Latest / My Dental Playbook / 051 PPO is Bleeding You Dry (3 Ways to Stop It)

Transcript

051 PPO is Bleeding You Dry (3 Ways to Stop It) · My Dental Playbook

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_00: The business model for dentistry, if you're in network with insurances, is absolutely broken.
• 0:05
  SPEAKER_00: You are getting crushed, you are getting smashed, your margins are gone because the insurance company keeps going like this.
• 0:11
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, we're gonna pay you this much, you're gonna pay you this much.
• 0:13
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, we're just not even gonna pay you after you do the work.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_00: And then you get to decide if you want to keep the patient or not, right?
• 0:17
  SPEAKER_00: Like, do you want to just write it off or do you want to lose the patient?
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_00: Insurance companies have figured out the game, but the dentists haven't.
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome back to another episode of my dental playbook.
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_00: I'm your co-host, Gary Bird.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_00: Along with my friend Dr.
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_00: Blake Hamblin, we're gonna be diving deep into his office and how he's doubled his collections in just under 12 months.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_00: We're also gonna be talking about his journey to a$10 million practice and what he needs to do to get there.
• 0:39
  SPEAKER_00: You're gonna see behind the curtain, and Dr.
• 0:41
  SPEAKER_00: Blake is amazing at sharing the hard details that you need to know so you can do the same too.
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_00: If you want to grow, this is the show for you.
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_00: Stay tuned.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_00: All right, we are live for another episode.
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_00: And today we're going to be talking about something that keeps coming up online.
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_00: I hear this all the time.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_00: I just had a comment today on one of my videos.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, Gary, but that's for fee for service offices or out-of-network offices.
• 1:05
  SPEAKER_00: We're us PPO offices, we can't do that.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_00: We can't market, we can't spend money on things because the business model is broken.
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_00: And I agree with you.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_00: The business model for dentistry, if you're in network with insurances, is absolutely broken.
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_00: You are getting crushed, you are getting smashed, you are your margins are gone because the insurance company keeps going like this.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, we're going to pay you this much, we're going to pay you this much.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, we're just not even going to pay you.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_00: We'll just not pay you for that after you do the work.
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_00: And then you get to decide if you want to keep the patient or not, right?
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_00: Like, do you want to just write it off or do you want to lose the patient?
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_00: And so they the insurance companies have figured out the game, but the dentists haven't.
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_00: And I was talking with you, Dr.
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_00: Blake, and I was like, you're out of network.
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_00: So you kind of escape the matrix.
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_00: But what about the people who are in network?
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_00: And you were like, yeah, I got friends that are absolutely crushing it, and they're like 100% in network and they market and they spend they spend a boatload of money on marketing, or they spend a boatload of money on building new buildings.
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_00: How are they doing it?
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_00: And so we came up with three pillars today, and we're gonna work through those.
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_00: So any before we jump into the three pillars, any thoughts?
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I had one, but it just escaped my mind.
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_00: That's bad for podcasting.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I know, right?
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_01: Um no, it it was around like I think oh, it was about uh being in network.
• 2:27
  SPEAKER_01: So like being in network for a long time was was totally a volume game.
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_01: And like now with reimbursements getting lower and lower and um and honestly just like overhead being getting out of control for so many of these offices, it's even more of a volume gain.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_01: And so the question is, is like, okay, if insurance has a cap on how much it can help me, that's why people end up in this position where they're like, I know I need to market, but I can't afford it.
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_01: And so then that's when they start asking, do I go out of network?
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_01: Um, all these things, and it just feels like the walls are closing in.
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_01: And so if you are a network, the people that I know that are killing it, they understand that this is the name of the game is how many people can I see?
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_00: Period.
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_00: B.
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_00: I would push back on that, right?
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_00: So the if the audience is watching, they would say, Whoa, whoa, whoa, I'm losing money as I see patients.
• 3:23
  SPEAKER_00: So you want me to see more people I'm losing money on?
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_00: And it's like, no, no, no, no.
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_00: You got to change the systems that you have.
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_00: And they're not, these are not catastrophic changes.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_00: Like, these are not things that dentists can't wrap their brain around.
• 3:35
  SPEAKER_00: A hundred percent you can understand them.
• 3:38
  SPEAKER_00: A hundred percent almost every dentist can execute on them.
