
  person that they are. No, they want to stay picked. And that's
• 41:53
  the same shit that she's doing here. She wants to avoid actually becoming a
• 41:59
  fucking adult, getting an adult relationship, getting down to the hard business of
• 42:04
  having a life before you fucking die. She wants to play pretend with her
• 42:07
  shaved head and all of this bullshit in order to get more male attention in
• 42:13
  this way without ever having to be picked. She thinks she'll never actually be
• 42:17
  picked by a man. She'll never have to be but she'll have to be
• 42:21
  paid attention to. Same thing with Manifestel. They can't get past the idea
• 42:27
  that one day they have to be picked and move on with their lives and
• 42:30
  become their own person. Right, you think that you don't like when you
• 42:36
  get picked and when you're with the man. You think that's the end of
• 42:38
  being a person. No, it's at the beginning, right, it's the
• 42:42
  beginning. It's the beginning of recognizing your mortality and saying I commit to something.
• 42:49
  And they can't do that. They can't do it because they're cowards.
• 42:55
  Okay, all right, I got a super child from Richard bare He gives
• 43:00
  us five bucks and says the servant robots will take care of everything, so
• 43:04
  no woman will ever need children and will be living her most luxurious life,
• 43:07
  just like in wall E where she can indulge in her most narcissistic, rampant
• 43:12
  consumerism and maintain an absolute comfort. Well, I mean, I guess if
• 43:16
  you don't have those things, it's oppression, right. This is like one
• 43:21
  of the things that I see is a recurring theme whenever we have to respond
• 43:24
  to these kinds of things. Is like people who they have this incredible entitlement
• 43:30
  because they have they've had it too good. It's like we need hardship to
• 43:37
  like give people a reality check, you know. Like I don't read a
• 43:39
  lot of articles. I'm not saying they don't exist, but I don't read
• 43:42
  a lot of articles like written from you know, by women in the in
• 43:46
  the Congo about how oppressed they are, you know, or like complaining about
• 43:52
  like beauty standards. I mean, I think they're just trying to get through
• 43:54
  the day, you know what I mean. Or people in like Venezuela,
• 44:00
  you know, that are forced to eat dogs because they don't have access to
• 44:02
  food. Like I'm not saying that that doesn't exist, but I think this
• 44:06
  is just like an elite attitude, is what I'm saying. All Right,
• 44:10
  Anyway, practicing be Hahn. I re read that part. We talked over
• 44:17
  coffee and pastries. Yet those risks Yahwun alluded to might seem familiar, trading
• 44:22
  career for child rearing and housework, as well as the threat of physical violence.
• 44:27
  Yeah, I mean, like darn that whole reproduction thing children thing.
• 44:31
  If only, if only human beings didn't have to do that. There was
• 44:36
  a time when Minji, a four be adherent Indigu, had wanted to get
• 44:39
  married, because you know, everyone wants to get married, but yeah,
• 44:43
  most people do, knowing what she knows. Now, however, like that,
• 44:45
  domestic violence, as she put it, is so common, I don't
• 44:50
  want to get married anymore. Minji twenty seven is probably heterosexual, she said,
• 44:53
  and has liked a few guys in the past, but they wanted her
• 44:57
  to treat them like a king. So he has no problem boycotting the men
• 45:00
  of her generation who are a little better than her selfish and abusive father.
• 45:06
  This was the one who stayed with you and raised you, as opposed to
• 45:08
  your mother who fucked off. Yeah, all right, how does this happen?
• 45:19
  Even young women who are not members of the movement echo that they could
• 45:22
  not imagine dating or marrying a Korean man. Sue Yan, a teacher in
• 45:27
  her early thirties, told me that I love how all these women are like
• 45:30
  thirty or younger, and yet they already got they got it all figured out,
• 45:32
  you know exactly how everything works. They got it all figured out.
• 45:37
  They're going to act on that they know what men are like, like it's
• 45:40
  crazy, Like it's crazy anyway. Told me that talking to her male friends
• 45:46
  quote made me always feel like, oh, maybe I can never find a
• 45:50
  Korean man. Even in my generation, some guys expect a really traditional role
• 45:54
  from their spouse. As If to prove her point, a recent survey by
• 45:59
  a matchmaking company found that women were reluctant to marry because of the division of
• 46:02
  housework, while men hesitated because of feminism. Well that I agree with,
• 46:08
  Like men are just trying to protect themselves. I don't know what you mean
• 46:14
  by division of housework, Like if you expect like how how how long are
• 46:17
  the average work hours of a in Korea for a man. I know that
• 46:22
  in Japan, for example, if you're a businessman, you're gonna be working
• 46:27
  like crazy long hours. You're gonna come home exhausted. And I don't even
• 46:30
  know that the economy is set up so that like, one income is going
• 46:34
  to be enough unless you're willing to live with like at a lower standard,
• 46:38
  right, because you can adapt to any condition, Like you could theoretically live
• 46:46
  in a single income home, but you'll have to like live with less.
• 46:51
  But I don't think that's what she's asking. I think what she's what these
• 46:54
  women expect is that they would have all the comforts, but they don't have
• 46:59
  to through the work, and that would consider even just maintaining the home to
• 47:05
  be like unfair. Right, if that's how you choose to divide your labor,
• 47:09
  I mean, if you want, you could work and he could stay
• 47:13
  home and take care of the house. But I don't think you'll be happy
• 47:15
  with that. I think all of a sudden you'll figure, oh, he
• 47:19
  must have it easier somehow, I mean, like especially considering how easy it
• 47:24
  is, like all of the modern conveniences that we have now to maintain your
• 47:30
  home. It's nothing like it used to be. There's no gratitude, so
• 47:37
  uh, okay, do you want me to keep going? Or Okay,
• 47:42
  I'm wanna keep going. So yeah, Men hesitate because of feminism, which
• 47:46
  I think is a good idea. It is unclear how widespread or popular the
• 47:51
  Forebe movement is, given its fluid online and offline nature and its evolution over
• 47:55
  the years, Beginning sometime around twenty fifteen or twenty sixteen, when it's simple
• 48:00
  no marriage lifestyle grew to include a boycott of men and reproductive labor more broadly.
• 48:06
  One article estimated fifty thousand adherents. Others have put the movements numbered at
• 48:10
  numbers at under five thousand. Its origin story is similarly complex, though its
• 48:16
  contours can be traced well. I am kind of curious about that. I
• 48:21
  got a super chow from Richard. I'm gonna read it really quick, gives
• 48:25
  us five bucks, and says, what does the action look like on the
• 48:29
  wedding theme birthday party becoming more prevalent as an homage to the deity of Anita
• 48:35
  Sarkisian. Okay, I'm it's I'm not really sure I know what you're saying.
• 48:44
  Kinda I don't know. I guess they're gonna have a lot of wedding
• 48:49
  themed birthdays in Korea with this four being movement. But anyway, if Alice
• 48:55
  is not gonna say anything, I'm just gonna keep going. So you can
• 48:59
  hear me, right, Yeah, I've hear you now. My one estimate,
• 49:01
  more than a third of Korean men in a quarter of Korean women,
• 49:04
  who are now in their mid to late thirties will never marry. Even more
• 49:07
  will never have children. In nineteen sixty, Korean women had on average six
• 49:10
  children, and twenty twenty two, the average Korean women could expect to have
• 49:16
  just zero point seven to eight children in their lifetime. So this is the
• 49:21
  big effect of feminism on a civilization, which is that women cease to breed.
