Latest / Kitco MINING / Gold and Silver Miners Have More Room to Run | Don Durrett & John Feneck

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Gold and Silver Miners Have More Room to Run | Don Durrett & John Feneck · Kitco MINING

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_00: Kitco Mining on-site coverage of the Precious Metal Summit is presented by New Core Gold.
• 0:10
  SPEAKER_02: Hello and welcome to Kitco Mining with me, Paul Harris, here at the 2026 Precious Metal Summit in Beaver Creek, Colorado.
• 0:17
  SPEAKER_02: I've joined here by with a couple of the keynote speakers from the event.
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_02: We have John Fenneck of the Fennec Commodities Report, which he co-hosts a podcast with Don Durette, who's the author and the founder of Gold Stock Data.
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_02: Welcome, gentlemen.
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you, Paul.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_02: You both gave keynotes on the first day.
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_02: Don, you spoke about gold and silver, John, you spoke about defense medals.
• 0:39
  SPEAKER_02: Before we get into some more into specific things, there's what 1700 people here, lots of hangers on as well, uh outside.
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_02: What's the vibe here?
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_02: What's the energy here?
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_01: It's better than I've seen.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_01: Uh I've only been coming seven years here, but uh it's the best year.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's there's there's enthusiasm, but it's not like over exuberant.
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_02: Uh I know uh Don, you've got a lot of enthusiasm as as we were setting up, you were talking about 25 baggers being all over the place.
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_02: Uh it seems you're very excited, enthused about what you're seeing here.
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, Paul, welcome for having us on.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_03: Appreciate it.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, um, I value companies using um right now I'm using$7,000 gold and$200 silver.
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_03: So silver is a$64,000,$65.
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_03: So when I'm using$200, I've you know it's a big move.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_03: Um also gold.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_03: Skull's at$4,000,$400,000,$4,300, and I use$7,000 gold.
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_03: So that's why I'm finding you know 20, 25 baggers all over the place.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_03: It just seems like um stocks are not fairly valued right now.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_03: I think they're undervalued.
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_03: I think they're undervalued by 50%, some some values even under more.
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, if you look at like Agnical Eagle today, they're they were trading at$250, and now they're trading at$200.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_03: So they've dri so you can see, and I think they should be valued at$300, like 50% under undervalued.
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_03: And I see that kind of across the board.
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_03: So I think the stocks right now are unbelievably cheap, if you will, um, versus their potential, especially versus future potential.
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_03: Um, so I I'm pretty excited.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_03: Um now I haven't found a lot of stocks to buy because I own them all.
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_03: But I I and I don't really, I'm not a kind of person that likes to press my bets.
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_03: Um, but I I'm gonna let people know the stocks I liked.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_03: Um I probably I'm I'm thinking I'm probably gonna publish 15 names that people can go out there and look at that I found here.
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_03: And and I'm I'm actually gonna show them the upside that I see.
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_03: So I'm gonna show all these 25 baggers all over the place in my in my when I post on X.
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_03: Uh I'll post about at least 15 names and you'll see what I mean.
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, I was gonna make a joke with you, John, earlier this week.
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_02: There was a news release, uh news report, sorry, that uh Donald Trump made 1,000 uh stock trades in uh in July.
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_02: It must be a comparable amount as you do.
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_02: Um okay, um interesting about valuation.
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_02: Um we saw some mid-tier producers hit sort of 52-week highs this year.
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_02: Um a lot of the names sold off in March as the sort of gold price came down.
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_02: Uh so mid-tier producers hitting 52-week highs.
• 3:13
  SPEAKER_02: That's uh presumably is a meaningful thing, particularly given that uh some of the majors are still at 75 to 80 percent of their 52-week highs.
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_02: What is your view of this?
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_02: Is it the the mid-tiers playing catch up or something else afoot?
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_02: Go ahead, Don.
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_03: Well, we have seen the miners outperforming the metal uh starting in July and August.
• 3:33
  SPEAKER_03: And we and I think some of these mid-tier producers um I think their balance sheet cleaned up, they didn't have bad balance sheets, and I think the mid-tiers, in my opinion, is the best risk reward.
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_03: The majors you're not gonna get the big alpha.
• 3:49
  SPEAKER_03: The mid-tiers is where you're gonna get it.
• 3:51
  SPEAKER_03: And those those those stocks tend to be a little bit more um explosive, if you will.
