Latest / A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast / Talks to Luke Molloy & Mark Rawlins about their choice of The Talons of Weng-Chiang (1/6)

Transcript

Talks to Luke Molloy & Mark Rawlins about their choice of The Talons of Weng-Chiang (1/6) · A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast

0:33
I'm so drunk. Hello and welcome to to watch a
0:42
hamster with a blunt. Penknife lost on Gallifrey, one
0:46
of your host. Mr. Joe Falls from to watch who
0:51
we have mr. Marc Ruel is a hello.
0:53
Hello. And from Lost on Gallifrey, we
0:55
have the handsome charismatic intelligent and for some reason.
0:59
Moffat lover mr. Luke Malloy hello?
1:03
Hello breath already. Are you guys doing?
1:08
I'm good. There's nothing wrong with While
1:10
he's the best Doctor, Who right? There's ever been, let's not go
1:13
there. Alright let's not go.
1:14
That Olga say is this is that Asylum of the Daleks poster and
1:17
ol, okay. I'm going to stop, we can't
1:19
drink let sleeping dogs. Like so.
1:23
Hello boys. So we are merging together.
1:25
Three podcasts in a fabulous, free some experience.
1:29
How you feeling about that horny?
1:39
Okay, so today we're talking about the talons of Wayne chai
1:43
Aang a not at all, contentious six-part story.
1:47
From 70s Doctor, Who long considered to sometime, probably
1:52
the best Doctor, Who story ever until it did the rounds in
1:56
Doctor Who Magazine with the new hippie time?
1:59
Team that gave him now is considered the most offensive
2:05
piece of art to come out of BBC. You're fools gentlemen I'm is
2:14
one of the best, isn't it? I mean I'll go straight early
2:16
on. That is when I watched all of
2:19
classic doctor here is one of the best stories that there is
2:23
production wise right? And wise everything it's so
2:26
enjoyable. If what lets you do, you want my
2:30
thoughts on the contentious side of it?
2:32
Straight off the hook, just cover it now before you can go
2:34
in, that's probably not only does, it does come up now,
2:37
doesn't it? If you took about tongues
2:38
wagging trying, You have to talk about the, I've literally got
2:41
the trip box up and it says contains racial Terror,
2:44
stereotypes, and language, that may cause offence and violence.
2:47
I'm sorry. It's not, you can't deny it like
3:00
that Warden is racist. There are bits of it that are
3:03
racist. That's our TV was made at the
3:06
time, it doesn't sour my enjoyment of it.
3:09
If it was made. Now if Lee Han Lis and Chang
3:14
turned up in the power of the doctor played, played this way
3:19
that you're inviting it with Chinese makeup, right?
3:22
It will be offensive, but you sort of have to take into
3:27
consideration that it was made in. 1976, it's the context,
3:31
isn't it? You have to put it in context.
3:33
What and I think, if you are going to tart alon's with this
3:37
brush, you have to tell Marco. Oh polo with this brush.
3:40
You have the tar Tomb of the Cybermen with this brush.
3:43
Yeah, there's a lot of classic Doctor Who that is problematic.
3:47
William Hartnell was openly racist person if you are willing
3:52
to sit there and watch William Hartnell playing the doctor and
3:56
yet you're not willing to watch talents Wing Chun.
3:58
I think there are some double standards there.
4:00
Yeah definitely I mean look at it say this one's worse than
4:05
that one. But I mean like evil of the
4:07
Daleks What's what's he called inaudible?
4:11
Yeah, it doesn't get a word and then gets his lovely chest out.
4:15
Always, gorgeous, pointlessly murdered at the end that are
4:18
horrible. See for, you know what, right?
4:20
When we watch that the BFI and Carol got naked, you know, comes
4:24
out and goes Collective sigh. Amongst everyone in the BFI?
4:28
Everyone was getting very aroused watching that you deny
4:33
that don't you? Yeah, no, you are right though,
4:35
there's so much Classics are two, that is problematic for
4:38
talent. Seems to get the, get the, the
4:41
spotlight on it as well. I mean really pointing at the
4:44
Chinese and saying they are the villains.
4:46
That's, I think that's the problem, but yeah, because it's
4:48
later on, like the 60s like the Crusades and studies because
4:51
it's 60s black and white. It seems like an older time a
4:55
bit further back when it was made and the 70s are a bit near
4:59
it. It's a surprise that even was
5:01
not a surprise, it was the 70s but it's more.
5:04
It's more of a modern story compared to those.
5:06
It seems more all of classic who is kind of Like they should Now
5:10
isn't it? We should be.
5:11
Yeah, yeah. It's I think what body of work
5:14
together? It's not really the 60s and 70s
5:16
in the 80s is all just classic home now, but it's also under
5:19
the spotlight because it's a big story from the big Golden Era.
5:22
So it gets so people know about it, people here at the top of
5:26
the polls and stuff like the Crusade is is bad but it's
5:31
obviously missing. I mean, I don't really have
5:33
seeing I think I've seen it once.
5:34
I don't really know what happens in the creature.
5:36
The Crusade is bad. I think I know I mean it It's
5:39
bad. It's racial.
