Latest / Wrongful Conviction / #533 Maggie Freleng with Selma Butler

Transcript

#533 Maggie Freleng with Selma Butler · Wrongful Conviction

0:00
Speaker 1: Hey, y'all, it's Maggie today. I'm sharing an interview I
0:03
Speaker 1: did last year, but we chose to hold off on
0:05
Speaker 1: releasing it. At the time, Selma Butler was working on
0:08
Speaker 1: his post conviction relief, so we didn't want to risk
0:11
Speaker 1: slowing down his pursuit of justice in the courts. But sadly,
0:16
Speaker 1: despite strong evidence of his innocence, Selma's request for post
0:20
Speaker 1: conviction relief has been denied. Now, for the second time,
0:24
Speaker 1: he has to go before the Illinois Appellet Court to
0:26
Speaker 1: continue his fight. Selma's story is a painful reminder of
0:31
Speaker 1: how our justice system can fail and how easily innocent
0:35
Speaker 1: people can pay the price, how easy it is to
0:39
Speaker 1: lock someone up and how hard it is to get
0:42
Speaker 1: them out. I also want you to be the first
0:44
Speaker 1: to hear that next week, I'll be making a very
0:47
Speaker 1: big announcement. My LoVa for Good colleague Gilbert King will
0:51
Speaker 1: be joining me to discuss something I've been working on
0:53
Speaker 1: for two years. It'll be coming out in the Bone
0:56
Speaker 1: Valley Feed very soon, so stay tuned for that. In
1:05
Speaker 1: November of nineteen ninety five, the body of thirty four
1:09
Speaker 1: year old Angela Young was found in her thirteenth floor apartment.
1:13
Speaker 1: She had been stabbed over sixty times. Angela lived in
1:17
Speaker 1: the Chicago Projects in a building that was said to
1:20
Speaker 1: be ruled by the notorious gangster Disciples. Rumor had it
1:24
Speaker 1: that she was holding drugs for someone in the gang,
1:27
Speaker 1: and that she had been killed in a drug related dispute.
1:32
Speaker 1: Seventeen year old Salma Butler, who lived three floors below,
1:35
Speaker 1: saw the police and sirens outside that day.
1:39
Speaker 2: I could remember the day they found her body. It's
1:44
Speaker 2: the project building, so everybody want to know what happened.
1:47
Speaker 2: You know, someone was killed in the building.
1:50
Speaker 1: A few weeks later, Selma was picked up and arrested
1:52
Speaker 1: for Angela's murder based on a statement that police had
1:56
Speaker 1: taken from another teenaged boy during an unrelated interrogation.
2:02
Speaker 2: When we got in the car, the detective reached back
2:04
Speaker 2: and grabbed my neck and he choked me out and
2:07
Speaker 2: like spit on me and told me I did it,
2:09
Speaker 2: andthing like he really spit in my face. My name
2:14
Speaker 2: is Selma Butler. I was wrongfully convicted in nineteen ninety
2:18
Speaker 2: five and I served twenty five years for a crime
2:21
Speaker 2: I didn't.
2:21
Speaker 1: Commit from LoVa for good. This is wrongful conviction with
2:27
Speaker 1: Maggie Freeling today.
2:29
Speaker 2: Selma Butler, Yeah, I grew up in Chicago in the projects,
2:48
Speaker 2: the Robbert Taylor Projects.
2:50
Speaker 1: Selma Butler was born in nineteen sixty eight.
2:54
Speaker 2: My mom's passed away when I was thirteen, and my
2:56
Speaker 2: father was incocrated, basically my entire He went to prison
3:00
Speaker 2: when I was five, so he did the maximum of
3:04
Speaker 2: like thirty.
3:05
Speaker 3: Did you have any kind of relationship with him?
3:08
Speaker 2: Yeah? When I was younger, he used to like for
3:11
Speaker 2: Christmas and toy cars and stuff and write letters and
3:14
Speaker 2: things of that nature.
3:15
Speaker 1: Did Sema had two older sisters. He was closest to
3:21
Speaker 1: his sister, Lakeisha, who was two years older than him.
3:26
Speaker 1: So what was growing up like where you grew up?
3:28
Speaker 3: What did you guys do? What was life like?
3:32
Speaker 2: It was fun, you know if he was in a project,
3:35
Speaker 2: you know, you had all your friends and things like that,
3:37
Speaker 2: so it wouldn't as hardsh as you would think it
3:39
Speaker 2: would be. You know, by was living in the ghetto.
3:42
Speaker 2: You know, it was loving in the household.
3:46
Speaker 1: But gangs and gang violence were all around him. By
3:49
Speaker 1: the time he reached first grade, Selma had already seen
3:52
Speaker 1: his first shooting.
3:54
Speaker 2: Like I seen him they shot the garbage man, like
3:57
Speaker 2: the guy to get the trash. And in that day,
4:00
Speaker 2: I was probably like six or seven somewhere as they
4:03
Speaker 2: shot like five six people out there that day, you know.
4:06
Speaker 2: So and I was on the basketball court and I
4:08
Speaker 2: seen it, you know what I mean. So you see
4:10
Speaker 2: it like every day.
4:13
Speaker 3: Were you scared? Is that scary to grow up like that?
4:16
Speaker 2: Yeah? Yeah, it's real scary, you know, because I have
4:20
Speaker 2: seen guys like come down from school and the guy
4:23
Speaker 2: was like just dead out on the bench in front
4:25
Speaker 2: of the building.
4:26
Speaker 3: Were you worried something could happen to you?
4:28
Speaker 2: Always? Really always, you know, not just me and my sisters,
4:33
Speaker 2: you know, my family, friends, everybody's life. It's just not mine,
4:39
Speaker 2: you know. And then I chose not to be part
4:43
Speaker 2: of a game, even though like they automatically put all
4:46
Speaker 2: us in the gang, right right, you know what I mean.