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_03: And so we've had this correction, but we've had a little bit of um a bit of a rebound here, not much of one.
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_03: But yeah, it was surprising.
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_03: Um you know, we're still down well below the highs, gold and silver.
• 4:09
  SPEAKER_03: But my portfolio did a complete rebound.
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_03: I was kind of I was buying a lot of stocks, but we saw some stocks really perform well in July and August.
• 4:20
  SPEAKER_03: Um and right now, I mean, even though the gold prices have dropped down, my portfolio's hung in there really well.
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_03: I'm I'm really surprised that it hasn't sold out as it has.
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_03: Now, the some of the majors, Newmont, Berwick, Agnigo, for some reason, people don't want to own the majors, but some of the mid-tiers have hung in really well.
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, look at Montage, um, that's just one example.
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_03: It's has a six billion dollar market cap.
• 4:42
  SPEAKER_03: It's a mid-tier.
• 4:43
  SPEAKER_03: It is traded all the time high.
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_02: They're gonna pour their first gold next year.
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah.
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_03: So that's one example of people will pay down for some of these smaller companies.
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so presumably then if if the gold prices, the silver price, if they continue to strengthen these companies, people like Centera, Wesdo, Mineros, SSR, then continue to post 52-week highs and at all-time highs.
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_01: Well, um, I don't track most of the names you just mentioned, Paul.
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I'm more in the small, the microcap space.
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but uh as a value manager, I look at charts.
• 5:18
  SPEAKER_01: I encourage people to look at charts and look at the the thing that I get more than anything is John, I don't know when to sell, you know.
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_01: And Don and I have different philosophies.
• 5:28
  SPEAKER_01: He's more long-term, and I'm going to trade if I need to, you know, and we traded a lot this summer.
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_01: So um I'm gonna look at a chart like that, and I I I would use the phrase opportunity cost.
• 5:39
  SPEAKER_01: If I can buy something much cheaper that has deep value or value versus something that's run up a lot that has momentum, I'd rather do that.
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 5:49
  SPEAKER_02: I think that's an interesting point uh you make there, John, because um you've as you say, you've got a very different philosophy, investment philosophy to Don.
• 5:57
  SPEAKER_02: You know, you you'll trade out when you need to.
• 5:59
  SPEAKER_02: Don, I think you've during your presentation you said you're you're not selling until gold hits 7,000.
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_02: Um that's a very interesting dynamic to have on your podcast.
• 6:08
  SPEAKER_02: How how does that work?
• 6:09
  SPEAKER_01: It works great.
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_01: We make a great team.
• 6:11
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, uh we go ahead.
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, we basically have different outlooks, but we believe in the same outcome, if that makes sense.
• 6:19
  SPEAKER_01: Like we know that this is the time you want to be invested.
• 6:23
  SPEAKER_01: When you look at the 2011-12 rally, it's way different in terms of a backdrop.
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_01: It's way different in terms of cat free cash flow at the majors like Agnico, right?
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_01: These mud these companies are making hand over fist money.
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_01: They weren't doing that in 2011-2012.
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_01: The margins back then were pretty small.
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_01: Now the margins are massive.
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_01: And it's only a matter of time before Wall Street catches on to this, and I think it's gonna happen next year.
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 6:47
  SPEAKER_02: Um, a lot of silver names hit 52-week highs this week.
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_02: I know you both like silver stories.
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_02: Um, the silver companies are showing well.
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_02: Earlier this week I interviewed Florin Grummis, and he said uh silver is showing the mother of all cup and handles, uh, which for non-technical people that's that's very good.
• 7:03
  SPEAKER_02: Um what's your view on silver and the silver stocks?
• 7:07
  SPEAKER_01: Um I totally agree with Florian.
• 7:09
  SPEAKER_01: I just spoke with him yesterday.
• 7:11
  SPEAKER_01: Um silver held 54 to 55, it's now at 62-ish.
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_01: Um I think silver will hold the 50 level no matter what, absent of a black swan.
• 7:23
  SPEAKER_01: Um, that's very bullish technically, because of course that's the previous all-time high twice, right?
• 7:29
  SPEAKER_01: Um I think the silver alley really caught people by surprise, Q4 into Q1.
• 7:35
  SPEAKER_01: It went parabolic.
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, let's be honest.
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_01: Well, 120.
