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Inside The Data: Inside The Metrics For New Eagles DB Michael Carter II · Inside the Birds: A Philadelphia Eagles Podcast

• 0:09
  Speaker 1: Hello, Welcome back to another episode of Inside the Data.
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: On Inside the Birds, it's Jeff Mosher alongside our data
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: and analytics expert Sam Finkel and man, we had this
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: plan to do this nice you know, BI week summation
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: episode and really get through the Eagles through eight games
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: the numbers, but we're gonna save that because the Eagles
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: kept Sam and everybody else busy. This week. They make
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: a fairly I think, impactful trade as they acquire someone
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: who used to be one of the league's best nickel
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: backs and his name is Michael Carter, the second from
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: the Jets. Sam, and it's it's funny because they had
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: to trade John Well, they traded Johnny Mitchi to get him,
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: and it made me think of when they traded four
• 0:56
  Speaker 1: John Mitchi and the episode that we did breaking down
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: all data of John Mitchi all for I think he
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: wound up with four catches for something like I don't know,
• 1:06
  Speaker 1: it was eighteen yards. So a lot of hard work,
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: a lot of data, a lot of research by you
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: all for us to get four catches in eighteen yards
• 1:15
  Speaker 1: out of John Metchi. Right, So let's hope here as
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: you went back into the books and the archives and
• 1:21
  Speaker 1: the data crates to look at Michael Carter, that this
• 1:25
  Speaker 1: becomes a little bit more of a significant just for
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: the sake of journalism here, Sam right, that this becomes
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: a little bit more impactful when we look back on
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: this episode certainly. Yeah, what was your first reaction when
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: the Eagles traded for Johnny MITCHI I'm sorry, when the
• 1:43
  Speaker 1: Eagles traded Mechi to get Michael Carter.
• 1:46
  Speaker 2: The second I was like that that is one of
• 1:48
  Speaker 2: the most probably the shortest tenure of legal I could
• 1:52
  Speaker 2: think of. You know that there were a couple that
• 1:54
  Speaker 2: came to mind too, but I was just like, that's
• 1:56
  Speaker 2: that's a very short tenure.
• 1:58
  Speaker 1: That is imagine being traded like three to I don't
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: know one two times within a year, but but not
• 2:04
  Speaker 1: to like play Well, we'll see what Mechi does with
• 2:07
  Speaker 1: the Jets. But I mean, you know, you get traded
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: from two teams that you played very little role for.
• 2:11
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean it seems like, honestly, it was a
• 2:14
  Speaker 2: good trade on both ends because both players weren't necessarily
• 2:18
  Speaker 2: going to contribute too heavily on either team. But there's
• 2:21
  Speaker 2: possibility that they'll both contribute on these teams. So it
• 2:25
  Speaker 2: seemed like one of those kind of trades, like you know,
• 2:27
  Speaker 2: you're not gonna help me, but maybe you can help them. Right.
• 2:31
  Speaker 1: We'll get into Michael Carter and what you've dug up
• 2:33
  Speaker 1: from him as a Jets corner in a second. But
• 2:36
  Speaker 1: I know you're someone who pays a lot of attention
• 2:38
  Speaker 1: to the draft, and Michael Carter's only been in the league,
• 2:40
  Speaker 1: you know, the think fourth year. No, I'm sorry, this
• 2:43
  Speaker 1: is a sixth year in one draft? Right? Do you
• 2:46
  Speaker 1: remember much about him coming out of Duke or scouting
• 2:49
  Speaker 1: him or putting together anything analytically on him, or even
• 2:53
  Speaker 1: as someone who's come up with your own algorithm for
• 2:54
  Speaker 1: free agent contracts? What you know, he obviously signed a
• 2:58
  Speaker 1: pretty big contract just before last year. Did that with
• 3:01
  Speaker 1: you as well?
• 3:02
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean listen, he when he was coming out,
• 3:06
  Speaker 2: You know, I didn't have I wasn't as like into
• 3:10
  Speaker 2: the draft as I am now back then, I have
• 3:12
  Speaker 2: to admit, because at that point, yeah, it just wasn't like,
• 3:17
  Speaker 2: not as in depth. For sure. I do remember him
• 3:20
  Speaker 2: as a prospect for sure, and I do remember liking him. Obviously,
• 3:26
  Speaker 2: I don't know too much about I wonder if if
• 3:31
  Speaker 2: he has one of those scores. I'm trying to pull
• 3:34
  Speaker 2: that up as we speak, just because mm hmm, it
• 3:37
  Speaker 2: would be cool to see relative to what we pulled
• 3:39
  Speaker 2: up before. But it doesn't look like he has a page,
• 3:42
  Speaker 2: did he not?
• 3:43
  Speaker 1: Was he a combine guy? Usually if you don't go
• 3:45
  Speaker 1: to the combine, right, you know, true, they don't have
• 3:49
  Speaker 1: the information.
• 3:51
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean it's possible. It's also just not loading potentially,
• 3:56
  Speaker 2: so I don't know. But either way, you know, there's
• 3:59
  Speaker 2: a reason why he's one of the highest paid, you know,
• 4:02
  Speaker 2: slot corners in the league. Sure that doesn't just happen
• 4:06
  Speaker 2: because you like the guy. It happens because the play
• 4:08
  Speaker 2: on the field is pretty good. And you know, I'd
• 4:11
  Speaker 2: say that he had did have some fall off, and
• 4:15
  Speaker 2: I think some of that is due just to injury.
• 4:18
  Speaker 2: He really struggled, particularly last year with injuries. He was
• 4:22
  Speaker 2: a fifth round pick, and honestly, I know that consensus
• 4:27
  Speaker 2: was he was a steal in the fifth round back then.