4:48
Speaker 2: So it don't really matter if you're not in the gang.
4:51
Speaker 2: Is in the game when the police gonna see you
4:53
Speaker 2: in the gang anyway, depending on where you live, you know, sure,
4:57
Speaker 2: you always find yourself at a disadvantage.
4:59
Speaker 4: You know.
5:00
Speaker 2: You know, as kids, you have run ins with the
5:02
Speaker 2: law and stuff like that. Not just like I'm a
5:05
Speaker 2: saying to anything, you know, and I think it's in trouble.
5:07
Speaker 2: Not no murderer, But I got in some trouble.
5:13
Speaker 1: Despite getting into some trouble now and then, Selma resisted
5:16
Speaker 1: the gang life. He had other ambitions, a rite.
5:21
Speaker 2: I'm a writer. I didn't have any really hopes and
5:26
Speaker 2: dreams like that because I really didn't have a good
5:28
Speaker 2: foundation or direction on where I was going in life,
5:31
Speaker 2: you know. I mean, I know, I enjoyed school, so
5:33
Speaker 2: I went to school and things like that. I would
5:36
Speaker 2: have loved to go to college, you know, like and
5:38
Speaker 2: be something in life, you know, but I didn't, unfortunately,
5:43
Speaker 2: get the opportunity to, you know, yeah, figure out like
5:47
Speaker 2: how great I could be out here.
5:48
Speaker 1: You know. When he was thirteen, Selma's mother died suddenly
5:54
Speaker 1: from a brain aneurysm. After that, he went to stay
5:57
Speaker 1: with his aunt and one of the other buildings in
5:59
Speaker 1: the project on the tenth floor of forty three thirty
6:03
Speaker 1: one South Federal. That's where he met Gino Wilson.
6:08
Speaker 2: I love sports. I played basketball, baseball, and I met
6:11
Speaker 2: Geno in a basketball court. He's really good at basketball.
6:15
Speaker 2: So we met each other, Like through sports, what.
6:19
Speaker 1: Do you remember about him being good at basketball. I
6:21
Speaker 1: don't play basketball, So what does that mean now?
6:24
Speaker 2: That dude co that dude is that a dude coat?
6:28
Speaker 5: Sa'ma butler. He lived in a community in Bronsville, Chicago, Illinois,
6:34
Speaker 5: in a public housing authority Robert Taylor Holmes. It was
6:38
Speaker 5: like a known area.
6:39
Speaker 1: This is Ashley Cohen, partner at the Bonjean Law Group.
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Speaker 1: She and Jennifer Bonjean have represented Selma on his post
6:47
Speaker 1: conviction proceedings since twenty sixteen.
6:50
Speaker 5: And there were four or five separate project buildings. Each
6:54
Speaker 5: one of them was associated with a different gang. Basically
6:58
Speaker 5: the building that he was in, the specific one was
7:01
Speaker 5: allegedly run by the gangster Disciples at the time. And
7:04
Speaker 5: if you think about it, it's a huge building. It's
7:07
Speaker 5: a housing project. It's has sixteen floors, there's ten apartments
7:11
Speaker 5: on each floor. It's a massive building.
7:13
Speaker 1: When Selma was seventeen and Gino was fifteen, something happened
7:17
Speaker 1: in that building that would change both of their lives.
7:25
Speaker 5: On November thirteenth, nineteen ninety five, Angela Young is found
7:31
Speaker 5: stabbed to death in her apartment. She has sixty five
7:36
Speaker 5: stab wounds. The Medical Examiner opine that the wounds appeared
7:41
Speaker 5: to have been caused by either a scissor or another
7:44
Speaker 5: instrument with multiple blades.
7:48
Speaker 1: After Angela's body was found, the police were called. The
7:51
Speaker 1: first person to speak with them was a neighbor by
7:54
Speaker 1: the name of Hope Miller.
7:57
Speaker 5: And according to her, she saw an unidentified male come
8:02
Speaker 5: down the stairs and say there's a woman dead in
8:06
Speaker 5: that apartment, and then she goes up with a fella
8:11
Speaker 5: by the name of Andre Parks. They find her, and
8:15
Speaker 5: then the police are called and they examined the scene.
8:19
Speaker 5: The apartment was basically a disaster. A female black wig
8:27
Speaker 5: was found by the front door. She was found in
8:31
Speaker 5: the back bedroom. There's blood on the stove in the
8:35
Speaker 5: front She's sitting in a pool of blood. There's blood
8:38
Speaker 5: on the walls.
8:46
Speaker 2: I can remember the day they found her body because
8:51
Speaker 2: you know, it's the Project building, so everybody want to
8:55
Speaker 2: know what happened. You know, someone's killed in the building,
8:58
Speaker 2: you know, because I could recall like coming out the
9:00
Speaker 2: house and looking off the porch and seeing all the
9:02
Speaker 2: police cars down there and things like that, and I
9:04
Speaker 2: can recall I was I stayed ten o three. Miss
9:07
Speaker 2: Young stayed three floors above being thirteen oh one, everybody
9:11
Speaker 2: knew everybody in up building. That's how I knew Miss Young.
9:13
Speaker 2: I knew her daughters. Her daughter Shamiko was our age
9:18
Speaker 2: and she was pretty. So Gino liked her, so you know,
9:21
Speaker 2: so you know, he like so, yeah, That's how I
9:23
Speaker 2: knew Miss Young. I never had a conversation with Miss Young,
9:27
Speaker 2: but I knew her, like you know, how you doing
9:29
Speaker 2: type of switch, you know.