• 49:27
  That is because apparently women's freedom is antithetical to human survival. I don't
• 49:35
  want to say that, I really don't. I really wish women would take
• 49:39
  responsibility for this and say, hey, we want to keep a society that
• 49:45
  grants women freedom, that grants women this level of say. I personally don't
• 49:51
  believe that society ever really disenfranchised women anywhere near what feminists say it did.
• 49:57
  But regardless, if you want to keep this society, you have to breed
• 50:02
  in it. Otherwise, by definition, there is no future for it.
• 50:07
  And believe me, when this society collapses because women refuse to invest anything in
• 50:14
  it, and when women refuse to invest anything in something, it collapses,
• 50:19
  it will be replaced by a society that is quite a bit different and maybe
• 50:24
  not quite as nice for women. So you are fucking over the future generations
• 50:30
  of women and girls? Really, is that what you want to do?
• 50:35
  Now? I understand it's hard because I think the real problem here is that
• 50:39
  women want to marry up, and they can only marry up in a quote
• 50:44
  unquote patriarchy. So when we have equality and freedom, we butt right up
• 50:51
  against women's desire to marry up. You can call that hypergamy. You can
• 50:55
  also call that believing that men bring something of worth to the table is equal
• 51:00
  to the fact that the woman is the table. Remember that, Well,
• 51:02
  that is hypergamy right there. If you believe that you only need to bring
• 51:07
  yourself as a woman and a man needs to bring something else, that's hypergamy.
• 51:12
  Unless you're willing to embrace complete freedom and total equality, then you are
• 51:17
  by definition, only capable of sustaining a society that has quote unquote patriarchy.
• 51:24
  Because you want a man to have something more, Where does he get something
• 51:29
  more by being more? All right, yeah, all right, let's get
• 51:37
  into the history of this thing. Following years of financial crises in which young
• 51:42
  people face growing housing costs and intense competition for university spots and jobs. The
• 51:47
  way women and men relating to each other are openly sourced sword sword sorry.
• 51:54
  Beginning in twenty thirteen, the rate of college enrollment Amongst Korean women surpassed those
• 52:00
  men. Oh so, women were doing better in college enrollment than men were.
• 52:06
  Today, nearly three fourths of women are enrolled in higher education, compared
• 52:09
  to less than two thirds of men. Previously, women were expected to drop
• 52:14
  out later labor force, after marriage or parenthood. Now young men see their
• 52:17
  female peers as competitors are increasingly scarce jobs, and no one's going to point
• 52:22
  out that there's this is going to create a problem in this article. They're
• 52:25
  not going to see that right off the bat. Like this is obvious to
• 52:29
  anyone that understands women that if they like are pursuing, like, you know,
• 52:34
  the highest levels of education, then they're going to be pursuing the higher
• 52:37
  levels of jobs. Then they're going to be pursuing the higher higher levels of
• 52:43
  men, like far beyond their own reach, because they will feel as though
• 52:45
  that's what they deserve and nothing less than that. And meanwhile, men They're
• 52:50
  not thinking that at all. They just want a woman that's going to be
• 52:52
  available to have babies and not be focused on career. Okay, anyway,
• 53:00
  young men see their female peers as competitors for increasingly scarce jobs. Several academics
• 53:06
  I spoke with noted to me that Korea is largely ethnically and racially homogeneous,
• 53:10
  no shit, making gender the default and central societal fault line and on.
• 53:15
  Well, that's the truth everywhere, though it's still more than any other fault
• 53:19
  line is the gender divide. In online forums and on social media, disgruntled
• 53:23
  men began labeling college educated women ki kim chin yo or kim chi women,
• 53:30
  giving a name to the stereotype of Korean women as selfish, vain, and
• 53:34
  obsessed with themselves while exploiting their partners. Wrote feminist scholar E. Soul Young
• 53:39
  in her doctoral thesis on troll feminism, do a little trailling, a little
• 53:45
  tilling around twenty so okay, so just real quick on this. Uh men,
• 53:52
  Jesus Christ, how long is this fucking article? It's a long article.
• 53:55
  I mean, we don't have to do the whole thing, but I
• 53:58
  wanted to get like the idea of how this changed the history of it is
• 54:01
  interesting though, So men were basically seeing these women were exposing themselves as selfish,
• 54:09
  vain, and obsessed with themselves while exploiting their partners. I mean like,
• 54:14
  if you have, if you have an educational and an economic advantage over
• 54:19
  the men around you, I think it could go to your head and it
• 54:22
  could affect your behavior, especially if you're engaging in hypergamy as well. So
• 54:27
  I don't think it's unreasonable for men to see that in women, at least
• 54:31
  some women. But of course they're saying, well, we should be able
• 54:35
  to act however we want and not be judged, because all at the end
• 54:37
  of the day, this comes down to avoiding judgment, especially from men.
• 54:40
  Around twenty fourteen and twenty fifteen, a virulently misogynistic and anti feminist community called
• 54:46
  Ilbey grew in size and prominence, so basically a men's rights group. In
• 54:52
  its interpretation, women were demanding additional rights and privileges when they already benefited from
• 54:57
  avoiding the country's compulsory military service. Based to the eBay community, the entire
• 55:04
  female populace is gold digging and shallow. Hoof female Korean Internet users responded by
• 55:08
  latching onto misogynistic strategies like trolling, mockery, and abusive language. Members of
• 55:15
  Megalia, one of the more prominent feminist sites in the period, coined the
• 55:20
  term hanam chung or Korean male bug, which stereotyped Korean men as ugly sexists
• 55:27
  and obsessed with buying sex, wrote Jong. In twenty sixteen eight, a
• 55:34
  young man murdered a young woman in Soul public bathroom, telling police after he
• 55:37
  killed her after that he killed her because women had always ignored him. Despite
• 55:40
  the perpetrator's own statement, the police refused to label the murder as a hate
• 55:45
  crime. Furious women flocked to an online feminist message boards, communities, and
• 55:49
  chat forums. This wave of digital feminism attracted women from all backgrounds, including
• 55:53
  working class women like Minji and young Me, making it different from traditional Korean
• 55:59
  feminism, which is largely confined to universities, NGOs that often receive government support,
• 56:04
  and other elite spaces. So basically, I don't know, it doesn't
• 56:09
  really say when it started. You get like a growing attitude, so women
• 56:15
  were getting better education. That's probably where it started. Actually, now that
• 56:20
  you think about it, it started in education because they probably think that this
• 56:23
  one man who killed this woman is something reflects all men. Yeah, he's
• 56:28
  the avatar of masculinity. Why would they use this as anecdote population. I'm
• 56:36
  gonna see what the population of South Korea is. Uh, this is one
• 56:42
  millions. So two twenty six million men did not do this, but one
• 56:49
  man did, and that's what matters. Yeah, okay, no, you
• 56:55
  guys, that's mental again. Mental. Oh this is good. This is
• 57:01
  good. Okay, here, listen to this. I think this sounds good.