• 7:39
  SPEAKER_01: 121 was the the clipping the top there.
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_01: Um so at 62, you're literally almost half off the top.
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_01: That's that's hard to accept for most investors.
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_01: But if Don's talking 200 silver, Michael Oliver's talking 300 silver, these are very smart people that are talking much higher prices.
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_02: Florian was talking 250 to 500.
• 7:58
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 7:59
  SPEAKER_01: So at 62, look, if 50 hold again, that's when you buy physical.
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you're gonna get a great opportunity here as an investor.
• 8:06
  SPEAKER_01: Silver, physical silver is our largest holding.
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_02: Uh Don, let me sort of rephrase the question for you to talk more about specific, well, not specific stocks, but stocks in general, silver stocks.
• 8:16
  SPEAKER_03: Well, first of all, I want to say about John and I, we we approach investing a little bit differently, but the one thing that we both focus on uh intensely is macro.
• 8:25
  SPEAKER_03: So we have macro in common, and and so we there's really no dichotomy, really, on when we do the podcast, we usually open, we talk macro.
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_03: And is we are totally in alignment in macro.
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_03: There's no there's no dissension at all there.
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_03: And we rarely um I I rarely, and then we usually do macro.
• 8:43
  SPEAKER_03: We really don't talk about investment philosophy on the show.
• 8:45
  SPEAKER_03: We talk about macro and we interview ship cEOs, and then we ask the SEOs questions, and that's that's kind of the show itself.
• 8:53
  SPEAKER_03: I just wanted to put point that out.
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_03: And but John and I, I mean, we never argue about uh investment philosophy.
• 8:59
  SPEAKER_03: We respect each other's support approach, period.
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_03: Um so going back to silver, um I I want to kind of uh tag on to what he said about silver prices basically bottoming here 54.55, now we're at 62.
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_03: When silver went from 35 to 120, I wasn't surprised at all.
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_03: I expected it.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_03: And I expect I and when it happened, when it and we've been talking, I've been talking about this for years and years.
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_03: When I created my website in 2012, I was using$100 silver, and I could have used higher silver, but people thought it was absolutely crazy, and they thought I was nuts using$100 silver.
• 9:37
  SPEAKER_03: But I mean I expected.
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_03: And so when I when if we had a massive um support level at 35, and it we it took, if you go back and you look at the last 10 years, how the silver performance it took a long time to get through 30, a long time.
• 9:51
  SPEAKER_03: And then once it got through 30, the technical chart, we've only been above 30, we've only been above 30 for two short periods of time.
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_03: So there was no there was no resistance above 35.
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_03: There's a little bit of 35, but that was it.
• 10:03
  SPEAKER_03: So once it got above 35, I knew it was gonna go above 50, and then we didn't know where he was gonna stop.
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_03: But my point is that once it got above 50, I felt strongly that 50 would be the support level.
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_03: And it has, and I think 50 is the low.
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_03: And I think that what's gonna happen here is that we're going higher, a lot higher.
• 10:21
  SPEAKER_03: I don't think it and it's not a silver story, it's a gold story.
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_03: Gold, I don't see any path where gold doesn't trend higher the rest of the decade.
• 10:29
  SPEAKER_03: So if that's gonna be happened, silver's gonna follow it.
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and so I think that gold, uh again, gonna trend higher.
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_03: I think it's gonna get to 10,000 by the end of the decade.
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_03: And if that's the case, I like to use 2% as a as a minimum.
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_03: So you go to 10,000, the minimum is 200, use 8,000, you know, 10 minimum is 160.
• 10:49
  SPEAKER_03: I like to use 2% of gold as the minimum floor, and it's gonna probably go somewhere between 2 and 3%.
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_03: So from that standpoint, I'm extremely bullish.
• 10:59
  SPEAKER_03: If I think, if I think gold's going 7, 8, 9, you can imagine what I think silver is, you know, 2% or better.
• 11:05
  SPEAKER_03: And that you take those numbers, you apply them to silver miners, and most companies won't do it.
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_03: It's it's amazing.
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_03: I I have to tell these companies, they have one-on-ones with them, I have to tell them how valuable.
• 11:16
  SPEAKER_03: I think that silver, one ounce of silver production is worth one billion dollars.
• 11:21
  SPEAKER_03: Because all you have to do is just take$50 silver, right?