9:31
Speaker 5: And then the investigation ensues. But as I know from
9:36
Speaker 5: doing wrongful conviction work, I never trust what's in police reports,
9:39
Speaker 5: but it gives a little bit of a framework of
9:41
Speaker 5: what happened. After they find the body, they interview a
9:47
Speaker 5: bunch of witnesses. So Gina Wilson was one of the
9:50
Speaker 5: people that they interviewed. Hoult Miller is one of the
9:53
Speaker 5: people that they interviewed, and Andre Parks is another one
9:56
Speaker 5: that they interviewed. And Gino in his his original interview
10:01
Speaker 5: to the police, if you believe it, he basically says
10:05
Speaker 5: that he went up to the apartment and that he
10:08
Speaker 5: had been dating one of Angela's daughters and was going
10:13
Speaker 5: up to the apartment to go to see his girlfriend
10:17
Speaker 5: and he discovers the body. The police kind of ran
10:20
Speaker 5: with that.
10:22
Speaker 1: S almost says he hadn't been anywhere near the apartment,
10:26
Speaker 1: but somehow, during an entirely separate police interrogation on a
10:30
Speaker 1: different matter, his name got pulled into the case.
10:34
Speaker 5: The Area One detectives claimed that two teenagers, Earl Gilmore,
10:38
Speaker 5: who was fourteen years old at the time but he
10:41
Speaker 5: was in seventh grade or sixth grade, and Antonio Thomas,
10:45
Speaker 5: who is sixteen years old. They were both in custody
10:49
Speaker 5: for unrelated charges. Apparently Earl Gilmour was violating a curfew
10:55
Speaker 5: because you know, you just lock people up for violating
10:57
Speaker 5: their curfew back then. So detectives have two teenagers in
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Speaker 5: custody who they know don't have parents present, are underage,
11:07
Speaker 5: easily coursed, easily manipulated, and basically they tell them somebody died,
11:14
Speaker 5: and you're going to tell us who did it, and
11:16
Speaker 5: you're going to tell us the story of what happened.
11:18
Speaker 5: According to the police, they volunteered that they were present
11:23
Speaker 5: for the murder of young and that they did it
11:26
Speaker 5: with Gina Wilson and Selma Butler. There's this story that
11:31
Speaker 5: Angela basically was holding marijuana in her apartment for Gina
11:36
Speaker 5: Wilson and Selma Butler. And the reason that they killed
11:40
Speaker 5: her was because they discovered that three bags of marijuana
11:44
Speaker 5: was missing from the stash that she was holding. So naturally,
11:48
Speaker 5: three bags of marijuana equates to sixty six stab wounds.
11:51
Speaker 5: And that's how they kind of get their narrative.
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Speaker 3: And did you know, Gilmore didn't know.
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Speaker 2: Gilmore didn't know Antonio Thomas never hung out with him
12:01
Speaker 2: or nothing. He was in the sixth grade. I was
12:03
Speaker 2: a junior, you know, so he was a little kid.
12:06
Speaker 1: On November thirteenth, nineteen ninety five, Earl Gilmore testified before
12:11
Speaker 1: a grand jury that he had seen Selma and Gino
12:14
Speaker 1: punch and stab angela young in her bedroom. Earl was
12:18
Speaker 1: fourteen years old. There was no adult present while he
12:21
Speaker 1: was being questioned by police, and he was not allowed
12:24
Speaker 1: to leave police custody until he had given testimony. A
12:28
Speaker 1: few days later, Selma and Gino were both arrested and
12:32
Speaker 1: charged with first degree murder.
12:38
Speaker 2: I was took it to the police station and they
12:40
Speaker 2: just set me in a room for a long time.
12:42
Speaker 2: When I officer finally came in, I can't recall his
12:44
Speaker 2: name or whatever, he explained why I was there. Saying
12:46
Speaker 2: that my name came up in a murder. They said,
12:49
Speaker 2: I killed my young whatever the case may be like,
12:51
Speaker 2: And I explained to him, like, yo, I could I
12:53
Speaker 2: kill someone. I got on the same clothes I had
12:55
Speaker 2: on yesterday, you know, Like I got on the same clothes,
12:58
Speaker 2: so I would just you know, I couldn't, you know.
13:01
Speaker 2: So I asked for a polygraph test, and they took
13:04
Speaker 2: me to take a polygraph test, and we came back.
13:07
Speaker 2: They never gave me the results. But when we got
13:09
Speaker 2: in the car, the detective reached back and grabbed my
13:12
Speaker 2: neck and he choked me out and like spit on
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Speaker 2: me and told me I did it, and things like
13:16
Speaker 2: he really spit in my face.
13:19
Speaker 3: You were seventeen? Did you have an attorney with you?
13:23
Speaker 2: I did?
13:25
Speaker 3: Did you know you could?
13:27
Speaker 5: Nah?
13:27
Speaker 2: Not really nine?
13:29
Speaker 1: So they didn't tell you you had to write to
13:31
Speaker 1: an attorney.
13:33
Speaker 2: No, not that I can recall. I was sent to
13:37
Speaker 2: the county jail at the time I was seventeen. I
13:40
Speaker 2: was five feet ninety pounds. I mean I was placed
13:43
Speaker 2: in the county jail and that was the head.
14:00
Speaker 1: Thank you for listening to Wrongful Conviction with Maggie Freeling.
14:03
Speaker 1: You can listen to this and all the Lava for
14:05
Speaker 1: Good podcasts one week early and ad free by subscribing
14:09
Speaker 1: to Lava for Good Plus on Apple Podcasts. In June
14:21
Speaker 1: of nineteen ninety eight, Gino Wilson and Selma Butler both
14:25
Speaker 1: went to trial separately before Judge Joseph Urso.
14:29
Speaker 5: Gino goes to trial first, he chooses to have a
14:33
Speaker 5: bench trial before Judge Urso and he's acquitted. A trial
14:40
Speaker 5: Judge Ursau finds him not guilty. So my client then
14:44
Speaker 5: goes to trial.