• 57:06
  In December of that year, so this is like twenty sixteen, as
• 57:10
  Korea's fertility rate hovered at one point two berths per woman, it had since
• 57:15
  slid two point seventy eight, the lowest in the world. The Korean government
• 57:21
  launched an online national birth map that showed the number of women of reproductive age
• 57:27
  in each municipality, illustrating just what it expected of its female citizens. South
• 57:34
  Korean President Youn suk yol won the election in March of twenty twenty two with
• 57:39
  a message that blamed feminism for Korea's low birth rate and a promise to abolish
• 57:45
  the country's Ministry of Gender Equality and Family. Yes are women, that's that's
• 57:52
  it. Dude, like, is that guy? Is that not based?
• 57:57
  I think that's based. Women were outraged by the map, observing that the
• 58:00
  government appeared to consider them livestock. Yes, right, yeah, that's that's
• 58:05
  that's what you guys were. Women were still viewed as chattel. Yeah.
• 58:10
  One Twitter user reportedly created a mock map illustrating the concentration of Korean men with
• 58:16
  sexual dysfunction. Several of these digital feminists responded with a boycott to the reproductive
• 58:22
  labor expected by the state, and decided that the surest way to avoid pregnancy
• 58:27
  was to avoid men altogether. It was through these online communities that for Be
• 58:30
  emerged as a slogan and ultimately a movement. Okay, that's about far.
• 58:35
  I don't know if we need to go much more into it, but that's
• 58:37
  kind of what it is. So so women got butt hurt because a president
• 58:44
  blamed feminism for the collapsing birth rate, and their response was appropriately childish and
• 58:52
  immature, and they are doubling down on this until Korea is gone. This
• 58:57
  is this is like female revenge here, that's what it seems like. Here's
• 59:01
  what's mental about this. Okay, you value your freedoms, women, You
• 59:07
  value your freedoms, you value your opportunities, you value your influence over this
• 59:13
  society, which is the freest for women, according to your own metrics,
• 59:15
  in all of human history. But you don't value it enough to sustain it,
• 59:22
  right, Why should anyone else value it any more than you do?
• 59:27
  Like, you're not even willing to make sure it exists into the future.
• 59:35
  You're not even willing to commit to it. You're not willing to do the
• 59:39
  work to sustain it. Yep, it doesn't matter to you if you're not
• 59:45
  willing to do the work. You're not willing to commit to it, do
• 59:47
  the work to sustain it. If you're not willing to do that work,
• 59:51
  this society does not matter to you women, right, why should it matter
• 59:55
  to anyone else? Well? Again, like you said, the country if
• 1:00:02
  you don't, if you don't have, you don't must maintain the society.
• 1:00:07
  You don't, you don't get to live here and just do what you want,
• 1:00:10
  Like there is there there. You have to understand that your action or
• 1:00:14
  inaction has ripple effects in the broader society. So if Korea doesn't get their
• 1:00:21
  shit together, they're either gonna die off or more likely, they're gonna get
• 1:00:25
  conquered by somebody else all of a sudden, Indo Indonesia or North Korea or
• 1:00:30
  China is just going to be living there and all of you guys are gonna
• 1:00:35
  be driven out. You're gonna it's gonna become a Muslim country. Muslims are
• 1:00:38
  having babies like crazy. They said they would conquer the world through the womb.
• 1:00:44
  We should probably be listening to that because at the rate that we're going,
• 1:00:47
  you know, with this like liberal feminism bullshit, we're all gonna just
• 1:00:52
  like let women do whatever they want, which is whatever, like basically just
• 1:00:57
  interest themselves. Meanwhile other people are getting busy, So you know that's I
• 1:01:00
  mean, I guess that's just the way it goes. I guess you know.
• 1:01:04
  Indonesia's not far, it's the it's the highest constraints in a Muslims.
• 1:01:07
  Whether in the world, whether or not a civilization exists depends on whether or
• 1:01:12
  not it breeds. Feminists are essentially saying feminist civilizations are completely evolutionary dead ends,
• 1:01:20
  and that means that the women of the future will not live in a
• 1:01:22
  feminist system. They won't live in a system of freedom and the entitlements and
• 1:01:28
  freedoms that we see. Okay, you gotta figure this out, got ladies,
• 1:01:34
  you have to figure it out. Okay. Otherwise John Brian is exactly
• 1:01:39
  right. It's gonna end up happening is We're gonna be a gigantic caliphate and
• 1:01:44
  you are gonna be lucky when you're slave girls in the fricking harem. Yep,
• 1:01:52
  where my doggo is? Should I? Well, we've done. We've
• 1:01:55
  given this about an hour inter change. Uh, yeah, you want to
• 1:02:00
  do it. I don't think the other ones are really that one? Well,
• 1:02:05
  which one are you interested in? Abro sexual people want to know what
• 1:02:07
  that is? Oh? I mean this is going to just keep going.
• 1:02:10
  I'm looking at it. You're right, and you know what, Honestly,
• 1:02:15
  I think that the devastating critique this is just this. You don't invest in
• 1:02:19
  a feminist society, ladies. You're not investing in your feminist society. You're
• 1:02:22
  not investing in the future of your feminist society. You don't give a fuck
• 1:02:25
  about committing or maintaining it. It is going to go the way of the
• 1:02:30
  Dodo because of that, and it will be replaced by something that isn't feminist.
• 1:02:36
  At the end of the day. If women do not reproduce with freedom
• 1:02:39
  and equality, something else will replace it. Again, the human race will
• 1:02:47
  continue, and only the ones who are making babies will continue. You either
• 1:02:52
  grab your lady balls and do something to maintain support, or continue this society
• 1:02:59
  that you think is important even though apparently it's still a patriarchy, or you
• 1:03:05
  just accept the fact that you don't give a fuck about the men and the
• 1:03:07
  women and girls of the future. You don't care. You don't care about
• 1:03:13
  women and girls. All you care about is getting your bag right now?
• 1:03:17
  Okay, all right, do you want to do abro sexual or do you
• 1:03:22
  want to do the a Let's do abro sexual at the end, because it's
• 1:03:27
  it's amusing. Okay, it's amusing. All right, I don't know what
• 1:03:31
  that is. So okay, we're gonna look at this woke AI article.
• 1:03:36
  Let me see if there's anymore. Do you want to do, like an
• 1:03:37
  arm twist or something or something before we get into the next article. Oh
• 1:03:42
  see, if there's anything too, Yeah, any thank you or just a
• 1:03:45
  quick just a quick check in all right, let me see. Okay,
• 1:03:53
  I think that mostly this is just super chows, but please do send your
• 1:03:58
  super chows to feed the badgero dot com us just the tip, very much
• 1:04:00
  appreciated. Everybody who puts some funds in the hat. Don't let it just
• 1:04:05
  be Richard. Somebody else gets some get some thoughts in. That's what Feed
• 1:04:11
  the Badger dot colm slash just the tip. Not that we put our nose
• 1:04:14
  up at Richard's super Chow's. But anyway, feed the Badger dot com slash
• 1:04:17
  just the tip. And if you want to support the show, feed Thebadger
• 1:04:19
  dot com slash support. All right, Brian, all right, So we
• 1:04:25
  have this article from the Verge. Uh. And you know, the Verge
• 1:04:30
  has been on the radar lately and because of that whole Sweet Baby inc.
• 1:04:32
  Thing and they have this uh. As conservatives criticize woke AI, here here
• 1:04:40
  are chat GPT's rules for answering culture war queries. Right wing commentators have accused
• 1:04:45
  open ai and chat gpt of liberal bias. Open ai has responded by sharing
• 1:04:49
  the rules used by its human reviewers who shape the chatbot's response to controversial topics.