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_03: And one if you have$50 cost and$100 silver prices, you have$50 free cash flow times$10,$50 million, and give it$10 multiple, it's$500 million.
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_03: But if you go$100 and you go to$200 silver, and you have$100 or more free cash flow times$10,$1 billion.
• 11:41
  SPEAKER_03: And$100,000 ounces, the same thing with gold, is worth$5 billion.
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_03: And so you can value companies very simply like that.
• 11:49
  SPEAKER_03: And when I do that, I find everything is extremely cheap still.
• 11:53
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, thank you.
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_02: Now, um, before the Precious Metal Summit or during the Precious Metal Summit week, uh, a lot of companies put news out, and this year is no exception.
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_02: Well, this year is exceptional because there's been so much news.
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_02: Um, over the past year or so, companies have been able to raise a lot of money, which means they've been able to do a lot of work, and the results of that work are in, and a lot of companies have been publishing it this week.
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_02: We've seen a couple of MA transactions, we've seen a lot of uh resource um estimates or resource updates.
• 12:24
  SPEAKER_02: We've seen a couple of PEAs, preliminary economic assessments, we've seen a couple of PFS, and I think even a feasibility study.
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_02: What news has really struck out to you um struck you guys as important or noticeable or meaningful?
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_01: I'll uh go rapid fire.
• 12:39
  SPEAKER_01: Um so I think the best PEA I've seen so far was Honey Badgers, uh H B E I F in the States, T U F in Canada.
• 12:47
  SPEAKER_01: Chad was a speaker at my conference in Arizona last week.
• 12:51
  SPEAKER_01: Um phenomenal story.
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_01: Don turned me on to it.
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I mean, they they're probably gonna come on our podcast at some point.
• 12:57
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but a negative ASIC, I've never really seen that in a PEA before.
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_01: Um, Silver X is a holding of ours.
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_01: They came out with some really good news.
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_01: Um that's AGX PF in the States, AGX in Canada.
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_01: Have not talked to Jose about the results yet, but he was really overflowing in the comment section.
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and they're in Peru.
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_01: I like Peru a lot.
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_01: Um Peru, Chile, Colombia.
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_01: These are places that have had regime changes, and people need to understand that's when you put their put your chips in.
• 13:29
  SPEAKER_01: If you if you have a conservative leader who's pro-mining, this is the time you go for it.
• 13:33
  SPEAKER_01: And and there's a there's a closeology story there that presented at my conference as well called Rio Silver.
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_01: That one's R Y O O F in the States and R Y O in Canada.
• 13:43
  SPEAKER_01: They sold a lot of SilverX's land to them.
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_01: So that implies to me that they kept some of the good stuff, um, and they're right near them.
• 13:51
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and they would be able to share a mill with them.
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_01: They have a good relationship, right?
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_01: So, like that's a 24 cent U.S.
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_01: stock right now.
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_01: There's so much opportunity.
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_02: Don, what what news has really stood out to you this recently?
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_03: Uh I'll mention three.
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_03: Uh the the first one I was gonna mention was was the Honey Badger one.
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_03: Um, like it's okay.
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_03: But uh, but I can re reiterate, um, I've I've never seen a negative ASIC before.
• 14:15
  SPEAKER_03: I think people are not really recognizing there, they think they they're looking at some of the red flags of the Honey Badger project, and and people are very conservative.
• 14:27
  SPEAKER_03: They want everything to check the box, they want it to be, you know, easy, if you will.
• 14:31
  SPEAKER_03: And there are some some stress points, there are some risk risk areas in there, but overall, um, I like it a lot.
• 14:38
  SPEAKER_03: I just think um I'm I think that's a that's a stock that it's gonna trend.
• 14:43
  SPEAKER_03: I I just negative AC is is mind-boggling.
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_03: Um and and I also think that Silver X is um their news release.
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_03: I think both of these were actually timed for this event.
• 14:54
  SPEAKER_03: Um, that was a game changer for them.
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_03: Their their resource went to 250 250 million ounces.
• 14:59
  SPEAKER_03: That's and they're only mining one million.
• 15:01
  SPEAKER_03: It reminds me a lot of Aveno.
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_03: A Vino's mining one million and they have 350.
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_03: And Aveno is valued a lot more than Silver X.
• 15:09
  SPEAKER_03: And so it's it's a similar story.
• 15:12
  SPEAKER_03: Um then the one the other one that I will re mention is Vista Gold, and they um were acquired by Artemis Gold.