14:47
Speaker 3: How come you opted for a bench trial?
14:49
Speaker 2: My attorney, he made ee made the suggested because Gino
14:53
Speaker 2: Wilson was acquitted. So he was like, well, if Gino
14:56
Speaker 2: Wilson was acquitted, we have the same opportunities would have
14:59
Speaker 2: bench draped.
15:00
Speaker 1: So when you're at trial, did you think everything was
15:04
Speaker 1: going okay? Did you think it was going to wind
15:06
Speaker 1: up the same as Geno's and you'd be acquitted.
15:09
Speaker 2: Yes, ma'am, I did. Once they realized that he didn't
15:12
Speaker 2: do it, then I figured like, uh, they don't realize
15:15
Speaker 2: I didn't do it as well. That was the case.
15:18
Speaker 5: The trial was appalling, So George Grizzecca represented my client,
15:24
Speaker 5: Sama Butler and Joe mcgattz prosecuted my client. He waves
15:30
Speaker 5: opening arguments. Selma's attorney waves opening arguments, and there was
15:36
Speaker 5: a total of five witnesses. The trial lasted maybe all
15:43
Speaker 5: of forty five minutes. There were a total of thirteen
15:46
Speaker 5: questions asked by Selma's attorney to all of the witnesses.
15:51
Speaker 2: I've never been to trial, you know, so I figured
15:53
Speaker 2: this hat trial. Go somebody, you know, And then I
15:57
Speaker 2: thought he did a good job. I didn't know better.
16:01
Speaker 1: Earl Gilmore was brought in to testify for the prosecution.
16:04
Speaker 2: Like I prayed to God that Gilmore come to court
16:07
Speaker 2: and tell the truth, which he did.
16:10
Speaker 1: So I was hopeful.
16:11
Speaker 2: I was afraid, but I was hopeful as well, you know.
16:14
Speaker 5: Earl Gilmore gets on the stand and then Earl begins
16:18
Speaker 5: his testimony by saying that whoever brought him over to
16:23
Speaker 5: the grand jury basically said go along with everything they
16:26
Speaker 5: tell you, and that's why he did.
16:29
Speaker 1: Remember while he was being held in police custody, Earl
16:33
Speaker 1: testified before the grand jury that Selma and Gino had
16:36
Speaker 1: killed Angela. When he appeared at Thoma's trial two and
16:40
Speaker 1: a half years later, Earl tried his best to walk
16:43
Speaker 1: back his previous testimony.
16:46
Speaker 5: He actually, to his credit Dawes say, he says, when
16:50
Speaker 5: I was taken to the police station, I didn't know
16:52
Speaker 5: what I was taken there for while we got you.
16:55
Speaker 5: Now we're going to charge you with this case if
16:57
Speaker 5: you don't go along with what we tell you.
17:00
Speaker 1: But despite his recantation, the prosecution was still able to
17:04
Speaker 1: admit Earl's initial grand jury statement as evidence.
17:08
Speaker 5: And how they present this is they say, you know,
17:11
Speaker 5: did you take an oath to tell the truth before
17:13
Speaker 5: you testified? And he says yes. And when you testified
17:16
Speaker 5: before the grand jury, you were asked the following questions
17:20
Speaker 5: and did you give the following answers?
17:22
Speaker 3: So they basically put.
17:24
Speaker 5: Him in a scenario where he has to say, yes,
17:27
Speaker 5: I did give those answers. They're putting him in a
17:29
Speaker 5: perjury trap because if he says anything other than that,
17:33
Speaker 5: he can be charged with perjury for lying to the
17:36
Speaker 5: grand jury. Then they continue asking him questions or you
17:40
Speaker 5: asked this question, did you give this answer? And he
17:43
Speaker 5: says yes, I was forced, Yes, I was forced, And
17:45
Speaker 5: that's kind of how the narrative. But they get in
17:48
Speaker 5: the substance of the grand jury testimony, and that's the
17:51
Speaker 5: evidence that was ultimately used to convict Selma.
17:57
Speaker 1: On October twenty eighth, nineteen ninety eight, less than an
18:00
Speaker 1: hour after the trial started, Judge Urso found Selma guilty
18:05
Speaker 1: of first degree murder. He was sentenced to fifty years
18:08
Speaker 1: in prison.
18:10
Speaker 2: I'm being more often in cost ready for a crab.
18:12
Speaker 2: I didn't commit No, I was, I was hurt.
18:19
Speaker 1: I cried, I cried, I cried.
18:20
Speaker 2: I cried every day I cried.
18:25
Speaker 1: Do you think, I guess do you think racism played
18:29
Speaker 1: a part in your case? Just lumping just because you
18:33
Speaker 1: lived in this building, because of your skin color, they
18:36
Speaker 1: said you were a gang member and really kind of
18:38
Speaker 1: just determined your faith that way.
18:41
Speaker 2: Yeah. I say that in the sense of, like I
18:44
Speaker 2: probably know hundreds of people in the same situation that
18:47
Speaker 2: I'm in that's not given the opportunity to talk to you,
18:51
Speaker 2: but half the same exact situation. You know, Like when
18:57
Speaker 2: you think about what Joseph mcgatz did, because he was
19:00
Speaker 2: the state's attorney on this case, and like the little
19:04
Speaker 2: evidence that he used to convict me, how many other
19:07
Speaker 2: people was done like this? You know, African American poor
19:10
Speaker 2: people that couldn't afford attorneys and things like that. You
19:13
Speaker 2: know how many other people was done like.
19:15
Speaker 3: This, you know.
19:16
Speaker 2: So yeah, race played the part, poverty paid the part.