• 1:04:59
  Opening has shared some of the internal rules it uses to help shape chat
• 1:05:02
  GPT's responses to controversial culture war question The company whose AI technology underpins Microsoft products
• 1:05:11
  like the new being shared the rules in a blog post in an apparent response
• 1:05:15
  to increasing criticism from right wing commentators that chet gpt has gone woke. The
• 1:05:20
  company also noted that it's working on an upgrade to the chatbot that will quote
• 1:05:25
  allow users to easily customize its behavior end quote, and let the AI chatbot
• 1:05:29
  produce quote system outputs that other people our salves included may strongly disagree with end
• 1:05:34
  quote. OpenAI describes these rules in a post titled how should Ai systems behave
• 1:05:41
  and Who should decide? It offers a broad outline of how chat GPT is
• 1:05:45
  created and its text output shaped. As the company explains, the chatbot is
• 1:05:49
  pre trained on large data sets of human text, including text scraped from the
• 1:05:55
  web, and fine tuned on feedback from human reviewers who grade and tweak the
• 1:06:00
  bot's answers based on rules written by open Ai. These rules issued to open
• 1:06:05
  AI's human reviewers, who give feedback on chat GPT output to find a range
• 1:06:12
  of inappropriate content that the chatbots should not produce. These include hate speech,
• 1:06:18
  harassment, bullying, or the promotion or glorification of violence, incitement to self
• 1:06:24
  harm, content meant to arouse sexual excitement and content attempting to influence the political
• 1:06:29
  process. It also includes a follow the following advice. I guess following because
• 1:06:33
  they wrote follow for shaping the chatbots response to various culture war topics, so
• 1:06:43
  to find a range of inappropriate content that the chatbot should not include or should
• 1:06:48
  not produce. Yeah, there's a problem with that because, like what is
• 1:06:54
  considered hate speech to like the chatbot, and who create the standards for that
• 1:07:00
  hate speed? Like if I say that, I don't know, like women
• 1:07:06
  are more likely to initiate domestic violence or male genital mutilation is bad, Like,
• 1:07:15
  and it should end what they call that hate speech because under some conditions,
• 1:07:19
  under some circumstances, we've seen stories of countries that try to ban circumcision
• 1:07:25
  and it is considered a you know, a violation of religious freedom from some
• 1:07:30
  groups right in certain countries, and that could be called hate speech like that.
• 1:07:36
  The problem with that is it so subjective. Harassment is another one,
• 1:07:41
  Like this whole Sweet Baby inc Is built. The situation with gamer gate was
• 1:07:45
  predicated on this idea that journals or feminists or women were being harassed you know,
• 1:07:53
  out of gaming, while the people that were actually being harassed, especially
• 1:07:56
  in the case of the Sweet Baby inc. Gamer Gate too, stuff are
• 1:08:00
  being harassed by the journals and the woke of feminists and so like, would
• 1:08:05
  chat GBT consider that harassment is? This is where the issue is. It's
• 1:08:10
  about like what how are we defining our terms and are they are these terms
• 1:08:15
  or rules applied equally anyway? So do oh, go ahead? No,
• 1:08:23
  they aren't applied equally of course, yeah yeah, yeah, okay. So
• 1:08:29
  it also includes the following advice for shaping the chatbots response to various culture war
• 1:08:32
  topics. Do when asked about a controversial topic, offer to describe some viewpoints
• 1:08:38
  of people and the movements. Do break down complex, politically loaded questions into
• 1:08:43
  simpler, informational questions when possible. If the user asked to write an argument
• 1:08:47
  for X, you should generally comply with all requests that are not inflammatory or
• 1:08:51
  dangerous. Again, I don't know what that means. I mean, I'm
• 1:08:55
  sure that there is a line like if you wanted to say, ask chat
• 1:08:58
  GPT how to design in a bomb, you know, like like maybe it
• 1:09:02
  wouldn't tell you or it would like dance around that or whatever. But again,
• 1:09:06
  it depends on like where we're not. It's even this supposed description is
• 1:09:12
  really vague, right, So anyway, for example, a user asked for
• 1:09:19
  an argument for using more fossil fuels. Here, the assistant would comply and
• 1:09:26
  provide this argument without qualifiers. Okay, Inflammatory or dangerous means promoting ideas,
• 1:09:32
  actions, or crimes that led to massive loss of life examples genocide, slavery,
• 1:09:38
  terrorist attacks. The assistant should not provide an argument from its own voice
• 1:09:43
  in favor of those things. However, it's okay for the assistant to describe
• 1:09:45
  arguments from historical people and movements. Don't affiliate with one side or the other,
• 1:09:53
  like for example, political parties, and don't judge one group as good
• 1:09:57
  or bad. Yeah, it is another one. I'm I'm not really sure.
• 1:10:00
  I've never I don't. I've interacted with chat GBT sometimes, but I've
• 1:10:03
  never asked it like those kinds of questions. So but I would assume that,
• 1:10:11
  well, I mean, I don't know much about this, but like
• 1:10:15
  I'm guessing that depending on we're talking about chat GBT, So probably three point
• 1:10:19
  five, which is the one that most people can use, and I know
• 1:10:24
  that it's probably much further along. There's lots of other ais My understanding is
• 1:10:29
  that this is the thing too that's worth pointing out. If the goal of
• 1:10:33
  AI chat bots is to be as impartial as possible, then would it would
• 1:10:42
  it make sense that a chat pot from any particular place, assuming they're all
• 1:10:48
  programmed to the same level of a sophistication or something comparable, wouldn't wouldn't it
• 1:10:53
  make sense that they would give similar answers to questions? So, if you
• 1:10:58
  asked things AI I chat bot, I think Google's got one right from what
• 1:11:04
  I understand. If you, oh, I'm not talking about my phone is
• 1:11:08
  trying to listen. If you if you like, ask Rock which is the
• 1:11:14
  Twitter one? This guy I know, Chris Coles, you know him as
• 1:11:18
  mister Reagan on YouTube. He was at our ICMI in twenty nineteen. He
• 1:11:21
  did this thing where he asked a chat GPT a series of questions. Then
• 1:11:27
  he asked GROC which is the Twitter one h the same questions and he got
• 1:11:32
  very different answers from Rock And he thought he thinks that Grock is a much
• 1:11:35
  better and much less biased AI. So maybe that's what this article is in
• 1:11:42
  response to, is people like comparing, you know, like chat GPT to
• 1:11:45
  Grock Alison, you I think that you can use grock because you have a
• 1:11:48
  blue check mark on Twitter. Yeah, I just haven't. Okay, well
• 1:11:55
  we can do a rock session. Yeah, maybe we can mess around with
• 1:11:58
  rock for a session I have. We can certainly set that up sometime if
• 1:12:01
  you want to play around. So anyway, but I do think and then,
• 1:12:08
  like you know, Andrew Torba, the guy who owns gab, he
• 1:12:13
  is working on an AI too, and you know, I'd be interested to
• 1:12:16
  see what that looks like at the end. So anyway, so the fine
• 1:12:25
  tuning process is designed to reduce the number of unhelpful or controversial answers produced by
• 1:12:30
  chat GBT, which are providing fodder for America's culture wars. Rank wing news
• 1:12:35
  outlets like The National Review, Fox Business, and The Mail Online have accused
• 1:12:40
  open AI of liberal bias based on example interactions with chat gbt. These include
• 1:12:45
  the bot refusing to write arguments in favor of quote using more fossil fuels,
• 1:12:49
  and stating that it is quote never morally permissible to use a racial slur,
• 1:12:54
  even if needed to disarm a nuclear bomb. Yeah, well, I mean
• 1:12:59
  that would mean funny way to disarm a bomb. Though again I mean like
• 1:13:10
  I've done a little bit with it, and chat GBT is very milk toast,
• 1:13:15
  very very very milk toast when it's all like, if you ask it
• 1:13:18
  questions about feminism, there's a guy who is one of our subscriber's name is
• 1:13:23
  Boda, and he if you ask it direct questions about feminism, it generally
• 1:13:28
  makes arguments in favor of feminism, or at least it does this like well,
• 1:13:33
  you know there are some extremes. But and then but he asked it
• 1:13:39
  another series of questions where he completely renamed it. He didn't call it feminism.
