Latest / Inside The Criminal Mind / The Mind of a Nomadic Predator: Fantasy, Escalation, and the Urge to Kill
Transcript
- 0:00Speaker 1: Welcome back, everybody. Today, we're going to be looking at
- 0:05Speaker 1: predatory drift. How serial killers change hunting grounds and vanish
- 0:09Speaker 1: into cold cases. There's a moment in many cold case
- 0:12Speaker 1: investigations when detectives realize they may have been looking at
- 0:16Speaker 1: the wrong map, not the wrong suspect, not the wrong
- 0:20Speaker 1: victim profile, but the wrong geography. Because serial offenders do
- 0:26Speaker 1: not always stay where they started. Some drift, sometimes slowly,
- 0:31Speaker 1: sometimes abruptly, sometimes across state lines, and sometimes unfortunately across decades.
- 0:39Speaker 1: And when that happens, the murders stopped looking connected. This
- 0:43Speaker 1: is one of the challenges we saw before the nineteen
- 0:46Speaker 1: eighties and nineties, actually before two thousand and one with
- 0:49Speaker 1: the Twin Towers in nine to eleven, local law enforcement
- 0:54Speaker 1: and federal law enforcement really never communicated very much, and
- 0:57Speaker 1: local law enforcement didn't communicate with other long across.
- 1:00Speaker 2: The states or given within their own state.
- 1:03Speaker 1: And a lot of serial killers were able to exploit
- 1:06Speaker 1: this quite a bit, making it very difficult to capture
- 1:09Speaker 1: a serial killer. Things change as they started collaborating more
- 1:14Speaker 1: with each other. Codex came in where you had a
- 1:17Speaker 1: database of murders and you can see patterns that were
- 1:21Speaker 1: starting to pop up or methods or signatures, things of
- 1:25Speaker 1: that sort, because if not, the offender disappears into statistical noise.
- 1:31Speaker 1: Cases became fragmented between jurisdictions, viktomology changes slightly, methods evolve,
- 1:38Speaker 1: dump sites shift, cooling off periods lengthen, making it very
- 1:42Speaker 1: difficult for serial killer to try to track them down.
- 1:46Speaker 1: Investigators begin treating connected crimes as isolated events. Tonight, we're
- 1:52Speaker 1: talking about a concept known informally among behavioral analysts and
- 1:55Speaker 1: geographic profilers. That is what they call predatory drift of
- 2:00Speaker 1: a serial offender's hunting ground over time. This is not
- 2:03Speaker 1: simply about movement, it's about psychology because offenders rarely move randomly.
- 2:09Speaker 1: Their anchor points change for reasons. Employment changes, relationships collapse,
- 2:16Speaker 1: military service intervenes, parole restrictions can shift their mobility, Addictions
- 2:22Speaker 1: can escalate, and aging. They're not immune to that, and
- 2:27Speaker 1: they could alter their confidence and risk tolerance. And sometimes
- 2:32Speaker 1: the offender is psychologically fleeing parts of themselves.
- 2:37Speaker 2: So we'll examine a.
- 2:38Speaker 1: Lot of different areas today, why offenders relocate, how cold
- 2:42Speaker 1: case investigators reconstruct. This episode is designed from the perspective
- 2:47Speaker 1: and of understanding cold case investigations.
- 2:52Speaker 2: A lot of people that.
- 2:52Speaker 1: I've spoken with who have worked with old homicide files
- 2:56Speaker 1: long enough learn something.
- 2:58Speaker 2: They tell me. The killer never stopped, he just moved.
- 3:03Speaker 1: So let's look at the core of geographic profiling. To
- 3:06Speaker 1: understand predatory drift. We need to first understand geographic profiling itself.
- 3:11Speaker 1: It's a behavioral and investigative technique that analyzes the spatial
- 3:16Speaker 1: patterns of crimes. The central idea is simple. Offenders tend
- 3:20Speaker 1: to operate within psychologically meaningful geographic zones. The zones are
- 3:26Speaker 1: not random, they have a meaning. Most offenders have what
- 3:29Speaker 1: analysts call an anchor point, something that makes them feel safe.