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_03: And what I what I wanted to point out here is I always say that for X for develop development stories, the risk is a lot higher than when you invest in a producer.
• 15:31
  SPEAKER_03: And the the and the main reason why is because in a developer, there are so many things that can impact your expectations, if you will.
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_03: So you buy it and you have these expectations of your return, and things can go south.
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_03: And I I just kind of I want to use that um that news release.
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_03: So they acquired Vista Gold for a 29% premium.
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and so Vista Gold was um, I think 8 million ounce gold project.
• 15:59
  SPEAKER_03: So an 8 million ounce gold project is probably gonna produce 300,000 ounces a year, kind of my guess.
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_03: Um, so it was a really good project, and I think Artemis Gold, you know, for them, I I'm an Artemis Gold shareholder, so I think fantastic, but this is just an example of you're you can own these really good development projects, but there's always this opportunity's always this chance that they can be acquired.
• 16:23
  SPEAKER_03: And so, and these and these are kind of you never know if it's gonna be a 20, a 20, this was 29, it could be 30, 30, it could be 40, it could even be 50.
• 16:31
  SPEAKER_03: And that's gonna happen.
• 16:33
  SPEAKER_03: And so here is one example of that.
• 16:35
  SPEAKER_01: Um, do you mind if I jumped in?
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_01: Go for it.
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_01: Uh uh you're you're saying something counter to what most investors think, which is you just implied that you didn't want to see like the takeout, right?
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_02: Like that's what a lot of investors let me jump in on your your retort because um my my follow-up to Don on this was um the the the this the the takeover price or or the the value of the deal valued um valued Vista at about forty to fifty dollars per ounce in the ground, which seemed very, very cheap, particularly in the gold ball market, particularly as everything seems to be going upwards.
• 17:11
  SPEAKER_02: And put to put that in context, when Agni Coeagle Mines bought Rupert resources um earlier this year, that that came out at about six hundred US dollars per ounce.
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_02: So um just on that metric with looking at nothing else, Artemis seems to have got a steal.
• 17:27
  SPEAKER_02: I agree.
• 17:28
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 17:29
  SPEAKER_01: We don't get excited by 20 to 30 percent premiums.
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_01: Don and I actually part of our show is asking the CEO directly, do you have at least 30% of the shares locked up in good hands?
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_01: Because we're trying to prevent a take under.
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_01: You know, this is something we really do look for.
• 17:45
  SPEAKER_01: Um like Triumph Gold was one I talked about in defense medals here as well, because they have a lot of tungsten and antimony on their gold project that people aren't aware of.
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_01: Um they have two million ounces of gold in Canada, but they have this rarer tungsten antimony amount of uh just I mean it it looks fantastic.
• 18:03
  SPEAKER_01: It's buried in a report.
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I have a limited social life, so I read a lot.
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_01: Uh and so it is done.
• 18:09
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not suggesting that of his social life.
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_01: But um but but Triumph, when you talk to John, he's like, Yeah, I own 10% of the stock.
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_01: This guy over here owns 10%.
• 18:19
  SPEAKER_01: This huge pension fund owns 10%.
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_01: And we start adding it up, and it's over 50% of their entire shares outstanding.
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_01: That's exciting because he's not selling cheap.
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I want to sort of bring our conversation to a conclusion.
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_02: Uh you're you're both investors.
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_02: A large part of what you do is educating and informing people, particularly retail investors.
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_02: So there's a lot going on in the space at the moment.
• 18:40
  SPEAKER_02: So if you were constructing a precious metals portfolio today, how would you allocate amongst you know physical gold, physical silver, royalty companies, ETFs, large producers, developers, explorers, etc.?
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_02: Who would like to go first on that?
• 18:55
  SPEAKER_01: I'll go first because I'll be very quick on this because I know Don has more to say on this.
• 18:59
  SPEAKER_01: Um silver is our biggest holding, over 11%.
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I know that's a lot.
• 19:05
  SPEAKER_01: Uh I don't care.
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_01: It's going to work.
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_01: Uh gold is an underweight, it's about a little under 1%.
• 19:12
  SPEAKER_01: Um, because I'm younger and I'm more aggressive, and I want to own gold stocks, not gold.
• 19:17
  SPEAKER_02: So you're talking about the physical exactly.