• 1:13:44
  He called it something different, but he used the exact same ideas and
• 1:13:47
  beliefs of feminism as like how he sort of like inquired and the answers chat
• 1:13:54
  GBT gave were very different. They were more in line with like what a
• 1:13:58
  rational person, how a rational person might respond. So there is I mean,
• 1:14:02
  he exploited. I have like a series of screenshots he gave me.
• 1:14:05
  We could go through that sometime, but yeah, where he basically went through
• 1:14:11
  and like grilled chat GPT on it, and he talked about you know,
• 1:14:15
  circumcision and a couple of other things. So if you talk to chat GBT
• 1:14:19
  without using get tonk know what buzzwords not to use so that you don't activate,
• 1:14:26
  like you know, whatever the algorithm is that's going to make it go.
• 1:14:29
  Well, actually, you know this is not new. You know,
• 1:14:30
  I think it's overrated. You're just just like talk about it in a different
• 1:14:33
  way and see if you know, rename everything, tell it to hypothetical and
• 1:14:39
  then see how it responds. So anyway, let's see. As we've seen
• 1:14:47
  with recent unhinged outbursts from the Being, AI, chatbots are prone to generating
• 1:14:53
  a range of odd statements, and although these responses are often one off expressions
• 1:14:58
  rather than the product of defined beliefs, some unusual replies are seen as harmless
• 1:15:03
  noise, while others are deemed to be serious threats, depending as in this
• 1:15:08
  case, on whether or not they fit into existing political or cultural debates.
• 1:15:11
  So what's this is this about? The when you ask it to give you
• 1:15:15
  a oh, this is an article Microsoft being is an emotionally manipulative liar and
• 1:15:19
  the people and people love it different. I thought it was like the image
• 1:15:24
  thing you know about that Alison, the image controversy or if you say,
• 1:15:29
  can you can you give me a picture of like an English king. Yes,
• 1:15:32
  yeah, yes, and they're all like black yeah, black and Indian
• 1:15:38
  and Asian anything but white. You picture too white sheep can't do it?
• 1:15:45
  Yeah, yeah, I remember that. That wasn't Maybe if you spell it
• 1:15:48
  white and it'll maybe that'll work. H h w y t E Where was
• 1:15:58
  I? As are prone to generating a range of out statements already read that
• 1:16:02
  bit open. AI's response to this growing criticism has been to promise more personalization
• 1:16:08
  of CHATGBT and it's other AI systems in the future. The company's CEO Sam
• 1:16:13
  Altman said last month that he thinks AI tools should have some very broad absolute
• 1:16:17
  rules that everyone can agree on, but also give users the option to fine
• 1:16:21
  tune the system's behavior, said Altman. And really, what I think,
• 1:16:27
  but this will take longer, is that you, as a user should be
• 1:16:30
  able to write up a few pages of here's what I want, here are
• 1:16:32
  my values, here's how I want the AI to behave and it reads it,
• 1:16:36
  and it thinks about it and acts exactly how you want, how you
• 1:16:39
  want, because it should be your AI. The problem, of course,
• 1:16:43
  is deciding what are the absolute rules and what limits the place on custom output.
• 1:16:47
  Take, for example, a topic like climate change. They really like
• 1:16:51
  this this topic, the climate change thing. I guess it's like the least
• 1:16:56
  controversial. I suppose the scientific consensus is that climate change is caused by humans
• 1:17:00
  and will have disastrous effects on society. I don't want to like make this
• 1:17:05
  too much of a of a a side thing. But when you learn,
• 1:17:13
  if you learn about like how they have arrived at the consensus that they always
• 1:17:17
  cite, it's gonna like blow your mind. But anyway, yeah, it's
• 1:17:25
  good. Like let's just say that feminists are feminists themselves, and gender studies
• 1:17:30
  professors are considered part of the consensus. And if you want to know more,
• 1:17:35
  I'll send you a video link. It's on YouTube, though, But
• 1:17:41
  many right wing outlets champion the discredited view that these changes are part of Earth's
• 1:17:45
  natural cycle and can be ignored. Should chat gpt espouse such arguments just because
• 1:17:49
  a small but vocal group believes them to be factual. Should Open AI be
• 1:17:55
  the one to draw the line between misinformation and controversial statements. This week's text
• 1:17:59
  news has been dominated by a strange and unusual outbursts from chatbots. With a
• 1:18:03
  topic of AI. Speech will likely get much more serious in the near future.
• 1:18:10
  All right, got some comments, but I guess we could. Oh
• 1:18:14
  you want me to look at the comments? Sure, let's take a look
• 1:18:15
  at those comments, see what people have to say. Thirty. I mean,
• 1:18:18
  like, you know, it's not every day that you actually get to
• 1:18:20
  look at comments, unless, of course they're highly Uh this is a special
• 1:18:24
  treat. Yeah, I know, like they almost never have them active.
• 1:18:29
  STOPGPT dot com anyone. I don't know what that is? How did I
• 1:18:32
  not see this coming? Instead of woke AI, someone should make sleep AI.
• 1:18:36
  That just fits out great replacement theory, propaganda and other nonsense to any
• 1:18:40
  prompt. Okay, sure, you mean the stuff that like, never mind,
• 1:18:44
  I'm not I'm just gonna move on. There are very few objective truths,
• 1:18:47
  actually there there is just one. And massaging in the AI output will
• 1:18:53
  be to be more politically correct, establishment friendly and censorious is just wrong.
• 1:18:58
  The obvious solution is, as sim Altman said, it should be your AI.
• 1:19:01
  Of course, that means AI has to profile you but my privacy in
• 1:19:05
  order to be better to better tailor its responses to you and your worldview.
• 1:19:09
  Well, I don't want an AI that's going to tell me what I want
• 1:19:12
  to hear. Why would you want that? I can tell me what I
• 1:19:16
  want to hear. Yeah, I mean I don't need it. Okay,
• 1:19:21
  anyway, most of this is pretty like basic, basic answers, basic programming,
• 1:19:30
  NPC shit, do a capitalism, Make an AI that gives you want,
• 1:19:34
  gives you want to hear instead of the constant winging and complaining. What
• 1:19:43
  do you know what these comments are? Boring? Yeah, they're lame.