19:40
Speaker 2: You know. I was afraid, and then I was really little,
19:43
Speaker 2: you know, I was a little little. I was only
19:44
Speaker 2: five feet. I was afraid, you know. You know, then
19:48
Speaker 2: you're around all these guys that didn't committed crimes and
19:50
Speaker 2: stuff like that, and murders and things like that, and
19:53
Speaker 2: you know, you not that guy, you know what I mean,
19:56
Speaker 2: I'm not that guy that's here tough and all that.
19:58
Speaker 2: You know. So I was hurt and afraid.
20:04
Speaker 1: Within a year or so, Selma began studying at the
20:07
Speaker 1: prison law library in order to appeal his case. His
20:10
Speaker 1: first appeals in two thousand and two thousand and four
20:14
Speaker 1: were dismissed, but he kept at it and eventually that
20:17
Speaker 1: led him to someone who would become very important in
20:20
Speaker 1: helping him survive life in prison.
20:23
Speaker 2: I'll never forget is the lady named Miss Flowers, and
20:26
Speaker 2: she runs the law library. She seen my name, My
20:30
Speaker 2: name is unique Selma, and she asks me, she said,
20:33
Speaker 2: do you have a sibling by the name of Selma?
20:36
Speaker 2: That I said, my father. She said, you know you
20:38
Speaker 2: work here so the whole time my father worked in
20:42
Speaker 2: the library.
20:44
Speaker 1: So you got to know your dad from inside prison.
20:46
Speaker 1: That is unusual.
20:48
Speaker 2: It was due to the fact I haven't seen him
20:50
Speaker 2: in so long since I was like five. When I
20:54
Speaker 2: met him, I was actually impressed on how intelligent he was,
20:57
Speaker 2: like because he studied law and he didn't help guys
21:00
Speaker 2: get out of prison and things of that nature. So
21:02
Speaker 2: he he's a blessing. He was actually myself made for
21:06
Speaker 2: for quite some time.
21:07
Speaker 4: You know.
21:07
Speaker 3: Wow, wait, so what was that like?
21:10
Speaker 2: It was a blessing due to the fact I asked
21:12
Speaker 2: somebody there that was guiding me and things of that nature.
21:16
Speaker 2: And then you know, so it's a blessing. It was
21:19
Speaker 2: a blase, it was. It was horrible. It was with
21:20
Speaker 2: him still a blessing. You know.
21:22
Speaker 1: Did he give you advice on, you know, how to
21:25
Speaker 1: survive in there or anything.
21:27
Speaker 2: Yeah, in the sense, you know, state of yourself, mind,
21:29
Speaker 2: your business, you know what I mean. You know, go
21:32
Speaker 2: to school. I went to school, made the President's list
21:35
Speaker 2: a couple of times in college, you know, so you know,
21:37
Speaker 2: I mean, you know, no, just put my head down.
21:40
Speaker 2: It sucked that I was there for something I didn't do,
21:42
Speaker 2: but I tried to make the best of it.
21:43
Speaker 3: You know, did he believe you?
21:46
Speaker 2: Yeah, well he do laws. So he read the case
21:49
Speaker 2: and knew that I was innocent, you know what I mean.
21:51
Speaker 1: So, in addition to reconnecting with his father, there was
22:00
Speaker 1: another family member that helped Selma get through prison.
22:04
Speaker 6: I am Linda Butler. I am Selma's niece. I know
22:08
Speaker 6: him all my life, even though it was of course
22:11
Speaker 6: telephonically while he was in prison.
22:14
Speaker 1: Linda is the daughter of Selma's sister, Lakeisha. She was
22:17
Speaker 1: just a baby when he went to prison, but she
22:20
Speaker 1: says he's always been a big part of her life.
22:22
Speaker 1: Lakeisha made sure of that.
22:24
Speaker 6: She talked to all of us about it. She's she's
22:26
Speaker 6: a mother of five, and she just all I remember
22:29
Speaker 6: is her, you know, supporting him, having to put money
22:33
Speaker 6: on the phone, to the point where it groomed us
22:35
Speaker 6: to do the same thing, you know, like this this
22:38
Speaker 6: has become our norm. We got an uncle in jail
22:41
Speaker 6: for some he didn't do like this is our norm.
22:44
Speaker 1: Selma was at the Minard Correctional Center, nearly four hundred
22:48
Speaker 1: miles from Chicago, so throughout the first decade of Linda's life,
22:52
Speaker 1: their relationship was only by phone.
22:56
Speaker 6: We made the best out of it, you know, as
22:58
Speaker 6: far as like when he got but of course it
23:01
Speaker 6: was very limited, you know, like when he called, we'll
23:04
Speaker 6: try to Oh uncle, can you, you know, help me
23:07
Speaker 6: write this? Can you you know? Just I just I
23:11
Speaker 6: think it was hot. I feel like it was heartbreaking.
23:14
Speaker 6: And I remember when I was seven years old. Well,
23:16
Speaker 6: I was turning seven, and he was like, I'm gonna
23:19
Speaker 6: come home for your birthday. I'm coming home for your birthday.
23:21
Speaker 2: She was seven years old. I told her she her
23:23
Speaker 2: birthday was coming, and I told her, well, I'll be.
23:25
Speaker 1: On for your birthday.
23:27
Speaker 3: And I was like, okay, okay.
23:29
Speaker 2: And on the day of her birthday, I called her
23:31
Speaker 2: to wish happy birthday. She told me out lied.
23:32
Speaker 6: To her, and I just remember being heartbroken. I didn't
23:36
Speaker 6: want to talk to him on the phone, and when
23:37
Speaker 6: my mom was like, just talk to your uncle, and
23:40
Speaker 6: he like, he was like, I'm sorry, you know, but
23:43
Speaker 6: I didn't know any better.
