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True Story: Lessons That One Kid Taught Us with Rachelle Dené Poth - The Authority Podcast 72 · The Authority Podcast — Expert Insights and Fresh Ideas for Education Leaders

• [00:00:00] Welcome In, everybody, to another episode of the Authority Podcast on the Be Podcast Network. Thanks so much for being here. Today I'm talking to Rachelle Dene Poth. Rachelle is an EdTech Consultant. Presenter, attorney, author, and teacher. She teaches Spanish and STEAM at Riverview High School in Oakmont, Pennsylvania. Rochelle is an ISTE Certified Educator, a Microsoft Innovative Educator Expert. She was named one of 150 Women Thought Leaders to Follow in 2022, and one of 30 K 12 iTech IT Influencers in 2021. She was also selected as the 2017 Outstanding Teacher of the Year by the Pennsylvania Association for Educational Communications and Technology, which is the PA affiliate of ISTE. Rochelle is the author of seven books, including True Story Lessons That One Kid Taught Us, published [00:01:00] by EduMatch. Rochelle, welcome to the Authority. Thank you, Ross, for having me and for such a, warm introduction and just giving me some things to think about over the last couple of years. I just, I love learning, I think. So I'm excited to be here. So thank you. Yeah, that's only part of it, listeners. Check out the show notes for even more of that bio. Student Voice is at the center of this book. And, listeners, it's a true story. It's based on, a variety of teachers, right? Sharing stories from the classroom, things they learned from kids. And that. student piece, their perspectives, the things they've shared over the years. That's at the center. And, you also shared with me, I believe that I, the cover art was designed by a student too. So that really is central to the DNA. What's your perspective on the importance of student voice, what it means, why we need it? tHe things that I say now, I wish I knew years ago because When I started teaching, I taught the way that I had been taught because that's what was comfortable for me. That's [00:02:00] what I knew. And it didn't occur to me when I first started teaching to get student input, to offer more choices in learning. It was always like, this is the way I want it. This is the way it has to be. And that was the end of story. But then I started to notice that some students were, for example, like projects, I would want it in a certain format and I would get. a poster with like glitter or something or feathers or whatever. And then next thing you know, it's all in my car, all in my house. And I actually, I admit this, I took off some points in some cases because they didn't follow my rubric and my instructions. But then the more I thought about it, I was like, why does it all have to be the exact same way? Like, why can't they represent what they've learned in a way that's interesting to them? So if they want to draw, if they want to put glitter all over it, And the bigger picture too, is by what they created. And their choices, like you learn about them. And so in doing that, you might learn, a student has a great talent in art or that they're interested in something that otherwise you wouldn't know. So then that leads to conversations and the [00:03:00] building of relationships. And so over the past, oh goodness, probably at least 10 years now, I've really shifted my mindset more towards that partially because I had students that kind of. led me in that direction. And then the other part is because I built relationships with some students that helped me to see things differently. And so now I'm all about having, their input and I see how important it is for them to feel valued in the classroom. And you get great ideas from them too sometimes. So that's why it matters so much to me. aNd so there's a fair amount of this that is those regular things that are happening on a day to day, that if we listen and pay attention closely enough, and absorb it, there's lessons to be learned, but there also is an element of intentionality, of being able to encourage students to share authentically, to voice their opinions, their ideas, and to do that productively, how do teachers look at that and make that more of a practice in the classroom to, I think, [00:04:00] communicate to students that we want to hear from them and we want to learn from what they're thinking and feeling and experiencing. Yeah, I think, and part of it is I think for at least speaking for myself and I'm sure there are other educators out there is that it can feel like it's uncomfortable or, what's going to happen, if we give them too many opportunities to decide on things or open up too many doors to choice. And it is a risk that we take. But I think that, for educators that do it, Like when I started to shift a little bit from the way I had always done things and had more choices for students, like it becomes more exciting for me. Like it also helps me to improve my practice and reflect on what I'm doing. And I'll say to students, I want you to do it this way. But if you have a better idea, then please, by all means, let me know. And I've had some kids come up with some really fantastic ideas, and it wasn't necessarily my original mindset, because, it's kind of hard to break from that structure that I had in place for years, but I'll say to [00:05:00] them, like, oh, I never really thought about that option. Okay, let me think about it for a second. And I try to process it, and sometimes they might say, Here's an option. Let's not do anything like that's not a choice. Like we're doing something, but I think that the more that educators embrace, you know, giving students some choices in learning, being open to their ideas and