5:40
Oh my God I think that's another story but you've got a man that
5:44
you got burned. Okay.
5:44
Blacked out playing. That's more obvious I think in
5:47
yeah yeah maybe I guess the past because he's not the villain
5:50
he's portrayed quite sensitively.
5:53
I think he gets the past because people don't really know or care
5:57
about I mean that in like the best possible way like black and
6:01
white who is still people who watch classic Doctor, Who still
6:07
sometimes, don't watch. Black-and-white Sox hits.
6:09
Least sort of covered, isn't it? And then when you get to the
6:12
missing stuff it's even less covered so stuff.
6:15
Like evil of the Daleks in the Crusades, the racial problems in
6:18
that, I'm holding this story was taken from, like, Foo Manchu and
6:23
those kind of stories. Yeah, so there they've got their
6:27
own but it's that same sort of right?
6:30
You know, the cliche stereotypes.
6:39
Stealing from those things, and that was like the 50s.
6:42
And even then, like the foo Manchu stuff.
6:44
There were, you know, way back then.
6:46
People were saying, you know, this isn't exact one arrived.
6:49
Yeah. You shouldn't be doing this or
6:50
it was censored and Talons I think was wasn't shown in like
6:54
Canada parts of Canada and America because at the time when
6:58
it was sold, they said, you know, this isn't we're not
7:01
comfortable with showing this so it has it has that history of
7:05
We're having those issues, you know, the reaction stuff like
7:10
this from people that find it offensive.
7:12
I want to talk about very briefly because I was at a
7:15
convention recently, where a friend of ours, had a script, a
7:20
copy of times when you try acting out of an original copy
7:23
of it, I kind of knew it was now of the musicians or something
7:27
like that. Anyway, it was lovely in yellow,
7:29
the beautiful smell lovely. It smelled the 70s and it had
7:33
been there Tom Baker at one point as well.
7:34
So I was very Site to pick it up anyway and someone around that
7:37
table went and started poisoning.
7:39
It like very time for Eugene T is nothing but it's like
7:42
pointing at the script and guy and you know that's racism on
7:46
the page there. I'll never touch that.
7:48
I'll never do it. I just sat there thinking that's
7:51
fair enough but he I was being criticized for picking it up and
7:54
reading it and I think like fair enough if you don't want to
7:57
watch this because you find it offensive.
7:59
My ex washers with me who was Asian and ask me to turn it off
8:02
before the end of episode one, and I turned it up.
8:04
That's fine. But don't tell me, I can't watch
8:08
it. If I am willing to accept the
8:10
practices of the time, do not come down on people.
8:13
And I see this happening with like Gareth Roberts episodes.
8:16
Now, obviously, he's been canceled if you dare to enjoy a
8:19
Gareth Roberts episodes their tarred with the same brush and
8:22
it's just nonsense. Yeah, it's nonsense.
8:25
Hello, it wasn't. I mean I wasn't there but it
8:27
wasn't created to be something to go against.
8:31
The Chinese, was it was great to be a good episode or two.
8:35
He bought in doing so involuntary is offensive like
8:41
and the variant. That's everything in the 70s.
8:43
There's so all the comedy shows. Yeah.
8:45
Are you being served? Are you kidding me comfortable
8:51
with those kinds of things? Yeah, that's fair enough.
8:54
But you can't cancel the whole of the part of History jover
8:58
television, and how they made stuff.
8:59
You see, you ain't never progressed.
9:01
Like you can see the progression down if you recognize it and
9:05
say, okay. Wouldn't make that now, is that
9:07
Disney film? One of our dinosaurs is missing,
9:09
we've seen that that's really, that is exactly, exactly.
9:13
I mean, the 70s probably made around the same time.
9:16
Exactly. The same thing you've got Peter,
9:18
is it be used enough if he's a, so, he's dressed up as a Chinese
9:23
guy. Exactly the same as those in
9:26
Talons and the whole story and he's all theirs.
9:41
And it was intentionally. Did that like you say, it was
9:46
the norm in television at that time and you recognize that and
9:50
then you look at TV now and you say great we've made so much
9:53
progress now in TV. Yeah.
9:57
In that context but you I don't think you can be like a we can't
10:00
watch any of that now and got cancel it.
10:02
We cut. That's all stays in the archive.
10:04
You can't we just never Like you just never Progressive, you can
10:07
also treat you and I did was Battlefield.
10:09
And look how far representation of come on by their new ad show.
10:12
Yo gets a big the Airfield Angela Bruce in there, you know
10:14
like classic who made massive strides.
10:17
By the time we got to the end of the 80s, Kai very briefly put
10:20
something on the table because it's saying that Luke said
10:22
before we started recording and I wanted very, very quickly to
10:26
say John Bennett gives a remarkable performance in this
10:30
story. Yeah, there's something in his
10:34
characterization. In that.
10:36
Yeah he's playing up the sort of Chinese stereotypes when he's on
10:39
the stage and he's saying stuff like first click but he simple
10:42
and all stuff like this and it's actually written a kid.
10:44
I saw that script is written like that.
10:46
I think rubber hose is deliberately playing up those
10:48
sort of Chinese stereotypes because he's doing that
10:51
performance to an English audience.