• 4:30
  Speaker 2: His play honestly, definitely, you know, justified that kind of
• 4:35
  Speaker 2: that take. However, again, struggled to stay healthy, particularly last year. Yeah,
• 4:43
  Speaker 2: and I just don't think this trade is made without
• 4:46
  Speaker 2: the intention to play him in some capacity correct what
• 4:52
  Speaker 2: that looks like, who knows, But you don't make this
• 4:55
  Speaker 2: trade with with this, especially with how much he's being
• 4:59
  Speaker 2: paid in order to just have him ride the bench.
• 5:03
  Speaker 2: I mean, there is merit in having him his depth,
• 5:07
  Speaker 2: but I still think he sees the field in some packages,
• 5:10
  Speaker 2: even like at the worst case scenario, I still think
• 5:13
  Speaker 2: he sees the field in some packages.
• 5:15
  Speaker 1: To answer your question, I was able to dig up
• 5:16
  Speaker 1: really quickly. He did run a forty. He ran a
• 5:19
  Speaker 1: four to three six, which is very impressive. And remember
• 5:23
  Speaker 1: his his testing was comparison to other safeties coming out
• 5:27
  Speaker 1: because he played safety at Duke, which I think plays
• 5:30
  Speaker 1: in to the Eagles getting him. By the way, his
• 5:33
  Speaker 1: overall ris weight relative athletics score was a five point
• 5:39
  Speaker 1: seventy three out of ten, so that sort of makes
• 5:41
  Speaker 1: him not like most Eagles acquisitions. But as you always say,
• 5:45
  Speaker 1: you know your your height and weight go into that.
• 5:48
  Speaker 1: He's only five ten, I believe is what he measured at.
• 5:53
  Speaker 1: His hands are nine, and having hands aren't a big deal. No,
• 5:55
  Speaker 1: he's actually five nine. He only benched thirteen reps, which
• 6:00
  Speaker 1: is not huge for or important, sort of significant for
• 6:04
  Speaker 1: you know, a free safety. Well, actually he's a box safety,
• 6:07
  Speaker 1: but it's still not It's not important for a defensive
• 6:09
  Speaker 1: back how much you're benching. It's one of those things
• 6:12
  Speaker 1: where if you bench a lot like Quinya Mitchell had
• 6:14
  Speaker 1: a good bench, you're like, hey, that's pretty awesome. That's good.
• 6:16
  Speaker 1: But if you don't know what it says, damn you know,
• 6:20
  Speaker 1: and it'll hold it against you.
• 6:21
  Speaker 2: That's a good way to wear it.
• 6:23
  Speaker 1: He did run only a one nine to five shuttle,
• 6:25
  Speaker 1: which is a little interesting, but yeah, other than that
• 6:28
  Speaker 1: is forty time four to three shows you he's got
• 6:31
  Speaker 1: some good speed. And obviously with this defense sam as
• 6:35
  Speaker 1: we're I was just alluding to Vic Vanchio clearly likes
• 6:39
  Speaker 1: hybrid defensive backs who can play corner. I'm sorry, who
• 6:42
  Speaker 1: can play nickel and safety. I mean, Andrew mccoobaugh has
• 6:46
  Speaker 1: done it, and that's why they liked him, and that's
• 6:49
  Speaker 1: why Sidney Brown really isn't playing as much. And I
• 6:51
  Speaker 1: imagine they'll they'll find use, like you said, if a
• 6:55
  Speaker 1: guy like Michael Carter, whether it's nickel, whether it might
• 6:58
  Speaker 1: be backup safety if they have an injury there. Certainly,
• 7:01
  Speaker 1: his second most snaps have come in the boxes we'll
• 7:03
  Speaker 1: talk about, right, so he can he can fill a
• 7:05
  Speaker 1: couple of roles here, but the one role I think
• 7:07
  Speaker 1: you and I can both agree, and he's not an
• 7:09
  Speaker 1: outside corner. I don't see vic. I know some people thought, well, hey,
• 7:13
  Speaker 1: maybe he's here to challenge the Jacoreyan Bennett, Adri Jackson,
• 7:16
  Speaker 1: Killy Ringo mix. I don't see that as the case.
• 7:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah, no, I agree. And one other note that I'll
• 7:22
  Speaker 2: just add before we get into this is, according to
• 7:25
  Speaker 2: Ian Rappaport, he removed a five million guarantee for injury
• 7:31
  Speaker 2: in twenty twenty six contract year. And I think that's
• 7:34
  Speaker 2: pretty notable, you know, just because it is a big
• 7:38
  Speaker 2: factor whether he'll be on the team, you know, next
• 7:41
  Speaker 2: year or not.
• 7:42
  Speaker 1: Right, Joe, I saw the report too, and I sort of,
• 7:46
  Speaker 1: you know, sometimes like things get massaged a certain way.
• 7:49
  Speaker 1: His I think Ian's the context was how bad did
• 7:52
  Speaker 1: he want to come to the Philadelphia Eagles or the
• 7:54
  Speaker 1: defending or how bad do you want to get away
• 7:58
  Speaker 1: from the New York Jets is probably more of the
• 8:02
  Speaker 1: especially with your you're losing time, right, you're losing reps
• 8:05
  Speaker 1: to who they were playing Javaris Browne, who they traded
• 8:09
  Speaker 1: for you know, new regime, new coaching staff that you
• 8:12
  Speaker 1: see guys like this all the time who are a
• 8:13
  Speaker 1: little bit scheme specific, just fall out of favor. I mean,
• 8:17
  Speaker 1: Aaron Glenn plays a totally different defense than Robert Sally,
• 8:19
  Speaker 1: plays a lot more man coverage, Salas a lot more zone.
• 8:23
  Speaker 1: And they obviously a new GM trades for a guy
• 8:25
  Speaker 1: in Brownlee, he's gonna want to play him. Brownley was
• 8:28
  Speaker 1: playing both slot and outside and so yeah, I think
• 8:30
  Speaker 1: that you're right. I think that was the facilitate move
• 8:33
  Speaker 1: me somewhere where I can play and impact more so
• 8:37
  Speaker 1: than move me to the Eagles. But that's like probably
• 8:39
  Speaker 1: the cherry on or the icing on the cake for him.