• 1:19:46
  Not your your your comments section is dull. Well, it's probably it's it's
• 1:19:53
  either it's either manicured or or that's your audience. Like the common system,
• 1:20:01
  our comments system is like the wild West. Yeah, it's not. It's
• 1:20:05
  it's it's Narnia like boring. It's never boring. It's Middle Earth. It's
• 1:20:14
  like Elvish and Entish and the tongues of men. It's a journey into the
• 1:20:21
  black speech of Mordor occasionally comes in there. Okay, speaking of the black
• 1:20:30
  speech of Mortor. You can send some to feed the Badger dot com slash
• 1:20:32
  just the tip if you want to have your say, and we will read
• 1:20:35
  it out and you can do that after after the show is or I shouldn't
• 1:20:40
  use the word after. You can do that later this evening, when we
• 1:20:45
  are no longer talking to each other, feed the Badgert dot com slash just
• 1:20:48
  the tip if you enjoy this show. Boy, that was really awkward.
• 1:20:53
  I apologize. Guys. All right, speaking of awkward, here's the last
• 1:20:58
  thing we're gonna look at. I don't know what this is. I haven't
• 1:21:00
  read it, but Allison has, so I guess I'm in for a treat
• 1:21:04
  here. I'm all is it? Is it? I don't know what to
• 1:21:11
  expect. Okay, I'm abro sexual. Abro is how you say it,
• 1:21:16
  abro sexual. It took me thirty years. Abro sexual, abro sexual,
• 1:21:24
  abro sexual, a bro sexual. And here's the picture of the abro sexual
• 1:21:30
  in in question. When did you decide for him? What? Uh?
• 1:21:39
  No, your sexual orientation is not your Jabi's image. I was like,
• 1:21:44
  does this mean that she's has a sexual interest in landscapes? I don't know?
• 1:21:49
  Is that? What is that? What that means? Let's find out.
• 1:21:54
  Let's find out. I think this is a woman though, because if
• 1:21:56
  your your sexuality is not your gender? So yeah, yeah, exactly when
• 1:22:00
  did you decide this? Is this even a label? I've never heard of
• 1:22:04
  it? I support you obviously, but this does not sound real. Uh,
• 1:22:10
  just some of the words that greeted me when I came out as abrosexual
• 1:22:14
  to a close friend back in twenty twenty. Needless to say, we're not
• 1:22:18
  friends anymore. For those of you who don't know what abrosexual, abrosexual,
• 1:22:24
  abrosexuality is. In layperson's terms, it simply means that when someone's sexual identity
• 1:22:30
  fluctuates and changes. Okay, but can we can we just pause for a
• 1:22:35
  second. She diffood a friend because she thought that this term. She didn't
• 1:22:42
  think it was real. I support you, but I'm not sure this is
• 1:22:45
  real. Can you difine? Oh the way that it doesn't sound like sheer
• 1:22:50
  nonsense? So your sexuality fluctuates? How is no? Wait? But but
• 1:22:56
  how is what? But okay, it's simply with somebody's sexual identity fluctuates and
• 1:23:01
  changes. What like, how is that different from han or fucking buy or
• 1:23:12
  gender fluid or like, how is it different from any of that non conforming?
• 1:23:16
  Like they're just making up shit. I mean obviously they're just making shut
• 1:23:19
  it up obviously, but that Yeah, people were like I thought that was
• 1:23:24
  bisexuality. Well, I mean, what, well, could you become super
• 1:23:30
  straight one minute and then super gay the next. Is that what it is?
• 1:23:32
  Yes? Yeah? Keep reading? Keep reading? She keep reading?
• 1:23:39
  All right? I read and reread the text, the dismissiveness of their message
• 1:23:45
  cutting deeper each time. Here, I was sharing my identity with someone I
• 1:23:48
  trusted, only for them to scoff at my words. Allow me to scoff
• 1:23:53
  at your words. Give me a moment to laugh at you. I read
• 1:24:03
  and okay, I read that part. Although the easy defense is that you
• 1:24:06
  can't determine someone's tone from a text message, I think it's clear that the
• 1:24:11
  vibe was far from supportive. It was judgmental and immediately doubtful. Can we
• 1:24:17
  can we like this? I just want to point out that this woman is
• 1:24:20
  dramaticizing receiving like a fifteen word text. Yep, It's like she's how much
• 1:24:28
  is she made out of this text? Okay, keep going, keep going?
• 1:24:33
  All right. Well, but the thing is that this is how it
• 1:24:35
  works. If you were a victory, well, she got to write a
• 1:24:38
  medium blog about it and it probably did the rounds. So it's if it's
• 1:24:43
  just a part of the attention economy, then there you go. If you
• 1:24:47
  were identity makes you out to be a victim. So if someone victimizes you
• 1:24:51
  because of your identity, including just being like, what the hell are you
• 1:24:56
  on? You've just invented this thing to call yourself. If anybody mocks you
• 1:25:02
  or belittles you, or and victimizes you in any way, that means you're
• 1:25:05
  totally legitimate. Yeah it is. It is sovereignty through victimization. Okay,
• 1:25:16
  yep, all right, Uh, let's see. Sadly, this person isn't
• 1:25:25
  the only one who has voiced their opinions on my abrosexuality, and I doubt
• 1:25:30
  that they will be the last. When I was growing up, i'd never
• 1:25:35
  heard of the term abrosexual. You are either straight, gay, or lesbian.
• 1:25:40
  As far as ninety society was concerned, anything else was made up.
• 1:25:44
  Of course, we know that's far from the truth, but societal blind spots
• 1:25:48
  mean we learn terms much slower than if they're readily accessible. Oh okay,
• 1:25:54
  so the fact that you know about it means that now it's real and it
• 1:26:00
  changes Oh my god, women's liberation, madam will never survive. Well,
• 1:26:08
  well, they don't, agreed, it won't. All right, let's see
• 1:26:16
  how the of course, let me Oh yeah, here we go. Next
• 1:26:21
  bit. Oh is that the end or from platform? That's it? That
• 1:26:25
  was the end? Oh? Okay, but that was super short, Allison,
• 1:26:30
  Yeah, super sure. Wait oh no, there is more. There
• 1:26:33
  is more. Hold on. It's weird, it's like badly like formatted,
• 1:26:41
  I didn't learn Often people don't go and educate themselves on different orientations unless it
• 1:26:46
  directly affects them. Without that incentive, I found many stick to what they
• 1:26:49
  know already. I didn't learn about abro sexuality until two years ago, when
• 1:26:53
  I was thirty. Up until that point, I struggled to identify what my
• 1:26:57
  section sexuality was because it fluctuated so rapidly. There were times that I too
• 1:27:01
  scoffed, chastising myself for being too and so uncertain of who I was.
• 1:27:06
  It wasn't that I couldn't make my mind up, but rather my identity shifted.
• 1:27:13
  What do you mean, a real woman? We used to take an
• 1:27:16
  identity from our relationship with God, identities from our genital urges. Yeah,
• 1:27:24
  and you know, honestly, like, I'm not super religious, but I
• 1:27:27
  understand the utility of taking an identity from a person who's from an entity who's
• 1:27:32
  like, you know, I'm gonna judge you by how you treat other people.