• 3:41
  SPEAKER_00: It's just a matter if you can get over the limiting beliefs that you were taught about dental.
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_00: Like what I've experienced is dentists have learned these things from dentists a long time ago who were successful in the 80s, and business has shifted.
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_00: So now you have to do new things and different things, and the things that used to work don't work anymore.
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_00: So let's jump into these three pillars because I think these are really key.
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_00: So the first pillar we talked about is training, which I know a lot of people don't like doing that, but it's a necessity.
• 4:11
  SPEAKER_00: You got to train your team.
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_00: And what do we train them on?
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_00: We got to train them on the phones.
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_00: How are we answering questions on the phones?
• 4:19
  SPEAKER_00: And we have to train them on how fast you're getting patients in.
• 4:23
  SPEAKER_00: What most dentists don't realize about the front desk is that every patient that they schedule right away and cram into the schedule the way that you want, it's just extra work for them.
• 4:33
  SPEAKER_00: That's all it is.
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_00: So they would rather push them out and extend them and not have the patients come in.
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_00: So a lot of dental offices, their front desk is actually screening out new patients.
• 4:42
  SPEAKER_00: While the dentist is stressed out, the front desk is screening out people because it's extra work for them.
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_00: So, what are your thoughts on training, phone, speed to schedule?
• 4:51
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I've I've been actively like doing less dentistry so I can do more training because I believe that that that's going to get us even to the next level.
• 5:01
  SPEAKER_01: Um, specifically, we've onboarded some new treatment coordinators and I'm spending 10 to 15 minutes every day with them uh just working on working on verbage.
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_01: And even the first meeting that we had, I was blown away by the things that I thought may have may have been already taught or coached or or otherwise.
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, man, okay, this is this is why my business needs me still to help add some of this value, because I was giving them some things that I felt were very basic, and I was like, oh man, I thought that's what we're doing.
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_01: And they were like, no, this is this is what we were doing.
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, okay, well, that's good to know.
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_01: Here's how we should do it, and this is how you make it really simple.
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but even from the phone, I mean you can go so granular.
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_01: There's so many areas that if you built it right, that you understand what leads to success more than anybody else.
• 5:53
  SPEAKER_01: And you understand it at a level that's different than anybody else.
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_01: And so the goal would be to get to where other people own that, and that's what I'm working on.
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, but for now, it's review removing uh the need for me to do dentistry as much so that I can work on that, and it it's critical to the success of that case.
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_00: 100%.
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_00: Now, if you want that training, there's a phone training right down below that we have.
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_00: We've built it all out, and there's also a way to build out um block scheduling to make sure you get the patients in as quick as possible.
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_00: Those are right down below.
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_00: You can access those.
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_00: Dr.
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_00: Blake has used those.
• 6:27
  SPEAKER_00: A lot of people have used them, they're very helpful.
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_00: Now, one thing that I've learned about training is how many times, Dr.
• 6:34
  SPEAKER_00: Blake, do you have to ask your kids to do things like, hey, every morning when you wake up, make your bed, or every clean up your toys, or put away your dishes after you eat?
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_00: How many times do you typically have to tell your kids before they actually start doing it?
• 6:47
  SPEAKER_01: A lot.
• 6:47
  SPEAKER_01: And I think I know where you're going.
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_01: And sometimes my team is worse than my kids.
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but yeah, no, it it's it's it's how bad do you feel like the problem is that needs to be solved?
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_01: And for me, once I know that the problem exists, I can't I like fixate on it and I can't get over it until I know that we've at least taken a step forward.
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_01: And so for me, I don't let that thing go away.
• 7:11
  SPEAKER_01: I write it down somewhere so I remember and we address it and address the over and over and over again.
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so for me, I'll have leaders in our company come to me and be like, Gary, I told them three times.
• 7:21
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, only three times.
• 7:23
  SPEAKER_00: I I constantly three times is nothing.
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_00: Like three times is I barely care about this.
• 7:29
  SPEAKER_00: And so we what telling somebody one time does not constitute training and like you can now, if you do an hour-long training, that's different.
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_00: But if you're just saying, hey, in passing, hey, don't ever do this or always do this, you have to constantly repeat that over and over and over again to get the behavior that you want.