• 8:42
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Absolutely, And again, like you, we got to think
• 8:45
  Speaker 2: about when these you know, these tweets come out, these
• 8:49
  Speaker 2: information have been fed to you know, these reporters to
• 8:53
  Speaker 2: some degree, you never know if it's coming from the agent.
• 8:55
  Speaker 2: You never know if it's coming from the team. I
• 8:58
  Speaker 2: mean when you see something like that, is it comes
• 9:00
  Speaker 2: a little bit more clear, uh huh, to the same degree,
• 9:05
  Speaker 2: we want to keep the facts, not necessarily you know,
• 9:08
  Speaker 2: the the opinions.
• 9:10
  Speaker 1: I hear you. All right, let's let's get in. Let's
• 9:13
  Speaker 1: take a look at the notes that you compiled here,
• 9:16
  Speaker 1: and we'll start off just looking. I love that you
• 9:17
  Speaker 1: did this, By the way, this is a fantastic sort
• 9:20
  Speaker 1: of stroll down trade memory lane. And I can't remember
• 9:23
  Speaker 1: a year in which how he's made so many like
• 9:27
  Speaker 1: B or C level trades. I don't mean as like
• 9:30
  Speaker 1: that's my grade for the trade. It's sort of like
• 9:32
  Speaker 1: not the splashiest name, like late day three picks for
• 9:37
  Speaker 1: backups or like contributing players. But it started with that
• 9:41
  Speaker 1: that first trade right of CJ. Gardner Johnson and a
• 9:43
  Speaker 1: Day three pick to Houston for Kenyan Green and a
• 9:48
  Speaker 1: Day three pick. Who won this trade?
• 9:51
  Speaker 2: No One, We all lost speculation won that trade.
• 9:56
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, Look, I thought at the time, Sam that
• 10:01
  Speaker 1: if it didn't work out with Kenyan Green, no harm done,
• 10:03
  Speaker 1: that's fine. But I also, in my mind, not working
• 10:06
  Speaker 1: out meant he wasn't gonna win the starting job. I
• 10:09
  Speaker 1: thought that he would be able to be a functional
• 10:12
  Speaker 1: backup at left guard or right guard. And clearly they've
• 10:15
  Speaker 1: needed a more functional backup at left guard, you know,
• 10:19
  Speaker 1: and haven't had it, So in a way, it's kind
• 10:21
  Speaker 1: of a disappointment. I don't think you can catch it
• 10:23
  Speaker 1: any other way.
• 10:24
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I totally agree. I don't think that was the
• 10:27
  Speaker 2: intention when the trade was made. But I think both teams,
• 10:31
  Speaker 2: you know, they don't feel particularly strongly about either trade
• 10:35
  Speaker 2: because both players probably wouldn't have been on the roster anyway.
• 10:38
  Speaker 2: So there you go.
• 10:41
  Speaker 1: And speaking of two players not currently on the rosters,
• 10:45
  Speaker 1: Harrison Bryant, the Legals traded Harrison Bryant in training camp
• 10:48
  Speaker 1: and a Day three pick for John Metchi and a
• 10:51
  Speaker 1: Day three pick. Metchi I said, four catches eighteen yards
• 10:55
  Speaker 1: Harrison Bryant. I don't believe he's on the fifty three.
• 10:57
  Speaker 1: I think he's on a practice squad and it has
• 10:58
  Speaker 1: been elevated. Or if he is on the fifty three,
• 11:01
  Speaker 1: I know he only has one catch for he's played
• 11:03
  Speaker 1: two games. So who won this trade?
• 11:06
  Speaker 2: Again? Speculation?
• 11:10
  Speaker 1: Oh Man Metchie might Actually, I would think he could
• 11:14
  Speaker 1: have a role with the Jets. I mean they don't
• 11:16
  Speaker 1: throw the ball particularly well, but and Garrett Wilson's been hurt,
• 11:21
  Speaker 1: but you know, Mason Taylor's coming into his own but
• 11:23
  Speaker 1: they really don't have a crystal clear number two or
• 11:25
  Speaker 1: number three receiver.
• 11:27
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I agree. I think he should have an opportunity
• 11:30
  Speaker 2: to play, and I think, honestly, it probably works out
• 11:35
  Speaker 2: really well for both players because he should both have
• 11:37
  Speaker 2: opportunities to see the field.
• 11:39
  Speaker 1: There you go. Now, is there anybody in the league,
• 11:42
  Speaker 1: off the top of your head who has a four
• 11:44
  Speaker 1: in their last name? Because we now have John Metchi three.
• 11:48
  Speaker 1: He gets traded for Michael Carter the second. Do we
• 11:50
  Speaker 1: have a Is there a fourth in the league somewhere?
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: I think there is, I just can't think of it. Yeah,
• 11:56
  Speaker 1: he's got to be an Eagle.
• 11:58
  Speaker 2: It's just he's gotta be.
• 11:59
  Speaker 1: Yeah, we gotta get that. That's gotta happen.
• 12:02
  Speaker 2: That's that's actually a really interesting one.
• 12:05
  Speaker 1: Now, what do you make of the sixth round swap
• 12:08
  Speaker 1: for the seventh? Is this all points system kind of related?
• 12:11
  Speaker 1: And how do you assign points to guys.
• 12:13
  Speaker 2: Like Carter and Willy Lampkin apparently is a fourth?
• 12:17
  Speaker 1: Of course, that's right. I forgot Willy Lampkin is a fourth.
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: How'd you find that out so fast?
• 12:23
  Speaker 2: I googled it really quickly while we were.
• 12:26
  Speaker 1: Okay, the Eagles now need a fifth if it exists.
• 12:32
  Speaker 2: Now that we'll leave that one up to the viewers.
• 12:34
  Speaker 2: If anyone sees that comment it, let us know it's great.