- 3:33Speaker 1: It's a location psychologically central to the offender's daily life
- 3:37Speaker 1: and there's some sense of security there. Usually it could
- 3:40Speaker 1: be at home, work, a relative's residence, military housing, truck route,
- 3:46Speaker 1: parole zone, or just even a familiar neighborhood. The offenders'
- 3:51Speaker 1: crimes often radiate outward from this anchor point, but it's
- 3:54Speaker 1: not only a psychological thing.
- 3:56Speaker 2: Sometimes it's also strategic.
- 3:58Speaker 1: They're more familiar so they understand and how the neighborhood operates,
- 4:03Speaker 1: how law enforcement operates.
- 4:07Speaker 2: The offender's crime.
- 4:08Speaker 1: As I mentioned, radiates outward from the anchor point, but
- 4:10Speaker 1: not too close.
- 4:11Speaker 2: And this is really important to know because.
- 4:14Speaker 1: Most serial offenders avoid offending directly beside home because proximity
- 4:18Speaker 1: increases their detection risk. This creates what profilers will call
- 4:23Speaker 1: a buffer zone, psychologically safer distance between the offenders' personal
- 4:28Speaker 1: life and criminal activity.
- 4:31Speaker 2: This is where it gets interesting.
- 4:33Speaker 1: The offender's hunting behavior reflects both practical mobility and psychological comfort.
- 4:39Speaker 1: Offenders often hunt in places where they feel invisible, understand
- 4:44Speaker 1: escape routes, recognize traffic flow, no police presence patterns, and
- 4:51Speaker 1: or psychologically feel dominant. In addition, they know about collective efficacy,
- 4:56Speaker 1: how committed is the neighborhood of the community, and fighting crime,
- 5:02Speaker 1: seeing something and saying something. That's why environmental familiarity matters
- 5:08Speaker 1: enormously to these killers. The killer who spend years driving
- 5:11Speaker 1: delivery routes may know isolated roads intimately. A former military
- 5:17Speaker 1: member may understand transient motel corridors near highways. Truck driver
- 5:22Speaker 1: may psychologically map and higher interstate systems differently than ordinary civilians.
- 5:27Speaker 1: These people see things they're not everybody else sees. That
- 5:31Speaker 1: geography becomes part of the offenders cognitive map in their brain.
- 5:36Speaker 1: Their crimes begin reflecting this internal model, and when that map.
- 5:40Speaker 2: Changes, the murders changed too.
- 5:43Speaker 1: One of the greatest mistakes in historical investigations was assuming
- 5:46Speaker 1: serial offenders remain geographically stable forever. Many do not, especially
- 5:52Speaker 1: over long timelines. That's head over to predatory drift. What
- 5:59Speaker 1: is predatory It refers to the gradual or abrupt shift
- 6:03Speaker 1: in an offender's operational geography over time. Think of it
- 6:07Speaker 1: as a behavioral migration. The offender's hunting grounds, victim access points,
- 6:13Speaker 1: disposal areas, stocking zones, and comfort corridors begin moving. Sometimes
- 6:19Speaker 1: this occurs over months, sometimes over decades. Importantly, the offender's
- 6:24Speaker 1: psychology often shifts alongside the geography. The original hunting ground
- 6:30Speaker 1: may no longer satisfy psychological needs, or practical life changes
- 6:34Speaker 1: force adaptation. We mentioned some before, but others could be
- 6:38Speaker 1: serial offender divorces, losing housing, change of employment, health problems,
- 6:44Speaker 1: financial instability. Suddenly his environmental routine changes completely, and serial
- 6:51Speaker 1: offending is often deeply routine based.
- 6:53Speaker 2: The offender relies on.
- 6:55Speaker 1: Familiarity, predictability, opportunity, so when life structure changes, edditory behavior.
- 7:00Speaker 2: Often reorganizes itself.
- 7:03Speaker 1: This is why some offenders appear to stop killing. In reality,
- 7:08Speaker 1: the pattern became geographically fragmented. One jurisdiction sees three murders
- 7:13Speaker 1: in nineteen seventy eight, another sees two in nineteen eighty six,
- 7:16Speaker 1: and another one in nineteen ninety four, different states, different investigators,
- 7:22Speaker 1: and a slightly different mo No one connects them, but
- 7:27Speaker 1: behaviorally the offender may still follow the same psychological script,
- 7:32Speaker 1: just in a different area. Cold case investigators increasingly recognized
- 7:38Speaker 1: that some unsolved murders from different decades may represent the
- 7:42Speaker 1: same drifting offender, especially when victimology remains psychologically consistent or
- 7:50Speaker 1: the control methods continue to repeat. Postport and behavior overlaps,
- 7:55Speaker 1: staging patterns recur or transportation behavior matches because you know
- 8:01Speaker 1: why a serial killer evolves, but traces of the psychological
- 8:06Speaker 1: architecture the framework remain, and that framework is often more
- 8:10Speaker 1: stable than the method itself. Take a break for a second.