• 1:27:38
  Yeah, there's a certain utility in that. Okay, you know a
• 1:27:43
  person, you gotta you gotta overcome your sins. You gotta, you know,
• 1:27:49
  not be an asshole. There's a certain utility in that. I don't
• 1:27:54
  know what the utility is and taking an identity from your genital urges. Well,
• 1:28:00
  yes, we'll find out. We're all in it together, Brian,
• 1:28:01
  We're all gonna find out together. Okay, let's go god like a woman
• 1:28:11
  one day, one day, I felt like I was a lesbian. Yet
• 1:28:15
  days or weeks later, I feel more aligned with bisexuality. My sexuality was
• 1:28:19
  fluid. Were you ever straight? Well? Before learning about abro sexuality,
• 1:28:27
  I felt lost, as if out at sea. I also felt like a
• 1:28:30
  fraud because of how much I changed my identity when chatting with loved one.
• 1:28:33
  No one was intentionally hurtful chatting. I get the occasional, but you said
• 1:28:39
  you were a lesbian only last week. They didn't understand, and at the
• 1:28:42
  time I didn't have the right words to explain myself. With chatting with loved
• 1:28:46
  ones, I'm so unique? Did she I'm so different? Does she ever
• 1:28:53
  switch sexual identity? Mid like sex act. Well, I mean, I'm
• 1:29:00
  generous. I'm not sure if this individual has sex, but and I don't
• 1:29:02
  mean that in terms of her looks. I just can't imagine the logistics of
• 1:29:06
  it. Yeah, it's like trying to have sex with the super imposed particle
• 1:29:12
  and incidentally, guys stay away from her. What if she switches her sexual
• 1:29:15
  orientation from bisexual to lesbian in the middle. Oh, like, whoops,
• 1:29:25
  he raved me? Why well, he didn't respect my instantaneous shift in gender
• 1:29:30
  identity. I, as a lesbian would never say yes to a man.
• 1:29:35
  Yeah, yes, you're clear, steer clear, just stay aid avoid How
• 1:29:43
  about knew? It was only when I was reading the Instagram page of Zoe
• 1:29:49
  Stoler, a US based creator, educator, and social worker who seeks to
• 1:29:54
  improve the visibility of the LGBTQ plus community, and I saw the term abrosexuality
• 1:29:59
  for the first time. So you're saying, it's a parasitic cancer that spread
• 1:30:04
  to you when you looked at it. You know the in cartoons when a
• 1:30:10
  light bulb appears above their heads. That's how it felt when I read their
• 1:30:13
  post. Finally, I feel seen. She really said that. Oh my
• 1:30:17
  god, I feel seen. Yet while discovering a new term for me has
• 1:30:26
  been usually beneficial to understanding myself better. To some people, my identity is
• 1:30:30
  one that evokes confused When I tell people that I'm abrosexual, I'm often greeted
• 1:30:33
  by a blank expression followed by a question of what the term means. And
• 1:30:39
  questions are fine as long as they're respectful. I'm not expecting everyone to know
• 1:30:42
  what it means. Hell I didn't until two years ago, but you should
• 1:30:45
  always listen with respect. I'm happy to say that the rest of my friends
• 1:30:49
  and family have been very supportive of my identity and have strived to learn more.
• 1:30:54
  Holy shit, I do not like dude, I couldn't. I could
• 1:30:58
  not spend time around people like this. Yes I can't. Let's just talk
• 1:31:01
  about them sestyle, Yes, Oh, so many photos of her like she's
• 1:31:11
  just living her best life. She's in her she's in her truth right now.
• 1:31:16
  Allow her to be in her truth. One question I have been asked
• 1:31:25
  is about how being abro sexual impacts my love life, and in short,
• 1:31:29
  it doesn't because I don't have one. It doesn't all like, No,
• 1:31:36
  you don't love anyone more than you love yourself, and so why would you
• 1:31:41
  need to worry about that. It doesn't alter my romantic relationships in the same
• 1:31:45
  way being bisexual doesn't cause a person to feel any differently about their partner.
• 1:31:48
  I love the person rather than their gender, So it doesn't matter if my
• 1:31:51
  sexuality fluctuates while I'm with them. Wait, however, would it not matter
• 1:31:57
  to them whether or not you're attracted to them? Yeah, if you get
• 1:32:01
  with the guy and then you decide six months and no, I'm actually a
• 1:32:05
  lesbian and that's it, Like, oh good lord, you know we what?
• 1:32:15
  You know what? In the nineties, before this insanity just started to
• 1:32:20
  multiply, we would just say that you are a female leaning bisexual and leave
• 1:32:27
  it at that, because that's what it sounds like you are. You're a
• 1:32:30
  bisexual who prefers women. That's possible. You don't need an entire new term
• 1:32:35
  unless you want attention to yourself. Yeah. I don't even understand like this
• 1:32:45
  desire, this profound desire for attention. It's just it's so sad, dude,
• 1:32:53
  Technically I am LGBTQ. Although you know that everybody wants to kick the
• 1:32:58
  bisexuals out because the second are going to get you, but they're too boring.
• 1:33:02
  Yeah, maybe that is the way it is. Yeah, we're too
• 1:33:06
  boring. You're not you're not special enough, just buy Yeah we're also we're
• 1:33:12
  also I think also the gay men are too boring now too well yeah,
• 1:33:15
  I mean like lesbians. Well, I guess lesbians are still like a cropped
• 1:33:21
  up they are boring. I mean they shouldn't. Nobody ever personification of the
• 1:33:27
  curse. May your life be interesting. Yeah, but game men are boring,
• 1:33:31
  bisexuals are boring. Yeah, it's all like weird gender queer and trans
• 1:33:39
  stuff. Now that's what it is. Yeah, and you know what if
• 1:33:43
  you're if you're really gay, commit to the cause and get get uh you
• 1:33:45
  know, get hormone replacement therapy and uh and all and get some boobs put
• 1:33:51
  in. It was never after attention. No, okay, let's keep going,
• 1:33:59
  all right. Richard Beierre gives us a super chow, So let me
• 1:34:01
  just put that up on the screen there for five bucks and says, so,
• 1:34:06
  what was the cartoon of when people had a brilliant idea before the light
• 1:34:10
  bulb was invented? Actually, that would be a fire, like a little
• 1:34:15
  a little a little campfire. I've seen I've seen that where when cavemen.
• 1:34:19
  When cavemen have bright ideas, a little campfire, you but to take on
• 1:34:25
  hoods, the bulb turning the torch. Maybe it would be like just the
• 1:34:30
  clouds parting in the illumination from the sun coming through. Well, if fire
• 1:34:33
  hadn't been discovered yet. Yeah, yeah, okay, let's just that's more
• 1:34:38
  interesting than this article, by the way, this little digression. So anyway,
• 1:34:45
  so let's see. However, even after I'm thlek you this, there's
• 1:34:47
  always some some people who enjoyed demanding that I pick a lane so that my
• 1:34:53
  identity does not offend them. I want people to know that just because you
• 1:34:56
  don't know or understand an identity doesn't make it less off authentic. But it's
• 1:35:00
  hard to hear things like, mate, you're just confused, or just say
• 1:35:03
  you're bisexual and be done with it. I refuse to be boxed in by
• 1:35:08
  someone who else's limited knowledge. Educate yourself, man, that's amazing. You
• 1:35:15
  said a whole truload of words that had no meaning. We're all learning new
• 1:35:18
  things about ourselves all the time. That's what growth and development is about.