• 12:38
  Speaker 1: So they've had a fir. Obviously, everybody's a first. If
• 12:41
  Speaker 1: they're not a second, earth second, third, and they have
• 12:43
  Speaker 1: a fourth, and yeah, if there is a fifth out there,
• 12:46
  Speaker 1: how he's got to get them. Remember every year, how
• 12:49
  Speaker 1: we would trade with the Patriots in the draft just
• 12:51
  Speaker 1: because and it became like an annual Day three thing.
• 12:53
  Speaker 1: They would swap like six round picks or seventh round
• 12:56
  Speaker 1: picks just to say they did it.
• 12:59
  Speaker 2: I feel like it's been the Texans the Jets.
• 13:02
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and yeah, I.
• 13:03
  Speaker 2: Think those are the two teams that have been recently
• 13:06
  Speaker 2: in recent memory. But yeah, I know, well think about it.
• 13:09
  Speaker 1: Who's the the who is the GM of the Houston Texans?
• 13:14
  Speaker 2: It's still Casario, right, yes?
• 13:15
  Speaker 1: And what organization did he come from?
• 13:17
  Speaker 2: The Patriots?
• 13:18
  Speaker 1: There you go, there, you go all ties together somehow
• 13:25
  Speaker 1: so that those are the look at the trades. But again,
• 13:28
  Speaker 1: this is is this point system relative in your mind,
• 13:31
  Speaker 1: Like you're getting a player of Michael Carter, he's worth
• 13:34
  Speaker 1: so you got to like round it out with points.
• 13:36
  Speaker 1: I always wonder how the sixth and the sevenths just
• 13:38
  Speaker 1: go back and forth like it's you know, like you know,
• 13:41
  Speaker 1: the side dish at dinner. Here's yours, here's yours.
• 13:43
  Speaker 2: You know. Well, to be fair, I really think that
• 13:46
  Speaker 2: the sixth and seventh aren't going to be that different.
• 13:49
  Speaker 2: I agreed anticipate the Eagles to still be a pretty
• 13:52
  Speaker 2: good team. The Jets have a lot of stuff they
• 13:54
  Speaker 2: have to figure out. So I think at most there's
• 13:57
  Speaker 2: like a fifteen to twenty point spread between picks.
• 14:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and the idea the reality of these teams keeping
• 14:05
  Speaker 1: these picks and not winding up packaging them trading them
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: are you know, very very low. In my opinion, you'll
• 14:10
  Speaker 1: probably see them move two times over.
• 14:14
  Speaker 2: All.
• 14:14
  Speaker 1: Right, I like what we've done here. So you've got
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: Michael Carter's addition here in the Philadelphia Ego's cornerback room
• 14:22
  Speaker 1: after the trade. So you compare Michael Carter's advanced analyts
• 14:26
  Speaker 1: or some of his basic stats really and advanced stats
• 14:29
  Speaker 1: to other guys in the league. So what do you
• 14:33
  Speaker 1: We show the chart? And for those listening, what stands
• 14:36
  Speaker 1: out to you most?
• 14:38
  Speaker 2: Yeah? So this, this particular one is for the outside
• 14:41
  Speaker 2: corner status.
• 14:42
  Speaker 1: Oh I'm sorry, Yes, I meant to mention that outside corner, which.
• 14:45
  Speaker 2: Is interesting because it goes exactly to your point that
• 14:47
  Speaker 2: you made when we started the video in that he's
• 14:51
  Speaker 2: not really going to compete for the outside snaps. You
• 14:54
  Speaker 2: look that he's had twenty one this season, and you
• 14:59
  Speaker 2: look at that and Bennett also has had twenty one
• 15:03
  Speaker 2: this season, which is interesting that they're the same, but
• 15:06
  Speaker 2: you know, it's it's not really been an area of
• 15:10
  Speaker 2: where he's been played. You know, you look at these
• 15:14
  Speaker 2: statistics and they're nothing too crazy if he on the outside. Actually, overall,
• 15:19
  Speaker 2: we have the overall QBR on there when targeted, and
• 15:24
  Speaker 2: Carter actually has the worst of any corner over twenty
• 15:28
  Speaker 2: snaps play.
• 15:29
  Speaker 1: Right, by the way, what is the CoV in snacks?
• 15:33
  Speaker 1: Cover snaps, cover snaps?
• 15:34
  Speaker 2: Right?
• 15:35
  Speaker 1: Okay, So if you're really breaking this down for those listening,
• 15:39
  Speaker 1: he's played two and I'm sorry, twenty one snaps on
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: the outside this year. He's been targeted twice. He allowed
• 15:46
  Speaker 1: a reception for thirty one yards and thirty three of
• 15:50
  Speaker 1: those yards were after the catch. So was this of
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: scrimmage minus two pass that turned into a thirty three
• 15:57
  Speaker 1: yard game or thirty one? Yeah? Is that is that
• 15:59
  Speaker 1: what we're Okay? So we clearly missed the screen, somebody
• 16:03
  Speaker 1: got thirty three yards on it, and that's all the
• 16:06
  Speaker 1: real data that we have to.
• 16:07
  Speaker 2: Analyze, yes, which is probably not so fair to go after,
• 16:12
  Speaker 2: but that's that is what the data says according to PFF.
• 16:15
  Speaker 2: These are all PFF stats.
• 16:16
  Speaker 1: So right right, and by the way, just for context,
• 16:19
  Speaker 1: because I would now would like to apply some of
• 16:21
  Speaker 1: this to the other guys on the outside. Why s
• 16:26
  Speaker 1: is yards per snap yes allowed? Okay? S slash T
• 16:31
  Speaker 1: would be what separation.
• 16:33
  Speaker 3: Parathroat snaps for target snap per target okay? And then
• 16:38
  Speaker 3: reception snaps per reception, So that'll be important for as
• 16:42
  Speaker 3: we go through some of the other guys here.
• 16:44
  Speaker 2: Yeah, And honestly, this is a great opportunity to kind
• 16:47
  Speaker 2: of assess that CB two position outside of Michael Carter,
• 16:50
  Speaker 2: which I think is kind of interesting to put here.