- 8:15Speaker 1: Make sure folks to subscribe and share this podcast if
- 8:17Speaker 1: you're enjoying it, and catch our other podcasts Forensic Psychology, Spycraft,
- 8:22Speaker 1: Stories of Special Forces Operators.
- 8:25Speaker 2: Let's go back to our story.
- 8:27Speaker 1: The psychology of the anchor point the most psychological, psychologically revealing.
- 8:32Speaker 1: Aspect of geographic profiling is the offender's anchor point.
- 8:37Speaker 2: We talked about this earlier. Anchor point, though is not
- 8:39Speaker 2: merely a home address.
- 8:43Speaker 1: It's the center of the offender's psychological routine.
- 8:46Speaker 2: Safety.
- 8:47Speaker 1: Rituals and routines provide human being safety, and humans are
- 8:51Speaker 1: creatures of habit. That habit is again providing safety certainty.
- 8:56Speaker 1: Humans don't like uncertainty, and especiallytor offenders. Serial offenders often
- 9:02Speaker 1: develop ritualized movement patterns same gas stations, bars, truck stops,
- 9:08Speaker 1: alley ways, freeway exits, industrial corridors, wooden access roads, red
- 9:14Speaker 1: light districts, transient motels. These become psychologically charged environments. Some
- 9:21Speaker 1: offenders repeatedly return to locations tied to fantasy reinforcement. Others
- 9:27Speaker 1: avoid locations associated with stress or prior to detection risk,
- 9:31Speaker 1: and over time these emotional associations shift. This is where
- 9:35Speaker 1: aging becomes important. A twenty five year old offender hunts
- 9:39Speaker 1: differently than a fifty five year old. Younger offenders often
- 9:43Speaker 1: demonstrate impulsivity, thrill seeking, mobility, and opportunistic violence. Older offenders
- 9:50Speaker 1: frequently become more methodical, more geographically conservative, more isolated, and
- 9:56Speaker 1: more focused on minimizing exposure, so the hunting ground contralt changes.
- 10:01Speaker 1: Some offenders stop nighttime abductions and move toward vulnerable adults,
- 10:06Speaker 1: sex workers, hitchhikers, transient populations, or victims less likely to
- 10:11Speaker 1: trigger rapid investigations. Others shift toward environments matching new lifestyles.
- 10:18Speaker 1: A divorced defender living alone near highways develops different routines,
- 10:22Speaker 1: and a married defender working locally behavior follows structure. That
- 10:27Speaker 1: principle matters enormously in cold cases because sometimes investigators focus
- 10:32Speaker 1: too heavily on their original offender profile while ignoring life
- 10:36Speaker 1: course evolution. Right when offenders age, so does other things.
- 10:43Speaker 1: Their fantasies age, their risks change, the way they move changes,
- 10:49Speaker 1: and sometimes their entire psychological center of gravity will change.
- 10:56Speaker 2: So let's look at why investigators miss the predatory.
- 11:01Speaker 1: Historically, one of the biggest barriers in cerial homicide investigations
- 11:04Speaker 1: has been jurisdictional fragmentation. So different counties, different states, different databases,
- 11:11Speaker 1: different detectives, right detectives, retire out, get moved, change quit,
- 11:17Speaker 1: and different forensic standards. A drifting offender exploits all of it,
- 11:22Speaker 1: especially before modern digital systems. Imagine a homicide detective in
- 11:26Speaker 1: nineteen eighty two investigating a strangulation murder near.
- 11:29Speaker 2: A highway corridor.
- 11:31Speaker 1: Now imagine another detective in another state investigating a similar
- 11:34Speaker 1: height as homicide nine years later in nineteen ninety one,
- 11:38Speaker 1: different victim, different county, different decade. The cases may never meet,
- 11:44Speaker 1: and defenders benefit from this invisibility, and they know it
- 11:48Speaker 1: and they hide in it, or.
- 11:49Speaker 2: At least they used to.