10:53
Yeah. When he's away from that when
10:56
he's in the lair of the screw thank you very much.
11:01
When he's in the lair of Maggie's, got he's played a lot
11:04
more sensibly. He's got a lot more.
11:05
After him. I think there's some kind of
11:07
some deliberate playing on the cliche is going on here as well.
11:11
And it's a remarkable performance.
11:13
Honestly, think it's one of the best performances in classic
11:16
property a day, just so compelling to watch.
11:21
What I tell you, what, boys? Should we go and watch episode 1
11:23
now that we've covered all of the awkwardness adversities?
11:26
Yeah, it's quite good to get out of the way though because I can
11:29
now we can enjoy the thing. Then I feel like, I feel like
11:32
it's it is now an elephant in the room with Odds, when sharing
11:36
Whatever Whenever you talk about it.
11:38
Yeah. I mean, it's an interesting
11:40
thing to bring up because we are like having ingested
11:44
conversations from it and learning from it.
11:46
But also doctor here. You just want to stop and enjoy
11:49
it. Oh, you do.
11:51
But then also, this is just to point out, it's not just the
11:55
makeup. And there are a lot of
11:58
references in the script as well that aren't that you wouldn't
12:03
say now. Yeah I think there's like
12:05
Different, different things problems, right?
12:08
Obviously, you've got the yellow face and you've got the
12:11
references in the, in the script and you've just got the fact
12:13
that the Chinese are just evil this.
12:16
There's no like, any sort of blurred like they're just like,
12:19
I think that's way for the film. And she comes reason Chang
12:22
Yelps, because I think he is portrayed, not just as a
12:25
villain. He's in, ultimately, he's duped,
12:27
isn't he thinks that Magnus crew is a God and he's doing God's
12:32
work. I think that's, I feel sorry for
12:34
me. Yeah, I You do feel sorry for
12:36
him because his fucking legs. I'm still here like um was just
12:53
gunned down, okay, I'll just reset it.
13:05
If it does, this join will just keep going.
13:08
Yeah, I'm still here and then we can just do it.
13:12
We covered all of that. Oh, here we go.
13:15
Mostly I couldn't possibly do this.
13:17
About looking at your moving face.
13:19
Come along now, she'll be coming.
13:23
Here we go. Round the mountain when she
13:24
comes, she'll be coming round the mountain, right?
13:28
Let's go, let's go. Let's go, sorry, I'm sorry.
13:31
You're on track, right? It's typical.
13:32
Now, I need to press whatever. People won't know what they want
13:37
and you saw it. No, no, you go.
13:39
Okay, looky County. Are we going on?
13:43
One will come. If yeah.
13:46
Oh yeah. Oh no, we won.
13:50
Yeah. Five four, three, two, one.
13:56
The Emerald City be bum. Bitty bitty bum you watching on
14:00
Blu-ray? No we're watching on brick box
14:02
with the skip intro option. Don't skip the intro.
14:05
Now I never words. I never would.
14:07
Yeah. Do you think the beginning of
14:08
this article is just like going down?
14:09
Someone's gastric track? Ha ha, ha, no.
14:15
No. Well if you said yes okay let's
14:23
talk about Robert Holmes. Straight off the bat.
14:28
Yeah. I mean well I mean I don't like
14:37
absolutely love it. You know like well my God what
14:40
the fuck. I think he does some brilliant
14:45
stories but then I think he has some just average stories as
14:49
well to be honest, I date. Okay.
14:51
If you have to I mean what was his first one the croutons?
14:54
Yeah okay forget that. Rawls is a nice piece of Ryan is
14:57
spoiled by those egg boxes space, pirates.
14:59
Know I'm not big on spearheads, that's just like I know I know
15:06
don't know the space pirates by the time he gets to this time
15:14
where we can save this for another day.
15:20
I can Spice Market space brilliant.
15:23
That's not it. Yeah, good solid fuel tops.
15:28
Brilliant. Yeah.
15:29
So much better than spending time.
15:31
Always great. Anytime Warriors, such a Sunday
15:35
afternoon with the fire on watching.
15:38
I love it. A seasonal Evans like that.
15:39
General three fabulous in it. Well I was just going to say I
15:45
have a quote here from Robert Holmes himself.
15:48
Well, yes about this. We've dug him up and he's here
15:50
with me. Go ahead.
15:53
I think this must be My favorite Doctor Who the story was, of
15:56
course, a remake of The Phantom of the Opera plus a touch of the
15:59
Foo manchus and a few bits of my own, even that racist a touch of
16:03
the few magic. I'm not a fan of Sherlock
16:08
Holmes. Although I've read all the books
16:10
but I'm a fan of that fiction is Victoria and period.
16:13
I think that's what he sums up. So, well in this is that Victor,
16:17
that Victoria and cherry-picks it all.
16:20
Yeah, best stuff from all of that kind of reminds me of
16:23
Trevor. What's The Two Ronnies?
16:24
Phantom Roar three blow of old London Town.
16:26
No, that's before my five, forget our very young, the pair
16:30
of ya. It is brilliant though isn't it?