• 16:53
  Speaker 2: And I think we could just take a quick second
• 16:55
  Speaker 2: just to talk about where that competition has kind of been.
• 16:59
  Speaker 2: So if you're looking at everybody will look at kind
• 17:02
  Speaker 2: of that second tier of Ringo, Jackson, and Bennett, right
• 17:06
  Speaker 2: just for a second, you look at their qbrs. They're
• 17:08
  Speaker 2: all roughly similar, right, Ringo's at eighty eight, Jackson's at
• 17:13
  Speaker 2: eighty five point six and Bennet's at eighty point eight,
• 17:17
  Speaker 2: so again not a crazy spread. It gets a little
• 17:21
  Speaker 2: bit more interesting when you look at how many snaps
• 17:23
  Speaker 2: they've played. Ringo's at one point fifty three, Jackson's at
• 17:26
  Speaker 2: one twenty three, Bennett has been hurt is at twenty one.
• 17:30
  Speaker 2: You look at the targets, it seems like they really
• 17:34
  Speaker 2: are targeting Jackson when he's on the field. Ringo has
• 17:37
  Speaker 2: eighteen targets, Jackson's twenty seven, Bennett is nine. So I
• 17:42
  Speaker 2: guess it's actually really interesting because you look at Bennett
• 17:45
  Speaker 2: and he's targeted nine out of his twenty one covere snaps.
• 17:48
  Speaker 2: So really they're going after the position, I think is
• 17:50
  Speaker 2: probably a more fair way to say it.
• 17:52
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I would agree with you. And contextually, when
• 17:57
  Speaker 1: Bennett was playing earlier in their season, they were going
• 18:00
  Speaker 1: up against Matthew Stafford, they were going up against Dak Prescott,
• 18:04
  Speaker 1: they were going up against who's oh, Patrick Mahomes. Week two,
• 18:08
  Speaker 1: I do feel like when you see that Ringo hasn't
• 18:12
  Speaker 1: been targeted as much, I almost feel like if he
• 18:16
  Speaker 1: were the starter in week three, his stats would be
• 18:19
  Speaker 1: probably worse two because, for whatever reason, Wentz and Dart
• 18:24
  Speaker 1: just did not go after CB two as much as
• 18:28
  Speaker 1: I think, say Jordan Love and Goff in the next
• 18:33
  Speaker 1: week will coming out of the by you know what
• 18:35
  Speaker 1: I'm saying.
• 18:35
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a really good point. Thank you for bringing
• 18:38
  Speaker 2: it up. But if you look at the rest of
• 18:41
  Speaker 2: the stats, you know, Ringo let we eat a lot,
• 18:44
  Speaker 2: eleven receptions on the eighteen targets for one hundred and
• 18:47
  Speaker 2: seventy two yards. Jackson allowed seventeen receptions on twenty seven
• 18:52
  Speaker 2: targets for two hundred and one yards. Bennett six receptions
• 18:56
  Speaker 2: on nine targets for fifty yards, none of them allowed
• 19:00
  Speaker 2: a touchdown or an interception. Degene is the only one
• 19:03
  Speaker 2: that's allowed to touchdown as an outside corner this year.
• 19:07
  Speaker 2: And then if you look at the yards for snap,
• 19:11
  Speaker 2: you have Bennett at the worst at two point three eight,
• 19:15
  Speaker 2: everyone else of those three somewhat similar one point one two,
• 19:19
  Speaker 2: one point sixty three. Yeah, snaps per target. Again, when
• 19:24
  Speaker 2: Bennet's on the field, he's getting targeted. He was getting
• 19:26
  Speaker 2: targeted again, small sample size, but two point three snaps
• 19:31
  Speaker 2: like targets per snap, So yeah, the other way around.
• 19:34
  Speaker 2: But you know what I mean, Yeah, they.
• 19:35
  Speaker 1: Went after him when he got in. I mean, it's
• 19:37
  Speaker 1: what any coach is going to do, right when they
• 19:38
  Speaker 1: see the the backup corner get into the game.
• 19:41
  Speaker 2: For sure. So that's that's kind of where we're at
• 19:44
  Speaker 2: with that, and I just think it's an interesting time
• 19:45
  Speaker 2: to just kind of assess the situation what this means.
• 19:50
  Speaker 2: I mean, if you look at Degene, who could potentially
• 19:53
  Speaker 2: see more snaps it outside, let's just see how he
• 19:55
  Speaker 2: compares to that. I mean, he had ninety two of
• 19:58
  Speaker 2: them on the outside. He allowed four receptions on nine
• 20:02
  Speaker 2: targets for fifty nine yards. He allowed that one touchdown,
• 20:05
  Speaker 2: but he's only allowing zero point six four yards per snap,
• 20:12
  Speaker 2: which is the best out of all outside corners. It's
• 20:16
  Speaker 2: better than Quinjan Mitchell two. Right. But again it's a
• 20:19
  Speaker 2: relative stat right, because you're going to allow more yards
• 20:24
  Speaker 2: more steps you play. But again it's a like I said,
• 20:26
  Speaker 2: relative snap relative calculation, so it compares it regardless of
• 20:33
  Speaker 2: the volume. But ultimately, the more you play, the more
• 20:37
  Speaker 2: yards you'll allow, So it should, you know, it definitely
• 20:42
  Speaker 2: should kind of regress to the mean, I think is
• 20:44
  Speaker 2: a good way to put it.
• 20:46
  Speaker 1: Sure, and then also contextually, when you're the outside corner.
• 20:50
  Speaker 1: In base defense, like early downs, usually you're you're going
• 20:55
  Speaker 1: up against a team that's trying to look like it's
• 20:57
  Speaker 1: gonna run the pass, and they work a lot of
• 20:58
  Speaker 1: play action, and so you have the keys and responsibilities
• 21:01
  Speaker 1: that are a little bit different, and so sometimes you
• 21:03
  Speaker 1: can give up a little extra or I I remember
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: there was a play somebody ran a slant like a
• 21:09
  Speaker 1: who did they play recently? I think it was the Vikings,
• 21:10
  Speaker 1: Yeah to Jefferson, went tit Jefferson on a slant with
• 21:14
  Speaker 1: Cooper in coverage. But it's first down. They were heavy upfront,
• 21:17
  Speaker 1: you know, like that's gonna.