- 11:50Speaker 1: Predatory drift creates investigative camouflage, particularly when the offender intentionally evolves,
- 11:57Speaker 1: changes their weapons, changes their body, disposal sites, victims, age,
- 12:02Speaker 1: transportation methods. Some offenders actually learn, They study investigations, they
- 12:08Speaker 1: consume media to get more information, they monitor police errors,
- 12:12Speaker 1: and a lot of times they actually get involved in
- 12:14Speaker 1: the cases in some way. And many offenders often become
- 12:18Speaker 1: geographically smarter over time. And here's where cold case work
- 12:22Speaker 1: becomes psychologically interesting. Modern analysts frequently revisit old cases. As
- 12:28Speaker 1: we know from this podcast, geographic information systems they use.
- 12:32Speaker 1: They use travel corridor analysis, victim movement reconstruction, cellular mapping,
- 12:37Speaker 1: forensic genealogy, behavioral linkage analysis, and environmental criminology models. And
- 12:45Speaker 1: suddenly we have patterns that emerge. Now, I just rattled
- 12:52Speaker 1: off a bunch of stuff, So let's take a look
- 12:54Speaker 1: at each one of these briefly. So, Geographic Information Systems
- 12:58Speaker 1: GIS is essentially advanced its digital mapping combined with layered
- 13:02Speaker 1: criminal analysis. So investigators we use the software to map
- 13:06Speaker 1: crime scenes, disposal sites, abduction points, body recovery locations, offender residences,
- 13:13Speaker 1: travel routes, CCTV. The goal is to identify spatial patterns
- 13:18Speaker 1: offender comfort zones, anchor points, hunting territories. As we talked
- 13:23Speaker 1: about earlier, seiar, the fender may repeatedly operate in your
- 13:26Speaker 1: freeway exits or along trucking corridors, close to rivers, et cetera.
- 13:31Speaker 1: GIS allows investigators to overlay demographics, lighting, business hours, transportation systems, terrain,
- 13:38Speaker 1: and environmental criminology. This helps determine where a fenders feel safe,
- 13:42Speaker 1: where they encounter victims naturally, and how they move. The
- 13:46Speaker 1: other one we looked at is travel corridor analysis. This
- 13:49Speaker 1: examines how a fenders move through physical space, so the
- 13:52Speaker 1: investigators will study highways, rail lines, bus systems, truck routes,
- 13:56Speaker 1: pedestrian paths, commuter patterns.
- 13:59Speaker 2: Airport prucs. Offenders rarely move randomly.
- 14:04Speaker 1: Instead, they often offend the long familiar roots where commutes
- 14:07Speaker 1: delivery paths basically like a human being. Example patterns or
- 14:11Speaker 1: truck drivers targeting interstate corridors or offenders dumping bodies near
- 14:15Speaker 1: exit ramps.
- 14:17Speaker 2: Another one is victim movement reconstruction.
- 14:19Speaker 1: Investigators reconstruct phone activity, surveillance footage purchases, GPA stata, social
- 14:25Speaker 1: media activity, witness sightings, transportation records. The objective is to
- 14:30Speaker 1: understand where vulnerability increased, where a fender victim contact likely occurred,
- 14:35Speaker 1: and whether the victim was targeted, stocked, or opportunitisally selected.
- 14:40Speaker 1: Modern reconstruction can reveal routine patterns, deviations from routine emotional states,
- 14:47Speaker 1: and forensic psyche. Victimology is critical because offender choice is
- 14:50Speaker 1: rarely random. Psychologically, victim movement can reveal a fender planning
- 14:54Speaker 1: sophistication number four.
- 14:56Speaker 2: It's ollular mapping. This is where you still use.
- 15:00Speaker 1: Investigators will use cell phone tower pings, GPS records, Wi
- 15:03Speaker 1: Fi connections, app metadata, and Bluetooth interactions.
- 15:08Speaker 2: So the suspect don't know.