23:45
Speaker 1: When Linda was around seven years old, Lakeisha arranged for
23:49
Speaker 1: the family to visit Selma in prison, and Linda couldn't
23:52
Speaker 1: wait to finally meet her uncle in person. She remembers
23:56
Speaker 1: that they had to get up in the middle of
23:57
Speaker 1: the night to catch the bus.
24:00
Speaker 6: And we rode eight hours and they turned us around.
24:06
Speaker 1: Wow.
24:07
Speaker 6: Why because I think the prison just went on lockdown
24:10
Speaker 6: and all that. And mind you, my mom and single mom.
24:13
Speaker 6: So the money that she put into it, she don't
24:15
Speaker 6: get it back. You know.
24:17
Speaker 1: Linda and Selma didn't meet face to face until she
24:20
Speaker 1: was eleven years old.
24:21
Speaker 6: Oh my god, we had so much to talk about.
24:24
Speaker 6: I was able to touch his hand. I was super
24:26
Speaker 6: excited could in my mind, I literally didn't know that
24:30
Speaker 6: he had a face like cause all I know, you know,
24:34
Speaker 6: is him being over the phone. We not have pictures
24:38
Speaker 6: because he was so young when he was away. So
24:41
Speaker 6: when I first saw him, he just had this little
24:42
Speaker 6: smirk on his face, and I'm like, you look like
24:45
Speaker 6: my mama.
24:47
Speaker 1: Over the years, throughout his appeals, Linda and Selma remained close.
24:53
Speaker 2: She sent me money to send letters that I write
24:55
Speaker 2: to different attorneys and stuff like that, because it costs
24:58
Speaker 2: like seven bucks to send out my path. So she
25:01
Speaker 2: would make sure I have money to send to send
25:03
Speaker 2: my mail out and stuff like that. And she was young,
25:06
Speaker 2: she's probably nineteen twenty, you know what I mean. But
25:08
Speaker 2: she's been there on my entire life, you know, I mean.
25:11
Speaker 1: For a time, Linda even worked as a corrections officer.
25:16
Speaker 3: You decided to go into.
25:17
Speaker 1: Corrections, which is interesting because your uncle's in prison.
25:21
Speaker 3: So what prompted that? What motivated thought? I don't know.
25:25
Speaker 6: I just I guess I was. I wanted to know.
25:30
Speaker 6: And when I went into correction, I'm like, Oh my god,
25:33
Speaker 6: this is how my uncle's living. He's caged, this is
25:36
Speaker 6: his life. Them having to go to bed when they're
25:39
Speaker 6: being told to go to bed, the stuff they had
25:41
Speaker 6: to eat, and them not being around their family. It
25:45
Speaker 6: just gave me a whole outlook on life, like, oh
25:49
Speaker 6: my god, in the blink of eye anything, So I
25:52
Speaker 6: got to take life seriously.
26:00
Speaker 1: Thirteen, with the help of a pro bono attorney, Selma
26:03
Speaker 1: filed a second motion for DNA testing, which was granted.
26:08
Speaker 2: I realized DNA was my case couse, miss Young she
26:11
Speaker 2: had skin ut her and nails. So once I realized that,
26:14
Speaker 2: I filed for DNA.
26:15
Speaker 5: Testing, and then the conviction integrity unit decided to undertake
26:21
Speaker 5: an investigation into his claims.
26:23
Speaker 2: Fabio Valatini, he was in chart at the integrity on
26:26
Speaker 2: it at the time, and he said he wanted to
26:28
Speaker 2: redo the DNA test because you wanted to cross his
26:30
Speaker 2: t's and got his eyes. And they gave me a
26:32
Speaker 2: court date of July twenty eighth. So I'm thinking, I'm
26:35
Speaker 2: gonna go home. So I gave away all my items,
26:38
Speaker 2: my food and everything, and my T shirts and stuff.
26:43
Speaker 1: But when Selma got to court that day, no one
26:46
Speaker 1: was there for him, no one from the Conviction Integrity
26:49
Speaker 1: Unit and no one from his attorney's office.
26:52
Speaker 2: And I had to go back to NRC, which is
26:55
Speaker 2: State Ville, and I was crushed. My soul was crushed.
27:01
Speaker 2: So I wrote you to court and they told me
27:04
Speaker 2: my case was off call, which something I never heard of.
27:08
Speaker 2: So I was in court, but I never had a
27:10
Speaker 2: court date for like a year.
27:13
Speaker 1: At that point. Selma wrote to Bonjen Law Group.
27:16
Speaker 5: And we started representing him pro bono in twenty sixteen,
27:20
Speaker 5: and we basically started from the beginning.
27:25
Speaker 1: And that included reinvestigating the DNA evidence, what there was
27:29
Speaker 1: of it.
27:30
Speaker 5: What's so difficult about a case like Selma's is when
27:33
Speaker 5: there's no evidence to begin with, it's really hard to
27:37
Speaker 5: unravel it because there's really no evidence in the first instance.
27:41
Speaker 5: You know, it's not a cut and dry DNA case.
27:44
Speaker 5: So you know the DNA evidence, it excluded selma from
27:50
Speaker 5: two of the bloodstains, but the victim's fingernails had five
27:55
Speaker 5: male profiles and could have been sixty four percent of
27:57
Speaker 5: the population, and he was not excluded from that mixture.
28:02
Speaker 5: And then another stain he was excluded from was the
28:08
Speaker 5: top kitchen gas range and that was a mixture of
28:12
Speaker 5: two male profiles and he was excluded from that. The
28:15
Speaker 5: problem with the DNA and what the CiU ultimately kind
28:19
Speaker 5: of hung their hat on is like, well, he's not excluded,
28:23
Speaker 5: so we can't say it's exonerating, right.