• 21:18
  Speaker 2: Happen, Yeah, which is why statistics are never perfect, right,
• 21:22
  Speaker 2: especially these ones like context is always king always Yeah.
• 21:27
  Speaker 1: And then you'll notice for those watchs you can see
• 21:29
  Speaker 1: like the yards after catch. Clearly if you're a slot corner.
• 21:33
  Speaker 1: Mostly these are just outside corner stats. But if you're
• 21:37
  Speaker 1: a slot corner by nature, as we'll see, you tend
• 21:39
  Speaker 1: to give up more yards after catch it in an
• 21:41
  Speaker 1: outside corner, yep, just because of the way. You know,
• 21:45
  Speaker 1: you have to worry about two ways, and you don't
• 21:46
  Speaker 1: have a sideline, So someone catches something in front of
• 21:49
  Speaker 1: you they can, they can get extra yards, but these
• 21:51
  Speaker 1: were outside corner stats that you were getting to. I
• 21:53
  Speaker 1: just wanted to add that to No.
• 21:54
  Speaker 2: I appreciate it.
• 21:55
  Speaker 1: That's a point, and obviously, I think you know it
• 21:58
  Speaker 1: goes without saying, Quinna Mitchell has been beasting this year
• 22:02
  Speaker 1: with a sixty three point three quarterback rating against and
• 22:05
  Speaker 1: really solid numbers there in the advanced analytics, and he's
• 22:09
  Speaker 1: not allowed touchdown yet.
• 22:11
  Speaker 2: Correct.
• 22:12
  Speaker 1: Awesome, all right, so let's get into the meat and potatoes,
• 22:16
  Speaker 1: because we really suspect that if Michael Carter Junior get
• 22:20
  Speaker 1: the second, I mean gets on the field, it will
• 22:22
  Speaker 1: be in the slot. It'll be really interesting to see
• 22:27
  Speaker 1: Sam just how quickly this move might be made. I mean,
• 22:31
  Speaker 1: it might listen right now. He's a depth piece. I
• 22:34
  Speaker 1: don't think that they line up against the Packers first
• 22:38
  Speaker 1: nickel snap and Kooper and Jean's outside corner at all.
• 22:40
  Speaker 1: You know, I think that first of all, you have
• 22:42
  Speaker 1: to see what Michael Carter, how he had acclimates to
• 22:45
  Speaker 1: your defense, his conditioning. You mentioned his health issues. He
• 22:48
  Speaker 1: had a concussion this year. He missed three games. That
• 22:50
  Speaker 1: was not your routine concussion. So there's a whole lot
• 22:53
  Speaker 1: of they have a plan, but there's a whole lot
• 22:55
  Speaker 1: of fact finding to see if they can make that
• 22:58
  Speaker 1: plan work.
• 22:59
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think I think this was a long term move,
• 23:01
  Speaker 2: like a playoff move, even like I think you temper
• 23:04
  Speaker 2: expectations a little bit. I do think he will see
• 23:07
  Speaker 2: the field, but I don't think he'll immediately be a
• 23:09
  Speaker 2: starter or key contributor. I think it'll take a couple
• 23:12
  Speaker 2: of weeks.
• 23:12
  Speaker 1: Right, Okay, So what we have here in this next
• 23:15
  Speaker 1: chart is Michael Carter to the second compared to Cooper
• 23:19
  Speaker 1: to Gene in the slot this year, right, This is
• 23:22
  Speaker 1: not a career total, this is this year this year,
• 23:26
  Speaker 1: all right? So I mean, so Carter has a ninety
• 23:29
  Speaker 1: nine to two pass rating against Cooper has ninety one
• 23:32
  Speaker 1: to one. And it's interesting in that Cooper has played
• 23:38
  Speaker 1: a lot, obviously a lot more. That's why Carter was
• 23:41
  Speaker 1: traded almost you know, three times as many, maybe more
• 23:44
  Speaker 1: than three times as many snaps in the slot. So
• 23:48
  Speaker 1: I wonder does that number for Michael Carter look with
• 23:50
  Speaker 1: more time, look closer to Cooper's or does it get bigger?
• 23:53
  Speaker 2: You know, you just don't know, You just don't know
• 23:55
  Speaker 2: for sure. And I think it's interesting. So we have
• 23:58
  Speaker 2: the total QBR and then there's all so the slot QBR,
• 24:01
  Speaker 2: which is all the way to the right, and you
• 24:03
  Speaker 2: look at it and they're both better in the slot,
• 24:05
  Speaker 2: which is like makes sense because that's the position that
• 24:09
  Speaker 2: they naturally play. But it's it's similar in that anywhere
• 24:14
  Speaker 2: you put Degene, he's probably better than anyone else, like
• 24:18
  Speaker 2: besides maybe Quinyon. Anywhere you put those guys, they're going
• 24:21
  Speaker 2: to be premium assets. But if you look at Carter,
• 24:24
  Speaker 2: I mean again relatively, these are not a lot of snaps.
• 24:28
  Speaker 2: He doesn't have that many snaps coverage snaps, but I
• 24:32
  Speaker 2: mean he's better at his natural position. Shocking, right, I
• 24:35
  Speaker 2: mean that's that's what you take away from that.
• 24:38
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 24:38
  Speaker 2: But I think it's interesting when you look at all
• 24:41
  Speaker 2: the Eagles cornerbacks left that played in the slot, they
• 24:44
  Speaker 2: only had twelve coverage snaps.
• 24:47
  Speaker 1: Wow. That that is really interesting. Yeah.
• 24:50
  Speaker 2: I think it was like four for Quinyon, four for somebody,
• 24:55
  Speaker 2: and then it was one. It was like four four one.