• 7:47
  SPEAKER_00: Now, when you document things and then you give them the training, and then you give them verbal training and visual training.
• 7:55
  SPEAKER_00: And I know for you, Dr.
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_00: Black, you have training right by the phone, it's laminated right by all the sterilization equipment check mark.
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_00: Well, that's that reminds them, right?
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_00: So that's that's one time that you've reminded them now every time they walk past it.
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_00: And so there's different ways to hack that, but you have to tell people over and over again.
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_00: I read the book uh Atomic Habits, and it talks about anything that's important is worth worth repeating.
• 8:20
  SPEAKER_00: So the things that are like super important, those we repeat all the time, constantly.
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_00: So, okay, cool.
• 8:27
  SPEAKER_00: So training is number one.
• 8:29
  SPEAKER_00: You have to train, you have to get answer the phones properly, you have to get people in.
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_00: If you now that solves your volume game.
• 8:35
  SPEAKER_00: Then from there, it's treatment presentation.
• 8:39
  SPEAKER_00: So this is the one that I think a lot of dentists get themselves in trouble with because there's a group of dentists out there that are in network because it's easy to sell treatment that way, because you just sell whatever the insurance covers.
• 8:53
  SPEAKER_00: The problem with that is now you can't sell other treatment.
• 8:56
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I think I think the the biggest thing, if I if I go back and look at and remember when I first started and I was on this journey of how do I how do I be a better um treatment cleaner and a presenter of treatment as a dentist, uh, the one the one thing, and I think Chris Phelps said this, but people care more about what they stand to lose than what they stand to gain.
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_01: And that's what I that's kind of what I like lay lay my hat on as I'm training as associates as well, is is if you always go back to reminding people about what it is that you're trying to help them avoid a loss aversion.
• 9:35
  SPEAKER_01: So we don't want this crown to turn into a root canal, or we don't want this uh crown to turn into a uh a fractured tooth that turns into an implant.
• 9:44
  SPEAKER_01: People care more about that than they do, oh my gosh, my crown's gonna be amazing, you're gonna love it, and it's gonna look perfect, and it's gonna blend in perfectly with your teeth.
• 9:53
  SPEAKER_01: Like they just want to avoid cane and spending more money.
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_01: And if you can let them know that that's what you're trying to help them with, I found that that really removes the whole sales y conversation.
• 10:04
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, but it also just leads to better case acceptance.
• 10:07
  SPEAKER_01: Patients just say yes more because they believe you.
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_01: Versus when you're trying to sell them on something else that's not loss aversion, it feels like sales.
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_00: I I think too, you're s when it comes to sales, and I know people don't like that word, but anytime you're selling anything, and we all are selling something, is that you you always have to sell against something.
• 10:28
  SPEAKER_00: So a lot of dentists are just like, hey, you got this work that needs to be done, and it's$3,000.
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_00: Well, you're not actually selling against anything.
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_00: So all the patient thinks is like, okay, I can't even see it.
• 10:39
  SPEAKER_00: It doesn't hurt me.
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_00: So I'll just wait.
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_00: So what I really like, the framework that I've kind of played with, and I, if I was a treatment coordinator, this is how I do it is say you got two options here.
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_00: You can spend money now and solve this problem, which will eliminate the pain.
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_00: You're not gonna get pain in the near future, and you're gonna save money because this filling now is for sure gonna turn into something bigger later.
• 11:03
  SPEAKER_00: And it and there's stair steps.
• 11:05
  SPEAKER_00: I'd explain like filling costs versus root canal costs versus implant costs, right?
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_00: Like there's a stair step, there's a progression.
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_00: And it's not a matter of if, it's just a matter of when.
• 11:15
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 11:15
  SPEAKER_00: So that's option number one.
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_00: Do nothing and and, or I'm sorry, pay for it and get rid of the problem.
• 11:21
  SPEAKER_00: Option number two is just wait and watch.
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_00: But one morning you're gonna or one night you're gonna wake up and go, ow, it hurts now.
• 11:29
  SPEAKER_00: So now you're dealing with physical pain, and it's gonna cost more at that point because now we have a different problem because it's become bigger.
• 11:37
  SPEAKER_00: The option's really yours.
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_00: And when you do that, like for me as the patient, I'm like, oh, I don't want to ever be this is what actually convinced me to start going to the dentist regularly was like, I don't want to be in pain.