28:27
Speaker 1: Ashley's team also wanted to explore the idea of alternate suspects.
28:32
Speaker 5: The three offenders who we believe are the ones who
28:35
Speaker 5: actually did it. One of them could not be excluded
28:39
Speaker 5: from the fingernails, and two of them were not excluded
28:44
Speaker 5: from a stobe sample and a hall sample.
28:47
Speaker 1: Those three individuals were Maurice Pearson, Ricky Buckley, and Andre Parks,
28:53
Speaker 1: all known members of the gangster Disciples.
28:56
Speaker 5: I mean, had the attorney at the time done any
28:59
Speaker 5: investigating at all, he would have come up with what
29:02
Speaker 5: we came up with. Twenty five years later, which was
29:05
Speaker 5: that everybody in the community knew that Angela was holding
29:11
Speaker 5: marijuana for Ruler Reese and dre who were Maurice Pearson,
29:15
Speaker 5: Ricky Buckley and andrake Parks, and that there is evidence
29:20
Speaker 5: to suggest that they are the true perpetrators.
29:24
Speaker 1: When their investigator spoke to Angela Young's daughter, Shamika, the
29:27
Speaker 1: team learned even more.
29:30
Speaker 5: Jamika told our investigator that young people used to sell marijuana,
29:35
Speaker 5: but Ruler Ricky ran the big operation out of the building.
29:39
Speaker 5: She also said that a woman and a man outside
29:41
Speaker 5: her building one day after the murder told her that
29:43
Speaker 5: Reese had killed her mom. Ruler, Reese and Dre went
29:47
Speaker 5: and watched some of the trial. It just seemed like
29:50
Speaker 5: they were keeping their presence known to make sure that
29:53
Speaker 5: nobody snitched. And that's the kind of community that they
29:56
Speaker 5: lived in. When we got the file, there was a
30:00
Speaker 5: report in there that said that someone called the police
30:03
Speaker 5: to report that Maurice Pearson was responsible for Young's murder.
30:06
Speaker 5: There's a report that shows he was picked up, there
30:08
Speaker 5: was no questioning, and he was ultimately released. That report
30:14
Speaker 5: was not in the public defenders fat and as the
30:16
Speaker 5: appellate court even said in their decision. The Pearson report
30:20
Speaker 5: gives the distinct impression that more information was not available
30:23
Speaker 5: because the police did not want to find it. And
30:26
Speaker 5: we've seen this in other cases. It wasn't uncommon for
30:29
Speaker 5: there to be some sort of relationship with police officers,
30:34
Speaker 5: like you scratch my back, eye, scratch yours. You know,
30:36
Speaker 5: whoever had the connection to the police officers were like,
30:40
Speaker 5: you're going to cover me on this, and we're going
30:42
Speaker 5: to frame these other kids because I'm not going to
30:44
Speaker 5: prison for this. And that's just how it shook out.
30:54
Speaker 1: In twenty eighteen, the Bonjin Group filed a post conviction
30:57
Speaker 1: petition based on newly discovered evidence of innocence and ineffective
31:02
Speaker 1: assistance of counsel. In March of twenty twenty two, Jennifer
31:07
Speaker 1: Bonjing argued Selma's case before the Appellate Court. Justice is
31:11
Speaker 1: Nathaniel House, Cynthia Cobbs, and Terrence Lanvin, who is.
31:16
Speaker 2: The attorney who's going to make a presentation for the
31:18
Speaker 2: appellant today.
31:19
Speaker 4: Good morning, your honor, Jennifer Bonjing on behalf.
31:21
Speaker 3: Of mister Butler.
31:23
Speaker 5: Thanks, I mean, I just listened to the oral argument again.
31:25
Speaker 5: The Appellate Corps, especially Justice Labin was appalled by this trial.
31:32
Speaker 7: Yeah, and trying to compare with this is one of
31:36
Speaker 7: the more unusual cases that I've ever dealt with in
31:38
Speaker 7: my thirteen years in the appellate court. Here, but we
31:41
Speaker 7: have two defendants co defendants who were tried in bench
31:45
Speaker 7: trials in front of the same judge. The first guy
31:48
Speaker 7: gets off, the second guy gets fifty years.
31:51
Speaker 1: Jennifer Bonjing went on to explain that much of the
31:54
Speaker 1: state's case against Selma hinged on the coorst grand jury
31:58
Speaker 1: testimony of fourteen years old Earl Gilmore and.
32:03
Speaker 7: At the trial of mister Butler, his public defender, who
32:07
Speaker 7: by all accounts was a competent attorney, asked all of
32:11
Speaker 7: four questions of the police officer who allegedly took this statement,
32:15
Speaker 7: a statement that was never memorialized, wasn't signed off on,
32:19
Speaker 7: wasn't written, wasn't recorded.
32:21
Speaker 4: Nothing that's right, you're right, your honor, and there was
32:26
Speaker 4: just no effort to challenge it. And again it is
32:30
Speaker 4: mind boggling to me. I can only assume that what
32:33
Speaker 4: happened here is that he assumed and not guilty. But
32:36
Speaker 4: you can't make those types of assumptions.
32:38
Speaker 7: Why the state, I don't know what the state was
32:40
Speaker 7: assuming either, because both parties waived opening statement. I've never
32:44
Speaker 7: seen a record like this wave opening statement. First witnesses,
32:48
Speaker 7: no questions, no questions, no questions, then four questions. Then
32:51
Speaker 7: you know, didn't even need a lunch break, and the
32:54
Speaker 7: case is over. I mean, this entire case is justice delayed?
32:58
Speaker 4: Yes, so I side threw my hands up.