• 24:57
  Speaker 2: I'm sorry, there might have been three. There might have
• 24:59
  Speaker 2: been four. It's four four one three that's what it was.
• 25:02
  Speaker 1: Wow. Yeah, I mean basically it's Cooper unless they're moving
• 25:05
  Speaker 1: Quinnon around to shadow or a receiver. I think a
• 25:08
  Speaker 1: couple of times Quinnon had to those four times we're
• 25:11
  Speaker 1: playing the slot against. If it wasn't Jefferson, it was
• 25:14
  Speaker 1: maybe Ceed Lamb or something.
• 25:15
  Speaker 2: That makes sense. Yeah, it wasn't anything crazy. But you
• 25:20
  Speaker 2: look at these numbers and you know, again it's pretty significant.
• 25:23
  Speaker 2: There's been no touchdowns or interceptions. Right, So both from
• 25:27
  Speaker 2: a great standpoint and like a really negative standpoint. You know,
• 25:31
  Speaker 2: you're doing your job, but you're not. You're not getting
• 25:33
  Speaker 2: killed by letting up touchdowns, but you're also not you know,
• 25:36
  Speaker 2: changing the game with interceptions. But again, you know Carter
• 25:41
  Speaker 2: from the slot this year eight for eleven ninety two yards,
• 25:46
  Speaker 2: Dejene eighteen for twenty five for one hundred and forty
• 25:49
  Speaker 2: seven yards, all other egos slot corners, uh two for
• 25:53
  Speaker 2: three twenty two yards.
• 25:54
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and like I was saying, you see that more
• 25:56
  Speaker 1: than fifty percent of the yards that both of these
• 25:58
  Speaker 1: guys have allowed have been after to catch, because that's
• 26:01
  Speaker 1: the nature of playing the slot. It also someone might
• 26:05
  Speaker 1: look at eight of eleven for Michael Carter. You know
• 26:07
  Speaker 1: that's that's probably a completion percentage of over seventy percent,
• 26:12
  Speaker 1: But so is eighteen of twenty five if I'm not mistaken.
• 26:15
  Speaker 1: I'm not great at math, but that's a pretty high
• 26:17
  Speaker 1: completion percentage, is it not.
• 26:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean both are because of exactly what you said.
• 26:22
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's the nature of the position. You're what you're
• 26:24
  Speaker 1: really trying to do is limit as much as you
• 26:27
  Speaker 1: can in the yard to have to catch and make
• 26:29
  Speaker 1: the tackle. EPA is a tough one too on this, right,
• 26:33
  Speaker 1: because like.
• 26:33
  Speaker 2: I'm pretty sure those are almost exactly the same number.
• 26:36
  Speaker 1: By the way.
• 26:36
  Speaker 2: Really it's it's like.
• 26:39
  Speaker 1: Like it's gotta be like seventy two seventy three percent. Yeah, right, yeah,
• 26:43
  Speaker 1: I bet you nobody. I bet you. If you ask
• 26:44
  Speaker 1: the Comedy Equals fan, what do you think the completion
• 26:46
  Speaker 1: percentage against Cooper de Gene at slot is, they would
• 26:50
  Speaker 1: not say anything close to seventy two percent?
• 26:53
  Speaker 2: Well, because it doesn't feel that way, but it I mean,
• 26:56
  Speaker 2: that's just you're right. The nature of that position. You
• 26:58
  Speaker 2: don't have as much help as you do at corner
• 27:00
  Speaker 2: in terms of like the sideline. You know, you don't funnel,
• 27:03
  Speaker 2: there's just way more space to cover.
• 27:06
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, And I always say, like completion percentage against
• 27:09
  Speaker 1: a defensive back is also contextual. If it's third and
• 27:12
  Speaker 1: nine and somebody completes a seven yard pass in front
• 27:15
  Speaker 1: of you, you did your job. You gave that pass up,
• 27:19
  Speaker 1: you played the sticks, you kept it in front, You
• 27:21
  Speaker 1: forced them into punt, unless it's the Eagles and they're
• 27:23
  Speaker 1: gonna touch push. But you know, you know what I'm saying.
• 27:25
  Speaker 1: But in the box score, you gave up a completion
• 27:29
  Speaker 1: yards potentially, even you're a few yards after the catch.
• 27:32
  Speaker 1: That maybe not reflect the job that you did. Well done. Sure,
• 27:38
  Speaker 1: what do you what do you make of of Cooper's advance?
• 27:41
  Speaker 1: You know, the yards per snap and the what is
• 27:44
  Speaker 1: sty again? I don't know, I'm losing target snaps for
• 27:47
  Speaker 1: target Yeah.
• 27:49
  Speaker 2: I had the whole thing written out, but then it
• 27:50
  Speaker 2: became too jumbled.
• 27:51
  Speaker 1: So no, that's okay. I should remember this stuff right now.
• 27:54
  Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean that's just like out of the times
• 27:57
  Speaker 2: you're out there, like, how often are just a targetvolume stat?
• 28:01
  Speaker 1: Yeah? I mean it looks like that people don't want
• 28:05
  Speaker 1: to go after Cooper de Gene very much. I mean,
• 28:07
  Speaker 1: he's green in all these categories, whereas they're more they've
• 28:09
  Speaker 1: been more willing to go after Michael Carter the second.
• 28:12
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and I think some of I don't think the
• 28:15
  Speaker 2: Jets defense has been particularly great this year.
• 28:18
  Speaker 1: I think that's a huge contextual part of it as well.
• 28:21
  Speaker 1: Good point.
• 28:22
  Speaker 2: I think that's an important consideration when you look at
• 28:25
  Speaker 2: because you know, not all these stats are just individual, right,
• 28:29
  Speaker 2: I mean some of them are a reflection of the
• 28:31
  Speaker 2: defense you play in. Your stats will become better, you know,
• 28:34
  Speaker 2: if you have a better front seven, if you have
• 28:38
  Speaker 2: better teammates besides you like, these stats do improve for
• 28:42
  Speaker 2: those reasons. If the Eagles can figure out the pressure issues,
• 28:46
  Speaker 2: which we will talk about next week. Yeah, I do
• 28:51
  Speaker 2: think both of their stats will improve just naturally.