16:35
Like it really does bring out that victoriana.
16:38
So well, and I love all the stuff setting and theaters and
16:42
stuff like that. Yeah.
16:43
And because the BBC do that stuff.
16:45
So, well, it just works perfect option.
16:47
Value in terms of production, astonishing didn't clarify blow
16:53
pretty much season. 50s Budget on this story very much.
16:57
I'm there was a question about that on Twitter, so we'll cover
16:59
that at the end of the episode. All right.
17:01
Okay, okay. It's like, well, it's going to
17:02
say like surely each season of its own you finished that
17:05
budget. It doesn't go over to the next
17:07
year. I don't understand that.
17:09
Well, now don't be like, we've spent all the money that's very
17:11
relaxed. He was like, well, we'll just
17:12
spend a bit of money because I'm off.
17:13
Now, I'm off the target. So, yeah, he definitely spent
17:16
more than the hard because he was off.
17:18
Can we just have a quick moment? Please for Mark, who was talk
17:21
about the Terry Nations Army? Video about the locations?
17:24
Silence wench, I act. So this is yeah, this where the
17:26
Tardis is landing here. I didn't realize so everyone
17:29
needs to watch that. Terry Nation Army video on the
17:31
locations of talents because I didn't realize until I watched
17:34
that, that they this opening scene, they filmed on location.
17:38
And then there was a problem with it and they had to remount
17:39
it in the studio. So there's this, they were
17:42
talking about this sort of lost footage of this scene on
17:45
location and where it was filmed along that along that sort of
17:49
wapping stairs down in London, in some amazing video.
17:53
And they work out though, Those videos are great.
17:55
Anyway, yeah, work out where the originals scene was shot.
17:59
And, you know, we'll see a lot of the stuff as the warehouses
18:02
and stuff from their of like being demolished and things.
18:04
And what you can see of it now and stuff, like I love all that
18:07
kind of stuff, but, yeah, I didn't realize until I watched
18:09
that this was done on film originally on location.
18:13
This whole. It's the footage still.
18:15
Is it exists anywhere? No, I don't think if it did,
18:18
they wouldn't have to spend, you know, 500 years investigating
18:21
the exact. Yeah.
18:22
Yeah. Currently people don't see this
18:25
bit where the doctor and leader walking away from Silence is the
18:27
only bit that's left of that. How late did the fine?
18:31
Because that Terror of the zygons they found like a scene
18:35
from that. Did me.
18:36
Yeah, the TARDIS landing. But yeah.
18:38
S in, whoever the editor was it was a little bit more of a talk
18:42
to Sarah and Harry. And we're all there for that.
18:44
It's great. Having extra little glimpses.
18:46
It really is a new classic talk about fucking stereotypes and
18:51
racism. What about Casey or nor mr.
18:53
Jiggle. God, no one gives a shit about
18:58
the Irish. Yeah, where's my Mr?
19:10
Bloody do. All right, but get chalky.
19:12
That do. Is that it's the only scary than
19:15
Chucky. So, Derek D, Troy's, honestly,
19:18
feels my nightmares. It's horrible.
19:21
I used to really not like it's a kid.
19:24
Yeah, he's really sick. I did not eat.
19:26
He's the only other scariest roller he's done is when he's in
19:29
The X-Files. Oh.
19:31
And he plays like to see it was an episode called bad law in
19:35
series 8. And he basically a new forgot
19:38
this but it's true genuine. He's so small.
19:41
We can crawl up, people's bottoms and energy coming.
19:44
Yeah. Yeah.
19:45
Yeah. That's how strong it is.
20:10
Yeah. It's really and I mean the
20:12
outfit they've got new outfits on and you need a Tom Baker's
20:16
outfit so good anyway. And then they give him this.
20:20
Well then looks for features that they will want him to wear
20:23
the scarf as Until make himself that no let's just have a
20:27
completely original costume for this one.
20:29
Yeah, maybe move. I think an even better is Lee
20:32
this costume which sort of would would have liked it to carry on
20:37
in life and being honest, it's a great costume.
20:40
You remember wouldn't? Oh no sorry, you're both really
20:43
young. So you won't forget that the
20:44
when the VHS first came out ideas and it came out on edited
20:48
with no Cliffhangers or anything and they took out some of the
20:51
more worrying aspects, not the racism interesting enough.
20:54
But of this sequence here, they took out all the bits of them
20:57
brandishing, their numchucks, and things like that.
20:59
Like, that's genuinely going to terrify children half of this
21:02
stuff is in here. Now, remember, and the knives
21:04
you didn't see the knives either?
21:06
Yeah, it's strange how. That's okay.
21:08
Now and leader go around killing people.
21:10
That's fine. It's just, I've got a question
21:15
about the ROI like so. He was going up, people's
21:20
assholes. Yes.
21:21
Right doing what? Oh, Well the first scene is a
21:27
man going through customs, right?
21:28
It's a big fat man who spills across two seats on the plane
21:31
that like I do and then he goes to the toilet when it gets the
21:35
other side and D price. Basically hijacked it up his
21:37
asshole to get from one country to another.
21:41
Do you want to play paper plane ticket?