- 15:09Speaker 1: I think an estimat where of suspect traveled, where device
- 15:12Speaker 1: is overlapped, and whether the suspect and victim were near
- 15:14Speaker 1: each other. Sometimes older cases get reopen because now we
- 15:19Speaker 1: have archived telecom data that become searchable and improved algorithms,
- 15:23Speaker 1: refined tower triangulation. The other one that's forensic psychology, so
- 15:28Speaker 1: looking at DNA, public ancestry, family tree reconstruction. And lastly
- 15:34Speaker 1: is behavioral linkage analysis. This is where investigators analyze victim type,
- 15:38Speaker 1: method of approach, weapon use, staging, sexual behaviors, verbal statements,
- 15:44Speaker 1: restraint methods, body positioning, post mortem activity. The key distinction
- 15:51Speaker 1: no metos operendi a practical method used to commit to crime,
- 15:56Speaker 1: and then signature behavior psychologically meaningful behavior fulfilling emotional needs.
- 16:02Speaker 2: Then, lastly you actually forgot is.
- 16:04Speaker 1: Routine activity theory or environmental psychology studies how physical environments
- 16:08Speaker 1: shape criminal behavior. So opportunity structures, routine activities, target, accessibility,
- 16:14Speaker 1: absence of a guardian, environmental stressors. All right, So now
- 16:20Speaker 1: let's head back once we got that broken down. After
- 16:26Speaker 1: you see all this kind of information, patterns emerge not
- 16:29Speaker 1: because the offender stayed the same, but because certain psychological
- 16:33Speaker 1: behaviors remains stable underneath the changes. For example, domination, rituals,
- 16:39Speaker 1: binding preferences overkilled patterns, body positioning, trophy taking, sexual sadism,
- 16:45Speaker 1: or post mortem staging.
- 16:48Speaker 2: All this matters.
- 16:49Speaker 1: These are behavioral signatures that often persist longer than operational methods,
- 16:54Speaker 1: and that distinction is critical. You see, the modus operendi
- 16:58Speaker 1: evolves with the psychology underneath often doesn't. The signature doesn't
- 17:02Speaker 1: change much either. This is why some of the most
- 17:05Speaker 1: successful cold case breakthroughs occur when investigators stop asking who
- 17:10Speaker 1: committed the murder and instead ask themselves what kind of
- 17:14Speaker 1: life would produce this movement pattern? Over thirty years, that question,
- 17:21Speaker 1: believe it or not, changes everything. One of the most
- 17:26Speaker 1: important developments in modern profiling has been recognizing transportation corridors
- 17:31Speaker 1: as behavioral ecosystems. That's right, they look at these psychologically.
- 17:36Speaker 1: Highways are not just roads for some offenders. They become
- 17:40Speaker 1: hunting infrastructure.
- 17:42Speaker 2: Interstates provide what.
- 17:44Speaker 1: Anonymity, mobility, disposal, access, escape routes, transient victim pools, and
- 17:50Speaker 1: jurisdictional complexity. This became especially apparent in cases involving truck drivers,
- 17:56Speaker 1: traveling laborers, carnival workers, military personnel, rare walkers, and.
- 18:02Speaker 2: Long distance commuters.
- 18:05Speaker 1: Some offenders psychologically anchor not to one city, but to
- 18:08Speaker 1: movement itself. The road becomes a comfort zone. The mobility
- 18:13Speaker 1: becomes part of the fantasy system, and this creates extremely
- 18:18Speaker 1: difficult cold case patterns because the offender may never remain
- 18:21Speaker 1: long enough in one jurisdiction to trigger behavioral linkage awareness.
- 18:26Speaker 1: As we mentioned earlier, modern geographic profile increasingly examines fuel
- 18:31Speaker 1: stop patterns, hotel clusters, truck routes, interstate intersections, and missing
- 18:38Speaker 1: persons disappearances near transportation corridors. Offenders again often reveal themselves
- 18:44Speaker 1: through logistical.
- 18:47Speaker 2: Repetition.
- 18:48Speaker 1: Even drifting predators maintain habits. Humans always do we have patterns?
- 18:55Speaker 1: Look at your own life. What patterns do you have?
- 18:58Speaker 1: Do you go to the same place to take the
- 19:00Speaker 1: same routes? So where does this leave us in the
- 19:04Speaker 1: future of cold case analysis? What makes predatory drifts so
- 19:08Speaker 1: important today as several factors. One, technology is finally catching
- 19:14Speaker 1: up to behavioral complexity. We talked about some of the
- 19:17Speaker 1: tools the investigators use today.
- 19:19Speaker 2: I thought it's amazingly impressive.
- 19:22Speaker 1: For decades, drifting offenders survived because investigations remained geographically isolated.