• 28:54
  Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean the Jets have been one of the
• 28:56
  Speaker 1: worst defenses in the league up until the last two weeks.
• 28:59
  Speaker 1: They played better than are really game against the Broncos.
• 29:02
  Speaker 1: They did not have a good defensive game against the Bengals,
• 29:04
  Speaker 1: but they won. I guess they had a good defensive
• 29:06
  Speaker 1: second half.
• 29:07
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but you don't allow thirty eight points and say, oh,
• 29:10
  Speaker 2: that's a great defensive game.
• 29:12
  Speaker 1: Right. The funny thing is, I remember when the Lions
• 29:16
  Speaker 1: had Year one of Campbell and Glenn and that whole staff.
• 29:20
  Speaker 1: They were really bad defensively too, because Glenn loves to
• 29:23
  Speaker 1: play man coverage. He loves the blitz. I mean, that's
• 29:26
  Speaker 1: the kind of defense he grew up in right with
• 29:29
  Speaker 1: Parcels and Belichick when they were with the Jets. And
• 29:32
  Speaker 1: eventually history showed that the Lions figured it out. Obviously,
• 29:37
  Speaker 1: have to add to the personnel. I thought the Jets
• 29:39
  Speaker 1: had better personnel to be this bad. You know, I
• 29:43
  Speaker 1: know Jermaine was coming back from the injury, but Sauce Gardner,
• 29:47
  Speaker 1: their other defensive back, was pretty decent. Their linebackers or
• 29:51
  Speaker 1: line so I don't think there was as much of
• 29:53
  Speaker 1: an excuse to be this bad. But I think Aaron's
• 29:55
  Speaker 1: just got had to figure out if personnel, and clearly
• 29:57
  Speaker 1: they just didn't see Michael Carter. And by the way,
• 30:00
  Speaker 1: the new GM there movie, he drafted two defensive backs
• 30:03
  Speaker 1: as well. One of them was the kid from Florida
• 30:06
  Speaker 1: State Asarea Thomas. Yeah who, I'm sure they want to
• 30:09
  Speaker 1: get him on the field now and then get Brownlee
• 30:11
  Speaker 1: in the slot more so.
• 30:13
  Speaker 2: No, absolutely, I think it makes sense. And you know
• 30:16
  Speaker 2: that the Joe Douglas connection. Still, I don't know if
• 30:19
  Speaker 2: we I don't think we talked about that yet. Nope,
• 30:21
  Speaker 2: But I mean it makes sense that he would be
• 30:24
  Speaker 2: saying get get this guy over because I mean he
• 30:26
  Speaker 2: drafted him and extended him.
• 30:28
  Speaker 1: So yeah, yeah, absolutely. Hey the Eagles in twenty seventeen
• 30:33
  Speaker 1: in a different way, but you know, they added a
• 30:35
  Speaker 1: kind of of a versatile piece when they brought in
• 30:39
  Speaker 1: the guy from the Ravens, Corey Graham, and he wound
• 30:42
  Speaker 1: up playing like a really vital part of a dime package.
• 30:45
  Speaker 1: That or a big nickel they called it, but he
• 30:47
  Speaker 1: could have called it a dime to you because Corey
• 30:49
  Speaker 1: played both corner and safety, so you didn't exactly know
• 30:52
  Speaker 1: what to call him at that point. But this is
• 30:54
  Speaker 1: similar where and I don't think this has been discussed
• 30:57
  Speaker 1: Vic has not played a whole lot of dime year
• 31:00
  Speaker 1: because they really hasn't had two really good interior defenders.
• 31:04
  Speaker 1: And I think this gives him the optionality to go
• 31:07
  Speaker 1: play some dime if he wants to, especially when he
• 31:09
  Speaker 1: starts to play the Packers, the Lions, those teams that
• 31:13
  Speaker 1: like to spread it out, even the Commanders like to
• 31:15
  Speaker 1: put a lot of receivers on the field. So if anything,
• 31:18
  Speaker 1: we might see the birth of a new package being
• 31:20
  Speaker 1: used by VIC just to get Michael Carter's talent on
• 31:23
  Speaker 1: the field.
• 31:23
  Speaker 2: I mean that totally makes sense to me, and I
• 31:25
  Speaker 2: think you that there's value in that optionality, I mean,
• 31:29
  Speaker 2: being able to change personnel to change looks. It gives
• 31:32
  Speaker 2: a little extra flavor to that Eagles defense. That is Honestly,
• 31:36
  Speaker 2: it's weird to say it struggled a little bit. I
• 31:38
  Speaker 2: mean it's it's it's hard to say because I think
• 31:41
  Speaker 2: they've been playing pretty well overall, but compared to what
• 31:44
  Speaker 2: they were, compared to what they could be, you know,
• 31:47
  Speaker 2: there's a lot of things that they could and should
• 31:49
  Speaker 2: change in order to you know, try to compete again
• 31:52
  Speaker 2: this year.
• 31:52
  Speaker 1: Yeah, one hundred. All right, So that was a great
• 31:55
  Speaker 1: look at Michael Carter Junior's advanced stats, and we'll see
• 31:59
  Speaker 1: what kind of role that he plays. And then the
• 32:01
  Speaker 1: next time we do Inside the Data next week, we
• 32:04
  Speaker 1: will give a bigger summation right of the first half.
• 32:07
  Speaker 1: I know you've been pouring through all the analytics, Sam,
• 32:09
  Speaker 1: So thanks for all your hard work, man.
• 32:11
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I appreciate it.
• 32:12
  Speaker 1: All right, you got it. That is another episode of
• 32:14
  Speaker 1: Inside the Data on Inside the Birds for Sam Finkel.
• 32:17
  Speaker 1: I'm Jeff Mosher, We'll catch you all on the next one.