• 19:19
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 19:20
  SPEAKER_01: So that that's about 12% of our portfolio into metals.
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_01: Then you look at the ETFs, GDX, GDX, J, the three silver ETFs, that's about another 20%.
• 19:27
  SPEAKER_01: So right there is about a third of my portfolio.
• 19:29
  SPEAKER_01: That's what we call the hub.
• 19:30
  SPEAKER_01: Then the spokes that are built around that are names like I've given your listeners today, right?
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_01: They're gonna be two, three, four, five percent percent positions.
• 19:39
  SPEAKER_01: Sometimes we trade them, sometimes we hold them.
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_01: We typically hold one to three years.
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but you know, if the thesis changes, we will sell.
• 19:47
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, thank you, John.
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_02: Uh Don?
• 19:49
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, so I have a book that we can put it on the links below, um, how to invest in gold and silver.
• 19:53
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and so I actually write about this in my book.
• 19:56
  SPEAKER_03: And what I recommend is what I call a pyramid approach.
• 19:59
  SPEAKER_03: And so the pyramid is the bottom of the pyramid is is wider.
• 20:04
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and the reason why it's wider is that's where you allocate more.
• 20:07
  SPEAKER_03: So the allocations go shrink as you go up the pyramid.
• 20:11
  SPEAKER_03: So the base of the pyramid is for me is physical, and I think you should have five to ten percent on physical.
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_03: And then after after the the the physical, you could do either gold or silver.
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_03: Um, I like to have mutual funds or ETFs.
• 20:25
  SPEAKER_03: So I have seven ETFs.
• 20:27
  SPEAKER_03: There's four, oh there's only four silver miner ETFs, and there's lot quite a few gold miners.
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_03: So I have four all four of the silver miner ETFs and three gold miners, and then I have three mutual funds, so basically ten funds.
• 20:39
  SPEAKER_03: And so that creates that strong foundation at the bottom.
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_03: And then on top of that, I put majors.
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_03: And then on top of the majors, I put mid-tiers and then small producers.
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_03: But the mid-tiers, that whole group right there, I have about 50%.
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_03: I I prefer to have producers for me and my developers I've expect to turn into producers, but I expect to make you know 80% at least of my returns through the producers.
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and the the ETFs and the majors are also producers, but these are individuals.
• 21:13
  SPEAKER_03: So I have 85 producers and about 65 developers.
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_03: That's about 150 and then 10.
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_03: And then I have about 18 exploration stocks.
• 21:23
  SPEAKER_03: My exploration stocks towards the top.
• 21:26
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and the small producers, once you go as you go up the pyramid, the risk goes up.
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_03: So once you get above, you're at majors and you're at mid-tiers.
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_03: Once you get above that, you're you're basically in the small producers, which is high risk, and then you get into the developers.
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_03: The developers is really about three different bucket points.
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_03: It's the ones that are near-term producers, like they're gonna be they're in construction, being producer with a year.
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_03: Then you have in construction within like three to four years, and then you have everything else.
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_03: So there's like three different buckets.
• 21:58
  SPEAKER_03: And and so you you don't want to you want to have more allocation in the near-term producers versus the the ones that are way out there.
• 22:05
  SPEAKER_03: Then the very top on top of that is your explorers.
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_03: And I right now in my portfolio, I have 18 um explorers, but most of them are optionality placed, and I have don't have I haven't allocated very much.
• 22:17
  SPEAKER_03: My total portfolio is only 2% exploration.
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_03: So I'm very heavily so that's how I base it, that's how I weight it all.
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you.
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_02: That's a sort of good risk reward sort of uh explanation and strategy focus.
• 22:30
  SPEAKER_02: Um, John and Don, it's been fascinating.
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_02: We really appreciate you sort of taking some time out.
• 22:34
  SPEAKER_02: It's a very, very busy event.
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_02: I know, I know there's a lot of demand for your time.
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_02: John Fenneck, Don Durette, thank you for joining me today.
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, John and I, we really appreciate you having us on.
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_02: That's a pleasure, I really enjoy this.
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_02: We have more to come from the 2026 Precious Metal Summit here in Beaver Creek, so stay tuned and hit that subscribe button.
• 22:51
  SPEAKER_00: I'm Paul Harris, and this is Kitco Mining.
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_00: Kitco Mining on site coverage of the Precious Metal Summit is presented by New Core Gold.