21:42
It's very strange. It's like that was when David
21:48
Duchovny chips out the series and Robert Patrick was in and
21:51
suddenly the acting was really good.
21:53
Yeah. I've not seen any X Files, so I
21:57
know. Sorry.
21:58
You think? I'm afraid.
21:59
This face is on YouTube, Thrones, right?
22:02
Don't like it, Fred. I'll tell you.
22:04
Now, I'm going to drag you through the streets, like Cersei
22:06
go and shave shave. All right, okay, here we go.
22:10
We've got decent showing on the stage here.
22:12
See I love all the stuff on the stage like I would like magic
22:17
shows, I like being the theater and watch Derren Brown in July.
22:22
That sort of stuff is just My street so to see it on dr.
22:25
Hazy, but have you ever read any of Darren browse books?
22:31
No. But that sounds like it's going
22:32
straight on the Christmas list. He's a psychology expert.
22:35
Okay. And he wrote a he wrote a book
22:37
called happy. It's a massive time which goes
22:40
into stoicism and the sort of psychological condition of being
22:45
happy over time. It's absolutely brilliant.
22:47
Check it out, nothing. Yeah, I will, he is
22:49
unbelievable. I love everything he does.
22:53
Okey-dokey so mr. Sin is currently posing.
22:56
As you know, a mannequin we've all of his help please murder.
23:02
You know and the here's the lady being levitated train mobile.
23:08
Yeah, there are wires. I think I'm involved in this
23:11
trick. I couldn't, because I think you
23:12
meant. You want to watch either some of
23:14
the chicks are real. I think not for real.
23:17
Yeah, no. Louise.
23:17
Jameson said, he the guy from the magic circle came in and
23:21
said, how do you know Actually did these on stage for real.
23:24
So there's no like to Dietrich official Secrets act, how they
23:29
do it. So he has actually doing these
23:32
for really, where did they say this theater was because a lot
23:34
of this is in studio. This is our, this is our
23:37
location. Yeah, I can't remember which one
23:40
it is, but Miss. This is so creepy.
23:44
He's really good because I went on the costuming for this as
23:48
well, which is so rich Vivid, the colors on the screen.
23:52
Yeah, that's the word. There is so rich.
23:56
Thank you. And I do this for a living.
23:58
She is problem though. She is.
24:02
Well, that's gotta be wise. Surely these extraordinary
24:06
powers to levitate. There's gonna be okay.
24:12
For Luke. Yeah look I wouldn't know but
24:18
thank God we got a heterosexual near for one so I can ask a
24:20
question. Look at that.
24:23
He saw that the blood coming down his on what they like to
24:26
put a blood in his Cliffside because you are watching robots
24:28
to death. The other week.
24:29
There was a thing with a robot arm of all blood and Gunk all
24:32
over it. Yeah and this I didn't realize,
24:34
is this isn't Studio? This is on location.
24:37
It's a museum or something. That's a re-creation of a
24:41
Victorian police. Station.
24:42
So that out on location here, I didn't realize watching the
24:45
making of because I was saying what they that the scripts
24:47
weren't ready. And Robert Holmes said, no, I
24:50
don't have time to write these scripts.
24:52
Here you go. Said look, just give us enough
24:53
so we can do a location work for the first four episodes.
24:56
And then you go away and write it all and have fun with it, so
25:00
that any would probably phoning up every day going.
25:02
Can you find a mortuary? Yes.
25:03
Right, I'll write in good, so I didn't realize until we see it
25:07
that's an actual location as well.
25:09
You just assumed that this was all Studio, but So some kind of
25:13
Museum Place guys. I think can't believe we've got
25:16
this far without mentioning, Tom Baker and Louise Jameson has
25:19
Doctrine Lila, any thoughts? Well, I wasn't always a big fan.
25:24
Yeah, they're not my favorite pairing.
25:27
I actually prefer such a such a fan Wang keeping to save.
25:31
I do prefer the more Bigfoot. It's because he actually likes
25:34
her on big Phyllis. Yeah, but I gotta tell you what
25:37
the stories are not. Yeah, the big finish.
25:39
Well, no, they're not for us. Well, written.
25:42
Bondic bricks, I think season 15 though is my easy mummys
25:47
favorite Tom Baker service and and I think a big part of that
25:51
is the fact that somebody who can't look you in the eye.
25:53
I think these three when she comes in a really strong, you
25:57
know, your face of evil robots death in this and that's why I
26:00
like, but you just need to reverse after this doesn't she
26:03
reverts back to like preface of evil and and Tom Baker, just
26:07
gonna kind of a lot of people say.
26:09
That's Bob Baker and Dave mine, a writer, an invisible enemy,
26:12
The world. And in both those scripts, she's
26:14
described as stupid by one of the other characters, know what
26:19
I think Terrance dicks in horror film role.
26:21
Chris mowcher who's her Creator in image of the fender?
26:24
And then Robert Holmes in the summer because they all right.
26:26
Her really well in that season. So it's kind of up its up and
26:29
downs and it. Yeah.
26:30
Oh my God, I can't stand the muddler.
26:39
I don't know why Everyone likes. She's Called the ghoul looks so
26:45
great. The way it's film.