letting go of, you know, the control that it just, it feels more like it's a must feeling, I guess. I don't have a better way to say that, that you feel like, Oh, I'm the teacher. I have to be in control of the time. But when you let go a little bit, even if it's uncomfortable at first, And opening up those options for students, you get a little bit more used to it, and it really does enhance the learning experience, not just for the students, but for us as educators as well. Yeah. And once, once you've had an opportunity to demonstrate that, to have those conversations, dialogues, to surface some ideas and to try some of them. And there's, of course, court of the authenticity of, okay, we're having these conversations because we want to [00:06:00] really evaluate. Are there different ways to do things? Are there new things we can try? And then, the process feels good to everyone, because asking for feedback in a sense on, okay, what do you think about what we're doing here? We'll talk about vulnerability with respect to the sharing of these stories, but that's a vulnerable position to be in, right? And I think about it in terms of, I work with a variety of professionals and kind of performance and leadership coaching, right? And at the end of sessions, I'll ask, what's your biggest takeaway from this? Or what are you going to remember from our conversation today? And there's always that little fear in the back of your mind that they're going to say nothing, this, I'm not going to remember anything. This wasn't useful to me. Luckily, that hasn't been the case, but there's always that piece of, okay, well. This is the right thing to say, the right question to ask, and also, in that case, the person on the other side knows that they want to [00:07:00] be productive and utilize the lessons they're learning and that it's to their benefit. There's motivation to come up with something. Same as with students. If they feel like, okay, this, my teacher is actually going to consider what I'm saying here, and it's not just, meaningless to answer. Let me really think about something that, that could be valuable. And then, we're in a much better place together. What made you... I want to write this as a book. I know, obviously a lot of the lessons in here are things that you experienced in your own career, but then you incorporate a lot of other voices from educators, but was there a certain point when you thought, you know what, this really should be a book? Yes, and it's funny how it happened because I had written, my first three books I had written at like the same time. And two of those three involved stories from other educators. And I hadn't really thought about the process involved of pulling all the stories in and the organization. I was driving home one day and I thought, Oh. [00:08:00] Wait a minute, I have to put all that together into these books. And, in some of those stories, like in the first couple of books, I shared some things that happened in my classroom. But I started to think about lessons I had learned, and reflected on experiences that I'd had in my first couple of years of teaching. And I grabbed a piece of notebook paper and I just started to write down some things because I was trying to remember, Oh yeah, I forgot about like that one time that this happened and what my response was, whether good or bad. And so I kept making, I kept. And then finally the list was getting so long and I was afraid that I was going to lose it. So I typed it into a document and in the back of my mind I was thinking, Oh, I could probably write a blog about this or something. But I remember having a conversation with a couple of my students. And this is probably the year before this book came out and they said, so what do you write about in your books? And I think at that point I had four of them that were out and I told them, I said, some are stories, some are about ed tech and a variety. And one student said, do you write about us? I [00:09:00] said, you mean like you specifically or students? And they said, no, just about students. And I said, ironically, I said, I have not specifically written about a ton of students. I said, I referenced some experiences. I said, but it's funny you ask because I have this list and they didn't believe me. And so then I showed them this list and it didn't have names. It just had, the events or things that happened. And it was like two pages at the time. And they, one of them said, Wait, are you talking about me in that one? I said, Oh, I'm not going to tell you. I'm not going to reveal my sources. But after that, I started to think about how many times that I had said, seriously, this is a true story. This happened. So that was part of it. The part of the reason behind it. And then I thought, when I look back at those, all of the different lessons that I learned, throughout those experiences. And then another piece was a good friend of mine had always. Always said, true story, just the craziest thing you would ever, want to hear, and he always would end it with true story, so I do talk about him in this book as [00:10:00] well, because he was that one kid, and we weren't friends in high school, we knew each other, I graduated with 600 people, but That ended up being like an end piece of this book, because the book had already been written and everything, but it just, it made me realize when I finalized it before, the final editing process that, what are the lessons that we've learned? And so I reached out to educators, just like I did for the earlier books. To say, do you have a student that you had that taught you a lesson? And what was that lesson? And then just pulled, including myself, there's 38 different educators and organizing it, the book