- 19:28Speaker 1: The investigators' hands were tied up. They couldn't go anywhere
- 19:32Speaker 1: they could access this data, and many times the communications
- 19:35Speaker 1: was limited. But now we have forensic genealogy. Every week
- 19:42Speaker 1: we almost see a.
- 19:42Speaker 2: Cold case being solved because of it.
- 19:45Speaker 1: We have now AI assisted linkage analysis, and we'll do
- 19:48Speaker 1: a podcast on that in the future because that's becoming
- 19:52Speaker 1: quite powerful. National databases are helping quite a bit. Digitized
- 19:57Speaker 1: archives and geographic modeling are reopening patterns previously invisible.
- 20:03Speaker 2: We're seeing the whole thing recreate in front of our
- 20:07Speaker 2: own eyes.
- 20:08Speaker 1: Cold cases, once not unrelated, are beginning to converge. I
- 20:13Speaker 1: believe there was a serial killer the other day, that
- 20:16Speaker 1: they connected one crime to another. Investigators increasingly understand something.
- 20:22Speaker 1: Serial offenders are often less random than they appeared. We
- 20:26Speaker 1: didn't see enough before our eyes were limited, so it
- 20:29Speaker 1: made it seem like they were much more random, But
- 20:33Speaker 1: now we know they're not. Even their drift follow psychological gravity.
- 20:38Speaker 1: Their routines evolved predictably around employment relationships, addiction, fear aging, fantasy, escalation,
- 20:46Speaker 1: and environmental familiarity. And when analysts reconstruct those ships carefully,
- 20:51Speaker 1: entire decades of violence can suddenly become visible. One of
- 20:56Speaker 1: the haunting realities of cold case work is this, Sometimes
- 21:00Speaker 1: the offender was never exceptionally brilliant. Sometimes the system was
- 21:05Speaker 1: simply fragmented. The fragmented patterns leave traces, and experienced investigators
- 21:11Speaker 1: learned to follow a movement, not just crime scenes, because
- 21:16Speaker 1: the geography itself tells a story, story of comfort, fear, opportunity, fantasy, control,
- 21:24Speaker 1: and sometimes that story was what leads investigators back to
- 21:29Speaker 1: the offender. After decades of silence, technology has helped a
- 21:34Speaker 1: lot of families get closure nowadays.
- 21:39Speaker 2: I don't know how many.
- 21:40Speaker 1: Cold cases were solved, but I did end up looking
- 21:45Speaker 1: it up.
- 21:45Speaker 2: For you to give you more statistics about it.
- 21:49Speaker 1: They say, roughly, it's really difficult to get the statistics.
- 21:51Speaker 1: About five thousand and eight thousand homicide cold cases may
- 21:54Speaker 1: be cleared or solved annually, while approximately un fortunately six
- 22:01Speaker 1: thousand are more added that are unsolved homicides. Researchers estimate
- 22:06Speaker 1: there are now over two hundred to three hundred thousand
- 22:09Speaker 1: unresolved homicides accumulated in the US, depending on methodology and
- 22:13Speaker 1: time range used. One of the major complications is the
- 22:18Speaker 1: FBI tracks clearances and not specifically cold case solves. A
- 22:21Speaker 1: homicide can be cleared the same week or forty years later.
- 22:24Speaker 2: So if detectives solved a.
- 22:26Speaker 1: Nineteen eighty five murder in twenty twenty six, that still
- 22:28Speaker 1: clowns as a twenty twenty six clearance. Recent national homicide
- 22:34Speaker 1: clearance rates have hovered around fifty two to sixty percent,
- 22:37Speaker 1: depending on the year. The US solved over ninety percent
- 22:41Speaker 1: of the murders in the early nineteen sixties. The clearance
- 22:44Speaker 1: rates have declined dramatically. Currently, four out of every ten
- 22:49Speaker 1: murders remain unsolved nationally. Well, now that you got a
- 22:57Speaker 1: little bit more data, hopefully you've enjoyed this podcast, and
- 23:05Speaker 1: if you have, what I recommend is please share it
- 23:07Speaker 1: with others.
- 23:08Speaker 2: Hit the like button.
- 23:10Speaker 1: Thank you for joining me on this deep dive into yes,
- 23:13Speaker 1: a disturbing world. But if you found it a valuable again, subscribe,
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- 23:21Speaker 1: Stay safe out there.