26:45
This could be from any story and film from, so it doesn't look
26:50
like it's something from dr. Hey, so we will talk about big
26:53
finish later Jago and Lightfoot specifically.
26:56
Yeah. But they bring her back.
26:58
Don't they in like series, though?
27:00
They don't touch me. Right, right.
27:14
Well visible do spend an hour going, it's a flow chart.
27:17
Oh, my God. I'm sure she said it before.
27:28
They said there's an episode round.
27:30
Eight of thing called Jago, like fun part C and part C is a
27:33
mudlark and I think it's heavily implied.
27:36
It's her. Yeah.
27:44
I mean literally everything from Tulsa which actors come back and
27:47
some 40, and River Song is been part of the in her set.
27:52
She's in the pre in a prequel. She's at the theater before
27:55
laying around. I really want that set.
27:58
Is it the one where she goes? No, she's in the web of fear.
28:02
Yeah, she goes in front of. Yeah, it's sad.
28:09
It's a bit. She just wanders around the mini
28:10
scope and kind of little monsters.
28:12
Be an extra. You're right though.
28:13
Still like all the elements. It's like Trevor Baxter's
28:17
Professor lights but turned up in the eighth doctor book.
28:20
The Body Snatchers. It was one of the first items
28:22
doctor books with the zygons. Yeah that was pretty good.
28:25
Yeah it was all right. Yeah there's a great twist where
28:29
the woman Emmeline turns out to be as I got older sorry anyone
28:32
who's going to read that twist 2002 the book, well speaking of
28:36
what's going on around town doing triang.
28:39
So there's a book called a history I don't know if
28:42
anyone's, can we take a bit of a way just to see the largest in
28:46
the entire history of a timeline of, you know, the Big Bang right
28:53
through to wear em. No way.
28:54
I've always thought this is impossible to do, I mean, it's
28:58
gone. This is the second vote Third
29:00
Edition. The fourth edition is for three
29:02
volumes now. But it's yet its history, its
29:06
puts all the Doctor Who stories in order of History.
29:07
So I've Got Talent. Swing triang in, where are we
29:11
1880? Eight.
29:12
So you can always going to look see what else is happening.
29:15
In the Doctor Who world around this time?
29:17
Interests are come on Mama. Well, so all sorry. 1889 is
29:22
talents when triang. So, also in 1889 that's where
29:27
Sarah Jane in Lost in time, all that was backstage.
29:30
Remember that wasn't? Yeah, that's going on to kids
29:33
were being burned alive when they ever in November 1888,
29:38
Madame, vastra and Jenny are no catch exact.
29:42
The Ripper apparently that again.
29:43
Oh yeah. But also in November 1888 the
29:49
valley yard has control of the dark Matrix lands in Whitechapel
29:55
1888 calls himself, the Ripper and kills prostitutes.
30:00
Then the several tricks and Matrix but then the Seventh
30:02
Doctor and Ace arrived and sort it all out and so critical, we
30:06
link the two together. Does vastra.
30:09
Kill the valley odd. Yes!
30:10
Vast to eat the valley on. Frost before I roll over this
30:14
shit, I'm telling you. All right, so and then before
30:17
that, in September, the Eleventh Doctor, Amy, and Rory,
30:20
apparently, land and help capture Jack the Ripper, which
30:25
turns out to be an alien Reptile from, what's that?
30:29
Well, the comic must be one of the animal.
30:31
So, yeah. He covers comments.
30:33
Adios, that is insane comes next.
30:37
So, after this, well, 1889 1890 Benson.
30:40
The doctor is taking place Fabio and Jago Lightfoot starts in
30:46
1892, apparently. So it's all that they go and
30:49
like that's a pretty years later.
30:51
Yeah. Oh, that's right.
30:52
Because when they meet in the pub because they say this, but a
30:55
little bit of time. See ya?
30:57
The grill Affair! Oh, and also in 1888, the eighth
31:00
doctor is wandering around with amnesia.
31:04
So that's all going on. Could be applied to Eddie year.
31:08
She laughs about. Those are fabulous books.
31:09
Those ones are listening. Yeah.
31:12
Yeah, so it's all happening so well, I am here where Joe goes
31:16
up into so I'm just bringing us back to tell us waiting time
31:18
just for a second, he touches the dummy and it comes to life
31:22
for a second and they always open.
31:24
Yeah. Yeah who even imagine I mean I
31:27
would shit my pants. I'm dead.
31:30
Oh God, because yes it was blood.
31:40
I'm quite watching it down. That's the issue with the cover.
31:44
Good episodes that hamster. It's very hard.
31:47
Not to just sit here. Watch them while we talked all
31:50
over rings of akhaten. You telling me that's not a good
31:51
episode. Nice.
31:53
I was, I had loads to say, I was trying to support it.
31:56
This doesn't even support. What and Luke.
31:59
We've got another chance to sing at this one, as well, haven't
32:01
we? I don't know.
32:03
Yeah, anyway, so so Christopher Benjamin, Yes, marvelous.
32:12
And which ones you prefer Jaguar.
32:14
Like thought I love. Am I so different?