33:14
Speaker 1: The Illinois Pellet Court ordered the case to Cook County
33:17
Speaker 1: Circuit Court for an evidentiary hearing. In January of twenty
33:21
Speaker 1: twenty three, Selma was discharged from prison after receiving day
33:26
Speaker 1: for day credit for good behavior. He had served twenty
33:30
Speaker 1: five years of his fifty year sentence.
33:34
Speaker 6: Oh my gosh, you come home during a pandemic, like,
33:37
Speaker 6: what are we gonna do? So I had looked up
33:39
Speaker 6: some things to do and we ended up doing a
33:41
Speaker 6: boat ride. Just met him and a couple of my friends.
33:44
Speaker 6: We finally able to really have some type of memory,
33:47
Speaker 6: and it, oh my gosh, it was so much fun.
33:50
Speaker 6: Even when he's on a boat ride, everybody's dancing. He
33:53
Speaker 6: he just bombed his head, just chilling.
33:55
Speaker 2: You know. Once I got off parole and I was
33:58
Speaker 2: able to travel, I went to my me. Wow, I
34:01
Speaker 2: rode the jet ski. I got on a parasale. Wow,
34:07
Speaker 2: I got the helicopter. Was able to helicopter Beyonce house,
34:12
Speaker 2: Bill Gates house.
34:14
Speaker 1: You know what I mean.
34:14
Speaker 2: You know, was able to look at their backyards.
34:17
Speaker 1: In they pools.
34:18
Speaker 2: I was able to do, you know, some things that
34:21
Speaker 2: I'm so you know, I know there's the guys were
34:24
Speaker 2: things that get better with you know, I've been having
34:27
Speaker 2: some fun.
34:28
Speaker 1: You know, Selma is keeping busy with a cause that
34:33
Speaker 1: is close to his heart.
34:35
Speaker 2: I work with the outlet. There's a mentor program. I
34:38
Speaker 2: get paid to mentor fatherless other age boys from the
34:41
Speaker 2: age of eight to twenty two. You know. I work
34:44
Speaker 2: with the parole officers, you know, going to the schools
34:47
Speaker 2: to speak, teaching positive things about gods, stuff like that.
34:50
Speaker 2: And then after I leave that job, I go to
34:54
Speaker 2: another job with maintenance supply and I clean buildings and stuff,
34:58
Speaker 2: you know, like janitorial work. So that's what I'm doing now.
35:06
Speaker 1: And there's been another significant change in Selma's life since
35:10
Speaker 1: he got out of prison.
35:11
Speaker 2: A friend of mine told me about a Dayton site.
35:14
Speaker 2: So I got on the Dayton site and we had
35:16
Speaker 2: changed not much, and we started speaking and things of
35:18
Speaker 2: that nature.
35:20
Speaker 3: And what's her name?
35:21
Speaker 2: That name is Jamila. She's intelligent, you know. Uh, she's
35:26
Speaker 2: s thoughtful, she's beautiful. The nonprofit organization that I actually
35:31
Speaker 2: work for, which is the outlet, she the intake coordinator there,
35:34
Speaker 2: so she's responsible for all the boys that come into
35:37
Speaker 2: the program just to see someone that gives back and
35:42
Speaker 2: thoughtful and things of that nature. You know, you like
35:45
Speaker 2: what I like, so I like you.
35:48
Speaker 1: Selma and Jamala got married in twenty twenty two. But
35:52
Speaker 1: even though he served his full sentence, Selma is still
35:56
Speaker 1: not fully exonerated in the eyes of the law.
36:00
Speaker 3: He's trying to make a life for himself.
36:01
Speaker 5: He's trying to live and he can't because you know,
36:06
Speaker 5: he has this looming over him. You know a lot
36:08
Speaker 5: of people would be like, oh, you're out anyway, what's
36:10
Speaker 5: the big deal, you know, but it's not about that
36:12
Speaker 5: for him. He's innocent, and it is a complete travesty
36:17
Speaker 5: of justice, even justice. Lavin said. The entire case is
36:22
Speaker 5: justice delayed.
36:24
Speaker 2: I have to just be hopeful and just lean on God,
36:28
Speaker 2: you know, and just get out and do the best
36:31
Speaker 2: I can. You know, give more to amenity than it
36:33
Speaker 2: didn't gave.
36:34
Speaker 1: To me, you know, and Soma says he's not the
36:40
Speaker 1: only one who is mistreated by the justice system. He
36:43
Speaker 1: still thinks about Angela Young and her two daughters, Shamikha
36:48
Speaker 1: and Nicole.
36:50
Speaker 2: They didn't probably investigate her mother's death. I wasn't only wrong,
36:55
Speaker 2: Miss Young was wrong because they didn't properly investigate her death.
36:59
Speaker 2: They didn't care about a death. They didn't care about
37:01
Speaker 2: my wrongful resident. You know what I mean. So at
37:03
Speaker 2: some point black deaths don't matter, Black lives don't matter.
37:07
Speaker 2: We don't matter. You know. Everybody that was a partitive
37:12
Speaker 2: was mistreated. So God's will I do right? I do
37:17
Speaker 2: right by life.
37:31
Speaker 1: Thank you for listening to Wrongful Conviction with Maggie Freelink.
37:34
Speaker 1: Please support your local innocence organizations and go to the
37:37
Speaker 1: links in our bio to see how you can help.
37:39
Speaker 1: I'd like to thank our executive producers Jason Flamm, Jeff Kempler,
37:43
Speaker 1: and Kevin Wurtis, as well as senior producer Annie Chelsea,
37:47
Speaker 1: producer Kathleen Fink, story editor Hannah Bial and researcher Shelby Sorels.
37:53
Speaker 1: The show is engineered by Jackie Pauley, with additional production
37:56
Speaker 1: by Jeff Cliburn and Connor Hall. The music in this
37:59
Speaker 1: production is by three time OSCAR nominated composer Jay Ralph.
38:04
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38:14
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