doesn't actually have chapters. It has a theme, but really, it was like a combination of all of those. parts. If you would have told me years ago that I would write a story or a book about stories of things that happen in my classroom, I would have said, maybe I'll share, a couple, but the more that I got the stories in from other educators and reading them, and some of them are like hilarious and some of them are like really sad, but they really make you think and getting that out there. So [00:11:00] teachers realize we learn so much from our students, even if we don't have the best interactions or we don't respond, the right way, it's still a learning opportunity for us. And so the more I thought about it, I thought, you know what, I'm just going to go for this and see what happens with it. And I was really happy with the way that it came out and the stories that were shared. When you think about the stories that are in the book and, there's, and the lessons that are taken from them. Are there some different types or ways that you would categorize them? You said that, there's some that are funny, there's ones that are eye opening, ones that are sad, ones that are challenging, ones that are affirming, right? They're touching in all these different ways, but in going through, there's probably different ways that they're organized and categorized to say, all right, they, there's all these different buckets, right? Yeah, so the, again, the organization piece was a little bit like the [00:12:00] other books, but I didn't have as many people this time. And I was trying to look for some, factors that they had in common. And I was reading the stories, and I read each story multiple times. And I have, my Thrive. It's my LLC. It's it's my brand. And each letter in the word Thrive stands for something. And so then I started to, I went back through the stories and I categorized them based on if they aligned with one of those letters. So in the theme, so it's like tenacity, honesty, relatability. integrity, vulnerability, and empathy. And there are some stories that they hit on all, like all of those, all of them. And so I tried to really, focus in specifically. So when I look at some of the stories, like the vulnerability piece, for me, that is something that years ago, again, sharing. that I was having challenges in the classroom, that I wasn't making connections with students or anything, you feel like it's a sign of weakness, but vulnerability is actually a sign of [00:13:00] strength because you're expressing to somebody that you need some help or that there's an area, something that's bothering you or you're challenged with something. And so the stories in that part of it. Some of them are sad because there are, tragedies that happen in our schools and that we have to deal with and work through. And, part of us wants to be like strong and so forth for our students, but in something that is a tragedy, like you have to show emotion and that might make you vulnerable. Also tying in with empathy. Some of the stories, just like putting yourself in somebody else's shoes or trying to relate to them and understanding that. Maybe the reason that a student like is not paying attention in your class or they didn't do your homework is because they have all of these other things that they're experiencing. And unless you build the relationships, you don't know that. So going through all of the different stories and trying to see, which one of those themes was like the strongest part of that and organize it into the book is how I ended up doing it. And some of them, you could shift around and some, like I [00:14:00] said, they have all of that in it, but I just thought, this kind of makes sense. The way that the stories came through. And in seeking out individuals, students, stories, and really wanting to think about them, reflect on them, hear them, it seems that one of the major. One of the benefits of that is, is that, reminder, reinforcement, affirmation of purpose. I recently spoke with Mandy Freilich about her book, Reignite the Flames, which is about, re engagement after burnout, disengagement, demoralization, all those things that happen through the stresses of the job, and it gets out of it, and, it would seen that getting reengaged with kids and especially individual stories, can cut through some of that overwhelm where the big picture and all of the goals and all the things you're trying to accomplish can seem so challenging. But then thinking about that one kid or those, few kids, it's like, oh, I can think about the impact that [00:15:00] it had on me and that I was able to have on them and build from there, right? That it's not, a class of 30 kids or a school of a thousand kids. It's A thousand different individuals that are making that up and your relationship to them and the influence you may be able to have on them is one to one. Yeah. And the other thing, that I think about too, is like the students, we don't know all there is to know about the students and of course they don't know all there is to know about us and just. Opening ourselves up and sharing our experiences with them, which is another thing, too. In some of the stories, some of the educators didn't realize the student was experiencing a certain challenge and then having the conversation with them and being able to relate to them and then guide and support them. It also makes a difference because, you get to understand the student, you build a relationship, the student knows that they can trust you, they know that you are [00:16:00] speaking from, your own personal experiences, and I think that, again, something I didn't know, I wish I knew years ago, that is really important, especially today, because there are