32:19
Yeah, but which one do you prefer?
32:20
I don't prefer Ivar. Probably Jago is more funding.
32:39
I think that's it. Jago just said, you sit on
32:41
front, but you you wouldn't be fun without like foot.
32:44
So it's the contrast, isn't it? Is that culture Clash?
32:48
Yeah, it's super a. They don't spend that much time
32:50
together in this. No.
32:51
Not at all. Not at all.
32:53
Absolutely establishes characters.
32:57
And then they're brought together to contrast against
33:00
each other. It's super bright.
33:02
Yeah. Brilliant.
33:04
Sinister Chinese man. Here down the funky Street will
33:07
see how to do. I sometimes think being
33:10
chrysolite Jake Owen like for it.
33:12
He's these Jago obviously Mark and I like Little Dipper.
33:20
Well, I'm French and Saunders. Could I just say about Baxter?
33:27
Yes, I did. Once do an interview with from a
33:29
baxter for Doc oh ho reviews website.
33:32
I am not going home. They cannot I know.
33:35
Yeah. Yeah.
33:36
You've been using my big fish recommendation.
33:39
It's strange that the yeah used to read them without knowing it
33:42
was you I'll pass always meant about Destiny but he was the
33:47
cutest man I've ever seen. To say, he didn't take phone
33:51
calls, you have to leave her an Arts phone message with your
33:54
telephone number and I rang you back.
33:57
Oh he was so, any was so lovely and he had pin-sharp
34:00
Recollections of this story and just fantastic stories about
34:03
treading the boards of the theaters all around England.
34:07
Yeah. I've only ever heard wonderful
34:10
things about it and if you listen to any of the
34:11
behind-the-scenes and the big finish stuff, he is razor sharp
34:15
and it is love of theater, stories, really comes out on
34:19
that. That yeah just gorgeous and what
34:22
a character. He plays a vicar in an episode
34:24
of George and Mildred. That's the only other thing I've
34:26
seen him in. I can't pound shopping money.
34:50
And clearing out Aloft and their find, what Antiques and stuff.
34:52
And the guy goes, he gets the bars and he flicks it and he
34:55
goes, if it goes Ming, it's Ming.
34:58
If it goes Tang, its Tang. This one goes Woolworths.
35:07
I love it. I've not seen him in anything
35:09
else apart from that. Can you think of anything colder
35:12
than this line in a minute when the ax in beds next to Tom
35:14
Baker's head? And he goes, are you trying to
35:16
get my attention? It's So doctor is that you know
35:22
what's fabulous about this is I do think it's treat seriously
35:25
but it's got comic lines. Yes!
35:27
Why it's that? Perfect balance!
35:29
All the best Doctor Who's of it? Do you?
35:32
Okay, what is a big question for you both?
35:34
And do you think one of doctor whose strings?
35:36
Because I think a lot of Science Fiction can be incredibly
35:39
po-faced. You ever seen an episode of
35:40
Blake's 7. You think, why don't you high
35:42
ranks? Is it sense of humor 100% and
35:46
it's one of those things that when you're grown up or when I
35:49
was A like FEMA, teenage years and you just want doctors to be
35:53
serious. You want it to be dark and
35:55
everything and then you reach a point when you realize what
35:58
makes Doctor Who so good? I think it is when you go and
36:00
watch or the po-faced Sci-Fi, I can't stand Blake server.
36:05
I'm so I'd like all loads of Doctor Who fans seems to go
36:09
together or you like talk to you like, like seven.
36:12
Thanks, seven is so straight. So, boring.
36:15
What you betrayed us. Have you betrayed me I just,
36:21
I've tried so many episodes of it as well.
36:23
Try to, in order out of all, the put a couple, I could recommend
36:26
that our actual comedies. Although I think they might have
36:28
supposed to be serious. I like that six episodes of
36:31
length 7 a bit more. Yeah.
36:33
But that's a good intonation set up really.
36:35
Well, you're my light going on. Terry Nation all the time.
36:38
Yeah, the Kimura Doctor Who is what makes it because like Star
36:41
Trek but that conversation I don't like Star Trek's humor, or
36:46
those kind of shows. It's not funny.
36:50
It don't work like you know he's like oh dater You Can Dance.
36:54
Is that what humans did in the 20th century?
36:56
It's such a it's such a fine line, isn't it?
36:59
You don't, you don't want it to be silly.
37:02
Yeah, but now I think that you know, now even though I think
37:05
some of the Doctor Who's that are classic dogs whose that
37:08
people really enjoy that are dogs.
37:09
Who fans are the Darth ones? We yeah have fun with it.
37:14
You can just be really hypocritical in this situation
37:16
though because there's some silly things in Doctor Who
37:18
they're just Yes. And there's some stuffy like get
37:21
up. Just go away.
37:23
Are you talking about a giant fluffy Rap by any chance?
37:25
I never had a, I've never had an issue with like effects really
37:30
on dr. Hey, so this really didn't
37:31
bother me at the time and I don't think it's it's incredibly
37:36
bad until you see it like they later on.
37:39
Yeah. Luffy.
37:40
But yeah, they are stairs. All right.