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_00: I I I'm scared of the dentist, but I'm more scared of the pain of not doing dentistry.
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_00: But someone had to teach me that.
• 11:53
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_01: And what thing I like to use is, and you'll you'll get this is patients will say, so you're telling me I need four crowns, and I always come back with the same thing.
• 12:03
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, you don't need any.
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_01: These are your teeth.
• 12:06
  SPEAKER_01: I'm just the guy telling you what what I would do.
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_01: If you were my mom, this is what I would do.
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_01: Uh at the end of the day, you can do some none or all this treatment.
• 12:13
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, but my job is to make sure that we avoid the big problems, and I'm really concerned that if we don't get to this soon, that it's gonna turn into something bigger.
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_01: So I guess you don't really need teeth, right?
• 12:24
  SPEAKER_01: To live.
• 12:24
  SPEAKER_01: You don't really need teeth to live, right?
• 12:26
  SPEAKER_01: That's right.
• 12:26
  SPEAKER_00: You can live without teeth and just eat baby food all the time.
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_00: That's right.
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's right.
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it works well.
• 12:31
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's awesome.
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_00: That's a great framing.
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_00: So, okay, so training, phone, speed, schedule, treatment presentation, and this one's a big one, the last one.
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_00: It ties into the treatment presentation, and it's actually a hack that you've been using.
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_00: A bunch of dentists in our mastermind have been using it, and they're a sponsor of our podcast, actually.
• 12:51
  SPEAKER_00: But you were before before they were a sponsor, we were all using it, and a lot of my clients use them.
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_00: It's using cherry with every single patient.
• 12:59
  SPEAKER_00: Tell me about what happened to your practice when you decided to start doing this.
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_01: This was a game changer, and I I think I've shared in the past that I I really didn't want to do this because I was afraid of the fees, and I was afraid of uh what it might say about our practice if we if we dare offer financing to patients.
• 13:17
  SPEAKER_01: Uh but what I found was that you know people just can't afford, I mean, people can't afford groceries, much less like a$500 filling or a$1,200 crown or what whatever it may be.
• 13:30
  SPEAKER_01: And finding ways to make dentistry affordable is is honestly kind of the duty of the dentist and the dental practice.
• 13:39
  SPEAKER_01: And when we started offering that specifically to every patient, number one, it I think it did two things.
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_01: It it it the access to care was there, so we were able to help more people, but it made our conversations more effective.
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_01: We were able our our ability to present a really big treatment actually became even easier because we were able to say, hey Gary, to do these, you know, seven crowns, it's gonna cost twenty thousand dollars or as little as four hundred dollars a month, which of these options works best for you?
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_01: And when you have that in your back pocket, it makes it so much easier versus hey Gary, your treatment's twenty thousand dollars.
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_01: Right?
• 14:23
  SPEAKER_01: Like, and then what happens is you you have nowhere to go from there, you have no negotiating power.
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_00: And that's why patients say, Well, how much is my insurance cover?
• 14:31
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 14:31
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so what I've liked about this the most is it removes the insurance conversation.
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, hey, you could pay this much a month, we've already factored in your insurance, everything.
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_00: It's only$150 a month or$300 a month, and you can get all this work done and you you don't have to worry about this stuff anymore.
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_00: Great, that's awesome.
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_00: I like my wife just went and got two implants and it was like$8,000, right?
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_00: I could have paid cash for it.
• 14:54
  SPEAKER_00: Like I could have.
• 14:54
  SPEAKER_00: I have$8,000, but I'm like, why would I pay$8,000 right now?
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_00: That's a boatload of money for a problem that honestly, my wife, again, she doesn't have to fix it right this second.
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_00: She can fix it a little bit later, whatever.
• 15:05
  SPEAKER_00: And it I was just like, just asking if they do patient pain, oh yeah, they do 12 months interest free.
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_00: Yep, we're doing that.
• 15:12
  SPEAKER_00: Why, yeah, why why not?
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_00: Now imagine somebody who doesn't have$8,000 sitting in the bank, they're in credit card debt, like they're not, they're they're just gonna take the teeth out and walk away.
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_00: And that's that's not what's best for them.
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_01: Well, and and one thing we don't really think about is is the um the emotional side of dentistry.