a lot of things that the kids are experiencing in life, and it's important to take time to focus on their wellness. Maybe I don't get through my whole lesson for the day because I get the vibe when the class comes in, something's going on, or, the students and that something's a little bit different about them. But also sometimes we don't know, I love the power of a story and you don't necessarily know the story just by looking at somebody, You might have an idea of what you think that they're about, and you might be spot on, or you might be totally off, and you just never know, and even in the, the quickest moments, the smallest interactions that you can have could make such a difference, not just on, a student's life, but on your own life as an educator, You might be the reason that like they get through the day on some days because you care about them and you stop and you connect with them and vice versa there's days where, we're all tired or we have challenges we're [00:17:00] dealing with as adults and the kids lift us up as well. And so I think, creating that space where. People feel comfortable and supported, and you have all of those, categories, like I mentioned. I think those are characteristics that, we want our students to have, but that we should have also as educators and just, people in general. Yeah. What, why do you feel like it's important for teachers to share these stories with each other and go through that? Because teaching can be an isolating profession, it just, and that's not something that's new. Like George Koros had said, it's a choice that we make, but sometimes it's not a choice that we make necessarily. because you might have so much to do and maybe you're hiding out. Like I, I've said this before, when I first started teaching, even a couple of years into teaching, there were some challenges that I was having, just balancing the schedule with class management, with all of these different things, because in my, Teacher preparation courses, [00:18:00] nothing really necessarily prepares you for when you first enter the classroom, you might have all of these ideas and everything in mind, how you think it's going to be, but then the students, there's so many moving variables on any given day, but for me. I didn't really share any of that with anybody because I was embarrassed. I didn't want anybody to know that I was having, some problems. And it's important that you share because your story might just be the one story that somebody else needs to hear. And I've had, at least a dozen interactions with educators from, not my district, but, just in my network who have said to me, This is going, this is not going well. This is not going well. I don't think I'm cut out for teaching. I can't do this. And I said, Hey, And I, I share my story and they're like, seriously? And I say, yeah. And when you share your story, it's like I said, it just might be what somebody needs to hear. And sharing your story, whether it's a conversation, I, my podcast, I talk about things and just, a real talk. Or if you write a blog, even if [00:19:00] nobody reads it, it's just, it's great for your own reflection. But if just even one person reads it, like they might be the one person that needs to read it. And it's going to keep them going. Yeah. And to know that you're not alone, that people experience similar challenges in the classroom and not everybody has the same experiences, but people will be there to support you. And it's important that we also have our own network, whether it's in our school or via technology, because we have all these opportunities now to connect. Yeah. Are there certain, things that it typically makes you feel, after sharing, let's say like in conversation, right? Yeah. Somebody's sharing some stories that are happening with them. You're sharing some of yours. And of course, the stories may be different. There's the funny ones, the sad ones, but, in, but there still are these through lines, of the way it makes us feel to connect and share and to, to make theory reality, like in theory, yeah. I know that everybody is dealing with [00:20:00] something like this, but until we really hear it and talk about it, I I still feel like it's only me, right? But just, that part of it and of, and of, yeah, stepping into. that vulnerability to say, hey, I'm going to say what's going on with me and maybe I just need to share it and hear that it's not that. tHat out of the ordinary, maybe I'm looking for advice, but whatever the case may be, it just helps to initiate that conversation. Yeah. And I think, part of it too, is when you do share your stories, even if somebody's going to say, wow, that, yeah, you really messed up, you want people to give you honest feedback, but sometimes it's just such a sense of relief to share that with somebody. That's one part of it where you feel like, wow, I had all this stress. I was worried about this. And I just, I, shared it with somebody [00:21:00] and I already feel better just because you got it out there and even sometimes even before they even say anything just that initial feeling. The other part is, whenever people are there to support each other and say, you know what, let's talk through it. I think also that the piece is when you know that you're not the only one that experienced something and you say, Oh, wait, you did that too? Or that happened to you? And just knowing that you're not the only one that's going to have a challenge, or you're not going to be the only person like mess up and responded in the wrong way. Like everybody has been through it, maybe not at the same time, and maybe they didn't resolve it in the same way, but it just helps us to keep learning and I think being mindful of our practices. I've