37:45
Most part they're using a real rat.
37:47
Yeah, in a minute. Sure I say it.
37:49
Yeah. I think we're the first watched
37:51
it. I watched are in a really sunny
37:53
day on a small TV so I couldn't even see what it was.
37:56
It's so dark down there and see it.
37:59
It could see, it could have been much worse or thing they could
38:02
really like being overly and you would have seen that all thing
38:05
but now they, I think they do quite well.
38:07
Okay, well chaps, we have reached the end of episode 1.
38:10
I feel like we've come as the local already, got five episodes
38:14
to go, but fortunately, we've got help from Twitter and I
38:17
asked a couple of questions at the end of each.
38:19
Each episode of that cell? Yes.
38:22
Come let's start with Andy Parkinson.
38:25
That's at Caffrey. 71 is that fabulous, man?
38:30
He says, I really love this story, obvious issues aside who
38:34
said that someone had to put a caveat in for every tweet.
38:37
There is, there is like I said? Yeah, yeah, it's got everything,
38:42
a great villain, Lila is wonderful, Jago and light for
38:44
and the sets and locations look amazing.
38:47
Is this the best classic who has ever looked So far or ever.
38:53
Yes, this point at least. Yes.
38:57
And I can't really think of anything after this as we go
39:00
into the 80s. And now I think you can't yell
39:05
wouldn't give it an award for being set in the modern day,
39:08
because if because it's just already there, so for something,
39:11
that's an alien world or the past or something.
39:13
Yeah, definitely. The best that ever looks in
39:15
classes up to, in terms of resources, their location work,
39:19
the costumes. The props, I think it's that
39:21
location stuff. At nighttime, with the US using
39:26
those locations in London. I think that's what really makes
39:29
it. It's doesn't fuck.
39:30
Yeah, it literally is the fog. I'll say that about her for
39:33
pumping a bit of dry ice. And okay, yeah, the battlefield
39:36
one is doesn't really well different type of that's like
39:39
dry ice in a field in bright daylight.
39:41
That doesn't really add some dry ice in their mind though.
39:45
I okay, Jim Allen B. This is not really a question,
39:49
but something that popped into my head today.
39:51
This story but With Hartnell and Purvis.
39:54
I don't know why I imagine it in black and white as season three
39:58
classic bit like the massacre. Yeah.
40:02
But really fun in and they do comedy series Freedom, the gun
40:04
fires. Yeah.
40:05
But it would, you don't think he like I like thinking that you
40:12
can imagine like, Steven with Jago and Lightfoot Where ya
40:24
going on around him back in, Imagine heart, and on the stage
40:26
as well. With when the Chang's doing the
40:29
magic trick, ya facing up against Chang.
40:31
Yeah. Hot November.
40:36
It's hard to imagine what he's gonna say it, but you can
40:40
imagine it. You know, what you think about
40:46
their guide, that I okay. One more question.
40:52
We go, this is going to be contentious guys, or I is
40:55
troublemakers a stirrer. I'm telling you was spending so
40:59
much of the budget on this story.
41:01
Did it leave? Graham Williams massive in a
41:03
massive hole for season 15. Totally worth it.
41:08
Or was it a bit of a dick move? I told you to be contentious, I
41:15
am going to say it was totally worth it because I'll serve as
41:19
we've said many times now, it's one of the best toys in coffee,
41:22
that's so it looks amazing. And I think that even if you
41:26
don't really have the budget in classic Doctor Who the stories
41:28
are still good. So, the Sun make is, I think, is
41:32
a really good story, but it doesn't necessarily look that
41:35
good. So spending the budget doesn't.
41:39
It's that's not the thing that hampers season 15 for me,
41:42
although, it does for me a little bit.
41:44
I think I'm quite, I do get annoyed by the production value
41:47
sometimes. Time.
41:49
Is it the contrast though? We're all I can think of is over
41:55
cheap. What image of the fireball is it
41:59
the contrast from season 14? Where everything is pretty.
42:03
Yeah. Let's and then underworld like
42:06
that is a budget thing but as well, I think people forget
42:08
inflation went up massively where Williams joined.
42:11
So something TV was a lot more. Expect what happened here was I
42:14
think from the beginning of her twice, I right way through to 14
42:17
Carla tea. Losses came in.
42:19
The babies had a massive flood of money coming in and the
42:22
budget. They said fine.
42:23
Fine fine. Then Margaret Thatcher.
42:24
Came along inflation went up, everything cost too much and so
42:28
they're making everything on the cheap.
42:30
Yeah, but that doesn't make underworld a good script.
42:32
Now, I'm just trying to say it's not, it's not for every fucking
42:38
thing, they okay. It's not the question.
42:41
Then would you enjoy Talons Wang Chong Yang if they had to make
42:44
it all with blue screen? No.
42:48
Yeah, I don't think so. Not half as much.
42:51
Yeah. Milo no location, no fog, does
42:55
it, it does change it. Okay.
42:57
Thursday. Yeah, it's suddenly becomes
43:00
Doctor Who and let's just say everything is now Town, swing
43:05
trying to fool. Ya fool, I'll cut it there.
43:10
It's just going to be