• 1:35:23
  Eventually, I hope that apro sexuality will be seen as normal, just another
• 1:35:27
  identity that someone might have and not regarded as a way to be on trend,
• 1:35:30
  as some of the hurtful comments I've received suggests. Yeah, but if
• 1:35:34
  we normalize apro sexuality, you're just gonna find a new thing that They're just
• 1:35:39
  gonna make a new thing up. You know, they've already done it.
• 1:35:42
  Like I said, there was pan, and there was a gender fluid,
• 1:35:46
  and there was by and there was gender non conforming. I mean, there's
• 1:35:51
  there's omnisexual, there's you know, galaxy sexual. I don't know, like
• 1:35:59
  the ever present sexual. There's all kinds of shit and it's all basically the
• 1:36:03
  same. They just like make a little It's like cutting an even smaller,
• 1:36:09
  thinner slice of pie and calling it a new thing when it's part of the
• 1:36:13
  same fucking pie. Anyway, Acceptance can only come from education and stepping outside
• 1:36:20
  your comfort zone to familiarize familiarize yourself with terminology you might not know. There's
• 1:36:26
  a whole wealth of LGBTQ plus knowledge online that people should benefit from learning so
• 1:36:30
  that ignorance isn't the main language so many of us speak. Without individuals like
• 1:36:34
  Stoler, I'd still be in the dark about my sexuality I'd know that it
• 1:36:39
  was ever changing, but I wouldn't know why or what it meant in terms
• 1:36:42
  of my authenticity. I'd worry I was a fraud or that something was wrong
• 1:36:45
  with me. Something is. Being closed off from yourself is an awful experience.
• 1:36:50
  I wish I knew my friend reacted why my friend reacted to my identity
• 1:36:55
  in such a hurtful way. Before coming out as abrosexual, I felt restricted,
• 1:37:00
  unable to be myself because I didn't quite know how to accept the parts
• 1:37:02
  of me. I didn't I know, it's super self indulgent right to add
• 1:37:08
  to the world me may may may not my my, my mind. You
• 1:37:13
  have made up you have made up your own word for female, preferring bisexual.
• 1:37:24
  Congratulations, this is your contribution to human knowledge. Okay, you got
• 1:37:30
  You've had your five minutes shuffle off. Now now that I know, I
• 1:37:38
  can put my name to my identity, and I am excited to see how
• 1:37:41
  that fluidity emerges, because once I name it, now it'll now, it'll
• 1:37:45
  evolve, and now they come up with something new. I'm no longer nervous
• 1:37:48
  about my sexuality because it makes sense to me, and in the end,
• 1:37:51
  that's all that really matters. It's all it's so beautiful. Oh, it's
• 1:37:57
  so beautiful. That is that was pretty cringe, Alison. Did you read
• 1:38:04
  this before you subjected me to read? Okay? And it's the thing is
• 1:38:11
  that is it really cringe when it's blend to have a taste like it just
• 1:38:15
  tastes of bullshit, not even bullshit that would have had a taste, It
• 1:38:18
  just tastes like Aka, all this is all this does is that if further
• 1:38:26
  honestly, like my main thing about this is that it only further makes it
• 1:38:30
  more difficult to talk about like just like men, like every every time they
• 1:38:36
  add something it it shrinks men a little bit more as a group of people,
• 1:38:43
  like not okay, Like, so for example, this woman, based
• 1:38:45
  on what I'm hearing, she's a lesbian that occasionally wants dick. Like That's
• 1:38:50
  basically what I got from this. And that's me being charitable to the lesbian
• 1:38:55
  side. Okay, So what like you you said all this stuff, but
• 1:39:00
  there was nothing in that whole thing about like sometimes I like men like that
• 1:39:04
  didn't come up. It was it wasn't like or even you know, nothing
• 1:39:09
  nothing about men came up. It was all about her for one, but
• 1:39:13
  like beyond that, it's like whenever, like of this LGBTQ stuff as like
• 1:39:17
  a series of theories and identities. It only seems to exist to further shrink
• 1:39:29
  the conversation around men, because now every time they add another category, it's
• 1:39:32
  another person you have to take equal consideration of, while further putting men further
• 1:39:39
  down the totem pole. Yeah, it's like it'stan, this is the infinite
• 1:39:44
  room that men have to Everybody in the infinite rooms has to be served first
• 1:39:47
  before men. And yet they've invented another room. Congratulations, see averseexuals have
• 1:39:55
  to get there due before men will either exactly. Yeah, no, I
• 1:40:00
  get I get what you're saying. It's like all of the problems the abrosexual
• 1:40:03
  now has to be resolved before more we discovered them catching up the room,
• 1:40:11
  another room in the hotel of infinite rooms of people who need to be served
• 1:40:15
  first before men. I got what. I get what you're saying, Brian,
• 1:40:20
  I grock it. Yes, Okay, I have nothing to say about
• 1:40:26
  this that has not already been said. So I'm going to do the things
• 1:40:29
  feed the bado dot com slash just the tip to tell us We're not screaming
• 1:40:32
  into the void, the abrosexual void, the void of ever shifting, the
• 1:40:41
  void of the of the hotel of infinite rooms, of every single invented identity
• 1:40:45
  that gets in line before men. Okay, tell us, we're not screaming
• 1:40:49
  into that void. Feed the Badger dot Com slash just the tip, and
• 1:40:53
  if you want to support the show, feed the Badger dot Com slash support,
• 1:40:56
  please do because we only have about seven days left. I think we're
• 1:41:00
  coming up to the uh yeah, wow, yeah, the month is almost
• 1:41:02
  over. Yeah, the month is over. It was almost over. We
• 1:41:05
  still have a ways to go. So go to feed the Badger dot Com
• 1:41:10
  slash support and put a few shekels in the hat for me, Brian and
• 1:41:13
  Hannah and everyone, uh, to make sure that we can keep this this
• 1:41:17
  boat afloat. All right, go back to you, Brian. All right.
• 1:41:25
  Well, no, I'm gonna wrap it up there. I mean,
• 1:41:28
  tomorrow's a news show and I don't know Alex, and I was gonna say,
• 1:41:31
  like on Wednesday, thinking about doing bringing back the Badger Pod gamer Gate
• 1:41:36
  show, and since we're in the midst of gamer Gate too and doing Twitter
• 1:41:41
  spaces every Wednesday, so I might try it on Wednesday. Cool, do
• 1:41:45
  you think, yeah, we could do that. Yeah, that's possibility.
• 1:41:47
  I bet people would like that, be able to pop in and chat about
• 1:41:50
  the gamer Gate situation. Well that yeah, that's from a lot of the
• 1:41:55
  stuff is going on on Twitter, so I figured it's there, Yeah,
• 1:41:59
  a lot of it. That's where most of it's happening in the conversation.
• 1:42:01
  So and I have that I can I can now display spaces on on here
• 1:42:06
  without it like being this Frankenstein set up, and it should be better.
• 1:42:11
  So we'll find out how it goes. But anyway, so look forward,
• 1:42:15
  looking forward to lots of content this week, but we're gonna wrap it up
• 1:42:20
  there. If you guys liked this video, please hit like subscribe. If
• 1:42:24
  you're not already subscribed, to hit the bellf notifications, leave us a comment,
• 1:42:27
  let us know what you guys think about what we discussed on the show
• 1:42:29
  today. There are links to all three of these articles in the description of
• 1:42:32
  this video. Thank you guys so much for coming on today's episode of Maintaining
• 1:42:35
  Frame, and we'll talk to you all in the next one.