learned to really, there's been a lot of times that I've written about Also where, the way that I responded was I was responding to like the action or the behavior and not seeing the student, I was seeing what they did and I wasn't seeing them and understanding them. And once I got past that and trained myself to think [00:22:00] through and process before I responded, that came after conversation with somebody and they said, well. Have you had to talk to him? And I said, no. And do you know if there's anything going on? I was like, no, I don't. And the next time something like that happened, I had a response, but the, after the class, this, a student came up and I said, I kind of liked it. First I thought they were gonna have detention. And I said, I'd kind of like to have a conversation. When the words came out of my mouth, I was surprised. I was like, wait, what did I just say? And they were confused too. And even just talking through with them, teacher to student, it was like, it was so helpful. And it gave me a chance to think okay, I don't need to respond the same way all the time. Like I need to really understand the student. I need to think before I react. And sometimes it's hard because. Lots of things can happen in a given day in school, in any place, but I think all of those conversations and the sharing of stories on so many different levels, it's beneficial.[00:23:00] Are there any, one or two of the stories from the other contributors to the book that, really stand out to you as either the ones that made you nod your head vigorously, or just the ones that you've never, you've never forgotten, they've just stuck in your head ever since you heard them? Yeah, there, there are, gosh, there's so many. One that, that definitely sticks out is a friend. From, goodness, Oregon, and she talked about a student that she had, she was an English teacher, and she had students who were really having trouble, writing and doing the work, and she ended up getting another student into her class who spoke very little English. Didn't really have, the best study habits. The skills in reading and writing was, they weren't that great. And of course, I mean, this doesn't seem to be a surprise. It wasn't very positive about school because the experience, the whole time had gotten in trouble. And so she didn't know the whole background story. And so she made it her mission [00:24:00] to work with this student and just keep working, working, working. And it took a little bit of time. But she came back into her room and the student had written on the board that she was like the best, best teacher ever. And then, they built this relationship throughout the rest of the year and the student, I think, they didn't anticipate that he was going to graduate, but then he actually graduated and passed everything. And then long after graduation, we're talking like, like a 10 year span of time, they're still connected and she shares the success of this student. And I just, I loved it. I love that story because it's just, there's so many things about it. Getting to know the students, the relationships, how important that is, and then how she worked with that student. And then that continued, it just shows that while a student, and I tell my students this too, you're not just a student that I will support while you're in my class. Like I will. When you graduate, if you need help, reach out to me. That is something that I want all students to know. And even the students that are not like in my class, like I like to try to get to know the [00:25:00] students that are in our schools because that makes a difference too. But, but her story, I remember reading it a couple of times and I just absolutely loved that story, especially because after the book had come out, she had sent me a message and said, you'll never guess who I ran into. And she hadn't seen him in several years. And so that was one of the stories and then I don't like to talk about sad stories, but then there was a story that I had shared about the loss of a student and another, educator had shared as well and just how you deal with that grief and how, it's a mixture of emotions and, you're vulnerable because you're showing your emotion, but you have to be strong because you have to support the students. And how do you deal with that? And I remember reading the story. And I remember reading that story and just, crying, of course, because it resonated with me and our experience in my school, but the lessons that came through, those stories and all the other ones in the book, there are a lot where, maybe you have experienced that, unfortunately, and [00:26:00] it happens. Or some of the stories where you shake your head, you're like, yep, totally have been through that experience. And sometimes there, there were stories too, where the teachers felt like I'm ready to give up, I'm not cut out for this. I can't do it. Or the students, I'm not connecting with them. And then they come to find out, like they are making a difference because then the kids, as they progress, they come back and they're thankful for, the. the nudge that the teachers gave. And there's, I cannot, somebody says, or somebody always asks, you pick a favorite? I'm like, I can't pick a favorite story because there are just so many that are they're all wonderful stories that in one way or another will resonate with you, I'm sure. Yeah, you also talked about that, that phrase that gives the book its title, True Story, right? Which, that often comes up, particularly after, a, funny or outlandish story where, no, this really happened. Is there any that comes to mind where you're like, yeah, I tell people this one and they always look at me like, eh, did that really happen? But [00:27:00] yeah, it really did. Yeah. And that, and it's pretty much like probably one of the number one reasons why I wrote the book. I think it was one of the first stories I put into it and it's mine because I was after school one day and just working at my desk sitting there and students, some of the students went around and vacuumed in the classrooms and I wasn't paying any attention and student was vacuuming and usually really didn't say anything, just, a nod or something. And. I, the vacuum stopped and next thing I know this student is standing next to my desk and I'm like, yes. And they didn't say anything. They just stuck their foot out towards me when I was sitting in my chair and I looked down and I'm like, and they asked me to tie their shoe. And I said, wait, what? They said, could you tie my shoe? And I said, Tie your own shoe! You're like in 10th grade, and I said, and I'm looking like pumped, like the older show pumped with that, I'm waiting for Ashton Kutcher to jump out, and I said, seriously, [00:28:00] you're messing with me right now, aren't you? And they said, no, and I said, Who ties your shoes like for you to come to school or to go anywhere? And they said their parent did. And I cracked up and I said, first of all, I am not tying your shoe. I am going to teach you how to tie your shoe. And it was just I had told some people that. At one point and they were like, seriously, I said, yeah, I said, I still am not sure till this day if that was like legitimate, but I believe that it was, but it was just funny because the way it happened, there was no sound. It's just, the foot was just planted next to me as though I was supposed to know what to do. And then I actually did start to lean in. I'm like, wait, you're not tying this like 15 year old shoe. So I did the, I had to think like how elementary teachers teach kids how to tie their shoes. And I'm like, Do this. And then still in the back of my mind, I'm like, am I just totally being played here right now or not? But that's one of them, that always sticks out. And I used to go, seriously, true story. Like that actually happened. Yeah. And it's the best one because you'll never know. You'll [00:29:00] never know. I know. If you think, it's, I'm sure it's, Challenging now, obviously, given your experience as a teacher and from your view and, thinking about how these stories came about, but is there anything that from your experience as a student that influenced, the way that you also are looking at this and hearing these. These stories and I, I could even think about, and in my experience, not having been a teacher, but having been a student and thinking back on things where there's like these, I feel like there's these unconscious, subconscious things you pick up on as a student that teacher may not be aware of, right? The teacher who's been there for 20, 30 years and has four classes a day, and. There's the one that you can tell it's 30, 20 nameless, faceless, and the other one that looks [00:30:00] is looking at each person individually, right? And it's subtle. It might not be anything that, but if you think about, okay, what is that? How does that make you feel and react and change your opinion? Or, even thinking about, okay, if I was asked I don't know, about things that I would have done differently, but what I probably would have not said much because it was just. It wasn't a negative experience, it just was. This is just what you do, you go to school, you do your work, you go to your sports practice, you go home, you go back the next day, right? It wasn't necessarily, critical thinking and engagement about what's happening here and could it be different and what should it look like wasn't necessarily the way of things. That was, my personal experience and then others had different, but, but as the teacher, right? It's those small nuanced things that make you be aware of what you're doing and what you want to do and how you want it to be, that I'm [00:31:00] sure influence the way that you interact. Yeah, I. I try to think back to when I was in school and there, there are some, really great experiences that stand out in my mind, teachers that I had classes that I took, or, things that my teachers did in class, and then there are some that were not so great. And that kind of formed me. And in a way that, I remember in seventh grade, my algebra teacher had, it just really was not nice to me, and I was so embarrassed in class, and I think that she was trying to be funny, but the way that it came across, it was like, it was embarrassing, because I had an early dismissal, and I can laugh about it now, but I had an early dismissal, and, First of all, I didn't do that well in algebra, so it was like a struggle, and I had an early dismissal that day, and I raised my hand, and she said, what do you want? And it was just the tone, and I said, I have an early dismissal, and then she made some comment, and as I got up to [00:32:00] leave, I must have had some look on my face, and she said, aw, what's the matter? And then she said, are you mad? Don't go away. Wait, don't leave. Just, I forget how she said it now, and I won't get it right. Oh, don't go away. Mad, just go away. That's what it was. And I was like, a seventh grader, I remember getting my grandma picked me up, getting into the car, crying, thinking, I didn't want to go back to class the next day. And I think it was only October. And, so things like that, , using humor in the classroom, there's nothing wrong with that. Like having a sense of humor, but there's a line and I couldn't imagine saying that. to any of my students and some of the, some of those things that were said to me shaped me and I will never like grading with red pen. I'm like, I've never