• 15:31
  SPEAKER_01: And people come in, and some of these people haven't been in a dentist in four or five years, and they're frankly they're just embarrassed about it.
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_01: And then and then you get to slap them in the face with the six thousand dollar and eight thousand dollar uh treatment proposal, and then instead of having an option that says, hey, I know this is a lot of money, but uh, we want to make this as easy and as quick and uh as affordable as possible, we can do this in monthly payments of as low as$200.
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_01: But you're you're just you're just making it more awkward for them.
• 16:01
  SPEAKER_01: You're saying, hey, I know it's been forever since you come in, came in, and because of that, now it's more expensive.
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_01: And it's like, man, throw them a bone.
• 16:10
  SPEAKER_01: And you'll what you'll find is the amount of fees that you pay to cherry, like it's just like taxes.
• 16:16
  SPEAKER_01: If you pay a lot in taxes, you're welcome.
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_01: If you pay a lot to charity, you're welcome.
• 16:23
  SPEAKER_01: I got to do that.
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_01: That just means you're a lot of dentistry.
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_00: It's funny, I was uh I posted about the hygiene thing uh that we did, uh, the podcast about how hey, we pay this much in salary and we pay this much in bonuses, and we pay a little bit below market on salary, but we pay more in the bonuses.
• 16:41
  SPEAKER_00: And a hygienist got on there and was like, you pay higher taxes for the bonuses.
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_00: And it's like, yeah, you pay higher taxes when you make more money.
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_01: That's right.
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, absolutely.
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_01: That's how the world goes around.
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_01: At least it works.
• 16:54
  SPEAKER_00: If you don't go make any money, you're not gonna pay any taxes.
• 16:56
  SPEAKER_00: It's you can pay zero percent tax zero taxes if you want.
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_00: So it's it's just like that's a different subject.
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_01: People want all upside and no downside, but that's a different podcast.
• 17:07
  SPEAKER_00: Different podcast, yeah.
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_00: Well, this is really good.
• 17:09
  SPEAKER_00: If you want that training that Dr.
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_00: Blake just talked about and how his team does it, how his TC does it, he also has some really cool software he's working on.
• 17:16
  SPEAKER_00: It's not ready yet, but he's been building something really cool to make this even easier.
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_00: But if you want the training on the whole thing, it's right down below.
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_00: Go check it out.
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_00: And if you have questions about this, if you go, this is all good in theory.
• 17:28
  SPEAKER_00: Like I hear this a lot.
• 17:29
  SPEAKER_00: I love your guys' podcast.
• 17:31
  SPEAKER_00: I learn a lot from it, but I don't know how to make it like apply to me.
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_00: We literally we hear this all the time.
• 17:37
  SPEAKER_00: Come to our mastermind.
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_00: It's I think it's$299 a month or something like that.
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_00: It's like very cheap.
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_00: Come to it.
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_00: There's no contract.
• 17:44
  SPEAKER_00: Come ask your questions.
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_00: And if it doesn't get traction for you, you can leave.
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_00: But so far, the people who've come, asked their questions and stayed, they've all grown like crazy.
• 17:52
  SPEAKER_00: So if you want to come and get fix your problems, come to the mastermind.
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_00: We'd love to have you.
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's been really fun too.
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_01: I feel like we're we're building a little community within that mastermind too.
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, the people that show up every month um are learning more about each other's practices, and now they're even starting to chime in on on different things for each other, which is which is a lot of fun.
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so I would I would love to be able to help people.
• 18:15
  SPEAKER_01: I I know for years I sat in the dungeon of thinking I had to do this alone.
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_01: And kind of kind of like what we talked about on one of our podcasts, there's just not an entry level that I've seen that is as low as ours.
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_01: And like I said, we're we're kind of giving it away just because we want to help the help the industry and help each other.
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_01: And we just have a lot of fun, you know, throwing stuff against the wall and seeing what will work.
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_01: So if you are struggling or you see yourself bumping up into roadblocks or ceilings of complexity, come join us.
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_01: We'd love to help you out.
• 18:51
  SPEAKER_00: Awesome, man.
• 18:52
  SPEAKER_00: Great show.
• 18:52
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 18:52
  SPEAKER_01: You have a good one.
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_01: Peace.