done it. I will never do it. Cause I think back to all of the red marks and comments that were written on some of my papers, but, just some of the experiences. Again, I wish I knew when I first started teaching that it was okay to, be my authentic self and to engage in conversations with students [00:33:00] and to learn from them and to not feel like you have to be the expert and, to laugh, like even today, some of this. Two of the seniors that I've had for the last five years, and now I don't have because, , we're junior senior high school, they stop by almost every single day and just to be able to sit and relax and talk with them about things and just to have seen their growth. And I remember the one she said, I was really afraid of you in ninth grade. I'm like, why would you ever be afraid of me? But it made me think I was like, what are my mannerisms? How are the students viewing me? Because I want them to feel comfortable, but, there's parameters and things that need to be in place, too, for your classroom, but I don't know. I often relate stories from my experiences, in elementary school, geometry ninth grade. That was a topic of conversation a couple of times in a class. Last couple of weeks and just to connect with students to let them know that, some of the experiences that they're having, something new, like we've all gone through it. It's just part of the learning and growing. But I don't know. I do think back [00:34:00] to, the way I experienced as a, or the things I experienced as a student. And it was in, one of Brene Brown's books, it does, it's not the exact thing that she said, write the book that you needed to read. And I've, changed that and I said, be the teacher that you needed. What are the qualities in the teachers that made an impact on you? And what are some of the qualities that didn't, that didn't make you feel comfortable or welcome or supported in the class? And I use that kind of as a compass sometimes to make sure that, I'm. being the person that I need to be for them and for whatever their needs may be. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, I, it's funny about the things that are hard to put your finger on or figure out about demeanor, mannerisms, approachability. It's one thing, my wife and I noticed a lot is people, wherever it is, the grocery store, the store, the market, the airport, whatever. People always come up to me and ask me questions, like [00:35:00] where something is, or what's this thing, or what is it about me? Do I just look like I know things? Do I look approachable? What is it? And then, yeah, when we were on vacation, we noticed that People who had things to complain about, talk to her. So I don't know. I have no idea what it is, but maybe someday we'll figure it out, but certainly, yeah, figuring out those things, from our students and what they're thinking and, and to the lesson from your own, teacher, I guess our takeaway from that will be if you find yourself saying something that's mean spirited, maybe don't say it. Maybe keep that one to yourself and try something a little I know. And I hear stories all the time from, students or if I'm at, conferences and teachers, everybody will talk and say, Oh, my students said that this was said. And sometimes I gasp, but I think, Oh my goodness, like I would never say that. And of course, you don't always know the context and what else was [00:36:00] happening. But I just, I think back to some of the things that were said to me. Even, my second day in art class, I was so excited to take art in the ninth grade, and on the second day, we had to draw something, and my teacher said, Oh, you can try, but I don't think you're going to do very well in this class. I was like, it's the second day, and I'm not the greatest at art, but I tried really hard, but I couldn't imagine ever saying that, to a student. So anyway, there's lots of stories. We all have them, the good, the bad experiences and, the true stories and things. Yeah, Yeah, just say nice things. Rochelle, you do a lot of writing, blogging, podcasting, where can listeners find your other work and check it out? I am very consistent with, my, all my handles and things. Very easy to find. I have Instagram, Twitter, or X. It's R D E N E 9 1 5, which would be my first initial, my middle name, and my birth [00:37:00] date, because that was created around the time of AOL. So people were putting their birth dates at the end. I have a blog, which is, you just add the www and the com after R D N E 9 1 5. And, Let's see what else. I have a podcast which is The Thriving EDU, so you can find that. I'm on LinkedIn and books and everything are available on Amazon. I have everything linked on my blog site as well, if anybody wants to check those out. So I try to keep all the spaces consistent and easy to remember and, Excellent. Yeah. Listeners, check that out. You can learn about this book, True Story, Rochelle's other books, her podcasts, her blogs and things. You can go to her website. We'll link that below, um, and social media handles so you can find it all there. And, uh, please do also subscribe to the Authority for more author interviews like this one. We've got more great stuff coming up every week. And visit bpodcast. network to learn about all of our other shows. Rochelle, thanks so much for being here. Yeah, thank you. It was great [00:38:00] to be a guest and to talk with you and to reminisce about some of my days as a student and to also think about what I'm going to do in the upcoming days as a teacher. Yes, and that years down the road when your students are on a podcast romancing about their days, Right. we'll make sure they have great things to Yes. Only the best. Hopefully. All right. Thank you. Thank you.